WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:07.089 --> 00:00:09.519 Candace Dellacona: Welcome to the Sandwich Generation Survival Guide. 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:16.969 I am your host, Candace Dellacona, and on the pod today I have a fellow podcaster. 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:23.469 So excited to welcome Vanessa Grigoriadis, who is here to share some 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:26.049 wisdom as we like to do on the podcast. 00:00:26.049 --> 00:00:26.919 Welcome, Vanessa. 00:00:27.304 --> 00:00:28.659 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Thank you so much for having me. 00:00:29.254 --> 00:00:33.244 Candace Dellacona: So we will go into a little about how we met, because I 00:00:33.244 --> 00:00:37.714 think one of the things that we found that we had in common is that you 00:00:37.714 --> 00:00:43.364 and I are searching for a platform or have found a platform, but we 00:00:43.364 --> 00:00:49.294 are really doing our best to try to provide resources to people like us. 00:00:49.694 --> 00:00:54.494 Those who are in the middle as the title of my podcast denotes that 00:00:54.494 --> 00:00:56.144 we're in the sandwich generation. 00:00:56.144 --> 00:00:59.294 We found ourselves in the middle, and you are the perfect person because you 00:00:59.294 --> 00:01:06.494 are the host of the relatively newly launched, So My Parents Are Old podcast. 00:01:07.004 --> 00:01:07.379 Vanessa Grigoriadis: That's right. 00:01:07.664 --> 00:01:10.004 Candace Dellacona: And so we're so happy to have you here. 00:01:10.004 --> 00:01:13.604 Before we get into the podcast and how you started, I wanna know a 00:01:13.604 --> 00:01:18.284 little bit about you, who you are, how you got into this podcast world. 00:01:18.624 --> 00:01:19.854 So let's take it from the top. 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:21.099 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Sure. 00:01:21.149 --> 00:01:23.369 So I'm from New York City. 00:01:23.399 --> 00:01:25.049 I'm from the Upper West Side. 00:01:25.099 --> 00:01:31.489 My dad was a professor, my mom is an artist and I grew up I'm Greek American. 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:35.389 My father was actually from Istanbul and he was Greek from Istanbul. 00:01:35.389 --> 00:01:40.459 So he came here to go to Lehigh University and he had a engineering 00:01:40.459 --> 00:01:42.979 degree, then became a computer scientist. 00:01:43.309 --> 00:01:48.839 I lived a very typical upper West side life where things 00:01:48.839 --> 00:01:51.819 are about academic achievement. 00:01:51.909 --> 00:01:54.639 I played violin for a long time. 00:01:54.639 --> 00:02:00.749 My father also played violin and socialists, intellectuals, 00:02:00.999 --> 00:02:01.239 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:02:01.539 --> 00:02:01.809 Yeah. 00:02:02.219 --> 00:02:05.189 Vanessa Grigoriadis: at the same time accruing all sorts 00:02:05.219 --> 00:02:07.739 of things and accruing money. 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:10.929 And, definitely on the hoarder spectrum, they were there on 00:02:10.929 --> 00:02:12.039 the hoarder spectrum a bit. 00:02:12.489 --> 00:02:19.579 But they, were people who lived a professional life and 00:02:19.579 --> 00:02:21.229 a personal life for many years. 00:02:21.289 --> 00:02:25.429 And then, both got sick and I'm their only child. 00:02:25.519 --> 00:02:33.459 So the life of a fancy free intellectual living in a Woody Allen Paradise, 00:02:33.459 --> 00:02:38.859 at some point there's like a record scratch and it's like, oh yeah, it's 00:02:38.859 --> 00:02:45.729 not just about dinner reservations and getting a gold star at work. 00:02:46.254 --> 00:02:50.244 And a lot of recognition and feeling like you're contributing 00:02:50.244 --> 00:02:52.794 to the culture because I was a magazine writer for a million years. 00:02:52.794 --> 00:02:53.754 What a great job. 00:02:54.204 --> 00:02:59.734 It's also about family duty, family responsibility, and particularly 00:02:59.734 --> 00:03:05.044 financial responsibility, which has been really hard for me because of 00:03:05.524 --> 00:03:10.384 the relationship I had with my parents financially and the relationship they had 00:03:10.774 --> 00:03:13.204 to finances, which was very complicated. 00:03:13.584 --> 00:03:18.604 Candace Dellacona: And to be fair, most family has its own lore as it's related 00:03:18.604 --> 00:03:21.124 to money, and it's super complicated. 00:03:21.124 --> 00:03:25.894 I've yet to meet someone that doesn't have a sort of unique connection to 00:03:25.894 --> 00:03:29.434 money and how their parents may have treated it, how it's different for them. 00:03:29.434 --> 00:03:30.784 But let's go back a little. 00:03:30.784 --> 00:03:35.374 So you know, you really are the product of the American dream in many ways. 00:03:35.374 --> 00:03:40.894 Your dad came here as an immigrant and obviously was a very bright person. 00:03:40.944 --> 00:03:47.394 You point out that as the quote unquote kid, our job for quite some time is 00:03:47.394 --> 00:03:51.084 to make our parents proud and work hard and find our own path, which you 00:03:51.084 --> 00:03:52.914 did with great success as a writer. 00:03:53.374 --> 00:03:57.904 Having had a lot of accolades in that part of your professional life. 00:03:58.379 --> 00:04:02.819 And the record scratch, I think is the perfect visual for most of us because 00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:06.029 I think that's exactly how it goes down for the people in the sandwich 00:04:06.029 --> 00:04:09.839 generation where we are cruising along in our own lives until we're not. 00:04:09.899 --> 00:04:16.404 Until other people tap us on the shoulder and say, we need help or they're not 00:04:16.404 --> 00:04:19.734 tapping us on the shoulder, and we're the ones that have to scratch our own record 00:04:19.734 --> 00:04:21.654 and say, wait a minute, things are amiss. 00:04:21.704 --> 00:04:27.154 So what was that moment for you, Vanessa, where you're forging your own path, 00:04:27.334 --> 00:04:30.934 making your own dinner reservations, as they say, and making your own plans? 00:04:30.934 --> 00:04:32.704 When did all of that change? 00:04:34.114 --> 00:04:34.834 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah, so I, okay. 00:04:34.834 --> 00:04:39.424 I started at New York Magazine as an assistant in, the late nineties. 00:04:39.514 --> 00:04:42.344 I was like, I wasn't Carrie Bradshaw. 00:04:42.364 --> 00:04:45.994 I didn't write about my sex life, but I really had this life where I was just 00:04:45.994 --> 00:04:48.544 like tap, tap, tap on my laptop in bed. 00:04:48.604 --> 00:04:51.454 And it was a very lucrative career at that point. 00:04:51.454 --> 00:04:55.374 Getting, invites to a play to a, black tie gala. 00:04:55.374 --> 00:04:56.844 Everybody's so happy to see me. 00:04:56.844 --> 00:04:58.314 I was really in the mix. 00:04:58.739 --> 00:05:01.469 I wrote also a lot about celebrities. 00:05:01.469 --> 00:05:05.489 So I've interviewed, Madonna, Lady Gaga did her first interview. 00:05:05.489 --> 00:05:09.029 I spent four days with Taylor Swift for her first Rolling Stone cover. 00:05:09.339 --> 00:05:14.739 I'm known, I did the first like Monica Lewinsky interview after, Bill Clinton. 00:05:14.739 --> 00:05:16.299 It was like me and Diane Sawyer. 00:05:16.299 --> 00:05:16.989 I was the print. 00:05:16.989 --> 00:05:18.849 Diane Sawyer got the tv. 00:05:18.849 --> 00:05:23.889 Like I really was a bold face name kind of reporter and being 00:05:23.889 --> 00:05:26.499 in media is very consuming. 00:05:26.569 --> 00:05:29.839 It's a really exciting job, but it's a one that's very hard to 00:05:29.839 --> 00:05:33.229 put to bed at night and sometimes you're working at night as well. 00:05:33.619 --> 00:05:38.189 And I had a baby that was much desired, right? 00:05:38.189 --> 00:05:38.939 And quite late. 00:05:38.969 --> 00:05:41.999 I had my first baby, I think I was like 36, 37. 00:05:42.539 --> 00:05:49.494 And my parents had me a bit older, so they were then in their seventies 00:05:49.524 --> 00:05:51.084 and they were over the moon. 00:05:51.354 --> 00:05:57.554 So happy about this tiny little baby girl Olympia after my heritage. 00:05:57.614 --> 00:06:03.789 And did I think everything seemed normal during that period of time? 00:06:04.249 --> 00:06:04.789 Not really. 00:06:05.114 --> 00:06:07.544 I was like, these people are getting old. 00:06:07.664 --> 00:06:15.749 But I didn't think past that point, particularly because my father then 00:06:15.809 --> 00:06:21.299 retired when he was almost 80 and there was a lot of paperwork and they 00:06:21.299 --> 00:06:25.859 had a flood in their house and like different things were always happening 00:06:25.859 --> 00:06:28.104 that put off the conversation about 00:06:30.134 --> 00:06:32.234 what does the end look like for you guys? 00:06:32.234 --> 00:06:34.214 Where are the passwords to your accounts? 00:06:34.214 --> 00:06:36.584 What are even your accounts? 00:06:36.614 --> 00:06:38.624 What is the financial situation? 00:06:38.624 --> 00:06:41.204 Because you guys are living in the same apartment that you had 00:06:41.204 --> 00:06:45.344 since like 1960, yet you seem to have money to pay for everything. 00:06:45.344 --> 00:06:49.724 So it was like this always this very mixed message with them where they 00:06:49.784 --> 00:06:54.764 drove secondhand cars, but there was money that was squirreled away. 00:06:56.019 --> 00:06:58.919 They had both been part of 1968 Columbia. 00:06:58.919 --> 00:07:00.329 They got, my mom went to Columbia. 00:07:00.329 --> 00:07:04.749 She, was very anti-war and they just, they both were also younger 00:07:05.049 --> 00:07:06.999 children, which is really interesting. 00:07:07.389 --> 00:07:12.009 They were younger in their own families and, I don't know, was 00:07:12.009 --> 00:07:13.389 there a little arrested development? 00:07:13.389 --> 00:07:18.219 Who knows what, but it was basically, we were not one of those families 00:07:18.219 --> 00:07:21.879 where people talked openly about money or said, this is amazing. 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:25.389 My ex stock is doing so great at the dinner table. 00:07:25.389 --> 00:07:27.369 That was all considered to be very gosh. 00:07:28.029 --> 00:07:33.199 And I got pregnant again with a boy and I had him in June. 00:07:33.349 --> 00:07:39.019 And then at the end of August, my father was diagnosed with bone cancer. 00:07:39.699 --> 00:07:42.069 I mean, it was insane. 00:07:42.119 --> 00:07:44.549 It was everywhere in his body. 00:07:44.579 --> 00:07:49.049 And he passed away in the beginning of January. 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:49.429 Candace Dellacona: Right. 00:07:51.029 --> 00:07:54.159 Vanessa Grigoriadis: During that period of time, we got the will in order. 00:07:54.159 --> 00:07:58.999 There's a few different things that we got in order, but he did not wanna 00:07:58.999 --> 00:08:01.519 talk to me about what was going on. 00:08:02.329 --> 00:08:07.159 When he was diagnosed, he had had an accident and he was then in 00:08:07.159 --> 00:08:11.239 a wheelchair and he never even turned on his computer again. 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:17.329 So he was not in a place to sit down and say, Vanessa, let me tell you. 00:08:18.544 --> 00:08:23.674 How I've structured our finances and what you need to know. 00:08:23.794 --> 00:08:27.604 And indeed, my mother did the taxes, even though it was a more of a typical, 00:08:27.914 --> 00:08:31.574 gendered relationship where he did deal with a lot of the finances, 00:08:31.574 --> 00:08:34.184 she did the taxes with him, they took their taxes very seriously. 00:08:34.184 --> 00:08:39.854 Like they really were very organized in that way. 00:08:40.544 --> 00:08:41.114 But. 00:08:42.629 --> 00:08:45.629 This is where my key mistake came in. 00:08:46.109 --> 00:08:47.039 After he passed away. 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:50.449 Obviously I was totally heartbroken as was my mother. 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:58.549 I found an estate attorney through my network of contacts of young 00:08:58.549 --> 00:09:03.319 professionals in New York City, who was lovely, who my mom worked 00:09:03.319 --> 00:09:06.109 with, and I went to a few meetings. 00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:07.609 I signed all the forms. 00:09:07.789 --> 00:09:11.719 I did whatever it was that they wanted me to do, but I did not 00:09:11.719 --> 00:09:15.409 take any ownership in that process. 00:09:15.439 --> 00:09:18.349 Simultaneously knowing that my mother was like in her late 00:09:18.349 --> 00:09:23.249 seventies, I had said when my dad was sick, she's acting pretty weird. 00:09:23.249 --> 00:09:24.299 Are people noticing that? 00:09:24.299 --> 00:09:25.739 She's acting pretty weird? 00:09:25.739 --> 00:09:28.629 And everybody was like, it's grief, I don't know what you're talking about. 00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:29.349 It's grief. 00:09:30.249 --> 00:09:33.879 And so I was like, sweet. 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:34.689 You guys did everything. 00:09:34.739 --> 00:09:35.489 Seems good. 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:36.329 Okay, cool. 00:09:36.329 --> 00:09:38.359 I've got two kids, by the way. 00:09:38.529 --> 00:09:39.069 You know a baby. 00:09:39.089 --> 00:09:40.049 Candace Dellacona: You're in the thick of it. 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:41.214 You're literally the thick of 00:09:41.219 --> 00:09:43.469 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah, I have a full-time job. 00:09:43.469 --> 00:09:44.249 Very stressful. 00:09:44.249 --> 00:09:51.079 I'd started my own company then in 2019 a podcast company, because magazines seem to 00:09:51.079 --> 00:09:56.999 be falling apart, so I was in the thick of starting a new company, having two kids. 00:09:56.999 --> 00:09:59.894 I live in a very isolated part of Brooklyn and Red Hook. 00:09:59.894 --> 00:10:06.239 I was just not thinking that I had to set everything up, set up 00:10:06.239 --> 00:10:08.309 for success for me and my mom. 00:10:08.369 --> 00:10:11.249 And I wasn't, I didn't need any of her money, right? 00:10:11.249 --> 00:10:13.949 I was like, you knock yourself out, do whatever you're gonna do. 00:10:13.949 --> 00:10:14.879 Whatever you want. 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:15.359 Great. 00:10:15.359 --> 00:10:19.319 Like I'm not after any of money goes to you and the will, and then 00:10:19.319 --> 00:10:20.969 it goes to me, and that's perfect. 00:10:21.389 --> 00:10:23.429 Candace Dellacona: There was a, an expected trajectory. 00:10:23.429 --> 00:10:26.699 But before you go on, I think one of two of the things that 00:10:26.699 --> 00:10:27.509 you said are interesting. 00:10:27.509 --> 00:10:28.064 Which was the roles. 00:10:29.154 --> 00:10:33.474 And I think as adult children we get really stuck before we 00:10:33.474 --> 00:10:36.234 make that first step and what our role is in the family unit. 00:10:36.234 --> 00:10:38.214 So you are the only child. 00:10:38.554 --> 00:10:43.104 Your parents' attention were probably very much on you throughout your life. 00:10:43.104 --> 00:10:47.664 So it's, it is a role reversal to turn around and look at your parents 00:10:47.664 --> 00:10:51.924 who you know, in your case, you had two very capable, educated adults 00:10:51.924 --> 00:10:55.134 who had always done a fantastic job. 00:10:55.134 --> 00:10:56.934 Who are we to step in? 00:10:56.934 --> 00:10:59.604 So number one role, number two, ownership. 00:10:59.634 --> 00:11:04.074 And that is something that, I talk about with my clients all of the time, and 00:11:04.074 --> 00:11:09.794 then their adult children, which does go back to role playing because you 00:11:09.884 --> 00:11:13.454 went through the motions of what you were supposed to do, and let's point out 00:11:13.454 --> 00:11:16.184 you were grieving, which is enormous. 00:11:16.244 --> 00:11:21.944 And there, there is so much of grief as part of what we're talking about in the 00:11:21.944 --> 00:11:23.834 sandwich generation for various reasons. 00:11:23.834 --> 00:11:27.254 Grieving what our role used to be, what it's becoming, 00:11:27.254 --> 00:11:29.144 losing the parent that we love. 00:11:29.574 --> 00:11:34.404 All of the things related to grief and you going in and checking the box. 00:11:34.404 --> 00:11:37.074 You are someone who is a researcher, a writer. 00:11:37.469 --> 00:11:41.699 You have resources, you have all of the things, and yet you are just 00:11:41.699 --> 00:11:43.499 trying to survive in all of that. 00:11:43.499 --> 00:11:45.869 And so not maybe noticing signs. 00:11:46.109 --> 00:11:48.539 And I think that's where you're going to talk about what happened 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.469 with your mom next is something so universal for all of us. 00:11:52.469 --> 00:11:53.969 And those out there listening. 00:11:54.984 --> 00:11:55.284 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Right. 00:11:55.284 --> 00:11:59.514 I think what's unique about my story is I could have had these 00:11:59.514 --> 00:12:06.924 conversations and for whatever reason, emotionally, as you say, I didn't feel. 00:12:07.239 --> 00:12:08.529 Comfortable doing it. 00:12:08.529 --> 00:12:11.379 It's not one of those stories where there were like a million brothers and 00:12:11.379 --> 00:12:15.309 sisters and somebody knew something and then the other ones didn't, 00:12:15.309 --> 00:12:16.989 and it becomes like a big mess. 00:12:17.439 --> 00:12:24.009 What I want people to know is that you're always better off dealing with 00:12:24.009 --> 00:12:27.609 this earlier and more fully right? 00:12:27.609 --> 00:12:33.969 Because all that happens if you put it off is more aggravation, more headaches, 00:12:33.969 --> 00:12:37.149 more paperwork, more administrative burden, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:40.119 And I appreciate you saying of course there's different roles 00:12:40.119 --> 00:12:44.799 and they're very hard to break out of, but I think my mom would've 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:47.559 been open to talking some of that. 00:12:47.649 --> 00:12:52.569 But then as she got sicker, 'cause she did develop some memory loss, 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:58.329 then she did clamp down and say, I've got everything under control. 00:12:58.444 --> 00:12:58.734 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:12:59.094 --> 00:12:59.454 Yeah. 00:12:59.829 --> 00:13:03.669 Vanessa Grigoriadis: And she had a fall about four years ago. 00:13:03.669 --> 00:13:08.829 It's coming up on four years, and that was the fall that changed everything. 00:13:08.929 --> 00:13:13.969 Thankfully, I used that fall to get her in-home help that she had 00:13:13.969 --> 00:13:17.969 needed for at least a couple of years and was refusing to take as 00:13:17.969 --> 00:13:19.979 a lot of people have experienced. 00:13:20.029 --> 00:13:22.429 You're like, mom, dad, can I get you a housekeeper? 00:13:22.429 --> 00:13:23.449 And they're like, absolutely not. 00:13:23.449 --> 00:13:24.499 We would not pay for that. 00:13:24.499 --> 00:13:28.099 And it was like, are you aware that you're about to use your entire life savings? 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:28.649 Candace Dellacona: Exactly 00:13:29.289 --> 00:13:30.459 Vanessa Grigoriadis: to take care of yourself. 00:13:30.459 --> 00:13:33.189 Maybe just get a housekeeper so you can spend a couple of years not 00:13:33.189 --> 00:13:37.189 bending over so you fall over, pull your back or whatever, 'cause people 00:13:37.189 --> 00:13:41.049 feel invisible and old people are difficult and we all know all the 00:13:41.049 --> 00:13:43.149 reasons why these things are happening. 00:13:43.249 --> 00:13:47.074 But it is like a slow motion train wreck. 00:13:47.204 --> 00:13:52.244 And then of course a memory loss itself is like a slow motion train wreck. 00:13:52.244 --> 00:14:00.964 So I basically, as her only child was just handed this whole basket of, gifts, 00:14:00.964 --> 00:14:06.884 which is like, now it's time for you to figure out how to care for your mom. 00:14:06.914 --> 00:14:08.234 What's the best for her? 00:14:08.264 --> 00:14:09.549 Does she stay in her apartment? 00:14:09.549 --> 00:14:10.509 Does she leave? 00:14:10.939 --> 00:14:13.699 She is in her apartment, who should be taking care of her? 00:14:13.859 --> 00:14:19.469 So I spent at least two years figuring out who the best aides were. 00:14:19.469 --> 00:14:20.939 And knock on wood, they stay. 00:14:20.939 --> 00:14:26.359 'cause she likes them and I love them and they're allowing me to have the life 00:14:26.359 --> 00:14:28.669 to sit here and talk to you right now. 00:14:28.729 --> 00:14:34.034 And so I'm a big believer that there are incredible home care aides out there, 00:14:34.034 --> 00:14:37.544 and it's just a matter of you finding them and you just gotta keep working 00:14:37.544 --> 00:14:39.674 at it until you find the right people. 00:14:39.829 --> 00:14:40.249 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:14:40.784 --> 00:14:42.344 But let's go back to the basket, right? 00:14:42.344 --> 00:14:44.449 So you like a 00:14:44.469 --> 00:14:46.329 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Of dreadful gifts. 00:14:46.359 --> 00:14:46.599 Yeah. 00:14:46.724 --> 00:14:49.724 Candace Dellacona: and record scratch moment probably started when your 00:14:49.724 --> 00:14:54.174 dad got diagnosed because, I think what happens to all of us is that we 00:14:54.174 --> 00:14:58.944 expect the fall, which did eventually happen with your mom, but if you look 00:14:58.944 --> 00:15:04.014 back now, it's probably pretty clear for you to see that your role started 00:15:04.014 --> 00:15:06.264 changing upon your dad's diagnosis. 00:15:06.804 --> 00:15:11.094 And then you had these sort of like micro movements that slowly 00:15:11.454 --> 00:15:15.429 pushed you in the direction into the position that you're in now. 00:15:15.489 --> 00:15:20.679 And I think a lot of us myself included, turn around and 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.509 say, wait, how did I get here. 00:15:22.539 --> 00:15:26.409 Now with the benefit of time and, being able to look back in this sort 00:15:26.409 --> 00:15:29.629 of macro view, it's pretty clear. 00:15:30.019 --> 00:15:35.374 And so you found yourself pretty quickly from not having any sort of 00:15:35.374 --> 00:15:41.644 active role to taking on care for your mom with this memory impairment that 00:15:41.644 --> 00:15:43.084 I think a lot of people deal with. 00:15:43.394 --> 00:15:47.204 And the trick of memory impairment too is that for a certain amount of 00:15:47.204 --> 00:15:52.789 time, the in between the purgatory where the client, the parent has some 00:15:52.789 --> 00:15:57.499 capacity, but maybe not enough requisite capacity to manage their whole lives. 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:03.799 And then where do we step in as the adult child, how do we be respectful in 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:09.049 such a way that respects their agency and who they are as people while keeping 00:16:09.049 --> 00:16:10.939 them safe and keeping yourself sane. 00:16:10.944 --> 00:16:13.219 And the basket is the perfect analogy. 00:16:13.219 --> 00:16:15.399 'cause you're handed this basket of figure this out. 00:16:15.914 --> 00:16:19.844 Do the finances, figure out the care, deal with the doctors, run your own life. 00:16:20.384 --> 00:16:25.214 And that sort of brought us to our common ground, which is what you hope to do and 00:16:25.214 --> 00:16:27.254 what you are doing with your podcast. 00:16:28.349 --> 00:16:28.679 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah. 00:16:28.729 --> 00:16:37.519 I felt like there needed to be a forum for people to talk about this because I found 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:45.139 it to be one of the most life-changing and loneliest experiences I've ever had. 00:16:45.189 --> 00:16:51.394 Because I am a bit older of a parent to my children and because my parents 00:16:51.424 --> 00:16:54.154 also got married when they were older. 00:16:54.154 --> 00:16:59.224 We are, the ultimate examples of my mom is 83. 00:16:59.284 --> 00:17:00.544 I am midlife. 00:17:00.574 --> 00:17:03.244 I have a 9-year-old and a 13-year-old. 00:17:03.274 --> 00:17:05.374 There's big gaps here. 00:17:05.824 --> 00:17:11.174 I have found that i'm very alone in this because most of the friends 00:17:11.174 --> 00:17:15.334 that I have who are through, my kids, they're a bit younger than me and 00:17:15.334 --> 00:17:17.224 they haven't experienced this yet. 00:17:17.284 --> 00:17:22.384 And even a lot of my friends from, way back, their parents 00:17:22.384 --> 00:17:24.604 are still okay in their eighties. 00:17:24.634 --> 00:17:28.814 Maybe because they're of a certain socioeconomic bracket, and I'm not 00:17:28.814 --> 00:17:32.654 saying a parent hasn't died here or there, but I'm not seeing a lot of 00:17:32.654 --> 00:17:39.079 people who are involved in daily, long-term care for a parent in my 00:17:39.109 --> 00:17:42.319 specific little cohort of friends. 00:17:42.679 --> 00:17:47.299 I think, and even if I did, and to be frank, I have a friend, a friend's wife 00:17:47.389 --> 00:17:51.409 whose dad just went through the 80th street residence and he just passed away. 00:17:51.409 --> 00:17:53.419 So now he's ahead of my mom. 00:17:53.469 --> 00:17:56.409 And like I have talked to her, it's hard for her. 00:17:56.409 --> 00:17:57.399 Her dad has just passed away. 00:17:57.449 --> 00:18:02.069 It's difficult when you are talking to people whose parents have memory loss, 00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:05.529 you start having the conversation and then somebody says okay, my mom is much further 00:18:05.529 --> 00:18:10.614 along than your mom now, so it's a sort of a weird conversation sometimes anyway. 00:18:10.614 --> 00:18:15.384 But not having siblings, turns out to suck. 00:18:16.199 --> 00:18:18.599 Turns out to not be ideal. 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.319 We got all the presence as kids, but now not ideal. 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.589 And I know that people fight with their brothers and sisters and I'm 00:18:25.589 --> 00:18:32.429 sure that there is nothing like the pain and the anger, like the fiery 00:18:32.429 --> 00:18:36.659 core of anger that you can feel towards somebody who says, I'm doing so much. 00:18:36.659 --> 00:18:39.899 I call mom on Sunday and I send her things on Amazon. 00:18:39.999 --> 00:18:45.399 I get all that, but it's also hard to just be me in my brain trying 00:18:45.399 --> 00:18:46.899 to put all these things together. 00:18:46.899 --> 00:18:50.689 And one other thing to know about me is I'm a perfectionist, so everything 00:18:50.689 --> 00:18:52.819 I do, I want to have done it perfectly. 00:18:53.489 --> 00:18:56.339 Like a lot of women, I think, who are professional in midlife, 00:18:56.339 --> 00:18:57.839 like I want it to be perfect. 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.469 And then you know that there's just too many things to do 00:19:01.499 --> 00:19:02.489 to really make them perfect. 00:19:02.489 --> 00:19:07.829 But I just felt like I wasn't able to have these conversations with the number 00:19:07.829 --> 00:19:10.469 of people I wanted to talk to about it. 00:19:10.709 --> 00:19:15.409 Candace Dellacona: And so tell me like, so you find Campsite Media that's just 00:19:15.409 --> 00:19:17.149 remarkable in and of itself, right? 00:19:17.149 --> 00:19:21.849 Where, we talk about playing these multiple roles in life. 00:19:21.879 --> 00:19:26.149 And so you're a business owner, you're a parent of young children, 00:19:26.179 --> 00:19:29.959 you're a grieving daughter, you're also the daughter and advocating 00:19:29.959 --> 00:19:35.089 for someone who perhaps is not at the same level she once was. 00:19:35.529 --> 00:19:39.759 What was the transition to saying, all right, now I'm going to create 00:19:39.849 --> 00:19:42.159 the podcast for the loneliness? 00:19:42.159 --> 00:19:45.519 That is partly why you know my story, and that is definitely something that 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:50.709 struck a nerve when we first had our conversation about how hard it is and 00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:56.744 how lonely it is, being in the trenches and feeling incredibly isolated. 00:19:56.744 --> 00:19:59.654 And I think even people with siblings would say the same thing because 00:19:59.654 --> 00:20:02.234 we all deal with it differently and we all play a role within the 00:20:02.234 --> 00:20:03.794 family and back to the role playing. 00:20:03.844 --> 00:20:06.844 Who can do or who can pay for or who can be there. 00:20:07.244 --> 00:20:10.934 And we all feel like we're failing and there's loneliness in that 00:20:11.499 --> 00:20:16.609 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah, I mean we, Campsite Media is a journalism 00:20:16.609 --> 00:20:18.049 company, first and foremost. 00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:20.389 So we make a lot of investigative podcasts. 00:20:20.389 --> 00:20:24.169 We're all magazine writers from like the Times Magazine or New York 00:20:24.169 --> 00:20:27.259 Magazine, Vanity Fair, GQ, those. 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:31.779 Sort of in the, now it's like we make horses and buggies or something in 00:20:31.779 --> 00:20:35.259 this day and age like to do journalism and really try to do it right is 00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:37.259 like this thing of oldie times. 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:42.629 But, we're all these long form journalists who love digging into a story. 00:20:42.629 --> 00:20:48.819 And, the podcast business has really changed where now people want their 00:20:48.819 --> 00:20:54.999 hosts to be talking from a place of lived experience, of authenticity, 00:20:54.999 --> 00:20:56.949 of what really matters to you. 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.609 And when I looked, when we decided at the company we need to get into this 00:21:00.609 --> 00:21:05.229 game, when I looked at myself, I was like, this is what I am really doing 00:21:05.229 --> 00:21:07.929 and thinking about day in and day out. 00:21:07.989 --> 00:21:13.239 This is a thing that really needs community and people need an outlet. 00:21:13.269 --> 00:21:14.189 Candace Dellacona: Talk authenticity. 00:21:14.189 --> 00:21:16.089 You're literally in the midst of it. 00:21:16.089 --> 00:21:17.909 You are in the throw of it. 00:21:17.954 --> 00:21:19.034 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Exactly. 00:21:19.064 --> 00:21:20.144 Exactly. 00:21:20.364 --> 00:21:21.034 Candace Dellacona: Who better than you. 00:21:21.344 --> 00:21:21.794 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah. 00:21:21.794 --> 00:21:26.404 And we've had people, we had a real estate attorney talk about, step 00:21:26.404 --> 00:21:30.004 up basis and what to do with your parents' home or a friend of mine 00:21:30.004 --> 00:21:33.269 who's a volunteer hospice person. 00:21:33.269 --> 00:21:35.159 She talked about that experience. 00:21:35.209 --> 00:21:42.169 It's an entire ecosystem of people doing incredible work that the media 00:21:42.259 --> 00:21:46.669 does not cover because it's depressing. 00:21:46.789 --> 00:21:48.529 Like it's, let's just be real. 00:21:48.529 --> 00:21:49.779 It's it's depressing. 00:21:49.779 --> 00:21:51.399 Nobody wants to think about death. 00:21:51.459 --> 00:21:54.579 Everybody is really focused on youth in this culture. 00:21:54.579 --> 00:21:58.139 People are trying to make themselves look, 30 years younger every day when 00:21:58.139 --> 00:22:01.109 they get up in the morning, that's like their number one thing they're gonna do. 00:22:01.109 --> 00:22:05.429 So who wants to really talk about this? 00:22:05.489 --> 00:22:10.499 But to me it's politically speaking, I'm like, this is the stuff of government. 00:22:10.529 --> 00:22:17.349 This is what we all need help with, is figuring out care in 00:22:17.349 --> 00:22:21.589 these arenas specifically happens to be happening with my mom. 00:22:21.589 --> 00:22:24.619 To me, it happened to me with my kids before, but I just accepted 00:22:24.619 --> 00:22:25.939 okay, there's no help for that. 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:29.759 Candace Dellacona: I think what you're talking about is so important that we 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:31.619 are in the midst of this crisis, right? 00:22:31.619 --> 00:22:35.564 We have whatever, there are so many different monikers, the silver tsunami, 00:22:35.564 --> 00:22:37.304 the caregiving crisis, all of these 00:22:37.524 --> 00:22:37.944 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Mm-hmm. 00:22:38.664 --> 00:22:41.244 Candace Dellacona: You're right that it is a societal problem 00:22:41.244 --> 00:22:44.514 and we have a government that doesn't help us with the solutions. 00:22:44.814 --> 00:22:49.914 So people like you and me and all of the people that we have on these podcasts, 00:22:50.274 --> 00:22:55.094 we're hoping to provide the resources so that we can, as a society, put our 00:22:55.094 --> 00:22:59.564 own patchwork, our own quilt together of experts to make it maybe a little 00:22:59.564 --> 00:23:01.634 easier for people that come behind us. 00:23:01.764 --> 00:23:03.474 'cause nobody else is helping us. 00:23:04.229 --> 00:23:04.739 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah. 00:23:04.789 --> 00:23:10.039 I think that's what the, that's what the issue is, is you know, the scales 00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:16.549 fall from your eyes beginning with, oh, Medicare doesn't pay for long term health. 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:16.889 Candace Dellacona: Yeah. 00:23:17.754 --> 00:23:21.684 Vanessa Grigoriadis: And once you realize that it's just the beginning 00:23:21.709 --> 00:23:22.629 Candace Dellacona: falls apart from there. 00:23:22.734 --> 00:23:27.324 Vanessa Grigoriadis: journey that you have to go on, and I'm lucky you know 00:23:27.324 --> 00:23:30.054 that I am a journalist, so I investigate. 00:23:30.054 --> 00:23:30.924 I find things out. 00:23:30.924 --> 00:23:33.864 I like nothing more than to like master a topic. 00:23:34.239 --> 00:23:41.349 But the amount of paperwork that I then have to do on the other side is just, 00:23:41.349 --> 00:23:44.439 I was earlier today I am gonna look at this 'cause it happens to be right here. 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:49.359 I, am taking power of attorney on a, an account of fidelity as one does. 00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:52.749 And then I was planning to transfer some money and they said. 00:23:53.484 --> 00:23:58.914 But we don't have your standing transfer instructions document, which needs a 00:23:58.914 --> 00:24:01.794 silver medallion, which is a notary. 00:24:01.884 --> 00:24:07.764 And I'm like, when we did those forms six weeks ago, that needed 00:24:07.764 --> 00:24:10.944 to be notarized, did you wanna tell me that there was another form that 00:24:10.944 --> 00:24:13.679 would need to be notarized before I made changes to the account? 00:24:13.794 --> 00:24:17.704 That clearly was what I was trying to do, so it's just like it's form 00:24:17.704 --> 00:24:19.474 after form, after form, after form. 00:24:19.474 --> 00:24:22.514 And for high net worth individuals, I get it. 00:24:22.514 --> 00:24:25.544 There's ways, your investment banker, whoever it is, is 00:24:25.544 --> 00:24:28.484 gonna glide this path for you. 00:24:28.784 --> 00:24:31.214 But in truth, it's still a rocky path. 00:24:31.214 --> 00:24:34.634 Like you're still gonna have to sign stuff and you're still 00:24:34.634 --> 00:24:37.574 gonna have to deal with much more stuff than you want to deal with. 00:24:37.574 --> 00:24:41.594 And because of scammers, obviously every bank has created like 00:24:41.594 --> 00:24:44.144 17 layers of authentication. 00:24:44.774 --> 00:24:46.784 Candace Dellacona: Which we call roadblocks, but No, you're 00:24:46.859 --> 00:24:49.229 Vanessa Grigoriadis: There's roadblocks every place you go. 00:24:49.229 --> 00:24:52.699 So you're basically in this, you are already in a game of Tetris when 00:24:52.699 --> 00:24:55.499 you're a full-time employee and a mom. 00:24:55.499 --> 00:24:59.399 You're already just, every 15 minutes is so meaningful to you. 00:24:59.399 --> 00:25:04.769 You're trying to pack so many things into it, but you add in caring for an older 00:25:04.769 --> 00:25:07.739 person, which I describe as like having a toddler that doesn't live with you, 00:25:08.429 --> 00:25:13.584 and then you add the financial piece, which if you as I explained, maybe at 00:25:13.614 --> 00:25:19.854 too much length earlier, I have all this stuff that is complex psychologically 00:25:19.854 --> 00:25:25.494 from my parents around finances because they really taught me like the number 00:25:25.494 --> 00:25:28.404 one thing you need to know about money is to never think about money. 00:25:28.584 --> 00:25:29.994 That's the number one thing you need. 00:25:29.994 --> 00:25:32.184 Well, it turns out you need a lot of money to never think about 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.599 Candace Dellacona: You absolutely do and you need to have all the 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:36.189 right people to help you with that 00:25:36.459 --> 00:25:37.719 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Right, exactly. 00:25:37.719 --> 00:25:41.259 So it's like now I have a situation where, okay, we've got a good 00:25:41.259 --> 00:25:45.969 thing going with my mom at home, but are we gonna need Medicaid? 00:25:45.969 --> 00:25:47.979 Or is she gonna move into a place? 00:25:47.979 --> 00:25:52.149 Is it better for her to move into a place? 00:25:52.179 --> 00:25:58.519 I know it's better for me, but that question, every question around, and I'll 00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:01.159 speak to middle class and above, like. 00:26:01.579 --> 00:26:05.179 How do you manage this person's money so it throws off enough money that they can 00:26:05.179 --> 00:26:11.189 stay at home with a social security, which doesn't get you far in 20 25, 20 26, plus 00:26:11.239 --> 00:26:16.789 so now you're, you basically, you're just involved in a enormous math equation, 00:26:16.849 --> 00:26:23.119 and the math equation is what do I have to fill in so that she can live 00:26:23.929 --> 00:26:27.469 in a way that I feel really good about, that I know she'll be cared for. 00:26:28.384 --> 00:26:30.244 That doesn't require me to quit my job. 00:26:30.294 --> 00:26:35.274 Another moment when the scales really fell from my eyes is, and I should have 00:26:35.274 --> 00:26:39.604 called you up, is a friend of mine said, you need to meet this estate attorney. 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:45.329 He really helped me and I went and talked to him and he had looked me up 00:26:45.329 --> 00:26:49.639 beforehand and knew I was, a writer of some note, and he said, Vanessa, I 00:26:49.639 --> 00:26:55.189 wanna help you because I want my girls to be able to look at somebody like 00:26:55.189 --> 00:26:58.069 you and for you to still have a job. 00:26:58.699 --> 00:27:04.639 For you not to have to quit your job so that you have to live in totally the 00:27:04.639 --> 00:27:08.269 domestic and financial sphere dealing with your parents and dealing with your mom. 00:27:08.749 --> 00:27:13.309 And I was like, oh my God, I didn't even know we were gonna be, was 00:27:13.309 --> 00:27:15.469 this conversation gonna go there? 00:27:15.469 --> 00:27:16.909 Is my life going there? 00:27:17.089 --> 00:27:20.569 I don't even know who I am if I'm not a professional person, 00:27:20.809 --> 00:27:23.909 Candace Dellacona: i, that's such an important point and I can see, 00:27:24.009 --> 00:27:28.979 how impactful that is and I've been there, Vanessa, where you really lose 00:27:28.979 --> 00:27:33.569 yourself in the process because it's so much and because we're starved for 00:27:33.569 --> 00:27:40.154 resources and we are also frustrated and sad and trying to figure out 00:27:40.154 --> 00:27:42.044 our path and people aren't helping. 00:27:42.044 --> 00:27:46.404 And I think even for those who have resources, that feeling 00:27:46.464 --> 00:27:48.594 of overwhelm is universal. 00:27:49.224 --> 00:27:54.864 I don't care if you have endless resources, it is still you stepping into 00:27:54.914 --> 00:27:58.574 someone else's life and trying to figure out what the best thing is for them. 00:27:58.574 --> 00:28:02.384 And it is such a responsibility, but in many ways, and I don't mean this 00:28:02.384 --> 00:28:03.854 in a negative way, but it is a burden. 00:28:04.404 --> 00:28:04.644 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah. 00:28:05.159 --> 00:28:08.699 Candace Dellacona: And so what you're doing is so important Vanessa, because you 00:28:08.699 --> 00:28:14.729 are yet another person in the very small pool of people who are recognizing people 00:28:14.729 --> 00:28:16.949 like us and trying to make it easier. 00:28:17.609 --> 00:28:22.889 And creating a podcast like So Your Parents Are Old from a place of humor and 00:28:23.189 --> 00:28:28.559 bringing in the experts and even bringing in those people who are well known. 00:28:29.284 --> 00:28:31.744 That are dealing with these sorts of things. 00:28:31.894 --> 00:28:37.204 Bradley Cooper made an amazing documentary on caregiving and a lot of people 00:28:37.204 --> 00:28:41.944 think someone like him wouldn't have to deal with the burden of trying to 00:28:41.944 --> 00:28:45.304 figure out all of the things you talk about, like a medallion guarantee. 00:28:45.729 --> 00:28:51.789 And what Medicare does, but yet here we are and we have to help ourselves and 00:28:51.849 --> 00:28:54.849 people similarly situated, figure it out. 00:28:54.879 --> 00:28:57.369 And it is an incredible responsibility. 00:28:57.369 --> 00:28:59.439 You're killing it if nobody has told you that. 00:29:00.854 --> 00:29:01.244 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Thank you. 00:29:01.244 --> 00:29:01.994 I appreciate that. 00:29:01.994 --> 00:29:04.694 But no, I think people will be talking about this more and more. 00:29:04.694 --> 00:29:08.714 You can even see the New York Times is starting to run a lot more 00:29:08.714 --> 00:29:11.174 op-eds about you're aging parents. 00:29:11.174 --> 00:29:12.794 What is this really like? 00:29:12.794 --> 00:29:15.104 People are starting to be honest about the amount of money. 00:29:15.104 --> 00:29:15.734 What is this? 00:29:15.734 --> 00:29:19.184 This is $3,500 a week to take care of this person. 00:29:19.754 --> 00:29:23.194 I do think, the silver tsunami are just demographically. 00:29:23.314 --> 00:29:27.544 It's so extraordinary what's about to happen with the boomers aging. 00:29:28.614 --> 00:29:33.954 And adult children are really gonna have a lot of the same wake up call 00:29:34.014 --> 00:29:40.644 that I have, and I only wish that you could put together, like you need 00:29:40.644 --> 00:29:44.154 to put together a YouTube channel that tells everybody what to do. 00:29:44.154 --> 00:29:48.194 Because I can imagine from your perspective, it's oh my God, I'm not gonna 00:29:48.194 --> 00:29:53.284 explain this all again to a new client because you're seriously taking people 00:29:53.284 --> 00:29:58.644 who are uneducated about this, and they need this help so badly, and they're 00:29:58.644 --> 00:30:05.704 coming to you and you gotta bring them from like zero to a hundred really quick. 00:30:05.734 --> 00:30:06.514 Candace Dellacona: It's true. 00:30:06.514 --> 00:30:06.904 Yeah. 00:30:06.904 --> 00:30:09.574 But listen, that's why we're calling it the Survival Guide, right? 00:30:09.574 --> 00:30:14.164 Because we're trying to create the guide that we didn't have and 00:30:14.164 --> 00:30:17.194 provide the resources and the people and the information and the data. 00:30:17.409 --> 00:30:20.919 All of the information that we didn't have so that it makes it easier 00:30:20.929 --> 00:30:22.879 for the others that come after us. 00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:27.209 And hopefully, it will be addressed as a society one day and maybe we will 00:30:27.209 --> 00:30:30.359 have the government infrastructure that will help pay for things like this. 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:34.799 Because I can speak for so many families out there, it's the largest cost after 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:36.329 college, which is long-term care. 00:30:36.869 --> 00:30:40.029 And we don't have great solutions here in the US. 00:30:40.044 --> 00:30:44.414 I think that, one of the saving graces is technology, and I've had 00:30:44.414 --> 00:30:48.944 some amazing people on the podcast to highlight how technology can help 00:30:48.974 --> 00:30:53.204 and hopefully we'll have some big brains and generations to come that 00:30:53.204 --> 00:30:54.674 will help us find those solutions. 00:30:54.674 --> 00:30:57.194 But in the interim, Vanessa, you and me. 00:30:57.529 --> 00:30:57.769 Vanessa Grigoriadis: Yeah, 00:30:57.909 --> 00:30:59.649 Candace Dellacona: And it's our podcast 00:31:00.269 --> 00:31:00.849 Vanessa Grigoriadis: that's right. 00:31:01.569 --> 00:31:04.659 Candace Dellacona: we're providing folks with some great information. 00:31:05.029 --> 00:31:08.859 But I'm so happy to have you here today with me. 00:31:08.859 --> 00:31:12.549 I am a novice podcaster and you certainly are somebody who is 00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:14.919 entrenched in the world, and I really 00:31:15.024 --> 00:31:16.254 Vanessa Grigoriadis: You are doing great. 00:31:16.794 --> 00:31:18.264 You are doing amazing. 00:31:18.264 --> 00:31:18.864 I love it. 00:31:18.864 --> 00:31:20.314 Thank you so much for having me on. 00:31:20.314 --> 00:31:20.694 I appreciate it. 00:31:20.834 --> 00:31:21.454 Candace Dellacona: My pleasure. 00:31:21.609 --> 00:31:24.939 And so for everyone out there, we'll have all of the information 00:31:24.969 --> 00:31:27.249 on So Your Parents Are Old. 00:31:27.249 --> 00:31:28.509 I want you to tune in. 00:31:28.509 --> 00:31:32.769 I want you to email to Vanessa, give her ideas of people you wanna 00:31:32.769 --> 00:31:36.969 hear from, because she's definitely listening, so we really appreciate it. 00:31:37.719 --> 00:31:38.049 All right. 00:31:38.169 --> 00:31:39.009 Thanks so much. 00:31:43.607 --> 00:31:47.147 Don't forget to subscribe to the Sandwich Generation Survival Guide. 00:31:47.267 --> 00:31:51.377 A new episode drops each month, and if you're enjoying it, please don't forget 00:31:51.377 --> 00:31:55.397 to leave me a five star review and share with your fellow sandwich generation 00:31:55.397 --> 00:32:00.912 members for a complete listing of past podcast episodes, you can check out any 00:32:00.912 --> 00:32:08.232 podcast platform, or you can head to my website at www.sandwichgenerationlaw.com. 00:32:08.592 --> 00:32:09.492 Thanks for listening.