WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-GB 00:00:09.569 --> 00:00:13.110 Travis Bader: In today's episode, I'm talking with Robin, who has led 00:00:13.110 --> 00:00:15.649 an absolutely extraordinary life. 00:00:16.230 --> 00:00:18.639 He has faced immense adversity. 00:00:18.714 --> 00:00:21.994 And at any point, he could have easily thrown his hands up in the air and 00:00:21.994 --> 00:00:25.275 said, I give up, I've had a bad deal. 00:00:25.865 --> 00:00:30.054 I just don't have the same advantages that other people have. 00:00:30.055 --> 00:00:32.194 So why should I even try? 00:00:32.485 --> 00:00:33.105 But he didn't. 00:00:33.784 --> 00:00:35.534 Instead, he looked inward. 00:00:35.534 --> 00:00:40.135 He looked at what he could do, found that fire inside himself and he persevered 00:00:40.135 --> 00:00:44.675 and he turned that adversity into the points that really allowed him 00:00:44.675 --> 00:00:48.454 to succeed in life and allowed other people around him to be able to thrive. 00:00:49.129 --> 00:00:53.109 I find this to be a very common trait in those who refuse to be a victim. 00:00:53.429 --> 00:00:56.279 Those who will look at adversity and say, bring it on. 00:00:56.900 --> 00:01:02.169 It is absolutely mind boggling what we are able to accomplish when we put our 00:01:02.169 --> 00:01:08.560 mind to it and we truly understand the level of personal agency that each and 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:13.400 every one of us has, if you follow me on social media, I have a picture posted 00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:17.595 there, this is a picture that Robin sent me and he autographed It's a picture 00:01:17.595 --> 00:01:19.825 of the 1980 Iranian embassy siege. 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:24.020 That really skyrocketed the SAS into the public eye. 00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:29.100 This is the first time on a global scale that the SAS was known and 00:01:29.100 --> 00:01:30.549 seen for what they're able to do. 00:01:31.010 --> 00:01:34.679 For anyone who's been into the Silvercore studio, they're going to see other 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:42.019 pictures and memorabilia and books and knives and maps and all sorts of 00:01:42.019 --> 00:01:48.810 different items that past podcast guests have given me as mementos and Reminders 00:01:48.810 --> 00:01:50.679 of the conversations that we've had. 00:01:51.059 --> 00:01:56.220 Now I don't place a lot of value in things, but I do place a lot of value 00:01:56.609 --> 00:02:01.740 in relationships and every time I look at these things that are up there, it 00:02:01.740 --> 00:02:06.070 reminds me of the relationships and the connections that we're able to form. 00:02:06.935 --> 00:02:13.424 In a large part due to this podcast, if you're looking to deepen your 00:02:13.424 --> 00:02:16.744 connection with others, if you're looking to deepen your connection with 00:02:16.744 --> 00:02:21.214 your natural environment, interacting with the Silvercore podcast is one 00:02:21.214 --> 00:02:24.794 way for people in the community to be able to meet each other. 00:02:25.085 --> 00:02:26.355 And learn from each other. 00:02:27.075 --> 00:02:31.165 Another way is the Silvercore club, specifically designed to 00:02:31.165 --> 00:02:34.125 help people deepen their connection with a natural environment 00:02:34.615 --> 00:02:36.754 club members receive insurance. 00:02:36.755 --> 00:02:41.104 They receive free online training and discounts on courses and deep 00:02:41.104 --> 00:02:46.734 discounts on many of the industry partners that are Silvercore club. 00:02:46.984 --> 00:02:49.855 And if you wanted to learn more about that, go to silvercore. 00:02:49.865 --> 00:02:51.325 ca forward slash club. 00:02:51.885 --> 00:02:54.965 Now, without further ado, let's get on with this podcast. 00:02:55.545 --> 00:02:59.995 I'm joined today by an extraordinary guest whose life reads like a blockbuster 00:02:59.995 --> 00:03:03.975 action movie, but with the depth and grip that only real experience can bring. 00:03:04.485 --> 00:03:08.224 Serving with the 22nd SAS, he was involved in one of the most iconic and 00:03:08.224 --> 00:03:12.524 daring military operations of the 20th century, the Iranian embassy siege. 00:03:12.924 --> 00:03:16.175 He's a martial arts expert, author, motivational speaker, and 00:03:16.175 --> 00:03:17.885 relentless advocate for veterans. 00:03:18.260 --> 00:03:21.280 Welcome to the Silvercore podcast, Robin Horsfall. 00:03:21.570 --> 00:03:22.270 Thanks, Travis. 00:03:22.270 --> 00:03:23.170 Great to be here. 00:03:23.850 --> 00:03:29.150 You know, I picked up your book here, Fighting Scared, came in last Friday and 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:31.799 I had a difficult time putting it down. 00:03:31.950 --> 00:03:33.359 What a fantastic read. 00:03:33.650 --> 00:03:38.905 Uh, I was blown away by your ability to relay Difficult 00:03:38.905 --> 00:03:42.135 experiences in an extremely understandable and relatable way. 00:03:42.445 --> 00:03:46.925 And you weave into that lessons of morality and fortitude. 00:03:46.995 --> 00:03:49.325 You really are a gifted teacher. 00:03:49.415 --> 00:03:49.905 Thank you. 00:03:50.055 --> 00:03:50.704 It's, um, 00:03:51.554 --> 00:03:56.124 Robin Horsfall: one of the joys of being able to have a, an audience is 00:03:56.145 --> 00:04:00.615 to be able to impart knowledge that's valuable to the listener or to the reader. 00:04:01.204 --> 00:04:05.719 Um, Very often, a lot of us have got a story, but we never have a forum to 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:10.670 share it with, and um, I've had that privilege, so it's, uh, Yeah, I wrote, 00:04:10.720 --> 00:04:17.899 uh, Fighting Scared in 2002, and it took me six months, and, um, I didn't write it 00:04:17.910 --> 00:04:22.469 for any other reason than I wanted to tell the story about, uh, A young, bullied, 00:04:22.469 --> 00:04:28.700 insecure, unpopular kid from a broken home, classic sort of, um, scenario. 00:04:29.130 --> 00:04:33.599 Who joins the army at 15, um, to get away and to escape. 00:04:33.890 --> 00:04:35.749 And, um, and moves on from there. 00:04:36.270 --> 00:04:40.070 Um, I've had people get in touch with me over the years who have read that book 00:04:40.559 --> 00:04:44.870 and, um, have said, you know, I thought there was something wrong with me until I 00:04:44.870 --> 00:04:48.659 read your story and I realized there was something wrong with every bugger else. 00:04:50.989 --> 00:04:51.740 Travis Bader: Well, I like that. 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:55.770 And I, I honestly reading through it, I found it very relatable. 00:04:55.830 --> 00:04:58.740 The experiences that you're talking about, the way that you convey it. 00:04:59.115 --> 00:05:05.825 Just very human emotions, insecurities, um, just self esteem, self worth, 00:05:05.865 --> 00:05:08.265 uh, feeling afraid, being bullied. 00:05:08.275 --> 00:05:14.255 And they seem to be, um, sort of a constant thread throughout your life. 00:05:15.614 --> 00:05:19.035 Robin Horsfall: Well, when I was born I didn't know my father because my father 00:05:19.035 --> 00:05:21.945 was in prison and he was, he was a thief. 00:05:22.094 --> 00:05:26.585 So, um, I didn't know him, uh, my mother and he divorced 00:05:26.604 --> 00:05:28.025 when I was seven years old. 00:05:28.395 --> 00:05:30.794 And she married a man called Geoffrey Horsfall who adopted 00:05:30.794 --> 00:05:31.905 me and gave me his name. 00:05:32.694 --> 00:05:36.435 So for the first seven years of my life I never had a male role model in my life. 00:05:37.390 --> 00:05:41.039 And, um, a lot of people say that, you know, that it's that first 00:05:41.049 --> 00:05:44.580 seven years that's so important in your personal development. 00:05:45.189 --> 00:05:49.900 And, um, when Geoffrey Horsfall came into my life, my stepfather, he'd never 00:05:49.900 --> 00:05:51.799 had a child and I'd never had a father. 00:05:52.400 --> 00:05:56.860 And, consequently, we clashed, neither knowing how to deal with the situation. 00:05:56.860 --> 00:06:00.865 And his, um, His method was to beat me into silence. 00:06:01.315 --> 00:06:07.185 And, um, when you beat somebody into, into silence, you stunt their development. 00:06:07.485 --> 00:06:11.384 You, uh, you take away their ability to negotiate. 00:06:11.715 --> 00:06:15.414 You take away their ability to make friends because they're 00:06:15.635 --> 00:06:17.214 fearful of all authority figures. 00:06:18.085 --> 00:06:23.735 And, um, so you, you become sullen and distant from people and of course that 00:06:23.755 --> 00:06:30.155 becomes a self fulfilling prophecy because you, um, you're distant and weird and, um, 00:06:30.365 --> 00:06:32.355 you, you're, you're frightened of people. 00:06:32.855 --> 00:06:37.560 And so They don't like you because they think you don't like them. 00:06:37.830 --> 00:06:39.570 And so the system carries on. 00:06:39.570 --> 00:06:45.349 It took me many, many years to, um, to understand that, um, I needed to change 00:06:45.349 --> 00:06:49.809 myself if, um, I was ever going to have any friends in the world, that's for sure. 00:06:50.310 --> 00:06:53.720 Um, and you know, that's, um, that's the reason you get isolated, 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.630 intimidated, picked on, bullied, um, is because you struggle to make friends 00:06:58.780 --> 00:07:00.520 and you struggle to communicate. 00:07:00.945 --> 00:07:05.764 And, uh, the reason I think for my particular case was, uh, because 00:07:05.824 --> 00:07:09.634 I had my voice stolen from me by being beaten into silence. 00:07:11.754 --> 00:07:17.275 Travis Bader: You know, I, I see some common threads of, uh, sort of 00:07:17.395 --> 00:07:19.774 an oppositional defiance disorder. 00:07:19.834 --> 00:07:25.305 I have no background in, uh, uh, in any clinical diagnosis. 00:07:25.455 --> 00:07:29.135 Well, I'll just lean on things that I've had to deal with in the past, but, 00:07:29.135 --> 00:07:35.585 uh, ADHD, Uh, oppositional defiance disorder, maybe RSD, what do they call it? 00:07:35.595 --> 00:07:40.885 Rejection sensitivity dysmorphia, uh, where you figure out 00:07:40.925 --> 00:07:42.165 they're going to dislike me. 00:07:42.165 --> 00:07:44.885 So I'll just, I'll just avoid them to begin with. 00:07:45.105 --> 00:07:45.505 Robin Horsfall: Yes. 00:07:45.584 --> 00:07:47.115 I agree with that one entirely. 00:07:47.115 --> 00:07:47.534 I mean, I, I. 00:07:48.045 --> 00:07:51.975 I sometimes I think, um, the way I communicate is I try to simplify 00:07:51.975 --> 00:07:58.194 everything I possibly can when people put, um, long, uh, laborious, uh, labels 00:07:58.195 --> 00:08:02.714 on something, it makes it sound like a prescription, um, in reality, you 00:08:02.714 --> 00:08:07.815 can get right back to the simple facts and say, you know, um, I had my boy, 00:08:07.815 --> 00:08:10.085 I, I, I had my voice beaten out of me. 00:08:10.395 --> 00:08:13.785 Um, I did actually resent all authority figures. 00:08:14.035 --> 00:08:15.435 I was frightened of them. 00:08:15.784 --> 00:08:18.284 And when you start putting long labels on things, it makes 00:08:18.284 --> 00:08:19.455 you sound as if you're real. 00:08:20.085 --> 00:08:23.654 And you're not, you're just, you're just, um, you're just dealing with 00:08:23.654 --> 00:08:25.604 adversity in the only way you know how. 00:08:26.604 --> 00:08:27.145 Travis Bader: I like that. 00:08:27.295 --> 00:08:30.285 You know, there's a lot of people that have these labels and they'll just marry 00:08:30.535 --> 00:08:34.575 themselves to the label and they're like, Oh, it's, you know, I'm like this because 00:08:34.575 --> 00:08:36.745 of whatever the label label might be. 00:08:36.985 --> 00:08:39.625 Well, no, the label is just something there to help describe 00:08:39.635 --> 00:08:40.635 what you're going through. 00:08:40.985 --> 00:08:42.375 And you're like this right now. 00:08:42.445 --> 00:08:44.344 It doesn't mean you have to be like that in the future. 00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:49.160 And if you discipline yourself, knowing about that label, maybe you can comport 00:08:49.160 --> 00:08:50.610 yourself differently in the future. 00:08:51.280 --> 00:08:51.589 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 00:08:51.589 --> 00:08:54.919 The only, the only thing, the only thing in the world that any of us 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:57.009 have the power to change is ourselves. 00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:58.899 We can't change other people. 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:02.329 Um, we can set an example that other people might try to follow, 00:09:02.980 --> 00:09:05.170 but we can only change ourselves. 00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:06.780 So there's something wrong in your life. 00:09:07.230 --> 00:09:08.890 And you blame somebody else. 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:10.200 You can't change them. 00:09:10.690 --> 00:09:11.620 You can't change your wife. 00:09:11.620 --> 00:09:12.510 You can't change your kids. 00:09:12.510 --> 00:09:13.950 You can't change your friends. 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:14.740 You can't change. 00:09:15.060 --> 00:09:18.000 All you can do is change yourself and make changes in yourself. 00:09:18.029 --> 00:09:18.770 And that's it. 00:09:19.140 --> 00:09:24.419 Um, uh, take a hypothetical example, somebody who has a problem 00:09:24.420 --> 00:09:27.790 with alcohol and decides, okay, I'm not going to drink anymore. 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:28.930 That's a choice. 00:09:28.990 --> 00:09:30.960 I'm not going to do that anymore. 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.100 I'm, I'm violent. 00:09:32.150 --> 00:09:33.810 I've decided I'm not going to be anymore. 00:09:33.810 --> 00:09:34.620 It's your decision. 00:09:35.030 --> 00:09:41.510 And when you take responsibility for your own actions and your own behavior, you 00:09:41.539 --> 00:09:47.329 can achieve a great deal when you spend your life blaming your childhood, blaming 00:09:47.330 --> 00:09:51.410 your parents, blaming your friends, blaming your wife, blaming somebody. 00:09:51.660 --> 00:09:53.240 Um, you never really get to the. 00:09:53.630 --> 00:09:57.140 The, um, core of the problem and the core of the problems in, in 00:09:57.140 --> 00:10:01.170 yourself, the greatest battle you ever have is the war with yourself. 00:10:01.170 --> 00:10:02.400 Travis Bader: Without a doubt. 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:02.810 Yes. 00:10:02.810 --> 00:10:10.100 Well, you would in your book anyways, talk about going out into the woods and fishing 00:10:10.109 --> 00:10:14.439 and camping and using the wilderness as a means to be able to, I guess, 00:10:14.449 --> 00:10:19.839 center yourself or maybe escape, uh, is, is that something that you still do? 00:10:20.870 --> 00:10:25.120 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, I think, um, I think, um, two things. 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:25.879 I think, yes. 00:10:26.395 --> 00:10:27.625 It was an escape. 00:10:27.655 --> 00:10:28.335 I do. 00:10:28.585 --> 00:10:35.435 When you, when you, um, you have to learn to cope when you are unpopular. 00:10:36.445 --> 00:10:39.635 And so being happy in your own company. 00:10:40.199 --> 00:10:42.150 Is quite a good way of dealing with that. 00:10:42.180 --> 00:10:43.719 So get away from everybody. 00:10:43.719 --> 00:10:48.779 That's a problem in your life and sit by a lake and go fishing or go walking 00:10:48.780 --> 00:10:55.099 over the mountains and, um, you know, enjoy that particular style of life. 00:10:55.509 --> 00:11:00.349 Um, can be very, very, very, very, very, um, rewarding. 00:11:00.635 --> 00:11:03.574 Because you're, you're full, you're filling yourself a 00:11:03.574 --> 00:11:04.915 steam from another direction. 00:11:04.915 --> 00:11:08.485 You're not relying on other people to tell you how good you are. 00:11:08.735 --> 00:11:10.194 You're proving it to yourself. 00:11:10.585 --> 00:11:13.705 Um, so, and, um, and I still live in the mountains. 00:11:13.705 --> 00:11:15.734 I still love the wilds, but I've had some. 00:11:16.010 --> 00:11:17.920 Health issues over the last few years. 00:11:18.230 --> 00:11:24.350 And, um, so walking, um, walking along beaches, which are nice and flat is, 00:11:24.350 --> 00:11:29.250 uh, is, uh, is, is about the toughest exercise I can cope with these days. 00:11:29.610 --> 00:11:33.829 Um, but, uh, yeah, I still love the outdoors. 00:11:33.829 --> 00:11:34.789 I still love the. 00:11:34.949 --> 00:11:37.589 I still love the lakes and the fishing and the trees and, 00:11:37.970 --> 00:11:40.020 um, and being out there alone. 00:11:40.290 --> 00:11:44.509 Well, as I got older, I, I started taking my kids with me and then 00:11:44.509 --> 00:11:46.480 eventually my grandchildren with me. 00:11:46.810 --> 00:11:49.900 And, um, on the last occasion, I went up the mountains. 00:11:50.270 --> 00:11:54.580 I went up with two of my grandchildren and my oldest son Alex and me to a 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:59.120 place that I'd first gone to with my youngest brother when he was 14. 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:05.090 And, uh, called Gawrwinyfawr Reservoir in the Welsh Black Mountains. 00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:11.460 And, um, and I went back there with my son and two of my grandsons and 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:15.514 we camped in exactly the same place and we built a stone urn and, um, 00:12:15.574 --> 00:12:19.775 We, uh, we slept and we, we shared a big cup of cocoa by the lake. 00:12:19.775 --> 00:12:24.485 And, um, you know, and those, those things, you know, they stay with you 00:12:24.485 --> 00:12:29.255 forever because it's not the gifts you buy your children that matter. 00:12:29.325 --> 00:12:31.565 It's the things you do with your children. 00:12:31.775 --> 00:12:34.964 Nobody remembers the Christmas presents they got or rarely. 00:12:35.385 --> 00:12:38.695 I remember the fact that daddy played ball with me in the garden 00:12:38.695 --> 00:12:42.025 on Christmas day or through or through snowballs at me or something. 00:12:42.025 --> 00:12:42.855 I remember that. 00:12:43.235 --> 00:12:44.644 They don't remember the gifts. 00:12:44.954 --> 00:12:49.224 The gifts don't mean as much as the, um, the sharing of life and time. 00:12:51.135 --> 00:12:52.935 Travis Bader: I, yeah, I resonate with that. 00:12:52.985 --> 00:12:57.564 You know, in our family, we're not big gift givers with my wife and my kids. 00:12:57.584 --> 00:12:59.765 It's experiences that we want to have. 00:12:59.785 --> 00:13:05.564 If we have money that we can put aside towards something, uh, it's what, what can 00:13:05.564 --> 00:13:08.234 we experience as a family and as a group. 00:13:08.234 --> 00:13:09.045 And I. 00:13:09.655 --> 00:13:14.145 I truly believe as long as I got my mind healthy and I got my memories 00:13:14.145 --> 00:13:16.895 with me, then there's no other gift that would be better than that. 00:13:16.915 --> 00:13:19.594 And even if I lose that, at least they can carry it forward. 00:13:19.865 --> 00:13:20.424 Robin Horsfall: That's right. 00:13:20.464 --> 00:13:24.625 I had a very good friend, um, called Mick Lee, who was a 00:13:24.635 --> 00:13:26.864 paratrooper with me, older than me. 00:13:27.284 --> 00:13:31.735 And when I had my first son, Alex, um, he was two years old and Mick 00:13:31.735 --> 00:13:33.635 said, um, how's that boy of yours? 00:13:34.590 --> 00:13:35.250 I said, it's great. 00:13:35.250 --> 00:13:35.670 He's wonderful. 00:13:35.670 --> 00:13:36.500 He's fantastic. 00:13:36.849 --> 00:13:38.099 He said, you buy him a ball. 00:13:38.370 --> 00:13:38.890 I said, yeah. 00:13:38.890 --> 00:13:40.040 He said, you play ball with him. 00:13:40.040 --> 00:13:40.460 I said, yeah. 00:13:40.460 --> 00:13:41.270 He said, that's good. 00:13:41.890 --> 00:13:43.009 You've got to play ball with him. 00:13:43.280 --> 00:13:44.720 You know, that's, uh, that's the point. 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:46.819 Travis Bader: That's, that's the whole point of the thing. 00:13:47.420 --> 00:13:47.700 Yeah. 00:13:47.710 --> 00:13:50.760 Now you've, we're talking off air here a bit. 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:53.939 And was it five great grandchildren that you have? 00:13:54.729 --> 00:13:55.369 Seven. 00:13:55.705 --> 00:14:00.835 Seven, I got that wrong, seven great grandchildren, man, that's, 00:14:00.905 --> 00:14:04.735 you, you've got a heck of an, uh, an extended family now. 00:14:05.455 --> 00:14:05.745 Yeah. 00:14:05.745 --> 00:14:11.094 When you, you became a father, what was that like, given the fact that your 00:14:11.094 --> 00:14:17.964 experience of your example that you had was, uh, non existent from your 00:14:17.964 --> 00:14:23.475 biological father and, uh, quite difficult and strained with your adoptive father. 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:28.280 Robin Horsfall: Well, I, I met the most wonderful woman when I was 21 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:33.529 and she was 20 and she had two baby girls at the time and she was going 00:14:33.530 --> 00:14:39.030 through a divorce and, um, I was the classic lone wolf at that time. 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:42.620 I was doing selection for 22nd special air service. 00:14:42.690 --> 00:14:46.540 I was, uh, I'd been a soldier from the age of 15 years. 00:14:47.050 --> 00:14:53.569 And, um, bearing in mind my background, I was the archetypal soldier. 00:14:53.850 --> 00:14:55.940 I was hard. 00:14:56.230 --> 00:14:58.390 I was, I hated the world. 00:14:58.640 --> 00:15:03.560 I would have killed anybody for my country, um, in defense of my country. 00:15:03.880 --> 00:15:05.439 Um, I loved being a soldier. 00:15:05.439 --> 00:15:07.400 That was where I got all my self esteem. 00:15:07.670 --> 00:15:12.779 My mother had died after divorcing my, after divorcing my stepfather. 00:15:12.780 --> 00:15:14.100 So the army was my home. 00:15:15.170 --> 00:15:17.920 And, um, I met this, uh, woman. 00:15:19.199 --> 00:15:24.630 And she, she saw right through me and I give her credit for 00:15:24.630 --> 00:15:26.270 giving me back my humanity. 00:15:26.280 --> 00:15:31.709 She got into the cage with the lone wolf and tickled its ears and she would 00:15:31.709 --> 00:15:33.199 say, I know we'll never get married. 00:15:33.199 --> 00:15:38.040 I know you love the army and, uh, but if we ever did, and, uh, three years 00:15:38.040 --> 00:15:41.220 later, we, three years later, we did get married and we've been together for. 00:15:41.685 --> 00:15:43.345 Since 1978. 00:15:43.355 --> 00:15:43.885 So what's that? 00:15:44.385 --> 00:15:45.801 47 years, this 00:15:45.801 --> 00:15:46.084 Travis Bader: November. 00:15:46.085 --> 00:15:46.325 Yeah. 00:15:46.755 --> 00:15:47.185 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 00:15:48.275 --> 00:15:51.715 Travis Bader: You know, you give her a lot of credit as well in the book Fighting 00:15:51.715 --> 00:15:57.954 Scared for it, not just being a retelling of facts, but rather helping have the 00:15:57.975 --> 00:16:01.134 emotional side and the depth to it. 00:16:01.515 --> 00:16:04.534 Robin Horsfall: When I started writing Fighting Scared, um, it was 00:16:04.534 --> 00:16:06.544 a story I desperately wanted to tell. 00:16:07.174 --> 00:16:13.365 And, um, I did the first couple of chapters And I showed it to her and 00:16:13.365 --> 00:16:16.235 she had a read and she came back to me and she held it out to me and 00:16:16.245 --> 00:16:17.935 she said, I said, what do you think? 00:16:17.945 --> 00:16:19.365 She said, this is shit. 00:16:21.615 --> 00:16:22.085 Awesome. 00:16:22.754 --> 00:16:23.204 What do you mean? 00:16:23.214 --> 00:16:23.514 What do you mean? 00:16:23.514 --> 00:16:24.665 She's just a report. 00:16:24.714 --> 00:16:25.944 It's just a series of facts. 00:16:25.944 --> 00:16:26.604 One after the other. 00:16:26.604 --> 00:16:27.624 What happened when it happened? 00:16:27.624 --> 00:16:28.834 It's like a military report. 00:16:29.415 --> 00:16:30.544 She said, where's the color? 00:16:30.915 --> 00:16:33.555 You know, what was the sun shining through your mother's 00:16:33.555 --> 00:16:34.954 window when you said goodbye? 00:16:34.964 --> 00:16:36.025 And how did you feel? 00:16:36.025 --> 00:16:40.140 And, and, And, um, she gradually got me to sit down and, um, 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:42.160 and write the book properly. 00:16:42.910 --> 00:16:47.380 And, uh, there were tears on the paper sometimes because there was a catharsis 00:16:47.380 --> 00:16:52.380 with it, you know, there was an emptying of the soul into, into that story. 00:16:52.824 --> 00:16:58.994 And, um, and I think that's why it's, uh, the book is actually 20 or 22 years 00:16:58.994 --> 00:17:01.764 old now and it still sells really well. 00:17:01.764 --> 00:17:05.345 And I think because it resonates with an awful lot of people, it's not 00:17:05.384 --> 00:17:10.094 the hard man gas and bash them and smash them story that is so popular. 00:17:10.404 --> 00:17:16.284 It's a personal development story and, um, it takes you from this place 00:17:16.284 --> 00:17:19.594 of, uh, misfortune in many ways. 00:17:19.879 --> 00:17:25.099 To a place of, um, relative success and happiness and happiness being 00:17:25.099 --> 00:17:27.010 a success more than anything else. 00:17:27.585 --> 00:17:34.165 Travis Bader: Did you get heat from, um, the army from, or from the UK government 00:17:34.165 --> 00:17:37.435 for fear of spilling secrets or, 00:17:37.884 --> 00:17:41.074 Robin Horsfall: Well, no, there are, there are no secrets in there to start with. 00:17:41.075 --> 00:17:46.115 Um, there are the, the, the SAS part of my life is only six years. 00:17:46.175 --> 00:17:51.225 Um, so it's a piece of the story and, um, We did put the book through 00:17:51.225 --> 00:17:54.585 the Ministry of Defence first and they asked me to take, make two 00:17:54.585 --> 00:17:57.024 minor changes, uh, from the book. 00:17:57.135 --> 00:18:00.144 One because somebody would have been too easily identified 00:18:00.475 --> 00:18:00.655 Travis Bader: and 00:18:00.655 --> 00:18:03.814 Robin Horsfall: the other because I'd mentioned a tactic that had been 00:18:03.814 --> 00:18:08.084 my suggestion in the Falklands War, um, that could have been useful to 00:18:08.084 --> 00:18:09.469 somebody who'd never thought of it. 00:18:09.899 --> 00:18:15.189 So I removed those two small pieces and, uh, but we didn't have to go to them, 00:18:15.189 --> 00:18:17.219 but it was, it was the right thing to do. 00:18:17.219 --> 00:18:22.020 And, uh, and so I removed those two small exits, uh, from the book, but outside 00:18:22.020 --> 00:18:23.590 of that, no, I didn't get any heat. 00:18:23.629 --> 00:18:28.949 Um, uh, um, you know, if there's anything that's secret, you don't go, 00:18:28.959 --> 00:18:30.379 oh my God, I can't talk about that. 00:18:30.379 --> 00:18:31.580 You just go, I don't know. 00:18:31.939 --> 00:18:32.799 Travis Bader: Yeah, that's it. 00:18:32.850 --> 00:18:34.600 It's just, yeah, exactly. 00:18:34.749 --> 00:18:35.889 Just don't say anything. 00:18:35.890 --> 00:18:35.954 Okay. 00:18:36.525 --> 00:18:43.405 It's it, so you got in 15 years old and, uh, you're, you're a para. 00:18:43.565 --> 00:18:51.565 And what I thought was really interesting was a lot of people will go for SAS 00:18:51.575 --> 00:18:54.474 selection, because this is the pinnacle. 00:18:54.484 --> 00:18:55.515 This is what they want to do. 00:18:55.545 --> 00:18:57.005 They've got it built up in their mind. 00:18:57.005 --> 00:18:57.675 This is some great feature. 00:18:57.700 --> 00:19:02.680 thing, but you went and did it sort of the, uh, uh, flip your 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:05.560 nose up at the authorities and say, I'm not going back here. 00:19:05.560 --> 00:19:08.300 I I'm, I got, I got to work around. 00:19:08.300 --> 00:19:10.160 I think I'll just try out for the SAS. 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.740 Robin Horsfall: The first two years of my service were called junior service. 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:13.919 Okay. 00:19:13.940 --> 00:19:18.690 And, um, so that's your full time soldier, but you're not allowed in operations. 00:19:18.690 --> 00:19:22.650 And it's like a military college you're there for two, two and a quarter years. 00:19:23.055 --> 00:19:26.265 until you're old enough to join your adult unit, which was then 00:19:26.315 --> 00:19:27.855 at the age of 17 and a half. 00:19:28.645 --> 00:19:33.644 And, um, I went to the Parachute Regiment and my battalion was the second 00:19:33.644 --> 00:19:35.064 battalion, the Parachute Regiment. 00:19:35.365 --> 00:19:37.274 And, um, that was great. 00:19:37.445 --> 00:19:40.960 Um, when my mother died, She was 37 years old. 00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:41.980 She died of cancer. 00:19:42.520 --> 00:19:44.770 And as I said, the army became my life. 00:19:44.770 --> 00:19:49.010 And I was transferred to stay in the UK to a special anti tank 00:19:49.060 --> 00:19:50.500 unit called the vigilant platoon. 00:19:51.309 --> 00:19:53.740 And it was a guided missile anti tank weapon. 00:19:54.639 --> 00:20:01.860 And, um, a new anti tank weapon came in, in 1977, uh, called Milan, 00:20:02.330 --> 00:20:04.150 which was going to replace us. 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:05.680 So they were going to disband the unit. 00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:08.190 And I said, look, I want to go back to the second battalion. 00:20:08.190 --> 00:20:10.099 It was my parent battalion. 00:20:10.689 --> 00:20:13.379 And they said, well, you're going to stay with the first battalion. 00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:16.239 Um, and I didn't want to do that. 00:20:16.350 --> 00:20:16.659 Travis Bader: And 00:20:16.659 --> 00:20:18.469 Robin Horsfall: I said, well, you'll do as you're damn well told. 00:20:19.110 --> 00:20:23.680 And so, as you say, just to cock a snoot at authority, I said, well, I know 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.320 there's something you can't stop me doing. 00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:30.039 So I went to the battalion clerk's office and, um, and asked to, uh, for the papers 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.070 to volunteer for the special air service. 00:20:32.470 --> 00:20:36.260 Well, you had to have three years of adult service and I just had 00:20:36.260 --> 00:20:37.879 three years of adult service, 00:20:38.179 --> 00:20:38.340 Travis Bader: plus 00:20:38.340 --> 00:20:39.060 Robin Horsfall: the two years. 00:20:40.805 --> 00:20:45.325 And, um, there was a Yorkshireman in the, in the, um, at the 00:20:45.325 --> 00:20:47.025 back of the clerk's office. 00:20:47.585 --> 00:20:50.194 And he said, I don't know why you're going to do that to us. 00:20:50.194 --> 00:20:50.814 Well, he said. 00:20:51.235 --> 00:20:52.084 You're far too young. 00:20:52.084 --> 00:20:54.125 You'll be back with your tail between your legs. 00:20:54.555 --> 00:20:56.915 And, um, and he was wrong. 00:20:56.915 --> 00:21:01.534 I'm glad to say, and, uh, I had to have two goes at it, but, um, I 00:21:01.534 --> 00:21:03.024 got through on the second attempt. 00:21:03.664 --> 00:21:06.424 Travis Bader: Well, you voluntarily took yourself out on the first go. 00:21:08.134 --> 00:21:13.635 Robin Horsfall: Well, yeah, I, um, SAF selection lasts a whole year and the 00:21:13.635 --> 00:21:17.365 first month is in the mountains with the last five days called test week. 00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:21.740 And test week is 5 days marching alone with increasing weights 00:21:21.740 --> 00:21:25.830 on your back, which begin at 35 pounds and extend up every day by 00:21:25.840 --> 00:21:29.019 5, until you're carrying 55 day. 00:21:29.890 --> 00:21:34.330 And the distance begins at 18 miles, and on the 5th day, it 00:21:34.330 --> 00:21:36.989 gets up, the last day is 40 miles. 00:21:37.940 --> 00:21:41.400 And you do this alone with no help, no guidance. 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.560 You go checkpoint to checkpoint, check in, move on to the next place. 00:21:45.500 --> 00:21:49.999 And the first time I did it, I got to day four and it was raining. 00:21:50.070 --> 00:21:51.219 I was alone. 00:21:51.520 --> 00:21:58.109 Um, I'd, um, the weight was, uh, dug two ulcers into my kidney areas of my back 00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:58.715 Travis Bader: and 00:21:58.715 --> 00:22:00.140 Robin Horsfall: they were bleeding painful. 00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:05.279 And, um, psychologically it just got to me and I started thinking about the 40 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.519 miler on the next day and returned to the. 00:22:08.745 --> 00:22:13.605 Previous checkpoint and called it a day and, uh, thought I would be returned 00:22:13.605 --> 00:22:16.935 to unit the next morning, but the major called me in and said, look, 00:22:16.944 --> 00:22:19.784 we think you've got potential, you do well, do you want to stay another four 00:22:19.784 --> 00:22:23.185 months and try again in January, 1979? 00:22:23.595 --> 00:22:24.735 I was, it's no 79. 00:22:25.004 --> 00:22:26.514 And I said, yeah, absolutely. 00:22:26.874 --> 00:22:30.235 And they kept me on and there's two pictures of me in two photographs. 00:22:30.835 --> 00:22:36.715 One is me of the slightly chubby faced, uh, young 21 year old on 00:22:36.715 --> 00:22:39.899 the first Um, selection who fails. 00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:45.860 And, uh, one of me is four months later when I've been getting up at six o'clock 00:22:45.860 --> 00:22:50.409 in the morning, going to the swimming pool, swimming, a thousand meters, going 00:22:50.409 --> 00:22:53.790 and having breakfast, going out and doing an eight mile run with boots on over the 00:22:53.790 --> 00:22:59.320 Hills, coming back, working all day and, um, and, and doing that as a routine. 00:22:59.320 --> 00:23:02.930 And when I had time being up the mountains and the pick, the 00:23:02.930 --> 00:23:07.320 difference between the two looks like a young chubby kid and an athlete. 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:09.480 Um, I look older. 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:10.280 I look stronger. 00:23:10.280 --> 00:23:11.260 My neck's thicker. 00:23:11.530 --> 00:23:12.850 You can see the difference. 00:23:12.870 --> 00:23:14.650 I was ready for it the second time. 00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:17.910 And on the second occasion, only eight of us passed. 00:23:18.320 --> 00:23:24.409 But the idea that people have from some TV shows is that you're cajoled 00:23:24.409 --> 00:23:26.770 and chased and bullied and pushed. 00:23:27.190 --> 00:23:28.630 That's not the case at all. 00:23:28.800 --> 00:23:30.090 You're already a trained soldier. 00:23:30.090 --> 00:23:31.409 You're just given a task to do. 00:23:31.800 --> 00:23:33.080 And there's the time. 00:23:33.080 --> 00:23:33.720 Off you go. 00:23:34.070 --> 00:23:35.480 And if you don't succeed. 00:23:35.910 --> 00:23:39.730 Then you get on, you go back the next morning, nobody shouts, nobody bullies, 00:23:39.730 --> 00:23:42.460 nobody pushes, um, it's just a task. 00:23:42.470 --> 00:23:45.000 Can you achieve alone without any help? 00:23:45.860 --> 00:23:49.530 And the selection process, as I say, last year, you finish that mountain 00:23:49.530 --> 00:23:54.189 phase and then you go on to continuation training, most of which is in the jungle. 00:23:54.589 --> 00:23:58.200 And you work as five man patrols in the jungle, uh, for a month. 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.370 And then you come back from that, you do a combat survival instructor's course. 00:24:01.950 --> 00:24:06.010 And in the last week of that you're chased across the countryside by two battalions 00:24:06.010 --> 00:24:09.780 of soldiers and you have to escape for a week and then you get captured. 00:24:10.990 --> 00:24:14.710 And, um, then if you're not already a paratrooper you do parachute training. 00:24:15.100 --> 00:24:18.440 And then you join your squadron and get your cap badge but you're on probation. 00:24:18.860 --> 00:24:21.639 And you have to join, you have to pass a personal skill and a troop 00:24:21.639 --> 00:24:23.020 skill in the next six months. 00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:26.889 And my personal skill was as a paramedic, and my troop skill 00:24:26.889 --> 00:24:28.170 was as a mountain climber. 00:24:28.629 --> 00:24:32.980 And at the end of that 12 month period, first 12 month period, if they like 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:35.249 you, you can stay for another two years. 00:24:36.054 --> 00:24:40.985 So, um, there's a constant, uh, pressure to succeed, but 00:24:41.024 --> 00:24:43.195 to succeed as an individual. 00:24:43.984 --> 00:24:47.355 Travis Bader: I think, well, do you think that the fact that you had 00:24:47.365 --> 00:24:50.934 difficulty relating with people as you're growing up, difficulty making 00:24:50.934 --> 00:24:58.005 friends puts you in a prime position to be, uh, effective as an SAS soldier, 00:24:58.384 --> 00:25:01.094 but also possibly a double edged sword. 00:25:01.435 --> 00:25:04.095 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, it gave me, it gave me the advantages of 00:25:04.095 --> 00:25:07.935 being able to function alone and not need the support of others. 00:25:08.395 --> 00:25:14.254 Um, but it still made it difficult for me to succeed because what I discovered 00:25:14.255 --> 00:25:19.285 later in my career was that people very often don't get promoted on their merits. 00:25:19.295 --> 00:25:22.914 They get promoted on their, they get promoted on their popularity, 00:25:23.324 --> 00:25:24.934 especially in an institution. 00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:28.820 Which is probably why I've been self employed for the last 25 years. 00:25:29.270 --> 00:25:33.680 Um, you know, I'm a lousy employee, but I'm a damn good boss, especially 00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:38.330 when I'm the only employee, but, um, yeah, I like working alone. 00:25:38.340 --> 00:25:42.319 The other place that it really, really helped was when I became a, 00:25:42.369 --> 00:25:44.169 when I became a raw Marine sniper. 00:25:44.719 --> 00:25:46.190 Now I say a raw Marine sniper. 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.110 It means I was trained by the raw Marines to be a sniper. 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:54.950 And, um, that kind of job suited me perfectly. 00:25:55.585 --> 00:26:01.095 Working alone, having a task to do, being completely self reliant, using 00:26:01.105 --> 00:26:06.355 the absolute pitch of your skills in fieldcraft in order to stay alive and 00:26:06.355 --> 00:26:08.685 to carry out a very difficult task. 00:26:08.935 --> 00:26:13.694 So there are places where it's an advantage and there are places where 00:26:13.694 --> 00:26:15.464 it can be a big disadvantage too. 00:26:15.544 --> 00:26:15.564 Do 00:26:16.324 --> 00:26:22.004 Travis Bader: you enjoy being alone or is it something that you've learned to enjoy? 00:26:22.785 --> 00:26:25.525 Robin Horsfall: I, um, I used to like being alone because it was 00:26:25.525 --> 00:26:27.145 an escape from being unpopular. 00:26:27.695 --> 00:26:27.814 Travis Bader: Um, 00:26:27.815 --> 00:26:33.604 Robin Horsfall: I have times now I'm 67. 00:26:33.605 --> 00:26:38.504 Now I have times where I want to get away for a while and just be 00:26:38.504 --> 00:26:42.985 alone, just walk, just be in the Hills, um, just sit by a Lake. 00:26:43.495 --> 00:26:47.654 Um, but I take all my comfort from. 00:26:47.955 --> 00:26:50.125 Well, nearly all my comfort from my family. 00:26:50.545 --> 00:26:54.615 So I'm not waiting for very long because I miss them as soon as I am. 00:26:56.185 --> 00:26:57.205 Travis Bader: I could relate to that. 00:26:58.885 --> 00:27:07.074 The growing up, you weren't a typical, um, A typically aggressive individual 00:27:07.084 --> 00:27:11.245 from what I've been reading here, aggression, wasn't something that seemed 00:27:11.245 --> 00:27:16.374 to come normal to you, but you taught yourself to be incredibly aggressive. 00:27:16.695 --> 00:27:19.354 Robin Horsfall: Scotsman taught me to be incredibly aggressive. 00:27:20.094 --> 00:27:25.985 When, um, when I joined the second battalion, um, nearly, nearly half the 00:27:25.985 --> 00:27:33.294 battalion were jocks, they were Scotsman and, um, they, they taught me a level 00:27:33.294 --> 00:27:37.125 of aggression that, um, is unsurpassed. 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:39.670 Absolutely unsurpassed anywhere in the world. 00:27:39.980 --> 00:27:43.300 And the point about being a paratrooper is it doesn't matter what your skills are. 00:27:43.629 --> 00:27:46.179 If you're not prepared to fight, then you shouldn't be there. 00:27:47.019 --> 00:27:52.720 And they taught me how to fight, um, and how to fight in a manner that kept you 00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:59.140 alive and how a manner that allowed you to survive among men in very, very, with very 00:27:59.140 --> 00:28:01.430 tough men in very difficult circumstances. 00:28:01.930 --> 00:28:05.640 And sometimes I felt that I was pretending to be like them. 00:28:06.110 --> 00:28:10.500 And then later I realized, um, I think later, when I say later, I'm talking 00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:15.500 about by the time I was about 20, 21, I realized that they'd made me 00:28:15.500 --> 00:28:17.300 like them without any doubt at all. 00:28:18.009 --> 00:28:20.400 Um, yeah, yeah. 00:28:20.489 --> 00:28:22.110 Keen and mean, that's for sure. 00:28:22.110 --> 00:28:23.919 Do you find 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:25.120 Travis Bader: that difficult to turn off? 00:28:26.650 --> 00:28:30.510 Robin Horsfall: Um, as I say, my wife was a big part of that. 00:28:30.810 --> 00:28:35.650 But it was part of my, uh, job as a soldier and it made 00:28:35.650 --> 00:28:37.330 me a better soldier as well. 00:28:37.930 --> 00:28:44.440 Um, now, um, I would regard myself as quite a, a softy in a sense, 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:48.239 in the fact that as we get older, we, we have, we struggled to. 00:28:48.824 --> 00:28:52.764 Uh, shield ourselves as well as we, you know, uh, the love that we have for other 00:28:52.764 --> 00:28:58.465 people is more obvious, uh, and we're more confident showing it, but that person, 00:28:59.225 --> 00:29:04.645 that nasty person is still in there and he's still capable of coming out when the 00:29:04.645 --> 00:29:10.593 time is appropriate and when it's needed, not for anger, but for protection of 00:29:10.593 --> 00:29:12.916 others, for survival, things like that. 00:29:12.916 --> 00:29:13.690 Yeah, it's 00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:14.077 Travis Bader: still 00:29:14.077 --> 00:29:14.464 Robin Horsfall: there. 00:29:15.265 --> 00:29:18.795 Travis Bader: What was it like when you first had your kids and we're 00:29:18.805 --> 00:29:20.305 figuring out how to be a father? 00:29:20.315 --> 00:29:21.925 What did that aggression come out? 00:29:21.935 --> 00:29:28.204 Did the, uh, did you repeat any of the, uh, the mistakes of others? 00:29:28.495 --> 00:29:31.194 Robin Horsfall: No, I, I absolutely the opposite. 00:29:31.304 --> 00:29:37.664 My bad experiences, uh, with my own stepfather, um, and he wasn't all bad. 00:29:37.674 --> 00:29:38.404 Don't get me wrong. 00:29:38.475 --> 00:29:41.325 You know, there were a lot of good things about him you'll get from the book. 00:29:41.505 --> 00:29:41.675 Travis Bader: That's 00:29:41.675 --> 00:29:41.895 Robin Horsfall: right. 00:29:41.965 --> 00:29:48.950 But, um, you know, he, um, those, um, Those bad experiences that 00:29:48.950 --> 00:29:53.860 I had, I used them to make sure they didn't happen to my kids. 00:29:54.280 --> 00:29:59.209 And I also used them to help develop children when I started my martial arts 00:29:59.209 --> 00:30:04.959 schools later on, you know, because I think a person who is genuinely strong and 00:30:04.959 --> 00:30:10.845 disciplined, self disciplined, um, will eventually become I'm much kinder person. 00:30:10.845 --> 00:30:15.325 It's it's insecure, unhappy, ill disciplined, frightened 00:30:15.325 --> 00:30:17.035 people that are vicious. 00:30:17.265 --> 00:30:17.645 Travis Bader: And I 00:30:17.655 --> 00:30:21.705 Robin Horsfall: think a certain element of my viciousness as a young man came from 00:30:21.705 --> 00:30:25.564 the fact that I was frightened, which is why the book's called Fighting Scared. 00:30:26.014 --> 00:30:28.865 And Heather said to me once, you know, why were you fighting so much? 00:30:29.175 --> 00:30:30.315 I said, I was scared of getting hurt. 00:30:33.165 --> 00:30:36.355 Travis Bader: If you don't mind, I'll read a quick section out of the 00:30:36.355 --> 00:30:40.265 book, just so the audience gets a bit of a flavor for what this is about. 00:30:40.595 --> 00:30:43.135 And, uh, maybe we can talk about it. 00:30:44.945 --> 00:30:48.455 I grip my MP5 in both hands and thumb the safety catch, assuring 00:30:48.455 --> 00:30:50.045 myself once again that it was off. 00:30:50.445 --> 00:30:53.635 The only sounds I could hear were the static hissing in my earpiece and the 00:30:53.635 --> 00:30:55.835 sound of my heart pounding in my ears. 00:30:56.235 --> 00:30:58.795 My greatest fear now was of making a mistake that might 00:30:58.795 --> 00:31:00.894 endanger a life, especially mine. 00:31:01.465 --> 00:31:02.555 My mind raced. 00:31:02.855 --> 00:31:03.995 Watch the windows, Robin. 00:31:04.164 --> 00:31:05.894 What do I do if someone looks out now? 00:31:06.154 --> 00:31:06.824 Don't rush. 00:31:06.964 --> 00:31:08.474 Is my pistol still in my holster? 00:31:08.755 --> 00:31:09.625 Where's my partner? 00:31:10.255 --> 00:31:13.695 The police dogs, which were being held back just inside the doors of the college, 00:31:13.715 --> 00:31:17.965 began to feel the tension in their handlers and started barking and howling. 00:31:18.575 --> 00:31:20.674 Why don't you shut the bastard dogs up, I thought. 00:31:21.135 --> 00:31:25.324 The fear that had for so long been my greatest enemy welled up inside me like a 00:31:25.324 --> 00:31:28.065 balloon, waiting to escape from my throat. 00:31:28.860 --> 00:31:29.660 Hello, I thought. 00:31:30.110 --> 00:31:31.030 I'm glad you're here. 00:31:31.330 --> 00:31:33.630 Without you, I wouldn't be functioning at my best. 00:31:33.860 --> 00:31:35.770 I need to be scared to be alert. 00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:39.590 The smallest sounds were magnified and time seemed to slow down. 00:31:40.090 --> 00:31:44.430 Around me, my team members moved into position calmly and without undue haste. 00:31:44.850 --> 00:31:48.300 Only seven years earlier, I had been a frightened young man on the brink 00:31:48.300 --> 00:31:50.440 of adventure, bullied and scared. 00:31:50.710 --> 00:31:54.380 Now I was walking forward into a firefight, the fear under control. 00:31:54.745 --> 00:31:58.085 My commitment to the task complete in the knowledge that I was ready, 00:31:58.365 --> 00:32:00.195 that I was the best man for the job. 00:32:01.645 --> 00:32:02.375 Robin Horsfall: Sounds great. 00:32:02.375 --> 00:32:03.025 Travis Bader: When you read it, 00:32:05.195 --> 00:32:07.184 well, that's, uh, those are your words. 00:32:07.304 --> 00:32:08.185 Those are your words. 00:32:09.425 --> 00:32:11.764 Robin Horsfall: It's surprising when somebody reads something 00:32:11.764 --> 00:32:13.540 to you and you think, Oh, Wow. 00:32:13.540 --> 00:32:13.930 I wrote that 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:15.280 . Travis Bader: Yeah, you did. 00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:21.340 It was, uh, uh, anybody who wants to read the rest is welcome to go get fighting. 00:32:21.340 --> 00:32:21.850 Scared. 00:32:21.850 --> 00:32:25.360 But that was, um, uh, 1980, was it? 00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:26.800 May 5th. 00:32:26.800 --> 00:32:27.430 May the fifth, 00:32:27.430 --> 00:32:30.570 Robin Horsfall: 1980 in London at the Iranian embassy. 00:32:30.570 --> 00:32:30.930 Yeah. 00:32:31.420 --> 00:32:36.130 Um, we were approaching our entry points. 00:32:36.130 --> 00:32:39.345 There were, um, 48 of us that entered the building. 00:32:41.490 --> 00:32:43.680 There were five floors, 55 rooms. 00:32:44.010 --> 00:32:47.080 So we had an eight man team for each floor, including the basement. 00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:53.630 And, um, one of the guys who was abseiling down the back of the building, his foot 00:32:53.630 --> 00:32:58.389 went through a window and he got his gloves stuck in his abseil harness and he 00:32:58.389 --> 00:33:00.290 got jammed there just above the window. 00:33:00.725 --> 00:33:04.615 And I was beneath him and, um, the approach was obviously 00:33:04.615 --> 00:33:06.475 compromised by the broken window. 00:33:06.945 --> 00:33:11.205 So the commander gave the go early and we didn't have time to lay 00:33:11.205 --> 00:33:12.915 the explosives on the back door. 00:33:13.414 --> 00:33:16.935 So, um, my partner went in with a, with an eight pound sledgehammer 00:33:16.935 --> 00:33:18.255 and took the back doors out. 00:33:18.785 --> 00:33:24.335 And, uh, the guys on the front window with the famous footage, um, they, uh, planted 00:33:24.335 --> 00:33:27.890 a frame charge on the window and initiated it when they were only, you know, Only 00:33:27.890 --> 00:33:31.990 a couple of feet away from it and took the windows out and the guys went in from 00:33:31.990 --> 00:33:33.910 all the eight different entry points. 00:33:34.410 --> 00:33:40.609 And, um, I remember above me, uh, Tom was burning on his rope, uh, because the guys 00:33:40.610 --> 00:33:44.869 who had gone past him had gone in with their, with their flashbangs, their stun 00:33:44.870 --> 00:33:47.540 grenades and set fire to the curtains. 00:33:48.090 --> 00:33:51.930 And so the curtains were burning up Tom's hanging above the window and 00:33:51.930 --> 00:33:54.020 turning into the best barbecue in town. 00:33:54.530 --> 00:33:58.610 And, um, he's trying to, he's kicking himself out away from the flames, but his. 00:33:59.155 --> 00:34:01.875 Glove has got caught on the press or switch of his radio. 00:34:02.335 --> 00:34:05.925 So he's cut out all the communications because he's on send. 00:34:06.315 --> 00:34:10.075 And all you can hear is him screaming as he's burning and there's bullets 00:34:10.085 --> 00:34:13.114 coming through the window outwards from the inside above my head. 00:34:13.115 --> 00:34:16.104 And I'm watching him burn and thinking, well, there's nothing I can do. 00:34:16.104 --> 00:34:18.445 Get on with your job on the roof. 00:34:18.475 --> 00:34:21.395 The guys are trying to cut the rope under tension, but they've 00:34:21.405 --> 00:34:22.695 got to get it on the inswing. 00:34:22.865 --> 00:34:25.465 So he lands on the balcony and doesn't drop 30 feet onto the 00:34:25.465 --> 00:34:28.115 concrete, which they succeed in doing. 00:34:28.554 --> 00:34:29.875 Meanwhile, beneath him. 00:34:30.160 --> 00:34:33.450 Tommy Palmer has gone in the window, his head's caught fire, he's gone back 00:34:33.450 --> 00:34:38.580 out, taken off his gas mask, thrown it away, gone back into the gas, without 00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:42.249 a gas mask to carry on his mission, and killed two of the terrorists. 00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:46.110 Tom's down, his legs are burnt, he goes in and carries on his mission. 00:34:46.759 --> 00:34:52.785 On the ground floor, I go in, and um, you know, there's um, a chain of, um, Troops 00:34:52.785 --> 00:34:58.165 already from the ground floor upwards and, uh, one of the hostages come down 00:34:58.335 --> 00:35:02.965 the policeman Trevor Locke and he's passed out and then the other hostages start to 00:35:02.965 --> 00:35:09.794 follow and then, um, there's a scuffle on the stairs and somebody gets butt 00:35:09.825 --> 00:35:14.195 swiped and, um, staggers on the stairs and somebody shouts he's a terrorist. 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:18.440 A terrorist comes clear at the bottom of the stairs holding a hand grenade. 00:35:19.060 --> 00:35:23.450 And, uh, one of my colleagues who was just in front of him shot him 24 times. 00:35:23.910 --> 00:35:27.440 And at the same time I fired three rounds from five meters away. 00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:31.300 And, uh, he died and the pin was still in the grenade. 00:35:31.850 --> 00:35:33.719 And, uh, we took everybody out. 00:35:33.980 --> 00:35:38.980 One of the terrorists got out hidden amongst hostages in seven minutes. 00:35:38.980 --> 00:35:42.110 We rescued 19 people alive. 00:35:42.150 --> 00:35:45.370 One was killed by the terrorist during the entry. 00:35:45.710 --> 00:35:49.310 We killed five terrorists and we captured one seven minutes. 00:35:49.640 --> 00:35:53.250 Um, so it was a very famous piece of British history. 00:35:53.980 --> 00:35:54.570 Travis Bader: No kidding. 00:35:54.590 --> 00:35:56.040 How did your life change after that? 00:35:58.375 --> 00:36:00.645 Robin Horsfall: Things changed because nobody had heard of 00:36:00.655 --> 00:36:02.105 the SAS up to that point. 00:36:02.115 --> 00:36:06.954 You know, they were Fred Karno's army in darkest Herefordshire and nobody 00:36:06.955 --> 00:36:08.745 had, nobody knew very much about us. 00:36:08.745 --> 00:36:12.434 Our main role at that time was counter terrorism and working 00:36:12.434 --> 00:36:13.814 undercover in Northern Ireland. 00:36:14.455 --> 00:36:18.694 So, um, we were not, not a secret service, a regular part of the British 00:36:18.695 --> 00:36:23.105 army, but, um, The secrecy came from the fact that we were targets for, 00:36:23.105 --> 00:36:25.895 uh, um, provisional IRA terrorists. 00:36:25.895 --> 00:36:29.905 And so we had to, we had to remain anonymous during that period of threat. 00:36:30.834 --> 00:36:36.864 Um, so for a while, I think, um, you know, the world, everybody wanted to know 00:36:36.864 --> 00:36:38.664 us, everybody wanted to talk about us. 00:36:38.975 --> 00:36:43.325 Um, we had to remain anonymous and, um, some people started 00:36:43.355 --> 00:36:44.795 to believe their own press 00:36:45.145 --> 00:36:45.715 Travis Bader: and because 00:36:45.715 --> 00:36:47.465 Robin Horsfall: you're special at one thing, it doesn't mean 00:36:47.465 --> 00:36:48.815 you're special at everything. 00:36:49.245 --> 00:36:50.935 So we were special soldiers. 00:36:50.935 --> 00:36:51.124 We were special soldiers. 00:36:51.615 --> 00:36:53.695 And all of a sudden, everybody thought that we were Mr. 00:36:53.695 --> 00:36:56.225 Miyagi and we could, we knew the secrets of life. 00:36:56.745 --> 00:37:01.874 Um, and it took a while for that to settle down and, um, and to 00:37:01.875 --> 00:37:03.895 move on and get on with life again. 00:37:04.214 --> 00:37:09.735 Travis Bader: I think you just got the, uh, the YouTube thumbnail right there. 00:37:10.334 --> 00:37:13.785 Ex SAS soldier speaks about secrets of life. 00:37:14.025 --> 00:37:14.395 Done. 00:37:16.505 --> 00:37:17.145 Not a lie. 00:37:17.155 --> 00:37:17.385 Speaks about 00:37:17.435 --> 00:37:18.185 Robin Horsfall: not being Mr. 00:37:18.185 --> 00:37:18.635 Travis Bader: Miyagi. 00:37:19.325 --> 00:37:20.105 Not being Mr. 00:37:20.445 --> 00:37:21.095 Miyagi. 00:37:21.895 --> 00:37:26.914 So you were talking to the book about getting kind of paraded around 00:37:26.914 --> 00:37:31.015 afterwards, kind of like a bit of a circus show and everyone was interested. 00:37:31.015 --> 00:37:36.805 And I think, uh, Princess Diana, you guys may have been responsible for her, um, 00:37:36.925 --> 00:37:39.585 her sleek new short swept back haircut. 00:37:40.565 --> 00:37:40.875 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 00:37:40.875 --> 00:37:41.795 I get it. 00:37:42.010 --> 00:37:45.020 One of the things that happened afterwards, of course, is every VIP in 00:37:45.030 --> 00:37:49.645 the country Wanted, um, the special day out to visit the special air service 00:37:49.645 --> 00:37:51.275 and see how they trained and functioned. 00:37:52.075 --> 00:37:58.105 And so, um, King Charles now Prince Charles then and, and lady Diana, uh, 00:37:58.125 --> 00:38:02.355 Spencer, his wife, princess Diana, they, uh, they came to visit one day 00:38:02.864 --> 00:38:06.105 and, uh, we said, okay, look, you know, um, would you like to drive? 00:38:06.450 --> 00:38:07.930 The rain drove us up to the building. 00:38:07.930 --> 00:38:12.420 We'll throw the ladders up and do our pretend assault on the, on the building. 00:38:12.920 --> 00:38:17.379 Um, you know, we've gotten some black overalls and, um, you know, 00:38:17.380 --> 00:38:18.720 they, they, and off they did. 00:38:18.720 --> 00:38:22.609 But unbeknownst to us, before she drove the vehicle up, Princess 00:38:22.609 --> 00:38:25.570 Diana undid the window slightly to let some air into the window. 00:38:26.190 --> 00:38:30.120 So when the flashbangs went off, the pyrotechnics set light 00:38:30.130 --> 00:38:31.620 to the lacquer on her hair. 00:38:32.730 --> 00:38:34.530 So one of our, one of my friends. 00:38:35.495 --> 00:38:38.555 Saw that, you know, her hair was burning, so he opened the door, 00:38:38.555 --> 00:38:41.325 pulled her out, slapped her around the head, put the flames out. 00:38:41.385 --> 00:38:44.035 I thought, I'll have a little bit of that, you know, join in. 00:38:44.545 --> 00:38:46.905 You don't get a chance to slap a princess every day. 00:38:48.465 --> 00:38:51.985 And, um, we put the, we put the flames out, you know, her hair was singed, 00:38:51.994 --> 00:38:53.694 but she wasn't burned on the skin. 00:38:54.174 --> 00:38:56.585 But it was a, you know, a bit scary for her. 00:38:57.285 --> 00:39:02.055 And, um, during the lunch break, we got a, A hairdresser from Hereford 00:39:02.415 --> 00:39:04.125 to come and tidy up her hair. 00:39:04.775 --> 00:39:08.535 And she'd had this round shaped cut up to that time. 00:39:09.645 --> 00:39:14.285 And the next day, um, Vogue magazine, um, had the next week 00:39:14.305 --> 00:39:18.804 Vogue magazine had photographs of princess Diana's amazing new page boy 00:39:18.814 --> 00:39:21.184 haircut with the trimmed back sides. 00:39:21.234 --> 00:39:21.604 Travis Bader: Yep. 00:39:21.825 --> 00:39:24.605 Robin Horsfall: And, um, everybody went wild and women 00:39:24.605 --> 00:39:26.005 all over the world copied it 00:39:26.425 --> 00:39:26.545 Travis Bader: and 00:39:26.545 --> 00:39:28.715 Robin Horsfall: they never realized that haircut was courtesy 00:39:28.715 --> 00:39:29.965 of the special air service. 00:39:29.965 --> 00:39:30.055 Yeah, 00:39:30.835 --> 00:39:32.695 Travis Bader: I thought that was a pretty funny anecdote. 00:39:32.995 --> 00:39:38.594 Yeah, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't aware of a number of things. 00:39:38.594 --> 00:39:42.855 One of them, I wasn't aware that the operation had, um, on the embassy. 00:39:43.730 --> 00:39:47.320 Had a, um, it was compromised and had to start sooner than, 00:39:47.470 --> 00:39:48.880 than it was supposed to. 00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:51.550 So that was something that was new information for me. 00:39:53.250 --> 00:39:57.900 One thing that I thought was really interesting was following it up. 00:39:58.770 --> 00:40:05.650 You're back with the boys, everyone's having a beer and the camaraderie 00:40:06.130 --> 00:40:12.240 that you were hoping for, you were seeing, you're writing about that. 00:40:12.240 --> 00:40:15.450 There is a lack of, um, some camaraderie that you were kind 00:40:15.450 --> 00:40:16.749 of hoping to see at that time. 00:40:17.590 --> 00:40:22.320 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, I think when, when you select people to be individuals, 00:40:23.240 --> 00:40:28.330 uh, at the very peak of their abilities, highly, highly skilled, highly 00:40:28.330 --> 00:40:32.790 motivated with an air of paranoia that you're not allowed to fail, everybody 00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:34.169 thinks they should be in charge. 00:40:34.449 --> 00:40:36.090 Everybody thinks they know best. 00:40:36.569 --> 00:40:37.290 Um, so. 00:40:37.845 --> 00:40:42.535 With people like that, you have to keep them incredibly busy to stop them, to 00:40:42.535 --> 00:40:47.605 stop them turning inwards upon each other when you get standard troops or even 00:40:47.765 --> 00:40:52.515 special troops like paratroopers and Marines, um, you know, they're, they're 00:40:52.515 --> 00:40:56.314 trained in the buddy buddy system, you know, always support the weakest man. 00:40:56.824 --> 00:40:57.424 Um, but. 00:40:57.830 --> 00:41:01.430 In special forces really isn't allowed to be anybody weak. 00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:06.669 Um, and so we got back and, um, people started to criticize each other. 00:41:06.680 --> 00:41:11.550 And some of that I think was led by the fact that what we'd, I think we hoped 00:41:11.550 --> 00:41:15.700 for when we got back was some kind of unit citation, maybe a little flash. 00:41:15.700 --> 00:41:19.700 You could wear to say, you are the, you are one of the 60 guys that were in that 00:41:19.700 --> 00:41:21.430 squadron on that day and did that job. 00:41:21.910 --> 00:41:23.940 Nothing, nothing too big deal. 00:41:24.210 --> 00:41:25.850 Just that special flash to you. 00:41:25.850 --> 00:41:28.450 But what the government did, they turned around and said, okay, here's a 00:41:28.450 --> 00:41:30.450 handful of medals given to six people. 00:41:31.390 --> 00:41:36.739 And so they had to select six people from a team that had functioned as a team, as 00:41:36.740 --> 00:41:39.679 a unit, and decide who to give them to. 00:41:39.699 --> 00:41:43.250 And of course, that created certain resentments and bad feelings. 00:41:43.645 --> 00:41:48.825 And, um, it didn't help anybody in any shape or form in any way. 00:41:49.585 --> 00:41:55.835 And, um, it opened up a bit of a can of worms and, and, and create a few enemies 00:41:55.835 --> 00:42:01.674 that, um, in some, some people never really got over, um, they're, uh, they're 00:42:01.674 --> 00:42:03.745 a special kind that they're thoroughbreds. 00:42:04.305 --> 00:42:07.375 You know, you, you, you get a load of, you get a load of ponies and stick them 00:42:07.375 --> 00:42:08.865 in a field together, they'll run around. 00:42:09.175 --> 00:42:12.505 You get a couple of thoroughbreds and stick a stallion in there as well, 00:42:12.695 --> 00:42:14.225 they're gonna kick shit out of each other. 00:42:14.894 --> 00:42:17.815 So, um, you've got to keep them busy, you've got to keep them running, 00:42:17.815 --> 00:42:19.075 you've got to keep them tired and fed. 00:42:19.514 --> 00:42:25.515 And, um, and, um, most of my six years, looking backwards, Awesomely busy. 00:42:25.825 --> 00:42:27.075 It never really stopped. 00:42:27.775 --> 00:42:30.045 Travis Bader: You mentioned something there about failure. 00:42:30.095 --> 00:42:35.964 And I've read in other places, your ideas on failure or not being allowed 00:42:35.965 --> 00:42:40.615 to fail, which I think resonates with today's generation as well. 00:42:40.935 --> 00:42:42.174 Can I hear your thoughts on that? 00:42:42.235 --> 00:42:42.755 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 00:42:42.784 --> 00:42:48.464 I mean, I've been in environments where I was inspired by people who understood. 00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:52.430 They can help your development and help you to grow. 00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:56.420 And you learn more from failure than you ever do from success. 00:42:57.459 --> 00:43:00.829 Um, and then I had that six years where I lived in an environment where 00:43:00.829 --> 00:43:06.349 especially being a person who, um, lacked, uh, the charisma and popularity 00:43:06.349 --> 00:43:10.790 that helped, um, where, you know, it was even more important for me not to fail, 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:11.600 Travis Bader: because 00:43:11.600 --> 00:43:14.140 Robin Horsfall: if I did fail, it would be used against me straight away to be 00:43:14.140 --> 00:43:23.410 no element of And so, um, What that, what that taught me was to, to make sure 00:43:23.410 --> 00:43:28.150 that I didn't put anybody else in the same position that I'd been in myself. 00:43:28.630 --> 00:43:34.570 And I understood that failure is a necessary part of the learning process. 00:43:35.030 --> 00:43:37.570 You have to get it wrong before you get it right. 00:43:38.140 --> 00:43:39.610 And we all have to do that. 00:43:39.610 --> 00:43:39.974 And. 00:43:40.135 --> 00:43:43.365 Confusion is a natural part of the learning process as well. 00:43:43.715 --> 00:43:48.335 A lot of young people and adults, um, get to a certain point in learning 00:43:48.875 --> 00:43:52.545 where they get confused and then they convince themselves that they can't do it. 00:43:53.164 --> 00:43:53.264 Travis Bader: And 00:43:53.425 --> 00:43:57.045 Robin Horsfall: convincing them as a teacher that this is absolutely normal 00:43:57.295 --> 00:44:01.625 and just to keep plodding forward and eventually that confusion will disappear 00:44:01.845 --> 00:44:06.435 and the process will begin and you will start to absorb the language, the skill, 00:44:06.655 --> 00:44:09.284 the ability that you're searching for. 00:44:09.715 --> 00:44:10.624 Um, so. 00:44:10.765 --> 00:44:14.475 A lot of, I mean, adversity can create character, it can 00:44:14.475 --> 00:44:16.255 create good and bad character. 00:44:16.885 --> 00:44:21.945 Um, and we're very much creatures that love to follow a leader. 00:44:22.695 --> 00:44:26.015 And we'll imitate our leaders, we'll imitate people we admire. 00:44:26.495 --> 00:44:30.285 So if we admire a bully, we'll start to behave like a bully. 00:44:30.815 --> 00:44:34.685 And if we admire somebody who inspires us because they're the absolute opposite, 00:44:34.915 --> 00:44:41.485 what we might refer to as a hero, um, then we'll, we'll imitate that person as well. 00:44:41.495 --> 00:44:43.044 And that's what we should all aspire to. 00:44:44.095 --> 00:44:44.784 Travis Bader: It's interesting. 00:44:44.784 --> 00:44:45.964 You bring up the word hero. 00:44:45.965 --> 00:44:51.055 Cause when we were talking before, uh, that was one word that you 00:44:51.745 --> 00:44:53.435 don't feel comfortable with. 00:44:54.065 --> 00:44:57.005 And I guess there would be two questions. 00:44:57.005 --> 00:45:00.375 Like one, I, I, I get, I do get the sense of why. 00:45:00.750 --> 00:45:02.910 You would not feel comfortable with that. 00:45:03.120 --> 00:45:04.510 You're very humble. 00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:14.620 Modest individual, but in your sense of the word hero, what would be a hero? 00:45:16.650 --> 00:45:22.010 Robin Horsfall: A hero is somebody that willingly puts themselves into danger, um, 00:45:22.180 --> 00:45:28.509 life threatening danger, or even career threatening danger for the benefit of 00:45:28.509 --> 00:45:30.724 somebody else with no possible reward. 00:45:32.655 --> 00:45:39.055 That I think is how I regard the classical form of hero and the 00:45:39.055 --> 00:45:41.075 classical form of courage as well. 00:45:42.835 --> 00:45:47.915 The reason I shy away from the word a lot is because it's misused. 00:45:48.434 --> 00:45:49.904 It's used about footballers. 00:45:50.464 --> 00:45:52.034 It's used about politicians. 00:45:52.034 --> 00:45:56.985 It's used about everybody that somebody wants to put on a 00:45:56.985 --> 00:45:58.905 pedestal and say, Oh, great. 00:45:58.905 --> 00:46:00.285 Wasn't this person wonderful? 00:46:00.735 --> 00:46:04.235 Um, and it may be for something as good as making a nice cake. 00:46:04.615 --> 00:46:09.304 Um, and so it dilutes the power of the word. 00:46:09.945 --> 00:46:16.765 And, um, when I have been very kindly referred to in that way, what flashes 00:46:16.765 --> 00:46:19.305 through my head is a soccer player 00:46:21.485 --> 00:46:21.615 Travis Bader: who 00:46:21.615 --> 00:46:21.925 Robin Horsfall: scored a goal. 00:46:25.435 --> 00:46:30.105 Travis Bader: You spoke about Pat the cook as a bit of a revenge story. 00:46:30.165 --> 00:46:31.965 Is that something that you'd want to talk about? 00:46:32.890 --> 00:46:36.400 Robin Horsfall: Well, yeah, I think it's, um, it was an important part of my life. 00:46:36.490 --> 00:46:38.960 Um, I was, how old would I have been? 00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:42.130 Uh, 1977. 00:46:42.140 --> 00:46:43.049 So yeah, 20. 00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.119 Um, I'd never been a drinker. 00:46:46.510 --> 00:46:49.989 I found very early in my life that there's two things that I couldn't 00:46:49.989 --> 00:46:51.600 do very well if I was drunk. 00:46:51.979 --> 00:46:55.030 The first one was fight and the second one starts with F as well. 00:46:55.590 --> 00:47:00.730 And, um, so, uh, I, um, and I got drunk very quickly. 00:47:00.770 --> 00:47:02.069 He used to call me two pint Bob. 00:47:02.085 --> 00:47:10.535 So, um, I, um, I discovered cars and girls, um, which were, which far more 00:47:10.535 --> 00:47:17.355 fun and, um, and, uh, and kept myself away from, uh, the drinking parties. 00:47:18.265 --> 00:47:21.524 Um, but I was in the Kelia in Cyprus. 00:47:22.075 --> 00:47:29.745 in 1977 and, um, I went back from the bar early, went to bed alone in a large room 00:47:29.745 --> 00:47:36.335 with about 24 beds in, and two guys came in drunk and, um, attacked me in my bed 00:47:36.584 --> 00:47:42.905 for fun, um, beat me with brim handles, attacked me with a razor, uh, broke my 00:47:42.905 --> 00:47:49.675 jaw, dislocated my jaw on the other side, broke my ribs, broke my fingers, um, broke 00:47:49.675 --> 00:47:57.410 my, um, upper bones on my cheeks, um, and, um, and then dragged me in the showers 00:47:57.410 --> 00:48:01.850 to try and get me to recover, beat me, beat me, beat my head against the tiles 00:48:01.850 --> 00:48:06.279 in the showers, threw me back in the bed bleeding and covered me with a sheet. 00:48:07.449 --> 00:48:10.869 And when the other guys came back later that night, one of the corporals 00:48:10.900 --> 00:48:13.810 came and pulled the sheet off me because he thought I was snoring too 00:48:13.810 --> 00:48:16.460 loudly and saw the blood and the mess. 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.030 And, um, I was struggling to breathe and, uh, I was taken to hospital, 00:48:21.030 --> 00:48:22.839 intubated on the way to hospital. 00:48:23.710 --> 00:48:29.280 And, um, I could pull the bruises apart on my eyes after about a 00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:33.109 week so that I could see my face, which was an oval of bruising. 00:48:33.820 --> 00:48:38.520 And, um, uh, after six weeks, I returned back to the United Kingdom. 00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:44.230 And, um, one of the things that went through me at that time was, 00:48:45.190 --> 00:48:47.170 This will never happen to me again. 00:48:48.020 --> 00:48:50.390 Nobody will ever do this to me again. 00:48:50.390 --> 00:48:54.479 I will never give anybody the opportunity to do this to me again. 00:48:55.230 --> 00:49:00.760 And I became that archetypal vicious hit first, ask questions later person. 00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:05.200 I never ever picked on anybody, um, for, without a good reason. 00:49:05.490 --> 00:49:08.750 I always, but there was always somebody in the military looking for trouble. 00:49:09.210 --> 00:49:11.470 And if they were looking for it, boy, boy, oh boy, I was 00:49:11.470 --> 00:49:12.790 prepared to give it to them first. 00:49:14.265 --> 00:49:19.985 Um, the two people that attacked me, one was, as you mentioned, Paddy, the cook. 00:49:20.575 --> 00:49:26.144 And, um, he had bragged about it over the following year and I'd 00:49:26.145 --> 00:49:29.655 seen him a couple of times in town, but never an appropriate time. 00:49:30.485 --> 00:49:33.635 And after a couple of years, I caught up with him at a party and he stepped 00:49:33.654 --> 00:49:40.035 out the fire door to go to urinate and I followed him and, um, you know, he, 00:49:40.045 --> 00:49:42.185 he followed my example into hospital. 00:49:43.215 --> 00:49:44.825 The other guy, Bill King. 00:49:45.180 --> 00:49:51.370 Bill, um, went to a mental institution, and was held there for quite a long time, 00:49:52.330 --> 00:49:56.080 and then returned to the unit, and the first thing he did was he found me, and 00:49:56.080 --> 00:49:58.370 profusely and humbly apologized to me. 00:49:59.229 --> 00:50:03.160 I wasn't quite sure what to do about that, so I sort of nodded, 00:50:03.220 --> 00:50:06.929 shook his head, and walked away, rather confused, a bit bewildered. 00:50:09.325 --> 00:50:11.675 And life went on and we didn't see each other. 00:50:11.675 --> 00:50:17.385 And then 30 years later, I was going to a reunion in a bar in Brecon 00:50:18.065 --> 00:50:19.575 to a place called the blue bore. 00:50:20.145 --> 00:50:22.465 And a guy jumped out in the street and grabbed me. 00:50:23.125 --> 00:50:25.175 And he said, Rob, Rob, it's me, Bill. 00:50:25.194 --> 00:50:26.764 And he looked wild in the eyes. 00:50:27.615 --> 00:50:31.525 And he said, mate, mate, he said, I'm still sorry about what 00:50:31.535 --> 00:50:32.565 happened all those years ago. 00:50:32.565 --> 00:50:33.325 I'm still sorry. 00:50:33.325 --> 00:50:34.185 I'm still sorry. 00:50:35.215 --> 00:50:37.665 I kissed him on both cheeks and said, it's all right, Bill. 00:50:38.625 --> 00:50:40.015 And I just walked down the road. 00:50:40.325 --> 00:50:44.095 And, uh, so that was, uh, I feel very good about that. 00:50:44.255 --> 00:50:44.325 I 00:50:44.325 --> 00:50:45.185 Travis Bader: feel very good about 00:50:45.195 --> 00:50:45.225 Robin Horsfall: that. 00:50:45.945 --> 00:50:49.905 Travis Bader: So how do you feel from one person to the other? 00:50:49.915 --> 00:50:52.944 How did it feel when you were able to exact that revenge on the 00:50:52.945 --> 00:50:57.835 individual compared to kissing the guy on the cheek and walking away? 00:50:58.885 --> 00:51:00.685 Robin Horsfall: Well, there's a huge difference in age. 00:51:01.000 --> 00:51:03.910 But they were both very, they were both very satisfying. 00:51:05.510 --> 00:51:06.040 Travis Bader: Excellent. 00:51:06.790 --> 00:51:14.060 So you had an interesting story of, uh, some time in the Falklands there and, uh, 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:20.979 on Ascension Island and, uh, gearing up for a, for essentially a suicide mission. 00:51:22.290 --> 00:51:23.889 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, we, um, up Ricardo. 00:51:24.530 --> 00:51:31.290 Our job in the Falklands was to fly into Argentina, land on a runway in two C 130 00:51:31.290 --> 00:51:39.290 Hercules aircraft, 60 of us dismount, and then take out the Super Etendard jets 00:51:39.670 --> 00:51:43.150 that were carrying the Exocet missiles that were sinking our capital ships, 00:51:44.430 --> 00:51:46.650 destroy them, and be killed or captured. 00:51:47.200 --> 00:51:50.509 There was no way home, there was no fuel, there was no return journey. 00:51:51.249 --> 00:51:54.830 My wife Heather was eight months pregnant with our first son, Alex, 00:51:55.020 --> 00:51:58.679 and we got as far as Ascension Islands ready to go, we got on the aircraft. 00:52:00.090 --> 00:52:04.830 And, um, Ronald Reagan put pressure on Margaret Thatcher not to extend the war 00:52:04.830 --> 00:52:09.440 onto the mainland because the main bulk of the British armed forces were doing so 00:52:09.440 --> 00:52:12.040 well and were advancing on Port Stanley. 00:52:12.040 --> 00:52:17.829 So eventually the mission was cancelled and, um, so that we could get involved 00:52:17.829 --> 00:52:19.269 in the war before it was over. 00:52:19.919 --> 00:52:23.720 Uh, we set off to fly down and instead of going into Argentina. 00:52:24.365 --> 00:52:28.315 Uh, one of the, one of the aircraft turned around and went back 'cause 00:52:28.315 --> 00:52:31.015 a refueling nozzle bloke, uh, broke. 00:52:31.015 --> 00:52:36.555 And, um, we got there, 32 of us, and we, um, jumped out the back 00:52:36.555 --> 00:52:38.655 of the C one 30 into the sea. 00:52:39.495 --> 00:52:44.355 And, um, the RAF had put parachutes onto containers, which were, which carried all 00:52:44.355 --> 00:52:49.050 our equipment and the parachutes came off and all our equipment went into the sea. 00:52:49.560 --> 00:52:51.220 And nearly sank our own ships. 00:52:51.220 --> 00:52:56.460 And so we got picked up from the sea, um, on board the ship. 00:52:56.890 --> 00:52:59.890 Um, all our equipment had gone to the bottom of the ocean. 00:52:59.890 --> 00:53:04.360 We were trying to, uh, bodge together enough equipment to carry out a 00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:07.800 raiding mission on port Stanley while the paras and Marines were 00:53:07.809 --> 00:53:09.130 approaching from the other side. 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:11.770 And, um, and the enemy surrendered. 00:53:12.240 --> 00:53:15.490 So they clearly heard that 30 members of the famous B squadron 00:53:15.500 --> 00:53:18.920 arrived in the Falklands and decided to kill it before it was too late 00:53:21.410 --> 00:53:22.529 with no kit and equipment. 00:53:22.790 --> 00:53:24.340 Um, very scary. 00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:28.900 The fact that we were prepared to go ahead and do that mission, um, 00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:34.259 without question was, um, important, but, um, I'm glad it never happened. 00:53:35.779 --> 00:53:36.269 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:53:36.339 --> 00:53:43.460 I mean, there, there were times when you had voiced your, uh, Not objections, 00:53:43.490 --> 00:53:47.420 maybe concerns, maybe suggestions for other ways that things could be done. 00:53:48.120 --> 00:53:49.080 How'd that go over? 00:53:50.640 --> 00:53:52.610 Robin Horsfall: Well, when we got to Ascension islands, 00:53:52.610 --> 00:53:54.040 then the mission was delayed. 00:53:54.040 --> 00:53:57.520 We'd had time to gather more information. 00:53:58.480 --> 00:54:03.439 And we knew that we discovered that the Argentinians had surface to air missiles. 00:54:03.810 --> 00:54:06.490 On Rio Grande and Ushuaia airports. 00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:10.500 So we were asking questions like, well, how the hell are we going to fly these 00:54:10.500 --> 00:54:15.180 two aircraft onto these runways if they've got surface to air missiles? 00:54:15.350 --> 00:54:15.649 Okay. 00:54:15.649 --> 00:54:16.839 We've got a mission to do. 00:54:17.339 --> 00:54:20.469 We're going to get off and do that mission and accept the consequences. 00:54:20.759 --> 00:54:23.140 But what's the point of even trying to, I'm going to get blown out of 00:54:23.149 --> 00:54:25.389 the sky before we even get there. 00:54:25.919 --> 00:54:31.539 Um, and, uh, Brigadier Peter de la Billia insisted that we do it his way. 00:54:32.410 --> 00:54:36.080 And we made other sensible suggestions like, look, okay, we've got to fly there. 00:54:37.210 --> 00:54:42.600 Let's parachute in maybe a few kilometers off the target, walk onto target and 00:54:42.600 --> 00:54:46.670 hit them with, um, guided missiles from a couple of kilometers out and 00:54:46.670 --> 00:54:50.260 take out the jets that way when they're taxing, but they didn't want to hear it. 00:54:50.300 --> 00:54:52.490 So that frustrated us a great deal because. 00:54:52.900 --> 00:54:58.150 Well, we, there we were trying to improve our chances of staying alive and still 00:54:58.170 --> 00:55:04.750 carry out a successful mission, um, with no way home, but, uh, the people that were 00:55:04.750 --> 00:55:06.700 at the very top didn't want to hear it. 00:55:06.980 --> 00:55:08.719 So we were, you know, that was forever. 00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:12.350 That was frustrating, but we were still prepared to go and do it regardless. 00:55:13.560 --> 00:55:16.865 Travis Bader: Well, I think the most frustrating part would be, uh, Those who 00:55:16.865 --> 00:55:21.215 would turn around and say that you weren't prepared or that you was cowardice, 00:55:21.235 --> 00:55:23.405 that you're voicing these concerns. 00:55:23.555 --> 00:55:23.755 Robin Horsfall: No. 00:55:23.755 --> 00:55:29.294 Well, um, the Billy who was, um, leaving the regiment just after the 00:55:29.295 --> 00:55:33.565 Falklands, he was no, he was going to be promoted to a major general. 00:55:33.884 --> 00:55:36.145 And so he would no longer be part of special forces. 00:55:36.405 --> 00:55:37.235 Now, don't get me wrong. 00:55:37.245 --> 00:55:40.965 I mean, as a soldier, he was the archetypal leader and officer. 00:55:41.265 --> 00:55:45.805 Brave, stubborn, brutal, and, um, had a lot of respect. 00:55:46.345 --> 00:55:51.225 But, uh, in this particular case, you know, again, you know, but 00:55:51.225 --> 00:55:54.594 he wasn't, he, he wasn't popular. 00:55:55.115 --> 00:55:59.335 And, uh, in this particular case, he gave us damn good reason for it, mate. 00:55:59.374 --> 00:56:03.145 I mean, a big part of that, as you say, was when we returned and we had a debrief. 00:56:03.825 --> 00:56:07.325 When you have a debrief when you get back from a mission, the purpose of 00:56:07.325 --> 00:56:11.405 that debrief is to find out how you can do it better next time, how you 00:56:11.405 --> 00:56:15.395 can improve on it, and instead of that, they just said, Oh, you guys were great. 00:56:15.414 --> 00:56:16.395 You guys are wonderful. 00:56:16.730 --> 00:56:21.660 And then the Billy and his valedictory speech when he was leaving, he, 00:56:21.660 --> 00:56:28.240 um, he stood up and, and virtually accused us of being cowards for 00:56:28.240 --> 00:56:29.989 not wanting to do it his way. 00:56:30.049 --> 00:56:35.050 And then he told a story about a second world war major. 00:56:35.570 --> 00:56:39.580 Who had been stopped by the French resistance and told not to go down a 00:56:39.580 --> 00:56:44.890 particular road because the enemy were laying in ambush and, uh, he went anyway. 00:56:45.550 --> 00:56:49.300 And we were expecting a punchline to this story where it was going to be, and he 00:56:49.300 --> 00:56:53.689 saved the day, but then he said, well, and he drove into the ambush and got killed. 00:56:54.580 --> 00:56:56.019 Well, we just started laughing. 00:56:56.029 --> 00:56:58.759 We just think of this ridiculous, you know, what a dumb ass. 00:56:59.029 --> 00:57:03.719 And, um, and he didn't get it, you know, he didn't get when we, 00:57:03.839 --> 00:57:05.379 and we wouldn't stop laughing. 00:57:05.705 --> 00:57:09.695 until he got off the stage and the new his replacement stepped up at which 00:57:09.695 --> 00:57:13.925 second We went absolutely silent in respect for the new officer taking over. 00:57:14.305 --> 00:57:18.015 So it was our way of poking our finger in his face and saying, 00:57:18.305 --> 00:57:19.424 get your ass out of here. 00:57:19.725 --> 00:57:21.424 Travis Bader: Message sent message received. 00:57:23.145 --> 00:57:27.725 You were then later put on a, uh, the Royal Marine sniper course. 00:57:28.515 --> 00:57:32.845 And we're pretty happy to be put on that from what I understand was, yeah, 00:57:32.995 --> 00:57:33.485 Robin Horsfall: yeah. 00:57:33.485 --> 00:57:37.615 I mean, the, um, the Royal Marine sniper course, the Royal Marines, um, were the 00:57:37.615 --> 00:57:42.435 only unit in the British armed forces that maintained the sniper skill qualification 00:57:42.745 --> 00:57:44.614 from the first world war onwards. 00:57:45.444 --> 00:57:49.314 Now, a lot of journalists misuse the word sniper. 00:57:50.145 --> 00:57:54.585 Um, they think anybody with a, with some kind of small arm shooting from a distance 00:57:54.965 --> 00:57:57.045 is, uh, is, uh, they call them a sniper. 00:57:57.045 --> 00:58:00.645 They're not, uh, initially they're a gunman and if they're good at 00:58:00.645 --> 00:58:04.014 shooting, they're a marksman, but they're not a sniper. 00:58:04.044 --> 00:58:09.915 A sniper is an expert in field craft, an expert in camouflage, judging distance, 00:58:10.114 --> 00:58:14.665 map reading, air photography, recognizing the relief of the ground, being able 00:58:14.665 --> 00:58:17.255 to move invisibly, being able to shoot. 00:58:18.220 --> 00:58:22.320 from an invisible position and then disappear and get away without 00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:26.319 being seen, be able to stalk an opponent without being seen, get 00:58:26.319 --> 00:58:28.449 close to an enemy and get away again. 00:58:28.729 --> 00:58:35.240 So the elements of fieldcraft are at its absolute peak with, um, with a sniper. 00:58:35.629 --> 00:58:37.500 So a sniper is all of those things. 00:58:37.510 --> 00:58:41.290 He's the absolute peak of an infantry soldier's fieldcraft skills. 00:58:41.940 --> 00:58:43.220 And so it's misused. 00:58:43.220 --> 00:58:44.840 The word's misused a lot of the time. 00:58:44.860 --> 00:58:45.220 I. 00:58:45.535 --> 00:58:47.255 wanted to go on that course. 00:58:47.255 --> 00:58:53.335 So, um, and, um, I'd only been home from the Falklands a few weeks and 00:58:53.335 --> 00:58:55.355 thought, great, I've got a new baby boy. 00:58:55.575 --> 00:58:56.175 I'll get a rest. 00:58:56.175 --> 00:58:56.435 Nope. 00:58:56.815 --> 00:59:00.114 Straight down to Royal Marines, Limpston and on this course. 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:05.410 And, um, yeah, it was, it was absolutely incredible. 00:59:05.410 --> 00:59:12.409 And, um, it was, uh, uh, one of the things that I'm, I'm as proud of passing that 00:59:12.859 --> 00:59:17.689 with their two grades, the top grade was marksman and the second grade was sniper. 00:59:18.780 --> 00:59:21.040 Four of the 12 on the course passed it. 00:59:21.530 --> 00:59:24.540 And I was one of the two that got sniper marksman. 00:59:25.250 --> 00:59:28.520 And, um, you know, and I thought, right, I'm coming back with this. 00:59:28.520 --> 00:59:29.889 I'm coming back to this qualification. 00:59:29.889 --> 00:59:31.030 You can't take it away from me. 00:59:31.219 --> 00:59:32.450 The rural Marines gave it to me. 00:59:32.450 --> 00:59:33.610 I'll get my promotion. 00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:35.890 Didn't happen. 00:59:35.890 --> 00:59:40.480 Um, because, um, somebody turned around, you didn't like me and said, 00:59:40.820 --> 00:59:42.280 oh, well, that's just coursemanship. 00:59:43.270 --> 00:59:44.200 Whatever that means. 00:59:44.320 --> 00:59:44.680 Travis Bader: Yeah. 00:59:44.710 --> 00:59:45.610 Whatever that means. 00:59:46.210 --> 00:59:46.530 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, 00:59:47.310 --> 00:59:51.130 Travis Bader: well, didn't it turn out that you were sent on that course, 00:59:51.310 --> 00:59:55.659 maybe not as a prize, but as a, uh, in the hopes that you would fail and 00:59:55.660 --> 00:59:58.599 that'd be a excuse to RT, RTU you? 00:59:59.570 --> 00:59:59.900 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 00:59:59.900 --> 01:00:02.850 Well, the, um, I had a, I had a disagreement with a 01:00:02.850 --> 01:00:04.320 Sergeant when I was a trooper. 01:00:05.485 --> 01:00:11.485 And, um, he'd taken me off, uh, uh, an air air fire control, of course, that I wanted 01:00:11.515 --> 01:00:15.505 to do on the grounds that I wouldn't be there and I was doing something else. 01:00:15.525 --> 01:00:17.914 And the fact was that I thought he'd made a mistake. 01:00:18.525 --> 01:00:21.884 And so, um, I complained and said, look, the course starts on 01:00:21.884 --> 01:00:23.275 Monday and I'm back on Friday. 01:00:24.344 --> 01:00:27.175 And, um, he said, well, the job is done now. 01:00:27.175 --> 01:00:28.565 And so it's not going to change. 01:00:29.355 --> 01:00:33.055 So when I arrived back on the Friday, I bumped into the two I see in my company 01:00:33.635 --> 01:00:34.545 and he said, what's wrong with you? 01:00:34.554 --> 01:00:35.945 You've got a face like thunder. 01:00:36.435 --> 01:00:37.214 And I told him. 01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:39.630 And, uh, he said, you want me to do something? 01:00:39.670 --> 01:00:40.430 I said, no, no. 01:00:40.450 --> 01:00:42.960 I said, just make things worse, but he ignored that. 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:47.560 And he went and, uh, he went and, uh, looked into it and discovered that this 01:00:47.560 --> 01:00:51.499 guy had lied to the sergeant major to check, get, get his own guy on the course. 01:00:52.589 --> 01:00:58.650 And, um, two years later, he was the squadron sergeant major and 01:00:58.650 --> 01:01:00.160 he made it his purpose in life. 01:01:00.595 --> 01:01:05.225 To get me thrown out and uh, they sent me on the Arabic course 01:01:05.275 --> 01:01:07.645 to a lot of people failed it. 01:01:07.785 --> 01:01:08.545 I passed it. 01:01:08.995 --> 01:01:10.915 They put me on the Royal Marine Sniper course. 01:01:11.245 --> 01:01:12.074 I passed it. 01:01:12.464 --> 01:01:16.415 They put me on the Mountain Guides course to Chamonix, which two year course. 01:01:16.915 --> 01:01:19.375 And when they told me, I thought, great, I'd love to do that. 01:01:19.425 --> 01:01:20.205 And they took me off it. 01:01:21.785 --> 01:01:24.955 So, um, you know, um, what can you do? 01:01:25.475 --> 01:01:29.665 Um, I actually believe at that time that all I had to do was keep doing my job. 01:01:30.085 --> 01:01:31.145 Better and better and better. 01:01:31.195 --> 01:01:33.345 And eventually it would be noticed, 01:01:33.725 --> 01:01:34.215 Travis Bader: but, 01:01:34.255 --> 01:01:38.215 Robin Horsfall: um, in an institution, it just takes one person, one 01:01:38.215 --> 01:01:41.594 rank higher than you, and they can screw your whole future up. 01:01:41.624 --> 01:01:43.365 And, and he succeeded in doing that. 01:01:44.344 --> 01:01:49.584 Travis Bader: Looking back now, knowing what you know now, uh, are there different 01:01:49.584 --> 01:01:51.395 ways that you would have approached that? 01:01:53.205 --> 01:01:56.035 Robin Horsfall: Um, I got into the SAS when I was 21. 01:01:56.385 --> 01:02:00.175 And one thing Bosley, the clerk in the office was right 01:02:00.205 --> 01:02:02.235 about was that I was too young. 01:02:03.155 --> 01:02:08.585 Um, by the time I was 27, I had a little bit more wisdom about 01:02:08.735 --> 01:02:13.914 keeping my mouth shut in the right circumstances and not voicing an opinion 01:02:13.915 --> 01:02:16.475 no matter how true I knew it to be. 01:02:18.200 --> 01:02:19.770 I still struggle with that today. 01:02:21.430 --> 01:02:26.730 I'm still a great fan of the truth, but I like to be able to support it from 01:02:27.210 --> 01:02:29.379 a position of verifiable authority. 01:02:30.019 --> 01:02:32.979 But, um, you know, the age and wisdom. 01:02:33.425 --> 01:02:38.205 Uh, there are times when it's, it's not going to hurt you to be diplomatically 01:02:38.205 --> 01:02:42.424 silent for a while and find an alternative route to get to the same place. 01:02:42.865 --> 01:02:46.955 Um, so, but I was, I was very young and, um, that naivety, 01:02:47.225 --> 01:02:49.104 uh, played against me as well. 01:02:49.665 --> 01:02:55.475 Um, but, um, I purchased my discharge from the army when I was 27, thinking 01:02:55.475 --> 01:03:00.275 that I was going to be in for 22 years, I'd done 12 years and, um, 01:03:00.775 --> 01:03:02.569 it turned out to be one of the best. 01:03:03.120 --> 01:03:05.470 Best things that could have ever happened to me looking back. 01:03:05.470 --> 01:03:10.520 So something bad happens in your life that can end up being a very positive thing. 01:03:10.520 --> 01:03:16.820 Later on, um, leaving the military after 12 years freed me up to explore 01:03:16.989 --> 01:03:21.390 my true potential to do other things, to have different experiences. 01:03:21.940 --> 01:03:23.360 And go in different directions. 01:03:23.370 --> 01:03:29.370 And I don't think if I'd stayed in the military for 22, 24 years, um, 01:03:29.670 --> 01:03:31.420 that I would have achieved as much. 01:03:32.750 --> 01:03:33.300 Travis Bader: I agree. 01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.959 I agree. 01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:35.140 I think you would have been stifled. 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:36.210 Hmm. 01:03:37.479 --> 01:03:42.320 Um, so from there you went on and did some bodyguard work 01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:43.790 and a bit of mercenary work. 01:03:43.790 --> 01:03:51.220 And that's, uh, um, an interesting thing to read about is, um, there was, 01:03:51.625 --> 01:03:56.185 One thing that I read and I thought was really interesting and it says, I 01:03:56.185 --> 01:04:01.405 was never quite the same again after Mozambique, I felt that I'd been tested 01:04:01.715 --> 01:04:04.145 and I wished hardly that I hadn't. 01:04:06.585 --> 01:04:07.165 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 01:04:07.275 --> 01:04:10.834 Um, Mozambique was a infantry war. 01:04:11.514 --> 01:04:16.635 We had no support arms, no air cover, no insurance, no backup. 01:04:17.665 --> 01:04:20.495 Uh, we were taking men into combat. 01:04:20.495 --> 01:04:22.915 We're supposed to be in there as instructors, but you're in the war zone. 01:04:23.650 --> 01:04:30.580 I ended up being company commanders and I saw and experienced some pretty 01:04:30.580 --> 01:04:39.230 terrible things and when I came home, I was home within 24 hours, 48 hours. 01:04:39.770 --> 01:04:45.170 So you're going from a place where children are starving, where people 01:04:45.180 --> 01:04:46.989 can be killed for a bunch of bananas. 01:04:47.950 --> 01:04:53.640 Where a truck rolls over and 40 of your men are dead in one moment simply 01:04:53.640 --> 01:04:55.310 because the driver made a mistake. 01:04:56.360 --> 01:05:01.440 Where you've got yourself into very very dangerous situations out of bravado and 01:05:01.460 --> 01:05:05.200 stupidity and um, wished you hadn't. 01:05:06.479 --> 01:05:10.520 And then 24 hours later you're home and you're looking at a video and your 01:05:10.520 --> 01:05:16.950 wife's got a string outside the window with welcome home daddy on it and she's 01:05:16.950 --> 01:05:19.279 playing a video showing you Christmas. 01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:21.990 The Christmas you missed with the kids. 01:05:22.590 --> 01:05:26.790 Eating and wasting loads of food and toys lying all over the place. 01:05:28.040 --> 01:05:30.290 And you're not laughing and smiling. 01:05:31.250 --> 01:05:38.149 Um, you have this contrast of experiences of going from this place to this place, to 01:05:38.150 --> 01:05:40.689 a place where people are unhappy because. 01:05:41.120 --> 01:05:44.440 Their nanny took the day off and they're traumatized. 01:05:44.890 --> 01:05:50.050 Um, and the milkman didn't deliver the milk, so they're extremely upset. 01:05:50.610 --> 01:05:57.829 Um, and, um, you haven't had time to make that transition and it came out as anger. 01:05:58.745 --> 01:06:08.415 and disinterest and it was she recognized it straight away and I didn't but um our 01:06:08.415 --> 01:06:16.964 life led to a crisis situation and um fortunately I'd got counseling and I must 01:06:16.964 --> 01:06:22.805 have been the counselor's uh favorite um subject because he would start the 01:06:22.805 --> 01:06:28.705 clock and he got 45 minutes and I would talk like a runaway gun for 45 minutes 01:06:29.555 --> 01:06:33.875 and it's time up Robin you know let's have a quick chat and off you go And 01:06:33.875 --> 01:06:36.045 after 12 weeks, I realized, yeah, okay. 01:06:36.045 --> 01:06:41.955 The world shit, the bad things happen and, um, you can't change the 01:06:41.955 --> 01:06:43.575 world, but you can change yourself. 01:06:44.345 --> 01:06:49.804 And so I set about changing myself and rebuilding my, uh, family life and, um, 01:06:50.344 --> 01:06:56.685 and with Heather's help, um, succeeded and, um, as there's a lot of lessons, 01:06:57.285 --> 01:07:03.535 uh, to learn from that for lots of people who haven't necessarily been to war. 01:07:03.940 --> 01:07:08.970 But they've had some very upsetting experiences in their life, and they 01:07:08.970 --> 01:07:13.100 want somebody to blame, and sometimes there just isn't anybody to blame. 01:07:13.100 --> 01:07:17.890 I love that old American, um, t shirt that sold billions, uh, which 01:07:17.890 --> 01:07:21.330 was, uh, shit happens, and it does. 01:07:21.995 --> 01:07:27.265 And, um, and sometime in your lives, there will be some kind of tragedy, 01:07:27.265 --> 01:07:32.724 unfortunately, uh, even if it's the natural death of your parents and you, 01:07:33.055 --> 01:07:36.965 you have to accept that and acceptance is a word we don't use enough of. 01:07:37.335 --> 01:07:39.195 Sometimes you just, it just happens. 01:07:40.514 --> 01:07:43.995 Travis Bader: Did you come to that conclusion on your own, or was 01:07:43.995 --> 01:07:47.945 that something that the counselor was able to elicit out of you? 01:07:48.195 --> 01:07:51.095 Robin Horsfall: No, I think the counselor just let me burn it out. 01:07:51.935 --> 01:07:53.205 He let me talk it out. 01:07:53.565 --> 01:07:55.355 He let me figure it out on my own. 01:07:55.995 --> 01:07:59.025 All he was was a sounding board to let me go. 01:07:59.195 --> 01:08:03.105 He, I'm sure he got subjects where he needed to prompt something. 01:08:03.245 --> 01:08:04.655 He needed to light a fuse. 01:08:05.075 --> 01:08:07.675 With me, the fuse was burning when I walked through the door. 01:08:08.134 --> 01:08:12.625 Um, all he had to do was just let it burn and give it a place to go, you know? 01:08:12.625 --> 01:08:18.305 And, um, and, um, yeah, sometimes you've just got to unload. 01:08:19.135 --> 01:08:23.255 You just got to let it all go, uh, talk it all out with somebody who's not going 01:08:23.255 --> 01:08:29.455 to offer an opinion back, who's not got a vested interest in your, uh, opinion and, 01:08:29.455 --> 01:08:34.805 um, and, uh, and let it, and, and allow, allow you to, to release everything. 01:08:35.165 --> 01:08:38.475 And when it's all out there, you spilled your guts all over the floor. 01:08:38.655 --> 01:08:40.025 You can see what you've been eating. 01:08:42.155 --> 01:08:43.125 Travis Bader: I like that analogy. 01:08:43.714 --> 01:08:44.805 You know, I just made that 01:08:44.805 --> 01:08:44.955 Robin Horsfall: one 01:08:44.955 --> 01:08:45.225 Travis Bader: up. 01:08:45.805 --> 01:08:46.585 Oh, that's a good one. 01:08:46.595 --> 01:08:47.345 That's a good one. 01:08:47.865 --> 01:08:54.564 Um, you know, a lot of people get stuck in this, uh, process of, uh, basically 01:08:54.565 --> 01:08:58.139 wearing or identifying with whatever the issue is, that's affecting them. 01:08:58.490 --> 01:09:00.160 They're being afflicted with in the moment. 01:09:00.580 --> 01:09:06.170 And there's a lot of counselors and psychologists who, uh, aren't brave 01:09:06.170 --> 01:09:09.070 enough to, uh, help break that cycle. 01:09:09.199 --> 01:09:12.210 Rather, they will just have them go over and over and over again 01:09:12.210 --> 01:09:15.789 through it, because there's sort of a cathartic process in the, uh, in 01:09:15.789 --> 01:09:19.360 these meetings and, you know, there's money that comes from each one of these 01:09:19.360 --> 01:09:23.140 meetings and, yeah, um, I don't agree 01:09:23.140 --> 01:09:26.430 Robin Horsfall: with some of that because I think sometimes 01:09:26.430 --> 01:09:27.640 it's like picking a scab. 01:09:27.650 --> 01:09:27.670 Yeah. 01:09:28.325 --> 01:09:30.775 You just keep making it bleed you just keep making it bleed 01:09:30.835 --> 01:09:31.295 Travis Bader: right 01:09:32.015 --> 01:09:35.005 Robin Horsfall: yeah um which is different from what i'm talking about 01:09:35.045 --> 01:09:43.424 i just let me just let me um heal myself um because again it's back to 01:09:43.425 --> 01:09:46.955 that thing i said at the beginning you know only you can change yourself 01:09:47.164 --> 01:09:47.504 Travis Bader: it's 01:09:47.504 --> 01:09:50.745 Robin Horsfall: a bit like you know a guy who's an alcoholic or a drug addict. 01:09:51.255 --> 01:09:56.545 Um, you know, first of all, you have to accept that you are the problem and 01:09:56.545 --> 01:10:00.685 then you can deal with it, whether it's PTSD, whether it's alcohol, whether it's 01:10:00.685 --> 01:10:05.124 drugs, whether it's violence, whatever it is, you have to start with you. 01:10:05.125 --> 01:10:11.695 I mean, I do counsel some individuals privately, uh, without payment who are 01:10:11.805 --> 01:10:13.935 usually military veterans, but not always. 01:10:13.945 --> 01:10:17.835 Sometimes they're cancer victims because I've had cancer. 01:10:18.345 --> 01:10:22.885 And, um, and the first thing I say to them often is, well, what 01:10:22.885 --> 01:10:23.795 are you going to do about it? 01:10:25.135 --> 01:10:30.375 So you place the owner strictly on them straight away because people tend to 01:10:30.705 --> 01:10:36.335 wear a badge of victimhood and say, uh, you know, it's your job to help me. 01:10:36.435 --> 01:10:36.864 Okay. 01:10:36.864 --> 01:10:39.905 Well, yeah, maybe, uh, maybe it's my job to help you. 01:10:40.315 --> 01:10:43.615 Um, but providing you start by helping yourself. 01:10:43.670 --> 01:10:47.260 You start by taking responsibility. 01:10:47.570 --> 01:10:52.440 You start by getting a job, by getting out of bed in the morning, by doing what 01:10:52.440 --> 01:10:56.439 you need to do, and I'll help you then, but I'm not going to get you out of bed. 01:10:58.070 --> 01:10:58.190 Travis Bader: Yeah. 01:10:58.190 --> 01:11:00.429 There's nothing you can actually do to help somebody. 01:11:00.480 --> 01:11:04.070 You can lead them by example, but they have to help themselves. 01:11:04.280 --> 01:11:08.320 And once they, um, so what do you do now to deal with. 01:11:08.865 --> 01:11:12.695 When the demons come up, when things are getting difficult, what 01:11:12.695 --> 01:11:13.725 do you do now to deal with it? 01:11:14.605 --> 01:11:20.115 Robin Horsfall: Uh, uh, sometimes I, sometimes I, I, I have moments 01:11:20.115 --> 01:11:25.404 where I'm just watching TV or doing something innocuous and I'll have a cry. 01:11:26.565 --> 01:11:31.865 Um, not a sob, but just, you know, just a moment of welling up. 01:11:32.245 --> 01:11:33.115 It'll pass away. 01:11:33.745 --> 01:11:37.755 Um, but, uh, I don't have many demons. 01:11:37.835 --> 01:11:39.855 I think I've exercised most of them. 01:11:40.355 --> 01:11:42.195 Um, I have a great wife. 01:11:42.615 --> 01:11:45.305 Um, I have an amazing family. 01:11:45.305 --> 01:11:47.724 I'm the oldest surviving member of my family now. 01:11:48.165 --> 01:11:52.394 And, um, and consequently, um, there's always somebody that's 01:11:52.395 --> 01:11:53.674 got a problem that they want. 01:11:53.984 --> 01:11:59.025 They either want advice or they want money and I'm supposed 01:11:59.025 --> 01:12:00.265 to provide one of the two. 01:12:00.955 --> 01:12:04.985 Um, so that keeps me busy and it keeps me feeling useful as well. 01:12:05.545 --> 01:12:08.915 Um, I've got four generations in the house at the moment. 01:12:09.365 --> 01:12:13.865 Um, my daughter, my granddaughter and my granddaughter's son. 01:12:14.365 --> 01:12:18.085 Um, and they're going back next week and it's been fun having him here 01:12:18.085 --> 01:12:23.014 while she had the baby, but, um, uh, the house will seem empty, um, next 01:12:23.015 --> 01:12:26.475 Tuesday when they've gone, um, until. 01:12:26.810 --> 01:12:30.510 Until the next, um, until the next member of the family decides it's 01:12:30.510 --> 01:12:32.400 time to, to turn up at the house. 01:12:32.400 --> 01:12:36.850 And, um, I hope it's not too long in between because, you 01:12:36.850 --> 01:12:38.090 know, family is everything. 01:12:38.100 --> 01:12:42.250 When you get to a certain point in your life, uh, family is everything. 01:12:42.250 --> 01:12:46.729 And if you are not fortunate enough to have family, then compensate with friends. 01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:50.609 Travis Bader: At what point in your life did you truly realize that? 01:12:50.745 --> 01:12:50.755 I 01:12:51.145 --> 01:12:53.125 Robin Horsfall: don't think I realized it fully. 01:12:53.455 --> 01:13:00.935 I'm still learning and discovering, uh, new things about myself and about life. 01:13:01.325 --> 01:13:02.815 Um, so it's a process. 01:13:02.815 --> 01:13:07.435 Um, the Japanese used to say that you're not really a man 01:13:07.435 --> 01:13:09.174 until you get past the age of 40. 01:13:10.100 --> 01:13:14.350 Um, and you've got to get past the age of 40 before you understand what that means. 01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:16.420 Well, I'm 67 now. 01:13:16.750 --> 01:13:17.270 Travis Bader: Yes. 01:13:20.089 --> 01:13:24.700 Is there anything that we haven't talked about that we should talk about? 01:13:26.530 --> 01:13:29.590 Robin Horsfall: Well, I spent, um, I spent 30 years of my life 01:13:29.590 --> 01:13:31.190 teaching children, martial arts. 01:13:31.229 --> 01:13:36.010 I mentioned that earlier and the, the karate was just the 01:13:36.010 --> 01:13:37.940 catalyst that allowed me to teach. 01:13:39.080 --> 01:13:41.030 It was the teaching that was the joy. 01:13:41.300 --> 01:13:43.350 It was the imparting knowledge to others. 01:13:43.580 --> 01:13:44.470 That's the joy. 01:13:44.990 --> 01:13:48.450 And, um, I was taught to teach when I was a boy soldier, six 01:13:48.450 --> 01:13:50.170 months of teaching quotas. 01:13:50.590 --> 01:13:58.200 And, um, and I, it was vocational to me to stand in front of people, to impart 01:13:58.230 --> 01:14:02.190 knowledge, to help them, to benefit them, to train them with the kids. 01:14:02.290 --> 01:14:08.589 It was about, uh, teaching them to be strong and confident and, uh, and kind. 01:14:09.175 --> 01:14:13.075 And capable of defending themselves, which made them, um, able to 01:14:13.085 --> 01:14:16.655 stand up for their opinions in a much better way as they grew up. 01:14:17.435 --> 01:14:20.175 Um, we taught the children to teach. 01:14:21.315 --> 01:14:24.345 So rather than just teach them a skill, we taught them to teach the skill. 01:14:24.855 --> 01:14:30.285 Because if you teach, you understand the subject, you might know how to 01:14:30.285 --> 01:14:33.865 shoot a rifle, but can you teach somebody else how to shoot a rifle? 01:14:34.114 --> 01:14:38.735 If you can and take that responsibility, now you really understand the rifle. 01:14:39.155 --> 01:14:41.735 Um, it's the same in everything in life. 01:14:41.735 --> 01:14:44.684 And we would take four year olds, and when they'd been around six weeks or 01:14:44.684 --> 01:14:50.144 so, and a new kid arrived, we'd let the four year and six week kid show 01:14:50.214 --> 01:14:52.574 the new kid how to do certain things. 01:14:53.034 --> 01:14:53.874 So they'd pair off. 01:14:54.240 --> 01:14:56.860 Because you learn a hell of a lot more from your big brother than you 01:14:56.860 --> 01:14:58.140 ever did from your school teacher. 01:14:58.420 --> 01:14:58.720 Uh huh. 01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:04.169 And, um, so teaching is, uh, is, is, is a wonderful, is, is 01:15:04.169 --> 01:15:05.919 the best form of learning ever. 01:15:06.060 --> 01:15:09.769 I, I broke my neck when I was 54. 01:15:10.070 --> 01:15:12.230 I couldn't carry on teaching martial arts. 01:15:12.640 --> 01:15:17.900 And so I went to university as an undergraduate at the age of 56 01:15:18.410 --> 01:15:24.560 and did, uh, uh, And, um, English literature and graduated when I was 59. 01:15:25.450 --> 01:15:31.470 Um, I got cancer when I was 60, bladder cancer, and I had to have a 01:15:31.470 --> 01:15:35.160 major operation and they took away my bladder and prostate and lymph nodes. 01:15:35.650 --> 01:15:39.835 And, um, And there's even a sunny side to that because I've got 01:15:39.845 --> 01:15:42.805 this bag now and I never have to get up for a pee in the night 01:15:42.805 --> 01:15:45.344 Travis Bader: and 01:15:45.345 --> 01:15:47.845 Robin Horsfall: men of a certain age will know exactly what I'm talking about. 01:15:48.055 --> 01:15:51.244 Well, I've got this two liter bag that goes down the side of the bed and 01:15:51.244 --> 01:15:52.875 I, I never have to get up for a pee. 01:15:52.985 --> 01:15:55.085 I can stay in bed and watch TV in the morning. 01:15:55.835 --> 01:15:58.185 So there's even a good side to that. 01:15:58.445 --> 01:16:01.119 So, um. 01:16:01.550 --> 01:16:08.640 A lot of fighting scared the book you showed there is one of six and it goes 01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:10.510 up to about the age of forty five. 01:16:11.020 --> 01:16:17.130 But i'm sometimes thinking if i can find the time that i should write a sequel um 01:16:17.140 --> 01:16:22.660 for the forty five to sixty seven period which has a whole new range of stories 01:16:23.080 --> 01:16:27.489 but i've got so many things i want to do. 01:16:27.870 --> 01:16:29.200 Travis Bader: How did you break your neck. 01:16:30.325 --> 01:16:34.305 Robin Horsfall: I was training with my oldest son, Alex, um, karate training 01:16:34.305 --> 01:16:38.535 with my oldest son, Alex, and he was holding a big, heavy impact pad for me. 01:16:38.935 --> 01:16:39.864 And he's a big man. 01:16:40.504 --> 01:16:45.245 And, um, and I, I was showing him this, uh, very powerful punch. 01:16:46.224 --> 01:16:50.904 And, um, he, uh, I was looking at the class and what I should have done. 01:16:50.904 --> 01:16:51.495 I should have looked. 01:16:52.425 --> 01:16:55.005 At the target and then hit it so my neck was in the correct position, 01:16:55.625 --> 01:16:58.255 but the head was still here talking to the class when I hit this thing. 01:16:58.735 --> 01:17:04.135 And, uh, when you've developed, like, like professional boxing, when you've developed 01:17:04.135 --> 01:17:09.234 the punch to a degree and your body and all your applied physics of your, of your 01:17:09.234 --> 01:17:11.105 physique are in exactly the right place. 01:17:11.405 --> 01:17:14.815 You're developing about one and a half tons of impact into two 01:17:14.815 --> 01:17:16.305 square inches of two knuckles. 01:17:17.070 --> 01:17:22.500 And, um, everything's set right, all that impact, all that, um, kinetic 01:17:22.500 --> 01:17:26.770 energy is, is trans, is transmitted in, all that potential energy 01:17:26.770 --> 01:17:28.250 is transmitted into the target. 01:17:28.719 --> 01:17:32.560 Well, my neck was in the wrong position, and so some of it came out up here 01:17:32.780 --> 01:17:38.245 on C5 and broke one of the, broke one of the, um, Processes on my, on my 01:17:38.245 --> 01:17:43.765 vertebra, and I wasn't paralyzed, but, um, my neck beat is very, very weak. 01:17:43.765 --> 01:17:46.845 It's still very weak, and I, I lost some of the feeling in my left 01:17:46.845 --> 01:17:51.605 hand and, um, and, uh, so I had to take a new direction in life. 01:17:52.085 --> 01:17:55.475 There's no good sitting around going, oh, I was a great martial artist once upon 01:17:55.475 --> 01:17:57.575 a time and I had a thousand students. 01:17:57.575 --> 01:17:58.805 And, oh, poor me. 01:17:58.805 --> 01:18:00.755 I just, okay, what can I do? 01:18:01.145 --> 01:18:05.055 Well, I can't jump around and I can't leap out of buildings and I can't, you 01:18:05.055 --> 01:18:09.065 know, stand on one leg anymore because my balance goes so, but I can write 01:18:09.655 --> 01:18:10.024 Travis Bader: and I can 01:18:10.025 --> 01:18:15.185 Robin Horsfall: speak and so I'm, um, I do corporate talks and talks 01:18:15.185 --> 01:18:17.014 for colleges and talks for kids. 01:18:17.235 --> 01:18:21.725 About my personal experiences, about leadership, about overcoming adversity. 01:18:22.195 --> 01:18:24.845 Um, if anybody ever wants me in Canada, you know where I am 01:18:25.274 --> 01:18:25.814 Travis Bader: and, 01:18:25.814 --> 01:18:30.985 Robin Horsfall: uh, and, um, and, um, so I just, I, I still like being up there 01:18:30.995 --> 01:18:35.634 in front of everybody because teaching is essentially singing and dancing, you 01:18:35.644 --> 01:18:40.545 know, and, uh, your, your best teachers were the ones that entertained you and 01:18:40.545 --> 01:18:44.785 the subjects you loved best at school were the ones that came from the best teachers, 01:18:44.915 --> 01:18:46.445 not because they were the best subjects. 01:18:49.195 --> 01:18:52.175 Travis Bader: Through teaching, you've enabled the children to have a voice 01:18:52.595 --> 01:18:57.765 and you've basically become the mentor that you were looking for as a child. 01:18:58.060 --> 01:19:00.550 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 01:19:00.550 --> 01:19:03.760 That's, I think, I think you put the finger right on the button there. 01:19:04.150 --> 01:19:09.079 Um, that's, and I've never ever thought of that to be honest, but 01:19:09.089 --> 01:19:15.870 yeah, I think that's exactly what I am, the person that I didn't have. 01:19:17.015 --> 01:19:20.735 Travis Bader: Well, there's a, there's a lot more that I'd love to chat with you 01:19:20.735 --> 01:19:25.424 about, and I'm sure we'll chat more in the future, but, um, maybe that's a good 01:19:25.425 --> 01:19:28.215 place for us to, to wrap this podcast up. 01:19:28.324 --> 01:19:31.755 Um, unless there's any last words you'd like to say. 01:19:32.715 --> 01:19:33.155 Robin Horsfall: Yeah. 01:19:33.284 --> 01:19:34.514 Anybody wants to find me? 01:19:34.564 --> 01:19:34.874 RobinHorsfall. 01:19:35.515 --> 01:19:35.795 com. 01:19:36.025 --> 01:19:38.075 Let's do the advertising every little 01:19:38.085 --> 01:19:38.535 Travis Bader: counts. 01:19:39.595 --> 01:19:42.475 What I'm going to do is I'm going to put links in the bio and I'm going 01:19:42.475 --> 01:19:46.975 to put links in the description and, um, you know, like I say, 01:19:46.975 --> 01:19:48.724 I've got, I'll hold them up here. 01:19:48.964 --> 01:19:50.285 So I've got fighting scared. 01:19:50.345 --> 01:19:51.535 Couldn't put that one down. 01:19:51.595 --> 01:19:53.965 Uh, read that one in, in no time flat. 01:19:54.440 --> 01:19:59.120 We've got, uh, the words of the wise old paratrooper, more words 01:19:59.120 --> 01:20:03.110 of the wise old paratrooper, last words of the wise old paratrooper. 01:20:03.390 --> 01:20:05.270 And I've, uh, started going through them. 01:20:05.460 --> 01:20:12.320 They're easy reads that are full of very, some, a lot of humor, some great wisdom. 01:20:12.750 --> 01:20:15.920 And it's something that, uh, will take more than one read 01:20:15.930 --> 01:20:17.700 to actually properly absorb. 01:20:17.770 --> 01:20:21.060 And I guess there's a couple more books that, uh, uh, that I, 01:20:21.925 --> 01:20:23.995 Robin Horsfall: There's warrior poet soldier songs, which is an 01:20:23.995 --> 01:20:25.495 illustrated book of my poetry. 01:20:25.875 --> 01:20:26.105 Travis Bader: Okay. 01:20:26.245 --> 01:20:29.465 Robin Horsfall: Um, which is very academic and, um, illustrated 01:20:29.485 --> 01:20:30.635 and I'm very proud of that. 01:20:30.635 --> 01:20:32.504 But people don't buy poetry. 01:20:32.504 --> 01:20:34.014 It's a, so it's a labor of love. 01:20:34.565 --> 01:20:36.465 They quote it, but they, they don't buy it. 01:20:36.525 --> 01:20:40.165 And, um, my most recent one is Slava Ukraini, who no shares. 01:20:40.980 --> 01:20:45.170 Uh, which is about the first two years of the Russian Ukraine war. 01:20:45.640 --> 01:20:49.070 And yeah, and that's my, that's my most recent one. 01:20:49.070 --> 01:20:49.789 Yeah. 01:20:49.869 --> 01:20:53.670 Travis Bader: And you're pretty, you're pretty vocal and on a lot of world issues. 01:20:54.079 --> 01:20:55.700 When are you going to start your own podcast? 01:20:55.890 --> 01:20:58.119 Robin Horsfall: Yeah, I've, um, I've got all the gear. 01:20:58.220 --> 01:21:01.859 Um, I've had builders in my house since we moved in two years ago. 01:21:02.370 --> 01:21:07.605 Um, and, um, I've got my, Daughter in the, in the attic room at 01:21:07.605 --> 01:21:11.875 the moment, which is going to be the podcast broadcasting studio. 01:21:12.055 --> 01:21:12.445 Travis Bader: There it is. 01:21:12.615 --> 01:21:12.855 And, 01:21:13.135 --> 01:21:16.135 Robin Horsfall: um, it's, uh, it's another one of those things on the list. 01:21:17.115 --> 01:21:18.934 Travis Bader: You know, that was the one thing when I went through 01:21:18.934 --> 01:21:22.554 all of this stuff, I thought Robin's going to start his own podcast and 01:21:22.554 --> 01:21:24.135 it's going to be hugely successful. 01:21:24.325 --> 01:21:27.755 And I'm glad, I'm glad you're doing that. 01:21:27.995 --> 01:21:30.854 Robin, thank you so much for being on the Silvercore podcast. 01:21:30.855 --> 01:21:32.305 I really enjoyed this. 01:21:32.845 --> 01:21:33.545 Robin Horsfall: Thanks, Travis. 01:21:33.545 --> 01:21:34.494 You're a great interviewer.