Welcome to the Soul Touched by Dogs Podcast, the show for dog lovers who
see dogs not as toys or tools, but wise souls worth our respect and care.
I'm an Herrmann, and I'm your host.
I talk to poor some humans, people who do great work for dogs and their people.
So come and join us for today's conversation.
Anke: Hello and welcome, Jill.
I'm super delighted to have you here.
Jill: Thank you.
I'm excited to be here.
Anke: Awesome.
Like let's start, as we always start, let's let people know where
in this lovely world you're based and what's your business with dogs.
Jill: So I am based in the East San Francisco Bay in California.
And I was basically born in love with animals.
Aw.
So, um, but especially dogs.
And, uh, so, um, I have, uh.
Stewarded, uh, 10 dogs of my own.
I currently have two.
And, um, I've fostered probably just as many.
And, um, I, I use the word steward because, um, you know,
we don't really own them.
They are their own personalities.
Um, but they give to us so freely.
And, um, I have trained, uh, two dogs through, um, national, um,
uh, championships and, uh, in agility and, um, it, I love agility.
Agility is just the best because the dogs are off leash.
They can do whatever they want and they choose.
Two, try to please you.
And the thing that most amazes me about dogs is that they choose
humans over their own species.
And I don't know of any other species that does that.
Um, it really is truly a remarkable bond.
And, um, so it's, it's, it was sort of, of course I was going to, um.
Put my, our author Life in with Dogs.
So I have written three books, uh, with dogs as a main character.
And, um, my goal is to, uh.
Um, educate through entertainment.
And so, um, I have these fun books.
I have a series of three and, um, they each feature, uh, a dog that
sees ghosts and, um, my journey.
So this is, um, this is the first in the series.
This is, um, between shadows, eyes, and um.
My journey, uh, to how I wanted to educate was kind of convoluted.
So I started out, um, with the dog being a border collie.
A mix, which was totally, um, fashioned over my own dog who was a foster fail.
It was the only, my only foster fail.
Um, but during the process of the writing, I started, uh, writing a, um.
A dog rescue column for a local paper.
And, uh, my publisher, um, had a friend who had this doberman that, um, had a
crazy amount of Instagram followers.
Um, at the time there were like over 200,000.
Um, but she rocketed, um, even during the course of, of the three
books that I've written, um, to over 500,000 plus, she had, um, 1.6
million TikTok followers.
So she became this ambassador for the Doberman Species.
And I started to think, you know, how can I promote?
Dogs in my book and I thought, well, you know, Dobermans have
gotten a really, really bad rap.
And, um, so I, I contacted the owner, um, Charles Lindsay of um, Ruby.
This is Ruby.
Um, her Instagram handle is Ruby Dooby Doo.
And, um, she, um.
Sh it, it, it, my, my original dog was a, he, I had to make it a, she
or I didn't have to, but I, I wanted to be as close to Ruby as possible.
And so in the, the, at the end of the first book, um, just a little bit about
the book, it's, it really is entertaining.
It's a suspense novel.
My protagonist is a teen girl who's been, um, uh, orphaned and she
rescues this doberman and it turns out the Doberman can see ghosts.
And when she puts her fingers between the dog's eyes like
this, she can see the ghost too.
And she's trying to keep it quiet that she's living on her own.
Um, and the dog's barking and she's getting notices from
complaints from the neighbors.
So she takes the dog to an animal behaviorist.
And the animal behaviorist has a history with the ghost in our house.
So there's all this tension.
We don't really know what people's motivations are, and she is, you
know, constantly being, um, reassured by her dog, who is sweet Doberman's
can be very, very, very sweet.
And I think people don't realize that.
And so in this book, I'm really trying to de-stigmatize the breed.
Um, and uh, so that was kind of my goal for the first book.
Then in the second book, um, this is, uh.
From shadow's perspective and, um, she has been outed.
She, um, she now lives, um, part-time next door with her neighbor, uh,
which allows her to keep, um, the dog.
Um, and she's back in high school.
She was trying to, you know, do crazy odd jobs.
You know, slip under the wire.
She really didn't want to go into foster care, but she's been outage.
She's back into a normal teen life.
She takes her dog to, um, an art class and uh, the dog is barking
and she of course puts her fingers between the eyes and sees there's
this little ghost, toddler boy in the.
In the room.
And so she starts being an amateur sleuth.
What happened to this little boy?
It gets very suspenseful.
It happens on Halloween night, and of course the, the animal behaviorist
has some a part in this as well.
Um, and in this book, um, I really, um, wanted to make people
think about, um, what their.
Um, living situation is and is a high energy breed appropriate for them.
Um, you know, putting a doberman in a crate for eight hours while you're,
um, while you're working is probably not the best life for that dog.
Um, but, you know, maybe a small dog is more appropriate for that situation.
So I really kind of, uh, go through, you know.
Being a responsible, um, steward and finding the I love about Right.
Um, and then in the last book, um, the sad thing, this is,
um, uh, I'm terrible at this.
There we go.
Um.
This book, um, uh, my protagonist is exploring her roots, um, and her
mother, uh, comes and visits as a ghost.
Um, so she's, uh, really grappling with, um, family and,
um, and in, in, in the, um.
Chaos of an earthquake.
Um, so she has, again, interactions with the infamous Dr.
Griffin, uh, the behaviorist.
And, uh, again, a lot of suspense, a lot of, um, a lot of emotion
about family and what family means.
And of course.
Shadow in every book is sweet.
And, uh, in particular in this book, she saves the day.
Oh,
Anke: got a love book, book where the dog saves the day.
Yeah.
Jill: Um, and then at the, at, in the end of the book, I really talk about,
um, unfortunately, um, during the writing of this book, Ruby passed away
from DCM, which is a heart condition.
Um.
I can't remember what the, um, acronym stands for, but a lot of large breeds have
this, and Dobermans in particular have this, um, condition and it's, it's awful.
Um, they can literally be out chasing the ball and fall over dead.
I.
Oh.
Um, and, uh, Ruby had an early diagnosis and that enabled, um, Charles, her, his,
her owner to, um, manage the disease and, and really prolong her life.
And so in the back of this book, I talk about DCM and I talk about early
warning signs so that people can know.
Um, what to look for, what to watch for, and get the dog to the vet immediately
if they start seeing symptoms.
Hmm.
And I can actually tell you some of the symptoms.
I looked them down.
Um, so some of the early symptoms are, um, uh, decreased tolerance to
exercise, um, heart murmurs and um.
Irregular heart rhythms.
Um, and then as the disease progresses, they might start coughing.
They might stop eating as much.
Um, their gums get pale, they get, can get abdominal swelling.
It can be difficult for them to rise through their feet.
And then in, in.
Severe cases, um, they might start panting, um, their tongues can
turn blue and they start to drool.
Um, at that point it is imperative to get the dog to a vet.
Um, but really, um, you know, it, it's a terrible disease.
It can happen, you know, in the snap of a finger and you
don't even know the dog's sick.
So, you know.
People should really keep their eyes open.
Anke: Yeah, for sure, for
Jill: sure.
Anke: No, I love that.
And I love the whole idea of a serious, and so were you like a writer before
you started, like, you know, focusing on dogs or like how, how did it occur to
you to, you know, package those lessons and those goals that you mentioned in?
Because you could have written like an educational kind of nonfiction.
Book.
Right, right.
So, but you chose to wrap it into.
Into, you know, fiction.
And that's not just a decision.
Like there needs to be a skill behind that.
Like, so I can't just go, I was like, oh yeah, let me just write a novel.
Like, you need to understand structure and character development and have
a plot and, and all these things.
So did you know all that before or, or which, which way around did it go?
Jill: So, I actually have a science background.
I, uh, have a master's degree in environmental management and a
bachelor's in biological science.
And, um, my first book, which still is not published, I, uh, I wanted to
write about environmental disasters.
And I started out with the idea of writing, you know, a science based book.
And my husband said to me, said, you know, you're kind of preaching to the choir.
Why don't you.
You know, do this idea of, of entertaining, uh, but
still educating people.
And it just like clicked with me.
So, of course, I did not know how to write a novel, so I went to classes and
I, uh, studied and, and did all that.
And, uh, and so my first book was, um, was based on, uh, the introduction of
the mosquito in Hawaii in ancient times.
And I do plan to go back to it.
It's just other things got in the way.
Um, and uh, the, my first published book was I went to,
um, Africa on an African Safari.
And I learned that three rhinos were being killed every day for
their horns, and then it was like.
I have to do something about this.
So I, I wrote a book again, it's a, a, a young protagonist who goes on safari.
She's dealing with relationship problems with her dad, and then she gets lost in
the bush surrounded by fire and between rhino poachers and two endangered rhinos.
So I, I love writing suspense.
I love writing.
Um.
Uh, about animals and I also, it's
Anke: a cool combination.
I really love this idea, you know, because to, because I think we do
learn best through stories, right?
And when we can really identify with, with, uh, with the character
and, you know, but that's.
I love that.
Jill: Well, if you think about it, traditionally that's what humans did.
They sat around the campfire and they told stories.
They told folklore, they told things to, you know, keep the kids in line.
You know, the boogey man's gonna come get you.
Um, and so to put it in book form, it just seemed like, you know, my husband
had the idea, but I just like ran with it because I thought it was brilliant.
Anke: No, I agree.
I agree.
Totally agree.
So what, do you know what your, like is your typical reader like a teenager, like
identifying kind of, or is it older people or do you, what do you like, do you know?
Jill: It's, it's mostly older people.
Uh, you know, I think it's a sort of a misnomer that young adult books are for
teenagers because, uh, a young adult book can deal with very sophisticated issues.
Um.
And my reader is someone who likes to, you know, reengage in that time
in your life, which is so formative.
Right.
And a lot of adults, I'd say the majority of young adult readers are adults.
Um, so yeah, my, uh, a lot of my, uh, you know, of course
I do have some teen readers.
Um.
But the focus, especially with the Safari books, I mean, a lot of people
read the, uh, I have two in that series.
Um, the other one's called the, well, the first is Rhino in the Room, and
the second is Queen of the Rhino.
Um, and, um, people that are going on Safari because the other, my other goal.
With those books was to, um, to educate or to basically create the
experience of a safari for people who can't go there for whatever reason.
If it's, if it's financial or, um.
Health reasons or, or whatever.
I really thought it was such a magical experience and I wanted to share that.
Um, in way in the second book, queen of the Rhino, there's a
doberman that has a cameo in there.
I have to put those dogs in there.
Anke: Fair enough.
I think think you're totally right.
So when you.
Always fascinated about the book writing, like, so when you have an idea for a
new project, like where do you start?
In your mind?
Do you start with like, okay, here's the core message I wanna
bring across, or do you have first.
An idea or a spark for a storyline and then pull out the, the lesson or the,
the moral of the story afterwards.
Jill: You know, it really is a process.
Um, so usually the idea comes to me, um, first and, and usually
like, um, the current, one of the current projects I'm working on
is, again, a doberman, uh, is my.
My, my dog breed, just because I really wanna promote the, the breed.
Um, and I have a lot of Doberman, uh, followers.
People don't have Dobermans.
Um, but, um, this Doberman is, uh, a scent detection dog.
Uh, and, uh, it has learned, she has learned to identify,
um, a diseased beehives.
And so I'm, I am, and I did not know this at the time when I first started
writing it again, it's a process, but, uh, 90% of the USBs come into California
in February to help pollinate the, um, almond trees in the Central Valley.
And so what would happen if a lot of those hives started to collapse?
And so, you know, I, I, I, I, I took that idea and I'm running with it.
So, um, different, different, uh, main character.
This actually is a, an adult rather than a young adult.
Um, she's in a, a college, uh, and, uh, again, suspenseful.
You don't quite know what's going on,
Anke: so you have that idea and then you develop the characters and
the plot and all of that around it.
Jill: I'm very plot driven for sure.
Anke: Yeah.
Jill: Yeah.
And then, you know, of course the message, you know, is climate change,
pesticide use, you know, getting into my environmental roots here.
Anke: I was just thinking, see, I always find there's a really magic.
Spot when sort of different passions merge and there's this, there's
this spot where they overlap, where all the pieces come together.
Right.
And it's all kind of, yeah.
I think that's a very, um, powerful place, place to be and place to create from, you
know, because yeah, there's just something about that when it's not just like, oh,
it's the dogs, or it's the science, or it's the, you know, like, it's when.
There's a place, and I, I feel that you found that medium where you have that
artistic expression, you get to bring scientists there, and you work, you get
to bring the love for the dogs in and, or, you know, animals in, in general.
It's, um, yeah, it's, it's a really, really powerful combination.
Jill: And in the, um, in this book, um.
I keep doing this wrong from perspective.
Um, I actually snuck in, um, agility.
Anke: Ah, I was gonna ask you about that.
I was gonna ask you about it.
The thing is like, I love watching it, like, and I love watching.
Um, like there's really two extremes that I love watching.
It's like the winners.
Know, and I remember there was some, like a, a, a dog training, a couple, like they
basically had, you know, had a membership that I was a part of and she went on and
took her that little cocker that I kind of knew from all the lessons because she,
he was always the Guinea pig all there.
Like, you know, the, it was all very, like, it was all game space.
It was literally you play with your dog and the dog learns
stuff in, in the process, right?
And so there was all, all.
Ated something.
She would use that little, and then he still, and still learning himself.
She went him.
And she won the thing.
Like, oh, I was like, oh my God.
Blitz the thing.
You know?
And it felt as if, right?
And then on the other hand, there's like, who's kind of like,
yeah, well I couldn't be asked.
Like, I'm just gonna do, I'm just gonna take off the poles here and I'm just
gonna sit here and do whatever I want.
Like, like these kind of like fails or these really big dogs who just
kind like, you know, and I just think.
And if there's one question that always shoots to my mind is
like, how does one teach this?
You know, because I can have a little agility course in my backyard.
And then the dog will know these elements and these tunnels and
you know, but then they go to a competition and it's all different.
Like, how, how do you teach a dog that,
Jill: well, you teach them Actually, what's really interesting about dogs
is that they are really watching your body language more than anything.
You could be, you know, be pointing like, you know, go this way and,
uh, you know, or left or right.
And, um.
If your feet are pointed the wrong way, a lot of times they'll follow your feet.
So it really is this dance of, you know, how am I comm communicating with my dog
in such a way that it, it understands.
What I want them to do.
And, uh, most of the time when, uh, we don't qualify, it's my fault.
I forgot the course at for an instant and I was supposed to have my feet
pointing this way, and instead it was pointing at the dog walk.
And sure enough, the dog took the dog walk and it was my fault.
Anke: That's interesting because my mind is like, how
do I teach the dog what to do?
But it's actually.
Like you are the one who has to memorize the course.
I know.
Yeah.
And so basically the dog will always do the same thing.
They will follow your guidance.
Right?
And then wherever you guide them, they're gonna go.
Right.
So do you need to learn the course?
Basically
Jill: you have to learn the course, but they also have to have
the foundation on the equipment.
'cause it can be dangerous for the dog when they're going up that.
You know, a-frame or go on across a dog walk, and if they decide to bail,
I mean, it's six feet off the ground.
Anke: Yeah.
So
Jill: you have to teach them the basics.
You, and you have to teach value because why not go sniff over there in that
corner where that, you know, ground squirrel was just, uh, digging a hole.
Right.
You have to create more value for the obstacle in your relationship than a na
another potentially natural behavior.
Um, uh, I was also gonna mention that, um, with this new series that I'm
working on, um, you know, I don't.
Really know that much about scent detection.
Um, so I have two dogs.
Um, I have, uh, my, uh, dog Charlie who's doing agility.
We're going to nationals next year at CPE.
I'm excited.
We've already qualified.
And then I have a, a little, um, cattle dog mix who is, uh, agility
fail because she has, um, luxating patellas her, her knees slip in
and out, so she couldn't do it.
And so I put her in nose work.
About a, a year, almost a year ago, nine months maybe.
Um, so I'm learning all about nose work and scent detection.
It's a whole other ball game.
It's so much fun.
Um, and, uh, you know, I originally I was gonna do, you know, a couple
sessions, just learn enough for the book and now she loves it.
I love it.
We are in nose work.
Anke: Love it.
So how does that work?
Like if you kind of go to nose work class?
So what happens?
Jill: Uh, so they start out teaching or my instructor, there's different
ways to teach it, but my instructor starts with food and you start putting
the food in boxes and uh, and then they learn, oh, boxes means food.
And then you slowly transition to putting the, um, food on, you know.
Tables or chairs or, um, other things.
And so then they learn, oh, a chair could have something.
Um, and they, it's really interesting, um, there's like a scent cone and
different dogs have different strategies.
Like some dogs will move to the wall to catch the cone and then zero in.
On where the the treat is.
Other dogs are just like, you know, all over the place looking super fast.
Um, my dog, Annie, my instructor, said would be a great bomb detection
dog because she checks everything.
She is not gonna let that treat go under.
Unbound.
Anke: Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah.
They're so different, aren't they?
Yeah.
I mean, is it like what I would like, what I find sort of most fascinating
about that nose work where they are like, you know, we can't even perceive most
of the stuff they're dealing with you.
Jill: But again, you know, there is some handler involvement in this sport
because you are watching their behavior.
So she hasn't transitioned to the actual scent discs yet.
Um, but what I am learning is when she's on scent.
You know, where she's not just like doing a sweep and going, okay, it's
not here, it's not here, it's not here.
When she's zeroing in, she has certain behavior patterns and she is one of
the dogs that will go to the wall.
You know, some handlers might think, oh, it's, you know, it can't be over there.
Uh, and will try to direct the dog back.
No, you wanna let the dog.
Go to that wall, figure out where it is, and they, and she comes
straight back and she finds it.
It's fascinating.
It's really fascinating.
Anke: Wow.
So they have their own little strategy that nobody really teaches them, like
they kind of figure that out themselves.
Jill: Correct.
Anke: Wow.
Jill: Yeah.
Yeah.
Some dogs, um, Annie will hold her breath.
She huffs, like she's holding her breath so that more air
is going through her nostrils.
There are other dogs that pant, pant, pant, they get close to the sand
and then they close their mouth.
But she's like, she's driven.
She's really phenomenal at this sport.
Wow.
Anke: So how do you, how did you decide forward?
Like, well, let's try nose work, you know?
Okay.
She couldn't do agility.
You know, was it just like, oh, I've heard of it and it sounds
interesting, or, or was there
Jill: Well, she has a interesting, um, dog training experience.
So, you know, of course we started out in obedience just to get her foundation.
Um.
You know, skills, you know, I do that with all my dogs.
Um, and then, you know, we did do agility until I figured out.
So she was doing agility for, I don't know, six months, maybe just foundation
until I found out something was wrong.
And then we, um, we went into, um, barn hunt, which is where the
dogs find the rats and the tubes.
She was more interested in jumping on top of the hay bales than looking
for the, I call her mountain goat Annie, because she loves to jump up
on top of things and look around.
Anke: Oh, that's funny.
Mine does that.
My big one does that.
Jill: Yeah, so that was like, eh, maybe this isn't her sport.
So then I took her to circus school.
To jump through hoops and, you know, play bow and you know, sit up pretty,
sit pretty and all this other stuff.
And she was good at it, but I was starting to get a little nervous because
of the jumping and also COVID hit.
And uh, so, um, so we stopped doing that and then knows where
came about because of the book I'm writing and this is her sport.
You know, I finally found her sport that, you know, she excels at.
She loves it.
She's kind of a shy dog, but her tail is up and wagon when we're doing,
doing those work, she loves it.
So, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's good to experiment with your dog to
see what their particular passion is.
Anke: I think that's so important to also recognize, you know.
At least in my case, you know, these are like my fault.
The two of them I've got, the other two have passed and I didn't like before.
I had more than one dog.
At the time.
At the time, I never realized how different they were individually.
You know, there was almost like, oh, dogs like this and dogs like that.
And what I did not realize that they can grow up in the same household,
you know, and still be like.
Just like people vastly different.
Yeah.
You know, and to have different, different likes and dislikes and talents, and so
to actually take the time also to sort of look around and try different things
until you find the thing where go, yeah.
That's it.
Like, that's her favorite.
And, and we're good with that.
I just love that.
Yeah.
That's, that's fabulous.
Yeah.
Jill: One of the things that's so coincidental and like a one in a million
thing that you could never pre predict.
So, uh, you know, I started Annie in nose work, um, I think
it was like last November.
Um, and uh, my instructor said, oh, um, she had looked me up and saw
that I wrote books about Doberman's.
And she goes, says, oh, well there's gonna be a Doberman in this class.
And there's five people in this class.
And she goes, you probably know them.
And I said, no, I really just kind of know Ruby and you know, a few other dogs.
You know, it's, it's a big area.
Yeah.
And lo and behold, it was Charles Ruby's owner with his new dog.
I could, I was flabbergasted.
I, I mean, what are the odds?
Anke: That's incredible.
Jill: And he lives in, um, in a, a city that's, uh, you know, it's probably a
good half hour, 45 minute drive for him.
So he's not even that close to the location.
I mean, it was just like, you know, the world wants me to write this
book about a do with a Doberman.
Anke: I think so.
And you've got your new model then, so because he, he's
got another DOPA man, right.
Jill: Yeah.
Oh, that's funny.
Um, I don't know that I'm going to use Bruce because he is a male and my, my,
um, my dog protagonist is a female.
Um, but, uh, you know, you never know.
Well.
Yeah.
And so, uh, so Bruce, um, it's now Ruby, Doobie Doo, and Bruce too is his handle.
Um, because Ruby still, you know, she was so beloved when she passed pe
People from all over the world, Europe all over the place, sent condolences.
I did a story on, um, on Ruby when she, uh, when she passed, um.
And, uh, she did on some doberman platforms and just, I mean, the
response, she was just very special.
Bruce is great too, but there was something about Ruby.
There really was.
Yeah,
Anke: there's like, there's some dogs, like there's, there's an, there's
an in like, I don't know where, I think the guy's on TikTok, Instagram,
whatever, but he had this big chunky pity, you know, and, and I like I
cried wise out when that dog crossed away suddenly, you know, it's like.
What is it?
You know, I, I don't even, I've not even met the dog kind of thing, you know, but
it's like, you, you get so familiar and he was such a, he, there was also this idea
that, you know, like real sort of advocacy for the breed because, you know, there
was this tough looking guy with tattoos and, and this big pitfall with his always
had his hat on the head, on his shoulder.
But like, there was so, like both of them were so gentle.
Especially with each other, you know, like, and you could really like it.
It shifts people's pers perspective, you know?
And he passed away suddenly and it was just like, oh my God.
You know, it really, it's, it's, it's incredible how it hits you,
you know, even if it's like a dog or somebody else's dog that you just
know from social media, you know?
Yeah.
But there are some dogs who just have that charisma that really, you know,
catches and takes people along For sure.
Jill: My heart was broken when Ruby passed.
She was, she was special.
She really
Anke: was.
Jill: Yeah.
Yeah.
Anke: Boy.
So where can people, you know, find out more when the new book's coming
out and get the books you've got?
So obviously we're gonna pop that on the show notes and, you know, and have
pictures of the book and all of that.
So, but, uh, let people know the ones who already do this thing.
Jill: Uh, so you can reach me on www.jillhedgecock.com.
Anke: Awesome.
Well, easy,
Jill: easy.
Yeah.
And on the site you can see all the, the books that I've, um, I've written so.
Well,
Anke: then I hope that you are gonna write many more in, in this series or
other series because I think it's, it's just a beautiful combination of wrapping,
wrapping some valuable teaching into, into a format that's fun and easy to digest.
Yeah.
So thank you so much for coming.
Absolutely.
Oh, thank you for having me.
Awesome.
Thank.
Thanks so much for listening.
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That's A N k E at Soul touched by dogs.com.