Intro: Gina is unwell.
The Staircase series and
The Staircase dramatization, the impact of having to hide one's sexuality,
Let Me Run This By You: Boz booked a national commercial!
Jodi Sonenberg,
Mickie Paskal,
Tread documentary.
Interview: We talk to Sumie Takashima about the salvation that some people find in drama,
The Hangar Theatre,
Tisch, moms, hoarding, Chicago.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited):
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice
3 (12s):
The theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand
2 (15s):
It.
4 (16s):
Years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.
3 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?
1 (34s):
You know, what's going on? Oh, and you're in a new weight. You have a new thing in behind you.
2 (40s):
Yes, I am in my husband's office right now
1 (44s):
At his office away from the house
2 (47s):
I am.
1 (50s):
Oh my God. I bet. Do you want to tell everybody what's happening?
2 (55s):
Everybody's COVID in my house. Do you have
1 (57s):
COVID
2 (58s):
Well, I'm not testing positive for it, but I have symptoms. And when I tell you I didn't sleep one Wayne class night. I mean, like, I didn't, I, this is a level of tired that I haven't felt since I had a newborn baby. I, I, I think I took, I think I took one daytime cough medicine last night. Yeah. Well it said day or night.
1 (1m 24s):
There's usually a different,
2 (1m 26s):
Nobody had said day or night, like, but
1 (1m 31s):
Oh wait, that doesn't make any sense. Okay. Okay. Cause usually when they do that beans, they have
2 (1m 37s):
To keep you a little away.
1 (1m 38s):
They have two sets of pills. Is it, was it syrup or pills?
2 (1m 42s):
It was syrup. It was like a deli, right? Yeah.
1 (1m 47s):
No. They had some kind of crack cocaine in there.
2 (1m 50s):
Real surprise.
1 (1m 51s):
Was it that your family was keeping you up? It was that,
2 (1m 55s):
No, it was that. And I didn't cough, which was great, but I didn't sleep like not at all, but that's okay. Because I watched the staircase, the news,
1 (2m 8s):
Toni Collette. Yes. Yes. I think it's great. And it's way more interesting than the actual story. So I don't know, but like I've seen 40 million documentaries on the staircase and this one is creepier and more compelling than any of the dikes. I mean, she's just so good. And like,
2 (2m 32s):
She is so
1 (2m 33s):
Good. And
2 (2m 35s):
Tell me what you think about the whole story itself. Like where do you fall on the line of whether he was guilty or not?
1 (2m 42s):
You know, here's the thing before I saw this version, I for sure. Thought he was guilty for sure. And now I don't know. I don't know. I am. I am completely. I w I don't know. What do you think?
2 (2m 59s):
Well, it's, it's, it's the most, I don't have a word for it, but it's the most of this thing I'm about to describe it's the most. Oh, I definitely think it was not him. Oh, I definitely think it was him. Oh, I definitely think it was not
1 (3m 15s):
Because
2 (3m 15s):
Every little twist and turn that comes up, it's like really? I think it is. I think the reason it is so vexing and perplexing is because it is a one in one Google Plex chance that the same person would be there for altar. I really don't think he killed her,
1 (3m 41s):
But it's like, yeah, the lady in Europe and all that shit, it's like, wait a minute. He's so fucking unlucky. Or he's like evil. And he just draws evil near him.
2 (3m 54s):
I got to say, I mean, not like I know, but I don't get evil vibes from him. I really don't. I think he's like a nice guy.
1 (4m 2s):
And if you watch interviews of the guy, like, you know, he had some weirdness, but here's the thing. You fucking interview my ass after something like, you're gonna be like, lock her up. She's fucking bonkers. So like, you know what I mean? Like if they interviewed me and after something bad happened, like some God forbid something happened to miles, right. And they're interviewing me and they listened. They go back and listen to our fucking podcast. They're going to be like,
2 (4m 30s):
Oh, this is great. This is exactly. I totally wanted to ask you that we're
1 (4m 34s):
Going to jail. We're going to jail.
2 (4m 37s):
If you, for whatever reason, committed a heinous crime today. And we were watching the docu-series about you. What would be the things that the audience would be going to see? She totally did it. Like, what would be these,
1 (4m 50s):
The, the, the, well, I've just seen, like how I evaded the law with my student loans. And I was like, I have a lawyer, how we talk about how, like, basically you should get away with basically anything you can get away with because we're an end-stage capitalism. They're like, oh, she did it the way I talked shit about like my family. They're probably like, oh yeah, like she was, she had a traumatized childhood. So she's like getting re oh my God. It just never
2 (5m 17s):
Snap. She
1 (5m 18s):
Snapped. She couldn't take it.
2 (5m 21s):
Well, here's what people would say about me. Well, she was never very friendly. She was really pretty cold. Actually had people in my town would be like, I knew it. I knew there was something about her that I just didn't like,
1 (5m 38s):
That's the kind of, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because you have this way of coming off like that, even though it's not, it is not, it is not, I don't see it like that now. But when you talk about it, I'm like, oh yeah, I could kind of see. Yeah. But not really. I don't know.
2 (5m 54s):
It's that old thing of, you know, every, I used to always have the experience that people would say to me when I first met you, I thought you were a real bitch, but now, you know, now
1 (6m 4s):
Got it all. But I think I met you when you were really young.
2 (6m 7s):
We were really young and, and it just takes me a while to, to warm up to people. But anyway, yeah. Check it out. People, if you haven't seen the staircase series, I mean, I watched the documentary too, but the series is,
1 (6m 21s):
It's much more compelling and it's also just like art. It's like the story itself, the documentary is kind of boring. You're like, okay. And then this guy in his Vietnam history. Right. And that weirdness
2 (6m 33s):
Purple heart
1 (6m 34s):
Like that, maybe that, yeah. That's when I was like, oh, he's, nobody's just kind of a weird ego. He is, he's got us low self-esteem. He picks wives that are like, well, the second one, especially the high powered in some way,
2 (6m 49s):
I think too, we underestimate, especially now the impact of having to hide your sexual identity, that it I'll just say people who haven't done terrible things and have had to hide their sexual identity, deserve a purple heart because the aggression and the, and the
1 (7m 12s):
Self-loathing and the frustration and the, and the, it must feel torturous. Just torture us
2 (7m 19s):
Heartbreaks. Whenever I think about like the person, who's just like this person who lived a hundred years ago and they were stoned to death, or they, or they just lived a life of total misery because they had to completely lie about themselves
1 (7m 32s):
All the time and to themselves, to other people. Yeah, I, yeah. Yeah. I think that, yeah, his, his and I also, the older I get, like the more I know why people lie about having brave or, or things it's because they want that it's because look, they, they, they, they feel that they have done that in some way. Probably.
2 (7m 56s):
I want a purple heart for having three kids. I, even though nobody made me do it right. It was,
1 (8m 3s):
It doesn't matter. It's like we, we, being a human is hard and I understand the wanting to, to get something for the, for the suffering or to be recognized and seen for the hardships in our life. Like, I get that a hundred fucking percent.
2 (8m 21s):
That's all we want in life. We just want to be seen and recognized for the, or the challenges that we've overcome. And the,
1 (8m 34s):
Let me run this by. Yeah. I can totally say that I booked a national, I won't say what the company is, but I booked a national commercial, which is amazing and also hilarious. And I'm here to say, like I told my class, my class of two, my MFA students, I'm teaching them pilot writing and through Patrice. And I sent like, look, if I, as a 46 year old, half Latina plus size lady can book two national commercials. Like anything's possible. Like anything is possible. Cause they're, you know,
2 (9m 14s):
Because just as recently, as last week were like acting as for the birds.
1 (9m 19s):
Well, the thing is, yeah, right. And I still, that still stands true. However, what I love about this, and this is why I think I love commercials because there's in sag commercials. Usually there's no lines, right? Like it's all improv or MOS now, whatever it's called, like emotion over sound, people call it different things. I don't know. But anyway, no, no lines to memorize, which is great for my fears slash menopause brain fog. It's all literally all about your look and vibe. Like, I don't know. There's like, no people are gonna be like, she's a bitch, but like there's no real talent involved.
1 (9m 59s):
What it is is your personality. It's like, do you have a personality that can work on with these people? So I knew that I had nailed it because, and I was talking to therapy yesterday. Like, it doesn't always line up. Like usually if I'm lucky, this is how it goes. I go in, I do my best. I'm petrified. That comes across a little bit. Sometimes I eat by in the callback, but don't usually book. Right. I never have had the experience to be quite honest of like nailing it and feeling great about that and not booking it.
1 (10m 39s):
I usually book it when I feel like that. It's just so rare for me to feel like that. So I was like, I wonder if I felt like that all the time, if I would just book shit, I don't know how the universe works. I don't know, but I can't. Do
2 (10m 51s):
You do know? Cause you know that because you got all on this other vibe that you were not trying to get on for a while. That's why things are coalesced.
1 (10m 59s):
That's so true. Yeah. That's so true. But like, I, I don't, I don't have like evidence to show that like, you can feel really shitty about your audition and still book it every time. Because every time I feel really shitty, I do really shit. Like if I don't book it, so
2 (11m 15s):
You're aware I'm like
1 (11m 17s):
Hyper aware, but I knew it was a good sign when I got there and the casting director was there. And she, my experience of casting in LA is that they are, it's not that they're jerks, but they have an air about them. The casting directors, not, not the actors necessarily, but like, they're usually like 50 year old blonde ladies or blonde dudes that are like in their fifties, that really are tired of this. And I don't blame them. Like, they're tired of the shit and I get it, but this woman, and I will just say her name. Cause she's amazing. Her name is Jody Sonnenberg reminded me almost to the T of like a slight, slightly younger version of Mickey Paskal from Chicago casting.
1 (12m 3s):
And I adore Mickey and I kind of had the same vibe and I was like, and she was like, oh, I'm Jody. I was like, oh, you're so bad. You know, she was lovely. And I thought that's a good sign. Right. And then I, I didn't when I walked into the room, I just was completely relaxed. Like completely, it did not cross my mind to get nervous because I literally, these things are such a shot in the dark, like such a long shot that it's sort of like with like with like under 10 television rules, I, for some reason it feels like it's more possible so that I get more scared. Right.
1 (12m 43s):
There's for like a national commercial. You're like, this is like, there's like 500 Pete know like no way. So what, so then of course the pressure's off for me anyway. Some people might that might do a different trigger. So I walk in the room and there's of course like always it's hilarious. Like there's one director and then there's 10 advertising people, right? Like or eight advertising people. I don't know what they do. They were fine. They were lovely. Everyone was lovely and hilarious. And we laughed and we had fun. And then I, then I left and I said to miles, like, I can honestly say like I slaved that and it has nothing to do with acting.
2 (13m 23s):
It was just all about your, how you are in the room.
1 (13m 26s):
It's not about the, and I think that that's so true. Like it's not about the fucking acting now. People are probably like, oh my God, shut up. Because you know, we go to school for it. We do. But for this particular thing, it is literally about the vibe in the room with the director. Do you vibe with the people in the room and also are you willing to be loosey goosey? Like, can you just go with the flow whatever's happening? And, and cause everything is, you know, it's just like a very weird situation in terms of, you know, they're casting a lot of people. So there's, this is a huge commercial and that, I think there's like 10 rules, right? It's like a campaign.
1 (14m 6s):
It might be a back to school situation. I don't know what it is, but so they're all tired. Everyone is like, you know, they were all English. They were from Britain. You know, I, I don't know. We don't have, I guess we don't have people here. I don't know what's happening, but everyone came from London apparently to do this. And so that was, you know, like the team. And so I was like, okay, anyway, a blast. And so then I leave and I'm like, you know, that was so fun that it was legit. If I had taken a lie detector test beans and they had said like, do you care? Like, are you going to be devastated if you don't book this? I would've said no, because I really felt like I did my job for the first time in like two years. So yeah.
2 (14m 44s):
That's but it's just so hard to get to the place of relaxation, but what I think is, oh wait,
1 (14m 52s):
She has, okay, I'll talk. And then you can, so you'll remember. I know how this goes down the line. You remember? And then just interrupt me when you remember. So, okay. So I leave, I call my agent I, who I adore Cassie. She's my commercial agent. And she loves me. Look, they have not given up on me. This I have not booked anything since I moved here, since I signed with them, I signed with them in 2021 at the beginning, I think of 20, 21 or somewhere around there, maybe 20, no, 20, 20, 20, 20. And I have not looked a God damn thing. So I call Cassie who I saw from assistant to she's moved your way up and all that time. And I called her and left her a voicemail. And then she wrote me back and said, your voicemail, your, I loved your voicemail.
1 (15m 36s):
And then she wrote me back and said, your feeling was right. You're on check avail for the other, for the, well, we'll cut it up, whatever. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. And then I just got to think saying, congratulations, you booked it. And I was like, like,
2 (15m 50s):
Well, I remember the thing I was going to say. I bet you the apropos of what you were saying about how it's not about the acting. I bet you, the number one thing that a person who's casting a commercial does not want to see on somebody's resume is that they went to theater school. Right. Because we're going to be in especially recent grads, like taking it very seriously and not just working on the part of you have just what you said, having the vibe being in the room. I told my son that you got this, he was excited for you. And he, because he's, you know, like we all are preoccupied with money. He's like, how much does she going to make? And I told him what you thought you thought it was.
2 (16m 32s):
And he goes, you know what, that's great. But honestly, he did one commercial. He did like a JCPS.
1 (16m 43s):
I saw it. It's not as real maybe or something.
2 (16m 46s):
I would rather work for five weeks for, you know, whatever, like a quarter of that, that, because he hated filming it, the commercial, they were just all dancing.
1 (17m 3s):
And so
2 (17m 3s):
They listened to the same song for eight hours and he's a musician. He was really going crazy by the end. He was really like, I can't believe we have to listen to the song again. So
1 (17m 15s):
That's hilarious. Like
2 (17m 17s):
We say, this is, you know, the reason that these things are well paid is because you spent two years back,
1 (17m 27s):
It's pay. I, and I never, I, yeah. They're paying you for all the millions of auditions, one millions, all the whatevers, the magicians, tens of auditions. You've done that. You've never heard anything. And rightly so, like most of them, like most of them, I haven't done what, like I, in the callback, my last callback before this was for something I can't even, oh, like a lot of commercial and I did not, I did not nail it. I, and also it was my first one back in person and like Gina, they, no one was in the room. They were all in, in a sound overhead and they hit the camera, they hit the screen. So I didn't know who was, it was the most bizarre thing.
1 (18m 9s):
And then they were giving me direction and I, I just screwed it up. There was not good. And I, and I watched that commercial, the lotto commercial and it, and it was really funny and they did a great job, but it wasn't a national, so I feel better. I mean, I could have done whatever the point is.
2 (18m 23s):
What if you became this brand spokesperson? Like isn't that the holy grail?
1 (18m 29s):
Yeah. Yeah. I would do it. Great. Make me the blank, the blank person.
2 (18m 34s):
A black person. Yeah. Well, congratulations. That is really, really cool.
1 (18m 38s):
Did you, you didn't watch Trent, did you tread the documentary about Marvin?
2 (18m 45s):
I totally went off my radar screen. I forgot it.
1 (18m 49s):
So we'll talk about it next time, but suffice, everyone watched this. It's not actually that good, but I want to know if I'm the only lunatic that really identifies with Marvin and in this documentary on Netflix called tread TRCA D and tell me if I'm a lunatic, because I left feeling, I stopped watching it feeling like I really relate to Marvin and I think he did the right thing. He also, no, but he fucking bulldozed the town.
2 (19m 17s):
Oh, right, right, right, right, right.
1 (19m 19s):
So we'll talk, we can talk about it at a later time, but everyone just please watch tread. And, and can you like send us an email or something and let me know if you identify with mark or the town, because I'm on team mark all the way. I fucking wanted him to pull up
2 (19m 36s):
Great name. I mean, honestly, it's a really good day. Okay, cool.
1 (19m 41s):
Yeah.
2 (19m 42s):
That's something I want to run by you is, oh, no. Just to say, I recently read or I'm no, I'm in the middle of reading. BJ Novak spoke of stories that it came out a while
1 (19m 57s):
Ago. I'd never read it. Okay. Tell
2 (19m 59s):
I never read it. I, I don't know why it just didn't call to me, but it's a book of stories and you know, this may not be a new thing. It may not be something he came up with, but it was the first time I'd really read their fictional stories. It's not essays, it's not memoir. I mean, some of it might've been true, but they're fictional stories and he they're very good. And some of them are a paragraph long and some of them are 10 pages long. And I realized, I have a notes thing with like a hundred little bits of ideas.
2 (20m 39s):
And I kind of think that that's what he had with these stories. He had like a, a premise that sounded, or like just a, kind of a joke element that he wanted. And he just turned it into a story. So it has been very inspiring for me. And I'm like really going to try to write a book of stories.
1 (20m 59s):
I think you should. And I think I've always thought you should put, be published. Like, I always think like you should publish your stuff. It reads really well on the page. And like, I just am all for it. And then, and yeah.
2 (21m 12s):
Yeah. My obstacle will be of course, believing in myself, you know, but, but I'm like ready to accept that challenge. I think I've done
1 (21m 23s):
Enough work, dude, enough
2 (21m 24s):
Work on like, just trying to get myself through the basics.
1 (21m 30s):
Believe me. I, that leads me to what I wanted to ask you. And I talked a little bit about this with you on the phone, but okay. So I'm inviting alumni to the LA meet and greet Fucking shit. Are the reactions. Everyone is traumatized by the school. Some more than others. I won't mention names, but what I will say is you want to, you want to get a mixed bag, invite alumni from theater school to come to a theater school, meet and greet in LA whole. It ranges from basically, fuck you leave me alone. I wish that place was burned to the ground to, oh my God.
1 (22m 14s):
I am so excited. I can't wait to be there. I'm going to go. I can't wait. Can I bring my family too? Yeah. Which is great. I said, sure, what is it a bar, but okay. And it was like little kids. I don't know. I said, well, do whatever to I'm on like the, you know, the fans, the like the working, working people are all shooting things like, you know, I will mention, cause they're lovely. John Hooga knocker. And Dave <inaudible> really wanted to come with their both Nancy and shooting their things in different parts. One's in Australia, one's in over here. So they, but they wanted to come in and are going to send videos to, for the students to watch like inspirational or jobs that he would.
1 (22m 54s):
So. Okay. That's great. And to people that just start like, no, thanks pass.
2 (23m 3s):
I want to acknowledge here. One is you did wow. An incredible amount of work. And like, there is so much value add to what you've done. I hope the school recognizes that. And, and the other is, yeah, it brings up all of the things. It brings up all of the emotions. It brings up all of the traumas. This is why people struggle about whether or not they're going to go to their high school reunion.
1 (23m 29s):
Right. Or whether or not there, I was going to say also to come on the show, our show. It's like, they're like, if you haven't done the healing work and believe me, it's not easy work. And I actually don't do a lot of work. Maybe like humans until I'm forced to, maybe we all do that until it's like, I cannot function unless I move through something. So I get it. But if we have not done the work of like healing something, it does, it would be like a fucking nightmare. Like you'd rather fucking get a staph infection, then go to the fucking bar and see the theater school people. Yeah.
2 (24m 6s):
If I were still a therapist, I'd be, I'd say, no, I don't. I don't think I've. I just don't like,
1 (24m 15s):
Like excited except for, I w I may see people I don't want to see and you know who that is. And so it's like, ah, but I'm willing to do it. I'm ringing Gisa. She didn't go to the theater school, but she went to DePaul and she's like, I want to go, she's excited to get the fuck out of the house. And so she's like, I'm coming. I'm like, great. The more the merrier. So it's going to be like this, Joe is coming, Joe was a seal. So we're just going to go. And I'm going to say, I'm doing it for the kids. Like literally do it for the kids. They're very excited. And I don't know who will show up, but I will be there. And also like, I am just so grateful that I, I, even if it's uncomfortable to see certain people, like if, if, if, you know, I don't think he'll come.
1 (24m 56s):
But of course that, that email for John C. Riley, that I keep using to try to get them to be on our show. I also, and then is through his reps. I also sent the invite. Like if he shows that will be weird, but it'll be a funny story. So what I'm saying is I'm really glad that we did this podcast because I, as, as sort of uncomfortable as I would be, I'm still going to be uncomfortable like that, but it's not going to be trauma. I don't think it's going to be as like trauma inducing and as triggering as if I had never done any other work.
2 (25m 31s):
Yeah. And, you know, I think when we talk about doing the work, I think it can sound really. Hm. Like don't like to too much, but actually I'm realizing as you're talking that maybe even the biggest part of the work is deciding you want to do it. Like that's the, maybe the hardest part. And then just being in control of it, like being the person, who's guiding it as, because that's what happens. That's what we're avoiding. When we're avoiding traumatic responses was we're avoiding the things that we can't control just coming at us. And then all we can do is be defensive as opposed to, you know, I'm going to go towards it so that I can have some control over, you know, what the first moments of it are like.
2 (26m 17s):
So for people who are change, curious healing, think, think about that. Think about how the hardest part of this is really deciding that you want to face it and everything after that is like, oh, no, that was today
7 (26m 43s):
On the podcast. We are talking to Sunni a talk Ashima to me was a theater studies person at the theater school. And at Tisch before taking a bunch of unexpected twists and turns in her life. So please enjoy our conversation will assume the HR Kashima
2 (27m 7s):
Living in New York is constantly bombarded with visual and stimulation, whether you like it or not in the hospital. So I heard 24 hour siren, Sumi tech, Ashima. Congratulations. You survived theater school. In which program were you in? At the theater school?
9 (27m 32s):
I was in the production program. Okay. I'm a backstage person. Okay.
2 (27m 37s):
Okay. Did you do that? Did you want to do that all through high school? Or when did you first know you wanted to do that?
9 (27m 43s):
I did. I was my middle school. Did a musical every spring. They used the orchestra, the middle school orchestra as a pit orchestra. And, oh, it was amazing.
1 (27m 57s):
I
9 (27m 58s):
Thought, I thought this was how it was done. And then with my own kids, I realized I was very lucky and I did. I signed up for all of the crews that I could possibly do. I did makeup, I did costumes. I helped backstage whatever I could do. And then I volunteered at the hangar theater over the summer and I grew up in Ethica, New York. So I was at the hangar theater. Okay.
2 (28m 22s):
Yeah. Do you know Johanna, she talked about the hanger on,
9 (28m 28s):
I have to say I'm very bad remembering any names.
1 (28m 33s):
So we're, we, we, we, we had a whole, I mean, if you've listened at all to our show, a large part of us is just like, wait, what happened with who? Wait. And then when I see people's faces, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember this human. Like,
9 (28m 48s):
Yeah.
1 (28m 49s):
Anyway. Okay. So the hanger, so you,
9 (28m 51s):
So I fell in love. That was it. I was just, I couldn't believe it. It was amazing every night was this, you were just transformed into this. You were in this other world. And I thought that I couldn't imagine life not doing this for the rest of my life.
1 (29m 9s):
What do you think? What do you attribute that to? Like, what, where did that love come from? Where your, was your family a big arts family or was it, how did that happen?
9 (29m 19s):
My, my, my mom's side was a big arts family, like ballet and singing. And my mom was a visual artist. She went to NYU for, for art. So she was a fine art major, but she also had a lot of issues that made being at home, not where I wanted to ever be.
1 (29m 44s):
Understood.
9 (29m 44s):
So I signed up for every activity I, anything I could do in the school. I did, you know, if it didn't cost extra money, I didn't need a ride. And theater took it to a whole other level because it brought the, brought me to another world. It didn't matter. You know, it was just, I was really good backstage and I loved it. And I loved the show every night and the different energy that every show brought with the audience. And I thought, well, this, it doesn't matter. What's at home. I have this.
2 (30m 20s):
This is the, I've always wondered this about people who love to be backstage, but they don't like to be on stage. Is it this? How does it compare the thrill of being backstage versus in the, in the audience? If you're not performing, you know, not, not onstage.
9 (30m 38s):
Oh, I'm terrible in the audience.
1 (30m 40s):
Oh. Why say why you get nervous? Are you
9 (30m 43s):
No. In the odd, if I'm in the audience, I'm thinking about what they're doing backstage. I'm wondering if somebody messed something up
1 (30m 52s):
Or
9 (30m 53s):
I I'm thinking about the mechanics of how it's running smoothly or if it transitions too fast or I can't. Yeah. No, my kids hate it. If I go to any of their, my daughter is natural actress and you, we thought drama classes would help her to control the inner drama.
1 (31m 15s):
No, probably brought it out more. Yeah. Yeah. I brought it out more. Yeah. Well,
2 (31m 19s):
Wouldn't it be fair to say that? Well, how you just described the experience made me think, oh, you like to see how things are made.
9 (31m 29s):
I like to see how things are made. I, I like to try and improve upon them.
1 (31m 34s):
You're like an engineer, an engineer, like in your brain right now.
2 (31m 40s):
Tell us about the process of deciding, okay, this is, I'm going to study this for college. And then what it was like in the, in the program, if it, if it was what you expected it to be,
9 (31m 52s):
It was great. I actually, in retrospect, of course, because that's how we see everything when we're smarter. I should've stayed at DePaul because it was a really great program. I wanted to get out of Africa. I went to visit Chicago a couple of times and I loved the big city, but it wasn't too big. And the program was actually really amazing.
1 (32m 19s):
You didn't stay, you left. I feel like you were there you time. No. Okay.
9 (32m 25s):
You kept hearing. I transferred to Tish.
1 (32m 29s):
Oh, this is coming back to my
9 (32m 31s):
Second year. Yeah. I transferred to Tish and I just thought that because when I was in high school, I intimidated by the NYU essay. So I did not apply. And I had this moment and one of my, you know, all nighters in Chicago where I said, you know what, I'm going to write that essay. And I sat down and I wrote it in like 20 minutes. Thank goodness. They hadn't changed the question. And then I called my mom of all people who I never called my mom. And I woke her up in the middle of the night so I could read her my essay.
1 (33m 13s):
It sounds like your mom was a complicated lady.
9 (33m 16s):
She was, she always supported me and my younger sister, 110%, always in whatever we wanted to do, but she didn't want us to leave the house.
1 (33m 29s):
She was like that.
9 (33m 31s):
So
1 (33m 33s):
She was afraid or
9 (33m 35s):
She was afraid. She was afraid. And you know, she had lived in New York city and I was actually just cleaning out the house recently. And I found some really nice black and white prints that she had taken when she was a student. And they were of like, there was, I found a picture of MacDougal street down the block from the player's theater, where I was an assistant stage manager on a show there. And it was a picture of the cafe where I used to get my coffee before going
1 (34m 7s):
To the theater.
9 (34m 10s):
And I couldn't believe it. And I'm like, why didn't we ever talk about this? So yeah, it was, she was very supportive. Yes. But she didn't something happen along the way where she just, you know, became consumed by all of the bad things that could happen in the
1 (34m 28s):
World. She got very afraid. It was
9 (34m 30s):
Just, and that was it.
1 (34m 33s):
She stayed in the house.
9 (34m 35s):
She mostly stayed in the house and that was hard because then I just mostly wanted to get out of the house.
2 (34m 41s):
Did you absorb any of her fears?
9 (34m 49s):
You know, I talk to my kids really realistically and I say, listen, there's some really bad things out there and bad people. And I don't want you to be afraid to try new things or go new places. I just want you to be aware and observant and just, you know,
1 (35m 13s):
Right.
9 (35m 13s):
Make good choices.
1 (35m 15s):
Yeah.
9 (35m 16s):
That's, that's all we can do because we would never do anything. We would never do anything. We would never go
1 (35m 25s):
Anywhere. That's not a life. Right.
2 (35m 27s):
But so, but DePaul, wasn't cutting it for you. What, what was not working?
9 (35m 32s):
It was the city.
1 (35m 33s):
Oh, you? Oh,
9 (35m 34s):
It was really, it was Chicago. I had, I don't know. It wasn't, it wasn't my, it just, I didn't feel comfortable
1 (35m 49s):
Really. Was it like, I
9 (35m 51s):
Really wanted to go to the New York city and it was, there was like a small town feeling about Chicago and that might've been because of the theater school.
1 (36m 2s):
Yeah. I mean, I think that going back, like looking back at Chicago now, I'm like, oh yeah. And, and I don't, it does, it feels really the theater school in general. Like the whole idea and Lincoln park feels like a small suburb kind of thing that happens there. And Lincoln park is also like, not indicative of the rest of the city at all, in some ways,
2 (36m 27s):
Because it's so segregated
1 (36m 28s):
And white it's so rich it's so, and that's where we were. And also you're from the east coast. Right. So you, New York is the place to be like that. I get it, but that's pretty brave. So you just were like, I'm outta here or how did that?
9 (36m 45s):
Yeah, it was, it was scary, but everything we do, that's scary makes us stronger. And it's one less thing we're scared of. And it took me on a different journey because as soon as I got to Tisch, I realized I hadn't really thought it through and I didn't have the money. I hadn't worked out the tuition
1 (37m 7s):
Shit.
9 (37m 9s):
Yeah. So I didn't stay at Tisch. My dad was pretty upset. He, he asked why I didn't call him that he would have just paid the tuition.
1 (37m 20s):
Oh, you left? Okay. We wait, we got it back up here.
9 (37m 24s):
Yeah. I left like, within that first year at Tisch, I left and I started, I was waitressing and a couple of bars and I was, you know, looking for a retail job and it took me on a whole other, and I was doing like free theater, any kind of theater gigs I could get just to keep my resume fresh and current all the time and to make those connections. And yeah, it was a whole, then there was like a whole other life started
1 (37m 50s):
Shit. So did you, you didn't when you left DePaul, like, did you like the classes at DePaul and H and the city wasn't around was the whole thing just lame to you?
9 (37m 60s):
No, I really loved the classes and I still, I still have my HDL Nope.
1 (38m 6s):
HDL. We need to
2 (38m 9s):
Send them to us. I would love to look at them,
9 (38m 12s):
Loved that class. It was like the best history class ever. What a great way to learn about history, actually
2 (38m 20s):
Point what a great point I did take advantage of it. I did not have that positive confirmation then, but the, actually that's a really excellent point because that's the only way I ever learned anything by history anyway, is through narrative through, through story. Okay. So, but what was the goal when you were still in the schools? What was the goal to develop a skill set and so that you were employable or were you not necessarily sure that that's what you were going to do for your career?
9 (38m 53s):
I wanted to spend, I wanted to work in theater. That was my, what I wanted to do, but I wasn't sure what I wanted to do if I, you know, and towards the end of DePaul, I kind of got into stage managing and I thought, oh, I really like this because you know, you're involved in all facets of the show from the beginning to the end. And so if something happens, you know, where it came from and you know where it's going and you could, it's better. It's easier to fix it that way. Or, you know, I
1 (39m 29s):
Feel
9 (39m 29s):
Like, so I, yeah, I started stage managing.
1 (39m 32s):
I have this thing about stage managing where all the stage managers that I've worked with have this thing in common, which is the ability to get shit done and also save the day. But aren't usually egomaniacs. Do you relate to that? Like, like they're like superheroes without needing people to think they're superheroes and being glamorous.
9 (39m 58s):
I don't want any attention. I think that's, you know, I would prefer not to be on this stage. I like being backstage. You don't need to thank me for anything. Just do your
1 (40m 8s):
Job,
9 (40m 9s):
Do your job. And I'm happy if I can make things better.
2 (40m 15s):
So, but when you left Tish and you left for financial reasons, you were just working, but then how did you get back into a groove of whatever you were going to do next in your life?
9 (40m 27s):
Well, I, I had a day job. I became one of those day job people. So I worked part-time in retail. I worked weekends at a bar and then everything would stop if I got a gig. So if it was costumes or set or they needed a stage manager, it didn't matter if it was paid or not. Cause I had my day job, I would take the work. So I was, I was working on small shows all the time. And then I started working at urban Outfitters where as a manager, I had paid vacation and I was, you know, 19 or 20 years old, this is great.
9 (41m 12s):
So I started backpacking in central America and that was like a whole other segment. So I would work on shows in between my two paid vacations each year. And then I would go on these like seven, 10 day excursions getting off the plane and saying, okay, well where am I going to go first? And so that was, you know,
1 (41m 39s):
No, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. Here's my thing. Like, I, it's so interesting that you had a ma where your parents divorced or together. Yes. Okay. So that's cause my first question was like, you didn't call your dad when you, he was like, why didn't you call me? So there's clearly like some kind of thing there where you didn't feel like you could call your dad and be like, Hey, can you hook me up with some money for NYU? Why didn't you do that?
9 (42m 2s):
I didn't want to, I didn't want to be, my mom was always calling my dad. I didn't want to call my dad for money. I wanted to be self-sufficient, you know, I, I visited schools on my own. I filled out my financial aid applications on my own. You know, I went to DePaul on a merit scholarship. And so I, I, I honestly, I, I didn't occur to me to call and say, Hey daddy, can I have a 10 grand
2 (42m 37s):
You're at this really interesting mix of like a risk taker and very pragmatic because people who are stage managers have to be extremely practical and pragmatic. And I maybe it's maybe it's congruous that there's risk takers, but I don't feel like at the stage managers I've met necessarily that, that bill. So I mean, how does, is that, am I right? Is that a dichotomy or no?
9 (43m 6s):
Well, you know, as a stage manager, I would say you have to be really good at improv. Yeah. But you can't be good at the improv if you don't have a really sound foundation. So if you don't know all the components and you're not comfortable with them and you don't fully understand what the end goal is, it's really hard to, to take risks in the middle. You need to, you know, like sometimes you need to have to fix something and the answer is not always handed to you, so you have to improvise and you have to be what, you know, that's a risk.
1 (43m 43s):
Okay. So to me, I just heard a story. What would you do in this situation about stage managers, where the stage manager in London maybe had to go on? Did you hear about this as an actor? It was some big west end show at the, like everyone got COVID or something like every, like, and they still wanted to do the show and the freaking stage manager, what are new the lions. And when, of course, and what would you do it
9 (44m 13s):
If I had to,
1 (44m 14s):
This is what we're talking about. These are the kinds of people I want in the foxhole. Someone who would do it, if you, yeah, holy shit. See, this is what are these really true theater heroes? Like people who would be like, you know, if I had to do it, I would do it. And this is who I'd want as a stage manager running thing. That's amazing.
2 (44m 33s):
So I feel like you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who's maybe in a program now for, for stage management, who would answer that question the same way that you did
1 (44m 45s):
Really well,
2 (44m 46s):
Only because, and I, I'm going to try to say this about casting aspersions, cause I really don't have any judgment about it, but it just, it seems to me like we're in this age of like recognizing limits in a more realistic way and not doing this theater at all, costs blood, sweat, and tears. The show must go on. I feel like people today would say the show does not need to go on. I don't know if that's the right answer or not. I mean, I only know. So
9 (45m 23s):
If the audience shows up, the show has to go on.
1 (45m 26s):
Yeah. So there's the other thing it's like, there is this sort of a flip side to the reckoning in American theater and the arts in general, which is the boundaries, which people are setting. Part of me is like right on. And the other part of me is like, this would never fly when I was a 20 something. Like you fucking just do the thing. Like I did. We did that show with right at the Merle reskin with, with Kate McKiernan or whoever with it, your piece and I, and the stage manager feeding the lines. So, so yeah, but we did it and let me tell you something, I'm glad we did, because it did prove to us that like live theater shit happens and also you can do it.
1 (46m 9s):
So there's something about like, you can do it. It will be okay versus no, this is uncomfortable. Shut the shit down. Right? So it's like a line
9 (46m 17s):
And you can apply it. You can apply it to anything in life that any situation where the plan doesn't go according to plan. And if you, I think if you have a theater background, you'll be fine. Like, no problem we'll do this.
2 (46m 37s):
So you're bumping along, working during the day and doing shows at some point did I mean, because what typically happens to people as they do that for whatever it is, 10 years, and then they go
9 (46m 48s):
Seven years, seven years,
2 (46m 50s):
You went back to school.
9 (46m 51s):
I went back to school, I went to hunter, hunter college, very, very inexpensive. And you know, they had a pretty decent program. I really enjoyed the academics because when I was at DePaul, I have no memory of my academics.
1 (47m 10s):
So there you go.
9 (47m 11s):
I took that to they're on my transcript. I have no memory. I took that class. Right. No memory. So I really being a little more mature. I really enjoyed the academics and I took more than I needed because it was so inexpensive. I'm like, this looks good. This looks in terms of the theater department. I am sorry to say I was a snob. Yeah.
1 (47m 37s):
So you were like, this sucks is what basically what
9 (47m 39s):
I was a total snob. I'm like, I'm just here to finish. I don't really need this. I've been doing this for years.
2 (47m 47s):
That's not up to par.
9 (47m 49s):
It just wasn't, it wasn't like a, it wasn't a hands-on program. I mean, they had, you know, you had your director project, you know, your director shows and I did do some hands-on stuff, but it wasn't
1 (48m 4s):
Professional. It wasn't,
9 (48m 6s):
It's not a conservatory, you know. And
1 (48m 9s):
Did you major, did you do a major and all that shit in
9 (48m 13s):
My major was in theater and Spanish literature.
2 (48m 21s):
Oh, so that's the central America thing. I was wondering how you got,
1 (48m 24s):
Right?
9 (48m 24s):
Right.
1 (48m 25s):
Okay. So w hunter is hunter and Queens? No,
9 (48m 29s):
No. It's in Manhattan.
1 (48m 30s):
Okay. So you went there and what was the goal to get a degree or?
9 (48m 35s):
Yeah, so the goal was to finish my degree and to add something more practical to it.
1 (48m 41s):
I eat
9 (48m 42s):
The Spanish. I thought, well, I could teach if I had to, I could always go and teach, which is ironic because now all of these years later, I've just submitted my credentials to get a substitute teaching certificate. Because with my three kids, I can't really figure out how to work
1 (49m 5s):
In the theater, a job
2 (49m 8s):
Speak
1 (49m 9s):
During the
9 (49m 9s):
School day
2 (49m 10s):
On it. Yes, absolutely.
9 (49m 12s):
I'd like a, my, my freedom is confined to the school day. So like, it's hard. I can get, you know, I even retail and
1 (49m 24s):
Say,
9 (49m 25s):
I can only work between nine and two. When my kids are in school, I need my weekends off and the patient
1 (49m 32s):
Then COVID and then might have to go home if they do homeschool. Right.
9 (49m 36s):
And then somebody is sick and then,
2 (49m 39s):
And it's snow days. It can come in with that. Yeah. No, it's,
9 (49m 42s):
It's been especially so, but I, I skipped a whole other chapter when I finished. That's where I am now. When I finished at hunter, that was the same year. My dad passed away in a house fire.
1 (49m 59s):
How, when, what, what year was this?
9 (50m 2s):
2003. Okay.
1 (50m 4s):
Shit that, where was he was he?
9 (50m 9s):
He was in Albany. He worked for the New York state department of labor as an analyst,
1 (50m 13s):
W w
9 (50m 14s):
And a fire started. And
1 (50m 20s):
Holy shit, that was it.
9 (50m 22s):
So that, and the last few years he had been traveling down to the city for work. He was assessing social workers in the field and retraining. And so he was in the city every week and we would have lunch every week. And I was finally getting to know this person. I never really knew thinking, wow, you're really cool. You know, cause mom trash talked you all those years and I'm so glad that we have this time. So
1 (50m 52s):
How long did that happen to me that you were with, that you reconnected? Like how many years did you have good years with him?
9 (51m 1s):
It was about, I would say, let's see, I moved to New York in 95 and maybe around 97. He started coming down to the city, regular
1 (51m 9s):
Like seven years, like five years to six years. Oh.
9 (51m 14s):
But I thought I had forever. I thought I had forever. So I wasn't in a rush to ask him questions or, you know, so I was lost, totally lost after that.
1 (51m 28s):
Holy shit. I am so sorry. I was,
9 (51m 31s):
I was working in commercial print as a associate producer at the time. And
1 (51m 40s):
It just called you and said this happened,
9 (51m 44s):
Or the sheriff called me and were like, and said, you know, we've been trying to get ahold of you. There was a fire yesterday,
10 (51m 52s):
You know,
2 (51m 54s):
Are you an only child?
9 (51m 56s):
I have a younger sister,
10 (51m 58s):
So
1 (51m 59s):
Holy shit. So that is horrific.
9 (52m 4s):
So I spent weekends going up to Albany and like, like a crazy person digging through the rubble to see if I could salvage anything,
1 (52m 13s):
Literally there's rebel. And literally, did you salvage anything?
9 (52m 19s):
I have, I still have bins of smoke stuff like in the basement and Ethica. That's like the last of what I have to clear out of the house in Ethica. My mom was in the house, so yeah, I was totally lost. So I, I took time off and I went to Japan.
10 (52m 39s):
Wow.
9 (52m 41s):
And I got to know my dad through where he came from.
2 (52m 48s):
Oh my God, you learn?
9 (52m 51s):
I learned that he wasn't so strange. I learned that, you know, his, his silence and his mannerisms and, you know, all of that was just, he was just very Japanese.
1 (53m 5s):
And I think that we're in a culture that we don't, It's interesting with this resurgence of podcasting or podcasting coming about. But like, we don't like to ask a lot of questions. And I feel like the only time I asked a questions of my parents were when they were dying, literally like when they were alive, it was too scary. It would open up too many cans of worms. Like, why are you guys so fucked up? It's not really a question, you know, but when they were dying, I could do that. But with your dad, you didn't have warning that was happening. And also with your mom, it sounds like, it just sounds like maybe it was too complicated to get to know her while she was alive.
1 (53m 45s):
Right. Like,
9 (53m 46s):
Yes. Yes. And at the end she, she couldn't speak. So she's, she had multiple sclerosis and you know, which probably she could have received some sort of therapy for earlier on. Had she let any doctor actually diagnose her? Because if
1 (54m 10s):
You don't leave the house, it's really hard to get support.
2 (54m 13s):
Yeah. You're making me realize that. Cause I, I treated a few people when I was a therapist who were, who were hoarding. I, this is sounds very obvious now, but for some reason, I hadn't really thought about it in this way. That, that the hoarding is all about keeping everything inside. And it goes hand in hand with a girl phobia. I am sure to hoarding is about, I refuse to open the box because if I open the
1 (54m 44s):
Box, I will die.
2 (54m 46s):
I will die. I will never come back from that place. It's so interesting. It's so interesting. Like the things are representative of the feelings and the unexpressed thoughts and probably unprocessed trauma it's and, and having in at least one case gone to the home of one of these people, it's this very strange dichotomy of, I'm seeing everything about your illness in every square inch of this apartment, but you don't want to tell me anything about what's going on inside of you.
2 (55m 28s):
It was maddening her. Do you know anything about her, where she came from or what
9 (55m 36s):
She grew up in a conservative Jewish household in Sullivan county, just outside of the city. You know, her, her father was a painter,
1 (55m 49s):
Fine arts,
9 (55m 51s):
A fine arts painter of fine arts painter. You know, we have some paintings of his in the hat. There's so many paintings and he gave, he would go to like the senior center and give art lessons and he would go, you know, he was, he, he was like a very likable, charismatic person. He would go to the diners whenever I would visit, he would go to the diners and say, oh, today's my birthday. You know, I, I should get a free ice cream for himself.
1 (56m 23s):
Okay.
9 (56m 25s):
So
1 (56m 26s):
My question then is like growing up, did you feel like now we have more of a sort of like mixed kid kind of a thing. I'm a mixed kid, like, you know, half Latina. Okay. Did you w what was your relationship like with that being half Japanese half? Did you do what I did, which is just pretend I had nothing in me,
9 (56m 50s):
It was really hard with my name. And I was also, you know, it, it was tough. It was really tough. I was like the Chinese kid with glasses. That's what people would call me. And they didn't understand how I was Japanese and I couldn't speak Japanese. And the reason I couldn't speak Japanese was because the doctors told my mom, don't let dad use Japanese. Cause she'll have trouble in school, which is, you know, now we know it's the opposite. So when my dad died, I started studying Japanese so that I could communicate with all of my family and a little bit, I mean, not so much now,
1 (57m 33s):
But you did learn
9 (57m 33s):
Because I did learn it. I speak like a child. I was better. I actually, when I came back from Japan, the first time I decided that I was going to go to grad school, my dad would be happy if I went to grad school, that's what he wanted me to do. I was going to get back on track. I was good. So I applied to grad school for actually set design because in my travels of working on shows, I discovered I really loved designing sets. And I was offered early acceptance to Carnegie Mellon and to the Mason gross school at Rutgers.
9 (58m 18s):
And then I didn't. And then I found out I was pregnant. So that put me on another chapter, which brought me to take, so our first born, we named Hiroshi after my dad. And I said, well, if his name is Hiroshi, he has to grow up speaking Japanese. Or at least he has to know it or something about it, something more than I did. So I moved to Japan with him.
1 (58m 46s):
Yeah.
9 (58m 48s):
My husband stayed here. He got a tiny apartment and I took the baby to Japan and we were there a little less than a year. And I realized when we come back, I still am not going to be any more fluent. So I started a Japanese preschool in the east village and I hired all. Yes.
1 (59m 9s):
Wow.
9 (59m 10s):
And I ran it.
1 (59m 11s):
What the fuck is happening here? I feel like you've had 730 lines, a lot of lives.
9 (59m 18s):
Well, that's why I keep forgetting things. It's oh, oh, that was,
1 (59m 21s):
You gotta write it down. You gotta write it down.
9 (59m 25s):
So I had the business for seven years and every couple of years I would take the kid and then the two kids, and then the three kids to Japan, I'd rent like a furnished apartment. I'd force all the family members to get together. We would see all my friends who had left New York and moved back to Japan. And we would go to all the summer festivals that we could find. And I would drag them on all the different kinds of shin concept and to all the
1 (59m 53s):
WhatsApp,
9 (59m 55s):
It bullet train. I would, I, and I would do the same things every time we went, because I wanted to kind of like this tradition, or at least the sensory memories where if they go back, they can say,
1 (1h 0m 9s):
Ah,
9 (1h 0m 10s):
Can I say,
1 (1h 0m 12s):
It's so funny, you stage manage the shit out of their childhood.
2 (1h 0m 19s):
Yeah. You're parenting them the way you wish you were parented.
9 (1h 0m 22s):
Yeah.
1 (1h 0m 23s):
Yeah. Well, to me, the other thing that I'm noticing is like, you have created a life. You have, your life is like intense seems to be intentionally created in a certain way. Now that I think, I guess it's like, you've just became, it seems like you became hyper intentional about the way that you're raising your kids.
2 (1h 0m 49s):
Like random. Yeah.
9 (1h 0m 52s):
Yeah. I mean, probably to a fault.
1 (1h 0m 54s):
Other interesting thing is like the, for me, that, that in your DNA, like your dad was a woodworker, right? So he's an artist, your grandfather's a painter. Your mom was a paid a fine artist. So you didn't, you come from a family of artists. So like that, that was there. So it's interesting all the hoarding and all the separation and all the weirdness, it's like the arts are still in the DNA, even if it gets up with a bunch of shit.
9 (1h 1m 22s):
And my husband's side, there's art also. So, you know, it's, you know, it's just beating them over the head, but we let them find their own path.
2 (1h 1m 32s):
And where are you sitting now with your own creative desires and intentions?
9 (1h 1m 38s):
Well, that's the thing. That's where I'm like, oh, well, everyone's doing great. And now, you know what happened to the track that I was on. So it's funny because I decided, okay, now I'm going to go back to grad school. So if there's one thing I could say is, first of all, try to finish the first school you go to don't transfer and then second go to grad school right away and get it out of the way. Get it done before you have kids. Because I kept saying every two years, I'm like, oh, you know, I could have finished it already. Oh, I could have finished it. However busy. I thought I was two years later, I would think, wow, now I'm busier.
1 (1h 2m 14s):
Great. Like those things, you know, when you, I liked, when you said, if you could say anything, you would say, don't transfer, get it done, go to grad school right away. Because what did those things to me signify to you? Like, what do they represent to you? Like finishing those things, like the grad degree in that I'm just curious, like for you
9 (1h 2m 31s):
Getting that, that grad degree, I would love, honestly, I would love to, I would love to teach not little kids. I don't have the patience for little kids. I thought I did. And I was kind of looking at grad school for education, but I'm not going to do that.
1 (1h 2m 47s):
So w w what would you like to teach? Like, what if you had your, like, ah, my wish for you is that you go to grad school right. Very soon. And that you do the thing you want to do. And like, what would that be? Like? What would the teaching be? What would you want to teach?
9 (1h 3m 4s):
You know, that's a good question. That's a good question. When the programs I was looking at this year were actually for research administration and compliance, because which is kind of like stage managing, right? And I thought I could have a bigger impact in a nonprofit environment. You know, I do a lot of volunteer work And I kind of thought that this would be a good way to combine the skillset I have from all of my different experiences, managing and directing, whether it was theater or preschool or my own business or retail, whatever it is, it's all the same skill sets you need.
9 (1h 3m 47s):
Right. It really is. If you come, if you break it down and then I could apply it to, to deuce to contribute something to the greater good and have benefits and have a paycheck and all of that stuff that I started out having that as like a mom, I kind of lost along the way where it was something I was doing for myself where it wasn't just like, I'm doing this because I needed it. It's I'm doing this because this is the job I want to be doing.
1 (1h 4m 14s):
Right. And I also think that there is something coming to me. It's so funny as we do these interviews with people, I have these like weird witchy things that happened to me, where I get a sense of what they're going to be doing. And I think you're gonna write, there's something about memoir for me, with you about, oh, I've
9 (1h 4m 31s):
Started.
1 (1h 4m 32s):
Okay, well, you need to finish. I think that's the key. You may be someone who teaches other people how to either write a memoir or collect family history, oral storytelling, something about the past, and also the commitment to tradition. There's something there. And I bet you're going to be a writer. I have this feeling. There's some,
9 (1h 4m 60s):
That was my original goal when I was a kid. A little kid. Yeah.
1 (1h 5m 4s):
And did you get talked out of it?
9 (1h 5m 7s):
No. Oh, no. I never got talked out of what I wanted to do. It was just getting talked out of leaving the house.
1 (1h 5m 13s):
That's getting talked out of so many things, but something that you
2 (1h 5m 17s):
Definitely don't need to leave the house for
9 (1h 5m 19s):
Writing. I, I did win a, an essay award in high school and, and it was actually, it was a story I wrote about my grandfather, the, the painter, and, you know, it's hard. I feel like, I feel like I'm waiting for the kids to get old enough where I can find regular pockets of time for myself, where I could actually sit down and finish a thought and not be in the grocery store
2 (1h 5m 53s):
Girl. <inaudible> for what it's worth. I'll tell you what I've learned, which is, you know, getting interrupted. Really the problem is getting interrupted because you have to write in a flow and you can't do that. If every five minutes somebody is coming to ask you to unpause the wifi. So I personally need to leave my house. And at a time when my husband can, can be with the kids and, and I stopped doing the thing that I was doing initially, which was, I'd go someplace and I'd spent, you know, I'd have four hours and I'd spend an hour like dicking around on the internet.
2 (1h 6m 36s):
I finally learned that that's part of the process, that it's all part of the process. Actually, you're writing when you're walking around the grocery store too. And you're writing when you're having your shower thoughts, you're always actually writing. The hard part is finding the moment to put everything that's in here down and have an uninterrupted chunk of time to do that. And the other thing that's hard to do, I mean, I can really relate to a lot of what you're saying. The other thing that's hard to do in my family is to convince people in my family that it's still work. Even though I'm not getting paid for it right now.
9 (1h 7m 14s):
Oh, yes.
2 (1h 7m 16s):
Right. It's like, well, yeah, because if I, if I got a salary for what I did for you, people I'd be the top earner here because everything in state, I am stage managing the fuck out.
9 (1h 7m 31s):
You don't have a choice.
2 (1h 7m 32s):
Yeah, exactly.
1 (1h 7m 33s):
Okay. So here's my question. If we sat down with you in a year and we sit down on your, and we say, and we Jean, and I say, so what's happening? What would you love to be happening a year from now today?
9 (1h 7m 51s):
Oh, well, I would really love to be in school. I would really love to be in school.
2 (1h 8m 1s):
Well, you seem like a person who likes people to keep you accountable. So I'm happy to do that. What's going on. Come back on the show and tell us what you've been up
9 (1h 8m 11s):
To today. I'll take the challenge.
4 (1h 8m 21s):
If you liked what you heard today, please give us a positive five star review and subscribe and tell your friends. I survived. Theater school is an undeniable ink production den, Bosworth Ramirez, and Gina plea chief, or the co-hosts. This episode was produced, edited, and sound mixed by Gina <inaudible>. For more information about this podcast or other goings on of undeniable, Inc. Please visit our website@undeniablewriters.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Thank you.