I'm Travis Bader and this is The
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With remembrance day upon us, I felt
this was a fitting episode to release.
I speak with a good friend about how, as
a Canadian, he joined the British army, his
experiences doing SAS selection and more.
So I'm sitting down with Jason Budd.
Jason, I've known you longer than I
haven't known you.
You were over here in the office and we're looking
to putting together some navigation courses that
would be of value to the Silvercore members and
to the general public and I figured while you're
here, let's just jump on the podcast here cause
you've got a really interesting background.
You did a little over 10 years in
the British army,
Actually just short of 10 years Trav.
Just short of 10 years.
But, you know, 10 years.
It felt like longer.
Yeah.
I always said it took two weeks to get in actually,
this is back in 99.
So they, it was like a fast track program.
Yeah.
But then I said it always took me 10
years to get out.
I love it.
Yeah.
Now, the fast track program.
So you're a Canadian citizen and born and
raised in Canada and you ended up over
in the British army.
Yeah, I guess my background prior to that
was like, we actually met when we were in cadets.
That's right.
And it was, I think, a Vernon camp.
That's right.
I remember that.
I was in Alpha company and you're in the rifles
with Patrick Golden.
It was actually Alpha company, then Bravo
company, and then over into a rifle company.
I worked my way through.
I was like, man, I have this brand
new rifle company, I want to be there.
And so I worked my way from each one
over the course of a week until I got into
the rifle company.
Into the rifle.
And then Patrick and I were best friends
back then and you were friends with him
and that's how we.
That's right.
We connected.
Yeah.
That was like, what year in 92?
Oh, yeah, bout that.
Going back a bit.
Yeah, 91, 92.
Yeah.
So I started in cadets and then 17, I joined
the reserves and then I kinda like on and off
became what we call, I guess full-time reserves.
Right.
Without committing to being in the full-time.
And then I think at 20, I knew that I wanted to,
of all things join the RCMP or the police, and
I wanted to do something different than just join
the Canadian Forces.
And I looked at where mostly
Canadian bases were.
Right.
Wainwright, Petawawa, Shilo and I'd been
near enough of them as a reservist.
And in Wainwright, the British army always
trained there and I always saw their
equipment, their morale when they're
out and the training.
And I just thought, I had to look at them,
I spoke to a bunch of different regiments
and I made a leap of faith in I think 98 or
99 and off I went and.
Wasn't there an exercise where the
Brits came over?
Yeah, that's true.
So there was exercise they called Pawnshop
West where the British would come to Wainwright.
And at that time, I was actually in the Seaforth
Highlanders of Canada and we were attached
to the first battalion, the Highlanders,
which was their affiliated regiment.
And I went there with a Canadian section
and it was attached to them for four weeks.
Okay.
Five weeks I think.
They had a week of adventure training
in Canmore with them and that was
I think in August.
And then I made the connections I had
with the Highlanders.
Right.
Recruiting officers and everything else,
and basically left the Seaforth and the reserves
and had a one-way ticket.
And you see if I win.
The story I heard from other people was that
during an exercise, the Brits came over,
joined exercise and you said, this is for
me, jumped on the back of the truck and that
was it, the way you go.
But I guess there's a bit more to it.
There was a bit more to it, for sure.
Now one of the processes that actually made
it easier for me was that I had a British
passport through my dad.
Ah.
So that actually facilitated the process,
but they were actively recruiting Commonwealth
in the late 90's.
Right.
Like they actually stopped in the downsizing
2005, but there was a big influx of Commonwealth
soldiers and maybe not so many Canadians.
I met the odd Canadian in the Royal Marines
or in some other, maybe English regiments, but
I mean, there was a lot of Jamaicans and Fijians
and South Africans, and that tended to be more
the typical colonial.
Yeah.
Well, I remember around that time I figured
I'd jump on a plane and go over and enlist
with the Brits and I saved up all my dollars
and had everything squared away with the
recruiting officer.
And went on over, went to the recruiting office,
had my appointment.
And when I got in there, the recruiting officer
that I was dealing with who says, yeah, you're a
part of the Commonwealth, not a problem, come
on over, we'll get you signed up right away.
He wasn't there, he'd been transferred
and there was a new person in there.
And what I didn't realize at the time
and what you've told me afterwards, essentially,
she was just pouring a bunch of cold water on
me, but she says, well yeah your Commonwealth,
but you can't do anything security related unless
you're a British citizen.
For, I think it was five years and I said, okay
yeah, not a problem.
What's security related?
She says, well why don't I show you what
isn't security related?
And it was like janitorial duties
and even some of the janitorial
duties, they said are security related.
And I said, well, hold on a second, five years.
Oh, that's right, and your minimum,
engagement's gotta be four instead
of three and.
Anyways, after all of the information she gave me
and I went through and I process it and I thought,
geez five years, I'm not going to be getting
a trade or anything unless I'm in for what,
like 12 years cause I can't start until.
Anyways, I ended up using the money.
I saved up and went touring around Europe
with it and but you know, everything
happens for a reason.
I would imagine that had I just persevered there
and just said, forget it, I'm in, once I'm in, I
would be doing anything.
I think it's interesting, had you just focused
on the infantry.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You would have been, like for myself, why I didn't
go there with the concept of getting a trade, I was
going into the infantry.
Right.
And I wanted it to be in the RCMP, and I wanted
to do three years, something different.
And I said, I'm going to go to the
infantry, best way to get the experience.
I also had in the back of my mind that I wanted
to go on SAS selection.
Right.
So what's interesting about SAS selection,
is about that security clearance that
you're talking about.
Yeah.
They regular get people with the
same aspirations of Commonwealth coming over.
They do their time in the infantry and then
go on SAS selection.
We don't actually pass the security clients.
I actually failed that prior to
going on selection.
Really?
Yeah.
I didn't pass it, but the SAS, they still
put you on course.
Okay.
And then once you actually, if you
were to be successful through their phase.
Right.
Now you're in the SAS, they just turn around
and go back to whoever deals with the security
clearance goin yeah, he's a badge member
SAS and you just get rubber stamped.
Ahh.
So none of the colonials actually pass the
security clearance prior to selection anyways.
I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Interesting.
So it doesn't matter like the, you know, you're
in, you're in, so that's a concept with that.
It's interesting story about myself,
I was in contact with the Highlanders
recruiting team.
So prior to that, I wrote the Parachute
Regiment, I wrote the Royal Marines, I wrote
the Royal Green Jackets.
Yeah.
They're all Irish.
And none of them were actually actively
recruiting me.
Okay.
Same kind of roadblocks with you, but being
attached to the Highlanders and
the Seaforth, their affiliated regiment,
their recruiting officer, Cam McKai actually took
a real live interest in recruiting me.
So that's what, where I ended up with them right.
Got it.
They actually said to me, send us your military
documents, we're going to put you up, I think
it's Cameron Barracks in Inverness, that's
their headquarters.
So we'll feed you, we'll put you up and just show
up here, let us know where your paperwork
is, we'll send it over.
We'll facilitate it.
You get fast tracked through training and you
show up in the battalion.
So one way ticket.
I over-packed, ended up three bags.
You want me to go to Europe for three bags?
Right.
I didn't know.
I'm thinking I'm going here one way ticket.
Yeah.
And I got the train off to Inverness,
I get to Inverness.
I go to a bnb, check-in I let captain McKai
know I was there.
He sent a driver, picked me up, took me down to
the recruiting center.
And it came apparent that they weren't going
to put me up in the barracks, they weren't
going to feed me and they lost all my paperwork.
Oh man.
So I had hard copies when I came over.
So there's no fast track in this, but the actual
paperwork and process, it took me two weeks
to get process through the actual recruiting
application process.
But I was running out of money too.
I was staying at this Airbnb and I guess it
wasn't Airbnb back then.
Not then.
It was just bnb.
It was just bnb yeah.
Just bnb.
So they sent me down to the job centre and I'm
like, I go down to the job centre, so I'm like
a place to get a job.
Cause now that's what was actually
good about having the British passport
is, I could work.
Right.
So got to the job centre became very
apparent, it's their doll welfare office and
a claims going to take a minimum of six weeks.
Right.
And I'm like, well, I can't wait six weeks,
I'm going to be starving.
Yeah, no kidding.
So I said, okay, I said, let's do the process.
So meanwhile, I go back to there to the bnb and
the owners are like, well, if you're going to
be here more permanent we have a friend that's
living in France and he has his flat that
we can rent out weekly.
Yeah.
So I think it was a couple of hundred pounds
a week that, maybe a hundred pounds a week I
was paying for this flat.
So I moved into that.
Yeah.
But that night I went down, I thought
I'd go check out the local nightlife.
And I go into this club called mr.
G's nightclub.
And I see a sign that says help wanted, so I go
to the bouncer and I say, hey, says help wanted.
And he's like, brings out, goes and gets
the manager and the managers like, can
you come back for interview in the morning?
So I'm like, sure.
So I come back, had this interview and
I'm thinking, I'm just going to be a bottle
collector and he's like, great, you're
going to be bartender.
You don't need like a bar license right.
Right, no serving it right.
I'm going to be a bartender?
He's like, yep, you start tonight.
I'm like, okay, I've never poured
a pint in my life.
And it was a Saturday night, I leave mr.
G's and it was mobbed.
And it's not like in Canada where everybody
lines up nicely, it's like everybody, five deep
at the bar yelling their drink orders at you.
And it was like, you know, Baptism under fire.
And I really enjoyed it and I actually took it
a couple extra months off to just enjoy being
a civilian and being a bartender at mr.
G's nightclub in Inverness.
Very cool.
Yeah.
Very cool.
But bartenders there, they don't
make a lot of tips.
Okay.
And you're making a minimum wage.
So I picked up extra shifts in the morning.
I'd come back and help the cleaners clean.
Okay.
But even between cleaning and bartending I was
only making enough to feed myself twice
a day, basically.
And then my life was just basically, so I
would, let's just start from like, say the
nightclub shuts down at 2:00 AM or 1:30.
2:30 your back home.
I would sleep to probably three till
like eight o'clock.
I did that, you know, maybe four or five
hours, if that get up, I'd go help the cleaners
for three, four hours.
Come back have an afternoon nap.
I would work out, run, weights, cause I'm
still trying to maintain fitness for getting
into British army.
And then I would go and mr.
G's nightclub had a pub attached to it
called the nials.
Okay.
So I'd pick up early shifts there at six,
helping in the nial.
And then I'd rotate up to nightclubs around 9:30,
10 when it got busy.
And I did that for maybe two months, to
October, and I realized it's fun, but I didn't
come here to do that.
And then what was happening as well was
there was a change in the system where
initially my enlistment would be three years.
And if I didn't enlist before this date in like
early November, I would be bumped to a four
year minimum engagement.
That's what the woman was telling me that
recruiting office.
Yeah.
So I at the time didn't care.
It was like maybe nine o'clock in the morning,
like captain McKai sent one of the high, a
couple of the recruiting Highlanders over in the
land rover, knocked on my door and I'm like, get
your ass to come to it.
And he's like get in the land rover and then I
went, you know, I had a chat with captain McKai
and he's like, yeah, you gotta get this goin.
So I did.
One thing that they did do, was they
send you down for a fitness assessment.
Right.
For a three day, I don't even remember,
I think it was like the army foundation
fitness assessment.
It was like a two day program to see where you
were and I scored really well on it, to the point
where I came back to my recruiting Sergeant and
said, how well did I do?
He said, exceptionally.
I said, good enough to go to the
parachute regiment?
Because I thought you I'm just going to go
the parachute regiment.
Yeah.
And unlike maybe in American, Canadian
Forces, that's you're, you joined straight
from the street and you go to the parachute
regiment, you do their.
Right.
Their training, B company and so on.
The recruiting Sergeant is dealing with is
that, hold on a minute, makes a phone call.
And then down comes this major from
the Highlanders, their training
NCR officer right.
He sits me down and he's like, you know Mr.
Budd like, you're right, you could go to the
parachute regiment.
But if you come to the Highlanders, you're
definitely going to get on junior branch
and your section manager course earlier.
And he goes, if we're going to do
this for you all, let's do it for real.
He goes, join the Highlanders, do your
time, get on section manager course, and then
go on SAS selection.
Right.
And I'm like, yeah, you're right.
And then, so he retained me because I'm like,
ah, let's just go to the parachute regiment.
He knew exactly what to say.
Yeah he knew what to, so that was that.
Yeah so, I think I started when we did it,
then it was they called the army foundation
college and then off it was an Edinburgh.
Right.
So the Scottish division and dark, gloom, ,rainy
place called Pennycook.
Okay.
And up in Glencorse in Edinburgh,in
the pentlands, if anybody's been there.
Very hilly, very wet.
And I think that night I go into the, they
call it the cook house.
Okay.
And there's a distinct song I always remember
playing and it's Coldplay, why does
it always rain on me.
And I'm just like, it's depressed right.
Yeah.
And the food, my goodness, the food.
Where do I even start with it?
I had to get my friends to send me vitamins.
It was that bad?
To supplement the food.
Yeah.
It was like, we definitely can get
malnourished here.
Wow.
Well, they got a nickname for the
British army, right?
Well, the British don't actually know
that name, but we're not unaware of it.
But the Canadians always called them
the shit eaters.
That's right.
And, but the Brits are completely clueless.
That's there, but yeah.
So, you know, that was, I think back
then it was maybe a 12 week basic training.
Yeah.
At the end of it, because I was a section commander
in the Seaforth, at the end of it, my report
indicated that I didn't, they said possibility
of skipping the next trade would it be my
infantry training and just go to battalion.
Okay.
So the next phase is we all traveled
down to Catterick the infantry training
center Catterick.
So Catterick, they call it ITC Catterick,
infantry training centre.
Catterick, it's the biggest
Garrison in Europe.
It's also has the most CCTV cameras
in your per capital.
Okay.
I had a meeting with the company commander of
our training company I was in and he said, oh
the reports from your basic training said, just
fast-track Highlander Budd to the battalion.
What do you think?
Nah, you know sir, I'm open for anything,
whatever you think.
And I can't remember how it went down, but we
may have flipped for it.
Really?
I can't remember.
But somehow we ended up on training.
I didn't go to battalion.
Okay.
So we were there for the first, the
infantry training, I believe is 14 weeks.
Right.
That's a long haul.
Yeah.
Two of my best friends that I'm still in
contact with is Marty Gray and Dean Nygen.
Marty was from the black watch and Dean
was from RGBW regiment.
Taking a step back, my mom was, we found
out was really sick and we actually
brought Marty home to Canada on vacation.
I call it vacation, on leave between
the basic training and ITC Catterick.
Yeah.
Of all things Marty loved hockey, played,
I guess it would be semipro in Dundee.
Wow.
Yeah.
So he loved hockey.
He loved our food here, obviously right?
Well, Marty actually, like I said, he was a
big lad from Dundee.
So being a smart, colonial that I was,
you befriend the biggest, toughest
guy on the course.
Right.
And that was Marty.
Right, there you go.
The thug from Dundee.
There you go.
He's actually the RSM of the black watch or
three Scott's right now.
Wow.
So he's done really well for himself yeah.
Yeah, Dundee, now I know where it is.
There's a Limerick about Dundee, but I
won't repeat it here.
Yeah actually from forthar.
Okay.
But Dundee was kind of like, they had a
saying they called it bide away from Dundee,
by away fae Dundee.
Yeah.
Scottish, jockaknees right?
I just know jockaknees is its own language.
It's basically Scottish slang mixed with British
army slang and they've created their own
language the jocks have in the British army and
the jocks of the Scots.
Jockaknees.
Called Jockaknees right.
All right.
It was really hard.
Like when I first got there, like
during section attacks and training,
I couldn't really understand anything
being told to me.
Like just point me towards the direction
I'm going, because the jocks'd get fired up
and then the different dialects you got the
Glaswegians you got the Invernesians,
you got Aberdonians.
You've got, you know, by the time I came
back three, three and a half years later,
as an instructor, I could totally hear
pretty much an entire British army, even the
English regiments and know what regiment they
were going to or what town they were from.
Really?
Just by their accents, yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
Like for example, the rural Highland,
future leaders recruited from Glasgow.
Right.
So you just knew there, the Weegee's right.
So yeah.
So long story short, long weekend, prior to that,
I knew my mom was really sick, I remember waking
up when I was home on leave and her crying.
I remember hearing her crying in
the living room.
Right.
And I came out and I just hugged her, she
was crying and her whole body was in pain.
Yeah.
I'm not going back, I'm going to go
AWOL, hang with you.
And my mom, like not a chance, no son of
mine's going AWOL, you're getting back on
the airplane and that was actually the last
time I actually saw her.
Right.
Just prior to the long weekend, my dad called
me, he goes, you know, Son, we've found some
bad news and your mom has cancer and it's terminal.
And she has a year live, so that hit me
pretty, pretty hard, really devastated.
Totally.
I was a mama's boy, what can I say?
Sure.
Right.
Yeah.
And I go up on the long weekend and then on the
Saturday my dad calls me, he's like, okay, your
mum has 24 hours to live.
So that, I'm like what is going on here?
So I told Marty and his partner, I'm
like, I got to go.
I get on the train, Catterick has like,
or ITC Catterick had, it was like, at the
time, five training battalions in training.
So I ended up calling, not my Sergeant major,
ended up being the guard Sergeant major.
Really?
But I just called them, I just didn't
have the right number.
And I called them and I said, I'm on my way
down, sir this is me, you know, I know you're
not my Sergeant major.
He got all my info, he passed it on to my
company Sergeant major.
They had a driver waiting for me in Darlington's
closest town.
Land Rover, straight in, pack my bags, jet
down to a Heathrow and I was on the next
airplane back to Canada.
And then I got back shortly and my mom
was already in a morphine coma and
then, didn't really get to say my goodbyes
and then she passed.
Right.
So I ended up staying in Canada for another
four or five weeks, and then I went back.
So by the time I went back, my training
company was going on their final exercise.
Right.
So the training staff decided, even though
I'd only done four weeks of training,
I could go on final exercise with my batoon.
That was good.
It was.
Yeah.
So I only had to do the funnel X and then I
was off the battalion.
When I first met the training staff, they
brought me in, because I know, you know, Jay,
he was section commander in the NKR, they sat
me down and they said, rate the platoon 1-30.
Okay.
So you never put yourself top.
So there was a big Fijian that was from, Gus, he
was an ex cop from Fiji, I put him number one.
Okay.
Right.
So I put him one, me two and that's how they
made the section right?
Really?
Yeah.
They kind of, orbated everybody.
So everybody had an equal share in
this jock platoon.
And, but you never, and I remember like
halfway through the Black watch, the corporal's
like, Budd you lied!
Well, you never put yourself at
the top do you.
Your corporal right.
Yeah so, I did the final X and then
rolled into battalion.
In the British, there's a few things that you
did, which I thought were pretty neat.
So one of them was you did some
skiing over there.
And whenever I think about that, I just
conjure up these ideas of James Bond or Jason
board or skiing for the British army.
But you travel around to a few different
countries to represent, I guess, England
in a few different events, didn't you?
Well, you know, being in a Scott's regiment,
it's not England.
It's such a travesty, right.
They're very, I mean, the jocks don't want,
they're freedom crazy.
No, but yeah, so I grew up kind of skiing
in Canada and then as a teenager, I bought
my own snowboard and saved up for it and
I was a snowboarder.
So my first tour was to Kosovo.
Okay.
2000, 2001.
And then I came back and I did my section
commanders course.
Right.
14 weeks in Bracken.
Yeah.
And then that winter I'm back with my battalion
in Edinburgh and I saw that there was
the army championships for snowboarding.
Okay.
So I thought I'll have some of that.
Yeah, no kidding.
Set up a meeting with the QMSI, the quartermaster
senior instructor, kind of our physical training
instructor head guy.
Yeah.
And I said, you know, sir, I just saw this
one, you know, like this competition
for the snowboard.
And he's like, do you ski?
Said I can ski, I used to ski, I'm a snowboarder.
Right.
Sir.
And he's like, well, the battalion is going
to be sending a four man team to France to
race downhill, six to eight weeks, depending
how well you do.
Right.
You know, minimum four weeks, but it could
be up to two months.
Yeah.
How does that sound?
Or you could do one day snowboard competition
and Aviemore Scotland.
So I've only skied once in Aviemore,
imagine Travis like, I don't think there's a
chair enough, I think you get towed up.
But it's like ski.
Yeah.
Take your skis off.
Walk across the Heather.
Ski some more walk across some more Heather.
Yeah.
So I'm like, okay.
Yeah I think I'm going to ski again, sir.
And then, yeah, so you just send this
four men team and we spent a good portion
in Val-d'Isère France and they actually race.
So you start racing, I think we started
in the infantries and then you can move
through the armies.
It's proper racing, it's super G, it's downhill,
it's slalom, GS.
So I had to get like back on it pretty quick.
I remember in one of the areas is, Sersha Valley.
Okay.
And we actually downhill skied.
Like they close it off, there's
timers, everything.
You're in your catsuit and there's a run
there, it's an Olympic run and the final,
you do this hard right hand turn, and then
it's a one-mile tuck.
Yeah.
And I got clocked coming through there at
about 78 miles an hour.
Wooo.
Yeah.
Like skis are like 220 long.
No kidding.
It gets, it's proper racing and competitive.
But yeah, so that was, I did that for, I think
three seasons and then up to probably I think 2005.
And by that time between Iraq and Afghan going
on, the adventure training kind of dried
up for me and it was like deployment so.
Right.
But yeah, I did three seasons of
racing downhill.
That sounds like, yeah, definitely sign me up.
That's the that's a part of the British army.
Yeah.
I mean, that's one thing with the British,
they always I'm big on adventure training.
I mean, the very first time I ever rock climbed
in Canada was with the British army in Canmore.
Really?
Yeah.
That's where I got my taste for it.
Yeah.
Now you gotta do a little bit of rock climbing.
Well, before we talk about that, I did
you want to talk about selection?
Yeah.
So I thought I'd give a selection a go.
What's interesting in the UK is, if you don't
come from an infantry background, they make you
do an all arms infantry skills course, it's a
four week long course.
So, you know, in the 2000's with the SAS
being as busy as you were, they didn't
really have time to facilitate this training.
And this training is pretty important
because they want to give the non-infantry,
the core guys, a fair kick at the can.
Right.
Cause the second phase is you go to
the jungle, right?
Hmm.
So what they do is they bring one of the
senior NCO's from the training division,
usually the training wing Sergeant major.
And what they do at this time, I was teaching, I
went back to Catterick as an instructor, so I was
working at ITC Catterick there as the section
commander and instructor.
And then they had an elemen called Som
Company and they had a patoon there, the staff
that was responsible for facilitating that
alorm's infantry skills course, they call it.
Okay.
So you basically show up a Hereford first
and they run a kind of like a one-week
skills to make sure you're at the skills.
They want you to teach the staff.
Right.
And then you move to Sunny Bridge.
Sunny Bridge is the battle camp that
you're based out of.
Okay.
So it's basically like a rifle platoon staff,
you have the platoon Sergeant doing the
logistics, you have the platoon commander and
three section commanders.
Okay.
And the three section commanders, then get
assigned a section, for the, you know, they're
the core guys made up.
Right.
And then the training wing Sergeant
major oversees it.
Okay.
So we're kind of, you're attached to the SAS in
this training element.
So it's kind of cool because then.
Yeah.
You learn their conventional drills.
Right.
You're not doing any of that, you know,
black ops or anything.
It's just conventional, a lot of it's jungle drills
we're teaching them.
Okay.
For.
For berni.
Yeah, for berni, yhe jungle phase.
So it's really great.
And then the Sergeant major him and I got
on really well, he's an interesting cat.
Like he actually started in the, you
know, he's English, but he started in the
French foreign Legion.
And then he worked his way, all the way up to
whatever their equivalent to their special forces.
Left and then he joined the British army and then
worked his way up and.
Wow.
Then was training Sergeant major in SAS.
So, you know, can you know, you meet the SAS
guys, a lot of friends of SAS guys, and they have
this look, but this guy had a different look.
Yeah.
But he was great, great guy.
You know, he would tell me he's like
Jase, stay healthy, you're through right.
Because there, you do the four weeks in the
hills, that's where you select yourself,
the aptitude phase.
And then you go to the jungle and the
jungle is where they select you right.
Right.
That's, so you could actually complete the
jungle phase and they may turn around and
say, you know, sorry, you're not a good fit.
Right.
But you know, I had proved to John that I
was a good fit I guess.
And he's like, Jay, stay healthy and your in.
And that's the biggest thing is staying healthy.
Right.
And I actually, I did well on the hills.
Can we talk about what the hills are like, when
you say the hills is?
The hills is, yeah.
So the hills is, is the first phase,
it's like four weeks.
Yeah.
The first week is just kind of an
organized thrashing.
Okay.
You know, you do their CFT, their combat
fitness test, it's the eight miler and you
have under two hours to do it in, but it's
a pretty cheeky one.
Yeah.
And then, yeah, it was just for this first
week they're just kind of, they call it
Gilberts Gut Buster.
So it's like a 12 mile run around this
lake with hills.
Okay.
And there'll be certain phases where they'll stop
and it'll be like pushups or a fireman carrying
somebody up the hill.
You do this for 12K.
Yep.
Or 12 miles, I can't even remember anymore.
Kilometres just because the Brits are like
the military uses the kilometres, but
then we use miles.
Really?
Yeah, like if your, you know, your maps and
everything is kilometres.
Right.
But then if you're doing a fitness assessment.
It's in miles?
Two mile or three mile or five mile, I can't
remember anymore.
That's funny.
Might've been 12 miles.
It's called Gilbert's Gut Buster right?
Yeah.
So I remember one of my friends from the
Highlanders, he was a big boy, kinda like
you Travis right.
So I remember being told by friends who've
done this before is that, always run with
somebody your size.
Okay.
Right.
So I was aiming for that and in the groups
kind of spread off, like there's like on
selection, like four to 500 people show up and
it just gets weeded out day by day by day right.
Right.
So we set off, this is the day they do
Gilberts Gut Buster, and I'm running along
and I'm thinking I'm with the small guy we're
in the middle group.
And then we come to this hill and the next thing
you know, grabbed me and he's fireman carrying
me and I'm like, Oh my goodness cause now
we're going to switch.
Now you gotta fireman carry him.
And I got him like, not that far.
And then my knees, like I actually, I think I
hurt my knee there in that point and then
I had a knee injury from that point on.
Right.
Thanks.
Yeah, but I was like, I can't do this
and I dropped him.
He'd get on the, actually picked me up and threw me
on his shoulder and then he went the whole way.
Wow.
Well, yeah, besides that with his injury, I made
it all the way up the test week and in the test
weeks, just a series of marches in areas like
Elan Valley is probably the worst place on earth.
We call them.
In what way?
Well, wet.
Yeah.
Everything's wet.
Yeah.
But they call them baby heads.
Okay.
So imagine a soccer ball that's growing
in a grass ball.
Right okay.
Right.
I've heard there's ?? Grass.
Endless fields of this.
Yeah, yeah.
They're the ankle breakers.
Baby heads.
Baby heads you call them.
And now those seem like you're navigating like 20
K across this area right.
In Elan Valley, it's called right and
everything's wet.
So every step, boots are soaked.
Yeah, yeah.
But if you're not sure on your step,
you're stepping on the soccer balls of grass.
And you're going to twist an ankle or.
You've got 55 pounds, you've got
the old SLR riffle.
Yeah.
And it's horrible right.
So that's Elan Valley.
I used to like ending the marches in the
Brecon beacons.
Okay.
Because there wasn't a lot of baby heads.
I love the Brecon beacons.
There's a few other areas that they kind
of go to, but it's basically, they just set
you off in the trucks.
You're doing 4k an hour and on test week, it's
like, you might be, they start building up the
weight and the kilometre distance every day.
And it's like a seven day assessment.
This is at the third, the fourth week now.
Yeah.
And it's just like, you wanna make
four K an hour.
You might, there'll be a checkpoint you gotta
navigate to, and there'll be a couple of yes,
directing stuff there.
Yeah.
You can't have any map, marks on your
map and you'll just show up, get in line.
Cause there'll be other guys there too.
And you say, staff, this is where I am.
Okay, you're going to this grid, they
give you the grid.
Show me where it is, okay, way you go and
they take your name.
Right.
They could also, check your weight of your pack.
Right, okay.
And.
Find it light you're out.
If it's light?
No, they give you a brick.
Oh okay.
Or a rock and you've got to carry it.
And the problem with that, there's a few
guys where they're kind of underweight
and if you got this.
Yeah.
Physically, you don't really recover,
if that happened.
But yeah, those end, they also do kit check.
So they'll give you a kit list and a lot of people,
not a lot of people, there'll be a few people
that didn't abide by it.
Yeah.
You'd want to call some stuff out
for weight, right?
Well, the weights the weight.
So for example, if they say this is 55 pounds,
then you pack 55 pounds, but they have a kit list.
So it could be like a panel marker for
helicopter or airplane marking, mess tins, water
bottle, spoon, whatever.
Right.
And they'll ask us, show us your tarp,
show us your first aid kit, show em that.
But if you haven't got that, then
you're flagged.
Right.
Cause they go, well, you can't abide
by detail right.
Right.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
So that's not good.
So that could happen at the checkpoints.
Yeah and then you just basically, and
so you know, the first day it might be 25
kilometres you're going.
Then the next day on test week or go on 30 and then
so on and so on, so on.
And then the final day, they kind of bring
it back and you do, I think it's 25k we did.
Got back to sunny bridge, you know, six o'clock,
had dinner, packed up and then that night you
start the 65 kilometre long drag they call it.
Right.
And I think the weights were like 65
pounds plus rifle.
It's the heaviest we had.
That's significant.
Yeah, couple hours sleep and I remember
sitting down in, it was on this side of
Brecon where we were in and it was storming.
So it was raining, snowing, like not snow,
it was snowing up in the beacons, but I
remember looking out the truck and looking
at all the seagulls hanging out here.
So if the seagulls avoided sea in the
middle of Whales, there's a storm on right.
Right.
So, and I remember the S were debating
sending us up or not.
Really?
And then the course facilitator.
Okay.
And he was like, yep, they go.
So off, we went and soaking wet.
And as you started climbing up, it's
going to sleet and then it's full on snow.
So we're soaking wet, heading up
into the hills.
And I remember being on top of the fan petty
fan and not being able to find my way down.
Okay.
I kept falling off the sides, it's stormin,
I'm hanging on and I'm like, and I'd been
up there probably so many times training.
Right.
I couldn't find my, finally found my way
off the fan and down.
And it started to get at first light and I was
so cold and checked in and then they get the
new grid and I look in the back of the four
toner and it's full of guys that have pulled
themselves off right.
Right.
Off I go.
How's that feel when you see that?
You know, I had a rough night up there though.
Like I ended up not knowing it, but I
cracked my ankle.
Right.
I had some bad falls going up there, but I
was just nursing it.
I'm like, let's just keep going.
And then as I went to my next checkpoint, I came
across and I think he was an RAF regiment guy.
And the RAF regiment guy who was hypothermic.
We're told that you don't abandon people.
Right.
So I get there and they're just huddling
and I'm like, let's get your half shelter
or your ponchos and let's make shelter.
Get this guy wrapped up in a sleeping bag.
And then we have our emergency
beacons, like our GPS beacons we activate.
Right.
They track us interesting for me, mine wasn't
working that night.
So when I came into the checkpoint, the
course facilitator, like Budd, your
Beacon's not working.
They had no clue.
So if I fell off the fan, they wouldn't have
known they'd find me down in the bottom right.
So they gave me a new one, so we activated
it and then I'm like, okay guys, I'm off, I'm
going to keep going.
And I remember the look of one of the
guys that was there like, don't leave me.
And I'm like, okay, I'm going to stay
and I'm like, okay.
You know, and it took the directing staff
with the Land Rover, they got up to us
maybe an hour later.
This time you're cold, starting to get
hypothermic yourself, body shutting down
and the DS go okay, you're all done.
And I'm like, no, I'm going staff.
So they radioed down to the course facilitator,
came back up and they're like, great,
but if you do this, you do this on your own.
We're signing off, like this is your
risk, you accept it.
Yeah.
Like I got it.
Off I go and I had about, I went, no,
I went another 15k.
So I'm probably about 40, 35, 40K into my 65
and I was just like, that, sitting for that
hour and a half was just.
Just zapped ya.
Yeah just zapped.
Yeah.
And then I got there and I said, I can't go on.
So I had a yeah, it took me a few months to
recover from that cracked ankle and everything,
because my goal was just, now I knew I was
really injured ,or just complete the march.
Right.
And then hopefully they would have kept me and
get better and then go on to the jungle phase so.
Well, they do selection twice a year, right?
Correct yeah.
Okay.
So summer selection, winter selection?
Yeah.
And you took it upon yourself to say, you
know what, I'd rather do this in the winter time?
You know, So you're right Trav, it just kind of
worked on a timeline.
Okay.
And it was just like, I was coming to the
end of my two years as an instructor.
And I'm like, this is the time to go.
And leading up to that though, like
I had trained for a year for it.
Right.
So I, as an instructor had, was alotted a lot
of time to train and then also being for six months
attached, as one, as the training team for this
all arms, I was really like, I was peeking
at where I should be.
Right.
Skills, fitness, and everything had just,
this was the time.
Yeah.
I come back.
Heal up, finished my time at ITC Catterick
and then I go to my battalion and it was
a time we were doing work up to go to Iraq.
Right.
So we had a big exercise in Suffield and then,
off we went to Iraq.
Right.
And then I was up in LMR with Bravo company
and the Highlanders.
Right.
About halfway through the tour I ended up
doing a pre-chorus for my senior brecon.
Right.
Between sergeant's course.
They were all Highland fusion leaders who were
based in Cyprus, ran it because they weren't
employed there in Cyprus.
So a Highlander boat, maybe eight or
10 of us left Iraq to go to Cypress to
do our pre-course.
Right.
So for us to go on these career courses,
it's a competition, so there might be three
section managers to goin to Brecon and
there might be three spots for senior Brecon.
So it's a competition, the whole way is
very competitive.
Right.
Did my two weeks pre-course to get
selected and then ended up going down
to Whales again.
Right.
I got to know Brecken really well.
Yeah.
2007, I decided to give selection another go.
Right.
The problem this time, I didn't have
enough time to train.
Okay.
Because you know, being a platoon Sergeant in
the battalion, it didn't help either like I
was a single Sergeant.
So being a single Sergeant, you got a lot
of tasks and deployments.
Okay.
I remember being told, Hey Sergeant Budd,
we're doing you a favour, we're sending
you back to Canada.
I'm like great recruiting NCO in Vancouver?
They're like no range safety in Suffield.
Just you know, rent a car, go home on the
weekend and I'm like, you know, it's like a 16
hour drive from Sufield.
Like it's quicker to fly from Heathrow
to Vancouver.
No kidding.
So I did, I think we did three months of range
safety with the green jackets battle group.
Okay.
They're going to rock so that doesn't help
getting range safety for my training.
So that was like, September
October, November.
Yeah.
So I basically had December to train and
then I went back on selection January.
Cause I'm just like, I'm doing it, I got to do it.
It was kind of a double edge because I
knew what to expect.
Right.
So I'm like, I don't need to train as much.
I say, you know what to expect, like on
Gilbert Gut Buster, I never left this Gerka.
Right.
This Gerka and I were partners, like I was like
a bungee cord on him.
So when it came to fireman carry, he
was just like this little, little guy.
That helps.
A little Sherpa right.
You need to carry me, no problem.
So if people don't know who their Gerka's are,
they're our elements of our British army that
we recruit from Nepal.
And that tradition, the gerka tradition is
maintained in the British army and the Indian army.
So yeah, I mean the average height's
probably 5'1", 5'2".
Perfect.
It was perfect yeah.
That element's good to know.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, the rest of it didn't do me
many favours and I, because I didn't have
the time to train.
Right.
For the first two weeks, I was really struggling
making the times.
Yeah, I didn't have the same mindset
this time around.
On week two at the end of it, they call it
that the fan dance.
Okay.
You go up penny fan down their own road back.
Yeah.
For us, it's pass or fail.
And then we go on to the third week and
there was a new element started in the British
army called the special reconnaissance regiment.
Okay.
And it was fitting under the SF tier.
And they're a part of the hills for
the first two weeks.
Okay.
And their pass or fail's fan dance.
And then they go to their infantry camp and
there was a guy I was on the back of the four
toner are driving out to the story arms, just
start our fan dance.
And he was on my first selection.
And then he was on selection for special
reconnaissance regiment.
And I'm sitting there, Oh man, I made
the wrong mistake.
But you know, all my SAS buddies that I did
have were like, yeah don't, don't, don't
join this special reconnaissance regiment.
And I'm like, yeah, SAS or nothing right.
Right, right, right.
So I'm sitting there going, man,
I made a mistake.
But it is what it is.
Everything happens for a reason.
It does I mean, I got to test week again, but
on day three and four, my achilles swelled up
like a golf ball and then I got medically RTU'd
again and that was that.
Right.
So, yeah, like that was January.
So another glutton for punishment, I
went back and did a summer selection.
Okay.
Like he came off on the hill, was
my first one, too.
He had a groin injury and he didn't make it,
second one blew the summer away no problem.
Yeah.
And he just cruised through it.
Really?
And even said summer, summer, summer.
But it was that timeline.
I'm like, ah, I gotta do it now.
Oh man.
Right.
Because you know, back in my head Trav, I was
actually getting ready to leave the army I thought.
Right.
I was just ticking boxes.
Right.
Like seniors, I didn't plan to do seniors.
I planned like junior Breckon,
SAS, back to Canada.
Yeah.
It didn't work out.
And then seniors came up and then, surprisingly
enough, that was January.
You know, that took up to February, I'm
getting ready to, I was kind of in limbo.
I couldn't really decide if our is
staying or going.
Cause I actually did really well, all in
all, I think I made platoon Sergeant in
six and a half years.
That's pretty fast.
It's pretty fast.
Even like in the British army, that's
like eight to 12 years.
It kinda, I mean, I came in with a
lot of experience.
And in that time you know, I went to Kosovo,
I went to Bosnia.
I did, I only did a couple of weeks in
Northern Ireland.
I didn't go there long enough to get my medal.
Well, that was one of the reasons why I
did join my Northern Ireland medal, but
yeah, it didn't happen.
But you know, it did junior Brecon and
then for us, like the part of your career
development, you go to the depot to teach.
And I had that exposure in Catterick and I
actually did really well in Catterick.
And you get graded and the highest grade
you get is like, OI1.
Okay.
That's a highest, so that's like, they call
it outstanding one.
Okay.
So that actually got me on my commanding
officer's radar.
He didn't realize that I was just another
section manager.
So that gets flagged OI1.
I was a senior section manager when
we deployed to Iraq.
Right.
We were an armored infantry battalion
at this point because we were stationed
in Germany now.
Yeah.
And we were in warriors and I hated warriors.
Okay.
Because everything I've done is rifle
company prior to this or dismount.
Right.
Or light roll.
Okay.
So I facilitated, never being trained
on the warrior, commander, commander.
So that always defaulted me to dismount.
Okay.
That always made me, like I had some other
roles, like I would be the, like the smaller
arms coordinator for the company.
So if there's any ranges need to be run.
Right.
Like we went three qualifying all the
drivers who commanders and gunners with
their handgun.
Right.
We were using Browning's at the time.
So I coordinated all that training, so I was
kind of like the small arms subject matter
expert for the company.
Right.
So, and then for the platoon like I was the
senior section manager, so I got another,
OI1 assessment done, what do they call it?
Your confidential report for the year.
Okay.
So that gets you kind of flagged really
well at seniors.
And what happens is, is that you sit the board.
So how I can explain the board when you get
promoted, there's a bunch of like Brigadier
generals sit in around a castle and sit around,
they actually grade you.
Okay.
So normally you need four years in rank and
that career course.
So, cause I had 2 OI1's and I'd only been a
section commander for three years, but those
2 OI1's allowed me to st the board early.
Ah, okay.
So that's how I got fast tracked through
the system because I sat the board early
and got promoted to platoon Sergeant.
So, and then went off to selection, injured
again on the hills.
And then the RSM and I are trying to figure out
where's my career path.
Cause I'm like, well, maybe I'm done, I've
ticked all my boxes.
I'm done everything.
And then he's like, well I need a training
NCO to go to Africa, I can't even remember.
And then at this time I thought
about Pathfinders.
Okay.
In 16 aerosol was now kind of like it's growin
to a larger, it used to be like a platoon
and it's actually now tri-service and they
actually have their tri-service selection.
Okay.
Similar to the hills, but they do 3K an hour
versus four, and then they do their own camp.
Okay.
And then I believe that company commander
was from two squats.
Well, Scott, so I knew him from Catterick.
So it was open tri-service.
And then one of the options as well, I
had been assigned to the sniper platoon.
Right.
In the Highlanders because we had a
sniper platoon.
And prior to that, I was always trained
to sharpshooter.
What the RSMs like, okay well, here's kind
of the career path that I'm thinking is like, go
to Africa for a month, I need you to go here.
Then you go down and do your sniper platoon or
your sniper course so that you can take over
as a platoon Sergeant for the snipers.
Because the sniper platoon in the
Highlanders, it's the only platoon where
the platoon commander is a color Sergeant.
Okay.
So that's a ranked staff Sergeant where
the rest of the platoon is you always have
a platoon commander.
Right.
So the platoon Sergeant would be
the platoon Sergeant.
And then the, a platoon commander
is a color Sergeant.
So I would have taken over as platoon Sergeant.
And then he goes, I know you're going to
train on the weekends and then you roll into
your PF selection.
I'm like, great, good plan.
I leave and on the way out the battalion
??? like Sergeant Budd, happy where you're going?
I'm like, yeah, I'm going to Africa Sir.
He goes, no, you're going to Afghan.
I'm like, I'm going to Afghan?
And he goes, yeah, you're shipping out
here in about seven to 10 days and usually.
Yeah.
There's a build up.
Like count that six months to a year.
Right.
Britain's usually about three months.
He's like, yeah, you're out of here.
Well, and he goes, sir, we need to
talk about this.
So I go and have my meeting is like they
Greneder guards are taking the omelet,
which is the training advisors role.
And there's a company of leftover privates
that don't have any hierarchy or head shed.
Right.
So he's said they need a platoon Sergeant and I'm
sending you and another Highlander, corporal
section commander to go with his element.
So what happened was the brigade commander
realized that he had this rifle platoon that
was being coordinated to guard camps.
Right.
That's what we thought this was, the staffing
was going to be.
Right.
And it ended up was, I guess this is going to be
a brigade strike company.
Oh wow.
So they ended up facilitating a lot of
the command element from across the different
infantry regiments, the staff up as
this strike company.
So they actually were building up, but what
they needed was a continuity NCO to go out.
Right.
And get familiar.
With the area we're going and all that.
So I was planning on leaving and coming back
to Canada, I'm like, I go to my dad, I got
one more tour dad, got to go to Afghan.
And I thought that'd be enough, cause prior
to that, you know, done Northern Ireland,
Coatesville, Bosnia, Iraq, and now Afghan.
Right.
In a short period of time.
Yeah.
Very short.
So I'm like, all right, let's go.
And I ended up getting attached to a four five
commando through the company down in Garmasir.
Okay.
And Garmasir's the furthest South of
any British element and its site.
30 miles from the Pakistan border and
it was a gateway for the Taliban coming
across from Pakistan.
Right.
And then they co-locate in this area take on
this company, British company and then
bypass and go out.
So it's kind of like a training depot for them.
And the British in this area couldn't go
any further because he needed that golden hour
to fly back to camp bastion of your injured.
So there was kind of like the Brits
were dug in here.
And it was interesting, they were on,there's
this hill called J-tack hill that the British had
occupied and made in the 1800's, 1850, or I'd have
to look at the dates when they were there again.
And here we are again on top of that with
a union flag, British union flag on top of
that, on the same mound.
Wow.
But yeah, that ended up being about a seven
and a half month tour.
So I was attached to the Royal Marines
for about four weeks.
One of the tasks was we had the new
33H type rifle, learned that rifle.
Like it wasn't even in the UK, it was
literally elsewhere.
Know the ground, get promoted to ground.
And then when our company came out, that
continuity can be carried over to the relief
in place happenings.
I was attached to the Company Cypress section
for about four weeks and got them up to
speed and then handed it, handed off to their
section commander.
And then I took over as a platoon Sergeant
with my platoon, which I'd never met before.
The only guy I knew was my section
commander from the Highlander is big Alex.
Yeah.
And it was getting to know this new
group of guys that had never met before.
No kidding.
Yeah.
Wow, that'd be quite an experience.
Yeah.
You know, I remember when you came back and
you said, Hey, Trav, let's go for a hike.
Okay, yeah, let's go for a hike.
Now, I'm what, 6'6", 250 pounds, we're going up
the hillside and I guess there's a couple things
that stood out at me.
Like number one, your ability to just go,
like, you'd pick a pace I'm like, Oh my God,
why is he going so slow?
But you don't stop and you just keep going
and going and going.
Which over time, of course, that's not
slow, it's quite a bit more efficient.
Yeah.
But the other thing that really stuck out was
there's another fellow that we're with, I think
he was having an issue with his boots at the
time and had a little bit of an issue and
you said, okay, stop.
We're gonna stop right here, you, Dennis,
administrate yourself.
Right.
And then we're going to keep going.
But of course at the same time, I had an
issue I'm like, oh thank God, Dennis has
got something here so I can take care of mine.
But the idea behind, whenever something
small, I'm like, you know, something small
on my boot at the time right and just stop
administrate yourself and keep on going.
And that whole mentality of not necessarily
slow and steady, but steady pace and
whenever something comes up, attack it
and deal with it was completely new to me.
And the amount of distance that we covered
in a short period of time and on subsequent runs
the amount of mountains and hills that you and I
have done together that prior to that, I wouldn't
have been doing it.
I had to be going as fast as I can and then
burnout of the steam and then having a rest.
And I don't know if that's something that
you got from the British army, or if that was
more something you got in preparation for
SAS selection there.
You know, Travis, that concept of fix a
problem when it's small.
Right.
It's common, right?
Yeah.
And, you know, feet for an infantryman
is your, probably your biggest asset.
Yeah.
Your boots got to fit.
So I was the type of person I didn't
believe in blisters.
I don't believe in breaking boots in.
Right.
They fit out of the box or they don't.
Okay.
So I would buy a new pair of boots.
So at the time that the boots were
issued with crap.
Hmm.
One thing I did, am I able to British army
were all in the infantry.
We could pretty much wear anything we bought.
Where as long as it was DPM or green or
black, we could use it.
So I always kind of proud that the only
thing I went on SAS selection that was
issued with socks.
I had everything else I bought right.
As a kit mongler, they called us.
Yeah, yeah.
But.
You're not a kit monger anymore.
Not at all.
You should see my, I have a seacan of climbing
and ski gear Travis.
I know you do, I know you do.
You don't know how many ski's I have.
Yeah.
So I would trial the boots once, I would
allow myself to get blisters once and
if I got the second time, they're gone.
Right.
Right ,so I didn't believe in blisters.
It's like fix it.
But for sure, like if there's a problem, I'd
rather like, you know, because as you know, I'm
an apprentice ski guide with the association of
game mountain guides.
It's like, client care, hey, I need you to tell
me I have blisters.
We have, need to fix this now right.
Right.
But you know, Travis, like that lesson
doesn't always apply.
Right.
For example, like I think three, four years
ago, Mount Hector, I think it's 14,000 feet
in the Canadian Rockies.
I was building my resume to apply
for a pet to ski.
And we were ski mountaineering with
my, partner Stephie.
We looked at the wind, the weather window and
it was cold and clear.
But the avalanche conditions were stable.
Like I'm like we got to go.
Yeah.
This is where we're doing it.
We get up super early and we're heading
up Mount Hector.
And I had the biggest burley gloves, these
Arc'Teryx gloves on.
Yeah.
And I didn't realize that there's a goalie
that we had to boot pack up and I didn't
have the draw strings.
They were like these over cuffs for it right.
Yeah.
And there was snow crystals falling
inside and then they were melting.
Yeah.
But I'm working hard, skis on the pack and
I'm like, I'm warm.
Probably minus 25.
Right.
But I'm warm.
So part of that concept is like
soldier on through it.
Right.
So now we're above the goalie and we're ski
touring up and we're getting close to the
summit and now the wind chill is hammering us.
And it's probably, I think with windshield,
Steph said it was like minus, probably 40.
Wow.
Already 50.
Right.
And thinking back to my first selection, I
remember there's this night nav march, so after
Gilberts Gut Buster.
Yeah.
That night you do a night nav and you're
in a team of four.
Okay.
And you do like 16K.
Yeah.
So, and it's all night.
And then you get about an hour of sleep
and you get back and then you do a day.
Wow.
It's take that Thursday into the Friday,
that's a long day.
No kidding.
I think the end of week one.
But I remember going up in that evening and
it was the last time ever used a Camelback.
Really?
My lesson learned.
Yeah, we're allowed Camelbak, we still
have to carry two water bottles.
Yeah.
But my straw froze.
Okay.
Going up on this ridge.
My straw froze, I can't get water and
then I think my right eyeball froze as well.
And now I've got no water and I get up there and
the group you're moving at this group's pace
and it's like two in the morning and they're just
going, you can't stop.
The unsort, you need to sort myself out.
And it's just like, you know, it was
horrible dehydrated and everything.
No kidding.
So coming back to Mount Hector, I remember my
hands being so cold.
Yeah.
And I remember it was the last break before
the summit and I remember I had a new dry pair of
gloves in my bag, but I'm like, there's no
way, I didn't realize that the snow had gone
down on my gloves.
And what's happened is, is that it melted
and there's a fleece element, like a liner,
and then the hard Gore-Tex leather shell.
So that fleece pushed all the moisture out.
Yeah.
But it couldn't pass through.
The Gore-Tex.
So it was like this ice shell formed in between
my finger and the shell.
Right.
My hands were cold, but manageable.
I'm like, I remember seeing these dry pair
of gloves, goin there's no way they're going
to be as warm as the gloves I have on.
Right.
I didn't change, but my instinct said change your
gloves, but it didn't.
So we carry on, get to the summit, take our
skins off for our skis.
Drop in beautiful ski down, like going
up, probably take us six hours, seven
hours to get there.
Yeah.
We were back at the truck in like 40 minutes.
Wow.
We're high fivin, get some great photos,
get into Tacoma and we're driving back
to the hostel, where we had, we're moving
hostels at nights.
We had to grab our gear and we were
going to head into another hostel in town.
And I remember just two minutes driving down the
road and I'm like, uh oh.
Yeah, you did it.
And the pain just hit me.
We were just only a couple of minutes.
We got to the hostel and I gave myself
frostbite in my pinky.
Yeah.
And I gave a frostnip in every other finger.
Right.
And the pain was so, like that frostbite
in the pinky, like I was incapacitated.
Wow.
Like I had to sit at the table and just moan
and then like Steph had to do everything, load
us up in the Tacoma, drive to the new hostal.
And that night, like incapacitated
didn't sleep.
And then we go decided to go to the hospital.
Like my pinky is black.
Wow.
Right.
And the doc's like we already booked some
more nights up in the Wapta, up in the bow hut.
Yeah.
Do some ski touring and the doc's like oh
yeah, it's great, you get another reinjury and
we amputate in August.
So there you, I go, that's our trip done.
Yeah, no kidding.
So I think that was February.
So we came back.
So that, that lesson, yeah, Trav, like I have
the gear, I know better.
It's that, I find now, if that, if something's
telling you, that instinct, that voice.
That's huge, that's huge.
That's huge, like you should do that.
Listen to it, if it says change, I need to
change my gloves, no, change your gloves.
You know, I need to do this.
That is, I think that voice has kept a
lot of people alive.
Gavin de Becker, a fellow by the name of Gavin
de Becker wrote a book called the gift of fear.
And essentially aside from it being a great
big sales pitch for his company, which a lot of
it is, the underlining thread in it was, we
have a voice inside of us that is essentially
an instinctual voice that we should
probably listen to.
If you, it talks about, you walk into a bar and
spidey senses say this isn't right, this is
not a safe place to be.
But then you start trying to think about
it, ah no, I'm safe.
I'm a big guy.
I can take care of myself.
He says, you know what?
Just, just listen to the voice.
Maybe it's time to take off and leave.
And, you know, I think that voice Trav, it's
interesting that you brought that up because
you know, the British army in Northern
Ireland, they call it the absence of the normal.
Training you to observe this.
Right.
So for example, like kids on the street
playing soccer, football, and then no
kids on that street.
Well, that's a good common indicator.
Don't go down that street.
Right.
So I kind of noticed in Iraq at nighttime,
like during the night we did most of our
work during the night.
It seemed like we surrendered a lot of the
area to the insurgents during the day.
And then we took over at night.
Fair enough.
I like to do, we didn't operate a
lot during the day.
They didn't operate a lot during the night,
but one thing I kind of noticed was that dogs
really barked for us.
Okay.
But they're silent for the locals
and insurgents.
So that was a common indicator for me, was
that if something was amiss, was silent dogs.
Interesting.
Right.
I don't know if the owners took them in
or what, but that was just an indicator.
And then I kinda like in Afghan, I don't
know how I kinda honed these senses,
but I realized that animals sense energy.
Okay, yeah.
And just prior to maybe an ambush being sprung
or something, I just found that the calmness.
Calm before the storm.
Interesting.
Right.
And even to the point where I even found
mosquitoes not bite, and I don't know
how we're here or anything, but I, but.
Well, maybe it's something and maybe it
was a mosquito thing, or maybe it's something
that your spidey senses are going, you've
got it back there.
And you just happened to be noticing these
other things that are correlating.
And I think that that's exactly it, Travis, it's
our powers to observe our surroundings around us.
Right.
So I remember when, you know, I'm back
in Canada now and my girlfriend at the time,
we went to watch a movie in Maple Ridge.
Okay.
In the new theatre they had there.
Yeah.
And I walk in and something just
didn't feel right.
Right.
Just observing.
And I go to my girlfriend and I'm like, we
need to leave now.
And she knew me well enough not to question
my, just my sense of something's not.
And just as we left, there was a big police
take down undercover on some organized gang
members out were there.
Interesting.
And she's like, I'm never going to
doubt your sense.
Never.
Yeah.
I can't advocate enough to listen to that.
Whatever it might be big or small,
just listen to it.
Yeah.
So that was just another example of, my gut didn't
feel right about it and you know, I'm moving into
the guiding world, that intuition is huge, right?
That's so part of your train assessment.
And, you know, in ski guiding is a lot of
times it's like, what is my gut telling me?
Right.
And why is it telling me this?
Right.
So that's pretty important for sure.
Maybe we should take a look at doing a
bit more work on the navigation courses that
we're putting together.
And maybe we'll come back and talk about
those at a later time too, because you're
relaying some pretty cool stories about and some
humorous ones as well about navigation issues
with the British army.
I think it went for an Africa there too.
Yeah.
Jason, thank you very much for taking the
time to talk with me on the podcast.
No worries Trav, thanks.