Travis Bader: This podcast was recorded on location at the Wild Sheep Society of
BC's Western Hunting Expo in Penticton.
My friend, Sean said, Trev, you got to bring up some of your recording equipment.
Let's record a podcast while we're up there.
The good folks at the Beretta Group.
Offered to let us use their booth to record this podcast.
And if you're not familiar with the bread, a group.
They own Sakotika, Beretta, Norma Ammunition, and a whole slew of other
companies I'm sure you've heard of.
They are the oldest firearms business in the world.
They're coming up on 500 years of operation, which is crazy.
And they are generously providing all Silvercorp club members with 25
percent off of all regularly priced clothing on the Stoger Canada website.
And 10 percent off everything else.
I bring this up.
Because I'm extremely proud of what the Silvercore Club is able to offer.
I love the Beretta Group.
I use Beretta shotguns.
I use Sakotika rifles.
I wear the clothing and I want to be able to share the things
that I like with other people and with the Silvercore Club members.
If that helps you get outside and look stylish and have kit
that works, I want to be able to help you thrive in the outdoors.
Now, without further ado, let's get on with this episode.
We've got Sean Zabor from Silvercore Joe Appel from Silvercore Podcast 140.
Missing, we will have to just send our regrets.
Missing is Kyle Stetler from Silvercore Podcast, if I
remember right, it was number 38.
He was one of the early guys on there.
He was an OG.
Yeah.
The fact that you memorize that is very impressive.
I'm not going to lie.
I got on the phone and I had to look it up ahead of time.
And I will forget all of that in a couple of hours.
I can barely remember my name.
The fact that you did that was great.
It's pretty cool how we're able to bring all these different cultures together.
I, I walked through at the trade show here.
So Sean, you've got Stonehouse Realty.
That's, that's your business.
Sean Zubor: Yep.
So we're selling real estate, but, uh, as you guys know, my main gig
is selling high rises and all the other kinds of commercial jazz, but
my passion and heart is always been in hunting since I was 10 years old.
So, uh, putting one, two together, we're helping people.
We're moving guide outfitters now looking for properties like lakefront
properties and rural properties, hunting properties, fishing properties,
and yeah, it's, it's, it's a blast.
We've met a ton of people, got a lot of new clients, a lot of new friends.
It's been an awesome show so far.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
You know, I'm loving the vibe of this show too.
And there's, it was funny.
Uh, it's been pointed out more than once on this show that, uh, if wild
sheep really wants to promote this and get women into the wild sheep
society, just let them know that there's affluent, fit, uh, Bearded.
Yeah.
Attempted bearded.
Yeah.
Attempted bearded.
And Joe, of course, you were emceeing the event there last night.
Joe Eppele: Trying to.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Joe Eppele: Are you doing it again tonight?
I'm not.
I'm off the hook.
I think that's part of the reason why Kyle wasn't able to join us is he's got to do
all of the heavy lifting this evening.
Travis Bader: Got it.
So he's gonna be in front of the mic doing the mc bit.
Absolutely.
Sean Zubor: I love it.
I just wanted to point out too that I'm six one and I may look
really short in this video, but I'm actually not that short.
These guys are just giants.
Joe Eppele: I think that's why we positioned you to the front by the camera.
So actually was
Sean Zubor: actually was, yeah.
I've never felt like a midget my entire life until today, so, but that's
funny, actually, you mentioned it.
So my girlfriend was straight up saying that she's got a friend that.
It's a single and she's like, she should be here.
Every guy here is six foot five and taller.
It feels like all working out, all doing well.
It's a great community.
Definitely.
Joe Eppele: I mean, look at all the guys walking around, just
rugged mountain men that can get out there and survive off the land.
What more could a gal want?
Sean Zubor: Exactly.
Ladies, you got to get into sheep hunting or at least hunting and come to the show.
Join the wild sheep society.
Travis Bader: So that's an interesting one too, because Wild Sheep
Society is something people say, well, I'm not interested in sheep.
Why?
You know, I like moose hunting, I like deer hunting, but sheep?
But it's so much more than just sheep.
The Wild Sheep Society concentrates on habitat, and they concentrate on the
same grounds that the deer are going to be on, that the moose are going to
be on, that the elk are going to be on.
Sean Zubor: Yeah.
And it's funny that you mentioned that.
So right now we just implemented this program that every home that we sell,
we're putting a small portion away.
Our goal is to like fundraise between five to 10 grand next
year for the wild sheep society.
Right.
But I tell my clients and they're like, uh, but don't you hunt them?
I'm like, so you're trying to make more so you could shoot them up?
Like, yeah, kind of, but the reality is, and I think everybody that's into
conservation, into hunting knows that almost all conservation, if not all of
it comes from hunters one way or another.
And especially with the wild sheep society, it's, it's about having a legacy
that our kids and our families down the line, we'll be able to hunt these
sheep for years and years and years.
And, um, I think one thing is a big misconception for myself.
Anyways, I've hunted everything.
my entire life.
And I feel like sheep hunting is something that is just as much of adventure
as it is hunting in and of itself.
But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a funny conversation with clients when you're
telling them these things, because it seems like an oxymoron that, yeah, we do
harvest these animals, we do kill them.
But the reality is, is you do it very, very few and far between, um, in
comparison to how many times you go out.
But the fact that they're there because of societies like this is And
Joe Eppele: the funds raised at events like this go back into, it's so much
more than just harvesting an animal and putting more on the mountain.
It's about education on making sure when you do harvest an animal, how
to harvest the right one, make sure you're focusing on mature age class.
And then also the funds go to habitat restoration, habitat
protection, different areas where.
You know, farm sheep are getting too close to our wild sheep, introducing
diseases, a lot of that stuff that most people aren't aware of.
That's what a lot of these funds go towards.
So it's a habitat restoration.
Um, you know, right now, huge projects going along the Fraser River with
Movi, what's been going on there.
The capturing, testing, making sure we're moving those diseased sheep.
Um, so it's a lot of that that goes on and that stuff has so much more impact.
In the big, you know, picture.
So, yes, the community does harvest and remove some of those rams, but the
number of rams that are back on the mountain because of groups like Wild
Sheep Society BC, and if you look at it, I mean, look at the numbers, no group.
In conservation period from what I have seen is making sure that the money
that comes in goes directly out boots on the ground projects for everything.
Sean Zubor: Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
Uh, what the wild sheep society actually does and what everybody
here is to really support that.
I mean, we all love the gear we all love and we're going to talk about
that huge shout out to Tika for letting us use their booth and all
the guys that Italian everybody else.
But, um, you're here for the sport, the love, the hobby of, of, uh, Uh,
sheep hunting, but the reality is, is everybody's just as behind to actually
like, like, I've never been to any kind of event where everybody's doing every
kind of like 50, 50 draw or gun draw or this, like everybody's putting money
into everything, you know, and they know the likelihood of winning this
close to zilch, like every other draw.
Right.
But it's, for them, it's just a way of giving and it's, it's something
that really impresses me how, how tight knit this specific community
is really started to become.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Yeah, the amount of money these organizations raise.
Uh, Wild Sheep Foundation in the States?
How much did that ticket go for?
Wasn't that a record, a record record?
700k
Sean Zubor: or something?
US?
I thought it was over a million.
Over a million?
Joe Eppele: Wasn't it over a million?
Yeah, I think the, the, I'm trying to remember the exact number.
See, you have all the numbers, you're the man with the numbers.
I didn't.
You're supposed to have them all memorized.
I wanted to remember you ahead of time.
This is where we need Kyle.
Kyle would have that on the tip of his tongue.
Absolutely.
Travis Bader: Actually, Joe, I got something here for you.
I was going to give it to you last time I was at your place.
Completely forgot.
There you go.
Here's an official crab measure when you're out there in Squamish.
Yes, it has my name on it So if it gets lost, it'll be returned.
Joe Eppele: I love it.
That is a big boy crab measure I got this little rinky dink thing,
but this is a Absolutely perfect
Travis Bader: floating on that guy.
You're out there.
You're in the water drop it.
It's all good And it's not going to break or crack.
That's a commercial crab measure.
Joe Eppele: Thank you very much.
I appreciate it.
Travis Bader: I forgot that one from the last time.
Joe Eppele: I love it.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
That's one of the things I see here at the show.
Everybody here is very, very passionate about the outdoors.
And we've got hunters, we've got anglers, we have people who are into
mountain hunting, we've got people who are into a whitetail, into a
blacktail, into a mule deer, into moose.
I mean, it's the whole gamut here.
But when I talk with people, what it really boils down to, it's
just their love of being outside.
Just their love with that connection with their natural environment.
Sean Zubor: I think.
I think the world we're in right now.
I think there's a lot of positive change happening.
There's been a lot of crazy stuff over the last few years or decades.
And we've been kind of, uh, uh, what's the best way going away from our
traditions of hunting, but I think a lot of guys out there, like you have,
like the Joe Rogans of the world, you guys that are really kind of promoting
what it's all about, and I think it is.
I think the general public, and I'm hoping that this is coming across, the
general public is starting to realize it's not just about killing animals.
It's really about getting out there as a community, it's family, it's,
it's, uh, so many different things.
It's wildlife in its, in and of itself, protecting our resources, right?
Like, even if we look at history, there wouldn't be any national parks in the
States if there wasn't Theodore Roosevelt, you know, and, you know, one of my idols,
and that guy was a massive hunter, right?
So, um, it's nice to see.
It becoming cool again, for lack of a word, to get out there and hunt.
Why do you think that is?
Travis Bader: Why is it becoming cool again?
Joe Eppele: Joe, what do you think?
Travis Bader: It's because of people like Joe.
I would not, I would not put
Joe Eppele: my name on that one.
Um, I honestly think, uh, everybody hates to talk about COVID, but I
think during COVID, there was a big push when we had all those confined.
You know, you weren't allowed to travel outside.
Then they deemed food acquisition as an essential service.
So people could fish and people could hunt and still travel.
But it seemed like everybody stopped being so busy with traveling to
distant places and they started looking at what was around them.
But I think there was a big push back into holistic nutrition, you know,
becoming physically fit, getting outdoors.
And I did notice a big uptake.
I think that was some of the biggest spikes we've had in, uh, fishing license
sales, new tags, new hunters coming into the fold from what I read back then.
Um, and I just think it's transition people really.
Slow down and looked at what mattered the most and you talked about it earlier.
It's all these people getting together about their love of the outdoors.
All it takes is that will first trip into the mountains for most people.
And right away, you either know if you love it or you hate it.
And I think the vast majority of people have forgotten how much they
truly love and rely on the outdoors.
Because the outdoors teaches you so much about who you are as an
individual, but it's also an opportunity.
I mean, you see a lot of families walking around here with their kids, their
second, third generation in the society.
Um, and, and it's an opportunity for you to get out completely
disconnect from everything and soak up what really matters the most.
I mean, you get out there, it's humbling.
It doesn't matter if you're, I mean, there's a lot of
guides walking around here.
You see guys at guide camp, there's millionaires and there's wrench pullers
in the hunt camp and it's just, it's everything's broken down to the basics.
And, um, I think that's a big part of what people are starting to see
again is, you know, in a time where there's so much divide between groups,
everybody seems like they're splitting, finding a community that's just,
it brings everybody back together.
And it doesn't matter, you know, if you're the richest guy in the room, the
poorest guy in the room, whatever it is, like the mountains, you can't cheat the
mountains, the mountains don't lie, right?
Everybody is on the same playing field once you get out there.
And I think there's just something special about that.
And I mean, you guys see it this weekend.
Like it's just such a good, warm environment being here this weekend, the
banquets, you sit down and it's just, everybody's there having fun together.
It's that kind of traditional value.
It's those good community vibes.
Um, I think people are starting to come back to that.
And again, to your, to your note, you know, the, the Joe Rogans of the world,
people like that certainly do put it on.
Not a pedestal, but on a platform and they do it in a well placed way.
Um, Travis, I think you do a phenomenal job in educating people
and kind of breaching those divides.
You know, there's a lot of education.
We're opening the doors to people.
I think there was a lot in the past where it was, it was made to be a community
that was kind of kept to the side.
And now all these other groups are trying to shut us down so much.
It's like, okay, well, we need to open ourselves up, raise our
voice because like our way of life is being targeted right now.
And if we don't start standing up.
We, we can't get by with just having small numbers anymore.
We need large numbers.
So we have a larger voice.
So I think there's a lot of different pieces falling into place
and why it's becoming popular.
Um, but yeah, I think it ultimately comes down to just.
Once you're in the mountains, the people that are getting pushed
to expose themselves to it.
Once you're out there, you really realize how important
it is to have that way of life.
Travis Bader: It is a grand leveler.
And I haven't seen another activity that's so egalitarian in its nature.
You've got, like, multi millionaires sitting down at the table.
Last night we're at the table with, uh, three young hunting guides.
Was it JT?
Help me?
Carter
Joe Eppele: and
Travis Bader: Carson.
Yeah, Carter LaVallee and Carson.
Carson Lavallee and Carter.
No, I got it backwards.
They'll crack me on here.
They drove 12 hours to be down here.
And I think they're sleeping in the trailer, they said,
out in the parking lot.
Joe Eppele: Don't tell anybody, because they'll get a ticket.
But there is a horse trailer parked out front.
The boys, they got off work Thursday night.
And yeah, jumped in the pickup truck, drug their horse trailer out here.
They just wanted to be here and experience it.
Some boys from Alberta.
Yep.
Um, I've actually hunted with some way up north.
They were wranglers on one of my trips.
And just salt of the earth, guys.
Just wanted to be here and be a part of the energy
Travis Bader: right and and they fit in just side by side with the people
who are multimillionaires and it's just Everyone's here for the exact same reason.
It's for their love of the outdoors.
That commonality,
Sean Zubor: that ground that they share.
And I think one of the things too is, is, and I'm sure, I mean, you guys all
have kids, you got a brand new one.
Congratulations.
Um, my oldest hunter is turning 10.
He's actually going to be in your course in March, as soon as he turns 10.
And all he's talking about is going on his first bear hunt.
We shot a few grouse last year, and a couple other things, super excited.
I tell you, as I'm sure you guys are aware, they get sucked into
the YouTube, to these iPads, to this, you know, these, these social
networks that we're all a part of.
Don't get me wrong.
Sure.
You know, we all, all do the YouTube and Instagram and all
that jazz, but I, I think.
As we become closer via social media, we really become much more separated and
individualistic and so on and so forth.
And we get these dopamine hits from people liking us and following us that
are totally not real, you know what I mean, for lack of a better word.
And I think there really is very few things in this world that we get to truly
experience that is legitimately real.
You know, and when you're in the forest, when you're in the bush, when you're got a
pack on your back, and just like you guys said, it's the ultimate level, it makes
no difference what that guy does, or has done in the past, or making money, doesn't
make money, it's, you guys are both suffering, you know what I mean, you've
both got packs, you're both going up the same mountain, like, it is, it is, The
ultimate, um, equalizer of individuals.
And, and I think it's very few times that I realize that I'm actually in the moment.
I'm not thinking about, you know, what happened yesterday with business or
where I'm planning or my goals are, or all these other things are just
like, yeah, just don't fall off this cliff, you know, like do not die.
Next step.
That's about it.
Right.
So, um, yeah, it's, it's, uh, almost like a form of meditation
to me in some sort of way.
It's pretty, pretty awesome.
Pretty profound for sure.
Joe Eppele: So I think it's the best refresh, recharge, disconnect, whatever
you, I call it like reconnecting by disconnecting, like, cause you go out
there and you've never felt more at peace.
Every time I go in the mountains, it feels like it brings life back into
perspective because you truly do realize like how much of these anxiety driven
behaviors or the stress you have going on on a day to day basis, how much
of that is self imposed and not real.
And once you're out there, it's like, okay, I'm in the mountains.
Um, am I going to be warm enough to survive tonight?
Am I going to have enough food?
Am I going to have enough water?
Like, it's literally shelter, food, heat.
Like, that's what's going through your mind, and then in those moments,
you know, when things are going, like, the hunt's tough, or whatever
it is, you get weathered into your tent for two, three days, and it's
like, okay, what do you miss the most?
Do you miss your family?
Like those types of things.
So then all of a sudden everything falls into perspective.
All that other stuff that you think matters.
You're like, does it really matter?
And it just, so then you come out of the mountains and it's like, everything
in life makes sense and then you're back out for too long and everything,
you know, it all gets muddled together and you start stressing about the wrong
stuff and it's like, my wife will look at me sometimes and be like, you need to
leave the house and go in the mountains.
And I don't, I'm like, okay, she's doing that for me.
And I try and tell myself she's doing that for me.
Maybe she just wants me out of the house, but I do know that when I come back.
I try and remember and lock that feeling in because Everything seems
so clear in the day to day as soon as you come out of the mountains.
But then once you get right back into that, that rat race and you're
back on that spinning wheel, it's tough to keep it in that perspective.
Travis Bader: I do have a hard time switching gears.
Personally, I, if I'm in the mountains, if I'm out in the
bush, I don't want to leave.
When I come back into work and I got everything coming in, I find it hard
to get back out into the mountains.
I want to be out there, but I know I've got all these obligations and I
got all this work I gotta get done.
I have a hard time making a point.
A smooth transition between them.
It's
Joe Eppele: yeah, it's, it's one of those funny things because like I said, it's,
I mean, when you leave, you do get that opportunity to completely disconnect.
But when you disconnect, I mean, as adults, we understand we have
responsibilities in the real life.
So you can't just walk away from it and completely forget
that you do have bills to pay.
You do have these.
Not necessarily, they're not false imposed kind of responsibilities.
They're real responsibilities as an adult, especially as providing males.
Society tells us we have a lot of these responsibilities that
we just have to do, right?
So when we do step outside, you do go in the mountains.
You get to be a kid again.
You get to disconnect from all of that.
Which is a freedom that many people that don't hunt never really, truly experience.
But there is on some level, I have this guilt right up until the second
my boots hit the dirt and I'm out of the truck or I'm out of service.
I have this guilt of, you know, am I putting myself
ahead of my responsibilities?
Am I supposed to be, I don't wanna say a martyr, but like, are you
supposed to just carry those burdens and eat it on a day to day basis?
But over the years I've seen this knowledge of like, okay, yes, this
time away is necessary because when I come back, I am such a better
person that I'm able to do everything else and deal with those burdens
and deal with those responsibilities at such a higher level that it's
like this necessary give and take.
It's like.
When you're busy with work, you're a fit guy.
When you're busy with work, sometimes work's getting so like, okay, I
don't have a minute to spare today.
I'm not going to go to the gym.
You don't perform well that day.
You've got this fog, this haze, and you don't realize it.
Cause you're like, I'm just gonna keep my head down.
I'm going to get through it.
I don't have a minute to spare to get to the gym.
If you take even 20 minutes to half an hour to do a quick workout, get the
endorphins flowing, you're going to get twice as much done that day, but you
had to sacrifice that window of time.
And I really do think, you know, sometimes that time in the mountains
is like that 20 to 30 minute workout.
Sometimes it's only a day.
Sometimes it's a 14 day trip if you're really lucky, but it will make you perform
at such a higher level at everything else.
Because again, you can prioritize, you can function at a higher rate.
Sean Zubor: I think part of it for me too is, is um, Sheep
hunting in general, I find it many times as a type two kind of fun.
So if I'm going to two weeks and I'm down 17 pounds in 10 days, and
I'm just like, there's a lot of times I'm looking at my in reach.
I'm like that button looks good.
The come save me button.
So some of those times, and I'm like, I'm never going to do this again.
That's happened.
My first sheep hunt.
And then on the flight out, I'm already booking the next flight in.
Right.
So I think it's, it's nice to have that disconnect, but.
Just like you said, I think if it a puts everything in perspective for me Like
it is crazy to me how many people that live in the lower mainland have never
been past like Kelowna or God forbid Prince George and you talk about going
up to like, you know, where Muncho Lake or something way up north there The
beauty that we're surrounded with it just opens your eyes and most people
have never actually Laid under the stars and seen an actual the stars without
light pollution, you know Like you don't understand how bright it actually is
what Milky Way actually looks like right?
so I think it puts everything into perspective plus I'm a big believer
just like in training that If you do difficult things and sheep hunting
without a doubt is an incredibly difficult things in most cases, everything else
in life just goes, comes a lot easier.
You know, like, I'm like, Oh, I got to go to a business meeting.
I got to wake up at five.
Darn.
Like that's a lot easier.
Yeah, exactly.
It's a lot easier than sleeping on in a tent, climbing up a
mountain with a 90 pound pack.
Right.
Then I overpacked like usual, you know, it's, it's a completely,
completely different beast for sure.
Overpack as usual.
Travis Bader: Yeah, it's so easy to do as well when you head out there.
Do I want to be comfortable?
Do I want to be lightweight?
I mean, the, our, I mean, modern gear is getting better and you
can get some lightweight stuff, but, uh, yeah, overpacking is one
of my, I end up finding stashes.
I don't know if you guys do that.
I end up going out there and realizing, damn, I overpacked, and
I find a place to stash my kit.
I'm
Joe Eppele: guilty for the same.
Every time I come out of the bush, I try and go through, so I have a checklist.
I have a Excel, online Excel sheet, and I weigh every item when I buy it.
I weigh it so I know exactly what each individual piece weighs.
So I have a checklist so I can.
Check everything and it kind of totals my weight at the bottom tells
you what I'm expected great I got my backpack exactly where I want it.
And then all of a sudden as it's like 48 hours before I leave Maybe I need this.
Oh, you know what?
I checked the weather again I might need that and then the bag it's heavier
and heavier and then every time I come out of the mountains I look
at my list and I what didn't I use
Sean Zubor: right
Joe Eppele: right and then it's like, okay, you know what?
maybe I didn't need to bring that but it's It's inevitable.
There's always times I bring stuff I needed or I didn't need, I mean, but then
there's a few things that I pulled after the last hunt, because I didn't use it and
I'm up there and I'm like, I would give my left arm if I had that with me for the
Travis Bader: staff tech because you're like, I overpacked, but if
I need to, I can hike back down.
I can grab this kit.
That's a smart,
Joe Eppele: I need to do that more.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Just don't forget yourself up there.
I've done that one before too.
Sean Zubor: Yeah.
I'm just, I'm the worst.
I literally, I'm like, Oh, I need three knives because this one does this.
This one does that.
And I'm just like, Oh yeah.
And then my back every single time I'm picking up my buddy's pack versus my pack.
I'm like, what's going on here?
Makes no sense.
But yeah.
And when
Joe Eppele: you're six foot, what are you eight?
Six.
I've done some heavy, maybe like six.
Seven and a half now, I've shrunk a bit.
I'm sure over the,
Travis Bader: yeah, everything you own weighs more, your boots,
way more, your pants, way more, your jacket weighs more food,
Joe Eppele: food is the biggest struggle for me is I've found that
I'm constantly going, okay, am I going to have enough calories for the day?
I want to be right at that bonk level where at the end of the
day, I'm kind of just fading.
It's one of those things where it's like, okay, you want to sneak in a bit
more calories, but as soon as you have more calories, you're packed heavier and
you're gonna be burning more calories.
But I, my favorite thing though, is when you're on the mountain every
day, I'm like, Oh, I just each day, my backpack, I'm like, I got 1.
6 pounds later today.
This is great.
That mountain's going to feel a little bit easier tomorrow.
Travis Bader: Yeah.
Do you
Joe Eppele: have a go
Travis Bader: to food?
Something that you have to have in your back?
Joe Eppele: Well, um, maybe a little luxury food, you know, one luxury food.
They're actually here at the show.
Um, Bruce, I got him to come.
It's a BC company, Enercheese.
The cheese
Travis Bader: that he's over there.
Joe Eppele: So it's great.
It's just like a freeze dried cheese, which is good.
But the trick that I realized last year, so I. I love a good fatty dinner at night.
I take a few of those freeze dried chunks of cheese and I
throw them in my peak dinner.
And it'll actually kind of like get gooey again.
Sean Zubor: Yeah.
Joe Eppele: That is a guilty, guilty pleasure of mine.
Sean Zubor: Yeah, that makes sense.
It's just gonna rehydrate basically, right?
Joe Eppele: So I thought it was just gonna kind of powder
and give it that cheese flavor.
But it actually does turn into that gooey cheese again, so.
We're all drooling now.
We might have to take, we're going to take a break.
We're going to be right back.
Travis Bader: I do like those cheesies for me.
It was always the one I'd bring out.
Hawkins
Sean Zubor: cheesies.
Travis Bader: Yeah, they're lightweight.
I put them in little plastic bags.
I divvy it up every single day.
I have to be disciplined.
I do not crave sweets.
I do crave salt.
What about the mountains?
Yeah,
Sean Zubor: I used to bring like sweets, like, especially like, um, you know,
where they give you, uh, for Halloween or something like that, the kid's stuff,
but then you're just, your gut just gets nasty after a while from that stuff.
So now it's mainly, I'm just using peak 99 percent of the time, but
when I threw him last year's hunt or this year's hunt, I should say.
Last year's on technically, I guess, um, was protein powder.
I've never done that before.
And, uh, so there's kind of like a meal replacement.
It's a little bit higher calorie protein power.
Cause we always take protein bars.
Cause for breakfast, we don't, we never really have breakfast.
It's just coffee and, you know, cliff bar or whatever, and kind of get going.
But, um, this protein powder was pretty, it was pretty good in the overall size.
is it doesn't take up too much size, not too much weight.
You're getting calories and it's a lot of protein, longer lasting.
So I think I'll probably try that again next year.
Maybe I won't bring as much as I did last time, but we're pretty good.
Speaking of powders,
Joe Eppele: one thing I've done to kind of extend the amount of calories I have in my
meals is, uh, well, for my dinners, I open them up and I normally do one and a half
dinners per pouch and then I reseal it.
But the other thing I do is I'll add in some scoops of MCT powder.
Sean Zubor: It's just
Joe Eppele: that quick fat into the system and it's super lightweight.
So I'll do that.
Sometimes some scoops of bone broth or something like that.
Throw that in there.
Does the MCT mess with your stomach
Sean Zubor: at all?
Joe Eppele: I've never personally, I've never had issues with it.
Um, I don't do like, you know,
Sean Zubor: big amounts too
Joe Eppele: aggressive.
I just sneak a little bit extra in there.
Um, I do that.
And then in my oatmeal is all openable and I'll put a bit of MCT powder
and some powdered peanut butter.
So I thought powdered peanut butter when I first got it, I was like, Oh, it's great.
Cause it's going to be so high in calories like peanut butter.
It's high in protein, but the thing is the, a lot of the fat, I guess,
in peanut butter comes from the oils that they use to keep it that way.
So when you dehydrate it.
You lose a lot of those oils.
So that's, that's originally what I, why I happened on MCT powder is
because I used to bring individual packs of peanut butter and I rip it
open and dump it in all my meals.
And then I was like, Oh, I'm gonna use the powder.
It's going to be the same as the peanut butter.
And it wasn't.
So I was like, well, how do I get that fat back in?
Then I found the MCT powder.
And then I was like, well, I don't just need to use this in my breakfast.
I'll use the powder in my dinners and everything.
And it's.
It kind of works out well.
It works
Sean Zubor: for more things, because peanut butter, you're not going to
throw in like a spaghetti or something like that anyways, where you can
throw in MCT, no problem, right?
Exactly.
And yeah, just
Joe Eppele: sneaking some of those calories in, it just
boosts you a little bit.
Sean Zubor: Okay, so, uh, quick question, because we bumped into
at, uh, you were with me, I think, at my, uh, booth, uh, Rod Galtica?
Giltaca?
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
Um, with the CCFR, super nice guy, huge into what they're doing.
What's your guys thoughts with, um To get a little bit more political because that's
kind of the stuff we've been talking.
Uh oh.
Dun dun dun.
He's going to edit this part out.
Um, What's your guys thoughts with what's happening?
Obviously there's rumors of elections coming.
How do you guys think that's going to affect obviously gun ownership and,
uh, more important, us as hunters?
What are your guys thoughts, and this is kind of a two pronged
question, on grizzlies coming back?
I've heard it's a possibility, I don't know what's happened, but
I've been told by some COs that it might be in the works somehow.
Joe Eppele: I mean, from my experience in the field lately, I would say the
conflict we're having with grizzly bears has increased drastically.
I mean, it's increased drastically over the past maybe 8 to 10 years.
But I would say it's been sped up at such an extreme rate over the last
few years since the hunt's been shut down where something has to change.
Um, and if they are smart in office, they will go, okay, well,
these bears are becoming an issue.
How can we generate revenue from this that can give back?
To the monitoring of these species give back, because I mean, the hunts
previously brought a lot of money to the table, not just for the bears,
but for other species as well.
Right.
So shutting that down was the very, we got an announcement.
Should we pause for a second?
But shutting that down was a very, very nearsighted, short sighted.
I mean, if they had to do anything, maybe they should have shrunk the
numbers a bit, but, but something's going to happen here pretty soon,
whether it's the government stepping in and doing it silently and spending
taxpayers dollars to make it to reduce.
The numbers essentially, or opening things back up in a way that can
generate that revenue and create some positivity that comes from it.
And I mean, if you look at it in that way, I mean, yes, we are biased, obviously,
but if you just look at that and you take emotion out of it, it is hard to argue
against that type of approach, which is I think what we all struggle with is, yes,
we're biased, so we want to bring it back.
But the other side is just so passionate.
Against it that they're it's like when you're in an argument with somebody like
I don't care if I make sense or not I just need to show that I'm right and
it's like okay But are you even listening to the words coming out of your mouth?
Travis Bader: Well, it's hard to fight emotion with logic
Joe Eppele: Yes,
Travis Bader: you can't do it I mean you could be as logical as you want and
you're having that argument with the person who's highly emotional You're
going to have to let them have their emotional bit, but we don't have to
give that emotion the power behind it.
We don't have to start eliminating or making policy changes or legislative
changes based on something that is, that's purely emotional.
And I, I get it.
I, I remember years ago, um, Corporation of Delta, before it became the City
of Delta, they had a, a meeting there.
They said, look, we're thinking about doing what Surrey did and we're going to.
We're not going to get rid of the gun stores and the firearms businesses,
but we're going to put a moratorium existing ones can stay But anyone
new they can't come in and man.
I had all my logic.
I had all my stats I had all my stuff and I'm up there at City
Hall going through my stuff and I think was his name Barry Conkin.
I think was his name says hold on Travis Like I see you have a bunch
of pages like how much more of this you have I said, well, I don't know
I got I start going through it.
He says I'm gonna stop you right there.
I agree with you a hundred percent.
Everything you say makes sense.
O okay, so why are you contemplating this change then, right?
He says it's got nothing to do with what makes sense.
It's got nothing to do with what I agree with.
It's got to do with what we think the constituents want, and if we
have a vocal Constituency who says this is what we want, then we're
going to have to entertain it.
They didn't end up enacting the moratorium like they're going to,
but they at least went through the motions of seriously considering it.
So I, I think when it comes to the bear one, I as well have heard that they
will be bringing bear hunting back in.
I have had negative grizzly bear encounters.
We have a generation of grizzly bears now who have grown up to not be afraid
of humans, not have a respect for humans.
I tried to scare one off that was getting way, way, way too close and
I fired around beside it thinking that big boom, that concussive
force, that'll get it going off.
It didn't even flinch.
It didn't associate that with danger or me with danger.
I
Joe Eppele: think sometimes I'm in my experience, that boom now for them is
more associated with the dinner bell.
Travis Bader: That's right.
Joe Eppele: Because they hear that and they go, okay, maybe
there's going to be a gut pile.
There's something for me to go find.
I'm going to go look closer into that.
So we've had issues.
Yeah, we were coming out from an elk hunt.
We.
And I'm quite confident that the gunshot itself is what pulled that bear in on us.
Sean Zubor: Well, it's crazy.
I've been hunting since I was 10 years old and up until maybe
five years ago, and I'm 40 now.
Um, up until five years ago, I never really even saw grizzly and
wild, like maybe one in the distance and we were hunting up north with
my dad and so on and so forth.
Now, there isn't a trip where I don't see one, even in places like Cache Creek
and Hunter Mile and so on and so forth that aren't renowned for grizzly bears.
They're out there everywhere, just like the wolves and we, now
obviously we have a call in a lot of different places on the wolves.
There's still a ton of them, but last year on my sheep hunt, or
this year, sorry, on my sheep hunt.
We saw three of them.
One went through our camp.
The other one was chasing us down while we were leaving.
Like it was insane.
And when on our way out, uh, we took the, Jason brought us up there on the jet boat.
And, uh, excuse me, on our way out, I was actually with Chuck was on the
same boat with me from spike camp and we're chatting and apparently,
and don't quote this number, but it's something ridiculous like this, that.
In the last decade that they had the open grizzly hunt, right, it's something
like 90 percent of all these grizzlies that were shot weren't on a purpose hunt.
They weren't out there hunting grizzlies.
They were in an elk hunt, they were in a sheep hunt, they were in a moose
hunt, and they all had tags, they were all legally taken, but these were
problem bearers coming into camps.
They were taking the meat.
They were, you know, being aggressive, putting humans at risk.
End.
It was a massive majority of all bear shot were problem bears, right?
And now who's got to take care of it.
You talk to the guys, the CEOs that are working up in Dawson and so on and so
forth, like 95 percent of their calls are taking care of some kind of bear.
That's a nuisance bear that a hunter could have taken care of when, you
know, they were protecting their, their meat and whatever it is.
So it's not even the, you're now allowing these problem bears, like you
said, they're, it's a generation of.
Problem bears, you know, or, or issues with them.
So it's interesting to say.
So what about the gun stuff?
Travis Bader: The gun stuff.
Well, before we do the gun stuff, because I know my ADH you'll kick in and I wanted
to ask the question, cause we talked about gut piles, bears looking for a
gut pile, the Ravens flying overhead, oftentimes indicator, all the birds
come around that you've got a gut pile.
I got a theory and I'm going to throw it by you too.
I have a theory that the bears will look at these Ravens and they'll say,
Oh, probably a gut pile down below.
And I've been playing that theory a little bit.
These birds are really smart.
What if these birds are like, I want a gut pile.
Because sometimes it feels like they're indicating to me, when I'm out
there, of where an animal could be.
Because I've been starting to pay attention to the ravens
and finding success in my hunt.
Have you guys done that?
There's, there's
Joe Eppele: I don't know if you want to call it folklore or like
it's an old mountain man myth.
And I know it's something that was present.
Um, some first nation, that's part of it as well.
But there is a respect with the birds of prey like Ravens.
And they do say that there's, there's been a lot of stories and a lot of
tales of that being a part of it.
There's definitely an understanding about certain people.
It's also like, I mean, I don't know if it's on the same vein, but like
if you're going in the mountains and you see an owl or something,
it's supposed to be great luck.
But, but yeah, I, I've heard a lot of.
Stories of individuals that go out in the mountains, and they look for
the ravens and crows and go, okay.
I'm going to see where they take me today.
Travis Bader: Yeah, I don't know if correlation is causation.
I don't have enough data to be able to make that, but I've,
I've been playing with it a bit.
I figured I'll throw it out to see and maybe the listeners have done
this and they have some feedback.
Sean Zubor: I could, I could definitely see that.
I mean, it's miraculous how quick they end up on the gut pile, like you're,
you're still skinning an animal or you're, you're, you're gutting it and
they're there three minutes later.
So yeah, I could see that.
Travis Bader: So
Sean Zubor: you
Travis Bader: want to talk about the gun thing now?
Hey.
Sean Zubor: Yeah, the only reason is so I'll, I'll give some background on it.
So I'm an avid gun guy as well.
I even had a firearm channel, the modern caveman on YouTube a long time
ago when I still had guns to review.
So good old
Joe Eppele: days, good old
Sean Zubor: days.
And so.
There's one disconnect that, and that's the only thing, and I think
people are starting to, um, because, you know, the only, and I'll just
throw this out there, the extreme of Trudeau on how crazy everything has
gone with that, I think it's almost brought a lot of, like, the gun culture
and hunting culture closer together.
Right.
So, excuse me.
If I look back in the past, I even remember as a kid, like being looked
down on that we were hunting with a gun because the guy was a bow hunter.
So he's more of a superior hunter.
You know, there's always been these types of like riffs in our community.
And I think now it's starting to get a lot better because of the extremes of Trudeau.
But the one thing, um, and Ron and I were talking about it as well is,
you know, I own multiple restricted firearms that are going to be taken away.
I think I got like nine, Nine or ten guns that are now prohibited
in my, in my gun safe, right?
And, um, for me I'd really like to see, and I love the fact that the Wild Sheep
Society is doing this, having him, he's speaking tonight, I think he was
saying, right, and having him a part of them and so on and so forth, just
combining it a little bit more with sport shooters, um, guys that were doing
three gun, cause I think it's important that we all are very solidified beside
the fact, because I think there's still some and genuinely I feel even the last
year or two, it's been a big change, but I think there's still some hunters
out there that don't believe that their guns are literally on the chopping
blocks right now that believe that, oh, they'll never get rid of bolt actions.
They'll never get rid of this.
They'll never get rid of that.
Um, I don't know.
What are your guys thoughts on that?
Joe Eppele: I mean, it's a fight of a death by 1000 cuts, right?
And it's the same thing that's been happening with our Um, you
know, a lot of people in the grizzly bear hunt was banned.
A lot of hunters just want, well, I don't hunt grizz.
So I don't care.
Right.
But that was like the grizzly bear was the big barrier in
front of all the other species.
So as soon as the grizzly bear went, then there was the fight
we had for the cats and the fight we're having for other predators.
And so it's.
It's not like these groups or the, the opposition is going
to go, okay, we won the battle.
That was the only battle we want.
We walk away, right?
For them, they have a long plan and they're a unified group.
So talking about, you know, how fragmented we are and everybody's in their own pocket
and they're like, Oh, that's their fight.
It doesn't touch me.
I completely agree as a society.
We all need to understand like this isn't going to stop.
After one of these things, top on some of the groups, open state.
Well, this is the only thing we're coming.
We're only coming for the cat hunts.
If the cat hunts stop, we're going to go away.
Well, yes, that official organization might go away, but you don't think 90
percent of those members are going to come back under a different umbrella, under a
different name, with a different group.
Like that's, that's, what's going to continually happen.
And that's what we see.
That's what we saw after the grizzly bear hunt.
What really happens is every time they get a win.
It's like a sports team.
You gain that momentum and you become that much fiercer of a group.
And then everybody rallies behind it because it's like, Oh wait, they
actually were able to get a victory.
Well, now I'm going to, now I really believe in it.
We're going to have this change.
We're going to do this.
And the challenge that we really face is on our side, we're really held under a
microscope and we have to speak truths.
We can't step out of line and falsify information.
The other side, 90 percent of what they put on these banners,
billboards, some of these people that they're teaching in school.
It's completely false right now.
So, um, I kind of went on a bit of a tangent there, but I would say, you know,
all of these different groups and all these different pockets in the shooting
sports, everybody needs to come together.
Because, like Rod said earlier this morning at the, at the life member
breakfast, um, you know, a lot of the guns that have been put on the chopping
block already are guns that he never in a million years would have thought
would have come and they're gone and they're in the rear view mirror now.
And it's not like they're going to stop and go, okay, we got this.
We're happy.
I mean, you can just look at the list they're putting forward and they're
literally just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks
like there's no logic behind it.
And that shows you alone that they don't have an end in sight.
They're just going, let's grab as many as we can now.
And then we'll let them calm down a little bit and then they'll
go, okay, everything's fine.
And then we'll come back and we'll grab a few more and we'll grab a few more.
And it's the same thing they're going to do with the hunting licenses.
They're going to go, okay, no, wait, no.
They stood up and fought for the cats.
Okay.
We won't, we won't go after cats.
What else can we go after?
What else can we sneak away while everybody's looking over here?
What else can we pull out the back door and that's what they're gonna keep doing
They're circling and they're just gonna pull away pull away and pretty soon We're
gonna be sitting there and you're on the last hill and people are gonna go.
How did we get here?
And it's because everybody didn't come together.
Everybody didn't get each other's backs, right?
Like that's that's what needs to happen So to your point like I agree we need to
get everybody together and one unified front messaging needs to be consistent
across the board Um, that's essential if we're gonna, the way things are
going, I mean, yes, maybe obviously some changes in office could impact
that, but I mean, yes, it could make things a lot better, but is that going
to stop some of these organizations?
They're always going to find a way to come after us.
So we do, as a community, need to come together, bring more into
the fold, increase our numbers.
Larger numbers, stronger voice, and then everybody's forced to
listen to the larger numbers.
Because everybody just listens to the loudest voice in the room, unfortunately.
Travis Bader: I agree with that, and I agree that people should realize the death
by a thousand cuts, like you say there.
Because if you look at like, go back a few years, Paul Martin, he's like,
I'm not going to touch your guns.
I'm not going to do anything with your guns.
A second he gets in, all right, let's ban all the handguns.
And he got so much pushback on that and it fell flat on its face.
Trudeau comes in and says, death by a thousand cuts, camel in the tent.
Please sir, it's so cold outside.
Can I just put my hoof inside your tent?
And before you know it, you're sleeping outside and your camel's on the inside.
And that's how this goes.
I'm not a hundred percent sure.
That trying to organize the, uh, the hunting community and the firearms
community is the best option.
Like if the entire firearms community, the entire hunting community got up and they
started saying, here's what's going on.
And they're fighting with logic.
Uh, again, we find ourself in that situation where you're trying
to fight emotion with logic.
I think.
You've already, arguments already been framed in a way where
you're fighting a losing battle.
I think the argument needs to be framed, reframed a little bit differently, such
as, if they can come for this from you, why couldn't they come for that for you?
And I see Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses doing that, the
CFIB, and they're looking at property rights as opposed to, oh, if they take
your handguns or your shotguns or your rifles, they're saying, Well, if they
can arbitrarily come in and say, you can't have this through ordering counsel
through no legislative, uh, voting, no, no due process, what's to stop them from
doing something similar when it comes to your bank account, when it comes to your
business, when it comes to your house.
And I think the voice, the numbers that you need to come
from more of that visceral emotion where all the people are like.
In the gun community, I don't own handguns, it doesn't bother me,
or the non hunters and the non firers people, that's you, that's
you guys, how does that affect me?
Well, the amount of money it costs on these, and I'm going to do air quotes
here for people listening, the buyback, which is, it's just confiscation.
Yeah,
Sean Zubor: exactly.
Travis Bader: Like Blaine said last night, how do you buy back
something that you've never owned?
Yeah.
I think that it needs to be a strategic reframing of what's going on and
putting a spotlight on the, the general malfeasance of government and how
they're moving forward to, to take, uh, rights to take property or to,
to take the steps that they're doing.
I, I think that would be
Sean Zubor: I think that would work.
I think it's going to be a two pronged approach.
I think both sides, the reality is, is if we have inner fighting or we're not
working together as a hunting shooting community, you know, we're all on
the same side and where we're going.
I think that hurts us one particular way because you know how it is.
If you look at any type of, uh, Look at how wars are run.
First thing you're trying to do is separate, you know, the
good from the bad within people.
You're trying to, um, everybody hates to use COVID, but you said as an example,
uh, during COVID, it doesn't matter if you believe in it, don't believe in it, think
it kills people, don't think it kills people, the vaccine, whatever it is, how
the government villainized people, in my personal opinion, was completely wrong.
Right.
And that's, you see families that have completely stopped talking to
each other that have like disowned each other that because one's like
an anti vaxxer, one's a vaxxer.
I won't even use anti vaxxer, just didn't believe in that particular
one or whatever the case is.
So it's a very, very powerful tool to split communities.
With certain beliefs, right?
So I feel like if our community comes together and we realize that we're
all fighting the same fight, A. B, if we realize the fact that, and Joe hit
it on the nail, you look at all these conservation, or sorry, not, they're not
conservation groups, all these groups that are trying to say get rid of the bear
hunt or get rid of, at the end of the day, you look at their, their motivation at
the end, It is to eliminate all hunting.
You look at any of these people that are trying to get rid of any kind
of guns, uh, or, you know, the ARs to start with or whatever it may be.
Their motivation in the very end is to eliminate all firearms.
It is not.
This is all just a starting point.
We all really have to realize that if we don't fight back now, and
that is really what you're doing.
If we don't come together as a force, I think we're going to be, uh, we're
going to have, we won't have anything left to fight for because everything.
And, and Joe, you said this as well as like, I mean, it's death by a thousand
cuts, really what it is is just creating normalization, like I've already heard
people, well, you know, I've given up.
I'm not going to get my arrow back or I've given up.
I'm like, it's gone.
Well.
The reality is if you give that up, right, and you have that mentality
that it's given up, you will never get it back because now you're just
focused on fighting what you're going to still be able to keep now
instead of moving back into the retrospective where we were, right?
So, I, I, I think it's, it's, uh, it's a challenging time.
Luckily, I think we're in the right direction in a lot of cases.
Excuse me, but I think a third prong attempt too, and I think this is like,
you guys are doing an incredibly great job about this and, you know, the Joe
Rogans of the world and so on and so forth, is, I think, bringing other people
into the scope of the outdoors, right?
Getting them to understand.
People that camp, people that, um, I think a massive, massive thing that we really
need to focus on is bringing more women into, into our activities or sports or
shooting or, or hunting or, you know, getting them involved, understanding
how much of a family practice this is, you know, like getting kids involved.
Bringing people that are outside of our community to go fire a gun and
realize that, Hey, the gun didn't jump off the table and start killing people.
You know what I mean?
And we just had some psychos once in a blue moon that did things right.
So I think there's a lot of opportunity to kind of bring that awareness and having.
Um, you know, for lack of a better word, these celebrities or having people that
are out there voicing their opinions loud and clear and speaking well and showing by
action, leading by example, I think these are ways that we can definitely change the
tide and you're seeing it in the states.
You're seeing it here in a lot of cases in Alberta and so on and so forth.
I think we need to keep pressing.
My worry is, is we do bring another government in.
That will be a good government.
And all of a sudden we lay off, lay off the gas and we're
like, Oh, we're good now.
And then we set ourselves up for sure.
It's for another Trudeau and whenever years,
Joe Eppele: yeah, I don't think the fights are going to go anywhere
regardless of what happens.
And, and, um, you know, we have to keep our guard up, but I definitely, yeah,
I think you guys both made phenomenal points there, Travis, to your point, um,
you know, reef using the exact reframe it and applying it to something else.
And then using that as a really good tool of how we could pull
more into the fold and educate.
When it comes to situations, like the ones we're talking about, it's a very
polarizing argument, but the big thing is the majority of society, like, yes,
maybe 10, 15, 20 percent sit at either end and they're going, okay, what do
we do with this 8, 60 to 80 percent of the population that's in the middle?
How do we reach them?
And for us, sometimes we just speak our side and hope that
people will understand it.
But a lot of those people in the middle who don't hunt, who don't have guns,
who don't see it, they're like, well, I live in, you know, um, City center.
I don't see these things.
Why would you need to hunt?
Why would you need to?
Because like we talked about earlier, vast majority of people have never gone
north past to these really wild places.
They don't see grizzly bears on a daily basis.
They don't see wolves.
They don't see what's actually happening on the, on the landscape.
Finding a way to reach them and showing them that we're not these villains like
Certain groups are really trying to make us out to be so saying well, this is why
we're actually frustrated So, you know educating somebody with a piece and you
know, could you imagine you're watching a video and it talks about you know What
would you do if one day you woke up and someone told you something about a vehicle
or your property or your right for?
Some sort of other freedom or uh, you know, and then this was all done With
no education, there's no logic behind the decisions and you, you structured
it that way, people's hair on their back would stand up and they go, how
could something like that happen?
And you go, well, that is what's been happening here and then, and
then bring them in all of a sudden people might start paying attention.
So, and then bring them in and then bring them as a part of this
unified society of everybody else.
And then that voice grows.
So I think both pieces of that can come together and yeah, cause right now it's
one of those challenging things is.
I feel like the hunting society, the shooting society, has always rested on
historically of, you know, the actions speak louder than words, but like the
silent type, this is the way it's been, this is the way it should always be.
Because we talk about the heritage, we talk about this is
what's always been happening.
But that, I don't think that dialogue, that story is serving us as well
as it used to, and it's changing.
So I think finding ways to change our story, to change how we bring other
people into the fold is very important.
Travis Bader: I think you're bang on.
I don't think, um, I don't think setting yourself up to fight somebody's emotional
act, uh, Accusations is putting yourself in the, in the best possible position.
And there are other things that are going on in society right now that
people can piggyback on if they're trying to have another side understand
sort of their position, they can piggyback on the local food movement.
Right.
And, uh, they understand food.
They might not understand hunting, but they understand food and
where that food comes from.
Maybe there's a segue in.
How about the indigenous people out there as hunting and fishing
as a part of a way of life?
You're going to tell them that they shouldn't be able to hunt anymore.
And if you wouldn't say that, why would you say that to another group?
Like, are you racist?
Right?
It's, I mean, the same sort of logic could be used back and forth, but
I think really, and you're right.
There's always going to be the few percent that are one side,
few percent the other side.
And most of the people in the middle, they just don't care.
They're, they're not even, it's not even on their radar, but even if you take
those ardent opposition on either side, you'll probably find that you have more
similarities than you do have differences.
That you don't like guns because you've been negatively affected by it, or you've
read about things in the news where people have been negatively affected,
so you want to get rid of them all.
Well, guess what?
The gun people over here, they don't like this stuff they're seeing in the news and
they don't want to be negatively affected.
But if we get rid of it all, does that mean that we're
going to stop all gun violence?
Well, no.
What's the end objective?
We want to have a safe society.
If we get rid of all hunting, what's that going to mean?
Well, we're no longer going to have conservation groups that actually
look after and manage these animals.
And we have things for generations to come.
Do you want animals for generations to come?
Yes.
Well, maybe we should reframe how we're looking at that.
And I think if we start looking at those similarities that we have
and picking away at those, we might have a different conversation.
Because the second we're on these polar sides, I don't think
either side really gets anywhere.
Sean Zubor: Let me ask you guys a question then on this portion.
Um, because I agree with everything you guys are saying.
You would.
Definitely.
We're on the same side.
Um.
My question to you, I guess, is, as you mentioned, you know, like
the 10 percent on each side, these extremists on both sides, right?
I think over the last, and I think this is one of the reasons why we're
actually starting to see a shift politically and all these other things
is because the 10%, I'll just call it out as the left, let's just say the
extreme left, has been so loud and has been basically shaming everybody else.
You know, outside the rest of the 90 percent that they've been shaming
their way into getting things done.
How do how do we?
All of these things we talk about, bringing people into the community, uh,
showing them, for example, like, hey, you may have nothing to do with guns,
but, uh, that car, you know, why do you have to have a thousand horsepower car?
You know, you could kill a bunch of people and you're taking way too
much fuel and so on and so forth.
Like, we're gonna confiscate that because nobody needs that.
Just like nobody needs a semi automatic weapon, for example.
And we're using these types of things.
How do we get our voice out there, like the 1 percent of the
extreme left have over the years?
Travis Bader: I don't think you do.
Sean Zubor: No?
Travis Bader: No.
I, I think, obviously we need groups.
We need people who will have that voice and who carry it out.
My personal opinion is that you start educating people on, uh, how many
media can manipulate, how people can manipulate facts or outright
lie and things that we can look for.
Sean Zubor: Sorry, sorry, sorry to interrupt you.
So, but how do you educate them?
How do you get that out there?
What do you think?
And to a better question, because you know, there's three of us that are
on social media quite a bit and we do our things, but I'm not really a hunt,
like the hunting community per se.
I love you guys.
I love Watchmen.
I'm more of a fan boy than anything.
So, but you guys, this is your living.
Like you guys literally work and breathe in, in the hunting
industry, outdoor industry.
Um, how does, how does the regular average person that's here?
Right?
Or maybe that's not who we're saying, but the person that's in there, how
do they get out and communicate and say these things and educate and
like, what, if somebody is listening to this today, what should they do?
Or, I'm not, we're obviously not telling them what to do, but
at the end of the day, what can they do to make a difference?
Travis Bader: I, I think educating ourselves personally about how arguments
are formed on how media can be manipulated and being able to call out blatant lies
when we see it and point to Why that is.
I mean, Noam Chomsky has written a number of books on just the
power of media manipulation.
I think he's actually got a masterclass right now through
that, that whole masterclass thing.
But I think if people are able to start spotting out, well, hold on a second,
that argument doesn't hold water.
Like if you have a point, let's make your point, as opposed
to trying to argue the point.
Because the second you find yourself arguing the point, and you're already
in a position, let's say it's an emotional point, you're, you're
Fighting against the flow of water.
So if you can at least Uh, through your own discourse, start
understanding how, uh, a different perspective of the argument.
Like, hold on a second, let's talk.
What is it you're trying to actually get at?
Or why would you say that when, rather than pointing to
facts, use their same argument?
In the same way that, like, when COVID happened, like you point out there,
people would talk in hushed tones.
They wouldn't want it, like It was really weird.
I would have podcasts if people be off air.
Like I wanted to say this, but I couldn't because I'd be canceled.
And you talk about, and you say the left, the extreme left, but there has
been a very effective manipulation through media and through social media
through cancel culture in the past.
And I think the zeitgeist now is.
There is a flavor for, uh, that to stop.
People are not going to be bullied through DEI and saying, Well, you don't agree with
this diversity, equity, inclusion thing.
So you must be a racist.
You must be a Nazi, right?
I think that's where the, um, I don't think we lose messaging on
what we think is factually correct.
But I think we have to be more adept at being able to Uh, reframe
an argument or point out in a way that will humiliate in the same way
that you would be humiliated, right?
Just point out the ludicrous of it.
Joe Eppele: I'm trying to think of anything I would add
on top of what you just said.
I think you, you really touched on everything well there.
Um, yeah, and I think the other thing is just, I mean, especially on social media,
everybody's first reaction is to attack and emotionally attack and, and, you know,
take a breath and understand sometimes.
Like people are on there they're baiting you and they want you to step
in and sometimes the first reaction the first thing you want to type in there
and say is Almost gonna prove their point and then you know Unvalidate
anything you're gonna say after that.
So so taking that step and going I always Use a term, you know
used to play professional sports.
Travis Bader: Did you
Joe Eppele: really once upon a time?
Yeah, I was really good at badminton
And I always say there's a difference between locker room
talk and the press conference talk.
And understand that these social platforms, a lot of people go, well it's
a social platform, I want to be able to say whatever I'm supposed to say.
Well no, it's a social platform, yes.
Everything that we're putting on these social platforms is
going to be used against us.
Like it's, like when someone's getting arrested, you know, anything
you say can and will be used against you in the court of law.
It's the same thing.
You can have your, your conversations about certain things and speak in a
certain tone amongst the boys, amongst your hunt group, whatever it is, but
when you're going on social media, understand, a lot of the time I try and,
and I, don't get me wrong, I don't get it perfect all the time, I make a lot of
mistakes, understand that you're You're not always when I speak or respond to
somebody, I'm not even thinking, how is this person going to react to it?
I go, everybody that reads this, whose side are they going to take?
And if you get involved too emotionally and too aggressive and you're just, you
know, start name calling things like that.
Everybody's going to go, wow, this guy is this redneck idiot, right?
Like that's what they're going to think.
Wow.
This person really, you know, caught him.
Whereas.
You know, every now and then you see the response, some responses, you
know, you're just not going to win.
And I'll be honest, I block a lot of people like you're gone.
Like I don't have time for you because this isn't nothing positive
is going to come from this.
But if someone's open to dialogue, I'll communicate with them, even if I know
I'm not going to convince them, but I, okay, well, maybe some other people that
they know are going to check this out.
And then they're going to go, wow, this guy actually made a good point.
Travis Bader: So you comport yourself,
Joe Eppele: right?
So, so, so that sometimes is a way to win.
Um, but yeah, you're not going to win all those arguments.
You're not going to, you're not going to win them.
I, and oddly enough, sometimes I have had one of the most
frustrating things I have come up.
Actually is at the end of some of these dialogues, people go.
Okay, but I'm not talking about you.
You're one of the good ones.
And we'll bring, we'll bring this full circle moment here is like we've all
been here at this venue all weekend and you walk around every person in this
building is one of the good ones because the best people you will ever meet,
you meet through the outdoors, right?
Because it just brings, it brings the best out in so many people.
Sean Zubor: So.
Joe Eppele: Um, I just, I hate that when people go, yeah,
but I'm not talking about you.
I'm talking about the rest of them.
I'm like, but the rest of them are just like me, you know, maybe some people
don't approach it with the same angle, but like when you dig down, you sit
down and talk with anybody here this weekend, everybody's the same inside.
Right.
So, so it's, yeah, I hate that.
Yeah.
But if everybody can kind of do that and everybody can show them
that we're all one of the good ones.
We'll start winning some of that argument.
Sean Zubor: I like that.
I love it.
Okay, last question, because we're already stretching time here.
Hold
Travis Bader: on, I got one point I okay, sorry, sorry, sorry.
The answer to the question.
Okay, alright, perfect.
I, I like, uh, what, what Joe's saying about writing it down, if
someone would read it at a later date.
I always try and write things down in a way, if a trier of fact in
the future had to look at this and weigh it out simply on what they see
here, what would their opinion be?
And I find oftentimes when I'm engaging in something, whether it's social
media or wherever there's an initial emotional response, they're wrong.
I'm right.
I know I'm right.
I know they're wrong.
However.
There's a lot of power to asking questions because there has been once
or twice, maybe, where I was mistaken and I misunderstood what was going on.
And a lot of powerful, um, statements can be made through asking a question
and it leaves you with some leeway to be able to retreat and understand.
And I think that's what people should be seeking to do is to understand
each other prior to seeking to.
Prove your point, because if I can understand you and hopefully we
can then reach a point where you can understand me, we'll probably
find pretty similar where we're at.
Sean Zubor: Some kind of common ground.
It's funny that you say that in sales.
Yeah, that's um, because I can be a complete hothead and I've said a
lot of stupid stuff on social media way too much, um, just be real.
And, uh, yeah, I have a lot of followers.
I've lost a lot of followers.
I've lost clients, everything.
And it's because, like And I think this is something that I've learned over
time is I get very emotional over this as well, because I, I feel deep down.
It's right.
I feel like somebody stealing something from me, you know, so there's a
lot of things, especially somebody stealing something from me that
would be crying that I'm stealing something from them of that wouldn't
even be significance type deal.
Right?
So, um, but I hear everything you guys are saying, and I've been, I'm
like, well, Hey, why don't I just apply what I do in sales, which is.
Travis Bader: That's a good point.
Sean Zubor: Basically just questions, you know, I'm, I'm always trying to
find somebody's motivation on, you know, what, why they're building
this tower, what's the dream, where they're going, etc. And it's the
same thing when you can ask somebody that has a differentiating opinion to
you on what makes you feel that way.
What made you, what brought you to this decision?
You start asking these questions.
A lot of times they can't even answer themselves.
Right?
So it brings it to the forefront that it is more or less just a
bias, not an actual reason why.
And then you can start having a conversation, right?
So it's funny that you mentioned this over the last couple of years.
I've learned to bite my tongue a bit and Joey hit around the fort and it's
like, okay, no, not supposed to say that.
Uh, definitely get a ban for that one.
And then, uh, yeah, just think it through and then just start with
the question process is huge.
Okay.
On a lighter tone.
Last question.
What's your favorite animal to hunt?
Are
Joe Eppele: we starting a new podcast?
That is a big one.
Um, you know what, the one I always go back to personally,
um, blacktail, blacktail deer.
And for me, it's just that nostalgic hunt.
Um, it's what I grew up doing.
I grew up hunting blacktail with my father.
That's what originally, I mean, grouse and blacktail is what I'd
fell in love with as a child.
So there's that nostalgic side to it.
And it's that one hunt that.
It still makes me feel like that kid again, where I make the dumbest decisions.
And afterwards I look back and I go, why the heck did I do that?
Because it still gets me so fluttered.
Whereas some of the other hunts, don't get me wrong.
I make, I make mistakes on every hunt that happens, but with Blacktail, it
just, it always brings me right back into that childhood memory and just.
Because let's be honest, blacktail hunting, if you're doing it right, a
lot of the time, it's the nastiest, rainiest, most miserable day.
And half the time I'm out there, I'm like, why do I love this so much?
I, I hate that I love it so much, but that's what it is.
It's that nostalgic hunt for me.
That's, that's what brings it back.
That, and talking about that, uh, type two verging on the
side of type three kind of hunt.
The whole part leading up to, I mean, cause I injured that deer.
And then it was over a 24 hour recovery process and tracking it down.
And finishing the job
Sean Zubor: rating or something too.
Right.
If I remember right, it looked wet.
It
Joe Eppele: was snowing at the point of the first shot wounded the animal.
I thought it was a miss wounded the animal found blood.
The rain turned to snow.
I had two hours before dark tracked it as far as I could.
That night didn't recover it in my mind, thought it wasn't a fatal
injury, but there's, there's a whole bunch to that again, talk
about the nostalgic part of it.
It was my father's birthday and that the hunt hadn't been going well or
would have been my father's birthday.
And, uh, yeah, I saw that buck and when I found out when it was a miss, I went,
you know what, dad, I let you down.
But then when I found out I injured it, it was just like this weight really letting
him down just made it that much heavier.
So then 24 hours later or whatever it was having it all come together.
Um, and that's a hunt that's going to be tough to top for me.
And, uh, yeah, that, that was a beautiful buck though.
And then the way it finished with the tumble into the, over the 80, a hundred
foot cliff into the river bottom.
And
Sean Zubor: that's what I was going to creak in a river.
Yeah, it was a mess.
Joe Eppele: There's a lot to that one, but again, that would have to be the
start of a new podcast if I done that
Sean Zubor: one.
Travis Bader: All right, boss.
Moose, uh, moose, spring bear.
I love spring bear, but something about moose is giant animals that
are just ghosts in the forest and being able to call them in working
in their, uh, their habitat.
It's, um, it's always been a special hunt for me.
And then, I don't know, spring bear.
There's something about the spring bear, being out in the warmer weather and, uh,
family, um, I, I enjoy those as well.
You?
Sean Zubor: So I would say, I would say I don't know.
There's a couple of times.
I don't know.
This is my question.
I'm not even answering it well, but, um, I, I love sheep hunting cause it's an
adventure and you know, I did last year, I did a couple of ultra marathons, a hundred
kilometer one and all this other stuff and I just like pushing myself and you
just feel this accomplishment afterwards.
And it's just, I feel like I'm in different places I've never seen before.
So I would say for the overall challenge, it would be, it would
be a sheep hunter, a goat hunt.
Um, But it's not something I could do more than once a year.
You know what I mean?
Like some of these guys, these young guys I'm talking to, I'm
going three sheep hunts next year.
But, uh, but really, I think last year, my favorite hunt to date, uh, and I have
some really great ones with my dad too, but I think it's bringing Hunter, my, my
oldest out, and him shooting his first couple grouse with a Pelican and a 410.
It's crazy.
Like when I, um, I used to compete, uh, as you guys know, in MMA and
Jiu Jitsu and so on and so forth.
And there were, it was always awesome.
You know, fighting in front of thousands of people is really cool, but nothing
replaces like watching some of my students that were 15 years old when
the Pan Ams and stuff like you just get this, uh, I don't know, you're, you
feel like you're doing the right thing.
You know, when you're out there hunting, it's sometimes like, especially on a
sheep hunt where you're gone for a couple of weeks, it can be a. A selfish moment,
you know, you like, you feel like that kind of like what you're talking about,
Joe, like you're leaving your family, you're leaving all these other things.
I mean, even though it's a must and it's something that's really good for you.
And I think you bring it back to your family, tenfold and your
friends and so on and so forth.
But yeah, I think like watching it pass down in the generation, I think
it's, it's yeah, huge for me for sure.
No, there's something
Joe Eppele: special in that passing of the torch and passing that
tradition on and everything like that.
I mean, we go back to our hunting heritage conversation, but yeah, I
mean, you're at a much different stage.
My boys are going to be a few years before they can run around, especially
on their own walkers three, why it's a month old, um, but Walker already
has a huge passion for the outdoors.
He loves getting out there and I'm going to continually push him.
And, and, and I think it's something special too.
It's every.
You know, father, parents dream is that their Children will want to go into it.
And for me, it's not so much that I want him to be a driven, motivated hunter.
I just want him to learn all the lessons and the values that I lost that I
learned through my experiences out there.
It teaches you so much about perseverance, about trials and tribulations,
about doing everything right.
And stuff's still not working out.
Um, and just.
You know, it, it teaches you all of those lessons, those values
being prepared, responsibility.
Um, so, so that's what I really want to be able to hand on down to them.
So, I mean, when you were talking about that, like it literally gives me
goosebumps thinking about when I'm at the age where I get to see those boys
doing the, oh man, it's, that's a dream.
It's
Sean Zubor: amazing.
And I have my youngest, Jack.
He's, uh, he's turning seven.
He's there too.
And he's just, yeah, it is, it is pretty, uh, watching them play
with the fire and all these, yeah, it brings back memories as a kid.
It's, it's been huge for sure.
Okay.
Well, before we wrap it up, even though I think this is gonna be your podcast,
before we wrap it up, cause we are in this amazing place.
And a lot of people have been saying this.
Joe, quick question.
How do they become a member?
Um, what are like a couple of the different levels?
What, what should they be doing?
I mean, might as well, we're here.
Let's, let's promote.
First
Joe Eppele: and foremost, I mean, yeah, if you're here, obviously
there'll be members walking around.
People can get signed up.
If you're not here physically and those at home watching,
just go and watch Huge Society.
Uh, vc.
com, I believe is the website we can maybe throw it on the, and there'll be
drop downs and you can talk about all the various different, uh, memberships.
Obviously there's, there's individual memberships, there's
annual memberships, and then there's, um, lifetime memberships.
And then you can get into the tiers of the lifetime memberships.
Um, after your original lifetime membership, there's actually
opportunities to get charitable tax receipts as well, which is a big driver.
Um, and then a new one we launched last year is the, the half
curl membership, which is for.
It's it's a lifetime membership for our members under 18 and it's a that's a 500
membership But then you're a lifetime member up until your 18th birthday Don
Stevens were sitting across from his booth right now All of our half curl members
were presented with a beautiful plaque and a custom made knife from Don Stevens
So they all get that it's and again, it's talking about, you know passing the torch.
We're hoping that You know, creating these special events, there's gonna
be special hunts drawn just for our youth being able to, you know, prizes,
raffles, everything that, and then throughout the year, we're gonna have
different events for our youth as well.
Um, but create that healthy funnel where we bring people up in this
culture and show that it really is.
Uh, family environment.
It's a community.
There's so much more to it.
So, so that's a big thing.
But yeah, everything is available online.
Go on the website, check it out.
Um, and, and it's not one of those things where you have to have a ton of money
to have an impact, you know, um, you can sign up for just a one year membership.
And I was, I did, I think, I think two or three just one year memberships
before I decided to be a life member.
And now I'm a monarch.
So I took a few steps after that.
And now both my boys.
Our half curl members.
And it's just one of those things where it's a group that I started on
the outside and I saw the dollars that I put in directly trans transition to
translate into boots on the ground.
And then as I started going to the AGMs and started to go to these
things, you really do see, like, it's not like some of those other
organizations where 20 cents on the dollar actually makes it to the cause.
So, so I started feeling better and better about it.
And it's like, okay, well I'm putting money there.
I want to put my time there.
And it's, it's just one of those communities where once you.
Get your toe in the door.
You don't want to leave and you want to do more, become more involved.
You want to be a part of it more and more and more.
And, uh, that's, so just get started.
Get online.
Sign up for just a year membership.
Come down, check it out, see what it's all about.
And it's just one of those places that you look forward to being every year.
Travis Bader: To your point about toe in the door there, every year I
do the 60 bucks or whatever it is.
So today my wife and I got the, uh, lifetime membership.
You put that challenge out yesterday.
Of course, kind of cheated a little bit with, uh, with
Wyatt there, but that's good.
That's good.
It was a good challenge for everyone.
And that, uh, the half curl, when they turn 18, they get a
lifetime membership at half price.
Joe Eppele: So the 500 fee of the half curl membership is basically
your deposit on your life member.
So then once you get to 18, there'll be a coming of age ceremony.
You'll be notified.
This can be a year, there'll be a presentation.
They go to go up on stage and they just pay the remaining balance.
And then they're a member for life.
And you had access to all those resources, all of those opportunities.
I mean, we're giving away a guided whitetail hunt, and there's
only, I think, less than 20 members right now that qualify.
Both of my sons don't qualify for that hunt because they're under 10.
It's only the 10 to 18 year olds.
And those hunt opportunities are only going to get better year after year.
So if you're going to sign up every, you're going to qualify for that every
year from now until your 18th birthday.
And it's, yeah, there's some great things.
And I do want to say that was my challenge.
I issued Wyatt was yes.
My I've checked that box.
My challenge to myself to bring one member into the fold is on top of that.
So that did not include Wyatt,
but,
Travis Bader: um, second, you said it, I leaned over beside
me, I said, He's got an easy one.
All he's got to do is get Wyatt up there.
He's got it set, and then he mentioned.
Joe Eppele: Yeah, and the other thing worth mentioning as well in talking
about finance is obviously it's not always easy to do the full commitment.
Yes, year after year, there's the annual ones.
If you want to get into a lifetime, there's payment plans.
So you can set it up on monthly plans or whatever it is.
It doesn't have to be chipped away.
And then once you're a life member, you can chip away to
your different stages of Monarch.
Year after year, there's different ways to contribute.
It doesn't have to be a one time purchase.
It doesn't have to be that huge hit.
You can, you can stagger it out throughout the year for sure.
Sean Zubor: And I'll throw this out there too, because I'm
sure this is going to come up.
What if I don't hunt sheep?
Um, what if I don't hunt goats?
What if I'm not a mountain hunter, et cetera?
Um, I'm going to throw it.
This is just.
personal anecdotal stuff.
So I was a lifetime member before I ever went on my first sheep hunt or right
around the same time, give or take.
And I can tell you one thing, and I'm obviously, it's an amazing thing and
the support system for, um, for our wildlife in and of itself, but Hey,
it's difficult to find people that want to actually do sheep hunting.
It's difficult to find people that want to show you the way or
learn from or so on and so forth.
And I can tell you here.
You hang out here, you become part of the society you're going to meet.
I'm not saying they're going to give you all their honey holes, but, um,
you're going to meet people that are, you know, you can become friends with,
go on sheep hunts, build that community.
You can actually learn how to hunt.
I mean, how many, uh, hunting university things did we have in
the last couple of days, like 30 or 40 of them still go exactly.
Right.
So.
If you're looking like the price of admission to learn how to hunt these
amazing, uh, uh, animals and to overall be a part of the community that will
help you teach and learn and maybe find that hunting partner that you
need that will actually put those boots on and head up the mountain is
an amazing place to do it for sure worth every penny just on that alone to
Joe Eppele: add on top of that, you said, you know, for individuals that
want to get into hunting, but even individuals that don't intend to
hunt this, these funds go towards.
Yeah.
Habitat restoration towards disease prevention, education, things like that.
That's what this money's going towards.
One of those organizations, it's the money directly goes to boots on the
ground efforts to making sure that our landscape have these wild animals
on them for the future generations.
So even if you don't intend to hunt, but you just love the outdoors, it's
a phenomenal organization to get involved with on that basis alone.
And then down the road, yes, maybe one day you'll get pulled into the fold
and looped into going on a hunt or have an opportunity, but it's, you don't
have to be a hunter to come here and feel good about being here and feel
good about what your money's doing.
Right.
So.
Travis Bader: Awesome.
Well said.
I think we, uh, call it a up there.
Yeah.
Sean Zubor: Thanks boys.
Travis Bader: It's been great.
Sean Zubor: Thanks for having me.