1
00:00:05,510 --> 00:00:06,800
Welcome back to Count Me In,

2
00:00:06,801 --> 00:00:10,640
IMA's podcast about all things affecting
the accounting and finance world.

3
00:00:11,420 --> 00:00:15,400
I'm your host Mitch Roshong and
this is episode 163 of our series.

4
00:00:16,030 --> 00:00:18,000
Today's featured guest is Stacey Ashley.

5
00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,030
Stacey is a high performance
leadership and coaching expert.

6
00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:23,990
With over 30 years experience,

7
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,990
Stacey has helped thousands of individuals
develop their leadership, competence,

8
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,270
confidence, and credibility.
In this episode,

9
00:00:31,730 --> 00:00:34,510
she speaks with Adam about
creating your own positive mindset,

10
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,070
developing resilience,

11
00:00:36,450 --> 00:00:40,910
and developing accountability in others
to learn more about these leadership

12
00:00:40,910 --> 00:00:44,980
skills, among others, keep listening as
we head over to their conversation now.

13
00:00:51,830 --> 00:00:53,940
Stacey, thanks so much for
coming on today with us.

14
00:00:53,940 --> 00:00:57,020
I really appreciate you joining
our Count Me In audience.

15
00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,100
One of the most important factors of
great leadership is having a positive

16
00:01:01,110 --> 00:01:02,530
mindset and resilience.

17
00:01:03,270 --> 00:01:07,650
So can we talk about how one goes about
creating that mindset and developing

18
00:01:07,651 --> 00:01:08,484
resilience?

19
00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,810
Yeah, and isn't it important right
now after the last couple of years?

20
00:01:13,811 --> 00:01:18,410
I think more than ever. So look, there
are so many things that you can do,

21
00:01:18,411 --> 00:01:22,720
but for me it's kind of like
keep it simple and I think
that there's some really

22
00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,640
straight forward things that
everyone can do for themselves.

23
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,600
There's some people of course kind
of come with a positive mindset,

24
00:01:27,660 --> 00:01:31,320
which is great, so just keep going. But
for those who need a little bit of help,

25
00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:36,360
I think, it's kind of noticing
the little things. So noticing,

26
00:01:36,420 --> 00:01:39,320
what you do well or something
great that happened today.

27
00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:42,360
Really you can be quite
deliberate. You know,

28
00:01:42,630 --> 00:01:46,990
I have a session with my team every week
where we actually deliberately go "what

29
00:01:46,991 --> 00:01:49,550
were our wins this week?" And
we can kind of accumulate them,

30
00:01:50,130 --> 00:01:52,390
and we keep track of them. So
if we're having a bad week,

31
00:01:52,391 --> 00:01:53,550
we can always look back and go,

32
00:01:53,550 --> 00:01:56,630
there was some really good
stuff that we've been doing.

33
00:01:56,631 --> 00:02:01,630
And so let's focus on that and that
kind of keeps us buoyant and positive.

34
00:02:01,631 --> 00:02:04,180
But I think the other one,

35
00:02:04,181 --> 00:02:07,460
that's really important is just to
remind yourself of all of the incredible

36
00:02:09,221 --> 00:02:12,100
resources you have and the strengths
and the great things you've done in the

37
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,740
past. And I know a lot of
the clients that I work with,

38
00:02:14,780 --> 00:02:17,860
I kind of get them to journal it,
even if they're not big on journaling,

39
00:02:17,861 --> 00:02:21,020
but just to start to keep a
little bit of a track again.

40
00:02:21,021 --> 00:02:23,500
Once a day or once a week of, you know,

41
00:02:23,970 --> 00:02:27,610
things that they have done well
or that they have accomplished or,

42
00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,730
made progress with and sort of creating
that evidence of you know what,

43
00:02:32,250 --> 00:02:33,130
I can do this,

44
00:02:33,651 --> 00:02:37,850
look at this track record
that I've created of things
that I've been able to do

45
00:02:37,910 --> 00:02:41,050
or overcome, or, you
know, rise to achieve.

46
00:02:42,990 --> 00:02:47,520
Because when we are having those kind
of down days and we all have ups and

47
00:02:47,521 --> 00:02:49,560
downs, but you know, when
you have those down days,

48
00:02:49,561 --> 00:02:52,360
you can just open your journal and go,
actually, you know what? I can do this.

49
00:02:52,361 --> 00:02:54,240
Look, I've done this before
and I've done that before,

50
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:56,280
and I've learned all these things.

51
00:02:56,580 --> 00:03:01,400
So I think sometimes it's
just making sure that we keep

52
00:03:02,220 --> 00:03:04,240
balance for ourselves
because often as humans,

53
00:03:04,241 --> 00:03:07,360
we kind of focus on the things that
don't go well, are a bit negative ,

54
00:03:07,361 --> 00:03:08,194
and those sorts of things.

55
00:03:08,201 --> 00:03:12,680
So we want to offer ourselves some
balancing out of that. So if you start to,

56
00:03:13,150 --> 00:03:15,040
kind of notice the things that do go well,

57
00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:18,320
what you are capable of and
create that history for yourself,

58
00:03:18,751 --> 00:03:20,510
you're balancing your own conversation.

59
00:03:20,791 --> 00:03:25,790
I think that alone really allows
you to then kind of rise and sort of

60
00:03:25,791 --> 00:03:29,430
bounce back. I remember, my kids
a couple of years ago, well,

61
00:03:29,550 --> 00:03:31,390
a few more actually, when
they were little kids,

62
00:03:31,660 --> 00:03:36,030
they did a resilience program at school
and it was called bounce because it was

63
00:03:36,350 --> 00:03:40,180
recognizing that we don't all
stay up and positive all the time.

64
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:41,980
We all have ups and downs,

65
00:03:41,981 --> 00:03:45,540
but it's the ability to bounce back up
that actually creates that resilience

66
00:03:45,730 --> 00:03:49,220
opportunity. And so I think if
you can do that for yourself,

67
00:03:49,890 --> 00:03:54,780
have that evidence of your ability
to cope and have great strategies and

68
00:03:54,781 --> 00:03:56,260
make progress and that sort of thing.

69
00:03:56,660 --> 00:04:00,610
I think that takes you a long way
to developing that positive mindset.

70
00:04:00,620 --> 00:04:03,170
Because you've got all those
reminders right there for you.

71
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,930
Yeah. Having all those
reminders is important because,
you know, I was thinking,

72
00:04:07,931 --> 00:04:10,970
as you were saying that, you know,
we do have lots of ups and downs.

73
00:04:10,971 --> 00:04:15,810
Nobody can be positive all the time.
So are there other strategies besides,

74
00:04:15,811 --> 00:04:17,770
you know, not everybody's
good at keeping a journal,

75
00:04:18,070 --> 00:04:19,370
are there other strategies that,

76
00:04:19,430 --> 00:04:21,880
to deal with those ups and downs
as you're working through that?

77
00:04:22,310 --> 00:04:27,040
Yeah, I think so. As I said, even just
noticing things in a positive way.

78
00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:31,320
So just asking yourself questions
in the positive, you know,

79
00:04:31,321 --> 00:04:34,120
what did I enjoy today?
What was good about today?

80
00:04:34,121 --> 00:04:35,880
What was one good thing
that happened today?

81
00:04:36,020 --> 00:04:40,360
So just in the moment you can grasp,
you know, that positive element,

82
00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,190
I think, you know, other
things that we can do,

83
00:04:44,191 --> 00:04:46,070
certainly what I've noticed in the
last couple of years of course,

84
00:04:46,420 --> 00:04:50,870
is that goals have not been achieved.
Like everyone has goals in different ways,

85
00:04:50,871 --> 00:04:52,310
whether they articulate them or not.

86
00:04:52,311 --> 00:04:56,230
And organizations certainly had lots
of goals and for lots of reasons,

87
00:04:56,231 --> 00:04:57,590
we didn't actually make them right?

88
00:04:57,591 --> 00:05:01,660
Because the world changed and a
lot of it was out of our control.

89
00:05:01,661 --> 00:05:05,380
And so for, many people,
teams and organizations,

90
00:05:05,381 --> 00:05:07,940
they can feel like we sort of failed.

91
00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:10,140
We didn't make it and that's
not great for your mindset.

92
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,420
And so I think a better focus
just even every day is to focus on

93
00:05:15,740 --> 00:05:18,340
progress. You know, don't
focus on, did we hit the goal,

94
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,890
but did we make progress? Did
we put some effort in, did we

95
00:05:23,651 --> 00:05:28,530
move forward a little bit further than
we were yesterday or did we actually have

96
00:05:28,650 --> 00:05:32,130
to change direction because that's what
the circumstances dictated. So again,

97
00:05:32,250 --> 00:05:37,250
I think it's just noticing day
to day, how you can, you know,

98
00:05:37,251 --> 00:05:40,650
contribute and make a
difference. And you know,

99
00:05:40,651 --> 00:05:43,920
that you have put effort in and all
of those sorts of things and recognize

100
00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,040
yourself for it and your team and
you know, all those sorts of things.

101
00:05:47,041 --> 00:05:52,040
But I think that's the in the moment
stuff is so powerful to support yourself

102
00:05:52,220 --> 00:05:56,680
and your mindset. And then I
think the other thing Adam,

103
00:05:56,681 --> 00:05:57,880
that's really important is,

104
00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:01,240
one of the things about resilience
I think is not going, Hey,

105
00:06:01,241 --> 00:06:05,160
everything's sparkling and
amazingly wonderful right now, but,

106
00:06:05,881 --> 00:06:09,360
having the ability to go, okay,
it might not be great right now,

107
00:06:09,820 --> 00:06:13,880
but I do believe that I can do some
things that are going to improve it over

108
00:06:13,950 --> 00:06:18,870
time. And so I think having that
conversation with yourself as well, like,

109
00:06:18,871 --> 00:06:20,790
okay, it's not ideal right now,

110
00:06:21,130 --> 00:06:26,030
but what can I do to actually help
it along a little bit in the future?

111
00:06:26,210 --> 00:06:29,230
And, that feeling of doing something,

112
00:06:29,250 --> 00:06:32,390
of taking just a little bit of
power back in the moment, again,

113
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,830
super important for your
resilience and positive mindset.

114
00:06:36,580 --> 00:06:39,860
Yeah, it's almost like you're taking
back that power from the down moment.

115
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:41,980
It doesn't have to make it a high moment,

116
00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,100
but you're kind of bringing yourself out
of the hole and you're able to kind of

117
00:06:45,101 --> 00:06:46,980
push through in that way.
Is that what you're saying?

118
00:06:47,530 --> 00:06:51,740
Yeah, absolutely. And so it's not
about that. I'll just, you know,

119
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,740
be a victim of circumstances and go,
oh, well, there's nothing I can do.

120
00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:58,210
Actually, you know, I can
make a choice, right? Then,

121
00:06:58,211 --> 00:07:02,970
you know how they say that in the moment
is the choice and even choosing not to

122
00:07:02,971 --> 00:07:04,970
make a choice is a choice.

123
00:07:05,090 --> 00:07:09,130
So I can choose to be a victim of
circumstances or, you know, situations,

124
00:07:09,210 --> 00:07:13,890
or I can say, okay, no, I'm gonna look
at what can I do here? And I think that,

125
00:07:13,891 --> 00:07:14,724
as you said,

126
00:07:14,731 --> 00:07:19,560
it's very empowering even though it's
not the perfect set of circumstances and

127
00:07:19,950 --> 00:07:21,480
that empowerment,

128
00:07:21,510 --> 00:07:26,000
that taking back a little bit of control
is so important for people to feel

129
00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:29,200
like, you know, they are influencing
what's going on around them.

130
00:07:29,380 --> 00:07:31,560
And that again yeah, adds
to the resilience piece.

131
00:07:32,110 --> 00:07:32,700
Yeah.

132
00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:36,760
So we've been focusing a lot on like our
leadership and creating that mindset,

133
00:07:37,420 --> 00:07:41,670
but leaders have teams and are there
ways that, you know, we as leaders,

134
00:07:42,770 --> 00:07:45,870
if we're doing this work in ourselves,
we'll notice in our teams, oh, wait,

135
00:07:45,871 --> 00:07:48,590
this person may be having trouble.
This person's going up and down a lot.

136
00:07:49,090 --> 00:07:52,630
Are there some like maybe
coaching concepts or ways
that we can help our teams,

137
00:07:53,090 --> 00:07:56,070
you know, kind of start working through
these same things we've been discussing?

138
00:07:56,780 --> 00:08:01,340
Yean, absolutely. I mean, the thing that
I really love there is that you said,

139
00:08:01,341 --> 00:08:03,620
you know, you can notice what's
happening for other people.

140
00:08:03,621 --> 00:08:07,780
So that's the very first thing as a
leader. Notice, observe, you know,

141
00:08:07,781 --> 00:08:10,220
check in with your people,
all of those things,

142
00:08:10,221 --> 00:08:14,020
because that gives you the information
and the insight to then be able to

143
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:15,940
support them. So, absolutely
that's the first thing,

144
00:08:15,980 --> 00:08:17,220
but from a coaching perspective,

145
00:08:17,221 --> 00:08:20,530
there's a couple of really simple
things that you can do. You know,

146
00:08:21,051 --> 00:08:23,050
if you notice for example,

147
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,490
that perhaps someone seems like they
might be having a moment where they don't

148
00:08:27,491 --> 00:08:31,170
feel like they've got
any power or, you know,

149
00:08:31,331 --> 00:08:33,770
they're in that what I would
call below the line, you know,

150
00:08:33,771 --> 00:08:35,290
they're not feeling very resourceful.

151
00:08:35,291 --> 00:08:39,210
They're not feeling like they can
actually make a difference at the moment,

152
00:08:39,211 --> 00:08:43,000
is to actually ask them a
question to sort of just,

153
00:08:44,150 --> 00:08:47,080
jolt them a little bit, I guess,
interrupt that thinking pattern.

154
00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:50,960
And so ask them a reframing question.
So if they say something like, oh,

155
00:08:51,220 --> 00:08:52,001
it's all too hard,

156
00:08:52,001 --> 00:08:56,360
then you would ask them a really simple
question in the positive like, well,

157
00:08:56,361 --> 00:09:00,200
what would make it easier? You know, and
it's not about solving the big problem.

158
00:09:00,201 --> 00:09:02,680
It's just about getting
them out of that moment of,

159
00:09:02,681 --> 00:09:06,960
I can't do anything to I can
do something or they might

160
00:09:07,860 --> 00:09:11,760
say I'm just so busy and overwhelmed.
And then you would say, okay,

161
00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:16,270
what's one thing you can focus on. So
rather than focusing on everything,

162
00:09:17,511 --> 00:09:20,630
what we are doing is we are actually
passing back control to them because we're

163
00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:23,470
getting them to think of
a solution. And again,

164
00:09:23,471 --> 00:09:26,950
that's that whole empowering and I can
do something in the moment. And so,

165
00:09:27,220 --> 00:09:32,190
just that little technique as a
leader can really change somebody's

166
00:09:32,250 --> 00:09:32,991
day, you know,

167
00:09:32,991 --> 00:09:37,100
by asking one question in that
positive action-taking kind of way,

168
00:09:37,101 --> 00:09:37,934
does that make sense?

169
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,380
It does make sense.

170
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,820
It stops somebody in the midst of their
down and helps them kind of get to that

171
00:09:43,821 --> 00:09:47,340
point of resilience and gives them the
tools to get to that point of resilience.

172
00:09:47,850 --> 00:09:51,620
Yeah, absolutely. And,
not only that, if they,

173
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,260
if they come up with an idea
about, oh, I could do this instead,

174
00:09:56,110 --> 00:09:57,770
and then they do it well,

175
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,210
there's achievement and progress and
all of those things that you get on top.

176
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:06,370
And so, you know, it's a simple thing,
but it can make a really big difference.

177
00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,530
Yeah. It can make a really big
difference. So as a leader,

178
00:10:10,710 --> 00:10:13,290
we have to be problem solvers
and you were just talking about,

179
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:17,000
that's one way of problem
solving, but I read you say,

180
00:10:17,001 --> 00:10:19,840
we need to go from problem solving
to value adding. What does that mean?

181
00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:21,160
Let's discuss that a little bit.

182
00:10:21,710 --> 00:10:26,600
Yeah. Okay. So, this for me is,
it's the difference between,

183
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,520
you know, what I notice is
even now after many years,

184
00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:31,920
too many years, probably,

185
00:10:31,921 --> 00:10:34,880
there are so many people who become
leaders because they were really good at

186
00:10:34,881 --> 00:10:37,870
what they used to do. They
were an expert, you know,

187
00:10:37,871 --> 00:10:40,390
whether it was an accountant
or a salesperson or

188
00:10:42,751 --> 00:10:46,430
an IT - what do you call them - developer?
And so they were really good at that.

189
00:10:46,431 --> 00:10:49,790
And so they, and someone had this
bright idea let's make them a leader.

190
00:10:49,791 --> 00:10:54,150
And so they weren't necessarily
given all those leadership skills.

191
00:10:54,151 --> 00:10:56,350
And so their leadership career progresses,

192
00:10:56,351 --> 00:10:59,740
but they still rely a lot
on their expertise often.

193
00:11:00,020 --> 00:11:03,060
Although they do develop out their
leadership toolkit. And so for me,

194
00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,260
the difference between problem solving
and value adding as a leader is if you

195
00:11:07,261 --> 00:11:11,100
are just relying on your own expertise,
then you tend to be the problem solver,

196
00:11:11,270 --> 00:11:13,980
right? You want to find the
way forward the solution and

197
00:11:17,910 --> 00:11:22,250
that means that you are really
limiting the capacity of your team in a

198
00:11:23,070 --> 00:11:27,970
way to you rather than tapping
into all of the people around you.

199
00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:32,050
And so, for me, the value
adding is as a leader,

200
00:11:32,051 --> 00:11:34,170
you have to let go of being the expert.

201
00:11:34,171 --> 00:11:38,400
You have to let your people be the expert.
And then your job is to tap into all,

202
00:11:38,401 --> 00:11:41,720
all of that amazing
resource and, you know,

203
00:11:41,721 --> 00:11:43,720
knowledge in the people around you.

204
00:11:43,721 --> 00:11:45,480
And of course that's
using a coaching approach.

205
00:11:45,481 --> 00:11:47,000
And so when you use a coaching approach,

206
00:11:47,001 --> 00:11:50,640
you ask the right questions to help your
people solve problems, to come up with,

207
00:11:50,641 --> 00:11:53,120
you know, innovative
solutions and, you know,

208
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,400
tap into their ideas and that
sort of thing. And so that, to me,

209
00:11:56,401 --> 00:11:59,280
that's the value add. So instead
of having a capacity of one,

210
00:11:59,281 --> 00:12:03,240
I've now got a capacity of
all my team. and so, you know,

211
00:12:03,241 --> 00:12:05,200
I can activate all of them.

212
00:12:05,201 --> 00:12:09,400
And so the whole is greater
than the sum of the parts,

213
00:12:09,961 --> 00:12:14,470
because you get this amazing
collaboration, innovation and everything,

214
00:12:14,471 --> 00:12:16,390
because your job is not
to solve the problem.

215
00:12:16,860 --> 00:12:19,510
It's to bring all those
people together, you know,

216
00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:21,790
to be able to come up
with the way forward.

217
00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:24,950
So let's unpack that a
little bit because that's,

218
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:27,590
I think a really profound
thing, because I think many,

219
00:12:27,591 --> 00:12:30,990
many leaders find themselves in a position
of leadership because they were the

220
00:12:31,810 --> 00:12:34,580
expert. And so you mentioned,
coaching, you know,

221
00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:37,460
coaching people to asking the right
questions, to get them on board.

222
00:12:37,650 --> 00:12:40,260
There's also hiring people
who are smarter than you,

223
00:12:40,261 --> 00:12:41,900
who are better experts than you, right?

224
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,340
Are there other ways to kind of help
encourage people to become those experts?

225
00:12:47,450 --> 00:12:51,500
Yeah. I think that there's kind of a
couple of components to it. So, you know,

226
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,730
you hear, so there's the boss,
who's the expert kind of,

227
00:12:56,290 --> 00:12:59,410
and that's can create limitation,
but if we let go of being the expert,

228
00:12:59,411 --> 00:13:00,450
that's one aspect. But,

229
00:13:01,011 --> 00:13:05,650
the other thing is that we want our
teams and our people in our teams to

230
00:13:06,251 --> 00:13:07,490
not only be good at what they do,

231
00:13:07,710 --> 00:13:12,210
but we want them to aspire
and grow so that they can add,

232
00:13:12,210 --> 00:13:15,600
and that they can contribute in lots of
different it ways because everyone has,

233
00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:19,800
you know, incredible capacity and
resource and, that sort of thing,

234
00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:24,520
but they don't necessarily believe
that they can or aspire to it or take

235
00:13:24,521 --> 00:13:27,720
accountability, you know, for
it. And so coaching again,

236
00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:31,240
can support all of those things. You
know, when we, when we coach our people,

237
00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:35,710
we are sort of expressing our belief
that we know they can figure this out.

238
00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:38,230
And again, that's a very
powerful thing to do,

239
00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:43,070
as a leader to believe in your people
and create the space for them to come up

240
00:13:43,071 --> 00:13:46,630
with a solution or an idea, or, you
know, those sorts of things or to,

241
00:13:48,370 --> 00:13:50,430
actually trust in them.
I'm gonna give you this,

242
00:13:50,511 --> 00:13:53,190
I'm gonna ask you some questions so you
can figure out how you're going to do

243
00:13:53,191 --> 00:13:56,780
it. And then I'm just going to leave
it in your care, to get that done.

244
00:13:56,781 --> 00:13:58,580
And that trust,

245
00:13:58,860 --> 00:14:02,420
I think it just creates this opportunity.

246
00:14:02,421 --> 00:14:05,580
People can really step into that go,
you know, it feels good. You know,

247
00:14:05,581 --> 00:14:08,180
if your leader trusts you to do
something, it, it can feel really good,

248
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:13,340
but we've got a couple that with
making sure that they do have enough

249
00:14:13,690 --> 00:14:17,090
knowledge and resources and all
those sorts of things. And so for me,

250
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,170
it's the balance between mentoring people,

251
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,090
kind of sharing your wisdom with them so
that they can tap into your expertise,

252
00:14:23,150 --> 00:14:27,050
but they learn it and then
coaching them to apply, you know,

253
00:14:27,051 --> 00:14:31,810
that knowledge into whatever it is that
they're trying to do. And you, as the,

254
00:14:32,450 --> 00:14:35,810
leader are not getting involved in because
you are leading, you are not doing.

255
00:14:36,830 --> 00:14:40,520
There's a lot to think about there
and can it also be accompanied with,

256
00:14:41,820 --> 00:14:45,200
you know, saying to them Hey, why
don't you go take this course on X, Y,

257
00:14:45,201 --> 00:14:46,840
and Z to increase your knowledge.

258
00:14:46,841 --> 00:14:51,360
And then let's talk about it to help
them broaden their knowledge outside of

259
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,080
what you know, and maybe as
like the leaders, the expert,

260
00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:57,440
but you want them to become an expert.
So you want to help them expand.

261
00:14:57,820 --> 00:14:59,040
Is that a way to do it as well?

262
00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:04,200
Look, absolutely. I think that, you know,

263
00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:09,160
gifting people knowledge and opportunity
is such an incredible thing to

264
00:15:09,161 --> 00:15:11,190
do. And, also for fostering, you know,

265
00:15:11,191 --> 00:15:14,390
if they have an interest in something
and, that sort of thing to grow,

266
00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:16,790
that this is about, you know,

267
00:15:16,791 --> 00:15:21,310
the collective knowledge
and, that sort of thing. And,

268
00:15:21,551 --> 00:15:25,430
if you can expand that, you know, this
is about creating possibility, right?

269
00:15:25,690 --> 00:15:29,110
And so as a leader, that's part of your
job as well. We don't just plateau.

270
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:31,300
It's, you know, we've got a world change.

271
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,260
We always need to be growing capability,
not just our own capability. In fact,

272
00:15:36,261 --> 00:15:40,820
we've got this big responsibility to grow
the capability of everyone around us.

273
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,100
So helping them get knowledge and
then coaching them through the

274
00:15:45,250 --> 00:15:48,780
application of that knowledge.
So it's not just, you know,

275
00:15:48,781 --> 00:15:51,890
we know people go and do courses
and then six month months later,

276
00:15:51,891 --> 00:15:54,170
they can't remember anything because
they didn't actually use the knowledge.

277
00:15:54,630 --> 00:15:58,730
So yes, go and do the learning,
give them that amazing opportunity,

278
00:15:58,731 --> 00:16:00,730
but then coach them to
apply the learning ,

279
00:16:00,810 --> 00:16:03,810
so they retain it all and we all
get great value out of it. Yeah,

280
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,170
what an opportunity.

281
00:16:05,420 --> 00:16:06,253
Definitely.

282
00:16:06,510 --> 00:16:10,650
So you mentioned giving people the space
and I think giving space comes with

283
00:16:10,651 --> 00:16:13,240
trust and accountability. How
do you develop accountability?

284
00:16:13,241 --> 00:16:17,200
Especially in a team that may be lacking
that accountability or you're trying to

285
00:16:17,201 --> 00:16:20,040
build that up, to apply all the
things we've been talking about.

286
00:16:21,150 --> 00:16:25,640
Yeah, I go back to my default
position, which is coaching.

287
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,480
So coaching is a really
great way to help people

288
00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:34,550
step into that accountability space.
And I do work with a lot of, not a lot,

289
00:16:34,551 --> 00:16:37,310
but you know, definitely there's
still a theme where people say, gosh,

290
00:16:37,311 --> 00:16:40,550
I wish my people would step up
a little bit more or, you know,

291
00:16:40,551 --> 00:16:44,150
I don't feel like they're taking enough
initiative or those sorts of things.

292
00:16:44,151 --> 00:16:49,030
It's accountability basically. But
if I tell you, I say, Hey Adam,

293
00:16:49,031 --> 00:16:50,470
I've got this thing I need you to do,

294
00:16:50,471 --> 00:16:54,220
and I need you to do it by this
time in this way, you know,

295
00:16:54,221 --> 00:16:57,540
because that's my way. and you go,
oh yeah, thanks very much, Stacey.

296
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,260
I'm really looking forward to doing
that. Whereas if I say, Hey Adam,

297
00:17:01,310 --> 00:17:02,780
we've got this thing that we need to do.

298
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,020
And I'd love to know how
you would go about doing it.

299
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,940
And what do you reckon is the best way?
And what's the first thing you would do?

300
00:17:10,941 --> 00:17:14,330
What resources do you
need to be successful?

301
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,130
Then you are going to come up
with these ideas and you know,

302
00:17:19,131 --> 00:17:21,290
and when you come across the
idea that you think, yes,

303
00:17:21,291 --> 00:17:24,250
that's going to work and you say, Hey
Stacey, this is the way I would do it.

304
00:17:24,251 --> 00:17:26,810
And I go, great. When
would you like to star?

305
00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:31,610
But now the ownership has moved to you
cuz you've made all the decisions and

306
00:17:31,611 --> 00:17:34,880
choices about what's gonna
happen and how you gonna do it.

307
00:17:34,940 --> 00:17:39,000
And it's your great idea. And so
instead of it being my great idea,

308
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:40,280
now it's your great idea.

309
00:17:40,281 --> 00:17:43,320
You're much more likely to own
it and be accountable for it.

310
00:17:43,820 --> 00:17:48,600
And I guess the onus goes back onto a
leader to be able to let go of the fact

311
00:17:48,601 --> 00:17:52,360
that the way you do it may be completely
different and you maybe want to be like

312
00:17:52,361 --> 00:17:54,680
jump out and say, no, no,
no, no, no change this way.

313
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:59,680
But that person has to grow in their
own way and be able to fly in a sense.

314
00:17:59,681 --> 00:18:00,514
Right?

315
00:18:00,550 --> 00:18:04,160
Yeah, look. Absolutely. And, of course
there will be those moments when

316
00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:10,750
your member of your team comes up with
this idea, you go, oh, oh dear that's--.

317
00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:15,950
But instead of going, oh no, that
won't work. I would still say,

318
00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:19,790
use a coaching approach. So what
makes you think this is the right way?

319
00:18:20,260 --> 00:18:23,190
What are the risks around
this approach? You know,

320
00:18:23,191 --> 00:18:27,590
and asking them so that they think it
through and they either overcome all of

321
00:18:27,591 --> 00:18:30,780
your doubts because they've actually
thought it through and you know,

322
00:18:30,781 --> 00:18:34,580
it's a great idea. Or they come to
realize actually, you know what,

323
00:18:34,581 --> 00:18:38,900
in order for this to work, I need to
do something else as well. Or maybe no,

324
00:18:38,901 --> 00:18:41,380
it is too risky. In fact,
now that I think about it,

325
00:18:41,460 --> 00:18:44,660
I need to go and do something
else, but they're still owning it.

326
00:18:44,661 --> 00:18:48,540
They're still figuring it out. And
you are being the coach encouraging,

327
00:18:48,541 --> 00:18:51,050
supporting, creating the space
for them to think it through,

328
00:18:51,790 --> 00:18:56,090
but not taking it away from them.
You're still letting them, you know,

329
00:18:56,550 --> 00:18:57,383
own it.

330
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:01,370
Yeah. You're letting them own it. So
as we kind of wrap up our conversation,

331
00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:04,770
I wanted to kind of circle back.
You've been mentioning coaching a lot.

332
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,290
What are like top three coaching tips
that you can give folks as we kind of end

333
00:19:09,291 --> 00:19:11,760
this conversation just in light of
everything we've been talking about.

334
00:19:12,350 --> 00:19:15,520
Yeah. Great. The first
one is, as a leader,

335
00:19:15,620 --> 00:19:20,120
you wanna ask lots of open questions and
be prepared to listen to the answers.

336
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,920
I think that's a really
important one. You know,

337
00:19:22,921 --> 00:19:27,000
people know if you're listening. So, so
great open questions, lots of listening.

338
00:19:27,740 --> 00:19:31,910
And I would say don't jump in
too early to judge those answers.

339
00:19:33,150 --> 00:19:33,983
Those would be my top three.

340
00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:37,670
This has been Count Me In,

341
00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:42,310
IMA's podcast providing you
with the latest perspectives
of thought leaders from

342
00:19:42,311 --> 00:19:44,470
the accounting and finance
profession. If you like,

343
00:19:44,471 --> 00:19:47,710
what you've heard and you'd like to be
counted in for more relevant accounting

344
00:19:47,711 --> 00:19:50,950
and finance education, visit
IMA's website at www.imanet.org