WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.559 --> 00:00:01.809 Speaker: Hi, this is Victoria. 00:00:01.909 --> 00:00:08.320 This is the fifth and final episode in my series recorded at ACC's Responsible 00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:10.110 Care and Sustainability Conference. 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:14.079 Ironically, it was the first interview I recorded on site. 00:00:14.699 --> 00:00:19.010 I had an amazing conversation with Kevin Norfleet, the Global 00:00:19.010 --> 00:00:21.300 Sustainability Director at Celanese. 00:00:21.970 --> 00:00:27.530 We talked about sustainability, but more importantly, we talked about strategy. 00:00:27.765 --> 00:00:32.905 Customer impact and the importance of creating customer value and the challenge 00:00:32.905 --> 00:00:37.975 of balancing stakeholder and regulatory requirements while also providing 00:00:38.055 --> 00:00:42.375 products and services that customers really need and are willing to pay for. 00:00:42.835 --> 00:00:48.134 So Kevin talks about Celenese's carbon capture project in Texas, as well 00:00:48.134 --> 00:00:50.564 as developing eco friendly products. 00:00:50.724 --> 00:00:54.925 Kevin also shared some career tips and insights for those entering the field. 00:00:55.495 --> 00:00:57.305 Hope you enjoy our conversation. 00:00:57.445 --> 00:00:58.195 I know I did. 00:00:59.335 --> 00:01:00.615 Victoria: Hi, I'm Victoria Meyer. 00:01:00.635 --> 00:01:02.105 Welcome back to The Chemical Show. 00:01:02.245 --> 00:01:07.545 Today, I am speaking with Kevin Norfleet from Celanese, who is the 00:01:07.585 --> 00:01:09.655 Global Sustainability Director. 00:01:10.385 --> 00:01:14.265 We are here at ACC's Responsible Care and Sustainability Conference, and I 00:01:14.265 --> 00:01:18.245 got a chance to meet with Kevin live, in real life, which doesn't always 00:01:18.245 --> 00:01:19.985 happen on our Chemical Show podcasts. 00:01:20.365 --> 00:01:21.895 Um, and really happy to do that. 00:01:21.895 --> 00:01:23.905 So, Kevin, welcome to The Chemical Show. 00:01:24.115 --> 00:01:24.465 Kevin Norfleet: Thank you. 00:01:24.515 --> 00:01:25.075 Good to be here. 00:01:25.215 --> 00:01:25.715 Victoria: Thank you. 00:01:25.775 --> 00:01:27.935 So, let's just start a little bit. 00:01:27.935 --> 00:01:31.825 How'd you get interested in the chemical industry and then 00:01:31.865 --> 00:01:33.495 ultimately into sustainability? 00:01:33.825 --> 00:01:34.185 Kevin Norfleet: Yeah. 00:01:34.245 --> 00:01:34.515 Yeah. 00:01:34.515 --> 00:01:37.075 So I've been with Celanese for 16 years. 00:01:37.085 --> 00:01:41.325 So really my entire career and I was a chemical engineer as an undergraduate. 00:01:41.395 --> 00:01:42.315 I like chemistry. 00:01:42.315 --> 00:01:42.885 I like math. 00:01:42.895 --> 00:01:45.655 It seemed like a logical connection. 00:01:45.655 --> 00:01:46.285 And so it's, 00:01:46.385 --> 00:01:48.185 Victoria: That's the story for most, for most yet. 00:01:48.555 --> 00:01:49.915 Kevin Norfleet: It's been a, been a great journey. 00:01:49.915 --> 00:01:52.255 I've been able to do a lot of different things with Selenies 00:01:52.255 --> 00:01:54.115 over the past 16 years. 00:01:54.115 --> 00:01:58.635 And really starting about five years ago, we started to say there's this 00:01:59.025 --> 00:02:01.465 emerging theme of sustainability. 00:02:01.465 --> 00:02:03.995 Why don't you go take a look at it and kind of see what the 00:02:03.995 --> 00:02:05.685 next emerging market trend is. 00:02:05.685 --> 00:02:07.395 And I frankly never got to anything else. 00:02:07.395 --> 00:02:11.215 I've really just spent the last five years working on sustainability and 00:02:11.215 --> 00:02:15.315 it's just grown and grown and grown in terms of a really impactful area to us. 00:02:15.345 --> 00:02:15.845 Victoria: Yeah, absolutely. 00:02:15.865 --> 00:02:18.675 And certainly this is the decade of sustainability, right? 00:02:18.705 --> 00:02:23.585 That, um, it seems like since the pandemic, everyone's sustainability 00:02:23.605 --> 00:02:25.245 efforts have accelerated. 00:02:25.245 --> 00:02:28.905 It's gotten more interest to the general public, to the chemical 00:02:28.905 --> 00:02:30.575 industry and to our customers. 00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:31.320 Yep. 00:02:32.180 --> 00:02:32.490 Awesome. 00:02:32.890 --> 00:02:35.820 When you think about Selenese, what's, what's the role of 00:02:35.820 --> 00:02:38.260 sustainability at Selenese? 00:02:38.310 --> 00:02:40.970 What, what part does it play in your products and your 00:02:40.970 --> 00:02:42.470 investments and your strategies? 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:43.460 Kevin Norfleet: Yeah, absolutely. 00:02:43.460 --> 00:02:48.615 So, um, We see sustainability as, as really a, uh, exciting 00:02:48.615 --> 00:02:50.255 opportunity for our business. 00:02:50.275 --> 00:02:54.535 So, Celanese as a company, we are one of the largest non fuel 00:02:54.725 --> 00:02:56.355 users of methanol in the world. 00:02:56.395 --> 00:03:00.155 And, methanol is a really interesting building block for sustainability. 00:03:00.165 --> 00:03:04.185 You can get to sustainable methanol in a lot of different ways, and you can do it 00:03:04.250 --> 00:03:09.420 frankly, in ways that are more scalable and, um, in many ways more economical 00:03:09.590 --> 00:03:11.250 than a lot of other chemical pathways. 00:03:11.250 --> 00:03:16.960 And so that creates really compelling options for our business to be able to 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.320 deliver sustainability to our customers in a way that's, that's very effective 00:03:21.390 --> 00:03:25.825 and very cost advantage so that, um, you know, we can give sustainability 00:03:25.825 --> 00:03:29.725 competitively, um, not just competing against in kind chemistries, but a 00:03:29.725 --> 00:03:31.155 lot of out of kind chemistries too. 00:03:31.165 --> 00:03:34.785 So, so from that perspective, we see it as a really great business 00:03:34.785 --> 00:03:38.765 opportunity and maybe just one part of that to highlight, uh, we recently 00:03:38.765 --> 00:03:41.755 were able to start up what we believe is one of the largest carbon capture 00:03:41.755 --> 00:03:45.085 and utilization projects in the world to be able to make methanol to really 00:03:45.085 --> 00:03:49.275 create, you know, an engine to drive sustainability into most of our company. 00:03:49.575 --> 00:03:49.885 Victoria: Got it. 00:03:50.165 --> 00:03:52.535 So where's the CCU located? 00:03:52.895 --> 00:03:53.135 Kevin Norfleet: Yeah. 00:03:53.155 --> 00:03:57.395 So it's at our plant in Clear Lake, Texas, which is just outside of Houston. 00:03:57.755 --> 00:04:00.445 Um, we have an existing methanol unit there. 00:04:00.445 --> 00:04:03.335 That's a part of a joint venture we have with Mitsui and company. 00:04:03.655 --> 00:04:05.995 Um, and yeah, we started that up at the beginning of the year. 00:04:06.465 --> 00:04:07.065 Victoria: That's interesting. 00:04:07.105 --> 00:04:11.015 So was, did you guys anticipate the carbon capture being part 00:04:11.055 --> 00:04:12.215 of this methanol project? 00:04:12.215 --> 00:04:14.215 Cause that, that plant is not that old. 00:04:15.175 --> 00:04:20.155 Was it part of the development expectation or is this something that really came 00:04:20.155 --> 00:04:25.255 into bear as technologies advanced and really this recognition that we really 00:04:25.255 --> 00:04:27.505 needed to do something with carbon? 00:04:27.505 --> 00:04:31.025 Kevin Norfleet: It was, I would say more of, you know, something that really has 00:04:31.025 --> 00:04:34.855 developed in the last couple of years as, as we've looked at that unit and 00:04:34.855 --> 00:04:36.625 looked at, you know, how can we do more? 00:04:36.625 --> 00:04:40.585 How can we really create, um, opportunities and 00:04:40.585 --> 00:04:41.815 options for our business? 00:04:41.815 --> 00:04:45.505 And this is again, a great example of looking at sustainability both 00:04:45.505 --> 00:04:48.115 as the right thing to do, but also something that's good business. 00:04:48.115 --> 00:04:51.895 And I think that's exactly what this project is, is really looking at what we 00:04:51.895 --> 00:04:55.535 had there and saying, Hey, there's this really interesting opportunity where we 00:04:55.535 --> 00:04:59.425 can do carbon capture and utilization and make it do it in a way that's economical. 00:04:59.545 --> 00:04:59.735 Victoria: Yeah. 00:04:59.935 --> 00:05:00.185 Cool. 00:05:00.495 --> 00:05:03.825 So, you know, sustainability, I think, uh, you know, one of the topics 00:05:03.825 --> 00:05:09.155 we talk about is whether customers really want it, like who really cares, 00:05:09.675 --> 00:05:11.335 who cares and who's paying for it? 00:05:11.525 --> 00:05:16.205 Because it feels like everybody cares until the money discussion comes 00:05:16.205 --> 00:05:18.905 in because it's, it's not cheap. 00:05:18.975 --> 00:05:21.305 I mean, building a carbon capture unit is not free. 00:05:21.305 --> 00:05:21.775 Yep. 00:05:21.775 --> 00:05:21.795 Yep. 00:05:22.065 --> 00:05:25.195 There's an investment involved, there's an ongoing operating cost. 00:05:25.495 --> 00:05:28.665 So when you think about sustainability as it relates to customer and you 00:05:28.685 --> 00:05:32.365 think about what, how it fits into your product and customer portfolio, 00:05:33.055 --> 00:05:34.795 what's the value driver there? 00:05:34.905 --> 00:05:36.395 Are customers asking for this? 00:05:36.405 --> 00:05:37.705 Are they valuing it? 00:05:37.735 --> 00:05:39.605 How do you see its importance? 00:05:39.735 --> 00:05:39.755 Kevin Norfleet: Yeah. 00:05:40.405 --> 00:05:42.665 You know, that's a, that's a big question. 00:05:42.675 --> 00:05:43.665 That's kind of a joke. 00:05:43.795 --> 00:05:45.265 People, that's the million dollar question. 00:05:45.265 --> 00:05:49.215 I mean, that's what ultimately, yeah, the billion dollar question, um, you know, 00:05:49.215 --> 00:05:50.525 how do you, how do you figure that out? 00:05:50.525 --> 00:05:51.775 And, and it's, it's by no means. 00:05:52.915 --> 00:05:53.255 answer. 00:05:53.255 --> 00:05:57.175 I mean, there are, there are customers in market segments that are really ahead of 00:05:57.175 --> 00:06:02.105 the curve and really driving in and, and frankly willing to pay, um, a premium. 00:06:02.105 --> 00:06:04.905 I mean, that said, when you talk about sustainability, you got to keep 00:06:04.905 --> 00:06:09.705 in mind, you're not just competing against your own direct competitors. 00:06:09.705 --> 00:06:13.365 You're really competing against what it, what it Customers and companies 00:06:13.365 --> 00:06:17.195 want to spend money on within their entire value chain, and you have to, 00:06:17.255 --> 00:06:20.055 you have to think about sustainability in a way where it's competitive, not 00:06:20.055 --> 00:06:23.315 just in your space, but against all the other places where they can spend 00:06:23.315 --> 00:06:24.915 that sustainability dollar as well. 00:06:24.915 --> 00:06:28.905 So, um, you know, it's, there's definitely places where there's openness. 00:06:29.155 --> 00:06:33.360 You know, I would love it There were more people with that openness. 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:34.830 I mean, it's, it's definitely a journey. 00:06:34.835 --> 00:06:37.020 Some sub-market segments are very far along. 00:06:37.020 --> 00:06:40.740 Some are just starting out, but we do see it as, uh, a trend that's probably 00:06:40.740 --> 00:06:44.070 only gonna continue to go in one direction, and that's where we are. 00:06:44.190 --> 00:06:44.640 Victoria: That's cool. 00:06:44.790 --> 00:06:48.570 Well, and I hadn't really thought about it from a customer, the customer's 00:06:48.570 --> 00:06:53.820 portfolio perspective, that our customers, your customers have certain 00:06:53.820 --> 00:06:58.200 areas that are higher priority to be, you know, more sustainable products 00:06:58.205 --> 00:07:02.950 or to make that investment even from a supplier, um, versus others. 00:07:02.950 --> 00:07:05.370 And so figuring out that you're, you're not just competing with 00:07:05.370 --> 00:07:09.450 yourself and with other competitive products, methanol and what have you, 00:07:09.780 --> 00:07:14.470 it's completely different products, um, in terms of where the money is. 00:07:14.610 --> 00:07:15.720 Kevin Norfleet: Yeah, absolutely. 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.420 I mean, it's, you know, at the end of the day, part of what we say is, 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:21.560 you know, we want customers to see the most value from spending that 00:07:21.590 --> 00:07:25.250 dollar on sustainability, you know, with us with versus other places. 00:07:25.250 --> 00:07:29.260 And, you know, that's a big part of how we've tried to present our, our offerings. 00:07:29.260 --> 00:07:33.950 I mean, we, we've really developed these eco product options across now 00:07:33.950 --> 00:07:38.070 almost our entire portfolio where we have eco CC products based on 00:07:38.070 --> 00:07:39.520 our carbon capture and utilization. 00:07:39.520 --> 00:07:41.260 We have eco B based on bio. 00:07:41.260 --> 00:07:44.920 So again, really this idea of, yeah, making sure we're putting in place, 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:47.319 uh, good options for our customers. 00:07:47.420 --> 00:07:52.290 Customers that are both impactful but also attractive because like you said at 00:07:52.290 --> 00:07:57.690 the beginning, I mean, you've got to have a conversation about, uh, the cost too. 00:07:57.700 --> 00:07:59.430 I mean, you have to, you have to start with that. 00:07:59.590 --> 00:07:59.870 Victoria: Yeah. 00:07:59.970 --> 00:08:00.550 Makes sense. 00:08:00.960 --> 00:08:03.790 Um, do you get involved in recruiting at all? 00:08:03.790 --> 00:08:06.150 I mean, when you think about, and I know, yeah, every chemical 00:08:06.150 --> 00:08:09.870 company is always looking at bringing up the next generation. 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:14.930 Is this something, is this a value proposition for future employees? 00:08:15.020 --> 00:08:17.240 Um, is it something that you're, you're. 00:08:17.740 --> 00:08:20.780 Your future employees are looking for this commitment to sustainability 00:08:20.780 --> 00:08:22.310 and the investment in sustainability. 00:08:22.570 --> 00:08:25.090 Does it help make your employee value proposition better? 00:08:25.900 --> 00:08:26.510 Kevin Norfleet: Absolutely. 00:08:26.510 --> 00:08:29.910 I mean, I think, you know, this, this topic is an important one to, to Selanese. 00:08:29.910 --> 00:08:32.450 I mean, we, we spend a lot of time and effort on it. 00:08:32.450 --> 00:08:35.260 It's, it's, you know, part of how we ensure a license to operate 00:08:35.260 --> 00:08:36.550 and, and exactly what you said. 00:08:36.550 --> 00:08:39.790 I mean, it's something that, you know, people look at when they decide 00:08:39.790 --> 00:08:42.680 what kind of a company do they want to work for and spend a career with. 00:08:42.690 --> 00:08:45.970 So yeah, it's absolutely a, a key piece of, you know, how we, 00:08:45.970 --> 00:08:47.050 how we want to present ourselves. 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:47.400 Victoria: All right. 00:08:47.680 --> 00:08:52.190 So, , leadership and career question, um, if you were going to advise somebody 00:08:52.290 --> 00:08:57.770 in terms of creating a career in chemicals, what's the most critical thing? 00:08:57.770 --> 00:09:01.330 What's the learning along the way that you've had that you think 00:09:01.340 --> 00:09:03.050 helps create a successful career? 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:03.640 Kevin Norfleet: Yeah. 00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:08.610 So I would say, uh, you need to be prepared to be agile and be very 00:09:08.610 --> 00:09:12.810 open to learning that, uh, you know, career paths aren't, aren't linear. 00:09:12.820 --> 00:09:17.120 You have to be willing to, to move side to side, to, to gather extra experiences. 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:20.990 You know, looking back on my career, uh, there were times where I did jobs 00:09:20.990 --> 00:09:24.230 that maybe I didn't love as much, but then years later, looking back at it, 00:09:24.230 --> 00:09:27.590 I say, that was just an incredible experience and I'm so glad I did that. 00:09:27.590 --> 00:09:31.250 And so, you know, having that, uh, flexibility, willingness to learn, 00:09:31.255 --> 00:09:35.090 willingness to try new things, willingness to sometimes move sideways and move to 00:09:35.090 --> 00:09:38.660 a different division and things like that, where, you know, it's not always a 00:09:38.660 --> 00:09:42.050 straight line, but, but I think that's, you know, one of the most important parts, 00:09:42.110 --> 00:09:44.900 uh, in terms of developing your yourself. 00:09:44.900 --> 00:09:45.380 Victoria: Awesome. 00:09:45.470 --> 00:09:45.890 Well, thank you. 00:09:45.890 --> 00:09:46.010 Thank. 00:09:46.140 --> 00:09:49.080 Thanks for, uh, taking the time out of the conference to meet with me today. 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:50.020 I really appreciate it. 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:50.730 Kevin Norfleet: Sounds good. 00:09:50.750 --> 00:09:51.170 Appreciate it. 00:09:51.290 --> 00:09:51.660 Victoria: Absolutely. 00:09:51.660 --> 00:09:52.840 And thanks everyone for listening. 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:53.430 Keep listening. 00:09:53.430 --> 00:09:53.980 Keep following. 00:09:53.980 --> 00:09:54.600 Keep sharing. 00:09:54.610 --> 00:09:56.490 And we will talk with you again soon.