WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:11.906 --> 00:00:17.966 jethro_2_04-23-2025_143737: Welcome to Transformative Principle, where I help you stop putting out fires and start leading. 00:00:18.476 --> 00:00:19.976 I'm your host, Jethro Jones. 00:00:19.976 --> 00:00:22.676 You can follow me on Twitter at Jethro Jones. 00:00:35.216 --> 00:00:37.466 Jethro D. Jones: Welcome to Transformative Principal. 00:00:37.466 --> 00:00:41.576 I am very excited to have Dr. Sarah Ranney on the program today. 00:00:41.606 --> 00:00:45.206 She is the executive director of Lafayette Preparatory Academy. 00:00:45.476 --> 00:00:51.326 She's been there since 2014, and she's the proud parent to an LPA eighth grader. 00:00:51.806 --> 00:00:59.426 She believes that every child has an inable right to attain an excellent education, no matter their economic status, location, or background. 00:00:59.906 --> 00:01:03.086 She joined LPA after working as an instructional coach with. 00:01:03.086 --> 00:01:17.726 Teach for America, and there's a whole bunch more to her, but she has an EDD in school administration as well as an educational specialist and master's in school admission administration from the University of Missouri, St. Louis, where I am working on mine. 00:01:17.756 --> 00:01:24.776 She actually came and spoke to one of our classes and after talking to her I was like, man, she needs to be on Transformative principle. 00:01:24.776 --> 00:01:30.656 So, um, we're gonna talk with her and, uh, Sarah, welcome to Transformative Principle. 00:01:30.656 --> 00:01:31.251 Thanks for being here. 00:01:32.066 --> 00:01:33.506 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Thanks so much for having me. 00:01:34.136 --> 00:01:34.406 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 00:01:34.406 --> 00:01:35.006 My pleasure. 00:01:35.006 --> 00:01:46.361 So tell us first about Lafayette Preparatory Academy, um, and what, what makes it unique and different and what, what your is there as the executive director. 00:01:47.621 --> 00:01:57.701 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Well, I am incredibly biased on this particular topic, but, uh, Lafayette Preparatory Academy or LPA as we say, because, man, that's a mouthful for a name. 00:01:58.406 --> 00:02:02.186 We are in our 12th year as a school. 00:02:02.366 --> 00:02:06.386 We serve kids in St. Louis City in kindergarten through eighth grade. 00:02:06.896 --> 00:02:12.626 When we opened, we served kids in kindergarten through second grade, and then we've grown a grade per year. 00:02:12.896 --> 00:02:19.676 So our first graduating eighth graders we're in 2020, and this is my 11th year there. 00:02:21.311 --> 00:02:22.301 Jethro D. Jones: That's pretty awesome. 00:02:22.301 --> 00:02:26.531 So, um, it has always been a good school, right? 00:02:26.531 --> 00:02:29.201 And, and you are making it even better. 00:02:29.201 --> 00:02:34.181 You said, uh, I believe the quote is, LPA is killing it academically. 00:02:34.301 --> 00:02:35.506 So talk to us about that. 00:02:37.376 --> 00:02:42.476 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Well, you know, I would say when you're founding a school, you have a vision of where it is it you wanna be. 00:02:42.566 --> 00:02:58.526 And what we've done is just systematically work toward that vision and try to celebrate our successes along the way and ensure that we are continuing to find ways to get better and to, uh, continue to reach for what's next. 00:02:58.766 --> 00:02:59.786 You know, a couple of our. 00:03:00.141 --> 00:03:06.951 Theories and, and really our beliefs are one, in our school pledge it says, uh, I make mistakes so I can learn. 00:03:06.951 --> 00:03:10.731 I learn so I can succeed and I succeed so I can help others. 00:03:10.971 --> 00:03:15.386 I think we've really embraced that as a philosophy in our school as adults and children. 00:03:16.366 --> 00:03:17.146 Um, but. 00:03:18.641 --> 00:03:40.361 The, the whole reason that schools exist is to educate kids, and it sounds really silly and basic, but at the foundation of who we are and what it is that we're trying to do, we're trying to create a rigorous program for kids to excel and to do that, I think that you need to have a really strong academic program. 00:03:40.886 --> 00:03:44.006 A really strong program to help with social emotional learning as well. 00:03:44.006 --> 00:03:51.596 And how do those two things support each other so that you are helping to create well-rounded individuals? 00:03:53.151 --> 00:03:55.581 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, that that is so important because it's. 00:03:55.961 --> 00:04:01.751 It's not about only academics, and it's not about only social and emotional. 00:04:01.751 --> 00:04:03.911 It's you have to be able to combine them. 00:04:04.211 --> 00:04:15.761 It doesn't matter if you're a really good person, if you're dumb as a brick, and it doesn't matter if you're the smartest person in the world, if you're totally un ethical and a horrible person, and those are obviously extremes. 00:04:15.971 --> 00:04:19.151 But even when there's a little bit of push in one way. 00:04:19.496 --> 00:04:21.386 Uh, it can become unbalanced. 00:04:21.386 --> 00:04:25.166 And have you seen that unbalanced in the past? 00:04:25.166 --> 00:04:27.806 And, and what does that look like when it is unbalanced? 00:04:28.751 --> 00:04:36.131 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Yeah, I think that imbalance can come, uh, in any school and, and we've certainly toggled with that ourselves. 00:04:36.131 --> 00:04:38.981 I think at certain points we've shifted one way or the other. 00:04:39.221 --> 00:04:49.751 When we were founding, we were really focused on establishing a really strong culture and creating this joyful, loving environment, and it was important. 00:04:49.751 --> 00:04:51.821 It was absolutely important, but. 00:04:51.866 --> 00:05:03.806 I think we realized pretty quickly that that couldn't be an absence of high expectations for learning and having a really strong academic program. 00:05:04.196 --> 00:05:07.346 And then I think we pivoted a little bit too hard that way. 00:05:07.616 --> 00:05:16.496 It was like, okay, we wanna have like really strong learning happening here at LPA and so we're gonna relentlessly focus on that. 00:05:16.556 --> 00:05:18.806 And it was, um. 00:05:19.541 --> 00:05:27.821 It was like somewhat jarring for staff and families to be like, whoa, you know, what happened to, like, we love everybody and we want people to be happy. 00:05:28.241 --> 00:05:38.171 Um, and so I think now, you know, we're, we're striking that balance and we talk about creating a joyful community so that kids feel safe to learn. 00:05:38.531 --> 00:05:40.481 And that is really important. 00:05:40.481 --> 00:05:47.711 It's, it's, it is a both and you have to have, uh, the foundation for kids' safety and for. 00:05:48.626 --> 00:05:54.806 To be joyful learning and then you could see where they go from there and really take it to the next level. 00:05:57.346 --> 00:05:58.901 Jethro D. Jones: Uh, that's definitely important. 00:05:58.961 --> 00:06:03.911 Um, so your school is a, uh, charter school, is that correct? 00:06:04.556 --> 00:06:08.906 Dr. Sarah Ranney: We are, we're an independent public charter school, so that means there's not another one like us. 00:06:08.966 --> 00:06:14.396 We are homegrown in St. Louis and, uh, we're, you know, we're a public charter. 00:06:15.131 --> 00:06:15.401 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 00:06:15.401 --> 00:06:21.011 So you have this interesting, uh, thing also where you have what are called a catchment zones. 00:06:21.131 --> 00:06:22.721 Um, tell me about that. 00:06:22.721 --> 00:06:26.351 Because, uh, in my experience, I just haven't come across this before. 00:06:27.686 --> 00:06:33.086 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Yeah, so a catchment zone is an area where you get preference to be enrolled in our school. 00:06:33.086 --> 00:06:38.216 And you, um, many schools, many charter schools across the nation will have this. 00:06:38.456 --> 00:06:43.886 Our school's mission is really about serving, uh, the inner core of St. Louis City. 00:06:44.126 --> 00:06:47.426 And when we were founded, you know, there were certain neighborhoods that were like, okay. 00:06:47.456 --> 00:06:52.106 At the time, there didn't exist another option besides the district public school. 00:06:52.346 --> 00:06:54.566 And so our founders wanted to create. 00:06:54.631 --> 00:06:57.691 Another option, another free option for families. 00:06:58.081 --> 00:07:04.651 And um, when we first opened, of course, we weren't, uh, well known or popular. 00:07:04.651 --> 00:07:09.571 And so, uh, kids could apply from all over the city and, and absolutely have a spot. 00:07:09.571 --> 00:07:13.201 And, and anyone who lives in St. Louis City is eligible to attend our school. 00:07:13.201 --> 00:07:19.096 But to meet that mission of having the community impact, you know, thinking about. 00:07:20.171 --> 00:07:29.621 A small town school, but in the middle of St. Louis City where you have kids walking to and from school and um, you know, parents or neighbors, et cetera. 00:07:29.621 --> 00:07:35.651 And so we created catchment zones so that the closer you live to the school, the higher your chances are of getting in. 00:07:36.041 --> 00:07:48.281 It also helped to meet our mission, which we are diverse by design, school, by, and so we are looking to serve a diverse student population in our school, which is pretty, um. 00:07:49.421 --> 00:07:51.911 When we were founded was pretty atypical in St. 00:07:51.911 --> 00:07:52.331 Louis. 00:07:52.331 --> 00:07:58.841 We're very racially segregated in our city and uh, so our school was really seeking to bridge the. 00:08:02.006 --> 00:08:11.756 Jethro D. Jones: So, uh, does, does diverse by design mean that you are serving all of the black kids? 00:08:11.756 --> 00:08:16.856 Or does diverse by design mean that you want some of everybody who lives in St. Louis. 00:08:17.981 --> 00:08:18.191 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Yeah. 00:08:18.191 --> 00:08:29.801 So I mean, diverse by design can mean a variety of things, but for us, what we're looking to do is we're, um, we're looking to serve the population that existed in our first catchment zone when we were founded. 00:08:29.801 --> 00:08:36.911 Now that has changed over the time, um, but it's about socioeconomic status and race and. 00:08:37.496 --> 00:08:49.556 Of course for very, very important reasons legally, you know, we're not doing anything related to enrollment and, and, uh, but our design elements are saying we're creating an environment for all kids. 00:08:49.856 --> 00:08:59.546 I think what we commonly will see is that people tend to congregate towards people that are more similar to them, and that often aligns with race and class. 00:08:59.876 --> 00:09:06.866 And so our school is aiming to create an environment that is authentically welcoming to all people. 00:09:07.361 --> 00:09:12.161 Um, it also is looking at other elements of diversity, religious diversity. 00:09:12.161 --> 00:09:27.311 For example, you know, we have grown a pretty strong and significant Muslim population in our school and it really started with a couple of families from a mosque who were like stumbled upon us and then spread the word to other families. 00:09:27.341 --> 00:09:30.581 And pretty soon that really started to grow. 00:09:31.031 --> 00:09:34.151 Um, so I don't know, does that answer your question? 00:09:34.691 --> 00:09:40.211 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I mean there sometimes we use, uh, coded language to say things that we. 00:09:41.171 --> 00:09:43.571 people in the know really understand what we're saying. 00:09:43.571 --> 00:09:47.801 And, and other times we, we say things because that's what we really believe. 00:09:47.801 --> 00:09:50.591 And so that's what I was trying to, to get at. 00:09:50.591 --> 00:09:51.731 So thank you for that. 00:09:52.031 --> 00:10:02.831 Um, one of the things that you talked about in our class was this idea of, um, you didn't exercise where you asked people, what three words would you use to define our school? 00:10:02.831 --> 00:10:09.611 Will you talk a little bit more about that question and what that means and how you, why you did that and what you, what that led to? 00:10:10.451 --> 00:10:17.381 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Yeah, so I think that one of the most important things that we've done as we've grown this school is to solicit feedback all the time. 00:10:17.591 --> 00:10:23.141 So we get feedback from our staff, from our students, from our families, but also from visitors who come into our building. 00:10:23.501 --> 00:10:25.631 And one of my favorite questions to ask. 00:10:25.631 --> 00:10:33.006 People, no matter which category of, of folks you qualify, if you're a guest or if you're a family or a student or a staff member, is. 00:10:33.776 --> 00:10:40.166 Um, and especially love to do this with visitors as you're leaving our school today, what are three words that you would use to describe our school community? 00:10:40.496 --> 00:10:45.236 So you'll see that question in our family survey that we give out twice a year. 00:10:45.446 --> 00:10:47.426 You'll see that in our staff surveys. 00:10:47.426 --> 00:10:53.006 And then, um, when we have visitors in, I'll give a survey and ask for their feedback after their visit. 00:10:53.036 --> 00:10:54.386 And you'll see that question there too. 00:10:54.386 --> 00:11:02.546 And then I take all of these words and I put 'em in a word cloud generator and then see what pops up and like what are the words that really resonate with. 00:11:04.661 --> 00:11:09.161 Are part of our community, even if they're only part of our community for an hour long visit. 00:11:09.701 --> 00:11:14.471 And that to me is really helping us define whether or not we're meeting our mission. 00:11:14.861 --> 00:11:23.771 And so things like community and joy frequently come out as like the big bubble word that you're seeing in these word clouds and. 00:11:24.821 --> 00:11:26.441 That's what we're hoping to see. 00:11:26.441 --> 00:11:34.541 So when we're seeing like the elements of our core values popping up in this word cloud, to me that's speaking to our mission is living and breathing. 00:11:34.541 --> 00:11:36.251 It's not just something we're giving voice to. 00:11:37.776 --> 00:11:39.186 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I, I love that. 00:11:39.186 --> 00:11:42.966 And what, what's so good about that is that it really limits what people can. 00:11:43.436 --> 00:11:45.206 Can say you only have three words. 00:11:45.206 --> 00:11:53.216 So if it's more than that, like you miss the point and, but it also makes it so that you get a good idea of what is actually resonating. 00:11:53.306 --> 00:12:00.431 And a lot of times we say the things that we want to be there, but they don't actually, I. Exist. 00:12:00.461 --> 00:12:07.031 Like, we're, we're so aspirational in our vision that nobody can see how it's actually happening. 00:12:07.511 --> 00:12:07.931 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Mm-hmm. 00:12:08.111 --> 00:12:15.311 Jethro D. Jones: and that's unfortunate, but you're, you're seeing that those things are coming up again and again, which I think is, is really powerful. 00:12:17.107 --> 00:12:23.613 you also talked about your, Parent survey that you do and how you have good family support and involvement. 00:12:24.183 --> 00:12:30.753 Now, all charter schools seem to have better family support and involvement because people are choosing to go there. 00:12:31.083 --> 00:12:37.203 But yours, you know, you mentioned that you get 80% of your families fill out the survey, but what does that. 00:12:37.548 --> 00:12:41.358 Parent involvement look like and how do you, uh, encourage it, support it? 00:12:41.418 --> 00:12:49.578 How do you, um, help families be involved in more than just, you know, the, the regular day-to-day stuff? 00:12:50.788 --> 00:12:56.248 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Well, I think it is, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, that it isn't just about lip service. 00:12:56.308 --> 00:12:58.528 It really is this idea that. 00:12:59.193 --> 00:13:01.743 It really does take a village to raise a child. 00:13:01.743 --> 00:13:06.543 And what our school's doing is creating a village for us to raise kids together in. 00:13:06.633 --> 00:13:13.593 And so our founder, Dr. Susan Marino, who was also in my cohort at umsl, we completed our EDD together. 00:13:13.923 --> 00:13:18.453 Um, she, when she started the school, her daughter was in our founding kindergarten class. 00:13:18.923 --> 00:13:21.053 And you know, my son attends. 00:13:21.053 --> 00:13:22.643 Our teacher's kids are there. 00:13:22.643 --> 00:13:24.113 Our teacher's assistants kids are there. 00:13:24.113 --> 00:13:25.763 We've had custodians kids there. 00:13:26.123 --> 00:13:33.503 All of our staff members whose children are eligible to go to our school 'cause of their age and that they live in the city, we all send our kids to our school. 00:13:33.978 --> 00:13:43.668 And so that is just a piece of investment and it helps also give you a specific lens into the parent experience as well. 00:13:44.088 --> 00:13:47.268 And so you're, you are forming relationships with parents. 00:13:47.268 --> 00:13:57.048 You know, my son, he's only there for 12 more days, but, um, you know, I've become friends with his friend's parents and their. 00:13:57.313 --> 00:14:02.593 Very willing to tell me what they think about certain things, you know, when we're together. 00:14:02.593 --> 00:14:05.413 I mean, when they were younger it was like together at the park for a play date. 00:14:05.413 --> 00:14:13.453 And now of course it's a little bit different now that they're teenagers, but, um, it creates this true and authentic partnership and investment. 00:14:13.813 --> 00:14:18.433 So we, we start every year with what we call an intake conference. 00:14:18.493 --> 00:14:19.093 And. 00:14:19.878 --> 00:14:32.388 It is where our teachers and you just every year, not just when you're a new family, 'cause you always have a new teacher, but our teachers are asking our parents questions to build relationship with them because nobody wants that first call to be challenging. 00:14:32.448 --> 00:14:35.838 Nobody wants to like your kid really had a hard time today. 00:14:36.198 --> 00:14:36.708 Um. 00:14:36.773 --> 00:14:40.073 So it's, you know, who's important to your child, what are they interested in? 00:14:40.073 --> 00:14:41.333 What goals do you have? 00:14:41.723 --> 00:14:45.953 And our teachers are taking notes and, and building connections. 00:14:46.013 --> 00:14:56.843 And we recognize that our parents, our families are our students first, uh, teachers and our families recognize that our teachers are spending. 00:14:57.258 --> 00:15:05.958 A lot of hours with our kids and in some ways are seeing and knowing things that we will never know, um, because we're not with them in the classroom. 00:15:06.408 --> 00:15:13.188 And so we've built this authentic connection point at the beginning of every year. 00:15:13.698 --> 00:15:15.018 That we can then build upon. 00:15:15.468 --> 00:15:29.808 Um, I think one of the most unique experiences and tests that we had was, was dealing with Covid and our students grew academically over the pandemic and that was pretty unheard of across the nation. 00:15:30.078 --> 00:15:32.928 And I truly do think that that was because. 00:15:33.338 --> 00:15:36.998 Of, of two things, but one is that partnership with parents. 00:15:36.998 --> 00:15:43.058 And the other is that our staff was used to designing school, um, because we've been designing school since we opened. 00:15:43.058 --> 00:15:48.548 And so it was, it was very intense of like redesigning school. 00:15:48.548 --> 00:15:52.268 But um, both of those things played such a huge part. 00:15:52.688 --> 00:15:59.438 And when you create opportunity for authentic partnership, uh, you can build upon that and create a culture. 00:15:59.438 --> 00:16:01.418 And at that point, at this point in. 00:16:02.973 --> 00:16:03.933 It is our culture. 00:16:03.933 --> 00:16:09.123 It is, it is expected for families and it is expected for staff. 00:16:10.653 --> 00:16:22.053 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I, I love that perspective, and you've talked about a lot of things that I, that I write about in my book, school X, about redesigning the school experience for the people that are actually there and how important that is. 00:16:22.323 --> 00:16:29.223 And even if you're in a public school that you don't get as much say as you would in a charter school that you've started. 00:16:29.523 --> 00:16:34.353 You still can redesign the school and, and be involved in that process. 00:16:34.353 --> 00:16:36.273 And it's not impossible. 00:16:36.303 --> 00:16:38.193 A lot of people think that it is, but it isn't. 00:16:38.193 --> 00:16:39.693 It's, and it's really important. 00:16:40.143 --> 00:16:50.373 Um, so the, the last thing that I, that I wanna dive into is this idea about, uh, what you said in our class was about how data. 00:16:50.748 --> 00:16:54.858 Uh, personalizes and depersonalizes at the same time. 00:16:54.978 --> 00:16:59.028 Talk about that and tell me your, your thoughts on that and then we'll have a little discussion about that. 00:16:59.028 --> 00:17:08.568 'cause there's, so that was like this little aha for me that I was like, yes, that's exactly what is valuable about data is that it can be used both ways. 00:17:08.568 --> 00:17:09.678 So talk about that a little bit. 00:17:10.738 --> 00:17:17.103 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Yeah, well, we collect a lot of data at our school, and I do personally as well because it can help inform decisions. 00:17:17.103 --> 00:17:25.473 And so the way that I think data can depersonalize things is you can analyze numerical data and see. 00:17:25.758 --> 00:17:34.848 What your averages are, uh, you can look at comments and you can look for trends within them, and it can tell a story. 00:17:35.028 --> 00:17:41.688 Now, of course, it's always interpreted by the person who's analyzing the data, but it also can help to. 00:17:42.753 --> 00:17:54.393 Pinpoint something that maybe is unexpected, and I always ask our team and ask that of myself where I'm like, okay, some of data is anecdotal. 00:17:54.663 --> 00:18:00.993 You know, my experience as an employee and as a parent in our school. 00:18:01.568 --> 00:18:09.608 Absolutely influences how I feel about our school and what I think about the things that we are doing and what we should be doing as a result of that. 00:18:09.908 --> 00:18:11.348 And that is also data. 00:18:11.468 --> 00:18:16.238 And I think sometimes people forget that our personal experiences. 00:18:16.968 --> 00:18:18.678 Influence us as well. 00:18:18.768 --> 00:18:43.998 Um, and so I don't remember exactly what I was talking about in your class, but I think, you know, I think that that's the, the overall concept is that we do best service to both, um, look at concrete evidence and to discuss and analyze the, the like soft skills sort of data that you have that. 00:18:46.098 --> 00:18:49.548 I think one example I would use is, uh, is evaluation. 00:18:50.088 --> 00:19:08.878 So teacher evaluation or, or any kind of employee evaluation can be a hot button topic in schools, because our work is really personal in education and I. Our, we have three full-time coaches, and our coaches actually evaluate our teachers. 00:19:09.298 --> 00:19:12.328 And some people are like, oh, like, why would you do that? 00:19:12.478 --> 00:19:17.968 And, um, I, I said, well, the reason is because they are evaluating you. 00:19:17.968 --> 00:19:22.078 They are coming in and observing and talking to you and forming an impression. 00:19:22.318 --> 00:19:26.338 And so the person who writes your formal evaluation, in my mind. 00:19:26.543 --> 00:19:29.663 Is the person who should have the most context in your practice. 00:19:29.903 --> 00:19:32.243 Because we are constantly evaluating each other. 00:19:32.243 --> 00:19:41.573 You and I are evaluating each other right now in this moment and forming an opinion about what we think of each other that is natural human experience. 00:19:41.933 --> 00:19:55.373 Um, so I think again, like to be able to use both of those pieces and to inform your own opinion is where we can serve our school communities the best. 00:19:56.913 --> 00:19:57.363 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah. 00:19:57.423 --> 00:20:05.343 Well, I'm glad you got into the idea about teachers being evaluated by the coaches, because you're right, a lot of people are like, gasp. 00:20:05.343 --> 00:20:06.153 How can that be? 00:20:06.153 --> 00:20:11.463 Only a principal can do that, but that's not necessarily the case and your justification of. 00:20:11.928 --> 00:20:16.668 The person who knows them the best and spends the most time with them really should be the one doing that. 00:20:17.028 --> 00:20:23.778 Um, does, does that mean that all of your teachers then get excellent marks on their evaluations? 00:20:23.778 --> 00:20:28.698 I mean, 97% of teachers already do so, so that's typically the case anyway. 00:20:28.698 --> 00:20:37.548 But how, how does that affect the growth and development of teachers when somebody is, uh, and when a coach is the one doing the evaluation? 00:20:40.458 --> 00:20:40.698 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Yeah. 00:20:40.698 --> 00:20:41.628 I mean, no. 00:20:41.628 --> 00:21:00.793 Our teachers all have areas of growth, as do I. Um, we all are working on growth goals every single year, and so I think that's one thing that we should name is just saying, if you think that you are operating perfectly, you know where to grow, then you probably should get out of whatever field you're in, uh, whether that's education or something else. 00:21:00.793 --> 00:21:05.653 Because I think the moment we stop learning is pretty detrimental to. 00:21:06.833 --> 00:21:08.213 Anything that we are involved with. 00:21:08.843 --> 00:21:21.503 So, you know, our, what I would say is we did the model where when I was principal, we tried it, um, a year, maybe two, but I think it was only one year where I was evaluating all the teachers. 00:21:22.013 --> 00:21:27.233 And I would get into teachers' classrooms more often than I had ever been evaluated as a teacher. 00:21:27.263 --> 00:21:31.313 And it didn't feel authentic. 00:21:31.433 --> 00:21:33.953 And I actually think that sometimes, uh. 00:21:35.913 --> 00:21:36.573 I'm so sorry. 00:21:36.573 --> 00:21:38.073 My alarm for dismissal went off. 00:21:39.438 --> 00:21:41.538 Jethro D. Jones: We'll just, we'll just cut that part out, or 00:21:41.613 --> 00:21:42.363 Dr. Sarah Ranney: So sorry. 00:21:42.933 --> 00:21:43.413 Jethro D. Jones: That's okay. 00:21:43.953 --> 00:21:48.903 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Well, I'm trying not to make a hard editing situation for you, but anyway, um, okay. 00:21:49.233 --> 00:22:03.183 So with, uh, with evaluation, what I was thinking is that I think our teachers felt more often that there was a gotcha moment because there hadn't been the opportunity to give. 00:22:03.978 --> 00:22:11.688 Corrective feedback and then supportive feedback and support growth versus when our coaches are in the room, you know, our coaches are observing. 00:22:12.708 --> 00:22:15.588 Some of our teachers are observing several times a week. 00:22:15.648 --> 00:22:17.838 Some of them, they're going in and co-teaching with them. 00:22:17.838 --> 00:22:32.868 Sometimes they're going in and, and watching another class with the teacher, and so they're getting this constant feedback and our coaches are very intimately aware of what each teacher's growth goals are and they're helping them grow. 00:22:32.868 --> 00:22:34.608 That is, that is the goal. 00:22:34.983 --> 00:22:37.893 Nobody wants gr like bad teachers in schools. 00:22:37.953 --> 00:22:43.893 You know, we want teachers to be awesome, to feel supported and ultimately to grow from coaching. 00:22:46.128 --> 00:22:47.028 Practice. 00:22:47.028 --> 00:23:00.468 I think in a lot of other fields, you know, you're going in and you've got your colleagues and I am picturing a lot of my friends, you know, are working in offices or working in cubicles or even in our modern world where we're having Zoom conversations all the time. 00:23:00.918 --> 00:23:03.108 Um, and teachers are with kids most of the time. 00:23:03.108 --> 00:23:09.798 So this relationship with the coach can be so important both in support and helping push their growth and development. 00:23:09.888 --> 00:23:12.678 And when you pair both of those things, I think teachers. 00:23:13.008 --> 00:23:28.728 Feel safe to be able to take risks and feel like the person that is evaluating them has the best context for where they started the year when we get to the end of the year. 00:23:28.968 --> 00:23:30.618 'cause that's when evaluation should capture. 00:23:30.618 --> 00:23:31.848 It should capture the growth. 00:23:32.238 --> 00:23:37.878 And again, I think everybody, no matter what year you are in your practice, um, should be growing over the course of the year. 00:23:38.673 --> 00:23:40.173 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, I, I love that. 00:23:40.233 --> 00:23:55.893 You know, one of the principals that I am coaching right now, uh, mentioned that she has a teacher and, uh, she just did not have the time to give her the support that she needed and not seen the growth because. 00:23:56.253 --> 00:24:10.743 She didn't have the time to support her, and she has a coach, but she, she had something very specific that she wanted this teacher to get better at, that she knew how to do, and it just became a time issue that she didn't have the time to go coach that teacher up. 00:24:10.743 --> 00:24:14.553 How she should have and her experience. 00:24:14.553 --> 00:24:16.893 And your experience with having the, um. 00:24:17.863 --> 00:24:26.503 the coaches do evaluation just solidified that in my mind, that there's a better way to do it and, and you can make adjustments and change and, and do different things. 00:24:26.503 --> 00:24:45.043 So I, I just appreciate that so much and it's, it's great to hear people doing things differently and saying, you know, just because everybody else does it this way doesn't mean that we have to also, my last question, Sarah, is what is one thing that a principal can do this week to be a Transformative leader like you? 00:24:47.733 --> 00:25:00.333 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Um, I think that one thing that a principal could do this week to be a Transformative leader is to ask for feedback and to be willing to be vulnerable to respond to that feedback. 00:25:01.173 --> 00:25:09.663 And that is the thing that has helped me grow beyond any other experience I have had is to. 00:25:10.023 --> 00:25:17.043 Hear the feedback to sort of depersonalize it for myself, because I'm, I'm always like, oh, they're not talking about me, Sarah. 00:25:17.043 --> 00:25:24.423 They're talking about Dr. Randy, this person, um, this like vision of what it is that they think a principal is. 00:25:24.783 --> 00:25:29.583 And to be open to change because of that feedback. 00:25:29.613 --> 00:25:35.523 Even if all you're changing is the way you're communicating, uh, that can have a profound impact. 00:25:35.763 --> 00:25:39.333 I got feedback routinely that my teachers didn't think I was in their classroom enough. 00:25:39.993 --> 00:25:41.943 And I was like, I can't believe it. 00:25:41.943 --> 00:25:43.923 I'm like, I'm in there every week. 00:25:44.463 --> 00:25:48.543 And uh, and so I was just like, I have to hear this. 00:25:48.633 --> 00:25:58.653 And so the only thing I changed in my practice was I started going in to classrooms and I would sit, when I went into the classroom instead of just walking around, I would go in and I would sit. 00:25:58.653 --> 00:26:05.223 I was in there the same amount of time, and then after I left, I would leave a sticky note that just said, thank you so much for having me in your classroom. 00:26:05.958 --> 00:26:14.148 You know, generally like something happy and suddenly I was not getting that feedback anymore and those are the only two things I changed. 00:26:14.148 --> 00:26:30.348 So sometimes it is about interpreting what the feedback is, but really being able to dial in and, and, and take a step forward and say, and acknowledge like, this feedback's coming from somewhere and it's not meant to cause harm. 00:26:30.558 --> 00:26:31.848 So how can I grow from it? 00:26:32.858 --> 00:26:34.088 Jethro D. Jones: Yeah, that's really good. 00:26:34.178 --> 00:26:41.348 Um, I, I especially like that because, you, it, it's one thing to ask for feedback. 00:26:41.348 --> 00:26:46.268 It's another thing to be vulnerable to receive it and putting on a different hat that. 00:26:46.968 --> 00:26:51.468 You know, there's, there's Sarah, the person who can get offended and hurt. 00:26:51.618 --> 00:27:01.158 And then there's Dr. Ranney, the leader who needs to be able to be as effective as possible, just like anybody in their job needs to be as effective as possible. 00:27:01.158 --> 00:27:01.938 That's really good. 00:27:02.328 --> 00:27:03.438 Uh, this was awesome. 00:27:03.468 --> 00:27:06.078 Thank you so much for being part of Transformative Principal. 00:27:06.078 --> 00:27:12.408 I appreciate you taking the time to chat with me and, and share your experience and this was just fantastic. 00:27:12.408 --> 00:27:12.978 So thank you. 00:27:13.623 --> 00:27:18.048 Dr. Sarah Ranney: Well for asking me and to all the principals out there listening, I wish you luck. 00:27:18.048 --> 00:27:18.928 You're not it alone. 00:27:19.308 --> 00:27:20.088 And it's.