Welcome to Speak the Truth, a podcast devoted to giving biblical truth for educating, equipping, and encouraging the individual and local church in counseling and discipleship. Hello. Hello. Hello. We are still on the road in a well, now the location has been disclosed, but I am joined with a special guest who's been on the podcast, I don't know, three maybe four times.

You, your wife. I think a few times, but I've got Curtis Solomon with me. Curtis, how are doing brother?

Doing fantastic, Mike. Thanks so much for having me back on the show.

Yes. And I am so thankful that I have you back on the show and to the fact that we got to enjoy, I guess we can't call it a hike, can we?

No, definitely not. It reminded me of that Nate Bargetzi sketch where the parking lot was in sight to hold ours was not. Yeah. It was a not a hike. It was a walk.

Yeah. For sure.

Although we did see a buck. I think a four or five point.

That's a good sized buck. Yeah. We saw a buck. We had to get off. There was mud.

So it's not it was almost a hike.

Yeah. There was a there was a few hiking elements to it.

Yep. Almost five miles too. So Yeah.

That was. I got back and told Shauna and she said, how far did you guys go? And I was like, I think it was like three or four miles. She's really? She didn't think that she'd be able to do it, but she could do it.

She could do it.

She could do it. Alright. Thank you, Curtis, for being with us. And we've got Curtis on. We're at the Made to Minister Conference and we just wanted to take some time to get in.

As many of you guys know sometimes we in our episodes we'll break through a few scripture verses and I don't know you guys may remember our counseling through Psalms, the ABC resource that we had that believe. Actually, that was the first counseling through series book that we had. Part of the conference theme here is going through Psalms 46 since I really liked Curtis's title and everything that he's doing with his text. I just really walk you through scripture on the podcast together. Before we jump into that, Curtis, you wanna share a little bit about just some recent transition, the things that you're excited about, maybe do a little bit about Boyce.

Whatever you feel like sharing, but love for our listeners to hear how you've been and what you're excited about.

Yeah, thanks so much for the opportunity to do that. I'm excited as many of your listeners, I'm sure have been following the work of the Biblical Counseling Coalition, as well as ABC and the work that you guys are doing. And it's been almost a decade where I've been leading the BCC. I've felt like the Lord was leading me to other work. And I'm really excited to stay a part of the BCC, but handed over to Kevin Carson to run.

And in light of that, I'm continuing my role at Boyce College and replacing my BCC time with a new ministry my wife and I started called the Sentinel Institute. Boyce College, if people are unfamiliar with you probably, if you have high school students, I highly encourage you to check it out. It's a wonderful Bible centered college where if you come and study English or business or communications or biblical counseling, you're going to get it from a biblical worldview. The biblical counseling ministry there, the biblical counseling students, I get the blessing of coordinating that program. So I get to teach them and help run that program.

And then last year we rolled out two new degree programs where students could come for five years, get an undergraduate in biblical counseling and a graduate degree, a master's degree, either a master of arts in biblical counseling or a master of divinity degree. If you have high schoolers, check it out. If you're interested in going back and getting a graduate certificate, Southern Baptist Seminary has wonderful counseling opportunities or training opportunities there for anything from a three course graduate certificate all the way up to a PhD. So check those out. The Sentinel Institute, I really am excited about because we are taking my passions of empirical research and biblical counseling, the Bible and helping people with the Word of God and caring for people who've been impacted by trauma and putting it all together.

The Sentinel is the reason we chose that title is the Sentinel is the person who stands on the wall to guard the guardians. If you ever were at a see a military base, there are people who are watching guard at the gates. Ancient times, they'd be standing on a tower and they're protecting the warriors, protecting they're the wounded. They're protecting lots of people. And we are taking that concept to highlight the reality that we want to support ministries that are working directly with people impacted by trauma through helping them understand what they're doing, whether or not it's grounded in scripture and whether or not it actually works.

Our ministry, the Sentinel Institute is going to focus our work around three main things, research, resources and reforms. The research piece is where we're gonna do biblical scholarship, stuff like we're gonna talk about today, digging into the scriptures and showing how God's word has so much to say about people who've been through the worst kind of suffering you can imagine. And then also empirical research. The seed was actually planted. The sentinel seed, so to speak, was planted back in 2020 when I did my dissertation demonstrating that Mighty Oaks, their legacy program was very effective at helping veterans who'd been through post traumatic stress situations.

And that program saw seventy one percent of the people who went through that program had a clinically significant reduction in their PTSD symptoms. And almost half of those went to the point of what would be considered remission. Like they wouldn't actually score as having PTSD if they took the assessment for that. So it was just really powerful data to show that this program really works. They could take that information and go raise support, advocate for veterans to have the right to use faith based treatment, all kinds of things.

So other groups started coming, including ones that were run by friends of mine saying, Hey, could you do a similar study for us? And I thought, Man, I would really love to be able to do that, but I don't have time. But that planted a seed that has grown over the last few years and now is the time that we're going to get to do that. Working with groups that serve trauma populations, domestic violence, addictions, foster care, refugees, veterans, first responders, all of those groups to help the ministries understand what they're doing is scripturally sound and effective. Then from that research, producing resources, like I said, blogs on scripture, how does the Bible address things like psychedelics?

How does the Bible help us understand particular passages and what they say the issue of trauma as well as best practices. So as we're gathering that information, that data from all these different groups, we'll identify these things are the most effective ways to administer to people, putting out those kinds of resources. And then the reform piece is the longer term goal of being able to actually use that information to advocate for churches, academic institutions, even legislatures to promote biblically faithful treatment for people struggling with trauma. We actually are really excited. Our first study that we're going to do in 2026 is actually jumping ahead of where I thought we would be initially.

We're going to be doing a study to survey suicidality among the special operations community, both active and veteran community. We had a congressman who's a former Navy SEAL who said, Man, I really want to shed light on this problem and then point people to real solutions. So we're really excited about that. We're in the building phase. We need donors to come along and support.

So if you're excited about that, jump on our website, thesentinelinstitute.org, and you can sign up to donate, give a recurring monthly gift or individual gift, whatever we're really looking for that. And then also if you run a ministry that works with people who are experiencing trauma, reach out to us. We can talk about what it would look like to set up a study of your ministry. It's been really well received. So, after the conference season this fall, I've realized I have more work to do than I can definitely do quickly, but we definitely want to help encourage those ministries.

Yeah, thank you for sharing that Curtis. And I know man, that's been a passion of yours for quite some time. So the fact that door is not only open, but completely open and ready, ready to do ministry. And so for those of you who are listening, and just any sort of church churches that are represented that are listening, this is definitely something that's going to be really helpful. So if you have any questions, can reach out.

And I know he'll be glad to answer those questions because this is going to be missional because guess what, there's people in our churches constantly that are struggling with those things and because the church just isn't in a position to help them. They struggle being equipped, if you will, to handle that level of care. And so we want to help the church do that. So I know you obviously could have triaging conversations and things like that. And just as far as the mission of the Sentinel.

And so thank you for sharing that. And so before we move in, made you excited Curtis about this particular portion of Psalm 46 verses four through seven?

It was interesting when we got together and talked about breaking down Psalm 46. When I've spent time in Psalm 46, I tended to love the beginning and the end. They're phrases that we've all heard, right? Be still and know that I am God or God is your very present help in times of trouble. And those are the bookends.

So I was really excited to jump into one of those and being the low man on the totem pole, I got the middle section. But I was so thankful because it opened up Psalm 46 to me in ways that I had not seen before. So I was really excited about that. And as I dug into God's word, was so thankful to see obviously the whole Psalm flows together, but just how much the presence of God being with us is powerful to helping people who are going through suffering and pain and sorrow and trauma.

That's good. Let me read this as we get into it. And we're gonna be on verses one through 11. So we have God is our fortress Psalm 46. God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Therefore, we will not fear, though the earth gives way, though the mountains be moved into the heart of the sea, though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains tremble at its swelling, Selah. There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation of the most high. God is in the midst of her. She shall not be moved. God will help her with morning dawns.

The nations rage, the kingdoms totter. He utters his voice, the earth melts. The Lord of hosts is with us, the God of Jacob is our fortress, Selah. Come behold the works of the Lord, how he has brought desolations on the earth. He makes war cease to the end of the earth.

He breaks the bow and shatters the spear. He burns the chariots with fire. Be still and know that I am God. I will be exalted among the nations. I will be exalted in the earth.

The Lord of hosts is with us. The God of Jacob is our fortress, Selah. So with the reading of God's word, and obviously there's a lot going on there, I would argue that most people are familiar with verse 10, be still and know that I am God. Before getting to that point, Curtis, to your point, you had the joy and opportunity to get into verses four through seven. So would you just kind of walk us through this text or any context that you want to provide before we get to the verses that you focused on?

Yeah, it's really helpful as I was studying this, all the commentators recognize and agree that this Psalm is coming out of one of the contexts where Israel's enemies had surrounded it. It was insurmountable odds and God just miraculously intervenes. And I think that the story of Sennacherib's forces coming down from Assyria in the North, roughly twenty years after the Northern Kingdom fell is probably around the time that took place. And he's over in Lakish, Sennacherib is, and he sends his officers over to Jerusalem and warned Jerusalem, If you guys don't give up and surrender to us, we're just going to annihilate you. The story of that account is just such one of those powerful ones where the evil from God's enemies coming out of their mouths is just poignant.

Hezekiah is king at the time. Isaiah is a prophet and Hezekiah was not a perfect king. He messed up in a lot of ways. But in this instance, he does the right thing. He goes to Isaiah, he goes to God and cries out for God's deliverance and God hears him and delivers miraculously.

It's that instance where overnight the angel of the Lord goes out and wipes out 185,000 Assyrians. So it's just one of those times where you can't deny God intervened. And that's the context, the background of this Psalm. And it was encouraging because a lot of times when we're counseling people, there are circumstances and instances that there's a lot they can do. They can change things, they can modify what they believe, they can change their behaviors, they can grow in a lot of ways.

But there are other things where there's nothing you can do. You get a terminal cancer diagnosis, your child dies, you have a miscarriage, even losing a job, other things. There's lots of suffering that takes place. And especially as we're focusing in on trauma this weekend at the Made to Minister Conference, a lot of those things are absolutely 100% outside of our control. And to be reminded of God's presence, his protection, his provision in those moments is so powerful.

And that backdrop, that historical context is so helpful to us in understanding why this city of God that it talks about in verses four through seven is such a great image. It's because God is there, nothing can happen that's outside of his will to the people of God. So, yeah, that's the historical context there that I think is super important.

Yeah, that's good. Just starting with verse four, there's a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation of the most high.

Yeah. Yeah. That verse is one of the reasons I think that this account with Hezekiah is at the background because Hezekiah, if you've ever gotten to go to Jerusalem, you've maybe done the Hezekiah Tunnel hike where you get to walk. Think it's 0.7 miles or something like that. It's pretty long tunnel and cool historical thing, archeological dig.

But the imagery of the river that comes into the city of God would have been so poignant and powerful to the people in Jerusalem at that time. The river symbolizes both protection and provision because in ancient times a river around a city like the city of Rome exists because there's a river that surrounds a big part of it and it's kept enemies away from it for a long time. So this, the image of a river surrounding a city, keeping the enemies away, but also if you didn't have water, an army would come against you and siege that lay siege to the city. And as soon as your cisterns ran dry, you had about a week to go and then everybody's gonna be dehydrated. So Hezekiah had dug this tunnel that connected a spring on the edge of the city so that it could transport water into the middle of the city and they could withstand a siege.

So that imagery of God's both protection from his enemies, but also provision for his people in the midst of suffering is so poignant and so powerful. And it somewhat reminds us of one Corinthians ten thirteen, right? He's going to make a way for you to escape or he's going to give you the strength to endure whatever comes your way. So that's what verse four really represents. River his streams make glad the city of God, the holy habitation of the most high.

Doesn't just bear the name, the city of God, but it is where he habits, he lives. And he's called the most high there, which I get into later on in the message of referring back to that when I'm teaching on this, that part of the way that we grow in moving towards God and experiencing his presence is to remember his character and that most highness highlights the goodness of God, the character of God, the power of God. Because without that, without God being God, his presence isn't comforting. But because he is God and because of all of his attributes that he brings to bear and just his character who he is, then his presence is the most comforting thing we can have.

Yeah, and to that point, verse five, God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved. God will help her when morning dawns. It's just the comfort of because the provision, the protection, rest assured, the morning, when the morning dawns, he is still with he is still with him. And then obviously, verse six, the nations rage, the kingdom's totter. He utters his voice, the earth melts.

It's just chaos ensues, and yet God is in the midst of that chaos. And just the strength and how you use that as a visual to draw from those kind of struggling within trauma because obviously chaos being under siege and things like that. Any thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, think there's a lot because it's a poem because there's a song, there's a lot of symbolism going on, lot of activity going on and a lot of comparison and contrasting because you see even between verses three and four of this contrast between the seas that foam and roar and then this quiet river with streams, right? And the Lord speaking and the earth melting is contrasting against these kingdoms that are coming against God, right? Sennacherib, part of his message to the people of Israel is like, Hey, every other God, quote unquote, of all these other cities, of all these other nations has not been able to defend them. I've wiped them out. And God sits there on his throne and Hezekiah in his prayer says, But they're not gods, they're man made statues.

And God is sitting there saying, You think you're big stuff Sennacherib? It seems like in the world, right? We think about all the political chaos that's going on in our world now, whether it's in Israel and Palestine, Ukraine and Russia, Christians being killed in Nigeria, political chaos in The United States. We think these things are so big and so powerful and so significant. They are, right?

To one extent, we don't want to minimize or ignore that, but then it's, But God's voice speaks and the earth melts. It's just like, Lest you forget. And I think it's important for us to remember. And the beauty of it is God, where do we experience the voice of God? We experience the voice of God when we are reading his word, when we are submitting ourselves to a pastor who's preaching faithfully the word of God, when we're submitting ourselves to brothers and sisters in Christ who are opening up the word of God and ministering to our souls.

And the voice of God through his word brings just, there's so much power that it brings a divine peace, a peace that surpasses all understanding no matter what's going on. I think that's one of the beautiful things in the Psalm is you see that contrast. Yes, if we fix our eyes on the world and the chaos around us, it's overwhelming and terrible and whatever. But if we fix our eyes and our ears on the Lord, then we are not moved as verse four says, in the midst of her. Because God is in the midst of the city and we are in the city with God, we are not moved.

In verse five, that imagery of when the morning dawns, I think that's where, again, highlighting that historical context. The people woke up from, maybe they didn't even sleep because they're so scared of this army that's going to come in and invade. They wake up and he's gone. The enemy is defeated. God's mercies are new every morning.

And sometimes those mercies are just miraculous. Like we can't explain them. And other times they're okay, he's with us and we get up and we take a shower and we press forward with the day, but he's always there. And again, no matter what enemy comes against us because we have the power of God with us, we don't need to be afraid. Yeah, that's some of the imagery there in verses five and six that are so powerful and so encouraging to people no matter what their circumstances are.

Definitely in those moments of out of control chaos and trauma, we need to focus on that.

Yeah. I appreciate that because as you were saying that you alluded to the symbolism and beacon it's a song, And it's very poetic and symbolic, but always trying to submit this to a new covenant perspective that the city fortified our bodies being temples of the Holy Spirit, first Corinthians six, the reality of that streams of living water. All of that imagery finds itself in Christ who's with us in the spirit and dwells us. So all the external chaos and all the things that are happening, it's like the Old Testament imagery around these raging wars and all these things happening is just oftentimes, not to over spiritualize this, but I do see some correlations of just the personal reality, the tumultuous reality of sometimes with trauma and the things that ensue that are already happening internally and losing sight of the protection and provision that you alluded to earlier with sort of the immediate context of this, but where we find ourselves under the new covenant and the reality of the already not yet and where we find ourselves in our day and time and our relationship with Christ. How do we apply the reality of God's word to us in this.

Any concluding thoughts, Curtis, as you just think through just wrapping up with these few verses here that you get to teach on, just finding God in the midst of that.

Yeah, the verse seven is a refrain that's repeated in verse seven and then at the closing of the passage. So it's obviously an important part of the song where he says the Lord of hosts is with us, God of Jacob is our fortress. And it just reminds us of God's, the history of God and all that he's done for his people. And so we practically, we want to encourage ourselves and the people we're counseling to think about God's work in scripture, but also in their lives. If they are believers for any amount of time, they're gonna have had the opportunity to see God work in their lives.

Those moments where things feel out of control again, we can look back and find peace and comfort in that. And then the closing point, the biggest point as already hit on is that you're not in the city of God. His presence is not with you if you're not a believer in Jesus Christ. If you're not a part of the family of God, these promises and God's protection, his provision are not for you. They're not guaranteed for So entering into the presence of God means submitting our hearts and our lives to Jesus Christ as Lord and savior.

And then the spirit fills our hearts. He does fill us up with streams of living water and so much more. Have, as Paul so poignantly puts it, the same power that rose Jesus from the dead in us. And that's what will give us peace that surpasses all understanding.

Yeah, that's good. Obviously it all terminates in Christ. So with your title God's Presence in Our Pain, it's Christ like his presence, because he took on all the all ultimately all the pain, not to minimize the pain that people go through in ways that people are sinned against and just the really evil things that happen to people. But Christ took that and it gets applied to us. That protection and that provision is ours in Christ.

And so that presence does become powerful, but it's hard sometimes to really rest in that presence amidst the pain. And so just any encouraging last words on that for those who might be finding themselves in that particular part of the season where maybe the pain speaking louder than the Lord's presence?

Yeah, yeah, I think two things that came to mind. One is I love Paul two times, once in Romans, at least two times, once in Romans and once in first Corinthians talks about this light momentary affliction is nothing in comparison to the eternal weight of glory that awaits us. And I think sometimes we hear that and people think Paul's minimizing suffering, but it's actually quite the opposite. Yeah. He actually, especially in first Corinthians, because he says that I think in chapter four, but if you go back to chapter one, that's where he just says, we had the weight of death in us.

It was like our suffering was so bad, we wanted to die. Paul in those instances is not minimizing people's pain or suffering. And we should not do that to others. People should not do that to themselves. The point is to look to God and see how awesome and great and powerful eternity is going to be.

And as much as people want assurance that the pain is going to stop here and now, we can't guarantee that. But we can guarantee for those who are believers in Jesus Christ, the eternal weight of glory that awaits us in eternity is going to make all that suffering not just worth it, but minuscule in comparison. From the moment, grieve, weep, cry out. That's one of the other things in my, the other, the pre conference talk that I'm talking a lot about is God's weeping with us in our weeping, his affliction with us in our affliction from Isaiah 60 three:nine. And I think that's the other closing point is that God is with you in your present in your pain.

That doesn't mean he's just standing by aloof and distant and uncaring. He's right there with you, weeping when you weep, rejoice when you rejoice in righteousness. He loves you. He cares for you. So cry out to him.

He will be as this Psalm reminds us an ever present help in times of trouble. That's a help that you have referred to and leaned on in the past and can continue to anytime in the future.

Yeah, that's really good. And you were mentioning Paul's point in what is it? Second Corinthians four sixteen and seventeen, I believe, we're just So we do not lose heart for this light momentary affliction. It's hard to consider that in a transient manner. Yeah.

But but I think that's the purpose of his presence is to remind us of the eternity that awaits us to where in comparison you really can. It doesn't take away the pain, obviously, your but it gives you the perspective in the pain.

Yeah. And you're right. Think it's two Corinthians, not first.

Yeah. He's consistent. He reiterates himself from time to time on those different things. The only reason why know this is because I had to memorize that for one of my classes and so it's still there. At any rate, Curtis, man, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciated you being on. Guys, go check out his new website and all the information there. Really consider supporting their ministry. And we hope that you guys will be blessed. Thank you guys for listening.

We'll see you guys next time.