00:00:00:01 - 00:00:07:15 Chris Many U.S. travelers have heard of Virgin Atlantic, but have no idea what Virgin Red actually is, or how the whole Virgin ecosystem fits together. 00:00:07:15 - 00:00:16:13 Katie So I sat down with Andrea Burchett, chief loyalty officer at Virgin Group, to find out how it all works and to dig into some data from their inaugural points index report. 00:00:16:14 - 00:00:24:04 Chris We're talking Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Voyages, Virgin Hotels and a loyalty program that's seeing an 18% jump in redemptions year over year. 00:00:24:07 - 00:00:40:02 Katie But first, we'll talk about a new lounge at JFK and how one new Hyatt hotel is canceling reservations with no warning. It's all coming up now on the Upgraded Points podcast. 00:00:40:04 - 00:00:43:11 Chris Hey, I'm Chris. Welcome to the Upgraded Points podcast. 00:00:43:11 - 00:01:04:19 Katie And I'm Katie and today we are talking about a new lounge at JFK, some Hyatt hotel shenanigans. And then we are talking all about Virgin and Virgin Red. Before we get to all of that, a freeway that you can support the show is by leaving us a five star rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, wherever you're watching or listening. 00:01:04:23 - 00:01:19:00 Katie It gives you a chance to tell us what you think and helps others find the show to. Plus, if you want to send comments or questions, you can reach us at podcasts at Upgraded Points. Let's start with the lounge news. Chris, what's going on? 00:01:19:02 - 00:01:32:02 Chris Yeah. Later this year, American Airlines is opening a new provisions by Admirals Club at JFK. This is going to be a 37 square foot grab and go concept. Yes I'm excited as well. 00:01:32:03 - 00:01:34:08 Katie 3737. 00:01:34:14 - 00:01:36:04 Chris I say 37 what. 00:01:36:06 - 00:01:37:16 Katie 37ft²? I thought. 00:01:37:16 - 00:01:41:13 Chris You said 37. Yeah. You're going to just stick your hand in and. 00:01:41:13 - 00:01:43:00 Katie Grab 3700. 00:01:43:01 - 00:02:08:09 Chris This is going to be a 30 700 square foot grab and go concept that will offer passengers premium food and beverage options without committing to a full sit down lounge visit. And Katie, you're going to like this part because the centerpiece of this bar is going to be American's first dedicated barista bar. It's going to serve. Made to order Lavazza hot and cold coffee drinks. 00:02:08:10 - 00:02:34:22 Chris I approve. Yeah, I knew you like that. There will also be a self-service station with other food and drinks, as well as snacks, pastries in the morning and some other grab and go options during the day. So this the location of this lounge or pop up is going to be notable because it's in concourse B, which currently only houses the Greenwich Lounge, the Soho Lounge and the Chelsea Lounge, which are all very nice. 00:02:34:22 - 00:02:53:18 Chris But if you don't have a lead status or you aren't flying on an eligible ticket, you will need to trek underground to concourse C to find the Admirals Club. So this is going to be a nice option for those with the city executive card. Or if someone just doesn't have the right credentials to get into one of those bigger lounges. 00:02:53:20 - 00:03:03:03 Katie Yeah, I've never been to one of these, but I'm really excited to try it out, so we'll have to check it out when I'm at JFK. When was that opening? Do we have an opening date yet, or is it just later this year? 00:03:03:04 - 00:03:16:05 Chris Yeah, there's no official date. Some people are saying December and the press release actually made it sound like it was already open, which is not the case. So maybe by the time this air is, we'll have a date and we'll put it in the show notes. But as of now, no. 00:03:16:10 - 00:03:48:13 Katie Okay. So before we get into Virgin, read our Virgin Read discussion, I needed to tell you about my experience with the Hyatt Regency Rome. If you are on the Hyatt threads in Reddit, you probably know what I'm going to talk about. So this is a hotel that was supposed to open last fall. It is still not open. And basically what's happening is that the opening keeps getting pushed back, and they're waiting till the last minute to cancel people's reservations. 00:03:48:14 - 00:04:12:03 Katie So I have been booked at this hotel for stay in August, and I've heard about this a few months ago, so I knew this was coming, but I left my reservation there just because I wanted to see what would happen. Because a lot of people on Reddit were reporting getting an email, you know, a couple weeks ahead of time saying, oh, yeah, we're not going to be open to bad, which is a big problem when you think you have a hotel reservation and then you don't. 00:04:12:05 - 00:04:34:09 Katie So I got an email on July 1st telling me that my August 15th reservation would be canceled. But the email was kind of funny. It said I had two options. I had till July 8th to cancel the reservation, or I could move my booking. And then the next sentence it said, we already canceled your booking. So I was like, okay. 00:04:34:12 - 00:04:55:14 Katie Interesting move. Yeah, yeah. So I haven't gotten my points back yet, which is a little concerning. In the email I got, there was no offer of compensation or rebooking. Now, I know because I've been on the Reddit threads that they are offering rebooking to. I think most people, some people are reporting that they haven't been able to get it. 00:04:55:14 - 00:05:24:21 Katie So I responded and said, you know, unacceptable. I need, I need, you know, to be rebooked somewhere else to see what they say now. Like I said, I already have another reservation because I knew this was coming. Right now it is scheduled to open on September 1st. Points bookings are not available until October, but a word of warning if you have a reservation scheduled at this hotel, probably any time this year, book something else because I have zero confidence that this hotel is going to open anytime soon. 00:05:24:21 - 00:05:58:07 Katie It's already been since last fall and it keeps getting pushed back like in month chunks. So if you have an upcoming reservation, be cautious. I probably wouldn't make a new booking at this hotel until next year, but I just wanted to mention it because it's being handled so poorly and I don't know if it's the specific ownership of this particular hotel, or if it's Hyatt Corporate or a little bit of both, but it's not being handled well at all, and it's going to leave a lot of people in a really tough situation with a trip to Rome with no hotel. 00:05:58:07 - 00:06:00:23 Katie So yeah, I just I just wanted to mention it. 00:06:00:23 - 00:06:05:11 Chris And have you been in touch with World of Hyatt? Are you dealing directly with the hotel? 00:06:05:13 - 00:06:29:13 Katie I so it's it's unclear. The email came from not a specific Hyatt Rome email. It was like a customer service guest services email at Hyatt, but it's unclear. So I was waiting to get that email until I sent out, you know, an email to Hyatt corporate. So I'll probably do that in the next few days and I'll let you know. 00:06:29:13 - 00:06:33:01 Katie But it's just it's being handled really, really poorly. 00:06:33:02 - 00:06:54:13 Chris That's frustrating. And the only experience I have with something similar is I had booked a hotel. It was a Hyatt. This is years ago in London that was supposed to open and didn't, and they proactively booked me and I think it was the High Regency, but they actually paid for that stay as well. So I got my points back and they booked me a calm stay, which I think is the proper way to handle it. 00:06:54:13 - 00:06:58:00 Chris But apparently that is the opposite of what's happening with you. 00:06:58:00 - 00:07:22:14 Katie Yeah, I think some people are getting sort of that comped stay, but not easily. And from what I've read on Reddit, it's not it's not unanimous across the board. So let us know if you were in the same situation, you had a different experience. You can reach out at podcast at Upgraded Points. I'd love to hear you know what happened with your situation, but it's it's it's not amazing. 00:07:22:16 - 00:07:30:03 Katie But word of warning don't don't book hotels when they when they're going to be open, you know short soon. 00:07:30:05 - 00:07:47:08 Chris So yeah there's some risk. There is always. Yeah. All right. Well let's take a break. And when we come back, we will jump into Katie's interview with Andrea Burch and learn all about Virgin read. 00:07:47:10 - 00:07:54:00 Chris Hey, real quick before we jump back in, if you're listening to this podcast, you're exactly the kind of person we built our free newsletter for. 00:07:54:01 - 00:08:04:05 Katie We break down the best credit card offers, transfer bonuses, award alerts, and travel news that actually matters. No fluff, no spam, just the stuff we text a friend if something big dropped. 00:08:04:06 - 00:08:09:03 Chris A lot of the deals we talk about on the show don't last long. The newsletter is where we flag those fast. 00:08:09:03 - 00:08:21:10 Katie It's totally free and you can sign up at upgraded points. 00:08:21:12 - 00:08:42:18 Katie Okay. Welcome back. We're here with Andrea Burchett is who is the chief loyalty officer at Virgin Group. And she oversees Virgin Red, the loyalty program that connects Virgin Atlantic, Virgin Voyages, Virgin hotels all under one points currency. Welcome, Andrea. Thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. 00:08:42:20 - 00:08:46:12 Andrea I would say my pleasure, Kate. It's great and I'm pleased you could have me. 00:08:46:13 - 00:09:05:16 Katie Yeah. Awesome. So let's start with what is virgin red? Because I think a lot of us travelers, we've heard of Virgin Atlantic and many people are very familiar with Virgin Atlantic, but they don't really understand what Virgin Red is and how it all fits together. Can you give us a quick overview of that so everyone kind of understands what we're talking about? 00:09:05:17 - 00:09:29:17 Andrea Yeah. No problem. Yes. It's quite new to be honest, given the length of history around loyalty programs generally. So we launched Virgin Red in the US only a few years ago, and the kind of brainchild around it was to really create the connecting tissue between all of those Virgin brands that you mentioned. So obviously Virgin Voyages hotels, voyages at Virgin as well. 00:09:29:17 - 00:09:35:09 Andrea So it's really the red thread that connects that through the currency of virgin points. 00:09:35:11 - 00:09:44:18 Katie Okay. And how do Virgin Points work. Is it is it one currency that can be used everywhere, or are there different currencies for different types of of the business? 00:09:44:21 - 00:10:09:22 Andrea Well, I'm sure all your listeners are very time time poor. So we've made everyone's lives and it's literally just one currency that's used across the whole virgin ecosystem. So we have like 45 million customers of Virgin. And within Virgin Red itself, we have 4 million customers. So they can pick up their points whether they go. So they go on a void or cruise, or they take the credit card out or even earn on some everyday treats. 00:10:10:01 - 00:10:13:16 Andrea It's all the single currency of Virgin Points. 00:10:13:18 - 00:10:26:13 Katie That's great. So. So customers can earn points through, like you said, flights, cruises, hotels, using the credit card. It's all the same type of point. And those are the same points that can be redeemed across the board. 00:10:26:15 - 00:10:41:06 Andrea Yeah, absolutely. And the best way to find out is to go to Virgin Red. We have a Virgin Red app and web. So if they go there they'll get the full shop window of everything that Virgin has to offer and all the ways they can both earn their points and redeem their points to awesome. 00:10:41:06 - 00:10:53:18 Katie Awesome. Okay, so let's talk about the Virgin Red Points Index report. You guys just launched the inaugural version of this. What is it and why was this something that Virgin wanted to put out there? 00:10:53:23 - 00:11:20:10 Andrea I think consumer behaviors change all the time. So when you think about loyalty. But first, I find it really fascinating that Gen Z particularly are actually probably one of the biggest users of points and also kind of millennials. So sort of 67% of Gen Z, I a member of loyalty programs, a 63% of millennials. So we really wanted to keep our hands on a pulse of what's happening in customers minds. 00:11:20:10 - 00:11:38:22 Andrea Obviously, a lot going on in the market at a macro level and cost of living. So understanding that, but also understanding how people want to engage and the type of experience they want again, in that younger generation, they're so tech savvy that actually they they need some emotional time out. And, and points is great for that isn't it. 00:11:38:22 - 00:12:01:07 Andrea It gives them an opportunity to go and have an experience and go on holiday with their friends and family and really save up for that sort of magical lifetime kind of journey or experience they want to go on. So what we've seen certainly within Virgin Red is about an 8%, 18% increase in people using points. It's fair to say that still flights are the predominant points. 00:12:01:08 - 00:12:23:02 Andrea Redemption. We see about 86% of our points being redeemed on flights. But there's a growing trend. We've seen consumers kind of redeeming their on voyages, as I say, in hotels. But, yeah, I think our reason for doing it every year is just to have that pulse check on, on where consumer sentiment is and what we can do more to improve the Virgin red experience. 00:12:23:02 - 00:12:36:01 Andrea Because whenever one and done, we're always looking to respond to the needs of our customers who are very adventurous, very forward thinking, but also very time poor. So how do we make that experience really exceptional for them? 00:12:36:03 - 00:12:55:14 Katie Yeah, absolutely. And you said most most customers are redeeming their points on flights. I think I read what Virgin Atlantic is number one. And I think Delta is number two for flight redemptions. Do you see redemptions to hotels and voyages for example, increasing, or do you see a continuing trend that people really are focusing on? 00:12:55:14 - 00:13:19:07 Andrea Flights voyages has been amazing since we launched, you know, and it's a different price point. Obviously you're going on a 7 or 10 day cruise, but you know, our secret sauce is our experience. Our frontline crew on board are exceptional. You know, it's an all inclusive price. It's amazing dining experience, entertainment. It's really like a hotel on board, but everything's surrounded around you. 00:13:19:07 - 00:13:40:06 Andrea So we see a lot of repeat business on our cruises once. I think people have been once and been immersed in that real virgin magic. They just keep coming back time and time again. And and Sydney with our hotels, we have our hotels across the US in like Dallas, Nashville, New York, but we also have a limited edition range, which is to me feels like the real money can't buy things. 00:13:40:06 - 00:14:07:05 Andrea So going on Necker Island, which is obviously where Richard is quite often hanging out. But we've got ski shallows in in Switzerland, so we've got some really aspirational things that the benefit of points is you feel like you're treating yourself. You can earn through the kind of everyday behaviors of your credit card spend and your grocery spend. But the magic comes when you translate that into an experience, either to treat yourself or your friends or your family. 00:14:07:05 - 00:14:29:01 Andrea So I certainly love using points as a little bit of a discount off things too. So sometimes I pay with full points, sometimes I pay with cash in points, but it just helps you potentially stay longer, or go further, or treat yourself to a nicer cabin or a nice a hotel room. So we're seeing real growth of people using points as well, not just on flights, but also building a package. 00:14:29:01 - 00:14:45:06 Andrea So we have Virgin Atlantic, but also their book, their hotel as part of that package, or a virgin gift to have an experience when they're there or even doing a staycation. You don't actually have to get on a plane. You know, the benefit is we've got lots to offer if you choose to stay at home to. 00:14:45:07 - 00:15:18:11 Katie When I was reading the Point Index, it seemed that people are really leaning into using points for those bucket list trips, those big destinations, those big voyages that maybe they couldn't otherwise have afforded, which I think is I mean, that's why I use points to get those amazing experiences. So in your in the report, I saw that Hawaii in Rome were on the top of that bucket list dream destination, but London and New York were on the top of where points are actually getting redeemed. 00:15:18:13 - 00:15:43:08 Katie What explains that gap between the fantasy trip and the real one? And are programs like Virgin Red and the the Chase the deal mentality that we talk about sometimes, and I know in the points of Miles world, it's a very real mentality. Is that really shaping the way people are traveling? And they're sort of, like we said, chasing the deal versus maybe what they would choose otherwise. 00:15:43:10 - 00:15:44:08 Katie That makes sense. 00:15:44:11 - 00:16:09:22 Andrea I think. Yeah. No, I get that. That's really interesting point, Katie. I think we're learning quite a lot actually, in the last 12, 18 months, because we move Virgin Atlantic to a proposition where, say, every single fly is available for points. So it's really interesting. You know, a lot of programs steer you towards certain inventory or only make certain inventory available for points, whereas we literally if it's available for cash, it's available for points. 00:16:10:00 - 00:16:30:22 Andrea So yeah. And and it's, it's landed really well in terms of customers having access to everything. So we're seeing some changing patterns. But I think top destinations change every year to be honest. You know, some people kind of talk to friends and family. Lots of referrals. So it could be Rome this year, it may be Seville next year in Spain. 00:16:30:22 - 00:16:55:06 Andrea So I think I mean, New York's always going to be a solid and London kind of solid route ultimately in terms of where people want to go. And I think, you know, looking at customer travel behavior now, it's really changed around the experience first and then how you're going to get their second, which I think is fascinating. We're seeing that again, certainly in the Gen Z and millennials, they're much more around what constant do I want to go to or what festival. 00:16:55:06 - 00:17:12:19 Andrea And then it's about what's the best way to get there rather than traditionally. And certainly in my generation it was like, right where we're going to go here, and then we'll figure it out when we get there, what we're going to do. So I think you've just got to be really responsive to different people's needs, and that's why we try and make everything we have available. 00:17:13:00 - 00:17:40:12 Andrea Our points don't expire. So it's not a question of constantly chasing to collect points. It's like if you've got them you've they're well earned and therefore they yours to keep. So yeah, for us it's about giving as much choice as possible whether you want to have a staycation, whether you want that aspirational reward, whether you want to go and earn points shopping at Macy's, you know, we have an online retail shopping environment as well, where we've got some really household brands that are well known in the US as well. 00:17:40:12 - 00:17:55:13 Andrea So we do gyms. So we've recently launched with Barry's. If you want to go and redeem your points and go to the gym. So it's kind of how do we appeal to your, you know, your everyday life as well as your super treat life where you go on that lifetime holiday to. 00:17:55:15 - 00:18:15:08 Katie Yeah. What are the most unique ways that people can use their virgin points that maybe they don't know about? Like using them for the berries? Jim, I didn't realize until I was looking through the website yesterday. Are there other things like that that you wouldn't necessarily expect to be able to redeem Virgin red points for? 00:18:15:10 - 00:18:33:11 Andrea Wow. I mean, the list is endless to be honest. So you can go well watching, you know, you've got your classic trips in New York where you can obviously Empire State Building all the usual things, but we also do a tour around some of the artwork for instances in New York that might not be so familiar to you. 00:18:33:11 - 00:18:54:10 Andrea So there's a full spectrum. We got 5000 different types of gifts that you can have through our partnership with, with Virgin Gifts in, in the US as well. So honestly, I would really it's like anything isn't it. But just if you've got five minutes, just check out the Virgin red out because they're generally is something for everyone and there's things you can do on your own, as well as things that you can do with friends. 00:18:54:11 - 00:19:12:04 Andrea Because I think sometimes we just like to treat ourselves, don't we? So I know I'm very good at the odd spa day here in the heron saying, you know what, I'm going to just pamper me. And then my daughters, when they're when they're good, I let them come along and pamper them too. So, you know, there's there's real there's so much option and it could be a physical treat. 00:19:12:04 - 00:19:29:23 Andrea You might say, well, I don't go and buy something in Macy's or I'm going to go and book something through our Booking.com relationship or Nike. You know, we've literally got kind of the brands that would be very familiar to your listeners, but also some really exceptionally different things in there. And, you know, obviously the most extreme is kind of the likes of going on a safari. 00:19:30:00 - 00:19:49:11 Andrea We have two hotel places that are very luxurious in South Africa. And obviously we've got amazing property in Morocco as well. So, you know, we all have different views of how we like to treat. You know, sometimes it's the little things that matter, and sometimes you want to go for the big experience and save up for that too. 00:19:49:12 - 00:20:17:08 Katie I love the freedom that points give you, the freedom to use them however you want, whether that's, like you said, a safari or a day at the spa. And I love that. That points kind of open that whole world up and can be tailored to each individual person. Okay, so fun question. If you had a stack of Virgin points 100,000, 200,000, 300,000, whatever, what trip would you book or what would you use? 00:20:17:08 - 00:20:23:08 Katie Would you do 100 spa days or would you book, you know, a luxurious trip? 00:20:23:10 - 00:20:26:08 Andrea I to be honest. Yeah. What would I do? 00:20:26:09 - 00:20:29:03 Katie Or would you save them for Necker Island? 00:20:29:05 - 00:20:50:10 Andrea I know, well, I'm still waiting. The invite from Richard. You know, sometimes it's a little thing. I tend to use my points across everything. So, you know, sometimes it is just a treat in a spa tree. And that makes me. I get the good field factor. It's interesting, actually, because I get the good feel factor. Whatever I do, I think I just feel like a savvy consumer. 00:20:50:12 - 00:21:10:20 Andrea We have the Virgin credit card, Virgin Red credit card in the US, and I'm going to spend my money on that anyway. But we have some great benefits on that card where you can, you know, and it's the first credit card I know. And in the US where it's one card but three different Virgin companies. So one year I can decide to take the voucher to upgrade my flight. 00:21:11:01 - 00:21:27:22 Andrea The second year I might say to, you know what, I'm not going to fly, but I want to go and stay in one of our hotels in Nashville, Dallas, Vegas, wherever. I'm going to actually have a room upgrade. And then there's third year. I might say, well, you know, I'm actually going to go on a Virgin Voyages now and make, you know, take advantage of the benefit to get a bar tab. 00:21:27:22 - 00:21:43:19 Andrea So we try and get, as I say, we try and give people as much choice and and everyone's different aren't they. We're all you know, our customers are massively adventurous. They tend to be ahead of the curve on the most kind of up and coming things. So I get just as much enjoyment on the little things that I do on the huge treats. 00:21:43:19 - 00:22:10:14 Andrea I've been fortunate and stayed on in our property in Morocco, which was absolutely exceptional. But I think for us it's it's not just about the price point, it's about making sure the experience is consistent, whether it's a day out somewhere around New York or a, you know, tall trip somewhere or going on a, you know, an exclusive island, you know, they're all very much, as I say, our secret sauce is absolutely our people. 00:22:10:16 - 00:22:34:00 Andrea And we we very much believe, and I think our index shows, that that emotional human connection is probably more critical now than it ever was. I think we spend so much time with technology, and obviously AI is being adopted by everybody. You know, sometimes you all need a bit of kind of tech downtime. And I think, you know, Virgin can really help you get there and achieve that really quickly. 00:22:34:02 - 00:22:57:19 Katie Yeah, absolutely. So let's let's talk a little bit more about that Virgin Red rewards Mastercard because our audience loves reward credit cards. I was surprised in that point index to see that that is the second biggest way that Americans are earning Virgin points. And I guess that surprised me, because I feel like maybe the American audience doesn't quite understand that card sometimes, even though it can be really valuable. 00:22:58:00 - 00:23:21:08 Katie You had mentioned that there are some perks on the card. What a companion pass, maybe a room upgrade and the bar tab. Can you explain those a little bit more on how a cardholder would earn those? Because that's I think probably I assume a lot of consumers are Americans are saying, why would I have the Virgin card over earning transferable points for the Virgin Red program? 00:23:21:08 - 00:23:25:13 Katie And that, I think, is one of one of the unique features of that card? 00:23:25:15 - 00:23:41:22 Andrea Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first of all, for us, the benefit talking about experience, which, you know, I keep banging on, but it's very critical to us, the fact you can serve as the credit card in the Virgin Red app. I think some of the frustrations I've seen in other loyalty programs is I need an app here for my credit card, and app here for my loyalty program. 00:23:41:22 - 00:24:01:13 Andrea We we really felt it was important to ingest and integrate those two things as one. So not only do you go there to service your credit card, but it enables you to see all things virgin when you go there. But what we offer on the card is, which you won't get anywhere else, is three Virgin Points for every dollar you spend with our Virgin company. 00:24:01:13 - 00:24:28:19 Andrea So whether that's a flight with Virgin Atlantic or a cruise or a hotel stay, you also get double points on spend with dining grocery stores, but also EV charging, which I think is important around sustainability. And then some select streaming and then you have your normal kind of everyday earn. So I think the entry level of any points based credit card is those earn rates, because that's the thing people want to understand to accelerate, but it's more the rewards, as you say. 00:24:28:21 - 00:24:50:09 Andrea So we've made every year the ability for the customer to choose the incentive they want. So if you want to have a flight upgrade, you can opt in for that if you decide. No, actually, this year I want the hotel room upgrade. You could opt for that. Or if you want to go and stay with Go on Virgin Voyages, you can get access to things like bar tabs and things. 00:24:50:09 - 00:25:14:07 Andrea So we're really building on that product and we've got some great proposition ideas in the pipeline as well that will be coming to market to to make it truly feel like Virgin. There's lots of credit cards out there that are transactional, and you can tip your points into a multitude of things, but what you can't own is some of the other assets and recognition elements that we do, and we want to make sure we really recognize you for who you are. 00:25:14:09 - 00:25:21:06 Andrea So it's not just about the booking, the cruise, it's the exceptional spirit we can give you as a card holder on board as well. 00:25:21:08 - 00:25:42:19 Katie Awesome, awesome. So let's let's move over and talk about Virgin Voyages. Partially just because I haven't been on one and I'm dying to go on one. And I've talked to a lot of people, even people who aren't cruise people, and they've all really enjoyed the experience. So I'm excited to try it. At some point I'm going to get my first tattoo on a virgin ship. 00:25:42:21 - 00:26:00:09 Katie I think that's super cool. So that's one of those things I got this in my head and that's going to happen at some point. So I think one of the most unique aspects of the Virgin program is the ability to use points to book a cruise, because that's something that we get asked a lot at upgraded points is, how do I use my points to book a cruise? 00:26:00:09 - 00:26:11:21 Katie And most programs make it pretty difficult and the value isn't amazing. What did the points of Index Report show? Are people actively using their points to book cruises? 00:26:11:23 - 00:26:32:15 Andrea Yeah, 55% of people are using their points to book cruises. So yeah, that's a pretty sizable audience. You know, our Virgin Voyages is is completely unique. It's an adult only cruise. You know, obviously there are other cruise liners out there. But, you know, we really went after a particular segment of customers. And similar to you, I had never been on a cruise till I joined Virgin. 00:26:32:17 - 00:26:51:10 Andrea I was absolutely blown away. I think part of the benefit of cruising is being able to get a taste for different destinations, rather than just committing to ones. The fact that you can hop from one place to another, and we've got loads of excursions available when you're there, but I almost didn't want to get off the ship, to be honest, because the experience on board was so amazing. 00:26:51:12 - 00:27:14:01 Andrea The crew are fantastic, we've got a new route we've recently launched, which is our first ever cruise up to Alaska. So we have a number of cruises across the med. I've been saving up at the moment to go to one in Greece, and it's just the dining experience, so we're an all inclusive price. I think the most frustrating thing for people is you think, you know, it's an expensive purchase. 00:27:14:01 - 00:27:32:15 Andrea So you think, I bought my cruise, off we go and then suddenly have all the add ons. So our dining experience is and kind of just it's not your normal buffet at all. We've got exceptional restaurants, whether you want to stay, whether you want Asian food. I mean, it is a proper kind of but very casual two kind of dining experience. 00:27:32:15 - 00:27:56:20 Andrea But it's the community. When I went on a cruise, I met so many amazing people that were I've literally got their WhatsApp. Now we're friends, so some great areas to go and meet and socialize. We always have the the red night on a particular one. Normally on a Friday night, everyone dresses up in red. You know, there's a nice kind of big party on board, but if you want a quiet space, you go down the other end of the ship and there's a nice cocktail bar. 00:27:56:20 - 00:28:15:08 Andrea So it really has. They really thought, well about their target audience and type of experience they want to create. And we recently launched only two weeks ago, the ability to use your points to buy a $300 bar tab. So that's cool. So yeah, my daughter's literally going in three weeks time. She goes, how many points have you got? 00:28:15:09 - 00:28:32:01 Andrea And do you have enough to get me the bottle? So I'm like, yes, I do. It's fine. So so yes she's well up for that. So it's a it's a very inclusive. So in our price point you get all your food included and being able to use your points not just for the cruise but some of the ancillaries on board makes a big difference. 00:28:32:01 - 00:28:50:07 Andrea And we have gift cards as well. So you can really get there quicker in terms of using points. If it's something you're really into and want to save up for. But honestly, I mean, the tattoos is the amount of people I know that have gone and thought I'd never get a tattoo in. A week later they're like, oh my goodness, Andrea, I've done it. 00:28:50:13 - 00:28:51:01 Katie Yeah, that's going. 00:28:51:01 - 00:28:56:13 Andrea To be. But there's a gym on board as well. So, you know, there really is something for everyone there. 00:28:56:15 - 00:29:25:23 Katie Yeah. So okay so I have to ask this a couple of years ago cruises when I think when they introduced being able to book those with points, we saw some incredible prices like 95,000 points for two people last year. Those kind of skyrocketed. We were seeing in the neighborhood of 300,000. I did look in the last day or two, and I've saw some fortnight cruises for around 160, which is still it's a pretty good deal, but it is a big increase from where we were a couple of years ago. 00:29:26:00 - 00:29:44:11 Katie Are these prices that we're seeing now sort of what we should expect going forward? Are there any opportunities that might be coming up where we'll see some sale prices? Is this, or should people sort of get used to the prices they're seeing now, then, now that they've sort of balanced out between two years ago and maybe last year? 00:29:44:13 - 00:30:01:20 Andrea Yeah, I think there's a situation where there's always, you know, amazing cruises available at fantastic offer prices, and then you've got your kind of always on availability. But some of the things we're talking to the team at Virgin Voyages is about being able to pay for some of the cruises in part points, part cash. So I mentioned gift cards. 00:30:01:21 - 00:30:26:16 Andrea So being able to redeem your points to buy a gift card and then using the gift card towards the cash fair so you could actually get a discount. Equally, some customers have seen the cash fare and purchase points so you can buy points as well. And we do promotions all through the year. So again, you know, I'd say to keep out for some of those bonus campaigns where you get Virgin points for with a 30% bonus, for instance. 00:30:26:16 - 00:30:44:12 Andrea So there's definitely lots of kind of clever ways and smart ways to, to maximize your, your spend in terms of your cash spend, but also how you mix that with your points balance. So yeah, I think as again, it goes back to the flexibility of what we offer. But also how you pay for these things to is also important. 00:30:44:14 - 00:31:04:18 Katie Yeah. And for our listeners out there on upgraded points comm, we always highlight anytime we see a transfer bonus. And I think we just saw one to Virgin. It might have expired very recently. So yeah, keep an eye out for those. Sign up for the newsletter. And we flag those all the time. And it's sometimes that is a good opportunity to buy points for certain things. 00:31:04:18 - 00:31:22:09 Katie So definitely keep that in mind. So let's talk about Virgin Hotels briefly. Our listeners might be surprised to know, I was surprised to know that there are actually more Virgin hotels in the US than the UK. Did I read that right. I was counting them up and I that kind of shocked me. Now it is. 00:31:22:09 - 00:31:23:04 Andrea Still. 00:31:23:06 - 00:31:30:00 Katie It's still a small footprint. Five locations. Are there any plans for new hotels coming up that people should know about? 00:31:30:06 - 00:31:51:04 Andrea There are indeed. We recently announced very exciting news that will be launching in Atlanta and Denver next year. Oh, great. So that's going to be fantastic. As you say, we we have two in I should say GB rather than the UK because it's it covers Edinburgh up in Scotland. But also we have a hotel in London, Shoreditch Hotel which is amazing. 00:31:51:06 - 00:32:07:11 Andrea But yeah in the US we've got Dallas, New York, Vegas, Nashville plans for next year to be in Atlanta and in Denver. So very excited about the openings of those. And they're in perfect locations. I mean, the Atlanta ones. Great is a very all the music and entertainment center is. So it's a really cool location too. 00:32:07:17 - 00:32:29:00 Katie Yeah, I was finally able to I've never stayed at one, but I was able to go into the New York one for an event in January. And it's a really cool property, really, really neat property and great location in New York as well. So for a points traveler, someone, you know, maybe they have transferable points, maybe they have virgin points, why would they want to choose a virgin hotel versus a comparable, you know, a Hyatt or Marriott or something? 00:32:29:00 - 00:32:32:04 Katie What makes that Virgin experience different? 00:32:32:10 - 00:32:56:23 Andrea Yeah, I think as I said, the whole premise of the Virgin brand is about delivering epic journeys and shared experiences. So for us, it's about making sure we treat you as an individual know as a customer, and whether it's just the, you know, Garcia, champagne on arrival or acknowledgment of you in the hotel room, I think, you know, so there's partly about what we can do in those little moments of truth as you're staying in the hotel or flying with us. 00:32:56:23 - 00:33:18:10 Andrea But if you've ever interacted with Virgin and been a customer, the staff are exceptional. So the way in which we support the staff, again, the retention of our staff and on a cruise, which is a pretty tough job to do, is, you know, so they really amplify the Virgin brand and give you that virgin warm welcome. But we also have little moments of truth where we we give you things that money can't buy. 00:33:18:11 - 00:33:37:02 Andrea And we've just recently had a concert in the US which was exclusive tickets, and they sold out within 24 hours. So we're very much kind of how do we surprise and delight and how do we keep pushing ourselves to make sure you walk away with the most incredible experience ever? So it's very much a personalized experience rather than a kind of cookie cutter approach. 00:33:37:02 - 00:34:01:02 Andrea So, you know, we're very much believers of having the person at the door to meet you and help you with your bags, rather than kind of self-service check in. I think that human interaction is just second to none. None. And particularly if you're a regular person staying in a hotel, it's nice as someone acknowledges you, knows your name, knows the name of your kids, and our staff really go out of their way to really understand our customers and kind of meet their needs and exceed them as much as we can. 00:34:01:04 - 00:34:05:19 Katie Is there a separate loyalty program for the hotels or or not? 00:34:05:21 - 00:34:27:15 Andrea Know what we have with hotels and same with Virgin Atlantic is if if you understand from a Lortie perspective, there's the currency element of the program. And then there's the recognition element of a program. So hotels have something called the no. At the moment. So not only do you get the benefits of all of the elements of virgin Red, but you also get all the recognition benefits to and the same with Virgin Atlantic. 00:34:27:16 - 00:34:42:05 Andrea They have flying club, which again, a lot of your listeners will will be very familiar with. And that's the things that give you access to the lounge or the upgrades etc.. So it's really bringing those recognition points together with the reward as one program. 00:34:42:08 - 00:35:05:19 Katie Very nice, very nice. So let's let's wrap it up with talking about, you know, what the future holds for Virgin. One thing I have to ask I know you're not, you know, specific to Virgin Atlantic, we've seen multiple price hikes in taxes and fees on award tickets. And while they might still be amazing deals, some people are very sensitive to taxes and fees cost. 00:35:05:21 - 00:35:25:04 Katie We've seen one way economy awards increased to about 165, all the way up to $700 for upper class, I assume, and maybe, maybe wrongly, that some of this does have to do with increased fuel costs because we're seeing that across the board. Is that something that customers could expect maybe would go down at some point? Do you know any of that? 00:35:25:04 - 00:35:32:13 Katie Is that or is that something we should just kind of get used to and build it into our calculation when we're deciding what award flight to book? 00:35:32:17 - 00:35:51:12 Andrea Yeah, I think I mean, ultimately some of those taxes, fees and charges aren't within the airline's control in terms of social costs and airport charges and things. So, you know, certainly from virgin and antique perspective, they monitor this all the time. And, you know, they've been very responsive, as we've seen during the recent sort of fuel crisis in terms of of what their offerings been. 00:35:51:12 - 00:36:06:06 Andrea But I think for us it's that's the benefit of offering everything for points, isn't it? The fact that if it's available for cash, it's available for points, you know, and as I say, the benefit with points is if you're, you know, if you don't have enough points for the full redemption, you can pay with part points and part cash. 00:36:06:06 - 00:36:24:01 Andrea So there are lots of ways, as I say, to, to mitigate some of those kind of pain points that people may have in terms of prices, you know, and you know, what the airline world is like. And most travel industries, it's very secure. And, you know, things go up and down and, you know, so I think just the consumers, just to keep a watch on some of the great offers that are out there. 00:36:24:02 - 00:36:43:01 Andrea And I think also be flexible with your plans sometimes. I mean, you know, I've looked at Atlantic sometimes and if you want to go to Florida, you could go to Orlando, you could go to Miami. You know, there's different airports that will have different price points in terms of flights. So again, if you can be a bit more flexible with your travel dates or your destination, then you still can get some amazing deals. 00:36:43:02 - 00:37:10:18 Katie Yeah, we talk about flexibility a lot here, and that is one of the keys to getting great value from your points. And I think you mentioned this when we first started talking that sort of younger travelers are able to sort of grasp that flexibility a little bit more, whereas, you know, people of a certain age who are, you know, adults now, they have the mentality of, okay, I'm going to this destination on these dates, and then I'll book my travel after. 00:37:10:18 - 00:37:37:04 Katie Whereas within the points world, you really do need that flexibility. It's like, okay, where's the deal? I'm going to I'm going to go where the deal is, not necessarily exactly where I want to go. And I mean, a lot of times those line up, which is great. But yeah, flexibility is is is key for everything. Okay. So for a US traveler that let's say they've never flown Virgin Atlantic, never gone on a virgin voyage, never stayed at a Virgin hotel. 00:37:37:06 - 00:37:48:07 Katie Give us the sort of, you know, 32nd spiel or whatever of of why they should consider virgin red as a whole, as a US traveler. 00:37:48:09 - 00:37:51:09 Andrea Virgin red in terms of total program. Yeah. 00:37:51:11 - 00:38:03:14 Katie One aspect or the other. But what would you say to someone who's never tried any of the products? Maybe. What should they start with, and why should they consider virgin red versus maybe a program that's more prevalent in the US? 00:38:03:16 - 00:38:22:23 Andrea I think it's is the experience. I mean, Richard is an entrepreneur. The program, you know, Virgin is a brand has existed for 50 years. And for us, you know, we're very different. It's all about the brand for us. And the brand is all about driving that emotional connectivity. You know, for our customers, they are really adventurous. You know, they're looking for quality. 00:38:22:23 - 00:38:40:18 Andrea They're looking for a service. They're looking for those. There's almost like table stakes. And and that's really been our focus. But I think yeah, it's like a no other brand for me. I mean you know I start with like why did I join? You know, not only do I experience it as a customer, but, you know, when you turn out to work every day, you've got to really enjoy your job. 00:38:40:18 - 00:38:58:23 Andrea And I just, you know, I love the fact that Virgin is across two geographies, predominantly in terms of virgin red in the US and UK, but more than reach a sense that, you know, Richard's ethos and the Virgin brand's ethos is always about pushing the boundaries, you know, and the US is really important for us. You know, it's where a lot of our new businesses have started. 00:38:58:23 - 00:39:28:00 Andrea So to your point, Virgin Hotels, Virgin Voyages, Virgin Galactic, you know, we'll give something a shot. You know, we've always had that mentality. So I think, you know, if if you're if you're really up for something different and things like service and experience is important to you and connectivity and communities, it's not a transactional brand at all. And I think that's where Virgin stands out from a lot of other brands where people have, you know, they have a thinner and they have loyalty, but it's a transactional relationship. 00:39:28:00 - 00:39:46:11 Andrea If you talk to Virgin customers, they really want us to succeed. And they are so emotionally in love with the Virgin brand. We often have customers come into our office for customer events and they just come up with ideas, you know? And even when we think that they've had a bad experience, you know, it's how well we we rectified that and what we did in return. 00:39:46:11 - 00:40:04:02 Andrea So it's that real surprise and delight. As I say, it might not necessarily all the big things will be the little things we do. You know, our staff just, you know, our crew go beyond, you know, what I ever thought was humanly possible in terms of the experience that they want to make sure everyone has. So if you've never tried it, and to me, the data speaks for itself. 00:40:04:02 - 00:40:22:13 Andrea The amount of repeat customers we have is exceptional on Virgin Voyages, which is a new brand in, you know, people going back a time and time again staying at our hotels. And so I think, you know, my DNA is customer and, you know, I vote with my customer hat on all the time and always try and do the best buy them. 00:40:22:13 - 00:40:37:22 Andrea But the fact that they keep coming back. So it's almost like a secret sauce that we don't want to many people know about, because it is amazing and we can't grow quick enough to, to, to support them all. But we, you know, we've got huge plans in the future. Obviously barriers as a gym partnership launch really, really recently. 00:40:37:22 - 00:40:55:00 Andrea And we're super excited that partnership. And we've got a whole pipeline of other things, you know, notwithstanding where we started this conversation, we've only been in the US market 3 or 4 years and, you know, a bit of a challenger brand there for because like you say, there's some long standing loyalty programs in the US that people are very familiar with. 00:40:55:00 - 00:40:59:14 Andrea But I promise you, if you try once, you will definitely keep coming back for more. 00:40:59:16 - 00:41:16:18 Katie Awesome. And I like what you said about the secret sauce there, because even as someone I'm familiar with all the brands, I'm, you know, I do this stuff for a living. And even I was still kind of surprised when I really dug into it a little bit more. When I was preparing for this episode, there were things that surprised me. 00:41:16:18 - 00:41:34:17 Katie And you do feel when you're going through the Virgin Red website and looking at the, you know, the cruises and everything, you really do kind of feel that that sense of excitement. And I mean, the branding is second to no one can argue with that. So I know I'm personally excited to get a get on a Virgin voyage and actually stay at one of the hotels. 00:41:34:17 - 00:41:54:00 Katie So thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to talk to us about Virgin Red and everything that that's going on. And I think it's, it's it's an exciting time for the program. Like you said, it's relatively new in the US. So I guessing that over the next couple of years it's going to become a lot more prevalent over here. 00:41:54:02 - 00:41:59:05 Katie Once people start trying it, like you said, once they try it, they'll they'll most likely come back. 00:41:59:07 - 00:42:12:03 Andrea Yeah. And I think the biggest, you know, feedback we get is people feel like they belong, you know, and that's so important to us in terms of, you know, we look at loyalty programs. The way we look at it is you kind of start with the rewards and it's about perks access, you know, the money can't buy things. 00:42:12:03 - 00:42:31:08 Andrea But, you know, our roadmap is to make people feel like they belong. And it's like, oh my God, I feel totally at home here. And you know that belonging to important. And that's where the human connection really comes into play. So, you know, that's kind of our DNA is how do we make you feel like you belong. And as soon as you get on that shit, you just, you know, get that deep decompression, don't you? 00:42:31:08 - 00:42:40:11 Andrea Just think I feel like I belong here, and that's what we want everyone to feel like. When we know when they finally get off the plane or off the cruise, is they have a sense of belonging. 00:42:40:13 - 00:42:58:00 Katie Wonderful, wonderful. Well, again, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to talk to us. And if anyone out there is listening has a question about Virgin Red, Virgin Voyages, Virgin Atlantic or anything else in the points and Miles world, you can always reach us at podcasts at upgraded points, and we will answer your question on a future episode. 00:42:58:00 - 00:43:01:15 Katie And that's going to do it for us this week. We will see you next week.