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Matt: Hey, Ritus, welcome to the program.

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Rytis: Hey Matt, thanks for inviting.

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Matt: You are everywhere,
everywhere in the WordPress space,

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everywhere in the podcast space.

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Omni send coming into the
WordPress space recently.

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a fantastic sponsor of the WP
minute sponsoring other media

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outlets, my friends, colleagues, and
frenemies in the WordPress space.

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So I appreciate that as a long
time, WordPress content creator.

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We'll talk about that in a moment, but
man, there hasn't, there, there's not

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a question you haven't answered yet.

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I was going through, I
was listening to like.

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Audio books that you, that you are a
guest, like I found like in the, in the

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abstract corners of the web interviews
that you probably don't even remember

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you've been on, that I listened to.

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You've been everywhere, man.

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Is podcasting like.

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A mainstream thing for you to get
the word out for Omni send it.

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Was that your idea or is your
team like, Hey, you gotta get

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on a podcast and do this stuff.

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Rytis: Yeah, Matt.

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yeah.

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I'm, I'm great.

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I'm really thrilled that it seems for
you that, everywhere we as omniscient

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everywhere, but, it's, like the
feeling we have as your motion or your

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search, made this impression for you.

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So kind of a feeling and,
and the metrics that we have.

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So the brand awareness is, not And, and
then globally and in WordPress ecosystem

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as well, and OmniCenter was focusing for
quite many years as we're not like new

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company, we'll be celebrating 10 years
in the market this year already 2024.

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but I mean, it's a startup path, so it
took us a few years, few initial years to

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really understand our product market fit.

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The, about the question is like
the podcast is the main strategy.

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It's not, I would say it's
a supporting strategy.

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So it's, it is, it is very important
for us, but still kind of vast

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majority of our customers are coming.

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Then we have a need for, for email
marketing, for marketing automation, SMS.

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As for us, we, are not the
first in the customer journey.

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The first in the customer
journey is a platform, WordPress.

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In this case, mainly we work
with those who sell online.

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So basically they, they choose
WordPress, they choose WooCommerce on

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top, they choose agencies to develop,
they choose sometimes agencies to

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help with their marketing activities.

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Sometimes they do it on their own,
depending if it's a very small business

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or maybe a bit It's a bit larger
business that we have internal marketing

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teams and we do not outsource it.

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and then the, in search for, for
the solution to help, to run their

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marketing activities and mainly
OmniCent is for retention marketing.

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So we have to have already some customers,
to send them emails to, you have to

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have opt ins collected, et cetera,
SMS messages, push notifications.

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So we are kind of, not top of a
funnel or top of a customer journey.

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once the customer, the businesses
are creating their websites,

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their online stores, et cetera.

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So that's why the main channel
for us, then customers are

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looking for the best solution.

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So basically Googling, asking
charge a PT nowadays, et cetera.

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What would you

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Matt: You're taking all
my future questions.

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That's

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Rytis: We can, we can, we can
dig deeper into those questions.

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Yeah.

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But the, the podcasts and, and, and
like this public presence of, of

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myself as a co founder and CEO of this
organization, it's, it's really like

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supporting a function, I would say.

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And some, some time ago, like, you
know, our marketing team, we raised

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this issue for the marketing team that,
we have a lack of brand awareness.

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And then we came with a plan that it is,

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Matt: Yeah.

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Rytis: we will sell you, you
know, you have to be present.

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Matt: yeah, it's funny because there's
a lot, there's a lot of stuff I want

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to unpack their number one, you know,
it's funny to me, not funny, but it's,

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it's interesting to hear you because
I'm, I'm the same way, you know,

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Hey, we've been in this space for
10 years, but we still feel startup.

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Like most startups are like,
yeah, man, six months, one year.

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And we're already thinking like
we're, we're something else, right?

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Where this mega corp or we're
not thinking startup mode.

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And there's like all these, like
middle management comes in all these

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logistics, et cetera, et cetera.

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But it's, it's great to hear you say we're
a decade in, we're still thinking startup.

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Because generally you probably think
that because you're bootstrapped, right?

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And you don't have sort of this
outside capital coming in and

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it's a totally different mindset.

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I think that's a mindset that a lot of
folks in the WordPress space, try it.

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Like they're thinking, yeah, it's
only going to be a couple of years.

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And then I'm out, right?

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Like I'm out of this.

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I'm no longer the startup mode.

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No, this is something that when you're
not taking that outside capital,

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you're living and breathing this stuff.

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And probably every day you, like you said,
we're still trying to get our name out.

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Like we want people to know about us.

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And you've been hundreds of podcasts and
you're like, you still feel that way.

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So I don't really have a direct
question there, but I, you know,

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I applaud you for feeling like,
yeah, like I'm still out there.

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I'm still working.

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I'm still making this thing happen.

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And a lot of people think it's just
going to go away after a couple of years.

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It doesn't.

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And even if you took money in, you'd
probably feel that you probably feel

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the same way times 10, you know, of
that feeling of trying to perform,

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Rytis: And, and, you know, I think
it's, it's like on top of that, what I

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completely agree to everything you said.

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And, and I think it's just like
a, your personal engagement,

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which is very important.

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It doesn't matter if you took a venture
or private equity funding can maybe later

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stages, et cetera, or you're a bootstrap.

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But basically how much of a
personal involvement do you have?

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How much skin of the game
do you have in your company?

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Yeah.

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So, There are some startups, especially
like later stage that they have been,

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sold, practically sold to, to like PEs
and there are professional CEOs that

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being hired and not, not founders.

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So they are, from my point of
view, they are a bit more relaxed

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and then that's when the company
starts to become the corporation.

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not by the best mean of it.

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and yeah, a lot of bureaucracy,
a lot of middle management,

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et cetera, comes into play.

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and yeah, so I think it's still
kind of about the mindset.

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It's very important to keep this mindset.

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So, and two very important details
here are first is still ambition to

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grow quite fast, the, to conquer.

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other areas where you have
not been present, et cetera.

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And the second is about, keeping you
as lean as possible and then very

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efficient and very lean organization,
et cetera, and not building too much of

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a hierarchy in the company, et cetera.

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So I think it's, it's just,
and if you are lean enough.

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that that means that you are fast
usually to make decisions, to make some

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turnarounds if they are needed because
they are needed in any organization

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and any business that you do.

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Sometimes what you did like last year
could not work this year anymore,

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and you have to, to, to, to make a
shift, you know, and, how, how fast

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and how flexible and how adaptable
are you in, in those situations.

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So I think that's, that's one of that's.

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Those are other indications that you still
run and operate and think as a startup.

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Doesn't matter of the
age, of organization,

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Matt: do you remember back when
you were running your digital

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agency and servicing customers?

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When you were a younger entrepreneur,
do you remember the days or did

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you ever have the days where you're
like, yeah, product sass software.

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I need to be there.

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I want to get there.

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It's going to be this easy ride.

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I can't wait to pick the color
Porsche that I'm going to purchase.

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Like, do you remember those days
where you maybe thought it was

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going to be instantaneous success
or everything would be great, but

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not to put you in a bad position.

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But like 10 years later, you're like, I'm
still here growing this business, man.

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Like I thought it was going
to be done like six years ago.

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Did you ever have that
thought back in the day?

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Rytis: I still don't have
Porsche or Ferrari, so.

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And you know, there was a funny
situation that, we kind of like

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reviewed our pricing and for some of our
customers, it decreased a little bit.

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And one, one, unhappy customer just
replied to our, announcement email

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that, I, I wish you all your success.

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CEO will buy a new Lambo for
this, so, so I did not do that.

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but, but yeah, in general, in
general, of course it's, it's, Bill

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Gates, once said, and I really love
quoting this, that, people usually

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overestimate what they can achieve
in one year, but they underestimate

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what they can achieve in 10 years.

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so I think it's a really
applicable to any startup and

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to OmniSend as well that, even.

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We look back, like we, we use
OKRs as a planning methodology.

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So each quarter we review it.

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Sometimes we succeed, more often I would
say we fail with those plans, et cetera.

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And then the numbers and
metrics are looking red.

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But then you look back a little bit
retrospectively, like for 12 months,

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months back at least or Three years, five
years, 10 years from 10 years perspective.

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So like the achievements are just amazing.

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And the journey you, you,
you made is, is amazing.

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So, so back in the days, really
SARS was something that we were keen

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on building because myself and my
co founder, we are from Lithuania.

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And then the vast majority of
OmniSend is, team is based here.

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We do have remote colleagues.

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We do have 20, like five ish people in
the United States as a vast majority of

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our customers are in the United States.

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We do have in the UK and, and,
and remote colleagues, et cetera.

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But, but still, so being
kind of like, from.

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a country with a small market,
basically you had two options.

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I've ended, this is running
a digital marketing agency.

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It's, it's all about like
selling your, your hours.

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And this is not scalable too much.

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It's scalable to some
extent, but no, not too much.

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So kind of building a SaaS was always,
I mean, not always, but there was a

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desire to build a potentially a SaaS.

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So that seemed to be a bit
easier business or at least more

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predictable as you do not have to.

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to fight for the same customer
again and again and again.

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I mean, yeah, of course you have
to, you have to always deliver the

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value for our customers as we call
ourselves not bootstrap, but customer

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funded organization, because this is
our customers who make a decision.

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We don't have any long term contracts.

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Yeah.

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So this is our customer who
make a decision each month.

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If they believe that Omniscient
will create value in the

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coming months, month for them.

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And that's why we pay us in advance for.

00:11:21.766 --> 00:11:22.486
At least one month.

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And, yeah, so sauce was kind of like,
compelling business idea and, and another

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reason that you can build it globally.

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And, that doesn't matter because
it's, it's, it's a product and

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doesn't matter where you're based.

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Doesn't matter how funny your accent is.

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that's after all those like small things,
doesn't matter that much in comparison

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to selling, let's say, human hours
and, and, and professional services.

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but did we believe that it's
going to be a easy success?

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I wouldn't say so.

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And you know, look, it took us two
years to start earning something

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Matt: yeah, yeah,

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Rytis: after the product
launched to the first money.

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The US two years and we saw
kind of a good reaction.

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Customers are installing, but nobody's
willing to pay for our service.

00:12:06.631 --> 00:12:07.051
Mm-Hmm.

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Matt: I, I, I ran, just so you, for
your context, I ran a digital agent,

00:12:11.561 --> 00:12:14.081
a WordPress agency, ran it with
my father for a decade, 10 years.

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We started in 2000, end of
2007 ish into 2008 is when we

00:12:18.731 --> 00:12:19.936
started the, the organization.

00:12:21.396 --> 00:12:24.236
So anyway, I ran that for 10 years,
but I remember like just getting

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into the WordPress space and being
like, Hey, this customer stuff, this

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agency stuff, like you're one check
away from going bankrupt, right?

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If project doesn't pay you,
they forget to pay you.

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You're, you're just like waiting for this.

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you know, this is early on
in, in my digital career.

00:12:38.776 --> 00:12:40.586
And I saw word, I was
in the WordPress space.

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We're building WordPress websites.

00:12:42.546 --> 00:12:47.326
And I was like, plugins,
themes, this is the way to go.

00:12:47.326 --> 00:12:51.506
I want to build this product
because surely this is easier

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than, you know, picking a color
blue for somebody's website.

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And they're just like going back and
forth like, I don't really like that.

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Oh, we brought this to the board.

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They don't like this color.

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And it's just like, Oh God.

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But early on, I was a super fan of Mixergy
and, and you were on the show in 2019.

00:13:07.666 --> 00:13:11.346
You had stated that, you were doing
about 6 million ARR back then.

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And I remember just being enamored
with the guests that Andrew was

00:13:15.776 --> 00:13:19.136
bringing on being like, yeah, like
I want to build, I want to get into

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the software space because this
does seem like the promised land.

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but certainly not easy.

00:13:24.346 --> 00:13:27.016
and I learned, and I learned
my lessons there, as well,

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starting product companies.

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Andrew said something, go ahead.

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Yep.

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Rytis: Yeah, but I think it's kind
of like to add to what you said, I

00:13:33.176 --> 00:13:36.176
think is running an agency and maybe
some of the listeners who are running

00:13:36.176 --> 00:13:40.356
agencies now maybe struggle with that
and then dreaming about or thinking

00:13:40.366 --> 00:13:44.636
about, about like launching their own
products, plugins, themes, et cetera.

00:13:45.276 --> 00:13:50.126
I think still running an agency is
a very, very good school and lessons

00:13:50.126 --> 00:13:53.886
that you have to learn because
this is where you are actually.

00:13:53.886 --> 00:13:58.226
being forced, probably that's the
right word, agency job force is used

00:13:58.236 --> 00:14:00.406
to always reflect to customer's needs.

00:14:01.016 --> 00:14:06.086
And of course, once you start building
like a plugin, so in our case, OmniSend

00:14:06.086 --> 00:14:09.146
as a SaaS, et cetera, it's, it's,
it's a bit tricky that you should

00:14:09.146 --> 00:14:12.926
not fulfill all, all of your customer
requests and all of your customer needs.

00:14:12.946 --> 00:14:16.846
Because if you would, because you
have tens of thousands of maybe

00:14:16.846 --> 00:14:18.566
hundreds of thousands of customers.

00:14:18.996 --> 00:14:20.916
you cannot, fulfill all of their needs.

00:14:20.926 --> 00:14:24.326
So you have to start group to start
building and to start understanding

00:14:24.326 --> 00:14:25.706
what is actually behind it.

00:14:25.956 --> 00:14:28.006
Of course, you get rid of
all this bullshit that you

00:14:28.006 --> 00:14:29.196
mentioned about, Oh, okay.

00:14:29.206 --> 00:14:30.336
Make my logo bigger.

00:14:30.796 --> 00:14:35.196
There is that iconic video
about joke, make my logo bigger.

00:14:35.406 --> 00:14:35.766
Oh yeah.

00:14:35.766 --> 00:14:37.896
Just the, the, the, the,
the tone of the blue.

00:14:37.896 --> 00:14:38.811
I don't like, yeah.

00:14:38.811 --> 00:14:39.681
Completely agree.

00:14:39.681 --> 00:14:43.941
I've been bad and bad and I believe
a lot of listeners, maybe in, in such

00:14:43.941 --> 00:14:45.681
situations on, on the daily basis.

00:14:45.711 --> 00:14:52.011
But, but in general, it really puts
customer centricity in, into your DNA,

00:14:52.766 --> 00:14:53.026
Matt: Yeah.

00:14:53.131 --> 00:14:53.341
Rytis: yeah.

00:14:53.341 --> 00:14:56.341
So I think it's, it's a, it's a very
good, good, good, good lesson to,

00:14:56.341 --> 00:14:58.321
to, to go through a very good school

00:14:58.856 --> 00:15:03.536
Matt: So back in 2019, when you were
on the show with, with Andrew, at

00:15:03.536 --> 00:15:07.636
Mixergy, he opens up with, guys,
this is a quote from the transcript.

00:15:07.746 --> 00:15:10.856
I probably listened to this episode
too, back in the day, but he opens up

00:15:10.856 --> 00:15:14.136
with, guys, how many freaking email
marketing companies are out there,

00:15:14.896 --> 00:15:16.166
right, as his opening question.

00:15:16.526 --> 00:15:20.796
And this is a testament there, like,
obviously MailChimp was back, was

00:15:20.806 --> 00:15:22.646
out in 2019, it wasn't that long ago.

00:15:22.656 --> 00:15:24.106
So, There was a lot of competition.

00:15:24.106 --> 00:15:25.866
There still is a lot of competition.

00:15:26.196 --> 00:15:26.616
Rytis: Mm-Hmm.

00:15:26.896 --> 00:15:30.516
Matt: You said if we're, if we're
not building it for everyone, right?

00:15:30.516 --> 00:15:33.056
Cause everyone would come to you and say,
I want this thing that MailChimp has.

00:15:33.056 --> 00:15:36.626
I want this thing that I don't
know, another competitor might have.

00:15:36.896 --> 00:15:42.386
And you're saying, no, we're focusing on
let's say e commerce connections only.

00:15:42.646 --> 00:15:46.706
First thing I see when I log into
OmniSend is connect your store.

00:15:47.406 --> 00:15:51.106
Immediately putting somebody into the
mode of, Oh, I need to, I probably

00:15:51.106 --> 00:15:54.766
need to be selling something to get
the most value out of Omni send.

00:15:54.986 --> 00:15:59.516
It's not, I want to start an email
newsletter for my soccer club or my

00:15:59.516 --> 00:16:03.086
football club, as you may refer to
it as, it's not that it's something

00:16:03.136 --> 00:16:05.746
specific, hyper specific for customers.

00:16:06.566 --> 00:16:08.446
Did you know that right out of the gate?

00:16:08.556 --> 00:16:10.806
Did you go specifically into e commerce?

00:16:11.166 --> 00:16:12.906
How come you made that decision so early?

00:16:12.911 --> 00:16:13.131
Rytis: Yeah.

00:16:13.131 --> 00:16:14.091
So a few assumptions.

00:16:14.091 --> 00:16:14.491
So, yeah.

00:16:14.491 --> 00:16:17.551
So you're referring to, to Andrew
and Mixergy podcast, so you,

00:16:17.561 --> 00:16:19.941
we were at, like 6 million ARR.

00:16:19.951 --> 00:16:24.481
So currently we're a bit more than 51.

00:16:25.271 --> 00:16:27.891
So we grew quite, quite some,

00:16:28.601 --> 00:16:29.261
Matt: Considerably.

00:16:29.956 --> 00:16:31.906
Rytis: Yeah, in that area.

00:16:31.916 --> 00:16:35.676
And yeah, and I think it's kind of like
this customer centricity and the focus is,

00:16:35.696 --> 00:16:38.286
is one of the things that helped us a lot.

00:16:38.286 --> 00:16:41.836
And it's one of the first assumptions
when we started building the product, they

00:16:41.836 --> 00:16:44.746
get like referring to those agency days.

00:16:44.756 --> 00:16:47.576
So some of our customers
were selling online.

00:16:48.021 --> 00:16:52.781
Among all the variety of customers
we're serving and we kind of identify

00:16:52.841 --> 00:16:56.531
that there were two main assumptions
So first one is that those who sell

00:16:56.531 --> 00:17:01.421
online we basically have entire customer
journey happening online That's why

00:17:01.421 --> 00:17:05.691
you have more breadcrumbs You have more
touch points happening online with your

00:17:05.711 --> 00:17:10.701
customer and this more data exchange is
happening That's why you can automate

00:17:11.131 --> 00:17:14.631
More of your marketing activities, and
that's why your marketing messages could

00:17:14.641 --> 00:17:16.201
be more relevant for your customers.

00:17:16.581 --> 00:17:21.361
And this basically kind of like our
vision up until today is really to make

00:17:21.361 --> 00:17:26.991
marketing relevant as organization as
a tool and Like sending more automated

00:17:27.331 --> 00:17:31.511
emails or SMS messages or whatever push
notifications those free channels that

00:17:31.551 --> 00:17:37.081
we support now With a very relevant
content is what really embodies our vision

00:17:37.121 --> 00:17:40.871
and that's what makes us really happy
That's each year there are more and more

00:17:41.121 --> 00:17:45.381
automated messages send in comparison
to bulk emails, and it really drives

00:17:45.381 --> 00:17:47.361
more and more revenue for our customers.

00:17:47.791 --> 00:17:51.501
So that was kind of first assumption
that digital those who sell online, we

00:17:51.501 --> 00:17:55.501
have this, unfair advantage in comparison
to soccer clubs, as you mentioned.

00:17:56.321 --> 00:18:00.381
And the second was second assumption
was that e commerce in general will

00:18:00.391 --> 00:18:05.281
be growing because once we launched
the ones we launched the in the u.

00:18:05.281 --> 00:18:05.741
s.

00:18:06.001 --> 00:18:12.291
like Around 16 percent of all retail
was happening online on only 16%.

00:18:12.301 --> 00:18:16.141
Now it's like 21, 20, like 4%.

00:18:16.141 --> 00:18:18.371
It's something COVID accelerated a lot.

00:18:18.371 --> 00:18:22.931
So it's, it's growing, but still it's kind
of one fourth or maybe one fifth of all.

00:18:22.976 --> 00:18:24.026
entire retail.

00:18:24.616 --> 00:18:28.216
So that's what did not change with
OmniSense since the very first day.

00:18:28.216 --> 00:18:32.006
So, and again, I mean, sometimes
people ask, Oh, I like super

00:18:32.006 --> 00:18:33.536
smart or are you lucky?

00:18:33.816 --> 00:18:35.026
I think it's a mix of both.

00:18:35.726 --> 00:18:36.566
I mean, not definitely

00:18:36.861 --> 00:18:37.391
Matt: You're smart.

00:18:37.401 --> 00:18:39.501
I've listened to a lot
of hours of you talking.

00:18:39.501 --> 00:18:45.401
I

00:18:45.506 --> 00:18:47.796
Rytis: great to be here
and then to talk with you.

00:18:47.806 --> 00:18:50.446
Well, you have a lot of
this contextual questions.

00:18:50.446 --> 00:18:54.586
So, So what I think it was like very
important that our assumptions could

00:18:55.166 --> 00:18:56.746
could prove right or could prove wrong.

00:18:57.446 --> 00:18:59.546
They proved to be right, which is great.

00:18:59.546 --> 00:18:59.746
Yeah.

00:18:59.746 --> 00:19:05.426
So basically as focusing in the niche and
those who's for like to focus product for

00:19:05.426 --> 00:19:10.066
those who sell online, actually what made
us unique in comparison to male chimps of

00:19:10.066 --> 00:19:15.066
the world, those generic email service or
marketing automation service providers.

00:19:15.516 --> 00:19:17.596
So that's what kind of
defined as in the market.

00:19:17.596 --> 00:19:19.026
And we basically focused to that.

00:19:19.846 --> 00:19:24.016
to that specific market niche, which is
big enough and fast growing enough to

00:19:24.016 --> 00:19:26.816
help us, grow as an organization as well.

00:19:26.816 --> 00:19:30.576
yeah, so that was kind of like, and this
is the only thing that did not change

00:19:31.226 --> 00:19:33.246
on since the very inception of OmniCent.

00:19:33.416 --> 00:19:37.086
On the other hand, just to
add on it, the definition of e

00:19:37.106 --> 00:19:38.846
commerce by itself is changing.

00:19:39.716 --> 00:19:43.126
And if only like back in
10 years ago, there was.

00:19:43.826 --> 00:19:48.586
90 percent of e commerce was
basically selling physical goods.

00:19:49.286 --> 00:19:55.556
Now, just an example, like booking
a doctor appointment is e commerce.

00:19:56.256 --> 00:20:00.546
It's the same online transaction
because entire, almost entire

00:20:00.546 --> 00:20:02.146
customer journey happens online.

00:20:02.456 --> 00:20:04.706
there is a discovery phase
that is happening online.

00:20:04.736 --> 00:20:07.886
There is like social proof
collection phase, like the

00:20:07.886 --> 00:20:09.256
reviews are very important.

00:20:09.286 --> 00:20:12.256
the, the, the, the social proof
is very important, et cetera.

00:20:12.646 --> 00:20:14.936
the booking of appointment happens online.

00:20:15.566 --> 00:20:20.006
In many cases, many cases, payment
for the service happens online.

00:20:20.366 --> 00:20:23.026
And instead of just delivering the parcel.

00:20:23.261 --> 00:20:28.701
to you, or you going to the doctor, to the
barber, to, to the messageur, et cetera.

00:20:29.401 --> 00:20:30.981
The only, this part is different.

00:20:31.241 --> 00:20:36.121
And then after, after, after
service journey again gets online.

00:20:36.131 --> 00:20:38.111
So you are being asked to leave a review.

00:20:38.121 --> 00:20:39.111
How did you like it?

00:20:39.121 --> 00:20:42.231
You are being reminded, maybe
it's time to, for you to visit

00:20:42.231 --> 00:20:43.501
again, et cetera, et cetera.

00:20:43.891 --> 00:20:47.541
So very recurring bookings are
happening online, recurring

00:20:47.571 --> 00:20:48.651
payments that happen online.

00:20:48.971 --> 00:20:51.851
So basically just definition
of what is online retail,

00:20:51.851 --> 00:20:53.321
what is e commerce is, is, is.

00:20:53.666 --> 00:20:57.166
Being brought in nowadays and,
OmniSend is adapting to this as

00:20:57.166 --> 00:20:59.466
well, adapting to this as well.

00:20:59.836 --> 00:21:04.026
yeah, so we are currently serving
in those who run online bookings,

00:21:04.036 --> 00:21:06.166
who sell, digital goods online, etc.

00:21:06.166 --> 00:21:11.066
It's not only physical, physical
stores and a lot of best practices.

00:21:11.076 --> 00:21:14.336
They are very similar on
another in those cases.

00:21:15.036 --> 00:21:17.526
Matt: want to frame a
pretty hefty question.

00:21:17.526 --> 00:21:20.346
I'll try to articulate it
as best as I possibly can.

00:21:20.706 --> 00:21:21.936
we look at social media.

00:21:22.146 --> 00:21:26.246
We look at algorithms, filtering
out content, content being censored.

00:21:26.876 --> 00:21:27.306
You know.

00:21:27.846 --> 00:21:31.116
I think I and maybe a lot of
other marketers in the year,

00:21:31.146 --> 00:21:35.176
well, we're in 2024, I almost
said 2023, but we're now in 2024.

00:21:35.486 --> 00:21:39.026
People are still saying, hey,
the best line of defense for your

00:21:39.026 --> 00:21:42.236
business is still going to be
owning your content on your website.

00:21:43.071 --> 00:21:47.511
And owning an email list, because
hopefully with air quotes, when you want

00:21:47.511 --> 00:21:52.161
to send someone an email, it's going,
you're going to get that customer versus

00:21:52.161 --> 00:21:55.861
making a post on Facebook that you don't
boost or that you don't promote, right?

00:21:55.861 --> 00:21:58.811
So you have a thousand fans on
your Facebook page, you make a

00:21:58.811 --> 00:22:03.181
post, 80 of them see it, unless you
boost it, then 300 of them see it.

00:22:03.541 --> 00:22:07.521
Now I see, and this is just my theory,
I'd love for you to unpack this if you

00:22:07.521 --> 00:22:09.971
possibly can, that for you and OmniSend.

00:22:10.671 --> 00:22:12.011
It might not be about.

00:22:12.486 --> 00:22:15.326
How do we compete against
MailChimp feature to feature?

00:22:15.336 --> 00:22:18.136
How do we compete against XYZ
competitor feature to feature?

00:22:18.136 --> 00:22:20.016
This new thing in the
marketing space is good.

00:22:20.016 --> 00:22:20.886
We should go after it.

00:22:21.516 --> 00:22:26.966
I see email as my God, you've got
to deal with spam laws, governments.

00:22:27.566 --> 00:22:33.666
Deliverability, and that is a very
powerful space, you know, I'm not in the

00:22:33.666 --> 00:22:38.076
European market, but in the US market,
you think of like, you know, people going

00:22:38.076 --> 00:22:42.596
to the government and, and, and, and
talking to Congress, you know, and you

00:22:42.916 --> 00:22:47.986
into it, leveraging billions of dollars
to say, you know, we're the best place.

00:22:48.586 --> 00:22:53.136
To deliver email, not these other
little competitors, and that is, that

00:22:53.136 --> 00:22:55.466
is where I think your battle is fought.

00:22:55.526 --> 00:22:57.306
Maybe not now, but maybe in the future.

00:22:58.006 --> 00:23:01.936
What, what are your thoughts on
like competition and fitting into

00:23:02.636 --> 00:23:07.106
governments and, and, and multicultural
systems that you have to span across?

00:23:07.806 --> 00:23:11.706
Rytis: So probably, at least to what I
would digest from your question, there

00:23:11.706 --> 00:23:13.806
are two, two, two different aspects here.

00:23:13.806 --> 00:23:17.126
So one is like, again, social
media or other channels.

00:23:17.476 --> 00:23:21.836
So once we start, and it's probably a very
illustrative example, once we launched

00:23:21.836 --> 00:23:26.896
Omniscient, we were We're trying to
fundraise and we are looking, going, after

00:23:26.896 --> 00:23:30.886
some VCs, et cetera, but like everybody
was looking at us like, what email?

00:23:31.486 --> 00:23:32.046
Come on.

00:23:32.406 --> 00:23:36.466
I felt like, you know, I was
pitching a leather shoes innovation.

00:23:36.576 --> 00:23:37.296
Come on.

00:23:37.316 --> 00:23:38.886
It's it's it's done deal.

00:23:39.251 --> 00:23:42.641
It's like MailChimp, the rather
constant contact like giant company

00:23:42.651 --> 00:23:44.841
back in the days already, et cetera.

00:23:45.711 --> 00:23:49.611
but yeah, so email, proved to be
very resilient and proved to be the

00:23:49.611 --> 00:23:53.501
most effective retention channel
for anyone who sells online.

00:23:53.891 --> 00:24:00.341
So to our customer's experience, it's
kind of like 15 to 30, 35 percent of

00:24:00.341 --> 00:24:02.141
their revenues coming through email.

00:24:02.741 --> 00:24:08.121
so it's, and it's like Return on
investment is by far the best.

00:24:08.131 --> 00:24:09.131
So by far the best.

00:24:09.141 --> 00:24:13.811
So basically, yeah, and owning
this, some, some, there is kind of

00:24:14.251 --> 00:24:18.821
circulating those sexy, terms like
first party data, zero party data.

00:24:18.821 --> 00:24:21.461
Sometimes it's being called,
but basically it's owning the

00:24:21.461 --> 00:24:23.041
relationship with your customers.

00:24:23.551 --> 00:24:23.751
Yeah.

00:24:23.751 --> 00:24:24.741
To what, to what you're right.

00:24:24.741 --> 00:24:28.421
Because if you use like Facebook,
Instagram, Tik TOK, whatever, Amazon,

00:24:28.421 --> 00:24:32.101
if you sell through Amazon, you do not
own relationship with your customers.

00:24:32.611 --> 00:24:32.961
So I

00:24:33.006 --> 00:24:35.396
Matt: and that's my, and that's the one
thing I just want to just interject.

00:24:35.406 --> 00:24:39.716
That's the, that's the connection right
there is Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

00:24:39.756 --> 00:24:41.966
They go, Oh, you want
access to the customer?

00:24:42.501 --> 00:24:45.291
You're going to, you're going to pay
us 30 percent tax on top of that.

00:24:45.561 --> 00:24:51.311
And I see Gmail, AOL, Yahoo doing the
same thing to email Gmail, obviously

00:24:51.321 --> 00:24:54.161
much more aggressively with like
auto filtering and their things.

00:24:54.411 --> 00:24:55.981
And I see them going, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.

00:24:56.681 --> 00:24:59.721
All these people have email and they're
getting, and they're making money off it.

00:24:59.741 --> 00:25:00.261
No, no, no, no.

00:25:00.261 --> 00:25:02.821
We're going to need to
find a way to filter this.

00:25:02.821 --> 00:25:05.751
And I, and I think this legacy
type of technology is very

00:25:05.761 --> 00:25:07.291
difficult to do that too.

00:25:07.741 --> 00:25:09.271
Try as hard as they might.

00:25:09.501 --> 00:25:11.021
I think it's still very difficult.

00:25:11.371 --> 00:25:14.891
Rytis: hmm agree, and I think it's kind
of like email addresses like similar

00:25:14.891 --> 00:25:21.471
to a physical address Yeah, so when
however your Post company etc is be

00:25:21.521 --> 00:25:25.541
like charging you for the service, etc
But it's still like this is what you

00:25:25.601 --> 00:25:31.391
own and this is what you have all the
freedom to own and this is a free It's

00:25:31.391 --> 00:25:36.536
very similar to WordPress Because this
is open source in general, because like

00:25:36.546 --> 00:25:43.746
Gmail, Yahoo, Microsoft, et cetera,
they are just inbox service providers.

00:25:43.776 --> 00:25:46.256
They do not own the protocol by itself.

00:25:46.916 --> 00:25:51.836
And this is the key difference to,
to, Facebook, to Google in general,

00:25:51.846 --> 00:25:55.896
that because of the, private
protocols, they are closed ecosystems.

00:25:56.006 --> 00:25:59.876
And then email as a protocol
is ecosystem is open.

00:26:00.276 --> 00:26:00.476
Yeah.

00:26:00.476 --> 00:26:03.446
There are dominating players, which
have, because we're just kind of like

00:26:03.446 --> 00:26:05.456
similar to, to, to, to WordPress.

00:26:05.486 --> 00:26:09.676
And, but it's easy again, it's still the,
the, the ownership, it belongs to the

00:26:09.676 --> 00:26:11.736
people, to, to the owner of email address.

00:26:12.316 --> 00:26:12.516
And.

00:26:12.966 --> 00:26:16.966
I would say what is very important
to add here, and I don't see any, any

00:26:16.966 --> 00:26:21.356
how those companies being able to,
to, to really monetize or to start

00:26:21.366 --> 00:26:26.916
charging for, for using any email yet
with those filters, I would say, cause

00:26:26.956 --> 00:26:30.696
like from our point of view, initially
when there was an in Europe, there was

00:26:30.706 --> 00:26:37.096
this GDPR, which came into power when
20, 16, maybe ish on 2017, et cetera.

00:26:37.476 --> 00:26:42.636
And then there was a Californian act,
similar to GDPR, which basically, okay,

00:26:42.636 --> 00:26:46.356
it's, it's, it's only technically, like,
you know, applicable for California.

00:26:46.356 --> 00:26:50.946
But basically if you, if you sell
statewide national nationwide, you in

00:26:50.946 --> 00:26:53.306
the States, you have to comply with this.

00:26:53.816 --> 00:26:54.766
so basically.

00:26:55.466 --> 00:26:59.806
There was a little bit of, of scariness
here, because we thought, okay, maybe

00:26:59.806 --> 00:27:03.256
it will make a negative impact, but
in opposite, I think that made a

00:27:03.256 --> 00:27:07.146
positive impact because it forced
businesses to really follow the best

00:27:07.146 --> 00:27:09.016
practices and follow the best rules.

00:27:09.436 --> 00:27:14.096
And for, for services like ours,
there is a bit less fight to fight.

00:27:14.256 --> 00:27:15.426
against the bad actors.

00:27:15.726 --> 00:27:18.166
Because, you know, there are
really, really like criminals.

00:27:18.196 --> 00:27:21.196
There are scammers, phishers, et
cetera, who try to steal the data.

00:27:21.316 --> 00:27:24.636
They understand that we do, bad
things and they want to do that.

00:27:24.666 --> 00:27:26.576
And this is the work we do.

00:27:26.576 --> 00:27:28.556
And this is illegal and it's criminalized.

00:27:29.096 --> 00:27:33.676
And there are good practices and
there is kind of a gray zone.

00:27:33.726 --> 00:27:37.406
So there were a lot of companies
that would, okay, I mean, yeah, you

00:27:37.406 --> 00:27:39.216
know, the holiday season is coming.

00:27:39.226 --> 00:27:42.626
We have this list, which we acquired,
maybe not legal, et cetera, but okay.

00:27:43.061 --> 00:27:44.101
I'll just do once.

00:27:44.991 --> 00:27:45.781
Matt: no one will notice

00:27:46.461 --> 00:27:50.261
Rytis: Yeah, no one noticed or maybe
at least I will get like a small fine,

00:27:50.271 --> 00:27:52.001
you know, for first thing, et cetera.

00:27:52.001 --> 00:27:54.071
So that's worth risking.

00:27:54.771 --> 00:27:58.551
All those, all those regulations
by maybe implied like by the

00:27:58.551 --> 00:28:02.551
governments, they just regulated this
and there were, there are way fewer.

00:28:02.996 --> 00:28:05.436
People are businesses who
are in this gray zone.

00:28:06.176 --> 00:28:10.456
So I think it's kind of in general that
that is a positive thing for, for the

00:28:10.456 --> 00:28:15.166
consumer because they are less spam
because your inbox looks way better now.

00:28:15.276 --> 00:28:19.406
And even kind of like the Gmail
you refer to, even though they have

00:28:19.426 --> 00:28:21.956
this promotion tab, but that's okay.

00:28:22.066 --> 00:28:27.436
If you send a promotional messages,
they end up in promotional tab and a

00:28:27.436 --> 00:28:29.986
lot of people open promotional tabs.

00:28:30.626 --> 00:28:33.756
and they read those emails
and they buy and that's okay.

00:28:33.846 --> 00:28:38.316
And you know, and sometimes us marketers,
because we subscribe so much because of

00:28:38.326 --> 00:28:43.166
a professional interest, we think that
everybody subscribes as crazy as we do.

00:28:43.406 --> 00:28:46.691
But if you are a doctor, if you are
a pharma, If you're a policeman, you

00:28:46.691 --> 00:28:50.621
don't subscribe to every newsletter, you
subscribe to the few, which you really

00:28:50.621 --> 00:28:54.461
trust those brands, which you wait for
those emails to come in and you buy

00:28:54.471 --> 00:28:56.451
from, from, from, from those emails.

00:28:56.781 --> 00:29:00.051
So, you know, we should not, sometimes
if we're marketers, we should not

00:29:00.051 --> 00:29:03.121
apply, our behavior to all of them.

00:29:03.191 --> 00:29:06.711
Matt: because we ruin everything us
marketers, you know, we just we're

00:29:06.951 --> 00:29:11.651
the ones that ruin it all When did you
make the when did you open your eyes?

00:29:12.091 --> 00:29:19.301
To WordPress, Shopify for, for years,
if I again, go back, let's say pre COVID

00:29:19.761 --> 00:29:24.371
Shopify was coming, you know, hit after
hit, I mean, platform was improving,

00:29:24.921 --> 00:29:30.171
you know, back when Gutenberg was
first released, we had a mass exodus

00:29:30.171 --> 00:29:33.791
of people who are like Gutenberg, not
for me, like developers and agencies

00:29:33.791 --> 00:29:37.716
like Gutenberg, not for me, don't want
to be with WordPress through this ride.

00:29:38.306 --> 00:29:39.956
I'm going to transition to Shopify.

00:29:39.996 --> 00:29:43.496
I've have interviewed folks that
ran shop of super successful

00:29:43.496 --> 00:29:44.876
Shopify agencies over the years.

00:29:45.636 --> 00:29:49.946
And just do it, you know, hit after
hit doing amazing things, but at the

00:29:49.946 --> 00:29:55.956
same time, WordPress huge juggernaut,
massive space, when did you turn your

00:29:55.956 --> 00:29:59.966
attention to WordPress being so deeply
rooted in the Shopify space starting off?

00:30:00.666 --> 00:30:04.676
Rytis: So, there were two, I would
say, maybe not the high moments.

00:30:04.716 --> 00:30:05.656
That was a journey.

00:30:05.726 --> 00:30:09.006
So we had the WooCommerce.

00:30:09.086 --> 00:30:12.526
Yeah, specifically, not like
general WordPress, but WooCommerce

00:30:12.526 --> 00:30:16.876
integrations, integration and
Magento integration back in the day.

00:30:16.876 --> 00:30:20.836
So we launched nine integrations at
the very beginning of the company.

00:30:21.536 --> 00:30:25.166
I'm sorry to two of them proved to
grow just way faster organically.

00:30:25.166 --> 00:30:30.266
That was Shopify and big commerce,
which should probably the name you

00:30:30.276 --> 00:30:32.906
do not hear too much nowadays about.

00:30:32.986 --> 00:30:35.456
And at that time they were equal.

00:30:35.456 --> 00:30:37.386
I had to have competition with Shopify.

00:30:37.436 --> 00:30:42.376
They were equal by size by the customer
count, et cetera, like 10 years ago, but

00:30:42.376 --> 00:30:44.036
then Shopify took off, really took off.

00:30:44.036 --> 00:30:48.586
And to be honest, like for three
years, even maybe three pre COVID.

00:30:48.636 --> 00:30:48.846
Yeah.

00:30:48.846 --> 00:30:52.816
So we made a really good reference
to the, to the time, perspective.

00:30:52.816 --> 00:30:58.461
So I would say, I really believe
Shopify is going to a global dominance

00:30:58.491 --> 00:31:02.421
like natural monopoly because they
were successful as I said, they, they,

00:31:02.431 --> 00:31:03.751
they really build a great product.

00:31:03.761 --> 00:31:08.571
They managed to support, they build
a great ecosystem and, and, agencies,

00:31:08.581 --> 00:31:14.291
developers like, plugins, SaaS
services that, that, enhance Shopify

00:31:14.311 --> 00:31:16.031
core core functionality, et cetera.

00:31:16.081 --> 00:31:20.691
but I think that's to where we already
touched about having this still startup

00:31:20.691 --> 00:31:23.211
mentality or becoming a corporation.

00:31:23.391 --> 00:31:27.321
So I think just Shopify became a
corporation and they start playing some

00:31:27.321 --> 00:31:31.591
political games and and then even the
kind of in our space, there is a, I have a

00:31:31.631 --> 00:31:37.891
preferred provider, which apparently, them
IPO ing showed that Shopify owns a quite

00:31:37.891 --> 00:31:40.021
significant stake in the provider game.

00:31:40.031 --> 00:31:44.931
So they kind of just threw in their
promise, they, they, they, they kind of

00:31:44.941 --> 00:31:49.471
build their, from my point of view, they
build their ecosystem on the promise to

00:31:49.471 --> 00:31:53.671
always be open and always be the best
and the most friendly for the ecosystem.

00:31:53.991 --> 00:31:55.471
And for quite a while they were.

00:31:55.471 --> 00:31:58.211
but then they start just playing
some political games, et cetera.

00:31:58.271 --> 00:32:02.021
And again, this is still great
ecosystem to be, I, I don't blame them

00:32:02.021 --> 00:32:07.271
too much, but, but, but yeah, now we
see, I don't believe that they are

00:32:07.301 --> 00:32:08.991
going to global dominance anymore.

00:32:09.121 --> 00:32:11.751
they will remain a big, provider.

00:32:12.006 --> 00:32:16.226
For, for those run e commerce businesses,
but we see that we struggle a lot

00:32:16.416 --> 00:32:18.366
outside, English speaking markets.

00:32:18.706 --> 00:32:23.576
So us, UK, Australia, very important
markets for them, but they struggled to go

00:32:23.606 --> 00:32:25.766
outside those markets for whatever reason.

00:32:25.766 --> 00:32:29.136
I don't have a very clear
explanation and in opposite, and

00:32:29.136 --> 00:32:30.636
it shows kind of all the trends.

00:32:30.636 --> 00:32:30.816
Yeah.

00:32:31.066 --> 00:32:34.446
There was an exodus you mentioned
from, from other platforms, including

00:32:34.446 --> 00:32:38.096
WordPress, including WooCommerce,
to Shopify, but But, but what we

00:32:38.096 --> 00:32:39.566
see now, it's stopped already.

00:32:39.576 --> 00:32:43.346
And in opposite, we see that some
of the customers are getting back.

00:32:43.346 --> 00:32:46.976
Some agencies are getting back, more and
more agencies are developing both now

00:32:46.976 --> 00:32:49.236
for WordPress and Shopify, et cetera.

00:32:49.236 --> 00:32:52.816
And it's for the customers to choose, or
maybe they just understood that, you know,

00:32:52.816 --> 00:32:54.866
there is no one size fits all solution.

00:32:54.876 --> 00:32:58.516
And in different cases, there are
sometimes WordPress is better,

00:32:58.546 --> 00:33:00.216
sometimes Shopify is better, et cetera.

00:33:01.626 --> 00:33:02.796
yeah, so that's kind of like.

00:33:03.106 --> 00:33:05.546
The, the rational
calculation, that we made.

00:33:05.626 --> 00:33:06.086
Yeah.

00:33:06.746 --> 00:33:10.796
But there was a different, so some, some,
some years ago we kind of relaunched,

00:33:10.816 --> 00:33:14.956
maybe three years ago, we relaunched
our WooCommerce integration without,

00:33:14.956 --> 00:33:17.521
any major expectations for that.

00:33:18.241 --> 00:33:21.951
And we just start seeing initial
like traction, quite good traction,

00:33:21.951 --> 00:33:25.731
organic traction, not, not, not
accelerated, not stimulated without

00:33:25.851 --> 00:33:27.851
any our go to market activities.

00:33:28.421 --> 00:33:31.171
And, we saw that, like
customer lifetime value.

00:33:31.701 --> 00:33:32.261
It's great.

00:33:32.261 --> 00:33:36.511
Then basically we proved ourselves and our
customers, we can create value as much as

00:33:36.511 --> 00:33:38.711
we do for, let's say, Shopify customers.

00:33:38.711 --> 00:33:43.181
and this is the, the, the, I think
this is the, the most important thing

00:33:43.181 --> 00:33:47.381
for any service provider, either
it's US SaaS or agency, et cetera,

00:33:47.381 --> 00:33:50.261
or plugin maker or a designer.

00:33:50.291 --> 00:33:53.681
So if you create enough
value for the customers.

00:33:54.291 --> 00:33:57.291
If you do so, of course you will
find more customers, like, like

00:33:57.291 --> 00:34:00.321
the ones that you already proved
yourself and your customers,

00:34:00.321 --> 00:34:01.761
that you are a valuable solution.

00:34:02.241 --> 00:34:06.231
So this is kind of the way we turn
to, to, to this tipping point.

00:34:06.231 --> 00:34:06.591
But okay.

00:34:06.596 --> 00:34:08.481
This is the fastest
growing ecosystem for us.

00:34:08.481 --> 00:34:09.231
Organically.

00:34:09.236 --> 00:34:11.871
We, we see that there is
a good retention rate.

00:34:11.871 --> 00:34:15.751
Customers are happy, they leave
good reviews for us, they stay with

00:34:15.751 --> 00:34:17.971
us for, for quite long, et cetera.

00:34:17.971 --> 00:34:21.681
And of course we made a decision that, we
should invest more into this ecosystem.

00:34:22.546 --> 00:34:25.366
And, and of course, you know,
the, in general, the playbook

00:34:25.366 --> 00:34:26.956
is different than in Shopify.

00:34:26.966 --> 00:34:29.286
So we just, we just learn here.

00:34:29.746 --> 00:34:30.606
We're quite new here.

00:34:31.291 --> 00:34:33.381
Matt: And I think it's going
to be like community is

00:34:33.491 --> 00:34:34.871
hopefully part of that playbook.

00:34:34.881 --> 00:34:36.151
Hold that thought for a second.

00:34:36.251 --> 00:34:40.071
A friend of the show, Jordan Gall,
he had a company called Cart Hook,

00:34:40.371 --> 00:34:42.981
which integrated into Shopify.

00:34:42.981 --> 00:34:43.981
I don't know if you know him or

00:34:44.116 --> 00:34:44.686
Rytis: Yeah, I know.

00:34:44.816 --> 00:34:44.916
I

00:34:45.081 --> 00:34:45.391
Matt: Yeah.

00:34:45.681 --> 00:34:48.461
So, I mean, he said
publicly like, Yep, great.

00:34:48.501 --> 00:34:49.211
Everything was great.

00:34:49.211 --> 00:34:49.711
We're building.

00:34:49.711 --> 00:34:50.451
We're making money.

00:34:50.551 --> 00:34:51.681
We're making a lot of money.

00:34:52.061 --> 00:34:57.071
And suddenly, Shopify Same kind
of scenario where it's like, Oh,

00:34:57.071 --> 00:35:00.371
they're investing in either their own
solution or a competitor solution.

00:35:00.371 --> 00:35:02.051
And before you know, it slowly creeps out.

00:35:02.461 --> 00:35:08.261
Listen, I, there are, you know, there
are some parallels here to wordpress.

00:35:09.141 --> 00:35:12.891
com and Shopify, or maybe automatic
globally, And WordPress, just

00:35:12.891 --> 00:35:13.941
like we're seeing with Shopify.

00:35:14.461 --> 00:35:21.111
I don't really trust any company that
is, using, let's say social capital.

00:35:21.891 --> 00:35:23.241
You're getting free social capital.

00:35:23.691 --> 00:35:24.631
Shopify is amazing.

00:35:24.811 --> 00:35:26.561
They partner with me, they send me leads.

00:35:26.561 --> 00:35:29.121
They they're, you know,
they're recommending my plugin,

00:35:29.451 --> 00:35:30.611
on the Shopify ecosystem.

00:35:30.631 --> 00:35:31.331
Oh, that's amazing.

00:35:31.571 --> 00:35:35.461
Eventually that catches up
just like free products.

00:35:36.096 --> 00:35:36.986
Catch up, right?

00:35:37.036 --> 00:35:37.496
MailChimp.

00:35:37.546 --> 00:35:38.376
Perfect example.

00:35:38.646 --> 00:35:39.026
I don't know.

00:35:39.096 --> 00:35:41.896
You had like 10, 000 emails you
could send for free back in the day.

00:35:41.896 --> 00:35:43.806
Now it's like a hundred, right?

00:35:43.976 --> 00:35:44.756
Whatever it is that they,

00:35:45.041 --> 00:35:46.341
Rytis: Look, so the same with us.

00:35:46.341 --> 00:35:46.501
Yeah.

00:35:46.501 --> 00:35:49.401
We have free plan for the small customers.

00:35:49.471 --> 00:35:49.731
Yeah.

00:35:49.731 --> 00:35:52.891
But at some point, if you grow
successfully, you start paying.

00:35:52.892 --> 00:35:54.561
So that's true.

00:35:54.562 --> 00:35:56.066
Exactly.

00:35:56.776 --> 00:35:58.596
Matt: you know, they, they,
they need to make money.

00:35:59.026 --> 00:36:04.586
And what we're all seeing in the
WordPress space is, well, wordpress.

00:36:04.586 --> 00:36:07.266
com has jetpack jetpack
has all these features.

00:36:07.266 --> 00:36:08.276
It's doing all these things.

00:36:08.436 --> 00:36:10.446
It's doing email newsletters, doing stats.

00:36:10.456 --> 00:36:11.016
It's doing video.

00:36:11.026 --> 00:36:16.316
It's a compelling product, but at the same
time, my, all of my friends and colleagues

00:36:16.346 --> 00:36:17.886
are building these same solutions.

00:36:17.906 --> 00:36:19.006
I work for gravity forms.

00:36:19.006 --> 00:36:19.916
We make forms.

00:36:20.376 --> 00:36:21.766
Jetpack has forms.

00:36:21.806 --> 00:36:25.656
Jetpack has a lot of features that a lot
of us have, but I think in the open source

00:36:25.656 --> 00:36:31.696
world It's harder to pull the rug out
from from the community It's happening

00:36:31.706 --> 00:36:37.676
slowly in some weird areas But I don't
think it'll ever be like the Shopify or

00:36:38.376 --> 00:36:41.276
you know into it buying MailChimp And
it's like oh god, you know where that's

00:36:41.276 --> 00:36:43.256
gonna go, you know, once they buy it.

00:36:43.476 --> 00:36:47.796
We're all screwed And you know, I think
with the power of open sources is what

00:36:47.806 --> 00:36:51.896
makes this a little bit more stable,
as rocky as it can feel sometimes.

00:36:52.596 --> 00:36:52.876
Rytis: Agree.

00:36:52.876 --> 00:36:53.096
Agree.

00:36:53.096 --> 00:36:56.496
And this is again, like relatively
being relatively new to the ecosystem.

00:36:56.496 --> 00:37:01.026
So kind of, this is our initial
impression that there is no, no one

00:37:01.056 --> 00:37:03.316
person, making all the decisions.

00:37:03.316 --> 00:37:03.576
Yeah.

00:37:03.576 --> 00:37:08.686
And of course, like Automatic and Matt,
he, he's a great leader and of course

00:37:08.696 --> 00:37:13.526
he, he owns the credit for, for, for
launching WordPress back in the days.

00:37:13.556 --> 00:37:16.626
but, but yeah, it's not that,
you know, he can make like, Hmm.

00:37:16.626 --> 00:37:22.286
single person decision and everybody
has is being forced to follow and there

00:37:22.286 --> 00:37:27.316
is a way more challenging for the bad
decisions coming from the community.

00:37:27.316 --> 00:37:29.356
And it's, it's, it's way more distributed.

00:37:29.356 --> 00:37:31.866
So it's not that you kind
of like, you know, make a.

00:37:32.621 --> 00:37:35.621
Evil agreement, with
someone and, and that's it.

00:37:35.621 --> 00:37:38.981
And that's how you squeeze every, every
competition out of, out of the, out

00:37:38.991 --> 00:37:40.281
of the market, out of the community.

00:37:40.291 --> 00:37:42.491
So I think it's, it's
really, really powerful.

00:37:43.021 --> 00:37:45.791
Of course, to what, what we see.

00:37:46.406 --> 00:37:49.436
If, if that's okay to share this
impression that, and that's being

00:37:49.436 --> 00:37:53.006
kind of publicly, it's, it's, it's,
it's, it's being talked, during the

00:37:53.006 --> 00:37:57.486
events, et cetera, that, attracting
of new developers, and, younger

00:37:57.536 --> 00:38:01.276
generation developers, I think it's,
it's, it's, crucially important for

00:38:01.286 --> 00:38:03.136
WordPress ecosystem to, to do that.

00:38:03.526 --> 00:38:05.776
there is like the average, age.

00:38:06.476 --> 00:38:11.276
of attendees in WordPress event
and Shopify event is, is high,

00:38:11.276 --> 00:38:13.166
which is again, a lot of maturity.

00:38:13.376 --> 00:38:16.476
and, and, coming with that, but
at the same time, the balance, I

00:38:16.476 --> 00:38:17.856
think it's very important as well.

00:38:17.856 --> 00:38:21.096
And then tracking the younger
generation is, is very important

00:38:21.096 --> 00:38:22.376
as well for the ecosystem.

00:38:22.606 --> 00:38:24.056
Matt: Where is the
younger generation going?

00:38:24.056 --> 00:38:24.936
Do you have an idea?

00:38:24.936 --> 00:38:27.196
Rytis: so do it yourself mainly.

00:38:27.196 --> 00:38:27.486
Yeah.

00:38:27.546 --> 00:38:30.676
Wix, Squarespace, I believe, or Shopify.

00:38:30.866 --> 00:38:33.546
Matt: just as end users
or as like developers?

00:38:33.711 --> 00:38:37.221
Rytis: Apple, I think both
because it's, it's, it's easier.

00:38:37.321 --> 00:38:38.121
It's easier.

00:38:38.121 --> 00:38:38.451
Yeah.

00:38:38.451 --> 00:38:40.801
So it's, it's basically no code.

00:38:41.351 --> 00:38:42.981
Oh, at least you can start with no code.

00:38:42.981 --> 00:38:47.441
And then, then, then you start and
you, you stick and maybe you, you, you

00:38:47.441 --> 00:38:51.541
improve your capabilities, your skills
as a developer, et cetera, but, but you

00:38:51.541 --> 00:38:53.281
stay within the ecosystem you started.

00:38:53.282 --> 00:38:55.151
So I think it's very important.

00:38:55.151 --> 00:38:58.901
And this is kind of a philosophy that
we have at Omnicent as well, that.

00:38:59.181 --> 00:39:03.791
in the initial level has to be very
easy to start, and it's one of a

00:39:03.791 --> 00:39:07.291
kind of fundamental principles of our
product building that the learning

00:39:07.291 --> 00:39:09.461
curve has to be very, very flat.

00:39:09.461 --> 00:39:11.821
and then, and then, then you start.

00:39:12.011 --> 00:39:12.741
So you started.

00:39:13.321 --> 00:39:14.911
getting results very fast.

00:39:15.051 --> 00:39:18.701
There are a lot of prebuilt presets,
prebuilt designs, et cetera, et cetera.

00:39:18.731 --> 00:39:23.151
Just, you know, a few clicks and you
have up and running platform and you

00:39:23.151 --> 00:39:28.031
start, in our case, start earning money
from email marketing, SMS marketing.

00:39:28.031 --> 00:39:30.281
and this is the proof
that, okay, this is for me.

00:39:30.331 --> 00:39:31.411
I can do it easily.

00:39:31.631 --> 00:39:34.971
And then there is a second layer in,
at least in our product thinking that,

00:39:34.971 --> 00:39:37.021
okay, this is an advanced settings.

00:39:37.431 --> 00:39:38.201
If you want.

00:39:38.701 --> 00:39:42.661
You can end up, you can take the
blank canvas and you start from there.

00:39:42.681 --> 00:39:46.511
Build your own automations, build your
own logic, build your own templates, etc.

00:39:46.941 --> 00:39:50.341
According to your, you
know, brand book, whatever.

00:39:51.071 --> 00:39:55.621
And the third layer is, in our case,
we, we, we call it like, you know, API.

00:39:55.706 --> 00:39:59.676
layer that you can customize as much
as you want and all the flexibility

00:39:59.686 --> 00:40:03.466
is there, but then you need like
developers, you need like specific

00:40:03.466 --> 00:40:08.886
skills and then capabilities to,
to make the most out of a product.

00:40:09.656 --> 00:40:14.116
So, so yeah, so I think like, you
know, some kind of similar logic.

00:40:14.816 --> 00:40:18.586
Applying to, to WordPress could,
could be very, very, and I think

00:40:18.586 --> 00:40:21.856
like, you know, Gutenberg and all
the recent improvements is heading,

00:40:21.866 --> 00:40:24.296
getting towards that direction.

00:40:24.806 --> 00:40:27.906
Because like Wix and Squarespace,
we have the first layer.

00:40:28.156 --> 00:40:31.876
It's very easy to start, but
can you really make something

00:40:31.896 --> 00:40:34.016
more, complicated or complex?

00:40:34.716 --> 00:40:35.656
Not that much.

00:40:35.911 --> 00:40:36.191
Matt: Yeah.

00:40:36.241 --> 00:40:37.546
Rytis: so, but again.

00:40:37.856 --> 00:40:41.456
you know, the, the, the, the,
the beginners start there.

00:40:41.456 --> 00:40:44.026
So that's, I think the biggest
challenge for WordPress.

00:40:44.436 --> 00:40:48.836
Matt: WordPress had it, the luxury of,
if I could say that, of when it first

00:40:48.836 --> 00:40:53.526
came on the scene and really improved
was a time on the internet where.

00:40:54.016 --> 00:40:57.936
I mean, there weren't, there wasn't
a million YouTube tutorials, right?

00:40:57.936 --> 00:41:00.966
There weren't all these folks writing
and showing you how to do WordPress.

00:41:01.306 --> 00:41:02.606
So you had to.

00:41:03.001 --> 00:41:09.481
Like crack open WordPress like I did and
kind of learn HTML CSS PHP a little bit of

00:41:09.481 --> 00:41:15.581
JavaScript how The lamp stack worked right
with hosting Linux Apache mysql PHP How do

00:41:15.581 --> 00:41:20.511
these things all function to get a website
up and running where the kids these days?

00:41:20.661 --> 00:41:25.046
All they're gonna have to do is talk to
AI and just be like hey I want a login

00:41:25.046 --> 00:41:29.066
system with a, with a shopping cart, and
then they, they'll connect up to you.

00:41:29.436 --> 00:41:31.806
so, you know, they, they have
it a lot easier, these days.

00:41:31.811 --> 00:41:32.946
So, yeah, I mean, I agree.

00:41:32.946 --> 00:41:38.056
It's a super challenging time to,
to bring in some fresh, some fresh

00:41:38.061 --> 00:41:41.206
perspective and some fresh folks into
the space because it's detriment to,

00:41:41.686 --> 00:41:43.306
the, you know, the success of WordPress.

00:41:44.006 --> 00:41:44.621
Real, real

00:41:44.701 --> 00:41:45.171
Rytis: success.

00:41:45.171 --> 00:41:45.391
Yeah.

00:41:45.401 --> 00:41:46.151
Matt: long-term success.

00:41:46.151 --> 00:41:46.391
Yeah.

00:41:47.551 --> 00:41:48.131
Speaking of A.

00:41:48.131 --> 00:41:48.271
I.

00:41:48.281 --> 00:41:51.391
real quick, hot topic,
everyone's talking about A.

00:41:51.391 --> 00:41:52.471
I., everyone's doing A.

00:41:52.491 --> 00:41:52.781
I.

00:41:53.361 --> 00:41:57.231
What do you have, do you have anything
AI, are you looking at AI, or is it like,

00:41:57.231 --> 00:42:01.111
hey, let's just wait for this thing to,
to settle in, because my god, we saw

00:42:01.111 --> 00:42:06.911
how fragile OpenAI is, or ChatGPT and
that whole, Sam Altman, non profit slash

00:42:06.951 --> 00:42:11.001
executive team structure, the whole
thing almost collapsed in literally a

00:42:11.051 --> 00:42:14.801
weekend, what are your thoughts, AI,
future of, of that, integrating it

00:42:14.801 --> 00:42:16.411
to the product and, and its promise?

00:42:17.111 --> 00:42:19.811
Rytis: in recent lawsuits
by some major media

00:42:20.071 --> 00:42:21.551
Matt: New York, yeah, New York Times,

00:42:21.841 --> 00:42:23.301
Rytis: Neon Terranx, etc, yeah.

00:42:23.301 --> 00:42:27.391
So, that's just, you know, they
proved that it's just one to one.

00:42:27.431 --> 00:42:35.681
Okay, like 100 words to 99 words,
exactly the same text, what was

00:42:35.691 --> 00:42:37.121
written by a professional writer.

00:42:37.131 --> 00:42:41.571
So, Yeah, we do have, and we do have,
embedded AI solutions with PhenomenaSense,

00:42:41.581 --> 00:42:46.181
so just like few, few, few dimensions, so
the, the, subject line generator, yeah?

00:42:46.181 --> 00:42:50.521
So you, you, you compose an email and
usually it's a kind of a creative,

00:42:50.571 --> 00:42:54.171
cause you have to be sure, you have to
emphasize the most important things and,

00:42:54.411 --> 00:42:57.091
you know, just AI suggests you five.

00:42:57.091 --> 00:43:00.241
you can regenerate and you basically
pick, you change something and I think

00:43:00.251 --> 00:43:05.411
this is a, this is kind of illustrates
how we think about the AI solution

00:43:05.641 --> 00:43:09.721
that it has to do the dinky job
and it has to be assistant for you.

00:43:09.721 --> 00:43:13.201
So I, I'm a little bit of
skeptic, that AI replaces.

00:43:13.856 --> 00:43:17.766
Human intelligence, H I, but I
think it really helps us to, to

00:43:17.766 --> 00:43:19.426
shorten the time to do the same job.

00:43:19.426 --> 00:43:23.016
And so, you know, if you're a creative
writer, sometimes you in a good mood

00:43:23.016 --> 00:43:27.576
and you can come up with 10 versions,
et cetera, be very fresh, et cetera.

00:43:27.586 --> 00:43:31.006
Sometimes you're just tired and,
ah, it takes you so much time to,

00:43:31.416 --> 00:43:35.796
and you need some, you need some,
you know, you know, to, to, to

00:43:36.031 --> 00:43:36.351
Matt: a little bit of

00:43:36.651 --> 00:43:37.151
Rytis: the spark.

00:43:37.151 --> 00:43:39.791
Yeah, this is, yeah, this is a good,
maybe just to catch on something.

00:43:39.791 --> 00:43:43.721
And I've read some time ago,
articles about some of good

00:43:43.741 --> 00:43:45.331
artists, that the painters.

00:43:45.541 --> 00:43:50.751
So they have, they have assistants who
sometimes we just ask assistant to start

00:43:50.781 --> 00:43:55.561
painting because they are out of the mood
and they have no inspiration at that time.

00:43:55.561 --> 00:43:57.831
And the assistant starts
to paint something and then

00:43:57.831 --> 00:43:59.181
the artist has the spark.

00:43:59.261 --> 00:44:01.811
Okay, I will complete this.

00:44:01.811 --> 00:44:02.771
And this is my.

00:44:02.871 --> 00:44:04.261
still artwork.

00:44:04.751 --> 00:44:06.771
So I think this is what AI does.

00:44:06.771 --> 00:44:07.631
And just an example.

00:44:07.631 --> 00:44:07.771
Yeah.

00:44:07.771 --> 00:44:10.471
So subject line generated
or, inline editing.

00:44:10.471 --> 00:44:10.661
Yeah.

00:44:10.661 --> 00:44:14.911
So when you write a copy, there
is a, a, AI, AI generator.

00:44:14.921 --> 00:44:18.501
So you just basically with an
omniscient, you just drive the context.

00:44:18.501 --> 00:44:18.821
Okay.

00:44:18.821 --> 00:44:21.541
I would like to promote,
promote this, Mac.

00:44:21.661 --> 00:44:22.931
Yeah, I have some water here.

00:44:22.931 --> 00:44:24.631
Let's, let's, let's promote the Mac.

00:44:24.631 --> 00:44:24.911
Okay.

00:44:24.911 --> 00:44:27.701
I want to promote this gray
Mac, because it's very fresh.

00:44:27.701 --> 00:44:30.761
It's keeps water fresh for, for
many hours, et cetera, et cetera.

00:44:30.762 --> 00:44:35.391
And AI comes with a proper,
good, good style text, et cetera.

00:44:35.391 --> 00:44:39.511
we tried, we tried a solution
that we, that, entire email

00:44:39.511 --> 00:44:40.811
is being generated by AI.

00:44:40.811 --> 00:44:40.961
Okay.

00:44:40.991 --> 00:44:43.881
people were not adopting that too much.

00:44:44.511 --> 00:44:47.881
and then we changed to this
just a paragraph editing or

00:44:47.881 --> 00:44:49.901
paragraph composing with AI.

00:44:49.911 --> 00:44:53.371
It's being way better adopted in
comparison to the full, because it's

00:44:53.381 --> 00:44:57.041
still kind of me as a marketer who
makes a decision what I want to promote,

00:44:57.771 --> 00:45:00.041
unless you do full automated marketing.

00:45:00.581 --> 00:45:02.711
and, and yes, and, again.

00:45:02.926 --> 00:45:04.316
The assistance is needed.

00:45:04.356 --> 00:45:08.916
This assistance is well accepted
and really welcomed opposite to just

00:45:08.946 --> 00:45:13.736
replacement of a full replacement,
replacement of a, of a human intelligence.

00:45:14.286 --> 00:45:19.196
So this is how we, we think about AI,
that it's a really great assistant.

00:45:19.196 --> 00:45:23.316
And of course, we are trying to embed it
in as much as possible just to do the.

00:45:23.852 --> 00:45:30.381
The, this donkey job where sometimes, you
know, you cannot personalize, like for

00:45:30.391 --> 00:45:34.881
1000 customers, for 100, 000 customers
to write a really, really personal email.

00:45:35.481 --> 00:45:39.101
AI could do that, but again, it's
you who has to make a decision.

00:45:39.501 --> 00:45:40.651
What exactly?

00:45:40.691 --> 00:45:41.001
Okay.

00:45:41.001 --> 00:45:42.701
Not exactly, but what direction?

00:45:43.401 --> 00:45:47.561
What tone and voice, what, what you
want to promote, et cetera, what

00:45:47.571 --> 00:45:50.891
you want to invite your customers
to do, either purchase immediately

00:45:50.891 --> 00:45:54.101
or maybe help them with a product
they purchased already in the past.

00:45:54.101 --> 00:45:58.331
Or maybe just, you know, provide some,
some help, some assistance, et cetera.

00:45:58.341 --> 00:46:01.351
So yeah, so that's how we think about AI.

00:46:02.051 --> 00:46:03.711
Matt: Omni send dot com.

00:46:03.711 --> 00:46:05.201
You can start for free.

00:46:05.211 --> 00:46:06.751
Fantastic sponsor of the show.

00:46:06.761 --> 00:46:06.991
Rita's.

00:46:06.991 --> 00:46:11.421
Thank you so much for connecting, with
my brand and my fellow, colleagues

00:46:11.421 --> 00:46:14.391
brands to help support the WordPress
community, help support content like

00:46:14.391 --> 00:46:16.991
this showing up on yet another podcast.

00:46:17.011 --> 00:46:21.601
I, I think I asked you some questions
that I haven't heard you answer yet today.

00:46:21.601 --> 00:46:24.071
So, I hope, I hope the listener
got some value from it.

00:46:24.331 --> 00:46:25.291
Free plan.

00:46:25.591 --> 00:46:30.761
16 a month, 59 per month, the best
person for this platform right now

00:46:30.761 --> 00:46:34.711
you'd say is folks who are integrating
with e commerce with WooCommerce.

00:46:35.161 --> 00:46:39.321
I do have some, I don't know,
behind the scenes look because

00:46:39.321 --> 00:46:40.451
I do work at Gravity Forms.

00:46:40.451 --> 00:46:45.301
We've been working with your team to,
connect, OmniSend to Gravity Forms

00:46:45.501 --> 00:46:49.681
without the need for WooCommerce
because you can sell stuff with Gravity

00:46:49.681 --> 00:46:52.321
Forms, you can sell stuff with other
things on, on WordPress, of course.

00:46:52.691 --> 00:46:56.281
so anyone who's making that
transaction This is the type

00:46:56.281 --> 00:46:57.021
of customer that should be

00:46:57.206 --> 00:46:57.616
Rytis: Correct.

00:46:57.896 --> 00:46:58.226
Correct.

00:46:58.296 --> 00:47:04.576
And we are currently working and it will
be launched till the end of, Q1, 2024.

00:47:04.576 --> 00:47:09.376
So if you're listening us after
this, so we will, we will have,

00:47:09.466 --> 00:47:14.681
just generic WordPress integration
and plugin for anyone who any

00:47:14.761 --> 00:47:19.531
transactions online and send them
and does it, either gravity forms or

00:47:19.551 --> 00:47:24.301
some LMS systems, et cetera, using
WordPress so we can utilize OmniSend.

00:47:25.001 --> 00:47:26.641
Matt: Best place to connect, OmniSend.

00:47:26.661 --> 00:47:26.951
com.

00:47:26.951 --> 00:47:30.721
You want to send anyone, someone,
anywhere else that you spend

00:47:30.871 --> 00:47:31.551
Rytis: So OmniSend.

00:47:31.591 --> 00:47:32.521
com is the best.

00:47:32.521 --> 00:47:36.081
So you can either request for a demo
and talk to our, account executive.

00:47:36.081 --> 00:47:38.961
So you can just, you know, sign up.

00:47:39.371 --> 00:47:43.121
Have an account and explore on your
own and there are a lot of videos and

00:47:43.121 --> 00:47:46.371
even though if you are not Maybe if you
are happy with your current solution

00:47:47.041 --> 00:47:48.601
We have a great resource center.

00:47:48.611 --> 00:47:51.861
So I'm going to send just only
send resources on send block.

00:47:51.861 --> 00:47:57.361
So there are a lot of written
content video content lessons

00:47:57.361 --> 00:48:01.301
advices How how to better run your
email marketing SMS marketing?

00:48:01.516 --> 00:48:04.546
Web push notification,
notifications and marketing.

00:48:04.956 --> 00:48:06.696
So it doesn't matter
if you use OmniCenter.

00:48:06.696 --> 00:48:11.636
No, we, we do have a lot of resources
for you to, to be a better, marketer.

00:48:11.666 --> 00:48:15.466
And by the way, our website, our
blog is running on WordPress.

00:48:16.031 --> 00:48:16.621
Matt: Fantastic.

00:48:16.621 --> 00:48:17.581
Fantastic stuff.

00:48:18.091 --> 00:48:18.371
Rita's.

00:48:18.371 --> 00:48:19.841
Thanks so much again
for hanging out today.

00:48:20.541 --> 00:48:24.731
Let me just pull this over.

00:48:25.431 --> 00:48:26.681
Hey, Ritus, welcome to the program.

00:48:27.381 --> 00:48:28.671
Rytis: Hey Matt, thanks for inviting.

00:48:29.371 --> 00:48:33.281
Matt: You are everywhere, uh,
everywhere in the WordPress space,

00:48:33.321 --> 00:48:35.261
everywhere in the podcast space.

00:48:35.691 --> 00:48:39.721
I like to do obviously
research of, of, on my guests.

00:48:39.741 --> 00:48:43.601
I know probably, I know that's
a broad statement to make, but

00:48:43.641 --> 00:48:47.331
I'm fairly comfortable with about
80 percent of the guests I have.

00:48:47.361 --> 00:48:49.431
I've known them or seen
them around for years.

00:48:49.881 --> 00:48:54.351
Omni send coming into the
WordPress space recently.

00:48:54.781 --> 00:48:58.911
Um, a fantastic sponsor of the
WP minute sponsoring other media

00:48:58.931 --> 00:49:03.271
outlets, my friends, colleagues, and
frenemies in the WordPress space.

00:49:03.281 --> 00:49:06.851
So I appreciate that as a long
time, uh, WordPress content creator.

00:49:06.971 --> 00:49:11.051
We'll talk about that in a moment, but
man, there hasn't, there, there's not

00:49:11.051 --> 00:49:12.961
a question you haven't answered yet.

00:49:13.761 --> 00:49:15.541
I was going through, I
was listening to like.

00:49:15.771 --> 00:49:20.241
Audio books that you, that you are a
guest, like I found like in the, in the

00:49:20.281 --> 00:49:23.691
abstract corners of the web interviews
that you probably don't even remember

00:49:23.691 --> 00:49:25.901
you've been on, uh, that I listened to.

00:49:25.911 --> 00:49:26.871
You've been everywhere, man.

00:49:27.331 --> 00:49:29.541
Is podcasting like.

00:49:30.036 --> 00:49:33.526
A mainstream thing for you to get
the word out for Omni send it.

00:49:33.536 --> 00:49:36.496
Was that your idea or is your
team like, Hey, you gotta get

00:49:36.496 --> 00:49:37.686
on a podcast and do this stuff.

00:49:38.466 --> 00:49:38.926
Rytis: Yeah, Matt.

00:49:39.046 --> 00:49:40.316
Uh, yeah.

00:49:40.426 --> 00:49:41.906
Uh, I'm, I'm great.

00:49:41.906 --> 00:49:46.356
I'm really thrilled that it seems for
you that, um, everywhere we as omniscient

00:49:46.356 --> 00:49:51.626
everywhere, but, uh, it's, uh, like the
feeling we have as your motion or your

00:49:51.626 --> 00:49:53.826
search, uh, made this impression for you.

00:49:53.826 --> 00:49:57.116
So kind of a feeling and,
and the metrics that we have.

00:49:57.116 --> 00:50:02.736
So the brand awareness is, uh,
not And, and then globally and in

00:50:02.736 --> 00:50:06.986
WordPress ecosystem as well, and
OmniCenter was focusing for quite many

00:50:06.986 --> 00:50:11.156
years as we're not like new company,
we'll be celebrating 10 years in

00:50:11.156 --> 00:50:14.086
the market this year already 2024.

00:50:14.576 --> 00:50:18.736
Uh, but I mean, it's a startup path, so it
took us a few years, few initial years to

00:50:18.736 --> 00:50:20.456
really understand our product market fit.

00:50:20.931 --> 00:50:25.341
The, uh, about the question is like
the podcast is the main strategy.

00:50:25.341 --> 00:50:27.631
It's not, I would say it's
a supporting strategy.

00:50:27.751 --> 00:50:30.841
So it's, it is, it is very important
for us, but still kind of vast

00:50:30.841 --> 00:50:33.111
majority of our customers are coming.

00:50:33.151 --> 00:50:37.551
Then we have a need for, uh, for email
marketing, for marketing automation, SMS.

00:50:38.301 --> 00:50:43.401
As for us, we, uh, are not the
first in the customer journey.

00:50:43.421 --> 00:50:46.551
The first in the customer
journey is a platform, WordPress.

00:50:46.861 --> 00:50:50.071
In this case, mainly we work
with those who sell online.

00:50:50.071 --> 00:50:52.941
So basically they, they choose
WordPress, they choose WooCommerce on

00:50:52.941 --> 00:50:56.311
top, they choose agencies to develop,
they choose sometimes agencies to

00:50:56.321 --> 00:50:57.731
help with their marketing activities.

00:50:57.741 --> 00:51:01.451
Sometimes they do it on their own,
depending if it's a very small business

00:51:01.461 --> 00:51:04.921
or maybe a bit It's a bit larger
business that we have internal marketing

00:51:04.941 --> 00:51:06.671
teams and we do not outsource it.

00:51:07.251 --> 00:51:11.991
Uh, and then the, uh, in search for,
for the solution to help, uh, to run

00:51:12.001 --> 00:51:15.511
their marketing activities and mainly
OmniCent is for retention marketing.

00:51:15.511 --> 00:51:19.811
So we have to have already some customers,
uh, to send them emails to, you have

00:51:19.811 --> 00:51:23.631
to have opt ins collected, et cetera,
SMS messages, push notifications.

00:51:23.961 --> 00:51:28.581
So we are kind of, uh, not top of a
funnel or top of a customer journey.

00:51:29.406 --> 00:51:32.426
Um, once the customer, the businesses
are creating their websites,

00:51:32.426 --> 00:51:33.476
their online stores, et cetera.

00:51:33.816 --> 00:51:38.116
So that's why the main channel
for us, uh, uh, then customers

00:51:38.116 --> 00:51:39.606
are looking for the best solution.

00:51:39.606 --> 00:51:43.646
So basically Googling, uh, asking
charge a PT nowadays, et cetera.

00:51:43.956 --> 00:51:44.536
What would you

00:51:44.716 --> 00:51:46.456
Matt: You're taking all
my future questions.

00:51:47.156 --> 00:51:47.326
That's

00:51:47.381 --> 00:51:50.551
Rytis: We can, we can, we can
dig deeper into those questions.

00:51:51.001 --> 00:51:51.161
Yeah.

00:51:51.161 --> 00:51:56.211
But the, the podcasts and, and, and
like this public presence of, uh, of

00:51:56.211 --> 00:52:00.381
myself as a co founder and CEO of this
organization, it's, it's really like

00:52:00.381 --> 00:52:02.651
supporting a function, I would say.

00:52:02.861 --> 00:52:05.861
And some, some time ago, like, you
know, our marketing team, we raised

00:52:05.901 --> 00:52:10.371
this issue for the marketing team that,
uh, we have a lack of brand awareness.

00:52:10.931 --> 00:52:13.571
And then we came with a plan that it is,

00:52:13.576 --> 00:52:13.936
Matt: Yeah.

00:52:14.601 --> 00:52:17.241
Rytis: we will sell you, you
know, you have to be present.

00:52:17.511 --> 00:52:21.201
Matt: yeah, it's funny because there's
a lot, uh, there's a lot of stuff I

00:52:21.201 --> 00:52:25.931
want to unpack their number one, you
know, it's funny to me, not funny,

00:52:25.931 --> 00:52:30.931
but it's, it's interesting to hear you
because I'm, I'm the same way, uh, you

00:52:30.931 --> 00:52:34.031
know, Hey, we've been in this space for
10 years, but we still feel startup.

00:52:34.656 --> 00:52:37.826
Like most startups are like,
yeah, man, six months, one year.

00:52:37.826 --> 00:52:41.246
And we're already thinking like
we're, we're something else, right?

00:52:41.246 --> 00:52:44.146
Where this mega corp or we're
not thinking startup mode.

00:52:44.146 --> 00:52:47.096
And there's like all these, uh, like
middle management comes in all these

00:52:47.096 --> 00:52:48.036
logistics, et cetera, et cetera.

00:52:48.036 --> 00:52:53.876
But it's, it's great to hear you say we're
a decade in, we're still thinking startup.

00:52:54.196 --> 00:52:57.186
Because generally you probably think
that because you're bootstrapped, right?

00:52:57.186 --> 00:53:01.266
And you don't have sort of this
outside capital coming in and

00:53:01.276 --> 00:53:03.076
it's a totally different mindset.

00:53:03.496 --> 00:53:08.626
I think that's a mindset that a lot of
folks in the WordPress space, uh, try it.

00:53:08.626 --> 00:53:10.906
Like they're thinking, yeah, it's
only going to be a couple of years.

00:53:10.906 --> 00:53:11.756
And then I'm out, right?

00:53:11.776 --> 00:53:12.886
Like I'm out of this.

00:53:13.136 --> 00:53:14.446
I'm no longer the startup mode.

00:53:14.456 --> 00:53:17.536
No, this is something that when you're
not taking that outside capital,

00:53:17.696 --> 00:53:18.956
you're living and breathing this stuff.

00:53:18.956 --> 00:53:22.776
And probably every day you, like you said,
we're still trying to get our name out.

00:53:22.936 --> 00:53:24.496
Like we want people to know about us.

00:53:24.731 --> 00:53:28.851
And you've been hundreds of podcasts and
you're like, you still feel that way.

00:53:28.851 --> 00:53:31.251
So I don't really have a direct
question there, but I, you know,

00:53:31.251 --> 00:53:34.011
I applaud you for feeling like,
yeah, like I'm still out there.

00:53:34.011 --> 00:53:34.731
I'm still working.

00:53:35.001 --> 00:53:36.281
I'm still making this thing happen.

00:53:36.281 --> 00:53:38.891
And a lot of people think it's just
going to go away after a couple of years.

00:53:38.901 --> 00:53:39.391
It doesn't.

00:53:40.081 --> 00:53:42.761
And even if you took money in, you'd
probably feel that you probably feel

00:53:42.761 --> 00:53:46.621
the same way times 10, uh, you know,
of that feeling of trying to perform,

00:53:46.936 --> 00:53:49.906
Rytis: And, and, you know, I think
it's, it's like on top of that, what I

00:53:49.906 --> 00:53:51.686
completely agree to everything you said.

00:53:51.696 --> 00:53:55.176
And, uh, and I think it's just
like a, your personal engagement,

00:53:55.186 --> 00:53:56.096
which is very important.

00:53:56.246 --> 00:54:01.426
It doesn't matter if you took a venture
or private equity funding can maybe later

00:54:01.426 --> 00:54:03.156
stages, et cetera, or you're a bootstrap.

00:54:03.156 --> 00:54:06.086
But basically how much of a
personal involvement do you have?

00:54:06.086 --> 00:54:08.886
How much skin of the game
do you have in your company?

00:54:08.886 --> 00:54:09.116
Yeah.

00:54:09.116 --> 00:54:14.491
So, uh, uh, There are some startups,
especially like later stage that they have

00:54:14.491 --> 00:54:19.891
been, uh, sold, practically sold to, to
like PEs and there are professional CEOs

00:54:19.911 --> 00:54:21.681
that being hired and not, not founders.

00:54:21.681 --> 00:54:25.141
So they are, uh, from my point of
view, they are a bit more relaxed

00:54:25.161 --> 00:54:30.371
and then that's when the company
starts to become the corporation.

00:54:30.796 --> 00:54:32.646
Uh, not by the best mean of it.

00:54:33.056 --> 00:54:35.936
Uh, and yeah, a lot of bureaucracy,
a lot of middle management,

00:54:35.936 --> 00:54:37.716
et cetera, comes into play.

00:54:37.756 --> 00:54:40.956
Um, and yeah, so I think it's
still kind of about the mindset.

00:54:40.956 --> 00:54:42.606
It's very important to keep this mindset.

00:54:42.606 --> 00:54:48.116
So, and two very important details
here are first is still ambition to

00:54:48.116 --> 00:54:50.936
grow quite fast, the, to conquer.

00:54:51.301 --> 00:54:54.791
Uh, other areas where you have
not been present, et cetera.

00:54:55.171 --> 00:55:00.371
And the second is about, uh, keeping
you as lean as possible and then very

00:55:00.521 --> 00:55:04.341
efficient and very lean organization,
et cetera, and not building too much of

00:55:04.531 --> 00:55:05.961
a hierarchy in the company, et cetera.

00:55:05.971 --> 00:55:09.461
So I think it's, it's just,
and if you are lean enough.

00:55:09.476 --> 00:55:13.626
that that means that you are fast
usually to make decisions, to make some

00:55:13.656 --> 00:55:17.766
turnarounds if they are needed because
they are needed in any organization

00:55:18.436 --> 00:55:19.766
and any business that you do.

00:55:19.766 --> 00:55:24.806
Sometimes what you did like last year
could not work this year anymore,

00:55:25.246 --> 00:55:29.766
uh, and you have to, to, to, to make
a shift, you know, and, uh, how, how

00:55:29.766 --> 00:55:33.636
fast and how flexible and how adaptable
are you in, in those situations.

00:55:33.646 --> 00:55:35.386
So I think that's, that's one of that's.

00:55:35.531 --> 00:55:40.301
Those are other indications that you still
run and operate and think as a startup.

00:55:40.301 --> 00:55:42.761
Doesn't matter of the
age, uh, of organization,

00:55:43.591 --> 00:55:46.641
Matt: do you remember back when
you were running your digital

00:55:46.641 --> 00:55:48.671
agency and servicing customers?

00:55:49.426 --> 00:55:53.306
When you were a younger entrepreneur,
uh, do you remember the days or did

00:55:53.306 --> 00:55:57.426
you ever have the days where you're
like, yeah, product sass software.

00:55:57.426 --> 00:55:58.176
I need to be there.

00:55:58.176 --> 00:55:58.906
I want to get there.

00:55:58.906 --> 00:56:00.236
It's going to be this easy ride.

00:56:00.236 --> 00:56:02.816
I can't wait to pick the color
Porsche that I'm going to purchase.

00:56:02.846 --> 00:56:06.086
Like, do you remember those days
where you maybe thought it was

00:56:06.086 --> 00:56:09.796
going to be instantaneous success
or everything would be great, but

00:56:10.496 --> 00:56:11.536
not to put you in a bad position.

00:56:11.586 --> 00:56:14.196
But like 10 years later, you're like, I'm
still here growing this business, man.

00:56:14.196 --> 00:56:16.186
Like I thought it was going
to be done like six years ago.

00:56:16.386 --> 00:56:18.286
Did you ever have that
thought back in the day?

00:56:18.671 --> 00:56:21.631
Rytis: I still don't have
Porsche or Ferrari, so.

00:56:22.331 --> 00:56:26.561
And you know, there was a funny
situation that, uh, um, we kind of like

00:56:26.561 --> 00:56:29.851
reviewed our pricing and for some of our
customers, it decreased a little bit.

00:56:29.851 --> 00:56:34.951
And one, one, uh, unhappy customer just
replied to our, um, announcement email

00:56:35.331 --> 00:56:37.411
that, uh, I, I wish you all your success.

00:56:37.441 --> 00:56:43.541
CEO will buy a new Lambo for
this, so, so I did not do that.

00:56:44.371 --> 00:56:48.581
Uh, but, but yeah, in general, in
general, um, of course it's, it's, Bill

00:56:48.581 --> 00:56:54.031
Gates, uh, once said, and I really love
quoting this, that, uh, people usually

00:56:54.081 --> 00:56:57.751
overestimate what they can achieve
in one year, but they underestimate

00:56:57.781 --> 00:56:59.241
what they can achieve in 10 years.

00:56:59.831 --> 00:57:02.261
Uh, so I think it's a really
applicable to any startup and to

00:57:02.261 --> 00:57:04.331
OmniSend as well that, uh, even.

00:57:05.031 --> 00:57:08.801
We look back, like we, we use
OKRs as a planning methodology.

00:57:08.811 --> 00:57:11.441
So each quarter we review it.

00:57:11.791 --> 00:57:17.341
Sometimes we succeed, more often I would
say we fail with those plans, et cetera.

00:57:17.341 --> 00:57:19.611
And then the numbers and
metrics are looking red.

00:57:20.121 --> 00:57:24.631
But then you look back a little bit
retrospectively, like for 12 months,

00:57:24.631 --> 00:57:30.876
months back at least or Three years, five
years, 10 years from 10 years perspective.

00:57:30.876 --> 00:57:33.226
So like the achievements are just amazing.

00:57:33.726 --> 00:57:36.426
And the journey you, you,
you made is, is amazing.

00:57:36.426 --> 00:57:41.546
So, so back in the days, really
SARS was something that we were keen

00:57:41.546 --> 00:57:45.426
on building because myself and my
co founder, we are from Lithuania.

00:57:45.766 --> 00:57:49.926
And then the vast majority of
OmniSend is, uh, team is based here.

00:57:50.316 --> 00:57:51.496
We do have remote colleagues.

00:57:51.496 --> 00:57:56.886
We do have 20, like five ish people in
the United States as a vast majority of

00:57:56.886 --> 00:57:58.456
our customers are in the United States.

00:57:58.926 --> 00:58:01.916
We do have in the UK and, and,
and remote colleagues, et cetera.

00:58:01.946 --> 00:58:05.916
But, um, but still, so being
kind of like, uh, from.

00:58:06.286 --> 00:58:10.666
a country with a small market,
uh, basically you had two options.

00:58:10.666 --> 00:58:13.266
I've ended, this is running
a digital marketing agency.

00:58:13.266 --> 00:58:15.986
It's, it's all about like
selling your, your hours.

00:58:15.986 --> 00:58:18.406
And this is not scalable too much.

00:58:18.476 --> 00:58:20.686
It's scalable to some
extent, but no, not too much.

00:58:20.686 --> 00:58:25.466
So kind of building a SaaS was always,
uh, I mean, not always, but there was

00:58:25.466 --> 00:58:27.406
a desire to build a potentially a SaaS.

00:58:27.406 --> 00:58:30.156
So that seemed to be a bit
easier business or at least more

00:58:30.156 --> 00:58:31.976
predictable as you do not have to.

00:58:32.676 --> 00:58:35.476
to fight for the same customer
again and again and again.

00:58:35.486 --> 00:58:38.596
I mean, yeah, of course you have
to, you have to always deliver the

00:58:38.596 --> 00:58:43.186
value for our customers as we call
ourselves not bootstrap, but customer

00:58:43.186 --> 00:58:47.056
funded organization, because this is
our customers who make a decision.

00:58:47.056 --> 00:58:48.536
We don't have any long term contracts.

00:58:48.536 --> 00:58:48.666
Yeah.

00:58:48.666 --> 00:58:51.066
So this is our customer who
make a decision each month.

00:58:51.096 --> 00:58:53.936
If they believe that Omniscient
will create value in the

00:58:54.006 --> 00:58:55.986
coming months, month for them.

00:58:56.006 --> 00:58:58.646
And that's why we pay us in advance for.

00:58:58.801 --> 00:58:59.521
At least one month.

00:59:00.011 --> 00:59:05.051
And, uh, yeah, so sauce was kind of
like, uh, uh, compelling business

00:59:05.051 --> 00:59:08.671
idea and, uh, and another reason
that you can build it globally.

00:59:09.111 --> 00:59:12.641
And, uh, that doesn't matter because
it's, it's, it's a product and

00:59:12.641 --> 00:59:13.691
doesn't matter where you're based.

00:59:13.691 --> 00:59:16.191
Doesn't matter how funny your accent is.

00:59:16.741 --> 00:59:20.471
Uh, that's after all those like
small things, uh, doesn't matter

00:59:20.501 --> 00:59:24.731
that much in comparison to selling,
let's say, uh, human hours and,

00:59:24.741 --> 00:59:26.461
and, and professional services.

00:59:27.061 --> 00:59:30.601
Uh, but did we believe that
it's going to be a easy success?

00:59:30.941 --> 00:59:32.151
I wouldn't say so.

00:59:32.171 --> 00:59:35.591
And you know, look, it took us two
years to start earning something

00:59:35.846 --> 00:59:36.806
Matt: yeah, yeah,

00:59:37.131 --> 00:59:40.481
Rytis: after the product
launched to the first money.

00:59:41.041 --> 00:59:44.161
The US two years and we saw
kind of a good reaction.

00:59:44.161 --> 00:59:47.581
Customers are installing, but nobody's
willing to pay for our service.

00:59:47.706 --> 00:59:48.126
Mm-Hmm.

00:59:48.491 --> 00:59:52.636
Matt: I, I, I ran, just so you, for
your context, I ran a digital agent,

00:59:52.636 --> 00:59:55.156
a WordPress agency, ran it with
my father for a decade, 10 years.

00:59:55.156 --> 00:59:59.806
We started in 2000, end of
2007 ish into 2008 is when we

00:59:59.806 --> 01:00:01.011
started the, the organization.

01:00:01.631 --> 01:00:01.851
Um.

01:00:02.741 --> 01:00:05.581
So anyway, I ran that for 10 years,
but I remember like just getting

01:00:05.581 --> 01:00:09.591
into the WordPress space and being
like, Hey, this customer stuff, this

01:00:09.651 --> 01:00:12.931
agency stuff, like you're one check
away from going bankrupt, right?

01:00:12.931 --> 01:00:15.181
If project doesn't pay you,
they forget to pay you.

01:00:15.181 --> 01:00:16.601
You're, you're just like waiting for this.

01:00:17.031 --> 01:00:19.961
Um, you know, this is early
on in, in my digital career.

01:00:20.691 --> 01:00:22.501
And I saw word, I was
in the WordPress space.

01:00:22.501 --> 01:00:24.461
We're building WordPress websites.

01:00:24.461 --> 01:00:29.241
And I was like, plugins,
themes, this is the way to go.

01:00:29.241 --> 01:00:33.421
I want to build this product
because surely this is easier

01:00:33.921 --> 01:00:37.621
than, you know, picking a color
blue for somebody's website.

01:00:37.781 --> 01:00:39.991
And they're just like going back and
forth like, I don't really like that.

01:00:40.131 --> 01:00:41.701
Oh, we brought this to the board.

01:00:41.851 --> 01:00:43.121
They don't like this color.

01:00:43.121 --> 01:00:44.051
And it's just like, Oh God.

01:00:44.481 --> 01:00:44.891
Um.

01:00:45.056 --> 01:00:49.876
But early on, I was a super fan of Mixergy
and, and you were on the show in 2019.

01:00:50.156 --> 01:00:54.096
You had stated that, uh, you were
doing about 6 million ARR back then.

01:00:54.446 --> 01:00:58.516
And I remember just being enamored
with the guests that Andrew was

01:00:58.526 --> 01:01:01.886
bringing on being like, yeah, like
I want to build, I want to get into

01:01:01.886 --> 01:01:05.476
the software space because this
does seem like the promised land.

01:01:05.966 --> 01:01:07.436
Um, but certainly not easy.

01:01:07.536 --> 01:01:10.646
Uh, and I learned, and I learned
my lessons there, uh, as well,

01:01:10.646 --> 01:01:11.896
starting product companies.

01:01:12.636 --> 01:01:13.846
Andrew said something, go ahead.

01:01:13.926 --> 01:01:14.116
Yep.

01:01:14.336 --> 01:01:16.786
Rytis: Yeah, but I think it's kind
of like to add to what you said, I

01:01:16.806 --> 01:01:19.806
think is running an agency and maybe
some of the listeners who are running

01:01:19.806 --> 01:01:23.986
agencies now maybe struggle with that
and then dreaming about or thinking

01:01:23.996 --> 01:01:28.266
about, about like launching their own
products, plugins, themes, et cetera.

01:01:28.906 --> 01:01:33.756
I think still running an agency is
a very, very good school and lessons

01:01:33.756 --> 01:01:37.516
that you have to learn because
this is where you are actually.

01:01:38.216 --> 01:01:42.756
Uh, being forced, probably that's the
right word, agency job force is used

01:01:42.766 --> 01:01:44.936
to always reflect to customer's needs.

01:01:45.546 --> 01:01:50.616
And of course, once you start building
like a plugin, so in our case, OmniSend

01:01:50.616 --> 01:01:53.676
as a SaaS, et cetera, it's, it's,
it's a bit tricky that you should

01:01:53.676 --> 01:01:57.456
not fulfill all, all of your customer
requests and all of your customer needs.

01:01:57.476 --> 01:02:01.376
Because if you would, because you
have tens of thousands of maybe

01:02:01.376 --> 01:02:03.096
hundreds of thousands of customers.

01:02:03.576 --> 01:02:05.916
Uh, you cannot, uh,
fulfill all of their needs.

01:02:05.926 --> 01:02:09.326
So you have to start group to start
building and to start understanding

01:02:09.326 --> 01:02:10.706
what is actually behind it.

01:02:10.956 --> 01:02:13.006
Of course, you get rid of
all this bullshit that you

01:02:13.006 --> 01:02:14.196
mentioned about, Oh, okay.

01:02:14.206 --> 01:02:15.336
Make my logo bigger.

01:02:15.796 --> 01:02:20.196
There is that iconic video
about joke, make my logo bigger.

01:02:20.406 --> 01:02:20.766
Oh yeah.

01:02:20.766 --> 01:02:22.896
Just the, the, the, the,
the tone of the blue.

01:02:22.896 --> 01:02:23.811
I don't like, yeah.

01:02:23.811 --> 01:02:24.681
Completely agree.

01:02:24.681 --> 01:02:29.001
I've been bad and bad and I believe
a lot of listeners, uh, maybe in, in

01:02:29.001 --> 01:02:30.981
such situations on, on the daily basis.

01:02:31.011 --> 01:02:37.311
But, but in general, it really puts
customer centricity in, into your DNA,

01:02:38.066 --> 01:02:38.326
Matt: Yeah.

01:02:38.391 --> 01:02:39.701
Rytis: uh, yeah.

01:02:39.701 --> 01:02:42.701
So I think it's, it's a, it's a very
good, good, good, good lesson to,

01:02:42.701 --> 01:02:44.681
to, to go through a very good school

01:02:45.216 --> 01:02:49.906
Matt: So back in 2019, when you were
on the show with, with Andrew, uh,

01:02:49.936 --> 01:02:54.236
at Mixergy, he opens up with, guys,
this is a quote from the transcript.

01:02:54.346 --> 01:02:57.406
I probably listened to this episode
too, uh, back in the day, but he

01:02:57.406 --> 01:03:00.736
opens up with, guys, how many freaking
email marketing companies are out

01:03:00.736 --> 01:03:03.056
there, right, as his opening question.

01:03:03.416 --> 01:03:07.686
And this is a testament there, like,
obviously MailChimp was back, was

01:03:07.696 --> 01:03:09.536
out in 2019, it wasn't that long ago.

01:03:09.546 --> 01:03:12.066
So, um, There was a lot of competition.

01:03:12.066 --> 01:03:13.826
There still is a lot of competition.

01:03:14.156 --> 01:03:14.576
Rytis: Mm-Hmm.

01:03:14.856 --> 01:03:18.476
Matt: You said if we're, if we're
not building it for everyone, right?

01:03:18.476 --> 01:03:21.016
Cause everyone would come to you and say,
I want this thing that MailChimp has.

01:03:21.016 --> 01:03:25.196
I want this thing that I don't know,
uh, another competitor might have.

01:03:25.466 --> 01:03:30.956
And you're saying, no, we're focusing on
let's say e commerce connections only.

01:03:31.216 --> 01:03:35.276
First thing I see when I log into
OmniSend is connect your store.

01:03:35.976 --> 01:03:39.676
Immediately putting somebody into the
mode of, Oh, I need to, I probably

01:03:39.676 --> 01:03:43.336
need to be selling something to get
the most value out of Omni send.

01:03:43.556 --> 01:03:48.086
It's not, I want to start an email
newsletter for my soccer club or my

01:03:48.086 --> 01:03:52.696
football club, as you may refer to it
as, um, it's not that it's something

01:03:52.746 --> 01:03:55.356
specific, hyper specific for customers.

01:03:56.176 --> 01:03:58.056
Did you know that right out of the gate?

01:03:58.166 --> 01:04:00.416
Did you go specifically into e commerce?

01:04:00.776 --> 01:04:02.516
How come you made that decision so early?

01:04:02.521 --> 01:04:02.741
Rytis: Yeah.

01:04:02.741 --> 01:04:03.701
So a few assumptions.

01:04:03.701 --> 01:04:04.101
So, yeah.

01:04:04.101 --> 01:04:07.421
So you're referring to, to Andrew
and Mixergy podcast, so you, we

01:04:07.421 --> 01:04:10.091
were at, uh, like 6 million ARR.

01:04:10.101 --> 01:04:14.631
So currently we're a bit more than 51.

01:04:15.421 --> 01:04:18.901
So we grew quite, uh, quite some,

01:04:19.611 --> 01:04:20.271
Matt: Considerably.

01:04:20.966 --> 01:04:22.916
Rytis: Yeah, in that area.

01:04:22.926 --> 01:04:26.686
And yeah, and I think it's kind of like
this customer centricity and the focus is,

01:04:26.706 --> 01:04:29.296
is one of the things that helped us a lot.

01:04:29.296 --> 01:04:32.846
And it's one of the first assumptions
when we started building the product, they

01:04:32.846 --> 01:04:35.756
get like referring to those agency days.

01:04:35.766 --> 01:04:38.586
So some of our customers
were selling online.

01:04:39.031 --> 01:04:43.791
Among all the variety of customers
we're serving and we kind of identify

01:04:43.851 --> 01:04:47.541
that there were two main assumptions
So first one is that those who sell

01:04:47.541 --> 01:04:52.431
online we basically have entire customer
journey happening online That's why

01:04:52.431 --> 01:04:56.701
you have more breadcrumbs You have more
touch points happening online with your

01:04:56.721 --> 01:05:01.711
customer and this more data exchange is
happening That's why you can automate

01:05:02.141 --> 01:05:05.641
More of your marketing activities, and
that's why your marketing messages could

01:05:05.651 --> 01:05:07.211
be more relevant for your customers.

01:05:07.591 --> 01:05:12.371
And this basically kind of like our
vision up until today is really to make

01:05:12.371 --> 01:05:18.001
marketing relevant as organization as
a tool and Like sending more automated

01:05:18.341 --> 01:05:22.581
emails or SMS messages or whatever push
notifications those free channels that we

01:05:22.601 --> 01:05:28.371
support now With a very relevant content
is what really embodies our vision and

01:05:28.581 --> 01:05:32.921
that's what makes us really happy That's
each year there are more and more Uh,

01:05:32.951 --> 01:05:37.211
automated messages send in comparison
to bulk emails, and it really drives

01:05:37.211 --> 01:05:39.191
more and more revenue for our customers.

01:05:39.621 --> 01:05:43.721
So that was kind of first assumption that
digital those who sell online, we have

01:05:43.861 --> 01:05:47.651
this, uh, unfair advantage in comparison
to soccer clubs, as you mentioned.

01:05:48.471 --> 01:05:52.531
And the second was second assumption
was that e commerce in general will

01:05:52.541 --> 01:05:57.431
be growing because once we launched
the ones we launched the in the u.

01:05:57.431 --> 01:05:57.891
s.

01:05:58.151 --> 01:06:05.701
Uh, like Around 16 percent of all
retail was happening online on only 16%.

01:06:05.711 --> 01:06:09.551
Now it's like 21, 20, like 4%.

01:06:09.551 --> 01:06:11.781
It's something COVID accelerated a lot.

01:06:11.781 --> 01:06:16.341
So it's, it's growing, but still it's kind
of one fourth or maybe one fifth of all.

01:06:16.386 --> 01:06:17.436
entire retail.

01:06:18.026 --> 01:06:21.626
So that's what did not change with
OmniSense since the very first day.

01:06:21.626 --> 01:06:25.436
So, uh, and again, I mean,
sometimes people ask, Oh, I like

01:06:25.436 --> 01:06:27.216
super smart or are you lucky?

01:06:27.496 --> 01:06:28.706
I think it's a mix of both.

01:06:29.406 --> 01:06:30.246
I mean, not definitely

01:06:30.541 --> 01:06:31.071
Matt: You're smart.

01:06:31.081 --> 01:06:33.181
I've listened to a lot
of hours of you talking.

01:06:33.181 --> 01:06:39.081
I

01:06:39.186 --> 01:06:41.476
Rytis: great to be here
and then to talk with you.

01:06:41.486 --> 01:06:44.126
Well, you have a lot of
this contextual questions.

01:06:44.126 --> 01:06:49.136
So, uh, So what I think it was like very
important that our assumptions could

01:06:49.716 --> 01:06:51.296
could prove right or could prove wrong.

01:06:51.996 --> 01:06:54.096
They proved to be right, which is great.

01:06:54.096 --> 01:06:54.296
Yeah.

01:06:54.296 --> 01:06:59.976
So basically as focusing in the niche and
those who's for like to focus product for

01:06:59.976 --> 01:07:04.616
those who sell online, actually what made
us unique in comparison to male chimps of

01:07:04.616 --> 01:07:09.616
the world, those generic email service or
marketing automation service providers.

01:07:10.066 --> 01:07:12.146
So that's what kind of
defined as in the market.

01:07:12.146 --> 01:07:13.576
And we basically focused to that.

01:07:13.596 --> 01:07:18.026
Uh, to that specific market niche,
which is big enough and fast

01:07:18.026 --> 01:07:22.256
growing enough to help us, uh,
grow as an organization as well.

01:07:23.006 --> 01:07:27.136
Um, yeah, so that was kind of like, and
this is the only thing that did not change

01:07:27.786 --> 01:07:29.806
on since the very inception of OmniCent.

01:07:29.976 --> 01:07:33.646
On the other hand, just to
add on it, the definition of e

01:07:33.666 --> 01:07:35.406
commerce by itself is changing.

01:07:36.276 --> 01:07:39.686
And if only like back in
10 years ago, there was.

01:07:40.386 --> 01:07:45.146
90 percent of e commerce was
basically selling physical goods.

01:07:45.846 --> 01:07:53.696
Now, uh, just an example, uh, like booking
a doctor appointment is e commerce.

01:07:54.396 --> 01:07:58.686
It's the same online transaction
because entire, almost entire

01:07:58.686 --> 01:08:00.286
customer journey happens online.

01:08:00.646 --> 01:08:02.986
Uh, there is a discovery phase
that is happening online.

01:08:03.016 --> 01:08:06.166
There is like social proof
collection phase, like the

01:08:06.166 --> 01:08:07.536
reviews are very important.

01:08:07.566 --> 01:08:11.376
Uh, the, the, the, the social
proof is very important, et cetera.

01:08:11.816 --> 01:08:14.486
Uh, the booking of
appointment happens online.

01:08:15.116 --> 01:08:19.966
In many cases, uh, many cases, payment
for the service happens online.

01:08:20.326 --> 01:08:22.986
And instead of just delivering the parcel.

01:08:23.221 --> 01:08:27.791
to you, or you going to the
doctor, to the barber, uh, to,

01:08:27.831 --> 01:08:29.151
to the messageur, et cetera.

01:08:29.851 --> 01:08:31.431
The only, this part is different.

01:08:31.691 --> 01:08:36.571
And then after, after, after
service journey again gets online.

01:08:36.581 --> 01:08:38.561
So you are being asked to leave a review.

01:08:38.571 --> 01:08:39.561
How did you like it?

01:08:39.571 --> 01:08:42.681
You are being reminded, maybe
it's time to, for you to visit

01:08:42.681 --> 01:08:43.951
again, et cetera, et cetera.

01:08:44.341 --> 01:08:47.991
So very recurring bookings are
happening online, recurring

01:08:48.021 --> 01:08:49.101
payments that happen online.

01:08:49.421 --> 01:08:52.301
So basically just definition
of what is online retail,

01:08:52.301 --> 01:08:53.771
what is e commerce is, is, is.

01:08:54.116 --> 01:08:57.896
Being brought in nowadays and, uh,
OmniSend is adapting to this as

01:08:57.896 --> 01:09:00.196
well, adapting to this as well.

01:09:00.616 --> 01:09:05.186
Uh, yeah, so we are currently serving
in those who run online bookings, who

01:09:05.186 --> 01:09:07.546
sell, uh, digital goods online, etc.

01:09:07.546 --> 01:09:12.446
It's not only physical, physical
stores and a lot of best practices.

01:09:12.456 --> 01:09:15.716
They are very similar on
another in those cases.

01:09:16.416 --> 01:09:18.906
Matt: want to frame a
pretty hefty question.

01:09:18.906 --> 01:09:21.726
I'll try to articulate it
as best as I possibly can.

01:09:22.086 --> 01:09:24.086
Um, we look at social media.

01:09:24.296 --> 01:09:28.396
We look at algorithms, filtering
out content, content being censored.

01:09:29.026 --> 01:09:29.456
You know.

01:09:29.996 --> 01:09:33.266
I think I and maybe a lot of
other marketers in the year,

01:09:33.296 --> 01:09:37.326
well, we're in 2024, I almost
said 2023, but we're now in 2024.

01:09:37.636 --> 01:09:41.176
People are still saying, hey,
the best line of defense for your

01:09:41.176 --> 01:09:44.386
business is still going to be
owning your content on your website.

01:09:45.221 --> 01:09:49.661
And owning an email list, because
hopefully with air quotes, when you want

01:09:49.661 --> 01:09:54.311
to send someone an email, it's going,
you're going to get that customer versus

01:09:54.311 --> 01:09:58.011
making a post on Facebook that you don't
boost or that you don't promote, right?

01:09:58.011 --> 01:10:00.961
So you have a thousand fans on
your Facebook page, you make a

01:10:00.961 --> 01:10:05.331
post, 80 of them see it, unless you
boost it, then 300 of them see it.

01:10:05.691 --> 01:10:09.671
Now I see, and this is just my theory,
I'd love for you to unpack this if you

01:10:09.671 --> 01:10:12.121
possibly can, that for you and OmniSend.

01:10:12.821 --> 01:10:14.161
It might not be about.

01:10:14.636 --> 01:10:17.476
How do we compete against
MailChimp feature to feature?

01:10:17.486 --> 01:10:20.286
How do we compete against XYZ
competitor feature to feature?

01:10:20.286 --> 01:10:22.166
This new thing in the
marketing space is good.

01:10:22.166 --> 01:10:23.036
We should go after it.

01:10:23.666 --> 01:10:29.116
I see email as my God, you've got
to deal with spam laws, governments.

01:10:29.716 --> 01:10:35.816
Deliverability, and that is a very
powerful space, you know, I'm not in the

01:10:35.816 --> 01:10:40.816
European market, but in the US market,
you think of like, uh, you know, people

01:10:40.816 --> 01:10:45.636
going to the government and, and, and,
and talking to Congress, you know, and you

01:10:45.956 --> 01:10:51.026
into it, leveraging billions of dollars
to say, you know, we're the best place.

01:10:51.626 --> 01:10:56.176
To deliver email, not these other
little competitors, and that is, that

01:10:56.176 --> 01:10:58.506
is where I think your battle is fought.

01:10:58.566 --> 01:11:00.346
Maybe not now, but maybe in the future.

01:11:01.046 --> 01:11:04.976
What, what are your thoughts on
like competition and fitting into

01:11:05.676 --> 01:11:10.146
governments and, and, and multicultural
systems that you have to span across?

01:11:10.846 --> 01:11:14.746
Rytis: So probably, at least to what I
would digest from your question, there

01:11:14.746 --> 01:11:16.846
are two, two, two different aspects here.

01:11:16.846 --> 01:11:20.166
So one is like, again, social
media or other channels.

01:11:20.516 --> 01:11:23.966
So once we start, and it's probably
a very illustrative example, once

01:11:23.966 --> 01:11:28.406
we launched Omniscient, we were
We're trying to fundraise and we

01:11:28.406 --> 01:11:32.646
are looking, going, uh, after some
VCs, et cetera, but like everybody

01:11:32.646 --> 01:11:34.676
was looking at us like, what email?

01:11:35.276 --> 01:11:35.836
Come on.

01:11:36.196 --> 01:11:40.256
I felt like, you know, I was
pitching a leather shoes innovation.

01:11:40.366 --> 01:11:41.086
Come on.

01:11:41.106 --> 01:11:42.676
It's it's it's done deal.

01:11:43.041 --> 01:11:46.431
It's like MailChimp, the rather
constant contact like giant company

01:11:46.441 --> 01:11:48.631
back in the days already, et cetera.

01:11:48.651 --> 01:11:53.931
Um, but yeah, so email, uh, proved
to be very resilient and proved

01:11:53.941 --> 01:11:58.401
to be the most effective retention
channel for anyone who sells online.

01:11:58.791 --> 01:12:05.241
So to our customer's experience, it's
kind of like 15 to 30, 35 percent of

01:12:05.241 --> 01:12:07.041
their revenues coming through email.

01:12:07.691 --> 01:12:13.631
Uh, so it's, and it's like Return
on investment is by far the best.

01:12:13.641 --> 01:12:14.641
So by far the best.

01:12:14.651 --> 01:12:19.561
So basically, yeah, uh, and owning
this, some, some, there is kind of

01:12:20.001 --> 01:12:24.971
circulating those sexy, uh, terms like
first party data, zero party data.

01:12:24.971 --> 01:12:27.611
Sometimes it's being called,
but basically it's owning the

01:12:27.611 --> 01:12:29.191
relationship with your customers.

01:12:29.701 --> 01:12:29.901
Yeah.

01:12:29.901 --> 01:12:30.891
To what, to what you're right.

01:12:30.891 --> 01:12:34.571
Because if you use like Facebook,
Instagram, Tik TOK, whatever, Amazon,

01:12:34.571 --> 01:12:38.251
if you sell through Amazon, you do not
own relationship with your customers.

01:12:38.761 --> 01:12:39.111
So I

01:12:39.156 --> 01:12:41.546
Matt: and that's my, and that's the one
thing I just want to just interject.

01:12:41.556 --> 01:12:45.866
That's the, that's the connection right
there is Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

01:12:45.906 --> 01:12:48.116
They go, Oh, you want
access to the customer?

01:12:48.651 --> 01:12:51.441
You're going to, you're going to pay
us 30 percent tax on top of that.

01:12:51.711 --> 01:12:57.461
And I see Gmail, AOL, Yahoo doing the
same thing to email Gmail, obviously

01:12:57.471 --> 01:13:00.311
much more aggressively with like
auto filtering and their things.

01:13:00.561 --> 01:13:02.131
And I see them going, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa.

01:13:02.831 --> 01:13:05.871
All these people have email and they're
getting, and they're making money off it.

01:13:05.891 --> 01:13:06.411
No, no, no, no.

01:13:06.411 --> 01:13:08.971
We're going to need to
find a way to filter this.

01:13:08.971 --> 01:13:11.901
And I, and I think this legacy
type of technology is very

01:13:11.911 --> 01:13:13.441
difficult to do that too.

01:13:13.891 --> 01:13:15.421
Try as hard as they might.

01:13:15.651 --> 01:13:17.171
I think it's still very difficult.

01:13:17.541 --> 01:13:18.001
Um,

01:13:18.081 --> 01:13:21.601
Rytis: hmm agree, and I think it's kind
of like email addresses like similar

01:13:21.601 --> 01:13:28.381
to a physical address Yeah, so when
however your Post company etc is be like

01:13:28.411 --> 01:13:32.881
charging you for the service, etc But
it's still like this is what you own and

01:13:32.891 --> 01:13:38.351
this is what you have all the freedom
to own and this is a free It's very

01:13:38.351 --> 01:13:44.386
similar to WordPress Because this is open
source in general, because like Gmail,

01:13:44.706 --> 01:13:51.886
Yahoo, uh, Microsoft, uh, et cetera,
they are just inbox service providers.

01:13:51.916 --> 01:13:54.396
They do not own the protocol by itself.

01:13:55.056 --> 01:14:01.166
And this is the key difference to, to,
Facebook, uh, to Google in general,

01:14:01.176 --> 01:14:05.816
that because of the, uh, private
protocols, they are closed ecosystems.

01:14:05.926 --> 01:14:09.796
And then email as a protocol
is ecosystem is open.

01:14:10.196 --> 01:14:10.396
Yeah.

01:14:10.396 --> 01:14:13.366
There are dominating players, which
have, because we're just kind of like

01:14:13.366 --> 01:14:15.376
similar to, to, to, to WordPress.

01:14:15.406 --> 01:14:18.806
And, but it's easy again, it's
still the, the, the ownership,

01:14:18.806 --> 01:14:22.266
it belongs to the people, um, to,
to the owner of email address.

01:14:22.846 --> 01:14:23.046
And.

01:14:23.496 --> 01:14:28.246
I would say what is very important to add
here, and I don't see any, any how those

01:14:28.246 --> 01:14:33.386
companies being able to, to, to really
monetize or to start charging for, for

01:14:33.386 --> 01:14:38.496
using any email yet with those filters,
I would say, cause like from our point

01:14:38.496 --> 01:14:42.496
of view, initially when there was an
in Europe, there was this GDPR, which

01:14:42.496 --> 01:14:49.511
came into power when 20, um, uh, uh, uh,
uh, 16, maybe ish on 2017, et cetera.

01:14:49.891 --> 01:14:55.531
And then there was a Californian act, uh,
similar to GDPR, which basically, okay,

01:14:55.531 --> 01:15:01.501
it's, it's, it's only technically, um, uh,
like, you know, applicable for California.

01:15:01.501 --> 01:15:06.091
But basically if you, if you sell
statewide national nationwide, you in

01:15:06.091 --> 01:15:08.451
the States, you have to comply with this.

01:15:09.011 --> 01:15:10.341
Uh, so basically.

01:15:11.041 --> 01:15:15.101
There was a little bit of, of scariness
here, uh, because we thought, okay,

01:15:15.241 --> 01:15:19.011
maybe it will make a negative impact,
but in opposite, I think that made

01:15:19.011 --> 01:15:22.981
a positive impact because it forced
businesses to really follow the best

01:15:22.981 --> 01:15:24.851
practices and follow the best rules.

01:15:25.271 --> 01:15:29.931
And for, for services like ours,
there is a bit less fight to fight.

01:15:30.091 --> 01:15:31.261
against the bad actors.

01:15:31.561 --> 01:15:34.001
Because, you know, there are
really, really like criminals.

01:15:34.031 --> 01:15:37.031
There are scammers, phishers, et
cetera, who try to steal the data.

01:15:37.151 --> 01:15:41.371
They understand that we do, um, uh,
bad things and they want to do that.

01:15:41.401 --> 01:15:43.311
And this is the work we do.

01:15:43.311 --> 01:15:45.291
And this is illegal and it's criminalized.

01:15:45.831 --> 01:15:50.411
And there are good practices and
there is kind of a gray zone.

01:15:50.461 --> 01:15:54.141
So there were a lot of companies
that would, okay, I mean, yeah, you

01:15:54.141 --> 01:15:55.951
know, the holiday season is coming.

01:15:55.961 --> 01:15:59.361
We have this list, which we acquired,
maybe not legal, et cetera, but okay.

01:15:59.796 --> 01:16:00.836
I'll just do once.

01:16:01.726 --> 01:16:02.516
Matt: no one will notice

01:16:03.196 --> 01:16:06.996
Rytis: Yeah, no one noticed or maybe
at least I will get like a small fine,

01:16:07.006 --> 01:16:08.736
you know, for first thing, et cetera.

01:16:08.736 --> 01:16:10.806
So that's worth risking.

01:16:11.506 --> 01:16:15.286
All those, all those regulations
by maybe implied like by the

01:16:15.286 --> 01:16:19.286
governments, they just regulated this
and there were, there are way fewer.

01:16:19.731 --> 01:16:22.171
People are businesses who
are in this gray zone.

01:16:22.911 --> 01:16:27.371
So I think it's kind of in general that
that is a positive thing for, uh, for

01:16:27.381 --> 01:16:32.231
the consumer because they are less spam
because your inbox looks way better now.

01:16:32.341 --> 01:16:36.471
And even kind of like the Gmail
you refer to, even though they have

01:16:36.491 --> 01:16:39.021
this promotion tab, but that's okay.

01:16:39.131 --> 01:16:44.501
If you send a promotional messages,
they end up in promotional tab and a

01:16:44.501 --> 01:16:47.051
lot of people open promotional tabs.

01:16:47.691 --> 01:16:50.821
and they read those emails
and they buy and that's okay.

01:16:50.911 --> 01:16:55.381
And you know, and sometimes us marketers,
because we subscribe so much because of

01:16:55.391 --> 01:17:00.231
a professional interest, we think that
everybody subscribes as crazy as we do.

01:17:00.471 --> 01:17:03.756
But if you are a doctor, if you are
a pharma, If you're a policeman, you

01:17:03.756 --> 01:17:07.686
don't subscribe to every newsletter, you
subscribe to the few, which you really

01:17:07.686 --> 01:17:11.526
trust those brands, which you wait for
those emails to come in and you buy

01:17:11.536 --> 01:17:13.516
from, from, from, from those emails.

01:17:13.846 --> 01:17:17.116
So, you know, we should not, sometimes
if we're marketers, we should not

01:17:17.116 --> 01:17:20.596
apply, uh, our behavior to all of them.

01:17:20.666 --> 01:17:24.186
Matt: because we ruin everything us
marketers, you know, we just we're

01:17:24.426 --> 01:17:29.126
the ones that ruin it all When did you
make the when did you open your eyes?

01:17:29.566 --> 01:17:36.976
To WordPress, Shopify for, for years, if
I again, go back, uh, let's say pre COVID

01:17:37.436 --> 01:17:42.476
Shopify was coming, you know, hit after
hit, I mean, uh, platform was improving,

01:17:43.026 --> 01:17:49.176
uh, you know, back when Gutenberg was
first released, we had a mass exodus

01:17:49.176 --> 01:17:52.796
of people who are like Gutenberg, not
for me, like developers and agencies

01:17:52.796 --> 01:17:56.721
like Gutenberg, not for me, don't want
to be with WordPress through this ride.

01:17:57.361 --> 01:17:59.491
Uh, I'm going to transition to Shopify.

01:17:59.531 --> 01:18:03.031
I've have interviewed folks that
ran shop of super successful

01:18:03.031 --> 01:18:04.411
Shopify agencies over the years.

01:18:05.171 --> 01:18:09.481
And just do it, you know, hit after
hit doing amazing things, but at the

01:18:09.481 --> 01:18:15.491
same time, WordPress huge juggernaut,
massive space, when did you turn your

01:18:15.491 --> 01:18:19.501
attention to WordPress being so deeply
rooted in the Shopify space starting off?

01:18:20.201 --> 01:18:24.511
Rytis: So, uh, there were two, I
would say, maybe not the high moments.

01:18:24.551 --> 01:18:25.491
That was a journey.

01:18:25.561 --> 01:18:28.841
So we had the WooCommerce.

01:18:28.921 --> 01:18:32.361
Yeah, specifically, not like
general WordPress, but WooCommerce

01:18:32.361 --> 01:18:36.711
integrations, integration and
Magento integration back in the day.

01:18:36.711 --> 01:18:40.671
So we launched nine integrations at
the very beginning of the company.

01:18:41.371 --> 01:18:45.001
I'm sorry to two of them proved to
grow just way faster organically.

01:18:45.001 --> 01:18:50.101
That was Shopify and big commerce,
which should probably the name you

01:18:50.111 --> 01:18:52.741
do not hear too much nowadays about.

01:18:52.821 --> 01:18:55.291
And at that time they were equal.

01:18:55.291 --> 01:18:57.221
I had to have competition with Shopify.

01:18:57.271 --> 01:19:02.211
They were equal by size by the customer
count, et cetera, like 10 years ago, but

01:19:02.211 --> 01:19:03.871
then Shopify took off, really took off.

01:19:03.871 --> 01:19:08.421
And to be honest, like for three
years, even maybe three pre COVID.

01:19:08.471 --> 01:19:08.681
Yeah.

01:19:08.681 --> 01:19:13.001
So we made a really good reference
to the, to the time, uh, perspective.

01:19:13.001 --> 01:19:18.646
So I would say, I really believe
Shopify is going to a global dominance

01:19:18.676 --> 01:19:22.606
like natural monopoly because they
were successful as I said, they, they,

01:19:22.616 --> 01:19:23.936
they really build a great product.

01:19:23.946 --> 01:19:27.356
They managed to support, they
build a great ecosystem and, and,

01:19:27.356 --> 01:19:34.226
uh, uh, agencies, developers like,
uh, plugins, SaaS services that,

01:19:34.236 --> 01:19:38.106
that, uh, enhance Shopify core
core functionality, et cetera.

01:19:38.806 --> 01:19:44.376
Uh, but I think that's to where we already
touched about having this still startup

01:19:44.376 --> 01:19:46.896
mentality or becoming a corporation.

01:19:47.076 --> 01:19:50.826
So I think just Shopify became a
corporation and they start playing

01:19:50.826 --> 01:19:54.496
some political games and uh, and then
even the kind of in our space, there

01:19:54.496 --> 01:20:00.411
is a, I have a preferred provider,
uh, which apparently, uh, them IPO

01:20:00.411 --> 01:20:05.021
ing showed that Shopify owns a quite
significant stake in the provider game.

01:20:05.031 --> 01:20:09.931
So they kind of just threw in their
promise, they, they, they, they kind of

01:20:09.941 --> 01:20:14.471
build their, from my point of view, they
build their ecosystem on the promise to

01:20:14.471 --> 01:20:18.671
always be open and always be the best
and the most friendly for the ecosystem.

01:20:18.991 --> 01:20:20.471
And for quite a while they were.

01:20:21.171 --> 01:20:24.251
Uh, but then they start just playing
some political games, et cetera.

01:20:24.311 --> 01:20:29.351
And again, uh, this is still great
ecosystem to be, uh, I, I don't blame

01:20:29.351 --> 01:20:35.801
them too much, but, uh, but, uh, but yeah,
now we see, I don't believe that they

01:20:35.801 --> 01:20:37.591
are going to global dominance anymore.

01:20:37.771 --> 01:20:41.051
Uh, they will remain a big, uh, provider.

01:20:41.306 --> 01:20:45.526
For, for those run e commerce businesses,
but we see that we struggle a lot

01:20:45.716 --> 01:20:47.936
outside, uh, English speaking markets.

01:20:48.276 --> 01:20:53.146
So us, UK, Australia, very important
markets for them, but they struggled to go

01:20:53.176 --> 01:20:55.336
outside those markets for whatever reason.

01:20:55.336 --> 01:20:59.196
I don't have a very clear explanation
and in opposite, uh, and it

01:20:59.246 --> 01:21:00.526
shows kind of all the trends.

01:21:00.526 --> 01:21:00.706
Yeah.

01:21:00.956 --> 01:21:04.336
There was an exodus you mentioned
from, from other platforms, including

01:21:04.336 --> 01:21:08.386
WordPress, including WooCommerce,
uh, to Shopify, but But, uh, but what

01:21:08.386 --> 01:21:09.956
we see now, it's stopped already.

01:21:09.966 --> 01:21:13.736
And in opposite, we see that some
of the customers are getting back.

01:21:13.736 --> 01:21:17.366
Some agencies are getting back, more and
more agencies are developing both now

01:21:17.366 --> 01:21:19.626
for WordPress and Shopify, et cetera.

01:21:19.626 --> 01:21:23.206
And it's for the customers to choose, or
maybe they just understood that, you know,

01:21:23.206 --> 01:21:25.256
there is no one size fits all solution.

01:21:25.266 --> 01:21:28.906
And in different cases, there are
sometimes WordPress is better,

01:21:28.936 --> 01:21:30.606
sometimes Shopify is better, et cetera.

01:21:31.286 --> 01:21:33.726
Um, yeah, so that's kind of like.

01:21:34.036 --> 01:21:36.976
The, the rational
calculation, uh, that we made.

01:21:37.056 --> 01:21:37.516
Yeah.

01:21:38.176 --> 01:21:42.216
But there was a different, uh,
so some, some, some years ago we

01:21:42.216 --> 01:21:45.846
kind of relaunched, maybe three
years ago, we relaunched our

01:21:45.886 --> 01:21:50.826
WooCommerce integration without,
uh, any major expectations for that.

01:21:51.546 --> 01:21:55.256
And we just start seeing initial
like traction, quite good traction,

01:21:55.256 --> 01:21:59.036
organic traction, not, not, not
accelerated, not stimulated without

01:21:59.156 --> 01:22:01.156
any our go to market activities.

01:22:01.726 --> 01:22:05.456
And, uh, we saw that, uh,
like customer lifetime value.

01:22:05.986 --> 01:22:06.546
It's great.

01:22:06.546 --> 01:22:10.796
Then basically we proved ourselves and our
customers, we can create value as much as

01:22:10.796 --> 01:22:12.996
we do for, let's say, Shopify customers.

01:22:13.696 --> 01:22:18.116
Uh, and this is the, the, the, I
think this is the, the most important

01:22:18.126 --> 01:22:22.166
thing for any service provider,
either it's US SaaS or agency, et

01:22:22.166 --> 01:22:25.506
cetera, or plugin maker or a designer.

01:22:25.536 --> 01:22:28.926
So if you create enough
value for the customers.

01:22:29.536 --> 01:22:32.536
If you do so, of course you will
find more customers, like, like

01:22:32.536 --> 01:22:35.566
the ones that you already proved
yourself and your customers,

01:22:35.566 --> 01:22:37.006
that you are a valuable solution.

01:22:37.486 --> 01:22:41.476
So this is kind of the way we turn
to, to, to this tipping point.

01:22:41.476 --> 01:22:41.836
But okay.

01:22:41.841 --> 01:22:43.726
This is the fastest
growing ecosystem for us.

01:22:43.726 --> 01:22:44.476
Organically.

01:22:44.481 --> 01:22:47.116
We, we see that there is
a good retention rate.

01:22:47.116 --> 01:22:50.996
Customers are happy, they leave
good reviews for us, they stay with

01:22:50.996 --> 01:22:53.216
us for, for quite long, et cetera.

01:22:53.216 --> 01:22:57.206
And of course we made a decision that, uh,
we should invest more into this ecosystem.

01:22:58.071 --> 01:23:01.801
And, uh, and of course, you know,
uh, the, in general, the playbook

01:23:01.801 --> 01:23:03.391
is different than in Shopify.

01:23:03.401 --> 01:23:06.001
So we just, uh, we just learn here.

01:23:06.461 --> 01:23:07.321
We're quite new here.

01:23:08.006 --> 01:23:10.096
Matt: And I think it's going
to be like community is

01:23:10.206 --> 01:23:11.586
hopefully part of that playbook.

01:23:11.596 --> 01:23:12.866
Hold that thought for a second.

01:23:12.966 --> 01:23:16.786
A friend of the show, Jordan Gall,
he had a company called Cart Hook,

01:23:17.086 --> 01:23:19.696
which integrated into Shopify.

01:23:19.696 --> 01:23:20.696
I don't know if you know him or

01:23:20.831 --> 01:23:21.401
Rytis: Yeah, I know.

01:23:21.531 --> 01:23:21.631
I

01:23:21.796 --> 01:23:22.106
Matt: Yeah.

01:23:22.396 --> 01:23:25.176
So, I mean, he said
publicly like, Yep, great.

01:23:25.216 --> 01:23:25.926
Everything was great.

01:23:25.926 --> 01:23:26.426
We're building.

01:23:26.426 --> 01:23:27.166
We're making money.

01:23:27.266 --> 01:23:28.396
We're making a lot of money.

01:23:28.776 --> 01:23:33.786
And suddenly, Shopify Same kind
of scenario where it's like, Oh,

01:23:33.786 --> 01:23:37.086
they're investing in either their own
solution or a competitor solution.

01:23:37.086 --> 01:23:38.766
And before you know, it slowly creeps out.

01:23:39.176 --> 01:23:44.976
Listen, I, there are, you know, there
are some parallels here to wordpress.

01:23:45.856 --> 01:23:50.551
com and Shopify, or maybe automatic
globally, uh, And WordPress, just

01:23:50.551 --> 01:23:51.601
like we're seeing with Shopify.

01:23:52.121 --> 01:23:59.861
I don't really trust any company that
is, uh, using, let's say social capital.

01:24:00.641 --> 01:24:01.991
You're getting free social capital.

01:24:02.441 --> 01:24:03.381
Shopify is amazing.

01:24:03.561 --> 01:24:05.311
They partner with me, they send me leads.

01:24:05.311 --> 01:24:08.421
They they're, you know, they're
recommending my plugin, uh,

01:24:08.431 --> 01:24:09.591
on the Shopify ecosystem.

01:24:09.611 --> 01:24:10.311
Oh, that's amazing.

01:24:10.551 --> 01:24:14.441
Eventually that catches up
just like free products.

01:24:15.076 --> 01:24:15.966
Catch up, right?

01:24:16.016 --> 01:24:16.716
Uh, MailChimp.

01:24:16.766 --> 01:24:17.596
Perfect example.

01:24:17.866 --> 01:24:18.246
I don't know.

01:24:18.316 --> 01:24:21.116
You had like 10, 000 emails you
could send for free back in the day.

01:24:21.116 --> 01:24:23.026
Now it's like a hundred, right?

01:24:23.196 --> 01:24:23.976
Whatever it is that they,

01:24:24.261 --> 01:24:25.561
Rytis: Look, so the same with us.

01:24:25.561 --> 01:24:25.721
Yeah.

01:24:25.721 --> 01:24:28.621
We have free plan for the small customers.

01:24:28.691 --> 01:24:28.951
Yeah.

01:24:28.951 --> 01:24:32.111
But at some point, if you grow
successfully, you start paying.

01:24:32.111 --> 01:24:33.781
So that's true.

01:24:33.781 --> 01:24:35.286
Exactly.

01:24:35.996 --> 01:24:37.816
Matt: you know, they, they,
they need to make money.

01:24:38.246 --> 01:24:43.806
And what we're all seeing in the
WordPress space is, well, wordpress.

01:24:43.806 --> 01:24:46.486
com has jetpack jetpack
has all these features.

01:24:46.486 --> 01:24:47.496
It's doing all these things.

01:24:47.656 --> 01:24:49.666
It's doing email newsletters, doing stats.

01:24:49.676 --> 01:24:50.236
It's doing video.

01:24:50.246 --> 01:24:55.536
It's a compelling product, but at the same
time, my, all of my friends and colleagues

01:24:55.566 --> 01:24:57.106
are building these same solutions.

01:24:57.126 --> 01:24:58.226
I work for gravity forms.

01:24:58.226 --> 01:24:59.136
We make forms.

01:24:59.596 --> 01:25:01.601
Uh, Jetpack has forms.

01:25:01.641 --> 01:25:05.491
Jetpack has a lot of features that a lot
of us have, but I think in the open source

01:25:05.491 --> 01:25:11.531
world It's harder to pull the rug out
from from the community It's happening

01:25:11.541 --> 01:25:17.511
slowly in some weird areas But I don't
think it'll ever be like the Shopify or

01:25:18.211 --> 01:25:21.111
you know into it buying MailChimp And
it's like oh god, you know where that's

01:25:21.111 --> 01:25:23.091
gonna go, you know, once they buy it.

01:25:23.311 --> 01:25:27.631
We're all screwed And you know, I think
with the power of open sources is what

01:25:27.641 --> 01:25:31.731
makes this a little bit more stable,
as rocky as it can feel sometimes.

01:25:32.431 --> 01:25:32.711
Rytis: Agree.

01:25:32.711 --> 01:25:32.931
Agree.

01:25:32.931 --> 01:25:36.331
And this is again, like relatively
being relatively new to the ecosystem.

01:25:36.331 --> 01:25:40.861
So kind of, this is our initial
impression that there is no, no one

01:25:40.891 --> 01:25:44.601
person, uh, making all the decisions.

01:25:44.601 --> 01:25:44.861
Yeah.

01:25:44.861 --> 01:25:49.971
And of course, like Automatic and Matt,
he, he's a great leader and of course

01:25:49.981 --> 01:25:54.811
he, he owns the credit for, for, for
launching WordPress back in the days.

01:25:54.841 --> 01:25:59.731
Uh, but, but yeah, it's not that,
you know, he can make like, um, Hmm.

01:25:59.731 --> 01:26:05.901
Um, single person decision and everybody
has is being forced to follow and there

01:26:05.901 --> 01:26:10.931
is a way more challenging for the bad
decisions coming from the community.

01:26:10.931 --> 01:26:12.971
And it's, it's, it's way more distributed.

01:26:12.971 --> 01:26:15.481
So it's not that you kind
of like, you know, make a.

01:26:16.236 --> 01:26:19.596
Evil agreement, uh, with
someone and, and that's it.

01:26:19.596 --> 01:26:23.346
And that's how you squeeze every, every
competition out of, uh, out of the, out

01:26:23.356 --> 01:26:24.646
of the market, out of the community.

01:26:24.656 --> 01:26:26.856
So I think it's, it's
really, really powerful.

01:26:27.386 --> 01:26:30.486
Of course, to what, uh, what we see.

01:26:31.101 --> 01:26:34.281
If, if that's okay to share this
impression that, and that's being kind

01:26:34.281 --> 01:26:38.541
of publicly, it's, it's, it's, it's,
uh, it's being talked, um, during the

01:26:38.541 --> 01:26:43.571
events, et cetera, that, uh, attracting
of new developers, uh, and, uh, younger

01:26:43.621 --> 01:26:47.451
generation developers, I think it's,
it's, it's, uh, crucially important

01:26:47.451 --> 01:26:49.731
for WordPress ecosystem to, to do that.

01:26:50.171 --> 01:26:53.501
Uh, there is like the average, uh, age.

01:26:54.201 --> 01:26:59.001
of attendees in WordPress event
and Shopify event is, is high,

01:26:59.001 --> 01:27:00.891
which is again, a lot of maturity.

01:27:01.101 --> 01:27:05.201
Um, and, and, uh, coming with that,
but at the same time, the balance,

01:27:05.201 --> 01:27:06.651
I think it's very important as well.

01:27:06.651 --> 01:27:09.891
And then tracking the younger
generation is, is very important

01:27:09.891 --> 01:27:11.171
as well for the ecosystem.

01:27:11.401 --> 01:27:12.851
Matt: Where is the
younger generation going?

01:27:12.851 --> 01:27:13.731
Do you have an idea?

01:27:14.431 --> 01:27:17.181
Rytis: Um, so do it yourself mainly.

01:27:17.181 --> 01:27:17.471
Yeah.

01:27:17.531 --> 01:27:20.661
Wix, Squarespace, I believe, or Shopify.

01:27:20.851 --> 01:27:21.541
Uh,

01:27:21.671 --> 01:27:24.351
Matt: just as end users
or as like developers?

01:27:24.516 --> 01:27:28.026
Rytis: Apple, I think both
because it's, it's, it's easier.

01:27:28.126 --> 01:27:28.926
It's easier.

01:27:28.926 --> 01:27:29.256
Yeah.

01:27:29.256 --> 01:27:31.606
So it's, it's basically no code.

01:27:32.156 --> 01:27:33.786
Oh, at least you can start with no code.

01:27:33.786 --> 01:27:38.526
And then, then, uh, then you start and
you, you stick and maybe you, you, you

01:27:38.526 --> 01:27:42.626
improve your capabilities, your skills
as a developer, et cetera, but, but you

01:27:42.626 --> 01:27:44.366
stay within the ecosystem you started.

01:27:44.366 --> 01:27:46.236
So I think it's very important.

01:27:46.236 --> 01:27:51.156
And this is kind of a philosophy that
we have at Omnicent as well, uh, that.

01:27:51.436 --> 01:27:56.376
Uh, in the initial level has to be
very easy to start, and it's one of

01:27:56.376 --> 01:27:59.946
a kind of fundamental principles of
our product building that the learning

01:27:59.946 --> 01:28:02.116
curve has to be very, very flat.

01:28:02.896 --> 01:28:05.706
Uh, and then, and then, then you start.

01:28:05.896 --> 01:28:06.626
So you started.

01:28:07.206 --> 01:28:08.796
getting results very fast.

01:28:08.936 --> 01:28:12.586
There are a lot of prebuilt presets,
prebuilt designs, et cetera, et cetera.

01:28:12.616 --> 01:28:17.036
Just, you know, a few clicks and you
have up and running platform and you

01:28:17.036 --> 01:28:21.916
start, in our case, start earning money
from email marketing, SMS marketing.

01:28:22.616 --> 01:28:25.186
Uh, and this is the proof
that, okay, this is for me.

01:28:25.236 --> 01:28:26.316
I can do it easily.

01:28:26.536 --> 01:28:29.876
And then there is a second layer in,
at least in our product thinking that,

01:28:29.876 --> 01:28:31.926
okay, this is an advanced settings.

01:28:32.336 --> 01:28:33.106
If you want.

01:28:33.606 --> 01:28:37.566
You can end up, you can take the
blank canvas and you start from there.

01:28:37.586 --> 01:28:41.416
Build your own automations, build your
own logic, build your own templates, etc.

01:28:41.846 --> 01:28:45.246
According to your, you
know, brand book, whatever.

01:28:45.976 --> 01:28:50.526
And the third layer is, in our case,
we, we, we call it like, you know, API.

01:28:50.611 --> 01:28:54.581
layer that you can customize as much
as you want and all the flexibility

01:28:54.591 --> 01:28:58.371
is there, but then you need like
developers, you need like specific

01:28:58.371 --> 01:29:03.791
skills and then capabilities to,
to make the most out of a product.

01:29:04.561 --> 01:29:09.021
So, so yeah, so I think like, you
know, some kind of similar logic.

01:29:09.721 --> 01:29:13.491
Applying to, to WordPress could,
could be very, very, and I think

01:29:13.491 --> 01:29:16.761
like, you know, Gutenberg and all
the recent improvements is heading,

01:29:16.771 --> 01:29:19.201
getting towards that direction.

01:29:19.711 --> 01:29:22.811
Because like Wix and Squarespace,
we have the first layer.

01:29:23.061 --> 01:29:26.781
It's very easy to start, but
can you really make something

01:29:26.801 --> 01:29:29.471
more, um, complicated or complex?

01:29:30.171 --> 01:29:31.111
Not that much.

01:29:31.366 --> 01:29:31.646
Matt: Yeah.

01:29:32.391 --> 01:29:34.356
Rytis: Uh, so, but again.

01:29:34.716 --> 01:29:38.766
Uh, you know, the, the, the,
the, the beginners start there.

01:29:38.766 --> 01:29:41.336
So that's, I think the biggest
challenge for WordPress.

01:29:41.746 --> 01:29:46.146
Matt: WordPress had it, the luxury of,
if I could say that, of when it first

01:29:46.146 --> 01:29:50.836
came on the scene and really improved
was a time on the internet where.

01:29:51.326 --> 01:29:55.246
I mean, there weren't, there wasn't
a million YouTube tutorials, right?

01:29:55.246 --> 01:29:58.276
There weren't all these folks writing
and showing you how to do WordPress.

01:29:58.616 --> 01:29:59.916
So you had to.

01:30:00.311 --> 01:30:06.791
Like crack open WordPress like I did and
kind of learn HTML CSS PHP a little bit of

01:30:06.791 --> 01:30:12.891
JavaScript how The lamp stack worked right
with hosting Linux Apache mysql PHP How do

01:30:12.891 --> 01:30:17.821
these things all function to get a website
up and running where the kids these days?

01:30:17.971 --> 01:30:22.356
All they're gonna have to do is talk to
AI and just be like hey I want a login

01:30:22.356 --> 01:30:26.376
system with a, with a shopping cart, and
then they, they'll connect up to you.

01:30:26.796 --> 01:30:30.186
Um, so, you know, they, they have
it a lot easier, uh, these days.

01:30:30.191 --> 01:30:31.326
So, yeah, I mean, I agree.

01:30:31.326 --> 01:30:37.386
It's a super challenging time to, to
bring in some fresh, um, uh, some fresh

01:30:37.391 --> 01:30:41.736
perspective and some fresh folks into the
space because it's detriment to, uh, uh,

01:30:42.066 --> 01:30:43.686
the, you know, the success of WordPress.

01:30:44.386 --> 01:30:45.001
Real, real

01:30:45.081 --> 01:30:45.551
Rytis: success.

01:30:45.551 --> 01:30:45.771
Yeah.

01:30:45.781 --> 01:30:46.531
Matt: long-term success.

01:30:46.531 --> 01:30:46.771
Yeah.

01:30:47.281 --> 01:30:47.821
Um.

01:30:48.521 --> 01:30:49.101
Speaking of A.

01:30:49.101 --> 01:30:49.241
I.

01:30:49.251 --> 01:30:52.361
real quick, hot topic,
everyone's talking about A.

01:30:52.361 --> 01:30:53.441
I., everyone's doing A.

01:30:53.461 --> 01:30:53.751
I.

01:30:54.331 --> 01:30:58.201
What do you have, do you have anything
AI, are you looking at AI, or is it like,

01:30:58.201 --> 01:31:02.211
hey, let's just wait for this thing to,
to settle in, because my god, we saw how

01:31:02.221 --> 01:31:08.871
fragile OpenAI is, uh, or ChatGPT and that
whole, uh, Sam Altman, uh, uh, non profit

01:31:08.871 --> 01:31:13.631
slash executive team structure, uh, the
whole thing almost collapsed in literally

01:31:13.631 --> 01:31:18.121
a weekend, um, what are your thoughts,
AI, future of, of that, integrating it

01:31:18.121 --> 01:31:19.731
to the product and, and its promise?

01:31:20.431 --> 01:31:23.131
Rytis: in recent lawsuits
by some major media

01:31:23.391 --> 01:31:25.081
Matt: New York, uh, yeah, New York Times,

01:31:25.371 --> 01:31:26.831
Rytis: Neon Terranx, etc, yeah.

01:31:26.831 --> 01:31:31.551
So, uh, that's just, you know, they
proved that it's just one to one.

01:31:31.591 --> 01:31:40.181
Okay, like 100 words to 99 words,
exactly the same text, uh, what was

01:31:40.191 --> 01:31:41.621
written by a professional writer.

01:31:41.631 --> 01:31:42.601
So, um.

01:31:42.866 --> 01:31:46.396
Yeah, we do have, and we do have,
uh, embedded AI solutions with

01:31:46.396 --> 01:31:51.476
PhenomenaSense, so just like few,
few, few dimensions, so the, uh, the,

01:31:51.486 --> 01:31:53.436
um, subject line generator, yeah?

01:31:53.436 --> 01:31:57.776
So you, you, you compose an email and
usually it's a kind of a creative,

01:31:57.826 --> 01:32:01.426
cause you have to be sure, you have to
emphasize the most important things and,

01:32:01.666 --> 01:32:04.346
you know, just AI suggests you five.

01:32:05.111 --> 01:32:08.001
Uh, you can regenerate and you
basically pick, you change something

01:32:08.001 --> 01:32:12.901
and I think this is a, this is kind of
illustrates how we think about the AI

01:32:13.101 --> 01:32:17.941
solution that it has to do the dinky
job and it has to be assistant for you.

01:32:17.941 --> 01:32:21.771
So I, I'm a little bit of
skeptic, uh, that AI replaces.

01:32:22.426 --> 01:32:26.336
Human intelligence, H I, but I
think it really helps us to, to

01:32:26.336 --> 01:32:27.996
shorten the time to do the same job.

01:32:27.996 --> 01:32:31.586
And so, you know, if you're a creative
writer, sometimes you in a good mood

01:32:31.586 --> 01:32:36.146
and you can come up with 10 versions,
et cetera, be very fresh, et cetera.

01:32:36.156 --> 01:32:39.576
Sometimes you're just tired and,
ah, it takes you so much time to,

01:32:39.986 --> 01:32:44.366
and you need some, you need some,
you know, you know, to, to, to

01:32:44.601 --> 01:32:44.921
Matt: a little bit of

01:32:45.221 --> 01:32:45.721
Rytis: the spark.

01:32:45.721 --> 01:32:48.361
Yeah, this is, yeah, this is a good,
maybe just to catch on something.

01:32:48.361 --> 01:32:52.291
And I've read some time ago,
articles about some of good

01:32:52.311 --> 01:32:53.901
artists, that the painters.

01:32:54.111 --> 01:32:59.701
So they have, uh, they have assistants who
sometimes we just ask assistant to start

01:32:59.731 --> 01:33:04.511
painting because they are out of the mood
and they have no inspiration at that time.

01:33:04.511 --> 01:33:06.781
And the assistant starts
to paint something and then

01:33:06.781 --> 01:33:08.131
the artist has the spark.

01:33:08.211 --> 01:33:10.761
Okay, I will complete this.

01:33:10.761 --> 01:33:11.721
And this is my.

01:33:11.821 --> 01:33:13.211
still artwork.

01:33:13.701 --> 01:33:15.721
So I think this is what AI does.

01:33:15.721 --> 01:33:16.581
And just an example.

01:33:16.581 --> 01:33:16.721
Yeah.

01:33:16.721 --> 01:33:20.181
So subject line generated
or, uh, inline editing.

01:33:20.181 --> 01:33:20.371
Yeah.

01:33:20.371 --> 01:33:24.621
So when you write a copy, there
is a, a, AI, AI generator.

01:33:24.631 --> 01:33:28.211
So you just basically with an
omniscient, you just drive the context.

01:33:28.211 --> 01:33:28.531
Okay.

01:33:28.531 --> 01:33:32.456
I would like to promote,
promote this, uh, uh, Mac.

01:33:32.576 --> 01:33:33.846
Yeah, I have some water here.

01:33:33.846 --> 01:33:35.546
Let's, let's, let's promote the Mac.

01:33:35.546 --> 01:33:35.826
Okay.

01:33:35.826 --> 01:33:38.946
I want to promote this gray Mac,
uh, because it's very fresh.

01:33:38.946 --> 01:33:42.006
It's keeps water fresh for, for
many hours, et cetera, et cetera.

01:33:42.006 --> 01:33:46.636
And AI comes with a proper,
good, good style text, et cetera.

01:33:47.476 --> 01:33:52.516
Uh, we tried, we tried a solution
that we, uh, that, uh, entire

01:33:52.566 --> 01:33:54.236
email is being generated by AI.

01:33:54.236 --> 01:33:54.386
Okay.

01:33:55.086 --> 01:33:58.636
Uh, people were not
adopting that too much.

01:33:59.316 --> 01:34:03.206
Uh, and then we changed to this
just a paragraph editing or

01:34:03.206 --> 01:34:05.226
paragraph composing with AI.

01:34:05.236 --> 01:34:08.696
It's being way better adopted in
comparison to the full, because it's

01:34:08.706 --> 01:34:12.366
still kind of me as a marketer who
makes a decision what I want to promote,

01:34:13.096 --> 01:34:15.366
unless you do full automated marketing.

01:34:15.956 --> 01:34:18.966
Uh, and, uh, and yes, and, uh, again.

01:34:19.181 --> 01:34:20.571
The assistance is needed.

01:34:20.611 --> 01:34:25.171
This assistance is well accepted
and really welcomed opposite to just

01:34:25.201 --> 01:34:29.991
replacement of a full replacement,
replacement of a, of a human intelligence.

01:34:30.541 --> 01:34:35.451
So this is how we, we think about AI,
that it's a really great assistant.

01:34:35.451 --> 01:34:39.571
And of course, we are trying to embed it
in as much as possible just to do the.

01:34:40.106 --> 01:34:48.046
The, this donkey job where sometimes, uh,
you know, you cannot personalize, uh, like

01:34:48.046 --> 01:34:52.826
for 1000 customers, for 100, 000 customers
to write a really, really personal email.

01:34:53.466 --> 01:34:57.576
Uh, AI could do that, but again,
it's you who has to make a decision.

01:34:57.976 --> 01:34:59.126
What exactly?

01:34:59.166 --> 01:34:59.476
Okay.

01:34:59.476 --> 01:35:01.176
Not exactly, but what direction?

01:35:01.876 --> 01:35:06.076
What tone and voice, what, what you
want to promote, uh, et cetera, what

01:35:06.086 --> 01:35:09.406
you want to invite your customers
to do, either purchase immediately

01:35:09.406 --> 01:35:12.616
or maybe help them with a product
they purchased already in the past.

01:35:12.616 --> 01:35:17.076
Or maybe just, uh, you know,
uh, provide some, some help,

01:35:17.076 --> 01:35:18.186
some assistance, et cetera.

01:35:18.196 --> 01:35:21.206
So yeah, so that's how we think about AI.

01:35:21.906 --> 01:35:23.566
Matt: Omni send dot com.

01:35:23.566 --> 01:35:25.056
You can start for free.

01:35:25.066 --> 01:35:26.606
Fantastic sponsor of the show.

01:35:26.616 --> 01:35:26.846
Rita's.

01:35:26.846 --> 01:35:31.956
Thank you so much for connecting, uh, with
my brand and my fellow, uh, colleagues

01:35:31.956 --> 01:35:34.926
brands to help support the WordPress
community, help support content like

01:35:34.926 --> 01:35:37.526
this showing up on yet another podcast.

01:35:37.546 --> 01:35:42.776
Um, I, I think I asked you some questions
that I haven't heard you answer yet today.

01:35:42.776 --> 01:35:45.906
So, uh, I hope, uh, I hope the
listener got some value from it.

01:35:46.166 --> 01:35:47.126
Free plan.

01:35:47.426 --> 01:35:52.596
16 a month, 59 per month, the best
person for this platform right now

01:35:52.596 --> 01:35:56.546
you'd say is folks who are integrating
with e commerce with WooCommerce.

01:35:56.996 --> 01:36:01.666
I do have some, I don't know, uh,
behind the scenes look because

01:36:01.666 --> 01:36:02.796
I do work at Gravity Forms.

01:36:02.796 --> 01:36:07.726
We've been working with your team to,
uh, connect, uh, OmniSend to Gravity

01:36:07.726 --> 01:36:12.646
Forms without the need for WooCommerce
because you can sell stuff with Gravity

01:36:12.646 --> 01:36:15.286
Forms, you can sell stuff with other
things on, on WordPress, of course.

01:36:15.706 --> 01:36:19.506
Um, so anyone who's making
that transaction This is the

01:36:19.516 --> 01:36:20.456
type of customer that should be

01:36:20.641 --> 01:36:21.051
Rytis: Correct.

01:36:21.331 --> 01:36:21.661
Correct.

01:36:21.731 --> 01:36:28.591
And we are currently working and it will
be launched till the end of, uh, Q1, 2024.

01:36:28.591 --> 01:36:34.341
So if you're listening us after this,
so we will, we will have, uh, just

01:36:34.351 --> 01:36:40.256
generic WordPress integration and
plugin for anyone who any transactions

01:36:40.616 --> 01:36:45.066
online and send them and does it,
uh, either gravity forms or some

01:36:45.076 --> 01:36:49.826
LMS systems, et cetera, uh, using
WordPress so we can utilize OmniSend.

01:36:50.526 --> 01:36:52.166
Matt: Best place to connect, OmniSend.

01:36:52.186 --> 01:36:52.476
com.

01:36:52.476 --> 01:36:56.246
You want to send anyone, someone,
anywhere else that you spend

01:36:56.396 --> 01:36:57.076
Rytis: So OmniSend.

01:36:57.116 --> 01:36:58.046
com is the best.

01:36:58.046 --> 01:37:02.996
So you can either request for a demo
and talk to our, uh, account executive.

01:37:02.996 --> 01:37:05.876
So you can just, you know, sign up.

01:37:06.286 --> 01:37:10.036
Have an account and explore on your
own and there are a lot of videos and

01:37:10.036 --> 01:37:13.286
even though if you are not Maybe if you
are happy with your current solution

01:37:13.956 --> 01:37:15.516
We have a great resource center.

01:37:15.526 --> 01:37:18.776
So I'm going to send just only
send resources on send block.

01:37:18.776 --> 01:37:24.276
So there are a lot of written
content video content lessons

01:37:24.276 --> 01:37:28.216
advices How how to better run your
email marketing SMS marketing?

01:37:28.431 --> 01:37:31.461
Web push notification,
notifications and marketing.

01:37:31.871 --> 01:37:33.611
So it doesn't matter
if you use OmniCenter.

01:37:33.611 --> 01:37:39.081
No, we, we do have a lot of resources
for you to, to be a better, uh, marketer.

01:37:39.111 --> 01:37:42.911
And by the way, our website, our
blog is running on WordPress.

01:37:43.476 --> 01:37:44.066
Matt: Fantastic.

01:37:44.066 --> 01:37:45.026
Fantastic stuff.

01:37:45.536 --> 01:37:45.816
Rita's.

01:37:45.816 --> 01:37:47.286
Thanks so much again
for hanging out today.

01:37:47.296 --> 01:37:51.646
You're the only CEO I know that is
actually building in public without

01:37:51.646 --> 01:37:53.356
saying you're building in public.

01:37:53.356 --> 01:37:54.466
So fantastic.

01:37:54.746 --> 01:37:55.226
Fantastic.

01:37:55.866 --> 01:37:58.236
I was going to say, like, I'm
looking as I'm researching, I'm

01:37:58.236 --> 01:37:59.306
like, this guy's building in public.

01:37:59.306 --> 01:38:00.746
He's not using the
hashtag building public.

01:38:00.996 --> 01:38:02.256
He's not promoting an ebook.

01:38:02.266 --> 01:38:03.896
He's not promoting a master class.

01:38:04.216 --> 01:38:04.876
Who is this guy?

01:38:05.176 --> 01:38:07.986
He's deep in the product
building Omni send.

01:38:08.306 --> 01:38:09.316
Check out Omni send dot com.

01:38:09.316 --> 01:38:10.246
Thanks for listening, everybody.

01:38:10.946 --> 01:38:11.346
Rytis: Thanks.