WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:07.490 Jethro Jones: Welcome to a Vision for Learning, a proud 00:00:07.490 --> 00:00:09.230 member of the Be Podcast Network. 00:00:09.230 --> 00:00:11.120 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:11.210 --> 00:00:14.750 You can find me on all the socials at Jethro Jones today. 00:00:14.755 --> 00:00:16.970 I'm excited to have Jamie Donally on the program. 00:00:16.970 --> 00:00:19.470 She is a passionate technology enthusiast. 00:00:19.470 --> 00:00:23.640 She began her career as a math teacher and later moved into instructional technology. 00:00:24.150 --> 00:00:27.120 Her desire to build relationships has created opportunities to collaborate with 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:28.950 students and educators around the world. 00:00:29.279 --> 00:00:33.210 She provides staff development and training on immersive technology 00:00:33.210 --> 00:00:34.710 and as an ed tech consultant. 00:00:35.009 --> 00:00:37.740 And our latest adventures include the launch of Global Maker Day 00:00:37.740 --> 00:00:40.200 and the ar vr and EDU community. 00:00:40.769 --> 00:00:44.279 She's also an author and speaker on the practical use of augmented reality 00:00:44.279 --> 00:00:45.840 and virtual reality in the classroom. 00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:49.319 So I'm excited to have her as a part of a vision for learning. 00:00:49.710 --> 00:00:51.180 Jamie, welcome to the show. 00:00:51.180 --> 00:00:52.080 Thanks for being here. 00:00:52.545 --> 00:00:53.685 Jaime Donally: Thank you so much. 00:00:53.685 --> 00:00:54.345 I love it. 00:00:54.495 --> 00:00:55.155 Thank you. 00:00:55.410 --> 00:00:58.990 Jethro Jones: Yeah, and so what, from our conversation today is most 00:00:58.990 --> 00:01:00.700 valuable you think, for our audience? 00:01:02.330 --> 00:01:04.700 Jaime Donally: I think the most exciting thing that we talked about is 00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:08.120 really looking at how this technology is gonna affect the classrooms, how 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:12.259 to better prepare for it, while also looking through that practical lens 00:01:12.265 --> 00:01:17.309 of what is purposeful, how do you set up, good implementation and how to 00:01:17.309 --> 00:01:19.679 collaborate across different departments. 00:01:20.954 --> 00:01:21.644 Jethro Jones: Lots of good stuff. 00:01:21.644 --> 00:01:22.604 Talked about a ton. 00:01:23.019 --> 00:01:23.854 It is great. 00:01:23.904 --> 00:01:29.864 For me, the valuable thing was hearing you talk about the idea of looking at 00:01:29.869 --> 00:01:31.814 what your objectives and goals are First. 00:01:32.339 --> 00:01:35.459 Then deciding how to implement the technology after the fact. 00:01:35.579 --> 00:01:40.049 So rather than saying, here's this shiny tool, what can we do with it? 00:01:40.379 --> 00:01:41.909 Say, what do we wanna do? 00:01:41.999 --> 00:01:45.539 And which tool best meets the needs of our kids and our teachers? 00:01:45.539 --> 00:01:46.919 I think that's a great way to do it. 00:01:47.409 --> 00:01:50.889 so we'll have my interview with Jamie here in just a moment. 00:01:52.014 --> 00:01:53.874 Jamie, you're wearing the meta glasses. 00:01:53.984 --> 00:01:55.874 you gotta tell me about that. 00:01:55.874 --> 00:02:00.914 Are you seeing displays in front of me or can you I haven't even used those. 00:02:00.914 --> 00:02:01.964 So tell me about those. 00:02:02.354 --> 00:02:04.574 Jaime Donally: So actually they had. 00:02:05.019 --> 00:02:08.559 Ar built in initially in this particular model. 00:02:08.899 --> 00:02:11.509 they retracted there at the end, so it was pulled out. 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:14.399 but it was supposed to and it did not have it. 00:02:14.404 --> 00:02:17.309 And I was bummed about that when I first found out because I was 00:02:17.309 --> 00:02:19.049 like, oh, I still wanna get 'em. 00:02:19.049 --> 00:02:22.589 But that's a bummer for certainly in this iteration, it does 00:02:22.589 --> 00:02:24.479 not have augmented reality. 00:02:24.839 --> 00:02:26.394 But then I thought, oh, it'd be fun. 00:02:26.394 --> 00:02:28.464 But now I'm like, I use them. 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:32.639 For my exercises, I use them for, communication. 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:35.699 So anytime I wanna talk to somebody, it just comes in right here. 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:37.539 it's very private people. 00:02:37.539 --> 00:02:40.359 If they hear anything, it's like they know something that they hear, but 00:02:40.359 --> 00:02:42.549 they can't hear anything specific. 00:02:42.904 --> 00:02:45.424 I can listen to music really crystal clear. 00:02:45.424 --> 00:02:50.884 I hear conversations, they hear me clear than being on any other type of headset. 00:02:51.244 --> 00:02:55.504 and I think that just the flexibility it has, my music connected to Apple, 00:02:55.814 --> 00:02:59.044 my Apple Music and has all the connections that I would want, I can 00:02:59.044 --> 00:03:03.374 actually livestream 'cause you have two cameras here, to be able to capture. 00:03:03.374 --> 00:03:06.644 So I could say, Hey, meta, take a photo. 00:03:08.294 --> 00:03:09.014 There you go. 00:03:09.014 --> 00:03:10.124 I got a picture of you right 00:03:10.514 --> 00:03:10.904 Jethro Jones: Cool. 00:03:10.934 --> 00:03:12.134 text it to me afterward 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:13.619 Jaime Donally: I will, I'll, 00:03:13.634 --> 00:03:13.934 Jethro Jones: 'cause I 00:03:14.009 --> 00:03:15.449 Jaime Donally: then I can capture a video. 00:03:15.499 --> 00:03:19.729 I actually have access to meta ai, so everything that I would 00:03:19.729 --> 00:03:23.534 wanna know, I could just ask on the fly and speak to them, and 00:03:23.534 --> 00:03:25.214 then ask them to text me with it. 00:03:25.219 --> 00:03:29.444 Or ask meta AI to then text it to somebody else. 00:03:29.494 --> 00:03:34.114 And even right now, there's actually a vision aspect of it, or it can capture 00:03:34.114 --> 00:03:37.354 a photo and then you're asking for information based upon that photo. 00:03:37.354 --> 00:03:38.284 what can I wear today? 00:03:38.654 --> 00:03:40.934 if I'm looking through a mirror, things like that. 00:03:40.934 --> 00:03:45.844 So the flexibility and the technology is actually super seamless. 00:03:46.114 --> 00:03:48.844 It's super, I wanna say non-disruptive. 00:03:49.084 --> 00:03:51.634 So I think that, the, I'm using it. 00:03:51.904 --> 00:03:52.774 All the time. 00:03:52.834 --> 00:03:54.484 It's hard to go without it, actually. 00:03:54.724 --> 00:03:57.454 So first I was like, eh, I got it back in October, and I 00:03:57.454 --> 00:03:58.474 was like, yeah, this is fun. 00:03:58.684 --> 00:04:01.264 But the more that they've been releasing and the more that I'm getting 00:04:01.264 --> 00:04:05.439 familiar with it, the more I just, I prefer it more than anything else. 00:04:06.254 --> 00:04:10.424 Jethro Jones: it's really interesting and like the, The Vision Pro is definitely 00:04:10.424 --> 00:04:17.554 not as small or lightweight and it's like the best thing that I've seen from 00:04:17.559 --> 00:04:23.404 it is this idea of locking in and like when I put it on, I go into work mode. 00:04:23.494 --> 00:04:26.794 And that for me has been really nice. 00:04:26.794 --> 00:04:30.454 And over the past few weeks that I've had the Vision Pro that's been. 00:04:30.844 --> 00:04:33.674 That's how I know I'm working because I'm wearing this thing. 00:04:33.674 --> 00:04:37.844 And and I do believe that Apple is eventually gonna come out with something 00:04:37.844 --> 00:04:40.214 like what you're wearing, And you've been, 00:04:40.484 --> 00:04:41.564 Jaime Donally: we're all excited about. 00:04:41.564 --> 00:04:44.444 that's where it should have been to from the get go. 00:04:44.444 --> 00:04:44.894 Really. 00:04:45.074 --> 00:04:49.544 You'd think after this time in so many years of them working on this project, 00:04:49.764 --> 00:04:50.934 that's where they would've went. 00:04:50.934 --> 00:04:55.734 I think that there was just, there's major issues with batteries and 00:04:55.784 --> 00:04:58.004 the requirement of how it fits you. 00:04:58.004 --> 00:05:02.294 They got to see the proof of concepts done by meta with all of 00:05:02.294 --> 00:05:04.454 the Quest, which I have 'em all. 00:05:05.019 --> 00:05:08.319 seeing how they started and where they've gone, and then the complaints about, 00:05:08.419 --> 00:05:12.609 on their face and the heat and, rubbing and things of that sort on the skin. 00:05:12.999 --> 00:05:16.179 So they've been able to see all this taking place while they're just patiently 00:05:16.184 --> 00:05:20.684 waiting before they release and Apple does, Like they, they get it right. 00:05:20.804 --> 00:05:24.584 And that's, I've been so excited about the Vision Pro for that very reason. 00:05:25.404 --> 00:05:27.734 Jethro Jones: and I've gotta say I know some people have talked 00:05:27.734 --> 00:05:32.704 about, some discomfort and some, feeling of this weight on your face. 00:05:33.004 --> 00:05:36.979 To be honest, I have not experienced those negative things. 00:05:36.979 --> 00:05:38.304 It feels I. 00:05:38.359 --> 00:05:39.319 Quite comfortable. 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:41.299 Yes, I know there's something on my face. 00:05:41.409 --> 00:05:45.149 especially the first couple days I noticed it, but now it doesn't 00:05:45.149 --> 00:05:47.759 bother me and I use it probably I. 00:05:47.804 --> 00:05:51.234 Three to four hours per day, pretty comfortably. 00:05:51.354 --> 00:05:55.884 I am almost always on my computer with an extended display. 00:05:56.154 --> 00:06:00.444 The reason we're not recording this with me wearing it is because, 00:06:00.564 --> 00:06:04.194 it's not quite there yet for doing the kinds, that kind of thing. 00:06:04.194 --> 00:06:06.474 And so Zoom, for example. 00:06:06.854 --> 00:06:09.104 donks out after a few minutes. 00:06:09.154 --> 00:06:11.314 I haven't gotten through a full zoom call with it on yet. 00:06:11.674 --> 00:06:15.034 I've gone through many hours of FaceTime calls and it is actually a 00:06:15.034 --> 00:06:17.849 delight to use during FaceTime calls. 00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:21.829 So you've been talking about this stuff for a long time,. 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:27.809 Let's talk about AR in education and because this is an area that you've 00:06:27.809 --> 00:06:32.839 been on the forefront of for many years and, and what about AR and 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.259 VR in education makes you excited? 00:06:36.694 --> 00:06:40.614 Right now, what are the things you're seeing that, that are just, getting you 00:06:40.614 --> 00:06:41.969 up in the morning and excited about it? 00:06:43.374 --> 00:06:47.454 Jaime Donally: I tend to lean on for my excitement isn't just the, 00:06:47.574 --> 00:06:49.464 The latest, greatest technology. 00:06:49.524 --> 00:06:52.374 I wouldn't say everybody needs a vision pro in their classroom, nor 00:06:52.374 --> 00:06:54.534 would I say everybody needs a quest. 00:06:54.874 --> 00:07:00.819 I would say that there is specific use cases, but I really get excited about 00:07:00.824 --> 00:07:02.859 the practical use of the technology. 00:07:03.069 --> 00:07:06.939 So more often than not using the devices we all have in our pockets already, 00:07:07.339 --> 00:07:13.039 that to me is going to, really hit home for most con for more students. 00:07:13.300 --> 00:07:16.810 For most classroom situations, and there's no learning curve 00:07:16.810 --> 00:07:18.250 with some new device, right? 00:07:18.250 --> 00:07:21.790 So I think that, when we're using this kind of technology, I'm super 00:07:21.790 --> 00:07:26.260 passionate about where can we start right, right away without any, problems 00:07:26.260 --> 00:07:27.435 or barriers that you're gonna face. 00:07:28.770 --> 00:07:32.780 I'm also very much practical about what we bring into the classroom. 00:07:32.780 --> 00:07:35.930 So jumping in head first is not my approach, nor do I 00:07:35.930 --> 00:07:37.340 recommend it to other people. 00:07:37.610 --> 00:07:42.185 I think it is, exciting to see new technologies, but really talking through 00:07:42.395 --> 00:07:46.355 collaborating with schools and making sure that they understand what they're 00:07:46.355 --> 00:07:48.845 getting into and how to avoid as many. 00:07:49.205 --> 00:07:51.035 Roadblocks that they're gonna face. 00:07:51.375 --> 00:07:55.455 and that is typically something an afterthought after a purchase. 00:07:55.455 --> 00:07:57.765 So somebody will say, Hey, we bought a thousand of these. 00:07:57.765 --> 00:08:00.415 And it's oh my gosh, do you realize what you just did? 00:08:00.785 --> 00:08:04.880 so there's this caution that I have for people that I, I would really love 00:08:04.880 --> 00:08:06.740 to chat with you and I always chat. 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:10.400 I probably on a weekly basis do I chat with schools and talk through some of 00:08:10.400 --> 00:08:11.660 the things that they're implementing. 00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:12.980 So I love being a part of that. 00:08:13.280 --> 00:08:14.450 But most. 00:08:14.685 --> 00:08:17.955 Importantly Jethro, I think that most people don't think about 00:08:18.285 --> 00:08:22.255 is, that they haven't actually created any objectives or goals. 00:08:22.795 --> 00:08:26.605 And so that part I really love being a part of because once we can clearly 00:08:26.605 --> 00:08:31.675 identify what they wanna accomplish from any technology, then helping them 00:08:31.675 --> 00:08:35.155 gather the right tools, seeing where the students are truly struggling, helping 00:08:35.155 --> 00:08:39.475 'em reach those needs in ways that they could not do without the technology, 00:08:39.625 --> 00:08:41.455 that part really gets me excited. 00:08:41.880 --> 00:08:44.400 Jethro Jones: Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because that's been my 00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:46.590 approach with technology as well. 00:08:46.650 --> 00:08:50.190 What is it that you're really trying to do and then the tool 00:08:50.250 --> 00:08:52.380 we can find to make that happen? 00:08:52.590 --> 00:08:57.735 and what's great about AR and VR is that there's more opportunities now for. 00:08:58.950 --> 00:09:02.160 You to do something and, but that doesn't mean that's the only opportunity 00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:04.680 or that's the always the best thing. 00:09:04.760 --> 00:09:09.590 just to segue into artificial intelligence real quick, one of the things that I've 00:09:09.590 --> 00:09:15.110 just loved about AI is that creating unique and personalized experiences 00:09:15.110 --> 00:09:20.750 for every student is so much easier with AI than it has been in the past. 00:09:21.050 --> 00:09:25.340 It used to be a big load on the teacher's shoulders to do that, and now. 00:09:25.745 --> 00:09:29.225 It's a piece of cake because you say create 30 different scenarios 00:09:29.495 --> 00:09:34.115 for this one problem, and I want it to be according to this table. 00:09:34.565 --> 00:09:36.965 Joey likes these kinds of things. 00:09:37.205 --> 00:09:38.615 Eloise likes football. 00:09:39.215 --> 00:09:44.195 Michelle likes this and being able to tie it into those things that are 00:09:44.195 --> 00:09:48.315 then personalized for those kids, that kind of stuff is just powerful. 00:09:48.435 --> 00:09:53.165 And what a great opportunity to be able to use that, to customize 00:09:53.170 --> 00:09:54.875 and personalize for our students. 00:09:55.315 --> 00:09:58.225 Jaime Donally: You know what's so funny is I'm thinking clearly on the opposite 00:09:58.225 --> 00:10:02.395 end, that you're giving out a lot of information about that student, so 00:10:02.395 --> 00:10:04.975 being extremely prepared and trained. 00:10:04.975 --> 00:10:08.995 Gained on how to make sure you are getting the benefits of AI 00:10:09.295 --> 00:10:11.065 without giving too much information. 00:10:11.065 --> 00:10:14.305 That could be really sensitive information about those students, 00:10:14.305 --> 00:10:18.315 whether it be accessibility issues, whether it be, their interests that 00:10:18.315 --> 00:10:22.455 now become targeted ads at them, whatever that might be in the future. 00:10:22.460 --> 00:10:23.385 Like I. 00:10:23.830 --> 00:10:26.800 I am so cautious about like this. 00:10:26.800 --> 00:10:28.900 I love ai, I share on ai, right? 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:34.190 But I, also see that equally balancing out the risk, right? 00:10:34.190 --> 00:10:37.670 And recognizing what potential information can be out there. 00:10:37.670 --> 00:10:41.870 So while personalization today might be possible because we're giving 00:10:41.870 --> 00:10:45.500 this information, what does that mean for tomorrow when it comes 00:10:45.500 --> 00:10:48.650 to that same information being used against them, if you will. 00:10:48.700 --> 00:10:53.400 Maybe those tests actually recognize where somebody is struggling 00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:57.600 and it makes assessments that pressure, that struggle, right? 00:10:57.810 --> 00:10:58.590 Who knows? 00:10:58.830 --> 00:11:01.590 Like you just think about somebody actually using or leveraging 00:11:01.595 --> 00:11:04.530 this information in a wrong way, and that's possible too. 00:11:04.610 --> 00:11:07.730 It's really interesting and I, again, I feel like there's 00:11:07.730 --> 00:11:09.500 a balance with AR and VR too. 00:11:09.780 --> 00:11:13.585 that there's people that ready to jump in and try these new things. 00:11:13.765 --> 00:11:16.515 They're ready to give every kid a meta, RayBan glasses 00:11:16.515 --> 00:11:17.925 and it's like, no, no, no, no. 00:11:18.765 --> 00:11:22.635 The AI built in, let's think about like your student speaking into 00:11:22.635 --> 00:11:25.935 that system, if you will, and what kind of concerns there might be. 00:11:25.935 --> 00:11:28.065 do we love meta for its privacy? 00:11:28.430 --> 00:11:28.910 No. 00:11:28.940 --> 00:11:29.720 No, we don't. 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.020 So all of these questions I think are really important. 00:11:33.020 --> 00:11:37.490 One, to establish a trust within our communities, and two, to know where this 00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:39.500 technology has a potential of going. 00:11:39.740 --> 00:11:42.350 There's great things, and then there's risks too, and you 00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:43.610 gotta weigh out those risks. 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:48.470 Jethro Jones: Yeah, and it's important to look at the risks as well, and not just. 00:11:48.755 --> 00:11:52.475 I think that because of technology exists that it's all 100% good. 00:11:53.145 --> 00:11:57.055 so let's talk about that layer that you talked about with, helping 00:11:57.060 --> 00:12:00.445 people know, like what their goals are and objectives are. 00:12:00.805 --> 00:12:05.185 W what is the process that you go through to help someone look at that as 00:12:05.190 --> 00:12:07.135 they're evaluating a piece of technology? 00:12:07.770 --> 00:12:10.170 Jaime Donally: I usually recommend starting with the struggle. 00:12:10.290 --> 00:12:15.840 where are your particular students struggling year after year, which usually 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.270 is attributed back to the teacher, right? 00:12:18.510 --> 00:12:22.890 So that's hard to reflect on sometimes, but you gotta say, and I know for me, I 00:12:22.895 --> 00:12:25.980 really struggled with certain concepts to be able to teach because maybe I 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:29.970 didn't have a great foundation on that concept as a former math teacher, if 00:12:29.970 --> 00:12:33.390 they didn't have that really solid foundation, how were they supposed 00:12:33.390 --> 00:12:34.770 to learn something more advanced? 00:12:35.125 --> 00:12:38.365 When they couldn't even get the concepts here, they're learning a song and a dance, 00:12:38.365 --> 00:12:42.565 if you will, but I think that's where this technology can really support those 00:12:42.565 --> 00:12:45.085 learners to understand in greater depth. 00:12:45.445 --> 00:12:48.025 So going back and reflecting on let's talk about it. 00:12:48.035 --> 00:12:51.275 where do you notice in scores your benchmark exams, whatever it might 00:12:51.275 --> 00:12:55.205 be, where do you notice your students consistently struggle year after year? 00:12:55.265 --> 00:12:59.135 And oftentimes they'll be like, oh yeah, and they can name it pretty easily, this 00:12:59.135 --> 00:13:01.325 is my area, or their area of weakness. 00:13:01.375 --> 00:13:04.105 and then you can say, okay, that's super abstract. 00:13:04.105 --> 00:13:05.695 That's hard for them to understand. 00:13:05.695 --> 00:13:08.665 So how do we bring this back to something tangible for them? 00:13:08.975 --> 00:13:12.635 how do we really make sure we're aligning with what they enjoy doing? 00:13:12.635 --> 00:13:14.465 Some kids would never put on a headset. 00:13:14.895 --> 00:13:16.605 some kids get really sick in a headset. 00:13:16.605 --> 00:13:20.475 But let's talk about maybe when it comes to the augmented reality and what 00:13:20.475 --> 00:13:22.185 kind of devices do you have available. 00:13:22.365 --> 00:13:26.025 So while this may be even good in theory, in the area you wanna approach 00:13:26.025 --> 00:13:27.525 and budget for in the future, and. 00:13:27.780 --> 00:13:30.600 Have discussions about this is what you have today. 00:13:30.810 --> 00:13:33.480 So where can we start to help them reach those goals? 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:36.330 there's o oftentimes those are the questions that we start 00:13:36.330 --> 00:13:40.475 having and initiating the general ideas of where they're going. 00:13:40.715 --> 00:13:45.160 And then once they've really started becoming masters in those certain areas. 00:13:45.470 --> 00:13:50.480 They're ready to move on and expand, 90% of our teachers, they don't wanna do ar 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:53.000 vr every week, nor should they, right? 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:54.680 I think there should be a variety of things. 00:13:55.010 --> 00:14:00.860 Anything I recommend in AR or vr, there should be a supplemental hands-on activity 00:14:00.860 --> 00:14:05.540 worksheets that they're supporting, group collaboration that's happening, mastering 00:14:05.540 --> 00:14:07.050 some, projects that they're doing. 00:14:07.415 --> 00:14:10.835 All of those factors that are aligned with learning it, so that 00:14:10.835 --> 00:14:14.155 you're meeting the various learning, preferences for our students. 00:14:14.155 --> 00:14:18.660 So I think that it usually boils down to us just having those, 00:14:18.740 --> 00:14:21.980 conversations and then those things really start getting revealed quickly. 00:14:23.430 --> 00:14:23.700 Jethro Jones: Yeah. 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:28.360 And one of the challenges that we face is that we see the shiny tools or some 00:14:28.365 --> 00:14:32.830 new toy and we're like, oh, I gotta adopt that and figure out how to use that. 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:33.100 I gotta. 00:14:33.795 --> 00:14:35.025 Bring this into my classroom. 00:14:35.025 --> 00:14:39.075 And then the professional development piece about how to use all these 00:14:39.075 --> 00:14:43.005 different tools and when to use them and when's appropriate and 00:14:43.005 --> 00:14:46.035 when's not appropriate, and looking at the risks and the challenges. 00:14:46.405 --> 00:14:47.965 those are all challenging also. 00:14:48.015 --> 00:14:50.175 and one of the things that I've said for a long time is that 00:14:50.175 --> 00:14:56.270 technology makes a good teacher, great and a bad teacher, even worse. 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:58.190 And it's a polarizing thing. 00:14:58.190 --> 00:14:59.720 Do you agree with that or disagree? 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:00.410 What do you think? 00:15:01.505 --> 00:15:04.805 Jaime Donally: Say, restate that and let me get my head around 00:15:04.805 --> 00:15:05.795 exactly what I'm thinking. 00:15:05.915 --> 00:15:06.155 This one, 00:15:06.170 --> 00:15:08.690 Jethro Jones: Rather than just throw it at you and then ask you a question. 00:15:09.110 --> 00:15:09.380 Yeah. 00:15:09.380 --> 00:15:13.190 So what I think is that technology makes a good teacher even better. 00:15:14.165 --> 00:15:17.225 They already have the foundational skills, and it makes a bad teacher 00:15:17.225 --> 00:15:21.815 even worse because if they're already a bad teacher, then bringing technology 00:15:21.815 --> 00:15:24.275 in isn't going to close any gaps. 00:15:24.275 --> 00:15:27.515 It's going to expose the areas where they're already weak. 00:15:27.890 --> 00:15:30.095 Jaime Donally: Yeah, I think that's certainly true. 00:15:30.195 --> 00:15:31.635 I think that sometimes. 00:15:32.370 --> 00:15:35.920 I've had experiences 'cause I was an instructional technologist, when 00:15:35.920 --> 00:15:37.630 I was in my last school districts. 00:15:38.110 --> 00:15:41.350 sometimes it inspired them to become better teachers. 00:15:41.800 --> 00:15:46.150 So it was like this aha moment where they got to see the benefits of using 00:15:46.155 --> 00:15:48.130 certain technologies, what it was like. 00:15:48.430 --> 00:15:48.880 Wow. 00:15:49.345 --> 00:15:50.545 My kids love this. 00:15:50.625 --> 00:15:52.305 look how much they're growing from this. 00:15:52.355 --> 00:15:57.845 maybe I need to really embrace this instead of just being stuck in my, 00:15:58.095 --> 00:16:01.360 little narrow window of what this should and shouldn't look like. 00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:04.635 so sometimes I've seen some good things come from it. 00:16:04.815 --> 00:16:05.985 It all really depends. 00:16:05.985 --> 00:16:08.825 I think it really, it just all depends on how they're using it. 00:16:08.925 --> 00:16:12.735 if they're using it in the right way for good or bad teacher, I think there's 00:16:12.735 --> 00:16:14.685 potential for benefit for our students. 00:16:15.330 --> 00:16:19.540 If they're using it in the wrong way, good or bad teacher, I think that there's 00:16:19.570 --> 00:16:22.390 some serious risk of damage, right? 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.730 it comes down to training. 00:16:23.790 --> 00:16:28.290 It comes down to, really I think collaboration, in my opinion. 00:16:28.530 --> 00:16:31.260 I don't think anybody should be doing any technology and silo. 00:16:31.530 --> 00:16:34.680 I think it really does take the de, those departments collaborating 00:16:34.680 --> 00:16:36.060 and working together as well as. 00:16:36.390 --> 00:16:38.500 Across, your teachers, your peers. 00:16:38.940 --> 00:16:41.880 but it really does also, it does take skill. 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:45.750 It does take time to understand and feel confident in using new tools. 00:16:45.750 --> 00:16:50.015 But, sometimes those tools can be very simple tasks that they can bring in 00:16:50.015 --> 00:16:51.545 that really make a powerful difference. 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:57.610 I hope, and I guess I, My hope in that is that it turns a bad teacher into a 00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:01.750 good one, because I think it could be an inspiration for them to want to be better. 00:17:04.310 --> 00:17:06.620 Jethro Jones: I think that's, I think everybody hopes that 00:17:06.790 --> 00:17:07.180 Jaime Donally: Yeah, 00:17:07.730 --> 00:17:10.130 Jethro Jones: but, and, and I, and I really. 00:17:10.185 --> 00:17:10.630 Jaime Donally: case. 00:17:10.780 --> 00:17:11.200 Yeah. 00:17:11.470 --> 00:17:13.670 Jethro Jones: not always the case, but I do really believe that it 00:17:13.670 --> 00:17:15.440 does have the potential to do that. 00:17:15.860 --> 00:17:18.590 I just don't think that the technology itself is, I don't 00:17:18.590 --> 00:17:21.380 think the technology itself is gonna change learning for someone. 00:17:21.380 --> 00:17:22.910 It's not gonna change teaching for someone. 00:17:23.260 --> 00:17:28.225 and if we've seen with kids and cell phones that if they don't have the skills 00:17:28.225 --> 00:17:33.805 to manage their emotions and their, Their, self-discipline about using the phone. 00:17:34.195 --> 00:17:39.455 Like my wife, is in a text thread with some youth who, who do some stuff in 00:17:39.455 --> 00:17:44.000 our church and she got a text message, from one of them at two o'clock 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.890 in the morning, and she was like. 00:17:46.185 --> 00:17:47.265 What is going on? 00:17:47.475 --> 00:17:50.285 You should not be texting at two o'clock in the morning, as a 00:17:50.285 --> 00:17:53.735 teenager and you shouldn't even have your phone during that time. 00:17:54.005 --> 00:17:58.775 'cause our kids don't have devices at that time and all of our devices are charged in 00:17:58.775 --> 00:18:01.145 the living room rather than in bedrooms. 00:18:01.145 --> 00:18:03.995 And so those are like the things that we do to make sure that. 00:18:04.885 --> 00:18:07.275 We're keeping our kids safe, that we're doing smart things, but 00:18:07.275 --> 00:18:09.225 that extends to schools as well. 00:18:09.225 --> 00:18:12.245 And just throwing technology in somewhere is not the best 00:18:12.245 --> 00:18:14.165 thing to do all the time either. 00:18:14.375 --> 00:18:18.195 so before, before we sign off, I do wanna talk about your, you've got 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.925 two books, about ar, vr, The first one is called, learning transported, 00:18:23.925 --> 00:18:27.315 augmented, virtual mixed reality for all classrooms, and the second one 00:18:27.315 --> 00:18:28.815 is called the immersive classroom. 00:18:28.815 --> 00:18:31.845 Create customized Learning Experiences with AR and vr. 00:18:32.925 --> 00:18:36.340 Now, we don't have time to go into everything about that, but what are 00:18:36.340 --> 00:18:40.195 the big ideas that you're sharing in these books that, that you want 00:18:40.195 --> 00:18:45.205 people, to get from them and how they should, could use these tools 00:18:45.205 --> 00:18:46.585 in their classrooms day to day? 00:18:47.665 --> 00:18:50.425 Jaime Donally: The first book was really just get a hook, right? 00:18:50.485 --> 00:18:54.625 Get interest in defining what this technology is, because there 00:18:54.625 --> 00:18:58.285 still was just not a whole lot of awareness as to what it was. 00:18:58.285 --> 00:19:01.555 So really defining it, giving the resources if they. 00:19:01.555 --> 00:19:06.125 We're interested in pursuing more, to get them started with some basic lesson plans. 00:19:06.125 --> 00:19:08.955 Some, just sparking the interest, if you will. 00:19:09.295 --> 00:19:13.155 the second book was really digging into making customized, content 00:19:13.185 --> 00:19:17.355 or opportunities using this technology, the power behind it. 00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:20.450 The stories behind it, how is it impacting lives? 00:19:20.690 --> 00:19:24.020 So there were some accessibility aspects into it, the digital 00:19:24.020 --> 00:19:25.520 citizenship part of it. 00:19:25.800 --> 00:19:30.675 the purpose behind it and the power, I just, I think that, moving from, Hey, 00:19:30.675 --> 00:19:35.745 this is where we start, and this is where you get the context of what this can do 00:19:35.745 --> 00:19:41.055 in the classroom to where should we go in, in the future using this technology? 00:19:41.055 --> 00:19:44.475 What is the power behind it is really intended in the next book. 00:19:47.395 --> 00:19:47.995 Jethro Jones: Very good. 00:19:48.095 --> 00:19:55.305 On that note, how easy is it for a teacher to create experiences with AR and vr? 00:19:55.365 --> 00:19:58.635 It seems like it would be an expensive, complicated endeavor. 00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:00.890 Jaime Donally: It's really not. 00:20:00.950 --> 00:20:05.810 I think there's a lot of creation tools out there to be able to build and design. 00:20:06.140 --> 00:20:09.410 I don't always say that's where we need to start, because I 00:20:09.415 --> 00:20:13.735 think getting the fundamentals of understanding the technology, but I. 00:20:13.785 --> 00:20:15.765 we usually started experiences, right? 00:20:15.765 --> 00:20:16.995 We're experiencing something. 00:20:17.335 --> 00:20:18.865 we're taking in that information. 00:20:18.865 --> 00:20:22.975 And then from there you start really saying, I need to build something 00:20:23.185 --> 00:20:24.925 that matches what our needs are. 00:20:25.295 --> 00:20:28.655 so then you really have the creation aspect starting to come into play 00:20:28.655 --> 00:20:32.405 once they become a little bit more mastered in, into the technology. 00:20:32.715 --> 00:20:36.075 so I love sharing code spaces. 00:20:36.075 --> 00:20:39.165 Code Spaces is a tool where you can create content. 00:20:39.390 --> 00:20:41.340 Augmented and virtual reality. 00:20:41.580 --> 00:20:42.690 It is so fun. 00:20:42.690 --> 00:20:47.830 It's like the ROBLOX for students, but it's education and, it is such a 00:20:47.835 --> 00:20:51.940 fantastic space to be able to design and build and collaborate together, 00:20:52.250 --> 00:20:55.810 to build 360 concepts or, learning. 00:20:56.120 --> 00:20:59.450 Augmented reality, virtual reality for them to go in and 00:20:59.450 --> 00:21:01.520 explore on multiple devices. 00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:03.440 It's flexible for Chromebooks. 00:21:03.470 --> 00:21:06.470 I think that's a biggie when we're talking about some of this technology 00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:08.450 and what devices are in the classroom. 00:21:08.660 --> 00:21:12.080 So there's just a lot of really great benefits to using that tool. 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.880 and it's such a simple tool that students will literally. 00:21:16.340 --> 00:21:20.360 Overspend, they will go home and work on it in the evenings and on the weekends. 00:21:20.600 --> 00:21:24.860 You cannot get those kits, so does a fantastic purchase because you certainly 00:21:24.860 --> 00:21:27.590 get the benefit of using a tool like that. 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:29.310 Jethro Jones: that's good. 00:21:29.705 --> 00:21:35.355 I like hearing these, examples of things that people are using because, even before 00:21:35.355 --> 00:21:36.880 we started recording, we both shared. 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:40.290 companies that are doing cool things that we hadn't even, neither of us 00:21:40.290 --> 00:21:43.310 had heard of before, and yet both of us are intimately aware of. 00:21:43.310 --> 00:21:46.550 And so Codespaces is one of those that I hadn't heard of yet. 00:21:46.610 --> 00:21:50.600 And so I'm glad to see something new and, and that's awesome. 00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:53.530 Jamie, thank you so much for being part of a vision for learning. 00:21:53.660 --> 00:21:56.990 where would you like to direct people to learn more about you and connect with you? 00:21:57.895 --> 00:22:03.955 Jaime Donally: They can check me out at my website AR VRIN edu.com. 00:22:04.015 --> 00:22:06.715 So ar vr and edu.com. 00:22:07.055 --> 00:22:11.850 lots of blog content, walk you through how to use tools step by step. 00:22:12.610 --> 00:22:15.240 Links, use cases and all of the above. 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:19.930 also I wanna recommend a really incredible platform that's a hundred percent 00:22:19.930 --> 00:22:24.070 free for classrooms, and that's the Verizon Innovative Learning Platform. 00:22:24.380 --> 00:22:27.560 I don't know if you've checked that out, Jethro, but they have so many 00:22:27.565 --> 00:22:32.180 augmented and virtual reality tool tools, including the McGraw Hill AR app 00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:33.440 that I've been sharing out like crazy. 00:22:34.130 --> 00:22:38.360 Tons of amazing experiences for our students in the classroom, so 00:22:38.690 --> 00:22:42.290 definitely check them out because there's so many additional resources 00:22:42.290 --> 00:22:43.940 out there for them to go and explore. 00:22:44.120 --> 00:22:44.960 Completely free. 00:22:45.460 --> 00:22:47.140 Jethro Jones: Yeah, there's a lot of cool stuff there. 00:22:47.140 --> 00:22:48.880 I have, checked that out before. 00:22:49.230 --> 00:22:51.960 Jamie, thank you so much for being part of a vision for learning. 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:53.070 It was great to chat with you today. 00:22:53.525 --> 00:22:53.815 Jaime Donally: Yeah. 00:22:53.815 --> 00:22:54.880 It was great talking to you. 00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:55.840 Thank you so much.