1 00:00:02,638 --> 00:00:04,228 Hi, this is George Sandman. 2 00:00:04,228 --> 00:00:11,058 I am the founder and CEO of Growth Drive, and this is the Business Advisor Hot Seat. 3 00:00:11,058 --> 00:00:14,818 In the hot seat, you're going to hear from industry leaders and thought leaders as 4 00:00:14,818 --> 00:00:19,958 they share their victories and failures building advisory businesses, helping you 5 00:00:19,958 --> 00:00:23,622 and your colleagues, and helping clients get the results they want. 6 00:00:25,774 --> 00:00:30,024 I'm also the author of the Growth Driving Advisor, Proven Strategies for Leading 7 00:00:30,024 --> 00:00:32,444 Businesses from Stuck to Best in Class. 8 00:00:32,444 --> 00:00:37,654 And in this book, we share a methodology and process for leading clients to growing 9 00:00:37,654 --> 00:00:40,054 profits and transferable value. 10 00:00:40,054 --> 00:00:42,574 It's available on Amazon and Kindle. 11 00:00:43,254 --> 00:00:46,504 And if you like it, please be sure to leave a positive review. 12 00:00:49,518 --> 00:00:53,988 This week, our guest is my friend Francis Brown, who's a strategic advisor with 13 00:00:53,988 --> 00:00:55,378 Brown Advisory. 14 00:00:55,398 --> 00:00:57,478 Francis is an attorney by training. 15 00:00:57,478 --> 00:01:01,958 He is a wealth advisor by avocation. 16 00:01:01,958 --> 00:01:05,518 He is a member of the AM &AA. 17 00:01:05,518 --> 00:01:11,568 He is a credentialed exit planner, one of the most knowledgeable and deeply 18 00:01:11,568 --> 00:01:15,998 thoughtful guys I know, a good friend, and a great guy. 19 00:01:15,998 --> 00:01:17,678 So here we go. 20 00:01:25,870 --> 00:01:28,250 This episode is brought to you by Growth Drive. 21 00:01:28,250 --> 00:01:32,910 Growth Drive is the number one best -selling business advising platform with 22 00:01:32,910 --> 00:01:38,230 training, technology, and support you need to get the success you want. 23 00:01:38,230 --> 00:01:43,010 Find a way to engagements, expand your reach and impact, and build a thriving 24 00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:46,370 advisory business based on delivering client wins. 25 00:01:46,370 --> 00:01:50,910 Growth Drive, find out more at growthdrive .com. 26 00:01:56,981 --> 00:01:57,401 Okay. 27 00:01:57,401 --> 00:01:58,661 Well, welcome everyone. 28 00:01:58,661 --> 00:02:03,444 And this week, our guest in the hot seat is Francis Brown. 29 00:02:03,444 --> 00:02:07,806 Francis Brown is with Brown Advisory in Washington, DC. 30 00:02:07,806 --> 00:02:09,127 No relation. 31 00:02:09,287 --> 00:02:12,609 And Francis, you and I have known each other for a long time. 32 00:02:12,989 --> 00:02:15,251 You want to just give yourself a little introduction. 33 00:02:15,251 --> 00:02:17,091 You'd probably do a better job than I do. 34 00:02:17,612 --> 00:02:21,954 So Francis Brown, I am a strategic advisor 35 00:02:27,277 --> 00:02:32,238 work with high-net-worth families, clients, particularly business owners on 36 00:02:32,238 --> 00:02:39,560 trying to help them manage their wealth and prepare for that next phase, including 37 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,621 legacy planning, advanced planning, and particularly for business owners, what 38 00:02:44,621 --> 00:02:48,562 they're going to do in anticipation of some future event. 39 00:02:48,963 --> 00:02:49,923 Yeah, absolutely. 40 00:02:49,923 --> 00:02:53,744 And you're a CBEC, right? 41 00:02:54,404 --> 00:02:55,865 A certified business exit. 42 00:02:55,865 --> 00:02:57,005 consultant. 43 00:02:59,626 --> 00:02:59,746 Yep. 44 00:02:59,746 --> 00:03:05,327 And I think you and I met years ago when you were with a bank actually at the time. 45 00:03:05,327 --> 00:03:07,008 I was. 46 00:03:07,008 --> 00:03:10,429 And yeah, we've been working together for a long time. 47 00:03:10,729 --> 00:03:12,209 We have some great conversations. 48 00:03:12,209 --> 00:03:17,551 You're also, you've participated in our growth specialist certification. 49 00:03:17,591 --> 00:03:18,551 Thank you. 50 00:03:18,831 --> 00:03:23,352 And actually, you're the guy, we might as well, we were just talking before we came 51 00:03:23,352 --> 00:03:24,253 on the air. 52 00:03:24,469 --> 00:03:29,772 You are the man who came up with the, are the, you stopped the certification like, 53 00:03:29,772 --> 00:03:30,932 well, wait a second. 54 00:03:31,573 --> 00:03:34,394 Who in here is a one and who in here is a five? 55 00:03:34,394 --> 00:03:37,976 And you want to just share your perspective on what that means? 56 00:03:38,457 --> 00:03:43,480 So I was in a room with a bunch of consultants and everybody was getting into 57 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,981 the weeds about what they were going to do to help a client solve a problem. 58 00:03:47,042 --> 00:03:51,344 And I had to stop to come for conversation and say, okay, I'm a one, maybe a two at 59 00:03:51,344 --> 00:03:52,124 best. 60 00:03:52,161 --> 00:03:58,602 And in terms of the level of involvement and helping a business owner identify and 61 00:03:58,602 --> 00:04:03,083 then work towards a plan and ultimately solve that particular problem. 62 00:04:03,083 --> 00:04:07,084 And most of the folks in the room wanted to be a four, if not a five. 63 00:04:07,085 --> 00:04:10,145 And I said, wait, I want to be a one or a two at best. 64 00:04:10,145 --> 00:04:15,067 And so I think that helped frame the conversation and it crossed the various 65 00:04:15,067 --> 00:04:20,568 ways that the group was looking to work with business owners about, did you want 66 00:04:20,568 --> 00:04:21,705 to be a one or 67 00:04:21,705 --> 00:04:23,926 five in this particular area. 68 00:04:24,367 --> 00:04:25,168 Yeah, absolutely. 69 00:04:25,168 --> 00:04:26,409 And that's something we've picked up. 70 00:04:26,409 --> 00:04:32,714 And anyone who's watched our videos or read it, in fact, it made it into my book. 71 00:04:32,714 --> 00:04:36,737 Well, one is someone who wants to talk about, typically just talk about exit 72 00:04:36,737 --> 00:04:37,577 planning. 73 00:04:38,118 --> 00:04:43,743 Two is someone who wants to educate their client about the value of their largest 74 00:04:43,743 --> 00:04:44,844 asset, their business. 75 00:04:44,844 --> 00:04:45,785 But they just want to educate. 76 00:04:45,785 --> 00:04:47,506 They don't want to do anything about it. 77 00:04:47,506 --> 00:04:48,767 Fair, right? 78 00:04:49,088 --> 00:04:50,528 And then we have our... 79 00:04:51,081 --> 00:04:57,843 When I say not do, you want to godfather the process or sponsor the process, but 80 00:04:57,843 --> 00:04:59,563 you're not going to get involved in... 81 00:04:59,563 --> 00:05:03,164 You're not going to roll up your sleeves, lift the hood, and start figuring out 82 00:05:03,164 --> 00:05:04,865 what's going on inside the business. 83 00:05:04,865 --> 00:05:09,586 You believe in collaborative accountability, right? 84 00:05:09,586 --> 00:05:12,947 Working with other like-minded advisors. 85 00:05:12,967 --> 00:05:17,068 Who would be a three, an architect, a four, the general contractor taking the 86 00:05:17,068 --> 00:05:19,248 blueprint and turning it into a building? 87 00:05:19,909 --> 00:05:24,190 and even the fives, which are fractional C-suite execs. 88 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:27,391 I have that about right, right? 89 00:05:27,471 --> 00:05:28,891 Well, it's funny you said that. 90 00:05:28,891 --> 00:05:33,972 You've refined it from what we came up with that day, but no, I think that's 91 00:05:33,972 --> 00:05:34,793 exactly right. 92 00:05:34,793 --> 00:05:38,534 And the point being is that it helped everybody focus on really what we're 93 00:05:38,534 --> 00:05:41,354 trying to get out of the conference and what we're trying to get out of helping 94 00:05:41,354 --> 00:05:42,415 business owners. 95 00:05:42,415 --> 00:05:43,615 Yeah, absolutely. 96 00:05:43,615 --> 00:05:47,416 And which is something you guys are really, really good at. 97 00:05:47,416 --> 00:05:48,941 You have a proven track record of... 98 00:05:48,941 --> 00:05:51,424 of helping them get where they want to go. 99 00:05:56,429 --> 00:06:05,416 You focus on this, on growing profits and value, but from a wealth advisory 100 00:06:05,416 --> 00:06:13,342 perspective, which is incredibly powerful and cool. 101 00:06:14,424 --> 00:06:19,708 You wanna just talk about the types of things that you help people and families 102 00:06:19,708 --> 00:06:20,828 accomplish? 103 00:06:21,590 --> 00:06:25,285 Well, I come at it from the perspective of the bulk of wealth managers. 104 00:06:25,285 --> 00:06:29,006 financial advisors are happy to sit back and say, George, when you sell your 105 00:06:29,006 --> 00:06:32,807 company, we're happy to invest the funds, give us a call. 106 00:06:33,828 --> 00:06:39,711 And I realized that, yeah, that's one way to approach it, but realized through 107 00:06:39,711 --> 00:06:44,132 watching a lot of business owners make mistakes, I'll call predictable mistakes, 108 00:06:45,293 --> 00:06:48,975 by getting out in front of the curve, so to speak, and helping them saying, here 109 00:06:48,975 --> 00:06:52,296 are some of the mistakes that we've seen others make, and we'd like to try and help 110 00:06:52,296 --> 00:06:53,777 you avoid those, because 111 00:06:53,777 --> 00:06:57,878 They're predictable, they're avoidable, just takes a little time and energy. 112 00:06:58,179 --> 00:07:02,281 From the business owner's perspective, they're so busy working on their business, 113 00:07:02,281 --> 00:07:04,382 they don't ever have time to work in it. 114 00:07:05,303 --> 00:07:10,406 So the idea being, if we can get to them, and I'll take it outside of that three to 115 00:07:10,406 --> 00:07:14,668 five year timeframe, just get to them early enough to be able to say, here are 116 00:07:14,668 --> 00:07:16,769 some things that you should think about. 117 00:07:16,769 --> 00:07:20,791 I call it getting them transaction ready, getting themselves and their business 118 00:07:20,791 --> 00:07:21,812 transaction ready. 119 00:07:21,812 --> 00:07:23,132 So it's... 120 00:07:23,309 --> 00:07:29,013 Well, it's wadable that they would want to create an exit plan or some plan that 121 00:07:29,013 --> 00:07:31,474 tells them all the steps they need to go through. 122 00:07:31,735 --> 00:07:34,977 I found it more useful to just say, hey, here are the things that you want to do 123 00:07:34,977 --> 00:07:36,518 before you go to market. 124 00:07:36,518 --> 00:07:40,741 So let's get out of that three to five year timeframe. 125 00:07:41,122 --> 00:07:44,284 Because most of them, if you say I want to grow my business to 20 million or X 126 00:07:44,284 --> 00:07:47,346 million, that's going to take me six years. 127 00:07:48,107 --> 00:07:50,208 But then they get that unsolicited phone call. 128 00:07:50,208 --> 00:07:51,088 They go from. 129 00:07:51,993 --> 00:07:53,914 a six-year plan to a six-month plan. 130 00:07:53,914 --> 00:07:57,677 And so that three to five-year timeframe went out the door immediately. 131 00:07:57,677 --> 00:08:02,180 So by changing that to say, hey, let's focus on what you need to do before you go 132 00:08:02,180 --> 00:08:06,963 to market, from my perspective, is a better approach. 133 00:08:06,963 --> 00:08:11,507 So the idea being, George, before you go to market, let's help you figure out what 134 00:08:11,507 --> 00:08:13,988 you need to do individually. 135 00:08:14,229 --> 00:08:16,210 How much do you need to get out of this? 136 00:08:16,210 --> 00:08:19,812 What are you gonna do post-sale, post-transaction? 137 00:08:20,101 --> 00:08:21,422 And is your business ready? 138 00:08:21,422 --> 00:08:25,325 And as you and I have talked about numerous times, a lot of business owners 139 00:08:25,325 --> 00:08:29,568 had to market almost like it's retired, like they're going to sell their house. 140 00:08:29,669 --> 00:08:29,889 Right. 141 00:08:29,889 --> 00:08:33,672 And it ends up that what your business isn't really ready to get the kind of 142 00:08:33,672 --> 00:08:34,913 multiples that you want. 143 00:08:34,913 --> 00:08:38,556 So whether you're pulling your business back off the market, or you're being told 144 00:08:38,556 --> 00:08:42,019 you're just not ready, uh, there's a lot of frustration out there. 145 00:08:42,019 --> 00:08:47,363 So by helping you ahead of the curve, so to speak, we can say, here are the things 146 00:08:47,363 --> 00:08:49,349 you need to do to make you. 147 00:08:49,349 --> 00:08:53,049 to make it a better transaction, a better process for you. 148 00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:59,992 Yeah, and it's better for the people on a personal level and it's, I think, better 149 00:08:59,992 --> 00:09:06,473 on a professional level because these transactions are incredibly stressful, 150 00:09:06,473 --> 00:09:08,494 right? 151 00:09:08,494 --> 00:09:09,694 Very stressful. 152 00:09:10,034 --> 00:09:15,196 Well, and as you know, I think the stats say that for every 10 business owners that 153 00:09:15,196 --> 00:09:17,433 show up to an investment banker's office, 154 00:09:17,433 --> 00:09:19,413 let's say two to three are actually ready. 155 00:09:19,413 --> 00:09:24,035 So there's a significant category who aren't ready. 156 00:09:24,736 --> 00:09:28,217 Even the ones who do go to market and are deemed market ready, they may not 157 00:09:28,217 --> 00:09:31,279 ultimately end up getting the results that they wanted. 158 00:09:31,299 --> 00:09:36,061 So by spending that time ahead of, by helping them ahead of time, it's 159 00:09:36,661 --> 00:09:42,764 identifying those obstacles, those issues that potentially derail their process or 160 00:09:42,764 --> 00:09:44,121 their transaction. 161 00:09:44,121 --> 00:09:46,182 So the idea is to help them have a better outcome. 162 00:09:46,182 --> 00:09:48,163 And so it's ultimately better for them. 163 00:09:48,363 --> 00:09:52,126 I think it's ultimately also better for a wealth management firm, because if we can 164 00:09:52,126 --> 00:09:55,828 help you have a better outcome on the front end, our interests are aligned. 165 00:09:56,009 --> 00:10:02,052 There's a lot of advisor, oh, what's the term? 166 00:10:04,037 --> 00:10:09,318 Bias maybe is the right word in terms of professional bias in terms of what they 167 00:10:09,318 --> 00:10:10,158 wanna do. 168 00:10:10,158 --> 00:10:14,020 An investment banker, they're there to help you sell your business, which is what 169 00:10:14,020 --> 00:10:18,641 you want them for, but they may lose sight of what you really wanna get out of that 170 00:10:18,641 --> 00:10:21,902 and it becomes the A or B, how do you prioritize? 171 00:10:22,002 --> 00:10:25,843 Our job is to be there, be that little bird on your shoulder, so to speak, to 172 00:10:25,843 --> 00:10:29,584 help keep things aligned in terms of what you wanna accomplish out of that 173 00:10:29,584 --> 00:10:30,704 transaction. 174 00:10:30,713 --> 00:10:31,373 That's interesting. 175 00:10:31,373 --> 00:10:33,834 You're almost like a conscience and a reminder. 176 00:10:35,655 --> 00:10:36,795 What's the word? 177 00:10:37,355 --> 00:10:42,477 I mean, you're really helping to make sure they keep their eye on the right price. 178 00:10:43,398 --> 00:10:47,799 And there's a lot of heartache when guys, when women and men sell their business. 179 00:10:47,980 --> 00:10:53,802 There can be a lot of heartache about the process, the price, life after selling the 180 00:10:53,802 --> 00:10:56,723 business, all things that need to be thought of. 181 00:10:57,664 --> 00:11:00,024 And in fact, can we... 182 00:11:00,621 --> 00:11:03,742 Let's talk about value and communicating value for a second. 183 00:11:03,742 --> 00:11:10,625 And it was in a conversation with you that actually, I'll give you a credit for 184 00:11:10,625 --> 00:11:10,985 another. 185 00:11:10,985 --> 00:11:17,188 So you and I have these conversations and so often you're incredibly intelligent, 186 00:11:17,188 --> 00:11:18,748 experienced, et cetera. 187 00:11:18,748 --> 00:11:21,349 And which is why we've become such good friends. 188 00:11:21,469 --> 00:11:27,712 And you and I have come up with a number of, it was based on one comment that you 189 00:11:27,712 --> 00:11:29,373 made that we ended up with the 190 00:11:29,373 --> 00:11:36,535 big pyramid that has the, here's your business, here's your freedom from the 191 00:11:36,535 --> 00:11:39,776 business, here's your family, your stakeholders, your employees. 192 00:11:39,776 --> 00:11:43,697 That was one conversation and that gets used like crazy out there. 193 00:11:43,697 --> 00:11:47,798 The other one though that's close to home was you and I were having a conversation 194 00:11:47,798 --> 00:11:50,198 about how to communicate value. 195 00:11:50,198 --> 00:11:54,920 How do we help a business owner understand that, sure, you've created an asset that 196 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,120 could be worth $20 million. 197 00:11:57,529 --> 00:12:01,189 but you can only monetize 12 million of it. 198 00:12:01,250 --> 00:12:05,831 And that's a very important conversation to have, right? 199 00:12:05,831 --> 00:12:09,732 I mean, that's at the heart of the services that you provide. 200 00:12:10,112 --> 00:12:14,673 Well, a lot of that came, I'll turn that credit back around because one of our 201 00:12:14,673 --> 00:12:19,775 original conversations, you said that business owners looking to go to market, 202 00:12:19,775 --> 00:12:24,196 they can easily get a sense of the financial viability of the firm, you know, 203 00:12:24,196 --> 00:12:27,057 based on traditional methods, but nobody ever really talks about the- 204 00:12:27,057 --> 00:12:32,321 quality of their operation and they won't find out about how poor the quality is 205 00:12:32,321 --> 00:12:34,382 until they get through due diligence. 206 00:12:34,483 --> 00:12:37,285 And so, yeah, we're not right or not. 207 00:12:37,285 --> 00:12:43,150 Yeah to your point, they're not so really needed to focus on both Is there to be 208 00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:47,513 able to help them make sure that the business is transferable sustainable and 209 00:12:47,513 --> 00:12:48,954 ultimately sellable? 210 00:12:48,954 --> 00:12:49,635 Yeah. 211 00:12:49,635 --> 00:12:57,020 Yeah, I I'm obviously in deep agreement with that comment and uh and leading them 212 00:12:57,305 --> 00:12:58,885 a positive way to understand it. 213 00:12:58,885 --> 00:13:03,566 Listen, just because you can't monetize the value of that business now, let's be 214 00:13:03,566 --> 00:13:04,206 aware of it. 215 00:13:04,206 --> 00:13:10,188 Let's look it in the eye and then let's start looking at ways that you can do 216 00:13:10,188 --> 00:13:12,048 things that you can do about it. 217 00:13:12,229 --> 00:13:15,930 And I know that you do not get involved, or correct me if I'm wrong, but you do not 218 00:13:15,930 --> 00:13:19,571 get involved with here's what you can do about it, other than to say, here's some 219 00:13:19,571 --> 00:13:25,512 resources you might want to consult people, processes, et cetera. 220 00:13:28,865 --> 00:13:33,369 your process helps people connect the dots to understand here's the business value or 221 00:13:33,369 --> 00:13:36,612 here's what I have the business that has that relate to my personal goals. 222 00:13:36,612 --> 00:13:39,715 And being able to connect those two dots then creates the motivation and the 223 00:13:39,715 --> 00:13:44,679 urgency for them to say, okay, here's why I wanna spend the time bringing in senior 224 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:45,560 management, right? 225 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,544 They know what intuitive that they need to, but ultimately being able to connect 226 00:13:49,544 --> 00:13:55,148 those dots all the way back to their financial viability for their family. 227 00:13:56,041 --> 00:13:57,182 is really significant. 228 00:13:57,182 --> 00:14:01,826 And because they're so busy working, it's not always easy for them to see those dots 229 00:14:01,826 --> 00:14:04,248 and how they align and how they need to be connected. 230 00:14:04,629 --> 00:14:05,809 Absolutely. 231 00:14:06,871 --> 00:14:13,336 And, man, I just lost, I just, I had a, you just hit on a point that I has now 232 00:14:13,377 --> 00:14:14,498 left my head. 233 00:14:14,498 --> 00:14:22,104 But as they're having this, so you, one of the things that you do so well is to 234 00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:27,993 lead what we call the growth conversation, which is, hey, what does this business 235 00:14:27,993 --> 00:14:29,354 need to deliver? 236 00:14:29,855 --> 00:14:31,856 Where does this story go? 237 00:14:34,338 --> 00:14:38,281 Can you comment on that for a sec, how you start these conversations? 238 00:14:41,804 --> 00:14:46,969 I think there are a lot of people who know where they want to go, but maybe haven't 239 00:14:46,969 --> 00:14:47,669 really 240 00:14:52,109 --> 00:14:55,431 ever find that approach to be able to say, what are we really trying to accomplish 241 00:14:55,431 --> 00:14:56,131 here? 242 00:14:56,131 --> 00:15:00,033 And that may sound, you know, trite to a certain extent, but until you really 243 00:15:00,033 --> 00:15:04,035 understand, is this the problem we're trying to solve? 244 00:15:04,035 --> 00:15:07,077 I mean, business owners have got numerous problems, right? 245 00:15:07,077 --> 00:15:09,878 And so as a matter of solving problems, they're great ideas. 246 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:14,321 And I think if presented with I can save you $10,000, or I can find you $10,000, 247 00:15:15,002 --> 00:15:17,883 most of them are going to focus on, well, let me save the $10,000. 248 00:15:18,143 --> 00:15:20,304 So they're interested in solving problems. 249 00:15:20,589 --> 00:15:25,493 So to that extent, if we can help them understand, these are the different kinds 250 00:15:25,493 --> 00:15:29,617 of problems you have out there, which one of these do you really wanna solve? 251 00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:31,519 Is it a compelling problem? 252 00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:34,642 What's the cost of sticking with the status quo? 253 00:15:34,762 --> 00:15:38,946 And then being able to align that to all the other dots of how that helps them 254 00:15:38,946 --> 00:15:43,370 accomplish their goals and objectives that really creates the urgency for them to 255 00:15:43,370 --> 00:15:45,957 wanna do something about it and the motivation. 256 00:15:45,957 --> 00:15:49,017 to be able to stick with making whatever improvements they need to. 257 00:15:49,017 --> 00:15:53,139 And the example I was given before was bringing in the senior management team. 258 00:15:53,139 --> 00:15:54,919 So why do I need to do that? 259 00:15:54,919 --> 00:15:57,000 Well, they know they need to do that. 260 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,161 But as they can see that will help them ultimately sell the company and not have 261 00:16:00,161 --> 00:16:03,782 to stick around if they don't want to, or just makes the company more valuable. 262 00:16:03,782 --> 00:16:09,804 They intuitively know that, but having that sense of urgency makes it real for 263 00:16:09,804 --> 00:16:10,364 them. 264 00:16:10,364 --> 00:16:10,544 Yeah. 265 00:16:10,544 --> 00:16:12,484 It provides the emotional fuel. 266 00:16:12,865 --> 00:16:17,268 And it's interesting because what you're describing is helping them understand that 267 00:16:17,268 --> 00:16:19,429 they need to create an immortal business. 268 00:16:19,530 --> 00:16:24,414 Business is going to go on to be bigger, better, go on to greater glory, if you 269 00:16:24,414 --> 00:16:30,859 will, after they've left, which is sometimes hard as potentially the founder 270 00:16:30,859 --> 00:16:32,740 or as the CEO to understand. 271 00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:36,262 You need to create something that's going to be better. 272 00:16:39,101 --> 00:16:41,563 leave at some level the accountability stack. 273 00:16:41,563 --> 00:16:46,186 It's something we, a conversation we also had during your certification workshop 274 00:16:46,186 --> 00:16:51,110 that we now have in each certification workshop, which is for ourselves, let's 275 00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:53,512 talk about, do we want to do it? 276 00:16:53,512 --> 00:16:57,415 Does anybody in this room think they're going to retire? 277 00:16:57,415 --> 00:17:00,257 Or like retire, and stop working completely? 278 00:17:00,278 --> 00:17:02,980 And generally speaking, no hands go up, right? 279 00:17:02,980 --> 00:17:08,873 I mean, I'm never going to retire and stop doing this stuff. 280 00:17:08,873 --> 00:17:12,174 I am working hard as you may be as well. 281 00:17:12,174 --> 00:17:18,237 And as our business owners typically are on working on their own terms, doing the 282 00:17:18,237 --> 00:17:24,560 work they love on their own terms, for the amount of time they want to invest. 283 00:17:24,701 --> 00:17:29,043 And the name of the game becomes creating options. 284 00:17:29,623 --> 00:17:32,144 How do we create options for our clients? 285 00:17:34,822 --> 00:17:37,202 This episode is brought to you by Growth Drive. 286 00:17:37,202 --> 00:17:41,862 Growth Drive is the number one best -selling business advising platform with 287 00:17:41,862 --> 00:17:47,182 training, technology, and support you need to get the success you want. 288 00:17:47,182 --> 00:17:51,962 Find a way to engagements, expand your reach and impact, and build a thriving 289 00:17:51,962 --> 00:17:55,322 advisory business based on delivering client wins. 290 00:17:55,322 --> 00:17:59,862 Growth Drive, find out more at growthdrive .com. 291 00:18:18,464 --> 00:18:20,725 Yeah, I think it is about creating options for them. 292 00:18:20,725 --> 00:18:25,366 And a lot of times I don't think business owners have the time to reflect and think 293 00:18:25,366 --> 00:18:28,147 about where do they wanna go with this? 294 00:18:28,647 --> 00:18:32,568 I won't get this right, but I recall seeing a book years ago that talked about 295 00:18:32,568 --> 00:18:33,948 why do people get into business? 296 00:18:33,948 --> 00:18:36,249 Why do small business owners start their ventures? 297 00:18:36,249 --> 00:18:40,870 And a very small segment of them get into the business, the sole reason of creating 298 00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:45,148 an asset based on a rock solid idea and of growing that business. 299 00:18:45,148 --> 00:18:47,009 with the ultimate goal of selling that business. 300 00:18:47,009 --> 00:18:51,051 I think a lot get into it for the sole reason of, hey, I'm pretty good at this. 301 00:18:51,051 --> 00:18:54,933 I have a technical expertise and I'd rather start my own business than work for 302 00:18:54,933 --> 00:18:56,093 somebody else. 303 00:18:56,133 --> 00:18:59,475 And I think that's a significant portion of the segment of people who become 304 00:18:59,475 --> 00:19:00,656 business owners. 305 00:19:00,736 --> 00:19:05,038 And without that drive and motivation to say, I'm doing this for X number of years 306 00:19:05,038 --> 00:19:11,001 to hit X price, it's some of it's lifestyle, some of it's just personality, 307 00:19:11,001 --> 00:19:14,423 but they're the ones I think we can do a lot for 308 00:19:15,604 --> 00:19:19,647 They're in the business for the sole purpose of being in business, but haven't 309 00:19:19,647 --> 00:19:21,108 really thought about the end goal. 310 00:19:21,108 --> 00:19:25,712 And as you, if they contemplate those ultimate transition of that business, is 311 00:19:25,712 --> 00:19:28,535 it going to family friends or are they going to sell it? 312 00:19:28,535 --> 00:19:30,417 A lot of them are pretty indifferent. 313 00:19:30,417 --> 00:19:30,577 Yeah. 314 00:19:30,577 --> 00:19:32,538 They want to monetize that. 315 00:19:32,699 --> 00:19:33,899 But um, 316 00:19:35,908 --> 00:19:38,509 how they think of that in context of their overall family. 317 00:19:38,509 --> 00:19:40,790 It's the golden goose that's laying the golden eggs. 318 00:19:40,790 --> 00:19:43,912 And is the goose more important than the eggs? 319 00:19:43,912 --> 00:19:46,053 And a lot of them hadn't really thought about that. 320 00:19:46,053 --> 00:19:50,296 So a lot of those conversations, it's about what problem are we solving? 321 00:19:50,296 --> 00:19:51,076 Is it about the business? 322 00:19:51,076 --> 00:19:53,017 Is it about something to your family? 323 00:19:53,017 --> 00:19:55,278 What are you ultimately trying to do with this? 324 00:19:55,278 --> 00:20:01,001 And I think adding value is helping them get context for those conversations. 325 00:20:01,902 --> 00:20:03,803 They actually wanna do something about it. 326 00:20:03,903 --> 00:20:04,583 Yeah. 327 00:20:04,792 --> 00:20:11,577 It's funny, you remind me that you and I were together at the Business Enterprise 328 00:20:11,577 --> 00:20:15,921 Institute, BEI's conference in Denver here in August. 329 00:20:15,921 --> 00:20:20,665 And we ran into Ali, who is going to be a guest, Ali Taylor, who's going to be a 330 00:20:20,665 --> 00:20:23,548 guest on this show here in a couple of episodes. 331 00:20:23,548 --> 00:20:28,531 I interviewed John Brown, that's publishing right now. 332 00:20:28,672 --> 00:20:32,174 And Ali works... 333 00:20:33,296 --> 00:20:37,857 You've worked with her in the past, right? 334 00:20:37,857 --> 00:20:37,937 Yes. 335 00:20:37,937 --> 00:20:38,138 Mm-hmm. 336 00:20:38,138 --> 00:20:45,260 And so, Ali Taylor, ladies and gentlemen, is a very specialized psychologist who 337 00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:49,262 focuses on business owners and their families, right? 338 00:20:49,262 --> 00:20:51,943 And that is going to be a fascinating interview as well. 339 00:20:52,023 --> 00:20:58,066 And can you just describe how, so you're a wealth advisor who focuses on the business 340 00:20:58,066 --> 00:21:01,667 as an asset and helps them understand their options for their personal and 341 00:21:01,667 --> 00:21:03,007 professional goals. 342 00:21:03,588 --> 00:21:06,690 Where does an Allie Taylor fit into this story? 343 00:21:07,050 --> 00:21:09,312 And what impact does that have? 344 00:21:09,312 --> 00:21:14,896 How do your clients receive this level of attention and advice? 345 00:21:14,896 --> 00:21:18,198 Well, if you remember, so you told me you were going to be in Denver and I just 346 00:21:18,198 --> 00:21:19,538 happened to be there. 347 00:21:19,619 --> 00:21:22,761 And we were having breakfast and you said, oh, let's go upstairs. 348 00:21:22,761 --> 00:21:24,262 Well, I found out Allie was speaking. 349 00:21:24,262 --> 00:21:26,563 So I said, well, let's go in and see her session. 350 00:21:28,445 --> 00:21:29,565 Thanks for the introduction, by the way. 351 00:21:29,565 --> 00:21:31,427 You're welcome. 352 00:21:31,427 --> 00:21:32,647 I'm still waiting for my 353 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:39,785 Um, no, the way Ali helps it, I think a lot of advisors know that the question 354 00:21:39,785 --> 00:21:45,250 needs to be asked and they sort of, some of them are okay asking it, but do they 355 00:21:45,250 --> 00:21:47,011 really want to solve the problem? 356 00:21:47,011 --> 00:21:51,014 So to the extent is there something holding a business owner back from growing 357 00:21:51,014 --> 00:21:54,937 their business or, or wanting to transition a lot of that'll be self 358 00:21:54,937 --> 00:22:00,842 sabotaged from unconscious or subconscious, um, things going on. 359 00:22:00,842 --> 00:22:02,596 So Ali's there to actually. 360 00:22:02,596 --> 00:22:07,919 identify and help create a path for that business owner to solve a problem. 361 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,242 Whatever is holding them back, preventing them from making that next step. 362 00:22:12,242 --> 00:22:16,705 And a lot of them don't know enough about themselves to know what's holding them 363 00:22:16,705 --> 00:22:17,505 back. 364 00:22:18,146 --> 00:22:22,409 And she's there to be, she comes in to help in those tough situations. 365 00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:28,453 I'll never forget a story she told me about a business owner who struggled with 366 00:22:28,453 --> 00:22:30,514 transitioning a business to her kids. 367 00:22:30,514 --> 00:22:32,475 And whenever the topic came up, 368 00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:34,021 she would break into tears. 369 00:22:34,021 --> 00:22:39,945 And the issue that she was struggling with was that she felt it would look poorly 370 00:22:39,945 --> 00:22:43,607 upon her if her kids took the business to another level. 371 00:22:44,087 --> 00:22:46,329 And ultimately, when she worked through the issue, she was like, well, as a 372 00:22:46,329 --> 00:22:49,331 parent, wouldn't you want your kids to be able to do better than you had? 373 00:22:49,331 --> 00:22:53,173 Look what you started the business with and look where you're handing it off to 374 00:22:53,173 --> 00:22:53,594 them. 375 00:22:53,594 --> 00:22:58,937 So it's just natural that they should be able to take it to greater heights than 376 00:22:58,937 --> 00:23:00,158 what you've been able to accomplish. 377 00:23:00,158 --> 00:23:02,619 And once she thought through all that, 378 00:23:02,692 --> 00:23:07,493 it resolved the majority of the issues and they were able to make some progress and 379 00:23:07,493 --> 00:23:11,014 figuring out how to transition the business as opposed to whenever the issue 380 00:23:11,014 --> 00:23:13,334 come up, she would break out into tears. 381 00:23:13,395 --> 00:23:19,896 So Allie's there to really help business owners and advisors figure out how to, if 382 00:23:19,896 --> 00:23:24,518 there's something preventing a business owner from wanting to grow a business and 383 00:23:24,518 --> 00:23:25,798 or transition it. 384 00:23:25,798 --> 00:23:26,878 Yeah, absolutely. 385 00:23:26,878 --> 00:23:31,619 And you'd mentioned self-sabotage, business owners do this. 386 00:23:33,444 --> 00:23:34,685 regularly. 387 00:23:35,005 --> 00:23:37,627 I hesitate to say often, but they do this regularly. 388 00:23:37,627 --> 00:23:44,931 We'll get them close to a transaction and it's almost like they invent some reason 389 00:23:44,931 --> 00:23:46,172 to not do the deal. 390 00:23:46,172 --> 00:23:47,152 They change. 391 00:23:47,212 --> 00:23:48,953 There are a bunch of examples. 392 00:23:49,294 --> 00:23:51,094 You've experienced that firsthand. 393 00:23:51,335 --> 00:23:56,438 Well, it's self-sabotaging behaviors of getting into arguments or just doing 394 00:23:56,438 --> 00:23:59,359 something that does not seem rational. 395 00:23:59,528 --> 00:24:00,868 You can't figure out why they're doing it. 396 00:24:00,868 --> 00:24:03,129 Well, there's a reason why they're doing it. 397 00:24:03,129 --> 00:24:08,230 They may not realize it, but Ali's there to help break through that wall to say, 398 00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:10,991 okay, here's what's going on and here's how we can work around that wall. 399 00:24:10,991 --> 00:24:15,792 Yeah, we're stuck as advisors trying to apply rational thought to an irrational, 400 00:24:15,792 --> 00:24:17,953 to an emotional situation. 401 00:24:18,353 --> 00:24:20,374 Well, I can speak from my industry. 402 00:24:20,374 --> 00:24:24,135 We're, you know, as an attorney, recovering attorney, working in financial 403 00:24:24,135 --> 00:24:26,795 services firm, we're all... 404 00:24:27,492 --> 00:24:30,274 left-minded risk mitigation people. 405 00:24:30,274 --> 00:24:35,739 And Ali helped me understand that the profile for a business owner, uh, they 406 00:24:35,739 --> 00:24:40,523 deal with ambiguity better, they deal with risk better, um, they're, they're 407 00:24:40,523 --> 00:24:47,269 personalities that make them successful in running their business or sometimes would 408 00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:53,614 prevent them from wanting to engage in process of planning, which, which we're 409 00:24:53,614 --> 00:24:54,355 all about, right? 410 00:24:54,355 --> 00:24:55,775 Plan, plan, plan. 411 00:24:56,272 --> 00:24:58,053 And they don't have the time or inclination. 412 00:24:58,053 --> 00:25:02,156 They deal with ambiguity, their risk profile, all those reasons. 413 00:25:02,156 --> 00:25:09,562 Yeah, and then not even getting into, in the wealth management world and the exit 414 00:25:09,562 --> 00:25:12,944 world, but the shiny object issue, et cetera. 415 00:25:13,665 --> 00:25:19,289 It's interesting because I had Tina Corner-Stoltz of LX Council, who was my 416 00:25:19,289 --> 00:25:23,691 guest, and we talked about a lot of her. 417 00:25:24,816 --> 00:25:29,279 licensees, customers, our CEOs, people who've sold their business and they're 418 00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:32,881 moving on to their next act, but they want to work, as we were saying, on their own 419 00:25:32,881 --> 00:25:33,802 terms. 420 00:25:34,883 --> 00:25:40,007 Yeah, so helping understand what can come next, what are your options? 421 00:25:40,007 --> 00:25:42,308 And I mentioned creating options earlier. 422 00:25:42,769 --> 00:25:46,872 Running your business is not the only thing you can do. 423 00:25:46,872 --> 00:25:50,154 But ultimately, it's their business and their decision, right? 424 00:25:50,334 --> 00:25:52,075 Yeah. 425 00:25:52,075 --> 00:25:52,616 So- 426 00:25:52,616 --> 00:25:56,414 What do you do when clients say, listen, I'm never gonna sell this, Francis. 427 00:25:59,381 --> 00:26:00,332 Do you have- 428 00:26:01,928 --> 00:26:04,469 What do you do in that situation, if anything? 429 00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:11,193 Well, I think one of the ways I'm able to build trust with clients is it's not about 430 00:26:11,193 --> 00:26:13,414 what I want for them, it's what they want for themselves. 431 00:26:13,414 --> 00:26:17,916 And by helping them accomplish their goals and objectives, it's about building trust. 432 00:26:17,916 --> 00:26:24,220 And so yes, all things being equals, if well service is professional, would I want 433 00:26:24,220 --> 00:26:28,702 them to sell it and invest a ton of money with us? 434 00:26:28,702 --> 00:26:29,723 Absolutely. 435 00:26:29,723 --> 00:26:31,196 But we can get there. 436 00:26:31,196 --> 00:26:35,037 different ways, because if it's a matter of helping that family put a plan in 437 00:26:35,037 --> 00:26:37,858 place, it's ultimately going to transition it to the kids. 438 00:26:37,938 --> 00:26:41,760 Not only do you have the first generation being happy about the result, having a 439 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,562 successful outcome, you have the second generation happy about the outcome. 440 00:26:45,562 --> 00:26:46,522 Yeah. 441 00:26:46,522 --> 00:26:48,623 Well, it's really about trying to find the right solution. 442 00:26:48,623 --> 00:26:57,246 And as a, one of the practice areas that I dabbled in had to spend time in was with 443 00:26:57,246 --> 00:27:00,147 ERISA and so it drafted and 444 00:27:00,336 --> 00:27:08,158 served drafted ESOP documents, had served as council and trustees, a very particular 445 00:27:08,158 --> 00:27:10,738 about putting an ESOP in the right spot, right? 446 00:27:10,738 --> 00:27:12,739 So a lot of people would say, don't do ESOP. 447 00:27:12,739 --> 00:27:16,680 So I think it's a matter of an ESOP is the right tool in the right spot. 448 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,142 So again, transitioning to the family in the right spot, in the right situation. 449 00:27:22,142 --> 00:27:25,563 So yes, how do we find a way to say yes for you to be able to not sell this 450 00:27:25,563 --> 00:27:27,603 business and transition it to the kids? 451 00:27:27,603 --> 00:27:29,363 It ultimately may not work. 452 00:27:29,404 --> 00:27:31,965 But it's a matter of being able to say, okay, let's figure out how we can find 453 00:27:31,965 --> 00:27:33,466 yes, get to yes. 454 00:27:33,466 --> 00:27:36,727 And if we can't, then we can look at other alternatives. 455 00:27:37,028 --> 00:27:40,570 But if that's what they really want, it's like, well, one, why is that what you 456 00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:41,390 want? 457 00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:43,711 Because the kids may not want that. 458 00:27:44,091 --> 00:27:48,354 They were like, dad, you know, we listened to you come home or mom, we listened to 459 00:27:48,354 --> 00:27:52,216 you come home and moan and complain about being a small business owner for years. 460 00:27:52,216 --> 00:27:57,819 So why is, why in the world would I want to take over this business and have that 461 00:27:57,899 --> 00:27:59,219 life of misery? 462 00:27:59,540 --> 00:28:05,103 And which reminds me of a story of a client we had, it was 82 years old, had 463 00:28:05,103 --> 00:28:10,306 taken the business from his dad, grew it from, oh, I forget what it was like 20 464 00:28:10,306 --> 00:28:17,710 million of revenue to well over 500 million of revenue and would not engage in 465 00:28:17,710 --> 00:28:22,793 any transition conversations because he felt his kids were slackers. 466 00:28:23,154 --> 00:28:23,354 Right. 467 00:28:23,354 --> 00:28:24,895 So he gave their 50s. 468 00:28:24,895 --> 00:28:26,448 They're thinking about retirement. 469 00:28:26,448 --> 00:28:30,029 And he won't transfer the business to him because they won't put in the hours like 470 00:28:30,029 --> 00:28:32,129 he did and he's doing well. 471 00:28:32,129 --> 00:28:35,130 They're like, well, dad, we don't want to put in the hours that you put in because 472 00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:38,651 we didn't have much of a dad and we don't want to do that to our kids. 473 00:28:38,651 --> 00:28:39,991 Yeah. 474 00:28:39,991 --> 00:28:43,472 Dad's saying, yeah, I'd really like to transition to my kids, but they haven't 475 00:28:43,472 --> 00:28:43,993 earned it yet. 476 00:28:43,993 --> 00:28:45,513 And the kids are like, no, thank you. 477 00:28:45,513 --> 00:28:48,714 We, we'd much rather have you sell the company and we can go do our own thing. 478 00:28:48,714 --> 00:28:53,695 So I think for a lot of good reasons, most people want to transition the company to 479 00:28:53,695 --> 00:28:54,695 their kids. 480 00:28:54,748 --> 00:28:56,228 but it's probably not gonna work out. 481 00:28:56,228 --> 00:29:00,371 Then they think employees, and then it kind of is the last drop to say, okay, now 482 00:29:00,371 --> 00:29:03,472 we'll look at selling it to a third party. 483 00:29:05,213 --> 00:29:09,536 I had another situation working with a client where he had promised to give the 484 00:29:09,536 --> 00:29:13,297 business or promised to give 30% of the business to his son. 485 00:29:13,418 --> 00:29:18,640 Well, when the company was less than 10 million in value, that was okay. 486 00:29:18,741 --> 00:29:24,292 Now that it was valued at 100 million, totally changed the dynamic of 487 00:29:24,292 --> 00:29:26,153 what the family had to deal with. 488 00:29:26,153 --> 00:29:30,937 So in that instance, dad had to go back to son and say, I need you to release me from 489 00:29:30,937 --> 00:29:34,500 my promise of giving you 30% of the company. 490 00:29:35,181 --> 00:29:40,226 So we had to figure out how could we make it up, how could dad make it up to some, 491 00:29:40,226 --> 00:29:41,407 and we're able to get there. 492 00:29:41,407 --> 00:29:44,329 But ultimately he wanted to give that business to his kid. 493 00:29:44,329 --> 00:29:49,174 He wanted it to be a multi-generational business, multi-family business, but 494 00:29:49,174 --> 00:29:50,635 wasn't able to get there. 495 00:29:50,675 --> 00:29:51,315 So. 496 00:29:51,664 --> 00:29:53,244 It's not about saying, no, let's sell. 497 00:29:53,244 --> 00:29:57,066 It's about how do we find a way to yes, and then when that doesn't work, we look 498 00:29:57,066 --> 00:29:58,006 at other alternatives. 499 00:29:58,006 --> 00:30:01,648 Sure, and I love that because you're respecting, you're absolutely right. 500 00:30:01,648 --> 00:30:05,689 You're respecting, it's your business, it's your life, and we're here to help 501 00:30:05,689 --> 00:30:06,309 you. 502 00:30:07,250 --> 00:30:07,830 Yeah. 503 00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:09,491 Yeah, and things work out. 504 00:30:09,491 --> 00:30:12,152 There's a reason you're as successful as you are. 505 00:30:13,773 --> 00:30:15,654 So, very cool. 506 00:30:15,654 --> 00:30:18,855 When we talk about, you mentioned bringing in a senior leadership team. 507 00:30:18,855 --> 00:30:20,495 I want to shift gears a little bit. 508 00:30:21,108 --> 00:30:26,312 Do you do any work, shame on me for not knowing this, but do you do any work on 509 00:30:26,312 --> 00:30:35,078 helping to create accountability and comp plans for those senior leaders? 510 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,041 We, yeah, we do, depending on the circumstance. 511 00:30:38,041 --> 00:30:43,105 Well, you know, I think about being a trusted advisor, there's an area we'll 512 00:30:43,105 --> 00:30:46,547 have subject matter expertise and there's an area where I don't. 513 00:30:46,568 --> 00:30:49,329 but it's a matter of saying, well, let us help you figure out what are the questions 514 00:30:49,329 --> 00:30:54,771 that you need to be asking yourself, and that you need to be asking those around 515 00:30:54,771 --> 00:30:57,512 you so that we can ultimately find the right resource. 516 00:30:57,512 --> 00:31:02,554 So yeah, we'll have those conversations, but more probably it's about bringing in 517 00:31:02,554 --> 00:31:06,736 the right technical matter, subject matter expert at the right time. 518 00:31:06,836 --> 00:31:07,796 Yeah, absolutely. 519 00:31:07,796 --> 00:31:09,977 With every aspect of the business, right? 520 00:31:10,097 --> 00:31:13,899 And not getting, and I like what you've just described because you're doing it on 521 00:31:13,899 --> 00:31:16,099 your terms, what a lot of you... 522 00:31:16,352 --> 00:31:21,615 we see happen regularly, not that we're overstated, but regularly as people 523 00:31:21,615 --> 00:31:29,021 getting pulled into the weeds, not so much in your profession, but more so in people 524 00:31:29,021 --> 00:31:30,682 saying, well, listen, I know how to fix that. 525 00:31:30,682 --> 00:31:33,163 And they just roll up their sleeves and start fixing it. 526 00:31:33,344 --> 00:31:36,826 And that is a place we recommend that folks don't go. 527 00:31:36,826 --> 00:31:39,628 Well, and I think I learned this from you. 528 00:31:39,628 --> 00:31:44,031 It's a matter of, again, what are we really trying to accomplish here? 529 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:50,302 If you don't spend the time really looking at the problem from multiple angles, you 530 00:31:50,302 --> 00:31:52,623 may not be working on the right problem. 531 00:31:53,664 --> 00:31:54,844 That's exactly right. 532 00:31:54,844 --> 00:31:57,205 Questions, questions, right? 533 00:31:57,205 --> 00:32:00,246 What do we really, and that's what the growth, one of the things that the growth 534 00:32:00,246 --> 00:32:06,869 conversation, which is our shorthand for this initial deep discovery that I believe 535 00:32:06,869 --> 00:32:12,011 every advisor should undertake with their client to really understand 536 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,761 where does this need to go? 537 00:32:13,761 --> 00:32:18,984 And not accepting the first, if somebody says, I want to grow my business, my 538 00:32:18,984 --> 00:32:23,628 profits from 5 million to 10 million, we really need to understand why that's the 539 00:32:23,628 --> 00:32:24,488 case. 540 00:32:25,009 --> 00:32:26,590 What do you think that's going to do for you? 541 00:32:26,590 --> 00:32:31,813 Do you understand the cost that this will have in time, in emotion, in capital? 542 00:32:32,714 --> 00:32:36,256 Just get deep, deep into that conversation, which I know you do. 543 00:32:36,557 --> 00:32:40,959 And yeah, and it's asking... 544 00:32:41,104 --> 00:32:43,045 a thousand good questions. 545 00:32:43,686 --> 00:32:49,530 Well, I'm digging at it because you'll get some BS answers and you really say, well, 546 00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:50,311 is that really right? 547 00:32:50,311 --> 00:32:52,632 Is that really what's going on there? 548 00:32:52,812 --> 00:32:57,956 And it may take a while to get to the truth, but the business owner, again, 549 00:32:57,956 --> 00:33:01,939 that's that subconscious sabotaging where I think this is what I want to accomplish, 550 00:33:01,939 --> 00:33:05,001 but are unwilling to admit that there's something else going on. 551 00:33:06,163 --> 00:33:07,103 Yeah. 552 00:33:07,103 --> 00:33:07,724 It's- 553 00:33:07,724 --> 00:33:10,826 It's such a fascinating business owners are fascinating to work with. 554 00:33:10,826 --> 00:33:15,829 And I think, you know, a lot of what we've just discussed touches on why these are so 555 00:33:15,829 --> 00:33:20,192 intellectually challenging and rewarding cases. 556 00:33:21,653 --> 00:33:27,157 I was just thinking of a case where when I asked, I pushed back on a business owner 557 00:33:27,157 --> 00:33:29,879 and he said, you're right, that's not the reason. 558 00:33:29,879 --> 00:33:31,039 And I go, what's the reason? 559 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:35,122 Because my kids aren't capable of running the company. 560 00:33:35,122 --> 00:33:36,123 I want you to tell them. 561 00:33:36,123 --> 00:33:37,303 I'm like, what? 562 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:38,480 Are you serious? 563 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,662 Yeah, so I ended up having the conversation with the kids that dad wanted 564 00:33:41,662 --> 00:33:45,224 to sell the business because they didn't think that they were gonna be able to run 565 00:33:45,224 --> 00:33:45,844 it. 566 00:33:45,924 --> 00:33:50,227 And how did that impact them, which opened up a whole nother can of worms. 567 00:33:50,227 --> 00:33:56,930 But he was at least willing to admit that there was another reason behind his 568 00:33:57,491 --> 00:33:58,251 thinking. 569 00:33:58,251 --> 00:34:02,514 Well, and thank God he shared that with you because if we think about how that 570 00:34:02,514 --> 00:34:06,255 could play out, he was lucky to have you. 571 00:34:07,100 --> 00:34:12,163 So, well, Francis, it's hard to believe we've been chatting for half an hour 572 00:34:12,163 --> 00:34:13,044 already. 573 00:34:14,245 --> 00:34:18,748 And yeah, this is how our conversations go, right? 574 00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:25,394 You know what, if I could, in closing, I ask this of each of our guests, is there 575 00:34:25,394 --> 00:34:32,699 one thing, thought, admonition, one thing that you 576 00:34:33,096 --> 00:34:41,385 that either your colleagues, business advisors, or CEOs should do or know when 577 00:34:41,385 --> 00:34:46,791 they're thinking about growing and monetizing the value of their business. 578 00:34:49,932 --> 00:34:55,415 Oh, yeah, you'd ask that question and a lot of thoughts run through my head. 579 00:34:58,156 --> 00:35:02,299 I think to the one if there's one thing, it's really. 580 00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:07,902 Not jumping to solutions with business owners, it's really having that in-depth 581 00:35:07,902 --> 00:35:10,604 conversation about what are we really trying to accomplish? 582 00:35:10,604 --> 00:35:13,405 I feel like we're, you know, beating the dead horse here. 583 00:35:14,086 --> 00:35:17,707 But the reason I think it's so important is because. 584 00:35:18,556 --> 00:35:21,596 Once you find out what the problem is, then you can take an opportunity to look 585 00:35:21,596 --> 00:35:26,798 at what are the other possible solutions that might solve that problem before you 586 00:35:26,798 --> 00:35:28,378 get to your solution. 587 00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:31,259 And I think that's a critical step. 588 00:35:31,259 --> 00:35:35,120 So it's not only finding out what the problem is, the compelling problem, but 589 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,021 it's then focusing on what are all the other possible solutions before ultimately 590 00:35:39,021 --> 00:35:41,422 getting to what might be your solution. 591 00:35:41,422 --> 00:35:46,003 So that you can really help them figure out, okay, am I the right person to help 592 00:35:46,003 --> 00:35:46,623 you? 593 00:35:48,152 --> 00:35:51,854 Or is there some other solution out there that would be a better fit for you? 594 00:35:51,975 --> 00:35:53,276 Absolutely, it's interesting. 595 00:35:53,276 --> 00:35:55,738 That's the, you know, what could we do? 596 00:35:55,738 --> 00:35:58,980 And there's a range of the possible, and then what should we do? 597 00:35:59,701 --> 00:36:02,443 Which is what makes sense in this situation. 598 00:36:02,763 --> 00:36:08,948 And as I'll editorialize, business owners, right, see a subject to change without 599 00:36:08,948 --> 00:36:09,288 notice. 600 00:36:09,288 --> 00:36:13,536 They can disappear from one place on the map and reappear somewhere else. 601 00:36:13,536 --> 00:36:14,657 the blink of an eye, right? 602 00:36:14,657 --> 00:36:16,278 It is not a linear process. 603 00:36:16,278 --> 00:36:18,500 It is not a linear process. 604 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:19,361 That's right. 605 00:36:19,361 --> 00:36:20,321 Well put. 606 00:36:20,322 --> 00:36:21,102 Well put. 607 00:36:21,102 --> 00:36:22,363 Well, Francis, thanks, man. 608 00:36:22,363 --> 00:36:26,086 I really appreciate you sharing your time with us. 609 00:36:26,187 --> 00:36:28,628 And thank you very, very much. 610 00:36:29,450 --> 00:36:31,071 Any questions for me before we wrap up? 611 00:36:31,071 --> 00:36:31,371 I'm all good. 612 00:36:31,371 --> 00:36:32,652 Thank you for the time. 613 00:36:35,175 --> 00:36:36,256 Outstanding, Francis. 614 00:36:36,256 --> 00:36:37,917 Listen, thank you very much. 615 00:36:38,017 --> 00:36:41,039 And ladies and gentlemen, ciao for now. 616 00:36:44,724 --> 00:36:45,664 This is George. 617 00:36:45,664 --> 00:36:46,164 Thanks. 618 00:36:46,164 --> 00:36:48,164 I hope you like this episode. 619 00:36:48,164 --> 00:36:52,004 Please subscribe, like wherever you get your podcasts. 620 00:36:52,004 --> 00:36:54,444 And if you have two sex, leave a review. 621 00:36:54,444 --> 00:36:58,114 Let's the world know what we're doing and it helps us understand if we're delivering 622 00:36:58,114 --> 00:36:58,804 value. 623 00:36:58,804 --> 00:37:01,824 So thank you very much and we'll see you next time.