WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:01:16.052 --> 00:01:18.192 Matt: welcome back to the WP minute. 00:01:19.432 --> 00:01:21.212 Nyasha: Hey Matt, thank you for having me. 00:01:21.252 --> 00:01:26.422 Matt: It's been a short, nine ish months, but we were on the podcast back in 00:01:26.432 --> 00:01:32.442 September, we chatted all about what you were up to back then, WordPress developer, 00:01:32.542 --> 00:01:37.222 course creator, podcasters still back then, but now you've launched a new 00:01:37.232 --> 00:01:39.632 podcast called the hopeful workspace. 00:01:39.652 --> 00:01:43.272 By the way, love the, love the cover art, love the podcast, cover art. 00:01:43.932 --> 00:01:44.592 Nyasha: Thank you. 00:01:45.242 --> 00:01:46.572 Matt: the hopeful workspace. 00:01:47.522 --> 00:01:49.242 We're going to link everything up in the show notes. 00:01:49.242 --> 00:01:52.362 So if you want to listen to the podcast, you just click the 00:01:52.362 --> 00:01:53.432 link right in the show notes. 00:01:54.342 --> 00:01:58.212 Tell us where you've been, what you've been up to and, and why we 00:01:58.212 --> 00:02:02.902 got into launching a new podcast under your, under your brand. 00:02:04.212 --> 00:02:04.792 Nyasha: Yeah. 00:02:04.792 --> 00:02:10.042 So, as you know, I was podcasting before, but it was always through other companies. 00:02:10.052 --> 00:02:16.072 So I basically did the hosting or speaking sometimes the transcripts, but I never 00:02:16.572 --> 00:02:20.692 created my own podcast from scratch where I had to do like the editing and you know, 00:02:20.692 --> 00:02:22.572 find the people and do the subject matter. 00:02:22.572 --> 00:02:24.692 And it's something that I always wanted to do. 00:02:24.782 --> 00:02:30.062 I didn't see myself doing it specifically on this subject matter, but, this 00:02:30.062 --> 00:02:31.892 came about because I was laid off. 00:02:32.072 --> 00:02:38.122 Since our last chat, again, in January, right after Christmas, and it had 00:02:38.122 --> 00:02:40.402 been my second layoff in six months. 00:02:40.442 --> 00:02:43.922 I had been laid off that summer and then I got laid off that winter. 00:02:44.652 --> 00:02:49.492 And since January, it's now June, it has been 00:02:51.532 --> 00:02:51.972 I don't know. 00:02:51.982 --> 00:02:53.992 I don't know if there's one word to describe. 00:02:53.992 --> 00:03:00.222 It's been a roller coaster of craziness and emotions and just a lot. 00:03:00.462 --> 00:03:06.632 just going from, you know, the obvious income to no income, but resources to no 00:03:06.642 --> 00:03:11.352 resources, health insurance, no health insurance, you know, things like that. 00:03:11.882 --> 00:03:15.052 And, I of course have gone through all the feelings that you can go through 00:03:15.052 --> 00:03:19.542 when something like that happens, but what inspired me to actually make this 00:03:19.562 --> 00:03:25.782 podcast and not just rant on Twitter is that I talked to a lot of people. 00:03:26.397 --> 00:03:29.157 Friends, family, and people, just colleagues. 00:03:29.227 --> 00:03:30.517 And it wasn't just me. 00:03:31.037 --> 00:03:33.897 everybody knows there are a lot of tech layoffs going on right now. 00:03:33.927 --> 00:03:37.447 There are a lot of companies going under, there are a lot of people 00:03:37.457 --> 00:03:39.637 not doing well in the job space. 00:03:40.147 --> 00:03:43.647 And as I talked to people about my situation and they shared their 00:03:43.647 --> 00:03:48.617 situations with me, I realized that it was a lot of us, a lot, a lot of lot. 00:03:49.337 --> 00:03:54.822 And What has been getting me through this, because it has been a very tough time. 00:03:54.922 --> 00:03:58.262 if you listen to my podcast, I'll say in my episode, this is the most 00:03:58.262 --> 00:04:01.942 difficult thing that has ever happened to me in my life, which I'm happy 00:04:01.942 --> 00:04:06.402 and privileged to say, but I have had a really good support system. 00:04:06.732 --> 00:04:13.322 I've had a, my family has swooped in to save me more than, A handful of times 00:04:13.332 --> 00:04:21.402 the last year, my friends, my colleagues, even, former coworkers, they have, you 00:04:21.402 --> 00:04:25.772 know, been there for me, but the more I talk to people, the more I realize a lot 00:04:25.772 --> 00:04:27.672 of people don't have that support system. 00:04:28.257 --> 00:04:32.767 It's a lot, especially in the United States, we're very 00:04:32.777 --> 00:04:37.397 individualistic society and that's kind of harming people right now. 00:04:37.957 --> 00:04:42.177 So I said, instead of getting on a, going on a rant, which, you know, everybody 00:04:42.177 --> 00:04:45.877 wants to do instead of, you know, burying my feelings, which is not healthy. 00:04:46.387 --> 00:04:49.917 I thought, why don't I make something that we can come to as a collective 00:04:50.117 --> 00:04:52.187 and talk about what's going on? 00:04:52.367 --> 00:04:53.547 What's the state of jobs? 00:04:53.547 --> 00:04:54.997 What's the state of working right now? 00:04:55.417 --> 00:04:57.527 Place a place where people can know they're not alone. 00:04:57.707 --> 00:04:59.357 So that's where it came from. 00:04:59.367 --> 00:05:00.337 I was actually inspired. 00:05:00.337 --> 00:05:02.587 One of my friends was telling me about how he was struggling with 00:05:02.587 --> 00:05:07.267 his drug drug job loss and he lost his job around the same time as me. 00:05:07.657 --> 00:05:10.287 I've had, I worked three jobs right now. 00:05:10.307 --> 00:05:14.287 I've had three, I've had four jobs since my first layoff and I've had 00:05:14.307 --> 00:05:17.257 three as of now and he hasn't had one. 00:05:17.787 --> 00:05:20.437 And just hearing stories like that, it crushed me. 00:05:20.567 --> 00:05:23.677 And again, I felt I'm just so privileged to have that support system. 00:05:23.677 --> 00:05:26.787 These colleagues, you know, recommending me places and people 00:05:27.247 --> 00:05:30.207 willing to step up for me, like, how can I be that for someone else? 00:05:30.277 --> 00:05:32.727 So that's where the hopeful workspace came from. 00:05:32.737 --> 00:05:35.687 I want people to know that they have a support system, even if they 00:05:35.687 --> 00:05:37.607 don't know me and they're not alone. 00:05:38.462 --> 00:05:42.792 Matt: We talk about the WordPress community being so great, inviting, you 00:05:42.792 --> 00:05:47.162 know, folks that can connect with each other, you know, we always say, you know, 00:05:47.532 --> 00:05:51.742 even in competitors and competition and let's say if you are making a plugin and 00:05:51.742 --> 00:05:54.172 selling a plugin and somebody else is selling the same plugin, we call them 00:05:54.172 --> 00:05:56.092 frenemies in the space, whatever, right? 00:05:56.092 --> 00:06:01.302 There's a, there's a lot of this, what I'll say is maybe this vanity of a 00:06:01.302 --> 00:06:05.292 welcoming community, and maybe that's even not the right word because it's not false. 00:06:05.792 --> 00:06:10.152 It's just, where I'm going with this is, there's no central place to say, 00:06:10.342 --> 00:06:14.412 or at least that I know of, you can just go to and say, I need help. 00:06:14.502 --> 00:06:16.552 Hey community, I need help. 00:06:16.892 --> 00:06:22.622 Whether it's finding a partner for a project to work on, or getting a job, or 00:06:22.622 --> 00:06:25.382 getting educated, on things in WordPress. 00:06:25.782 --> 00:06:31.682 I don't know of a central source is truly a help or a beacon to the community. 00:06:32.247 --> 00:06:37.367 Unless you know of one, or you can share maybe your thoughts and your opinion on 00:06:37.577 --> 00:06:40.867 when you were going through, you know, losing the job, and then losing the 00:06:40.867 --> 00:06:44.867 second job, like, where did you turn to in the community to find that help? 00:06:45.337 --> 00:06:50.527 If at all, did you find it as welcoming as maybe we perceive it to be? 00:06:52.247 --> 00:06:53.507 Nyasha: That's a good question. 00:06:53.557 --> 00:06:57.877 So I'm, I have many thoughts, but I'm with you. 00:06:57.877 --> 00:06:59.527 I don't think there's one central place. 00:06:59.557 --> 00:07:01.207 There isn't, and there have been. 00:07:01.677 --> 00:07:05.957 Places that are have propped up to try to be that one central place, but 00:07:06.437 --> 00:07:11.117 there isn't I again, privileged to be a connected person in the community. 00:07:11.117 --> 00:07:12.067 At least I think so. 00:07:12.567 --> 00:07:17.257 I basically told people after my first layoff, I was, that was the first time I 00:07:17.257 --> 00:07:18.967 ever got laid off fired in my entire life. 00:07:18.967 --> 00:07:20.637 I didn't tell anybody for a month or two. 00:07:20.637 --> 00:07:22.627 So most people didn't know for a while. 00:07:23.107 --> 00:07:25.787 but I turned to social media, honestly. 00:07:25.827 --> 00:07:29.157 And, when social media found out, Because I have a, I don't have a 00:07:29.157 --> 00:07:30.797 large following, but it's not small. 00:07:30.837 --> 00:07:34.127 I was able to get some connections through a few people in the WordPress 00:07:34.167 --> 00:07:35.857 community through social media. 00:07:36.057 --> 00:07:37.937 And that helped me get my second job. 00:07:38.287 --> 00:07:42.687 well, the second layoff job, but, I think if you have a large network, 00:07:42.697 --> 00:07:47.167 it's easy, but you know, even before I got laid off from any job, I told 00:07:47.197 --> 00:07:49.697 people like, you know, I'm one person. 00:07:50.812 --> 00:07:54.072 if there's someone, you know, I know, and they have 200, 300 00:07:54.072 --> 00:07:56.732 followers, they've never been to a WordCamp, they've never spoken. 00:07:56.732 --> 00:07:58.442 They don't know how to really connect with people. 00:07:58.442 --> 00:08:01.462 They're not in the 5 million slacks that we have. 00:08:01.852 --> 00:08:03.092 Where do they turn? 00:08:03.482 --> 00:08:04.592 What do they do? 00:08:04.802 --> 00:08:09.412 You know, if I hadn't befriended so many people, I don't think I would 00:08:09.412 --> 00:08:11.662 have gotten the connections I did. 00:08:11.672 --> 00:08:14.792 So I don't think there's a central place for people, unfortunately. 00:08:15.302 --> 00:08:17.502 I, again, I think there are places popping up. 00:08:17.592 --> 00:08:21.362 Michelle for shit does her weekly Wednesday, job postings, in 00:08:21.372 --> 00:08:23.042 their jobs all over the world. 00:08:23.042 --> 00:08:26.922 So I think they're very inclusive and it's a very positive thing. 00:08:27.042 --> 00:08:28.622 but Michelle has a lot of projects. 00:08:28.632 --> 00:08:29.982 She can't do it all. 00:08:30.442 --> 00:08:34.022 So, you know, there that's that, and you mentioned learning. 00:08:34.642 --> 00:08:37.722 As someone who works for LinkedIn learning, making WordPress courses, 00:08:37.722 --> 00:08:40.132 that is a big source of controversy. 00:08:40.182 --> 00:08:43.812 there's a lot of places people, they just don't feel like they can go 00:08:43.812 --> 00:08:50.302 to learn, learn WP or, yeah, learn WP is supposed to be that place. 00:08:50.352 --> 00:08:54.912 And they do a great job, especially Bostinger and, Courtney Robertson, but 00:08:54.912 --> 00:08:59.822 again, it's it's only a handful of people We need more people to come in and kind 00:08:59.822 --> 00:09:03.642 of like elevate and make these spaces or help out with these spaces It can't 00:09:03.642 --> 00:09:07.332 be the same people doing the same things because they're going to be stretched thin 00:09:07.572 --> 00:09:16.107 and it won't reach as many people Yeah 00:09:16.332 --> 00:09:18.672 Matt: when you were, you were laid off last year, I'm trying 00:09:18.672 --> 00:09:20.172 to forget because now the time. 00:09:21.307 --> 00:09:27.437 So I was also laid off in beginning of end of 2022 going into 2023. 00:09:28.467 --> 00:09:28.757 right. 00:09:28.947 --> 00:09:29.267 Yes. 00:09:29.277 --> 00:09:29.737 I think so. 00:09:29.997 --> 00:09:30.247 Yes. 00:09:30.247 --> 00:09:31.857 I've been at Gravity Forms for just over a year. 00:09:31.857 --> 00:09:35.717 So 2023, your first layoff, my first layoff too. 00:09:35.757 --> 00:09:37.317 I've never been laid off before like that. 00:09:37.347 --> 00:09:39.227 And you experienced the same thing in 2023. 00:09:39.227 --> 00:09:43.392 So like the whole industry was going through it, but you know, You, I also 00:09:43.432 --> 00:09:48.122 have invested a lot of time on the social media side of it, connecting with others. 00:09:49.092 --> 00:09:54.852 Is that something we should be teaching, teaching with air quotes, part of being 00:09:54.862 --> 00:09:58.612 what I'll call a WordPress professional or a professional in the tech space 00:09:58.612 --> 00:10:02.982 to, to be more social and to connect with others, because that was super 00:10:02.982 --> 00:10:04.882 important for me to find another job. 00:10:05.262 --> 00:10:06.967 And it sounds like it was the same. 00:10:07.227 --> 00:10:10.207 Importance with you is if you hadn't created that network, maybe 00:10:10.207 --> 00:10:13.107 it wouldn't have been as easy to just, you know, post stuff on social 00:10:13.107 --> 00:10:14.817 and get people to amplify that. 00:10:15.177 --> 00:10:17.007 Is that even possible to teach? 00:10:17.187 --> 00:10:24.327 Am I that or overstating that, that creating a social network is important 00:10:24.337 --> 00:10:28.167 for, for us in the job space so that when we are looking for another 00:10:28.167 --> 00:10:31.357 job, it's, it's a little bit easier, there's a super unique to WordPress, 00:10:31.647 --> 00:10:32.637 what's, what's your point of view? 00:10:33.597 --> 00:10:35.597 Nyasha: yes, I think it's something that can be taught. 00:10:35.657 --> 00:10:39.307 I was actually taught to do, to do this and it's just, it's harder in 00:10:39.307 --> 00:10:42.567 the tech space because we have so many people who identify as introverts. 00:10:43.287 --> 00:10:46.617 and it's hard for them to go out and do that. 00:10:46.847 --> 00:10:50.917 People don't believe me because I'm such a sparkling personality. 00:10:51.017 --> 00:10:52.797 I was a very big introvert. 00:10:53.257 --> 00:10:54.237 I just had no choice. 00:10:54.267 --> 00:10:54.977 I had no choice. 00:10:54.977 --> 00:10:55.927 I had to become an extrovert. 00:10:55.997 --> 00:10:57.607 First of all, I'm six, two people. 00:10:58.322 --> 00:11:00.282 They see a 6'2 woman, they will bother you. 00:11:00.312 --> 00:11:01.352 People bother me every day. 00:11:02.572 --> 00:11:04.202 Two, I want things. 00:11:04.202 --> 00:11:05.172 I'm very ambitious. 00:11:05.172 --> 00:11:08.102 I've always been very ambitious, especially since I was a child. 00:11:08.132 --> 00:11:12.172 And my mom and dad used to say, you have to open your mouth if you want something. 00:11:12.592 --> 00:11:14.772 So, it can be taught. 00:11:14.822 --> 00:11:18.602 when I first finished my coding classes, they said, hey, it's not 00:11:18.602 --> 00:11:20.082 what you know, it's who you know. 00:11:20.312 --> 00:11:21.242 That's how you'll get a job. 00:11:21.242 --> 00:11:23.162 I'm sure we've all heard that before. 00:11:23.162 --> 00:11:26.572 It's It's that times 10 right now. 00:11:26.612 --> 00:11:29.582 I've talked to many people older than me and they said this is the worst job 00:11:29.582 --> 00:11:31.252 market they've ever seen in their lives. 00:11:31.882 --> 00:11:36.512 So, I mean, yes, it can be taught and it should be taught, especially 00:11:36.512 --> 00:11:37.732 in the WordPress community. 00:11:38.072 --> 00:11:41.302 the people I see getting laid off and then getting jobs again are the 00:11:41.302 --> 00:11:44.542 people who know people, they got a job because their friend works someplace 00:11:44.542 --> 00:11:45.592 or their friend owned something. 00:11:45.592 --> 00:11:46.126 That's great. 00:11:46.126 --> 00:11:49.838 But what is everybody else going to do? 00:11:49.838 --> 00:11:50.302 It's. 00:11:50.702 --> 00:11:53.992 So it's what millions of people all over the world will use WordPress. 00:11:54.512 --> 00:11:55.642 We don't all know each other. 00:11:55.642 --> 00:11:57.032 We don't all have that network. 00:11:57.032 --> 00:11:59.842 So yes, it's something that should and can be taught. 00:12:00.302 --> 00:12:05.832 And again, it's not, it's not what you know, it's who, you know, unfortunately. 00:12:06.257 --> 00:12:10.767 Matt: Yeah, it's It's also almost sort of the same way because I've seen 00:12:11.247 --> 00:12:17.447 that this is a forever debate about open source WordPress and influence, 00:12:18.087 --> 00:12:20.187 know, let's say from automatic and 00:12:20.642 --> 00:12:21.521 Nyasha: hmm. 00:12:21.521 --> 00:12:23.278 Mm hmm. 00:12:23.278 --> 00:12:25.036 Mm hmm. 00:12:25.036 --> 00:12:26.794 Mm hmm. 00:12:26.794 --> 00:12:28.552 Mm hmm. 00:12:28.687 --> 00:12:31.927 Matt: I just mean this is how it sort of like gets done core contributors. 00:12:31.927 --> 00:12:35.067 Like in order to get it done, you have to, you know, be that squeaky 00:12:35.067 --> 00:12:36.437 wheel to keep bringing something up. 00:12:36.437 --> 00:12:41.347 And there are track tickets like decade plus in age that people are still 00:12:41.347 --> 00:12:42.937 like, is this ever going to get fixed? 00:12:43.647 --> 00:12:46.927 Like that, like being vocal and connecting with other people. 00:12:46.927 --> 00:12:49.487 that's just, that's how open source works to a degree. 00:12:49.487 --> 00:12:50.797 It's how marketing works. 00:12:50.797 --> 00:12:56.037 It's a core fundamental piece of operating, at least online. 00:12:56.047 --> 00:13:00.557 I don't know if, well, your opinion, I don't know if this same 00:13:00.557 --> 00:13:04.207 thing works in regular job land. 00:13:04.357 --> 00:13:06.267 Is that, is that, can I even say that? 00:13:06.267 --> 00:13:07.037 Is that fair to say? 00:13:07.087 --> 00:13:07.767 or maybe it does. 00:13:07.767 --> 00:13:08.217 I don't know. 00:13:08.217 --> 00:13:09.427 Do you have a particular opinion? 00:13:09.447 --> 00:13:12.637 if we're not doing tech, is all of this just thrown out the window? 00:13:12.637 --> 00:13:14.977 And, and do we have to feel bad about it? 00:13:15.887 --> 00:13:20.787 for, for people who have to get regular jobs without this kind of, this kind 00:13:20.787 --> 00:13:22.647 of, you know, advantage that we have. 00:13:24.147 --> 00:13:26.317 Nyasha: you're no, it's, it's the same. 00:13:26.387 --> 00:13:28.217 It's the same in the regular job market. 00:13:28.217 --> 00:13:31.647 So the regular, the tech job market to me is awful right now. 00:13:32.407 --> 00:13:34.577 The regular job market is also pretty bad. 00:13:34.597 --> 00:13:36.757 that was one thing I wanted to highlight in my podcast. 00:13:36.787 --> 00:13:39.907 I was like, I don't want it to be another WordPress podcast. 00:13:39.907 --> 00:13:43.807 I don't want it to be another tech podcast, but because that's what I do, 00:13:43.817 --> 00:13:47.437 you know, of course it's going to have a large focus on it, but let me hear from 00:13:47.437 --> 00:13:49.217 people in different industries, which is. 00:13:49.522 --> 00:13:51.442 Who are featured on the podcast. 00:13:51.842 --> 00:13:53.312 Let me hear what they're talking about. 00:13:53.342 --> 00:13:54.422 let me hear from a manager. 00:13:54.422 --> 00:13:57.262 I had a manager who actually does hiring and firing on there. 00:13:57.712 --> 00:13:59.232 And, it's bad all over. 00:13:59.232 --> 00:14:01.282 And it's something you'll have to learn all over. 00:14:01.332 --> 00:14:05.952 Like my first job after my second layoff in January, I couldn't get a job. 00:14:05.962 --> 00:14:07.122 I tried to get a job in tech. 00:14:07.182 --> 00:14:08.152 I couldn't get a job. 00:14:08.202 --> 00:14:14.192 And as of March, I was like, well, I can keep holding out for another tech job. 00:14:14.447 --> 00:14:19.237 And lose my home or I can go get a Rick and I'm doing the air quotes, regular job. 00:14:19.727 --> 00:14:24.697 And so I got my first job in March and it was a regular job and the 00:14:24.697 --> 00:14:29.627 place I work at, I won't say what I'm doing because honestly I am still, 00:14:31.847 --> 00:14:36.872 I hate to say, It's not any, I hate to like even stumble on it cause people 00:14:36.872 --> 00:14:37.682 are like, well, what are you doing? 00:14:37.682 --> 00:14:38.122 Is it bad? 00:14:38.122 --> 00:14:38.742 It's nothing bad. 00:14:38.742 --> 00:14:41.232 It's very legal job for everybody listening. 00:14:41.672 --> 00:14:45.122 but it's just, it's not something I never thought I would ever be doing. 00:14:45.652 --> 00:14:47.852 but that job has been so supportive. 00:14:48.332 --> 00:14:52.122 they've helped me a lot and I work with five other people. 00:14:52.617 --> 00:14:56.747 Two of whom are a married couple and the husband got the job through his wife. 00:14:57.267 --> 00:15:03.257 So yes, especially outside of tech, you still need to know people. 00:15:03.477 --> 00:15:04.807 I don't know, I know you're on Twitter. 00:15:04.807 --> 00:15:09.617 Did you see the guy that said he, he put in 463 job applications 00:15:09.657 --> 00:15:11.007 and he didn't get a call back. 00:15:11.007 --> 00:15:14.997 That was trending on Twitter last week, I think. 00:15:15.017 --> 00:15:20.122 And, it started a big debate about like, how the job process is broken 00:15:20.122 --> 00:15:21.812 and he shouldn't have to do that. 00:15:21.812 --> 00:15:23.712 And then it's people on the other side saying, well, that's just 00:15:23.712 --> 00:15:25.322 what you have to do these days. 00:15:25.772 --> 00:15:30.732 And then there's people kind of in the middle, like it sucks, but honestly, 00:15:30.732 --> 00:15:35.412 it's who, you know, now everywhere, you'd need to know somebody to get a job. 00:15:35.697 --> 00:15:35.997 Matt: Yeah. 00:15:36.907 --> 00:15:39.887 It, and that's a non, that's a non tech job. 00:15:41.137 --> 00:15:46.217 Does it feel good not to have to think about PHP and just for a few hours a day? 00:15:47.487 --> 00:15:51.247 Nyasha: So when I first started the job, it was my only job. 00:15:51.267 --> 00:15:51.627 Kinda. 00:15:51.637 --> 00:15:54.587 I still work for LinkedIn, but it's LinkedIn is not a continuous job. 00:15:54.587 --> 00:15:57.497 So that was, my only job technically at the time. 00:15:57.527 --> 00:15:59.127 And yes, it was wonderful. 00:15:59.337 --> 00:15:59.677 Matt: Yeah. 00:16:00.167 --> 00:16:01.737 Nyasha: when I clocked out and went home. 00:16:01.737 --> 00:16:02.557 Cause it was in person. 00:16:02.557 --> 00:16:05.197 My first in person job too, in a long time, when I clocked out 00:16:05.197 --> 00:16:06.427 and I went home, I was home. 00:16:06.497 --> 00:16:08.217 I didn't have to think about code or anything else. 00:16:08.217 --> 00:16:12.237 My second job is writing. 00:16:12.237 --> 00:16:13.147 I'm writing again. 00:16:13.532 --> 00:16:14.862 And, it's technical writing. 00:16:14.862 --> 00:16:17.362 So it was a little bit back into it, but it's just writing. 00:16:17.642 --> 00:16:22.362 My third job that I started two weeks ago, I'm back web development, web 00:16:22.362 --> 00:16:25.822 maintenance, and I'm doing PHP and JavaScript again, and I can definitely 00:16:25.822 --> 00:16:29.052 feel the difference because, last night I was sleeping and I was thinking about 00:16:29.052 --> 00:16:30.712 some code while I was going to sleep. 00:16:30.712 --> 00:16:31.492 I was thinking about some code. 00:16:31.502 --> 00:16:32.422 I needed to change. 00:16:32.422 --> 00:16:33.572 I was like, I'm not getting out of the bed. 00:16:33.852 --> 00:16:35.212 So I was back at it. 00:16:35.367 --> 00:16:37.467 Matt: Yeah, I'm gonna just put it 00:16:37.502 --> 00:16:37.632 Nyasha: Oh, 00:16:37.737 --> 00:16:40.497 Matt: now like once was my house is paid off. 00:16:41.447 --> 00:16:43.457 I might just become a landscaper. 00:16:43.597 --> 00:16:44.607 I just want to buy a truck, 00:16:44.712 --> 00:16:45.132 Nyasha: yeah. 00:16:45.132 --> 00:16:47.252 Mm hmm. 00:16:47.252 --> 00:16:48.312 Mm 00:16:48.887 --> 00:16:49.967 Matt: website that there is. 00:16:50.577 --> 00:16:55.797 And just, automate all, the making and use, use all that tech advantage that 00:16:55.797 --> 00:16:57.507 I've been building up for, for years. 00:16:57.767 --> 00:16:59.487 And just, what, you want me to cut this grass? 00:16:59.487 --> 00:17:01.787 Okay, it's, it's 30, it's 40, that's it. 00:17:01.827 --> 00:17:02.177 That's the 00:17:02.412 --> 00:17:02.602 Nyasha: hmm. 00:17:03.167 --> 00:17:04.037 Matt: I want to think about. 00:17:04.067 --> 00:17:09.847 I don't want to think about any more code or product you know, marketing and 00:17:09.847 --> 00:17:11.897 why isn't this attribution link working. 00:17:11.907 --> 00:17:12.767 I want to be done with it. 00:17:13.437 --> 00:17:13.677 Yeah. 00:17:13.677 --> 00:17:17.067 I, I mean, did, did you ever, for a moment, think about, and maybe you do, 00:17:17.127 --> 00:17:20.757 still, maybe on, on the side side, but did you ever think about, you know what, so 00:17:20.787 --> 00:17:22.707 finding a job isn't, isn't working out. 00:17:22.707 --> 00:17:25.612 Maybe I'll just go into pure freelancer consultant mode. 00:17:25.612 --> 00:17:29.632 I'll just go out, find a book of business again, and start, start with that. 00:17:29.732 --> 00:17:32.342 is that a thing that you ever thought about or is that, you know, I, I, 00:17:32.342 --> 00:17:34.892 it's not something I want to, that's not the kind of risk I wanna take on. 00:17:36.427 --> 00:17:40.077 Nyasha: Yeah, I actually, what kept me floating through the first 00:17:40.077 --> 00:17:43.367 few months after my second layoff this year was I had contract work. 00:17:43.607 --> 00:17:46.457 I had some friends who started a small candle business. 00:17:46.737 --> 00:17:50.087 I had another person who was, who had a consulting website on Wix 00:17:51.187 --> 00:17:53.037 and she just needed a new website. 00:17:53.077 --> 00:17:56.677 so I had some people who had, maintenance clients, maintenance 00:17:56.677 --> 00:17:57.427 work is my favorite work. 00:17:57.427 --> 00:17:58.337 I love fixing stuff. 00:17:58.777 --> 00:18:01.922 And they were like, you know, These people need help, but I don't have the bandwidth. 00:18:02.002 --> 00:18:02.892 Can I send them to you? 00:18:03.112 --> 00:18:04.172 So I've done it. 00:18:04.172 --> 00:18:04.522 Yes. 00:18:04.562 --> 00:18:06.762 And, I like contracting freelancing. 00:18:07.002 --> 00:18:11.392 I don't want to do it full time and I don't want to depend on it for money. 00:18:11.432 --> 00:18:11.762 Matt: Yeah. 00:18:12.242 --> 00:18:16.022 Nyasha: And all three of my jobs I'm working right now are contract jobs and 00:18:16.412 --> 00:18:20.172 it's great because I get paid every week and you know, it's tax free for now. 00:18:20.542 --> 00:18:24.052 But, I, you know, the trade office, I don't have health insurance. 00:18:24.547 --> 00:18:27.317 That would have been the same thing if I, you know, if I was 00:18:27.317 --> 00:18:30.177 freelancing, I don't have PTO. 00:18:30.427 --> 00:18:33.777 I got sick in May, April, I got really sick and I was in the 00:18:33.787 --> 00:18:35.357 hospital, which nobody knows. 00:18:35.407 --> 00:18:35.917 I didn't tell anybody. 00:18:36.057 --> 00:18:39.377 So when they listen to this deal here and, no health insurance, no PTO. 00:18:39.387 --> 00:18:43.617 So it's I left the hospital with a doctor's bill that I couldn't pay really. 00:18:43.697 --> 00:18:45.617 And I lost money from work. 00:18:45.822 --> 00:18:46.002 Matt: Yep. 00:18:46.027 --> 00:18:49.307 Nyasha: So I'm not brave enough yet. 00:18:49.357 --> 00:18:51.327 that's something like when I'm working with. 00:18:51.722 --> 00:18:55.552 Like i'm making like really good money again, and i'm getting benefits 00:18:55.742 --> 00:18:59.812 I start on the side I build it up on the side It's building up and then 00:18:59.812 --> 00:19:03.002 when I feel comfortable enough to make that jump i'll i'll do that. 00:19:03.002 --> 00:19:14.202 But right now i'm just i'm scared I 00:19:14.227 --> 00:19:15.267 Matt: way of, framing it. 00:19:15.267 --> 00:19:21.527 But how do you think about, as, let's say, a full time employee, how 00:19:21.527 --> 00:19:24.427 do you think about hedging your own 00:19:26.747 --> 00:19:27.537 interest in the future? 00:19:27.587 --> 00:19:28.387 Here's what I'm getting at. 00:19:29.457 --> 00:19:33.177 And I know the answer is semi is you're, you have the hopeful workspace 00:19:33.227 --> 00:19:36.997 podcast and, and your other work that you're doing, but how do we make that? 00:19:37.127 --> 00:19:40.897 Should we make this, should we normalize this and can it be normalized and 00:19:40.897 --> 00:19:43.747 can employers also support this? 00:19:43.937 --> 00:19:48.777 So let's say you can, you continue the podcast and it's two, three years from 00:19:48.777 --> 00:19:54.467 now, and the podcast is still going and know, maybe this job, maybe your full time 00:19:54.467 --> 00:19:57.577 job, let's go again, or you leave, right? 00:19:58.412 --> 00:20:01.992 But you have the body of work over the last two or three 00:20:01.992 --> 00:20:03.512 years running the podcast. 00:20:03.942 --> 00:20:06.032 You know, all your social media stuff. 00:20:07.142 --> 00:20:09.272 Should we normalize that? 00:20:09.272 --> 00:20:12.662 should you get a full time job and then also have a side hustle? 00:20:12.862 --> 00:20:17.742 As like an insurance, as a, as like an insurance barrier to, I 00:20:17.742 --> 00:20:20.902 might lose this job so I have to keep like hustling on the side. 00:20:21.192 --> 00:20:22.432 Is that something we should be doing? 00:20:22.432 --> 00:20:22.487 I don't know. 00:20:23.437 --> 00:20:24.377 should we be doing it? 00:20:24.377 --> 00:20:27.717 And if the answer is yes, should employers be like, Oh, no, it's 00:20:27.717 --> 00:20:29.027 cool that you have a side hustle. 00:20:29.027 --> 00:20:29.407 It's okay. 00:20:29.407 --> 00:20:31.657 Because we understand how hard it is. 00:20:31.737 --> 00:20:32.447 Is that a thing? 00:20:32.777 --> 00:20:33.557 Should that be a thing? 00:20:35.972 --> 00:20:37.422 Nyasha: have two answers to that. 00:20:37.497 --> 00:20:37.597 Matt: I 00:20:37.822 --> 00:20:38.472 Nyasha: I'll tell you 00:20:38.517 --> 00:20:38.637 Matt: it. 00:20:38.637 --> 00:20:39.297 I don't know how to 00:20:39.417 --> 00:20:41.297 Nyasha: No, I know exactly what you're saying. 00:20:41.507 --> 00:20:46.277 It's the normalization of hustle culture is what people call it on Twitter. 00:20:46.573 --> 00:20:49.267 Matt: Mm hmm. 00:20:49.267 --> 00:20:54.567 Nyasha: me a couple of years ago, I would have told you, no, we should not do this. 00:20:55.097 --> 00:20:57.477 working three jobs is, is exhausting. 00:20:57.477 --> 00:21:01.007 The only reason I can do it is because my, one of my jobs, the first one 00:21:01.007 --> 00:21:03.647 I got, it's a sit down desk job. 00:21:04.227 --> 00:21:07.057 And sometimes we have, well, a lot of the times we have downtime. 00:21:07.382 --> 00:21:10.642 And I can, and they don't care what I do as long as I'm at work 00:21:10.662 --> 00:21:12.352 and you know, my work is finished. 00:21:12.512 --> 00:21:14.292 I could do whatever I want the rest of my shift. 00:21:14.852 --> 00:21:16.752 So I work on other work then. 00:21:17.092 --> 00:21:20.302 So, I think they called it over employment on Reddit when 00:21:20.302 --> 00:21:21.572 people did that during COVID. 00:21:22.182 --> 00:21:24.282 that's how I can work these jobs. 00:21:24.332 --> 00:21:29.092 I was a person then I said that I would work really hard in school and life. 00:21:29.102 --> 00:21:31.072 So I wouldn't have to work more than one job. 00:21:31.412 --> 00:21:34.972 I'm a person that I love my social life and my life outside of work. 00:21:35.012 --> 00:21:36.102 I do not love work. 00:21:36.112 --> 00:21:37.542 I don't want to live to work. 00:21:38.162 --> 00:21:39.862 And, that's how I lived my life. 00:21:39.862 --> 00:21:41.392 I excelled and I did well. 00:21:41.412 --> 00:21:44.352 So I wouldn't have to hustle, join hustle culture. 00:21:45.012 --> 00:21:50.612 After my layoffs, my answer has changed because I am so terrified 00:21:51.152 --> 00:21:52.962 of not having any income. 00:21:53.067 --> 00:21:53.337 Matt: Mm. 00:21:53.732 --> 00:21:57.122 Nyasha: And I think the job market is so bad, especially in tech. 00:21:57.622 --> 00:22:00.892 I think people should have at least one backup. 00:22:01.527 --> 00:22:03.617 And if it's not something they're working currently, 00:22:03.617 --> 00:22:05.297 something they can fall back on. 00:22:05.397 --> 00:22:08.407 I had, when I got laid off from my first job, there were a lot 00:22:08.407 --> 00:22:10.617 of, of my former employees. 00:22:10.617 --> 00:22:11.807 They had other side hustles. 00:22:11.807 --> 00:22:12.867 They were like, well, it's okay. 00:22:12.867 --> 00:22:16.157 I have a book of business where I can go and just work off that. 00:22:16.177 --> 00:22:21.657 Or some people were like, well, you know, my spouse, my owns a business. 00:22:21.667 --> 00:22:23.597 I'll go work for them or work with them. 00:22:24.752 --> 00:22:29.052 And, me and one of my other coworker, she was like, well, what are you going to do? 00:22:29.842 --> 00:22:31.682 I was like, I don't know. 00:22:31.682 --> 00:22:32.482 What are you going to do? 00:22:32.482 --> 00:22:33.372 She was like, I don't know. 00:22:35.092 --> 00:22:38.862 So, I hate that it's come to that in the United States. 00:22:38.907 --> 00:22:39.247 Matt: Mm. 00:22:39.472 --> 00:22:42.982 Nyasha: You used to get your white picket fence and what was the American dream? 00:22:43.002 --> 00:22:44.922 The white picket fence, two and a half kids. 00:22:45.457 --> 00:22:46.137 In a car 00:22:46.447 --> 00:22:46.847 Matt: Yeah, the 00:22:47.027 --> 00:22:49.847 Nyasha: and you could work, Homer Simpson work, you know, pushing 00:22:49.847 --> 00:22:51.577 buttons at a nuclear power plant. 00:22:51.587 --> 00:22:54.837 He has like a five bedroom house, two, three kids, two cars. 00:22:54.992 --> 00:22:55.272 Matt: yeah. 00:22:55.567 --> 00:22:56.757 Nyasha: impossible now. 00:22:56.787 --> 00:23:01.057 So I just think, no, we shouldn't, we shouldn't be telling people this. 00:23:01.067 --> 00:23:04.457 It shouldn't be normalized, but some of us have no choice. 00:23:04.552 --> 00:23:04.932 Matt: Hmm. 00:23:05.477 --> 00:23:07.247 Nyasha: it's just, it just depends on who you are. 00:23:07.247 --> 00:23:08.007 I have no choice. 00:23:08.007 --> 00:23:09.467 I have, I'm married. 00:23:09.467 --> 00:23:10.977 My husband works very hard. 00:23:10.977 --> 00:23:12.217 He supported me a lot. 00:23:12.227 --> 00:23:13.577 He was a good support system. 00:23:14.052 --> 00:23:15.272 I know people who got laid off. 00:23:15.272 --> 00:23:16.242 They had nobody. 00:23:16.432 --> 00:23:17.572 Some of them lost their homes. 00:23:17.572 --> 00:23:18.562 They lost their cars. 00:23:19.042 --> 00:23:23.582 So it depends on who you are, but if you're in my position or if you 00:23:23.582 --> 00:23:27.572 want me, if you're just directly asking me, yeah, get a side hustle. 00:23:27.982 --> 00:23:29.622 I'm sorry, but get a side hustle. 00:23:30.592 --> 00:23:33.592 Matt: It can even be, like, again, let's frame it from, the 00:23:33.742 --> 00:23:34.082 Nyasha: Mm 00:23:34.922 --> 00:23:35.702 Matt: as an example. 00:23:35.752 --> 00:23:38.962 fill in the blank with your own podcast, dear listener, fill in 00:23:38.962 --> 00:23:40.442 the blank with your own podcast. 00:23:41.172 --> 00:23:43.712 Or YouTube channel, or blog, or newsletter. 00:23:44.202 --> 00:23:44.732 Nyasha: hmm. 00:23:44.732 --> 00:23:46.602 Mm hmm. 00:23:47.482 --> 00:23:50.122 Matt: Like monetization scheme, like you're making, you're selling 00:23:50.122 --> 00:23:51.102 courses, you're doing all this stuff. 00:23:51.122 --> 00:23:53.802 Maybe it doesn't have to be that, but maybe it's just like a body of work, 00:23:53.802 --> 00:23:57.452 a portfolio that says, this is the stuff I'm like super passionate about. 00:23:57.862 --> 00:23:58.412 Nyasha: Mm hmm. 00:23:58.432 --> 00:24:02.382 Matt: the day, like that consistency keeps people aware of what you 00:24:02.612 --> 00:24:05.082 do and the, your abilities. 00:24:05.082 --> 00:24:08.832 And if you ever have to leave a job or a job, let's go, let's you go. 00:24:09.302 --> 00:24:13.112 You can now say, Hey, look, I haven't given up on this body of work. 00:24:13.122 --> 00:24:14.782 By the way, this is what I'm really good at. 00:24:15.797 --> 00:24:17.987 Hopefully this helps me get that job right in 00:24:18.092 --> 00:24:18.762 Nyasha: Mm hmm. 00:24:19.197 --> 00:24:19.677 Matt: market. 00:24:20.717 --> 00:24:20.997 I don't know. 00:24:20.997 --> 00:24:25.297 That's the way maybe I'm too romantic around content and like podcasting and 00:24:25.297 --> 00:24:28.677 all that stuff, but that's how I see it as this is my biggest resume I could 00:24:28.687 --> 00:24:32.597 hand to somebody look, this is all this stuff I haven't given up on in years. 00:24:32.987 --> 00:24:33.797 Do you want to hire me? 00:24:33.797 --> 00:24:34.047 Yes. 00:24:34.057 --> 00:24:34.357 No. 00:24:35.057 --> 00:24:36.257 Nyasha: I think that's wonderful. 00:24:36.407 --> 00:24:39.937 And yeah, like I've been taking, I got a camera for my birthday last year. 00:24:39.937 --> 00:24:41.427 I've been taking professional pictures. 00:24:41.717 --> 00:24:42.957 They've gotten really better. 00:24:42.987 --> 00:24:45.307 Some people have asked me to sell them to them. 00:24:45.307 --> 00:24:46.887 And I'm like, Oh, I never thought about that. 00:24:46.887 --> 00:24:47.917 It's just something for fun. 00:24:47.967 --> 00:24:52.887 I started a garden and I have fresh Herbs and plants have tomatoes 00:24:52.887 --> 00:24:54.027 and lettuce and things like that. 00:24:54.027 --> 00:24:55.647 And people are like, I'll buy that from you. 00:24:55.842 --> 00:24:56.082 Matt: Yeah. 00:24:56.217 --> 00:24:58.947 Nyasha: I'm like, Hmm, I could turn this into something. 00:24:58.947 --> 00:25:02.407 And it's just something I started for like stress relief and fun. 00:25:02.757 --> 00:25:04.117 So yeah, I'm right there with you. 00:25:04.117 --> 00:25:07.857 It doesn't have to be like me working all these like crazy jobs at crazy hours. 00:25:08.652 --> 00:25:08.972 Matt: Yeah. 00:25:09.057 --> 00:25:12.267 Nyasha: some people are against, monetizing their hobbies, but I say, 00:25:12.267 --> 00:25:14.217 you know, don't forget it's your hobby 00:25:14.222 --> 00:25:14.552 Matt: Yeah. 00:25:14.607 --> 00:25:15.367 Nyasha: and you'll be fine. 00:25:15.492 --> 00:25:15.802 Matt: Yeah. 00:25:16.062 --> 00:25:17.232 Back to the hopeful workspace. 00:25:17.312 --> 00:25:19.402 Why, why a podcast? 00:25:19.722 --> 00:25:20.912 Why not a TikTok account? 00:25:20.922 --> 00:25:22.802 Why not a pure YouTube account? 00:25:22.812 --> 00:25:23.662 Like, why not an Instagram? 00:25:24.442 --> 00:25:25.942 I want to know why you picked a podcast. 00:25:27.452 --> 00:25:30.442 Nyasha: I am a person who wants to get to the story. 00:25:30.482 --> 00:25:36.062 I think TikTok is very distracting and TikTok, if you want a successful 00:25:36.062 --> 00:25:37.222 TikTok, it has to be quick. 00:25:37.922 --> 00:25:41.422 So I don't think I could have gotten the story out on TikTok or any medium 00:25:41.422 --> 00:25:42.882 like that because it's really quick. 00:25:43.202 --> 00:25:46.252 And I don't know, it was like 20 seconds to get your point across. 00:25:46.292 --> 00:25:47.842 Oh, being laid off sucks. 00:25:48.332 --> 00:25:50.192 TikTok dance, glitter, glitter. 00:25:50.352 --> 00:25:50.712 Yeah. 00:25:52.102 --> 00:25:54.572 Oh, that wouldn't be the best thing for me. 00:25:54.602 --> 00:25:59.547 but I think A lot of people who I talked to also said that listening to podcasts 00:25:59.557 --> 00:26:03.557 about feeling better, about mental health, about, just certain stuff they were 00:26:03.557 --> 00:26:04.907 going through, it really helped them. 00:26:04.987 --> 00:26:05.917 And it helped me too. 00:26:05.957 --> 00:26:09.437 There were, a few podcasts people would send to me just about Hey, 00:26:09.877 --> 00:26:12.977 if you're not having a good day, you should listen to this or, Or 00:26:13.017 --> 00:26:13.937 this is what we're talking about. 00:26:13.937 --> 00:26:16.567 This is all the good news going on in the world with, you 00:26:16.567 --> 00:26:17.767 know, amongst all the bad news. 00:26:18.167 --> 00:26:21.667 So I said, Hmm, people for some reason seem to like my voice. 00:26:21.697 --> 00:26:22.597 I don't like my voice. 00:26:22.627 --> 00:26:25.747 I'm like, why don't I just hop on a podcast and talk to people, 00:26:26.177 --> 00:26:29.207 but also, give these other people a chance to tell their stories. 00:26:29.207 --> 00:26:33.417 And, I could talk to people all over, you know, the world if I want to, if I 00:26:33.417 --> 00:26:36.897 do a podcast because of the internet, just, you know, and then I can put it on 00:26:36.927 --> 00:26:40.997 YouTube, but all the other mediums just seem so restricted or I could only get 00:26:40.997 --> 00:26:43.907 one type of audience in versus a podcast. 00:26:43.937 --> 00:26:45.707 I feel like it could reach way more people. 00:26:45.832 --> 00:26:46.122 Matt: Yeah. 00:26:46.792 --> 00:26:49.942 Yeah, I mean, I am, I only like long form content. 00:26:51.032 --> 00:26:51.292 Because 00:26:51.337 --> 00:26:51.597 Nyasha: hmm. 00:26:51.597 --> 00:26:54.467 Mm hmm. 00:26:55.472 --> 00:26:59.792 Matt: primarily, long form, you know, YouTube channels and stuff like that. 00:27:00.262 --> 00:27:03.972 And, I don't like my work just disappearing like Tik 00:27:03.972 --> 00:27:06.712 TOK, Snapchat, Instagram, 00:27:06.717 --> 00:27:07.557 Nyasha: Yeah. 00:27:07.567 --> 00:27:07.587 Yeah. 00:27:07.602 --> 00:27:08.292 Matt: goes away. 00:27:08.292 --> 00:27:10.092 And it's I put so much effort into this. 00:27:10.742 --> 00:27:14.842 want to write it as a blog, send it as a newsletter and record it as a podcast. 00:27:14.852 --> 00:27:15.072 Sure. 00:27:15.072 --> 00:27:16.702 I'll do YouTube stuff, but. 00:27:17.477 --> 00:27:19.317 I really think that for me, like that 00:27:19.477 --> 00:27:25.307 Nyasha: Mm hmm. 00:27:26.217 --> 00:27:29.597 Matt: And, you know, I guess kids these days don't do that stuff. 00:27:30.327 --> 00:27:32.477 but it's important to me cause it doesn't go away. 00:27:32.477 --> 00:27:33.407 It's our own domain. 00:27:33.437 --> 00:27:34.837 You know, it's a whole open source WordPress thing. 00:27:34.847 --> 00:27:35.827 That's why we do what we do. 00:27:36.257 --> 00:27:40.457 and I, I love the ability to box it up and save it, repurpose it, all that stuff. 00:27:40.807 --> 00:27:43.557 so I'm glad you, you chose the route of, of audio. 00:27:43.887 --> 00:27:46.327 You said it's the first time you ran it, running this for yourself. 00:27:46.577 --> 00:27:47.227 So what's, what, 00:27:47.242 --> 00:27:47.582 Nyasha: Mm hmm. 00:27:47.597 --> 00:27:50.177 Matt: have been some of the challenges you've been faced with 00:27:50.237 --> 00:27:51.837 running it solo for yourself? 00:27:51.837 --> 00:27:59.187 Yeah. 00:27:59.372 --> 00:28:03.542 Nyasha: and he's, he was also a engine, electrical engineer, major sound engineer. 00:28:03.542 --> 00:28:04.772 He was some type of engineer. 00:28:04.772 --> 00:28:05.212 I don't know. 00:28:05.602 --> 00:28:09.442 but he's like really good at like sound and like editing and things like that. 00:28:09.462 --> 00:28:10.092 I'm not. 00:28:10.112 --> 00:28:14.492 So editing was like, firstly, like a nightmare for me because I was like, Oh 00:28:14.512 --> 00:28:16.262 my God, I don't know how to flow this in. 00:28:16.262 --> 00:28:17.442 I don't know how to do transitions. 00:28:17.442 --> 00:28:18.922 I've never had to do this before. 00:28:19.322 --> 00:28:25.242 so editing was, It was hard, not as hard as I thought, but it was, it was hard. 00:28:25.342 --> 00:28:28.362 just things like little things like, Oh, your microphone's popping. 00:28:28.362 --> 00:28:29.502 I don't know how to fix that. 00:28:29.592 --> 00:28:31.862 cause someone always fixed it for me or like an echo. 00:28:31.862 --> 00:28:33.692 Like somebody was like, Oh, I'll fix that echo for you. 00:28:33.972 --> 00:28:37.002 Like this podcast was actually supposed to come out a month before. 00:28:37.592 --> 00:28:39.762 And then I would sit down and I would say, Oh my God, this is so 00:28:39.762 --> 00:28:44.512 much, I don't know what to do, but, once I got everything figured out 00:28:44.512 --> 00:28:47.722 for the most part, it was so fun. 00:28:48.262 --> 00:28:49.902 And I'm not just saying that because it's mine. 00:28:49.902 --> 00:28:51.352 Like I, it was so rewarding. 00:28:51.362 --> 00:28:55.932 Like I hadn't done anything in a really long time that was my own, that I put 00:28:55.932 --> 00:29:00.182 together myself, that I got to fix myself, that I got to say, I did this. 00:29:00.512 --> 00:29:02.062 And it was incredible. 00:29:02.062 --> 00:29:05.562 I don't think a TikTok would have, TikTok would have had that impact on me. 00:29:05.562 --> 00:29:08.572 Yeah, 00:29:08.817 --> 00:29:10.207 Matt: to pull in guests? 00:29:10.207 --> 00:29:13.147 If guests want to reach out, where can they go to, to either 00:29:13.147 --> 00:29:16.077 sign up or knock on your door to, to jump on the show with you? 00:29:17.252 --> 00:29:19.292 Nyasha: you can go to my website, niceyourgreen. 00:29:19.332 --> 00:29:23.212 com, forward slash the hopeful workspace and just, Hit the contact 00:29:23.252 --> 00:29:26.472 button and we can talk or you can, contact me on social media. 00:29:26.812 --> 00:29:30.862 nigh underscore the underscore creator on Twitter or LinkedIn. 00:29:30.892 --> 00:29:32.372 I am a LinkedIn learning instructor. 00:29:32.372 --> 00:29:35.602 So I have courses if you'd like to take my courses and help out 00:29:35.602 --> 00:29:37.702 a laid off WordPress developer. 00:29:38.522 --> 00:29:40.732 so yeah, you can reach out to me on any mediums. 00:29:40.752 --> 00:29:42.242 I'm super social. 00:29:42.262 --> 00:29:46.172 So I'm always super active on social media, even with three jobs. 00:29:47.372 --> 00:29:48.492 Matt: And last question. 00:29:48.752 --> 00:29:53.442 Do you want this to be the go to place for folks looking for work in the 00:29:53.442 --> 00:29:55.292 WordPress space or sharing their stories? 00:29:55.722 --> 00:29:59.282 What's the North star you're trying to create with the hopeful works workspace. 00:30:00.107 --> 00:30:01.867 Nyasha: I want them to share their stories. 00:30:01.897 --> 00:30:04.797 I, one of my, things before this, I wanted to do something 00:30:04.797 --> 00:30:06.277 like help people find work. 00:30:06.777 --> 00:30:09.077 again, it's just the amount of work that goes into that. 00:30:09.087 --> 00:30:11.777 It would have been more than I could handle, especially as a person 00:30:11.777 --> 00:30:12.947 who was also looking for work. 00:30:13.187 --> 00:30:16.957 So I just want people to come there when they're tired or they're mentally 00:30:16.957 --> 00:30:20.917 frustrated or they're thinking about giving up because it's not just you. 00:30:20.947 --> 00:30:23.367 It's a lot of us out there and we're not going to let you give up. 00:30:23.367 --> 00:30:24.877 We'll be that support system for you. 00:30:25.522 --> 00:30:27.522 Matt: I actually, thanks for hanging out and sharing your story today. 00:30:28.492 --> 00:30:29.152 Nyasha: Thank you.