WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:24.998 --> 00:00:27.428 Anke: Hello and welcome back, Dr. 00:00:27.648 --> 00:00:27.768 Ed. 00:00:28.028 --> 00:00:29.318 Lovely to have you here with me. 00:00:30.178 --> 00:00:32.068 Dr. Ed: Thanks so much for having me back on your show. 00:00:32.148 --> 00:00:35.338 It's always good fun and I'm really happy to be here. 00:00:36.278 --> 00:00:37.138 Anke: Me too, me too. 00:00:37.138 --> 00:00:38.208 I'm really happy to have you. 00:00:38.568 --> 00:00:43.898 So for anybody who hasn't heard you on my show before, let people 00:00:43.898 --> 00:00:47.758 know where you're based and, you know, what's your business for dogs? 00:00:49.288 --> 00:00:51.978 Dr. Ed: So I live in regional Victoria in Australia. 00:00:51.979 --> 00:00:54.788 I'm about an hour and a half's drive from Melbourne at a 00:00:54.788 --> 00:00:56.258 little village called Tarradale. 00:00:57.178 --> 00:01:01.568 Um, I'm a holistic veterinarian and I'm the founder of the whole energy 00:01:01.568 --> 00:01:06.538 body balance method, which is a modality for pets, people, and horses 00:01:06.538 --> 00:01:12.368 that integrates therapeutic touch, neurofascial, neurofascial bodywork, um, 00:01:12.368 --> 00:01:14.498 intuitive perception and energy healing. 00:01:15.458 --> 00:01:15.848 Anke: Mm. 00:01:16.178 --> 00:01:20.498 And I, I still remember the day I stumbled across your work and it was on 00:01:20.498 --> 00:01:26.428 Facebook and, you know, and it was, and it was about si silent pain in pets. 00:01:26.428 --> 00:01:26.548 Yes. 00:01:26.988 --> 00:01:31.848 And that got me because it was so, it was like, yeah, you're so good at hiding it. 00:01:31.848 --> 00:01:32.208 Right. 00:01:32.208 --> 00:01:37.168 So what if we had a way to, to actually detect that? 00:01:37.168 --> 00:01:39.658 So it is really, really powerful work. 00:01:39.658 --> 00:01:41.758 And I've been like in your world ever since I've had you 00:01:41.758 --> 00:01:44.279 on my summit, and so now you. 00:01:44.893 --> 00:01:45.583 written a book about it. 00:01:46.083 --> 00:01:50.673 I'd be curious to hear, like, what inspired you to, 00:01:50.673 --> 00:01:52.283 to write, to write the book? 00:01:53.383 --> 00:01:53.973 Dr. Ed: Here it is. 00:01:54.083 --> 00:01:55.003 Anke: Look at that little face. 00:01:57.143 --> 00:02:01.473 Dr. Ed: Find and heal your pet's silent pain, learn how to hear your pet's 00:02:01.473 --> 00:02:06.083 silent cries for help, never again miss hidden pain, anxiety and trauma. 00:02:06.123 --> 00:02:06.633 So I, 00:02:08.663 --> 00:02:16.123 I woke up, I got woken up to the fact that there is hidden pain in the necks 00:02:16.123 --> 00:02:20.983 and backs of animals when I was only about a year and a half out, graduated. 00:02:22.253 --> 00:02:28.633 And um, then when I started feeling into what is With an idea that I 00:02:28.633 --> 00:02:32.843 might be missing something, so I got more curious and was exploring more 00:02:32.843 --> 00:02:41.253 deeply and more intently, I pretty quickly found, um, that I'd been 00:02:41.253 --> 00:02:43.563 missing a heap of neck and back pains. 00:02:44.393 --> 00:02:48.113 So that's what I started off with, really focusing on the spine and um, 00:02:48.153 --> 00:02:52.623 after some years I started noticing that there's all these soft tissues, all these 00:02:52.623 --> 00:02:54.373 neurofascial tissues throughout the body. 00:02:55.328 --> 00:03:00.588 And, um, realized that, you know, the spine, though it's probably one of the 00:03:00.608 --> 00:03:03.728 most important parts of the body, it's not the only thing that needs help. 00:03:04.578 --> 00:03:10.258 And then reaching out from that, I also then started thinking about emotional 00:03:10.288 --> 00:03:13.978 silent pain, which is anxiety, trauma, things like that, which again, a lot 00:03:13.978 --> 00:03:18.868 of animals have rumbling away under the surface and the humans just don't 00:03:18.878 --> 00:03:22.148 really understand the signs to tell them. 00:03:22.148 --> 00:03:22.348 So, um, yeah. 00:03:23.208 --> 00:03:25.638 That the animals are trying to tell the people that they've got problems. 00:03:27.238 --> 00:03:32.778 And, um, I also had chronic fatigue, um, for quite a long time. 00:03:33.108 --> 00:03:38.148 So, I came down with chronic fatigue about four years after I graduated, 00:03:38.148 --> 00:03:40.678 I think, and was unwell for decades. 00:03:41.718 --> 00:03:46.768 And I also then got into the whole thing of, of energetic silent pain, because I 00:03:46.768 --> 00:03:50.248 had a lot of pain, not just physically, not just mentally, emotionally, but 00:03:50.258 --> 00:03:52.638 through the energy systems in my body. 00:03:52.698 --> 00:03:59.368 So, that's what has led me to to create the whole energy body balance method. 00:03:59.368 --> 00:04:05.708 But this particular book is really focused on bringing awareness into the world of 00:04:05.709 --> 00:04:13.368 the undeniable fact that around 50 percent or more of animals have significant 00:04:13.398 --> 00:04:18.988 pain that is undiagnosed, missed, that they show little or no signs of. 00:04:19.068 --> 00:04:23.288 And this book's got a whole lot of information in to learn about what 00:04:23.298 --> 00:04:27.798 the problem is and how to pick up the red flags, the subtle signs that. 00:04:27.963 --> 00:04:32.693 A lot of people miss or don't understand and, and there's some core skills in here 00:04:32.693 --> 00:04:37.623 to, to help you learn how to feel in the body to find silent pain and, and some 00:04:37.693 --> 00:04:41.833 touch to help with anxiety and trauma and, and some other touch to help with 00:04:42.613 --> 00:04:47.263 releasing at least the superficial layers of pain and tension out of animal bodies. 00:04:48.808 --> 00:04:53.378 Anke: So it kind of seems to be mandatory reading for any, any pet owner, really. 00:04:53.808 --> 00:04:57.348 And, and I would almost say in, in veterinary school, you 00:04:57.348 --> 00:04:59.748 know, because I mean, that's usually the first thing, right? 00:05:00.018 --> 00:05:05.128 If I'm thinking that, that there's, and that's been a big journey for me to kind 00:05:05.128 --> 00:05:10.038 of realize that, you know, Yeah, vets don't always have all the answers, right? 00:05:10.038 --> 00:05:12.918 So you go there and you get the wrong advice or they don't know 00:05:12.919 --> 00:05:15.698 or, you know, so I mean, this stuff, like, they should know. 00:05:17.658 --> 00:05:22.208 Dr. Ed: One thing I'm going to say is that vets only know what they've been 00:05:22.208 --> 00:05:24.308 taught and they're highly skilled. 00:05:25.218 --> 00:05:29.983 They have a lot of information and they In nearly all cases, though I have 00:05:30.023 --> 00:05:35.953 met a few stinkers in my career, in nearly all cases, vets are devoted to 00:05:36.093 --> 00:05:40.583 giving the best advice that they know with their understanding and with the 00:05:40.583 --> 00:05:41.843 knowledge that they have for animals. 00:05:42.183 --> 00:05:47.498 I don't, no way am I ever going to join in with, um, Being unkind to pets in 00:05:47.498 --> 00:05:51.418 any way because I know how stressful and difficult their job is, but there 00:05:51.418 --> 00:05:59.118 is a yawning gap in knowledge and skill when it comes to silent pain in pets 00:05:59.628 --> 00:06:04.308 across the board in pet owners, in pet professionals, whether it be groomers 00:06:04.308 --> 00:06:12.163 or trainers or rehabbers or physios or Um, breeders or people showing dogs and 00:06:12.273 --> 00:06:16.623 competing in agility and right through to veterinarians there is this complete 00:06:16.623 --> 00:06:23.223 lack of understanding of the prevalence of and the seriousness of silent pain 00:06:23.283 --> 00:06:27.863 as, as a very large problem that has really serious impacts on well being. 00:06:28.573 --> 00:06:31.903 And a lot of the animals that I work with, we give them bodywork sessions 00:06:31.993 --> 00:06:35.913 and suddenly they're a new dog and they're playing like they haven't played 00:06:35.913 --> 00:06:39.613 for years and they're I don't know, sometimes naughty things like digging 00:06:39.623 --> 00:06:41.053 holes that they haven't done for ages. 00:06:42.273 --> 00:06:47.343 Um, and I had one greyhound I worked with who literally at the ripe old 00:06:47.343 --> 00:06:50.243 age of 12 became a naughty puppy. 00:06:51.843 --> 00:06:53.203 He never had any of these. 00:06:53.203 --> 00:06:57.653 He started getting into bins and chewing things up and tearing things up and having 00:06:57.653 --> 00:07:01.393 the best fun of his life when we set him free from an immense amount of silent 00:07:01.453 --> 00:07:04.293 pain and trauma from a long racing career. 00:07:04.893 --> 00:07:05.163 So. 00:07:06.618 --> 00:07:09.008 It's still not taught at vet schools. 00:07:09.848 --> 00:07:14.388 I was working in a clinic, oh, probably 18 months, two years ago. 00:07:14.388 --> 00:07:17.068 I had a spell of about a year and a half working in a vet clinic. 00:07:17.588 --> 00:07:23.058 We had a number of final year vet students come through and I told them about 00:07:23.058 --> 00:07:24.398 this and they go, oh, that's awesome. 00:07:24.398 --> 00:07:25.218 I've never heard of it. 00:07:25.673 --> 00:07:29.293 And they're just about to go out into practice, so I can be reasonably 00:07:29.293 --> 00:07:36.723 confident that even though bodywork, massage, physio, rehab, these hands on 00:07:37.093 --> 00:07:41.873 therapeutic touch kind of modalities have become much more prominent in 00:07:41.873 --> 00:07:47.163 veterinary science over the last 10 years than ever before, there is still 00:07:47.523 --> 00:07:53.583 overall in the profession a big, big knowledge and skill gap because sorenpine 00:07:55.118 --> 00:07:56.708 Not all animals show the red flags. 00:07:56.708 --> 00:07:59.718 I mean, I've got a long list of red flags, which you'll, you'll read about in the 00:07:59.718 --> 00:08:04.908 book so that you can see them and go, oh my goodness, my dog's doing those things. 00:08:04.908 --> 00:08:05.538 That's a problem. 00:08:05.548 --> 00:08:07.178 That's, they're trying to tell me they're in pain. 00:08:08.138 --> 00:08:09.188 But, um, 00:08:11.968 --> 00:08:17.328 to really consistently and effectively discover this kind of soft tissue neck 00:08:17.328 --> 00:08:22.678 and back pain, the only way that you can do that is to pee onto the body. 00:08:23.103 --> 00:08:27.513 to palpate through the tissues, to bring pressure and connection into 00:08:27.513 --> 00:08:32.873 the pain and tension, and then be very sensitive to the animal's non verbal 00:08:32.873 --> 00:08:35.073 communication while you're doing that because you get a sore spot and 00:08:35.073 --> 00:08:36.843 they go, Oh yeah, it's sore there. 00:08:37.793 --> 00:08:40.033 And that's what I've discovered. 00:08:40.163 --> 00:08:41.603 You know, I've been really fortunate. 00:08:41.603 --> 00:08:44.943 I've had a lot of fortunate circumstances and situations and, 00:08:45.963 --> 00:08:47.923 um, you know, an early mentor in Dr. 00:08:47.924 --> 00:08:52.593 Tom O'Hearn, who was a vet who'd worked out this way of working on horses necks. 00:08:52.593 --> 00:08:53.783 And that's what got me. 00:08:54.053 --> 00:08:56.693 Well, I thought, horses have swan eggs, what about dogs and cats? 00:08:56.723 --> 00:09:02.343 And that led me into actively exploring the body in a, in a whole deeper, 00:09:03.113 --> 00:09:06.593 more curious way than I had before. 00:09:06.593 --> 00:09:08.383 And very quickly finding pain and tension. 00:09:08.383 --> 00:09:10.113 And then when I found pain and tension, I wanted to do 00:09:10.113 --> 00:09:11.513 something to help these animals. 00:09:12.293 --> 00:09:15.723 So I started playing around with pressure and touch and movement because there 00:09:15.723 --> 00:09:18.143 were no modalities available to learn. 00:09:18.613 --> 00:09:23.773 You know, 25, 28 years ago when I started doing this, there's a wealth 00:09:23.773 --> 00:09:26.833 of different kinds of things you can learn with your animals these days. 00:09:26.903 --> 00:09:32.843 Massage, body work, energy healing, animal communication, um, all sorts of things. 00:09:32.893 --> 00:09:37.773 But when I started out, I think I'm lucky that I grew up on a, 00:09:37.823 --> 00:09:42.713 on a cattle farm and you just, If there's something that needs doing, 00:09:42.713 --> 00:09:43.803 well, you gotta find a way to do it. 00:09:43.843 --> 00:09:49.023 And I think that I'm fortunate to have that kind of patterning and background 00:09:49.023 --> 00:09:52.743 as well, so that when I came to finding these animals with pain, well, I just 00:09:52.743 --> 00:09:53.963 thought, well, I'll do something. 00:09:53.973 --> 00:09:55.233 I'll try something, see what happens. 00:09:56.083 --> 00:10:02.253 And pretty quickly, we saw animals responding to even my early Um, pretty 00:10:02.803 --> 00:10:08.073 basic attempts, and the work has evolved through thousands and thousands of animals 00:10:08.343 --> 00:10:13.083 over many, many years, teaching me what works for them, you know, telling me don't 00:10:13.083 --> 00:10:17.063 do that, that doesn't, oh, that pressure's just right, and you know, you might try a 00:10:17.063 --> 00:10:19.953 different type of movement or connection. 00:10:20.938 --> 00:10:23.748 And the animal will melt, and I go, oh, that worked for that one, we 00:10:23.748 --> 00:10:27.198 might try it for another few, and if it works consistently, then it 00:10:27.198 --> 00:10:31.218 becomes a teachable, repeatable skill that becomes part of the modality. 00:10:33.138 --> 00:10:38.288 Anke: I think the key piece I'm taking, there's so much hope in this, you know, 00:10:38.288 --> 00:10:44.558 one is to almost simply accept that you can't just hand over or outsource the well 00:10:44.568 --> 00:10:46.328 being of your animal to somebody else. 00:10:47.358 --> 00:10:51.098 Because they don't know your animal and they might not even know the base. 00:10:51.418 --> 00:10:54.008 So it's like you can't just go, Oh, the vet said he's all right. 00:10:54.848 --> 00:10:58.908 You know, so it's almost like we know now that that's not enough. 00:10:58.908 --> 00:11:02.868 So we have to take that, that ownership and that advocacy and, and. 00:11:03.033 --> 00:11:06.583 You know, and do something and learn about it ourselves. 00:11:06.633 --> 00:11:13.163 And, and it is beautiful when they kind of like, oh, they go soft and, and, uh, and 00:11:13.223 --> 00:11:16.063 melt into, into, into your, look at him. 00:11:16.193 --> 00:11:17.293 Oh, look at that face. 00:11:17.473 --> 00:11:18.283 Dr. Ed: Oh, I 00:11:18.323 --> 00:11:19.443 Anke: haven't seen them in so long. 00:11:20.643 --> 00:11:21.263 Dr. Ed: Here's Jen. 00:11:24.268 --> 00:11:25.998 Our little bit over one year old Whippet. 00:11:25.998 --> 00:11:29.028 Jem's very sad because we lost our beautiful pet last week 00:11:29.028 --> 00:11:32.858 to a snake bite and Fred was Jem's best friend in the world. 00:11:34.528 --> 00:11:42.058 Now Jem has been ratty and mad and has peed on the couch and has been super 00:11:42.058 --> 00:11:45.368 demanding of attention because she's got lots of big feelings and she doesn't 00:11:45.368 --> 00:11:47.388 quite know how to deal with them. 00:11:47.388 --> 00:11:51.448 So I've been using the whole energy body balance work, relaxing touch 00:11:51.458 --> 00:11:55.368 and energy healing and things like that to help her through this. 00:11:55.368 --> 00:12:03.558 And yeah, I absolutely, the more that people can become empowered to work 00:12:03.718 --> 00:12:06.988 with their animals, with healing touch, with healing energy, all these different 00:12:06.988 --> 00:12:12.328 kinds of things, it doesn't mean that you're not going to have a vet, but 00:12:12.328 --> 00:12:15.718 it means that you can do a whole lot with your animals that otherwise. 00:12:16.463 --> 00:12:21.713 You couldn't and your animals, you know, they might, they might be 00:12:21.713 --> 00:12:24.443 at home when you're at work and sleep when they jump off the couch. 00:12:25.143 --> 00:12:28.683 They might be playing and have a, have a bit of a crash with their friend. 00:12:28.683 --> 00:12:31.893 They might just sleep in a funny position and wake up with a quick 00:12:31.893 --> 00:12:35.193 neck like I think every human on the planet has that feeling of waking up 00:12:35.193 --> 00:12:38.503 and stretching and something going ping and it's like, Oh my God, that hurts. 00:12:40.533 --> 00:12:45.463 And, um, with my animals, you know, I get my hands on them all the time. 00:12:45.463 --> 00:12:45.833 And. 00:12:46.578 --> 00:12:51.418 That means that I pick up hidden pain rapidly. 00:12:51.458 --> 00:12:58.248 It doesn't stay there to get worse and to cause suffering and I can do something 00:12:58.508 --> 00:13:01.158 straight away to make a difference. 00:13:01.248 --> 00:13:02.588 And I think that's the beautiful thing. 00:13:02.638 --> 00:13:06.458 Not only that, this kind of work is incredibly strengthening of your 00:13:06.458 --> 00:13:07.868 relationship with your animals. 00:13:09.348 --> 00:13:12.148 The whole modality is a relationship first modality. 00:13:12.148 --> 00:13:14.678 Everything we do is focused around. 00:13:16.913 --> 00:13:22.703 Working with the animal, making the animal feel safe and secure and able to relax and 00:13:22.813 --> 00:13:25.043 allow us to engage with pain and tension. 00:13:25.043 --> 00:13:27.883 Some animals it takes, you know, a few weeks or a month or two to 00:13:27.883 --> 00:13:33.553 teach them to, to allow therapeutic touch with painful areas. 00:13:34.273 --> 00:13:35.803 So let me back down on my bed, please. 00:13:36.418 --> 00:13:41.208 I've been working with a traumatized, um, anxious reactive dog with quite 00:13:42.058 --> 00:13:47.968 high levels of pain, especially in this dog's lower back, and it's taken 00:13:47.968 --> 00:13:52.103 me three or four sessions to get to a point where I can actually treat it. 00:13:52.473 --> 00:13:55.993 even rest my hand on the lower back for any period of time. 00:13:59.083 --> 00:13:59.783 It requires 00:13:59.783 --> 00:14:03.443 Anke: a lot of sensitivity then, right, to really take in the reaction that 00:14:03.443 --> 00:14:06.033 comes back, to not just kind of go and, 00:14:06.703 --> 00:14:07.023 Dr. Ed: you know. 00:14:07.073 --> 00:14:07.943 Absolutely. 00:14:08.063 --> 00:14:11.533 But I find that people know they're animals and they tend to learn 00:14:11.593 --> 00:14:14.683 how to have this adaptive touch. 00:14:14.683 --> 00:14:18.333 So your animal does something and you, that's the communication and 00:14:18.333 --> 00:14:21.023 you communicate that you've heard them by changing the quality of 00:14:21.023 --> 00:14:22.263 touch that you're engaging with. 00:14:23.543 --> 00:14:25.103 So it's not to learn. 00:14:25.828 --> 00:14:32.058 If you're willing to put time in and, um, practice and learn, 00:14:32.558 --> 00:14:34.908 it's, it's actually really simple. 00:14:36.378 --> 00:14:37.908 Anke: I love the simplicity of it too. 00:14:38.158 --> 00:14:41.788 So if, if a dog, for example, that dog you just described who 00:14:41.788 --> 00:14:45.318 has, you know, was like, I don't really want to let you there. 00:14:45.318 --> 00:14:48.698 So how do you go about, you don't have sessions, but you sort of 00:14:48.828 --> 00:14:53.968 gently get closer, or how do you go about, um, teaching them that it's 00:14:54.048 --> 00:14:56.438 safe to let you touch that area? 00:14:57.388 --> 00:15:01.058 Dr. Ed: Well, with this particular dog, I started off by getting the 00:15:01.058 --> 00:15:04.328 owner to be holding and cuddling the dog while I started working. 00:15:04.328 --> 00:15:07.318 So holding the collar and the front end and comforting the dog 00:15:07.318 --> 00:15:11.308 while I do some gentle touch to a level that they can tolerate. 00:15:11.538 --> 00:15:15.878 And then I, I teach the person how to do a particular relaxing touch 00:15:15.878 --> 00:15:19.948 skill and get them to do lots of that, or at least some of that every day. 00:15:20.988 --> 00:15:23.978 And then each session builds more trust and connection. 00:15:24.188 --> 00:15:30.583 In the most recent session, um, This dog would get up on the couch with me and we'd 00:15:30.583 --> 00:15:34.523 actually be able to do some meaningful kind of really engaging with pain, 00:15:34.523 --> 00:15:36.123 intention, touch for a period of time. 00:15:36.123 --> 00:15:37.763 Then she'd be like, Oh, I need to get off the couch. 00:15:37.763 --> 00:15:38.523 That's a bit much. 00:15:39.163 --> 00:15:41.323 No, you can't rearrange me and ask me to stay there. 00:15:41.323 --> 00:15:42.043 That's too much. 00:15:42.053 --> 00:15:44.653 And then we'd get back on the couch and then we'd get back on the couch. 00:15:44.653 --> 00:15:47.443 And after three or four rounds of that, I could actually start to, 00:15:48.023 --> 00:15:50.013 when she got down, pop her hand over. 00:15:51.208 --> 00:15:54.988 the other side of her lower back and ask her to stay with me and not, not scoot 00:15:54.988 --> 00:15:56.558 her back end around and get distressed. 00:15:56.558 --> 00:16:00.958 And she ended up being, being able to allow that, which was a huge step for this 00:16:00.958 --> 00:16:05.168 dog because she's got a really serious traumatic history and a lot of pain. 00:16:06.078 --> 00:16:11.738 So it's a, it's a start, it's a gentle, slow process of building trust through 00:16:12.448 --> 00:16:15.698 letting the dog know that you're really deeply listening to their responses 00:16:15.698 --> 00:16:17.318 and responding to their responses. 00:16:18.443 --> 00:16:21.633 Anke: And I think that alone creates a lot of safety already and I think 00:16:21.643 --> 00:16:22.993 that alone is already helpful. 00:16:23.263 --> 00:16:29.043 That the dog learns to understand that you're actually listening because I guess 00:16:29.093 --> 00:16:33.193 when you, if you look at the world through a dog, it's like, yeah, you know, humans 00:16:33.193 --> 00:16:37.093 are probably the weirdest things for them or just don't get it a lot of the time. 00:16:39.053 --> 00:16:39.363 Dr. Ed: Yeah. 00:16:39.363 --> 00:16:46.203 Look, I think humans in general are not great at understanding dogs. 00:16:46.203 --> 00:16:46.273 Yeah. 00:16:46.693 --> 00:16:51.143 and communicating with dogs because we behave like monkeys, because we are 00:16:51.143 --> 00:16:58.663 monkeys really, we're primates, and we, we have a very different kind of 00:17:01.253 --> 00:17:02.163 physicality. 00:17:02.983 --> 00:17:07.675 Um, you know, we hug each other, that's a primate, and dogs don't like 00:17:07.675 --> 00:17:12.923 to be hugged, but humans want to hug their dogs, you know, and let's just 00:17:13.223 --> 00:17:21.913 assume that dogs are going to feel like Monkeys do, and they're very, very 00:17:21.913 --> 00:17:23.853 different, but it's not hard to learn. 00:17:25.258 --> 00:17:32.588 How to, um, interpret and understand dogs body language and communication and, and 00:17:32.588 --> 00:17:39.178 shift our human expression just a little bit to be something that makes more sense 00:17:39.178 --> 00:17:43.918 to dogs and, and their kind of social structure and, and how they, they tick. 00:17:44.658 --> 00:17:48.158 And I, we cover a lot of that in the whole energy body balance work too, 00:17:48.158 --> 00:17:52.778 in terms of talking about how to be a good, plain, strong, benevolent 00:17:52.788 --> 00:17:54.298 leader with your dogs and how to. 00:17:54.933 --> 00:17:58.163 express healthy boundaries around personal space because that's something 00:17:58.163 --> 00:18:04.683 that dogs do in between each other all the time, but humans um they don't, 00:18:04.713 --> 00:18:08.523 and that can contribute to anxiety and then anxiety can contribute to the 00:18:08.683 --> 00:18:14.733 actual body pain, soft tissue pain, so it's it's really important to Learn 00:18:14.733 --> 00:18:16.143 how to understand your dogs better. 00:18:16.143 --> 00:18:18.303 And I think that this work also does that. 00:18:19.393 --> 00:18:19.833 Anke: I love that. 00:18:19.833 --> 00:18:20.233 I love that. 00:18:20.234 --> 00:18:21.703 It's because it's all connected. 00:18:22.043 --> 00:18:26.093 It's not just, because you said it before, it's not just physical pain, 00:18:26.093 --> 00:18:28.223 it's emotional pain, even energetic pain. 00:18:28.223 --> 00:18:30.643 So it's all, it's all interconnected. 00:18:30.713 --> 00:18:33.263 So it's not, you can't just kind of like, Oh yeah, no, just kind of poke on 00:18:33.263 --> 00:18:34.743 that sore muscle and then you're good. 00:18:35.103 --> 00:18:38.573 So I think that overall, um, Understanding and connection. 00:18:38.573 --> 00:18:40.673 I just love that holistic approach. 00:18:40.673 --> 00:18:42.203 That's why you're holistic, right? 00:18:42.203 --> 00:18:42.313 Right? 00:18:43.283 --> 00:18:44.523 Because, you know, 00:18:45.093 --> 00:18:53.263 Dr. Ed: I think one of the things that, that has influenced a lot of what I do is 00:18:53.263 --> 00:18:58.543 too, that when I was a kid, I had a lot of social challenge and difficulty because 00:18:58.543 --> 00:19:00.843 I'm, I am definitely on the spectrum. 00:19:01.743 --> 00:19:09.603 And I was not able to understand a lot of the whole social weirdness 00:19:09.613 --> 00:19:11.103 that neurotypical people have. 00:19:12.413 --> 00:19:15.423 And, um, I really 00:19:17.653 --> 00:19:21.283 think that that, that I've always found it easier with animals to 00:19:21.283 --> 00:19:24.073 understand and communicate with animals and work with animals than 00:19:24.073 --> 00:19:25.423 I have been able to with people. 00:19:26.563 --> 00:19:30.763 Which is a funny thing, really, but it's certainly contributed to me being able 00:19:30.763 --> 00:19:36.208 to, to, to, to you know, hopefully educate other people how to do all this too. 00:19:37.348 --> 00:19:40.478 Anke: Well, it's, it's really like building, building the bridge, right? 00:19:40.588 --> 00:19:43.498 Because it's almost like you're sitting sort of in, in the 00:19:43.508 --> 00:19:44.868 middle with your understanding. 00:19:44.868 --> 00:19:47.218 You understand this side, you understand that side. 00:19:47.218 --> 00:19:50.988 So you're like the translator between, between people and their dogs, right? 00:19:52.548 --> 00:19:53.228 It's, yeah. 00:19:53.288 --> 00:19:56.398 And then because there is that big gap, so it's really a needed, 00:19:56.738 --> 00:19:59.698 needed space in between to, yeah. 00:19:59.988 --> 00:20:03.618 Because you see it so often, you know, is there something, If you could say 00:20:03.618 --> 00:20:09.658 one thing that people that so like most people do wrong or misinterpret 00:20:09.708 --> 00:20:13.768 about, could you pinpoint one thing or is it, is it, is that not a thing? 00:20:15.358 --> 00:20:21.268 If you say like one thing that people kind of misinterpret in their dogs or, or? 00:20:22.288 --> 00:20:25.528 Dr. Ed: Look, I think, I think there's a few things. 00:20:26.838 --> 00:20:31.548 One is that people just don't really understand or, or put 00:20:31.548 --> 00:20:33.448 any effort into learning. 00:20:33.953 --> 00:20:41.118 dog book, or animal speak I call it, in terms of what Animals are 00:20:41.118 --> 00:20:45.698 expressing through their non verbal communication and animals are incredibly 00:20:45.708 --> 00:20:47.568 skillful non verbal communicators. 00:20:48.458 --> 00:20:55.858 When you think about humans, um, you know, we are, we are largely non verbal too, 00:20:56.728 --> 00:20:58.888 but we think when we're totally verbal. 00:20:58.898 --> 00:21:03.238 We forget about the non verbal thing, but people are getting a lot of unconscious 00:21:03.238 --> 00:21:04.878 information through the non verbal thing. 00:21:04.888 --> 00:21:07.478 But if you can. 00:21:08.243 --> 00:21:08.963 Um, 00:21:12.143 --> 00:21:16.903 just start thinking about what is your dog trying to say? 00:21:16.903 --> 00:21:19.633 What are they trying to say to you in terms of their little changes 00:21:19.663 --> 00:21:22.533 in expression and their body language and their posture and, 00:21:22.583 --> 00:21:23.743 and all those kinds of things. 00:21:23.743 --> 00:21:28.393 And there's some, if you, if you go looking for books on, um, body 00:21:28.393 --> 00:21:31.523 language and, and that sort of thing with dogs, there's actually some 00:21:31.623 --> 00:21:33.213 really, really good resources, but. 00:21:34.043 --> 00:21:39.263 People, I think, misinterpret a number of things when it comes to dog communication, 00:21:39.263 --> 00:21:42.213 which is probably one of the reasons why people get bitten more than they should. 00:21:43.543 --> 00:21:46.253 But I think the biggest, I honestly think that silent pain 00:21:46.253 --> 00:21:49.933 is probably the biggest blind spot of all that needs to be remedied. 00:21:50.173 --> 00:21:55.913 And, um, I'm hoping that everyone listening will tell all their friends 00:21:56.093 --> 00:21:58.023 about this because it's a huge problem. 00:21:58.024 --> 00:22:01.443 And like I said, at least every second animal I get my hands on. 00:22:01.753 --> 00:22:04.323 There's significant pain in the body that the humans are like, what? 00:22:05.583 --> 00:22:06.103 Really? 00:22:06.413 --> 00:22:07.713 Anke: Yeah, that's massive. 00:22:07.753 --> 00:22:12.493 That's not just every, you know, once in a while, like it's literally, 00:22:12.713 --> 00:22:14.203 you know, every second dog. 00:22:14.233 --> 00:22:15.133 That's incredible. 00:22:15.983 --> 00:22:16.323 Yeah. 00:22:16.403 --> 00:22:18.703 Is there, is there, is that, like, what about younger dogs? 00:22:18.924 --> 00:22:23.423 I have a young one and I have one that's getting older now. 00:22:23.843 --> 00:22:29.103 So is there, is there like a, I mean, I would assume that's the thing. 00:22:29.143 --> 00:22:29.943 That's my question. 00:22:29.953 --> 00:22:33.113 My first assumption goes, Oh, it'll happen more with older dog. 00:22:33.153 --> 00:22:33.803 Is that true? 00:22:34.743 --> 00:22:36.543 Dr. Ed: It does happen more with dogs. 00:22:37.093 --> 00:22:42.333 There is no doubt of that because soft tissue pain, urofacial pain builds up 00:22:42.443 --> 00:22:46.563 incrementally in layers in the body with all the incidents and traumas 00:22:46.563 --> 00:22:49.653 and wear and tear of life over time. 00:22:49.943 --> 00:22:53.573 So there's no doubt that by the time you get to an animal that's 00:22:53.573 --> 00:22:57.413 9, 10, 11, 12 years old, you can just about guarantee that they'll 00:22:57.413 --> 00:23:01.453 have reasonable or significant levels of silent pain going on. 00:23:02.733 --> 00:23:07.023 It's not so common in younger animals, but you can still get The odd younger animal 00:23:07.023 --> 00:23:08.803 that can have really severe silent pain. 00:23:08.803 --> 00:23:16.213 I had a 14 or 16 week old Rhodesian Ridgeback puppy come to see me, must be 00:23:16.213 --> 00:23:20.993 a year or two ago now, and this puppy was showing worrying behavioral signs. 00:23:21.448 --> 00:23:25.718 Um, Anxiety, Potential Aggression, and I've got to tell you it 00:23:25.718 --> 00:23:26.968 was a monster at that age. 00:23:26.968 --> 00:23:27.918 It was huge. 00:23:29.068 --> 00:23:36.068 Um, when I met this puppy and got my hands on it, it had severe whole body 00:23:36.158 --> 00:23:37.918 soft tissue pain, neck and back pain. 00:23:38.868 --> 00:23:41.268 Now was that a birth injury or something else? 00:23:41.268 --> 00:23:41.948 I don't know. 00:23:41.988 --> 00:23:44.518 Did it get dropped on its head by one of the kids in the 00:23:44.518 --> 00:23:45.808 family where the puppies were? 00:23:45.818 --> 00:23:46.518 I don't know. 00:23:47.628 --> 00:23:51.178 But the, and this dog too, when, when I, I was. 00:23:51.933 --> 00:23:54.903 Being as gentle as I could, but it showed signs that it was going to bite me. 00:23:55.513 --> 00:23:56.423 It didn't like that. 00:23:57.913 --> 00:23:59.323 We did a series of treatments. 00:23:59.863 --> 00:24:02.823 I think on the second treatment, this puppy decided that screaming 00:24:02.823 --> 00:24:05.363 at the top of its voice might stop me touching its orbit. 00:24:05.513 --> 00:24:10.423 So our ears were almost bleeding after 90 minutes of this dog screaming its 00:24:10.423 --> 00:24:14.483 head off, and it had the loudest, most piercing scream I've ever heard. 00:24:14.484 --> 00:24:20.873 But, you know, about, About 80 minutes in, it gave up screaming, thankfully, 00:24:21.853 --> 00:24:24.743 because I wasn't going to be able to stop until it stopped screaming. 00:24:25.463 --> 00:24:30.703 Um, and we did a series of about four or five body work, whole energy body 00:24:30.703 --> 00:24:35.583 balance sessions, resolved the pain, and that puppy went off to train 00:24:35.583 --> 00:24:38.853 up as an assistance dog with their autistic daughter and is now out. 00:24:39.758 --> 00:24:43.738 everywhere, going to shops and helping this girl navigate the world. 00:24:43.748 --> 00:24:50.648 So we hadn't found that real chance of behavioral euthanasia for that puppy if 00:24:50.648 --> 00:24:54.518 we hadn't discovered that hidden pain and resolved it through therapeutic touch. 00:24:54.518 --> 00:25:00.238 And therapeutic touch is really the only way that you can resolve this 00:25:00.258 --> 00:25:04.908 kind of soft tissue pain because When you give pain relief, well it might 00:25:04.908 --> 00:25:07.288 make the animal feel better, but it's not getting to the root cause. 00:25:07.288 --> 00:25:11.328 You've really got to get into the tissues and use touch and movement in an 00:25:11.328 --> 00:25:16.478 intelligent and sensitive way to release that pain and tension out of the body. 00:25:16.478 --> 00:25:18.738 And you often release a whole lot of anxiety and trauma out 00:25:18.738 --> 00:25:19.828 of the body at the same time. 00:25:19.828 --> 00:25:22.818 So you often don't just see physical changes, you often see really 00:25:22.818 --> 00:25:25.498 beautiful, profound behavioral changes. 00:25:26.833 --> 00:25:30.373 Anke: Wow, so it almost feels like, well, this should be a standard part 00:25:30.373 --> 00:25:33.893 of what you're looking at when you have an anxious dog, when you have 00:25:33.893 --> 00:25:38.693 a, you know, a stressed dog or with behaviour, even aggression issues. 00:25:39.003 --> 00:25:42.023 Well, you know, that would definitely be one of the things to look at. 00:25:42.073 --> 00:25:44.403 You know, maybe there's some pain underneath and there's probably, 00:25:44.813 --> 00:25:47.243 in most cases, maybe it would be. 00:25:47.243 --> 00:25:50.133 You think like, well, it should probably be the first thing you look at. 00:25:51.173 --> 00:25:54.943 Dr. Ed: There's nearly always pain involved with, with dogs with anxiety. 00:25:55.203 --> 00:25:55.973 Absolutely. 00:25:56.973 --> 00:25:58.963 And Um. 00:26:01.188 --> 00:26:04.258 There's some particular qualities of therapeutic touch in the whole energy 00:26:04.258 --> 00:26:08.408 body balance method which cause a very strong body level relaxation response 00:26:09.218 --> 00:26:14.578 and that really is the foundation of how I treat anxious animals and we have seen 00:26:14.578 --> 00:26:17.033 some incredible, incredible results. 00:26:17.543 --> 00:26:21.423 Behaviour modification through relaxing touch, because you use the 00:26:21.423 --> 00:26:25.543 relaxing touch, a lot of these animals, their nervous system is over here in 00:26:25.673 --> 00:26:29.873 overdrive, should be over here in the kind of green zone, healthy relaxation, 00:26:29.873 --> 00:26:34.993 but a lot of anxious animals, their baseline is actually on the aroused 00:26:35.003 --> 00:26:37.133 side of neutral, away from neutral. 00:26:38.463 --> 00:26:42.133 Every time you use touch to bring the whole animal's being into relaxation, 00:26:42.133 --> 00:26:46.043 you're actually training and teaching them how to do that regulation process. 00:26:46.758 --> 00:26:49.818 And when they relax in the face of a trigger or something that they've 00:26:49.818 --> 00:26:53.128 decided that's terrifying, even if it's just a sausage sizzling in 00:26:53.128 --> 00:26:56.508 a pan, which I've had a number of dogs freak out about, then they're 00:26:56.508 --> 00:27:00.988 starting to learn that, wow, I relaxed. 00:27:01.428 --> 00:27:03.128 Maybe that thing's not so scary. 00:27:03.168 --> 00:27:08.868 So over weeks and months, you can have a, a mental relearning things as well. 00:27:10.688 --> 00:27:15.098 Anke: Actually, this, this whole, like this, this dog of mine, the one who 00:27:15.098 --> 00:27:20.858 just passed in April, he was You know, he came, well, like super traumatized 00:27:20.888 --> 00:27:24.908 and I, I lived in this area where it was, you know, like historic part of 00:27:24.918 --> 00:27:29.648 town and, and I didn't see the thing is, I would imagine just like vets. 00:27:29.728 --> 00:27:34.768 I've not met a vet whose intentions, I doubt it. 00:27:34.948 --> 00:27:39.158 Like, you, I mean, it's always clear that they are to help the animals, right? 00:27:39.528 --> 00:27:39.818 And. 00:27:40.243 --> 00:27:44.863 And I was kind of that dog owner as well, you know, I did my best 00:27:44.863 --> 00:27:48.663 and I wasn't there to, to make my life, my dog's life difficult. 00:27:49.063 --> 00:27:53.993 But in hindsight, I realized that actually living where I was living in this historic 00:27:53.993 --> 00:27:59.543 part of town with tiny little alleyways and, and, you know, and tourists and 00:27:59.553 --> 00:28:02.143 groups and bicycles and cats and dogs. 00:28:02.183 --> 00:28:06.833 And it was like, and like, when I looked at it, I saw some, there was 00:28:06.833 --> 00:28:09.663 basically one sentence that changed. 00:28:09.883 --> 00:28:12.543 You know, everything in a sense. 00:28:12.553 --> 00:28:13.013 It's like, 00:28:15.193 --> 00:28:19.473 my only job is to help my dog relax, and all of a sudden I looked at it, 00:28:19.833 --> 00:28:24.243 threw the lens off, and I'm like, that dog has sensory overload 24 7. 00:28:25.933 --> 00:28:30.513 You know, and he couldn't, and I remember then when I moved away out of town 00:28:30.573 --> 00:28:34.343 into a quiet place, next thing I know this dog lays there, belly up, and I'm 00:28:34.343 --> 00:28:35.903 like, I've never seen him like this. 00:28:36.743 --> 00:28:39.563 And so it was in hindsight that I realized that this dog 00:28:39.563 --> 00:28:42.043 had never been able to relax. 00:28:42.558 --> 00:28:45.308 At all, you know, and it's like, Oh my God. 00:28:45.308 --> 00:28:46.138 And I didn't even know. 00:28:46.138 --> 00:28:48.258 And I think that's probably what's behind all of this. 00:28:48.258 --> 00:28:52.398 Like, you don't even know, like now I'm kind of a lot more aware than I, like 00:28:52.408 --> 00:28:55.978 now I'd see it, you know, but then I didn't know, you know, I just took in 00:28:55.978 --> 00:28:59.788 a puppy that somebody else was about to kill off and so now I'm like, okay, 00:28:59.798 --> 00:29:01.368 I've got another puppy, wasn't the plan. 00:29:01.368 --> 00:29:05.698 So here I go, you know, and he just sort of lived where I was living until I 00:29:05.698 --> 00:29:07.468 realized that he wasn't doing well there. 00:29:10.408 --> 00:29:13.548 Dr. Ed: Yeah, that's a pretty common thing to see as well. 00:29:13.548 --> 00:29:18.268 Um, dogs have got incredibly sensitive senses and, and if they 00:29:18.268 --> 00:29:22.428 are not habituated and socialized well, then lots of environments 00:29:22.428 --> 00:29:23.728 can be really challenging for them. 00:29:24.338 --> 00:29:28.938 Anke: Yeah, but it's that, it's that learning process on both sides, you know, 00:29:28.958 --> 00:29:30.928 that, that understanding each other. 00:29:30.928 --> 00:29:35.798 And I think it's so beautiful to, to have that tool and that actually helps 00:29:35.798 --> 00:29:37.948 with that process and really, teaches us. 00:29:37.958 --> 00:29:38.758 So I just love it. 00:29:39.078 --> 00:29:43.158 So we're gonna definitely want everybody to buy, to buy the book. 00:29:43.168 --> 00:29:43.848 It's a great read. 00:29:44.378 --> 00:29:44.798 I have it. 00:29:44.978 --> 00:29:50.028 So, so definitely pop the link and where can, if somebody 00:29:50.038 --> 00:29:51.658 goes, Oh my God, I'm hooked. 00:29:52.788 --> 00:29:57.148 I really want to be the best person I can be for my, for my dogs. 00:29:57.568 --> 00:30:02.228 Where can they go and find out more about So, 00:30:02.228 --> 00:30:06.478 Dr. Ed: um, there'll be a few links. 00:30:07.348 --> 00:30:10.938 You'll see a link where you can get a print version at Amazon. 00:30:11.358 --> 00:30:13.548 You'll see another link where you can get a digital version. 00:30:13.548 --> 00:30:18.278 And there's a couple of special little, um, Forces and things that you can add 00:30:18.278 --> 00:30:21.568 on to just the digital version of the book that you won't find anywhere else 00:30:21.578 --> 00:30:23.768 that are pretty cool on in that one. 00:30:25.028 --> 00:30:26.408 You can go to thehealingvet. 00:30:26.788 --> 00:30:32.653 com to learn more about my services and I am available for zoom consultations 00:30:32.653 --> 00:30:35.423 worldwide as well if you want to do work one on one with an animal that 00:30:35.513 --> 00:30:40.483 has got any kinds of challenges health behavior whatever or just wanting to 00:30:40.903 --> 00:30:45.593 do the best possible holistic kind of life plan that you can and you 00:30:45.593 --> 00:30:47.463 can go to wholeenergybodybalance. 00:30:47.543 --> 00:30:50.023 com to check out the modality. 00:30:50.163 --> 00:30:55.243 And we have home and practitioner trainings for web bodywork for pets, 00:30:55.253 --> 00:30:59.133 which really focuses on the hands on side of things, and also for web 00:30:59.193 --> 00:31:02.763 energy work for animals, which is more about intuitive development, 00:31:02.853 --> 00:31:04.383 energy healing, that kind of thing. 00:31:05.343 --> 00:31:05.743 Anke: Love it. 00:31:06.053 --> 00:31:07.303 Well, thank you so much. 00:31:07.313 --> 00:31:08.353 Highly recommended. 00:31:08.668 --> 00:31:10.798 So I've got my hands into all of that. 00:31:11.908 --> 00:31:12.808 Highly recommend it. 00:31:12.838 --> 00:31:17.398 Thank you so much for coming and sharing about your work and the new book that 00:31:17.398 --> 00:31:18.728 we want to get in everybody's hands. 00:31:18.738 --> 00:31:19.688 So thank you for coming. 00:31:19.728 --> 00:31:20.338 Dr. Ed: You're welcome. 00:31:21.658 --> 00:31:23.098 It's an absolute pleasure to be on your show. 00:31:23.168 --> 00:31:24.008 Thank you so much. 00:31:24.498 --> 00:31:24.948 Anke: Thank you. 00:31:26.296 --> 00:31:27.526 Thanks so much for listening. 00:31:28.046 --> 00:31:32.346 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:31:32.446 --> 00:31:34.226 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:31:35.016 --> 00:31:38.506 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:31:38.936 --> 00:31:44.506 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:31:44.606 --> 00:31:46.976 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:31:46.977 --> 00:31:50.706 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:31:51.126 --> 00:31:52.266 I'd love an introduction. 00:31:52.746 --> 00:31:54.576 Email me at Anke. 00:31:54.846 --> 00:31:59.081 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.