WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:04.879
You're listening to The Bible Guys,
a podcast where a couple of friends talk

2
00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:13.160
about the Bible in fun in practical
ways. Hey, everybody, it is

3
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.600
me. Go ahead, Hey everybody, thank you for tuning in, and

4
00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:19.960
welcome to the Bible Guys. We
are so glad that you're here. I'm

5
00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:24.920
Jeff and this is I am Chris
Barbo Chris Sarbo, and we are super

6
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:29.879
excited about today because we have one
of our favorite games, and this is

7
00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:32.600
the Guess the Word game. Yeah, right, so this would be like,

8
00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:35.479
what's what's the board game like you'd
play at home? Taboo Taboo,

9
00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:38.799
kind of like taboo. So there's
a word I'm trying to get Chris to

10
00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.759
say, and then there's a bunch
of words I'm not allowed to say.

11
00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:46.320
And here on this one, she's
getting Desiree is getting really aggressive because she

12
00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:51.960
said I can't use the italicized words
or I lose a thousand points. It

13
00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.799
doesn't say how many points you get
for guessing. She's only just punishing me.

14
00:00:56.200 --> 00:00:59.039
There's only punishment for me. There's
no reward for you, just punishment

15
00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:03.799
for It's all zero row. Unless
you screw up, then that's what happened.

16
00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:06.640
Hey, by the way, if
you're happened to be watching this instead

17
00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:08.159
of listening, Uh, we're going
to put the words on the bottom of

18
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.719
the screen that Jeff is not allowed
to say, just for fun, right,

19
00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.560
And now the very first one,
you accidentally opened up my file instead

20
00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.079
of yours, which I never do, well, I should say, hardly

21
00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:21.519
ever do. He was trying to
sneak. He was trying to he heard

22
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.439
that there was a thousand points on
the line for these for me, and

23
00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:27.120
you're trying to just know what I
actually did. In between the segments,

24
00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:30.439
I said, Jeff, I said, you're going to guess the word,

25
00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:32.560
and he goes, no, you're
guessing the word. I said, no,

26
00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:34.079
you're guessing the word. And then
I realized I'd open up the wrong

27
00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:38.719
file, wrong file. So the
first one was supposed to be speed,

28
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.599
speed, and I wasn't allowed to
say fast, slow, velocity limit or

29
00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.959
quick. What would you have said, uh, movie with Sandra Bullock.

30
00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:49.879
Yes, that's what I was going
to say to you. That's what I

31
00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.519
was looking at. The word.
I would said bus bus movie with Sandra

32
00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:57.159
Bullock, Yes, yes, and
I would say j Yeah. I would

33
00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:02.519
have said speed for sure, you
know me because that's and by the way,

34
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.519
that is the word that I looked
at. I didn't look at any

35
00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:08.599
of the any of the of the
other words. Right, so here we

36
00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.759
go. Uh, here's the second
one that I'm not allowed to say.

37
00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.439
There's five words I'm not allowed to
say, yes, squead, I'm waiting

38
00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:23.400
largest, yes, flightless creature,
ostrich, Ostrich, that's correct. I'm

39
00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:29.319
not allowed to say sand bird,
feather, egg or emu. Oh wow,

40
00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:35.159
so yeah, those were hard well
largest flightless creature was a great description.

41
00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:37.560
There you go, because that's obviously
the osc Yes. Have you ever

42
00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:39.000
seen an Ostrich in the wild?
Yes? No, no, no,

43
00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:42.520
not in the wild. No.
Have I seen them in like in a

44
00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:46.360
safari? I don't think so.
I've seen him in Koru, I've seen

45
00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:51.280
him in the zoo. Okay.
Anyways, all right, here's a tough

46
00:02:51.280 --> 00:03:00.560
one. Uh one eye, one
leg, one I uh pirate. There

47
00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:04.039
you go. Okay, I could
have said jack sparrow. That's what I

48
00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:07.719
should have said, right, Oh
man, this is a tough one.

49
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:13.719
I was about to say ship patch, treasure sword or parrot. Oh yeah,

50
00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:23.879
so that that was tough. Okay. You could have said are okay?

51
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:29.199
So this is a really hard one. Yeah, looking forward to it.

52
00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:38.400
They always play this song as a
it's from the late seventies, kind

53
00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:46.280
of a disco song as a time. So what's the first one? Oh,

54
00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:50.439
celebrate, Celebrate, that's right,
man live that was hard rejoice birthday

55
00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.840
party occasion. How about the fact
that I guessed that you got from there?

56
00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.159
There you go, that's right.
I was. I was literally thinking

57
00:03:57.199 --> 00:03:59.280
there was like a two percent chance
it was going to be that song.

58
00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:01.199
It was like he said, they
always play that song, and I thought,

59
00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:05.520
what song from the seventies do people
adopt and play? Celebrate or ymca?

60
00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:10.039
Those are right? Right? Yeah? Wow, yeah, that is

61
00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:14.680
crazy, very good that you said
it that way. And then the last

62
00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.199
one is, uh, the only
person allowed to speak the truth to the

63
00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:28.040
king? What? Uh? He's
funny prophet he juggles. Oh, the

64
00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:31.639
jester. There you go. That's
okay. So a jester was the only

65
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:36.240
person in the king's court that was
allowed to speak truth. So I did

66
00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.240
not know. Yeah, the gester. That's the whole purpose of the jester,

67
00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.319
the gestures to make people laugh.
The gester used comedy to speak the

68
00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.879
truth to the king, to let
the emperor know he has no clothes.

69
00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:53.240
Yeah, yeah, so so he
had complete immunity as opposed to everybody else

70
00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:55.560
in the court. You go tell
the king he's got something between his teeth.

71
00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:59.800
This chance you're gonna get killed.
So only the jester could speak the

72
00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:03.879
truth to the king. I had
no idea, no, zero idea.

73
00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:10.959
Yeah. I thought the court jester
was to entertain the king partly. I

74
00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:13.839
am blown away right now. You
didn't know that, no, okay,

75
00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:17.079
yeah, so anyways, I wasn't
allowed to say court joker, fool clown

76
00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:20.959
or jokes. Yeah. Yeah,
so that was a tough one. Well

77
00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.360
good job. Wow, look at
that. You learned something today. Yeah,

78
00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:29.519
no doubt, Okay, I don't. I don't recognize that as an

79
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:33.279
effective method. Well, they don't
have them anymore, so there's that.

80
00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:39.639
Well, like I like, go
tell the king bad news and make it

81
00:05:39.680 --> 00:05:46.040
funny. It wasn't always funny,
Well you said, through comedy sometimes,

82
00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:50.920
Yeah, it's one of the things
that they did. So maybe perhaps he

83
00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:53.839
would just say, hey, by
the way, you have something between your

84
00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:59.439
teeth. Mhm. Wow. I
would think that'd be an opportunity for something

85
00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:05.279
funny. Wow. I absolutely did
not know any of that, so they

86
00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:11.360
not always was it funny, although
satire was a big part of it.

87
00:06:11.720 --> 00:06:15.319
Sometimes it was a roast oftentimes of
the other politicians. There's a lot of

88
00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:20.600
intellectual engagement. They tended to be
intellectually engaging. So there would be big

89
00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:24.959
thoughts, big ideas, and then
you know, you and I we horse

90
00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.160
around a little bit. But there's
always a bite to the conversation, right,

91
00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:30.120
there's always substance to it. That
was a part of that form.

92
00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.319
And then they could speak the truth
to the king when nobody else could.

93
00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:38.000
Yeah, so well there you go. You know. So we're kind of

94
00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:42.959
like Gesters in all the movies and
all the movies that I've seen with gestures.

95
00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.519
That was never a part of it. Well, movies are totally true,

96
00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:55.040
it's exactly. Movies are historically accurate
on everything. Stop. Would you

97
00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:58.879
not agree? Though? The only
place that's more accurate than movies would be

98
00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:02.160
you know, the internet. Oh
my gosh, Listen, there are movies

99
00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:08.399
that go out of their way to
be painstakingly historically accurate. Sure, and

100
00:07:08.720 --> 00:07:12.319
down to like the Armor, like
Saving Private Ryan, do you ever see

101
00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:15.519
a backstory on that? Yes?
Down to I mean just just down to

102
00:07:15.639 --> 00:07:21.079
They wanted to create that movie to
where anybody who experienced World War two and

103
00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:26.800
you know, the Omaha Beach storm
invasion would have said, that is precisely

104
00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:30.439
how it was. So I saw
on that movie specifically, I saw a

105
00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.360
veteran say the only thing is I
can't smell it. That's what he said.

106
00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:41.360
Wow, wow, Oh that gave
me shivers. But the point is

107
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.079
is that So there are movies where
I've seen it, where they have the

108
00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:47.600
fool, they have the Jester,
and he was more like a fool.

109
00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:53.959
He was more like But never have
I seen anybody in that role of a

110
00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:58.680
gester speaking truth. You know what, the only the only one a siri

111
00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:03.279
who's the only person can speak the
truth to the king. I found this

112
00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.160
on the web. It is often
said that the Jester is the only one

113
00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.160
who speak truth to the king.
So Le'm were going, you know,

114
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.920
the only movie I can think of
is History of the World Part one with

115
00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.680
mel Brooks. No, there's some
accuracy. Yeah, it was a comedy,

116
00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:22.480
but Dom Delauise with Caesar, and
he came in to entertain and he

117
00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.879
actually he spoke a lot of truth
and he got him in trouble with the

118
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:30.079
king because he told a joke that
was that was liking didn't but but but

119
00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.480
but but the whole the whole feeling
in the room got you know, the

120
00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.600
happy feeling got sucked away. And
then they said seize him and he had

121
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.480
to run from the king for Caesar. So, hey, I'm glad we

122
00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:43.279
sorted that out. That was that
must have been a ruvening three or four

123
00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.840
minutes, right there is sorting that
out. Yeah. And then and then

124
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.919
the proof you used to the accuracy
of movies is History the World Part one

125
00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:56.639
Brooks. Anyways, let's see if
we can salvage this today. So Dudteronomy

126
00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:00.360
chapter seven, thank you desire by
the way for this. Yes, that

127
00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:05.360
was a fun one. Deuteronomy is
where we've been. And remember Deuteronomy is

128
00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:07.240
kind of a summary of all the
things that God had taught the people of

129
00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.799
Israel. I'm Mount Sinai and afterwards. Now Moses is coming to the end

130
00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:15.279
of his ministry and end of his
leadership, so he's reminding them of all

131
00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.399
that God had done before. A
lot of the young people have died,

132
00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.600
a lot of the old people,
I mean have died up to this point

133
00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.480
because remember they were going to wander
for forty years and all the people who

134
00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:26.799
refuse to go into the land,
the promised land before we're dying. And

135
00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:31.159
so Moses is coming back. He's
one of the few longtimers left him and

136
00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.559
Joshua and Caleb, and so he's
reminding them these are the things God promised.

137
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.320
And so in Deuteronomy chapter seven,
we're continuing because we read all of

138
00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:46.000
six. Yesterday says when the Lord
your God brings you into the land you

139
00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:48.240
are about to enter and occupy,
he will clear away many nations ahead of

140
00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:52.320
you, the Hittites, Gurgoshites,
Amorites, Canaanites, Parasites, high Bites,

141
00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:56.159
and Jebusites. These seven nations are
greater and more numerous than you.

142
00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:00.360
When the Lord your God hands these
nations over to you, you and you

143
00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.240
conquer them, you must completely destroy
them. Make no treaties with them,

144
00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:05.440
and show them no mercy. You
must not enter marry with them. Do

145
00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.320
not let your daughters and sons marry
their sons and daughters, for they will

146
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:11.919
lead your children away from me to
worship other gods. Then the anger the

147
00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:16.200
Lord will burn against you. He
will quickly destroy you. This is what

148
00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.600
you must do. He must break
down their pagan altars and shatter their sacred

149
00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:22.879
pillars, cut down their a share
of poles, and burn their idols.

150
00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:24.960
For you are a holy people who
belong to the Lord your God. Of

151
00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.679
all the people on the earth,
the Lord your God has chosen you to

152
00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.759
be his own special treasure. The
Lord did not set his heart on you

153
00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.600
and chose you because you were more
numerous than other nations, for you are

154
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.879
the smallest of all nations. Rather, it was simply that the Lord loves

155
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:41.039
you, and he was keeping the
oath he had sworn to your ancestors.

156
00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.080
That is why the Lord rescued you
with such a strong hand from your slavery

157
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.519
and from the oppressive hand of Pharaoh, King of Egypt. Understand therefore,

158
00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.000
that the Lord your God is indeed
God. He is the faithful God who

159
00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.759
keeps his covenant for a thousand generations
and lavishes his unfailing love on those who

160
00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.440
love and obey his commands. But
he does not hesitate to punish and destroy

161
00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.399
those who reject him. Therefore,
you must obey all these commands, decrees,

162
00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:07.679
and regulations I'm giving you today.
He goes on. He says,

163
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:09.960
if you listen to these regulations and
faithful obey them, Lord of God,

164
00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.879
to keep his covenant of unfailing love
with you. Most of God's promises are

165
00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:20.759
if then promises, right, Yeah, and the Old Testament especially because a

166
00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:28.799
lot of times the in my opinion, I think that God had a lot

167
00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:41.200
of immediate consequences executed against disobedience that
I think that Jesus christ sacrifice satisfies today.

168
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:48.600
I think that the like, for
instance, the idea that you know,

169
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:56.240
somebody would disobey God and die on
the spot. I don't think that

170
00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:58.799
although he did it in the New
Testament, didn't he Yes, he did.

171
00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:01.039
He did a New Testament a couple
times. Yeah, when when during

172
00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.000
the before the Bible was completed.
Yeah. Yeah. It seems like to

173
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:11.399
me that the wrath of God if
and then's are still there. I've preached

174
00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.440
the whole thing on this. I
have a whole message where I break these

175
00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:20.159
down. Actually, so I called
it labor and delivery, right, and

176
00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:24.440
so I actually called it that,
and I showed the film on my wife's

177
00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.919
first giving birth experience. But not
what you're thinking, just like me,

178
00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.240
like filming her going to the hospital
and things like that. But the idea

179
00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:35.679
that we would labor and then be
delivered. Right. So it's just that,

180
00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.759
But it's the idea of if and
then promises. But it seems like

181
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.679
to me, in the Old Testament, the consequence of sin that was immediately

182
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:52.240
executed as a form of punishment,
I don't believe that God still punishes us

183
00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:54.919
in the exact same way. And
the reason why, For instance, I

184
00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.679
let's give you hypothetical, see if
you agree with this. I remember when

185
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.000
I was first dating my wife Liz, and we were boyfriend girlfriend, and

186
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:07.240
I had I was supposed to tithe, right, and I was supposed to

187
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:11.960
give ninety dollars and it was like
a big build up of these funds that

188
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:15.559
I had or something like this,
and I was supposed to tithe and I

189
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.600
didn't, And I said, oh, I'm just going to have to kick

190
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:20.320
the can down the field, and
I have to you know, like save

191
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.799
up and give it next time with
the entire intention of still giving right.

192
00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:28.320
So but yet I'm just kicking the
can down the field, not honoring God

193
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.960
with my very first first fruits kind
of thing. So what ends up happening

194
00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:35.440
is we're driving down the road and
then a rock flies up, hits my

195
00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:41.519
windshield and cracks it in a very
massive way. Well, then it ends

196
00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:43.759
up that I have to replace it. And the bill for that windshield back

197
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:48.519
then was exactly ninety dollars. So
my wife makes a comment, which is

198
00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:52.240
which brings up a theological conversation.
And my wife says, and this is

199
00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.200
what she says. She goes,
well, looks like you got punished for

200
00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:00.840
not tithing. And she goes,
God, God is nells out of you

201
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.519
one way or the other. And
I said, whoa, whoa, wait

202
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.480
a minute, you really believe that, and and and and and and she

203
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:15.320
says, yes, now she no
longer believes that. And I believe that,

204
00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.240
uh, God does not punish us
for our sin in that manner through

205
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:28.080
disobedience. I think that there are
forms of punishment that may come. Number

206
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:33.200
one, as a consequence for our
sins. Meaning you know, you know,

207
00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:37.279
if you if you she done your
wife, there's a consequence for your

208
00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:41.000
marriage, that kind of thing.
Right. So there's you know, there's

209
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:45.039
there's sexual diseases and the big sins
versus the little sins. No, no,

210
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:46.320
no, I mean there's practical things
too, right. I mean there's

211
00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.360
there's, uh, in other words, there's earthly consequences. That's what I'm

212
00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.919
trying to say, there's there's earthly
natural consequences, right if you're if you're

213
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.720
angry all the time, you're gonna
lose a bunch of friends, right,

214
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.679
that that kind of thing. So
I believe there's earth consequences. But it

215
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:07.879
seems to me that God's warnings of
punishing against sins direct disobedience. I don't

216
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.600
think that God works that way.
I think that Jesus Christ book the Hebrews

217
00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:18.399
says he does well, but but
but how does that? But but how

218
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.840
does that play out in our lives? If he doesn't rebuke you and reprove

219
00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:24.360
you, then King James says,
you're a bastard and not a son.

220
00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:30.720
Yes, but so so God's active
punishment, yes, for sin, This

221
00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:33.840
is this is a is affirmed in
Hebrews. Yes, but this is a

222
00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:39.159
good debate because at the same time
it talks about the consequence and the payment

223
00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.360
for all of our sins is taken
care of. Yeah, that's eternity.

224
00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:46.799
There has nothing to do with day
to day behavior. So he's still gonna

225
00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.039
That's why it says he's talking about
he's talking about you're not a son if

226
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.720
God doesn't rebuke you well, I
mean, I know that Romans talks about

227
00:15:54.799 --> 00:16:00.480
how He gives us up to reprobate
mind and how how he Christians. So

228
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.960
I'm talking so I understand Hebrews is
only written to Christians. Okay, So

229
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.879
you so you're talking about and so
God, God will spank you. You're

230
00:16:07.879 --> 00:16:11.080
talking about Christians who sins. It
literally says God will spank you. And

231
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:17.720
so it says, yeah, I
think that God spanks us in different ways.

232
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.799
Yes, since so where I think
that Liz there was some truth to

233
00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.159
what Liz said about the ninety dollars. I don't think it was a punishment

234
00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:30.399
for not tithing for ninety dollars.
So the other side of tithing and Malachi

235
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:32.960
is he says, this is test
me in this. See if I don't

236
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:34.480
open the windows of having a portal
blessing on you, that's where we stop.

237
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.679
But he says, and I'll hold
back the devourer for your sake.

238
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.519
Right, So it didn't have to
have been an active I'm going to take

239
00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:45.759
ninety bucks out of you as much
as it is. I'm not going to

240
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:51.120
protect you from that rock today.
Right. That could be the other side

241
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.039
of that that there is there are
consequences, and you know, so you're

242
00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:59.159
walking around without God's favor, You're
walking around without God's protection when you're choosing

243
00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:02.759
to walk into sobe I think a
lot of times on your day to day.

244
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.559
See, this is a this is
a good debate because so I have

245
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:10.759
I have been taught and belief and
let me see if you agree with this

246
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:18.359
statement. So so God's God's God's
view on sin is the same today,

247
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.559
yesterday, and tomorrow. Right,
yesterday, yesterday, today and forever.

248
00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:23.880
Yeah, God is the same.
God is the same. That's right.

249
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.440
So in other words, God feels
the same way about every sin in the

250
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:32.440
Old Testament as he does in the
New Testament. Right, the only difference

251
00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:37.720
is in the Old Testament he would
execute his wrath on people for their sin,

252
00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:42.880
and therefore their sin had to be
treated differently. They had to you

253
00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:48.519
know, pay for their sins,
to sacrifice this and all these different kinds

254
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:53.319
of things. Because sin has been
every sin has been paid for and is

255
00:17:53.400 --> 00:18:00.279
forgiven. It's not I'm not sure
that I believe that it's only for just

256
00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.920
salvation, Jesus's death, brown resurrection, because what I've always been taught and

257
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:08.960
believe still is that even though that
God feels the same way about all of

258
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:15.559
our sin, even after recept Christ. God's reaction to our sin is the

259
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:21.160
thing that changes because because of Jesus
Christ. Yeah, so again, I

260
00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:26.720
think you're you're you're conflating day to
day living the blessing of God, the

261
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.480
favor of God on your everyday life. You're conflating that with sealvific grace.

262
00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.200
There's two different It's two different.
Uh, you just use two words.

263
00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:38.160
I did not understand. Conflating is
mixing up self effic is salvation grace?

264
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:45.240
Right? Okay, okay there so, so I surmise the conflating. So

265
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:51.759
so mixing up those those two ideas
is where it gets confusing. So God

266
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:56.720
does bring justice and and so I
would use justice rather than wrath. But

267
00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.680
he does tell us, both in
the New Testament and Old Testament both to

268
00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:03.680
fear God for sure. Right,
So what's that fear about? Right?

269
00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:07.359
So the fear is there are consequences
to my everyday behaviors. I'm not going

270
00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:11.759
to hell for sinning, but buddy, it's gonna hurt. Life is gonna

271
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:17.200
hurt if I choose to live like
pagans. If I choose to live his

272
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.400
way, Life's not gonna hurt as
bad. Life still hurts because we're still

273
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.839
sinners and we still live in a
broken world, but not as bad.

274
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.000
And so God says, I'll hold
back the devour for your sake. I'm

275
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.960
going to pour out my favor on
you. And God's promises if then promises

276
00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.799
in the Old Testament is the same
as in the New Testament. He continues

277
00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:36.119
to give us this, Hey,
there are consequences to your behavior kind of

278
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:40.480
idea. It's not heaven and Hell. Right, that's resolved, But man,

279
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:44.359
life is gonna hurt a lot more
when I choose not to live his

280
00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:47.960
way. And he tells us that
in Hebrews, and Paul affirms it with

281
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.079
regard to God's anger and wrath in
the Book of Romans. But so,

282
00:19:52.279 --> 00:20:00.799
if I'm to believe and that God
is the same, then then basically I'm

283
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.160
to read this in the Old Testament
where he says, if you do not

284
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.160
do this, then what does he
say? Uh uh? He says He's

285
00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:12.279
going to punish me for not obeying
him. Yes, so so so,

286
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.160
so I believe you think that's the
whole idea of the book he Hebrews.

287
00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:19.680
When it says he literally it says
he punishes you, spanks you. Yeah,

288
00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:27.240
as a Christian remember that, right. But but again that that there's

289
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:32.519
semantics on what does it mean for
him to punish you. Well, he's

290
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.640
not talking about hell because no,
no, I know that. But what

291
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:40.799
I'm saying is is there's a big
difference between God's gonna get you versus like

292
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.799
he's gonna get you like you didn't
do this. He therefore you're on a

293
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:48.279
you're on a zapp list, right
versus uh, yeah, perhaps you don't

294
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.920
have as much favor or blessings in
your life. Yeah, yeah, So

295
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:56.079
I think those are two different things
that you're you're looking at the idea that

296
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:57.799
there are a couple of times in
the Old Testament Cora, for instance,

297
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:02.240
where the ground opens up and swallows
him, right, and these things as

298
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.279
opposed to God's long suffering, the
fact that God is patient. Even in

299
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.519
the Old Testament, God is patient. The Canaanites had existed for a thousand

300
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.000
years. Yeah, right, and
now he's saying I'm done with them,

301
00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.519
right, So you don't think he
let them live for forty more years after

302
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:25.240
he brought consequences on them for sinning
it's not me, but I know,

303
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:29.799
but it's also Old Testament stuff.
So let me let me, let me

304
00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:33.359
see if what you do with this
comment, okay, he says, then

305
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.000
the anger of the Lord will burn
against you if you don't obey what I'm

306
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:40.440
saying to you, and he will
quickly destroy you. Yes. So in

307
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:41.680
other words, like I'm going to
ask you not to marry these people,

308
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.920
so let's just say they do marry
these people, I'm going to destroy you

309
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:52.000
according to what you're saying. As
you're saying, that's us as Christians.

310
00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:53.839
So God gives us commandments. God
says, you know, love me,

311
00:21:53.960 --> 00:21:57.240
do this tithe, obey me,
and if you don't do that, then

312
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:02.799
I will quickly I think think that
the principle translates to Christians. He's not

313
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:10.000
writing to Christians here, so he
is, but he Israelites. So so

314
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:12.960
they were Christians, they were at
Christ, yet they were looking forward to

315
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:18.839
Christ. So in the New Testament, God reaffirms these things, and he

316
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.559
reaffirms the fact that he does punish, and then he punishes with a heavy

317
00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.720
hand, and that if he doesn't
punish you on occasion for your sin,

318
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.799
then and you're not really a son
but how can But how can you qualify

319
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.319
that punishment? So why why can't
punishment? But what I think when you're

320
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.519
being punished, I think you know
you're being punished. I've always viewed punishment

321
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:42.119
in the form of misery, in
the form of internal struggle, emptiness.

322
00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.359
Right, this is coming from a
kid who didn't get punished for going to

323
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:52.039
jail. So so you just think
there is no punishment in life. That's

324
00:22:52.160 --> 00:23:00.920
not true. Your cooking out the
breakfast is true. So I think I

325
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:07.519
think that the consequence for us,
I think that they're I think that having

326
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.279
a healthy This is why even in
the New Testament tells us to fear God,

327
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.359
is because even though I'm not going
to go to Hell, now,

328
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.160
Jesus differentiates. No, Jesus says, hey, don't just fear the person

329
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:19.359
who can kill your body, feel
the person. Fear the person who can

330
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.039
kill your soul, right, send
you to hell. So Jesus is differentiating

331
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:29.200
between everyday life consequences for our life
and punishment from God and Hell. So

332
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:33.960
he separates the two. Paul drives
that separation deeper, the difference between everyday

333
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:38.279
life consequences the punishment will come for
our sin Versus, and and we see

334
00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:42.799
it in uh Anonias and Saphirah.
We see it in others. Right,

335
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:49.519
we see that immediate judgment from God
and then to he's establishing in the very

336
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:53.160
first few chapters of Christianity, I
haven't changed. And then finally, the

337
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.480
author of Hebrews goes, dude,
you're on your way to heaven because you

338
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.559
have a you have a high priest
who's paid the price for you. Right,

339
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.680
he's the king, who is the
high priest who paid the price for

340
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:07.079
you. But that doesn't mean you're
free from having the judgment of God yet

341
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.440
minus, so you should continue to
fear God. I don't disagree with anything

342
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:17.759
you're saying, other than the application
of punishment of sin, because I think

343
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:19.680
all of our listeners that have ever
been punished by God know that they were

344
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:22.400
punished by God. No, no, I have been punished by God.

345
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.680
I feel it. But I'm saying
is it's not out to get to use

346
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:29.839
zapu, and it's certainly not.
If you disobey, I'm going to destroy

347
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.079
you. And so God's punishment,
his reaction towards sin has completely changed.

348
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.799
How do we know this because Jesus
said in John one seventeen. He says,

349
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.480
Moses came to bring you the law, but meaning that's not the case

350
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.400
with Jesus. But I have come
to bring you truth and grace and to

351
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.200
fulfill the law. Jesus also,
well, that's not in that statement.

352
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.359
But yes, right, he comes
to fulfill the law. But fulfillment of

353
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.480
the right. Fulfillment of the law
means, you know, to fulfill the

354
00:24:56.559 --> 00:25:00.599
sacrifices he's talking about. He's the
fulfillment of everything that isn't done. But

355
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.960
now that it's done. So the
last couple of days we've read the ten

356
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.440
commandments, let's just look at those
ten. The fact that Jesus fulfilled the

357
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:11.559
law for adultery, he fulfilled the
law for for think about for murder,

358
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:14.000
does not mean he takes us off
the hook for adult Well, I know,

359
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:15.920
but think about what you're saying,
so on the hook. Fulfilling the

360
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:19.240
law means I'm trying, trying,
trying to do do do, do do

361
00:25:19.960 --> 00:25:23.599
and and but we can't do enough. That's that's that's obed and obey the

362
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.960
law. We we we can can
obey the laws of God. Otherwise he

363
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.079
wouldn't have told us to. But
I'm talking about don't because we're sinners,

364
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.519
I know. But it's a choice, it's not it's not a compulsion.

365
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.559
This is a great debate, by
the way, and I but what I'm

366
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.079
saying is, what I'm saying is
the fulfillment of the law means you no

367
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:42.400
longer have to strive. You no
longer have to striva not for salvation,

368
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:47.480
but for holiness. You do.
I would say that there's there's He tells

369
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:51.839
us all the work at it,
sure in the New Testament. But again

370
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:55.519
we're saying the same things. So
we have to strive holiness even though we

371
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:57.559
don't have to strive for salvation.
The ingredient in this debate, this thing

372
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:02.000
comes from holiness. The ingredient in
this debate is punishment. That's the only

373
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:03.200
thing that matters. Well, I
would say that you're focusing on the wrong

374
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:08.880
thing. His promises are the promises
right, So his promises are blessing.

375
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.519
There's a flip side to every blessing. If then every blessing has Again Again,

376
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.240
I'm not disagreeing with a single comment
you're saying. It's just that your

377
00:26:19.319 --> 00:26:25.079
interpretation of punishment and consequences for sin, I think I'm not the difference in

378
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:29.119
punishment, you are all of the
last three days I focused on the promises,

379
00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:33.680
the blessings. Well, well,
I believe that punishments ignore it isn't

380
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:37.000
doesn't mean I'm just saying if you
want to talk about your view about it,

381
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.160
I'm not saying that we shouldn't.
You're saying focus. What I'm saying

382
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.319
is what's your view on it,
which means you have to focus if you're

383
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:45.759
going to talk about the view.
I'm not saying live my life focusing on

384
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.960
it. I'm just saying, in
this debate, you have to have a

385
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.480
a Here's what I would suggest.
Here's what I suggest. When you sleep

386
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.279
at night, you should have Chris's
view. When you live there in the

387
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.440
day, you should have mine.
Go to bed at night knowing that you're

388
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:04.720
at peace with God, wake up
in the morning working to not go against

389
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.400
God's commands. And by the way, that's a fair way to live.

390
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:11.279
Yes, and under my view,
those are the still the same things.

391
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:14.640
I don't know what your motivation is
under your view to do the right thing.

392
00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:18.559
God threatens us with consequences of our
sin, and that's why he says

393
00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:22.240
fear me. Yeah, right,
And that view as you're not my child.

394
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:26.480
If I don't discipline you regularly.
I view it as fearful of missing

395
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.240
out of the blessings of God.
And I view it as God invites us

396
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.839
to serve him because we want to, which is a much stronger motivation than

397
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.119
we have to. So so in
the Old Testament, it's you don't you

398
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.000
wish that you had a church full
of people who wanted to obey God?

399
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.240
And that is the challenge, which
is why Paul said, and that's what

400
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:48.240
we still continue. That's superior,
but he still has a baseline. Yeah,

401
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.599
there's consequences, I understand, but
he's good and grace graceful. Peter

402
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.960
tells us that God is not slack
concerning his promises, but he's patient.

403
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.880
So it's the sin that God was
patient the Old Testament, I agree.

404
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:07.680
It is the only difference between what
you and I are saying is the punishment

405
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.160
side of things. So the principles, reading all the verses in the Bible,

406
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:14.440
and you're just choosing which ones you
want to listen to, that's not

407
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.519
true at all. That's not true. We've got a lot of bonus material.

408
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:22.200
I believe every verse, in every
concept. The only difference is I

409
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.200
don't believe that God. I just
don't see the God in the Old Testament

410
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.759
being different from the God in the
New Testament. I believe that God himself

411
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.519
is the same. I believe that
God's reaction to us is completely different.

412
00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:36.279
I think the only salvation is the
difference. Yeah, well that's yeah,

413
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:40.039
that's going to be a agree to
this. That's great. Yeah, well

414
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:42.160
that man three and a half extra
minutes. Well, this is the longest

415
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:45.039
we've ever gone by far. All
Right, this is a great debate.

416
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.519
Okay, we will see you next
time on the Bible. Guys,