Gene Kim on developer experience and AI engineering

In this episode, we’re joined by author and researcher Gene Kim for a wide-ranging conversation on the evolution of DevOps, developer experience, and the systems thinking behind organizational performance. Gene shares insights from his latest work on socio-technical systems, the role of developer platforms, and how AI is reshaping the shape of engineering teams. We also explore the coordination challenges facing modern organizations, the limits of tooling, and the deeper principles that unite DevOps, lean, and platform engineering.

Mentions and links:

• Phoenix Project
• Decoding the DNA of the Toyota Production System
• Wiring the Winning Organization
• ETLS Vegas
• Find Gene on LinkedIn

Discussion points:

• (0:00) Introduction
• (2:12) The evolving landscape of developer experience
• (10:34) Option Value theory, and how GenAI helps developers
• (13:45) The aim of developer experience work
• (19:59) The significance of layer three changes
• (23:23) Framing developer experience
• (32:12) GenAI’s part in ‘the death of the stubborn developer”
• (36:05) GenAI’s implications on the workforce
• (38:05) Where Gene’s work is heading

Creators & Guests

Host

Abi Noda

Abi is the founder and CEO of DX (getdx.com), which helps engineering leaders measure and improve developer experience. Abi formerly founded Pull Panda, which was acquired by GitHub.

What is Engineering Enablement by Abi Noda?

This is a weekly podcast focused on developer productivity and the teams and leaders dedicated to improving it. Topics include in-depth interviews with Platform and DevEx teams, as well as the latest research and approaches on measuring developer productivity. The EE podcast is hosted by Abi Noda, the founder and CEO of DX (getdx.com) and published researcher focused on developing measurement methods to help organizations improve developer experience and productivity.