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This file was generated by Descript 

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Jon: Welcome to the fiscal firehouse,
a podcast dedicated to promoting

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financial literacy to firefighters.

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I'm your cohost, John Beatty,
executive board member of local 1309,

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a lieutenant, and also a certified
financial planner with me, I have the

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other cohost of the fiscal firehouse,
Louie Borrella, executive board member

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of local 1309 ambulance driver, and
want to be financial expert together.

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John and I hope to bring clarity
to the world of personal finance,

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specifically relating to firefighters.

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Firefighting is a difficult job.

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Making sound financial
decisions shouldn't be.

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In today's episode of the Fiscal
Firehouse, John and Louie will discuss

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their favorite holiday traditions.

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John and Louie will also open up the
mail bag and answer some questions

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that have come from our listeners
after the last several months of

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listening to the Fiscal Firehouse.

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Lastly, John and Louie will discuss the
Social Security Fairness Act, which has

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the potential to change firefighters
retirement strategies, specifically

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resulting in the amount of money they'll
be able to collect from Social Security.

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Without further interruption, let's
go to local 1309 Studios and the

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recording of the fiscal firehouse

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welcome back to another episode
of the fiscal firehouse.

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We have a special episode.

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This is our holiday edition.

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Today is December 12th, 2025.

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I'm your co host John Beatty
with me today in a different

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studio, not our local 1309 studio.

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It's getting renovated as we
speak is my partner in crime,

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Louie Burella, LB say hi.

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Louie: Hey, Merry Christmas, good to
see you guys, good to be here, and this

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is a nice upgrade over 1309 Studios.

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That's right, yeah, 1309 Studios,
for those of you that don't know,

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it's our Union Hall, it's located
right next to our Fire Station 8.

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Jon: Studios.

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Louie: yep.

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Yeah,

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Jon: But today we're going to
have a lighthearted episode.

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Louie and I thought we would get
to some of our listener questions.

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We'll get into the mailbag
and answer some of those.

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We're also going to talk about what we do
for the holidays and make this a little

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bit lighthearted and light spirited,
but also there's some breaking news that

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involves retirement planning, specifically
social security benefits and Firefighters

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and police officers and teachers.

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And we'll talk about that here
in just a minute, but we're

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going to start with just a little
episode from the Muppets Christmas

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Louie: Muppets Christmas Carol.

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It's one of the best Christmas movies out
there, and definitely the best rendition

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of a Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens.

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If you guys haven't seen it, especially
with your kids, ah, it's a great one.

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Jon: So here's a little
ditty in honor of Louie.

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We're going to start this.

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Let us deal with the eviction
notices for tomorrow, Mr.

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Cratchit.

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Tomorrow's Christmas, sir.

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Very well.

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You may gift wrap them.

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Let us help you with that, Mr.

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Cratchit.

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Oh, my, there are certainly a lot today.

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We'll get it, we'll get it.

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Okay, okay.

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Here you go.

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Christmas is a very busy time for us, Mr.

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Cratchit.

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People preparing feasts,
giving parties, spending the

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mortgage money on frivolities.

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One might say that December
is the foreclosure season.

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Harvest time for the moneylenders.

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Hey, boys, pack some.

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Come on, mister.

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Come on, come on.

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Do it now.

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If you please, Mr.

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Scrooge.

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It's gotten colder.

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Yeah.

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And the bookkeeping staff would
like to have an extra shovel

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full of coal for the fire.

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We can't do the bookkeeping.

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Yeah, all of our pens
have turned to inksicles.

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Yeah, our assets are frozen.

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How would the bookkeepers like
to be suddenly unemployed?

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Yeah!

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Louie: like Scrooge said, it's the
harvest time for the money lenders.

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The

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Jon: harvest time.

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We

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Louie: don't want that to be your fate.

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And that's why John and I do this podcast.

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That's why we are committed to teaching
you the principles of financial and trying

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to get you guys to financial independence.

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That's what we're passionate about.

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And it's hard, right, John,
during Christmas season, like

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everyone goes over budget.

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You're always, you know, buying gifts
that you necessarily didn't plan

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for and trying to make it special.

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And we get that, we know that it's tough.

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I think during this time we didn't want
to like, Hit you guys with something hard,

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like, let's talk about the pension episode
or how to save even more money than

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you guys are already comfortable saving
because you got Christmas coming up.

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And we, we get it.

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We get that.

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It's tough.

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I know, I'm sure John, you've, you
struggled with it too during Christmas.

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I know that I have.

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So we're trying to keep it more
lighthearted and answer some of the

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questions and concerns that we've
got over the last couple of months.

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And.

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Yeah, hopefully we can get you guys
there so that maybe next year Christmas

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isn't so painful when it comes to
the finances, because I don't know,

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maybe you saved and planned for it
and your finances are a little better.

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If we can just get you to that
point, even I feel like that's a win.

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Jon: Yeah.

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And this is where, if you can be,
you know, diligent and set a budget,

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it just makes things so much easier.

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This is how much we're going to spend
on the kids or on our teachers or

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anyone else that we care about, and
this is what we're going to give.

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And then you just stay within that.

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But every time we try
to do that, we always go

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Louie: Sure.

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It's hard, man.

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It's hard.

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Well, so, and one thing that has helped
us Caitlin and me is that we, we have

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a Christmas line item in our budget.

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We use YNAB as you guys
know, and we save all year.

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We every.

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Every month we put money into our
Christmas fund and that way when it

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gets to December and we're actually
in the process of buying gifts

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and hosting parties and events, we
already have a little slush fund for

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Christmas and that takes the edge off.

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Not going to lie.

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We sometimes still go over that
and we have to rearrange the

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budget and still find money.

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But man, we already have a massive
leg up when we get to December because

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we've been saving for a full year.

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For christmas, so that's my biggest
tip for you know, making the holidays

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less painful is if you can save through
You know save throughout the year for

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christmas you'll thank yourself and it
is much less stressful when you have

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that fun because you've been Slaving a
little bit here and there throughout the

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year I don't know if you guys do the same
thing, but man, it makes a huge difference

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Jon: Yeah, I know we don't.

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We just always have
some money in reserves.

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And don't specifically line item budget,
so to speak for presidents and stuff.

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And every year I know we go over.

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But that's something that's important
to us is gifting and being trying

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to be as generous as possible.

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At least for my family and I know your
family too, we feel really blessed with a

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lot of different things, with our health,
with good jobs, a lot of different things.

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So we try to, you know, pay that
forward as much as possible.

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So sometimes like I, it truly is like,
I always feel better gifting than

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receiving, like I get a lot of joy
out of bringing someone something.

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So that's something
that's important to us.

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And, you know, ultimately in January we
end up paying for it and that's fine, but

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we always, we always have money set aside.

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We don't specifically budget for just Our
presence, but it just comes out of kind

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of our, our savings fund and the credit
cards come in and we'll see what we owe

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Louie: There you go.

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Jon: Mr.

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JP Morgan

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Louie: JP gets his man.

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Jon: that's right.

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That's right.

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But in the spirit of that we
thought it'd be cool to kind of

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talk about Christmas traditions.

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So we definitely have some of ours here
at the Beatty household, but I'm curious,

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Louis, starting with the Barella family,

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Louie: Sure.

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Tell

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Jon: of your Christmas traditions
that you want to share with the, with

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the listeners, with the audience?

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Louie: Yeah.

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It's we love Christmas.

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We get a lot of joy out of it and we
do a lot of family stuff together.

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So the holiday season is always busy
for us starting at Thanksgiving,

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going through the new year.

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One of the things that we do that my
family has been doing for, you know,

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47 years now is we do something called
the tamale fest and christmas sing

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along and that's actually this weekend.

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So tomorrow we'll be making tamales at
my house and our we'll have some family

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members that come over We call them
the tamale makers and we will just make

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tamales all morning long I don't know
if you guys have ever made tamales,

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but it is a an intensive process.

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It's not something Yeah.

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Yeah I when I tell people guys at the fire
station that we do this they're always

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like oh man you should make tamales here
like let's do that here and i'm like no

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let's not do that here the last thing
we need to do is try to roll out masa

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and steam tamales and get calls and get
interrupted it is it is intensive i love

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tamales they're so good i could eat them
all year long but it's not worth making

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at the fire station that being said it
is worth making at our house when we are

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getting ready for this big tradition.

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So yeah, tomorrow we'll
make a bunch of tamales.

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I think last year we
made about 120 tamales,

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Jon: Are you going to be a tamale
maker, or are you going to be a kid

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Louie: a, I'm a, I like to make tamales.

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Yeah.

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But it's, it's hard.

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Cause I, I'm, I'm really like the gopher.

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So I'll like take the stuff that's
on the stove and I'll and I'll take

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it to the different tamale makers.

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go through the assembly line and
yeah, that's try to, that's what I do.

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But now with three little kids, like
I'm also the wrangler of children.

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So, I don't really get a lot of tamales
made myself, but I help the actual

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real tamale makers make the tamales.

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So anyway, we do that.

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And then on Saturday we go over to
my aunt and uncle's house and we

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just have this huge feast, tons of
tamales, green chili casseroles.

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All the family members bring different
things and then we will eat tamales, eat

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good food, and sing Christmas carols.

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So my uncle plays the piano.

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He's been doing that for every year,
47 years, he's been playing the

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piano and he can sight read music.

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So it's really cool.

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He could just jump right
into it and take requests.

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Jon: take requests.

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I'm so jealous.

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So jealous of anyone that is
musically inclined or talented.

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I had zero of that ability.

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So I'm always in awe of people that
can either sing or play an instrument.

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It really is a cool gift and
a skill that I do not possess.

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Louie: it's wonderful
for us when he retires.

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I hope he doesn't retire for years but
when he retires, I don't know what we're

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gonna do we're gonna have to I don't know
hire a musician or maybe my cousin gram

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who plays the guitar We'll switch it to
guitar christmas carols instead of piano.

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I don't know.

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Jon: That's super

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Louie: Yeah, but it's cool.

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So the singing is bad, but the food is
good and it's the it's the barella You

00:10:04.690 --> 00:10:06.040
Tamale Fest and Christmas sing along.

00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:08.250
That's the biggest tradition that we do.

00:10:08.250 --> 00:10:11.410
We do some other little smaller family
things with just my immediate family.

00:10:11.410 --> 00:10:15.310
And that's like, we, we do this big
spread for Christmas Eve and we'll

00:10:15.590 --> 00:10:20.850
have a bunch of cheeses and meats and
crackers and cookies and desserts.

00:10:20.850 --> 00:10:25.360
And we just kind of all camp out by
our little fireplace and read Christmas

00:10:25.370 --> 00:10:26.730
stories and watch Christmas movies.

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And that's always on Christmas Eve.

00:10:28.430 --> 00:10:31.155
And then depending on our work
schedule, you know, with the, Sometimes

00:10:31.155 --> 00:10:34.785
we're working Christmas or Eve or
Christmas Day or both or vice versa.

00:10:34.785 --> 00:10:38.135
We'll kind of figure it out, but
we always do homemade spaghetti.

00:10:38.135 --> 00:10:38.485
Caitlin

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Jon: makes, oh,

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Louie: good homemade
spaghetti from scratch.

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She makes the

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Jon: pasta

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Louie: makes the pasta, makes
the sauce and the meat sauce.

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And it's really, really good.

00:10:47.645 --> 00:10:50.075
And so that's kind of like a
special little treat that we do

00:10:50.315 --> 00:10:51.835
every Christmas or Christmas Eve,

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Jon: Oh man, I love that.

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It's a great tradition.

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Louie: Those are great, man.

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We love it.

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So what about you?

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What, what do the Bates do?

00:10:57.909 --> 00:11:01.900
Jon: Bates, we, you know, ever since
I've met my wife, Katie, we we've

00:11:01.900 --> 00:11:03.800
changed some of us and we've inherited.

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I've inherited some of her
family's the Gallagher tradition.

00:11:07.390 --> 00:11:11.020
One of our biggest traditions ever since
Katie and I first started getting together

00:11:11.020 --> 00:11:12.900
and it was her family's tradition.

00:11:12.920 --> 00:11:17.960
So now it's our family's tradition is on
Christmas Eve, we do the Chinese food.

00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:20.290
Louie: Oh yeah, that's cool.

00:11:20.310 --> 00:11:20.840
Jon: it reminds

00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.490
Louie: of Christmas Eve or Christmas
day, Christmas Eve, Christmas Eve,

00:11:23.550 --> 00:11:23.880
Jon: Yep.

00:11:23.900 --> 00:11:26.300
Christmas Eve we go and get Chinese food.

00:11:26.300 --> 00:11:30.250
So lately we've been getting it from
Imperial Garden over there on Broadway.

00:11:30.350 --> 00:11:31.650
Pretty tasty little treat.

00:11:31.890 --> 00:11:33.730
And that's something that
she always grew up with.

00:11:33.770 --> 00:11:34.180
I don't know.

00:11:34.180 --> 00:11:38.370
You've probably watched A Christmas Story,
you know, so that reminds me a lot of, and

00:11:38.370 --> 00:11:41.470
I don't know if that's where they stole
it from or not, but she said ever since

00:11:41.470 --> 00:11:42.920
she was little, she always remembered.

00:11:42.920 --> 00:11:46.360
She grew up in Fort Collins and there
was a little Chinese restaurant there.

00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:50.420
So always on Christmas Eve, they would
go there and get themselves some takeout

00:11:50.420 --> 00:11:53.730
Chinese So that was one of the first
things I remember when I first started

00:11:53.740 --> 00:11:58.000
dating my wife is we went up to Fort
Collins We went up with her family and we

00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.470
actually went out for dinner that night
But it was at the same Chinese restaurant

00:12:01.470 --> 00:12:02.840
that they'd been going to forever.

00:12:02.870 --> 00:12:07.545
So that was pretty cool So we'll typically
have most of my family here And then my

00:12:07.545 --> 00:12:10.815
dad and my sister and some of our other
relatives that are close by will all

00:12:10.815 --> 00:12:13.015
come here And same thing afterwards.

00:12:13.015 --> 00:12:17.595
We'll typically read some Christmas
stories and just let the kids play around

00:12:17.595 --> 00:12:22.015
and it's interesting like Having kids
definitely changes christmas, you know

00:12:22.015 --> 00:12:26.145
for all for the better Right the thought
of what christmas is and the sparkle in

00:12:26.145 --> 00:12:29.095
their eyes and when they jump as fast as
they can They wake up at three o'clock

00:12:29.095 --> 00:12:33.945
in the morning wanting to see if if
santa has come So that's one of the the

00:12:33.945 --> 00:12:38.940
traditions that we have and then One of my
traditions that I remember growing up as

00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:43.040
a kid is my mom was a really good baker,
and she loved to make Christmas cookies.

00:12:43.270 --> 00:12:46.110
So, you know, two or three weeks
before Christmas, she would start

00:12:46.110 --> 00:12:50.120
baking, and she had six to seven
different styles of cookies, Christmas

00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:51.280
cookies, that she would make.

00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:52.575
She'd make this delicious,
delicious cookie.

00:12:52.855 --> 00:12:53.115
Fudge.

00:12:53.325 --> 00:12:56.755
So every weekend I can remember for
two to three weeks before Christmas,

00:12:56.755 --> 00:13:01.805
you'd just be baking away, making dozens
upon dozens of cookies and I would

00:13:01.805 --> 00:13:03.525
help frost them and everything else.

00:13:03.525 --> 00:13:03.575
And

00:13:03.805 --> 00:13:05.785
Louie: Oh, so it was not just
like put a little sprinkles on it.

00:13:05.785 --> 00:13:07.915
You guys were frosting 'em
and decorating them and

00:13:08.020 --> 00:13:08.780
Jon: I'm decorating.

00:13:08.780 --> 00:13:14.070
I'm sprinkles, chocolates, making
caramels fudge the whole nine yards.

00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.400
So that's something since my mom
passed away, you know, 10 years ago.

00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:19.350
That's something that
we've tried to continue on.

00:13:19.350 --> 00:13:21.740
And luckily Katie is
the baker of the family.

00:13:21.950 --> 00:13:26.380
And she does a wonderful job and we always
think of honoring my mom in that capacity.

00:13:26.380 --> 00:13:30.630
So that's something that we've always done
and something that is new to our family.

00:13:31.575 --> 00:13:36.845
Chippy, the Christmas elf has bestowed
our family over the last couple of years

00:13:36.855 --> 00:13:41.645
where he shows up sometime around the
first week of December and he diligently

00:13:41.645 --> 00:13:45.535
watches over our children to make sure
that they are behaving appropriately

00:13:45.805 --> 00:13:51.035
because he is then going to report back
to Santa on Christmas Eve and he is

00:13:51.035 --> 00:13:52.625
listening, always in the background.

00:13:52.625 --> 00:13:54.635
So he, even if you don't
have a Christmas list.

00:13:54.735 --> 00:13:58.505
that you had sent to Santa, he
just knows he's always listening.

00:13:58.825 --> 00:14:01.435
And then he'll bring that
message back to Santa.

00:14:01.455 --> 00:14:05.615
And the thing with the Christmas elf
and ours Chippy is you can't touch him.

00:14:05.975 --> 00:14:08.265
If you touch him, he loses his magic.

00:14:08.485 --> 00:14:10.775
So every, every morning he graces

00:14:10.785 --> 00:14:11.275
Louie: that good?

00:14:11.275 --> 00:14:13.395
Cause then if they touch him,
he can't report back to Santa.

00:14:13.395 --> 00:14:13.945
Isn't that a good?

00:14:13.945 --> 00:14:14.380
It

00:14:14.565 --> 00:14:18.235
Jon: it could be good or bad depending
on how your child or children

00:14:18.245 --> 00:14:22.085
have behaved over the, over those
course of that month or whatnot.

00:14:22.405 --> 00:14:26.295
But it's something he's very
magical and he changes his location

00:14:26.315 --> 00:14:27.665
every morning, at least for us.

00:14:27.735 --> 00:14:31.865
So his magic and where he moves about
the house must change overnight.

00:14:31.895 --> 00:14:32.445
So,

00:14:32.590 --> 00:14:34.540
Louie: does he mess things
up or like, make messes?

00:14:34.540 --> 00:14:35.710
Because isn't that part of the thing?

00:14:36.090 --> 00:14:38.860
Jon: Chippy has he's got
some interesting behaviors.

00:14:38.920 --> 00:14:41.920
I mean, sometimes he's just
watching, but other times he

00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:44.320
has what did he do earlier on?

00:14:44.330 --> 00:14:48.730
He got himself in toilet paper, and then
he managed to get himself down the stairs.

00:14:48.990 --> 00:14:52.130
So we found him at the base of the
stairs just covered in toilet paper.

00:14:52.530 --> 00:14:56.400
Chippy has done magic for us,
where he's made different art.

00:14:56.560 --> 00:14:59.170
He's left us some presents in the toilet.

00:14:59.380 --> 00:15:00.930
Chippy's a little mischievous.

00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:02.570
I think he's got a
little B Shifter in him.

00:15:02.710 --> 00:15:06.190
I think our, at least our Christmas
elf, you know, it's only fair me

00:15:06.190 --> 00:15:10.013
being the B Shift rep that Chippy,
I think is a honorary B Shifter.

00:15:10.344 --> 00:15:11.411
Louie: B Shift group

00:15:11.431 --> 00:15:16.200
Jon: he's always getting in trouble and
making, and making more work for me.

00:15:16.250 --> 00:15:18.770
But I love Chippy and I
love what he stands for.

00:15:18.770 --> 00:15:21.620
This is something that I
don't ever remember me having

00:15:21.620 --> 00:15:22.710
a Christmas elf growing up.

00:15:22.710 --> 00:15:24.290
So I think it's kind of a newer tradition.

00:15:24.290 --> 00:15:26.340
He must just know that our
kids need a little bit more.

00:15:26.800 --> 00:15:27.110
Louie: else

00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:28.790
Jon: A little more Christmas magic.

00:15:29.030 --> 00:15:32.130
So it is cool to see them wake up
every morning and always looking,

00:15:32.310 --> 00:15:32.730
Louie: hunting

00:15:32.920 --> 00:15:35.380
Jon: looking for for Chippy
to see if he's still here, if

00:15:35.380 --> 00:15:36.840
he's reported back to Santa.

00:15:36.890 --> 00:15:40.370
So those are some of our some
of our Christmas traditions.

00:15:40.370 --> 00:15:43.780
And you know, the biggest thing for me
is carrying on those traditions, but just

00:15:43.790 --> 00:15:46.430
being surrounded by friends and family.

00:15:46.530 --> 00:15:48.040
You know, there's just
nothing better for it.

00:15:48.140 --> 00:15:51.850
Like I said, I know both of us feel
very fortunate and grateful for all

00:15:51.850 --> 00:15:53.570
the blessings that we have received.

00:15:53.570 --> 00:15:58.500
So, we're just trying to carry forth that
spirit of what Christmas is all about.

00:15:58.500 --> 00:16:01.500
it's cool Every every family's got their
own unique traditions, which I think is

00:16:01.520 --> 00:16:05.940
pretty special So whether it's christmas
or hanukkah or any other celebrations that

00:16:05.940 --> 00:16:09.620
you might have louis and I wish you the
best for you guys and your families this

00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:12.300
this holiday season and moving into 2025 I

00:16:12.345 --> 00:16:12.635
Louie: Yep.

00:16:12.695 --> 00:16:15.135
I think it's kind of cool even
kind of bringing in some of the

00:16:15.135 --> 00:16:17.135
firehouse traditions and stuff.

00:16:17.170 --> 00:16:17.490
Jon: hundred

00:16:17.715 --> 00:16:21.765
Louie: obviously we're, some of us are
working during Thanksgiving and Christmas

00:16:21.765 --> 00:16:25.675
and new years, and a lot of stations
really make it like a family event.

00:16:25.695 --> 00:16:28.565
We at station three on a shift,
we were working this year.

00:16:28.565 --> 00:16:32.625
So we had this big old Thanksgiving dinner
at at our station and it was wonderful.

00:16:32.635 --> 00:16:34.325
Honestly, it was one of the
best Thanksgiving that I've had.

00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:39.830
We had families over read, smoked some,
some turkey breast and we made a ham

00:16:39.860 --> 00:16:41.700
and we just had a bunch of good food.

00:16:41.710 --> 00:16:45.320
The families brought different you
know, desserts and side dishes.

00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:46.390
And we just had a great time.

00:16:46.390 --> 00:16:46.715
It was wonderful.

00:16:46.715 --> 00:16:47.175
The kids loved it.

00:16:47.335 --> 00:16:51.865
The kids love the fire truck and
got to kind of run around the

00:16:51.865 --> 00:16:54.845
station and run through the bay
and they just had a great time.

00:16:54.845 --> 00:16:57.425
So it was, it's kind of cool to
bring that into and have those,

00:16:57.885 --> 00:17:01.075
I don't know, traditions and
family time at the station too.

00:17:01.075 --> 00:17:04.015
So, for those of you that are
working during this holiday season

00:17:04.015 --> 00:17:06.005
on any one of the shifts thank you.

00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:09.300
It's, we know that it's sometimes hard
being away from your family, but sometimes

00:17:09.300 --> 00:17:14.060
it's also fun to get to bring the families
to the station and have them enjoy

00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:19.770
that kind of a tradition of, of mom or
dad working while at the fire station.

00:17:19.780 --> 00:17:20.570
It's kind of cool, too.

00:17:20.685 --> 00:17:20.915
Jon: Yeah.

00:17:20.915 --> 00:17:21.725
Well said Louie.

00:17:21.855 --> 00:17:25.045
We definitely think about you guys and
gals that are out there working when

00:17:25.045 --> 00:17:27.945
everyone else is at home with their
families, but families just come to you.

00:17:27.945 --> 00:17:31.065
So it's Christmas and the holidays
is all about where you're at, right?

00:17:31.095 --> 00:17:31.205
Yeah.

00:17:31.305 --> 00:17:33.165
Louie: And and a extra special shout out.

00:17:33.235 --> 00:17:35.935
I don't, I don't know if they're
listening, but to the fleet guys, man,

00:17:36.125 --> 00:17:37.815
best, best fleet guys in the state.

00:17:37.825 --> 00:17:38.765
Those guys are awesome.

00:17:38.775 --> 00:17:41.625
And I know that they're working
hard even during the holidays too.

00:17:41.625 --> 00:17:45.635
So, we are hard on our rigs
and those guys make sure that

00:17:45.635 --> 00:17:46.865
we're always in a good spot.

00:17:46.865 --> 00:17:48.645
So, special shout out to.

00:17:48.820 --> 00:17:51.070
To the fleet guys, we're glad to have you.

00:17:51.110 --> 00:17:54.360
You guys are a huge blessing
for, for our department and yeah.

00:17:54.560 --> 00:17:55.470
Thank you guys for what you do.

00:17:55.595 --> 00:17:56.615
Jon: Yeah, absolutely.

00:17:56.625 --> 00:17:57.375
So let's get out.

00:17:57.385 --> 00:17:59.495
We're going to switch gears a
little bit and then head over

00:17:59.495 --> 00:18:01.315
to the mailbag, if you will.

00:18:01.315 --> 00:18:03.865
And these are just some of the
questions that we have received.

00:18:04.165 --> 00:18:08.555
So once again obviously if you see
Louie and I feel free to just talk

00:18:08.555 --> 00:18:11.575
to us about these questions and we'll
make sure that we put it on the docket.

00:18:11.575 --> 00:18:14.645
And if you don't see Louie and I,
and you want to question ask, there's

00:18:14.645 --> 00:18:17.195
always the askfiscalfirehouse at Gmail.

00:18:17.475 --> 00:18:18.945
Email address to send questions.

00:18:18.945 --> 00:18:20.295
We got the Instagram page

00:18:20.465 --> 00:18:24.235
Louie: Yep at fiscal firehouse is our
handle on instagram so you guys can

00:18:24.235 --> 00:18:27.405
follow us there We'll be using that
to post updates when new episodes

00:18:27.405 --> 00:18:31.105
drop or whatever but you can also send
like a direct message on instagram

00:18:31.135 --> 00:18:34.795
if you want to If you have a question
about something you heard or a topic

00:18:34.795 --> 00:18:38.705
you want us to discuss and we don't
Obviously we don't do it every episode.

00:18:38.705 --> 00:18:40.845
We're not like, Oh,
let's go to the mailbag.

00:18:40.855 --> 00:18:43.745
But every few episodes, hopefully
we'll be able to answer some questions.

00:18:43.745 --> 00:18:46.285
So because this is our kind of end of year

00:18:46.510 --> 00:18:47.860
Jon: Holiday smorgasbord

00:18:47.875 --> 00:18:50.885
Louie: yeah, we'll, we'll answer some
questions that you guys have some

00:18:50.885 --> 00:18:52.015
of the concerns that you guys have.

00:18:52.390 --> 00:18:55.350
Jon: So this one is buying pension years.

00:18:55.390 --> 00:18:56.030
Is it a good idea?

00:18:56.675 --> 00:19:00.305
Would I be better served to invest the
money I would use to buy pension years

00:19:00.635 --> 00:19:04.925
or save in like a 401a or my 457 plan?

00:19:05.205 --> 00:19:06.675
So great question, Louis.

00:19:06.675 --> 00:19:09.795
I know, especially for our newer
folks coming on, you probably

00:19:09.795 --> 00:19:10.865
get asked this question a

00:19:11.030 --> 00:19:11.870
Louie: quite a bit actually.

00:19:11.945 --> 00:19:12.585
Jon: quite a bit.

00:19:12.835 --> 00:19:17.211
There's a lot of just mystique around
this and, you know, it sounds like a I

00:19:17.211 --> 00:19:20.931
mean, I'm beating a dead horse here, but
it totally depends on your situation.

00:19:21.201 --> 00:19:24.621
so we'll talk about just some of the
intricacies of this and we're going

00:19:24.621 --> 00:19:27.251
to have a pension episode onto itself.

00:19:27.551 --> 00:19:30.451
So we'll can get a little bit more in
depth about some of these questions

00:19:30.451 --> 00:19:31.831
or if there's some more detail.

00:19:32.106 --> 00:19:35.636
We can get into it, but it really,
you know, first and foremost it really

00:19:35.636 --> 00:19:37.736
depends on the pension plan to begin with.

00:19:37.736 --> 00:19:39.246
I'm really proud and happy.

00:19:39.286 --> 00:19:43.266
I've gotten a lot of feedback that our
messaging has gone beyond just West metro.

00:19:43.536 --> 00:19:46.436
There's now other local
departments that are listening.

00:19:46.466 --> 00:19:48.646
I know there's some police
departments that I've gotten on

00:19:48.711 --> 00:19:49.291
Louie: Nice.

00:19:49.331 --> 00:19:49.531
Very

00:19:49.616 --> 00:19:51.866
Jon: all sorts of different
people that are listening to this.

00:19:51.876 --> 00:19:54.536
So I think, when we talk about some
of these things, we just got to

00:19:54.546 --> 00:19:56.346
be careful about how we phrase it.

00:19:56.651 --> 00:19:59.461
And making sure that some people aren't
getting confused So you always have

00:19:59.461 --> 00:20:03.551
to go back to your pension plan Making
sure first and foremost that you're

00:20:03.551 --> 00:20:07.651
in a defined benefit pension plan And
then whether or not you can buy service

00:20:07.651 --> 00:20:11.051
years most of them do to my knowledge
But when we're talking about this

00:20:11.051 --> 00:20:14.511
one specifically This is the one that
louis and I are the most intimately

00:20:14.511 --> 00:20:19.341
familiar with and that's our pension
plan So that's the fppa pension plan.

00:20:19.341 --> 00:20:22.881
So the police and firefighters in
the state of colorado the majority of

00:20:22.881 --> 00:20:25.051
them You Pay into this pension plan.

00:20:25.051 --> 00:20:28.151
So this is the one that we're going to
be referencing when we talk about buying

00:20:28.161 --> 00:20:31.931
pension years So if you're not enrolled
in that specific plan Just get back to

00:20:31.931 --> 00:20:33.801
your plan provider the plan documents,

00:20:33.941 --> 00:20:38.271
So we'll talk about fppa in this
circumstance So first and foremost,

00:20:38.271 --> 00:20:41.711
I think you have to figure out is
whether or not you qualify, right?

00:20:41.921 --> 00:20:44.171
So who can buy their years?

00:20:44.361 --> 00:20:46.831
So there's different, once
again, this is for FPPA.

00:20:47.021 --> 00:20:49.161
So there's different years
in which you can buy.

00:20:49.171 --> 00:20:53.311
You can either buy your military years,
you can buy public service years, or

00:20:53.311 --> 00:20:55.151
you can buy private service years.

00:20:55.151 --> 00:20:57.961
So that's bucketed into those
three different classifications.

00:20:57.961 --> 00:20:58.811
as far as

00:20:58.861 --> 00:21:03.371
Fppa is concerned is you have to wait
at least one year if you want to buy

00:21:03.401 --> 00:21:06.991
any public service years So you have
to wait for that first year that you're

00:21:06.991 --> 00:21:11.041
enrolled in the plan Before you can
actually go ahead and buy those years

00:21:11.231 --> 00:21:14.121
and they're basically going to take
your highest rate So whatever your

00:21:14.121 --> 00:21:18.721
highest salary earning years are That
is what they're going to use a factor.

00:21:18.891 --> 00:21:21.031
They're going to figure out how
old you are, how long you're

00:21:21.041 --> 00:21:22.031
going to pay into the plan.

00:21:22.241 --> 00:21:24.321
And then they're going to come
up with a number as far as

00:21:24.321 --> 00:21:25.571
what that's going to cost you.

00:21:25.641 --> 00:21:28.411
So you have to wait at least
a year if you want to buy any

00:21:28.411 --> 00:21:30.301
of your public service time.

00:21:30.521 --> 00:21:33.651
And then if you want to use
Non public service time.

00:21:33.841 --> 00:21:37.411
So if you have something that's
like private time is you have to

00:21:37.411 --> 00:21:40.861
wait up to five years in order
for you to purchase that time.

00:21:40.861 --> 00:21:45.121
So obviously after five years, at
least speaking for the West Metro

00:21:45.351 --> 00:21:48.071
members, you're going to be first
grade, you'll be a paramedic.

00:21:48.071 --> 00:21:50.161
So those are going to be
some higher salary years

00:21:50.186 --> 00:21:50.746
Louie: better money

00:21:50.861 --> 00:21:51.731
Jon: than that first year.

00:21:51.841 --> 00:21:54.681
So that's probably one of the
things, if I was talking to someone

00:21:54.681 --> 00:21:57.971
one on one as I want to ask them,
what years are they trying to buy?

00:21:58.871 --> 00:22:02.481
Public is a little better deal because
you can basically get in at a lower

00:22:02.481 --> 00:22:06.281
cost versus private because you got
to wait for that five year capture.

00:22:06.281 --> 00:22:09.471
So that's something to definitely
think about and keep in mind.

00:22:09.631 --> 00:22:13.601
And then there also, you are limited
on how many years you can buy.

00:22:13.991 --> 00:22:17.891
So depending on whether it's private,
military, or public, it really depends.

00:22:17.891 --> 00:22:21.421
So as far as FPPA is concerned,
you can buy up to five years.

00:22:21.436 --> 00:22:26.806
You can buy up to five years
of private employment service.

00:22:26.986 --> 00:22:29.586
And basically public
employment is unlimited.

00:22:29.606 --> 00:22:31.626
You can buy as many years as you want.

00:22:31.626 --> 00:22:35.146
So most of the time when people
are purchasing these, they use

00:22:35.146 --> 00:22:36.756
their old retirement monies.

00:22:36.986 --> 00:22:41.566
So if they had like a 401A or 401k plan,
that's the money that they're using.

00:22:41.736 --> 00:22:41.756
me.

00:22:41.841 --> 00:22:44.201
They'll roll that money in to
purchase these service credits.

00:22:44.201 --> 00:22:45.521
So that's kind of how it's done.

00:22:45.761 --> 00:22:49.261
But really this is one of those things
that you really want to think, you

00:22:49.261 --> 00:22:53.471
know, on an individual basis, this is
not great, just general information.

00:22:53.681 --> 00:22:55.301
This is something that
you want to tailor to.

00:22:55.301 --> 00:22:59.261
But if you were to ask me just like pin
me, is it a good idea or not a good idea?

00:22:59.261 --> 00:23:02.701
I would say that for the majority of
people, it's probably not a good idea.

00:23:03.011 --> 00:23:05.511
And there's a couple of reasons,
and I'll let you chime in for your

00:23:05.511 --> 00:23:06.951
thoughts on this one as well, Louie.

00:23:06.951 --> 00:23:09.931
But first and foremost is,
those, there's no guarantees

00:23:09.931 --> 00:23:11.781
with our job and our employment.

00:23:11.981 --> 00:23:15.911
So if you have this pool of money and
it's retirement money set aside and then

00:23:15.911 --> 00:23:19.081
something happens, or maybe you just
realize after a couple of years that the

00:23:19.091 --> 00:23:22.031
fire department or the police department
or something is not for you and you've

00:23:22.041 --> 00:23:25.041
bought those years, you're You're kind
of sunk, you know, you've already pot

00:23:25.051 --> 00:23:29.481
committed, so to speak, all of that money
is now port towards years of service.

00:23:29.821 --> 00:23:33.071
And honestly, you know, the defined
benefit, I love it and it's a great

00:23:33.071 --> 00:23:38.281
plan, but it really is designed for
you to be able to put in, you know, 20,

00:23:38.281 --> 00:23:41.811
25, 30 plus years for it to be able to,
make a little bit more financial sense.

00:23:42.111 --> 00:23:45.681
We have members that are leaving after a
couple of years or five years or 10 years,

00:23:45.951 --> 00:23:50.211
and it's just not a great plan if you only
can put that many years of service in.

00:23:50.211 --> 00:23:54.801
So I always like to diversify some
of my monies and this to me is

00:23:54.801 --> 00:23:58.111
just putting a little bit too many
of eggs in one specific basket.

00:23:58.421 --> 00:24:01.271
And I think it's probably just
better serve to keep that, you

00:24:01.271 --> 00:24:03.931
know, 401 a money or four 57 money.

00:24:04.046 --> 00:24:08.666
Aside and just let that money grow
or you could roll it into another 457

00:24:08.676 --> 00:24:12.306
plan something like that But keep that
money aside Don't you know use a bunch

00:24:12.306 --> 00:24:15.976
of savings if you got you know a nice
little brokerage account or you got an

00:24:15.986 --> 00:24:19.786
Inheritance and you get 100 or 200 grand
like I think that's probably better off

00:24:19.786 --> 00:24:23.556
just as and there's different investments
that you could use That just makes it a

00:24:23.646 --> 00:24:27.086
little bit more portable That's really the
word i'm looking for The pension plan is

00:24:27.086 --> 00:24:29.026
not portable for the majority of people.

00:24:29.196 --> 00:24:30.996
You don't you don't want to try to do that

00:24:31.186 --> 00:24:34.281
Louie: And yeah, so I kind of have
similar thoughts to John on that.

00:24:34.311 --> 00:24:36.151
And to reiterate, we love the pension.

00:24:36.161 --> 00:24:36.641
This is great.

00:24:36.651 --> 00:24:39.861
This is the cornerstone
of our retirement plan.

00:24:40.161 --> 00:24:43.561
And that's true for most firefighters
that are probably listening to

00:24:43.561 --> 00:24:45.751
this, so we really like the pension.

00:24:46.001 --> 00:24:46.201
But.

00:24:46.546 --> 00:24:49.486
You know, John and I also, as you
guys know, we like index funds.

00:24:49.496 --> 00:24:53.486
And the reason why we like index
funds is because they diversify your

00:24:53.526 --> 00:24:58.716
money over hundreds or thousands
of, of companies in the same way.

00:24:59.136 --> 00:25:03.676
Diversifying your retirement
income or your retirement

00:25:03.916 --> 00:25:05.426
investments is also important.

00:25:05.446 --> 00:25:09.176
So you have the pension, which
you automatically pay into every.

00:25:10.146 --> 00:25:11.726
and the department pays into every month.

00:25:12.146 --> 00:25:15.926
And so we think that's good,
but having another leg of

00:25:15.926 --> 00:25:17.296
retirement is also important.

00:25:17.316 --> 00:25:23.556
And like we mentioned in our last episode,
the four 57 is a great way to save money

00:25:23.936 --> 00:25:27.426
in addition to the pension so that you can
supplement the pension when you retire.

00:25:27.656 --> 00:25:31.136
So I always tell people, you
know, instead of buying service

00:25:31.156 --> 00:25:36.416
credit through for the pension, I
would like to see people save in.

00:25:37.016 --> 00:25:42.126
a 457 and an IRA and, you know,
between those two investment

00:25:42.126 --> 00:25:46.316
vehicles, retirement vehicles,
you can save over 30, 000 in that.

00:25:46.686 --> 00:25:52.206
That is an awesome way to have your
own set of money that is portable.

00:25:52.206 --> 00:25:56.916
You can take it, you can take it with
you if you leave early, or if you decide

00:25:56.916 --> 00:26:00.446
that the, that the fire service is not
for you, you can take that anywhere.

00:26:00.676 --> 00:26:07.236
In general, and like John said, it's,
it's unique upon your, your circumstances,

00:26:07.406 --> 00:26:10.566
but in general, I would say if you're
looking to save for retirement.

00:26:11.261 --> 00:26:14.971
And you're choosing between buying
service credit or investing in like a

00:26:14.991 --> 00:26:19.801
457 or an IRA I would default to that
you might have circumstances that make

00:26:19.801 --> 00:26:23.411
it more beneficial to buy service credit
But in general, I think if you got a

00:26:23.411 --> 00:26:27.761
bunch of money that you want to find a
home for For your retirement savings.

00:26:28.331 --> 00:26:30.551
I think you should do it in a 457 or IRA.

00:26:30.701 --> 00:26:31.881
Yeah broad strokes

00:26:32.236 --> 00:26:32.646
Jon: strokes.

00:26:32.686 --> 00:26:36.836
If you came to me and said, listen,
John and Louie, I'm 22 years old.

00:26:36.926 --> 00:26:38.826
I just spent four years in the military.

00:26:39.126 --> 00:26:40.976
I've got this military time built up.

00:26:41.026 --> 00:26:43.406
I know that the fire service
is what I want to do.

00:26:43.526 --> 00:26:46.286
And I know I want to be a chief
officer in the fire service.

00:26:46.666 --> 00:26:46.986
Right.

00:26:47.076 --> 00:26:49.486
That to me would be more
convincing of like, okay, cool.

00:26:49.486 --> 00:26:50.836
You have got a solid plan.

00:26:50.836 --> 00:26:52.786
Like this is a goal
you're working towards.

00:26:53.551 --> 00:26:53.911
Okay.

00:26:53.981 --> 00:26:55.311
I could, I could buy off on that.

00:26:55.321 --> 00:26:59.741
That to me makes sense because once again,
as far as how the pension is calculated,

00:27:00.341 --> 00:27:04.241
at least talking about FPPA pension,
it's based off your three highest years.

00:27:04.491 --> 00:27:08.881
And obviously our, our chief officers get
compensated more than the firefighters do.

00:27:08.881 --> 00:27:11.961
So that's one of those things that,
your benefit would be enhanced

00:27:12.171 --> 00:27:13.981
because you're making a higher salary.

00:27:13.981 --> 00:27:16.721
So there's always going to be some
small nuances and everything else like

00:27:16.721 --> 00:27:20.361
this, but you know, broad strokes,
like Louie said, General rule of thumb.

00:27:20.701 --> 00:27:23.611
I would be in favor of keeping
that money, you know in a separate

00:27:23.611 --> 00:27:26.621
retirement vehicle and then you
can use it It's more portable.

00:27:26.621 --> 00:27:30.311
You just have more options So if
there's more questions that you guys

00:27:30.311 --> 00:27:34.921
have regarding, you know How that's
calculated other options or stuff that

00:27:34.921 --> 00:27:38.391
we didn't discover that was just kind
of high level but hopefully for that

00:27:38.391 --> 00:27:41.756
listener that had that question that
Just helps them maybe frame it and

00:27:41.766 --> 00:27:43.266
whether or not that's important or not.

00:27:43.266 --> 00:27:45.816
But the big thing is, is when
you can actually qualify for it.

00:27:45.816 --> 00:27:48.976
Cause I don't think a lot of people
understand you have to wait at least

00:27:48.986 --> 00:27:52.836
that first year for public years and
then five years for private years.

00:27:52.836 --> 00:27:54.226
So just something to consider.

00:27:54.536 --> 00:27:54.916
All right.

00:27:54.916 --> 00:27:57.176
Question number two, filing taxes.

00:27:57.496 --> 00:28:01.226
I am curious if firefighters have
any tax advantages, what we should

00:28:01.226 --> 00:28:05.516
generally be paying to have our taxes
done and ways to pay less taxes.

00:28:06.261 --> 00:28:11.481
In parentheses legally and the advantages
of the bespoke white glove tax filing

00:28:11.701 --> 00:28:16.481
Versus going to like an h& r block
or doing it on turbo tax All right.

00:28:16.481 --> 00:28:17.271
So, you know,

00:28:17.986 --> 00:28:18.306
Louie: boy,

00:28:18.431 --> 00:28:19.291
Jon: this is this

00:28:19.436 --> 00:28:20.876
Louie: to him, but we're
not tax professionals.

00:28:20.986 --> 00:28:21.316
First of

00:28:21.321 --> 00:28:21.611
Jon: this

00:28:21.666 --> 00:28:22.776
Louie: just got to tell you that this

00:28:22.781 --> 00:28:24.641
Jon: is not this is not tax advice, right?

00:28:24.641 --> 00:28:29.451
That's what the disclosure says so
generally speaking though, so I think we

00:28:29.451 --> 00:28:33.771
should, we should start with there is a
difference between tax evasion and then

00:28:33.771 --> 00:28:36.131
tax minimization slash optimization.

00:28:36.131 --> 00:28:40.351
So tax evasion is what you go to jail for.

00:28:40.511 --> 00:28:41.321
That's where you're.

00:28:41.406 --> 00:28:46.036
knowingly hiding income from the IRS,
not reporting it on your statements, and

00:28:46.036 --> 00:28:47.606
hence you're not paying taxes on that.

00:28:47.616 --> 00:28:51.196
That's illegal, and you will get
penalties and interest on those

00:28:51.226 --> 00:28:53.426
penalties and potentially get jail time.

00:28:53.426 --> 00:28:55.936
So we are not proponents of tax evasion.

00:28:56.006 --> 00:28:56.566
No tax

00:28:56.916 --> 00:28:57.596
Louie: No tax evasion

00:28:57.626 --> 00:28:58.026
Jon: about that.

00:28:58.246 --> 00:29:02.006
But one thing that you will hear and
something that I think a lot of financial

00:29:02.006 --> 00:29:05.836
professionals right now are spending
a lot of time and effort and doing for

00:29:05.836 --> 00:29:10.956
their clients is this concept of tax
optimization or tax minimization, right?

00:29:10.956 --> 00:29:14.306
You want to try to reduce your tax
liability and pay the government

00:29:14.306 --> 00:29:17.476
or the state, the least amount
of taxes as legally permissible.

00:29:17.476 --> 00:29:18.476
And that's a huge thing, right?

00:29:18.476 --> 00:29:19.956
They'll actually call it tax alpha.

00:29:20.196 --> 00:29:21.446
There's all sorts of different things.

00:29:21.446 --> 00:29:25.186
And this is the one thing that I actually
think a lot of financial advisors and

00:29:25.186 --> 00:29:26.796
professionals and accountants could have.

00:29:26.861 --> 00:29:31.161
A lot of value in making sure I'm
trying to reduce that amount of money.

00:29:31.161 --> 00:29:33.791
So really there's nothing specifically.

00:29:34.431 --> 00:29:38.571
that I know about tax advantage wise
that like firefighters specifically

00:29:38.571 --> 00:29:42.511
as a group are entitled to beyond
just the general population.

00:29:42.511 --> 00:29:46.051
Now we do have the opportunity
to take out our retirement funds

00:29:46.191 --> 00:29:48.271
earlier than the general population.

00:29:48.551 --> 00:29:52.411
There are certain provisions like we
talked about with the 457 and being able

00:29:52.411 --> 00:29:57.311
to use three thousand dollars of that
every year tax free for health care.

00:29:57.331 --> 00:30:00.551
So there are certain things like
that But really it comes down to

00:30:00.841 --> 00:30:03.071
trying to reduce your tax liability.

00:30:03.091 --> 00:30:05.721
If you're really trying to
do tax minimization, right?

00:30:05.721 --> 00:30:07.981
Minimize how much money you
have to pay to the government.

00:30:08.301 --> 00:30:12.261
It always comes out with your income and
then subtracting that by not having to

00:30:12.281 --> 00:30:15.401
have taxes paid on, on that liability.

00:30:15.411 --> 00:30:18.801
So really the ones that Louie and
I are familiar with and the ones

00:30:18.801 --> 00:30:22.911
that most listeners listening to
this will have access to is it.

00:30:22.941 --> 00:30:25.341
First and foremost is
retirement contributions.

00:30:25.581 --> 00:30:26.651
So right off the shoot.

00:30:26.651 --> 00:30:30.851
So your pension contributions or for
those West Metro members and other

00:30:30.851 --> 00:30:34.881
people listening to this, if you're in
a 401 a plan those come out tax free.

00:30:34.961 --> 00:30:35.251
All right.

00:30:35.251 --> 00:30:36.171
Those are tax free.

00:30:36.171 --> 00:30:39.261
So you're not taxed on whatever
contributions you have or

00:30:39.291 --> 00:30:40.851
the department contributions.

00:30:41.111 --> 00:30:44.641
There's also the four 57 plan
once again, but this would

00:30:44.641 --> 00:30:46.151
have to be the traditional four

00:30:46.391 --> 00:30:50.671
Louie: pre tax or traditional
contributions are Put in and you don't

00:30:50.671 --> 00:30:52.261
pay taxes on those contributions.

00:30:52.271 --> 00:30:57.101
So You know if you contribute on a
Roth basis to your 457 You're going to

00:30:57.101 --> 00:30:59.841
pay taxes, but if you feel like you're
in a really high tax bracket and you

00:30:59.841 --> 00:31:07.021
want to minimize Maybe a Pre tax or
traditional 457 or IRA is better for you.

00:31:07.101 --> 00:31:08.741
That would help lower your tax bill,

00:31:08.906 --> 00:31:09.386
Jon: Correct.

00:31:09.636 --> 00:31:12.796
There's also the, what we talked
about a couple episodes ago was

00:31:12.796 --> 00:31:14.166
a flexible spending accounts.

00:31:14.406 --> 00:31:18.416
So whether it's for healthcare or for
dependent care, that's also another way

00:31:18.416 --> 00:31:20.186
that those are pre tax contributions.

00:31:20.186 --> 00:31:23.056
So you're not going to pay federal
and state income taxes on those.

00:31:23.056 --> 00:31:25.206
So that will reduce your tax liability.

00:31:25.636 --> 00:31:27.676
On top of that, there's
the health savings account.

00:31:27.881 --> 00:31:31.051
Which once again west metro members
currently don't have this as an option

00:31:31.051 --> 00:31:34.241
at least through our employer Our health
care plans are not high deductible

00:31:34.241 --> 00:31:38.251
plans But you might be eligible through
your spouse or something else or if

00:31:38.251 --> 00:31:40.931
there's other listeners that have a
health savings account That is once

00:31:40.931 --> 00:31:44.771
again something that's going to be
done Pre tax, so you're going to reduce

00:31:44.771 --> 00:31:48.611
your tax liability on that 529 plans.

00:31:48.951 --> 00:31:50.711
Yeah the old 529

00:31:50.901 --> 00:31:55.411
Louie: three boys and we contribute to
a 529 for each of them and it is a nice

00:31:55.411 --> 00:31:57.371
little, it's a nice little tax break.

00:31:57.431 --> 00:31:58.091
Not gonna lie.

00:31:58.251 --> 00:32:01.481
Jon: So if you're wondering what
a 529 plan is, we haven't talked

00:32:01.481 --> 00:32:05.581
about that on the pod yet, but that
is a savings vehicle for college.

00:32:05.921 --> 00:32:07.681
So you use money for that.

00:32:07.721 --> 00:32:09.461
It grows tax free.

00:32:09.491 --> 00:32:10.541
And when you take it out.

00:32:10.771 --> 00:32:11.671
Louie: on a distribution

00:32:11.761 --> 00:32:12.841
Jon: comes out tax free.

00:32:13.091 --> 00:32:15.511
So, but it can only be used for education.

00:32:15.781 --> 00:32:17.181
So that's, that's the big thing with that.

00:32:17.181 --> 00:32:22.031
And when you're talking about a tax
reduction, it's only for the state.

00:32:22.061 --> 00:32:23.081
It's not federal.

00:32:23.091 --> 00:32:25.621
So you're not getting federal
taxes, which is where the majority

00:32:25.621 --> 00:32:27.461
of our income tax go to Colorado.

00:32:27.461 --> 00:32:29.091
It's got a really low threshold, like 4.

00:32:29.091 --> 00:32:33.111
4 percent is what our state
income taxes, but it's still 4.

00:32:33.121 --> 00:32:33.441
4%.

00:32:33.471 --> 00:32:36.491
And if you're going to save for college
anyways it's a really good way of

00:32:36.581 --> 00:32:37.691
saving a little bit of money on that.

00:32:37.691 --> 00:32:41.641
So that would be another potential
way to reduce your tax liability.

00:32:42.691 --> 00:32:45.951
So those really the ones, you know,
offhand that we think about when we think

00:32:45.961 --> 00:32:50.521
about trying to reduce your tax liability,
there's something that we'll probably

00:32:50.521 --> 00:32:52.471
do closer towards around tax time.

00:32:52.471 --> 00:32:55.451
When we actually talk more about
taxes, we'll have a tax episode,

00:32:55.741 --> 00:32:59.116
but that depends on whether or not
you take a standard deduction or.

00:32:59.156 --> 00:33:01.086
Or if you do an itemized deduction.

00:33:01.226 --> 00:33:04.776
So that's basically right off the top,
whether you're single or you're married,

00:33:04.776 --> 00:33:08.346
finally and jointly that the government
gives you credit for that will reduce

00:33:08.346 --> 00:33:10.606
your tax liability by whatever amount.

00:33:10.606 --> 00:33:14.886
So I can't remember what 2024
is, but it's almost 30, 000 for

00:33:14.886 --> 00:33:16.746
a married couple right now, yep.

00:33:16.756 --> 00:33:18.316
For a standard deduction
right off the bat.

00:33:18.316 --> 00:33:21.006
So if you were going to make a
hundred grand and you did the standard

00:33:21.006 --> 00:33:24.016
deduction and you're married finally
jointly, it'd be down to 70, 000.

00:33:24.086 --> 00:33:24.786
Right off the shoot.

00:33:24.786 --> 00:33:28.986
So we'll talk more about the difference
between standard deductions and itemized

00:33:28.986 --> 00:33:33.306
deductions in a further episode, but
just know with the tax cut and jobs

00:33:33.306 --> 00:33:37.746
act of 2017 they really, they reduced
a lot of the what was deductions.

00:33:37.746 --> 00:33:39.996
deductible from itemized deductions.

00:33:40.036 --> 00:33:44.186
And now it's over 90 percent of the
population just as a standard deduction.

00:33:44.226 --> 00:33:47.856
So there's a lot to that, but we'll talk
about more about that in another episode.

00:33:47.856 --> 00:33:51.216
So hopefully that gives you once again,
some framework is if you are trying

00:33:51.216 --> 00:33:55.506
to reduce your taxes, there are plenty
of opportunities through our employer

00:33:55.506 --> 00:33:57.666
benefits in which you can do that legally.

00:33:57.666 --> 00:33:57.956
Louie: Yep.

00:33:57.976 --> 00:33:58.276
Yep.

00:33:58.576 --> 00:34:01.456
And I, and then, the second part of that
question is what about, you know, going

00:34:01.456 --> 00:34:07.286
to white glove kind of service or a CPA
versus doing like a tax software, right?

00:34:07.286 --> 00:34:10.126
Like TurboTax or H& R
Block has tax software.

00:34:10.426 --> 00:34:11.926
I don't know what you do personally, John.

00:34:11.926 --> 00:34:13.916
I, I do the software.

00:34:13.916 --> 00:34:14.426
I do TurboTax.

00:34:14.463 --> 00:34:14.836
Jon: do TurboTax.

00:34:14.836 --> 00:34:15.926
Of course you do, Louie.

00:34:16.526 --> 00:34:17.376
Of course you do.

00:34:17.376 --> 00:34:18.186
Why wouldn't you?

00:34:18.456 --> 00:34:22.436
Louie: and I've done numerous things
with taxes in terms of, trying to

00:34:22.436 --> 00:34:27.086
do backdoor Roth IRAs at different
points and doing in plan conversions.

00:34:27.086 --> 00:34:28.626
I've done some weird
things that have made it.

00:34:28.806 --> 00:34:31.776
It is stretched the limit of the
software, but for most people, I would

00:34:31.776 --> 00:34:33.266
actually say the software is very good.

00:34:33.306 --> 00:34:38.446
It goes through the questions and it
goes through your unique tax situations.

00:34:38.446 --> 00:34:40.826
And especially if you use the
same software year over year, it

00:34:40.826 --> 00:34:42.116
kind of knows what you're doing.

00:34:42.116 --> 00:34:44.846
So it knows like, Hey, maybe
you've done this and it'll ask you,

00:34:45.186 --> 00:34:49.326
have you had any big changes this
year, employment status changes.

00:34:49.556 --> 00:34:50.486
You know, have you been married?

00:34:50.496 --> 00:34:51.216
Do you have children?

00:34:51.216 --> 00:34:53.416
And it kind of holds your hand through it.

00:34:53.716 --> 00:34:55.836
And I've found it to
be pretty good overall.

00:34:55.926 --> 00:34:59.666
Now I've not used an actual person,
like I've not gone into an H& R

00:34:59.666 --> 00:35:01.246
block and done my taxes that way.

00:35:01.486 --> 00:35:03.096
The truth is that they use software too.

00:35:03.136 --> 00:35:06.586
So they have you know, a little bit more
tailored software, but they kind of.

00:35:07.246 --> 00:35:09.986
You have the same scripts and the
same questions that they ask you.

00:35:10.276 --> 00:35:13.786
So if you feel like you need more hand
holding and you are really concerned

00:35:13.786 --> 00:35:18.796
about your taxes or you have complex tax
situations maybe through like a divorce or

00:35:19.186 --> 00:35:22.776
real estate that you hold or that you've
sold maybe you need a little bit more hand

00:35:22.776 --> 00:35:24.176
holding and those could be good options.

00:35:24.866 --> 00:35:28.756
But I have found for most people,
I think that the tax software does

00:35:28.756 --> 00:35:33.046
a pretty darn good job and it does
try to maximize your deduction too.

00:35:33.046 --> 00:35:34.986
So I don't know if you have
any thoughts on that, but

00:35:35.044 --> 00:35:35.786
Jon: thoughts on that.

00:35:35.786 --> 00:35:38.176
No, I think it's a very
individual decision and what

00:35:38.176 --> 00:35:39.316
you feel comfortable with.

00:35:39.346 --> 00:35:42.746
And I would say the majority of at least
speaking knowing our members in their

00:35:42.746 --> 00:35:46.946
circumstances, the majority of them,
they would be just fine doing a TurboTax

00:35:46.946 --> 00:35:48.686
or, and there's, seven different brands.

00:35:48.686 --> 00:35:51.746
There's H& R Block has their
own tax software, TaxSlayer.

00:35:51.756 --> 00:35:52.036
There's like.

00:35:52.326 --> 00:35:54.756
all sorts of different ones,
and they're all pretty similar.

00:35:54.796 --> 00:35:56.846
And you're going to spend
anywhere, probably like 80 to a

00:35:56.846 --> 00:35:58.186
hundred bucks for the software.

00:35:58.436 --> 00:36:02.536
But they will, line item got, Ask you
questions and it's all based on your

00:36:02.536 --> 00:36:06.246
1040 on your tax return and what you
need to fill out And if you're one of

00:36:06.246 --> 00:36:10.716
those people the 90 that does a standard
deduction I mean, you're not itemizing.

00:36:10.716 --> 00:36:11.476
It's really not that

00:36:11.651 --> 00:36:12.081
Louie: simple.

00:36:12.586 --> 00:36:13.676
Jon: That being said though.

00:36:13.676 --> 00:36:18.631
I have seen people make some big Pretty
significant mistakes on their tax returns.

00:36:18.961 --> 00:36:22.571
And that's just one of those things that,
I think it depends on your circumstances.

00:36:22.601 --> 00:36:25.831
But I think you should just, it's
like anything else, firefighters

00:36:25.841 --> 00:36:26.921
or any of us still try to do.

00:36:26.921 --> 00:36:30.051
We feel like we're experts or we
watched a YouTube or we stayed

00:36:30.051 --> 00:36:31.071
at the holiday and express

00:36:31.071 --> 00:36:32.461
Louie: or listen to a podcast

00:36:32.701 --> 00:36:35.291
Jon: to a podcast or like,
oh yeah, all day long.

00:36:35.351 --> 00:36:37.231
This whole backdoor Roth
that they were talking about.

00:36:37.231 --> 00:36:38.161
Yeah, I totally did that.

00:36:38.161 --> 00:36:40.081
And you just totally augured it in.

00:36:40.361 --> 00:36:41.661
So that's one of those things.

00:36:41.661 --> 00:36:44.631
if there's any kind of complexities, if
you're talking about selling real estate,

00:36:44.631 --> 00:36:48.441
if you own a business, if you've got an
inheritance, there's all sorts of rules

00:36:48.441 --> 00:36:50.361
that the IRS has that you got to stick.

00:36:50.401 --> 00:36:51.821
You got their stickler for it.

00:36:52.091 --> 00:36:55.161
And if you miss that timing on some of
those things, it can cost you dearly.

00:36:55.161 --> 00:36:57.471
So, just be advised at that.

00:36:57.471 --> 00:37:00.021
So once again, I think it kind
of, it's one of those, like,

00:37:00.271 --> 00:37:00.961
Louie: maybe try it,

00:37:01.291 --> 00:37:04.041
Jon: You know, I mean, one of those
things is there's nothing wrong with

00:37:04.051 --> 00:37:08.141
doing it yourself one year, basically
printing out the form, taking it to

00:37:08.191 --> 00:37:11.611
a professional, having them look over
and be like, yeah, no, this is perfect.

00:37:11.811 --> 00:37:13.911
That way you at least know
you're on the right track.

00:37:14.081 --> 00:37:18.111
So if your life is pretty much the same
year over year, over year, you've already

00:37:18.111 --> 00:37:21.241
got that template and you already had
someone, a professional look over it.

00:37:21.511 --> 00:37:23.341
Now, you know that you're
not missing anything.

00:37:23.341 --> 00:37:25.821
You're not missing any deductions
that you should qualify for.

00:37:25.821 --> 00:37:25.836
So.

00:37:25.846 --> 00:37:26.806
All these other things.

00:37:26.836 --> 00:37:29.036
And that way that might just give
you a little bit more peace of mind.

00:37:29.036 --> 00:37:30.256
I have heard of people doing that.

00:37:30.256 --> 00:37:32.786
Like, okay, I'm going to try
this out and then I'm going to

00:37:32.796 --> 00:37:33.706
bring this to a professional.

00:37:33.706 --> 00:37:36.226
I'm going to have them look over it
and be like, yep, no, it looks good.

00:37:36.286 --> 00:37:39.246
I don't see any issues or
you've missed this on this.

00:37:39.256 --> 00:37:42.066
You got to consider this and be
like, oh, okay, maybe I'm not ready.

00:37:42.086 --> 00:37:43.046
Or maybe I'm not prepared.

00:37:43.076 --> 00:37:45.476
Or maybe my circumstances are
a little bit more complex.

00:37:45.476 --> 00:37:47.506
So just our little two cents on that.

00:37:48.431 --> 00:37:48.981
All right.

00:37:48.981 --> 00:37:49.631
Question three.

00:37:49.631 --> 00:37:50.961
We've only got a couple of questions left.

00:37:51.211 --> 00:37:51.511
All right.

00:37:51.531 --> 00:37:55.341
I'm getting married next year and
discussing with my fiance, whether or

00:37:55.341 --> 00:38:00.111
not to bring her on my insurance or
have her stay on her employer's plan.

00:38:00.361 --> 00:38:04.851
I know we get great benefits here, but
it can be hard to understand exactly what

00:38:04.851 --> 00:38:08.891
we get and what we're paying for and how
it compares to other corporate insurance.

00:38:09.191 --> 00:38:10.941
How do we know what is a good deal?

00:38:11.201 --> 00:38:13.551
How does it change with or without kids?

00:38:14.001 --> 00:38:15.461
Also, is there other.

00:38:15.721 --> 00:38:19.841
Ancillary options to buy into like Affleck
at what point did those become worth

00:38:19.841 --> 00:38:25.911
spending money on so let's Kind of unpack
that and I'll save the the supplemental

00:38:26.201 --> 00:38:29.231
Plans for a different episode because
that's something that Louie and I will

00:38:29.251 --> 00:38:32.581
kind of talk about because there's a
lot of different things coming down the

00:38:32.581 --> 00:38:36.841
pike for that but as far as you know
insurance and what's the best deal I'll

00:38:36.841 --> 00:38:38.421
tell you this we've gone through it.

00:38:38.431 --> 00:38:42.441
Louie and I sit on the executive board and
we look through other locals contracts and

00:38:42.441 --> 00:38:45.651
see what other locals are paying as far
as health insurance and everything else.

00:38:45.661 --> 00:38:48.921
West Metro has got a really
good plan, our 80 20 split.

00:38:48.931 --> 00:38:52.141
So the employer picks up 80 percent
of the premiums and the member picks

00:38:52.141 --> 00:38:53.881
up 20 percent is a pretty good deal.

00:38:54.201 --> 00:38:56.321
I can just speak for, for myself.

00:38:56.531 --> 00:38:59.121
My wife works for a major corporation.

00:38:59.191 --> 00:39:01.881
Probably what you would think
of like a Cadillac plan, quote

00:39:01.881 --> 00:39:03.461
unquote, for like health insurance.

00:39:03.751 --> 00:39:07.021
And West Metro's plan is
just as competitive if not

00:39:07.021 --> 00:39:08.451
better in some circumstances.

00:39:08.451 --> 00:39:12.661
So I would say for the majority of
our members, not knowing, and once

00:39:12.661 --> 00:39:14.461
again, this is very individualistic.

00:39:14.461 --> 00:39:17.301
There might be some amazing
corporate plans out there

00:39:17.301 --> 00:39:18.441
where they pay for everything.

00:39:18.781 --> 00:39:22.241
My sister works for a government
in which they pay for everything.

00:39:22.251 --> 00:39:23.981
They pay a hundred percent of
the premiums, but they pay a

00:39:23.981 --> 00:39:24.356
hundred percent of the premiums.

00:39:24.646 --> 00:39:25.276
Pretty good deal.

00:39:25.516 --> 00:39:27.596
I would, I would sit there
and say like, take that one.

00:39:27.836 --> 00:39:31.566
But if it's not then I think you just
kind of take the employer benefit

00:39:31.566 --> 00:39:34.896
plans, you know, and every year in open
enrollment season, they'll give you a

00:39:34.896 --> 00:39:38.886
list of what it costs as far as premiums
and then what your coverages are.

00:39:39.146 --> 00:39:41.516
And then you just kind of have to
look through and see like, Oh, okay,

00:39:41.516 --> 00:39:45.346
this is 80, 20, or this is 90, 10,
but this costs us much, what's the

00:39:45.346 --> 00:39:48.796
deductible and just kind of analyze
what you want to look through.

00:39:48.826 --> 00:39:51.346
The one thing that I will say,
I'm a huge advocate for our

00:39:51.346 --> 00:39:53.356
insurance as For the most part.

00:39:53.866 --> 00:39:55.586
Our members will stay here for 30 years.

00:39:55.806 --> 00:39:57.526
It's a huge pain in the ass to switch

00:39:57.781 --> 00:39:57.971
Louie: jobs.

00:39:57.981 --> 00:39:58.531
Oh gosh, it's

00:39:58.596 --> 00:40:00.026
Jon: like on a yearly basis.

00:40:00.086 --> 00:40:02.926
Honestly, like if you have a
spouse or a partner or someone

00:40:02.926 --> 00:40:06.636
else that switch jobs every couple
of years, huge pain to be okay.

00:40:06.636 --> 00:40:07.186
What are we doing?

00:40:07.196 --> 00:40:08.076
Is this United?

00:40:08.076 --> 00:40:09.196
Was this Cigna?

00:40:09.206 --> 00:40:10.566
Was this someone else's plan?

00:40:10.566 --> 00:40:11.326
Like, where can we go?

00:40:11.326 --> 00:40:12.236
Is this in network?

00:40:12.236 --> 00:40:13.256
Is this out network?

00:40:13.646 --> 00:40:16.586
You know, so sometimes it's just
the convenience of knowing the plan

00:40:16.886 --> 00:40:20.226
and knowing what, you know, what
providers will take the insurance

00:40:20.226 --> 00:40:21.196
and everything else like that.

00:40:21.196 --> 00:40:24.726
So I'm a huge fan of keeping
things simple and easy.

00:40:25.156 --> 00:40:28.786
And even if it costs you another 10
a month, like that ease of use and

00:40:28.786 --> 00:40:32.586
not having to transport those plans
and get people re enrolled is huge.

00:40:32.636 --> 00:40:34.606
Louie: a lot of time savings
there that you get and you

00:40:34.606 --> 00:40:36.126
have to put a value on that.

00:40:36.516 --> 00:40:40.676
And I, you know, John, Caitlin
works for a big employer too.

00:40:40.676 --> 00:40:45.976
And so we've had this conversation and
what we do is we look at the price of

00:40:46.396 --> 00:40:47.926
her insurance versus the price of ours.

00:40:47.926 --> 00:40:49.036
And they're pretty competitive.

00:40:49.476 --> 00:40:53.676
And I know when we look at it in
general, I, this is not true for

00:40:53.676 --> 00:40:57.586
everyone, like you said, it depends
on the employer, but it costs a lot of

00:40:57.586 --> 00:41:00.556
money when you put someone on your plan.

00:41:00.556 --> 00:41:01.606
And that's a spouse.

00:41:02.001 --> 00:41:05.091
And it costs even more money when you
put someone, when you put dependents

00:41:05.091 --> 00:41:06.211
on there, your children on there.

00:41:06.521 --> 00:41:10.721
So for us, and for a lot of people,
it, if it's a good health insurance

00:41:10.721 --> 00:41:13.121
plan, it might make sense to have.

00:41:13.561 --> 00:41:17.551
you on the, the firefighters insurance
plan, the insurance plan that we

00:41:17.551 --> 00:41:22.751
get, but maybe have your spouse on
his or her insurance plan through

00:41:22.751 --> 00:41:25.471
their employer, because those are
heavily subsidized very often.

00:41:25.891 --> 00:41:27.361
That's how it's been for us.

00:41:27.411 --> 00:41:29.461
It doesn't make sense to
bring Caitlin over to my plan.

00:41:29.461 --> 00:41:31.271
So we have her on her plan.

00:41:31.711 --> 00:41:33.941
Then we had to decide what to
do with the children, right?

00:41:33.941 --> 00:41:34.831
Because that adds a lot.

00:41:34.966 --> 00:41:38.016
So I just look at the price, every
employer will give you what's

00:41:38.016 --> 00:41:40.806
called a health benefit rate form.

00:41:41.016 --> 00:41:44.436
And that kind of shows you what the
price would be per pay period and

00:41:44.436 --> 00:41:49.136
per month for you as an employee
to have the health insurance.

00:41:49.366 --> 00:41:52.576
Also, to have a spouse on your health
insurance and then also to have

00:41:52.716 --> 00:41:54.616
children or to just have children.

00:41:54.946 --> 00:41:57.706
And so we look at that and
we compare what's cheaper?

00:41:57.706 --> 00:42:00.206
Is it cheaper to have
them on mine or on hers?

00:42:00.666 --> 00:42:01.956
So that is one thing to consider

00:42:02.061 --> 00:42:03.641
Jon: it doesn't have to
be all or none, right?

00:42:03.641 --> 00:42:07.541
You can elect different coverages based
on the employer's plan and who, and

00:42:07.541 --> 00:42:11.061
like you said, which, which makes the
most like financial, economic sense.

00:42:11.321 --> 00:42:11.991
And then same thing.

00:42:11.991 --> 00:42:15.301
If you, if the other person plans
on probably being at that employer

00:42:15.301 --> 00:42:18.241
for awhile, it just makes ease
of use and then you move forward.

00:42:18.241 --> 00:42:21.151
So the other thing is if you ever
lose coverage because of a loss of

00:42:21.151 --> 00:42:24.736
employment, that gives you a change and
will allow you to, you know, basically

00:42:24.736 --> 00:42:26.546
enroll in our insurance as well.

00:42:26.546 --> 00:42:29.766
So there are always those, I'm
trying to remember the specific term,

00:42:29.766 --> 00:42:32.836
like life changes or it's something
like that, that allow you to, it's

00:42:32.836 --> 00:42:35.916
always like the birth divorce or
separation of service, something like

00:42:35.916 --> 00:42:38.966
that, that allows you to then get
on your spouse's or partner's plan.

00:42:39.066 --> 00:42:40.656
Cause they want people to be covered.

00:42:40.676 --> 00:42:41.146
Louie: Right.

00:42:41.286 --> 00:42:43.016
And then the other thing that
we consider when we're making

00:42:43.016 --> 00:42:45.096
this Plan is like the benefits.

00:42:45.106 --> 00:42:52.226
So there's like a health plan summary form
that our HR provides us every year and My

00:42:52.226 --> 00:42:54.036
wife's employer provides that to her too.

00:42:54.036 --> 00:42:56.606
So we'll compare those like what
are the out of pocket maxes?

00:42:56.646 --> 00:42:57.636
What are the deductibles?

00:42:57.666 --> 00:43:01.076
What are the what's covered what's not
covered and then we'll make sure that

00:43:01.076 --> 00:43:06.081
they're fairly comparable So we always
consider that when we're choosing is

00:43:06.081 --> 00:43:07.121
she going to come to my insurance?

00:43:07.121 --> 00:43:08.111
Is she going to stay on hers?

00:43:08.471 --> 00:43:10.921
And then one of the biggest things,
and we talked about this a couple

00:43:10.921 --> 00:43:15.931
episodes ago, is maybe your spouse has
an option for a health savings account.

00:43:15.971 --> 00:43:17.651
And that is the case with my wife.

00:43:17.991 --> 00:43:19.411
We really like the health savings account.

00:43:19.411 --> 00:43:22.081
We talked about that, the triple
tax advantage that it brings.

00:43:22.171 --> 00:43:24.181
It's a great retirement savings vehicle.

00:43:24.591 --> 00:43:26.351
And so we don't want to give that up.

00:43:26.351 --> 00:43:30.051
So we have on her insurance so that we
can qualify for a health savings account.

00:43:30.301 --> 00:43:33.801
And her employer will actually match
some contributions and give her like

00:43:33.801 --> 00:43:36.471
little, I think they call them like
rewards where they basically put in

00:43:36.471 --> 00:43:38.451
money into that health savings account.

00:43:38.961 --> 00:43:40.611
And so we don't want to give that up.

00:43:40.611 --> 00:43:41.251
We really liked that.

00:43:41.251 --> 00:43:44.171
We think that's very valuable
and Caitlin is very healthy.

00:43:44.171 --> 00:43:47.161
So the high deductible health plan that
she needs to qualify for the health

00:43:47.161 --> 00:43:49.081
savings account works perfect for us.

00:43:49.111 --> 00:43:54.452
So I put the children on my health
plan, Caitlin stays on her plan.

00:43:54.562 --> 00:43:56.392
We're able to get the health
savings account and we're able to

00:43:56.392 --> 00:43:59.762
save money because her employer
subsidizes that health insurance.

00:44:00.002 --> 00:44:02.932
And then the kids who have a
bunch of doctor's appointments and

00:44:02.972 --> 00:44:06.082
are more likely to get, sick and
need stuff or get hurt they're on

00:44:06.082 --> 00:44:07.952
mine, which is a really good plan.

00:44:07.972 --> 00:44:10.702
So that works well for us,
but we just compared, we

00:44:10.702 --> 00:44:12.242
compared the benefit coverages.

00:44:12.472 --> 00:44:16.652
We compared the The plan rates and
then we made the decision for us.

00:44:16.652 --> 00:44:19.502
And I, I would encourage everyone
to do that is look at your options.

00:44:19.832 --> 00:44:22.442
Don't just compare the dollar amount
that you pay in the premiums, but

00:44:22.442 --> 00:44:26.862
also compare the out-of-pocket
max and the deductibles and then

00:44:26.947 --> 00:44:29.857
Jon: Coverage is in network, out
of network, all those other things.

00:44:29.867 --> 00:44:33.017
There's a lot of, nuances with
this and, we could speak for

00:44:33.037 --> 00:44:34.537
hours on health insurance,

00:44:34.642 --> 00:44:35.092
Louie: Mm-hmm . Just

00:44:35.177 --> 00:44:36.617
Jon: how complicated it can be.

00:44:36.657 --> 00:44:40.067
I think we're in whatever episode
five or whatever of these things now.

00:44:40.067 --> 00:44:43.307
And I think you've definitely seen
the theme is it's really tough to

00:44:43.307 --> 00:44:47.257
just speak in such general manners
because everyone's circumstances is

00:44:47.257 --> 00:44:48.417
going to be different, is going to be

00:44:48.425 --> 00:44:49.786
Louie: broken record for saying that.

00:44:49.786 --> 00:44:53.870
We're just trying to tell you guys,
like there's, it's hard for us to answer

00:44:53.870 --> 00:44:56.865
a specific question for a specific
individual without knowing all of

00:44:56.865 --> 00:45:00.597
the things that are available to that
person or that they're going through.

00:45:00.597 --> 00:45:01.347
Or yeah.

00:45:01.507 --> 00:45:01.727
Yeah.

00:45:01.747 --> 00:45:04.387
Jon: so hopefully that that
helps the listener at least just

00:45:04.397 --> 00:45:08.127
help frame that or navigate the
complexities of health insurance.

00:45:08.447 --> 00:45:12.197
All right, last question that we're
going to handle today is Roth versus

00:45:12.217 --> 00:45:14.097
traditional income break over points.

00:45:14.357 --> 00:45:18.392
I'm going to be hovering the line between
the 24 percent and 32 percent difference.

00:45:18.392 --> 00:45:20.672
Tax bracket, depending on my deductions.

00:45:20.962 --> 00:45:23.962
So I'm leaning more towards
traditional at the moment, but

00:45:23.962 --> 00:45:25.922
wanted to hear your opinions.

00:45:26.182 --> 00:45:31.562
So this going into when we talked about,
last month's episode, the four 57 and

00:45:31.562 --> 00:45:35.792
talking about the difference between
traditional or pre tax contributions

00:45:35.792 --> 00:45:41.942
to your four 57 or doing a Roth or
after tax slash post tax contributions.

00:45:42.072 --> 00:45:44.272
So this is one thing that I don't think.

00:45:44.492 --> 00:45:50.492
Most people understand how taxes work,
generally speaking, in the United States.

00:45:50.702 --> 00:45:53.592
The tax system is a
progressive tax system.

00:45:53.592 --> 00:45:57.202
So basically, the more money you make,
the more income that's taxable, the

00:45:57.202 --> 00:45:59.432
higher rate of which you're gonna pay.

00:45:59.452 --> 00:46:00.822
And those are different phases.

00:46:00.822 --> 00:46:04.390
talking about This year there's what
is there seven different brackets?

00:46:04.580 --> 00:46:11.180
There's the 10%, 12%,
37 percent tax brackets.

00:46:11.490 --> 00:46:14.150
So you can't just sit there
and go like, okay, cool.

00:46:14.450 --> 00:46:16.520
I made 300, 000 a year.

00:46:16.740 --> 00:46:17.540
I know.

00:46:17.600 --> 00:46:20.980
That's going to put me if I'm married
finally and jointly, that's going to

00:46:20.980 --> 00:46:23.260
put me in the 24 percent tax bracket.

00:46:23.300 --> 00:46:26.220
I can just take 300,
000 multiply that by 20.

00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:28.040
Point two, four, that's going to
give me how much I'm going to owe

00:46:28.040 --> 00:46:29.280
the federal government in taxes.

00:46:29.690 --> 00:46:30.630
It doesn't work that way.

00:46:31.170 --> 00:46:34.850
I don't know how many times I've
had people try to understand the

00:46:34.850 --> 00:46:37.420
taxes and like, okay, this is
how much I'm going to pay in tax.

00:46:37.420 --> 00:46:38.230
And it just

00:46:38.250 --> 00:46:40.630
Louie: it never yeah Never
works out how people think it

00:46:40.715 --> 00:46:41.205
Jon: Yeah.

00:46:41.325 --> 00:46:44.075
So there's two different key points
that you think about, or if you ever

00:46:44.075 --> 00:46:47.425
do a TurboTax or something like that,
it will tell you two different things.

00:46:47.425 --> 00:46:51.125
It'll tell you what your marginal
tax bracket is, which is what this

00:46:51.125 --> 00:46:52.755
listener question is all about.

00:46:53.045 --> 00:46:55.315
And then there's also
something called the effective.

00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:58.730
And that's basically what
you ended up paying taxes on.

00:46:59.180 --> 00:46:59.730
That's yep.

00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.660
That's when you took all your money,
took all the deductions, and then you

00:47:02.660 --> 00:47:04.560
divide that by how much you had in taxes.

00:47:04.650 --> 00:47:06.470
That will tell you what
your percentage was.

00:47:06.470 --> 00:47:11.400
So even if you are in the 24 percent
or in this case, the 32 percent tax

00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:14.570
bracket, your effective tax rate
is never going to be that high.

00:47:14.580 --> 00:47:16.970
It's significantly lower than that.

00:47:16.970 --> 00:47:19.670
this decision really,
it's one of those things.

00:47:19.690 --> 00:47:22.160
it always depends broken record.

00:47:22.210 --> 00:47:23.230
Me personally.

00:47:23.875 --> 00:47:27.505
When I look through this, though, I
would say that any one general rule of

00:47:27.505 --> 00:47:32.555
thumb, like 24 percent is still a pretty
low rate, historically speaking, we

00:47:32.555 --> 00:47:34.285
don't know where taxes are going to go.

00:47:34.515 --> 00:47:38.295
Most prognosticators that will tell
you based on our budget deficits

00:47:38.495 --> 00:47:41.975
and the amount of money that the
federal government has been borrowing.

00:47:42.385 --> 00:47:43.905
Taxes have only one way to go.

00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:48.590
Only one way to go and that's up
so I am of that belief as well So

00:47:48.590 --> 00:47:53.510
I think 24 is a reasonable tax rate
And if I was in that tax bracket me

00:47:53.510 --> 00:47:56.850
personally in my family situation,
I would do the roth contribution.

00:47:56.950 --> 00:47:57.280
I just

00:47:57.380 --> 00:47:58.115
Louie: would too.

00:47:58.165 --> 00:47:59.085
Yeah, I think you're right.

00:47:59.085 --> 00:48:01.895
It's it's hard to know what's going to
happen in the future tax rates could come

00:48:01.895 --> 00:48:06.915
down But if you look historically they're
at Like all time lows like they're really

00:48:06.915 --> 00:48:11.950
low And so I think john you have the
same theory that I do as well With all

00:48:11.950 --> 00:48:13.260
this blowout spending that we're doing.

00:48:13.260 --> 00:48:15.550
It doesn't matter who the president
is or who controls Congress.

00:48:15.550 --> 00:48:20.630
Both sides are just blowing out the budget
in, in levels that have historically

00:48:20.640 --> 00:48:22.930
only been used during times of war.

00:48:23.270 --> 00:48:24.190
That's every year.

00:48:24.260 --> 00:48:25.050
That's every year.

00:48:25.070 --> 00:48:26.810
At some point, I feel like.

00:48:27.095 --> 00:48:30.495
That has to come due that tax bill is
going to come due and they're going to

00:48:30.505 --> 00:48:35.165
have to increase income tax rates in order
To meet those needs I might be wrong.

00:48:35.215 --> 00:48:39.525
It might not happen in our lifetime
Who knows but I just like knowing what

00:48:39.525 --> 00:48:43.805
i'm paying on my tax rate So if I know
that i'm at the 24 marginal tax bracket

00:48:44.795 --> 00:48:48.575
Boy, that seems like a pretty good
deal I'm gonna pay those taxes now and

00:48:48.575 --> 00:48:52.565
the way you pay those taxes now is By
contributing to a Roth account, like

00:48:52.565 --> 00:48:56.995
a Roth 457 or Roth IRA, you pay the
tax bill and then it doesn't matter

00:48:56.995 --> 00:48:58.185
what the tax rates are in the future.

00:48:58.195 --> 00:49:00.775
You've already paid those
taxes and you can withdraw that

00:49:00.775 --> 00:49:03.025
money tax free, so to speak.

00:49:03.025 --> 00:49:06.935
So, in general, my gut is to always
be like, man, getting in, locking

00:49:06.935 --> 00:49:11.525
in those tax payments now through
Roth contributions is the way to go.

00:49:11.895 --> 00:49:11.985
But

00:49:12.925 --> 00:49:13.125
Jon: Yeah.

00:49:13.125 --> 00:49:16.525
And you're talking an 8 percent
difference between the 24 and the 32.

00:49:16.525 --> 00:49:19.835
That's a pretty big threshold
versus like 22 versus 24.

00:49:19.835 --> 00:49:24.015
You're talking 2%, not really
significant, but the 24 to 32 is really

00:49:24.275 --> 00:49:25.505
where you start to hit the break over.

00:49:25.505 --> 00:49:30.275
people that I talked to that are
in the 30%, so 32, 35, 37 percent

00:49:30.295 --> 00:49:35.925
brackets, I tend to be more of a pre
tax person, save that money pre tax.

00:49:35.945 --> 00:49:38.265
And then in retirement, once again.

00:49:38.955 --> 00:49:43.715
Most of us hopefully will retire somewhere
between, you know, 55 to early sixties.

00:49:43.945 --> 00:49:49.855
You're going to have, you know, almost
13 to 14 years or more before required

00:49:49.855 --> 00:49:53.055
minimal distributions are going to happen
where then you can, so you can do Roth

00:49:53.055 --> 00:49:57.745
conversions, which we will talk about in a
whole other episode because firefighters,

00:49:57.865 --> 00:49:59.845
police officers retire early.

00:49:59.845 --> 00:50:02.395
We have an opportunity to do some of
those conversions and that can save

00:50:02.395 --> 00:50:03.865
you a ton of money in the future.

00:50:04.065 --> 00:50:04.825
So we'll talk about

00:50:04.970 --> 00:50:08.110
Louie: And, and also, just, you can
look these tax rates up and also the,

00:50:08.210 --> 00:50:11.700
the income that, that you have to
qualify or that you have to make in

00:50:11.700 --> 00:50:13.150
order to be in those tax brackets.

00:50:13.150 --> 00:50:16.470
But just so we're clear, the 24
percent tax bracket, if you're married

00:50:16.740 --> 00:50:20.780
and you're filing jointly, the 24
percent marginal tax rate covers your,

00:50:20.830 --> 00:50:25.180
income from 201, 000 to 383, 900.

00:50:25.190 --> 00:50:28.330
So, in order to get to the 32
percent tax bracket, you have

00:50:28.340 --> 00:50:31.560
to start making over 384, 000.

00:50:31.570 --> 00:50:32.390
that's pretty high.

00:50:32.790 --> 00:50:35.975
Not so high if you're married
to a, PA, let's say, or a

00:50:36.155 --> 00:50:38.185
doctor, but what's up, Joel?

00:50:38.255 --> 00:50:38.905
What's up, Max?

00:50:39.235 --> 00:50:43.215
But if you are not in that really
high income, I would consider that

00:50:43.215 --> 00:50:47.025
a very high income then you're
probably in the 24 percent or 22%.

00:50:47.575 --> 00:50:49.915
Pretty good tax rates
at that, at that point.

00:50:49.915 --> 00:50:50.480
So.

00:50:50.895 --> 00:50:54.325
Jon: Yeah, and something that we talked
about a little bit with the 457 plan

00:50:54.325 --> 00:50:59.285
is not this year, so not 2025, but
starting in 2026, at least for West

00:50:59.285 --> 00:51:03.665
Metro folks, we're going to have the
option to start splitting contributions,

00:51:03.665 --> 00:51:05.355
so just, split it down the middle.

00:51:05.355 --> 00:51:09.615
50 percent is going to go pre tax, 50
percent is going to go post tax, so

00:51:10.205 --> 00:51:11.365
that's something that's going to happen.

00:51:11.745 --> 00:51:15.445
All right, so those are the, Listen
to our questions for this episode, and

00:51:15.445 --> 00:51:19.585
then we're gonna, we're gonna end the
episode with some breaking news, if you

00:51:19.585 --> 00:51:23.785
will, and this is something save the
best for last, if you will, but this

00:51:23.795 --> 00:51:28.725
is something that is probably the most
significant changes to firefighters,

00:51:28.775 --> 00:51:33.805
police officers, teachers, when it
comes to retirement and social security.

00:51:33.895 --> 00:51:35.405
In about the last 40 years.

00:51:35.705 --> 00:51:36.175
All right.

00:51:36.175 --> 00:51:40.775
So I know a lot of our members, a
lot of IFF members have been getting

00:51:40.815 --> 00:51:44.105
emails, basically saying reach
out to your congressional members,

00:51:44.365 --> 00:51:49.635
congressmen, senators, and tell them
about social security fairness act.

00:51:49.895 --> 00:51:50.175
All right.

00:51:50.175 --> 00:51:51.755
So there's a lot of movement going on.

00:51:51.755 --> 00:51:56.430
If foot right now with this, and this
is the best opportunity to repeal this

00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:59.110
provision basically in the last 40 years.

00:51:59.220 --> 00:52:01.820
So I'm going to talk about the
two provisions really quickly.

00:52:02.130 --> 00:52:06.430
I want to really save a lot of the
topic of conversation for this, because

00:52:06.430 --> 00:52:09.670
I'm hoping next month to report back
that we're going to have some news

00:52:09.670 --> 00:52:12.860
that we can talk about them repealing
this, but I want people to just have

00:52:12.860 --> 00:52:14.670
an understanding of what this is.

00:52:14.670 --> 00:52:20.580
So if you are a, if you are someone that
works and you get a non It's basically

00:52:20.580 --> 00:52:22.310
what they call a non covered pension.

00:52:22.410 --> 00:52:25.180
All right, so you're not paying
into social security Which is

00:52:25.200 --> 00:52:28.960
about two thirds of firefighters
police officers and teachers don't

00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:30.800
pay into social security, right?

00:52:30.850 --> 00:52:34.630
I think most of us understand that but
I think we still think like we're going

00:52:34.630 --> 00:52:37.850
to get some kind of social security
Benefit at the end if we've paid into it

00:52:37.880 --> 00:52:42.030
before we'll get something like I know
just talking to some recent retirees

00:52:42.250 --> 00:52:46.350
They had zero idea that there would
be some type of reduction And social

00:52:46.350 --> 00:52:50.415
security benefits for them Because
they had this non covered pension.

00:52:50.415 --> 00:52:55.295
So there's two different provisions
that this that they're trying to repeal

00:52:55.525 --> 00:52:57.765
with this social security fairness act.

00:52:58.055 --> 00:53:02.005
So one of them is called the
windfall elimination provision.

00:53:02.325 --> 00:53:03.595
It's also called the WEP.

00:53:04.055 --> 00:53:07.355
This is something that's been
around since 1983 is when it got

00:53:07.375 --> 00:53:11.700
enacted, but basically the windfall
elimination provision, or the WEP, is.

00:53:11.700 --> 00:53:15.640
Is a provision that will reduce
a certain amount of your social

00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:19.960
security benefits if you don't have
enough substantial earning years.

00:53:20.060 --> 00:53:21.350
There's a lot, that's a big

00:53:21.420 --> 00:53:23.540
Louie: it's all, it's
a lot, it's a lot to go

00:53:23.600 --> 00:53:25.840
Jon: a lot to think about, but
this is something that a lot of our

00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:27.610
members are going to be subjected to.

00:53:27.940 --> 00:53:31.970
If you work at a part time job,
if you're self employed, and let's

00:53:31.970 --> 00:53:33.900
say you make 15 or 20 grand a year.

00:53:34.060 --> 00:53:36.690
Louie: if you had a different career
before you became a firefighter,

00:53:36.690 --> 00:53:38.180
which a lot of our guys do,

00:53:38.380 --> 00:53:41.560
Jon: You worked eight, 10, 15, 20
years in the the private sector.

00:53:41.560 --> 00:53:43.290
So you've been paying
into social security.

00:53:43.290 --> 00:53:44.500
So you have all this money.

00:53:44.730 --> 00:53:47.170
So what is, how does all this stuff work?

00:53:47.170 --> 00:53:53.590
So basically if you have less than 20
years of substantial earning years,

00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:57.250
and we can put this on the Instagram
page, this was probably good for like a

00:53:57.250 --> 00:54:01.670
reference point, but there's a certain
amount that That the IRS comes out with

00:54:01.690 --> 00:54:04.410
every year, basically saying that you
have to make a certain amount of money

00:54:04.610 --> 00:54:09.120
for it to be considered substantial
and you're giving credit for that year.

00:54:09.310 --> 00:54:13.140
So that's not to be confused with
just qualifying for social security,

00:54:13.140 --> 00:54:16.190
because those are two separate
things, which is 40 credits.

00:54:16.400 --> 00:54:17.540
So basically you can get.

00:54:17.715 --> 00:54:21.735
Up to four credits per year and
that's based off a certain amount.

00:54:21.735 --> 00:54:26.305
I think I looked it up in this year,
2024, in order to get one social

00:54:26.305 --> 00:54:32.275
security credit, you had to at least
make 1, 730, pretty low threshold.

00:54:32.275 --> 00:54:35.995
So, you know, if you made
7, 000 in a year, you would

00:54:35.995 --> 00:54:38.425
qualify for social security.

00:54:38.860 --> 00:54:42.220
Credits on four credits
worth in that one year.

00:54:42.220 --> 00:54:46.100
So many, in order to qualify for
social security as a benefit, you

00:54:46.100 --> 00:54:48.060
have to have at least 40 credits.

00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:51.610
Most of the time, it's about
10 working years worth of

00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:53.150
contributions to social security.

00:54:53.170 --> 00:54:56.600
to get something at the end to get a
benefit, which a lot of our members

00:54:56.600 --> 00:54:58.060
will have just through side jobs.

00:54:58.240 --> 00:55:00.700
You started working something
when you're 16 at Chick fil A

00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:02.110
and you start paying into this.

00:55:02.150 --> 00:55:05.390
Most people will probably qualify
or will have something that they

00:55:05.390 --> 00:55:07.850
should at least get some kind
of social security benefit for.

00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:12.480
So and the way that social security
works is it's meant to replace.

00:55:12.565 --> 00:55:15.485
it's supposed to be a higher
percentage for lower income earners.

00:55:15.835 --> 00:55:19.235
So the the thing I want you guys to
remember is social security really is

00:55:19.235 --> 00:55:25.145
meant to be for a higher replacement ratio
For lower income earners versus higher

00:55:25.145 --> 00:55:27.695
income earners So and this is why this

00:55:27.925 --> 00:55:28.565
Louie: affects,

00:55:28.895 --> 00:55:32.365
Jon: You know, firefighters, teachers,
police officers that have a second job

00:55:32.385 --> 00:55:35.995
and are making, you know, what would be
considered a lower wage because that's

00:55:35.995 --> 00:55:38.375
not their primary earnings, right there.

00:55:38.415 --> 00:55:40.135
This is, they're doing it as a side work.

00:55:40.485 --> 00:55:44.145
So what the windfall elimination
provision does is instead of using

00:55:44.145 --> 00:55:49.235
that 90 percent factor for that first
job, 1, 100, let's call it 1, 200.

00:55:49.535 --> 00:55:50.765
It's going to give you a factor.

00:55:50.775 --> 00:55:54.095
If you have less than 20 years of
substantial earnings, it's going

00:55:54.095 --> 00:55:55.745
to give you a 40 percent factor.

00:55:56.055 --> 00:56:00.115
So you're not going to get, you're
not going to get that 1, benefit.

00:56:00.325 --> 00:56:03.585
You're only going to get 40 percent
of that 1, 100 or 1, 200 benefit,

00:56:03.715 --> 00:56:06.605
which is huge, you know, and that's
a lot of our, a lot of our members.

00:56:06.605 --> 00:56:09.355
So for 2025 or 2024,

00:56:09.945 --> 00:56:10.755
Louie: 2024.

00:56:10.765 --> 00:56:13.515
Jon: I think it ended up being
like, it could reduce your social

00:56:13.515 --> 00:56:15.765
security benefit up to 590.

00:56:16.105 --> 00:56:20.425
So if you were going to get, 1, 100, well,
you're going to subtract 590 out of that.

00:56:20.455 --> 00:56:23.595
And that's what your net benefits going
to be, which is pretty substantial.

00:56:23.625 --> 00:56:27.465
And there's a lot of philosophicals
wise and how they got to where they are,

00:56:27.705 --> 00:56:30.615
but it's something that, when they talk
about fairness, they say, well, that's

00:56:30.615 --> 00:56:32.675
not fair because I qualified for that.

00:56:32.705 --> 00:56:33.585
I earned that money.

00:56:33.585 --> 00:56:34.645
So why am I getting.

00:56:34.700 --> 00:56:38.960
That reduced because I have another
job in which I'm getting a pension for.

00:56:39.020 --> 00:56:39.200
Yeah.

00:56:39.415 --> 00:56:39.715
Louie: Yep.

00:56:40.315 --> 00:56:44.765
And I think that the biggest takeaway,
and I know that's a lot of high

00:56:44.765 --> 00:56:47.575
level financial conversations that
we're having here, but at the end

00:56:47.575 --> 00:56:49.005
of the day, just to kind of simplify

00:56:49.005 --> 00:56:52.045
people that have paid into social
security through another career, part

00:56:52.045 --> 00:56:56.875
time job, like John said, they are
getting penalized because they now are

00:56:56.875 --> 00:56:58.345
in a career where they have a pension.

00:56:58.355 --> 00:57:02.115
So even though we don't pay into
social security now, we think it's

00:57:02.115 --> 00:57:04.175
unfair that you are being penalized.

00:57:04.445 --> 00:57:07.035
Your social security benefits
are being penalized because

00:57:07.055 --> 00:57:08.875
you now have a pensionable job.

00:57:09.195 --> 00:57:15.180
If you paid into it, in a past career or
through part time work or something, we

00:57:15.200 --> 00:57:18.680
think that you're entitled to that social
security benefit and the international

00:57:18.680 --> 00:57:23.010
association of firefighters thinks that
you are also entitled to that benefit.

00:57:23.350 --> 00:57:25.420
And so we don't want to see
our members have reduced.

00:57:26.225 --> 00:57:28.425
Social Security benefits that
they've worked hard for and

00:57:28.477 --> 00:57:29.181
Jon: Social security benefits that they've

00:57:29.204 --> 00:57:29.734
Louie: they've earned.

00:57:29.934 --> 00:57:34.524
So this this is not to try to get us a
new benefit because we're firefighters.

00:57:34.804 --> 00:57:39.274
No, all we're trying to do with this
Social Security Fairness Act is give

00:57:39.274 --> 00:57:41.854
our members what's due to them when
they've paid into Social Security.

00:57:41.854 --> 00:57:45.314
It's not right that we are getting
penalized because we now have a pension.

00:57:45.624 --> 00:57:48.574
If we've earned the Social
Security benefit, Then we should

00:57:48.574 --> 00:57:49.844
get that social security benefit.

00:57:50.044 --> 00:57:53.424
That's what this whole act is about and
there's you know, there's the windfall

00:57:53.424 --> 00:57:55.924
elimination provision I don't know how
deep you want to get into it But it it

00:57:55.934 --> 00:57:58.734
basically is the same thing if you if
you have a spouse that worked in and

00:57:58.844 --> 00:58:01.154
Jon: Oh, you're talking about
the GPO, the government pension

00:58:01.264 --> 00:58:01.424
Louie: right.

00:58:01.424 --> 00:58:05.024
I'm, sorry the government pension offset
if you have a spouse that's worked into it

00:58:05.224 --> 00:58:12.396
you also get penalized and you're not able
to collect because you have a Yeah, and

00:58:12.619 --> 00:58:15.169
Jon: And this is, yeah, and
this is one of them, honestly.

00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:19.699
So just to go back just a hair, so how
many people does this actually affect?

00:58:19.759 --> 00:58:24.659
So according to the social security
research and what they publish, it's about

00:58:24.869 --> 00:58:26.849
two point, I think the last one was 2.

00:58:26.849 --> 00:58:30.299
3 million people is who it affects for the
WEP, the windfall elimination provision,

00:58:30.709 --> 00:58:32.839
the GPO, the government pension Offset.

00:58:32.839 --> 00:58:35.009
It's a smaller subset of the population.

00:58:35.009 --> 00:58:38.779
It's only about 750, 000 people that
it affects, but honestly, I think this

00:58:38.789 --> 00:58:42.689
is going to affect firefighters and
our members more than the windfall

00:58:42.689 --> 00:58:46.769
elimination provision, because what
we're seeing right now is a lot more

00:58:46.819 --> 00:58:49.649
dual income earners that we're hiring it.

00:58:49.659 --> 00:58:54.519
the days of having someone stay at home
and not have another income at some point

00:58:54.519 --> 00:58:56.649
in their career, those are going away.

00:58:56.649 --> 00:58:58.349
And the majority of the members

00:58:58.429 --> 00:58:59.849
Louie: like in the
denver metro area, right?

00:58:59.849 --> 00:59:00.279
Like you gotta

00:59:00.334 --> 00:59:02.624
Jon: really tough to afford
it on just one income.

00:59:02.624 --> 00:59:06.254
So what this does is, and this is,
I'm speaking from personal experiences

00:59:06.254 --> 00:59:08.014
is Louie would be affected from this.

00:59:08.014 --> 00:59:10.864
I know a lot of our members who have
come up to me and they're like, man,

00:59:10.864 --> 00:59:14.364
this really sucks, but so how the
government pension offset works.

00:59:14.364 --> 00:59:17.584
So, I'll use, we'll just
use a a hypothetical.

00:59:17.764 --> 00:59:20.784
So you are married to someone
that was a high income earner,

00:59:20.794 --> 00:59:22.124
whatever profession they had.

00:59:22.444 --> 00:59:25.724
And let's just say that their
benefit your spouse's benefit was

00:59:25.724 --> 00:59:30.274
going to be 4, 000 when they reached
the age 67 full retirement age.

00:59:30.274 --> 00:59:30.554
Right.

00:59:31.594 --> 00:59:36.064
You will allow to claim as the, as
their spouse, half of their benefit

00:59:36.214 --> 00:59:37.704
once they start drawing on that.

00:59:37.704 --> 00:59:44.094
So I would be or whoever this hypothetical
firefighter would be entitled to 2000 or

00:59:44.094 --> 00:59:49.834
50 percent of that 4, 000 benefit, which
is a lot of money, which is significant.

00:59:50.094 --> 00:59:55.179
What the GPO does is it, Takes
your pension and then it takes

00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:56.529
two thirds of your pension.

00:59:56.739 --> 01:00:00.059
So once again, let's just say,
hypothetically here I was going to

01:00:00.059 --> 01:00:03.839
be entitled to, let's say it was
a 60, 000 a year pension, right?

01:00:03.839 --> 01:00:06.389
So I'm going to be
getting 5, 000 All right.

01:00:06.399 --> 01:00:11.389
So that, so two thirds of 5, 000, I
probably should have used something

01:00:11.389 --> 01:00:15.279
that was a little bit more, it's going
to be a little over what call it?

01:00:15.279 --> 01:00:16.619
Three grand ish.

01:00:17.759 --> 01:00:19.499
It's going to be a little over

01:00:19.584 --> 01:00:21.764
Louie: 300.

01:00:21.789 --> 01:00:22.119
Jon: Yep.

01:00:22.129 --> 01:00:26.079
So in that circumstance, My spousal
benefit would have been 2, 000

01:00:26.089 --> 01:00:28.029
from social security from my wife.

01:00:28.289 --> 01:00:33.409
They're going to take two thirds of that
5, 000, which is 3, 300 because that 3,

01:00:33.409 --> 01:00:36.209
300 is higher than my spousal benefit.

01:00:36.569 --> 01:00:37.059
I ain't getting

01:00:37.074 --> 01:00:37.474
Louie: getting shit, I'm getting

01:00:37.749 --> 01:00:38.729
Jon: I'm getting nothing.

01:00:39.169 --> 01:00:42.329
And that is where a lot of
our members are going to be.

01:00:42.379 --> 01:00:46.799
They're not going to be entitled to any
spousal benefit because they have a non

01:00:46.829 --> 01:00:48.329
covered pension through social security.

01:00:48.329 --> 01:00:49.039
You didn't pay into social

01:00:49.224 --> 01:00:51.484
Louie: though if they were in this
exact same situation, but they

01:00:51.484 --> 01:00:55.444
weren't firefighters, they were
just in a regular job or something,

01:00:55.534 --> 01:00:56.784
they would get that benefit.

01:00:56.784 --> 01:00:58.334
They are entitled to that benefit.

01:00:58.724 --> 01:01:02.769
So it's really like this, penalty
that is unique to our profession

01:01:02.819 --> 01:01:03.969
and it just, it's not fair.

01:01:03.969 --> 01:01:04.959
It doesn't, it's not right.

01:01:05.439 --> 01:01:07.419
Jon: And so that's where,
so that's where it stands.

01:01:07.419 --> 01:01:11.589
So, in a historical vote it
got through Congress and it was

01:01:11.589 --> 01:01:13.069
like 300 congressional members

01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:15.839
Louie: lot of bipartisan support
both sides of the aisle, one

01:01:15.849 --> 01:01:18.469
Jon: of the biggest things that's
gotten through Congress in years.

01:01:18.849 --> 01:01:21.609
And now it sits with the Senate.

01:01:22.004 --> 01:01:27.624
And we just had so today's December 12th
We had a lot of different union members

01:01:27.624 --> 01:01:31.964
go out to washington yesterday, december
11th Old ed zode kelly was there at the

01:01:31.964 --> 01:01:34.634
foot of the capital our own principal

01:01:34.879 --> 01:01:35.839
Louie: Even more important.

01:01:35.839 --> 01:01:37.999
Reid and Mike Mul

01:01:38.234 --> 01:01:42.524
Jon: We're out there representing the
membership in the iff And showing a a

01:01:42.664 --> 01:01:46.564
form of solidarity the teachers unions
were out there the police officers unions

01:01:46.564 --> 01:01:50.464
were out there Basically just saying
like right now it sits with the senate.

01:01:50.724 --> 01:01:54.169
We just want you guys to call a vote
You Just tell us if you support it

01:01:54.169 --> 01:01:58.569
or not, if you support us or not, put
it on the floor and God bless Chuck,

01:01:58.629 --> 01:02:03.169
Chuck Schumer came out there in the
driving sleet in Washington, DC and

01:02:03.169 --> 01:02:04.789
said, we're going to call it to a vote.

01:02:04.949 --> 01:02:10.239
So sometime between now, December 12th
and December 20th, which will be the last

01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:12.129
day that the congressional members meet.

01:02:12.274 --> 01:02:13.264
They're going to vote on it.

01:02:13.504 --> 01:02:17.684
So we will have, I will promise you
this in our January episode, we will

01:02:17.684 --> 01:02:21.124
have a report back to say whether
or not this thing is repealed.

01:02:21.134 --> 01:02:23.644
And honestly, there's a lot of
people on the fence right now.

01:02:23.644 --> 01:02:26.054
This is the difference
between being able to retire.

01:02:26.634 --> 01:02:30.564
Maybe now or I'm gonna have to work
another couple of years because I was

01:02:30.564 --> 01:02:34.154
not planning on this But now this thing
came into play and now I'm gonna get this

01:02:34.154 --> 01:02:38.584
benefit it's huge from a planning aspect
from all sorts of different things So

01:02:38.844 --> 01:02:42.134
there's a lot of people that are staring
down the barrel right now of retirement

01:02:42.144 --> 01:02:46.574
that are you know Intimately focused on
where this is and also our retirees that

01:02:46.574 --> 01:02:50.484
are not getting the benefit right now This
could be life changing money for them,

01:02:50.654 --> 01:02:54.314
moving forward So we just wanted to at
least bring that to everyone's attention

01:02:54.594 --> 01:02:58.484
and it sounds like the vote is going to
get called we will report back here in

01:02:58.484 --> 01:03:03.414
january to see whether or not The social
security fairness act has in fact passed

01:03:03.424 --> 01:03:05.224
if it goes to biden, he'll sign it.

01:03:05.244 --> 01:03:07.534
He's going to sign it so we'll
just see what happens with

01:03:07.789 --> 01:03:08.759
Louie: keep our fingers crossed

01:03:08.914 --> 01:03:09.404
Jon: our fingers

01:03:09.949 --> 01:03:10.249
Louie: hope.

01:03:10.249 --> 01:03:14.394
You guys might have seen emails from
union emails that talk about COVID.

01:03:14.484 --> 01:03:16.074
Making phone calls and stuff like that.

01:03:16.074 --> 01:03:20.054
So whenever those emails come out and
you can support by sending an email or

01:03:20.314 --> 01:03:21.204
Jon: Make it a phone call.

01:03:21.314 --> 01:03:24.754
Louie: leaving a voicemail, that does
help because if, if we flood those

01:03:25.144 --> 01:03:30.394
senators or congressmen's inboxes with
tens of thousands or hopefully hundreds

01:03:30.394 --> 01:03:34.899
of thousands of emails, Calls and emails
then all of a sudden they know wow we have

01:03:34.899 --> 01:03:38.059
a our constituents really are they care
about this They're passionate about it.

01:03:38.059 --> 01:03:42.069
So it looks good, but I think the
bigger takeaway About this whole

01:03:42.309 --> 01:03:46.619
conversation that we just had is that
your union is looking out for you We

01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:51.859
work really hard at local 1309 to make
sure that our members are taken care

01:03:51.859 --> 01:03:54.259
of and that happens at the local level

01:03:54.689 --> 01:03:58.454
With our You know, things that
we fight for and work with our

01:03:58.454 --> 01:04:00.054
management to secure for you guys.

01:04:00.594 --> 01:04:04.324
It's at the state level when
we do lobbying and get involved

01:04:04.324 --> 01:04:05.324
in elections and stuff.

01:04:05.684 --> 01:04:07.344
And then it also happens
at the national level.

01:04:07.374 --> 01:04:13.134
We big thanks, big shout out to Mike
and read who had to, travel to DC and,

01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:14.194
Jon: C.

01:04:14.194 --> 01:04:19.467
They're out there because they care about

01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:20.969
Louie: there because
they care about you guys.

01:04:20.969 --> 01:04:25.079
That's honestly, truthfully, I know it
sounds cheesy, but they care about you

01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:29.829
guys enough the members of local 1309
and firefighters everywhere, right?

01:04:29.849 --> 01:04:33.129
Every, every firefighter in the
CPFF and every union firefighter,

01:04:33.419 --> 01:04:36.859
they care about them enough that
they're out there given their time to

01:04:37.219 --> 01:04:40.179
Make it known that this is a concern
make it known to our politicians

01:04:40.189 --> 01:04:42.239
that this is something that we
care about and that we think is

01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:43.579
unfair and that we want to change.

01:04:43.589 --> 01:04:45.459
So we're fighting for you guys.

01:04:45.649 --> 01:04:49.169
And I know, that I know our members
know that we just want to harp on it.

01:04:49.189 --> 01:04:51.659
We just want to toot our own
horn, I guess, because we think

01:04:51.659 --> 01:04:55.519
that this can make a lifesaving
difference to a lot of our members.

01:04:55.949 --> 01:04:58.189
And we know you guys work hard
for your money and we want

01:04:58.189 --> 01:04:59.209
to help you keep more of it.

01:04:59.209 --> 01:04:59.739
So this

01:04:59.804 --> 01:05:02.354
Jon: was thinking about, I was
trying to do the math on that.

01:05:02.364 --> 01:05:04.654
So, you know, it's always like how
much effort I'm going to put in,

01:05:04.664 --> 01:05:07.644
sending one email, like literally
takes less than 15 seconds.

01:05:07.644 --> 01:05:08.964
Cause it's already auto generated.

01:05:09.284 --> 01:05:11.384
And I was trying to think
about my circumstance.

01:05:11.424 --> 01:05:15.294
If I was going to be entitled to that
1, 500 a month for 30 years, cause I'm

01:05:15.294 --> 01:05:17.394
going to collect, I mean, I'm like, You

01:05:17.489 --> 01:05:18.179
Louie: to make that email.

01:05:18.179 --> 01:05:18.699
I got to send that

01:05:18.744 --> 01:05:19.824
Jon: got to send that email.

01:05:19.834 --> 01:05:21.594
So yeah, well said Louie.

01:05:21.604 --> 01:05:24.914
And on that last note, I think the
last closing I guess a point of

01:05:24.914 --> 01:05:28.444
personal privilege would be is to
we already talked about, being the

01:05:28.444 --> 01:05:32.094
holiday season and thanking all those
folks around us and being grateful.

01:05:32.274 --> 01:05:36.024
One of the things that I know I
speak for myself and Louie and all

01:05:36.024 --> 01:05:39.904
the other executive board members
of 1309 and really firefighters

01:05:39.934 --> 01:05:42.154
across the nation is Mike Frenier.

01:05:42.399 --> 01:05:46.989
And his service he just had his ringing
out last Saturday, his retirement parties

01:05:46.989 --> 01:05:51.759
coming up on this coming Saturday 38
years of service to the, yep, to the

01:05:51.759 --> 01:05:53.819
citizens and the members of West Metro.

01:05:53.819 --> 01:05:56.699
And has been a strong
advocate for unionism.

01:05:56.699 --> 01:06:00.319
He will continue to serve with the
ninth district for the next four years,

01:06:00.339 --> 01:06:02.159
representing all those glorious States.

01:06:02.159 --> 01:06:03.859
And just a huge thanks to Mike.

01:06:03.869 --> 01:06:06.579
I can't imagine how much
time has been missed.

01:06:06.634 --> 01:06:10.754
From his family and his endeavors to
try to better the organization, not

01:06:10.754 --> 01:06:14.334
just West Metro, but at the state
level and now at the national level.

01:06:14.604 --> 01:06:15.604
And well done.

01:06:15.694 --> 01:06:16.494
Well done, sir.

01:06:16.494 --> 01:06:17.414
We're super proud of you.

01:06:17.464 --> 01:06:21.424
I'm sure hope we'll see him around
and that's a long episode guys.

01:06:21.454 --> 01:06:23.254
Hopefully some of that was lighthearted.

01:06:23.434 --> 01:06:24.584
There was some good questions.

01:06:24.584 --> 01:06:26.874
Hopefully that will help
lead to more questions.

01:06:26.924 --> 01:06:28.824
That's what we're doing is we'll just.

01:06:29.314 --> 01:06:32.564
Through through this, we'll get
better educated and make better

01:06:32.564 --> 01:06:36.314
decisions and hopefully get to
enjoy those prime golden years

01:06:36.609 --> 01:06:36.969
Louie: sir.

01:06:37.414 --> 01:06:38.514
Jon: sooner rather than later.

01:06:38.514 --> 01:06:40.414
So happy holidays to everyone.

01:06:40.574 --> 01:06:43.804
Thanks Louie, as always for being
my partner in this endeavor.

01:06:43.814 --> 01:06:45.884
Thanks for all the members
who have reached out.

01:06:45.934 --> 01:06:50.484
It really does bring Louie and I
a lot of personal satisfaction and

01:06:50.484 --> 01:06:52.084
motivation to continue on with this.

01:06:52.094 --> 01:06:53.124
So thanks to everyone.

01:06:53.814 --> 01:06:54.674
Happy Holidays.

01:06:54.774 --> 01:06:56.284
Louie: Merry Christmas and
we'll see you in the new year.

01:06:56.424 --> 01:06:59.824
The Fiscal Firehouse Podcast is
a podcast curated specifically

01:06:59.834 --> 01:07:01.544
for local 1309 members.

01:07:01.694 --> 01:07:05.334
This podcast is for informational
and educational purposes only,

01:07:05.734 --> 01:07:08.464
and should not be construed as
professional financial advice.

01:07:08.674 --> 01:07:11.394
Should you need professional
advice, consult a licensed

01:07:11.514 --> 01:07:13.914
financial advisor or tax advisor.

01:07:14.094 --> 01:07:17.944
The opinions of John Beatty, Louie
Barela, and their castmates are

01:07:17.944 --> 01:07:21.414
solely their own, and don't reflect
that of West Metro Fire Rescue.