WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.789 --> 00:00:06.320 Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:12.000 see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care. 00:00:12.580 --> 00:00:14.559 I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host. 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:20.560 I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people. 00:00:21.099 --> 00:00:23.360 So come and join us for today's conversation. 00:00:25.060 --> 00:00:26.710 Anke: Hello and welcome, Jill. 00:00:26.710 --> 00:00:28.420 I'm super delighted to have you here. 00:00:29.710 --> 00:00:30.340 Jill: Thank you. 00:00:30.340 --> 00:00:31.990 I'm excited to be here. 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:33.280 Anke: Awesome. 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:37.240 Like let's start, as we always start, let's let people know where 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:41.200 in this lovely world you're based and what's your business with dogs. 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:47.230 Jill: So I am based in the East San Francisco Bay in California. 00:00:48.400 --> 00:00:52.120 And I was basically born in love with animals. 00:00:52.330 --> 00:00:52.360 Aw. 00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:55.570 So, um, but especially dogs. 00:00:56.140 --> 00:01:00.820 And, uh, so, um, I have, uh. 00:01:01.270 --> 00:01:04.360 Stewarded, uh, 10 dogs of my own. 00:01:04.570 --> 00:01:05.830 I currently have two. 00:01:06.250 --> 00:01:09.790 And, um, I've fostered probably just as many. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:17.170 And, um, I, I use the word steward because, um, you know, 00:01:17.260 --> 00:01:18.730 we don't really own them. 00:01:18.940 --> 00:01:20.560 They are their own personalities. 00:01:22.510 --> 00:01:25.795 Um, but they give to us so freely. 00:01:26.470 --> 00:01:33.340 And, um, I have trained, uh, two dogs through, um, national, um, 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:41.020 uh, championships and, uh, in agility and, um, it, I love agility. 00:01:41.020 --> 00:01:44.890 Agility is just the best because the dogs are off leash. 00:01:45.100 --> 00:01:48.820 They can do whatever they want and they choose. 00:01:49.810 --> 00:01:51.700 Two, try to please you. 00:01:52.390 --> 00:01:58.870 And the thing that most amazes me about dogs is that they choose 00:01:58.870 --> 00:02:01.240 humans over their own species. 00:02:02.440 --> 00:02:06.190 And I don't know of any other species that does that. 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:10.120 Um, it really is truly a remarkable bond. 00:02:10.810 --> 00:02:17.050 And, um, so it's, it's, it was sort of, of course I was going to, um. 00:02:18.145 --> 00:02:21.505 Put my, our author Life in with Dogs. 00:02:21.535 --> 00:02:27.115 So I have written three books, uh, with dogs as a main character. 00:02:27.655 --> 00:02:31.885 And, um, my goal is to, uh. 00:02:33.235 --> 00:02:35.965 Um, educate through entertainment. 00:02:37.225 --> 00:02:40.885 And so, um, I have these fun books. 00:02:40.885 --> 00:02:48.385 I have a series of three and, um, they each feature, uh, a dog that 00:02:48.385 --> 00:02:52.705 sees ghosts and, um, my journey. 00:02:52.765 --> 00:02:55.705 So this is, um, this is the first in the series. 00:02:55.885 --> 00:03:00.415 This is, um, between shadows, eyes, and um. 00:03:01.180 --> 00:03:06.640 My journey, uh, to how I wanted to educate was kind of convoluted. 00:03:07.300 --> 00:03:13.480 So I started out, um, with the dog being a border collie. 00:03:13.750 --> 00:03:22.990 A mix, which was totally, um, fashioned over my own dog who was a foster fail. 00:03:24.040 --> 00:03:26.050 It was the only, my only foster fail. 00:03:26.620 --> 00:03:33.610 Um, but during the process of the writing, I started, uh, writing a, um. 00:03:34.420 --> 00:03:37.450 A dog rescue column for a local paper. 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:46.150 And, uh, my publisher, um, had a friend who had this doberman that, um, had a 00:03:46.150 --> 00:03:48.760 crazy amount of Instagram followers. 00:03:49.150 --> 00:03:53.320 Um, at the time there were like over 200,000. 00:03:53.740 --> 00:03:58.600 Um, but she rocketed, um, even during the course of, of the three 00:03:58.600 --> 00:04:06.970 books that I've written, um, to over 500,000 plus, she had, um, 1.6 00:04:06.970 --> 00:04:08.920 million TikTok followers. 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:12.730 So she became this ambassador for the Doberman Species. 00:04:12.790 --> 00:04:17.560 And I started to think, you know, how can I promote? 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.920 Dogs in my book and I thought, well, you know, Dobermans have 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:25.465 gotten a really, really bad rap. 00:04:26.440 --> 00:04:33.580 And, um, so I, I contacted the owner, um, Charles Lindsay of um, Ruby. 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:34.450 This is Ruby. 00:04:35.020 --> 00:04:38.650 Um, her Instagram handle is Ruby Dooby Doo. 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.290 And, um, she, um. 00:04:44.865 --> 00:04:49.095 Sh it, it, it, my, my original dog was a, he, I had to make it a, she 00:04:49.095 --> 00:04:53.295 or I didn't have to, but I, I wanted to be as close to Ruby as possible. 00:04:53.865 --> 00:04:57.975 And so in the, the, at the end of the first book, um, just a little bit about 00:04:57.975 --> 00:05:00.345 the book, it's, it really is entertaining. 00:05:00.345 --> 00:05:01.965 It's a suspense novel. 00:05:02.265 --> 00:05:09.765 My protagonist is a teen girl who's been, um, uh, orphaned and she 00:05:09.765 --> 00:05:13.245 rescues this doberman and it turns out the Doberman can see ghosts. 00:05:14.545 --> 00:05:18.205 And when she puts her fingers between the dog's eyes like 00:05:18.205 --> 00:05:20.365 this, she can see the ghost too. 00:05:21.115 --> 00:05:24.565 And she's trying to keep it quiet that she's living on her own. 00:05:24.685 --> 00:05:28.045 Um, and the dog's barking and she's getting notices from 00:05:28.045 --> 00:05:29.365 complaints from the neighbors. 00:05:29.725 --> 00:05:32.665 So she takes the dog to an animal behaviorist. 00:05:32.665 --> 00:05:37.975 And the animal behaviorist has a history with the ghost in our house. 00:05:39.820 --> 00:05:41.560 So there's all this tension. 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:46.990 We don't really know what people's motivations are, and she is, you 00:05:46.990 --> 00:05:54.220 know, constantly being, um, reassured by her dog, who is sweet Doberman's 00:05:54.280 --> 00:05:56.650 can be very, very, very sweet. 00:05:56.710 --> 00:05:58.840 And I think people don't realize that. 00:05:59.350 --> 00:06:03.505 And so in this book, I'm really trying to de-stigmatize the breed. 00:06:04.915 --> 00:06:10.735 Um, and uh, so that was kind of my goal for the first book. 00:06:11.725 --> 00:06:16.135 Then in the second book, um, this is, uh. 00:06:17.095 --> 00:06:23.125 From shadow's perspective and, um, she has been outed. 00:06:24.325 --> 00:06:30.835 She, um, she now lives, um, part-time next door with her neighbor, uh, 00:06:30.835 --> 00:06:33.595 which allows her to keep, um, the dog. 00:06:34.225 --> 00:06:36.535 Um, and she's back in high school. 00:06:36.565 --> 00:06:39.535 She was trying to, you know, do crazy odd jobs. 00:06:40.210 --> 00:06:41.860 You know, slip under the wire. 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:46.060 She really didn't want to go into foster care, but she's been outage. 00:06:46.060 --> 00:06:47.710 She's back into a normal teen life. 00:06:49.255 --> 00:06:57.085 She takes her dog to, um, an art class and uh, the dog is barking 00:06:57.085 --> 00:07:00.145 and she of course puts her fingers between the eyes and sees there's 00:07:00.145 --> 00:07:03.475 this little ghost, toddler boy in the. 00:07:03.845 --> 00:07:04.775 In the room. 00:07:04.865 --> 00:07:07.085 And so she starts being an amateur sleuth. 00:07:07.085 --> 00:07:08.885 What happened to this little boy? 00:07:08.885 --> 00:07:10.085 It gets very suspenseful. 00:07:10.085 --> 00:07:17.345 It happens on Halloween night, and of course the, the animal behaviorist 00:07:17.345 --> 00:07:19.805 has some a part in this as well. 00:07:20.435 --> 00:07:28.355 Um, and in this book, um, I really, um, wanted to make people 00:07:28.355 --> 00:07:32.915 think about, um, what their. 00:07:33.355 --> 00:07:41.425 Um, living situation is and is a high energy breed appropriate for them. 00:07:41.935 --> 00:07:47.245 Um, you know, putting a doberman in a crate for eight hours while you're, 00:07:47.305 --> 00:07:51.655 um, while you're working is probably not the best life for that dog. 00:07:52.105 --> 00:07:56.935 Um, but, you know, maybe a small dog is more appropriate for that situation. 00:07:56.935 --> 00:08:00.475 So I really kind of, uh, go through, you know. 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:08.440 Being a responsible, um, steward and finding the I love about Right. 00:08:09.130 --> 00:08:13.870 Um, and then in the last book, um, the sad thing, this is, 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:16.240 um, uh, I'm terrible at this. 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:16.780 There we go. 00:08:17.230 --> 00:08:17.710 Um. 00:08:18.265 --> 00:08:27.505 This book, um, uh, my protagonist is exploring her roots, um, and her 00:08:27.505 --> 00:08:30.505 mother, uh, comes and visits as a ghost. 00:08:31.645 --> 00:08:38.275 Um, so she's, uh, really grappling with, um, family and, 00:08:38.365 --> 00:08:41.275 um, and in, in, in the, um. 00:08:42.700 --> 00:08:44.410 Chaos of an earthquake. 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:51.820 Um, so she has, again, interactions with the infamous Dr. 00:08:51.820 --> 00:08:53.800 Griffin, uh, the behaviorist. 00:08:53.830 --> 00:08:59.440 And, uh, again, a lot of suspense, a lot of, um, a lot of emotion 00:08:59.470 --> 00:09:01.810 about family and what family means. 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:02.920 And of course. 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.200 Shadow in every book is sweet. 00:09:05.260 --> 00:09:09.220 And, uh, in particular in this book, she saves the day. 00:09:10.015 --> 00:09:10.235 Oh, 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:13.360 Anke: got a love book, book where the dog saves the day. 00:09:14.020 --> 00:09:14.470 Yeah. 00:09:15.010 --> 00:09:19.210 Jill: Um, and then at the, at, in the end of the book, I really talk about, 00:09:19.210 --> 00:09:23.140 um, unfortunately, um, during the writing of this book, Ruby passed away 00:09:23.140 --> 00:09:27.520 from DCM, which is a heart condition. 00:09:27.670 --> 00:09:28.000 Um. 00:09:28.570 --> 00:09:34.630 I can't remember what the, um, acronym stands for, but a lot of large breeds have 00:09:34.630 --> 00:09:40.960 this, and Dobermans in particular have this, um, condition and it's, it's awful. 00:09:41.020 --> 00:09:44.680 Um, they can literally be out chasing the ball and fall over dead. 00:09:44.680 --> 00:09:44.710 I. 00:09:45.115 --> 00:09:45.175 Oh. 00:09:46.375 --> 00:09:54.325 Um, and, uh, Ruby had an early diagnosis and that enabled, um, Charles, her, his, 00:09:54.535 --> 00:10:00.925 her owner to, um, manage the disease and, and really prolong her life. 00:10:01.345 --> 00:10:06.925 And so in the back of this book, I talk about DCM and I talk about early 00:10:06.925 --> 00:10:11.275 warning signs so that people can know. 00:10:11.680 --> 00:10:16.360 Um, what to look for, what to watch for, and get the dog to the vet immediately 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:17.950 if they start seeing symptoms. 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:18.040 Hmm. 00:10:19.385 --> 00:10:21.670 And I can actually tell you some of the symptoms. 00:10:21.730 --> 00:10:22.810 I looked them down. 00:10:23.620 --> 00:10:30.130 Um, so some of the early symptoms are, um, uh, decreased tolerance to 00:10:30.130 --> 00:10:34.990 exercise, um, heart murmurs and um. 00:10:35.980 --> 00:10:37.930 Irregular heart rhythms. 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:43.510 Um, and then as the disease progresses, they might start coughing. 00:10:43.540 --> 00:10:46.060 They might stop eating as much. 00:10:46.510 --> 00:10:51.070 Um, their gums get pale, they get, can get abdominal swelling. 00:10:51.400 --> 00:10:55.000 It can be difficult for them to rise through their feet. 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.040 And then in, in. 00:10:57.505 --> 00:11:03.895 Severe cases, um, they might start panting, um, their tongues can 00:11:03.895 --> 00:11:07.255 turn blue and they start to drool. 00:11:07.345 --> 00:11:12.025 Um, at that point it is imperative to get the dog to a vet. 00:11:12.505 --> 00:11:17.365 Um, but really, um, you know, it, it's a terrible disease. 00:11:17.365 --> 00:11:21.115 It can happen, you know, in the snap of a finger and you 00:11:21.115 --> 00:11:22.465 don't even know the dog's sick. 00:11:22.465 --> 00:11:23.815 So, you know. 00:11:24.205 --> 00:11:26.815 People should really keep their eyes open. 00:11:28.045 --> 00:11:28.195 Anke: Yeah, for sure, for 00:11:28.195 --> 00:11:28.735 Jill: sure. 00:11:29.005 --> 00:11:29.605 Anke: No, I love that. 00:11:29.605 --> 00:11:37.195 And I love the whole idea of a serious, and so were you like a writer before 00:11:37.345 --> 00:11:41.665 you started, like, you know, focusing on dogs or like how, how did it occur to 00:11:41.665 --> 00:11:47.845 you to, you know, package those lessons and those goals that you mentioned in? 00:11:47.845 --> 00:11:51.805 Because you could have written like an educational kind of nonfiction. 00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:53.170 Book. 00:11:53.230 --> 00:11:53.845 Right, right. 00:11:53.850 --> 00:11:57.340 So, but you chose to wrap it into. 00:11:57.685 --> 00:11:59.575 Into, you know, fiction. 00:11:59.785 --> 00:12:01.375 And that's not just a decision. 00:12:01.375 --> 00:12:03.415 Like there needs to be a skill behind that. 00:12:03.745 --> 00:12:07.045 Like, so I can't just go, I was like, oh yeah, let me just write a novel. 00:12:07.045 --> 00:12:10.345 Like, you need to understand structure and character development and have 00:12:10.345 --> 00:12:12.295 a plot and, and all these things. 00:12:12.295 --> 00:12:16.555 So did you know all that before or, or which, which way around did it go? 00:12:17.155 --> 00:12:19.435 Jill: So, I actually have a science background. 00:12:19.435 --> 00:12:23.395 I, uh, have a master's degree in environmental management and a 00:12:23.395 --> 00:12:25.255 bachelor's in biological science. 00:12:26.035 --> 00:12:33.595 And, um, my first book, which still is not published, I, uh, I wanted to 00:12:33.595 --> 00:12:35.965 write about environmental disasters. 00:12:35.965 --> 00:12:41.365 And I started out with the idea of writing, you know, a science based book. 00:12:41.395 --> 00:12:45.865 And my husband said to me, said, you know, you're kind of preaching to the choir. 00:12:45.925 --> 00:12:47.065 Why don't you. 00:12:48.055 --> 00:12:52.225 You know, do this idea of, of entertaining, uh, but 00:12:52.225 --> 00:12:53.515 still educating people. 00:12:53.515 --> 00:12:55.495 And it just like clicked with me. 00:12:55.495 --> 00:12:59.815 So, of course, I did not know how to write a novel, so I went to classes and 00:12:59.815 --> 00:13:02.210 I, uh, studied and, and did all that. 00:13:03.125 --> 00:13:09.395 And, uh, and so my first book was, um, was based on, uh, the introduction of 00:13:09.395 --> 00:13:12.035 the mosquito in Hawaii in ancient times. 00:13:14.465 --> 00:13:16.625 And I do plan to go back to it. 00:13:16.625 --> 00:13:18.605 It's just other things got in the way. 00:13:19.505 --> 00:13:26.345 Um, and uh, the, my first published book was I went to, 00:13:26.345 --> 00:13:28.625 um, Africa on an African Safari. 00:13:29.665 --> 00:13:32.515 And I learned that three rhinos were being killed every day for 00:13:32.515 --> 00:13:35.965 their horns, and then it was like. 00:13:36.385 --> 00:13:38.785 I have to do something about this. 00:13:38.875 --> 00:13:45.205 So I, I wrote a book again, it's a, a, a young protagonist who goes on safari. 00:13:45.205 --> 00:13:49.945 She's dealing with relationship problems with her dad, and then she gets lost in 00:13:49.945 --> 00:13:55.615 the bush surrounded by fire and between rhino poachers and two endangered rhinos. 00:13:56.305 --> 00:13:58.585 So I, I love writing suspense. 00:13:58.675 --> 00:13:59.635 I love writing. 00:13:59.665 --> 00:14:00.085 Um. 00:14:00.655 --> 00:14:03.470 Uh, about animals and I also, it's 00:14:03.470 --> 00:14:04.150 Anke: a cool combination. 00:14:04.435 --> 00:14:08.275 I really love this idea, you know, because to, because I think we do 00:14:08.275 --> 00:14:10.645 learn best through stories, right? 00:14:10.645 --> 00:14:14.965 And when we can really identify with, with, uh, with the character 00:14:14.965 --> 00:14:16.190 and, you know, but that's. 00:14:17.110 --> 00:14:17.470 I love that. 00:14:17.470 --> 00:14:17.473 I love that. 00:14:19.175 --> 00:14:22.595 Jill: Well, if you think about it, traditionally that's what humans did. 00:14:22.595 --> 00:14:25.745 They sat around the campfire and they told stories. 00:14:25.745 --> 00:14:29.465 They told folklore, they told things to, you know, keep the kids in line. 00:14:29.465 --> 00:14:31.415 You know, the boogey man's gonna come get you. 00:14:31.805 --> 00:14:37.565 Um, and so to put it in book form, it just seemed like, you know, my husband 00:14:37.565 --> 00:14:40.630 had the idea, but I just like ran with it because I thought it was brilliant. 00:14:42.250 --> 00:14:42.880 Anke: No, I agree. 00:14:42.880 --> 00:14:43.480 I agree. 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:44.170 Totally agree. 00:14:44.500 --> 00:14:49.390 So what, do you know what your, like is your typical reader like a teenager, like 00:14:49.780 --> 00:14:54.310 identifying kind of, or is it older people or do you, what do you like, do you know? 00:14:55.180 --> 00:14:57.100 Jill: It's, it's mostly older people. 00:14:57.100 --> 00:15:02.140 Uh, you know, I think it's a sort of a misnomer that young adult books are for 00:15:02.140 --> 00:15:09.430 teenagers because, uh, a young adult book can deal with very sophisticated issues. 00:15:09.880 --> 00:15:10.570 Um. 00:15:11.155 --> 00:15:16.825 And my reader is someone who likes to, you know, reengage in that time 00:15:16.825 --> 00:15:19.345 in your life, which is so formative. 00:15:19.345 --> 00:15:19.915 Right. 00:15:20.455 --> 00:15:26.365 And a lot of adults, I'd say the majority of young adult readers are adults. 00:15:26.485 --> 00:15:29.995 Um, so yeah, my, uh, a lot of my, uh, you know, of course 00:15:29.995 --> 00:15:31.345 I do have some teen readers. 00:15:31.705 --> 00:15:32.005 Um. 00:15:32.575 --> 00:15:36.235 But the focus, especially with the Safari books, I mean, a lot of people 00:15:36.235 --> 00:15:38.995 read the, uh, I have two in that series. 00:15:39.025 --> 00:15:41.815 Um, the other one's called the, well, the first is Rhino in the Room, and 00:15:41.815 --> 00:15:43.435 the second is Queen of the Rhino. 00:15:44.215 --> 00:15:50.425 Um, and, um, people that are going on Safari because the other, my other goal. 00:15:51.085 --> 00:15:57.865 With those books was to, um, to educate or to basically create the 00:15:57.865 --> 00:16:02.545 experience of a safari for people who can't go there for whatever reason. 00:16:02.545 --> 00:16:06.055 If it's, if it's financial or, um. 00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:09.370 Health reasons or, or whatever. 00:16:09.370 --> 00:16:13.660 I really thought it was such a magical experience and I wanted to share that. 00:16:14.110 --> 00:16:17.650 Um, in way in the second book, queen of the Rhino, there's a 00:16:17.650 --> 00:16:19.780 doberman that has a cameo in there. 00:16:22.570 --> 00:16:23.980 I have to put those dogs in there. 00:16:25.555 --> 00:16:26.045 Anke: Fair enough. 00:16:26.045 --> 00:16:28.390 I think think you're totally right. 00:16:29.110 --> 00:16:30.340 So when you. 00:16:31.885 --> 00:16:36.295 Always fascinated about the book writing, like, so when you have an idea for a 00:16:36.295 --> 00:16:38.785 new project, like where do you start? 00:16:38.785 --> 00:16:39.385 In your mind? 00:16:39.385 --> 00:16:42.865 Do you start with like, okay, here's the core message I wanna 00:16:42.865 --> 00:16:44.575 bring across, or do you have first. 00:16:45.235 --> 00:16:51.145 An idea or a spark for a storyline and then pull out the, the lesson or the, 00:16:51.145 --> 00:16:52.915 the moral of the story afterwards. 00:16:53.335 --> 00:16:55.495 Jill: You know, it really is a process. 00:16:55.675 --> 00:17:03.535 Um, so usually the idea comes to me, um, first and, and usually 00:17:03.535 --> 00:17:07.375 like, um, the current, one of the current projects I'm working on 00:17:07.375 --> 00:17:10.045 is, again, a doberman, uh, is my. 00:17:10.975 --> 00:17:14.755 My, my dog breed, just because I really wanna promote the, the breed. 00:17:15.085 --> 00:17:19.195 Um, and I have a lot of Doberman, uh, followers. 00:17:20.305 --> 00:17:21.205 People don't have Dobermans. 00:17:21.535 --> 00:17:26.905 Um, but, um, this Doberman is, uh, a scent detection dog. 00:17:27.535 --> 00:17:33.625 Uh, and, uh, it has learned, she has learned to identify, 00:17:33.625 --> 00:17:36.055 um, a diseased beehives. 00:17:37.645 --> 00:17:42.385 And so I'm, I am, and I did not know this at the time when I first started 00:17:42.385 --> 00:17:49.615 writing it again, it's a process, but, uh, 90% of the USBs come into California 00:17:49.615 --> 00:17:55.375 in February to help pollinate the, um, almond trees in the Central Valley. 00:17:56.125 --> 00:18:00.955 And so what would happen if a lot of those hives started to collapse? 00:18:00.955 --> 00:18:06.055 And so, you know, I, I, I, I, I took that idea and I'm running with it. 00:18:06.910 --> 00:18:09.970 So, um, different, different, uh, main character. 00:18:09.970 --> 00:18:13.870 This actually is a, an adult rather than a young adult. 00:18:14.350 --> 00:18:21.160 Um, she's in a, a college, uh, and, uh, again, suspenseful. 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.860 You don't quite know what's going on, 00:18:25.630 --> 00:18:28.810 Anke: so you have that idea and then you develop the characters and 00:18:28.810 --> 00:18:29.985 the plot and all of that around it. 00:18:30.970 --> 00:18:33.130 Jill: I'm very plot driven for sure. 00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:33.970 Anke: Yeah. 00:18:34.330 --> 00:18:34.690 Jill: Yeah. 00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:38.260 And then, you know, of course the message, you know, is climate change, 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:42.610 pesticide use, you know, getting into my environmental roots here. 00:18:42.910 --> 00:18:45.130 Anke: I was just thinking, see, I always find there's a really magic. 00:18:45.875 --> 00:18:49.265 Spot when sort of different passions merge and there's this, there's 00:18:49.265 --> 00:18:52.415 this spot where they overlap, where all the pieces come together. 00:18:52.415 --> 00:18:52.655 Right. 00:18:52.655 --> 00:18:54.035 And it's all kind of, yeah. 00:18:54.035 --> 00:18:59.615 I think that's a very, um, powerful place, place to be and place to create from, you 00:18:59.615 --> 00:19:04.055 know, because yeah, there's just something about that when it's not just like, oh, 00:19:04.055 --> 00:19:07.415 it's the dogs, or it's the science, or it's the, you know, like, it's when. 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:12.640 There's a place, and I, I feel that you found that medium where you have that 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:16.480 artistic expression, you get to bring scientists there, and you work, you get 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:20.440 to bring the love for the dogs in and, or, you know, animals in, in general. 00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:25.840 It's, um, yeah, it's, it's a really, really powerful combination. 00:19:26.950 --> 00:19:29.650 Jill: And in the, um, in this book, um. 00:19:31.135 --> 00:19:33.805 I keep doing this wrong from perspective. 00:19:34.135 --> 00:19:37.465 Um, I actually snuck in, um, agility. 00:19:38.935 --> 00:19:40.675 Anke: Ah, I was gonna ask you about that. 00:19:40.675 --> 00:19:42.055 I was gonna ask you about it. 00:19:42.685 --> 00:19:46.405 The thing is like, I love watching it, like, and I love watching. 00:19:46.765 --> 00:19:50.875 Um, like there's really two extremes that I love watching. 00:19:51.085 --> 00:19:52.135 It's like the winners. 00:19:52.195 --> 00:19:57.265 Know, and I remember there was some, like a, a, a dog training, a couple, like they 00:19:57.265 --> 00:20:01.885 basically had, you know, had a membership that I was a part of and she went on and 00:20:01.885 --> 00:20:07.345 took her that little cocker that I kind of knew from all the lessons because she, 00:20:07.345 --> 00:20:08.995 he was always the Guinea pig all there. 00:20:08.995 --> 00:20:11.995 Like, you know, the, it was all very, like, it was all game space. 00:20:12.085 --> 00:20:15.385 It was literally you play with your dog and the dog learns 00:20:15.385 --> 00:20:16.825 stuff in, in the process, right? 00:20:17.065 --> 00:20:18.390 And so there was all, all. 00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:20.750 Ated something. 00:20:20.750 --> 00:20:25.760 She would use that little, and then he still, and still learning himself. 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.040 She went him. 00:20:30.580 --> 00:20:31.660 And she won the thing. 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:33.400 Like, oh, I was like, oh my God. 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:33.910 Blitz the thing. 00:20:35.155 --> 00:20:35.535 You know? 00:20:35.875 --> 00:20:38.135 And it felt as if, right? 00:20:38.435 --> 00:20:41.740 And then on the other hand, there's like, who's kind of like, 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:43.090 yeah, well I couldn't be asked. 00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:46.840 Like, I'm just gonna do, I'm just gonna take off the poles here and I'm just 00:20:46.840 --> 00:20:48.970 gonna sit here and do whatever I want. 00:20:48.975 --> 00:20:53.110 Like, like these kind of like fails or these really big dogs who just 00:20:53.110 --> 00:20:55.415 kind like, you know, and I just think. 00:20:56.560 --> 00:21:00.220 And if there's one question that always shoots to my mind is 00:21:00.220 --> 00:21:02.770 like, how does one teach this? 00:21:02.830 --> 00:21:06.400 You know, because I can have a little agility course in my backyard. 00:21:07.135 --> 00:21:10.705 And then the dog will know these elements and these tunnels and 00:21:10.975 --> 00:21:13.615 you know, but then they go to a competition and it's all different. 00:21:13.615 --> 00:21:15.895 Like, how, how do you teach a dog that, 00:21:16.855 --> 00:21:20.905 Jill: well, you teach them Actually, what's really interesting about dogs 00:21:20.905 --> 00:21:27.175 is that they are really watching your body language more than anything. 00:21:27.175 --> 00:21:32.335 You could be, you know, be pointing like, you know, go this way and, 00:21:32.335 --> 00:21:34.495 uh, you know, or left or right. 00:21:34.585 --> 00:21:35.965 And, um. 00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:41.050 If your feet are pointed the wrong way, a lot of times they'll follow your feet. 00:21:41.980 --> 00:21:50.710 So it really is this dance of, you know, how am I comm communicating with my dog 00:21:51.010 --> 00:21:53.830 in such a way that it, it understands. 00:21:54.670 --> 00:21:55.990 What I want them to do. 00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:03.070 And, uh, most of the time when, uh, we don't qualify, it's my fault. 00:22:05.020 --> 00:22:09.580 I forgot the course at for an instant and I was supposed to have my feet 00:22:09.580 --> 00:22:13.210 pointing this way, and instead it was pointing at the dog walk. 00:22:13.270 --> 00:22:16.270 And sure enough, the dog took the dog walk and it was my fault. 00:22:18.370 --> 00:22:20.560 Anke: That's interesting because my mind is like, how 00:22:20.560 --> 00:22:22.240 do I teach the dog what to do? 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:23.110 But it's actually. 00:22:23.245 --> 00:22:26.005 Like you are the one who has to memorize the course. 00:22:26.005 --> 00:22:26.545 I know. 00:22:26.545 --> 00:22:26.605 Yeah. 00:22:26.965 --> 00:22:29.755 And so basically the dog will always do the same thing. 00:22:29.755 --> 00:22:32.095 They will follow your guidance. 00:22:32.095 --> 00:22:32.185 Right? 00:22:32.605 --> 00:22:34.555 And then wherever you guide them, they're gonna go. 00:22:35.035 --> 00:22:35.155 Right. 00:22:35.155 --> 00:22:36.610 So do you need to learn the course? 00:22:36.610 --> 00:22:37.090 Basically 00:22:37.295 --> 00:22:40.045 Jill: you have to learn the course, but they also have to have 00:22:40.045 --> 00:22:41.455 the foundation on the equipment. 00:22:41.455 --> 00:22:44.035 'cause it can be dangerous for the dog when they're going up that. 00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:48.400 You know, a-frame or go on across a dog walk, and if they decide to bail, 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:49.810 I mean, it's six feet off the ground. 00:22:50.350 --> 00:22:50.560 Anke: Yeah. 00:22:50.620 --> 00:22:51.070 So 00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:52.990 Jill: you have to teach them the basics. 00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:57.580 You, and you have to teach value because why not go sniff over there in that 00:22:57.580 --> 00:23:01.450 corner where that, you know, ground squirrel was just, uh, digging a hole. 00:23:01.450 --> 00:23:02.020 Right. 00:23:02.395 --> 00:23:08.185 You have to create more value for the obstacle in your relationship than a na 00:23:08.695 --> 00:23:11.755 another potentially natural behavior. 00:23:11.905 --> 00:23:17.095 Um, uh, I was also gonna mention that, um, with this new series that I'm 00:23:17.095 --> 00:23:19.380 working on, um, you know, I don't. 00:23:20.020 --> 00:23:22.240 Really know that much about scent detection. 00:23:22.270 --> 00:23:24.040 Um, so I have two dogs. 00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:28.660 Um, I have, uh, my, uh, dog Charlie who's doing agility. 00:23:28.660 --> 00:23:31.150 We're going to nationals next year at CPE. 00:23:31.150 --> 00:23:31.900 I'm excited. 00:23:32.290 --> 00:23:33.340 We've already qualified. 00:23:33.730 --> 00:23:38.740 And then I have a, a little, um, cattle dog mix who is, uh, agility 00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:43.270 fail because she has, um, luxating patellas her, her knees slip in 00:23:43.270 --> 00:23:44.680 and out, so she couldn't do it. 00:23:45.430 --> 00:23:47.320 And so I put her in nose work. 00:23:48.145 --> 00:23:51.325 About a, a year, almost a year ago, nine months maybe. 00:23:51.655 --> 00:23:55.615 Um, so I'm learning all about nose work and scent detection. 00:23:55.675 --> 00:23:58.675 It's a whole other ball game. 00:23:58.675 --> 00:24:00.145 It's so much fun. 00:24:00.715 --> 00:24:04.435 Um, and, uh, you know, I originally I was gonna do, you know, a couple 00:24:04.435 --> 00:24:08.665 sessions, just learn enough for the book and now she loves it. 00:24:09.370 --> 00:24:10.390 I love it. 00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:11.500 We are in nose work. 00:24:12.625 --> 00:24:13.075 Anke: Love it. 00:24:13.175 --> 00:24:14.115 So how does that work? 00:24:14.230 --> 00:24:16.780 Like if you kind of go to nose work class? 00:24:16.780 --> 00:24:17.560 So what happens? 00:24:18.520 --> 00:24:22.720 Jill: Uh, so they start out teaching or my instructor, there's different 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.500 ways to teach it, but my instructor starts with food and you start putting 00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:32.980 the food in boxes and uh, and then they learn, oh, boxes means food. 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:37.810 And then you slowly transition to putting the, um, food on, you know. 00:24:38.590 --> 00:24:43.510 Tables or chairs or, um, other things. 00:24:43.540 --> 00:24:47.800 And so then they learn, oh, a chair could have something. 00:24:48.250 --> 00:24:54.040 Um, and they, it's really interesting, um, there's like a scent cone and 00:24:54.280 --> 00:24:56.290 different dogs have different strategies. 00:24:56.500 --> 00:25:01.360 Like some dogs will move to the wall to catch the cone and then zero in. 00:25:02.155 --> 00:25:03.895 On where the the treat is. 00:25:04.105 --> 00:25:08.905 Other dogs are just like, you know, all over the place looking super fast. 00:25:09.235 --> 00:25:13.285 Um, my dog, Annie, my instructor, said would be a great bomb detection 00:25:13.285 --> 00:25:16.735 dog because she checks everything. 00:25:20.125 --> 00:25:23.335 She is not gonna let that treat go under. 00:25:23.950 --> 00:25:24.130 Unbound. 00:25:27.670 --> 00:25:28.900 Anke: Oh, that's interesting. 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:29.200 Yeah. 00:25:29.205 --> 00:25:30.675 They're so different, aren't they? 00:25:30.865 --> 00:25:31.155 Yeah. 00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:36.070 I mean, is it like what I would like, what I find sort of most fascinating 00:25:36.070 --> 00:25:40.150 about that nose work where they are like, you know, we can't even perceive most 00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:41.320 of the stuff they're dealing with you. 00:25:43.750 --> 00:25:48.610 Jill: But again, you know, there is some handler involvement in this sport 00:25:48.610 --> 00:25:51.400 because you are watching their behavior. 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:56.140 So she hasn't transitioned to the actual scent discs yet. 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:01.120 Um, but what I am learning is when she's on scent. 00:26:01.870 --> 00:26:05.590 You know, where she's not just like doing a sweep and going, okay, it's 00:26:05.590 --> 00:26:07.450 not here, it's not here, it's not here. 00:26:07.630 --> 00:26:12.430 When she's zeroing in, she has certain behavior patterns and she is one of 00:26:12.430 --> 00:26:14.110 the dogs that will go to the wall. 00:26:14.140 --> 00:26:18.820 You know, some handlers might think, oh, it's, you know, it can't be over there. 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.160 Uh, and will try to direct the dog back. 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.410 No, you wanna let the dog. 00:26:23.935 --> 00:26:27.265 Go to that wall, figure out where it is, and they, and she comes 00:26:27.265 --> 00:26:28.795 straight back and she finds it. 00:26:28.795 --> 00:26:30.295 It's fascinating. 00:26:30.415 --> 00:26:31.855 It's really fascinating. 00:26:32.515 --> 00:26:32.845 Anke: Wow. 00:26:32.845 --> 00:26:36.415 So they have their own little strategy that nobody really teaches them, like 00:26:36.415 --> 00:26:38.245 they kind of figure that out themselves. 00:26:38.665 --> 00:26:39.235 Jill: Correct. 00:26:39.745 --> 00:26:40.165 Anke: Wow. 00:26:40.585 --> 00:26:40.915 Jill: Yeah. 00:26:40.975 --> 00:26:41.185 Yeah. 00:26:41.185 --> 00:26:43.940 Some dogs, um, Annie will hold her breath. 00:26:45.235 --> 00:26:49.525 She huffs, like she's holding her breath so that more air 00:26:49.525 --> 00:26:50.755 is going through her nostrils. 00:26:50.755 --> 00:26:54.385 There are other dogs that pant, pant, pant, they get close to the sand 00:26:54.415 --> 00:26:55.585 and then they close their mouth. 00:26:56.305 --> 00:26:58.585 But she's like, she's driven. 00:26:58.585 --> 00:27:01.165 She's really phenomenal at this sport. 00:27:02.305 --> 00:27:02.815 Wow. 00:27:03.625 --> 00:27:06.535 Anke: So how do you, how did you decide forward? 00:27:06.535 --> 00:27:08.575 Like, well, let's try nose work, you know? 00:27:08.725 --> 00:27:08.935 Okay. 00:27:08.935 --> 00:27:10.225 She couldn't do agility. 00:27:10.780 --> 00:27:15.310 You know, was it just like, oh, I've heard of it and it sounds 00:27:15.310 --> 00:27:17.110 interesting, or, or was there 00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:24.400 Jill: Well, she has a interesting, um, dog training experience. 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.680 So, you know, of course we started out in obedience just to get her foundation. 00:27:30.070 --> 00:27:30.610 Um. 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.670 You know, skills, you know, I do that with all my dogs. 00:27:34.060 --> 00:27:38.320 Um, and then, you know, we did do agility until I figured out. 00:27:38.320 --> 00:27:43.030 So she was doing agility for, I don't know, six months, maybe just foundation 00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:45.250 until I found out something was wrong. 00:27:45.670 --> 00:27:52.510 And then we, um, we went into, um, barn hunt, which is where the 00:27:52.510 --> 00:27:54.790 dogs find the rats and the tubes. 00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:00.010 She was more interested in jumping on top of the hay bales than looking 00:28:00.010 --> 00:28:05.350 for the, I call her mountain goat Annie, because she loves to jump up 00:28:05.350 --> 00:28:06.880 on top of things and look around. 00:28:07.420 --> 00:28:07.960 Anke: Oh, that's funny. 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:08.680 Mine does that. 00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:09.610 My big one does that. 00:28:10.420 --> 00:28:13.990 Jill: Yeah, so that was like, eh, maybe this isn't her sport. 00:28:13.990 --> 00:28:16.060 So then I took her to circus school. 00:28:19.135 --> 00:28:25.195 To jump through hoops and, you know, play bow and you know, sit up pretty, 00:28:25.195 --> 00:28:26.905 sit pretty and all this other stuff. 00:28:26.965 --> 00:28:31.045 And she was good at it, but I was starting to get a little nervous because 00:28:31.045 --> 00:28:34.435 of the jumping and also COVID hit. 00:28:34.975 --> 00:28:40.165 And uh, so, um, so we stopped doing that and then knows where 00:28:40.165 --> 00:28:44.455 came about because of the book I'm writing and this is her sport. 00:28:44.980 --> 00:28:49.300 You know, I finally found her sport that, you know, she excels at. 00:28:49.300 --> 00:28:50.680 She loves it. 00:28:50.800 --> 00:28:54.790 She's kind of a shy dog, but her tail is up and wagon when we're doing, 00:28:54.820 --> 00:28:56.860 doing those work, she loves it. 00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:01.600 So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's good to experiment with your dog to 00:29:01.600 --> 00:29:05.170 see what their particular passion is. 00:29:05.860 --> 00:29:08.770 Anke: I think that's so important to also recognize, you know. 00:29:12.565 --> 00:29:15.445 At least in my case, you know, these are like my fault. 00:29:15.505 --> 00:29:20.665 The two of them I've got, the other two have passed and I didn't like before. 00:29:20.665 --> 00:29:21.620 I had more than one dog. 00:29:22.510 --> 00:29:22.930 At the time. 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:27.550 At the time, I never realized how different they were individually. 00:29:28.150 --> 00:29:30.940 You know, there was almost like, oh, dogs like this and dogs like that. 00:29:30.940 --> 00:29:35.740 And what I did not realize that they can grow up in the same household, 00:29:36.340 --> 00:29:37.930 you know, and still be like. 00:29:38.415 --> 00:29:40.425 Just like people vastly different. 00:29:40.935 --> 00:29:41.085 Yeah. 00:29:41.085 --> 00:29:47.265 You know, and to have different, different likes and dislikes and talents, and so 00:29:47.325 --> 00:29:51.765 to actually take the time also to sort of look around and try different things 00:29:52.035 --> 00:29:53.955 until you find the thing where go, yeah. 00:29:53.955 --> 00:29:54.435 That's it. 00:29:54.495 --> 00:29:55.695 Like, that's her favorite. 00:29:55.695 --> 00:29:56.835 And, and we're good with that. 00:29:56.835 --> 00:29:57.645 I just love that. 00:29:58.125 --> 00:29:58.365 Yeah. 00:29:58.365 --> 00:29:59.445 That's, that's fabulous. 00:29:59.445 --> 00:29:59.685 Yeah. 00:30:00.070 --> 00:30:04.480 Jill: One of the things that's so coincidental and like a one in a million 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:06.790 thing that you could never pre predict. 00:30:07.210 --> 00:30:11.080 So, uh, you know, I started Annie in nose work, um, I think 00:30:11.080 --> 00:30:12.370 it was like last November. 00:30:12.820 --> 00:30:18.760 Um, and uh, my instructor said, oh, um, she had looked me up and saw 00:30:18.760 --> 00:30:21.100 that I wrote books about Doberman's. 00:30:21.550 --> 00:30:25.090 And she goes, says, oh, well there's gonna be a Doberman in this class. 00:30:25.105 --> 00:30:27.415 And there's five people in this class. 00:30:27.745 --> 00:30:28.975 And she goes, you probably know them. 00:30:28.975 --> 00:30:34.135 And I said, no, I really just kind of know Ruby and you know, a few other dogs. 00:30:34.135 --> 00:30:36.565 You know, it's, it's a big area. 00:30:36.595 --> 00:30:37.015 Yeah. 00:30:37.585 --> 00:30:41.665 And lo and behold, it was Charles Ruby's owner with his new dog. 00:30:42.805 --> 00:30:45.835 I could, I was flabbergasted. 00:30:45.925 --> 00:30:48.145 I, I mean, what are the odds? 00:30:48.385 --> 00:30:49.315 Anke: That's incredible. 00:30:49.810 --> 00:30:54.640 Jill: And he lives in, um, in a, a city that's, uh, you know, it's probably a 00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:58.840 good half hour, 45 minute drive for him. 00:30:59.320 --> 00:31:02.350 So he's not even that close to the location. 00:31:02.620 --> 00:31:06.550 I mean, it was just like, you know, the world wants me to write this 00:31:06.550 --> 00:31:08.170 book about a do with a Doberman. 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:09.010 Anke: I think so. 00:31:09.670 --> 00:31:12.130 And you've got your new model then, so because he, he's 00:31:12.130 --> 00:31:13.360 got another DOPA man, right. 00:31:13.870 --> 00:31:14.500 Jill: Yeah. 00:31:14.500 --> 00:31:14.770 Oh, that's funny. 00:31:14.800 --> 00:31:19.390 Um, I don't know that I'm going to use Bruce because he is a male and my, my, 00:31:19.390 --> 00:31:21.730 um, my dog protagonist is a female. 00:31:22.150 --> 00:31:24.910 Um, but, uh, you know, you never know. 00:31:24.910 --> 00:31:25.000 Well. 00:31:28.435 --> 00:31:28.675 Yeah. 00:31:28.675 --> 00:31:34.945 And so, uh, so Bruce, um, it's now Ruby, Doobie Doo, and Bruce too is his handle. 00:31:35.245 --> 00:31:40.675 Um, because Ruby still, you know, she was so beloved when she passed pe 00:31:40.705 --> 00:31:47.185 People from all over the world, Europe all over the place, sent condolences. 00:31:47.425 --> 00:31:53.335 I did a story on, um, on Ruby when she, uh, when she passed, um. 00:31:53.710 --> 00:31:58.210 And, uh, she did on some doberman platforms and just, I mean, the 00:31:58.270 --> 00:32:00.700 response, she was just very special. 00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.300 Bruce is great too, but there was something about Ruby. 00:32:04.360 --> 00:32:05.110 There really was. 00:32:05.110 --> 00:32:05.170 Yeah, 00:32:05.950 --> 00:32:09.250 Anke: there's like, there's some dogs, like there's, there's an, there's 00:32:09.250 --> 00:32:12.730 an in like, I don't know where, I think the guy's on TikTok, Instagram, 00:32:12.730 --> 00:32:19.150 whatever, but he had this big chunky pity, you know, and, and I like I 00:32:19.150 --> 00:32:22.180 cried wise out when that dog crossed away suddenly, you know, it's like. 00:32:23.155 --> 00:32:23.605 What is it? 00:32:24.295 --> 00:32:28.225 You know, I, I don't even, I've not even met the dog kind of thing, you know, but 00:32:28.225 --> 00:32:32.395 it's like, you, you get so familiar and he was such a, he, there was also this idea 00:32:32.395 --> 00:32:36.805 that, you know, like real sort of advocacy for the breed because, you know, there 00:32:36.805 --> 00:32:41.875 was this tough looking guy with tattoos and, and this big pitfall with his always 00:32:41.875 --> 00:32:43.765 had his hat on the head, on his shoulder. 00:32:44.005 --> 00:32:48.655 But like, there was so, like both of them were so gentle. 00:32:49.435 --> 00:32:52.525 Especially with each other, you know, like, and you could really like it. 00:32:52.585 --> 00:32:56.065 It shifts people's pers perspective, you know? 00:32:56.065 --> 00:32:58.855 And he passed away suddenly and it was just like, oh my God. 00:32:58.855 --> 00:33:02.125 You know, it really, it's, it's, it's incredible how it hits you, 00:33:02.545 --> 00:33:06.145 you know, even if it's like a dog or somebody else's dog that you just 00:33:06.145 --> 00:33:07.555 know from social media, you know? 00:33:07.975 --> 00:33:08.335 Yeah. 00:33:08.335 --> 00:33:12.925 But there are some dogs who just have that charisma that really, you know, 00:33:13.075 --> 00:33:15.025 catches and takes people along For sure. 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:18.340 Jill: My heart was broken when Ruby passed. 00:33:18.340 --> 00:33:19.810 She was, she was special. 00:33:19.930 --> 00:33:20.320 She really 00:33:21.070 --> 00:33:21.220 Anke: was. 00:33:21.280 --> 00:33:21.760 Jill: Yeah. 00:33:21.760 --> 00:33:21.761 Yeah. 00:33:22.330 --> 00:33:22.690 Anke: Boy. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:26.950 So where can people, you know, find out more when the new book's coming 00:33:26.950 --> 00:33:28.660 out and get the books you've got? 00:33:28.660 --> 00:33:32.260 So obviously we're gonna pop that on the show notes and, you know, and have 00:33:32.260 --> 00:33:33.670 pictures of the book and all of that. 00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:36.580 So, but, uh, let people know the ones who already do this thing. 00:33:37.870 --> 00:33:42.880 Jill: Uh, so you can reach me on www.jillhedgecock.com. 00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:44.320 Anke: Awesome. 00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:45.430 Well, easy, 00:33:46.660 --> 00:33:46.810 Jill: easy. 00:33:46.810 --> 00:33:47.290 Yeah. 00:33:47.560 --> 00:33:47.890 Yeah. 00:33:47.890 --> 00:33:52.270 And on the site you can see all the, the books that I've, um, I've written so. 00:33:53.605 --> 00:33:53.935 Well, 00:33:54.205 --> 00:34:00.085 Anke: then I hope that you are gonna write many more in, in this series or 00:34:00.085 --> 00:34:05.515 other series because I think it's, it's just a beautiful combination of wrapping, 00:34:05.695 --> 00:34:11.935 wrapping some valuable teaching into, into a format that's fun and easy to digest. 00:34:12.295 --> 00:34:12.625 Yeah. 00:34:12.625 --> 00:34:14.005 So thank you so much for coming. 00:34:14.395 --> 00:34:14.695 Absolutely. 00:34:14.695 --> 00:34:15.955 Oh, thank you for having me. 00:34:16.315 --> 00:34:16.645 Awesome. 00:34:16.705 --> 00:34:16.825 Thank. 00:34:17.425 --> 00:34:18.655 Thanks so much for listening. 00:34:19.175 --> 00:34:23.475 If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe, and leave a review so 00:34:23.575 --> 00:34:25.355 other dog lovers can find the show. 00:34:26.145 --> 00:34:29.635 If you haven't already, head over to soul touched by dogs. 00:34:30.065 --> 00:34:35.635 com and sign up for weekly doggy cuteness tips, recommendations, and personal 00:34:35.735 --> 00:34:38.105 stories to warm your dog loving heart. 00:34:38.106 --> 00:34:41.835 And if you know a pawsome human you think I should interview, 00:34:42.255 --> 00:34:43.395 I'd love an introduction. 00:34:43.875 --> 00:34:45.705 Email me at Anke. 00:34:45.975 --> 00:34:50.210 That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.