Speaker: Hi, this is Victoria.
This is the fifth and final episode in my series recorded at ACC's Responsible
Care and Sustainability Conference.
Ironically, it was the first interview I recorded on site.
I had an amazing conversation with Kevin Norfleet, the Global
Sustainability Director at Celanese.
We talked about sustainability, but more importantly, we talked about strategy.
Customer impact and the importance of creating customer value and the challenge
of balancing stakeholder and regulatory requirements while also providing
products and services that customers really need and are willing to pay for.
So Kevin talks about Celenese's carbon capture project in Texas, as well
as developing eco friendly products.
Kevin also shared some career tips and insights for those entering the field.
Hope you enjoy our conversation.
I know I did.
Victoria: Hi, I'm Victoria Meyer.
Welcome back to The Chemical Show.
Today, I am speaking with Kevin Norfleet from Celanese, who is the
Global Sustainability Director.
We are here at ACC's Responsible Care and Sustainability Conference, and I
got a chance to meet with Kevin live, in real life, which doesn't always
happen on our Chemical Show podcasts.
Um, and really happy to do that.
So, Kevin, welcome to The Chemical Show.
Kevin Norfleet: Thank you.
Good to be here.
Victoria: Thank you.
So, let's just start a little bit.
How'd you get interested in the chemical industry and then
ultimately into sustainability?
Kevin Norfleet: Yeah.
Yeah.
So I've been with Celanese for 16 years.
So really my entire career and I was a chemical engineer as an undergraduate.
I like chemistry.
I like math.
It seemed like a logical connection.
And so it's,
Victoria: That's the story for most, for most yet.
Kevin Norfleet: It's been a, been a great journey.
I've been able to do a lot of different things with Selenies
over the past 16 years.
And really starting about five years ago, we started to say there's this
emerging theme of sustainability.
Why don't you go take a look at it and kind of see what the
next emerging market trend is.
And I frankly never got to anything else.
I've really just spent the last five years working on sustainability and
it's just grown and grown and grown in terms of a really impactful area to us.
Victoria: Yeah, absolutely.
And certainly this is the decade of sustainability, right?
That, um, it seems like since the pandemic, everyone's sustainability
efforts have accelerated.
It's gotten more interest to the general public, to the chemical
industry and to our customers.
Yep.
Awesome.
When you think about Selenese, what's, what's the role of
sustainability at Selenese?
What, what part does it play in your products and your
investments and your strategies?
Kevin Norfleet: Yeah, absolutely.
So, um, We see sustainability as, as really a, uh, exciting
opportunity for our business.
So, Celanese as a company, we are one of the largest non fuel
users of methanol in the world.
And, methanol is a really interesting building block for sustainability.
You can get to sustainable methanol in a lot of different ways, and you can do it
frankly, in ways that are more scalable and, um, in many ways more economical
than a lot of other chemical pathways.
And so that creates really compelling options for our business to be able to
deliver sustainability to our customers in a way that's, that's very effective
and very cost advantage so that, um, you know, we can give sustainability
competitively, um, not just competing against in kind chemistries, but a
lot of out of kind chemistries too.
So, so from that perspective, we see it as a really great business
opportunity and maybe just one part of that to highlight, uh, we recently
were able to start up what we believe is one of the largest carbon capture
and utilization projects in the world to be able to make methanol to really
create, you know, an engine to drive sustainability into most of our company.
Victoria: Got it.
So where's the CCU located?
Kevin Norfleet: Yeah.
So it's at our plant in Clear Lake, Texas, which is just outside of Houston.
Um, we have an existing methanol unit there.
That's a part of a joint venture we have with Mitsui and company.
Um, and yeah, we started that up at the beginning of the year.
Victoria: That's interesting.
So was, did you guys anticipate the carbon capture being part
of this methanol project?
Cause that, that plant is not that old.
Was it part of the development expectation or is this something that really came
into bear as technologies advanced and really this recognition that we really
needed to do something with carbon?
Kevin Norfleet: It was, I would say more of, you know, something that really has
developed in the last couple of years as, as we've looked at that unit and
looked at, you know, how can we do more?
How can we really create, um, opportunities and
options for our business?
And this is again, a great example of looking at sustainability both
as the right thing to do, but also something that's good business.
And I think that's exactly what this project is, is really looking at what we
had there and saying, Hey, there's this really interesting opportunity where we
can do carbon capture and utilization and make it do it in a way that's economical.
Victoria: Yeah.
Cool.
So, you know, sustainability, I think, uh, you know, one of the topics
we talk about is whether customers really want it, like who really cares,
who cares and who's paying for it?
Because it feels like everybody cares until the money discussion comes
in because it's, it's not cheap.
I mean, building a carbon capture unit is not free.
Yep.
There's an investment involved, there's an ongoing operating cost.
So when you think about sustainability as it relates to customer and you
think about what, how it fits into your product and customer portfolio,
what's the value driver there?
Are customers asking for this?
Are they valuing it?
How do you see its importance?
Kevin Norfleet: Yeah.
You know, that's a, that's a big question.
That's kind of a joke.
People, that's the million dollar question.
I mean, that's what ultimately, yeah, the billion dollar question, um, you know,
how do you, how do you figure that out?
And, and it's, it's by no means.
answer.
I mean, there are, there are customers in market segments that are really ahead of
the curve and really driving in and, and frankly willing to pay, um, a premium.
I mean, that said, when you talk about sustainability, you got to keep
in mind, you're not just competing against your own direct competitors.
You're really competing against what it, what it Customers and companies
want to spend money on within their entire value chain, and you have to,
you have to think about sustainability in a way where it's competitive, not
just in your space, but against all the other places where they can spend
that sustainability dollar as well.
So, um, you know, it's, there's definitely places where there's openness.
You know, I would love it There were more people with that openness.
I mean, it's, it's definitely a journey.
Some sub-market segments are very far along.
Some are just starting out, but we do see it as, uh, a trend that's probably
only gonna continue to go in one direction, and that's where we are.
Victoria: That's cool.
Well, and I hadn't really thought about it from a customer, the customer's
portfolio perspective, that our customers, your customers have certain
areas that are higher priority to be, you know, more sustainable products
or to make that investment even from a supplier, um, versus others.
And so figuring out that you're, you're not just competing with
yourself and with other competitive products, methanol and what have you,
it's completely different products, um, in terms of where the money is.
Kevin Norfleet: Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it's, you know, at the end of the day, part of what we say is,
you know, we want customers to see the most value from spending that
dollar on sustainability, you know, with us with versus other places.
And, you know, that's a big part of how we've tried to present our, our offerings.
I mean, we, we've really developed these eco product options across now
almost our entire portfolio where we have eco CC products based on
our carbon capture and utilization.
We have eco B based on bio.
So again, really this idea of, yeah, making sure we're putting in place,
uh, good options for our customers.
Customers that are both impactful but also attractive because like you said at
the beginning, I mean, you've got to have a conversation about, uh, the cost too.
I mean, you have to, you have to start with that.
Victoria: Yeah.
Makes sense.
Um, do you get involved in recruiting at all?
I mean, when you think about, and I know, yeah, every chemical
company is always looking at bringing up the next generation.
Is this something, is this a value proposition for future employees?
Um, is it something that you're, you're.
Your future employees are looking for this commitment to sustainability
and the investment in sustainability.
Does it help make your employee value proposition better?
Kevin Norfleet: Absolutely.
I mean, I think, you know, this, this topic is an important one to, to Selanese.
I mean, we, we spend a lot of time and effort on it.
It's, it's, you know, part of how we ensure a license to operate
and, and exactly what you said.
I mean, it's something that, you know, people look at when they decide
what kind of a company do they want to work for and spend a career with.
So yeah, it's absolutely a, a key piece of, you know, how we,
how we want to present ourselves.
Victoria: All right.
So, , leadership and career question, um, if you were going to advise somebody
in terms of creating a career in chemicals, what's the most critical thing?
What's the learning along the way that you've had that you think
helps create a successful career?
Kevin Norfleet: Yeah.
So I would say, uh, you need to be prepared to be agile and be very
open to learning that, uh, you know, career paths aren't, aren't linear.
You have to be willing to, to move side to side, to, to gather extra experiences.
You know, looking back on my career, uh, there were times where I did jobs
that maybe I didn't love as much, but then years later, looking back at it,
I say, that was just an incredible experience and I'm so glad I did that.
And so, you know, having that, uh, flexibility, willingness to learn,
willingness to try new things, willingness to sometimes move sideways and move to
a different division and things like that, where, you know, it's not always a
straight line, but, but I think that's, you know, one of the most important parts,
uh, in terms of developing your yourself.
Victoria: Awesome.
Well, thank you.
Thank.
Thanks for, uh, taking the time out of the conference to meet with me today.
I really appreciate it.
Kevin Norfleet: Sounds good.
Appreciate it.
Victoria: Absolutely.
And thanks everyone for listening.
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And we will talk with you again soon.