Travis Bader: For over 30 years, I've been a part of this industry.
I've seen its highs and its lows, its triumphs and its challenges.
But if there's one enemy we face that's greater than any government
regulation or policy, it's apathy.
The quiet killer of our rights and freedoms is not the loud
actions of those against us.
It's the silence of those who claim to stand with us, but fail to act.
Time and again, I've seen it.
People want to complain, but hesitate to take action.
They want to be led to be told what to do or worse.
They wait for someone else to fight their battles.
My friends that waiting will cost us everything.
What can you do a lot?
Let me be blunt.
The fight for our rights is not someone else's responsibility.
It's yours.
It's ours.
And if we sit back, if we point fingers or wait for someone to
save us, We'll lose more than our property, our jobs, or our businesses.
We'll lose the belief that we have the power to change anything at all.
This is not a time for excuses.
It is a time for action.
No one is coming to rescue us.
No one will hand us back what we've lost.
But together, we can do what must be done.
If we stop waiting and start moving.
Each one of you has a voice.
Use it.
Each one of you has a vote.
Cast it.
Each one of you is a circle of influence.
Engage it.
Stop waiting for permission to act and start realizing that change
begins when you take the first step.
No step is too small.
No action too insignificant.
Do not tell me it's too late.
Don't tell me it's too hard.
Because I'm standing here 30 years deep into this fight, telling
you that it's worth every effort.
If I can keep going, so can you.
And if we all take responsibility, if we all step up, there is no
force strong enough to silence us.
So I say, rise up.
Take back your agency.
Take back your power.
Take back the belief that your actions matter.
Because they do.
Together, we're a force that cannot be ignored.
But only if we act and act now, but today be the day you choose to stop waiting
and start building the future you want.
The fight is ours to win, but only if we're willing to fight it.
Okay.
I'm sitting down with Daniel Fritter of caliber magazine, Daniel.
It's really good to see you again.
Daniel Fritter: Wish it was under different circumstances.
Travis Bader: Yes.
Why is it we get together when the shit hits the fan, so to speak.
Daniel Fritter: Cause nothing good has happened for the last
few years of your gun owner.
It's, uh, we haven't had a good news story in quite a while,
so it's getting a bit tiring.
Um, I haven't had a huge amount of sleep obviously, but, uh,
yeah, it's, it's not great.
So.
Travis Bader: You were the first one that I saw who broke the news that
something's coming down the pipe and then shortly thereafter, uh, I'm sure
We see something come down the pipe and, uh, that's our most recent gun ban.
What are your initial reactions on this?
Daniel Fritter: I, my initial reaction yesterday, I mean,
we knew this was coming.
I appreciate the credit for breaking, but we were also
told to expect the second OIC.
Even going back to Marco Mendocino's, um, work as minister, we were told,
you know, they would reconvene the Canadian Firearms Advisory Committee.
We'd get the second OIC.
Um, But I'll confess that I, and I suspect a lot of other gun owners
probably fell into this trap of they haven't even started doing the buyback.
There's been no progress.
So things seem like they're not progressing.
Uh, then the minister of public safety, Dominic LeBlanc says, we're
not going to ban any more guns.
Cause he said that a few months ago.
Um, so I was, you know, I guess perhaps lulled into a false sense of
security and, um, yesterday when the news broke, obviously I did expect
it because of his testimony the day before I thought it was going to
happen most likely actually today.
So it was a bit earlier than I thought.
But, um, I think, um, it's, it's worse than I thought, to be honest.
Um, I've been trying to keep a stiff upper lip and put on the brave
face and tell folks like, you know, the various things that are good.
It is temporary.
Uh, we are likely looking at a change in government and we've
been told that this incoming government will roll this stuff back.
Um, the more that they do like this OIC, for example, makes this
issue more of a priority for an incoming conservative government
that wants to roll this stuff back.
It makes it more likely that they will, but, uh, In the meantime, it's,
um, it's, it's, even if it's just temporary, it's the death of a culture.
I don't know how else, it sounds hyperbolic to say it, but there's
no more three gun, there's no more action shooting sports.
Um, you know, IPSC, you can still obviously own a handgun and take it and
shoot it, but you can't take basically the, uh, anything, most semi autos besides
an SKS and seemingly a type 81 out to the range, uh, which means, you know,
pistol caliber carbine competitions.
All that stuff is gone.
And, uh, what I was awake in bed last night thinking about was all
of my colleagues who, um, there is some breaking news we can talk about.
I don't know when this is going to come up, but the phase one of the
buyback did start this morning.
Uh, businesses did get an email saying if they want to, uh, remit their prohibited
firearms for compensation, they can do so.
So that might provide a little bit of reprieve for my colleagues
that have this stuff in inventory.
Um, but, you know, from, from, Both like a personal perspective, but also
as a guy that works the industry.
Like, what are we supposed to do?
Let's say, let's say best case scenario, what everyone's talking
about is we get an election in March.
I mean, okay, that's great.
So what happens to now in March?
How am I supposed to, what am I supposed to write about?
What are retailers supposed to sell?
Where's our growth going to occur?
And then, even after the election, when is PolyEv going to reverse this stuff?
If the election's in March, is it going to be, could it be as soon as April?
June?
July?
Like, when?
And, I think that's the thing that I suppose scares me.
I don't know if I'm just feeding into the doom, because normally I like to
be a bit more optimistic than this, but, um, Let's say things come back in
May or June, you know, in a realistic timeline, potentially, uh, maybe even
as soon as March, there's going to be so much pain inflicted on people
in this industry between now and then when they come back, it might not
look the same if the distributors and the dealers that sell these things.
are struggling between now and then.
Um, it's not like they're going to be around.
If like the shops are closed, Wandstalls, for example, they're closed, they're gone.
It's over.
You know, that, that shop is closed.
Those jobs are done.
Um, so I worry a lot about that.
I think, uh, yeah.
Today is mostly just, I feel like I'm going through the
stages of grief, basically.
And it's, uh, it's pretty shitty.
Travis Bader: Well, I just, while you're talking there, I
pulled up my email because I actually haven't checked them yet.
I've been inundated with texts and messages and phone calls, and I see Yes.
Stage one, phase one of the assault style firearms compensation program,
ASFCP for businesses only is underway.
So that one just came through, uh, and you said, what do you, what
are your thoughts on that one?
Because I know in the business industry, there are a mixed bag
of emotion and opinions on that.
You have a group you set up that, uh, you've probably kept an eye on and
seeing what's being said on there.
Yeah.
Daniel Fritter: I think, um, for businesses, they see it
as operating capital, right?
Like they've been sitting on inventory now for almost five years, four and
a half years that they ordered, you know, cause the way, I mean, you
know this, but for the listeners, uh, when the ban happened in 2020.
The guns that were banned, the AR 15s and stuff, those might have been
guns because US election cycles and delays in getting guns across the
border and how long it can take.
Some of those guns were banned or were likely ordered in 2019 even.
Um, so you're looking at, you know, a To put it in for, for AR 15 nerds,
we're talking like key mod, you know, like you might, they might have, they
might have some pretty older style firearms, quad rail stuff, stuff.
That's not, um, particularly appreciable today because things move
it's technology like everything else.
Um, so for a lot of them, they're looking at those and going, Hey, if I can get
rid of these, you know, 2019 circa AR 15s, that wouldn't even sell that well
today because people want, you know, slick rails, all that kind of stuff.
For them, they look at it and just go, this is my chance to recover some of those
costs to get that operating capital back.
Um, and especially these days, lease costs are insanely high on commercial property.
Insurance costs have gone up.
Obviously the cost of labor has increased as well as the
cost of living for everyone.
So that obviously impacts owners.
So a lot of them are probably looking at this and going, this
is a chance to, to get back to.
Um, I know that gun owners at large don't like that particular attitude
that they want the solidarity of like, no, I'm not, we have an amnesty.
Don't give anything back, uh, as a business, you look at it differently.
Uh, you're, you're looking at, you know, profit and loss is kind
of what, what keeps the lights on, um, feels does not do that.
So I think a lot of the businesses will see that as a reprieve, but, um, I'll be
curious to see what happens with a lot of them because the ones that I've talked
to, I understand, um, From a commercial perspective, I really understand that
idea of like, well, let's just get rid of these old AR 15s because they're old.
Um, but for example, VZ 58s are a rifle that I've, one of the few rifles I
actually regret selling because I've had a couple of them and I sold them and then
they were banned and I thought, damn it.
Um, You're probably going to have a hard time getting a visa at 58 these days.
Like if you were, if they were unbanned, trying to get a new one would not be
as easy as it was back in the day.
SVT 40s, there will be no more SVT 40s.
So if you're a, if you're a retailer and you've got one of those, I, I would,
I would probably want to keep that if only because when it is unbanned, if I
can, if I can weather the storm until then, that's a very expensive rifle.
And that was supposed to be 700 bucks, 400 bucks.
You know, it was, you bought an Nuremberg 14 or an SPC 40, and
now there's thousands of dollars.
So if retailers are sitting on inventory of specific guns, I'll be
curious, uh, how that kind of operates.
And I haven't gone through, cause that phase one email
just came out this morning.
I've got to parse the whole thing, but I'll be curious if, uh, Retailers
will be able to say, I have these guns, potentially, you know,
restricted AR 15s that are registered.
I would like to have those confiscated and get a check so I can order other guns.
But I don't want to sell off minor income M 14s, my VZ 58s,
if they'll, how that will work.
If the government will kind of say, you have one shot, all of them or nothing.
And I don't know how that'll go, but I'll be curious to see how that unfolds.
Travis Bader: You bring up an interesting point about, uh, weathering the storm.
And that's one of the things that I think the general firearms
community might be overlooking.
Yes, there is that whole moulin lavé from my come and take them or from my
cold dead hands, we're all together.
We're not going to give an inch.
Attitude, but when it comes to the businesses, if they're not around
next year, if they didn't have the capital to stay afloat, where
does that leave everybody else?
And, you know, I'm talking with a friend of mine and, and, and different
ranges around here, one of them in particular said 90 percent of the
inventory that I can rent out on my I now have to take off the wall
because of yesterday's announcement.
Like that's massive.
And he employs a lot of people and he's a resource for the
law enforcement community.
And I mean, there is, there is more than just that feel good effect of
putting out a political announcement.
These are people's lives and livelihoods.
These, there are serious repercussions of sticking your finger into
the, into the puddle of water.
The ripples that come out are, are far reaching.
Have you talked with other businesses?
I'm sure you've probably had the opportunity.
Have you talked to businesses in the last 24 hours to get their feedback?
Daniel Fritter: Yeah, I have.
Um, you know, I've talked to a couple like retailers obviously
are impacted by this hugely.
Um, I think yesterday the news, they have the compensation program now
available for them will probably ameliorate some of them this morning.
And I mean, to be blunt, I know that gun owners may not like to hear
this, but if you were a business owner and you had hundreds of
thousands of dollars, like I, I have.
Thousands of dollars worth of these guns.
I can't do fuck all with them at this point.
But if I was a business and I had six figures, seven figures worth of inventory
in these things, the news that I could get compensation would be, um, some
would provide some relief, I suppose.
But I've talked to a couple of guys that, you know, more specifically are
in the manufacturing side and they, they can't like, I talked to a fellow who
makes a gun that was banned yesterday.
He only makes that gun.
I need to go.
What do I do?
Like, I, I don't know,
learn to code.
Like it's one of those, like, this is literally, there's nothing else you can
do because you don't, you can't just idle a commercial facility for three months,
six months while you wait for this.
He's got multiple employees.
Um, and I think that's where, like, I've always been very reticent to, uh, dive
into the gun owner as a victim mentality.
Cause I don't like that attitude of like, Oh, the government's attacking us.
We're the victims or the victims because.
I, I feel like it also, um, does a disservice to, like, in very real terms,
the victims of actual crime and harm, because I own guns, I've, I've never
been shot, so it's a different ball game.
But I will say at this point, yeah, there's, this is harmful.
This is just straight up harmful.
It will not, everyone knows it's not going to do anything
with regards to public safety.
The guns they banned yesterday, especially, these are not
guns that are used in crime.
This is, no one's out there finding, you know, Smith and Wesson folding pistol
caliber carbines, like gun scenes.
It's not a thing.
Um, but I do know people that make a living bringing those in
and selling them and those people are going to be hurt by this.
I'm going to be hurt by it.
Everyone in this industry is going to be hurt by it.
So, it is at the point where you can look at this policy and just
go, yeah, there is no benefit.
There will be no public safety increase.
Um, But it is going to hurt a lot of people.
It is forcing a lot of people to at best adapt their business models, shift
their inventories, shift, you know, for us at Caliber, I mean, we, we make
most of our money off of advertising.
That's the, that's the primary revenue source.
A lot of the guns that our advertisers really like to advertise are semi
auto stuff because bolt action guns, they just go to Outdoor Canada.
They go to the hunting magazines and they go to that market.
Um, what's left for us?
You know, we got hit hard with handguns.
The AR 15 stuff hit us hard because we were The outlet for that stuff.
Um, and now we've got semi auto 10 22s and, and rimfire rifles.
And like I said, SKS and type 81, um, but there's not much left.
And I it's, it's going to hurt all of us in a game.
It's there's no benefit.
And I think, especially in our weeks before Christmas, the economy
is not exactly in a great place.
Jobs are not exactly all over the place for people to go and get.
So it's, um, Feels like the thin edge of the wedge for sure.
Travis Bader: Have you heard anything about a future SKS or type 81?
Daniel Fritter: I have not heard anything.
I've heard that there is potentially another ban coming in February.
Um, but that's just a rumor.
I've not had that substantiated anywhere.
There's been no testimony from the minister of public safety saying so.
So who knows?
Um, other stuff will probably happen in March.
I've heard some of the C21 stuff coming into force then
potentially, but, um, I don't know.
I don't, I, I, I would be a bit surprised if the SKS was actually
prohibited, uh, only because if it was going to be, I would have
thought it would be in this round.
The government knows about it.
We've seen, uh, parliamentary secretary for public safety, Pam Damoff, actually
address Elizabeth May, who directly asked in the house of commons, is this
going to be banned after that bank robbery, uh, in, on the island there?
Uh, she did address it saying that.
It was one of the guns they were going to ask the firearms
advisory committee to look at.
Um, so I would have thought if it was going to be prohibited that it
would have just been in this round.
Um.
Why do you think it wasn't?
But who knows?
Um, I think because there was pushback from indigenous groups to be blunt.
I think it's, um, it's a very common hunting rifle in rural and remote
communities and, uh, various organizations associated with first nations and
indigenous spoke up quite loudly and Um, they have, they have quite a
voice in parliament and I think that's what dissuaded them from doing so.
Um, perhaps also to this, the flip side is I, I, that's why I say I
would be surprised if they did.
I would not be surprised if they did because they might be looking to
stage this for further political gain.
Cause that's the only reason they're doing this is right.
You know, not to sound cynical, and I know this is like, it's, but it just is.
They're polling extremely low.
The tax holiday thing they did did not get the headlines they wanted.
They're trying to take control of the narrative.
This is what the Liberal Party of Canada does to try and control the narrative.
They passed another gun ban, and I suspect that if we are looking at potentially a
spring election in March, um, that they might, Prepare that battlefield with
another announcement sometime in February that says, yeah, we're doing it again.
Um, cause I think that's what this is.
It's just a political cudgel.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Well, you and I know it.
We've looked at the numbers.
I think most intelligent people out there inherently know that
these gun bans have absolutely nothing to do with public safety.
And in fact, looking at systemic Statistics in other countries
where they brought in prohibitions.
You look at the timeline, he can look at, they'll say, look at the gun, bad.
We put in, look at how many lives is saved.
Look at how crime's gone down.
Well, some of them, they've actually spikes way up.
Some of them, there's already a trend going downwards and they're just
playing this game with the words.
It's very, uh, confusing.
Quick and visible action, right?
They look at what we've done.
It looks like they're doing something.
The media loves it.
It's a simplistic narrative for them to be able to, to play out.
Um, it's good for comparative politics.
We're not like the States or we're not like the conservatives who have guns and
putting people into a different side.
I'm hard pressed to think that those who are Enacting these laws truly believe that
they have an end effect on public safety, the actual difficult things like poverty,
like, uh, mental health, excuse me, like, like poverty or like mental health or
like all of the difficult conversations that need to be had and they don't have
any clean sort of, um, action point that you can take to, to quickly address.
I'm wondering.
How it is that can be made readily apparent to people, as opposed to the
conversation, always being the pro gun people saying, I wants me guns.
I loves me guns.
Right.
Or, uh, this is my livelihood.
This is my lifestyle.
Those talking points don't seem to be working or the anti gun people
saying, you know, if we could just save one life, if we can get rid of
all the guns, there would be no more crime, which of course is ridiculous.
How do we make it readily apparent?
Apparent that these actions of banning and confiscations are a complete waste
of time and money and the end goal for everybody, what they want to see would
be better served by, by other means.
Daniel Fritter: Um, you know, maybe it's just that I'm, I haven't slept and
I'm not feeling particularly chipper, but I don't think we can, to be honest.
I don't think, uh, I don't think the onus for making that argument is going
to, you know, Uh, it, it will fall to gun owners, but gun owners, I, I don't
actually think we can to be blunt.
I, we've been doing this, I mean, I've been involved in covering guns now
for 13 years and I've been involved politically, uh, going back to Bill
C 391, Candace Bergen's attempt to replace the, or get rid of the long
gun ratio when Harper had a minority.
Like it's, I've been doing, I guess, almost 20 years now.
Hmm.
And.
We've never, there's always been that argument of how do we reach the public?
How do we make the public care?
And it's never happened.
And I don't think it ever will.
And I think what gun owners probably should start to realize is that, um,
a few things, they don't need to.
The public doesn't matter to, again, saying some people don't
agree, the public doesn't matter.
The public doesn't care about this.
The gun ban that was passed yesterday, no one cares.
It barely broke the news.
It's a flash in the pan.
It's over, right?
The only people still talking about are those of us that are impacted by it.
Everyone else has moved on.
It's just a normal Friday for the rest of Canada, um, because guns are
not a massive vote issue in Canada.
It's a, it's more of a media thing.
Uh, and that's where I think.
The landscape has shifted, and that's why I say, you know, gun owners may not
be able to change public perception, but, uh, we should take note of
the way the landscape has changed where, um, the media no longer cares.
The media absolutely doesn't think this is going to help.
I've done a ton of interviews with normal radio hosts, TV people,
journalists that write for newspapers, and they all say, this isn't, this
Like, why are they banning AR 15s?
I don't see a lot of AR 15s cross my headlines associated
with crime because they don't.
These are people that cover this stuff, they know it.
But it's almost like there's this kind of zombie like political machination
going on, uh, in Ottawa, on both sides, to be clear, both the Liberals and the
Conservatives, because the Liberals seem to think this, this bizarre idea
of if we just keep pushing guns and gun bans, that we're good, we're gonna
win that Southern Ontario mother of three vote they want so desperately.
Um, so, yeah.
Even though it's not happening, like she doesn't care anymore.
She, it's not a thing.
Um, if anything, a lot of people have noticed that, you know, the more
they ban guns, the more effort they put into this stuff, this is kind
of like a, I guess a tragic thing.
I, for now, man, this is depressing.
This is really depressing, but I guess, but you know, I was saying when, when
the gun bans happened in 2020, I told a bunch of people, journalists, readers,
everyone that would listen that, you know, focusing on Banning guns from licensed
people is consuming resources and that's all the government really has is is
our funding if if not for our taxpayer dollars, the government doesn't exist.
Everything from judges to jails to the border to the military.
It's all just how they use our money basically and that when they take a
bunch of our money and they use it for and they use it for Taking our guns that
that's money that could otherwise go to mental health, homelessness, actual
crime, interdiction, et cetera, and that by doing that, we would likely see
an increase in those larger societal harms because they're focusing on this
thing instead of all these other things.
And now, four and a half years later, I think everyone's seeing that.
And I think that's where, when I say gun owners can't change public
perception, public perception will come around on its own.
And we're seeing that already where, you know, I've, I've been saying for years,
and you've done a great podcast on it.
We are looking at a Canada where concealed carry may become a realistic option.
And not only that, it may become the only option available to public policy makers.
Because you cannot invent more police officers.
You can't just turn a knob and flick a switch and double the size of the RCMP.
It doesn't work that way.
Um, you need to increase the funding.
Then you've got to get caught.
Officers in the pipeline, they need to be trained up.
Then they need to be like, it's not an instant thing.
Um, and right now we have 170 something police officers per 100, 000 people.
That is half of the European average.
Not the European high watermark that is half of the European average Europe has
354 police officers per 100, 000 people on average They have countries that
have 700 police officers per 100, 000.
We have 170
Travis Bader: So
Daniel Fritter: you cannot rectify that problem.
You cannot fix our issues around bail and our issues around The judicial pipeline
and how clogged up our courts are and how slow they are to react You cannot solve
those overnight, but crime does increase overnight And, you know, I, I, if you
had said to me 10 years ago, we would actually have a realistic conversation.
I would open a newspaper.
This is the best context is I opened a newspaper, I think probably six
months ago, and I read a column from a journalist in a normal newspaper
that said, maybe it's time for Canadians to consider concealed carry.
And this was not the rebel.
This was not some kind of right.
This was a normal newspaper.
This is one guy who just was, he was writing an op ed based on his
observations around his community going.
I don't feel safe.
I have no misconceptions that the police are going to come.
Maybe it's time for us to consider this.
If you had said that is something I would read in a newspaper 10 years ago, no way.
Because 10 years ago, you could go to a gun club and you could talk
about self defense with a gun and every other gun owner at the gun
club would go, are you insane?
You can't do that in Canada.
That's not a thing we do here.
And yet this is the reality that we're now facing, even as we have
this government that's banning guns.
And I don't, um, it's almost like the more they do the worst things get.
And, uh, Uh, it's not good.
So.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
You brought up that interview that I did with Ian Sim on, um,
concealed carry and the last line of defense act that he's proposing.
I was blown away by the reception that that interview had and
how many people are yearning to have more conversations on that.
I was absolutely blown away.
The, the numbers for the podcast and numbers on YouTube, um, are very
indicative of where the, the zeitgeist is, what the general mindset is.
You brought something interesting in about public, public
perception is changing on its own.
And I agree.
And if I'm to look at the silver lining and all of this, I say the pendulum
has to swing back at some point and the further that we push it in one direction.
Eventually it's going to get pushed too far.
And in and of itself, it's going to be self evident that
people are on the wrong path.
And when these gun bans came in, you ever have these conversations, you're
sitting down and you're emotionally invested in the conversation with
the individual you're talking to.
And then you realize all of a sudden, they're just going off the
deep end and you just find a way to kind of like, I'm just kind of
tuning you out for a bit because it's just not worth my effort anymore.
Um, that's what I feel is happening with the gun bans.
That's what I feel is happening.
When I see these further restrictions being brought into place, I see that
pushing the pendulum faster and harder.
And a part of me says, you know, I'm not really paying attention.
Bring it, push it fast.
Put as many bands as you can on there.
It's, it's similar to remember, uh, PM, PM prime minister, prime minister,
Paul Martin, when, uh, you Uh, he was coming out and saying, we do not
want to do anything with your guns.
We don't want to touch them.
And the second he had the opportunity, he's like, okay, full handgun ban.
And it fell flat on its face.
Why he pushed too hard, too fast.
And I see this camel in the tent approach that's being taken over the years.
Being highly effective because people become apathetic to the chains.
What can I do?
I, you know, it's just a little, it doesn't really involve me right now.
It's just those people shooting those guns and little by little these
rights and freedoms become eroded.
So when I see new bands coming in, there is this part of me that says, bring
it, pile them on, be like proponents.
Paul Martin and push too far, because I think that is what makes it readily
apparent to the general public that this isn't where we should be
spending our time, energy, and money.
And we're just playing games.
So I, I do agree that public perception changes on its own, but I believe that.
That the individual can highly amplify that through means of non
traditional media, through Tik TOK, through Instagram, through social
media, through talking with their friends at the local, whatever, right.
Whatever they're interested in.
I really do believe that that, uh, that people tend to be afraid to speak out.
It's like when COVID hit and people are like, well, we can't say the word
COVID I can't talk about, and then some people start talking about it and like,
okay, well, maybe I got an opinion.
And they start coming out.
If they know that you're open to reasonable discourse on it, maybe
they're open to talking about it too.
So I, if I'm to put a silver lining on this, I kind of like the fact that
they're pushing harder and that the camel is running into the tent as opposed
to just sticking its toes in the tent.
And I like the, um, I like the anger that that is building in
people to want to actually stand up.
And it's like, um, uh, what was his name?
Constantine Kissen.
And he saw his, uh, chat he did at Oxford.
Brilliant, never in a million years of that time, would I think a comedian
would come out and say something just so poignant on the nose at Oxford university.
But what does he say?
You have personal agency.
Don't forget that.
And the, the worst thing that our culture is doing right now is trying
to convince you that you can't do something, you can't affect change.
So that's, that's where I see the silver lining on this.
I
Daniel Fritter: see the same.
Thing.
And I agree.
Um, I do hope that we see, I mean, Lord knows when, when Harper
lost in 2015 there, that apathy is what got Trudeau elected.
I mean, there were posts on Canadian gun nuts.
There were even prominent people in our community saying things like, well, you
know, Harper didn't really do anything on guns and Trudeau saying he won't.
So there's no harm, like no one will do anything on guns.
And there was this general attitude that.
The gun policy was fixed and it was just, it was an intractable thing
that no one was going to approach or change because, you know, admittedly
Harper, a lot of people look back, oh, Harper didn't do anything.
And people forget he only had one majority.
He had four years do what he could and he got rid of the long gun registry
and that, which, um, I think a lot of us can really appreciate these
days for reasons, um, for reasons.
Yeah.
There was that apathy that people went, Oh, nothing's going to happen.
And now a lot of shit has happened that I think has, has reduced that apathy,
but also to, um, the demographics amongst gun owners in Canada have changed
hugely in the last 10 years as well.
When Trudeau was first elected in 2015 gun owners were, they're still, they
still are an older cohort than average.
I think the median age is something like 55, but it has shifted drastically.
quite a bit too younger.
Uh, and also too, it's not necessarily entirely, but when I talk about
the demographics have changed, it's not just the average or median age.
It's that the new people, we've seen a 10 percent growth in gun license holders.
Those are predominantly young people.
You know, they're 30 and under, and a lot of political action occurs.
From young people,
Travis Bader: old
Daniel Fritter: guys, like I'm 39.
I got two kids.
I'm busy.
I got a job, like hopefully still have one.
Like I got stuff to do.
I don't have as much time as I did 20 years ago to get involved in politics.
Now we've got a large cohort of young gun owners who I think are
also, you know, to speak about some other stuff and potentially sound
a little bit highbrow or frustrated with the The world they live in.
They can't afford a house.
The cost of living is insane.
The jobs aren't there for them.
Um, and in a lot of cases, for a lot of them, and I think this is where
that concealed carry conversation comes up a lot, is that a lot of
people feel very insecure these days, especially after COVID.
Um, And there are very few things that can provide someone with a sense
of personal security like a firearm.
If you're a, if you're a single mom or a young lady, having a shotgun
is a definite source of security.
If you've got one of those in your house, you feel, I feel
a bit safer than I did before.
Um, and I think, you know, I was told a very long time ago that for Canadian gun
rights to succeed in the longterm, it has to be tied to a sense of security.
Because that is the only reason truly to own a gun to need a
gun is to protect yourself.
Um, hunting is a great thing.
And I know Canadians really like their hunting.
Uh, I know you do for sure.
See the Instagram, but you can buy food at the grocery store.
And that's what.
People know that.
The only, there's one reason for someone to own a gun and to need
a gun in an instant, and that is because their life is at risk.
Maybe it's a cougar.
Maybe it's a bear.
Maybe it's a stalker.
It doesn't matter.
That is the one reason, the inalienable reason to say, I need this thing.
And I think a lot of young people are kind of Realizing that because
they've been forgotten by this government that they have no faith.
The police will come you you talk to a 22 year Old and say
hey if something is stolen.
Do you call the cops?
They don't know right?
Because that's, that's their whole life has been in this situation
where you can't get a doctor, you can't get the cops to come.
Those are the two things that young Canadians know.
Um, and I think that's something that, you know, that shift, the, the, the
way they're pushing this forward, I, I hope that someone in Ottawa, hopefully
amongst the Conservatives, kind of realizes like, hey, this is not the,
The radioactive football that once was, I think that there is some room.
And we saw that in the BC election when the conservatives and the NDP
had that discussion around guns that that didn't go well for the NDP.
They did not go up in the polls when they talked about how, you know, John Rustad
wasn't going to enforce federal gun laws.
No one cared.
Like they said, John Rustad will not enforce federal gun laws.
And their polls went exactly nowhere.
And I think that's kind of evidence that even here in BC, which is.
Typically kind of left leaning.
Um, voters here did not care.
They didn't resound.
And I think there's that that has to say something to people.
It's it's a big shift.
So I do hope people get active and, you know, it's hard to
see this far down the road.
But as someone who Kind of does not want this issue to be political anymore,
because I, I don't think it should be.
I think it should be part of a larger public safety framework.
Um, I hope that gun owners realize that they can have very real impact on the
way this goes down the road, because, uh, federal elections are difficult.
They'll, you know, we'll have millions of people voting in
the next federal election.
And as even 2.
4 million gun owners, the way our riding systems work, it's hard to
say if gun owners can actually sway an individual riding, nevermind
an entire election outcome.
But after this election, there's going to be two leadership campaigns
for the NDP and the Liberal Party, and those will have tens of
thousands of people voting in them.
Those are much smaller numbers.
They do not have a writing system.
It's just an absolute vote.
Um, I mean, Jagmeet Singh, I've said it numerous times because I
really want people to realize this.
He won the leadership of the NDP.
The reason the NDP is supporting liberals is because he has a
complete and utter stranglehold.
On the new Democrats.
He got that because he won that leadership election so decisively.
He was basically allowed to replace the entire party establishment.
Same as Justin Trudeau did,
Travis Bader: but Jagmeet
Daniel Fritter: Singh did this with 40, 000 votes.
That's a few gun clubs
Travis Bader: like
Daniel Fritter: realistically, that is, that is five, six gun clubs in
Ontario and major metro centers.
If, if that's what it takes to control the new Democrats
completely from the ground up.
Gun owners can have a huge impact on those elections.
And to go back to 2015, we heard about all these people that
say, I'm a liberal gun owner.
I can't vote for Stephen Harper.
If you're one of those people.
It's your time to shine, step up, you know, um, start, start
making some, some noises.
And we might see, hopefully my, my hope is that we see gun owners take
ownership of these, these other political parties in some form, take a role and,
and put the pin back in this grenade and say, Hey, we're done being this,
we're done being a political football.
This is a very real and salient public safety issue.
It does not.
It should not be batted back and forth like this.
Travis Bader: I think that's a very powerful message.
One that, uh, people listening to this podcast are looking for.
I got a number of different phone calls and texts yesterday and today
saying, can you tell me something that'll, uh, brighten my day?
Can you tell me something that will give me some hope?
And there's a deep part of me that says, I don't want to, I want you to be angry.
I want you to look at what you can personally do because a second it's
like, well, okay, well, I guess it doesn't really affect me quite yet.
It gets put onto the back burner.
And, and I think people have to realize if there's one thing that
I can hopefully make clear from my precision anyways, is to reiterate.
What Constantine Kissin says, the high level of personal
agency that every individual has.
When you're talking to 40, 000 people, you've got a voice.
You're not stuck out there in the wind anymore.
Your vote matters.
I look at Alberta.
I look at what they're doing and how they're, uh, the
direction that they're taking.
They don't have a massive population in Alberta.
But they have a vocal group of constituents that are helping shape
the direction of where they want to go in a way that, that aligns with
the values that might be contrary to what the current narrative is, but
they, they work for, for Albertans.
So I will
Daniel Fritter: say on that note, though, you just reminded me of something.
This is something that concerns me a bit though, because, um, I don't know
if we've spoken about it before, but I've, I've been somewhat concerned
about, uh, a relatively recent trend amongst gun owners to download
their responsibility, their agency.
Travis Bader: Um,
Daniel Fritter: because when I look at this and like, you know, like I said,
I've been in this kind of political arena for 20 years on this 20 years ago.
Um, And I'll say the names of the organizations.
I don't mean to, I'm not trying to say it, just this is reality.
We had the CSSA and the NFA.
And while we were trying to get rid of that long gun registry
with Harper's Minority, uh, we needed Jack Layton's NDP to vote.
in favor of Candace Bergen's bill to get rid of it.
And it was close.
Like it was a private member's bill.
There was, I remember it was the first time I watched, uh, the Secu meetings.
It was a big deal and gun owners are very invested in it because
Jack Layton had quite famously said he would not whip the vote.
He would let his constituents and his caucus vote how they wanted to.
So we saw an opportunity and we pushed hard and the organizations, uh, at
play at this time said they did not say You know, donate to us and support us.
They said, go to your MP phone, your MP donate 3.
91 to the conservative party to show them.
This is what you want.
This is a priority for you.
They told gun owners to interface with their elected representatives.
They gave form letters.
I know because I was part of the guy.
It's one of the guys writing those form letters to say, here's a form letter.
Give this to your MP because you know, one lobbyist from one organization
going to the government saying, I represent a very large lobby group.
It's still just one person, you know, we had MPs complaining that
their offices were receiving too much mail about the long gun registry.
That is, that is what got it almost repealed back then.
And if we had gotten it repealed under the minority, we might actually have
a simplified classification system now because Harper could have done
something else with the majority.
Um, cause all this stuff is progressive.
Like you do one thing and then the next and the next.
Um, and I think that there's, there's been a shift recently towards more of a.
I, I, I'm a member of an organization.
Therefore I've done enough.
Travis Bader: And that's
Daniel Fritter: not the case.
It doesn't work that way.
Like, you know, the gold standard of all these organizations as controversial as
they are historically speaking has been the NRA and the NRA does do a lot of
work in Washington, but they also do a lot of work to empower their membership
to say, you are your own advocate.
Um, we can give you the tools.
We're here to help you, but we're not going to do it for you.
No one can do it for you.
And I think that's where Um, I want gun owners, if you're, if they're angry about
this, if they're pissed off after this latest ban, take that anger to your MP,
do it politely, but don't, don't think that someone else is going to, to, like,
I'm not going to call your MP, I'm going to cover the news, I'm going to try and
give you guys tools, I'm going to give people form letters, I'm going to give
them facts and points that they can raise with their MP, but that's your MP, you're
their constituent, they work for you, make them work for you, like, Go there and say,
Hey, I'm the taxpayer that you represent.
I'm the one that you go to Ottawa to represent.
Here's why I'm pissed about this.
Because until we start to see that happen again, um, government is just going
to keep doing this stuff in isolation.
And I think this also extends to the conservatives where if, if you're
worried that Polyev won't repeal this stuff fast enough, well, Go knock on
their door, make them like, you know,
Travis Bader: if,
Daniel Fritter: if 2.
4 million of us, we, we can't sway an electoral outcome, but we can't
absolutely be the squeakiest wheel.
And we have been nowhere near that for the last few years.
And I think, um, I think that's kind of what has gotten us where we are.
And I think, uh, if we don't change that attitude and we don't start to
say as a community, like, no, I am, I may be a member of whatever your
favorite organization is, but I am the one that's going to abdicate for me.
You know, it, it doesn't work.
You can't, you can't let other people do that for you.
It doesn't work.
Travis Bader: I agree.
And that's one message that I've tried to get out in so many different ways.
And I, I don't know when it's going to hit.
Hopefully when that pendulum gets pushed far enough, people
will start seeing it sink in.
I, it doesn't matter what gun club, what organization, what
group that you're Belonging to there is a disservice being done.
If they're espousing to be the savior for you, and they're going to make everything
great, because that's not, that's not the role of these organizations.
These role organizations are fantastic for disseminating information, for keeping
you updated so that you can go out and do something yourself, but the second you,
uh, give that control over and figure I'm done, I donated a hundred bucks or
I donated a whole bunch more than that.
It goes nowhere.
It really does.
Uh, without going too far down the rabbit hole of where it can go, where human
nature can take these sorts of things.
I think people should realize that so much can be changed just by them taking a
small step on a consistent basis to never, Underappreciate the value of consistent,
small action over the longterm.
You know, I, I did a podcast with Rachel Attila, um, masterclass on how to get your
author authorization to carry a firearm.
Now I've been successful through my company here of having people get their
ATCs for a very long time, and I figured, you know, I got the secret sauce.
I don't want to share it too far and too wide, not because I don't
want others to replicate it, but.
Because I don't want the firearms program to be like, okay, that's enough.
We're going to close that tap now.
Right.
I was always a concern.
And then finally, uh, when Rachel reached out, she was working with the national
firearms association, a great organization doing great work in disseminating
information, but not the place to go to if, uh, if you need immediate action on
something or something solved for you, there's other places you can go to.
Right.
Anyways, he'd been working, I think it was four years with them.
Uh, finally, they said, why don't you reach out to Travis?
See what, see if he can help you.
Within a few weeks, we had our ATC.
I said, tell you what, Rachel, she's like, what I owe you.
I said, nothing.
I don't want anything.
I want to see you to be successful.
And once you're successful, why don't we talk about it?
Why don't I take a different approach rather than trying to
hold these cards close to my chest for fear of losing it all.
Why don't I disseminate it far and wide for that to become the norm.
So I drove 12 hours up to her place.
I camped out for a few days.
We recorded a podcast in an old barn with battery powered lights and cameras.
And then I came back, drove another 12 hours back and.
Then I edited the podcast.
Then I wrote 20 pages of step by step how to get your authorization to carry.
I supplemented that with another 30 pages.
I provided it to the NFA.
They made it look pretty with, uh, pictures and it's out.
And what do I get?
Oh, it's not worth the effort.
Oh, why would I want to do it?
Oh, Trav, can you, can you show me exactly what you mean?
I, I.
I want to do it, but I don't want to do it unless there's a guarantee.
Holy crow.
Not only is there a step by step program that someone has put out for
you, the amount of people that reach out who are too afraid to stick their
neck out and actually try it because of perceived repercussions or because of
perceived costs, real or perceived, uh, It's been a, it's been mind boggling.
And so my goal, my, my whole push in this right now is just to get people to
realize that I'm no different than them.
Dan, you're no different from the next person.
You're just sticking your neck out and pushing a little bit.
You're just voicing what you feel to be true.
And we're not all going to have the right answers, but we're going
to come up with different ideas.
Like I, there's a very cool idea that, uh, I'm not going to mention on this podcast.
It's not my idea.
It's not for me to spill, but there is, there is some light at the
end of the tunnel by some smart individuals and smart businesses.
That, um, could make some big waves.
So there are things for people to look forward to.
And what I would encourage people is to come up with their own, come up with their
own smart ideas and different ways that they can actually make these things work.
Daniel Fritter: I mean, don't be scared of failure.
Travis Bader: Like
Daniel Fritter: I heard a lot, cause in my world, it's a lot of, I, I've
been saying for years, contact your MP.
Open a conversation, become someone who they know.
So if you bump into them at the Canada day parade, they go, Oh, it's, it's Dan.
I mean, I have that relationship with my MP.
I see Tracy.
She knows me.
She says, hi, there's no reason that you shouldn't have that.
Um, we pay them a lot of money.
And so you may as well get your, like, I view it as kind of like
a get your value out of it.
I hear from a lot of people that they don't want to contact them
because they're worried they'll say the wrong thing, or they don't
know how to say the right thing.
It's sort of the stuff you can send your MP an email.
It can say.
One sentence.
I am very unhappy about this most recent gun ban.
Please contact me done.
That's all you've got to say because you don't, there's, there is this
sort of pathological need to fire and forget one step solution.
Like I'm going to write an email and they're going to,
they're going to take it back.
They're probably not.
Realistically, but what we need is them to get a lot of emails
and that's what they're logging.
That's what the data collection at the party level is doing.
Your email can literally say.
Fuck you.
Like, it can just say, I hate the gun ban.
Fuck you at the end.
And your MP is going to log that as, Oh, I've, I've received a
lot of emails from people that are unhappy about this gun ban.
It's not incumbent on any gun owner to fix this problem.
It is incumbent upon them to take ownership of this problem and present
to their elected representative and say, Hey, This is not what I want
you to be doing and you work for me.
That's all you've got to do.
Um, but it is not up to you, just like it's not up to, you know, the
CCFR, the CSSA, the NFA, the CSAAA.
It's not up to any of those organizations to fix this problem.
This is government's problem.
It will be another government that fixes it.
It is up to us to be our own advocates.
And, and, you know, Tony, Tracy, Rod, doesn't matter who it is, Rick from
the NFA, none of them can go to 338 ridings and go to the MP's office and
sit down and say, Hey, I'm here to represent my constituents in this area.
Cause that's not how MPs will work.
First off, they want your postal code because they want to know that.
Um, once you've got that magical postal code from their
writing, they start listening.
They have to care.
There are people there who we pay, who have to listen to you.
Um, you don't have to say the perfect thing.
You should be polite.
I would not suggest saying, fuck you, that probably won't go so far.
But you know, if, if, if the option is realistic at this point, I'll say, Perhaps
unpopular and perhaps unprofessional, uh, if it's between a gun owner, not sending
an email and a gun owner sending an email that just says, fuck you, I'd rather the
latter just do it like we're, it just, it's better than nothing, you know, like
you just need to get in touch with them.
You just need to start the conversation.
Um, you don't have to do it perfectly.
You don't have to be a wizard with words.
Just.
Just try.
Don't be scared.
They're not, they're not going to email you back and say, you're going to jail.
That's, that's not something you're going to do.
So you don't really have a lot of fear.
And again, like I said, it's getting your value out of it.
This is, these are the people we pay.
They were probably in many cases, they were not elected by you because
they might be someone that you did not vote for, but nonetheless,
they still have to represent you.
They don't have to like you.
They should represent you.
And the only way they can do so is if you stand up and say, Hey,
I am here to be represented.
Travis Bader: You know, they're just people like you or I,
and we want to be successful.
We want to sound intelligent.
We want to be on the right side of history and be doing the right thing.
And sometimes if we come to someone with a problem, also approaching them with a
solution is going to Provide some action points for that individual to take off
with, or oftentimes what I've seen is people who are eloquent, who can write
a nice letter, who can, uh, couch a letter or frame an argument or, or put
something together in a way that, uh, will make their MLA or their MP looks smart.
So all they have to do is say, well, I got this thing here and they can read it off.
And then they can turn around and see, okay, what's, what's the temperature here.
Oh, it's good.
Yeah, no, I agree with it.
Oh, it's bad.
Oh, it's, it's one of my constituents, but it's my job to bring it up.
Right.
Um, being able to provide a solution or, uh, a way to frame
the argument perhaps differently.
Cause this, it never has been a gun issue.
It never has been.
If somebody wants a gun, we know it, they'll go, there's,
they'll find a gun illegally.
You make all guns illegal, then they're going to all have illegal guns.
Right.
How many more crimes are being committed by these AR 15s and these handguns.
And since all of these measures are being put into place, said zero effect on that.
Um, but if we can frame liberals
Daniel Fritter: know this, especially because this is the party that legalized
marijuana to make it not criminal.
Like they took the, the, one of the things that bothers me the most about all of
this is the logical inconsistency of, you know, In 2015, we're going to legalize
this drug because too many criminals are selling it and we want to get it
out of the control of the black market.
So we're going to make it legal.
We're going to put on all these regulatory frame rails that people have to abide by.
Um, and then they turn around later and go, we need to now ban this
other thing to move it into the black market and make sure criminals are
the only people that control it.
It's not logically consistent.
Travis Bader: And I
Daniel Fritter: think that's where, you know, like you say,
if you bring a solution forward, if you have a liberal MP.
Yeah.
Maybe that's what you put forward to them.
And you say, look, you were elected in 2015 to move drugs
out of the black market.
Now you are doing the opposite with firearms.
Why does this, this does not make sense.
You know, explain it to me.
Yeah, I like that.
I don't think they can,
Travis Bader: but people like control, you're losing control.
You no longer know where the firearms are.
You no longer know where the people with firearms are.
Don't you want that level of control?
Here's one way you can do it.
Daniel Fritter: Yeah.
I think that's a legit point.
Like, I think that's a legitimately concerning, I've said this before too.
It's one of my concerns with the ban from 2020 is that, um, all of the
non restricted prohibited firearms.
Now they can't be used, right?
Like you can't take them to the range.
You can't do anything.
You can't sell them.
Um, that's not a great situation as, as far as like from someone who looks at it
forensically from a crime perspective.
Um, you just marginalized hundreds of thousands of guns.
That are really they're not guns that are used in crimes very often for logistical
reasons it's hard to hide a visa at 58 in your pants, but They are not the
guns and I think I speak for most games.
Those are not the guns.
I want criminal using I do not want a guy rolling around with an Orenco m14 because
that is That's a pretty significant rifle.
308.
It's a main battle rifle.
Like it's a big rifle.
If uncle Bob has one and he can't use it and he's had it for 10 years.
He didn't do the buyback cause he thought screw Trudeau.
Um, and we're only five years away from this tenure
hypothetical, which is shocking.
Um, and the, the kind of crappy nephew comes up at the family barbecue and says,
Hey, uncle Bob, you still got that rifle?
And he goes, eh, yeah, I think so.
I think it's up in the garage actually.
Why?
Oh, I know a guy that'll buy it off you.
Yeah.
And he, this is, this is the porous nature of the black market.
And I think this is a very serious risk that the government has exposed all of
us to because yeah, if, if this is a very realistic thing that will happen, um,
it's why a ton of criminals use cooies.
Cause they're everywhere.
You, you break into any 80 year olds house, you will come back
with a coolie single shot rifle.
Probably, um, we are now setting up a condition where there's going to be
a bunch of other guns that, you know, people don't want to give them to
the government because why would you want to cooperate with this program?
If you don't need the money, It just is kind of an almost spiteful thing
to say no, um, but where do those guns end up eventually if they don't
enter a legal, if they do not become legal again, like realistically in 10,
20, 30, where do these guns end up?
Right.
Like, are we just supposed to expect that everyone will die on the estate?
We'll hand them over to the RCMP and we'll get shredded.
Like, is that a, is that realistic?
No.
Um, So they are kind of pushing a lot of these rifles that they don't, they're
saying we don't want criminal using into criminal hands the longer this goes on.
It is the exact same as the marijuana legalization thing.
You need these things to be on the quote unquote white market.
You need people to be using them.
You want licensed people to have regulations on how they should store
them, um, shoving them into the shadows.
I've, I'm putting out a sticker set called Schrodinger's Gats, um,
cause they're guns that both exist and don't exist, you know, like you
might have one, but no one knows it.
And there it is.
So, and I think there's so many of them and this list, the farther they expand
it, the more guns get involved in it.
Um, I mean, we might now be looking at like a million plus.
firearms that are prohibited, non restricted, no regulation
or no paperwork on them.
The government has no idea who owns them, uh, that are going to just get
shuffled away into the back corners of closets and, and hidden away.
Cause you know, Oh, I wasn't supposed to keep this, but I'm
not going to tell anyone about it.
And I think that's, um, that is not, again, this is harmful policy.
It is not improving public safety in any way, you know?
Um, and I think, I wish I could say that the liberals were going
to realize this and roll it back.
Cause I think that would be.
The best thing for all of us, but, um, I don't see that
happening from what I've heard.
It's basically just the Trudeau party.
He does what he wants and everyone listens to him and he doesn't take anything back.
So, you know, um,
Travis Bader: we'll see.
Um, so key takeaways for people, the new lists that came out yesterday, you
can't take them to the range anymore.
You can't sell them.
They're just.
Sitting in your safe now, people should be aware of that.
And that's, uh, where that one's at, um, buyback.
Have you heard any, any rumor on what a buyback looks like?
Everything I've heard is like 10 cents on the dollar.
Daniel Fritter: I've been digging into that pretty heavily with a tips and stuff.
Uh, so obviously phase one, the business component starts today.
Um, the individual component phase two.
Is not planned in this fiscal year.
Uh, so the soonest that we would expect to see that begin would be March
of 2025 or April or other of 2025.
Um, that's where it gets into the, I don't know when the next
election is likely to occur.
Um, obviously the amnesty is until October 25th, I believe it is, which
is very close to the selection date, but that can be extended and I think
gun owners should probably expect this.
The.
That can be extended within five minutes.
Like they, they write a piece of paper, they extend the amnesty,
which I think is probably likely.
Cause even if Polly have comes in, in March, I mean, maybe they'd have
to extend the amnesty because I guess unless they were to undo the OIC
immediately, but that would be difficult.
Cause the summer, summer break for the legislature would, they're not going to
have a lot of weeks after the election and they're going to be kind of busy,
you know, Making the next government right appointing ministers and coming
up with mandate letters takes time.
So I would expect the amnesty date to be extended.
But, um, so basically soon as we can expect to see news on the
individual component is March.
Um, it is.
Somewhat murky still, it looks like they're trying to get buy
in from, from the government and from police departments and stuff.
We did hear Dominic LeBlanc, for example, say that the Sûreté du
Québec, the Quebec police would go door to door, um, which that was a bit
frightening for me, um, to hear, cause that's, that's not a good situation.
Um, and in talking with some colleagues about it.
It doesn't make any sense.
It's a hugely expensive and no one has the police officers to
expend doing that kind of thing.
I mean, here in Kelowna, we've, we've got like three cops, you know, that we
don't have, we do not have the manpower to be, to be going door to door.
Um, moreover, uh, going door to door to people that own guns is not something
police officers really want to do.
Um, usually, you know, if they were to serve a warrant for someone that had
a bunch of guns, that involves ERT.
It's like a three day process.
They've got to make a plan because the concern is there right after,
especially after Mayor Thorpe, that institution has learned some lessons
and they do not take this stuff lightly.
Um, so I don't, that was an interesting thing because as I said with
colleagues there, uh, some of them, some of my colleagues think it almost
sounds as if the create a conflict.
And I mean that in like a, a violent kind of way, not a conflict of interests,
but like a, like, why, why would you even hint, you know, almost a year
away from the end of the amnesty?
Why would you start talking about cops going door to door?
Like that's, that's inflammatory.
It's so far down the road.
It's in the next fiscal year for the Quebec police.
I can almost guarantee it's not on an operational plan anywhere
because it's so far away.
They can't knock on a door until the amnesty is over,
Travis Bader: right?
Daniel Fritter: Like we're talking October of next year with where no
one has any misconceptions that this government will be still in power.
Um, so I thought that was, you know, I thought that was telling.
What do you think?
Travis Bader: They're just speaking out of turn, talking without thinking, or
maybe a little bit when they're, I don't
Daniel Fritter: think Dominic LeBlanc is Dominic LeBlanc is
no, I don't know him obviously.
Um, but he does have a reputation for being very intelligent.
and very good at politics.
So speaking out of turn, not realizing what he was saying are not things
that I would describe that to.
Um, I think his testimony was very measured.
I think he was trying to make a few points there, like pointing out that he'd already
seen a destroyed firearm from phase one.
Uh, obviously I, I think I've said this elsewhere too, that that was likely a gun
that was seized from a bankrupt business, because compensation hasn't started the
compensation package only came out today.
So anything that had been seized previously was just seized and destroyed.
It wasn't part of this compensation program.
Um, but I think he was trying to position the government as
having made progress on this.
That's what I got from that was he's trying to say we have progress.
We've already started.
We are underway I think obviously the tie in with the the 35th anniversary
of the polytechnic mass murder being involved He he hit a lot of key points
that makes me think that comment about the police going door to door Was not an
accident that there is something there.
There is an intent by the government perhaps simply to express the seriousness
that they're handling this with.
Maybe it, maybe that was intended for the police suviant kind of
audience who wants to see gun owners have cops knock on their door.
Um, maybe that's how they felt the messaging would be delivered to gain
to that mother of three in Toronto that they want to get to vote for them.
Maybe that's who it was.
I don't know if it landed with those people, but I do know that, um, for me as
a gun owner, that's a terrifying prospect.
And also again, Like I, I heard it and I just went like,
when, when are you doing this?
Like you were covered under an amnesty until next year.
The cops don't really have a legal leg to stand on in order to come and seize guns.
Um, it was, it was, it was a bizarre one, but it's, uh,
that was certainly concerning.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
It does create a very us against them mentality.
And I, I've talked about people about this before, because, you know, I look
at the firearms community and there's new rules coming down and there's new
regulations and gun clubs will say, well, we're going to create our own
regulations, which are above them.
So we can, we can manage ourselves because we want to try and fix it.
We want to feel that's within our locus of control, and we're
not being told what to do.
And all of a sudden it becomes a very, a very strange, uh, environment where
you got these range Nazis coming up with their own rules and very, very
splintered, which is possibly all part of the, part of the, uh, the
overall plan, but this us against them.
It is on both sides.
I remember years ago doing an A TIP when Canadian gun nuts or whatever,
Canada gun nuts there, that web forum wasn't in its infancy, but it
hadn't been around for a ton of time.
And I remember reading one between, uh, the chief firearms officer
of British Columbia and a couple of different firearms officers.
And they're like, what's this Canadian gun nuts thing?
And one of them says, Oh, so, so he's got an account.
Um, he's looking into it in the comment comes back and says, Oh, I can just see
these grown men living in their parents basements, crying about the fact that they
can't own X, Y, Z, and the disdain that you can just see through these internal.
Conversations, uh, is palpable.
And I guess, I guess what I'm trying to get out here is that, you know, these
are people too, they got emotions, they got feelings, they pick sides.
And if us as gun owners play to the, our emotional side, like you can't do that.
That's not right.
Yeah, might well be the truth, but no one's going to listen to you in the
same breath if the firearms officers are out there, if you're able.
To appeal to what drives them intrinsically, if you're able to paint
them into a corner, but provide them a door out so that they can save face, you
can get your side across and things can kind of move in a direction that you want.
I think there's.
There's a lot to be said for taking that approach.
And that can be done through social media.
People can take to social media to Tik TOK.
I see a lot of that people just coming up level headed approaches
to issues that are coming up and just point by point pointing out.
This doesn't make sense because A, B, and C, and the more people can
do that, the more those who are in positions of authority or the civil
servants can feel uncomfortable with the fact that their actions are going
to now have consequences and they might be held accountable to something.
I think that's the
Daniel Fritter: approach.
It takes very few people to hold a public servant to account too.
I think that's something that, you know, public safety is a large entity.
It obviously has hundreds and thousands of employees as a federal organization.
Um, By virtue of our, our public bureaucracy, there's also a lot of checks
and balances and there are ways that you as a normal person can email them
and say, Hey, I'm not happy with this.
You guys like, you know, you could point out stuff like they
haven't met their own goals.
You can look at their objectives for public safety.
They publish them and they say, we have failed on community safety.
It's very clear.
They, they show like they have metrics.
You can say, Hey, you are not meeting your standards here.
What's going on.
You can point out things like, you know, 10 percent of their operational budget at
this point is consumed by the gun buyback.
Like not even 10 percent of our total federal spending on operational
budgets for public safety just goes to our guns, not criminal stuff,
you know, just this, um, and that's before they even bought one back.
So, you know, you can point this stuff out.
And I think, um, It, you just need that, it might work, it might make them feel
uncomfortable, might make them realize that like they're not working in a vacuum.
The people whose lives they're impacting want to have something to say about it.
Um, it also, you just need that one person.
Yeah.
Like you, you might just, you might just hit that one person at
public safety who goes, Yeah, this actually doesn't make a lot of sense.
You know what?
I think I actually am going to bring this up with my director because
this is silly and they're right.
You know, um, I don't know if it's likely, but, um, I mean, I just
fought with the government yesterday trying to get access to the con for
the actual media briefing there.
Um, and that was with the parliamentary press gallery.
They hung up on me three times.
Um, what?
Yeah, they just didn't want to give me access.
I, I emailed them.
So this is totally tangential to the document.
And
Travis Bader: you got proper media credentials, but yeah.
Daniel Fritter: I emailed them to say, I'd like access to the press
conference and technical briefing, because I might want to ask questions.
Um, cause I received the, the press release from the government saying, if
you're not part of the parliamentary press gallery, email us to get access.
So I did, I didn't hear back.
I let a few hours go by and then I started calling them cause it happens at a time.
If you don't get access, you miss it.
Um, and yeah, they, the, the, the They, the lady just hung up on me three times.
She literally pulled the, I'm getting another call.
I have to go click.
Travis Bader: And I was
Daniel Fritter: like, This, this conference starts in 10 minutes.
I have a gun magazine.
This is a gun announcement, you know, um, they told me that I could
watch it on CPAC and I said, yeah, but I can't ask a question on CPAC.
Travis Bader: You know,
Daniel Fritter: it's, it's not the same thing.
Um, I did eventually get the zoom link, but it was too late.
Obviously I missed the technical briefing.
Um, but yeah, like you just got to keep, I called them back.
It took six phone calls, three of which they hung up on me,
Travis Bader: but
Daniel Fritter: eventually I talked to her boss and I made it pretty
fricking clear that I was not happy with the level of service.
And you know, he said they were going to take it under advisement.
He was very interested to hear what I had to say and I'm pursuing
that still, but be persistent.
You know, I can't remember who said it, but you know, it's really hard
to beat someone who won't quit.
Yeah.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
I like that saying a lot and having a level of personal accountability, if you
can hold those individuals accountable, if they know, Hey, I'm dealing with Daniel
Fritter here and maybe I shouldn't hang up or get another call and lose them.
Daniel Fritter: Like I, I, you know, I, again, not that this is
gun related, but I was pissed off cause I mean, she was very rude.
Um, I was equally rude the first time to be clear, quite clear.
I called the, I called her back actually to apologize the third
time when she hung up on me, but I called to say, Hey, I'm sorry.
Like, Hey, you know, this is your job getting access to this.
You know, I'm media.
What is the deal here?
Um, because they, they definitely did not want to give me access.
Um, I've also not been able to access any of the briefings with public safety
ministers since I, since I, Attended one with Marco Medici, you know, when I
asked him a question and it went quite poorly and, uh, for him, I would say, um,
they never allowed me back in, uh, they didn't hold them actually after that.
And it's not like a sense of ego.
It's, it's not that I'm Dan Fritter is that you are the
parliamentary press gallery.
Your job is to ensure that the people making these
announcements are accountable.
And that the people who want to hold them to account are in attendance and able
to ask questions and say, why this, why that, what's this, you know, get clarity.
Like I do view it as my job as media to do that and no one
else is going to global news.
Isn't going to, they don't have the technical knowledge under the background,
the context to, to ask the questions that I would have liked to have asked.
Um, but yeah, so I mean, it sucks that I missed out on it, but it is a testament
to, if you just keep, just keep calling.
Don't let up.
Um, eventually, and make your case in a clear and salient, you know, like,
yeah, I am a member of the press.
My audience is directly impacted by this announcement.
I think I should be there to ask questions on their behalf.
Eventually you will get through.
So,
Travis Bader: I think, and just to be clear, I don't, for one second view you
as a person who has ego or wields that, but I, I think the, uh, the civil servants
or the public servants who are, uh, if They realize that there is going to be a
level of accountability to their actions.
If every individual out there takes to social media and says, yeah,
you know, I had a great experience.
I talked to this person I got on through and, or I didn't get through
and I had to call three times.
And in fact, you know, I recorded the single party consent law in
Canada allows it like if they realize there's that higher level of scrutiny
and that the individual can be held accountable for their actions.
I think you'll see more progress.
The, the simple approach for somebody is Would be to simply ignore you,
but the second they're pushed into a position where they have to say,
no, that they now have a level of accountability, the actions of that.
No, we'll now rest on their shoulders.
So what I often see is that civil servants will just find ways to be able to.
Postpone an answer to delay something out.
If you're trying to push them for the yes.
Well, good luck getting that.
Yes.
You can tacitly get a yes.
Like I'm going to do this on this date, unless you tell me otherwise, right.
But please do, but I need to do this because my business
operates, blah, blah, blah.
All of a sudden you can find your issue gets pushed forward.
So I think if individuals are able to push people for firm positions for a firm, no.
Or be able to turn that, uh, ignoring into something that they then have to wear.
Individuals will see how much power they actually have.
Daniel Fritter: And that's exactly what happened is, is they kept telling
me this lady that worked at the parliamentary press gallery kept her,
her reply on the phone was constantly just send an email to this person,
the director, we'll get back to you.
And I'm going, it's happening in 10 minutes.
Can I not just call the director?
I'm sure.
It's the middle of a work day, you know, um, can't I just speak with them?
Because you said, send an email, which I did.
And I haven't gotten an answer for three hours.
I kind of need one in the next 10 minutes.
Um, you know, they kept, you know, she was, no, you can't.
The director's number is personal.
And I was like, well, he's got to have a professional number.
I'm sure that like he works for the government, he's got a government phone.
Like we all know this.
Um, and eventually that's what it took was me eventually saying like, I will find
your director and I will contact them.
Or you can just, Patch me through, you know, um, and that's
eventually what ended up happening.
Of course, she did put it in terms of the director called me back because he had
heard that I was rude to her on the phone.
Travis Bader: And
Daniel Fritter: that was the reason I was like, I, I just want to get
into the frigging press conference.
It started 15 minutes ago, like, you know, but, uh, yeah, you'd be the squeaky wheel.
Like I said, be the squeaky wheel, go to your MP, become a regular person
that they know, because, um, I mean, I've even had some liberal MPs that,
you know, You know, I don't agree with their politics, but they're nice people.
Like they're just, most mps are nice people.
Travis Bader: Yep.
Daniel Fritter: Their job is to be likable.
Like quite literally, their job is to be likable, so most of them are,
are not going to be complete jerks.
There are some that Mark Holland, who probably won't be that nice.
Mark Garson.
Um, some are just probably not the most intelligent Justin Trudeau and.
You're probably not going to get many places with those folks, but for the
majority of us, um, it's out there and even there, like I'd said earlier,
if we're going to be looking at this leadership campaign in the next year
and we're going to have new, new party leadership on the NDP and the liberal
like some of the MPs that are currently sitting with those parties will still
be there after the next election, probably a lot less than are there now,
but some of them will still be around.
And what that also means is the ones that are around will become the old guard.
They will become.
The core of the party's identity, so if it's NDP or liberal and you start
to get to know them and you start to talk with them about these issues,
um, if on a political level they can't support what we want because they've
got to tow Justin Trudeau's line, after Justin Trudeau leaves, They might
be more likely to and when they're looking at their next leadership If
you're not gonna get a membership in the Liberal Party, it's free.
We could all do it.
It would be really easy If we don't want to do that, you don't want to do that You
can at least know that by reaching out to your MP and being the squeaky wheel And
telling them our concerns and saying these issues about how these bans your party
is passing are harming our community, like, not just us, but the, the community
they're riding in very real terms, um, if they're around after the next election,
they might then turn around and if their next leader were to be someone that, you
know, gun owners don't like, and he'd stand up, he goes, I'm going to ban all
the guns that this old guard might turn around in the caucus meeting and say,
Hey, actually, that's not a great idea.
We did that.
We tried it.
I got a lot of people in my office.
They were not happy and it didn't work.
And they made a lot of pretty strong arguments about why it isn't working.
And that might, you know, diffuse this whole situation, bring it back
to a more pragmatic kind of logical perspective rather than this,
you know, votes back and forth.
Um, so that's where I know a lot of people will say like, Oh, I've got a liberal MP.
There's no point.
There, there is, there is a very real point.
I mean, a lot of them will probably be gone, but some of them won't be.
And, and those ones that remain, it'd be very good if we had a better, um,
open channel of communication with them.
And if they had a better understanding of where we're at, I think would be, would be
a pretty big step in the right direction.
Travis Bader: And this is why I like chatting with you.
You're a sharp cookie.
Is there anything that, that you We haven't talked about that.
We should be talking about.
Um, the only thing that
Daniel Fritter: we haven't really broached is, um, I have some concerns
about gun clubs throughout all of this.
Obviously there's been lots of discussion about how this
is going to hurt the industry.
Um, you know, we might have to change.
I don't know if caliber will be as available at gun stores, or
maybe we'll be subscription only.
I'm not sure, but we're going to have to take some serious
look at that after I talk to.
Our advertisers, cause that's obviously kind of core of the business.
So we'll see, um, retailers are going to get a hit.
Prices are going to go up, unfortunately, because, uh, these are, these are
kind of the enthusiast guns is where a lot of the profit, not margin, but
overall profit comes from, uh, and by not having access to these, that's
where I say, like, I worry about what things will look like afterwards is
even if these become legal again.
Um, we might have less shops, it'll be harder to get by, they're going to have
to make profit elsewhere, so things will potentially get more expensive.
But I'm worried a lot about gun clubs.
Um, when the handgun ban happened, the AR 15 thing kind of hurt clubs, the
handgun ban also really hurt clubs.
We went, for example, here in Kelowna, the club that I was a
president of and belonged to, we saw really steady growth in membership.
up to our cap constantly.
Um, we've seen a bit of a decline.
We're not struggling, but, you know, it's a pretty big town here.
There are some gun clubs that might Uh, in lieu of this, given there's no more
vastly reduced amount of competitive shooting, that gun clubs are going to
be struggling a bit, potentially in, you know, first half of next year, if members
don't renew because they can't take their, you know, semi auto, whatever it
is to go plink steel like they used to.
Um, I don't know what the solution is.
I would just kind of say, like, maybe if you are one of those people,
like, your gun club is a very real asset for you and your community.
I guess gun owners, but as, as a community, you know, maybe
your police go there and shoot.
And I know that's a controversial subject because they're also the ones
that might come knock on your door and people, there's that argument of maybe
we shouldn't let cops go to gun clubs, but at the same time, if you ever need
to call the police and should you need them to have a gun, you kind of want
them to know how to use it really well.
So part of me also thinks for our community safety, uh, they should be
proficient and they use our clubs.
Um, it's where I've met a lot of friends at gun clubs.
I've made a ton of friends at gun clubs.
And so if that's you, I know times are type of maybe, you know, maybe
just renew, know that it'll, it'll work out in the long run and you'll be
able to take your hopefully AR 15 or M14 back to the range eventually, um,
volunteer, they're, they're going to be hurting quite a lot at that level.
And I think that, um, if gun owners can maybe.
Take that into, into, uh, into mind and do what they can to try to help out.
Um, it'd be great to see clubs kind of come back.
That'd be a great place for people to have these conversations.
Like we talked about with the organizations being great at
disseminating information.
Gun clubs are a great place for the exchange of information, for gun
owners to talk about this stuff.
I mean, You know, you can't take these things to the range, but at
the same time, uh, they haven't sent you a letter saying you can't, and
they can't send you a letter because Canada Post won't deliver it right now.
Right.
So how, if, if you were at the gun club with one of these guns, I don't know
how the police would ever prove that you were supposed to know that it was
illegal, given this is kind of, you know, It's a website on public safety.
It's not even an RCMP thing at this point.
So, um, not saying you should, but you know, it's a good place.
You will probably go to the gun club and you will probably see people shooting
these guns because they just don't know.
There's a lot of people that will not be informed.
Travis Bader: And
Daniel Fritter: that's where I mean, it's a good place to exchange this
stuff and say, Hey, look, like, you know, You know, that's actually illegal.
I'm not saying don't do it because you know, I'm not one of those range
Nazis, but if people don't know they can't get involved and uh, it'd be
good to, to see clubs kind of maybe use this as a catalyst to become more
of a gun, not just a gun facility, not a place to just shoot your guns,
but be a club, an actual social club.
You know, the game dinners that happen every Christmas, the
potlucks like become a social club.
Um, it would be a very strong asset for us.
Travis Bader: You know, it's always kind of struck and it's very well said, I could
almost just, I should just stop on that, but there's that one thing in the back
of my head, it's always struck me why the governments haven't used the gun clubs
as more of a means to enhance public.
Safety is how they can sell it, but essentially enhanced control.
And they'd make that a part of the whole licensing system, like they
have in other countries and they say, okay, so who is this guy?
Like, I know for me, I've been called in by firearms officers in the past and like
Trav, you know, wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
If someone's kind of off, like if you just don't give them their paperwork, when
they go through a firearm safety course, it makes our job a heck of a lot easier.
Right.
Because once, once they have that paperwork, Uh, our hands are
really tied in our re the ways that we can now deny the person.
So, okay, yeah, no, I hear you.
But the same thing can be done with the clubs, right?
Tell you what, you want to get your license.
You have to be involved with the club.
The clubs want to know that you're of sound mind of good judgment, because
it'll reflect poorly on the club.
If something goes astray with one of their members and maybe you get
too many infractions and we'll shut your club down, like it seems to me
like not only a perfect way to do it.
Build clubs and communities, but also a way for the firearms program to exercise
that extra little level of control.
Um, put all of the training online for the fire and safety course, but go
to a club for some practical, right?
Have your licensed clubs and people who are, who are vetted and authorized.
And I mean, there's going to be logistical issues there.
But I'll just throw that out there for perhaps future governments to
look at because that would strengthen our clubs, strengthen the, the
social aspect in our communities.
It has some negatives as well, but I think the positives of all of
that would outweigh the negatives.
Daniel Fritter: I think it's, I think it'd be tricky just based on.
Like density and having like, when I first got, when I got my license from silver
core, like 20 years ago, it was, I was living in Tawasin and the closest club
that I could get into was Abbotsford.
And it's like, you know, that's a two hour drive for those that don't know.
And haven't endured that particularly loathsome trip down highway one.
Um, it's a long trip and there's, there's not a lot of clubs and now living in
Kelowna, we've got three of them and they're relatively close, which is
nice, but you know, you go to some.
some smaller communities like Rock Creek, you know, I don't even know
if there's a gun club down there.
Um, but you know, you get into this, how would you own a gun in those,
those areas with no access to a club?
What I would like to see is clubs.
And this isn't just this again, not to speak about the organizations
because I think they all do great work and want them to succeed, obviously,
but I don't, as a guy that was the president of a club, I was always
shocked at how little, um, cooperation and support there is for clubs.
Because I came into a club that was pretty derelict.
It had 34 members at the time, uh, primarily black powder guys, actually.
Um, and They were going bankrupt and stuff.
So it was going poorly, basically.
And I got shoved into the presidency by my good friend, Chris Weber over
at Weber and Markin here in Kelowna.
Uh, he was, he pulled the old, you should come out to the AGM and then stuck my hand
up when they did the call for president.
And then I immediately went, what the fuck do I do?
Like everything from legal requirements of like, uh, members, pal numbers,
recording those, the CFO inspection, which was a year out of date.
Yeah.
to bookkeeping, to what service can we use to actually collect membership dues?
What's a good system by which we can onboard members in a largely online
fashion while still ensuring they understand the property, the usage,
they get their physical key, etc.
That was all, there's nothing and there still isn't.
Like, I don't know if other provinces might have this, but BC, dude, the
clubs, thankfully I, I knew the guys over at Abbotsford Fishing Game
Club really well, called up Rob all the time and just basically, yeah.
How do I run a club?
How do you run this club?
I want to, I want to run a club like that.
And he was a great source, but if I didn't have that contact, I would have been
just feeling my way through the dark.
And one thing it's, I don't know if, let me see if I can one second.
Yeah.
I don't know if I've shown this for, but this is kind of the thing
that, that always surprises me is I got this at a used bookstore, um,
And it is the lower mainland gun association of British Columbia manual.
It was put out in 1948, I want to say by a collection of gun clubs.
And it, it basically has everything from like the tide tables in Delta for
water fouling to, uh, basic first aid to, you know, what, what identifying
different kinds of game, how to cut up a deer, like really basic stuff.
Um, and I don't, I've looked into the association since, cause I think
it's a really cool idea of like a.
An association of clubs, like not a, not a lobby organization, but
like a very realistic association that just helps clubs do club stuff.
Um, because I think that there is a lot of room if there's 1 area
that our community could do better.
Um, I think it's with clubs because like I look at, for example, the club that I was
the president of, I have a photo album.
It's been around since 1980 something.
Um, it was built for the BC summer games.
And in the photo album, you can see literally, it was a social club.
There are dances, there's wives in, in dresses with cocktail
parties that the club put together.
It was so much more than just a place to go and shoot.
Um, And I think that's, you know, the government can do what
the government's going to do.
We can try and do what we can by contacting your MP
and doing all that stuff.
But one thing we absolutely have complete control over is the clubs
and facilities that we operate for ourselves and what they do.
And they, they don't need to just be a range, you know, like, and
it'd be so much nicer if we had that community of I'm going to the club
and I'm meeting up with my buddies.
You know, like that kind of thing.
And I think that's one area where, you know, I'd love to see clubs kind of band
together, um, maybe not like a mandated, like you need to have a membership to
be one, but to see the clubs that exist already reach out to one rather and
build a network and, and ask each other, Hey, what's the best thing you've done?
What's the worst thing you've done?
Cause we want to not do one of those and who do you want to do the other one?
Um, and start to grow that way.
Cause I think, uh, a lot of clubs, it would be really nice.
I think that'd be a very strong.
Grassroots thing that, uh, I'd like to see happen
Travis Bader: for everyone.
That's made it this far in this podcast.
I'd like you to write in the comments.
If you are involved with your club and you have seen things that have worked
really well, or things that didn't work well, maybe just get that ball rolling.
That's a great idea, Dan.
I love it.
Daniel Fritter: Yeah.
I mean, even as far as just like, some clubs have really great steel shooting
facilities in and they built them in ways that like other clubs don't even know.
Like I'd love to have steel at our gun club, but we've struggled with
trying to figure out how to get it in place where people can't steal it.
It doesn't get damaged, you know?
Travis Bader: I
Daniel Fritter: would love to hear, um, if there are people that are at clubs
that have steel silhouettes installed, like, even that very technical, basic
stuff, like, that's what I think we all need to share because I think
that's, that's the stuff that is really hard to do on a daily basis.
And again, clubs are all run by volunteers.
They're not, you know, Very few of them are run by people
that are paid to do the job.
So it has to be kind of easy.
You know, when I was the president, I did the best I could because I
felt obligated to obviously, but you know, am I going to spend three days
researching how to install steel plates on a gun range when I've got work to do?
Kids, this is a volunteer organization.
Like I'm already overworked by the club as it is.
We're trying to figure out how to get garbage down the mountain.
Like it's gotta be, we can make it easier for everyone.
Everyone benefits.
Travis Bader: Well, Dan, thank you so much again, as always love chatting with you.
I love your perspective on it.
Um, let's make the next podcast.
We do a happy one.
Not that there isn't happy things in here, but let's make it, uh, not spurred by.
The government putting more bans on it.
Daniel Fritter: I sure would love a good news one.
Travis Bader: Yes.
Daniel Fritter: Thank you.
Thank you.