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Society Builders with your host, Duane Varan.
Welcome to another exciting episode of Society Builders, and thanks
for joining the conversation for Social Transformation.
In our last two episodes, we explored Abdul-Baha's engagement with the discourse
of His day around governance reform in Iran, and we discovered how the
early Persian Baha'i community engaged with this issue, helping give rise to
Iran's first democratic institutions.
But as the Reform movement became increasingly political and divisive,
Abdul-Baha advised the Baha'i community to disengage with this
issue and shift their focus from political reform to social reform.
And the Baha'i community did exactly that.
They disengaged with the political reform movement almost entirely, and instead,
focused their energy on addressing Iran's
social woes. And foremost amongst these was the need for better
healthcare and for the provision of education for Iran's young. Today,
and over the course of the next two episodes, we're going to explore the
amazing achievements of these Baha'is in one of these domains, in the
promulgation of what would become a network of over 60 schools spread
out across the entire Iranian nation.
It's a truly remarkable story and may well represent our best
example of society building yet.
We're gonna do this across two episodes.
Today's episode provides the background and context and
summarizes the story of the rise of this network of over 60 schools.
And in our next episode, we'll explore the impact this all had,
and discuss how and why it all came to a screeching halt in 1934.
Now I'm honored once again to have as my guest today eminent Baha'i historian,.
Dr. Moojan Momen .
Dr. Momen
is a true authority on the history of the early Iranian believers.
He's written numerous books, book chapters, and articles on this early
period, and he's the recipient of numerous awards celebrating his scholarship.
So today we feature an interview with
dr. Moojan Momen on the transformation
of education in Iran
Moojan jan -
welcome once again to Society Builders.
Momen: Well, thank you.
Thank you for inviting me.
It's a great pleasure to be back.
Varan: Now Moojan Jan,
today we're gonna talk about educational reform in Iran specifically, we're talking
about the network of schools, which Baha'is and Iran opened in the early part of
the 20th century, acting on Abdul Baha's counsel, you know, creating a network of
over 60 schools all across the country.
I mean, it's such a remarkable story.
I.
Let's start today's journey by helping paint a picture of what the education
system in Iran was like prior to the opening of the Baha'i schools there.
You know, I've read one statistic that claims that the literacy rate
in Iran as late as 1950 was 13.
Percent, I mean, 13%!
It's almost like the entire society was entirely illiterate.
And you know, one must assume that almost all of that 13% was men and
not women, and most of that population was probably in Tehran rather than
much of the rest of the country,
so leaving most of the rest of the country completely illiterate.
And and a good portion of that 13% were probably even Baha'i.
So the literacy rate outside the Baha'i community must have been even worse.
I mean, these are incredibly bad statistics.
Why was literacy so incredibly neglected in Iran at the time?
Momen: I think this wasn't particular to Iran.
In almost every country in the world, if you go back 200 years, then the
only people who were literate in, in a traditional society were the
religious leaders who needed to read
the Holy Books and court officials such as secretaries and treasurers who would've
needed to keep records and perhaps people like wholesale merchants who were sort
of needing to write to other merchants in other cities and receive letters.
So there were very few people in a traditional society
who needed to be literate.
So... And certainly no one out in the countryside or, or, and you have to
remember, in Iran, up until even the 1930s and 40s, a very large proportion of
the population were actually nomadic.
They didn't even, they, they wandered the
countryside, with their flocks.
So they, and, and the people in the villages
None of them needed literacy and, and it was a luxury, and it
was a luxury that required money.
You had to pay a teacher.
So there was not a great deal of incentive to, to become literate in such a society.
So therefore, in Iran, as in many countries, If, if you are living in a
traditional society, you don't need to be literate and it's a luxury to be literate.
And Iran was in that state and, and continued to be in that state,
and the government didn't make efforts to build schools and,
and to... I'm talking about,
now in the 1920s and 30s. There was a government initiative to build
schools, but this really only, it didn't reach out to the majority of
the population who lived in small villages, or, as I say, were nomadic.
It, it, it only really took effect in the larger towns and cities.
Varan: So what was the education system like in Iran before Baha'is
began opening our schools there?
Momen: The traditional education in Iran was the, what was called the Maktab,
which was, you could translate that as a traditional school if you like.
And there you would have a, a teacher who was very often a mullah, a
religious, a cleric who would teach the children basically to read the Quran.
But because in Iran, The Quran is in Arabic.
They didn't understand what they were reading.
They could just read the words.
So they, and they memorized part or all of the Quran.
So, so they were, they were taught elementary reading and
writing, and they couldn't, would
be taught to memorize Persian poetry, for example.
But what you would have is just the teacher sitting on the ground in the
middle of a circle of children of all different ages and abilities,
in a single class.
There'd be a lot of learning whereby they just recited after the teacher
words and, and try to commit these words to memory.
There was a lot of corporal punishment handed out.
You could expect to be beaten once or twice a day, at the very least, as a
child, and as I say, because they were all different ages and all different
abilities in a single class, it was very difficult for any one child to
actually make progress because either the lesson was above you or it was
below you in in its level very often.
So that that's what went on.
And they, it would be a small group of children and maybe 8
or 10, it, it would, they would have to pay them all less.
So it would only be the more affluent children who, who could even gain
this much learning and that they would pay, pay them all less to come along
and be taught these few sort of very elementary skills of, of reading the
reading and writing Persian, and
memorizing some poetry and so on.
Varan:And how were the Baha'i schools that opened different from these traditional,
Maktabs, these traditional schools in Iran?
Momen: Well, the Baha'i schools were based on a, what you might call a modern curriculum.
So, so they would, they were based on a, a school structure where you, you
differentiated the class according to age or ability.
So you had people of roughly the same age and ability in one class.
In each of your classes, you had several classes, and you were
teaching modern subjects, history, geography, mathematics,
science, these sorts of subjects.
This sort of education had been going on in Iran before
the Baha'i schools started up.
The American missionaries who came to Iran at the beginning of the
19th Centuries did set up a number of schools, but the, these American
missionaries were directing themselves only to other Christians in Iran.
Iran had populations of Christians up in the northwest of the country.
There were
whole villages who are Christians.
These were what, what are called Astorian or Assyrian Christians and
elsewhere there were, in some of the cities like Isfahan, there was a,
a whole quarter that was Armenians, for example, Armenian Christians and the
missionaries were trying to convert.
These people who were already Christians from being whatever sect of Christianity
they were to being Protestant Christians, Presbyterian, mainly Christians.
So those American schools were being run on modern lines, but they were
only for a very small minute
percentage of the population.
And then from about 1900 onwards, these modern secular reformers started
talking about the need to set up modern schools in the larger cities.
And they started also doing that, actually setting up these schools.
And, and the Baha'is were then at the forefront of this movement
to set up modern schools in the towns and cities of, of Iran.
But, but as I say, there, there were also secular
reformers setting up schools in some of the, in, in some of the cities and
and basing this on modern curriculum and modern methods of pedagogy and
modern structure of the school as a whole in terms of the classes and so on.
Varan: How did the first of these schools get set up?
The, the Baha'is schools, as I said, that the Baha'is had been talking about
the need for education for a time, and, and then once they saw an opportunity
to get this going after the, the Constitutional Revolution gave them
more freedom to, to do these sorts of things, because prior to that time, if
they tried to do anything, the religious leaders would've immediately quashed it.
But after the Constitutional Revolution with
other secular reformers starting to talk about setting up schools.
Then the Baha'is saw it as an opportunity for them to also start to set up schools.
So in Tehran, in particular, the Baha'i community got together
and decided to set up
first the boys' school and immediately afterwards, a girls' school.
I mean, this was a, a huge problem because you had to find teachers who
could teach these modern subjects.
There weren't a great number of such people around.
And, and to, to find them.
you, so you had to find them.
You had to get buildings, you had to get finance.
Even such a simple thing as the, the furniture for a school was a problem
because, local carpenters had no concept of desks and tables and so on.
So they didn't know how, they had to sort of be
presented with pictures from America - from schools in Europe and America and say,
'can you build us something like this'?
And, and they would try and do that.
So everything was a problem.
It was a major sort of, obstacle to, to overcome.
But, but they, you know, the obstacles were dealt with and, and overcome
and, and these schools were set up.
Varan: You, you had mentioned earlier that you know that the Baha'is in Tehran set up a
boys school and then immediately after set up a girls's school, and that really
was a common feature of these schools.
I mean, in a society where women had no opportunities, particularly no
opportunities for education, suddenly these Baha'is schools are, are, are
popping up for boys and for girls.
And this was something that Abdul-Baha really insisted on.
Maybe you could tell us a little bit about how that process unfolded.
Momen: Well, obviously the Baha'is were living in a culture
and a society that thought that education for girls was pointless.
That their only task in life was to become mothers and they
didn't need to be educated to do that.
And so there, there was no need for educating girls.
And this wasn't
particular to Iran.
This was a widespread view in the 19th century, even in Britain.
There were people who, who thought that way, but certainly in Iran,
that was the predominant view and the Baha'is knew as part of their teachings
that they were supposed to be advancing the role of women in society.
And, and so, you know, in the back of their minds there was this idea that,
well, we had to start educating girls.
So, They started to think about, well, we need to make a, to do a, a high school,
for girls as well as boys.
And Abdul-Baha
was constantly sort of encouraging that, and, and in a few places, for
example, where they set up a boys' school and hadn't set up a girls'
school, Abdul-Baha would write to that
town and say, 'well congratulations for setting up a boys' school,
now, set up a girls' school as well.'
He would sort of instruct them to do that, but I think, you know,
gradually the Baha'is got the message and they would always set up a girls'
school in parallel with the boys' school.
In some small villages,
they even had mixed co-educational schools, just because they
weren't a large number of children.
And that was the only practical way of doing it.
But that was, that was a rarity because the society demanded a
separate education for girls and boys.
Varan: How did the network spread?
So effectively, how did, how did it grow from that first school in Tehran
to, you know, this network of over 60 schools all over the country?
Even, even in very small towns and villages?
Momen: Yeah, so the modernist reformers were setting up schools in the larger towns
and cities, but the Baha'is went much further and started to set up schools,
even in small towns and villages.
No one thought that this was even a viable prospect.
For example, in one small town in the south near Shiraz, where
the Baha'is started to set up a school.
The governor called one of the leading Baha'is to Shiraz and said to him: 'we can't
even get a modern school set up in Shiraz,
how do you expect to set up a school in your small town?'
It was just sort of inconceivable to them that this should happen. But the Baha'is,
because they had it as part of their teachings because Abdul-Baha was
encouraging them, because they saw the Baha'is in the larger towns and cities,
setting up schools and educating their children think, started thinking, 'well,
we want this for our community as well.'
And you know, wherever, in whatever town or village there was a large enough
community, they started to think about, well, can we get a school going here?
And again, they, they were faced with exactly the same
problems, finance buildings.
Furniture, finding a teacher who would be prepared to come from
the big city to the small village and, uh, teach the children there.
All of these things they had to overcome, but, but they had the drive to do it.
And in, in many, even small villages, it was done.
And, and the high schools were opened and they were very often the only school,
well, in fact, in almost every case where, where we're talking about a village, that
that was the only school in the village.
So even the
inhabitants of the village that weren't Baha'is would often would often
send their children to the school because they recognized the importance
of education for their children.
Let's put it another way.
Those people in the village who recognize the importance of education
for their children had no choice but to send their children to the
Baha'is school, and so they did.
And very often these were the
leading members of society in the village or the, or the small town.
So the Baha'i School would get prestige from the fact that the children of the
leading citizens of the village were, were coming to, to the Baha'i school and, yes.
So, so that, that's how the network spread.
It was basically Baha'is in each locality deciding 'well, other towns are doing this,
other Baha'i communities are doing this.
We, we need to do this as well for our children.'
Varan: So these schools were open to members of, of wider society as well.
How much did people from wider society take that up?
I mean, you can see a little bit of a dilemma.
On the one hand, you know, you have this society which sees Baha's as outcasts.
And on the other hand, you know, we, we have this opportunity that we
provide the community for education.
What was it like
what, what was that like for people from wider society in terms of them, you know,
the, the opportunity was there for them?
Certainly.
How, how much would people take that out?
Momen: Well, I think for those people who recognized that education was good for
their children, they, they were prepared to overcome their prejudices, in order
for their children to get an education.
If, if the Baha'is were the only school in town then, then those people who
recognized that this was important for their children, just got
over their prejudices and sent their children to the school.
And, and even in some of the large towns where there were other
schools, the Baha'i schools were very often recognized as being the,
the best school in, in the town.
And so even there, people who were not Baha'is were sending their children
to the Baha'i School in preference to say the government school or a
school opened by a private individual because it was the best school
in the town for their children.
And this whole process was being driven really by the
interest Abdul-Baha took in the school.
His constant guidance to the community.
His always trying to, to raise the standard of the Baha'i community and raise
the standards to these schools so that they did become the best in each town.
For example, in Tehran, he actually got some American.
Baha'is to come to Tehran and become teachers in the school so
as to, to get the best education possible going on in those schools.
Ah, yes.
As I say, Abdul-Baha was constantly interested.
He gave advice on the curriculum and other, other matters, and.
He also removed some of the obstacles for the Baha'is.
For example, in one place there was a, a local official who was very
much prejudiced against the Baha'is and closed down a Baha'is school.
And Abdul-Baha immediately wrote to the Prime Minister of the time, who was broadly
sympathetic to the Baha'is and Abdul-Baha said to him, 'you speak about trying to
bring progress to Iran, but you, you know, you are allowing this to happen
in, in this town that a local official is closing down the schools, which is
the main instrument for bringing progress to Iran.'
And so the Prime Minister wrote and ordered that the school be reopened.
And all of these things gave prestige to the Baha'i community, made it easier
for those people who are not Baha'is to send their children to the school.
Yeah, so, so the Baha'i schools
became very prestigious,
they, they became somewhere where you wanted to send your children and many,
many very prominent people did send their children to the Baha'i schools.
Once Reza Shah, the first Shah of the Pahlavi dynasty came to power, in
the early years of his reign,
when the Baha'i schools were still open, there were
very prominent minister sending their children to the Baha'i school.
Even the Shah himself sent some of his children to the Baha'i school, because
it was the best education in in town.
Varan: And of course, the contribution of the Baha'i community to this discourse transcended
just the idea of the modern curriculum.
It was also new ideas around how to discipline children, you know, a
change, a contrast in terms of concepts of, of how to discipline children.
Could you tell us a little bit about that dialog at the time, that discourse at the time.
Momen: Yes, there were, there were lots of ways that the Baha'i
schools influence society, and this, this actually applies to the other secular
schools as well, and the government schools, that there were modern ideas
about sport and physical education, for example, that, that were being spread.
But the Baha'i schools were particular in leading the way to gradually
eliminating corporal punishment,
physical discipline.
Previously, this had been universal in the schools in Iran. Even when the
schools transitioned from the, from the traditional Maktabs, the traditional
schools to modern schools, there was still a lot of beating going on of children.
It was considered
the right way to educate children.
And that wasn't just in Iran, that that was universal in in Europe and, and North
America as well. And the Baha'i schools,
again, this was a gradual process,
I'm not saying that as soon as the Baha'i school was built, the corporal punishment,
physical punishment was eliminated, but
over the years, an understanding grew in the Baha'i community, helped
on by Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi, that this was inappropriate way of
treating children and, and therefore that, that it should be eliminated.
And gradually, it was eliminated from the Baha'i schools and many of the Baha'i
schools led the way in that, in Iran and in particular, the Hand of the Cause,
Ali Akbar Foroutan, forbade
all corporal punishment in the Tarbiyat school during the time that he
was the headmaster of that school.
And in later years he went on the radio in, in Iran and gave talks
which were focused on family life.
But as part of their talking about family life, he strongly discouraged
hitting children at home as well.
Varan: So thus far we've explored the background and history associated with the rise
of this network of over 60 schools, spread right throughout the Iranian
nation, providing many towns and villages with literally their only schools.
We've seen how the Baha'i schools provided what was just about the only schooling
available in the Iranian nation for girls.
And we've discovered how Baha'i schools eventually challenged
the harsh traditional practices of disciplining school children.
But what impact did all of this have for both Baha'is and for wider Iranian society?
And how did this amazing network suddenly come to a screeching halt in 1934?
These are themes we explore in our next episode, part two of my interview with
dr. Momen on educational reform in Iran.
So a special thank you to Moojan for today's episode and a special thank you
to you, the audience for joining us today.
I look forward to joining you again when we continue our discussion with
Dr. Moojan Momen.
That's next time on Society Builders.
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