Kevin: Hello and welcome back, strangers of the galaxy, to Subspace Radio.
It's our big 50th episode, Rob.
Rob: Hooray!
Who woulda thunk that just a out of the blue message by Kevin Yank to
Rob Lloyd would, uh, after I did a post about Strange New Worlds would
lead on to 50 episodes of two white guys talking about something nerdy.
Kevin: You know, Rob, that just means that neither of us are the type of person
who is willing to admit defeat easily.
That's all.
We're both stubborn.
Too stubborn to stop.
Rob: Despite, it's, it's our own Kobayashi Maru, right here, you know,
Kevin: I've been re watching, uh, Prodigy on Netflix to give them the, uh,
the views, the views in their logs to hopefully get a season three approved.
But, uh, yeah, I recently watched, uh, the episode where Dal does the
Kobayashi Maru test again and again.
Rob: And that's the one with all the, uh, is that all the holograms
of with, uh, Jimmy Deon and, uh, Rene Auberjonois . And, and, uh,
Kevin: It's a good one.
I gotta say Time Amok is my, at this point, is my favorite
episode of season one.
The one where they're in different time frames and Rok-Tahk spends a long time
alone and teaches herself so much maths in order to fix the the warp drive
and basically grows up in one episode.
Rob: I saw something, someone online just, uh, uh, on, on, uh, Twitter.
We'll not call it x.
Uh, there are some, there are some hills I will die on.
Um, yeah.
But someone was, uh, uh, yeah, a lot of love for Time Amok, uh, online
at the moment because, uh, a lot of people are doing what you are doing
and I will be doing, um, instead of doing actual work and chores around
the house during my school holiday.
Kevin: To play to your predilections, Rob, it's a very Whovian, uh, Doctor
Who like episode where a character kind of experiences an entire lifetime
while everyone else just blinks their eye and, uh, completely changes and
grows as a result of the experience.
Rob: That is a very Steven Moffat way of, uh, uh, doing Doctor Who and yeah,
bringing that, those elements in.
So we've got Who back as well as, as now on Disney Plus and, uh, it's,
you know, it's, it's a wonderful time to be across all fandom.
Kevin: But we are here to immerse ourselves in not the
strongest that Star Trek has to offer, but perhaps the silliest.
That's, that's my opening gambit, is that Star Trek V: The Final Frontier,
is the silliest Star Trek movie.
For, for good and for ill.
Rob: Yes, it is.
It, it is William Shatner's magnum opus, the, the one that he'd been
wanting to do for so long because dear old Lenny was getting, uh,
so many directing opportunities.
William Shatner sp spat his, uh, prima donna, uh, dummy
and went, I wanna direct one.
And, uh, sadly, his entry into the Star Trek universe with his directorial debut,
one and only Star Trek directorial is, uh.
Yeah.
Um, I'm looking forward to, much has been criticized about the criticisms and about
the negativity of this, I'm really looking to find those, those gold nuggets that we
can really, you know, scrub away any dirt that, uh, or barnacles that hang onto it.
I know I'm
Kevin: There is good in this one.
It's just, uh, you gotta look past everything else to see it.
Rob: And what a way to celebrate 50 episodes by doing something,
uh, a bit out of the ordinary.
We will be going through the entire movie and we'll be
doing our own audio commentary.
So take that Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Kevin: There you go.
So if and when we make it to 100, we'll treat ourselves with a good movie maybe,
but we're gonna, gonna do our time here.
This is the one we have been dancing around, and I feel like it is a good
time to revisit Star Trek V because sometime in the next year or so, I
suspect we're going to get an episode of Strange New Worlds with Sybok in
it, and it will be good to have this somewhat fresh in our minds, I think.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, and they're, they're bending the, the continuity anyway, I
mean, so they're, yeah, with, with Pike meeting Shatner, I mean, uh, meeting,
uh, Kirk, so let's just have it.
Let's just have the two of them meet.
Let's have Spock and Sybok do stuff together.
They could do a whole, it was all a dream at the end if they want to,
or it's another musical episode.
No, we don't need that.
Kevin: So, uh, we are breaking from format with our fiftieth episode here, listener.
You can watch Star Trek V along with us.
We are going to be watching it in real time here, effectively recording a,
an audio commentary to this movie.
We're not the first to do it.
We are certainly not the best qualified to do it.
But, um, let's see what stands out to us.
What we've done here is we have cued up the film.
We are watching the version on Paramount+.
It is probably, I don't think they have done a director's cut of this
film, so no matter which version you're watching, you can probably time it
with what we're watching at this point.
Rob: Mm.
Kevin: Um, the important thing is a technical note to any of
you who are using podcast players that cut out slices of silence.
Or that, that you like to play us at 1.5×, you're going to want to slow
us down to 1.0 for this, and you're going to want to turn off that feature
that cuts out moments of silence, because otherwise we will get out of
sync with the movie you're watching.
Rob: And you don't want that.
Kevin: You don't want that,
Rob: There's enough to battle through with this movie, you
don't need those added hurdles.
Kevin: We're going to be talking about Scotty's head wound and you'll be going,
what are you, what are they talking about?
It's Uhura doing a fan dance.
And no one wants that confusion.
Rob: Yeah, look, yeah, two moments playing at the same time in our
heads or anybody else's heads is too much awkwardness to bear.
Um, but yes,
Kevin: So, so what we've done is we have queued up the film at the Paramount logo.
So when you start this film, the, it fades in on the mountain and the stars fly in
and form a circle around the mountain.
And then just as the word Paramount appears, that's where we've paused
it and we're going to count you in and you can press play with us.
And then we're, we're going to go.
Rob, do you have any other opening remarks you want to share before we get into this?
Or should we let the movie speak for itself?
Rob: Look, it's Star Trek V: The Final Frontier.
It did come out in the best year of cinema, 1989.
Uh, it
Kevin: Context is, good to get here.
Yeah.
Rob: it is the year of, um, uh, Dead Poets Society came out.
It is the year of Ghostbusters 2.
It's the year of the original, uh, Tim Burton Batman, which, uh, swept the pool.
Uh, field of Dreams.
There are incredible films in the year 1989.
Kevin: And in Star Trek context, this is three years after Star Trek
IV, the breakout mainstream hit.
Uh, and, uh, one year after the premiere of Star Trek: The Next Generation.
So this is the first original Star Trek movie that came out as Star Trek: The Next
Generation was airing on our televisions.
Rob: So yeah, surprising amount of, um, eyes focusing on this
and a lot of pressure on this to do well because after the, uh,
Kevin: Can they repeat the success of Star Trek IV?
I will spoil it now.
They cannot.
Rob: And also with, you know, the, the struggles of the first season
of, um, uh, Next Generation who find that that audience, and especially
a lot of fans going that this is now Star Trek, which is, uh, um,
which would never happen nowadays.
Obviously, we would never have any type of, not my version of a franchise.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.
Of course not.
Rob: I'm doing big, I'm doing big commas here.
Kevin: Well, let's get into it.
So, I'm going to count us in from five and we will hit play.
So,
Rob: On one, on, on
Kevin: Oh, good point, good point.
We will, we will press play on one.
Five, four, three, two, play.
All right.
Rob: Very ominous start.
Kevin: Woosh to white.
Rob: Whoosh to white, George Lucas would be very impressed.
Kevin: Here we are on the deserts of Nimbus 3 in the Neutral Zone.
So, this is, Rob, this is the first Star Trek film that I saw in cinemas live.
And, yeah, I remember it really well.
I remember, like, going to the candy bar and they had little
Enterprise pins for sale.
And this, this feeling that Star Trek was happening in a cinema live around me was,
uh, like, it really colored my experience.
Let's just say I really wanted to like this movie.
Rob: Well, my first cinematic experience of Star Trek was Star Trek VI, so
I remember watching this on TV as the premiere, and there was always
rumblings going around at the time.
Um, I do remember the rumblings of, oh, it wasn't.
You know, by the time it came to TV, there was already that, even though
there was no internet at the time, the word had got around about Star Trek V.
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah, this is, um, you know, the dry riverbed and the smoking holes.
It is ominous.
Rob: I did like the idea of sort of like a weapon that where they use
just rocks to fire, it gave it that.
Kevin: Yeah.
It's starting primitive, though.
Um, I, I think, oh, yeah, here we go.
There's the first, this overlay of the It wasn't, uh, it wasn't dusty enough,
so they have overlaid dust in post here.
The first signs of the budgetary limitations of this film.
Rob: We need more dust.
More!
Kevin: Yeah, here we go.
Field of empty holes.
Yeah, it's, it's evocative.
I'm, I'm trying to decide whether at this point I was like, in full, full
like, oh yeah, field of holes, this is awesome, or whether I was still kind
of reserving judgement at this point.
It's hard to put myself in the mind of the 11 year old Kevin Yank
watching this, not knowing that this was our laughing Vulcan yet.
Rob: Look, it's a, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a very interesting way to start,
uh, and, you know, a huge sci fi epic is just two guys in a desert talking about
their emotions, which I'm a big fan of.
Kevin: Yeah, I probably did not care for his teeth.
Those gross teeth are pretty gross.
So this is the first of Sybok's kind of like miracle healings and for me
one of the things that didn't work the first time I watched this movie,
but I wanted to pardon it, but it works less and less every time I watch
it is the vagary of Sybok's power.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: This feels like it's meant to be an allegory for like the TV
evangelist, right, who can wave his hand and shake someone by the shoulders
and convince them they're cured of something and, uh, and win their loyalty.
But there's not enough science in this science fiction to me like, okay, the
first one can be mysterious, but I am expecting at some point in the movie.
It will be explained what just happened here between these two
Rob: Yeah, it never is.
I mean, you kind of have to jump the, to the conclusions yourself with,
when you find out what he actually is, which is about to be revealed.
But, to have the big cold opener reveal this guy is a Vulcan
doesn't really work for me.
I'm going, we've seen Vulcans.
Kevin: We haven't seen laughing Vulcans.
Notice the horn
Rob: We have to be laughing Vulcans, it's very true.
But if there was some connection to say, cause Vulcans do have that
connection to the mind with Vulcan mind melds and all that type of
stuff, but it's just this case of, he just holds them and looks at them.
So it's that case
Kevin: Check out my ears.
Rob: it
Kevin: you noticed my ears?
Rob: I love how he says it, I love, you're a Vulcan?
Kevin: So this, um, infamously was meant to be Sean Connery.
They wanted Sean Connery for this role.
Rob: Yes, they did, yes.
Kevin: And, uh, Sha Ka Ree is named after Sean Connery.
Rob: And of course, we have the wonderful Jerry Goldsmith tune back.
Kevin: Look, there are many things that don't work in this
picture, but the music works great.
Rob: And this Jerry Goldsmith comes back for the whole score, doesn't he, I
Kevin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's been away for a while, and now he's back.
Rob: Yeah,
Kevin: uh, he reminds us of why we missed him.
Rob: Very cool.
Kevin: Just the white lettering.
And they're slightly out of focus, like they're just a little,
a little fat, those letters.
It's the attention to detail that matters.
Rob, there's so much I'm gonna tell you.
I'm gonna foreshadow for later.
The biggest sin this movie makes for me, the thing that I cannot forgive it
for is a simple piece of attention to detail, and I wonder if you will be able
to guess what it is before it comes.
David Warner.
Rob: David Warner, great to have you back.
Kevin: in this picture,
Rob: Laurence Luckinbill.
Kevin: Yeah.
Look, he does alright with what he's given, I think.
Rob: think so too.
He's got, he's got a nice charm about him and, um, you kind of believe
in some ways his, uh, his descent into desperation near the end.
Kevin: This opening, um, matte painting here of the sunrise in Yosemite is
reminiscent of the Vistas of Vulcan we've seen in the previous two films.
Rob: Yeah.
I do miss a good old matte painting.
I'm sounding more and more older
Kevin: Although, there's plenty to be had in this film.
And here's Kirk, uh, scaling El Capitan in his, uh, In his fluorescent
striped bloomers, I'm going to say.
Rob: That now there's been never any mention of Kirk's, uh, uh, enjoyment of
rock climbing or, or free, free climbing.
Kevin: No, it doesn't really come back, does it?
It's never seen before and never seen again.
But it fits, right?
Like, Kirk is a daredevil.
He's someone who likes to feel on the edge of mortality.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: So this fits for me.
Uh, I like this.
And it's also a very, it's a, it's a big left shift from what we've had in
the previous films, what you love so much, Rob, is the, the aging warrior.
Like, this is Kirk being portrayed as young again.
Rob: Oh yeah.
Kevin: head of hair, nothing suspicious about it.
Rob: Big full of hair, big full head of hair, big, you know,
big climbing up a big rock.
Um, he is, yeah, he is very much, I am still at the prime of my life.
Which is quite an interesting turn, uh, that maybe now he's having his
mid life crisis, whereas before he was like facing his mortality, maybe
they flipped it around the wrong ways.
Kevin: Yeah,
Rob: He's at the denial stage of his grief, I don't know.
Kevin: This is all good stuff.
Like these are real shots of El Capitan with like the, it wasn't William Shatner
to be sure, but the person climbing the crevasse, like that's a part of
El Capitan, um, and we're, we are, I think with this shot here, if not very
shortly to come, transitioning to a set in the parking lot of El Capitan.
This is still, this is still real mountain, I think.
You can tell because you haven't seen, oh, there he is.
Will Shatner.
Now that wall is looking distinctly plaster.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Here we go.
Rob: Love the, uh, the three day growth on Shatner there.
Kevin: So yeah, this is like a forced perspective.
They're on a, in a car park, in a, in a, overlooking the, uh, valley.
Here's McCoy.
I love fretting McCoy.
Oh, the scarf, yeah.
Rob: Love the scarf and love the,
Kevin: The
Rob: the denim and the fluffy collar.
Kevin: Yeah.
So, yeah, if Kirk is allowed to be old, uh, young here, McCoy is older than ever.
Rob: That's a good gag.
That's a cute, that's a, it's a classic gag, it's an old gag, but I love it.
Kevin: Yeah, McCoy's done it a few times and they lean into it more each time.
I like it too.
Look out!
So, what do you make of Spock in this jet boot scene here, Rob?
Rob: Look, he, they very much lean into the alien aspect of him going, I don't
know anything about human at all, I'm
Kevin: Yes, I reckon, I agree with you.
I think Spock has never been more Data here.
And it's interesting that this is, this is at the same time as season two
or filming around season one, season two of The Next Generation when they
were creating the character of Data.
I think they were fascinated by no longer us observing the alien, but
the alien observing us in return.
Rob: Yes, very much so, and that's one of the great developments, especially
going back and watching classic ones, how there's that underlying level of, you're
different to us, you gotta be more like us, we're the right way of doing things,
um, It's always from the human outside looking at Spock, whereas it's great with,
y'know, the introduction of Data, Data reflecting back on humanity is, uh, always
what, y'know, good sci fi should be about.
Kevin: You must be one with the rock is a line that will
come back later in the film.
There's the fall.
Look, we have said it before and it's worth saying again, Leonard
Nimoy committing at a hundred and ten percent to this silly, silly stuff.
Rob: time.
No matter how bad, no matter how good, he is all you can always guarantee
Kevin: can see the wire coming out of Shatner's back so you can see
them, that they're hanging sideways and Spock's at a very weird angle.
Rob: Yeah.
Classic.
Kevin: this is what they do when they're on holiday.
Kirk scales a mountain, Spock pesters Kirk in jet boots and goes,
why don't you just do it this way?
And McCoy just frets.
Rob: I did like the fact that we get a bit more time of
them just hangin out socially.
Kevin: Yeah, so yes, one of the things I love this movie for, but I think is
probably a trap, is the fan service.
Like, the amount at the start that they give us, like, just spending
time with these characters as people on holiday, I love it as a fan.
I'm not sure it makes it a good movie.
Rob: Would you ever want to play slightly moist pool with me,
Kevin: Slightly moist pool, yeah.
Rob: It's not completely drenching the balls, but they're just,
Kevin: I, can't, speaking of the vagaries of this film, the amount of
water in that pool is somewhat vague.
Here at the start it looks like it's a thin film of water that just kinda slows
down the balls as they move around what seems to otherwise be a glass table.
Uh, and later in the film it seems like a deep pool that you could drown in.
Rob: Exactly.
Do we, do we want to mention the three breasted cat dancer?
Kevin: Less said the better.
She'll be back.
Rob: That's called shelving in improv.
Kevin: I, uh, yeah.
So here's David Warner smoking a cigarette.
Rob: Oh, he's great.
Kevin: Speaking of doing a lot with a little burp.
There you go.
There's a sync point for you, listeners.
If the burp was not exactly in time with mine, fix it immediately.
Um, there's a Romulan ambassador in this.
Like, she doesn't do a whole lot.
Um, the fact that the Romulans are kept alive in canon here is that's
an interesting aspect of this film.
Rob: And she doesn't really, doesn't really behave very Romulan
esque, especially like the way it's been, uh, uh, lampooned so much in
Kevin: No, she's pretty and sarcastic.
That's pretty much it.
Rob: And doesn't have the usual, uh, bowl haircut,
Kevin: No.
Um,
Rob: I'm okay with, I love a bit of variety within my cultures in Star Trek.
Kevin: I don't know the actor, but she seems to have at least some
Asian background, and I'm not sure I've seen an Asian Romulan before.
Rob: No, I don't think, I can't,
Kevin: nice look on the, the, the race.
So all this stuff of, uh, The Paradise City here, they were very proud that
they had built this set in the desert.
And, uh, some have said that one of the mistakes this film makes is it
spent its money in the wrong places.
And, uh, we're gonna see some, uh, some effects shots of starships soon
that will, uh, bear some criticism.
Because, uh, I think they, instead of paying Industrial Light and Magic to
do nice effects, they paid someone to build these plaster walls in the desert.
Rob: They certainly do, uh, we do see them run out of money the, the more we go on.
Kevin: This would be a Quarks if it were made today.
Rob: Heh heh heh heh.
Kevin: They had to wait for the grid to pop up in front of the CRT
screen before they could use it.
Rob: Oh,
Kevin: It's a fine line.
It's a fine line this Laurence Luckinbill treads because he's
the antagonist, but he needs to be forgivable so that you can feel his
sacrifice at the end of the movie.
Rob: And there needs to be a charm there as well, there needs
Kevin: He is very charming, yes.
I think that was probably the first word on the casting sheet for this character.
Charming.
Rob: Like, genuine charm, that's the
Kevin: my favorite model in Star Trek, that Starbase.
And this is the shot from the end of Star Trek IV, when they find the Enterprise A.
Rob: Log entry, log entry by Scotty, normally it's by
Kirk, and only Kirk, or maybe
Kevin: Poor, broken starship.
Rob: Uhura's very sassy in this section.
Kevin: is, uh, yeah, I love her bags of chips on her hip.
Rob: Oh, just the,
Kevin: So, um, they're playing up a romance and this is, this is to me,
this feels a lot like Troi and Worf in late Star Trek: The Next Generation
where they just kind of go, look, we've got a male and a female character.
We need to give them each something to do.
Why don't we tease a romance?
Rob: Now, Uhura's
Kevin: like it.
I've, I, I, a lot of people don't like the Scotty and Uhura
romance, but I think it's cute.
Rob: look, it would have worked better if they didn't make him the
brunt of so many, brunt of all many, so many jokes in this, uh, one.
Uhura's hair is amazing.
Kevin: uh, it's amazing,
Rob: hair looks outstanding.
Kevin: It's sculpted in marble.
Rob: That little curl just at the front,
Kevin: Oh, yeah, I hadn't noticed the curl.
All the boys get, uh, the sideburns, the Star Trek sideburns,
so she gets the curl, I guess.
She's beautiful.
And again, this is some of the, this is some of the most interesting
acting that Nichelle Nichols is given to do in the entire, uh, canon.
Rob: the, in the movies especially, she isn't given much at all.
Kevin: Hikaru Sulu is wearing some kind of kimono in the forest
because he's Japanese, obviously.
Rob: it?
Yeah.
Kevin: It's a
Rob: Oh, Walter leans into this so well, he's so good.
Kevin: He's having a great time, you can tell.
He is not taking it too seriously.
They're all having a great time with this stuff because it's more than they're
usually given in these films to do.
Oh, look at that communicator grille.
You can see where it got bent.
The prop's a little bent at the tip of his finger there.
Someone got in trouble for bending the communicator grille.
Rob: He's got such a great voice.
Kevin: All right, it's the row, row, row your boat.
No, that's at the end of the, that's at the end of the movie.
This is the marsh-mellons scene.
Rob: I thought they started here as
Kevin: Oh, maybe they are.
Yeah, maybe they do.
Rob: Yes, because then, um, uh, Spock brings out his, uh, his lute
or lyre and plays that at the end.
Kevin: So speaking of me wanting to love this movie as an 11 year old, one of the
first things I did after I saw this film is I went and bought the novelization,
which has expanded scenes, like there is more story provided that didn't make it
to the scene, whether that's based on cut scenes or the author of the novelization
took Spock took artistic liberties to flesh it out, but one of the things that's
explained is the marsh-mellon gag that Spock creates a marsh-mellon and McCoy
kind of like chuckles and goes along with it, but they never actually explain what
the deal is with the marsh-mellons and in the book, McCoy is playing a prank
on Spock where he has reprogrammed the library computer predicting that Spock
is going to look up how to do a camp out, he changes the library computer to
introduce, to change the word marshmallow to marsh-mellon, so that when Spock says
it, he will know that Spock was studying up for his camp out, and, and it's, you
know, taking the piss, taking it, taking it, taking it out on his old friend Spock.
But none of this is on screen, all that is left of this on screen is, hmm,
marsh-mellon, interesting, and, um, this is, I don't know how that happened.
Like, did they cut the other scene and just not bother to rewrite this one?
At this point, were they intending to shoot that other
scene, but they ran out of money?
Like, how did that happen that there are these half ideas left in this film?
Rob: Look, these are, these are the audio commentaries where we need, uh,
you know, someone who was actually on the film, and we actually have, no I don't,
we don't have anyone here, it's just, we don't know anybody just ourselves.
Um, maybe something's revealed in the, uh, DVD audio commentary release of it.
It's,
Kevin: So, Kirk says here, I've always known that I'll die alone,
which is a very big promise.
Uh, and it serves a very small point at the end of this film, but it creates this
thing of, okay, do we accept that Kirk has this premonition that he will die alone?
Do we, should we accept that as fact?
And, in Generations, when he falls off that bridge, and he's, uh, he's there
with Picard in the moment of his death, does that mean that he didn't die?
Like, what is going on with that dying alone?
Rob: It's, for me it's one of the few things I really like,
I think it's a really beautiful
Kevin: A marsh-mellon.
There you go.
Rob: Camping out.
Kevin: Marsh-mellons.
Rob: Mush, mush, marsh, marsh, marsh-mellons
Kevin: Because I gather DeForest Kelly here knows what the gag
is, because he's playing it up.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Yeah, I don't get it.
That marshmallow is suspiciously long as well.
I've never seen a
Rob: It's a very, looks like it's two together.
As I was saying, it's one of the few things I really like about this, I
think it's actually quite poetic.
Kevin: thing.
Rob: die alone thing I like because Kirk has made a family out of Starfleet
and these people he relies on, he knows that they will always have his back
and they will always come for him.
Kevin: So he can't die if he's not alone, is what he's
Rob: Yeah, is that idea of when I die I will not have anyone
there who will have my back.
Um, whether it's,
Kevin: that is true in Generations.
He is away from his family.
Rob: Yeah, he is away from them.
I did, uh, I always saw it more of the idea that nobody was there.
Even, even having Picard looking at him going, oh, that's a shame.
As he says, oh my.
Little bit of harmony there.
Not
Kevin: Yeah, that's not bad.
So, the tone of this film bears remarking on.
Like, it is obvious they were trying to do what worked about Star Trek IV.
They're like, Oh!
Oh, people like comedy in their Star Trek!
And, so, our characters, like, the, it's, Sybok and the, the Nimbus 3 stuff
is played relatively straight, but all of the stuff with our characters
here has been played for comedy.
Literally every single scene with them so far in this film, and we're, we're
nearly half an hour in, has been comic.
Uh, and that continues through much of this film, and, uh, I feel like
they over corrected, like they learned the lesson of Star Trek IV too well.
Rob: Well, it is that case of, it works as Star Trek IV because the comedy
comes from a mission that they have.
They
Kevin: Yeah, that's right.
Rob: save the Earth, but the comedy comes as they are on task, whereas this, they're
just, they're just stuffing around.
There's no purpose to the comedy coming.
I mean, I like that element of going, let's just, I like a bit of an element,
probably not in a major motion picture, but I love them just hanging out and
goofing around and all that type of stuff, but it works so well in Star Trek IV
because you are in the parameters of a movie and you need to be on that mission,
Kevin: hmm.
Rob: and the comedy comes from that.
Kevin: I forget what space probe that is meant to be.
It's got a plaque similar to the Voyager probe, so I think it's meant to be like,
Pioneer something something, Pioneer 16?
I'd have to look it up.
One of the things we cannot do when we aren't editing our episode is
look things up on Memory Alpha.
So, this is the Klingon bridge set from Star Trek IV with a periscope added.
And, uh, these are, this is like a younger Klingon captain and
crew than we've typically seen.
Rob: I love the, um, I love Jerry Goldsmith's, um, Klingon music and
Kevin: Playing with the theme in a new way, yeah,
Rob: the Klingon theme and how operatic it is, and so it really feels cinematic.
I know it's in a movie, obviously with a huge orchestra, but it
just, those tones are great.
If only that theme was incor incorporated every time a Klingon was around.
Kevin: yeah.
I was, um, I was chuckling at the reaction when they blew up the space probe there.
The female officer in the background, she kind of, she smiled broadly
and kind of gave a little cheer at the destruction of the space junk.
These are not serious Klingons.
Rob: No, these, these aren't the top notch, uh, you know, uh, soldiers
who will go into Sto-vo-kor.
These these are almost like the teenagers, they're going, alright, okay,
let's, you know, that's their version of, you know, knocking letter boxes.
Kevin: We've seen a few of those Klingon captains that are like big
fish in small ponds or, um You know, they're, they're commanders of a
small ship on a small mission, and then they get the Enterprise in its
sights, and they're like, this is our opportunity to make a name for ourself.
Oh, no, it isn't.
Rob: Uhura has never looked better without a good bit of backlighting behind her.
Beautiful shot.
Kevin: Yeah,
Rob: That's a, uh, Steven Spielberg trick, in cinema, using a lot of backlight.
Look at that.
Beautiful.
Kevin: Yeah, Bill Shatner, obviously, uh, I'm not sure if we've said it explicitly
since we hit play is the director of this movie and the star so you know playing
Kirk and directing in for the first time.
Okay here we go so we had some ugly space shots of the uh it's worth noticing
the the reflection there that is a reflection of a still picture projected
in front of them but it is nevertheless an attempt at something which is a
reflection of of an effect shot on glass.
Taking big swings.
This takes, this movie does take some big swings.
Does not generally connect on many of them, but it takes the swings.
Rob: That's a lovely, uh, lovely setup of a shot.
I like the, the, the placement of the actors.
It's a little bit, it's a little bit staged, a little bit theatrical,
a good bit of flair and in a, in a good, uh, setup, not a
usual three, three shot setup.
Kevin: So what I'm told is Industrial Light Magic, who famously did the
beautiful effects work for the previous movies, asked for too much money this time
around, and the production said, well, we don't need Industrial Light Magic,
we can do it with some newbies, and, uh, they were in over their heads, much as,
much as the, um, the team behind Star Trek: The Motion Picture was in over their
heads, but what happened on Star Trek: The Motion Picture is they spent way too much
money to dig themselves out of that hole.
Here, they just didn't dig themselves out of the hole.
They accepted the poor,
Rob: I, I love the, the shuttle coming in.
I love the smoke underneath it and they, they start walking
out even before it lands.
I think that's
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
Rob: I do like how Scotty's developed this, this uniform now of the white
skivvy underneath with the black vest.
Yeah.
They've each got their own kind of little bit of a look.
Kevin: So this is, um, you know, the, the glitching computer in the turbolift.
Again, the, like the broken Enterprise is a bad move, cause Star Trek III was about
feeling the absence of the Enterprise and right at the end they give it back to us.
And I think they, they just got too original, they got too creative.
Rob: Right there we did hear, uh, Leonard Nimoy go, yeah, instead
of yes, which is very unspock like for me, Spock going, yeah.
Kevin: Uh, the woman here with the, with the yellow, um, cord on her shoulder
there, that is William Shatner's real life daughter, playing a cameo.
And the admiral on the screen is Harve Bennett, producer of this
and many other Star Trek films.
I like Go Climb a Rock.
Oh
Rob: Look, I love that combo.
If I ever was to do a classic era, um, uh, cosplay, I do like that jacket.
I do like that.
It's, like, it's a recreational Starfleet jacket with the,
with the t shirt underneath.
Kevin: Yeah.
That's a good combo.
Rob: I never was a big fan of Shatner's setup, the clothing
that he wore in, um, Star Trek IV.
That was kind of a carryover from Star Trek III, the weird button up thing
and the weird pattern on the front.
This is kind of the same thing that Scotty wore, and I do like that.
I'm talking fashion of, uh, the 23rd
Kevin: It's worth talking about.
I was just looking at McCoy.
There was a quick shot of McCoy there before where you could almost
read the labels on his denim jacket.
And, uh, I wanted to see what brand he was wearing.
Rob: Harve does really well.
Kevin: Who Harve?
Rob: Have BHarvett.
He did well.
Kevin: Walk around the bridge.
End of speech.
Let's go to work.
This is good stuff.
Rob: Klingon.
Kevin: Yeah.
Muster, mister.
Rob: Must've Muster, mister.
Kevin: This is good stuff.
So this has this feeling of the crew coming together and making stuff happen.
And that feels That feels real.
All his water bottles say NCC 1701.
I want one of those water bottles for the record.
I miss my old chair.
And sad Spock.
Rob: Spock genuinely looked upset before going, I'm really sorry, captain.
I do love that blending of civvies on the ship.
So when you've got like the jeans and the Federation jacket, I do like that combo.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: She really does have wonderful muscles.
Kevin: Pah Haha
Rob: He does too.
I mean, yeah, there should be love given, like, just the, the leather singlet top
vest is, uh, not often seen in Klingons.
The
Kevin: She's wearing a lot of makeup.
I don't feel like we've ever seen a, uh, a female Klingon
wear that much makeup before or
Rob: Klingon kids today, Kevin.
Kevin: Oh, this kills me.
The popping out boing.
Yeah.
Someone spent a lot of time on that prop as well as that
hairstyle of that young woman.
Rob: It's a, it's a very, it's a very, like, 60s original series hairstyle.
Kevin: Yeah, the, the beehive.
General Korrd.
Yes.
Rob: A
Kevin: I like that building, building up the, building up the character there.
It doesn't amount to much, but it's good.
They don't talk about Sinjin, whatever his name is, David Warner's character.
No praise for him.
Rob: Is he just hanging out?
Kevin: I heard he smokes a lot of cigarettes.
Very not Romulan, this performance.
Rob: No, not at all.
Kevin: She, that actor has never seen an episode of Star Trek with a
Rob: we go.
Kevin: Hey, so Spock recognizes his brother.
And chooses not to say anything.
Gulp.
Perhaps I have.
I will not explain it to you now, for that would spoil the film.
Rob: No, we need to build up the drama.
Kevin: Like, literally, what is the next thing that happens
in that moment on the bridge?
Perhaps I have, Captain.
And Kirk goes, oh well.
Rob: I love those pants.
I love the classic movie
Kevin: the silhouette, yeah.
That, that, that outfit was designed for the silhouette it would have in that shot.
Rob: with the boots and the, I do want Kirk's jacket.
I'd love it.
Kevin: Young student.
He was
not my brother.
Rob: I do like the, uh, inclusion of the ship's
Kevin: The ship's wheel?
Rob: Wheel.
Yeah.
Kevin: Yeah,
Rob: Roddenberry would have hated it because he didn't like
the connections to the Navy.
Kevin: yeah.
Rob: love the seafaring references.
Kevin: This was I believe a redress of Ten Forward and a lot of the corridors
are, you can, when you look at them you realize they are Enterprise D corridors.
Rob: This is where they started, yeah, from Star Trek V and VI, they
redressed, um, Next Generation sets.
Kevin: Yeah, because they were there.
Rob: Cheap.
It's got the compass, I think, on the side, or the
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Star reader,
Kevin: The sextant.
I want a, I want a super cut of all the times Uhura pretended to be
having transmission difficulties.
Rob: She repeats the exact same words that the captain says really well, and
she adds her own little flair to it.
Kevin: So the Bird of Prey is established.
It is a plot point later in the film that they forget that the Bird of Prey
is coming because they're so caught up in everything else that's going on.
So this, uh, shuttle rescue mission
Rob: The desert
Kevin: Uh.
Yeah, this is, conceptually, I like everything that's
happening, like, plot wise.
I love the idea of them going on a commando mission to rescue them with a
shuttle, but none of this is pulled off.
Ugh, it looks cheap, and not just a special effects shot, like,
they built that, they built that city in the desert and it looks
like a terrible matte painting.
Rob: It looks like a horrible matte.
I'm there going, that's a matte painting.
Kevin: Um, yeah, uh, and the desert jumpers, yeah, those, those, uh, if
we did a, um, a ranking of Starfleet uniforms, those brown desert jumpers
would have to come in pretty low.
Rob: But I like how they have a different outfit to go on guerrilla missions.
I
Kevin: And it must be somewhat practical, like it's more camouflage
than a maroon vest, I guess.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: But it doesn't look particularly comfy in the desert.
It looks pretty snuggly.
Rob: Klingon doing, um, Chekov doing very good captaining here.
Kevin: Oh yeah, I love, I love Chekov as captain.
Not the first time.
Star Trek II, he was under the, uh, the control of Khan, pretending to
be the commander of the Enterprise.
I don't think we've ever seen Pavel really be captain, like be responsible
for the decisions being made.
We've only seen him be the warm body in the seat.
Rob: We have to get their attention.
Kevin: What do you think of the fan dance?
Rob: Look.
Uhura, Nichelle Nichols can do no wrong, even if it's, you know, a very Bugs
Bunny way to distract the bad guys.
Kevin: Yeah.
I don't think there is a version of this scene that is great, but
I think there are versions of the scene that could be better.
Uh, a lot of this falls down for the same reason that everything in
this segment falls down, is just like, the production looks cheap.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Uh, I don't know if filming at night is hard or what, but
Rob: and Uhura wasn't actually on the shuttle, so they would've had
to spend another couple of hours to get her down just to dance,
Kevin: No, no, surely she was on the shuttle.
I don't know.
We can't go back and look.
We'd have to watch it again, Rob.
She did her hair especially for the occasion.
Rob: Mm hmm.
Kevin: That would have taken a while.
Rob: Oh,
Kevin: Oh no!
Rob: Uh, did I actually hear them say as they were moving forward?
I thought I heard one of them say, she's naked.
I swear, I swear one of them said, she's naked.
Yeah, they had a good lookout, if you know what I mean.
Kevin: Security failure.
One more in a long line of Star Trek security failures.
Open the gate!
Okay.
Hold
Rob: Hold your horse, captain.
Kevin: Yes.
I like the, the, the tricorder strapped on the shoulder and like that's a cool move.
Whoever came up with that was pay them extra, more of
the, uh, blue, horned horses.
Rob: Sulu doing really well.
I wonder if that's George Takei actually running, running the
Kevin: Uh, I doubt it.
Rob: Well, that's not George.
But he rolls
Kevin: shoot.
Rob: I like how
Kevin: like,
Rob: off.
Kevin: yes,
Rob: off to show that it's actually
Kevin: to shoot.
See my face, it's me.
Rob: I want you to bloody
Kevin: me Yeah.
The, um, the fact that the phaser beam moves, that's a particularly Star Trek
original series effect of, like, it's not a locked off phaser and it's not
that you hold the phaser and shoot and the beam is completely stable.
Like, if you move your phaser, the beam changes its aim with it.
It makes them look more dangerous.
The fact that you could like sweep a room with it if you weren't careful.
Yeah.
Yeah,
Rob: The shields?
Love the shields.
Kevin: The shields are cool.
The phaser hits, I could have been done better, but I love
the beams and I love the props.
Like them better than the pew, the bullet version of phasers that we get later on.
I really like the beam.
Rob: I did like Spock Vulcan neck pinching
Kevin: Yes, of course.
Pinching the horse.
She's back in her uniform on the shuttle.
All right, Kirk goes in and he's about to have his wrestling match
with the three breasted cat lady.
Rob: Many naughty lines I could say here, but I won't, cause
we are a respectable podcast.
Kevin: There she is.
Lots of animal sounds in this, trying to sell it.
She makes bird sounds, she makes cheetah sounds, she makes lion sounds.
Rob: And there's a little bit of James Brown in there.
Hey!
Kevin: The, uh, salesman on the TV is particularly Next Gen season one.
Rob: That's a lot more water.
Kevin: Yeah, exactly!
That's what I'm saying!
How much water is in there?
Rob: Well done, David Warner.
You had very little to do, but you make each line work.
Kevin: Yeah, and they've captured Uhura in the shuttle somewhere along the way here.
Bones has never looked more tired.
You can feel that this was a real night shoot.
Mm hmm.
Rob: There's Nichelle.
Kevin: So Spock's collar is closed at the front and, uh, Kirk's
Rob: The others are
Kevin: the front, yeah.
Maybe he wears it backwards.
It looks cool.
Rob: Oh, It's Sybok
Kevin: Sybok!
Kirk's like, what?
That's a good Spock line.
Rob: That's awkward.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Oh,
Kevin: I like how Kirk was just watching the movie there.
He's like, what's the next guy gonna say?
Leonard Nimoy, they did not pay him enough.
Rob: No.
Kevin: They probably did, but they did not pay him enough.
Rob: Well, if he wasn't being paid enough, then the others definitely weren't.
He is charming.
He is so
Kevin: is very charming, yeah.
Rob: Oh, he was so convincing as captain.
Kevin: Some good alien makeups in the background there.
Yes.
There you go.
That is a wrap on Nimbus 3.
Rob: a good opening shot.
Why didn't they have that for the first time?
Cox, no, sorry, Cock, would you, dear me, Spock, Kirk, and
McCoy came back to the ship.
Instead of seeing the butt end of it behind them, in front of
the building, that shot was quite lovely, considering it's not ILM.
Kevin: They may have used it from another movie.
Rob: Killer cams?
Kelly cams?
Have
Kevin: Kellicams, yes!
I don't know if this is the first mention of Kellicams,
but, uh, it's not the only one.
We've had a couple of mentions of
Rob: Is it a specific Klingon Is it a Klingon measurement, or just,
Kevin: Yes, it's the Klingon measurement of distance.
Rob: Kellicams.
Kevin: Yeah.
Oh, he did something for real.
Rob: He's good, he's actually good there.
Kevin: He's good.
I want Captain Chekov now.
Everyone wants Captain Sulu.
Rob: Chek—
Kevin: So, yes, the ship not moving, the shuttle looking very cheap.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: And again, the ship not moving.
So this is another, like, um, first of a starship in a window
with a moving camera in the scene.
But it doesn't work because the perspective doesn't shift
when the camera moves around.
So you can tell it's just kind of a backlit image there in the near distance.
But yeah, there, the Enterprise out of, uh, out of focus over his shoulder.
Kirk's, uh, collar is different than everyone else's.
Rob: He is the captain.
Kevin: It's like, dammit, I don't care about regulations.
Open my collar.
I'm not just the director, I'm the actor.
I'm the captain, dammit.
Let me do something.
Rob: I can climb rocks.
I can sing.
In harmony.
Kevin: I like the red.
B as in barricade.
Again, this is like,
Rob: That's very cool.
I love that.
That's very cool.
Kevin: It's It can't be serious.
And suddenly they all know, like, the secret code of Barricade.
Like, I don't know.
It's got the shape.
It's like someone did a rough draft and then they never polished it.
Rob: No.
Kevin: These sections of the script.
Rob: It's a cool idea that kinda happens from the earlier films like
in Wrath of Khan where they're kinda making it up as they go along and
they do certain things like that, but Yeah, It isn't polished and refined.
Kevin: Yeah, yeah.
I like what they're going for, but they There's not the
attention to detail to achieve it.
Uh, I like, I like anytime Sulu does something for the first time and
looks like he has grave misgivings.
I don't know.
I just do the orders.
Zoop, zoop,
Rob: Lowering shields.
Do do do do do do.
Kevin: Whoosh.
I think the only thing that sells it is the fact that these, like
these crash things, you can tell they did some of this for real.
So it gets points for that, like it feels tangible.
But it doesn't actually feel fast or dangerous.
Rob: And that's so,
Kevin: The slowest warp takeoff I've ever seen.
Rob: Oh, it's like they've literally had cutouts and they've got little,
Kevin: Yeah, everything's hanging on a string.
Very
Rob: do like the net.
I like the sound of the net going up.
That was a good
Kevin: Oh yeah.
Yep, yep.
Very quiet in the crash shuttle.
That rock gun again.
I feel like if you're Kirk on your own ship, you would say, I can
afford to get shot by a rock gun.
I'll take that hit, if it's the difference between my ship getting kidnapped or not.
They'll fix the rock gun shot.
Ow, that stung a bit.
Rob: I'll take the annoyance.
There we go.
Kevin: that, uh, Vulcans are meant to be super strong.
Rob: Yeah, humans are quite, you know, weak compared to the strength of the
Klingons, strength of the Vulcans, uh,
Kevin: Again, the, the, the wire work of Kirk being flung around there was not
super convincing, but I like a reminder that Vulcans are alien and different
With the rock.
Good line, well delivered, the shoot him.
Rob: There's many things he could have done.
Just not shoot him.
Like, there's not just A and B.
Kevin: But when your captain yells shoot him, I feel like
you should shoot him, you know?
Rob: Hmm.
Kevin: Maybe it's cause it's his brother.
Rob: But like, did you punch him out?
Do you Vulcan neck pinch him?
Do you, there's many ways to subdue someone.
Kevin: Yeah, there's a sense of like, there's some childhood bullying at
play here, Spock's uh, being triggered.
know no such thing.
And this guy from the, the hole in the desert, he didn't get any more
lines after the opening the gate, but
Rob: And he was very good in the opening.
He's very good in the opening scene in his hand gestures when he says you're
a Vulcan, and the tilting of the head.
Very good.
Kevin: Yeah.
Do you wish you got to see the, Uhura
Rob: wish you'd seen all of their, all their fears,
Kevin: At the start of the movie, we got a gratuitous fanservice
scene with every single character.
And then we are robbed of what I feel like would be the true character revealing
scenes that the plot would afford us here.
So again, the tone, this is the Star Trek IV tone creeping in here.
Be changed.
How many times have I been directed in an improv scene to be changed?
Kirk is not changed by the news that Spock has a brother.
Rob: I have a half brother.
There he is.
He's changed right there.
Kevin: It's, yeah, he's hamming it up, unfortunately, and
Rob: It is.
Kevin: so no one can tell him to stop it.
There are two, uh, Kirk's at this point in the canon.
There's the serious, stately warrior, um, and then there's
the, like, bumbling comic relief.
And they try to live in the same man in this film.
Rob: Yes.
Yeah.
I think it's Shatner definitely wanting to lean in more going, I'm, I can be funny.
I'm funny
Kevin: got the laughs in the last film.
Rob: Yeah, that scene, it's a detriment to the scene that they played it for laughs.
Well, he was playing
Kevin: It was in the script too though, right?
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kevin: That or they changed it.
Rob: But, um, yeah, DeForest Kelley and, uh, Leonard Nimoy are playing
it straight, but he's definitely trying to milk as much out of it.
Kevin: Yeah.
And De gets some comic lines, but that's always been his role in the three of them.
You want me to hold him, Jim, I think is a funny line.
Rob: That's a great.
You want me to hold him?
Come on.
Okay, you want to knock
Kevin: But
Rob: Okay, I'll do it.
Kevin: Kirk should have been the one to say this isn't a laughing
matter, but it ends up being Bones.
Nice escape sequence.
Rob: That's very high roof.
Kevin: Yeah.
This is a nice clown scene.
Again, playing it straight, but it's funny because they're playing it straight.
Rob: This is the dimensions of a starship kind of out of whack just for
the gag, like, having a roof that tall,
Kevin: uh huh.
Rob: didn't really have roofs, you know, ceilings that high,
Kevin: the brig, you know.
Rob: It is the brig, so most of the brigs we've seen, they're very low.
Like barely low ceiling.
The only high ceilings we see are down in the docking bay or the cargo hold.
Kevin: You might have to imprison a Nausicaan or something.
Oof, those warp trails.
They just did not have the time or money to say, not good enough, do it again.
Rob: It's weird, like Sybok,
Kevin: This is very, uh, sorry, this is very Enterprise D.
They did nothing to redress those hallways.
What were you saying?
Rob: Just like having, having Sybok on set just makes it look more, I don't
know what it is, it looks more TV show esque, but when you had him out on
location or stuff like that, it really had that reality to it, which was good.
But now it just feels like we're on
Kevin: I feel like it's the lighting.
Cause you can do a bridge set and make it feel cinematic.
We've
Rob: The lighting is very bright.
I mean, we are used to Star Trek IV, which we've just come from
Kevin: You can see his shadow when he gestures against the wall.
You can see his shadow there and that feels like, I don't, I'm no
expert in lighting, but when you can see the Vulcan's ges, shadow,
shadow against the background of the bridge, something's gone wrong.
But yeah, this bridge feels very small and non cinematic.
It seems weird that Spock would be just realizing that now, even
though Sybok said, You know, I'm right in the, in the shuttle bay.
Rob: Yeah.
It is more of a
Kevin: logic of these scenes is just not quite tight.
Rob: It is more a line of exposition to deliver to the audience as
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: what, Spock would actually know.
Kevin: Could it be the thing I already know is true rather than false?
Rob: It's a shame they stayed in their guerilla tactical outfits for so long.
One scene's okay, but, you know.
Kevin: That happens a lot in Star Trek movies.
They get stuck in the wardrobe that they were in when they they lost control of,
you know, Star Trek III, they spend the entire time in the same wardrobe they
were in, or Star Trek IV, spend the entire wardrobe in because they blew up
their ship and all their clothes with it.
Rob: But yeah, like, Kirk's outfit in Star Trek IV and most of Star
Trek III, I don't like at all.
It's a weird button up patterned shirt and, yeah.
Kevin: I like this stuff.
Not everyone likes this stuff, but I like this stuff.
Rob: This is cute.
Kevin: Yeah, them working together.
Yeah.
Rob: Jimmy Doohan, what a legend.
If he could've sworn he would've, and I would've been okay with that.
If he dropped the F bomb there going,
Kevin: Alright, so everyone close your eyes for the next scene,
cause, uh, they do him a dirty.
Scotty goes from being the expert on his ship to walking into a pipe, and
the only reason is, I mean, I guess they need him to be knocked out so that Uhura
can wake him up in the sick bay later?
Bonk.
It's not very Kirk to say, you're amazing, either.
Rob: Yeah.
And the fact that he knocks himself out and they're still in the corridor,
you can just see them turning?
Kevin: Okay, so my stomach just did a backflip when I saw this turboshaft
because of the attention to detail issue that I mentioned earlier.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: You know what I'm about to complain about?
Rob: The amount of levels?
Kevin: Well, they're climbing from deck 6 to deck 7 to deck 8 as they go up.
And we all know that deck 1 on a starship is the bridge, and the
lower decks are the high numbers.
So they built this whole set.
And hand painted those numbers on that wall in the wrong freaking order.
Were there no Star Trek fans on the crew of this movie?
Rob: Clearly not.
They needed Terry Matalas to be doing
Kevin: thing that I cannot forgive this movie for, is that the deck
numbers are going the wrong direction.
It's just the moment where I go, oh, I care more about this
than the people making this.
Because you can tell they were reusing the same segments of set.
Um, and just changing the sign that was there, so they could have
swapped the numbers at any time.
It's not like it was something that was caught after they were painted
and they could no longer change it.
It was, it was, it was there to be changed.
Nobody cares.
Not even you care, Rob.
I can tell by the look on your face.
Rob: Look, look, it's a sad state of affairs when a fact like that
takes away from the from the actual reality of the story.
But it's true.
It's this, this type of stuff does happen.
Kevin: Are they standing on Spock's feet or not?
That is, uh, inconsistent in these
Rob: There was some sort of gripping or pad.
Kevin: Oh, man.
Rob: It is a, it is an awkward scene.
Kevin: The rocket boots should have been taken out of this movie.
I kind of like the banter with Spock hovering next to Kirk on the rock
face at the start of the movie, but the fall and then this entire
business with the turboshaft, the
Rob: If they'd taken that out, it would give you more freedom to add in more stuff
where we actually see the fear of each
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: crew member,
Kevin: Oh yeah, this is something else the Romulan lady gets to do.
She gets to pretend to be Starfleet Command.
That is some vague coordinates.
Again, our coordinates are zero, zero, zero, mark two.
That is meant to give Starfleet Command everything they need
to find the Enterprise in the wide swath of the galaxy.
Rob: So many zeros.
Uh,
Kevin: I mean, I guess zero, zero, zero, if you were, because we know the sun
is on the line between the alpha and beta quadrants, which could be zero,
zero on some sort of coordinate system.
And if they're traveling straight towards the center of the galaxy, that
might explain all the zeros, right?
Rob: think there's some sort of justification there that we can
always make ourselves feel better about that we can believe it.
Kevin: We should talk about this scene though, because this is, this is one
of the good bits of this movie and
Rob: Mm hmm.
Kevin: the lighting's gotten better.
Rob: That's much better lighting, isn't it?
Kevin: Imagine this with the bright TV lighting.
Oof, that would not work.
Rob: And how it shifts into the flashback moments is really beautifully done.
It's not like a fading of the, you know, dissolving of the light.
It's like as if they're there and they step in out of the light.
It's
Kevin: Yes.
So, it's worth noting the background here is a moving starfield, but that's going
to change throughout this scene as well.
Okay, so here's the payoff of Scotty bonking his head.
Scotty dear.
So, Sybok, we are given to believe has not only turned Uhura to his cause,
but the truth she, he has made her face is her love for Scotty, I guess.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Very tactile.
I like to touch the set.
Kevin: This was, uh, this was, this must have been his audition scene, you know?
Unpronounceable.
A strange thing for a Vulcan to say.
I don't know what the light below them is.
They're leaning over something that is lighting their faces
Rob: table, they raised up to
Kevin: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the communications station.
That's good.
How?
Rob: good, DeForest Kelley.
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah, so, I said earlier that, like, Sybok's power is vague.
This is as specific as it gets in this scene.
We actually get to live the experience through McCoy and Spock.
Oh, DeForest Kelley doing great work.
The backing away.
So good.
Oh, makes me feel it.
Rob: good.
Look at that.
I like, I love that shift.
That's all done, you know, on the actual set.
Kevin: Oh yeah.
That's just like a backlit matte painting or whatever.
But, uh It works.
Step into my scene.
Father.
I wish we knew his name.
Again, these scenes work because of the strength of the acting
and the theatricality of this, of the set and all of that.
And it works really well.
But I think there's, there's opportunity for even more.
Oh, the rain on the window, I've never noticed before.
I'm with you, Dad.
There's In these scenes we, in some ways, find out more about these characters
that are archetypes most of the time.
We see some specifics and it makes me want for even more.
I wish I knew his dad's name.
I, like, even if it was just written on a panel next to the bed.
I wish I knew what city that was.
Rob: Yeah.
I
Kevin: I wish his dad called him something other than son.
I wish he called him Leonard or Lenny or something, you know?
Rob: mean, yeah, I mean, there is, it's, it's quite, you know, just son,
father, and it's so powerful, but they are, they're just little hints
and elements just to individualize it and make it not so generic.
It would have been even more powerful, that's how, you know, actors make
it work, good actors make it work.
But it could have just been that little hint more into, a bit
more of an insight into Lenny.
Kevin: But they do a lot with a little.
That, uh, that device, like is, is that device part of the vision or is
it something that he carries around?
I want to know, I want to know the story of that, that device, the turning,
turning off life support device.
Rob: It's a very big illusion.
Kevin: And I am not criticizing this, I genuinely love this scene.
He's not done yet.
Yeah,
Rob: Well done, DeForest.
And they're taking the time for it, which I really
Kevin: yeah.
His dignity.
What was the name of the disease?
Oh, the background.
Look, it's the Great Barrier.
Rob: Mm hmm.
Kevin: See episode 49 of Subsurface Radio for our thoughts, our first
thoughts on the Great Barrier.
We're about to have a lot more of the Great Barrier.
We'll take together, he says, and looks away.
That, I love that move because it cheapens it.
Rob: Yep.
Yep.
He's ready to move on to the next one.
He doesn't care.
Kevin: On to the next one.
Yeah, we're done here.
We'll take together if I remember your name.
Rob: Yeah.
That's a great way, great observation.
Kevin: Yeah,
Rob: He turns away, moving on to Spock.
We'll do it together.
Just another one to my cause.
Kevin: I'm in a hurry here.
So this, uh, this little, this little vignette, less successful in my mind.
I think a bit just because Spock is less moved by it.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: Uh,
Rob: And it's also
Kevin: more like a cave painting to me than something that
Spock gets pulled into as an
experience.
Rob: visions with each other.
They just
Kevin: idea, like, how much do the others see is really interesting.
Again, it's not made clear.
It's left vague.
To the
Rob: Nice gold
fingernails there.
Kevin: Oh yeah, and the, the Vulcan ears on the baby.
That must not have been easy.
They look very realistic.
Mark Lenard voice cameo.
So it's different because in Bones' vision it was something, bones
was there to experience the first time, and he was reliving it.
And this is, I mean, technically Spock is there, but he lived it as a baby
and wouldn't remember it in person.
And, uh, it feels more disconnected for that reason.
Uh, I like Bones or Bones playing the, uh, being right on the edge.
Rob: Yeah.
Love
Kevin: Affected by it and starting to argue for Sybok, but not wanting
to go against his friends either.
Rob: Love this speech.
Kevin: I know you love this speech.
I kind of love this speech, but I can't help but wonder what we
would have seen if Sybok had given an opportunity, had been given the
opportunity to show Kirk something.
I feel like this, this script is afraid to go there with its captain.
Star Trek has, especially in this era, is so precious about its captains.
When Kirk falls off his chair in Star Trek III because David is dead,
there was a lot of talk of like, the captain never falls out of his chair.
Rob: Oh god.
Kevin: Then, like, no matter how many torpedoes are being
thrown at the ship, the captain never falls out of their chair.
That is a line we do not cross.
And then they cross that line and it was meant to be a big deal.
I feel like this is, this scene is another Kirk won't fall out of his chair.
We're not even going to give him the opportunity of seeing him knocked down
by whatever vision Sybok would show him.
Rob: We see a little bit of that in Star Trek II and III, definitely.
We see the pain, and we see it in VI as well, you know.
It's interesting the one that, um, Kirk, that, um, you know, uh, Shatner
doesn't direct, that they do a lot more exploring of the weakness of him.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: So you
Kevin: And I don't think it's, I don't think it's William Shatner who
doesn't want to go there because he is so quick to, um, be the butt of
the joke in all the rest of this movie that I don't think he is worried about
preserving his status as captain.
I think it's just either the scriptwriter didn't know what to do with that
scene or Star Trek had a rule of you won't make the captain look weak.
Rob: Yeah.
And probably not, I don't know.
Well, I have, I'll have to find out more about the actual screenwriter.
But like when you've got Nicholas, it's the Great Barrier!
Kevin: I forgot the Great Barrier was green, ever so briefly.
The green is passing over us.
No more green.
Rob: I kinda like the effects.
Like, it's like the paint and liquid type of,
Kevin: Yeah.
Here on the bridge, uh, the lighting has improved, but all of the
barrier lighting is added in post.
Like, it's not actually flickering on their face and casting shadows, it's
Rob: and you can see
Kevin: frame post lighting and we got
Rob: That kind of stuff I like.
That, That, is kind of weird.
Yeah.
Kevin: The smoke tank.
Rob: The lightning, eh?
Kevin: Yeah, the lightning looks cheap, hand animated.
Like camera shake that is not actually making them unsteady on their feet.
What's going on at the top of the frame there?
There's like some kind of crunch, crusty cruft at the top of the Great Barrier.
Woosh.
So there's a lot of music, and there's a lot of flickering, and a bit of
camera shake, and then they're through.
That's it.
Rob: That's it.
Kevin: They didn't even do anything.
Like, there was no orders given.
There was no sweating the shields or anything.
I guess we are given to believe that Sybok was given a vision and the, the alien
that lives on this planet dissipated the barrier in order to let them through.
Rob: Yeah, there wasn't even that much of a massive challenge or threat
Kevin: No, and maybe, usually there is, but on this day, where If Sybok
knew to come here, there wasn't.
And it's a good example of a plot happening to our characters rather than
them being active participants in it.
Rob: Exactly.
It's like a, it's an old writing problem you have when you're a kid.
You just want to get to the exciting stuff.
When you're writing, when you're a young kid writing for the first
time, you go, Oh, do I have to write them getting to the location?
I just want to get there.
It seems the case going, let's do some flashlights and I'll do it all
in description and just get through it so we can get to the space.
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: Get to Sha Ka Ree.
Kevin: Heheh.
Qui'Tu, Vorta Vor.
I don't know why a human would think this was Eden, because Eden
is meant to be a place on Earth.
Right?
Rob: Look at Chekov.
got this big smiley grin on his face going, hey,
Kevin: didn't see it.
Rob: whole
Kevin: captain's back.
I don't have to be captain anymore.
A
bit of focus issues there.
Must have been awkward, them all standing behind that railing.
Rob: That's, yeah.
I talked earlier about the positioning of the three shot when
they've arrived at the Enterprise.
That was beautifully done.
That was very awkward.
They're all standing on one side of the ship.
Kevin: I feel like if you're, if you're behind the railing,
you're a guest on the bridge.
And there's too much of our crew being guests on the bridge.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: Um, Sybok has changed out of his Vulcan fineries into a white bathrobe.
Rob: as everyone is now in their traditional uniforms and
thank heavens they've got out of
Kevin: Yeah.
Everyone took a moment to change.
Take a shower before they go down to Eden.
Rob: Had a shower, yeah, got themselves cleaned up.
If you're gonna go see God, you gotta, uh,
Kevin: So, Sha Ka Ree from space was that it almost looked like a chrysalis,
like it looked half transparent.
A, uh, a globe of glass.
And then there's like the purple mountains effect that slowly resolve
into this midwestern desert scene.
Rob: Is it Monument Valley?
I think, did they film in Monument Valley?
Kevin: That would make sense.
Rob: Everyone filmed in Monument Valley.
Kevin: Or a, um, a cheap stand in near Hollywood.
Rob: Yes.
If they couldn't get to Arizona, they just went to California.
Kevin: I half expected a Vasquez Rocks appearance when I re watched this.
Copernicus.
Rob: We'll play it shortly.
Kevin: How about that?
Pour one out for that shuttlecraft font.
The typeface of the shuttlecraft names.
That's from the original series.
That's like, that's a little bit of 60s graphic design that survives here.
I feel like it's one of the last times we see it before it reappears in Prodigy.
Just as I knew it would be, the land in the sky, it looks pretty barren.
Rob: It looks very barren.
Kevin: The uh, the script and the, the obvious tire tracks through
the mountains there, unfortunate.
Rob: There's a, um, a classic moment in a Doctor Who story called The Three
Doctors, where they're meant to have a representation of singularity, and
in the script it was a big flame.
And of course, 1970s Doctor Who budget couldn't afford that, so they
just had a smoke machine puffing up.
And they still kept the script the same, so there's a moment where
one of the characters has to walk through it, and they're terrified,
and they turn back and they go, it's alright, you can walk through it.
I'm going.
Yeah, that's still a leftover from, from, the flame, as opposed
to looking at a smoke machine and going, oh, I'm terrified.
Yes.
So the effect of Sybok looking at just a barren desert and a plain
sky going, it's just as I imagined.
Kevin: I want to analyze every piece of equipment strapped to Scotty's belt
Rob: a very big, light, roddy thing that he had.
I've never seen
Kevin: the same wrench he was poking under the bridge station
at the start of the movie.
Rob: It's huge.
It's absolutely massive.
Kevin: Add one to the list of bridge crews watching Star Trek on TV.
And here we go.
Here is the Klingon ship that no one notices has returned.
Last seen on its way to, oh, last seen at, uh, Nimbus 3 when they, uh, when they
tried to shoot them and they warped away.
So they just didn't know they'd been followed.
Rob: It's finding that balance.
You don't want to have to walk too far because at the end they
got to get back to the ship.
Kevin: Hmm.
But there's, there's a sense, like, the acting here says, we made it to
that place we were walking towards.
But it, like, they've just walked over a hill and it looks the same.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: It's the geography is quite arbitrary and all the shots
are close because they know they don't have anything to show us.
Rob: And what they could have done is just go over with the
Kevin: Yeah, they need a, an establishing shot or something.
Oh yeah, they could have flown over it.
Rob: Yeah.
Just flown over and go.
Kevin: Yeah.
So yeah, just the internal logic of this is, miss that tightening up.
Like where did they choose to go?
Did they have an energy reading?
Are
Rob: Yeah, exactly.
Kevin: the energy reading?
Like that would have worked.
That's all it would have taken.
Yeah,
Rob: It is a planet.
And you know, you need to have some sort of pinpoint, some sort of
accuracy of where you're landing.
Sorry, dude.
Kevin: The regretful grimace of Spock is good.
Dutch angle.
Weird shot.
At least they're, uh, they're selling it.
They're shifting on their feet.
Rob: A lot of head turns.
A lot of,
Kevin: Yeah.
Look this way, look this way.
We'll figure it out later.
So famously the end of this, like from, from the shuttle landing onward, this
movie ran out of money, and Uh, had to be rewritten for something that could
be produced on a much smaller budget.
There was going to be a lot of visual effects and rock
monsters and things like that.
Um, so much so that every time I watch this movie now, I am
surprised I don't see a monster.
Uh, because I've, I don't know, because I read that novel, or I read the comic
book adaptation, or I've just heard the interviews over the years regretting
the fact that they couldn't do the rock monster, but I remember a rock monster.
Maybe it's, uh, Galaxy Quest that's bleeding in.
You remember the rock monster at the start of Galaxy Quest?
Rob: And that's exactly what the, uh, The people behind Galaxy Quest want you
to do can you can tell no difference between Star Trek and Galaxy Quest.
I do like how they shoot the uh pillars coming up they shoot them in a way so like
from behind as they come up shooting down to give it that scale and the and it's
again like you know Jaws with the whole don't show everything so quickly yeah hold
back on showing the monster they really hid so that they could have that final
effect of all the rocks surrounding them, but shot them in a way so any other way
would have been seen how dodgy they were?
Kevin: They still looked a little plastery, but at least you could tell they
were there and they were the right size.
They weren't all created in post.
I like the sparkly, uh, the sparkly sand before this thing shot up too.
Earn your paycheck, DeForest.
Yeah.
You get the sense, like, it's definitely true for the actor, but you
get the sense that for the character as well, like, ironically, McCoy
is the most religious of the three.
Rob: That effect's very cheap.
That's very cheap.
Kevin: I was hoping to distract you from it.
Rob: Oh.
Kevin: I'll say this for it, at least it casts shadows.
Like, that light is hitting our actors.
It's not the same light, but at least there was a bright light on set that day.
Very, um, the vision of God as a man with a, with a curly beard feels like,
it feels like a, uh, a trope that was just, just about to pass its prime here.
Rob: Does look like it was used one of those hot curlers.
Kevin: Yeah.
What does God need with a starship?
It's a good line.
I think he makes a bit too much of a meal out of it here.
He was really looking forward to giving that line.
Rob: Yeah.
Don't you know?
Kevin: I want to like it because the Star Trek of it is great.
Look, if there is an almighty God, I am open to being convinced, but
the moment I'll see a logical flaw, I'm not going to go along with it.
Uh, is good.
Like, that is good Star Trek writing, I feel like.
Rob: It's interesting, the reaction shot was of two of the supporting characters,
so you look at the Romulan and the humans shocked about Kirk getting hit,
and I'm going, why would they care?
Kevin: Yeah.
Yeah.
We don't see Leonard Nimoy take the hit.
We only see Kirk and Bones turn.
So this is the culmination of so much of what Gene Roddenberry wanted to do
in Star Trek in his later years, like, he wrote, he wrote a script called The
God Thing, the, The Animated Series, we saw them go and, and, you know, deal
with the question of God and the Devil.
This ultimately, like, captain of the Enterprise fights God was the,
the last unrealized idea that Gene Roddenberry had for Star Trek, I feel
like, and here we get to see it play out, and it's, I want to say, it's
not as bad as one might have feared.
Like, budget issues and production issues aside, the story denouement here of,
uh, Kirk meets something claiming to be God and realizes immediately it's a con
because the logic doesn't hold up is good.
This one suits you best because you think you're God, I guess is the implication.
Rob: Love the smoke going off, uh, Kirk there.
Kevin: Yeah, it's good.
A good glimpse of what Luckinbill was doing with Sybok, because he's
playing a very contrasting character there, you get to see it's not just
him playing himself, he was, he's playing two different, very different
characters on both sides of this scene.
It's good!
He gets a good ending, Sybok!
I mean, the effects are not good.
This is what I want to remember when they show us Sybok in Strange New Worlds,
when they show us young Sybok, that this is, this is the end he's going towards.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: It'll be
Rob: For me, it's still, like,
Kevin: foreshadow of this.
Rob: watching, there isn't really a connection between Like, I like the whole
thing, we don't really know what that thing is hidden behind the barrier that
pretends to be God, I like that idea.
But it's just a case of Sybok's mission, and this trapped
creature don't really link.
Kevin: don't connect.
No.
Rob: And like, when he says, I'm here for Sha Ka Ree, he goes,
oh, you're looking for that?
There's no signs of sense he hasn't reached out to him
or they aren't connected.
There's like two separate storylines that have kind of just yeah.
Kevin: Did
Rob: Yeah,
Kevin: Sybok here or not?
Rob: there's no connection.
They're going, I summoned you.
I called you here.
It's this case of going, all right, okay.
This is what you're looking for.
Well, I'll, I'll be this for you now, just to get away.
It's um, yeah, it's, it's points that don't really have
a connecting, um, thrust, a
Kevin: Yeah,
Rob: connecting thrust?
What am I watching?
Something?
Kevin: know, I know what you mean.
It's, uh, it's, uh, the vague gestures of a Star Trek plot that again just didn't
have that, that time for that final pass to make it all hold together, feel
like cause and effect was rewarding.
Rob: Like you said, the amount of times they were leading towards
this point of the, the, you know, the captain of a starship going
up against God, which is very much Roddenberry's, you know, play, and it's
there a lot in the original series.
It's, almost a let well, it is a letdown, it is a letdown.
You have one little overcooked speech, not even a speech, a couple of lines
from Kirk going, what does God want with a starship, why is God angry?
Um, yeah, could have been
Kevin: So, is Kirk alone now?
Rob: Is Kirk alone?
Ah, because he isn't, like, he doesn't have anyone right there next to him?
No, he's not.
He's got his team and his
Kevin: Wow.
That starship did not look good.
It was slightly rotating but it was otherwise completely two dimensional
and I saw the lighting on it glitch in a couple of frames and jump off the hull.
David Warner knocked out.
Rob: Captain Klaa.
Kevin: Captain Klaa with two A's on the end.
Interesting.
Interesting accent.
I love a bit of bridge viewscreen business.
There's just not enough of it in this film.
Every time it happens, it's like, oh yeah!
This is what I want.
Damn you sir, you will try.
Interesting move.
That's another like, Spock's yeah at the start.
You can tell he's grown.
He's, he's mellowed.
Didn't logic him, he, he berated him into
Rob: Connecting back to his rock climbing.
Kevin: So, yeah, this, the floating head is what, in my memory of this
film, has been replaced with a rock monster climbing the cliffs behind him.
And it doesn't say anything, it just goes, ooooh.
Again with the guns.
I'm pretty sure that's the same effect shot, just with different
lighting, as we got at the
Rob: Star Wars sound
Kevin: when they shot the space garbage.
What'd you say?
Klingon bastards.
Rob: Mm-hmm.
Kevin: That's such a letdown.
Man, I don't know what they could have done better with it, but, yeah.
He's good.
Rob: I Spo-hawk!
Kevin: It's good that they established the swiveling chair earlier.
It's a cheap, it's a cheap shot in the end, but it works in this film.
See, that's how comedy should work in Star Trek, is Kirk plays the straight man.
Rob: I think the Klingons would've appreciated a good man hug.
Kevin: Yeah, I think so too.
Rob: Yeah.
Kevin: So unfleshed out, those characters, like that is meant to
be the rewarding end of their arc.
Yeah, there's the muscles.
Rob: She has vonderful muscles!
There's the line.
Kevin: If there's one thing I learned in 2023 is I did not realize what a
thing Chekov had for Klingon women.
Rob: Mm-Hmm.
. Yes he did.
And, uh, Sulu enabled him.
Kevin: In so many of these scenes, I don't know what you're looking
at, Rob, but I am looking at their insignia and their uniforms.
I love how three dimensional they are.
Rob: Yes.
Kevin: There was a scene earlier Yeah, when, when McCoy was like switching
off the life support for his dad, his arm went down and you could see
just the, the layers of epaulets and insignias stacked on top of each other.
It was very satisfying.
Rob: But I'm back.
Kevin: That's good.
It's good.
Rob: That's a good moment.
That's good.
Kevin: The little bits of character we get in this are like, that's the
good stuff at the heart of this movie.
Rob: And especially, you know, you look at Star Trek II where he looked at the
family that he could have had, or the family he didn't know he had, um, and
for him to realize, this is my family.
It's a
Kevin: Hmm.
Yeah.
That's, like, for all its faults, and they are many, this is more of a bad movie than
a good movie, I will say, but, I would not lose it, like, I wouldn't skip over
it, because you would miss those things.
Rob: I think there's more good in this, genuine good stuff, than
there is in, say, Star Trek Nemesis.
Kevin: Hmm, yeah.
Rob: Which kind of get, those two kind of get pulled in the
same banner of hatred or dislike.
Kevin: Yeah.
Nemesis has better production values than this, but the story and the
character beats are not as strong.
They sell out their characters in ways this movie doesn't.
Except when Scotty takes the hit in the corridor.
Rob: So there we go!
Kevin: There we go.
Sir John Talbot is, uh, is listed there, but, uh, there.
Doesn't come until later on.
David Warner gets higher billing than the other two ambassadors.
Rob: Well he was quite well established by this stage, so he'd already done, like,
Time Bandits, he'd done Tron, oh, I'm
Kevin: Yeah.
Rob: two.
Kevin: I feel like someone scored a coup by getting David Warner in
this movie and then they forgot to write anything for him to do.
Rob: That's the one.
And then they went, you know what?
You want to come back for the next one so you can actually do something.
Kevin: Yeah.
That's
Rob: So yeah, there we go.
How
Kevin: a Next Gen and original, uh, Motion Picture theme here as well.
This would have been quite confusing at the time to hear the Next, what mainstream
audiences would most recognize as the Star Trek: The Next Generation theme.
Rob: me as a Star Trek fan at that point?
I was actually quite confused because I'm there going, hang on, they're using
the music from the, from the TV show.
Oh, it wasn't this season and I had to go back and watch the
VHS, VHS of the motion picture.
And I had it there.
I'm going, well, why is it only in these ones and not in.
And so like anytime I really wanted to hear the theme because I didn't have any
Next Generation videotapes I'd have to chuck on Star Trek 5 just to listen to the
the opening music because it was they're going that's really good Star Trek music.
Kevin: Hmm.
Rob: On your Jerry Goldsmith.
Kevin: Well, final thoughts on Star Trek V, Rob.
Rob: Yeah look the stuff that works is really, really good.
The stuff that doesn't work it's it's a it's it's it's a shame that
it's been let down by um cutting corners on costs um and it it shows
that you know some actors need a good director just to to to pull them in.
Um, and Shatner is let off on a leash a bit too much here.
Um, which is a shame.
Um, and a little bit of exploration of the side characters better than we
have in the other supporting cast, but then they're kind of left to the side
as our main three go for it again.
Um, but yes, the stuff that doesn't hold up certainly doesn't hold up at
all, and the plot holes near the end just, um, just make it kind of like a
forgettable tele movie as opposed to something they could have elevated.
And they kind of, it's definitely a criticism on tele evangelists and those
type of people manipulating the pain of those less fortunate, um, but there could
have been some big swings that could have hit really well that they didn't really
take, they kind of backed off a bit.
How about you?
Kevin: I, for me, it's, it's kind of tragic that, I wish I could pin down
this movie to just one thing that it did wrong, that is the source of all its
problems, and that if you fix that one thing you can see the good movie that
would exist on the other side of it.
But I feel there's at least three things that go wrong with this film.
One is it learned the wrong lessons from Star Trek IV and attempted
comedy when it shouldn't have.
It played it for laughs when it should have been playing it straight.
Um, and our, our captain was hamming it up when he was, he shouldn't have
been, and there wasn't anyone on set who could tell him to, to, to rein him in.
The second is the attention to detail stuff.
There just was not either time or care given to do that polish pass that would
make this story hold together, that would make the details satisfying.
And, uh, the third one is visual effects.
That, uh, you know, ILM was missing in action here.
And so much of the visuals are just let down as a result.
The, the, the stuff that should look, um, convincing looks cheap and like
done on a shoestring, um, and, and really, especially today doesn't
hold up in an era of digital effects.
These were cheap optical effects, not even good optical effects.
So, um, all three of those things, like you could fix any one of them
and it would still be a bad movie.
Because the other two would drag it down, I feel like, and that,
that's, that's what, um, that's what I regret most about Star Trek V.
Um, but there is good in this one.
Rob: I agree.
I agree.
There's some good stuff in there and the good stuff is, is really good.
Um, but the bad stuff really lets it down and is, yeah, yeah, frankly,
you know, quite embarrassing.
Um, but the stuff that's great, you just go, oh, if, yeah, if only, if only is
a great way to, to look at Star Trek V.
Kevin: It's part of their story, though.
Like I said, I wouldn't skip it.
If, if someone were watching Star Trek in order to, to, to get the whole story, this
Rob: they NEED to
Kevin: are, there are episodes that you should skip.
Because they, they do no good and plenty of harm.
This one does enough good that it is worth putting up with the harm.
Rob: Definitely.
Definitely.
It's not one you should skip.
Um, the, the, the plots, the character beats that move them forward,
realizations, um, you know, the delving into, um, the past of some
of the cast is, uh, characters is, is definitely essential, uh, viewing
and you just have to tolerate, um, a plot that makes no sense and doesn't
really connect and, um, stuff like that to, to get to the juicy stuff.
Kevin: So are Scotty and Uhura in love now?
Rob: Um, maybe they didn't, well, we don't see much of that in Star Trek
VI, so maybe they just had a bit of a flingy thing, and he doesn't really
talk much about her in his return episode in The Next Generation, so,
Kevin: No, it is, it is written off in that sickbay scene that, uh, that she's
under the influence and Scotty needs to not take advantage of the situation,
but she's pretty flirty at the start with those chip bags, I have to say.
Rob: Yeah, even at the start they're flirty, so, um, so, yeah, I think
there's definitely something there, they just, um, yeah, didn't want to explore
it any further than they needed to.
Kevin: Well, thank you, Rob, and thank you listeners for joining us in this
viewing of Star Trek V, you know, we start at the bottom and work our way up.
Rob: Exactly, wait for another 50 episodes and we'll do a really good one.
But we've got Prodigy to watch to build up that algorithm to pick up those,
uh, viewing figures so that Netflix, cause they are, they are cold, harsh
people when it comes to viewing figures and numbers, and if you do not reach
a certain algorithm number, uh, you're cast aside like yesterday's meal.
Kevin: Yes, indeed.
And I think Discovery season 5 is still next on the docket in April.
So.
As of now, I, they haven't said when season two of Prodigy is
going to land on Netflix, but
Rob: No.
Kevin: soon ish.
Uh, I think they want to give season one the time to land and for people to binge
it and then they'll drop season two.
So we might get Prodigy season two before Discovery season five, but
one way or the other, we will be back to discuss them when there is
new Star Trek on our screens again.
Rob: So yes, thank you for joining us for 50 episodes.
Thank you for joining us for our 50th episode, and we'll definitely be back
in, uh, we are in 2024 right now, and we've got Discovery, we've got Prodigy,
we've got Season 3 of Strange New Worlds is now filming, so, um, the future is
looking bright in the world of Star Trek.
Kevin: Indeed.
Uh, well, I can't wait, but we'll be back soon.
Bye for now, Rob.
Rob: See you soon!