Heidi [00:00:00]:

In this episode, I'm chatting with Mari Medina, a freelance knitwear designer who in the span of three years, moved out of New York City after she had lived and worked there for 14 years and she had a baby. These were two things that she never imagined being possible when she worked for a fashion brand in house. When Mari was living in New York City, she didn't think that she could be a freelance fashion designer because she didn't have all the skills or all the experience. Her fashion industry job had been for a big corporation in design, and she was terrified. She didn't have all the answers about sourcing and production and the entire development process. Turns out Mari didn't need all of the skills because after getting her first few clients, she realized that it was okay to get started. Even though she didn't know everything, mari was able to learn as she went. And beyond that, she realized that a lot of her self doubt was a strong voice in her head saying she wasn't capable. She realized that she knew a lot more than she thought, which I would argue is the case for most of us. Mari talks us through the strategies that she's used to build and grow her career as a freelance fashion designer. She's only working half time because she takes care of her two year old daughter, but she is still averaging $5,000 a month. If you do the math, that is $60,000 a year working half time. Mari has full time childcare lined up starting next month, and I know she's going to hit six figures soon. You're going to love this episode. Let's get to Mari. Welcome, welcome. I feel like this conversation is long overdue. We'll get into that. But first, please introduce yourself to everybody. Let us know who you are and what you do in fashion.

Mari [00:01:31]:

Yeah, I am a knitwear designer. My little studio is called Mm Knitwear and I've been working for the past three years for over, I think I've serviced more than eleven clients at this point. And I do, from the design aspect, sourcing the material, the manufacturing for mostly slow fashion brands. So it's like a lot of low MOQ natural yarns. And I've worked from machine knitting to hand knitting crochet and connecting my clients to artisans in different parts of the world.

Heidi [00:02:15]:

Amazing. Okay, I'm going to drop a quote that you said to me a long time ago that has really stuck with me, and I'd love to just kind of start the conversation there. Many years ago, I think right after you had gotten your freelancing career kick started. I don't remember the timing of when you had joined Fast and all that stuff happened, but you were gaining some traction and getting some clients and doing work. And you said to me, I thought freelancing was only for these expert rock stars of the fashion world. And you didn't feel like you were? I don't remember exactly. I just remember you said expert rock stars, and you didn't feel like you were there yet, but then you were. So can you take us way back to that beginning time?

Mari [00:03:02]:

Yeah. I think when you work in a corporate setting, you have a certain title and a certain role, and it's good, but I think it takes years to get to a point where you feel like, oh, well, now that I am not an assistant designer, now I'm an associate designer. And you identify with that role. Right. And it kind of keeps you it's hard to learn. I mean, you're thrown into the thing, into the fire. You learn, but it depends on the atmosphere, if it's a slower pace or fast pace. So I didn't have where I was in my career. I had been years working I think I worked in companies for, like, seven years. So it was a yeah, and this was in was in New York, and I had great mentors and coworkers. But you only have access to a certain part of the process. Right. And I think I wanted to learn more, something like simple as specs. That was in my goals you have for the year. But we were so busy with things that I never was able to be like, how do I learn this? And I felt like I was trying to, but because I was slower in learning that aspect, or you don't have the confidence to just kind of throw yourself in there. At least I didn't have it. So I was more like, okay, I can do this little part really well, but I don't have contacts. I don't have just kind of the resources, the network to take a brand from the beginning to the end, because I don't think I had even done it myself in a work setting. So that's why I thought if you've been, for example, a director in a company, you've seen the whole process. You've had the experience, so then you have the credibility for yourself and for your clients to be like, I've done all of this for X amount of years, and I've learned because a lot of this can't really like, you don't really learn it in school, so it's kind of you just are learning in the process, like grading and things like that. One of my mentors said, grading is an art, so I was like, Well, I'm not going to learn it. It was like, mostly things like that. If I haven't seen it, per se, how am I going to throw myself into a situation where I'm going to tell people that I can do this?

Heidi [00:05:39]:

Your role during those seven years working in the industry was more the design component, is that right?

Mari [00:05:43]:

Exactly. And I work with technical designers. I work production, I work merchandising. And I wasn't even in a lot of these meetings because I was mostly in the production part of it, not production, but producing design. While my boss was in the meeting for marketing or production or pricing, I was in there like cranking sketches, cranking tech packs, so we can keep the process moving along.

Heidi [00:06:09]:

Yeah. So that's where you were at in your head, despite having seven years of experience, which is a good bit.

Mari [00:06:17]:

Yeah.

Heidi [00:06:19]:

So then what was the moment that you were like, wait, maybe I can do this? Do you remember?

Mari [00:06:25]:

It happened gradually, and sometimes I still doubt it. It was mostly like the first client that I got didn't need those services for me. That's like the simple part. For example, when I first started working with them, they already had the yarn that they wanted to use. They already had the factory that they were using, and they mostly just needed me for the part that I already knew how to do. So design and the tech pack and for the measurements that I wasn't super familiar with, I just kind of used my own specs, like with sweaters I already had and sweaters. I also printed out a lot of the specs that I had done at work. And then you have the graded spec, and then you have the picture of the fitting. And I started making a binder for myself for these text packs and measurements. I still use this binder. Now. This is like fat binder that I have.

Heidi [00:07:22]:

Look at that resource.

Mari [00:07:24]:

Yeah. All my clients from my own clients and just kind of making myself a library. From that time, I only had a few of them, and now I have a bunch. Yeah, that's kind of how I started. And then it was slow. I had people that had done the second client had done already a little bit of research, and she's like, I already have this factory in New York that I want to work with. I was like, oh, cool. Yeah, I've kind of heard of them, seen them on Instagram. Then I started using that factory. And then you just kind of start little by little, getting to learn and finding the places where you can find those people and resources and the materials and the yarn. I asked a former coworker if she knew Italian yarn wherever, or a specific material. I think I was asking, like, oh, look at all these people. She gave me a few emails, and it was just kind of like a starting point, and then I build it up from there.

Heidi [00:08:29]:

But the point here, I think, of this story, which is great, is that you don't have to have all the skills to start. You can start with one component, right? And then, like you said, oh, they already had this. And then you start learning almost through not almost, but actually through your clients resources. You start learning right now. Okay. They have this factory in New York. You're like, Great, let's work with them. And then you learn how they work the pros and cons, and you just.

Mari [00:08:52]:

Grows it just grows from there. And now I've learned, I'm like everyone's just figuring it know, from just kind of other professionals that I've been following recently, just kind of listening to podcasts and getting inspired that way. Everyone's just figuring it out. And I am too. I can't say that I know the perfect amount of everything at this point, but I think your mind sometimes needs evidence. So I feel like little by little, I built myself evidence of, like, I've been able to do this. So you keep gaining that confidence to.

Heidi [00:09:36]:

Sort of validate your knowledge and your ability to do the thing.

Mari [00:09:41]:

Yeah, exactly.

Heidi [00:09:42]:

That's interesting. I've never heard anybody put it as evidence, but you're totally right. That's exactly what it is.

Mari [00:09:47]:

Yeah. And I think we try to find evidence from the opposite way all the time. I haven't been able to do this because I never did it in my company. That's evidence.

Heidi [00:10:02]:

Evidence against being able to do it right, versus evidence that supports you. Totally. Yes. And I would argue that women are like 100 times worse at that than men, typically.

Mari [00:10:13]:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I've had a friend told me men apply to jobs that they're underqualified all the time, like, whatever.

Heidi [00:10:24]:

Yeah. There's something in our DNA, our hormonal balance or something that we don't typically make those leaps like men does.

Mari [00:10:33]:

Exactly.

Heidi [00:10:34]:

You're conscious of it, though, now, which is great. And I think even as valuable as being conscious of the negative evidence, you're constantly not just you, but like, we right. As people are constantly putting on ourselves of like, oh, you can't do it because right. You're always going to make an excuse why you can't.

Mari [00:10:50]:

Right, exactly. So I think it's just for me, it's been a gradual process. Like, I'm in a drastically different place where I was three years ago when I started this. And when I started this, I was saying a lot like, well, I won't pitch because we're in the middle of a pandemic. And then the next year was, I won't pitch because I'm pregnant and I have no idea what this is going to look like. Yeah. There's always an excuse. And I haven't been the type of person that has pitched a lot. A lot of my clients kind of have found me, but now I'm in the place where I'm like, I don't pitch because I don't have time. But it's something that you kind of have to. It's like all these different places that I've been throughout these years. It's cool to kind of think back to it yeah.

Heidi [00:11:43]:

And see the evolution and the progress that you've made. For sure. Yeah, I forgot about that. But that's right. You told me once, you said I spent, I think it was almost a year doing research on brands that I could pitch to.

Mari [00:11:59]:

Yeah. Because I was still working my full time job and I was very slow, I remember. And I think I listened to in a podcast that you said to look at trade shows and I was, wow, like, I've never even thought about this. These are small brands and being in New York, I was always familiar with big brands, but I didn't know they're like all the two tiers. Like there's a bunch of them.

Heidi [00:12:30]:

A billion?

Mari [00:12:30]:

Yeah, a billion of them all over the world.

Heidi [00:12:34]:

Yeah.

Mari [00:12:35]:

So then I went into those rabbit holes because I was bored at work and looking at clothes does look like you're doing work, because we were just really slow. And so I went to those rabbit holes and I was starting to write down the name of the founders and the name of the company, the website, trying to find emails. So I was kind of writing all of that down, but I didn't even have a portfolio or a website or anything like that. I was just kind of doing research to see, is this even possible? How many people are there out there?

Heidi [00:13:10]:

So that took a long you spent a lot of time doing that.

Mari [00:13:13]:

I spent a long time doing that. I still have that list. I have a bunch of brands, a bunch of brands in there. I reached out to a few of them, but I haven't actually reached out to all of them or anything like that. I don't know. I think it was, again, trying to find that evidence of like, there are a lot of small brands from real people that are not corporations because I worked in a big corporation, right. So if I were to try to find a founder for the corporation that I was working at, I would have found someone that would have not even have access to design.

Heidi [00:13:52]:

No. Yeah. You can't even relate to that person.

Mari [00:13:55]:

Yeah, exactly. So it was just really interesting for me to start learning about that because I think that's what inspired me and people that I was like, oh, this is the story of this person, how they founded their company and stuff. So I think it was just like getting inspired, I guess, while I didn't have the courage to start anything, I.

Heidi [00:14:15]:

Think it's a really interesting point to bring up because a lot of people working in fashion, obviously are in New York City or La or London, like these big fashion hubs. Right. And it's very easy to sort of think of the industry as like that, these huge corporations, right, but arguably there's just as much, if not more happening, like two tiers down. Like you said, it's just these small independent people and they're making really amazing stuff and they need help too. Right? Yeah. Because it's not accessible to do. Like the true remote freelancing thing for these big brands.

Mari [00:14:49]:

It's not they're not looking for that.

Heidi [00:14:52]:

I've heard some random fluke stories, but typically it's not. So just even being inspired and understanding and knowing that all those brands are out there is huge.

Mari [00:15:01]:

You also don't want to do that because there's going to be a bunch of people in the office and you're going to be like the OD person out. Unless that whole corporation works like remote, which doesn't actually exist. Fashion. You don't want to be the OD person out in a computer in a fitting or something like that.

Heidi [00:15:22]:

Totally. Yeah. Okay, so how did you get your first few clients?

Mari [00:15:28]:

So when I was doing the market research, I had a friend of a friend that had told me, hey, I have a friend that has a brand, a knitwear brand. And she told me this probably like a year before or two before I started freelancing. But I was like, oh, why would I even talk to this person? They sound really cool, but what do I even have to offer? Kind of mentality of interesting. I should have just said, you're cool, let's be friends. I don't know, I have this mentality of, why would I even be friends with this person? I don't have anything to talk to her about or whatever negative evidence is that negative things just throw yourself out there. Just be friends with people. It doesn't matter. Everyone's just always thinking about themselves anyway. Totally. So when I thought about that so I reached out to her again and she connected us because I wanted to do market research, basically. And because of that, she's like, oh, actually this is a very interesting time because we are looking to work with someone that is their European brand. So they had worked with people there in their country, but they hadn't worked with anyone that was specialized in knitwear. And they thought it was so interesting that I was and I had that experience. So they're like, oh, can you do an audit? And I think I did that for free. And they thought it was really cool the way that I noticed fit issues and stitch issues and things like the stitch is weighing on this side of the body, and that's why it looks like that. They were like, wow, we noticed those things too, but we didn't really know quite how to fix them. So yeah, I mean, that's how I started with my first client, and I just did one sweater, one design for them, and then a few months later they were like, let's do more. And that was all in 2020. And then my second client found me through the web. I have no idea. I don't know if it was LinkedIn. I don't know. I don't think it was LinkedIn. She found me. She said it was really hard to find people like network designers.

Heidi [00:17:38]:

Yeah.

Mari [00:17:38]:

And my website was clear and she had already seen the work that I had launched with that one brand. And so then I felt comfortable even taking on a new client. And that's how it started. And yeah, from sharing on Instagram, someone that I had worked with, I was their intern, and then she started her own brand, and then she asked me if I was doing knits. So that was like, my third client. It has been more like organic rather than pitching. I did pitch one time for a brand in La. But because they were a little bit bigger, I was kind of that person in the computer and the fitting.

Heidi [00:18:23]:

Okay. This is a first hand experience. Okay. Because I was like, that's an interesting perspective that I wouldn't have really thought about. But I guess you're right. Okay. You were that person. Tell me about that.

Mari [00:18:37]:

Yeah, they're still a small brand and they wanted to make knits, but they also didn't have the they only had one designer and one founder and a few other people, and they had, like, a store, super cute brand. And I had bought stuff myself, so I was like, hey, you're super cool. Let's work together. They're like, yeah, we're actually kind of like looking. We have this idea, but we didn't know we kind of contacted this factory, but I don't know how to work this. And so that's where I stepped in and helped them. And it didn't end up working out, but it was a good experience regardless. We were able to produce knits here in the US. Which was really cool experience, but I was that person in the like, we had a fitting and I think there were, like, four people.

Heidi [00:19:26]:

And did you go out to La for.

Mari [00:19:31]:

They'Re not they weren't big enough to even fly me in like that or I never even saw the samples in person.

Heidi [00:19:40]:

So this was all remote in, like, zoom or something?

Mari [00:19:43]:

It was all remote, but I think the fact that they were a little bit bigger made me feel like I was a bit out of place because I wasn't there.

Heidi [00:19:55]:

You were the only person not there.

Mari [00:19:57]:

I was the only person not there. And I'm sure it could be fine, actually. I'm sure it's fine, but in my experience, I was just kind of like I don't know. Yeah, maybe it was the day or whatever, and there were some miscommunication. I'm sure there were so many things that I could have done better. And at the end of that project, I actually did meet with the founder and was like, hey, give me some feedback because we were going to start another season. And she was like, we just hired a designer that has both experiences, so, like, woven, and so we won't need you anymore. And I just met up with her for some feedback and stuff. And I think we had some issues with the production aspect of it getting really delayed. Factories, you need to be really on top of them. And I still haven't learned that. Now I know, I'm like, you need to email them every few days, follow up. Some factories, you don't need to do that, but if you're working with local factories, you kind of really need to. And I had not learned that part of the process. And some things fell through the crack. And yeah, I think they did have a production person. So I think I assumed it was a lot of assuming from my part, too. It's like, oh, she's going to handle that part. And she was not handling it, and she didn't understand a lot of the technicalities. To do a PO for sweaters is different. To do a PO for wovens, I like to always add the yarn and specify the stock color. And you have to put the sizing, and you do that for both. But they didn't even have that concept. So the factory was confused, production person was confused. And I thought that wasn't my job. So I think I was also a little bit hands off in that side. I was like, I never said that. This is never on my invoice. This is never on my proposal. It was also that part of, I never said that I was an expert in this. This was never part of my invoice or proposal. Yet they still were expecting me to do it. And it's just like a lot of learning from my side communication. Yeah. Where does it end? There needs to be an end to the project. And I had not learned that yet.

Heidi [00:22:31]:

So did that inspire changes going forward of how you put together your proposals or your contracts or your invoices of being like, there's a hard stop, sort of like, once we pass first proto or, I don't know, like, what right, what does that look like? How'd you resolve that?

Mari [00:22:48]:

Yeah, I started adding production to my invoices, and I saw kind of how this person worked. And I was like, if I think I can do a better job than her, then I can actually handle this in a way where I was like, I didn't even know what charts people were using for production. And I think it was like even just seeing their process of what chart they were using and how I would make it better. For sweaters, I just made my own chart for POS and for yarn orders. I was already doing the yarn orders part of it, but kind of adding all of that into the templates that I was using and knowing how to kind of calculate the yarn and stuff like that from one of the other factories. Some factories do certain parts of the process and some don't. So then some factories want nothing to do with the material order, right? But they'll tell you how to do it. So they're like, hey, for yarn, it's like about weight. So this sweater weight this much. So add 20% to the yarn order. So then I would do it. There's so many details that explaining how I ended up learning. All of it feels blurry right now.

Heidi [00:24:08]:

Totally. But the point I mean, I think the bigger picture point here is you did a couple of things really great. Like, you had that project with that client in La. And it went okay, but like you said, some things fell through the crack. And you learned that because you went to the founder and you said, I'd love to get some feedback. Where could I do better? And most people and freelancers, but I think most people in general don't proactively ask for feedback after or even during a project. Right. And so you learned that then it was able to allow you to say, okay, great. Now I need to adjust this going forward in my invoicing. I need to add for this. And also it instigated you to learn that whole part of the process through various channels. Right. Like, through maybe what you had seen in that interaction with that client or what you're getting from factories and stuff. Again, you were proactive to get the feedback, then you implemented a system for you to learn that going forward. You didn't have to start with that skill.

Mari [00:25:03]:

Yeah. And it also helped me learn about the big need for my clients, like what they even if they don't express it, some people try to kind of take the invoice and they're like, this is too much, so let me take this part and this part and this part. There's some parts that you really can't take off. So I think that's kind of what I learned from it. Even though production is not my favorite part of the process, it's a huge need for my clients, for my clients right now. And I don't do production for all my clients. They don't need it. But when they do need it, they really need it, most of the time included. And now I've done two things where I haven't recent proposals that I haven't included it, but it's very clear. It's like development, and it ends when the final sample is approved.

Heidi [00:25:56]:

Yeah.

Mari [00:25:56]:

And it's done. And I just understand it so much more now and know when things are going to just stop. And I'm not afraid of saying, okay, from now on, it's on you and all of this. Make sure you have sometimes for export and all of that. Make sure you know how to handle those things, because that's not part of my expertise.

Heidi [00:26:22]:

Yeah. And I think a lot of that, it's like I compare so many things in freelancing to learning how to sew. You can read all the books and you can watch all the YouTube videos on how to manage the project and how to do the pricing and what have you. But at the end of the day, some parts of it, you're just like, okay, this fabric needs a different thread, needs a different tension. You just have to start putting stuff through the machine. Right. And learn it firsthand because there's so many different nuances, like you said, for your clients, who are a very specific type of client. Right. They're the small knits. I think a lot of it's done like stateside or local production, what have you. They have very different problems and needs than a more established brand versus a big corporation. Right. So understanding the nuances, which you kind of learn by doing getting in there, getting your hands wet and then asking for the feedback. Right. So you can keep learning.

Mari [00:27:22]:

Yeah. No, it's such a process. I have loved it, and I love having my own business. I've learned to love it. I think sometimes I wish that I was still in a more established place. Why is that? I can't remember why, but I remember it's such a huge learning curve.

Heidi [00:27:48]:

So I think you just go through.

Mari [00:27:50]:

Really high, high and really low. Totally. Just like even conversation, waiting for a conversation about an invoice and like, oh my gosh, what is my client going to say? And then nothing happens. There's not a big deal. And sure, I'll take that, whatever. But it's just like all those things. And I think now I'm trying to say it as like, there's constant learning and growing, and that's very exciting. And I would rather be there than in a place where I have to wait for someone to give me a promotion or wait for someone to kind of almost get a permission from someone to like, hey, I want to learn this. I feel like having your own business, the sky is the limit. You kind of have control over. If I want more clients, I'm going to hustle. Maybe I'll work at night, or if I don't have time during the day to get more clients to make my website more clear. There's so many things that you have control of, and I think that's very exciting to be able to do that.

Heidi [00:28:58]:

So can we talk about that a little bit more? Because a lot's happened on your journey to Freelancing. So you started like you were still in your job, researching all these brands on the side. Fast forward three years. You now live in Nashville, Tennessee. You have a baby. Oh, gosh, she's what?

Mari [00:29:20]:

Two?

Heidi [00:29:20]:

She's a two. Okay. Almost two collie right. Okay. If we rewind back, like, you and I had a chat or an email once, and I think this is before you were pregnant, and you were like, I'm thinking about I think I had just given birth or something, right? And you were like, we're going to get pregnant and we're figuring this out. And you were like, I cannot imagine thinking about getting pregnant and having a baby if I was still like, in that corporate full time environment. The freedom and the control you had over your life and your working hours and stuff as a freelancer felt so much better going into parenthood. Motherhood like that I'd love for you to talk a little bit about, like I mean, that's a lot. That's a big journey. Three years, right? Like, you live in a very non fashion hub now and a toddler.

Mari [00:30:15]:

I've went through a vortex the past three years. Multiple vortexes. Different life.

Heidi [00:30:23]:

Yeah.

Mari [00:30:25]:

Oh, what a journey. Yeah. I still can't imagine actually being pregnant in that scenario. For my first trimester, I feel like I slept all the way through March 2021, and in between, I would get up and do the work that I needed to do. Five minutes before well, maybe 15 minutes before this call, I put my toddler for a nap. I laid with her in bed so she could fall asleep.

Heidi [00:30:50]:

Yeah.

Mari [00:30:50]:

It's just such a different life, and I couldn't have imagined it. I think I was wishing for something like this, but I didn't know how to do it. I always think about certain thoughts that I had before, and I'm like, I have that now. When I graduated from college and stuff and I started working, it took me a long time to adjust to going to the same place every day. I didn't like that part of working and just having kind of the same schedule. When you're in school, Wednesdays look a certain way. You get excited about Wednesdays or Fridays or days have different feels, and I love that about it. And then having that kind of very set routine where you do the same thing every day took me, I could say, maybe like, a year to get used to. Wow. So I don't know. That's just kind of the way that I've been. I've always been in the past. I always liked on Fridays, I get a dessert from this place, or, like, Friday. I don't know. I've always had this thing so fast forward to now I have that I'm trying to find. You just have different rhythms. Like, I have a rhythm. I have more of a schedule. I have a baby now. But it's just such a different life that I just couldn't have even imagined even moving out of New York. I didn't want to move out of New York, but I did have times in the past where I felt trapped.

Heidi [00:32:22]:

There because yeah, you've commented that to me before.

Mari [00:32:25]:

Yeah. Moving out of New York this time felt different because it felt a lot more like, um, which a lot of people are moving out of big cities. But back then, I forgot that back then I was like, I'm stuck, um, because I need a job. And I love actually what I do. The concept of what I do, I love. But would I move out to California? That California is too far from the Caribbean, which where my family is at.

Heidi [00:32:52]:

Yeah. You're from Puerto Rico? I don't think we've brought that up, but yeah, you're from Puerto Rico. A lot of your family's still there. Yeah.

Mari [00:32:57]:

Yeah, so my family's there. So, New York, Puerto Rico. Very connected.

Heidi [00:33:01]:

Yeah.

Mari [00:33:02]:

Super easy to get there. So moving to the West Coast was never an option for me. But that was like another it's the same thing. You're kind of stuck in between two. You kind of are going there just yeah, it's going to be different than New York. But it's kind of not having that option, I guess. Not having the option to choose a place because of the type of work that you do where if you're a nurse, you can work anywhere. Anywhere.

Heidi [00:33:28]:

Or if you're a freelancer you can yeah, exactly.

Mari [00:33:31]:

Throw that out.

Heidi [00:33:32]:

Come on. A nurse that was out of left field. But totally, I get there's jobs everywhere. Yeah, fashion is not that way.

Mari [00:33:39]:

I think I was trying to doing an analogy of where my mind was back then.

Heidi [00:33:46]:

Okay.

Mari [00:33:47]:

When you were like I didn't know anything about you still felt stuck in house.

Heidi [00:33:50]:

Okay.

Mari [00:33:51]:

How I was? Yeah. Stuck. But I think now the huge amount of learning that I've done in my freelance career, my business even now, I call it a lot more my business than I do call myself a freelancer because I think it gives me more power seeing itself as a business. There's a lot less kind of emotion attached to that. But it's more like businesses grow and businesses do good as well. But business doesn't just include me, but I can hire other freelancers to work with me. And that's definitely my vision to have a mini network studio. And I've already started working with two freelancers from Fast and that has been really awesome.

Heidi [00:34:43]:

Is it Kate Knight?

Mari [00:34:44]:

Well, no, but yes, but she's I.

Heidi [00:34:47]:

Mean, I know you guys have become.

Mari [00:34:49]:

And you know, that's also a part of it. It's kind of having friends that are in your field and we share so many resources and it's really good to be in a place where you share ideas and there's always kind of growth and I'm excited to see where even I'll be in a year, I'll be in two years. So I think that's so exciting. Even moving here. We moved to Nashville and we have an office right now where we can work. So it feels more like everything starts to feel a little bit more official in my mind. So this is real. It also moving here also was like, okay, going back to a full time job is not an option. I have to really make this work. So there's a part of that too, but a little pressure is always good. A little pressure? Yeah.

Heidi [00:35:46]:

I mean, you haven't needed to go back for three years, so it's going to be fine. You're smart enough to keep figuring this out, keep making it work. Yeah. You mentioned earlier before we hit record that Collie, your two year old daughter is you got a babysitter right now. Some hours you're working about half capacity like half time, part time, and then in about a month, she's going into a more structured official daycare so you'll have More time to build Your business out more and create that studio.

Mari [00:36:18]:

I'm so excited. And I think this month I'm gearing up to be like, okay, what are my packages? I'm changing from kind of like the invoice structure that I used to do, that I used to itemize everything to package pricing. And I think that's going to help a lot just because it doesn't give the client the option to be like, let me take this one little thing out.

Heidi [00:36:45]:

I don't want to pay $1,000 for this.

Mari [00:36:49]:

Exactly.

Heidi [00:36:50]:

You order the whole entree, you don't get to take out the side salad.

Mari [00:36:56]:

Exactly. Do not take out the Cilantro.

Heidi [00:37:00]:

It's not chipotle here. We're not building our own burrito.

Mari [00:37:04]:

Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of how I've been working in the past, and some People are like, well, this Part Is already done, so Can I reduce it? You Think it's done, but it's not. And I've also had situations where like, well, maybe like this and that, and I was like, sure, I'll do that. And then it's not taking the same amount of effort and time. Yeah, I'm not going to just tell them, like, this is 100, this is 500 anymore, and It's more like a package pricing because I've been spending a lot of time on proposals, and that's been taking a chunk of my time. I had three potential clients that I'm working with right now, and it took me like an hour to do each proposal because I was going in depth and I was explaining everything. It was so customized, and I just cannot do that. I say that I don't have time to promote my business on Instagram or social media, but I'm spending all this time and doing this anyway. I just changed it just literally last week, and it Was a lot easier to just like, okay, this is this.

Heidi [00:38:24]:

That's exciting to go to a packet. I mean, I think it's definitely something more advanced. It'd be really hard to start there. Right. You just don't understand all the nuances. But it's very exciting because I know a lot of our students have packaged type of systems and it's great. It's definitely something you can grow into. So that's exciting. Congratulations. That's a big move to make.

Mari [00:38:46]:

And I want to go into a little bit of detail. We have a little bit of time, but it's like totally. I'm doing it's. Also tracking My time, which I couldn't never figure out before. I'm using toggle. And I have it by the brand, by the project and season. And that Has Helped Me to kind of create a bit of an average of how long things are Taking me and also timing myself. I need To Work faster because I already have my skill set and I just need to work faster, get less distracted and be a lot more efficient with my time package pricing. That's what I'm doing, and I think I want to in the fall is around the time where a lot of people find me, or it's when I start the next fall season or start thinking about the next fall season. And that's the biggest season for me, I think, from between now and I think in August, I'll be setting myself up in a very big way to get some new clients, and I'll have, like, almost 50% more capacity to work.

Heidi [00:39:47]:

With Colleen Daycare.

Mari [00:39:48]:

Yeah, with Colleen Daycare. And obviously she's going to get sick, so I'm going to have to have some flexibility.

Heidi [00:39:54]:

You're already anticipating. It happens.

Mari [00:40:00]:

I know. So it's great that I have that flexibility to do that. And so I'm really excited to see even myself in six months. Where am I going to be in six months? This has been the biggest year so far financially for me.

Heidi [00:40:19]:

Amazing.

Mari [00:40:20]:

Congratulations. Yeah. I'm so excited. I hit five K months because I also divided my invoices. It's project based, but it's divided into months just because it's so much easier for me to invoice every month instead of like, well, I finished the design portion. I'll invoice you for that. And then I'll go into this portion. And with factories having different time frames, I don't know when they're going to ship the proto sample, so I don't want to charge for that. I don't have control over that. So I need to set myself up for success, for money. I need to take care of myself. So even though if the factory takes three months instead of two a month, I have those monthly payments set up. So that's how I've been able to see, okay, hey, I'm growing this month, and that keeps me motivated.

Heidi [00:41:14]:

That's amazing. That's working half time. Yes. When you have the physical capacity, because you're not being a mom 20 hours a week, during those working hours, you'll hit six figures next year.

Mari [00:41:27]:

I hope so.

Heidi [00:41:27]:

That's yes, you will, girl. You totally will. I know you will. Being a mom is a lot without full time care, and once you get that physical time and that mental time back minus a few sick days, it's going to be fine.

Mari [00:41:44]:

Oh, yeah. I'm so happy. Even the mental state that I'm in this year versus last year, I think it was really hard. I mean, being a mom is hard in the first year, and I want everyone that has been freelancing because I've seen some people in the chat in the group where, how do you do this as a mom? And the first year was really hard. I'm not the kind of person I know some people can, but I wasn't the kind of person that was able to work in between nap time because my kid never slept well.

Heidi [00:42:18]:

But she's sleeping well now because you just put her down and okay, we're good. We got over that hump.

Mari [00:42:23]:

Yeah, exactly. She's getting older. It's easier.

Heidi [00:42:28]:

A lot easier.

Mari [00:42:29]:

Yeah. So I think I was exhausted. So your brain is not in the place. My brain was mush for the first six months, and that becomes very stressful. And I thought I wasn't going to be able to be at that full capacity that I'm going into next month. I didn't know that I was going to be able to get there last year. If you would have talked to me, like a year ago, I was like, I'm going to be part time until my kid is 18 years old. That's what I thought.

Heidi [00:43:00]:

You're just like in such a moment. You can't see anything past that.

Mari [00:43:04]:

You just can't. I couldn't 18. Yeah. At the first time, mom is like, I mean, this is the moment and this is going to be forever.

Heidi [00:43:16]:

Oh, my God. When did you guys move to Nashville? So we're recording right now. It's July 2023.

Mari [00:43:23]:

We moved here the last week of December. Last year.

Heidi [00:43:26]:

Okay.

Mari [00:43:27]:

Seven months.

Heidi [00:43:29]:

Okay, got you.

Mari [00:43:30]:

Yeah.

Heidi [00:43:32]:

So you were getting out of the first year of motherhood fog. You move now, you actually have a proper office and a space to have your knit books and yarn books and stuff.

Mari [00:43:43]:

That has been also life changing. Just like being able to lock myself in here, that was never an option. We had a one bedroom apartment in New York, and my husband also works from home, so it was like his desk on one side of the living room and my desk on another side of the living room. And New York apartments are yeah.

Heidi [00:44:05]:

Like, how are you even doing call? Like you couldn't do calls at the same time, probably, right?

Mari [00:44:09]:

We couldn't. And if Gotti was like, napping, then she would be in the bedroom, the only one bedroom he was going to call. And I was like, okay, cool. I'll take the call from the bathroom. The bathroom.

Heidi [00:44:21]:

I'll just go in this corner where all you can see is like a little white wall.

Mari [00:44:25]:

Exactly.

Heidi [00:44:26]:

But really I'm sitting on the toilet.

Mari [00:44:28]:

Yes. So hopefully you can't hear the echo.

Heidi [00:44:34]:

Oh, my God. That's amazing.

Mari [00:44:35]:

So it was rough, but I'm grateful where we're at right now. And it has given me a lot more mental stability and getting excited for what's next and stuff. Because to be honest, I wasn't there last year. I was just kind of barely surviving.

Heidi [00:44:56]:

Yeah. I mean, it's a lot like having a kid. The pandemic that alone is like yes, exactly.

Mari [00:45:07]:

And also another thing that I was struggling a lot with was the price of childcare. And still the price of childcare is a lot in all of the US. But in New York specifically, it was this kind of weird rabbit hole where I was, where it's like, if I want to work, I need childcare, but I can't afford childcare. Right now because I'm not working a lot and I don't know how much I'm going to make next month. And it was this constant just, oh my God, it was really stressful and committing. Finding a childcare that was able to do part time was really hard to do. And just because we couldn't afford a full time childcare situation. And then having family help you. But then we're all in the same environment, so we're all in the little one bedroom apartment trying to work, trying.

Heidi [00:45:56]:

To have family help with someone watching the baby there. Oh, that's a lot.

Mari [00:46:01]:

Yeah.

Heidi [00:46:02]:

You're like, I'm going to go to a coffee shop.

Mari [00:46:05]:

Yeah. Or you need to take a walk.

Heidi [00:46:08]:

Right now, get in the stroller, pack up the cheers and go.

Mari [00:46:13]:

Please leave. Dealing with communication with family for those leveling those expectations, when you have someone from your family taking care of your child too, because it's like sometimes you can't force your family member to on a schedule, the kind of schedule that you want for your kid. You have to be kind of communicating all that learning that communication. And last year was a hot mess, a challenge.

Heidi [00:46:46]:

Yeah, you mentioned that before we hit record that you're really excited, like, you have the babysitter now, but getting into a more structured daycare, we're like, these are the hours. This is what I'm paying for this. I'm committed. It actually can feel a lot better than the reliance on family. Like yes. While family is like family and you're not paying, you can't set that same precedent of like, I need you here at 1230 and I need you to be out by 1245 or whatever. Right? Yeah. You don't get that same control. Exactly.

Mari [00:47:13]:

So I'm excited. I am up leveling my capacity and learning a lot, and I'm just excited to have more of that time to even connect with other freelancers. Totally. One quick thing. I was just listening to the call that you had this month.

Heidi [00:47:34]:

Okay. The coaching call. Yeah.

Mari [00:47:36]:

You just said the kind of other design agencies and how to pitch to them and connect with them. That blew my mind. That literally blew my mind.

Heidi [00:47:46]:

Oh, yeah, totally.

Mari [00:47:49]:

Since I've listened to podcasts about fashion, so many of these agencies have they're kind of a lot of startup accelerator, stuff like that. And I've been listening to these people and I'm like, but they don't do knitwear, so why would I even talk to them? But that's why I need to talk to them. Because their clients may want knitwear and they don't.

Heidi [00:48:10]:

It's such a specialty.

Mari [00:48:11]:

Exactly. So I'm like, why didn't I do this three years ago?

Heidi [00:48:17]:

And dear listener, we'll link to that episode in the show Notes. Well, by the time you hear this, it will have published. It should be don't quote me on this, but it should be episode 177 by the time it goes live. If nothing gets shifted in the schedule of this strategy of working with agencies that Mari's talking about.

Mari [00:48:36]:

Yes, exactly.

Heidi [00:48:37]:

So you can go listen to episode 177 and we'll link it in the notes. Yeah, right.

Mari [00:48:41]:

Yes.

Heidi [00:48:43]:

I was blown when she told me. She goes, Freelancers never reach out to me. I was like, I know.

Mari [00:48:54]:

Okay.

Heidi [00:48:54]:

She's trying to find people who are really specialized in their skill, which also, dear listener, specialized in your skill key. Like, that's what you said. You said something earlier. I meant to call it out and I didn't. But, like, being niche, that's how people are finding you because you are so crazy niche. If you're just like a general fashion designer, it's impossible for people to find you. But when you get really hyper specific in your services and your area and your category and all that stuff, that's where the magic.

Mari [00:49:20]:

Also, I want people to also know that it's actually very hard to find people. It's just hard to find people. Like good people.

Heidi [00:49:31]:

Like good freelancers.

Mari [00:49:32]:

Good freelancers and just like what you're looking for, it's very hard to find. And I think people don't know that. All my clients say it to me. It's so hard to find. Can you please do this sweatshirt for me? I was like, I don't do sweatshirts. It's just so much easier. I'm going to have to find someone.

Heidi [00:49:56]:

It's hard to find good people. It totally is. I can sympathize with that. Both from hiring freelance fashion designers as well as hiring freelancers in general is hard. And I think people really discount that. They're like, oh, that negative. What do you call it? Evidence. Evidence comes in, you're like, they don't need me. They have people in house. They know how to do everything. I don't know how to do anything. Right. That voice, and then boom, you're not doing it. Because that voice is so loud at the root of all of I mean, I'm glad we did this call now because I've thought about you last year when we were recording. I was like, we got to get Mari, and I think we chatted, and you're like, I think I'm moving to Tennessee or Nashville. And I was like, okay, we'll connect later. But it feels like this is a really great time for the call to catch up and hear all the amazing stuff you're up to. I'm so excited to get updated on the next six to twelve months from you as well. You better keep me in the loop. So where can everybody find you to learn more about what you do or maybe hire you if they have some need?

Mari [00:51:05]:

Yes, please. On Instagram. I am mmknitwear. Studio. And that's my website as well.

Heidi [00:51:14]:

Mmitwear Studio.

Mari [00:51:16]:

And then should be easy to find me there, like DM or my email is in my website if you need to reach out as well. And on my Instagram, all right, we'll.

Heidi [00:51:27]:

Link to all that in the show. Notes. I would love to end with the question I ask everybody at the end. I think you know what it is.

Mari [00:51:33]:

Yes.

Heidi [00:51:34]:

What is one thing people never ask you about being a freelancer that you wish they would?

Mari [00:51:39]:

I love this question. I've always thought about what I would answer, but about being a freelancer, I think it's just like the same with fashion. Everything that takes into it, all the different things that I do during the day to either get set up as a business or my actual job, everything that it takes into. I think if you are talking to someone a party and they have no idea, I think they don't even know what to ask because they have no idea. So I think it's more like what is your, I guess, day to day look like? Or what does it take to even make one of the products that you're making? What does it take to make a sweater? And that in itself is just such a huge process.

Heidi [00:52:26]:

I didn't know the weight thing. I've never done knits or like sweater knits. Right. So I didn't know the weight thing with the yarn and the POS and stuff. We could have taken this conversation a whole different direction and nerded out on that. But that wasn't really the point of our chat. But yeah, it's fascinating, right? When you hear all these little nuances, you're like, oh wait, but that makes a lot of sense, right?

Mari [00:52:47]:

Yeah. Sweaters are like they're measured differently, they're priced differently, the material is boxed in a different way. Way. So all about it is very different.

Heidi [00:52:57]:

I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and experience with everyone and congratulations on your amazing success.

Mari [00:53:03]:

Going to keep thank you.

Heidi [00:53:05]:

Keep going. I just know it. Thank you.