1 00:00:00,300 --> 00:00:01,620 Speaker: Welcome to Honest Money. 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:05,910 I'm your host, Anja, and today's episode is brought to you by hard block. 3 00:00:12,094 --> 00:00:14,644 Anja: Welcome back to another episode of Honest Money. 4 00:00:14,644 --> 00:00:16,714 Joining me today is Scott Dedels. 5 00:00:16,744 --> 00:00:20,284 You guys might be familiar with Scott because he's the author 6 00:00:20,284 --> 00:00:23,704 of, uh, a number of books now, actually, second Book, I believe. 7 00:00:23,704 --> 00:00:26,044 He's, um, due to be released very soon. 8 00:00:26,044 --> 00:00:28,834 And he's also the co co-founder of Block Rewards. 9 00:00:29,344 --> 00:00:30,964 Welcome to Honest Money Scott. 10 00:00:31,684 --> 00:00:32,254 Scott: Thanks for having me. 11 00:00:33,124 --> 00:00:33,899 It's a pleasure to be here. 12 00:00:35,089 --> 00:00:35,479 Anja: Yay. 13 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,319 That's awesome. 14 00:00:36,709 --> 00:00:41,119 Um, so anyone, I assume most of my listeners will know you, but for anyone 15 00:00:41,119 --> 00:00:44,719 hearing about you for the first time, uh, I'd love to know a little bit 16 00:00:44,719 --> 00:00:45,924 more about your journey into Bitcoin. 17 00:00:46,984 --> 00:00:51,214 Scott: Sure I started, uh, I was a Bitcoin class of 2020, so I guess that 18 00:00:51,214 --> 00:00:53,464 makes me a medium late to the party. 19 00:00:53,524 --> 00:00:57,994 Um, I was, I came from a background in the world of benefits and 20 00:00:57,994 --> 00:01:02,794 pensions and uh, was working in that field in the lockdown of 2020. 21 00:01:02,794 --> 00:01:04,144 And I lived in Canada. 22 00:01:04,294 --> 00:01:08,884 Canada was a very locked down place during that time, and the government 23 00:01:08,884 --> 00:01:12,904 here just really intervened by printing an absurd amount of money. 24 00:01:13,144 --> 00:01:16,774 And, uh, I thought I, you know, I had, I had taken all the courses, I'd 25 00:01:16,774 --> 00:01:20,434 been 15 years kind of in the industry and I thought I knew what money was 26 00:01:20,524 --> 00:01:24,184 and I was actually not even really interested in Bitcoin When I found it. 27 00:01:24,184 --> 00:01:27,064 I, I became interested in money printing and, uh, you know, 28 00:01:27,064 --> 00:01:28,504 like, as it as it happened. 29 00:01:28,504 --> 00:01:32,434 So I, I spent the early part of the COVID lockdown, sort of reading mees and 30 00:01:32,434 --> 00:01:35,134 rothbard and uh, and sound money stuff. 31 00:01:35,404 --> 00:01:37,084 And, uh, eventually. 32 00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:40,489 Amazon recommended me The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth, which is one 33 00:01:40,489 --> 00:01:44,509 of my favorite Bitcoin books, which is so interesting because it really isn't 34 00:01:44,509 --> 00:01:46,009 even explicitly a book about Bitcoin. 35 00:01:46,009 --> 00:01:47,989 It's a book about deflation and technology. 36 00:01:48,499 --> 00:01:50,269 That book just completely blew my mind. 37 00:01:50,269 --> 00:01:53,449 I read it immediately again after the first time I read it. 38 00:01:54,424 --> 00:01:55,894 Uh, yeah. 39 00:01:55,924 --> 00:01:59,614 Uh, and then from there it was really just a, a like super progressive journey. 40 00:01:59,614 --> 00:02:02,344 I think Bitcoin is a bottomless rabbit hole. 41 00:02:02,374 --> 00:02:04,024 There is something for everybody. 42 00:02:04,024 --> 00:02:08,254 You know, one of the things that I love about the subject is, um, yeah, if you, 43 00:02:08,254 --> 00:02:14,019 if you're here for hard money, you know, or technology, economics, politics, 44 00:02:14,024 --> 00:02:15,634 Bitcoin has something for everyone. 45 00:02:17,029 --> 00:02:18,499 Anja: I love that and I love that. 46 00:02:18,499 --> 00:02:21,739 And, but I wanna go a little bit back to Scott's early life. 47 00:02:21,739 --> 00:02:23,869 What is your first memory of money? 48 00:02:25,189 --> 00:02:25,669 Scott: Oh wow. 49 00:02:26,299 --> 00:02:31,399 Um, my family were a family of savers and I remember very vividly 50 00:02:31,399 --> 00:02:36,319 my mom taking me to the bank to open up, uh, a bank account, a savings 51 00:02:36,319 --> 00:02:37,699 account when I was maybe seven. 52 00:02:38,179 --> 00:02:40,789 And back then you would, um. 53 00:02:41,989 --> 00:02:45,109 There was like a little booklet that was like maybe four inches by four 54 00:02:45,109 --> 00:02:48,859 inches and they would put it through a special machine to print the transaction 55 00:02:48,859 --> 00:02:52,759 history on it, and I was learning about compound interest for my mom. 56 00:02:53,389 --> 00:02:55,699 Uh, so that's kinda my first, my first memory. 57 00:02:55,699 --> 00:02:59,929 We had rules around, uh, if we got gifts, like cash gifts at Christmas 58 00:02:59,929 --> 00:03:02,479 or on our birthdays, a certain portion of it had to be saved. 59 00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:07,489 And, uh, and then we would go into the bank to update our, 60 00:03:07,519 --> 00:03:08,749 uh, our interest payments. 61 00:03:08,779 --> 00:03:11,929 And, and so she was teaching me about the value of saving and interest very early. 62 00:03:12,564 --> 00:03:13,644 And that was about the extent of it. 63 00:03:13,644 --> 00:03:17,604 We didn't really, uh, get into investing or, or, uh, much 64 00:03:17,604 --> 00:03:18,954 beyond that in our, in our house. 65 00:03:19,044 --> 00:03:19,674 Anja: Love that. 66 00:03:19,674 --> 00:03:23,994 And a lot of the women that I speak to in our community, um, obviously 67 00:03:24,024 --> 00:03:27,564 every like avid savers and that's why they like Bitcoin so much 68 00:03:27,564 --> 00:03:29,244 because they don't wanna invest. 69 00:03:29,244 --> 00:03:30,534 They would literally wanna save. 70 00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:34,554 Um, but was there a specific moment with Bitcoin where it 71 00:03:34,554 --> 00:03:36,234 kind of just clicked in for you? 72 00:03:37,654 --> 00:03:38,674 Scott: I had a few. 73 00:03:38,914 --> 00:03:42,964 So it wasn't like I, you know, I think, and this is true for a lot of 74 00:03:42,964 --> 00:03:46,024 people, it wasn't like I, the light bulb went off and it was like this 75 00:03:46,024 --> 00:03:49,774 binary moment where all of a sudden I completely understood Bitcoin. 76 00:03:49,834 --> 00:03:52,444 You know, after reading the price of tomorrow, I became interested in the 77 00:03:52,444 --> 00:03:56,854 technology and like my first real aha moment was like, oh wow, this is a very. 78 00:03:57,364 --> 00:03:59,434 Actually substantial subject. 79 00:03:59,464 --> 00:04:02,164 And there's some really interesting work going on here. 80 00:04:02,434 --> 00:04:05,134 And I think like, this is when people sort of pass through the portal 81 00:04:05,134 --> 00:04:09,124 of realizing that Bitcoin is just more than a magic internet money. 82 00:04:09,454 --> 00:04:14,294 You know, there's, there's, there's really a lot to it, but I. Yeah, a even 83 00:04:14,294 --> 00:04:19,784 after that realization, I spent sort of 2020 and 2021 still kind of dabbling 84 00:04:19,784 --> 00:04:24,044 in all coins and thinking that, you know, part of what I had come from 85 00:04:24,044 --> 00:04:27,524 with this background in pensions and traditional financial planning was the 86 00:04:27,524 --> 00:04:30,404 notion of, um, you know, portfolio. 87 00:04:30,934 --> 00:04:33,154 Balancing your positions inside a portfolio. 88 00:04:33,214 --> 00:04:34,834 And I was definitely caught up in that. 89 00:04:34,834 --> 00:04:38,374 I thought that, you know, Bitcoin needed to be the biggest part of a, of 90 00:04:38,374 --> 00:04:40,864 a crypto portfolio, whatever that means. 91 00:04:41,194 --> 00:04:47,674 And uh, and so I actually, um, experienced what became a very painful 92 00:04:47,674 --> 00:04:52,864 loss in the collapse of the Terra Luna ecosystem at the end of, uh, whenever 93 00:04:52,864 --> 00:04:55,384 that was, I think it was early 2022. 94 00:04:55,924 --> 00:04:59,704 And, uh, I had kinda like, you know, being through that 95 00:04:59,764 --> 00:05:01,624 2020 and 2021 were wild times. 96 00:05:01,624 --> 00:05:06,244 Like that was a really, you know, compared to this last cycle, it was a really, uh, 97 00:05:06,394 --> 00:05:11,224 you know, exciting bull market and, you know, stuff was moving, doubling, tripling 98 00:05:11,224 --> 00:05:13,354 in prices in days or weeks, sometimes. 99 00:05:14,299 --> 00:05:17,959 Anyways, uh, at the, at the end of that, when, uh, when, when the Ukraine 100 00:05:17,959 --> 00:05:22,699 war started and the market started to turn, I basically, I made a decision 101 00:05:22,699 --> 00:05:27,559 that I was gonna split my, my holdings between Bitcoin and the Terra Luna stable 102 00:05:27,559 --> 00:05:31,159 coin, which was, um, yielding like 11%. 103 00:05:31,369 --> 00:05:35,209 And so in my mind I kind of had this, you know, almost like a bond portfolio, 104 00:05:35,209 --> 00:05:41,359 like a really defensive strategy and then in spectacular fashion, um, it 105 00:05:41,359 --> 00:05:43,219 went to zero, like overnight and. 106 00:05:43,969 --> 00:05:50,449 That actually that happening, um, was really made me understand the difference 107 00:05:50,449 --> 00:05:54,259 between Bitcoin and everything else in terms of its durability, both 108 00:05:54,259 --> 00:05:56,119 as a technology but as an asset. 109 00:05:56,719 --> 00:05:59,809 And, uh, and I really had to, I really had to experience that. 110 00:05:59,929 --> 00:06:01,879 Uh, and that was my Bitcoin only moment. 111 00:06:01,879 --> 00:06:06,739 And it actually then became my moment of really wanting to get 112 00:06:06,739 --> 00:06:08,509 involved in helping other people. 113 00:06:09,004 --> 00:06:11,614 Understand what I'd learned without them having to personally 114 00:06:11,614 --> 00:06:12,694 experience it themselves. 115 00:06:13,174 --> 00:06:17,494 So it, you know, the, that, that moment was a, was became a driving 116 00:06:17,494 --> 00:06:22,444 force for me in co-founding block rewards in writing the books, uh, you 117 00:06:22,444 --> 00:06:23,824 know, getting involved with events. 118 00:06:23,824 --> 00:06:27,724 Like I just, um, I got a tremendous amount of satisfaction in my 119 00:06:27,724 --> 00:06:29,074 financial services career. 120 00:06:29,689 --> 00:06:32,539 Helping people navigate subjects that they just don't know a lot about. 121 00:06:32,659 --> 00:06:36,559 And I think Bitcoin is really one of those because it can take a lot 122 00:06:36,559 --> 00:06:39,889 of energy and effort and there's a lot of bad information out there. 123 00:06:39,919 --> 00:06:40,489 Like it just. 124 00:06:40,999 --> 00:06:45,289 It's if you open up YouTube, um, you know, these things get served up based 125 00:06:45,289 --> 00:06:50,809 on what's popular and, uh, and so it's, it's, uh, it's a minefield for people who 126 00:06:50,809 --> 00:06:52,279 are trying to figure out where to start. 127 00:06:52,639 --> 00:06:57,619 So I, uh, I get a lot of satisfaction, uh, with, with any individual person 128 00:06:57,619 --> 00:07:01,759 that I'm able to reach and, uh, and help them, you know, sell their XRP. 129 00:07:02,959 --> 00:07:06,019 Anja: Yeah, and this is something I'm starting to be really passionate 130 00:07:06,019 --> 00:07:09,769 about because the region that I live in, in Australia, the Northern Rivers 131 00:07:10,099 --> 00:07:12,529 has quite a large alt coin community. 132 00:07:12,559 --> 00:07:16,459 And uh, again, I feel like there's that educational piece. 133 00:07:16,459 --> 00:07:20,179 There's a lot of, obviously, grift happening in the alt co coin space. 134 00:07:20,239 --> 00:07:26,539 And what do you believe is kind of the biggest, um, what, what's the biggest 135 00:07:26,539 --> 00:07:30,499 lesson we can impart on, on Alt Queen is to help them sort of see the light. 136 00:07:32,359 --> 00:07:37,669 Scott: Yeah, I mean, I try to talk to people a lot about, um, pricing assets 137 00:07:37,669 --> 00:07:39,289 in Bitcoin instead of in dollars. 138 00:07:39,619 --> 00:07:43,339 And it's a really abstract thing, but it's basically night and day if you can figure 139 00:07:43,339 --> 00:07:50,149 out why, because, uh, nothing appreciates over duration in Bitcoin terms. 140 00:07:50,659 --> 00:07:52,729 Um, if that fails. 141 00:07:53,869 --> 00:07:56,929 You know, uh, I think that it there, yeah. 142 00:07:57,349 --> 00:08:01,519 I don't know where, where I go next, but you know, people who, who own alt coins. 143 00:08:02,434 --> 00:08:06,004 Another thing I will try to talk to them about is how little you 144 00:08:06,004 --> 00:08:07,534 can actually do with an altcoin. 145 00:08:08,434 --> 00:08:11,764 You know, like what, what, what are people actually using it for? 146 00:08:11,854 --> 00:08:17,044 And, uh, you, you struggle to get good answers and, uh, which is not true 147 00:08:17,044 --> 00:08:19,804 with Bitcoin, you know, like it's, it's depends on where you're living. 148 00:08:19,804 --> 00:08:23,704 But Bitcoin definitely has real world app, real world applications 149 00:08:23,704 --> 00:08:24,964 all over the world right now. 150 00:08:25,204 --> 00:08:28,294 And I think depending on where you live, those applications 151 00:08:28,294 --> 00:08:29,374 are a little bit different, but. 152 00:08:30,004 --> 00:08:31,684 It is something that is being used. 153 00:08:31,684 --> 00:08:33,544 It is a viral idea. 154 00:08:33,544 --> 00:08:37,864 It's a technology that is, you know, being adopted and accelerated. 155 00:08:38,764 --> 00:08:42,364 Those would be kinda like my, you know, things I try to impart on 156 00:08:42,364 --> 00:08:45,514 people in, in 15 minutes before they, you know, start tuning me out. 157 00:08:47,016 --> 00:08:50,376 Speaker 2: Quick one for the Aussies listening hard block is offering 158 00:08:50,376 --> 00:08:53,076 a $10 signup discount right now. 159 00:08:53,316 --> 00:08:56,826 And if you're with another exchange, ask yourself this. 160 00:08:57,156 --> 00:09:00,786 Are they Australia's longest running Bitcoin only exchange? 161 00:09:00,996 --> 00:09:03,426 Because if not, maybe it's time to switch. 162 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:10,836 Head to hard block.com au slash join slash Honest Money and 163 00:09:10,836 --> 00:09:12,756 start stacking stats today. 164 00:09:15,234 --> 00:09:15,804 Anja: I love it. 165 00:09:15,804 --> 00:09:16,284 I love it. 166 00:09:16,734 --> 00:09:20,124 Um, but how would you say Bitcoin has changed the way you think 167 00:09:20,124 --> 00:09:21,714 about money and life in general? 168 00:09:23,483 --> 00:09:24,083 Scott: Uh, yeah. 169 00:09:24,113 --> 00:09:28,283 So it's changed both of those things, you know, pretty fundamentally I 170 00:09:28,283 --> 00:09:32,363 would say what I experienced when I really started to understand Bitcoin. 171 00:09:33,023 --> 00:09:37,223 Was what I describe in the Dow of Bitcoin as a widening of the present moment. 172 00:09:37,493 --> 00:09:41,093 And I didn't have the words to put it to it at the time, and it 173 00:09:41,093 --> 00:09:42,473 wasn't like a conscious thing. 174 00:09:42,503 --> 00:09:49,493 It was more of just like, uh, a slow awareness that, um, what I wasn't doing 175 00:09:49,493 --> 00:09:51,533 anymore and what I wasn't doing anymore. 176 00:09:51,868 --> 00:09:55,948 Was worrying about the future and, you know, regretting over the past 177 00:09:55,948 --> 00:10:01,108 decisions and, you know, I, I attribute that to, uh, a sense of tranquility 178 00:10:01,108 --> 00:10:06,298 that accompanies owning an asset that is going to be durable over time. 179 00:10:06,568 --> 00:10:12,388 And if, if you believe in that, uh, it's really quite freeing because you 180 00:10:12,388 --> 00:10:16,708 know Bitcoin, you know, who knows what it's gonna do in terms of like price 181 00:10:16,708 --> 00:10:18,418 appreciation or value in the future. 182 00:10:18,658 --> 00:10:20,698 But the general notion is. 183 00:10:21,578 --> 00:10:26,468 We spend a lot of brain power in our day-to-day lives trying to think about 184 00:10:26,468 --> 00:10:31,058 or engineer new ways of multiplying our money faster than it's melting. 185 00:10:31,928 --> 00:10:36,368 And so if your money just doesn't melt, then you can actually have all 186 00:10:36,368 --> 00:10:41,348 of that brain space back and just think about living your life, which, 187 00:10:41,348 --> 00:10:43,508 uh, is a really important thing. 188 00:10:43,538 --> 00:10:46,658 You know, like I think that part of the reason, there are 189 00:10:46,658 --> 00:10:49,568 some people that generally genuinely want to be really rich. 190 00:10:50,213 --> 00:10:51,863 I actually don't think that's everybody. 191 00:10:51,923 --> 00:10:56,393 I think that most people really want autonomy over their time, and they 192 00:10:56,393 --> 00:11:01,943 really want the ability to do what makes them happy and, you know, spend as much 193 00:11:01,943 --> 00:11:03,443 time as possible with people they love. 194 00:11:04,433 --> 00:11:12,743 Like this is kind of like the meaning of life and the, the more convoluted and 195 00:11:12,743 --> 00:11:18,488 complicated, uh, financial investment, wealth strategies become, the more 196 00:11:18,518 --> 00:11:21,882 time they occupy, you know, and that's less time for the other stuff. 197 00:11:22,422 --> 00:11:26,862 So I think that Bitcoin provides people a really beautiful simplicity 198 00:11:27,042 --> 00:11:30,492 where it's, it's solved this problem. 199 00:11:30,582 --> 00:11:34,512 The problem melting money is actually pretty simple when you understand it, but 200 00:11:34,542 --> 00:11:38,352 the solution to that problem can be as complicated or as simple as you make it. 201 00:11:38,802 --> 00:11:42,132 So for me, and this is why I don't necessarily care. 202 00:11:42,642 --> 00:11:47,112 About how fast the Bitcoin price goes to whatever people think it might go to. 203 00:11:47,832 --> 00:11:53,832 Um, what I do believe in is that the value I have stored today will be safely 204 00:11:53,832 --> 00:11:58,272 stored into the future at some moment where I wanna turn it back into, you 205 00:11:58,272 --> 00:12:00,402 know, time and energy that I can consume. 206 00:12:01,182 --> 00:12:06,162 And, um, while I'm on that journey, I'm, I'm gonna just continue 207 00:12:06,162 --> 00:12:07,752 to use that as my savings tool. 208 00:12:08,022 --> 00:12:10,632 You know, you mentioned this kind of earlier in the conversation, but. 209 00:12:11,697 --> 00:12:15,297 I actually think, you know, one of the things that has happened, particularly 210 00:12:15,297 --> 00:12:20,847 over the last, sort of 20 years since say, the great financial crisis of 2008 is 211 00:12:21,207 --> 00:12:28,827 we've sort of hybridized the concepts of investing and gambling and, uh, portfolios 212 00:12:28,827 --> 00:12:30,897 have had to get increasingly more risky. 213 00:12:30,987 --> 00:12:35,307 Our culture has changed so that people aren't really that excited anymore about, 214 00:12:35,847 --> 00:12:37,737 you know, seven, getting 7% a year. 215 00:12:37,737 --> 00:12:40,197 You can't actually get 7% a year and win. 216 00:12:40,647 --> 00:12:43,827 Because real inflation in the Western world, outside of the 217 00:12:43,827 --> 00:12:48,207 United States is probably more like 12 to 15%, like price increasing. 218 00:12:48,687 --> 00:12:50,817 So you need to do better than that. 219 00:12:50,877 --> 00:12:53,757 And to do better than that, you need to get riskier and riskier. 220 00:12:53,817 --> 00:12:57,207 So when I started in financial services, you know, like nobody even had their 221 00:12:57,207 --> 00:12:59,937 entire portfolio in, in stocks. 222 00:13:00,327 --> 00:13:02,487 You know, you'd have a mix, you'd have bonds, you'd have other, you'd have 223 00:13:02,487 --> 00:13:04,257 instrument interest-bearing instruments. 224 00:13:04,677 --> 00:13:09,837 And then that gradually changed and saving became, you know, like. 225 00:13:10,917 --> 00:13:13,977 When you're investing in the index instead of stock picking, 226 00:13:14,427 --> 00:13:15,747 and that's totally gambling. 227 00:13:15,777 --> 00:13:17,397 Like that is totally gambling. 228 00:13:18,027 --> 00:13:24,387 And so I think that, um, if people really understood that and they were, most 229 00:13:24,387 --> 00:13:29,037 people were given the choice between gambling and, and saving in the truest 230 00:13:29,037 --> 00:13:30,897 sense, they would pick the latter. 231 00:13:31,662 --> 00:13:34,212 And that's really what Bitcoin, that's one of the things that you 232 00:13:34,212 --> 00:13:38,022 can do with Bitcoin that's really beautiful is opt out of the gambling. 233 00:13:38,202 --> 00:13:43,662 And with that you get to lose the stress of gambling going wrong and 234 00:13:43,662 --> 00:13:47,622 you get to, um, have the simplicity of like just understanding really 235 00:13:47,622 --> 00:13:52,032 well what you think you're doing with the value you've accumulated so far. 236 00:13:52,152 --> 00:13:53,772 Anja: Yeah, I absolutely love that. 237 00:13:53,802 --> 00:13:58,152 And I'm curious to know, what do you think most people still 238 00:13:58,152 --> 00:14:00,012 get wrong about Bitcoin today? 239 00:14:00,597 --> 00:14:05,067 Scott: I think the, probably the biggest one in my opinion would be the idea that 240 00:14:06,267 --> 00:14:12,297 we always improve on a technology and so that that infers the likelihood that 241 00:14:12,297 --> 00:14:18,387 some other internet money technology will come subsequently and displaced Bitcoin 242 00:14:19,107 --> 00:14:23,697 and I have this conversation all the time because you have to be pretty deep down. 243 00:14:23,697 --> 00:14:29,022 I think like one of the things would be the, the scope of the 244 00:14:29,022 --> 00:14:33,612 physical infrastructure that has been built to secure the Bitcoin 245 00:14:33,612 --> 00:14:34,902 network all over the world. 246 00:14:34,902 --> 00:14:38,472 Like if you assembled all of the Bitcoin miners operating 247 00:14:38,472 --> 00:14:40,692 globally into a single machine. 248 00:14:41,442 --> 00:14:43,662 It would be the biggest machine in the world. 249 00:14:43,662 --> 00:14:45,822 This thing would be enormous. 250 00:14:46,062 --> 00:14:51,042 And, um, to even have like a, a, a minuscule appreciation for that, you 251 00:14:51,042 --> 00:14:55,212 need to really be pretty far down the rabbit hole and, and like even being 252 00:14:55,212 --> 00:14:59,982 able to comprehend how the Bitcoin hash power collectively is different 253 00:15:00,012 --> 00:15:02,202 than the Litecoin network hash power. 254 00:15:02,502 --> 00:15:04,362 Like these are, they're, they're just not. 255 00:15:05,097 --> 00:15:06,387 They're not even worth comparing. 256 00:15:06,567 --> 00:15:11,547 But, uh, it's a natural, it's a natural thing in humanity because basically 257 00:15:11,547 --> 00:15:15,717 everything we build, we then go on and somebody invent, invents a better widget. 258 00:15:16,047 --> 00:15:17,907 So that's, that's I think the biggest one. 259 00:15:18,267 --> 00:15:19,467 Bitcoin's a one-time event. 260 00:15:19,767 --> 00:15:23,937 We'll never be replicated and uh, we just happen to be around to see it. 261 00:15:23,937 --> 00:15:26,217 And I think there's also some kind of like, you know, maybe 262 00:15:26,217 --> 00:15:28,017 people don't want that to be true. 263 00:15:28,467 --> 00:15:36,562 And, and if it is true, then everybody has to, um, reconcile the truth 264 00:15:36,562 --> 00:15:41,152 that we all had a fair and equal opportunity to study Bitcoin earlier. 265 00:15:41,182 --> 00:15:45,772 And for whatever reason, each of us chose not to until we chose to. 266 00:15:46,312 --> 00:15:51,712 So like I had, you know, they say you kinda have like three Bitcoin 267 00:15:51,712 --> 00:15:54,682 touchpoints before you maybe, you know, take a serious look. 268 00:15:54,682 --> 00:15:56,062 And that was definitely true for me. 269 00:15:57,057 --> 00:16:02,127 Where I live now, when I, I moved here in 2011, uh, and I moved into, 270 00:16:02,187 --> 00:16:05,607 uh, an apartment building and right across the street was a, a coin 271 00:16:05,607 --> 00:16:07,227 store that was selling Bitcoin. 272 00:16:07,257 --> 00:16:09,057 They had a Bitcoin symbol in the window. 273 00:16:09,147 --> 00:16:12,357 I walked past it every day and I used to laugh myself, think like, who 274 00:16:12,357 --> 00:16:14,577 would be so stupid to buy a Bitcoin? 275 00:16:14,667 --> 00:16:19,227 And then, you know, like, I think the second touch point for me was 2017, 276 00:16:19,227 --> 00:16:23,457 and I had a coworker that was caught up in the alto altcoin, like ICO cycle. 277 00:16:24,052 --> 00:16:27,442 And then when it blew up and I hadn't participated, I, I, again, sort of 278 00:16:27,442 --> 00:16:30,832 patted myself on the back for not getting caught up in that stupid fad. 279 00:16:31,312 --> 00:16:34,612 And then it was, uh, and then it was 2020 again, and that was kind of 280 00:16:34,612 --> 00:16:36,172 when, that was round three for me. 281 00:16:36,172 --> 00:16:39,712 So, um, yeah, it's, it's a natural thing. 282 00:16:39,892 --> 00:16:44,782 Um, I think it'll be a, it'll be continue to be a painful realization 283 00:16:44,782 --> 00:16:48,802 for people, you know, as like we're, we'll get to some point when Bitcoin 284 00:16:48,802 --> 00:16:51,712 crashes from a million to 700,000 and. 285 00:16:52,467 --> 00:16:55,737 And, uh, there will still be people who don't own any and, and 286 00:16:55,737 --> 00:16:58,867 haven't spent any time to try and understand why they would want to. 287 00:17:00,327 --> 00:17:00,627 Anja: Yep. 288 00:17:00,627 --> 00:17:02,757 And more eulogies and everything like that. 289 00:17:03,717 --> 00:17:07,647 Um, but in your third time, did you feel like you needed to hear it from 290 00:17:07,647 --> 00:17:11,697 a trusted source in order for you to take a serious look at it in 2020? 291 00:17:11,937 --> 00:17:16,287 Scott: You know, I think 2020 created a lot of bitcoiners because of the money 292 00:17:16,287 --> 00:17:20,997 printing and the lockdowns, but also because as a secondary effect of that, 293 00:17:20,997 --> 00:17:22,497 people just had a lot of free time. 294 00:17:22,917 --> 00:17:26,247 And so like I spent a lot of lockdown either reading or on YouTube. 295 00:17:26,652 --> 00:17:30,912 And so it just happened to be that in that window I had more free 296 00:17:30,912 --> 00:17:32,262 time than I would normally have. 297 00:17:32,262 --> 00:17:35,202 So I read a book and then I would, I, you know, I just kinda like 298 00:17:35,202 --> 00:17:39,732 really compressed, sort of like my initial learning phase that might 299 00:17:39,732 --> 00:17:42,252 have taken a year into 10 weeks. 300 00:17:42,252 --> 00:17:45,612 So that got really that, you know, and I know I wasn't alone. 301 00:17:46,002 --> 00:17:46,722 Um. 302 00:17:48,077 --> 00:17:51,107 So, yeah, I, I think, I think how much time you have to look 303 00:17:51,107 --> 00:17:53,897 at it, uh, can make a difference certainly when you're getting going. 304 00:17:54,167 --> 00:17:57,977 I, as far as like, you know, do I trust somebody I, you know, I found a lot 305 00:17:57,977 --> 00:18:03,647 of bad people, like I was watching Bit Boy and into the crypto verse and uh, 306 00:18:03,707 --> 00:18:07,217 you know, these people who like get a lot of likes, even a lot of Engage 307 00:18:07,217 --> 00:18:09,017 studies and so you think they're, yeah. 308 00:18:09,167 --> 00:18:12,167 You think they're legitimate And uh, you know, that's another 309 00:18:12,167 --> 00:18:14,567 thing that I think people really don't understand about Bitcoin. 310 00:18:15,252 --> 00:18:17,442 Is that the, you know, you mentioned grifting, right? 311 00:18:17,442 --> 00:18:21,282 Like just a lot of the people that are talking about other stuff are being 312 00:18:21,282 --> 00:18:27,642 paid to do it and uh, so there's just an inherent gumminess about every, 313 00:18:27,642 --> 00:18:31,362 even if there was other technology in the space, which is like legitimate 314 00:18:31,362 --> 00:18:34,932 and real, it would be so hard to determine whether or not you were 315 00:18:34,932 --> 00:18:36,282 getting good information about it. 316 00:18:36,372 --> 00:18:36,882 Anja: Yeah. 317 00:18:37,422 --> 00:18:41,922 I love, I must say, I love that you spent your COVID lockdowns reading 318 00:18:41,922 --> 00:18:43,572 Austrian economics going through Roth. 319 00:18:43,877 --> 00:18:47,627 But in meers, like I feel most people were working out getting to like, 320 00:18:47,627 --> 00:18:52,367 some hobbies, but you went down to the Austrian econ hall, like, I wanna know, 321 00:18:52,367 --> 00:18:53,927 like what prompted you to do that? 322 00:18:54,317 --> 00:18:58,487 Scott: You know, it was just like, they were just pre like, so a prime, prime 323 00:18:58,487 --> 00:19:03,707 Minister Trudeau was on TV every day explaining, um, new measures, you know, 324 00:19:03,947 --> 00:19:07,667 and I was, I was part of my work tuning in every day to understand like, what 325 00:19:07,667 --> 00:19:09,827 was the new announcement for the day. 326 00:19:10,237 --> 00:19:12,727 And they just all involved printing money. 327 00:19:12,817 --> 00:19:15,187 And I'm like, who is gonna pay for all this stuff? 328 00:19:15,247 --> 00:19:18,397 And like, and then I was thinking like, you know, wait a second. 329 00:19:18,397 --> 00:19:20,377 Like how does this, how does this even work? 330 00:19:20,377 --> 00:19:24,007 Like, how's it, how, how is this even possible? 331 00:19:24,337 --> 00:19:28,117 And then I got to like, wait a second, you know, we're getting completely screwed. 332 00:19:28,567 --> 00:19:32,467 And uh, and then I spent like three years talking about inflation before. 333 00:19:33,267 --> 00:19:35,877 It, you know, people really caught up to the party. 334 00:19:35,877 --> 00:19:38,187 It was like, you know, inflation's a funny thing, right? 335 00:19:38,187 --> 00:19:41,097 Because it's not like the market or prices, like 336 00:19:41,157 --> 00:19:43,017 immediately sniff the stuff out. 337 00:19:43,017 --> 00:19:48,447 So at least up here, and I, I think it was the same in Australia, um, you know, rare 338 00:19:48,447 --> 00:19:50,487 and desirable assets, things like housing. 339 00:19:50,517 --> 00:19:56,157 They, they first, they were the first sort of line of defense in, in seeing like, uh, 340 00:19:56,157 --> 00:20:00,537 asset price, inflation and, you know, food and, and general cost of living stuff. 341 00:20:00,837 --> 00:20:04,737 It, it trickled so it wasn't super obvious right away. 342 00:20:04,737 --> 00:20:06,117 I mean, it is now here. 343 00:20:06,117 --> 00:20:09,207 Like, um, the cost of food is completely insane. 344 00:20:09,267 --> 00:20:12,507 And, uh, and I think that, you know, um. 345 00:20:13,182 --> 00:20:17,742 Yeah, it is just, it's really frustrating because this is a, a self-inflicted 346 00:20:17,742 --> 00:20:24,102 scenario and now people who have worked, uh, you know, solid careers and had a 347 00:20:24,102 --> 00:20:26,532 certain standard of living are struggling. 348 00:20:27,312 --> 00:20:30,402 Um, you know, money is like this foundational technology for 349 00:20:30,402 --> 00:20:36,102 civilization that enables, uh, stability and uh, and coherence. 350 00:20:36,162 --> 00:20:41,592 And when you really start to break the rules of how people think money works 351 00:20:41,592 --> 00:20:47,862 or should work you, I think trigger civilizational level breakdowns. 352 00:20:48,012 --> 00:20:54,072 And we are now, I believe, living through the early stages of a massive transition 353 00:20:54,162 --> 00:21:00,462 in the way the West works and the, the, the west that we grew up in is gone and 354 00:21:00,467 --> 00:21:05,777 it's just it just takes time to, um, you know, this is a process that is gonna 355 00:21:05,777 --> 00:21:07,487 play out over a while, unfortunately. 356 00:21:08,777 --> 00:21:09,167 Anja: Hmm. 357 00:21:09,407 --> 00:21:11,057 It's the beginning of the end. 358 00:21:11,057 --> 00:21:15,587 It feels like it and it's hard to foresee what, how things are 359 00:21:15,587 --> 00:21:17,267 going to evolve from here on. 360 00:21:18,467 --> 00:21:21,017 But yeah, I actually really appreciate people like you and 361 00:21:21,017 --> 00:21:22,397 Jeff Booth for this reason. 362 00:21:22,397 --> 00:21:26,267 'cause he kind of, whenever I tune into your content, it gives me hope 363 00:21:26,657 --> 00:21:29,867 and I feel like that's something that's really needed right now. 364 00:21:30,807 --> 00:21:33,837 But before we get into the more philosophical side of things, I 365 00:21:33,837 --> 00:21:35,787 did wanna ask you with beginners. 366 00:21:36,702 --> 00:21:37,902 Who I need to Bitcoin. 367 00:21:37,932 --> 00:21:42,702 How can someone enter Bitcoin without necessarily feeling overwhelmed, 368 00:21:43,032 --> 00:21:46,782 particularly now because we're in a bear market and you know, there's a lot of 369 00:21:46,782 --> 00:21:51,972 emotions tied thought for people who might be new and like down now since October. 370 00:21:53,262 --> 00:21:54,472 So what advice do you have for them? 371 00:21:54,527 --> 00:21:58,332 Scott: Yeah, I mean, I think there's sort of two things that I recommend everybody 372 00:21:58,332 --> 00:22:00,642 when I get asked that question personally. 373 00:22:01,062 --> 00:22:05,697 One is, you need to actually spend a little bit of time interacting 374 00:22:05,697 --> 00:22:10,107 with Bitcoin, send a transaction, send some, you know, like use it 375 00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:13,287 and just understand that it's, it's not just a number on a screen. 376 00:22:13,857 --> 00:22:20,097 And, um, and, you know, in that process, set yourself up a, a hot wallet and set 377 00:22:20,097 --> 00:22:23,397 yourself up a cold wallet, you know, and, and just get comfortable with 378 00:22:23,907 --> 00:22:27,537 the basics of, uh, you know, uh, sort of the technology and the interface. 379 00:22:28,767 --> 00:22:32,462 And then on the other side, I think like you, you know, you wouldn't make. 380 00:22:33,432 --> 00:22:36,762 Other investment decisions probably without doing any kind 381 00:22:36,762 --> 00:22:38,742 of like research or, or work. 382 00:22:38,742 --> 00:22:41,772 And if you do, you're probably not having any success with 383 00:22:41,772 --> 00:22:42,792 your other investments either. 384 00:22:43,272 --> 00:22:47,982 So you know, you have to spend some time and if, if you like to read, there are. 385 00:22:48,627 --> 00:22:51,267 Endless, really great Bitcoin books out there to read. 386 00:22:51,717 --> 00:22:54,897 Uh, if you're, if you wanna watch videos in, you know, podcasts, like 387 00:22:54,897 --> 00:22:56,517 there, there is so much available. 388 00:22:56,907 --> 00:22:58,677 So, you know, those are the two things, right. 389 00:22:58,677 --> 00:23:03,267 You need, you need to like apply yourself and, and learn some of the basics of 390 00:23:03,267 --> 00:23:04,677 the, of the technical interaction. 391 00:23:04,677 --> 00:23:06,447 Like, you don't need to start running an node, but. 392 00:23:06,957 --> 00:23:10,857 Um, I think a lot of people do, they just buy some Bitcoin and it's sitting 393 00:23:10,857 --> 00:23:12,477 on a wallet and they have no idea. 394 00:23:12,537 --> 00:23:15,147 They just actually don't have any idea with about anything. 395 00:23:15,147 --> 00:23:20,127 So, um, yeah, those, those were, those, those would be my two 396 00:23:20,127 --> 00:23:21,327 things I would tell anybody. 397 00:23:21,455 --> 00:23:26,035 Anja: Well let's talk about your new book, the Age of Time, um, a Journey 398 00:23:26,035 --> 00:23:29,995 through Consciousness, reality, and the End of the Modern Illusion. 399 00:23:30,625 --> 00:23:34,195 I wanna know, did you come up with the title or the book first? 400 00:23:34,585 --> 00:23:39,475 Scott: Uh, the book that, but, uh, I had been circling around the title for 401 00:23:39,475 --> 00:23:46,285 a while, um, and you know, so that's actually a really good question. 402 00:23:46,465 --> 00:23:53,605 I Bitcoin is, you know, in 20, I think it was 2020, uh, Gigi, who's 403 00:23:53,605 --> 00:23:56,545 a really famous Bitcoin and wrote an article called Bitcoin is Time and. 404 00:23:57,610 --> 00:23:58,060 Beautiful 405 00:23:58,060 --> 00:23:58,480 Anja: article. 406 00:23:58,540 --> 00:24:02,020 Scott: Uh, you know, and that was, that was one of the first things that I read 407 00:24:02,020 --> 00:24:07,570 about Bitcoin that didn't have anything to do with money and started my own personal 408 00:24:07,570 --> 00:24:12,310 journey of like, oh wow, like this is a really expansive subject and something 409 00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:14,740 that I could really sink my teeth into. 410 00:24:14,890 --> 00:24:18,970 So, um, I wanna, I always kinda like credit that. 411 00:24:19,030 --> 00:24:25,090 And, um, so, so parallel to that, like I mentioned, I was experiencing 412 00:24:25,090 --> 00:24:26,890 some of these things that went on to. 413 00:24:27,295 --> 00:24:28,915 Inspired me to write the Dow Bitcoin. 414 00:24:29,395 --> 00:24:35,635 These are like personal, um, a shift in my perception about, you know, 415 00:24:35,635 --> 00:24:37,435 inhabiting the present moment differently. 416 00:24:38,455 --> 00:24:43,135 So, uh, as I was writing that book, you know, the funny thing I think happens 417 00:24:43,135 --> 00:24:47,575 when you write books, you end up sort of like teaching yourself what you think you 418 00:24:47,575 --> 00:24:49,525 are trying to explain to other people. 419 00:24:50,245 --> 00:24:57,505 And what I thought I had explained in the first book actually just ended up causing 420 00:24:57,505 --> 00:25:02,545 me to think more about what I was, what wanted, what inspired me, uh, at all. 421 00:25:02,545 --> 00:25:05,305 And so that's really what age of time is. 422 00:25:05,605 --> 00:25:11,965 You know, uh, once I had acknowledged this notion that Bitcoin can transform your 423 00:25:11,965 --> 00:25:16,555 ability to stay in the present moment, um, I started wondering about like what 424 00:25:16,555 --> 00:25:19,675 is that phenomenon and what causes it? 425 00:25:19,765 --> 00:25:24,955 And it's a much deeper than simply being able to save your money reliably. 426 00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:28,360 What I think is going on is a couple things. 427 00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:33,160 One of them is civilization, and I'm a student history, so I, I have always 428 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:38,650 loved, um, you know, learning about cultural transformation over time 429 00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:45,010 and, and money is a, is a critical aspect of how civilizations endure. 430 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,460 You know, the great civilizations have always been reserve currencies. 431 00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:49,340 This is something that has. 432 00:25:50,015 --> 00:25:53,770 A, a continual transition from one to another that has corresponded 433 00:25:53,770 --> 00:25:58,900 with, you know, the British Empire ruling the seas and the pound being 434 00:25:58,900 --> 00:26:00,730 the, the currency, the of the world. 435 00:26:00,940 --> 00:26:04,990 So, um, what does money do? 436 00:26:05,110 --> 00:26:10,540 And, uh, what, what, what is time and how does this, all of this come together? 437 00:26:10,540 --> 00:26:18,565 I think that time is an innovation that happened in Europe, uh, modern mechanical 438 00:26:18,565 --> 00:26:23,515 time as an innovation that happened in Europe, uh, you know, kinda 600 years ago. 439 00:26:24,175 --> 00:26:30,835 And when that happened, uh, it was an invention that mechanical 440 00:26:30,835 --> 00:26:38,575 clocks started to appear in clock towers and they became a, um, like 441 00:26:38,575 --> 00:26:41,455 a core part of civic infrastructure. 442 00:26:41,965 --> 00:26:43,975 So all of a sudden, for the first time ever. 443 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,030 People could start thinking about organizing their day around 444 00:26:49,030 --> 00:26:52,180 something instead of like the natural world, like where the sun was. 445 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,220 So there's tall thing, you know, displaying a, a round circle with 446 00:26:57,220 --> 00:27:01,390 the two hands is spinning and now that's the reference point of reality. 447 00:27:01,420 --> 00:27:07,780 And what clocks I think really became, is a civilizational tool for 448 00:27:08,485 --> 00:27:10,795 creating an agreement about order. 449 00:27:10,825 --> 00:27:16,645 It lets us make sense of when things happened and when things will happen in 450 00:27:16,645 --> 00:27:19,255 a way that is distributed and shared. 451 00:27:19,405 --> 00:27:24,445 And so the clock itself is a, is a, is a technology for ordering 452 00:27:24,445 --> 00:27:28,945 events and synchronizing things and enabling coordination at scale 453 00:27:29,245 --> 00:27:31,585 because clocks scaled themselves. 454 00:27:31,645 --> 00:27:35,035 And then we started having time zones and we started thinking about. 455 00:27:35,665 --> 00:27:39,745 Not just local time, but like, you know, uh, when, when we started traveling by 456 00:27:39,745 --> 00:27:45,265 train, it's actually mattered when a train left London and would arrive in Bristol 457 00:27:45,625 --> 00:27:49,705 and those cities needed to have the same clock so that trains wouldn't crash. 458 00:27:50,005 --> 00:27:56,035 And so we, so the, the, the level of coordination around clocks triggered 459 00:27:56,035 --> 00:28:01,405 or co-evolved with kind of the mechanization of industrial society 460 00:28:01,885 --> 00:28:07,465 and, and, uh, and eventually we, we landed here where we are now. 461 00:28:07,735 --> 00:28:11,005 Um, so Bitcoin does the same thing. 462 00:28:11,275 --> 00:28:17,275 Bitcoin is a system that, uh, it's a clock in the sense that it's a 463 00:28:17,275 --> 00:28:21,850 technology that helps us determine the order of when things happen. 464 00:28:23,650 --> 00:28:28,660 What's different about Bitcoin is that it doesn't require agreement 465 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:35,320 on all of us saying it's a certain time because Bitcoin, the bitcoin 466 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,610 clock doesn't work that way. 467 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:42,910 Bitcoin's clock, uh, every 10 minutes assembles, uh, you know, a a, a set 468 00:28:42,910 --> 00:28:47,890 of transactions that can sort of get minted to the blockchain permanently. 469 00:28:47,950 --> 00:28:51,040 We all agree that those ones happen after the ones that came before it. 470 00:28:51,970 --> 00:28:56,170 And so it's, it's sort of a new way of forming agreement 471 00:28:56,410 --> 00:28:58,270 around the order of things. 472 00:28:58,540 --> 00:29:05,800 And what's cool about this clock is that, uh, things can only go so 473 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:11,170 fast in Bitcoin, the fastest you can hope for something to be permanent 474 00:29:11,170 --> 00:29:12,790 in Bitcoin is around 10 minutes. 475 00:29:14,110 --> 00:29:15,765 Now, why I think that's interesting. 476 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:21,520 Is comes directly back to this original insight I found around the Dow of 477 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,240 Bitcoin, which is in the digital world. 478 00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:32,980 We face a never ending compression of the now, and it has a lot to do with the value 479 00:29:32,980 --> 00:29:39,160 of money because if the amount of time you have does not change and the value 480 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,410 of your money is continually diminishing. 481 00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:45,670 Then the value of your time or the extra time that you 482 00:29:45,670 --> 00:29:48,010 have is continually narrowing. 483 00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:53,500 And so what I think, you know, age of time is kind of a suggestion that beyond 484 00:29:53,500 --> 00:30:02,290 just being a clock, Bitcoin is a mechanism that sort of puts a, a floor on the, um, 485 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,450 the never ending devaluation of time. 486 00:30:05,830 --> 00:30:11,170 And as a result of doing that it's a new sort of temporal substrate. 487 00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:19,780 It's the new, uh, base layer for, uh, civilization because, you know, the 488 00:30:19,780 --> 00:30:27,190 Bitcoin conversation talks a lot about money, but I argue in the book that 489 00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:32,950 in terms of a coordination mechanism for civilization, time is actually 490 00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:35,500 a much more fundamental invention. 491 00:30:36,085 --> 00:30:41,395 It was clock towers 700 years ago that really kicked this whole party off. 492 00:30:41,395 --> 00:30:45,925 Like fiat was a much later invention and Pure Fiat is only 50 years old. 493 00:30:46,675 --> 00:30:51,535 But, uh, this thing with time has been going on for hundreds of years and it's 494 00:30:51,535 --> 00:30:57,560 been so gradual that, uh, you know, people all over, we're all questioning 495 00:30:58,015 --> 00:31:02,875 the rules of the money system and whether or not the Fiat money system makes sense. 496 00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:10,360 But time is a much less scrutinized notion, and I think it's, uh, as the 497 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,215 further down the rabbit hole you get. 498 00:31:13,420 --> 00:31:16,270 It's actually in some ways just as absurd. 499 00:31:16,570 --> 00:31:20,980 You know, the, the things that we take for granted or the unquestioned, uh, 500 00:31:20,980 --> 00:31:26,620 assumptions about how time works and what it is, are just as you know, big 501 00:31:26,620 --> 00:31:31,180 and profound as those early reactions people often have when they learn 502 00:31:31,180 --> 00:31:35,080 that money is fake and the piece of paper you have with a, you know, 503 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,020 famous person on it is nothing So. 504 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,300 Long answer to short question, uh, age time is, uh, you know, I 505 00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:46,690 love the title because, um, it's got a few different meanings. 506 00:31:46,690 --> 00:31:50,110 You know, I think that, uh, but, but one of them is kind of this 507 00:31:50,110 --> 00:31:55,360 notion that I think that hyper Bitcoin and where we're going as 508 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,240 Bitcoin is this information package. 509 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,860 When you understand Bitcoin, it changes your views on a lot of things, and 510 00:32:03,010 --> 00:32:05,590 as more people understand it, that 511 00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:10,060 uh, collective understanding grows brighter. 512 00:32:10,150 --> 00:32:12,640 It's multiplying, and we're living through that right now. 513 00:32:12,730 --> 00:32:16,360 And I think that if a change like this can occur in one person or many 514 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,330 people, I'm not, I'm definitely not the only person who's had ideas like this. 515 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,130 We're in the early stages of this idea diffusing to everyone. 516 00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:28,300 And so it's not just the case that different ideas about money are possible, 517 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:34,060 but I think that, uh, you know, different ideas about time themself, uh, are. 518 00:32:35,035 --> 00:32:37,075 You know, we're in the early stages of seeing those unfold. 519 00:32:37,471 --> 00:32:42,091 Speaker 4: Need a way to sign, verify and secure your Bitcoin Australia's 520 00:32:42,091 --> 00:32:43,681 one-stop shop for Bitcoiners. 521 00:32:43,831 --> 00:32:48,271 Has you covered from signing devices, nodes, and backup solutions? 522 00:32:48,571 --> 00:32:53,596 To bid access day decor and apparel, visit shop bitcoin.com au. 523 00:32:57,265 --> 00:33:00,865 Anja: You just cook my noodles in the best way possible. 524 00:33:00,865 --> 00:33:03,955 'cause I remember the first time I read Gigi's article, I 525 00:33:03,955 --> 00:33:05,785 was like, what did I just read? 526 00:33:05,785 --> 00:33:07,585 I had to read that again and again. 527 00:33:07,675 --> 00:33:10,855 Um, so I kind of feel like what you've just done to me is kind 528 00:33:10,855 --> 00:33:13,645 of like, I need to go back and watch everything you just said. 529 00:33:13,645 --> 00:33:16,075 'cause it just sounds very like profound. 530 00:33:16,075 --> 00:33:18,565 And one of the questions that I actually had for you was 531 00:33:18,805 --> 00:33:20,635 kind of answered essentially. 532 00:33:21,210 --> 00:33:26,010 What's one idea from your book that surprised you while you were writing it? 533 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,640 Scott: Yeah, I mean, I would say, that's a great question. 534 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,430 I thought the book was gonna be about time. 535 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,330 Well, you know, which is funny thing to say, and through the process of writing 536 00:33:36,330 --> 00:33:41,730 it, what I really understood is it's a book about meaning and what I think. 537 00:33:42,190 --> 00:33:48,220 You know, the core problem that, and why it goes beyond money is that human 538 00:33:48,220 --> 00:33:55,120 civilization is an accumulation of shared meaning and purpose, and we need, 539 00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,340 we need duration, we need time, and we need continuity for that meaning and 540 00:34:00,460 --> 00:34:02,410 purpose to be shared and to be durable. 541 00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:04,660 Money is a tool. 542 00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:07,780 The stability of money is a tool that enables that. 543 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:12,340 And that's why you see great civilizations have money that works 544 00:34:12,340 --> 00:34:17,800 reliably and it's why it's a problem when, this is exactly what we were 545 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,090 talking about earlier, the conversation. 546 00:34:19,090 --> 00:34:22,540 When money stops working, you start to see these like sort of social breakdowns. 547 00:34:23,380 --> 00:34:32,050 Um, but I ultimately think that, you know, civilization, humanity is um, is 548 00:34:32,050 --> 00:34:35,470 a continual evolution in coordination. 549 00:34:35,770 --> 00:34:39,610 You know, like this is what we do together, is we figure out how to solve 550 00:34:39,610 --> 00:34:42,220 problems and how to connect and belong. 551 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:50,050 And where I think Bitcoin has probably the most exciting application is as a tool to. 552 00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:55,450 Bring us back together and unify how we think about being 553 00:34:55,450 --> 00:34:57,070 able to coordinate at scale. 554 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,570 And we can do that with this amazing system that has transparent 555 00:35:01,570 --> 00:35:06,430 rules that no one can change and it is durable over time. 556 00:35:06,430 --> 00:35:11,890 Like Bitcoin has a pre mapped issu and schedule that will outlive all of us. 557 00:35:11,890 --> 00:35:15,670 Anybody watching this podcast will not be alive when the last Bitcoin is mine. 558 00:35:16,255 --> 00:35:22,405 So that alone is, is a time horizon that is long enough for 559 00:35:22,405 --> 00:35:23,995 us to really think big again. 560 00:35:24,205 --> 00:35:28,675 And I think part of the issue that we're experiencing today is that our 561 00:35:28,675 --> 00:35:32,540 political systems are also subject to these same problems that force. 562 00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:38,020 Shorter and shorter decision making timeframes, you know, everybody's 563 00:35:38,020 --> 00:35:38,770 just trying to get elected. 564 00:35:38,770 --> 00:35:42,040 Again, everybody's just trying to solve these like, it's like bandaid 565 00:35:42,370 --> 00:35:45,700 thinking and the great civilizations. 566 00:35:46,750 --> 00:35:47,920 Didn't think that way at all. 567 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,040 You know, you don't build a pyramid in a quarter. 568 00:35:51,490 --> 00:35:55,360 You build a pyramid over hundreds of years and just imagine like, what was 569 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:01,450 the last project humanity embarked on that would last longer than a human life? 570 00:36:01,750 --> 00:36:05,230 We don't do it anymore, and we don't do it anymore because 571 00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:06,490 we just don't think that way. 572 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:11,050 Like we don't know how to inhabit the timescale of the 573 00:36:11,050 --> 00:36:12,465 minds that we're thinking about. 574 00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:17,680 Being a part of something much, much, much larger than themselves. 575 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,790 Like that's really to me, what meaning and continuity imbues on somebody. 576 00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:22,480 You know? 577 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,340 I think that when we are forced into this hamster wheel of the 578 00:36:27,340 --> 00:36:31,960 rat race of fiat money, it forces us to only think of ourselves. 579 00:36:32,110 --> 00:36:35,830 Like it really narrows our aperture for how we imagine ourselves 580 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,560 as being part of a chain and. 581 00:36:39,145 --> 00:36:45,565 Earlier cultures were way more aware of themselves, both as being 582 00:36:45,565 --> 00:36:49,195 ancestors and being inheritors. 583 00:36:49,345 --> 00:36:50,455 You know, like they were. 584 00:36:50,905 --> 00:36:56,455 It was about stories and rituals and things that placed you in a lineage. 585 00:36:56,785 --> 00:37:01,770 So you had been handed down something from the people who came 586 00:37:01,770 --> 00:37:05,815 before you, and it was your job to. 587 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,460 Pass that down to the people who are gonna come after you. 588 00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:15,070 So that's what we've really lost in my opinion, and this is the thing 589 00:37:15,070 --> 00:37:20,290 that I'm excited about and what age of time is really about, is it's an 590 00:37:20,290 --> 00:37:24,670 excavation of thinking about, you know, civilization and what does it 591 00:37:24,670 --> 00:37:27,460 mean for us to have access to a tool. 592 00:37:27,940 --> 00:37:28,360 There. 593 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,390 Well, that we can do this without being given permission to do it. 594 00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:32,950 Anja: I love this so much. 595 00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:36,880 And, and, um, where was I gonna go with this? 596 00:37:37,090 --> 00:37:43,090 Um, like, I know we use Bitcoin, some of us use Bitcoin as a unit of account, 597 00:37:43,090 --> 00:37:47,410 like we price things in Bitcoin or we make financial decisions based 598 00:37:47,410 --> 00:37:51,040 on what, what something might be worth in the future in Bitcoin terms. 599 00:37:51,350 --> 00:37:57,320 But I've also noticed an example of where people are using Bitcoin as time, and 600 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,710 it might seem like I'm being funny, but I'm not, and I wonder if there's more. 601 00:38:01,130 --> 00:38:05,630 So a lot of Bitcoiners, as you know, are having babies and there's a bit 602 00:38:05,630 --> 00:38:07,700 of a baby boom happening in Australia. 603 00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:11,990 It is so funny because watching my, you know, non Bitcoin of friends 604 00:38:12,140 --> 00:38:14,360 announced their baby news, it's like 605 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:19,800 so and so was born on this date at this time weighing this much and Bitcoin is 606 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,030 on Twitter are like the complete opposite of that, another node added to the 607 00:38:24,030 --> 00:38:27,360 network at block height like thousand. 608 00:38:28,170 --> 00:38:34,015 So is that like one example of how Bitcoin is a measuring their time in Bitcoin? 609 00:38:34,015 --> 00:38:34,025 Atul 610 00:38:34,723 --> 00:38:36,883 Speaker 5: Not your keys, not your coins. 611 00:38:37,423 --> 00:38:41,503 If you're holding Bitcoin, your self custody setup needs to be done right. 612 00:38:42,253 --> 00:38:46,753 Mine racks delivers paranoia grade security so that you can sleep at night 613 00:38:46,753 --> 00:38:48,793 knowing that your money is protected. 614 00:38:49,663 --> 00:38:52,543 Take control and secure your money the honest way. 615 00:38:52,933 --> 00:38:56,323 Head to mine racks.com/honest Money. 616 00:38:57,580 --> 00:38:57,830 Scott: is, I'm in Bitcoin. 617 00:38:57,830 --> 00:38:57,955 It totally is. 618 00:38:57,955 --> 00:39:03,715 And I also think, you know, these are, these are like proto rituals of, you 619 00:39:03,715 --> 00:39:09,980 know, this is early examples of Bitcoin culture, uh, where people are, are, you 620 00:39:09,980 --> 00:39:15,650 know, aligning themselves to a, a rhythm that is different than, uh, the rhythm 621 00:39:15,950 --> 00:39:19,460 that we have been told to follow, you know, that we were adopted into at birth. 622 00:39:20,030 --> 00:39:23,090 So I think Yeah, I totally, and I think there's, there's a lot of 623 00:39:23,090 --> 00:39:24,470 different examples like that, right? 624 00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:25,670 You see people, yeah. 625 00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:28,190 Time locking transactions, you know, they're sending a certain amount 626 00:39:28,190 --> 00:39:31,880 of Bitcoin into a distant point in the future where they can meet 627 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,200 it one day or somebody else can. 628 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,250 Like, I think it was just a fractal has a, has a piece of art that has a 629 00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:44,180 one Bitcoin, um, that's, uh, locked up until I, I think it was 2140. 630 00:39:45,470 --> 00:39:49,190 Uh, these are, I think these are also ways that people. 631 00:39:50,225 --> 00:39:53,555 Um, relate to what I was talking about there with the, the 632 00:39:53,555 --> 00:39:55,835 ordering of events differently. 633 00:39:55,865 --> 00:39:59,345 You know, and, and bitcoin's really cool because like, there's also, there's 634 00:39:59,345 --> 00:40:03,785 something called Phantom Time Theory, which is, uh, you know, an, uh, an 635 00:40:03,785 --> 00:40:09,815 academic, uh, sec, a sect of, of history that suggests that, um, there are lots 636 00:40:09,815 --> 00:40:14,225 of different problems with the historical timeline that we've been presented. 637 00:40:14,675 --> 00:40:17,285 And there's just lots of things that either aren't totally 638 00:40:17,285 --> 00:40:18,455 accurate or didn't happen. 639 00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:21,890 Um, you know, like there's 300 years of European history 640 00:40:21,890 --> 00:40:23,360 that are difficult to prove. 641 00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:29,570 And, um, so Bitcoin is also this unalterable record of what happened. 642 00:40:30,290 --> 00:40:36,110 And as a result of having an Unalterable record, you have like a, a really 643 00:40:36,110 --> 00:40:40,705 durable, um, tool to, you know. 644 00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:43,700 Remember what, what, what came before. 645 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,110 And this is something that I think is actually gonna become a lot more important 646 00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:50,450 over the next maybe 20, 30 years. 647 00:40:50,450 --> 00:40:54,080 Because this is one thing that we totally saw during COVID, depending on 648 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,310 what you were trying to learn about. 649 00:40:55,790 --> 00:41:01,100 Uh, I noticed early on that, uh, YouTube and Google were censoring 650 00:41:01,100 --> 00:41:03,680 and deleting content that I was really interested in watching. 651 00:41:04,385 --> 00:41:11,165 And so in the digital world, and certainly in the AI world, uh, the reliability of 652 00:41:11,165 --> 00:41:17,255 information to persist, uh, especially if it's not the kind of information that, uh, 653 00:41:17,255 --> 00:41:21,095 the people who own those platforms might want you to know about is gonna be hard. 654 00:41:21,965 --> 00:41:25,085 You know, bitcoin's not some kind of like a silver bullet that can 655 00:41:25,085 --> 00:41:28,715 fix all those problems, but I think what one thing that it does offer 656 00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:34,400 is, it's a system that the better you understand it, it changes how you 657 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,900 think about things and it might cause you to want to invent similar things. 658 00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:43,040 Things that have other, you know, have those traits again embedded in them. 659 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,350 So like, uh, you know, I think Bitcoiners talk a lot about the idea of like, you 660 00:41:48,350 --> 00:41:52,940 know, proof of work transforms into Bitcoiners, don't tend to waste their 661 00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:56,030 money on stupid stuff, disposable stuff. 662 00:41:56,915 --> 00:42:01,025 So if everybody all of a sudden starts using Bitcoin, then it would be rational 663 00:42:01,025 --> 00:42:04,835 to assume that at some point the only things that anybody will buy will be 664 00:42:04,835 --> 00:42:06,995 stuff that's like really awesome quality. 665 00:42:07,505 --> 00:42:11,285 And so that could trigger, you know, who knows beautiful monuments. 666 00:42:11,285 --> 00:42:15,875 It might be like, you know, refrigerators that last for 30 years, like, who knows? 667 00:42:16,265 --> 00:42:17,680 But the opposite is true right now. 668 00:42:17,915 --> 00:42:18,065 Right? 669 00:42:18,065 --> 00:42:20,135 Anja: Refrigerators that last for 30 years. 670 00:42:20,190 --> 00:42:20,560 Scott: Yeah, I, 671 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,835 Anja: everything's disposable that like old school. 672 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,050 When you see those old school appliances, like the refrigerators from like the 673 00:42:27,050 --> 00:42:30,740 early sixties, I wanna say, I don't know when they first started out, but they 674 00:42:30,740 --> 00:42:34,040 were so much fancier than refrigerators today that had all these like cool 675 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,090 little gadgets and sections within that were just so cleverly thought out. 676 00:42:38,090 --> 00:42:41,840 And now it's like mass produced and just very minimalist. 677 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:42,110 And I'm 678 00:42:42,170 --> 00:42:45,350 Scott: totally even like, you know, airlines in the 1960s, you used to get 679 00:42:45,350 --> 00:42:50,090 like a cooked meal and on you would be served it on China, like with silverware. 680 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,230 And that was like a regular seat that wasn't first class. 681 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,400 So, and money did work appreciably much better in the sixties. 682 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,080 Like that was before 1971. 683 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,290 And Nixon and the, the, you know, the birth of like pure fiat. 684 00:43:03,350 --> 00:43:08,060 And so that's in just an example within the lifespan of people who are alive now. 685 00:43:08,510 --> 00:43:14,420 So, uh, you know, I think if this thing plays out over hundreds of years, um, you 686 00:43:14,420 --> 00:43:18,380 know, we're, we're just, we're so early and that's why I think Bitcoin is so cool. 687 00:43:18,830 --> 00:43:20,030 You know, it can be. 688 00:43:20,495 --> 00:43:23,675 Really inspiring and frustrating for people who want things to 689 00:43:23,675 --> 00:43:26,015 happen faster, but like, um. 690 00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:31,640 You can use your imagination and, and, and just about anything is possible 691 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:38,090 if this technology remains sort of durable and secure over long timeframes. 692 00:43:38,090 --> 00:43:38,390 So 693 00:43:38,450 --> 00:43:38,720 Anja: love it. 694 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:42,320 And what you end, the speak is, uh, sorry, the listeners won't know like the 695 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,980 whole time we are talking, I keep getting goosebumps every time you say something 696 00:43:45,980 --> 00:43:50,120 that just like blows my mind and I remember having this sort of a reaction. 697 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,290 Like a physical reaction to like learning about, um, the difficulty adjustment and 698 00:43:55,290 --> 00:43:58,620 some of these like really cool things about Bitcoin, like time locking is a 699 00:43:58,620 --> 00:44:01,650 really great example and I'm brought glad you brought that up because 700 00:44:02,010 --> 00:44:07,080 even that alone is just one of those things, like we've never had anything 701 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,390 like that in the history of mankind. 702 00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:13,490 All these different cool things that Bitcoin has solved aside. 703 00:44:13,490 --> 00:44:17,390 Even that one thing is just like such a cool thing to think about 704 00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:18,920 that that can even be done. 705 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,030 It's mind blowing. 706 00:44:20,030 --> 00:44:20,120 Mm-hmm. 707 00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:25,400 And, and the other thing you mentioned about the immutable ledger, like we've 708 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,710 never, again, never had that before. 709 00:44:27,710 --> 00:44:30,710 Like Yap stones that were used as, you know, ledgers back in 710 00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:32,780 the day are fully destroyed. 711 00:44:32,780 --> 00:44:37,100 Like I imagine maybe there might be one living in a museum somewhere. 712 00:44:38,285 --> 00:44:42,965 This is like, yeah completely indestructible and yeah, it's just 713 00:44:42,965 --> 00:44:47,795 insane to, to, to think that this is something that's been created and this 714 00:44:47,795 --> 00:44:49,775 is why I am so obsessed with Bitcoin. 715 00:44:49,895 --> 00:44:51,845 It's like, how can you not be like, the fact that we're 716 00:44:51,845 --> 00:44:53,675 witnessing this in our lifetime? 717 00:44:54,215 --> 00:44:54,665 What? 718 00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:54,820 Yeah. 719 00:44:55,700 --> 00:44:56,615 Scott: It's so cool. 720 00:44:57,725 --> 00:44:58,085 Anja: Yeah. 721 00:44:59,495 --> 00:45:02,615 But I think we're kind of towards the end of the questions. 722 00:45:02,675 --> 00:45:06,695 Um, looking ahead, what excites you most about Bitcoin and the 723 00:45:06,695 --> 00:45:08,225 philosophy where it's going? 724 00:45:09,245 --> 00:45:15,200 Scott: You know, I think that, uh, we, uh yeah, that's a great question. 725 00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:21,290 Um, I hope that we just continue to see an organic adoption of the technology. 726 00:45:21,620 --> 00:45:28,430 And what I think is gonna happen is the, you know, as the opportunity for 727 00:45:28,430 --> 00:45:34,520 Bitcoin grows and bigger people, you know, larger interested parties start to 728 00:45:35,990 --> 00:45:40,040 take advantage of the opportunity to make bigger amounts of fiat money at scale. 729 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,850 I think we're gonna see more and more ambitious things, 730 00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:45,830 and some of them will fail. 731 00:45:46,580 --> 00:45:50,990 Uh, you know, so one of them is like maybe the normalization of 732 00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:52,970 Bitcoin's backing a mortgage. 733 00:45:53,690 --> 00:45:56,570 Like we're, we're in a, we're entering into a period I think as Bitcoin 734 00:45:56,570 --> 00:46:01,880 becomes more and mainstream, that we're gonna start to see more, you know, 735 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:06,500 attempts at commercial application for using Bitcoin and uh, some of 736 00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:08,480 them will end up being lasting. 737 00:46:09,125 --> 00:46:13,085 Uh, integrations of Bitcoin in like regular day-to-day technology. 738 00:46:13,115 --> 00:46:17,705 And some of them will be the things that like, you know, catch the next round of 739 00:46:17,705 --> 00:46:19,625 new Bitcoiners and cost 'em their Bitcoin. 740 00:46:20,645 --> 00:46:24,365 So I think that we're, you know, I'm like, I'm kind of, of this mind that 741 00:46:24,365 --> 00:46:26,495 like, Bitcoin is, is exactly on time. 742 00:46:26,495 --> 00:46:29,345 Like it's just, it's gonna do whatever it's gonna do. 743 00:46:30,305 --> 00:46:36,665 If you think about, um, I was a teenager in the 1990s and so when I was. 744 00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:40,940 When I was maybe 11 or 12, we got dial up internet in our house. 745 00:46:40,940 --> 00:46:43,640 And I remember my mom sitting me down to explain to me that we were getting 746 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:49,460 the internet and like at that time, um, downloading one image took about an hour. 747 00:46:50,690 --> 00:46:54,710 So you didn't even get to have a preview of the image before it was 748 00:46:55,130 --> 00:47:00,410 so, uh, hey, you know, and by the time I was starting university, email 749 00:47:00,410 --> 00:47:02,000 was kind of just becoming a thing. 750 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,260 That was the late nineties. 751 00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:05,780 And then by the time I was done university. 752 00:47:06,545 --> 00:47:08,800 You couldn't have a a white collar job without email. 753 00:47:09,935 --> 00:47:13,445 And I think that's kind of where we are with Bitcoin right now is 754 00:47:13,445 --> 00:47:15,455 like email in the late nineties. 755 00:47:15,755 --> 00:47:20,555 So it's still optional, uh, if you want it to be. 756 00:47:20,885 --> 00:47:24,515 But uh, objects in the rear view mirror are a lot closer than they appear. 757 00:47:25,085 --> 00:47:28,175 And you know, if you think back, if you were around for. 758 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,700 The mass proliferation of internet technology at that time, things moved 759 00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:37,230 super fast and you know, all of a sudden, you know, there were some 760 00:47:37,230 --> 00:47:38,790 critical things that needed to happen. 761 00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:44,490 Like, uh, you know, online transactions, streaming, video technology, none of those 762 00:47:44,490 --> 00:47:49,320 things existed and they were invented and those things enabled the throughput 763 00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:51,840 that everything else followed after. 764 00:47:52,410 --> 00:47:54,480 And that's what I think is going on with Bitcoin right 765 00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,735 now with liquid and lightning. 766 00:47:56,570 --> 00:48:02,060 Um, you know, there's just things, subsequent innovations that will enable 767 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:06,170 the everyone else to, to come on board, and I think that this is what we'll see, 768 00:48:06,170 --> 00:48:10,130 but sort of between now and, you know, sailor talks about the Bitcoin gold rush, 769 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,270 where it'll end in 2034 when bitcoin's, you know, largely mined by then. 770 00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:14,660 So. 771 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,060 Anja: Yeah, interesting. 772 00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:17,710 Like I'm just here for the ride. 773 00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:20,110 I don't know what to expect in terms of adoption. 774 00:48:20,110 --> 00:48:23,200 Sometimes it feels like it's happening really fast. 775 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,080 Other times it happens, it's just, it like feels like it's happening 776 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,920 slow, and then it helps to kind of zoom out sometimes as well. 777 00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:32,620 Yeah, I find, 778 00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:34,270 Scott: I mean, I think that the biggest problem is like. 779 00:48:35,165 --> 00:48:39,395 20 years in the life of an individual person is a really long time in 780 00:48:39,395 --> 00:48:42,965 the life of a, of an asset that's gonna live for a thousand years. 781 00:48:42,995 --> 00:48:44,915 It's like, it's a cup of coffee. 782 00:48:45,365 --> 00:48:48,605 So most of the, you know, I talked about this in now Bitcoin as well. 783 00:48:48,605 --> 00:48:52,020 I think that like most of the, you know, frustrations that come along with Bitcoin 784 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,715 and Bitcoin adoption have a lot to just to do with people's, you know, internal 785 00:48:56,525 --> 00:49:01,325 time needs, like these are just imaginary, uh, things that don't 786 00:49:01,325 --> 00:49:03,305 have any bearing on Bitcoin at all. 787 00:49:03,515 --> 00:49:07,325 And uh, that's just an unfortunate reality for us as early participants. 788 00:49:07,505 --> 00:49:12,485 Anja: Yeah, I love how, how much emotion we all attach to Bitcoin and sometimes 789 00:49:12,485 --> 00:49:16,955 I notice I catch myself doing it too, and then I'm like, just, just relax. 790 00:49:17,255 --> 00:49:17,345 Like. 791 00:49:19,300 --> 00:49:20,080 You know, this thing. 792 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:20,230 Yeah. 793 00:49:20,230 --> 00:49:20,980 It's gonna win. 794 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:25,840 Um, you don't need to Yeah put, uh, put so much, um, energy into it sometimes. 795 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,860 I just feel like, yeah. 796 00:49:27,850 --> 00:49:30,340 Before we wrap up, do you have any final thoughts that you'd 797 00:49:30,340 --> 00:49:31,540 like to share with the audience? 798 00:49:31,540 --> 00:49:35,830 Obviously, I will include all the links, um, to the book and to anything 799 00:49:35,830 --> 00:49:39,760 you else you want me to include, but do you have any final parting words? 800 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:40,150 Scott: Hmm. 801 00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:44,530 Uh, yeah, I mean, if, if this, if any of this was interesting for you, I, yeah. 802 00:49:44,530 --> 00:49:45,190 Age of time. 803 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,210 We'll come out sometime in April. 804 00:49:47,240 --> 00:49:49,880 I'm just sort of putting the final touches on it right now. 805 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,580 And, uh, yeah, I would encourage you to read it. 806 00:49:52,580 --> 00:49:55,850 I think, uh, this is a book I'm, I'm really excited about. 807 00:49:55,850 --> 00:50:00,710 I'm really excited to share and, um, I'm active on Twitter. 808 00:50:00,830 --> 00:50:04,430 If, uh, if you're listening and you are, and you were interested and you know, send 809 00:50:04,430 --> 00:50:05,870 me a message, I'm always happy to chat. 810 00:50:05,870 --> 00:50:07,670 I love meeting Bitcoiners from all over the world. 811 00:50:08,165 --> 00:50:09,725 Uh, you know, especially Australians. 812 00:50:09,725 --> 00:50:10,745 My wife's Australian. 813 00:50:10,745 --> 00:50:14,495 I, I try to get Australia as often as I can and, uh, and 814 00:50:14,495 --> 00:50:16,025 hopefully back to Bitcoin alive. 815 00:50:16,085 --> 00:50:18,365 Uh, maybe not this year, but, but, uh, but soon. 816 00:50:18,485 --> 00:50:18,845 Anja: Yeah. 817 00:50:18,935 --> 00:50:19,475 Love it. 818 00:50:19,475 --> 00:50:21,035 Thanks so much for your time, Scott. 819 00:50:21,035 --> 00:50:21,686 Scott: Thanks again for having me. 820 00:50:21,686 --> 00:50:24,176 Speaker 3: Still here you are one of the good ones. 821 00:50:24,656 --> 00:50:27,296 We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. 822 00:50:27,656 --> 00:50:31,376 If you enjoy how we cut through the noise, consider supporting us 823 00:50:31,376 --> 00:50:33,626 directly via the Lightning QR code. 824 00:50:34,136 --> 00:50:36,176 Got a question or a thought to share? 825 00:50:36,566 --> 00:50:37,916 Comments are wide open. 826 00:50:38,216 --> 00:50:39,446 We'd love to hear from you. 827 00:50:39,556 --> 00:50:44,836 For bonus content and updates, follow us on socials at Honest Money Show. 828 00:50:45,886 --> 00:50:50,716 Until next week, take care of yourself and your money and stay decentralized.