You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thanks for watching!
What is up everybody and welcome to the
United States Department of Nerds where we
are for the people, by the people,
and of the people.
And joining me tonight is a man who
wants to live in your dreams just like
Freddy Krueger.
We got John McGuire with his Kickstarter
in our dreams awake.
Number three, John,
how are you doing tonight?
I'm doing awesome.
Thanks for having me on.
So, John,
let's get down to the nitty-gritty.
You have a book that, honestly, to me,
it's like two stories in one,
but it's the same story told two different
ways, and it's cool as shit.
Am I grasping the concept with that there?
Yeah, absolutely.
So basically,
In Our Dreams Awake is the story of
Jason Byron,
who is a painter in a fantasy world
where magic has taken over or has beaten
out technology.
And when he goes to sleep at night,
he wakes up and Jason Byron is a
gangster in a futuristic cyberpunk world.
and each time he goes to bed there
he wakes back up in the fantasy world
and so as he and the reader we're
not sure which world is the real one
which world is the actual dream world he
has a love in both uh one is
a woman named laura who's his wife in
the fantasy world and in the future world
it's a fish alien woman named femal in
so um
there are things in each that he both
you know he loves but there's also tension
that's happening and the hope is you know
from the beginning of the story to the
end we'll see as his world starts
spiraling a bit those worlds start
colliding into each other and then it
really becomes you know you have to make
a choice you know what's the what's the
world you want to live in um and
so that that's kind of it in a
longish nutshell
No, that's terrific.
And it's such a cool concept that I
personally have never seen done before.
So you really gave us something
Different.
So I got to ask,
so how did you come up with this
idea of the parallel dreams?
Because it's like the dude never sleeps.
He goes to sleep and he's immediately
awake in another, you know, world.
So which is real and which is the
dream?
But how did you come up with that?
Because it's really cool.
Yeah.
So this project's actually over a decade
old.
The co-writer and myself,
the co-writer's name's Egg Embry.
He we do a lot of like,
you know, ideas swapping and emails,
you know,
throughout the day at our day jobs or
whatever.
And I hit upon this idea of,
you know,
this guy who goes to sleep in one
world and wakes up in another and that.
And he's always looking at like,
how do we actually do the product?
And his thought was, well, what if.
we take that idea and we actually have
two art teams and you write one of
the dreams and I write the other dream.
And that way,
not only does the art show, hey,
something very different,
this is a different world,
this is a different feel,
but then also our writing styles are not
the same.
So he's gonna have a slightly different
voice, but at the same time,
we're editing each other,
we're smoothing things out to make sure
it's not completely crazy.
um but also trying to surprise each other
a little bit too you know when we
were writing our stuff so it kind of
echoes back i think a tiny bit to
you know like the old uh flip books
you know what marvel or dc might have
done back in the day where you get
one story with one one story with the
other and the other the other aspect of
that and one of the reasons it seemed
like a good idea at the time was
if for some reason an artist couldn't you
know finish this stuff or you know
disappeared on us or whatever it would
only impact half the book and then
potentially we could you know uh go get
somebody else to either finish the story
or or uh you know kind of start
fresh and we wouldn't get too far behind
now that's such a dope concept and you're
writing the uh the magic version of the
book right correct yeah i write the the
fantasy version and then egg is writing
the cyberpunk side
So I wish Egg was here with us
because I really want to know his purpose
of using the word Keith.
Well,
I actually I can tell you the story
behind that.
So we we role play online once a
week, kind of D&D style games or whatever.
Yeah, of course.
And one of our friends,
we actually did this one in person,
but one of our friends was
kind of not paying attention to what the
rest of the table was doing.
And for some reason,
he just started calling him Keith in the
middle of the game.
He's like, Keith, Keith, you know,
like pay attention.
That's not the guy's name,
but that's what he started saying.
And we also got a big kick out
of that.
We just started laughing about that.
And, um,
For some reason, he decided,
you know what, instead of cussing,
maybe he was channeling a little bit of
like Legion of Superheroes or Star
Galactica or something.
But he was like,
I'm going to make that kind of the
cuss word is Keith, just to say,
you know.
No, I mean, after about this,
about midway through the second book is
when I really picked up like, oh, dude,
he just turned to Keith off.
I'm like, oh,
I'm grasping the concept now.
I'm like, dude, I love that concept.
And the fact that it's born within an
inside joke amongst a group of friends
playing D&D is even better.
Right.
Because we all have a teeth in our
life.
And that's exactly right.
Like, you know, you just go, oh, yeah,
I get this.
And when I was reading the script the
first time that popped up, I went, oh,
I see what you did there.
OK, I got you.
No, that's probably the dopest concept.
Have you done Comic-Cons with the book yet
and had people come up to you and
go, dude, what the hell is Keith?
haven't had the keith aspect uh yet um
because normally you know they're taking
it home to read um i think i
think when my wife read it the first
time she kind of went like what is
what is this and so i explained a
little bit a little bit and she's like
okay and then you know she did the
eye roll like she normally does to say
you know at any of our stupid stuff
that we do but
um i have obviously done a few of
the the cons and and free comic book
day and those type things uh to try
to get the book out there um so
yeah that's that's really cool man i love
that kind of stuff and that that's
probably what the most heartfelt like just
what's the word i'm looking for here um
just something like an inside joke that
makes it mainstream into something else,
you know?
Right.
I think there's a word for it.
The word escapes me right now,
but that to me is just like one
of those, like, yeah, that's really cool.
And it's something that you have with
amongst your friends.
Yeah, absolutely.
So I know you said this book has
been a decade in the making.
Was there a specific film or book or
maybe a moment that kind of like made
you grasp this and like come up with
this concept?
Um, you know, I don't, the very,
what's so funny is I have our old
emails and it just was,
I think it was me spitballing, you know,
these ideas and this one kind of hits,
uh, where, you know,
sometimes on these email chains,
you'll go, what about this thing?
And the other person kind of go,
doesn't really respond to it.
You know, maybe they'll say, oh,
that sounds interesting.
And then we move on to something else.
And this one clearly grabbed egg and was
like, oh, we could do this, this, this.
As far as like shows or movies,
when I mentioned it to some other friends,
they pointed out there's a Twilight Zone
episode.
And I wish I could remember the name
offhand,
but it's where he's in a the main
characters in a courtroom.
And the courtroom kind of does a groundhog
effect.
They were like,
he goes to sleep at night and then
he wakes back up in that the courtroom
and everybody's in different place.
Like, you know,
the judge is one of the other actors
and whatever, which I'd never seen it.
But then I was like, oh, yeah,
that is kind of similar.
But I'm sure everything you could probably
trace everything back to just my love of
like Groundhog Day in general.
I think that's everybody really from a
certain generation of youth that grew up
in the eighties.
And that's just one of those movies that
it would come on what every Thanksgiving
or something like that.
And it's just like,
It's one of those I'll watch on repeat,
like Christmas Carol or Christmas story,
you know, where you'll shoot your eye out.
You know,
it's like it becomes one of those things
where it's like a must watch.
If it's on TV,
you stop what you're doing.
I'm watching this.
Don't bother me for the next hour and
forty five minutes.
Exactly.
There was one other thing that came out.
So after we kind of come up with
this idea,
there was a TV show called Awake that
literally was this idea.
I mean, in a lot of ways,
it's just instead it was a cop.
And it was,
I guess it was more maybe a sliding
doors type effect, you know,
but it was when he went to sleep
in one world,
he woke up in the other one.
And we actually briefly, I mean,
we talked about that show a lot.
We actually briefly even considered like,
we should do a podcast about that show.
And then it got canceled probably,
you know,
after the half season that it did never
went anywhere.
But yeah,
so it was definitely one of those things
where, what is it?
like when you start seeing other things
that are maybe similar or that kind of
feed into what you're doing, it's like,
I feel like I'm on the right track
with this, you know,
like you don't want to be,
you don't want everybody to be doing it,
but it's like,
it's nice when you see like, Oh,
somebody is doing something a little
similar,
which means I'm not crazy that this might
be a story.
Somebody might want to read, you know?
yeah no it's definitely one of those and
i gotta point out the art i love
the two different styles of art for each
story um i love that concept and the
covers on for all these books to be
fair absolutely phenomenal like it matches
with what's going on in the story nicely
like it it
this is spot on.
So whoever, who did your art and your,
your covers and stuff like that,
definitely they picked up the vibe of the
story and everything fits together really
nicely in the book.
So yeah.
Yeah.
You know,
the fantasy was done by Edgar Salazar and
we actually, I mean,
these pages are kind of towards that
beginning of that decade.
He did a lot of his work,
but fantasy story was pretty much done by,
you know a decade ago um and he's
now moved on to do marvel and dc
projects um he's done some like into the
spider verse and i want to say uh
the dynamite book that was with the public
domain heroes i can't think of the name
i think it was superpowers or whatever he
did a lot of that stuff and then
the cyberpunk uh side of things is roland
uh calnis and uh he we saw his
art i i
you know,
I do the thing where I go onto
Reddit or I go into some of the
Facebook book groups and, you know,
just I'll save posts from artists where
I'm like, Ooh, that's a cool style.
Right.
And when I came across his,
I immediately forwarded it on the egg.
And I was like, this,
I think this is the guy for your,
your side of the story.
So I'm going to be honest, the, um,
the dream punk, you know,
very like side of the book,
the egg is right.
And reminds me of a lot.
The artwork reminds me of a lot of,
uh,
early vertigo constantine yeah i can see
that definitely and just early vertigo in
general like that darker stuff they did
and um i was like i felt like
i was going back a little bit to
the old school vertigo days with the
sandman and constantine oh yeah i was like
oh i love this part of it but
then the um the fantasy side the magic
side of it reminded me a lot of
uh earlier conan
Okay, yeah, yeah.
The colors and the way the characters are
drawn and that kind of stuff.
So I was like,
and I love both of those things,
the older Conan.
The new stuff is good.
Don't get me wrong.
The reboot of Conan that's currently going
on,
This is great stuff.
The stories are really good from what I
hear.
I just, I don't know.
I'm such a fan of the old Conan
that it's hard for me to pick up
the new Conan.
Unlike with Hellblazer,
I've been such a huge fan of John
Constantine for so long that I don't care
what generation it is.
I pick it up and read it.
Sure.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just one of those characters for me
that he's one of my characters.
You know what I'm saying?
No, absolutely.
I feel like
My character like that is The Flash,
and it's Wally West specifically,
The Flash.
He's such a huge...
You can just about ask anybody who's a
Flash guy, and it's Wally West.
Like you said, it's kind of that...
what you were reading kind of when you
were in, you know, teenager or whatever.
Um, and I went back and, you know,
and I don't have his team Titans
appearances necessarily,
but I have from issue one that Mike
Barron, you know,
started that series post crisis, you know,
all the way up now to whatever issue
they currently are on in the nine hundreds
or whatever.
Um,
Um, and so, you know,
but I totally get that.
It's like rain or shine.
I, every month, if that book comes out,
I'm going to be getting it.
And, uh, you know,
I'm on board and I might mean I
have to suffer through some, you know,
subpar stories occasionally, but you know,
that's my guy.
And it's like, so for me,
I'm a big image guy.
Okay.
I love indie comics and well,
I can't even really say image is an
indie no more.
but i love what they do over there
they're they're um creator owned they do a
lot of stuff with the creators and that
kind of stuff and produces some fantastic
fantastic stories and then you know george
james tinian huge fan of whatever he's
writing i don't care what it is the
dude could just write whatever and i'm
gonna read it because it's got his name
on it and
can only think of a couple of things
like and that was his earlier stuff where
he was writing superheroes that i was just
kind of like this was me but then
you get into like the department of truth
of something that's killing the children
um he's writing exquisite corpses right
now um the deviant you know and you're
just like
These are phenomenal stains.
So for me, it's like,
ninety percent of my pulls
Oh, yeah.
And then Kickstarters and pure indies.
You know,
I read a lot of what y'all are
doing out there.
Sure, sure.
No,
I'm definitely like something's killing
the children is amazing.
I'm still I'm like two trades in so
far.
So I'm still kind of catching up to
that.
You're in that great arc right now,
though,
that that arc right there in the beginning
was.
I don't want to say call it my
favorite arc, but.
But it's definitely up there toward the
top of the arcs that they have done.
Okay, that's good to know.
That's good to know.
I'm glad to hear that.
They just released today,
or tomorrow actually.
Tomorrow's Wednesday, right?
Mm-hmm.
What's it called?
Their new spinoff series.
What's it called?
I think it's a muster hunter walks into
a bar or something like that.
Okay.
It, you know,
it's focusing back on the main character
again, which is really cool,
but I'm excited about that because it's,
it's new stories from something that's
killing the children.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's all.
So,
and then it's been off house of slaughter.
Like I,
I have everything from one through
wherever we're at right now.
I don't miss a copy of it.
Yeah.
And I, you know, I think that's the,
I mean, as a collector and everything,
it's one thing to, you know,
collect comics,
but it's like when you're into something,
when you're into a story or creator or
whatever, that's like, I don't know,
picking up that new comic on Wednesday is
like the best feeling when that you,
especially if you didn't know it was like,
you,
you kind of forgot it was supposed to
be coming out and you go to your
box or whatever.
And you're like, Ooh,
Okay,
I know it goes to the top of
my list, right?
It's funny you say it like that because
I literally – this part of my life
revolves around comic books and being in
the know, watching the FOCs.
I do all that stuff.
But even when I go in on Wednesday
to pick up my bots,
I'm still like –
it's like christmas i mean i know what
i got i know in the back of
my head i know what i got yeah
but it's like at the same time i'm
like there's always a surprise in there my
where my comic book shop will he's like
hey this one came in from ignition press
which to me ignition press is another one
okay is that's kind of like jumping onto
the screen again and they're putting out
some really great stuff right now
He's like,
check out this one from Ignition.
And I'm like, ooh, I missed this one.
I didn't see they announced this one was
coming out this week.
I thought it was like next month.
But hey, if it's coming out today,
I'll take it.
And they're doing a lot of really good
stuff right now.
Ani Press,
although they're losing Rick and Morty in
December.
Boom Studios is always phenomenal.
Dynamite,
what they're doing with the reboot of the
old classic stuff and what they're doing
with like Thundercats and that kind of
stuff.
I just saw an ad for they're doing
Sundar the Barbarian next, I think.
Yeah.
Yep.
Dynamite.
Yep.
Yeah.
You saw the same one I did.
I think they announced it yesterday.
Yeah.
I was like, wait, what?
Because it was one of those images that
popped up and I'm like,
what exactly am I?
Oh, okay.
oh that was me yesterday that was it
i had that same i'm like oh they're
doing thunder yeah and i was like i'm
talking to myself because nobody's at my
house my wife's at work or whatever and
it's just me i'm just like oh right
i'm like thank god i'm home alone
I can always blame talking to the cats.
Listen, Courtney,
I was telling the cats about Fundar.
They needed to know.
I was just looking around.
I was like, wait, did you see mine?
Because I got three around here somewhere.
One of mine is asleep in the chair
beside me.
Mine are downstairs probably.
We just had dinner a little bit ago,
so they're probably down there licking the
counters or the kitchen table or
something.
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Somebody dropped a little sauce somewhere.
Right.
Another good one,
one of the smaller companies.
I really like Mad Cave.
I read the Nottingham, you know,
all those.
And then I just picked up Dark Pyramid.
Dark Pyramid, yep.
They got a few other ones that are
really good.
I like it because here's what a lot
of people,
they love DC and they love Marvel.
I personally, on the other hand,
I want the blood.
i want the gore i want the spooky
and the scary and the just scary the
pants off me when i turn the page
right and you don't get that with dc
or marvel but image will do it oh
yeah mad cave will do it ignition press
boom studios dynamite all these other guys
they will well not so much dynamite
dynamite's really been focused they really
got their grips in on the um
The reboots with Space Ghost and
Thundercats and that kind of stuff.
And that's their niche.
And they are absolutely killing that game
over there.
So shout out to them that they're doing
what they're doing over there.
But yeah, Mad Cave.
They just did Pop Kill as well.
Oh, yeah.
Did you do Pop Kill?
No.
It's out on a trade paperback.
Check that one out.
I'm writing it down.
I also have the spot as well.
What's that one?
The keen spot, the keen spot.
All right.
Yup.
It's another,
you're just spending my money now.
You know that, right?
It's what I do.
Cause I, that's me every Wednesday.
I'll, I'll try a sampling.
I don't, I don't do DC.
Oh, I picked up.
I'll be picking up one DC book tomorrow.
Cause then the cat woman will be on
the cover of the absolute series.
Okay.
I'll pick that up just because I want
that.
There's one book by one artist who did
a cover for it.
And I just want his one cover.
Okay.
Fair.
That'll be my one DC book.
Unless, you know,
Zatanna has a new cover coming out or
something.
Then I'll get Zatanna because I love
justice league dark.
And yeah,
That's basically it for me,
unless it's a vertigo or something.
Yeah, fair enough.
But let's get back to you, man.
This is all about you.
So we see a love triangle of sorts
between Laura and FEMA.
So what's the emotional core of this story
for you?
Is it about love, identity,
Jason's sanity?
I think for me...
there's so many times in our lives,
it's kind of that path not taken.
It's the what if moments.
And I think this is obviously in a
kind of over dramatic form with the two
different worlds,
but it really is that like the grass
is the grass greener on the other side
type situation.
And at the, but at the core,
I do feel like it is a love
story.
It's about, you know,
how far are you willing to go for
the people that you love and how far
are they willing to go for you?
And what happens when you make mistakes
that may have impacts to them, you know,
throughout the story.
And it really hits home in issue three.
yeah well issue three is really you know
the first two issues it's a very hard
divide you know the first issue has the
first twelve pages or so are the fantasy
dream and then we switch to the cyberpunk
dream and then in issue two it's flipped
so we have the cyberpunk dream but issue
three is really where i think what i
said earlier where those those worlds are
starting to spiral in and and collide with
each other and so we cut from cyberpunk
to fantasy and back
Multiple times throughout the story to
show that maybe his sanity is being
tested.
Maybe the decisions he's made up to this
point weren't the best decisions.
He's kind of losing control in his world.
I love what y'all did in number three,
to be fair.
Anybody out there thinking about it,
number three hits it.
Like, it's, like,
you really start to see Jason,
I don't want to say losing his shit,
but he's on the verge of losing his
shit, it feels like, to some degree.
And, I mean, in my eyes,
he had this really lovely lady in the
fantasy world.
This alien...
fish girl in the, in the,
the dream pump world or the cyber world.
And it's like two very different things
really.
Yeah.
even though it's like this world's falling
apart.
Now this world's falling apart.
And you're like, damn, Jason, like you're,
you're in the shit right now.
Yeah.
You really just need to hold on as
tight as you can because this,
the world's going to buck you from it.
Almost, you know, look for, I can already,
I already know is going to be like
this really awesome, like,
twist in turns of,
and hopefully you do it like you did
number three, where you're like, oh,
you're here.
Yeah.
Something happens dramatic here and it's
like, bloop,
he slips back into the other world.
And yeah, that's exactly, you know,
basically the moment between two and three
and the moment that happens early in issue
three is really these catalysts for,
the more frenetic, you know,
changing of scenes, changing of worlds to,
to kind of, you know,
hopefully for the reader,
they start feeling that too,
where it's not, oh,
I'm going to get a huge block of
this.
It's like,
I'm going to get two or three pages
and then we're flipping and then I get
two or three pages and then we flip
again, you know, and it's like,
i really like that to be fair because
you're like as i'm turning the page well
i'm not turning the page as i'm scrolling
the page of this and almost like are
we going to be in the fantasy world
are we going to still be in the
cyber world and it's like oh we're still
in cyber and then all of a sudden
it's like the next scroll down it's like
something dramatic happened here so we're
right back into the fantasy world again
and i'm just like
I'm like, dude,
they are fucking killing it on this one.
Pardon my four-letter words there,
but he's killing it on this one.
No, we appreciate it for sure.
That's what...
What you're saying is what we were hoping
to convey.
So that helps to know that it did
convey that.
You absolutely nailed it on number three.
And the first two, like I said,
they set a perfect stage for what I
feel is going to be this really great
number four when y'all get ready to do
it.
So in number three is setting up a
perfect stage for like this big hell storm
of stuff that's going to happen in number
four.
Yeah, I almost want, you know,
like you saying that is like,
I want to say things and they are
all in part four.
And I'm like, no, no, no spoiling.
So let's dig into these two realities
because they're very different.
to jason i mean it's basically the same
story playing out for him in just two
different types of realities so in this
fantasy world we got the magi ruling tech
has been forbidden what really inspired
like that set for y'all to go with
that type of setting versus something else
yeah so i think um one of the
so one of the previous projects i worked
on
kind of in between all this was a
steampunk uh story called the gilded age
uh that i you know uh did four
issues of and we did a trade now
all that and so i think in my
mind i always kind of wanted to since
this technically predates that i always
wanted to kind of write something that was
a little more on that steampunk
you know technology magic slash uh world
and so which is a great genre by
the way yeah i don't think we get
enough steampunk in our lives no i would
agree on that for sure and i think
that that helped you know once we figured
out that that was the setting we wanted
then it helped us to figure out what
the world was and what did it mean
that if if tech was you know forbidden
or whatever how
how could we incite the incident,
so to speak, right?
What is the thing that's driving him?
And in the first issue,
we come to find out that it's this
telescope,
which is a piece of forbidden tech that
he has.
When you think about it,
you don't think of a telescope as tech.
Mm-hmm.
So it's one of those weird things where
I'm like, a telescope?
Then I'm like, well,
I guess in that time... Right, yeah.
And I think the way it's laid out
is at one point, this world,
the fantasy world,
was at one point technologically advanced.
Sure, yeah.
And then the ruling class of the Magi
kind of reverted it back and banned all
technology and that kind of stuff.
That's why they're more...
it looks more medieval times.
Yeah.
Which again would have been one of those
times where technology was going to start
coming back again.
Yeah, no, that's exactly right.
It, in my mind,
it's almost like if you had Da Vinci's
stuff, uh,
But then somebody put a stop to it
immediately.
Yes.
So you would have a few things that
might be buried in some hole in the
ground, so to speak.
But for the most part,
that's where advancement of tech kind of
ended.
And then they started going backwards a
little bit.
Yeah.
no it's really cool and we'll flip it
on the other side now so in the
cyberpunk world you got flooded cities
guild aliens this neon rebellion where we
got talking cats and that kind of stuff
which is really cool love that concept
because i know the cats were your idea
well so how did you visualize that
contrast because it is a drastic contrast
but there's that one you know tie in
line in there with not just jason but
the spaceship
Yes.
So that was the I don't you know,
I wish I remembered, you know,
who came up with that part of the
idea is what does he see in the
telescope?
But once it was said out loud,
he's going to see a spaceship that's kind
of from the future stuff that it just
crystallizes like, oh,
that's that's great.
Like that's the first moment of these two
worlds kind of starting to bleed a little
bit together as far as the cats.
that's all egg actually and what's weird
is he's really he's not a cat guy
he's not an animal guy really but what
happened is is for issue one when we
did the kickstarter for that one of our
uh reward levels was get drawn into a
comic and uh a backer reached out to
us and said listen i don't want to
appear in the comic but if you could
draw a couple of my cats into the
comic
And at that point, Egg went, well,
wait a second.
Why not just make them a part,
not just background characters?
We're going to make them legit like some
of the bad guys.
Dude, that to me,
as soon as I seen that,
I was like,
and I knew you were a cat guy.
I mean, I read your bio and all.
I do my due diligence for people out
there.
I read and find out what people do
and what their things are.
I read up on you.
Mm-hmm.
But I was like, dude, Talking Cats,
I love it already.
I'm sold.
Yeah.
Well, all he had to say was that.
And I was like, yeah, I'm down.
Let's do that.
That sounds great, man.
And I think it's, again,
it's one of those happy accidents,
I feel like,
when an idea is presented between one of
us.
And then you just go, Oh yeah,
that's the thing.
Like that was,
I don't want to say the missing piece,
but maybe the missing piece of this part
of the story, you know,
Bob Ross taught us anything.
It's nothing but happy little mistakes.
Exactly.
But yet, you know,
the other aspect of the cyberpunk side of
things was this is weirdly again,
because the project has taken so long to
get out there and
we had a very different artist originally
and he did, you know, I don't know.
He might've done total pages worth of art
and then fell off the face of the
earth.
Like we could not find them,
could not get ahold of him, anything.
So we can't really use that work.
I've heard of that happening to people.
Yeah.
And so at that point it was a
little, it was less cyberpunk.
It was probably just more futuristic,
you know?
And when we going back to Roland's,
when we saw his art,
it just crystallized that this is the mood
this is the the what you said earlier
like grit like gritty vertigo kind of
inspired feel to things still have that
neon um you know i i do love
how the neon is just kind of like
random yeah yeah and it's no real like
contrast to anything it's just random and
i love that about the neon that appears
it's almost like it's just all black and
then there's like these random neons
sprinkled in i love that concept that's
how he did that yeah yeah he he
died i mean it's just one of those
things we kept getting pages and we were
like oh okay wow which again you know
as a writer
it can be kind of a lonely time
to just be sitting at your desk and
not do, you know, not,
you're just churning out words or whatever
you don't really know.
But when artists send you pages, I mean,
we talked about Christmas day with like
your new comic day,
but when artists page comes in and it's
just like, wow,
like you kind of have to sit back
and go, that is amazing.
Cause like,
you know, at the end of the day,
I'm writing words on a page and somebody
else is having to interpret that and make
it come to that next level.
You know,
who's doing the lettering for y'all?
Are y'all doing your own lettering or is
that the artist doing your lettering as
well?
No, actually it's a guy named Alex Lugo,
who is a perfect shout them out, man.
Letters don't get enough love.
No, I love what Alex has done.
He actually helps also format the book for
publication and everything as well.
So he's kind of a jack of all
trades.
He's an artist on the side.
I think he said when I talked to
him last, he's like,
just let me know when issue four is
ready to go and I'll get started on
that.
And he's going to start working on some
of his own stuff too.
But yeah, he was one of those...
i've done some minor lettering you know on
like very indie stuff i eggs done some
minor but to get alex brings like a
level of professionalism that just ties
everything together in a great way i think
you know like and it really say lettering
can make or break a good comic book
and if you're looking at a comic book
and you flip the page and it's just
a whole bunch of words barfed up on
a page with no rhyme or reason
you're going to put that comic book down
and go, I'm not reading all that.
I have no, I like,
what is even this?
Yes.
I think too, it,
it helps sometimes just the flow,
you know, like again, you're writing,
I'm writing, you know, character dialogue,
character dialogue,
the way he is able to place it
on the page is,
Especially those pages where we probably
maybe had too much dialogue on a
particular page, right?
And he somehow,
through magic or witchcraft or something,
has figured out how to actually do it.
An experienced letter will make or break
your comic book.
And I tell people this all the time.
Because you don't want to misplace a word
box.
Because you could hide details that are
relevant to a...
a scene.
And you don't want to do that.
Because what happens later is when you get
to another page,
and they reference something back to that
other page into like,
I don't remember seeing that.
And if you're like me,
when I read a comic book,
I read the comic book,
I study the page,
I look at the details,
I want to see if there's an Easter
egg or something hidden within these
pages.
Because some artists like to fuck with us
like that they'll hide stuff.
Sure.
And then they'll call it back.
they'll make a reference to it and you're
like was that oh it was what he
was talking about okay i'm tracking what
they're picking they're putting down now
so that can again make or break a
good comic book yeah no you're absolutely
right on that we're lucky to have uh
alex uh
helping put our words on the page in
a readable way.
No, everything meshes so well together.
And it's one of those,
it makes it enjoyable to read because it
should be a fine balance of words and
art and stuff going on.
And he's nailed it.
Well, I'll have to pass that along.
He'll be happy.
I'm an egg to let them know that
they've in this cover for three with the
Magi on the cover.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I don't know who did that cover,
but that cover is amazing.
I love that cover.
So that's Jose Garcia.
And again, it goes back to that,
you know,
as we're doing these Kickstarters,
as I'm looking for project artists and
stuff, you know, a flag,
you
you know, certain posts,
whether it's on blue sky or Facebook or
whatever.
And he's one I'd flagged at one point
is like, maybe, you know, and he was,
I mean, he did this one.
It's taken a minute to this issue to
get out,
but I think he did this one over
a year ago.
And, um,
It was one of those things I think
he was running a sale, you know,
on like a cover piece.
And he had, you know,
X number of spots.
And so I immediately DM'd him.
I was like, hey, you have a spot.
I'm down, man.
I got real money.
He did a phenomenal cover for y'all.
So shout out to him because that was
a phenomenal cover.
As soon as I seen the cover,
I was like, that's the art I'm using.
I already knew.
As soon as I seen that cover,
I was like, I'm going with that one.
That cover is amazing.
I love the other cover too,
but just something about how the Magi look
on that cover really sets the tone.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I love the idea because, you know,
it's that weird thing, too.
It's like what, you know, he's like, well,
what do you want me to draw?
And it's like, well, I guess, you know,
maybe the bad guys, you know,
like we haven't really we focused on Jason
with issue one, you know,
with the flip the world, you know,
the two worlds.
And then we had.
the homage to uh the flash of two
worlds for the fantasy cover for issue two
and i was like we haven't really focused
on the bad guys yet and he just
again i got those pages or got those
initial sketches and i was like oh this
is this is cool man he absolutely nailed
the vibe of the entire book with the
villains and that's another thing villains
don't get enough love on covers
I agree.
I think sometimes we get so focused on
who the protagonist is,
we forget that without our antagonist,
we don't have a story, right?
I will say this.
DC currently has the Absolute thing going
on,
and they're releasing their villains
currently.
Those covers are some amazing covers.
So they're putting some focus on the
villains for once.
Yeah.
And the Absolute Joker in that series is
going to be...
He reminds me of the,
I don't know if you were ever into
Image Comics and Spawn.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But the Violator.
Oh, yeah.
The actual Violator.
Yeah.
That is what the absolute Joker reminds me
of.
Oh, yeah.
It's the Violator in Violator form.
All those early Image books,
I was on board with all of them.
I've got boxes upstairs that are just...
you know saying multiple issues you know i
don't know maybe fifty issues worth of
spawn at least savage dragon i never
stopped collecting spawn i have gone back
and i quit collecting for a very long
time and i thought spawn fell off the
map because at the time image was a
pure indie thing they had young blood
savage dragon spawn and then i came back
to comic books many years later and it's
like
holy shit, spawn's still a thing.
And I got the trade paperbacks because I'm
like,
there's no way I'm going to go back
and pay prices for, you know.
And then ever since, I've been like,
every week, if there's a new spawn,
I don't care if it's gunslinger spawn or
what.
I just always loved that universe.
Yeah.
No, McFarlane, I mean,
he created something that was, again,
different from anything else that was on
the stands at the time.
You know, and it was...
I mean,
obviously his art is what it is.
I mean, it's amazing in and of itself,
but just, yeah, those, those early days,
it really, all those, it was so,
there was such an excitement, you know,
there was a fever for all that.
And it was unique.
Yeah.
It didn't follow the rules of normal
superheroes.
Yes.
So that's why,
why it always stuck with me, I guess,
but yeah,
So personal question.
Okay.
Which world would you rather live in?
The mythical world or the mechanical
world?
So we got your magi or your aliens.
Which one are you going with if you
got to pick?
Yeah, I don't know.
I feel like it's so rough in the
future world.
that just a day-to-day survival is going
to be just difficult to do,
I probably would opt for the fantasy
because while I don't really have any
natural farming or whatever skills in my
real life,
I might be able to get by with
some trade or whatever.
But hey, in the cyberpunk world,
you get to talk to your cat.
That is true.
So, I mean,
you got to really think about that one.
Yeah.
Although my cats would just be like, hey,
give me another snack.
Right.
It's dinner time.
I just fed you.
No, it's dinner time.
Really?
Yeah.
So maybe not.
I probably would go with the fantasy world
because that would be the entire
conversations at all points with my cats.
Right.
Exactly.
I basically have those conversations
anyway, you know.
yeah so I gotta ask though as a
writer between you and egg how did you
keep both these worlds distinct but
connected you know as a from a theme
standpoint you know oh I think that all
starts like early on I you know I
don't want to say a pure outlining type
thing but we definitely talked about the
story we talked about the kind of story
we wanted to tell what we were I
mean we had
so many talks, whether it was, you know,
at dinners or,
or whatever about this project before.
So is egg a neighbor with you as
well?
Like, uh, well, he lives low.
He lives in the Atlanta area as well.
We actually went to high school together.
So I've known him for forever.
And, um, he, he does a lot, uh,
he doesn't really do a lot of comic
related things.
I basically dragged him back into it,
but he does a lot of role playing
related articles and zines and stuff like
that.
So, but yeah, yeah, we just,
we talked about,
we talked about the story for a long
time before I think we,
either of us put any words down on
the page and then it was just,
you know,
writing the script and then sending it,
you know,
kind of doing the script swap of like,
this is what I'm thinking.
And then just kind of doing an edit
where we,
It wasn't a grammar edit or anything.
It was really a story edit.
It's like, hey, if you're doing this,
then maybe we need to introduce this into
my story.
Or, hey, does this work for this?
To try to, again,
they need to be separate,
but they do need to have that slow
come together as well.
Yeah.
And so hopefully we manage that through
that process.
Y'all absolutely nailed it,
whatever the process was.
Because it's like I said in the beginning,
it's two separate stories telling almost
the same as that story that are starting
to collide or collapse onto each other
because Jason is either losing his mind
or...
Yeah, basically he's just losing his mind.
Fair, yes, fair.
But I really enjoy, because like I said,
it's different and I always enjoy the
different.
Yeah, yeah.
And the other thing with that is,
I said earlier that the writing can be
kind of a lonely thing if you let
it,
but when you're collaborating with a
co-writer,
you get those cool moments where
you almost want to one up each other,
you know,
he sends me something and I'm like,
Oh crap,
I got to step my game up now
to like show him so that when he
opens the next email, he goes, Oh crap,
I got to, you know, do the thing.
So there's a little bit of that like
gamesmanship going on too,
where it's just like,
you want to surprise them.
You want to, you know,
give them something to react to and go,
yeah, that's, that's a cool thread.
Let's make sure we pay that off somewhere.
I like it.
So for,
I know there's two separate artists as
well, one doing one side,
one doing the other side.
How is that working between you and Egg?
Are you and Egg both working with your
respective artists?
Or do you just send them like, hey,
here's my words, make it work?
I know some people who do that,
who prefer that.
Yeah, so the fantasy stuff,
it was kind of a... Again,
because that was written a while back as
far as the core pages,
and then the dialogue's been updated as
time has gone on.
And so it was a little bit of
a learning process, I think,
with myself and Edgar, where...
In theory, as a writer,
I want to write to the artist's strengths.
If the artist can't draw a horse,
I don't need to put horses in this
comic.
Luckily,
Edgar is pretty strong at everything.
He drew a horse.
I've seen it.
It was really damn good.
It wasn't even that.
I think as the parts of the issues
went along, it was...
hey, I don't want to, like,
it was still scripted, you know,
more DC style, you would say,
but there was definitely pages where I'm
like, here's kind of the beats, you know,
here's the big moments,
but you can kind of put them however
you need, you feel is best,
whether if it's a fight or if it's,
you know,
some more physical thing that's- A
struggle or something like that.
Because I think sometimes as writers,
it's like,
we think panel one to panel two to
panel three,
whereas the artist can be like, well, no,
this is more of a dance.
Like, I don't need gutters.
I don't need, you know, I don't need,
or maybe we can break a panel and
have him, you know,
punch through the gutter or something like
that.
And so I, at least on my part,
that was very much, again,
was learning how to do that,
but hopefully, you know, each issue,
you know,
you learn a little bit more of like,
what their strengths is,
what your strengths are and just play off
of each other.
As far as, you know, egg goes,
I think as much as anything,
like I said earlier,
he really adapted the story to that style
that Roland's was,
was showing to try to lean in as
hard as he could to Roland's strengths on
that stuff.
And, you know, and I think again,
you know, with the, with his dialogue,
obviously we talked about the Keith thing,
but,
just some of the mannerisms,
some of the way that Mike talks where
it's almost in some weird riddle of sorts
at times.
He was trying to do something, I think,
and I think he succeeds,
that's a little non-standard anyway,
to really make,
maybe to make you as a reader feel
It could be jarring,
but I hope in a good way,
you know, like bring you into that world.
He really did.
Where I really connected was the Keith
thing and the way he used the word
parliament.
Oh, yeah.
It's very rare that I talk words to,
you know, the writer or the writers.
But I really like the way he used
certain words for one thing or it's the
same thing, but yet different.
You know, like the word parliament.
I come here to parliament with you.
And I was like, oh,
I see what he did there.
And like I said,
I think I was midway through issue two
or maybe into early part of issue three
when I was like, oh,
Keith is he just didn't want to use
curse words, which is really cool.
And he's using the word Keith to denote
the F word.
Right.
And I was like, again,
that's a really cool piece of what he
just did.
And it works.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because you don't know what this dystopian
society has.
Maybe you can't say the actual curse words
there without getting the morale police or
something.
Who knows?
And that leaves it to your imagination as
the reader,
which I thought was another one of those
really cool pieces where you may not have
thought about it as the writer,
but as the reader,
I can interpret it that way, right?
Sure, absolutely.
Yeah.
No,
I think it works really well with what
it does.
And to give that, like you said,
it's using words in a slightly different
way or.
Parliament is something that we don't
really use in everyday language very
often.
So I think he definitely leaned into that
as well to say, okay,
if this is a futuristic world,
they wouldn't necessarily exactly talk the
way we talk.
And you can tell this world has been
through this shit and has been going
through this shit for quite some time
since the arrival of these aliens.
So some of these people may have never...
been educated.
Yeah, absolutely.
Maybe that stuff went away as they were
coming up.
So the way they use words may be
different than their true intentions
because they just never learned how to say
that word or what that real meaning of
that word was.
Yep.
So, nah,
he absolutely nailed that aspect of that
world.
But we're going to... Yeah,
let's dive into this part of it.
So...
There's a lot of what's the word I'm
looking for here.
I lost my words.
Um,
the emotional core of this story,
the search for identity, meaning,
reality fractures.
And so Jason is struggling between these
two worlds.
Do you see this as a reflection of
a creative life where writers live in like
imagination and half in reality?
Like, how did like, does that make sense?
No question.
I think it's a hundred,
you're a hundred percent on, on track,
man.
Like the,
I think that... So, you know,
on my little bio or whatever,
I say that I'm a civil engineer by
day and a writer at night.
And that kind of dualism, I think,
is my life.
There's the right brain, left brain,
kind of warring with each other at times.
My dad, you know,
was an engineer that went into banking and
whatever.
And my mom was a nurse,
but also was a teacher.
But she's the more artistic one.
So, like...
you know, even with them,
you can kind of see, okay,
that's where I get that.
That's where I get this.
Um,
and I also think there's so many times
in our lives where, you know,
I have a, you know,
some of my friends are very much,
they want to like worry about the past
they didn't take or the choices they
didn't make.
And, um,
I do that, too.
You know, I think we all do that.
Oh, absolutely.
And I think this story is maybe it's
some weird therapy session in a very odd
way to like try to work through those
things of can I be both, you know,
and is it OK if I'm if I
want to be one more than the other?
Right.
Like if I want to live in one
world more than the other.
Right.
Absolutely.
I literally
almost on a daily basis,
few times a day,
just go wish I was like,
I just want to quit my job and
interview comic book artists for the rest
of my life.
And I would be the happiest man in
the world.
Yeah.
And that's my internal struggle.
And I love my day job.
Yeah.
And that's,
I think that's the other thing I always
tell people, you know,
I probably like eighty five to ninety
percent of what I do, you know,
at the day job.
But yeah, I mean,
if if money was not a factor and
all that stuff,
I would love to be a writer,
you know,
full time and do that thing that that
would be sitting right here at this desk
creating content.
Yeah, exactly.
So I I think at its core,
it's really born out of that.
You know, am I on the right?
Excuse me.
Am I on the right track?
and you know is this what I'm supposed
to be doing um and just trying to
just you know kind of figure things out
as best I can and I think maybe
I hope maybe that's what egg saw when
he saw that initial email you know without
me specifically saying it maybe that's
what grabbed him because I feel like he
has the same thoughts and ideas you know
that that duality of
I got to go work to pay the
bills and do the thing.
But like,
what I'd really love to do is this
other thing, you know, right here.
No, I think that as a,
from a creative standpoint,
no matter what that creative is,
whether it's writing comic books,
drawing comic books,
sitting here as a podcaster,
interviewing guys about comic books.
I think it's,
we're all in that same boat.
And yeah,
Dude, that hits very close to home,
and you nailed it perfectly.
So, yes, absolutely.
So staying within kind of this realm of
philosophical shit right now,
we're dropping some.
We're getting deep in it.
That's right.
So Jason is struggling between these two
worlds.
Wait, no, that's not the one.
It's the next one.
So the philosophical undertone.
I knew I was setting myself up for
the next question,
and I just went to the wrong one.
So what is real?
And how do you balance those heavy ideas
without losing the story's momentum,
which I can go ahead and tell you,
you haven't lost the momentum.
I think you're nailing it perfectly,
but kind of like you're on issue three,
dropping tomorrow on Kickstarter.
How do you not lose the story between
the two?
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
What is actually real?
I mean, I know y'all know,
but I don't want to know until the
next part.
So I think that's the core of, again,
as we were developing a story,
as we were trying to figure out,
you're building on this thing of,
and at first, Ignore Myself, I think,
had an idea of which is the real
world, right?
And it didn't, I think at the beginning,
it doesn't necessarily matter which is the
real world initially.
yeah it's as time goes on and these
things these uh these dreams start to
become nightmares that him making a choice
is is the the ultimate um i think
uh piece of the puzzle right and that
we make our own realities at the end
of the day as people and so
you can live in a dream world and
you can, you know, uh,
ignore your day to day stuff,
or you can like try to figure out
a way to make it all work within
your, the life you've chosen.
And I,
so I think that's part of it is
just trying to be true to that idea
of how do we get,
how do you live a life that, um,
just you're doing what you're wanting to
do.
at the same time you're providing for your
family, you're, you're, you're, you know,
with your, you know,
you're able to have friends and all that
good stuff.
And by the same token, you know,
obviously we've put these in these
fantastical situations to try to,
you know,
I think the best sci-fi is always ones
that like you can,
go down to the board,
down to the core and go, Oh,
this is a story about this, you know,
like, yeah,
they're on a distant planet and they're
fighting whatever monster or whatever,
but like really this story is about this.
And I think for us,
that was what we were trying to get
back to it at every point was like,
this story is about choices and uh living
your life to the best that you can
and choosing the life that you want to
live at the end of the day not
having that life thrust upon you and i
think that core line hopefully runs
through the first three issues and when
the fourth issue does come out that it
you know it kind of wraps up a
bow on everything to say
you know, these are the choices he made,
but he made those choices.
Yeah, no,
that's a perfect segue actually into what
I'm about to ask you is that,
do you think readers are meant to choose
which world is real or is ambiguity part
of that message?
I think I hope that like,
there's at least some thought in their
head of like,
I think this might be the real world
or this might be the real world.
Um,
The only thing is I hope they don't
get too caught up in that aspect of
things, you know,
where if they're not right at the end
of the day in their choice,
they don't let that go.
Well, you know, I had it as,
you know,
option A and it was option B.
And so I feel like I'm let down
by the ending.
You know what I mean?
And you know what?
And this is how I took it is.
I want the surprise at the end of
the book.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So for me,
I'm going to be happy either way.
I mean, in my head, I'm like,
now that I've read issue three,
I kind of want it to be this
other way,
but I wouldn't be mad if it was
this way because he ended things kind of
like the way he wanted to.
So I'm like, but at the same time,
I'm like,
I really just want that surprise at the
end of the stick, you know?
Yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
So, and again,
I take comic books differently than some
people.
Some people take the stuff literal and
they're straight like, well,
it should have been this.
Right, yeah.
Tell me, make me happy.
You know what I'm saying?
At the end of the day.
So,
let's jump into the actual Kickstarter
campaign itself.
In Our Dreams Await number three goes live
tomorrow.
I'm guessing around lunchtime.
Yeah, that's right.
Right around lunchtime.
Perfect.
So for returning backers,
what can they expect from this issue?
I mean, I know what they can expect,
but let's hear it from your mouth.
So, you know,
like we've been talking about,
this is really the...
Between issue two and issue three is kind
of the moment everything flips.
And that world,
those two worlds that we've started to get
to know and we've seen like the struggles
that he's having,
this is where literally the dream is
starting to become nightmare.
And...
Now,
you've just got to hold on tight to
whatever world he can grasp onto, Jason,
as that thing continues to spiral out of
control and those two worlds keep bleeding
into each other.
And so that's really what issue three is
going to offer.
And hopefully now it's just, you know,
we're on the roller coaster ride and we're
just hanging on.
know i'm on it i am i'm not
gonna i am on that roller coaster in
the front seat because it like the way
everything's starting to collapse into
each other now is like truly a roller
coaster because you you're like now you're
on the end of your seat going i
need these dudes to do number four kind
of quickly because i want to know
you know what i'm saying absolutely and i
hope that some of it was when people
who come back to this project will go
this feel the same way about it because
i was definitely on board like number
three if one and two if people felt
that was kind of slow number three they're
in for a damn roller coaster so and
you know the oh i'm sorry go ahead
no no go ahead you were gonna all
i was gonna say was is you know
the other thing is is and as you
know issue three is done
Right.
So like when we launch tomorrow,
when the campaign's over, you know,
the next day or whatever,
they're going to get digital copies out.
So this isn't a case where you got
to wait for, you know,
months and months and months for us to
finish the thing.
And, you know, even issue four,
we're ninety percent through that, really.
I mean,
you only have a couple of pages left.
So, you know,
we're really we're really excited
to kind of get this story out there.
And I, you know, my hope is,
is that if you were on board for
the first two issues,
obviously I want you to come back.
My hope is,
is that through this and through talking
to people like you who are gracious enough
to have me on that,
like a few other people will pick up
the book and, you know, and go, wow.
Okay.
Yeah.
I want to see where this goes.
I want to see how this ends.
What's the story, you know,
what's the full story.
so i always like to ask whenever i
have people on and they're like this is
your third book of this series is this
a good starting point for people or would
you recommend going back when this kicks
off to get one and two as well
and then enjoy number three yeah i sadly
that's probably the one downside is i do
think you need to get one two and
three together um
You know, and, you know,
the the nice thing is if you're not
one hundred percent sure as far as
physical and you don't want to spend,
you know, for that reward level,
you will have a digital level.
That's a catch up level.
So, you know,
you can definitely be literally the next
question.
Do you have a catch up level for
people?
Yeah.
We definitely do because I know just as
a backer of other Kickstarters that I'll
discover issue three and then I'm like,
oh, well, this looks cool.
I want to read what happened before to
get the full story because I think it
would be very odd, I think,
if you picked up issue three and just
read it cold.
It would be the weirdest thing ever,
I think.
Yeah, I think people would...
That's where I was about to say,
people are going to be like,
what the hell is this?
But no, it would definitely be a trip.
But I would tell you,
number three is a fun trip if that's
what they decided to do.
Yeah, yeah.
So what kind of rewards or exclusives are
you going to be offering on this campaign?
Are you bringing something new to the
table?
Or are you just going to, hey,
we got the digitals and you got the
books, which is cool.
yeah at the core that's kind of where
we don't have a lot of extra flashy
stuff um yeah we obviously have the the
two covers we have the fantasy cover and
then we have the cyberpunk cover that's uh
inspired by a six million dollar man uh
style phenomenal covers but i will say the
fantasy cover won me on this one
Yeah,
we have obviously catch ups where you can
get we still have some copies of the
variant covers from issues one and two.
And then probably the biggest one is just
we have the drawn in a comic.
So that's really when I say issue four
is ninety percent done.
That's kind of the last ten percent that
in the lettering.
Yeah.
To get done.
And so if you have that, you know,
if you wanted to be in the comic,
if you want to put your cat in
the comic as well, you know,
there is that opportunity.
Right.
To do it.
So, yeah.
One last shot.
Yeah, exactly.
So, yeah, we try to, you know,
and I'm still frustrated.
even though this is the third issue and
I've done a couple other Kickstarters,
this is each time I'm trying to figure
out the sweet spots of things.
Right.
And what I'm always looking at other
people's Kickstarters, you know,
they say steal like an artist.
It's like, Oh, they did this thing.
Oh,
I'm going to make a note about that.
You know, does this apply to this?
So,
but you don't want to dig yourself too
whole into a hole too big because at
the end of the day,
you do too much,
your bottom line is going to suffer.
And you want to have enough equity going
forward.
That way, when you do number four,
it's not as stressful on the pocketbook.
Yes, absolutely.
Although I will say, you know, this one,
we're,
we're just looking initially for five
hundred dollars.
Obviously we want more,
but that's the cover of the print cost
really.
And honestly, that's not a bad deal.
Five hundred dollars to print.
that's, that's honestly pretty good.
And who do y'all go through for your
print?
Are you doing someplace local there in
Atlanta or?
No, it's a comic impressions, uh,
was the first two comic or first two
issues went through them.
And, uh, I've, I've had a good,
I mean,
so far I had a good relationship with
them.
You know, uh,
they seem to turn around things really
quickly.
The only,
the only slight question mark and it has
nothing to do with them.
It's we're launching this in October and,
And, you know,
it'll end in early November and then we
have the holidays.
So I've tried to, you know,
as far as like on the rewards,
when thing, you know,
when the actual print copies will be sent
out.
I try to give myself the slight buffer
because I know the holidays are there and
that's going to slow everything down ever
so, you know, so much.
Yeah.
And right now, I think if, you know,
USPS always has their issues.
I know like from one of my previous
interviews I had on,
Greg, Duke Electric, nerd in the sky.
His Canadian postal is currently on strike
again, I believe.
Oh, wow.
So his campaign just closed,
and he can't even get books out of
Canada currently, I think.
Yeah.
So there's always that to think about.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's, again.
That and the prices have gone up
ridiculously.
Yeah.
So it's all those little things are like
the learning experiences that, you know,
I, I always want to, you know,
it's the thing you always want to under
promise and over.
Over deliver.
Yeah.
So if I tell you that it's going
to be March before you get your comic
and we get it to you in January,
I think that's only going to be a
positive, you know,
but I want to make sure that I
don't hose myself on.
Yeah.
And people can, it can happen quickly,
you know?
Yeah.
Well, on the Gilded Age,
when we did the trade for that,
we actually had a Chinese printer and it
never occurred to me because I'm an
American and I just live in my own
American world that Chinese New Year is
kind of big over there.
And so literally, just like literally,
yeah, they the whole month basically.
And the books were ready to be shipped.
but they,
because they basically took the month off,
they didn't get to the port.
And I just, again,
luckily I'd added some buffer in there,
but it ate all the buffer up,
you know?
So, um, and it just wasn't on my,
it was never on my list of things.
Like I need to make sure that this
is done before this date, you know?
Yeah.
And, and,
Again, that goes back to lessons learned.
And do you have any advice for anybody?
You're kind of a...
You're getting up there into the semi-pros
of Kickstarters now.
This is your fourth one going in.
Sure.
Like...
Do you have any good advice for guys
who are considering going to Kickstarter
route?
Because I know a lot of people kick
this can and it seems like I see
these great concepts pop up online,
whether it be Instagram or Facebook,
and I love their concept,
but they're like, well, I'm pitching it.
Like, dude, why are you pitching it?
Go to the Kickstarter and just do it.
Yeah.
Let people fund your project.
Sell your product to people.
And I know that's really hard for some
people to do.
But what advice do you have for people
who are kind of on the edge of
their seat?
Like,
do I want to do a Kickstarter or
do I still want to kind of kick
this to people and see what they say?
Yeah.
So one thing I would say, but,
you know,
I don't think this is an absolute.
It's an absolute for me as best as
I can make it.
is I want to have the project done
before I actually launch the Kickstarter.
And the big reason is the stress.
You already have stress doing the
Kickstarter.
You always have the imposter syndrome guy
sitting on your shoulder.
The last thing I need is then
know and i'm not trying to blame anybody
but what if the printer you know takes
an extra month to get the thing what
if the the artist you know those last
couple of pages it takes an extra few
weeks to get in you know these these
things can snowball on you and i don't
want to be sitting there thinking i'm
letting down the backers because again at
the end of the day i'm the one
launching it it's my project you know
And there has to be a trust that
you build up hopefully between you and the
backers because they're giving you money
for something they haven't seen, you know,
necessarily seen,
especially if it's your first thing.
So that would probably be my number one
thing.
And I would highly suggest it for anybody.
And then the other thing kind of goes
back to what you're saying, though.
Don't pitch it.
Let's do it.
you know,
like the difference between somebody who
has written some something and somebody
who has not written something is the
words, the end basically on the, you know,
at the end of the page.
Right.
So like,
So many times, especially early on,
it was like,
I can't do it for whatever reason.
And some of them are legit, right?
Obviously,
money at the end of the day is
one of the biggest things.
Yes, money and time.
Yes.
But if you can find a way, heck,
if you could figure out a way to
get the first five pages and a cover
done, right?
Can you can you scrounge up enough money
for that?
And then maybe that's what you take.
Now, again,
that goes against the having the whole
thing done.
But, you know,
maybe you can figure out if I had
a five hundred dollars,
I could get the rest of this done.
If I had a thousand dollars, you know.
Yeah.
How much blood and sweat are you willing
to put into it?
You know, as well.
Right.
At the end of the day, you know,
if you're going to be going into it
and you're not you have, you know.
not putting nobody on blast i would never
do that but if you're coming into it
and you got half a book and a
freaking banging cover and you need that
that kickstarter to really finish that
book start that kickstarter yeah i i i'm
interviewing a guy in two weeks that's the
boat he's in and i'm hoping what we're
bringing to the table when he comes to
the table hey i've read what he's got
amazing stuff like i'm like dude yeah i'm
glad you're doing the kit started to get
this out because it's it's a a cool
spin on a superhero character that i
really like i was like this is new
it's a little different yeah i'm like i'm
glad you're going this route because you
need to get this finished
The story's done.
It's just the art that he needs to
get done.
So the Kickstarter is going to help him
get the art done and get that book
out to people.
And I'm just like, dude,
I love this concept.
So again,
we'll talk to him in like two weeks,
but he's one of, like you just said,
he's one of those guys where he's got
a great initial concept.
The half of the book is done.
The art looks great.
The story is great.
And yeah,
Jump into that Kickstarter, get it funded,
and get it done.
Yeah.
No better time than the present.
Yep.
Get her done.
Yep.
So.
I'm going to ask,
how important has the community been,
like reviewers and podcaster fans,
been to your success with these books?
I know when you initially emailed me,
you were like, hey,
would you do a review?
And I'm like, dude,
I do podcasts and I give you the
review, basically.
And I've done that for what,
an hour now?
Yeah, absolutely.
I've sung the praises of the book.
And yeah,
I could type you out a review,
but I think this is more personal.
No, I think you're absolutely.
And like I said, you know,
I'm dipping my toe into the podcast side
of things, trying to get these, you know,
conversations going.
But, you know, I feel like every,
every person that's taken the time to do
a review to even do some kind of
just spotlight, you know, share the link.
I mean, every single one of those,
you know, whether I can directly measure,
oh, that's definitely a sale, you know, I,
you know, I don't necessarily know,
but
Again,
my hope is that to get this in
front of people,
to get them to read it,
to get them to buy in and that
they'll be excited when issue four drops
next year and kind of go that way.
Because at the end of the day,
Ag and I are doing this because we
love comics.
We love the story.
And we want other people to like and,
you know, love the thing that we've made,
which is always a weird thing to say.
But like, no, but it's not, though.
You want to share your passion with
everybody around you with what you've
done.
And y'all put together this phenomenal
story that and to be fair to everybody
out there right now.
Very few people have done this kind of
story and executed it to the level that
y'all have executed it at.
Well, I appreciate that.
Those are very kind words.
And that's, you know, that's what we hope,
right?
Like,
we hope that somebody reads the story,
they really enjoy it.
And, you know,
And if that happens and at the end
of the day, they say, hey, you know,
this was something that moved me or
touched me or, you know, whatever.
That's kind of the goal.
And so, you know,
getting back to the original question,
any person that has that has shared it
in some way or or put even the
tiniest spotlight on the book.
I mean, I you know.
If any of them came to me,
I would do whatever I could to help
them out.
So sharing things, putting the word out,
I feel like that's the part of the
community that I try to do whenever I
can.
And certainly during the course of the
Kickstarter,
occasionally doing an update that says,
hey, by the way,
there's this thing over here too that you
might like.
because so that's literally what i do as
your kickstarter is going as i see your
post come across social media i
immediately re-blog it or reshare it or
whatever you want to call it yeah and
then i add it to my story like
hey check this book out you know and
like us i told you before we went
on air is if you're on my podcast
you you've a
You're welcome because you're now a member
of the Council of Nerds.
And B, if I don't like this shit,
it's not coming on here.
You know what I'm saying?
No, fair enough.
I mean, again, we all have limited time,
right?
So that's why I totally appreciate it too.
You're getting my seal of approval at the
end of the podcast.
You know what I'm saying?
So, I mean, for me,
I've never said no because I've never been
delivered a product or a project where I
was just like,
might want to rethink this one i've never
had that happen yet i'm sure it's going
to it's bound to happen someday but i've
been very lucky and very blessed in the
fact that when people present me things
either it's new and i love the concept
or it's just so well done that how
can i say no to it right yeah
or you're an established individual within
your what you're doing you know and i'm
like
Let's feature them.
And that's what we're doing here tonight
with you, John.
But we're going to start wrapping this up.
But since it's October,
spooky season is upon us.
We're going to end this tonight with some
spooky twist before we let you plug your
social media.
And since In Our Dreams Awake is all
about dreams,
do you believe dreams can predict the
future or reveal truths about us?
a thousand percent yes absolutely like uh
i mean i feel like everybody has that
story of uh an aunt or a grandmother
or somebody who had some dream that you
know kind of predicted something
and not necessarily always bad but a lot
of times those stories are like i i
had this thing and then it turned out
this person was sick with the flu and
you know or whatever um yeah and so
i've i have you know there's been a
couple of those in uh my family tree
that i feel like uh makes me think
it makes me think it has to be
true.
And I kind of want to live in
a world where it's true,
even if it's not true.
Right.
A hundred percent.
Everybody's got that one on in their
family that you swear to God is a
witch.
Absolutely.
I said, which with the W people,
I heard it.
I can back.
Everybody's got one of those other ants.
That's one of those two other ones too.
So,
so now the weirdest dream you've ever had.
And not those ones from your teenage
years, John.
No, no.
This is going to sound so bizarre,
but dreams are like that.
That's the point.
I think the weirdest dream I ever had
was when I was very young,
it was like a recurring nightmare that
really didn't make any sense,
but it was numbers.
I don't know,
like from the old Sesame Street style
where they were like puppets or Muppets.
Yes, yes.
And they were basically like lemmings
going off a cliff.
And that was like the big part of
the dream was I couldn't stop them from
doing this.
And, you know,
it's I don't know if that was I
was on my way for my engineering degree,
even at like five or six.
But that number is in the head.
I mean, that's, you know,
over forty years ago.
And it's still in my brain that like
that was something that kind of my my
youth just I don't know.
I don't want to say scarred me,
but it was just a recurring little
nightmare.
No, never scarred me, too.
But it was my algebra teacher.
But how about you?
Do you have a recurring something like
that?
For me,
it would be like I always had the
fallen dream where you're just fallen.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And it always would happen like in
different ways.
Like I was spinning on the merry-go-round
really fast and I fell off and I
just kept falling.
And for me,
it was always that that concept there.
Yeah.
But it was the only thing that was
like the same every time is that I
was fallen and I would never stop falling
and then I would just wake up.
But I always got to the fall differently
every single time.
Right.
So whether I accidentally fell off a cliff
or I was hiking and I fell into
a cave is just the I would just
keep falling.
So that was for mine.
And I know that's weird.
And I'm sure other people have one similar
to it.
But for me, it was always the fall.
And how I got to the fall was
always different.
So Jason Byron is our main character in
In Our Dreams Awake.
If he had a Halloween costume,
what would he be?
Well, I think that...
In some weird ways,
he's kind of wearing them in the dreams.
But which one is the costume?
I know.
I feel like on the fantasy side,
he would probably go as a Magi.
and dress up and maybe try to live
that life for a hot you know minute
um with the uh with jason and the
cyberpunk i mean he'd have to like go
as a fish alien i mean that way
you know he can't pull off the cat
so yeah yeah no he's too tall for
that but like yeah i think going as
a fish alien i like it i like
it so
To wrap up our Halloween Twisted questions
here,
what is your all-time favorite horror,
sci-fi,
or fantasy story that really inspired you
to write novels and to write comic books?
You can have more than one.
Yeah.
So I think that one of my all-time
favorites just of the horror genre is
Scream.
And I love the fact that they
deconstructed the whole horror genre while
still being very true to all of it
as well.
And I think that was one of those
movies when I watched it,
I think opened my eyes to like, oh,
you can do you can look at things
from a different angle than everybody
else.
And that's a good thing, just because,
you know,
so many times it's very easy to just
do the same thing as everybody else.
I feel like that's one of those that
kind of keyed off.
And then the other thing would be Stephen
King's The Dark Tower.
which just periodically... Not the book.
The book, not the TV show.
The movie was horrible.
No,
and I haven't watched that because my
brother basically said, shook his head.
It was done horribly.
Great concept,
but they just didn't do it right.
Yeah, the series itself,
the book series itself, I mean,
it's one of those things where after you
read a book, you go...
both in a good and a bad way.
It's like, why am I even doing this?
Should I break my fingers?
Cause I can't write that.
But it also, again,
gives you something to aspire to.
It really does.
And what's so great about that series is
you can go from that series into branches
to all his other books.
And what's really cool about it is his
son's books can fit into all of it
as well.
Yeah.
I,
and what's funny is I've only done really
the dark tower and a couple of the
other books that he's written,
but I have read horns by Joe Hill
and I've read some of Joe Hill shorts.
So probably like,
I know they did the TV series based
off of it, but I don't think it,
even that it was, it was good,
but it didn't do the book justice.
Yeah.
That's definitely one on my,
my short list that I need to get
to reading.
Okay.
But yeah,
I think those are probably two of the
keys.
I mean, everything I read,
I try to take in and see how
it affects me or whatever.
Now, follow up to the Scream.
Where should they have stopped?
Well, weirdly,
I'm excited about the new one that's
coming out next year.
Yeah, I thought this last one was like...
excellent in a lot of ways that it
just, it hit me just right.
Like I didn't see it when it came
out.
It was probably six months later because I
kind of felt, maybe I felt like, okay,
we've kind of done this.
And then I watched it.
I was like, oh wow.
Okay.
Like y'all really stepped it up.
So if I was going to stop it,
I would probably say though after four and
the reason for that.
Yeah.
The reason I say four is
And this is where I want the alternate
ending to be the thing where spoiler alert
for a twenty year old movie.
She the the cousin or whatever that's
basically behind everything.
I want to see a movie where she
got away with it.
I mean,
how cool would it have been screen five
to just feature her in this weird like
celebrity thing?
And then kind of what they did with
they tried to go back and do that
with Saw.
yeah yeah a little bit like that yeah
but that i i feel like both it
was a missed opportunity but i still
really enjoyed the fourth one as well so
i mean i've watched them all it's one
of those where i'm like i would have
probably stopped at three yeah fair but
let's close it out john where can
everybody find you in go
uh so my website is john r mcguire.com
so i try to post for his newsletter
yes absolutely i try to write a weekly
blog on there um and uh try to
post any of my work there so if
you happen to like anything you can
definitely go and purchase it uh let's
let's cheat over here to see
what the actual other things i'm on x
uh under john mcguire i'm on blue sky
uh john mcguire and then instagram john
mcguire forty um i'm a little slacker on
instagram but i'm trying to get better i'm
trying to get better about posting things
because i do i am trying to do
a visual medium so it makes the most
sense to be you know more active on
there
To be fair to Instagram is where I
do a lot of my sharing for the
Kickstarters and stuff like that.
I do a lot on Blue Sky as
well if people are on Blue Sky.
But you have to really dig on Blue
Sky to find it.
But Instagram is like right in my face.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's pretty much it.
John,
I can't thank you enough for coming on
In Our Dreams Awake, y'all.
Phenomenal, phenomenal book.
Drops tomorrow on Kickstarter at
lunchtime.
Go give it some support.
It's a phenomenal, phenomenal book.
If you're into dreams and twisted tales
where it's the same dream,
total two different ways,
but done very eloquently,
and it's tremendous.
It's...
If you want something different to read,
I highly,
highly recommend In Our Dreams Awake.
And on top of everything, John McGuire,
In Our Dreams Awake,
we'll throw in Egg too because he's a
part of this whole thing and all the
artists and everybody else,
is USDN approved.
Awesome.
So there it is.
And John, again,
welcome to the Council of Nerds.
And with that, everybody,
we'll see you back in a couple of
weeks.
Unless I get another interview lined up,
which maybe I will.
With that, everybody, y'all be good.
And we are out of here.
Thank you again.
We're going to do the outro and then
we'll.