[00:00:00] Antony Whitaker: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business. 
[00:00:28] Antony Whitaker: Hey, it's Antony here and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. So let's get straight into it. No matter where you live in the world, there are a lot of people and businesses that are experiencing challenging times. And if things are tough for you in business at the moment, then it's easy to become overwhelmed and feel beaten up.
[00:00:50] Antony Whitaker: Now, I'm not going to say that you should naively ignore the challenges in business today because they are very real. But if you're only focused on the negative, then that's what you'll see and feel. And at some level, you'll manifest more of the same because no matter what's happening in the economy, there are always people and businesses that are growing and expanding and generally doing better than ever.
[00:01:15] Antony Whitaker: Now, my guest on today's episode is Martha Lynn Kale, who has grown from what was originally a 1000 square foot salon with five chairs and seven staff. She then acquired the next-door space and expanded to a 2000 square foot salon with 11 stations. And upwards of 28 staff and now has just opened a 4,000 square foot space with 19 chairs and 42 staff and counting.
[00:01:42] Antony Whitaker: So in today's podcast, we're going to discuss knowing when it is time to expand what apprentices and beauty school students need to know in order to get their career off to the best possible start, and how to create a team of productive stylists and why you need to develop a personal. Brand, and so much more.
[00:02:03] Antony Whitaker: And so, without further ado, welcome to the show. Martha Lynn.
[00:02:07] Martha Lynn: Hello. So happy to be here.
[00:02:10] Antony Whitaker: happy to have you here. It's been a little while. Actually, I should just say to our listeners that you are a returning guest. You were first featured in episode 21. Now this will be episode 230 something. So yeah, it's a long time between drinks and Episode 21 actually came out in December, 2019.
[00:02:32] Antony Whitaker: So, imagine if we'd Known then what we know now. Right. It was, it was tumult.
[00:02:37] Martha Lynn: that we did it.
[00:02:40] Antony Whitaker: yeah. It was, it was, do you know what? I was going to go back and listen to that podcast before today and I've just realized I didn't get time to do it. So, uh, I can't remember everything that we spoke about, but I certainly know that a lot's changed since, uh, since that point.
[00:02:55] Antony Whitaker: So, um. Let's start with an overview of you and your background. Who is Martha Lynn? Give us your sort of two-minute backstory and then we'll dig in.
[00:03:05] Martha Lynn: Martha Lynn. Um, actually I started my career in advertising and marketing and left that, um, business and corporate world to go pursue cosmetology. And I knew going into it that I would open my own salon. That was always a goal of mine. I didn't know how soon I would do it, but I've been in the industry about 15 years.
[00:03:28] Martha Lynn: I've had Mirror Mirror. for almost 13 years now, and I have been out from behind the chair for about four. So just focused on spending time with my little boys and running this business and couldn't be happier with where we're at now.
[00:03:44] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So that's going to be, well, amongst other things, that is a big change. If people were listening to the episode that we did in 2019, you were still active behind the chair and with a significantly smaller salon than you've got now. So let me just start off with a bit of an all-encompassing question. 
[00:04:04] Antony Whitaker: what have you learned over the last four years? What would be the sort of the big nuggets that, uh, you know, you'd, you'd put on the table and say, this is what the last four years have taught me.
[00:04:16] Martha Lynn: The last four years have taught me that is that you can always squeeze just a little bit more out of your business. And I think that going into 2019, we were already looking for another location at that time. We were, you know, we're completely full. We need another location. And, um, luckily, we had not signed that lease at that time.
[00:04:35] Martha Lynn: And so, um. You know, we were forced to sort of reevaluate how we do our scheduling, um, creating space for everyone. And so, productivity has always been my superpower. And, you know, figuring out how to maximize every minute of every day, um, and then teaching the team how to do that as well. And so, um, it's funny to look back and think, oh, we've got to move.
[00:04:58] Martha Lynn: We've got to expand back in 2019. And then we, we essentially doubled our revenue just about with the exact same chairs, just being a little more strategic with how we were using those chairs.
[00:05:13] Antony Whitaker: Right. Okay. Um, I'm not sure if you'd done the renovation. When we did that last, uh, podcast episode, but you did major renovation.
[00:05:23] Antony Whitaker: You spent a ton of money on it. And I can remember thinking, oh my God, girl, you, you like, you know, are taken a big risk here, but it wasn't a risk at all. You proved me wrong. So, what I want to ask you in, in terms of revenue, and I know you said you were comfortable talking about this
[00:05:40] Antony Whitaker: Your small salon, originally started as a small salon when I first met you and you had like five, six staff tops, uh, and then you expanded into, into the next door space and doubled your square footage business grew dramatically, um, and you were bursting at the seams as you just alluded to what sort of dollar figure did you max out at revenue wise for total sales for the year in the previous space?
[00:06:07] Martha Lynn: I think we're right around 3 million dollars and, you know, really thinking about, you know, we had maxed out, you know, and from the very beginning, when we opened, we've had double digit growth or growth year over year every single year. And that's really important to me because that's, that's our scorecard, you know, and I think that a lot of times we can get a little bit comfortable saying, you know, oh, well, it was kind of flat or we grew 1 percent or something like that, but at Mirror Mirror., we're always striving to have those big double digit growth years, which, you know, when you start to feel like you're maxed out, it's hard to do.
[00:06:48] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Okay. So, you have now closed that space, got rid of it. And you've just, was it this week or last week at the time of recording, you just had your official opening of your new space. And, uh, I'd encourage people to go and check it out. It's a, it's a beautiful space. It's a big space. And it's, uh, it's very, very impressive.
[00:07:13] Antony Whitaker: So how many square feet is the salon now, the new location that you're at?
[00:07:18] Martha Lynn: We're a little over 4, 000 square feet, which includes a mezzanine, which is fairly unique to our space. Um, but the, you know, the, the ground floor, I think, is around 3500 or so. Um, but, you know, we've gone from 1000 to 2000, you know, 3000 plus, and, um, we've got about 19 chairs now.
[00:07:37] Antony Whitaker: Right. Okay. And what do you think the revenue potential is for, uh, the new salon, which I have absolutely no doubt you'll achieve
[00:07:46] Martha Lynn: I think we'll easily do 6 million dollars in this space. Um. But it's always hard for me to qualify, quantify things like that, because I even tend to surpass even what I think is possible. So, you know, we, we doubled our, our chairs and so we should double our revenue is where my, my mind is that, um, but, you know, we have an incredible team and who knows.
[00:08:09] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, exactly. I think, I think you're very capable of doing that. And having seen the salon and the, you know, the team that you've built up, uh, and, you know, knowing what a go getter you are, I would love to revisit another podcast, but not wait four years, uh, further down the line a year or two and, and see where you are, because I'm quite sure you're going to get there.
[00:08:28] Antony Whitaker: Um, okay. So, uh, let's just, uh, talk about your business model. So just explain what the business model is that you have and, and why you believe in the way that you have set it up.
[00:08:41] Martha Lynn: Well, we're, you know, team-based commission based. However, you want to think about it. Um, but I mean, that's really it. You know, we're on a sliding scale commission and, you know, no 1 has their own set stations. Our schedule is, um, you know, split on certain days. 
[00:09:00] Martha Lynn: And so, we are really. Um, I, what I pride myself on with our business model is that we're able to still with 42 team members be fairly individualized with what we can give our team based on what needs they have in, you know, this specific season of life, which, as we know, changes,
[00:09:20] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, although the market for a lot of people is about, um, you know, being rental. As opposed to having employees, you're very firm about it's an employee-based business and we build up an employee-based culture. And that's what we're all about. Yeah.
[00:09:37] Martha Lynn: Yeah, it has to be. We actually started out as a rental when we were 5 chairs, um, and that worked well for us for a year. But as soon as I had my 1st apprentice, you know, I started thinking, well, what are we going to do here? And how do we expand and grow? And a lot of our business model now is, um, supported by our education and our apprentices are, you know, I call them our bookends, um, the very top of our, 
[00:10:02] Martha Lynn: our team, as well as the newest members of our team, and that's really the secret sauce to Mirror Mirror.. And that has to be in a team based or commission environment,
[00:10:15] Antony Whitaker: another thing is, you know, in different countries, there are more or less employee benefits. And in some countries, for example, the Australian market, uh, benefits, you know, uh, but they don't even call them benefits, they call them entitlements. Um, and yeah most Americans would fall over when they sort of hear the amount of benefits that you get in terms of, you know, health care and holiday pay and look, there's a list that goes on and on.
[00:10:41] Antony Whitaker: Um, and by and large, depending on the state you're in in America. Um, employee benefits for the hairdressing industry are pretty much optional, and so a lot of salons don't offer any benefits at all, but I've spoken to you, and I know that you are offering more employee benefits, and I've come across one or two other salon owners in the U S
[00:11:04] Antony Whitaker: recently who are also moving a little bit in that direction. So can you talk to us about that and how that sort of fits in with your um, you know, whole ethos of building a brand and building a business and why you want to, um, you know, make sure that your team are looked after in that way.
[00:11:20] Martha Lynn: I think it's incredibly important and it was a goal of mine from the beginning when you're, you know, a team of 7, you can't afford that. Um, and, you know, I think a lot of. Um, our industry has accepted, especially in America, that, you know, salons don't necessarily provide it unless they're really, really big, perhaps, or their model is such that you're getting a very small percent of what you're bringing in and that helps support the company being able to provide these benefits.
[00:11:49] Martha Lynn: So you're, you're trading essentially, um, we've been able to figure out how to both pay our team a ton of money and then also provide these benefits and part of that is that we're a larger team, but you can't do your best where you can't be your best employee or team member or hairstylist when you're worried about what's coming, or you're afraid of what if I got injured, we had, we had 2 stylists that were out the entire month of December for major surgeries and, um, we were able to, right before that, we were able to have short term disability in place so that they were covered, you know, that in the past they would have just been, you know, you hope you have a savings account kind of a thing.
[00:12:37] Martha Lynn: And, um, and so that's really important to me. And that will be something that every little bit that we can add to what we bring in as a salon. We like to pour a little bit back into those types of things. 
[00:12:54] Antony Whitaker: Yes, I don't think you have either that you're located in Austin, Texas. Um, so I was going to ask is, is a benefits compulsory in, in Texas? Because I know in some states they are, in some states they're not. And it sort of varies a lot, doesn't it?
[00:13:07] Martha Lynn: no, you know, there's a little bit of that, but, um, we're still under that benchmark that it's not necessarily required. I think, um, as you get a little bit larger, maybe so, but, um, not necessarily in our case.
[00:13:21] Antony Whitaker: How has it helped you in terms of, um, both recruitment and retention?
[00:13:28] Martha Lynn: Um, you know, I don't know. I think that, I think it's a cherry on top for us. I don't know that that's necessary. People are coming to work at Mirror Mirror so they can have benefits. I think that. You know, a lot of what we're seeing in our, in the trades and in the industry is people leaving team based and commissioned salons for suites and rentals.
[00:13:47] Martha Lynn: You know, that's sort of what you're hearing a lot of. We're seeing the opposite here. We have a lot of very talented stylists that are coming to Mirror Mirror. that are, that are leaving that environment because they're really wanting the support and the culture and to be a part of something bigger than themselves.
[00:14:04] Martha Lynn: So, I think that's more what. What people are coming to us for in the recruiting and then ultimately that's why they stay as well.
[00:14:13] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. So, they've gone out, they've sort of, grass is greener and they've figured out that actually the grass isn't always greener. It is for some people. Some people do really well on that environment, but other people, you know, much better in a, in a, a team environment. Um, okay, so. Uh, I think you said 42 people on your team at the moment, and I'm sure, you know, that it's going to be growing considerably over, you know, the next few months.
[00:14:37] Antony Whitaker: Um, businesses only grow when, when the people within those businesses grow. So, what's the key to getting your team productive?
[00:14:49] Martha Lynn: Well, you know, we've shifted a little bit in the, in the, in the beginning, nobody knew about mirror, mirror, the phone didn't ring. It was really get out there and hustle, you know, and then as we built a brand that attracted clientele that said. Put me with whoever, you know, everyone got really comfortable with their books, sort of just filling.
[00:15:08] Martha Lynn: And so now we're actually shifting back into a place of, we want to match your energy. And so, if you're out working on your business, if you're retaining your clients, if you're finding new clients, we want to support that. And, you know, like secondarily to you getting out and hustling, but no longer can you just come punch the clock
[00:15:31] Martha Lynn: Do your clients go home and forget about your business? Um, you need to still be actively working on your business.
[00:15:42] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. A couple of times and I love that. I mean, I come from the hustle era and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But there's a lot of times people today they talk about hustle and hustle culture as if it's a negative thing. Um, how do you handle non performers on your team or do they just not get that far?
[00:16:03] Martha Lynn: So hustle does get a bad rap and I am a firm believer of, you know, You can't hustle until the end of time. I think you need to work pretty hard early on to build the momentum to sustain yourself and to create discipline and habits. But I, I like the word ambition a lot more than I like the word hustle because, and that's always been our model at Mirror Mirror
[00:16:25] Martha Lynn: We want to be home base for the ambitious stylist. So, when you're hiring for ambition, you don't have to do much micromanaging. You're hiring people that want it for themselves. And, um, there's not a lot of people that are not performing, you know, they may be in a, in a time where we're working towards certain goals, but it doesn't, it doesn't happen often here because we spend a lot of time on the front end and the hiring to make sure that we're hiring that right mindset.
[00:16:57] Antony Whitaker: Um, Yeah, you've really created that culture, haven't you? And so, when people come into that culture, it makes them even, even better than what they would be. And if they don't, then, well, how do you, how do you handle non performers? I mean, do you just move people on if they're not going to be a fit? They're not going to be a fit.
[00:17:15] Martha Lynn: They tend to move themselves on honestly. Um, and we don't, we don't have a ton of, um, of, you know, people leaving turnover. Um, it tends to be they're moving out of state or they're leaving the business or something along those lines. But, um, we, you know, we have a team in place, with me at the helm that we know what it takes to get people caught up.
[00:17:39] Martha Lynn: And so, either they want that or they don't, and it sort of works itself out.
[00:17:45] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So, I'm thinking,
[00:17:47] Martha Lynn: That’s very vague I know, but
[00:17:48] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, no, no, no, that's, that's not at all. I was actually going back as you were talking and just revisiting that hustle thing. And because I had the advantage of sort of knowing you a little bit over the years when you talk about hustle culture
[00:18:00] Antony Whitaker: I'm thinking, but actually, maybe a better way to describe that is that you've built a culture where you make it really clear to people that they have to take some responsibility for how busy they are.
[00:18:11] Antony Whitaker: Would that be a better way of putting it? You really say to them, listen, guys, I'm gonna, you know, we've got a great salon here. It's a beautiful fit out. It's cost a ton of money, and it's going to be a magnet for bringing in new people, and we're going to give you training and blah, blah, blah. 
[00:18:26] Antony Whitaker: But ultimately your success is going to be about you taking some ownership for that as well as to how busy you are. Would that be a fair comment?
[00:18:34] Martha Lynn: Yeah, it is. And we, you know, what we do well here is. We're able to advance people faster than in most salons. And so, you know, a lot of the training that we're doing on the front end is saying, you know, this is going to be harder. You're going to work the hours that maybe you wouldn't pick, um, or your rates might be a little bit lower, but everything we do at Mirror Mirror is based on demand.
[00:18:54] Martha Lynn: And so as soon as we get you booked, we can level you up. Your rates go up, your paycheck goes up, you get happier, the higher your levels go up, the better your schedule gets. And so, people are able to sort of hopscotch around to get to that sweet spot faster here, and that's what we're going for because, you know, they want to have that flexibility and finances is finances and flexibility is ultimately what tends to drive people.
[00:19:21] Antony Whitaker: sure. Yeah. Okay. Um, the expansion, the big leap from where you were to where you are now, a lot of people might have just sort of stayed where they were and, and thought this is great. We're maxed out. If I can keep it like this, I'll be a happy camper. Uh, what I want to ask you about is how do you know?
[00:19:43] Antony Whitaker: When it's time to expand, when it's time to, you know, take that next step. I mean, I know you're very ambitious and motivated, but you know, for other salon owners out there that might have a busy business, what's the key, you know, to, is it that you're turning away clients that every chair's full or like what else plays into it?
[00:20:02] Martha Lynn: Yeah, and, you know, I think that because of the way we have our schedule, we've got it all, you know, it's like a little Tetris board. And so, by the time you're doing 7 days a week, open from 7 in the morning to 8 o'clock at night, 6 days, and, you know, on and on and on, there's nowhere to move anyone. And when you have a large apprentice program, you know, we have anywhere from 4 to 6, typically at any given time, they're going to want to know that they have somewhere to go.
[00:20:29] Martha Lynn: And so we're, I'm always looking out to see what their career is looking like. And when are they going to hit the floor and will we have the chairs available? Um, and so you can start to see, oh, wow, by the time this next batch, you know, hits the floor, we're going to be really pinched. And so we also have, um, quite a few part time stylists.
[00:20:51] Martha Lynn: And so, you know, I'd rather have someone two days a week where they're giving it 115% in those chairs and they're maximizing those chairs than to have people that work full time that are kind of whatever and let the books fill. And, you know, we want you to commit, like, owning that chair for that shift is a privilege at Mirror Mirror.
[00:21:13] Martha Lynn: And so, you know, they know that they need to fill that chair or, you know, we may, we may shift things or, um, tighten up their schedule to fewer days or, you know, do things like that. Mm 
[00:21:26] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:21:27] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Um, going back to before when you, I asked you about how to, what, what sort of revenue figures did you max out at in the old salon? And what's the potential for the new one? And you said, well, we maxed out at 3 million. And I think the potential for the new one is 6 million. Um, and, and I'd agree with you having, you know, seen the space, um, and knowing you, uh, but it doesn't just happen because you've moved from a smaller space to a bigger space with more chairs and more square footage.
[00:21:56] Antony Whitaker: There's no guarantee that you're gonna go from 3 million to 6 million. Um, so how do you plan for growth? Like, what are some of the, you know, strategic things you put into place that's like, okay, in order for that to happen, we need to do this, this and this. What would that be?
[00:22:14] Martha Lynn: Yeah. And you see it a lot, you know, people will build this big, huge salon with lots of chairs and they're kind of the, of the mindset of, if you build it, they will come. And that's just not the case. You know, you have to keep the momentum. The challenge with momentum is there's never an end place. And so, you know, you're like, to your point of someone might have said, oh, well, this is great.
[00:22:32] Martha Lynn: We'll just be here. You know. If you're, you're either growing or you're dying, and so it's really hard if you're really in a growth place to stop the train. And so, you know, we never can rest on our laurels and think we've arrived. It can just sort of happen. And based on our level system, I'm always able to sort of see, okay, well, we've got this many a level one, but, you know, we can usually get them to a level three in a year.
[00:23:00] Martha Lynn: And so, at level 3 is when we really start to see those 6 figure stylists coming in. And then, you know, because I'm seeing them move along, even if we have this exact same team in place, because of promotions and rate increases and all of that, that's going to drive revenue as well.
[00:23:20] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah. How important was it that you stepped away from the chair in terms of getting the growth in the business that you've achieved and continue to achieve?
[00:23:31] Martha Lynn: You have to, um, you know, a lot of hair stylists, or salon owners, I should say, you know, they don't, they don't get that luxury. You know, they're either they're in a financial place where what they're doing behind the chair is supporting the business. I've seen it often. Um, and for me, it was very strategic and I started pulling back a little by little, but you have to be able to be in a place where you can say, okay, I'm okay with
[00:23:56] Martha Lynn: my pay being a little less or exactly where it is, but I'm freeing up this time to grow this other side of the business. And so, for me, it also shows my team that I'm really 100 percent invested in them versus maybe I keep these clients for me. Maybe I make sure I'm doing the highest revenue, et cetera, et cetera.
[00:24:17] Martha Lynn: I am not successful if they're not successful. And I think they really feel that here.
[00:24:22] Antony Whitaker: yeah, that's interesting. Okay. And, uh, I know you've also put in quite a sort of a management structure around yourself as well, uh, which is like an essential part of that growth. Talk to us about that, like the levels of people you have underneath you that are that are not doing hair, but in a sort of a management capacity.
[00:24:44] Martha Lynn: Yes, we have. We have quite a large, um, as you know, uh, support team is what we call the non-hairdressing role. So, we have a COO and he is sort of my right-hand guy. That's helping me run the business in the day to day. We have a hospitality lead. We have another hospitality member. That's also over all of our social media, all of our new clients.
[00:25:07] Martha Lynn: Um, and so. And then beneath them, we have our hospitality team that are, you know, checking clients in and out, um, making sure that our mirror, mirror experience is to the level that we want it to be. Um, but yeah, we have a big team in place and then, and then on the styling side, I have a team of six educators that are, um, they're working directly with our apprentices.
[00:25:32] Martha Lynn: day in ,day out and they are sort of my liaison to the salon floor. And so within that I have uh, um, extension lead and then I have a lead stylist as well.
[00:25:46] Antony Whitaker: Right? Okay. So, you really, okay. Always, you know, delegating, you're replacing yourself so that you can move up and expand and making the business work without you having to be the go-to person for everything. So one of the things that I think you've done really well is create a very definitive culture.
[00:26:07] Martha Lynn: Mm
[00:26:08] Antony Whitaker: Talk to us about that. Like, what is culture and what are the. What are the key ingredients of making sure that you've got a culture that represents what your values are in the business?
[00:26:21] Martha Lynn: Yeah, I mean, our culture comes from our core values and we didn't have core values when we first opened. We probably, um, we didn't solidify them really until we were about six years, and kind of right before that, um, that big expansion and everything we do comes from that. And so Mirror Mirror is called Mirror Mirror, because we want people to love what they see in the mirror.
[00:26:43] Martha Lynn: And so for, for us, that is sort of at the top of the pyramid, that's the pinnacle. And then everything else filters down from there. Um, we have a poster that says work hard and be nice that's here. And that's, if you're just a good person, then. You're, it all flows from that. And so we don't do egos here. We don't do gossip here.
[00:27:06] Martha Lynn: You know, if something funny comes up, we address it right away. But, you know, I find that busy stylists are happy stylists. And, um, so if we can kind of focus on that we're here to do a job and it is a fun environment, but it still has to be professional and we have goals to hit and all of that. Um, the rest will fall into place, but we have a ton of fun.
[00:27:28] Martha Lynn: I mean, fun is one of our core values. And so, um, you know, our team has a lot of fun, both in the salon and out of the salon, and we really value our, our core, you know, things that are important to us.
[00:27:42] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Did, did you find the culture changed when you moved from the smaller salon to this big? You know, business, I mean, it's, it's a big space there's a lot more people and stuff there. I mean, did it change consciously or did it just change as a result of you're in a different environment?
[00:27:59] Martha Lynn: You know, our, our culture has changed drastically, especially from that original 5 to 7 people that we had, you know, when you have a small group, each person is such a bigger piece of the pie. And so, good or bad, you know, they can really, um, they can really start to bring their energy in. And so, when you're a larger team and one person, good or bad is not going to, you know, ruffle the feathers of a whole team.
[00:28:26] Martha Lynn: Like, maybe 1 person might when it's a small group. And so, our culture gets better and better every year because we're hiring for culture fit where in the beginning, you know, you're like, oh, we've got to fill chairs. You know, let's this person's good enough, and they've got some client, you know, whatever.
[00:28:44] Martha Lynn: Now we're really choosy because we're almost full in this 19-chair salon already only six months in. And so, we have to be choosy and we know exactly the avatar of stylists in the categories that we, we want to bring into Mirror Mirror, which means we have to be okay saying no.
[00:29:04] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. So, in the smaller salon to, to generate the 3 million out of it. Um, and you sort of touched on this at the beginning, you had to get creative. Um, and you had to look at opening different days and different shifts and all that sort of stuff. Um, and now you've just alluded to, even in this existing space at 19 chairs, you're, you're already sort of started to max out.
[00:29:29] Antony Whitaker: Is that part of your strategy to then sort of go, okay, we need to have different shifts. We need to open earlier. We need to open later and you know, all that sort of stuff.
[00:29:39] Martha Lynn: Yeah, and, you know, we, we know it always works out, you know, a lot of times these new apprentices are looking at the schedule saying, where am I going to go? And it always works out, you know, someone moves off to wherever or cuts their shifts down in half or whatever. And so, you know, being a little bit over oversold, you know, kind of like an air, an airplane would do it, um, is better for us because we have a ton of flexibility as well.
[00:30:05] Martha Lynn: And so, someone's always on vacation. And so there's that chair available. And so, you know, if we can be a little bit overbooked, then we can ensure that we're backfilling with exactly what we need.
[00:30:17] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah. Okay. Um, we've sort of dipped in and out of this as we talked about benefits and stuff like that. But what do you find people want today? And I'm consciously not saying young people because it's not just young people. I think oftentimes people go young people today. They all want more flexibility or more this that the other.
[00:30:35] Antony Whitaker: You know, they only want to work part time, but I don't think it's just young people. I think it's I think maybe they're at the vanguard of it, so to speak. But what I want to ask you about is what Is what do you find that people want today in the workplace?
[00:30:51] Martha Lynn: I think they want a leader. I think that, you know, they are looking for someone that is confidently at the helm of whatever organization they're a part of. And I think that the young people are the new people to our industry. You know, they're not getting a lot of what they need in cosmetology school.
[00:31:11] Martha Lynn: And so, they're looking for guidance, you know, um, and then the people that are joining us that have been in the industry, 10, 15, 20 years are exhausted. They're tired of doing it alone, and they really value that leadership and that mentorship and someone that can say, hey, you may be plateaued at year 12 of your career, but from the outside looking in, I think we changed this, this and this, and you can work less hours.
[00:31:37] Martha Lynn: You can have better freedom. You can have clients you want, and you can have it all, but they need someone to tell them that
[00:31:45] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, that's really interesting because I'll often ask that question to people, and it's so obvious when you said it, uh, and I'm so glad you said it, that this went straight to, I think they need a leader and they want a leader. Um, and I think that that's true. Usually, the first thing that people say is they want flexibility.
[00:32:04] Antony Whitaker: They want autonomy. They want more money. And yeah, they want all those things, but I think leadership is lacking in the industry. I think leadership is lacking in the world. Let's be honest, um, in lots of different areas and, uh, in business, having good leadership is really important. And, you know, you were saying before about your values and one of them being fun.
[00:32:29] Antony Whitaker: And you and you are fun. Your business, you know, it radiates sort of fun. The way you talk about it, the way you talk full stop, you know, generally speaking, is it comes from a place of I want this to be a fun place to work. And there seems to be a fun energy about everything that you do, which is which is great.
[00:32:48] Antony Whitaker: Do you put any? I mean, you've had the business now for how long? When did you open the first business?
[00:32:54] Martha Lynn: Thirteen years.
[00:32:56] Antony Whitaker: years. Okay. So do you find that a young 18 year old walking in the door today is different to the 18 year old that walked in the door 13 years ago to start their career?
[00:33:09] Martha Lynn: maybe. You know, I think that, you know, I have a lot more of them walking through the door these days. You know, back when I first opened, I didn't even want an apprentice in the first place.
[00:33:19] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:33:20] Martha Lynn: And so, you know, I spent a lot of time at the schools, and so I'm sort of seeing what's out there. And so. Um, you know, I think that again, there's always been, and there'll always be people that have ambition and that want it for themselves.
[00:33:34] Martha Lynn: And so because of what we've created, we're attracting that type of person, whether they are fresh out of school or 20 years into their career, they're, we're a magnet to the ambitious stylist.
[00:33:47] Antony Whitaker: Right. Okay. And they know that they're going to get busy there. They're going to get built up and you have a, you have a path that they're going to, take. Okay. How do you react as a, as a boss when people leave? Because people always leave, you know, for different reasons. I mean, how does it, how does that impact on you?
[00:34:04] Martha Lynn: that is probably the thing that I have changed the most over the years. I used to really white knuckle, my team members, because I was so afraid. I mean, you know, it's scary. You think I've poured into these people, they're going to leave. They're going to take all their clients. They're going to talk bad about us or whatever, fill in the blank thing you're afraid of.
[00:34:26] Martha Lynn: But, um, because we, value our culture so much, it's, if you're going to go like go, go today, because I, I'd rather someone leave than stew. And so, we sort of have a thing internally where if you don't, if you don't like something at Mirror Mirror, if you have a question about something, you have three options.
[00:34:49] Martha Lynn: You can, you know, try to change it, bring it to me. We can brainstorm it. I'm very transparent as a leader. If we can make it change, then I will. If I can't, I'll tell you why. Beyond that, you have to go to acceptance, you know, where you say, Hey, I like 95 percent of this environment and these people, it's not going to be 100 and just let it go, you know, or you can leave, but you can't stay and just complain, complain, complain.
[00:35:19] Martha Lynn: You have to participate in the environment that you're in. Or go find a different environment. And that is that's what's changed the most about me because I used to be really afraid of people leaving. And now, I want people to be where they belong. And if someone's sitting here, taking up a space on our team and messing with our culture, I'd rather them go ahead and go find where they are a better fit to make room for the next Mirror Mirror stylist.
[00:35:48] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh, now I've, been privy to a project that you've been working on for a little bit and it's a book. I've had a sort of a look at the first part of it. Um, and it seems very exciting and very well written and interesting. So tell us about the book and tell us about why you wrote it and who it's for.
[00:36:09] Antony Whitaker: I should preface it by saying it's not, not ready yet. It's not out yet, but it's in the sort of final stages. So yeah, tell us about it.
[00:36:17] Martha Lynn: Yeah. So the book is called The Ambitious Stylist, Making the Most Out of Cosmetology School. And, I've mentioned ambition and how important that is to me and my business. And, um, you know, I really wanted to start with students because our industry is actually in a little bit of trouble if we can't turn things around starting at the very, very beginning.
[00:36:40] Martha Lynn: And because I work with so many, you know, students coming out of school, I've interviewed so many of them, they're mostly not ready. And so having come from a background where I went to college, where I grew up with, you know, family that could be mentors and leaders to me, um, a lot of kids that end up in cosmetology school, I say kids, but anyone they're coming from backgrounds that often don't have that exposure.
[00:37:06] Martha Lynn: They don't have a guide or a mentor that's saying, this is how you do your resume. This is what you should be doing to fill your time. This is how you build a clientele to set themselves up for success. And so, this book is meant to be that guide. And I'm, you know, aim to be their cheerleader to get them from beauty school into their dream job.
[00:37:26] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to read the finished article. One of the things that you talk about in the book is the importance of developing your personal brand. Talk to us about what is a personal brand and why you should care about it and how you can intentionally build it in a way that sets you apart and helps you attract clients.
[00:37:51] Martha Lynn: So, this is important. Your personal brand is sort of everything about you. I think a lot of people when they think of branding, they think of a lot of effort going into it and a logo and of this and aesthetic. But, you know, the more you can do the work to figure out who you are as a stylist as a person, and then you can start to say, okay, well, how do we create the professional version of who I already am at my core?
[00:38:15] Martha Lynn: It's going to come very easy to you. Um, I think that when we get, when we're trying to be someone else that we think that the industry needs or a salon that we want to work at might look for, or a client might want, you're gonna have to work really hard to play that role. And you don't want to play a role.
[00:38:35] Martha Lynn: You want to be the best version of yourself. And so you have to start to be really intentional about how do I talk to people? How do I dress? How, um, how am I talking to my clients? How do I act when I'm not in school or in the salon? And everything you do becomes your brand. And it's really important.
[00:38:57] Antony Whitaker: that's yeah, I totally agree with everything you've just said. Um, one of the things I was just thinking about, I think it's in part two of the book. You talk about how networking is the basis for building a strong clientele.
[00:39:10] Martha Lynn: Right.
[00:39:11] Antony Whitaker: And I couldn't agree more. I think your dead right. Can you give us some tips for expanding your circle of clients, even if you're shy or new to a new area? Because I think because this book is aimed at the demographic that it's aimed at, it's a digital generation 
[00:39:31] Antony Whitaker: I think one of the pluses about my generation is they didn't have the opportunity to text people. You had to talk to people, you had to eyeball people, you had to network with people. Um, and so I'm really interested on what sort of tips that you're going to have in the book for.
[00:39:50] Antony Whitaker: expanding your circle of friends, even if it is something that you don't feel comfortable doing, because that is a challenge that a lot of, this younger generation do have because they are so reliant on, on their phones and not that sort of face-to-face interaction as much.
[00:40:05] Martha Lynn: And it's a muscle that you, you have to build and you have to do it quickly because we work in an industry where we are interacting face to face or through a mirror with our guests all day long. And so that's not through a phone. That's not AI. That's not a digital platform. And so, you have to get comfortable really early on.
[00:40:26] Martha Lynn: Interacting with people, even if you're shy and so, um, networking gets a bad rap because you picture these, you know, businessmen standing in a tie at a networking thing with a name tag. That's not us. That's, that's not our industry. You know, we work in a very exciting industry. People love to talk about it.
[00:40:44] Martha Lynn: If you can just get in front of a stranger and say, what do you do? They're going to ask you what? What do you do? And you're going to say, I'm a hairdresser. And they're going to say, Oh my gosh. And all of a sudden, you're in a consultation in the middle of wherever you're at. So, you know, if you're shy, I think that you really just have to get in the habit of saying yes.
[00:41:04] Martha Lynn: When people invite you places, I think that if you don't, if you're new to town, if you don't have a large circle of friends, um, You need to start to find those clients that are the networkers and let them do the networking for you. And so, um, just getting comfortable talking to people face to face is networking.
[00:41:26] Martha Lynn: And I think that we skip over it, but if we don't master that early on, it's gonna be very awkward when you do finally get that client in your chair because you're not gonna know what to talk about or how to ask for a referral. Um, or to prebook them because you're nervous because you're interacting with another human face to face.
[00:41:45] Antony Whitaker: Hmm. Yeah. I actually think it's one of the great gifts that being a hairdresser gives you because all you don't survive as a hairdresser. Because, um, you know, in theory you might have, depending on the sort of salon you work in, 5, 10, 15, 20 clients sat in your chair in a day. Um, and so you either learn to become sociable or you don't survive, you know, and there's degrees and degrees of sociable.
[00:42:14] Antony Whitaker: I mean, you know, when I go get my haircut, I don't want to talk all the time as a client and lots of people don't. But that's also part of the skill is identifying who who wants just. And who wants some, you know, uh, engagement and conversation and all that sort of stuff. And one's not right. The other wrong that they're just different.
[00:42:34] Antony Whitaker: But, uh, I think being a hairdresser, it teaches you that skill so that you can mix with a whole strata of society and have something to say, because you're used to doing that, making small talk with people in the chair all day long. Uh, so, so this is a great gift. So yeah.
[00:42:52] Martha Lynn: right. Well, and you know, I remember, you know, my, all my apprentices are taking your, uh, super styllist course right now. And I don't remember the exact statistics off the top of my mind, but you explain the percentages of where our clients are coming from. And I challenged them to start to think about, okay, well, if 90 percent of your clientele isn't coming from social media, you shouldn't spend 90 percent of your time in that platform.
[00:43:18] Martha Lynn: You need to, you need to match those percentages. And your efforts to where you're going to get the most bang for your buck,
[00:43:25] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, definitely. it's, uh, the figure I quote is 70%. 70 percent of people that walk through the door of your salon or any salon come because of word of mouth of someone else who's already been there. Now that word of mouth might be over the dinner table. Or it might be via their Instagram saying, Oh, my God, I went to so and so today at Mirror Mirror and she did my hair.
[00:43:52] Antony Whitaker: What do you think? Do you know what I mean? And so to her community online via Instagram, it's still, word of mouth referral. it's existing people talking about you to someone else. But they're still only going to do that if not just if they had good hair, but a good experience and met a nice person because that's what you want them to say that like, you know, I absolutely love my hair and you really got to go and see her because Martha Lynn is so nice.
[00:44:16] Antony Whitaker: You're really going to connect with her. You're really getting it on with this and you just have the most amazing experience here. It's a whole package of all that, isn't it? It's, you know, relationship experience and delivering, the product or service. 
[00:44:28] Martha Lynn: Yeah, and, you know, it's both and now, you know, it used to be just all networking. And then I think, we went to where we were kind of like, we couldn't network as much because we couldn't be out and about. So, we really were heavy, heavily relying on, social media and digital platforms and all of that.
[00:44:43] Martha Lynn: Now it's both and. And you're going to grow a lot faster if you're doing both things because as soon as they have the word of mouth, the next thing they're going to do is look at you on social media and see your work. So, you can't, you can't forget, you can't let one go for the other. It's both and.
[00:45:01] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah, and inevitably some people be better at some things than others. You know, some people are fantastic on their Instagram, but not so good face to face. And some people more than compensate for it because they're so good face to face and they just attract the, you know, a never-ending stream of referrals from their existing clients.
[00:45:20] Antony Whitaker: Um, let let me switch it up a bit. I want to talk to you about other parts of your business. I know retail is a big part of your business, and there's a lot of talk in the industry moment about retail. I know some sounds are even doing away with, retail and putting a chair in there instead, but I'm curious about you in your business for retail, because I know it's always been an important part of it.
[00:45:43] Antony Whitaker: Um, let me start by asking you what percentage of your total sales, would you typically get, uh, through retail?
[00:45:51] Martha Lynn: We're probably 10%. You know, we're low. Um, as far as, you know, industry goals and we're always trying to strive for more, but it's not a, it's  not a focus for us at Mirror Mirror, but we'll never go away. It's you can't, I tell my team, if I took away all your back bar, you couldn't do your job. And the same goes for your clients.
[00:46:12] Martha Lynn: When they go home, they can't do their hair without products And no one that walks through our door, doesn't wash their hair. And so at the very least we have to start talking to them about their shampoo and conditioner. Are they happy? Great. Let's keep that going. If they're unhappy, let's find them something else.
[00:46:29] Martha Lynn: It's just part of the story. And I think that we get really wrapped up and we've got to get retail up. We've got to sell more products, you know, emphasis, emphasis, but it's just really part of the conversation and giving that full experience, but one stylist is going to sell a ton in the next knot, but I'm not going to spend my wheels over obsessing over the one that doesn't sell product, you know, because we are a hair salon that has products.
[00:46:55] Martha Lynn: We are not a product salon that does hair. And that's just how we view it at mirror, mirror.
[00:47:01] Antony Whitaker: Mm. Okay. That's a good play on words that, um, are your retail sales, uh, growing as a percentage of, of, uh, total revenue or are they declining? I mean, I'm trying to get a, that they are growing. Okay.
[00:47:13] Martha Lynn: Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, we're, we're actively. Choosing a few categories that we're saying, you know, maybe this hasn't been our category in the past, but that doesn't mean it can't be. And rebooking clients is 1 of them and offering retail is the other thing. Um, and so we are seeing the ship move a little bit.
[00:47:36] Antony Whitaker: Good. Okay. Is it a different type of product that you find people are looking for today? Is there any particular, you know, sort of niche that you, because I know you've been very niche in some of your products in the past.
[00:47:48] Martha Lynn: Yeah, and we have we have bigger lines now. Um, I think that. It's not so much the product as. The way that the stylist is recommending it. If you're solving problems for people, they don't care what the product line is, as long as it can solve their problem. If you're just saying fill in the blank, here's the five things I use today.
[00:48:09] Martha Lynn: It's all the same product line. I think that can start to feel a little bit ingenuine and it can feel transactional versus where a client feels like it's a very bespoke, you know, these two things from this line and this favorite thing from this other line. Um, I think, that works better for us, but I, you know, it's different for every salon.
[00:48:29] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Um, now I know you've got a level system that operates in the salon. Uh, do you just want to explain how your level system works?
[00:48:41] Martha Lynn: Yeah, it's really just, as they're coming onto the floor, they're a level one stylist, that's our lowest price point. And the goal is really to get them booked as fast as possible. Ideally, they're moving on to level two by month four or six and then by the end of the next year, they're in level 3 level 3 to me is like, where it starts to really happen.
[00:49:02] Martha Lynn: The dollar per hour makes sense. Their timing starts to click. Um, all of that starts to come into play at level 3 and then level 3 is a great place to be for a little while, while you're figuring out, okay, am I going to go the extension route? Am I going to go be a lived-in color specialist?
[00:49:22] Martha Lynn: They start to peel off into these specialist categories and it starts to become a little more fluid after level three. Um, but it's important for the new talent to have a very clear. This is the plan. This is how we do it. We're going to get you here as quick as possible, but they want to know what that is.
[00:49:39] Martha Lynn: Whereas if I'm hiring a more senior stylist from outside of the salon, you know, it's going to be weird to just. Force them into some level you have to be a little more strategic with. Okay these are their strengths. This is where I see them fitting in. This is what's going to make them um, appealing to a client that's booking online and so, um, you know.
[00:50:02] Antony Whitaker: Yeah.
[00:50:03] Martha Lynn: The higher you are, the more specific it becomes.
[00:50:06] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. What, what's the criteria that you have for moving someone from level one to level two, level three, level four? Is there any benchmarks they have to meet?
[00:50:16] Martha Lynn: they're just hitting, um, service revenue dollars. We are looking at their, um, their product sales, but it's not necessarily a hard number because they may be really great at something else. And so, you know, I have certain key performance indicators that are important to me, percent booked, you know, I'm really big on how, how booked they are.
[00:50:37] Martha Lynn: Because if I, if you're not that booked and I raise your rates, you're not going to feel the impact where if you're 95 percent booked, we raise your rates and like, boom, that's a race. And so, um, the demand is really driving a lot of that.
[00:50:52] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Okay. Um, I know you, I don't know if you mentioned it on this, uh, podcast episode. I know we have previously talked about it, that you had a background in marketing before you became a hairdresser.
[00:51:05] Antony Whitaker: Um, first of all, how has that, has that affected, the way you treat business? Has it, has it had an effect or is it difficult for you to say because you don't know it any other way?
[00:51:14] Martha Lynn: Yeah, it's, it's affected it greatly because, I really, because I come from a business background, I grew up in a family of business people, you know, I've always treated this. As a business, you know, this is a business and where we happen to do hair, where a lot of times salons can get into that place where they're, well, that's not how it's done in our industry.
[00:51:36] Martha Lynn: Or that you can't do this or you have to do that. Um, we're looking outside of our industry really for inspiration. And so, for me, I don't really look to what's been done, what isn't being done, what my peers are doing, you know, I'm cheering them on, but I'm just looking outside of the industry for inspiration.
[00:51:56] Martha Lynn: And so, you know, the business side is important.
[00:51:59] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, definitely. What would you say your biggest strength was or what would other people say your biggest strength was?
[00:52:06] Martha Lynn: Oh goodness. Um, I don't know. I think, you know, I, I'm very good at hiring and I've gotten a lot better at that over the years because, um, you know, it's, I'd rather be good at hiring than have to do a lot of firing. And so, um, I know who's going to succeed and I can really see that in people. And I think that my superpower is often seeing things in people that they don't even see for themselves.
[00:52:32] Martha Lynn: And so I really love, pushing people and mentoring them and working with them and then, you know, their best month ever this year becomes their average month, two years later. And so best month ever is really important at Mirror Mirror. And that's what, that's what we focus on.
[00:52:50] Antony Whitaker: Okay. So, you're always acknowledging that that was your best month if it is, you make a big deal out of it.
[00:52:56] Martha Lynn: Big deal. It's a big deal
[00:52:57] Antony Whitaker: Every, everyone
[00:52:58] Martha Lynn: A bonus, a bonus at the end of the year for however many best months ever they have that year. We celebrate it team wide and it's really to keep people focused on their business and running their race versus saying, Oh, I'll never do what that one does. You know, a brand-new level one stylist, you know, we want to cheer them on when they've had their best month.
[00:53:18] Martha Lynn: Just as much as the other. And so that's how we do it. And, um, it works really well for us.
[00:53:24] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. No, I think that's great. Um, what do you wish you were better at?
[00:53:29] Martha Lynn: Probably focus, you know, I mean, I tend to be a little bit visionary and I kind of float out and I'm excited about what's coming next and I take on lots of things. And so, it's important to have people around me that have great focus, like Byron, our COO, um, to keep me a little bit tethered to the earth, but, um.
[00:53:50] Martha Lynn: I think that focus would be, helpful, but, you know, I am who I am.
[00:53:55] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, exactly. Can't be all things. Well, as you've just alluded to, uh, Byron and the role he plays, I often think that is a really underrated ingredient to anyone's success is knowing what you're not good at and making sure you've got other people and not being afraid to employ other people who are better than you at doing what you're not good at.
[00:54:20] Antony Whitaker: And I think that's a really good example, knowing your strengths and knowing where you need to, put someone else in there. Okay. Um, what drives you? You know, these 6 million goals you've got now. you've got this new salon, you've, you've spent a lot of money on it.
[00:54:34] Antony Whitaker: I mean, that's a driver, but is there, is there something else that drives you?
[00:54:38] Martha Lynn: Yeah, I mean, impact. You know, I really, for me, I, I'm not going to get to 6 million without the stylist. And so that means I have to look at each of them individually and say, okay, what are we going to get out of Brett this year? What are we going to do with Carolyn? And so that's the pieces of the puzzle that are going to get to 6 million.
[00:54:57] Martha Lynn: I can't just say 6 million divided by 19 chairs needs to be this amount of revenue and backfill with people. It has to be the other way around. And so, um, okay. Individually pushing them is 100 percent what drives me. And when you take someone that went to cosmetology school in high school and has been on the floor less than a year and is going to make six figures while all their friends are getting six figures worth of debt in college, that's exciting.
[00:55:26] Martha Lynn: And so, you know, doing things that have never been done really drives me.
[00:55:31] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. I always find it interesting when I talk to different salon owners, sometimes it's a cultural thing, different countries that do things certain ways. Uh, and one of the things that stood out when we're talking to you once, and I probably didn't mention this to you at the time was that you said, I expect each chair to generate a thousand dollars a day.
[00:55:50] Antony Whitaker: Now was that the figure?
[00:55:52] Martha Lynn: There's been a time where that was the goal. Um, it's a little higher than that now, and it's more of an average. Um, but, you know, that really also helps drive our scheduling. Because if they say, oh, I don't want to work a 12-hour shift. I would rather work from 9 to 6. and I'm like, okay, well, do you think you can still do 1000 hours in the 9 to 6?
[00:56:15] Martha Lynn: All of my educators can, so they get to tighten up their schedule, but if you're a level 1 or 2, probably not. And so. It's more of a not yet than a no. And so, um, yeah, I mean, you have to know what is your dollar per chair goal. But then putting the people in the chairs based on what you know you're going to get out of them in this year and this season is the way that you get there.
[00:56:41] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Is that a general trend? If I've understood what you just said, um, with people today, employees today, that they would rather work less days, but more hours within those days. So that they might do four, four days of, you know, 10-hour days or whatever, and then have, right, three days off. So, and you consciously, like, accommodate that.
[00:57:06] Antony Whitaker: You encourage it in a lot of ways. It's good for everybody.
[00:57:08] Martha Lynn: Yeah. Because of our shifts, you know, most our shifts are six hours or 12 hours. And so, you know, most people when they're starting out with us, they're doing too long days. So, to 12 and then to 6, you know, our shift. So maybe AM shift and a PM shift. And that's typically 4 days and they're, they're left with a ton of free time.
[00:57:29] Martha Lynn: And so, um, you know, that's sort of, yeah. When you come to Mirror Mirror, you have to sort of work those shifts until you can get to where the, the revenue can come, you know, we're sure that it's going to hit in a more creative way, but for the most part, people work those shifts and it works out
[00:57:47] Antony Whitaker: Hmm.
[00:57:48] Martha Lynn: for all for us.
[00:57:49] Antony Whitaker: So, so what time does the AM shift start?
[00:57:52] Martha Lynn: 7.
[00:57:53] Antony Whitaker: Seven o'clock to the first client at seven o'clock. Okay.
[00:57:56] Martha Lynn: 7 to 1 and then 2 to 8.
[00:57:58] Antony Whitaker: Right.
[00:57:59] Martha Lynn: some of them don't want to do 7, so they do 8 to 2, but they have to be really confident with their timing so that they are at 1:55 out of here for the 2 person to start.
[00:58:09] Antony Whitaker: Yeah. Sure. And, uh, do you get a lot of people in clients in at seven o'clock? Yeah. Okay.
[00:58:15] Martha Lynn: the ones that come love it.
[00:58:17] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, I'm sure. Like business, business women, they like,
[00:58:20] Martha Lynn: yeah,
[00:58:21] Antony Whitaker: they need to get to the office and they want to blow out whatever they just want their hair done before they've got an important meeting on, you know, bang, get on with it.
[00:58:29] Antony Whitaker: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Do you do anything, um, marketing wise around that? Is it like seven o'clock appointment? You get coffee and croissants or something?
[00:58:41] Martha Lynn: It's all seats on the airplane and you know,
[00:58:43] Antony Whitaker: Yeah, yeah,
[00:58:44] Martha Lynn: different people want different things and different stylists want different things.
[00:58:47] Antony Whitaker: yeah, sure,
[00:58:49] Martha Lynn: Senior educators, he works all morning shifts. So, you know, but then you take a 20-year-old. You know, fresh out of school, like, they really don't want to be here at 7 in the morning.
[00:59:01] Martha Lynn: They love being here from 2 to 8, though, and those are actually the shifts that are going to fill fastest.
[00:59:06] Antony Whitaker: yeah, exactly,
[00:59:07] Martha Lynn: works for us to do those
[00:59:09] Antony Whitaker: yeah, yeah. Now I found that as well, you know, different, at different times of your life, you want different things. And the idea for some people is starting at seven in the morning. And then finishing at one and they're home by two is like heaven for them. Do you know what I mean?
[00:59:22] Antony Whitaker: And then other people, they don't want to get up until 12 o'clock because they've been out partying most of the night, having fun. And why not? If you're in your twenties or whatever, that there's nothing wrong with that. But then it's difficult to get to work on time. But if you can start at two o'clock in the afternoon, it's happy days.
[00:59:37] Antony Whitaker: It's a win-win for everybody. Okay. Um, I want to ask you, um, about. Coaching and, I'm not looking, uh, for you to, uh, sell me and what I do, uh, but that is, I think maybe people are picked up on it already that I, that, that we have had some sort of relationship, you know, professionally here and I, I think really important and I'm sort of just curious to ask how important.
[01:00:05] Antony Whitaker: That coaching is, whether it's with me or anybody, um, for you as a business person, I mean, you're a bright, educated, intelligent person, but you invest time, you invest money in external education and, and, uh, and seeking out other people that can help you and your business grow. Talk to us about that for a minute.
[01:00:28] Martha Lynn: Yeah, I think it's critical, especially for the owner. If you're if you're the top of any organization, you can run the risk of saying I've got this figured out. This is the way we do it. We're just going through the motions. But personal development is critical for any leader and especially in our industry.
[01:00:45] Martha Lynn: And so, when you start to feel like you're the smartest person in the room, that's a good indicator that you need to go find someone that's smarter than you. That could look at your business Look at the way you're doing things with fresh eyes and give a new perspective. And not  every idea from a coach is going to be one that you're going to implement, but you can say, hey, I've never thought of it that way.
[01:01:06] Martha Lynn: And so, staying curious in your business, that's really critical to growth. And I think that coaching can really help move that along.
[01:01:17] Antony Whitaker: Okay, I'm really going to put you on the spot now and ask you, is there, any one particular thing that I might have said to you over the years, because I've known you for 10 years or something, um, 
[01:01:29] Antony Whitaker: Like if someone said to you, what's one thing Antony said that made a difference to you and your business? What would it be? Because I'm curious. Yeah. 
[01:01:36] Martha Lynn: You early on told me it's not if they leave it's when they leave, which was a little bit nauseating early on. When you first told me that thinking about any 1 of those people leaving. And I can tell you sitting here now that actually only 1 of those people that from back then is still with us. And so, um, creating an environment that is
[01:02:01] Martha Lynn: for the good of the team and for the good of the business. Knowing that people are going to, you know, come and go or move into different roles. But that, that, I say that phrase all the time. I've actually quoted saying that and, and giving you credit, I think in a magazine. Um, but it is so important to not back to the white knuckling employee’s thing, you know, they, you just do the best you can and you want to get the most out of them while they're with you and take as good of care as you can
[01:02:32] Martha Lynn: but things they move on. It's not their business.
[01:02:37] Antony Whitaker: yeah, exactly, exactly yeah, okay. All right. I did read that as well. So, Thanks for that little mention. Right. Okay. Um, so we're, we're coming up to the hour, so we need to wrap up whereabouts can people connect with you on Instagram or any other social media channels, you know, your website, etc.
[01:02:57] Martha Lynn: They can connect with me directly at Martha Lynn Kale on Instagram. And the salon is Mirror Mirror. ATX on Instagram or Mirror Mirror. Austin dot com. And check us out and, you know, check me out. But, um, you know, that's if you want to ask me a follow up question, I'm here. Send me a DM. I'll, I will read it.
[01:03:20] Antony Whitaker: Right. Okay. And as far as the book goes, when will that be in print and where will people be able to, to find out more about it?
[01:03:28] Martha Lynn: I'm hoping, you know, this summer it's really, really close to being finished, but, uh, you can be sure that on my social media and Mirror Mirror. social media will be announcing a little more firm announcements for when it's going to launch. But I think it'll be ready this summer and, um, you'll be able to buy it on Amazon and through websites and whatnot.
[01:03:50] Martha Lynn: But, um, yeah, follow along.
[01:03:52] Antony Whitaker: Good. Okay. All right. Well, I'll put those links, um, on our website, uh, growmysalonbusiness.com and in the show notes for today's podcast, wherever you're listening to it. And so, if you're listening to this podcast with Martha Lynn and have enjoyed it, do me a favor, take a screenshot on your phone and share it to your Instagram stories.
[01:04:10] Antony Whitaker: And don't forget to subscribe and leave us a rating and review on the Apple podcast app. So, to wrap up Martha Lynn, thank you for being our guest on this week's episode of the Grow My Salon Business Podcast.
[01:04:23] Martha Lynn: Thanks for having me.
[01:04:24] Antony Whitaker: It's been really good. It's been really fun talking to you.
[01:04:27] Martha Lynn: Yeah, always.
[01:04:29] Antony Whitaker: Thank you for listening to today's podcast If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at Grow My Salon business.com or on Facebook and Instagram at Grow My Salon business and if you enjoy tuning into our podcast make sure that you subscribe like and share it with your friends Until next time this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success