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Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of The Crucible Conversations for the
Curious.

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Today I'm chatting with Joshua and Joshua's got an incredible story about self-medicating.

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This is probably one of the darker sides of addiction.

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It's something that many people do without realizing.

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I realized after.

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This is something that I've also done.

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So Joshua, thanks so much for turning up today.

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I really appreciate it.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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It's a pleasure to be here and it's a pleasure to share my story and to share, you know,
kind of some of the ways that I worked through it and, you know, some of the paths because

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oftentimes I don't think we realize when we're a substance and we're using it again and
again that it's something that is added some kind of value at some point in time that

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assisted us to do something and then we ended up abusing it and continuing down that path
because medical professionals

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don't always have a grip as well as they like to think they do sometimes.

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We get misdiagnosed or misidentified as what's going on and they don't often listen to us,
right?

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I, you've, you've nailed it on the head.

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Yeah.

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I've mentioned this before.

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I had a conversation with my doctor a few weeks ago and, I said, you know, I was, I was
drinking to help manage my ADHD and he just said, that was a really bad thing to do.

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And I said, no, I said it helped me make sense of life.

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could not get his head around it.

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I realized that it's actually a good thing that he couldn't because he hasn't presumably
been in that state where he needed to find a way of managing.

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So tell us a bit about your story and why you ended up self-medicating and then yeah, lead
us on from there.

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Absolutely.

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Well, when I was growing up, I was a very, very naive kid.

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I couldn't understand like the regular social nuances of just general interaction.

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Sarcasm was lost on me.

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I could not tell it.

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So I was the most gullible person and people would, you know, they'd play with that data.

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They'd take advantage of it.

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It really shitty back when it was happening.

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And it took me a long time and I used drugs in the process to kind of

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find a way around that because there's something particular you find in those social
circles when you're using is that everyone is, you know, much cooler or nicer to each

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other if you're all sitting around, I don't know.

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I started out smoking weed together because you weren't supposed to smoke weed for a long
period of time and then it evolved to other things.

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And that also kind of numbed my overthinking brain.

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My brain, you know, does sometimes still and used to run on 1,000 % almost the whole
entire time, right?

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And turning that down was a really hard thing to do.

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And finding people to kind of bridge the gap and come down to where I was at and make
sense of me and understand who I was was not something that was easily found in the area

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that I was in.

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And so, you know, was in a two-home family.

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You my parents weren't together.

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So I was going back and forth between each house and...

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Yeah, the journeys back and forth made it difficult.

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The families were broken and split.

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My dad was definitely someone that abused medication as well.

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At some point in time, had lost his leg in a motorcycle accident, which was a traumatic
experience in and of itself.

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But after that, he had gotten the pain pill medications, like a whole slew of them,
naturally, as rightly so when you lose a limb, right?

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But he ended up finding ways to double and triple his prescription some months.

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And he went way down that rabbit hole.

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And there was me and my brother at the time living with him.

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You know, we used to take them all the time and follow down that rabbit hole.

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And that's the one of the first, you know, close social experiences I had when we were,
you know, those partners in crime doing that kind of, you know, stealing from him and

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taking his medication and whatnot before realizing like,

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those things were numbing some of the overthinking that was going on in my brain because I
didn't have anyone there to kind of guide me and point me in that direction.

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Kids are geniuses.

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Zero through four, psychologically speaking, you're on a genius level, right?

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And if you're not properly cared for throughout that process, then you kind of start
seeking the why and how do I...

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How do I get on the same page as the people around me?

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Instinctually, right?

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Like, you're not doing it because you're like, want to dumb my brain down.

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You're not saying it because, I'm too fast or too whatever for the people around me.

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You just want that family, that connection with folks.

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And so I naturally kind of seeked out that space to kind of bridge the gap, I suppose.

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But.

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as it evolved over the years, probably around mid-20s or so, about later 30s now, probably
about mid-20s or so, I kind of got the inkling of the idea of why I was using.

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About that time was probably when I picked up, shortly before that time is when I picked
up, you know, cocaine.

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And the way that that worked with me was that it actually kind of slowed my brain down a
little bit and I was able to

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focus on individual tasks in front of me, which I don't know if you know it, HD brain, but
like, you know, like I was able to actually start accomplishing some things under that.

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And, and, know, that's it's, wonderful, you know, at first and in various moments between
all of the other moments where, know, you get so far into it that you start abusing that

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you're not actually using it as medication.

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There's not many that I've found that know that they're self-medicating that can still
actually utilize it as medication, right?

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Because the problem with self-medicating is that you've got to set your own boundaries.

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And when it comes to a substance, especially a substance that's, you know, it helps us to
an extent, right?

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To an extent, it was an assistant.

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And then you take a step or two beyond that extent and you're gone, you know.

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You've gone way too fast and now,

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it's worse than if you had stayed sober in that area and not taken anything at all.

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And yeah, and that's kind of where I fell off at at some point.

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was at some point early on, I had experimented with Adderall, but Adderall was so much
harder to get a hold of than the Coke was, right?

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Crazy, it?

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Yeah, it's absolutely ridiculous.

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I want to dive in there because so much of what you've said there, we can really unpack.

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Right at the beginning, you said, you know, children want to, they have to attach to their
parents.

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And if there's not that love and support, they will stop being authentic.

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They will work out ways to survive.

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You know, I guess same as you at four or five, six, I didn't have that.

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understanding of how an adult brain works.

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I still don't, but we won't go there.

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So yes, so we built coping mechanisms.

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You know, we, we formed, we pretended, you know, go to your room, do not come back until
you're feeling better.

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Five minutes later, I'm feeling better, daddy, you know, because that horror of being by
yourself, you know, it's, it's, learned to lie, we learned to identify with what they

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want, as you said, to make sense of it.

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Yeah.

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Well, that same note, you know, one thing I continually come to realize, you know, I'll
hear, you know, a parent talking about their kid and goes, they did this or that, and they

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need to figure this or that out.

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And I'm like, what do you what do you mean?

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They're a kid like they they learn by example, right?

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They're not going to figure it out.

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You can't, you know, send a kid to his room, especially that young and expect them to
figure it out.

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Right.

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You have to example it.

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You have to

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talk through the hard emotions, you have to sit with them.

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You gotta remember, know, 150, 160 years ago, 200 years ago, we were brought as kids with
our parents wherever they were.

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We got to watch them, be around them, and understand them in a different way than our
current society does this.

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We're separating our parents and kids constantly.

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It's not conducive for individual personal development.

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We develop our

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emotional intelligence and how we understand the world from being around other people and
watching our caregivers, the people that, you know, we're connected most with in this

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world.

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And when you don't have that kind of assistance and you don't have that person around, you
know, who do you trust?

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If you're sending kids off, you're your kids off.

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And look, this is necessary.

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I'm not knocking anyone at all for, you know, needing to have caregivers for their
children during the day, but

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If you understand the mindset, it's easier to understand why kids act in those ways,
right?

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So if we have to send our kids off to a caregiver every single day while we go to work,
you know, they don't know this caregiver from Adam, you know, and how do you build that

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level of trust with a child?

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And now they're going to example the behavior around them.

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If they don't feel safe, then they're going to start to act out in various ways.

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And now you've started this cycle that bleeds into the home and the parent goes, well, you
were bad at school today.

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If you understand it from a perspective of they don't know this person from Adam and the
tiniest little thing could have triggered them into feeling unsafe and uncomfortable.

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And now that attitude is being carried into the home as well.

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And now your parents wagging their fingers at you because, you know, you didn't feel
comfortable or safe around the teacher and you wanted X, Y, and Z and then you lashed out

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because the teacher wasn't giving you that.

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It creates a really convoluted process that's

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makes it harder to unpack and harder to administer to the child.

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The child is the one that should be, we should be centering our outlook around.

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And I think it's a bit difficult to do that in today's society and standards or along
those lines, we're not giving them the grace and leeway to be bad in those areas, right?

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Like it's a double-edged sword, really.

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It is, isn't it?

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And then you've also got to add to the fact that the parents are a generation older,
they've got their own successes and failures, their own way that they were brought up by

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their parents, their grandparents, they didn't have that nurture maybe that we, the
current generation, our children wanted, require, need.

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So it's tough.

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It's really tough.

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I want to go back to finding those coping strategies because this I think is really,
really important.

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Particularly if it is a substance or maybe also a way of acting.

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You you said they act, kids act out when they're not, don't feel safe.

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I think that's being safe is the key, isn't it?

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Expand on

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Expand on that for me because I know this is an interest of yours very much so.

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which was specifically being safe in a.

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yeah, the need to feel safe.

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And then if you're not safe, that either finding a coping strategy, you know, as I said, a
chemical, a substance, whether it's food, gym, whatever, or, as you said, acting out

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behavioral stuff, because that's no more safe than hard drugs or soft drugs, really.

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yeah, absolutely.

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I actually found last week in a session with my therapist that I've just recently hit a
point now where I have the safest that I've felt in about two and a half years in my

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current foundation and position and the people around me and my relationships, two and a
half years.

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And it's funny looking back on all of it and seeing the ways that as an adult I was acting
out while not feeling safe.

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in various spaces, I was engaged to someone for a little bit and I lived in a somewhat
dicey situation for a short period of time there.

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And all of the ways that we kind of shut ourselves off from the world and people around
us, things that could actually be potentially good for us even, because if we don't feel

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safe inside of ourselves to ourselves, right?

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and telling, I'm the one that said that because I was feeling really good.

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I was feeling really good this day.

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didn't have much to say to her.

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I was giving her all the good points of my life.

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And she sat and she was like, okay, well, what does that feel like?

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And I just, you know, it feels, it feels safe.

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And, you know, I kind of started tearing up a little bit as I was saying that.

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And not realizing that you don't feel safe in a certain environment is like probably more
detrimental, right?

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Because we're using.

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all of these things to kind of cram our brains shut, right?

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I'm cutting myself off from the rest of world.

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I'm spending as much time as I can on the computer and maybe even writing and doing things
that are good for me, right, that are quality, except I'm not getting any kind of social

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interaction.

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I'm holding up, keeping to myself.

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I'm not fueling the emotional brain.

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I'm not, you know, connecting with other folks around me.

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And that's cutting people off.

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And then in that process, I mean, I wasn't abusing, I wasn't, you know, doing bad during
that period of time.

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But I was drinking a little bit and it was, you know, there were moments where it could
have gone over the edge.

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If I didn't have the previous discipline that I'd had before when it came to drinking
specifically because alcohol is the easiest thing to get a hold of.

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It's not been my biggest, it's not been my biggest problem.

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But I know when I can see myself on the edge, if I get one night or two nights where I've
drinking a little bit too much, I'm like,

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Okay, I can't drink for a day or two or a week and a half sometimes even, but that aside,
yeah, kind of distancing ourselves from the people around us and not finding, we're not

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feeling safe enough to reach out and be vulnerable, right?

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Safeness is super important because it allows you to be your authentic self.

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And from what I've understood now recently,

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You know, in my spirituality, know, love's always been the biggest thing, right?

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Love is the most powerful thing out there, but in reality, actually, there's one energy
that kind of eclipses that by just a little bit, and that's authenticity.

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Your authentic self exudes those energies anyway.

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So it's all good and well to be super loving, but authenticity is where it really stands
out, because if you're super loving, and this is back to the words definitions thing, but

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I'm not going to define it for you.

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If you're super loving, you might end up feeling like you have to do too much for somebody
and you might want to go out of your way to do those things.

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But if I'm authentic, I'm going to say, you know what, I would love to do that for you.

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I just can't today.

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I have to go do X, Y, and Z, blah, blah.

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And that holds you in, you know, your boundaries and allows you to survive and thrive
because you can't pour from an empty cup.

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have to, your cup needs to be overflowing in order for you to give from it.

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Every time you try and pour out that last little drop, you're teaching yourself that your
needs are not the ones that are the important needs, right?

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And every time that you feel safe, you're able to be authentic and ask for what you need
from people around you.

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Hey, can you come sit with me while I do this?

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You know, for me, in ADHD and executive dysfunction, those things were super important
just to have somebody there sometimes, right?

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My place is a mess.

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Can you just come talk to me while I clean it?

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And then finding, you know, that space.

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Feeling safe is, it's, you know, it's like a requirement for a healthy life.

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Do you feel safe in your job?

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Do you feel safe in your environment?

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You know, building that allows you to eventually feel safe in yourself, right?

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00:17:12,033 --> 00:17:20,293
So even if you are working at a place that might not be the best environment, if you feel
safe, you know that you can hold yourself and your boundaries here.

201
00:17:20,293 --> 00:17:30,006
And if, God forbid, they decide to kick you to the curb because, you know, you're holding
your boundaries right, which, you know, in capitalism, they don't like most of the time,

202
00:17:30,006 --> 00:17:32,347
then, you know, you're going to be safe.

203
00:17:32,347 --> 00:17:35,128
You know, your landing zone is going to be okay.

204
00:17:35,383 --> 00:17:41,801
You're going to be held up by, you know, the people around you and your social network and
social circle.

205
00:17:41,801 --> 00:17:43,232
Yep.

206
00:17:43,232 --> 00:17:45,874
I, you've really nailed it there.

207
00:17:45,874 --> 00:17:48,696
And I, is, it's, it's lots of steps, isn't it?

208
00:17:48,696 --> 00:17:58,874
It's going right back to the child, finding ways to cope, playing out the young adult,
finding drugs, finding cocaine to slow you down, go figure.

209
00:18:00,976 --> 00:18:08,685
and, or, or food and anything, anything just to take that anxiety, that pain, that stress
away, finding those coping mechanisms.

210
00:18:08,685 --> 00:18:10,987
that make you feel externally safe.

211
00:18:10,987 --> 00:18:17,731
And then as you said, then you have to have to to thrive, you have to start feeling
internally safe.

212
00:18:18,012 --> 00:18:23,815
And as you said, you're you're working with someone and they're helping you understand
that.

213
00:18:25,136 --> 00:18:28,849
And as you once you Yeah, once you feel safe inside, someone says, you know, you're an
idiot.

214
00:18:28,849 --> 00:18:34,503
That's like, well, so says you it just it is it's it's worn off a duck's back, isn't it?

215
00:18:34,503 --> 00:18:37,856
It just doesn't affect you anymore.

216
00:18:37,856 --> 00:18:39,076
It's irrelevant.

217
00:18:39,497 --> 00:18:46,260
know, once you've got that safeness in yourself, you can pretty much walk anywhere.

218
00:18:46,260 --> 00:18:50,482
know, it's that safeness builds into the authenticity too, right?

219
00:18:50,482 --> 00:18:52,685
you know, someone can walk up and be like, you've been an asshole.

220
00:18:52,685 --> 00:18:54,655
I'm like, yeah, I can do that sometimes, you know, right?

221
00:18:54,655 --> 00:18:55,515
What did I do this time?

222
00:18:55,515 --> 00:18:59,207
know, like, it's, but I'm not, you know, I'm not ashamed about it.

223
00:18:59,207 --> 00:19:00,347
I don't feel bad about it.

224
00:19:00,347 --> 00:19:02,152
I know it happens sometimes, right?

225
00:19:02,152 --> 00:19:04,750
So I'm going to try and find that kind of connection.

226
00:19:04,750 --> 00:19:07,601
And because I'm authentic and I'm safe in myself,

227
00:19:07,601 --> 00:19:09,616
I can, was I driving?

228
00:19:09,616 --> 00:19:12,301
know, like, did I cut you off back there?

229
00:19:12,301 --> 00:19:12,952
It's possible.

230
00:19:12,952 --> 00:19:14,885
Yeah.

231
00:19:15,124 --> 00:19:15,905
Yeah.

232
00:19:15,905 --> 00:19:25,613
And it's, it also allows you to look at your shadow, your dark side, you know, Hamish is
manipulative, full stop, I can be.

233
00:19:25,933 --> 00:19:30,757
And I like to think of it as a knife edge, you've got authenticity on the right.

234
00:19:30,823 --> 00:19:31,698
Don't know why it's right.

235
00:19:31,698 --> 00:19:32,449
That's just the way it is.

236
00:19:32,449 --> 00:19:33,460
I'm left handed.

237
00:19:33,460 --> 00:19:39,425
And on the left, you've got that attachment, you've got that, you know, I am manipulative,
because I want you to love me.

238
00:19:39,425 --> 00:19:40,456
I want you to support me.

239
00:19:40,456 --> 00:19:42,427
I want, I want, I want, I want.

240
00:19:42,651 --> 00:19:47,534
On the other side, I'm not actually manipulating, we'll use the same word, I'm
encouraging.

241
00:19:47,534 --> 00:19:48,524
What's the difference?

242
00:19:48,524 --> 00:19:58,380
I think the difference between encouraging and manipulating can be as simple as what do I
want to get out of it?

243
00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:02,382
I've, yeah, intention, absolutely.

244
00:20:02,382 --> 00:20:03,743
Yeah.

245
00:20:03,743 --> 00:20:11,647
So maybe let's have a look at that because you've talked about that importance of
authenticity, but you've got to do that not from

246
00:20:12,285 --> 00:20:18,339
I guess not from requiring from anybody or requiring of yourself.

247
00:20:18,339 --> 00:20:22,002
You you're doing it for what reason would you be authentic?

248
00:20:22,002 --> 00:20:23,603
What are the benefits?

249
00:20:23,767 --> 00:20:30,589
the reason essentially to be authentic is to, you know, kind of find your tribe, right?

250
00:20:30,589 --> 00:20:40,233
You know, be your authentic self and then you'll attract people around you that are going
to be, you know, as similar to who you are as you can find.

251
00:20:40,233 --> 00:20:48,446
You know, if you're not out there being whatever your weird or normal self is, I don't
know what normal means, but I just threw it out there because if we're going to go weird,

252
00:20:48,446 --> 00:20:50,236
we got to the other word, right?

253
00:20:50,336 --> 00:20:52,157
Then, you know, how are you going to?

254
00:20:52,157 --> 00:21:01,017
know if there are people similar to you out there, if there are people that think like
you, act like you, and have desires similar to your desires.

255
00:21:02,057 --> 00:21:04,677
Originally, that's the great point.

256
00:21:04,837 --> 00:21:20,372
The other one being the point of being authentic is so that you'll find a place where you
don't necessarily need to, well, I guess that's kind of a strange one.

257
00:21:20,372 --> 00:21:22,954
so that you can assist the people around you, assist yourself?

258
00:21:22,954 --> 00:21:26,357
I don't know, it's hard to say why to be authentic, right?

259
00:21:26,357 --> 00:21:31,001
I think it's as simple as finding your tribe and your people.

260
00:21:32,643 --> 00:21:38,988
The intention being though, to bring everyone to their highest good and their highest
growth.

261
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:42,752
That's my desire and my intention in my life.

262
00:21:42,752 --> 00:21:47,264
And that's why, you know, at times I can be someone that kind of.

263
00:21:47,264 --> 00:21:56,270
tries to shove what I know down someone's throats, be a bit pushy with like, no, all you
have to do is this, and then you'll find these steps of growth.

264
00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:59,151
And it's like, you gotta meet people where they are.

265
00:21:59,151 --> 00:22:04,375
And you can't try and elevate something or somebody.

266
00:22:04,375 --> 00:22:06,546
Well, you can't elevate anyone anyway.

267
00:22:06,546 --> 00:22:10,158
You can only help them help themselves, right?

268
00:22:10,158 --> 00:22:13,320
You cannot save any specific person.

269
00:22:13,811 --> 00:22:17,772
you can only try to help them save themselves, offer them a hand, right?

270
00:22:18,073 --> 00:22:22,034
And that's kind of where being that authentic self comes in, right?

271
00:22:22,034 --> 00:22:27,866
Because if you're in your authenticity and you know who you are, then you don't need to
fix somebody, right?

272
00:22:27,866 --> 00:22:32,238
Because I think that's kind of the shadow side of when it comes to spiritual workers.

273
00:22:32,488 --> 00:22:33,859
can help fix you.

274
00:22:33,859 --> 00:22:35,479
Like, no, no, no, no, no.

275
00:22:35,479 --> 00:22:37,760
People don't need fixing like that, right?

276
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:43,410
They just need love and the space to feel safe.

277
00:22:43,410 --> 00:22:53,273
be their authentic self because if you can provide a safe space for someone to be their
authentic self, you can't imagine the number of times I've just created the space for

278
00:22:53,273 --> 00:22:54,413
someone to be that.

279
00:22:54,413 --> 00:22:56,933
a very non-judgmental person, you know.

280
00:22:56,954 --> 00:23:02,095
And I say that in that sequence because that's the super important part, right?

281
00:23:02,095 --> 00:23:03,785
I'll tell you how much I've been an asshole.

282
00:23:03,785 --> 00:23:05,496
I'll tell you the drugs that I've done.

283
00:23:05,496 --> 00:23:09,457
I'll tell you how much of a road rage driver I've been in the past.

284
00:23:09,457 --> 00:23:11,557
I've gotten a lot better.

285
00:23:11,638 --> 00:23:13,458
I'll tell you all of that because

286
00:23:13,707 --> 00:23:15,728
I've got no shame around it anymore.

287
00:23:15,728 --> 00:23:16,518
It existed.

288
00:23:16,518 --> 00:23:17,308
It happened.

289
00:23:17,308 --> 00:23:18,488
I was there.

290
00:23:18,488 --> 00:23:23,050
And on occasion, you know, I come close to going back there sometimes, right?

291
00:23:23,050 --> 00:23:25,030
That's the temptations of life.

292
00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:37,774
But when creating a nonjudgmental safe space, you'd be surprised the amount of people that
walk into that space, tell their story, go through their entire story as you're listening

293
00:23:37,774 --> 00:23:39,314
to them, and then.

294
00:23:39,314 --> 00:23:45,358
figure out the puzzle pieces to come out of that story and find growth all on their own.

295
00:23:45,358 --> 00:23:55,905
Like not a single word said, maybe an expression, maybe a hand gesture in that space that
communicates, maybe you should think a little bit more about this spot, but really not

296
00:23:55,905 --> 00:23:59,607
much on my part just from creating the space.

297
00:23:59,727 --> 00:24:03,941
And then people change right there in front of your eyes.

298
00:24:03,941 --> 00:24:07,393
I absolutely love that.

299
00:24:08,054 --> 00:24:13,798
Yeah, that making safe spaces for people is, it's a gift, isn't it?

300
00:24:13,798 --> 00:24:14,544
It really is.

301
00:24:14,544 --> 00:24:17,280
I, that is my superpower.

302
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,183
And I got that because I never felt safe.

303
00:24:21,183 --> 00:24:22,764
You know, I just didn't.

304
00:24:22,764 --> 00:24:23,905
My dad wasn't present.

305
00:24:23,905 --> 00:24:26,146
He was busy making us a lovely home.

306
00:24:26,146 --> 00:24:27,567
My mom had, were four of us.

307
00:24:27,567 --> 00:24:28,348
I was the oldest.

308
00:24:28,348 --> 00:24:32,010
So she had four of us little buggers to run around with and contend with.

309
00:24:32,831 --> 00:24:33,449
And

310
00:24:33,449 --> 00:24:36,184
For whatever reason, Hamish didn't feel safe.

311
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:38,391
yeah, alcohol was great.

312
00:24:38,391 --> 00:24:41,216
Made me feel safe, made me feel sexy, la la la la.

313
00:24:41,455 --> 00:24:42,170
Yeah.

314
00:24:42,170 --> 00:24:47,655
The truth is I didn't feel safe and alcohol, as I said, alcohol really helped with that.

315
00:24:48,316 --> 00:24:53,005
then, yeah, in recovery in, I'm struggling here this morning.

316
00:24:53,005 --> 00:24:54,552
I'll start again.

317
00:24:55,033 --> 00:24:57,104
I just didn't feel, I didn't feel safe.

318
00:24:57,104 --> 00:25:02,379
And it took until I literally hit that rock bottom to realize that I had to do it.

319
00:25:02,379 --> 00:25:07,262
And I got encouraged and supported to feel safe and

320
00:25:07,674 --> 00:25:08,676
understand it.

321
00:25:08,676 --> 00:25:10,879
And then, know, that's what I do now with people.

322
00:25:10,879 --> 00:25:12,521
And, you know, you do the same.

323
00:25:12,521 --> 00:25:21,399
And I think it takes a trauma or an event where you have to struggle with it before you
step out of that and realize, I can do this.

324
00:25:21,399 --> 00:25:23,419
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

325
00:25:23,539 --> 00:25:33,539
I think the difficulty being that when you don't grow up in that safe environment, you're
always feeling kind of, so this I think is the roots of like codependency, right?

326
00:25:33,539 --> 00:25:36,739
Because you're looking for your parents to give you that value.

327
00:25:36,739 --> 00:25:39,879
You're looking to find that safe space, right?

328
00:25:39,879 --> 00:25:48,159
And so as you're looking for it later in life, you're still leaning on other people in a
lot of different ways to kind of try and find that who's my safe space, where's my safe

329
00:25:48,159 --> 00:25:50,258
space kind of thought process.

330
00:25:50,378 --> 00:25:56,642
And then along those lines, you're building your idea of worth and value in that area,
right?

331
00:25:56,642 --> 00:26:03,747
Like, I must not be worth anything because no one's willing to help me create this safe
space or be this safe space for me.

332
00:26:04,207 --> 00:26:14,074
And that's where, at some point in time, I had this aha moment where it was like, you
know, I was always looking for validation from somebody else.

333
00:26:14,074 --> 00:26:20,498
I'd give them my ideas and try and find that validation from them until I realized at a
certain point that like,

334
00:26:20,918 --> 00:26:23,660
and not to feel over the top with this, but I knew best.

335
00:26:23,660 --> 00:26:26,051
I knew better than the people around me.

336
00:26:26,051 --> 00:26:35,388
And I started leaning on my own thoughts and what was happening in my head for
self-validation in order to know, okay, no, this isn't safe.

337
00:26:35,388 --> 00:26:37,449
Okay, I am valuable here.

338
00:26:37,449 --> 00:26:38,870
Okay, I'm not good at this.

339
00:26:38,870 --> 00:26:40,991
Okay, actually, I'm really good at this.

340
00:26:41,252 --> 00:26:50,858
And kind of moving away from that codependent mindset, because when you're placing your
value, allowing someone else to place your value,

341
00:26:50,858 --> 00:26:56,970
then you're giving them the keys to what could be a safe space for you, which is in here,
right?

342
00:26:56,970 --> 00:27:01,109
Where your safe space originates from at the very beginning, essentially.

343
00:27:01,109 --> 00:27:01,419
Yep.

344
00:27:01,419 --> 00:27:06,391
You've just triggered about a hundred million little synapses going, Hamish is safe.

345
00:27:06,391 --> 00:27:14,453
And I have just had a massive sort of wow, awakening moment of, know, I just need to give
myself permission to be safe.

346
00:27:15,293 --> 00:27:20,262
And as you said, know, inner wisdom, trust my knowledge, don't give it all away.

347
00:27:20,262 --> 00:27:24,406
You know, I've heard this a million times, but certain things have just connected in my
head.

348
00:27:24,406 --> 00:27:27,977
So if I go off on a tangent or go vague, that's what it is.

349
00:27:27,977 --> 00:27:29,531
So that was a really

350
00:27:29,531 --> 00:27:32,090
Really, really important thing you just said there.

351
00:27:32,090 --> 00:27:36,053
I could say it's simple, it's nothing that simple is easy, is it?

352
00:27:36,574 --> 00:27:45,181
It requires softness and forgiveness, self-forgiveness and a lot of self-compassion and
naturally not listening to other people.

353
00:27:45,181 --> 00:27:55,189
I think what you said there, yeah, not listening to, sorry, Tony Robbins or other people
just going, this is another conversation.

354
00:27:55,189 --> 00:28:01,356
I realized today that all this mindset stuff is brilliant, but it's not a cure.

355
00:28:01,356 --> 00:28:03,338
It is, it it allows you to vacillate.

356
00:28:03,338 --> 00:28:07,292
know, you have to, you have to go much deeper than that, much more gently and deeper.

357
00:28:07,773 --> 00:28:09,034
Monologue over.

358
00:28:09,171 --> 00:28:10,571
yeah, yeah.

359
00:28:10,972 --> 00:28:11,452
I know.

360
00:28:11,452 --> 00:28:13,013
No, it's perfect.

361
00:28:13,733 --> 00:28:25,760
That's kind of the idea being that like the simple statements are the most powerful and
they're not the easiest ones, but they're ones that, you know, should ruminate around a

362
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,620
little bit.

363
00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:29,882
And yeah, the mindset thing is great in everything, right?

364
00:28:29,882 --> 00:28:32,464
Yeah, you want to shoot for a certain mindset.

365
00:28:32,464 --> 00:28:35,066
But really like where are you right now?

366
00:28:35,066 --> 00:28:38,609
Are you accepting the place that you're in right now and being okay with that?

367
00:28:38,609 --> 00:28:44,610
Because if you're feeling safe, you can accept the, feel like shit today and I don't feel
like talking to anyone today.

368
00:28:44,610 --> 00:28:46,206
I still have those days, right?

369
00:28:46,206 --> 00:28:47,717
Like, and I accept them, right?

370
00:28:47,717 --> 00:28:52,712
When I start to feel like shit and I don't feel like talking to anybody, I'm like, okay,
I'm gonna lean into it.

371
00:28:52,712 --> 00:28:53,933
I'm gonna watch a show.

372
00:28:53,933 --> 00:28:54,653
I'm gonna relax.

373
00:28:54,653 --> 00:28:58,237
I'm gonna keep myself in my room until my energy starts to build again.

374
00:28:58,237 --> 00:29:01,589
And then that acceptance alone half of the time.

375
00:29:01,615 --> 00:29:04,036
will allow me to come out of that in a much easier fashion.

376
00:29:04,036 --> 00:29:08,118
Sometimes I just need to be there and recuperate and that's okay too.

377
00:29:08,278 --> 00:29:14,901
It's the acceptance and the love for yourself throughout the process that's really one of
the major important things.

378
00:29:14,901 --> 00:29:25,105
And we all want to hear these words of affirmation from these, know, spiritual or
cognitive gurus and everything and that's all good and well.

379
00:29:25,105 --> 00:29:29,550
But when you start kind of like needing to hear them or kind of like,

380
00:29:29,550 --> 00:29:37,050
basing your identity around aspects of them, then it's a time to be like, what do I really
not like about myself?

381
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:42,770
Why do I feel like I have to distance myself from me so much so that I have to go there?

382
00:29:42,770 --> 00:29:52,190
And I also really liked what you said before that last question about the shadow side and
the light side, because they tie together, right?

383
00:29:52,190 --> 00:29:58,913
Like if you're looking at acceptance of self, you need to know what both sides of you look
like.

384
00:29:58,913 --> 00:30:08,035
can't take the dark thought processes that you don't want to look at and you don't like
and shelf them into a corner because that's a portion of yourself, right?

385
00:30:08,336 --> 00:30:19,729
I was driving down the road yesterday and this will be a hard admittance to admit because
this goes back to my road rage thing, Driving down the road, got super angry at somebody

386
00:30:19,729 --> 00:30:26,080
about X, Y or Z and I have this little tick that happens sometimes when I get angry,
right?

387
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,877
It's right here, I'll have a cheek lip

388
00:30:28,877 --> 00:30:33,317
Tick like like someone's put a thread there and and my cheek just goes up, right?

389
00:30:33,317 --> 00:30:43,677
It looks much worse when I'm actually it's much more obvious when I'm actually angry but
what I realized to a certain extent is in that space where I'm super angry and you know,

390
00:30:43,677 --> 00:30:55,697
I've got this road rage and I and I really do not like this person in front of me to a to
a bad point, right that tick happens and a process happens in my brain and I'm able to

391
00:30:55,697 --> 00:30:57,436
acknowledge that like

392
00:30:57,436 --> 00:31:06,418
there's bad, like I could do this, I could fly around this person or do this or that, do
some really illegal stuff and fall into like my dark shadow side.

393
00:31:06,418 --> 00:31:09,799
But I'm acknowledging that that's there with the tick, right?

394
00:31:09,799 --> 00:31:13,000
Like, I could do this bad thing right now.

395
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,801
And at the same time though, there's a choice that happens there to not do it, first off
the bat.

396
00:31:18,801 --> 00:31:25,513
And then there's also an acknowledgement that that's okay, that it happened, that that
place exists within me.

397
00:31:25,993 --> 00:31:36,247
Because honestly, in a lot of ways, you're not a peaceful person if you're not capable of
being a harmful person.

398
00:31:36,287 --> 00:31:38,778
That is actually a defense mechanism for us.

399
00:31:38,778 --> 00:31:42,890
So God forbid something horrible was to happen around you.

400
00:31:43,103 --> 00:31:48,733
That is that shadow side, that dark side that would be looking out for us in that space.

401
00:31:48,733 --> 00:31:54,595
If you are capable of harm and not doing harm, that makes you a peaceful person.

402
00:31:54,975 --> 00:31:56,695
There's a point to that, right?

403
00:31:56,695 --> 00:32:00,676
Our bodies, you need to have the ability to protect yourself at some point in time.

404
00:32:00,676 --> 00:32:08,218
God forbid something really horrible happens over here in the States and all of a sudden
our government is really against us, blah, blah, right?

405
00:32:08,218 --> 00:32:10,479
I need to know that I've got the side.

406
00:32:10,479 --> 00:32:16,860
It makes me feel safe to know that if that were to happen, I would be able to feel like I
can defend myself.

407
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:23,592
And so acknowledging and accepting that shadow side and not trying to shove it into a box
in the corner.

408
00:32:23,612 --> 00:32:28,206
really helps us expand on the positive aspects, right?

409
00:32:28,206 --> 00:32:32,840
There is no difference between good and bad there per se, right?

410
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:34,571
Because those are moral arguments.

411
00:32:34,571 --> 00:32:38,114
Yes, there are things you should do to come correct and there are things that you can't
do.

412
00:32:38,114 --> 00:32:43,198
There are incorrect things in today's society, but they all exist for a reason.

413
00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:47,322
And building off of that, they all kind of are us.

414
00:32:47,322 --> 00:32:52,456
So we're shoving that portion of that shadow self into a box in the corner.

415
00:32:52,500 --> 00:33:00,021
then you're saying a part of you is not good, a part of you is bad, a part of you should
not exist, and you're trying to amputate it, right?

416
00:33:00,302 --> 00:33:05,351
And how's that really gonna look for your overall feeling of safety, especially if you're
warring against yourself?

417
00:33:05,351 --> 00:33:06,562
Fabulous.

418
00:33:06,562 --> 00:33:09,504
Yeah.

419
00:33:09,705 --> 00:33:16,830
mean, going back to your driving, dickhead, lalalala, idiot in front of you driving like
all this kind of stuff.

420
00:33:16,830 --> 00:33:18,582
For some reason, he stands on his brakes.

421
00:33:18,582 --> 00:33:21,153
You know, you can go and go around him.

422
00:33:22,535 --> 00:33:24,677
Yeah, your dark side said you can go around him.

423
00:33:24,677 --> 00:33:26,538
I I love that.

424
00:33:26,538 --> 00:33:28,440
And that's what Jordan Peterson says, isn't it?

425
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,314
He says, I like dangerous people who know they can defend themselves.

426
00:33:33,314 --> 00:33:35,225
They know they can be violent.

427
00:33:35,463 --> 00:33:36,974
but choose not to.

428
00:33:37,315 --> 00:33:43,040
Yeah, you know, the wolf can kill, it'll only do it when necessary to protect.

429
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:52,319
Yeah, I think that is, I love that, because you are, are balancing that side of you,
you're acknowledging your dark side.

430
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:56,404
I mean, that is one of the good things I had to do in rehab, is I had to look at...

431
00:33:56,404 --> 00:34:03,427
a large pile of imperfections and go, yep, God, do I really have to admit that to myself?

432
00:34:03,587 --> 00:34:04,798
You know, yes, I did that.

433
00:34:04,798 --> 00:34:06,728
Yes, I did that as well.

434
00:34:07,249 --> 00:34:11,991
And then understanding why and then realizing that, you know, they are actually just part
of who I am.

435
00:34:11,991 --> 00:34:13,391
I don't have to do them anymore.

436
00:34:13,391 --> 00:34:15,992
I just did them then because I didn't know better.

437
00:34:17,913 --> 00:34:21,866
And I think, I think part of that goes right back to

438
00:34:22,965 --> 00:34:25,116
That goes right back to these coping strategies.

439
00:34:25,116 --> 00:34:26,287
We didn't know better.

440
00:34:26,287 --> 00:34:29,799
You didn't know better when you found your dad's pills.

441
00:34:29,799 --> 00:34:31,380
Hey, let's have a laugh.

442
00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:37,122
Hamish didn't know better that the alcohol was going to just chip away all of his moral
compass.

443
00:34:37,223 --> 00:34:38,304
It kept me alive.

444
00:34:38,304 --> 00:34:39,244
It kept you alive.

445
00:34:39,244 --> 00:34:40,735
helped have a nice sense of things.

446
00:34:40,735 --> 00:34:44,138
So, you know, it's, it's what's happened.

447
00:34:44,138 --> 00:34:47,799
And then, you know, you, you and I, we're making sense of it.

448
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:48,940
And

449
00:34:51,735 --> 00:34:57,450
by the sounds of it, certainly I have, certainly you have, you have stopped requiring
those coping strategies.

450
00:34:58,332 --> 00:35:00,875
I want to go back to that because that's fascinating.

451
00:35:00,875 --> 00:35:08,002
How did you begin to realize that these various habits were unhealthy?

452
00:35:08,082 --> 00:35:14,590
Did it get to a dark point or was it an awareness before you got there?

453
00:35:14,590 --> 00:35:16,532
It was kind of an awareness before I got there.

454
00:35:16,532 --> 00:35:26,661
I had kind of always kind of had these feelings in the back of my head, you know, trying
to distance myself from looking at myself like I was an addict, right?

455
00:35:26,661 --> 00:35:31,055
Like for the longest time there, I never called myself that.

456
00:35:31,055 --> 00:35:40,302
And, you know, even still I have qualms with that word addiction because there's so much,
you know, shame that's heaped onto people that are addicts.

457
00:35:40,643 --> 00:35:41,704
And I think,

458
00:35:41,755 --> 00:35:48,408
over a course of a many number of years, little by little, I found myself kind of in and
out, right?

459
00:35:48,408 --> 00:36:00,352
So, know, go into it, do the thing, work through the addictions as best I could or would
during that period of time, come out a little bit, you know, feel like, you know, I'm this

460
00:36:00,352 --> 00:36:10,066
new person or different or whatever that I didn't have this tick in the back of my brain
that wanted to be, this itch that wanted to be scratched every other day or every couple

461
00:36:10,066 --> 00:36:11,206
of days or.

462
00:36:11,432 --> 00:36:19,219
and then jump back into it again for another six, eight, 12 months or whatever.

463
00:36:19,219 --> 00:36:25,874
It's actually kind of funny not funny, know, chef industry, blah, blah.

464
00:36:25,874 --> 00:36:34,712
Even when I worked out of the chef industry, I don't know what it is about how friendly my
personality can be sometimes, but there will always be that one person that will pull me

465
00:36:34,712 --> 00:36:39,775
on the side at some point when we're talking and be like, yeah, do you like skiing?

466
00:36:40,136 --> 00:36:41,886
What the fuck man?

467
00:36:41,886 --> 00:36:43,606
Do I really look like that guy?

468
00:36:43,606 --> 00:36:45,316
Like Jesus, like fuck.

469
00:36:45,316 --> 00:36:53,716
Like come on, like I didn't know anybody around that had any of that stuff for how long
and now someone's gonna come poke me again.

470
00:36:55,616 --> 00:37:01,696
But yeah, but there are the gratifying moments are in those spaces are when you're like,
you know what?

471
00:37:01,696 --> 00:37:07,316
No, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong, this happened a handful of times, right?

472
00:37:07,436 --> 00:37:09,326
Throughout that process, but.

473
00:37:09,326 --> 00:37:10,287
It's all cycling.

474
00:37:10,287 --> 00:37:17,682
And my help when I think about it, I don't think that, you know, I fell each time I went
back to it, right?

475
00:37:17,682 --> 00:37:25,396
I don't think I fell from grace, so that some people say, it was just the spiral, right?

476
00:37:25,617 --> 00:37:29,419
And people think of a spiral as the bad thing because you're circling and going down.

477
00:37:29,419 --> 00:37:31,641
No, what's happening is you're going up.

478
00:37:31,641 --> 00:37:38,181
So when you think of the spiral, you have to think, I've been here before, and I'm
learning this again so I can nail this down.

479
00:37:38,181 --> 00:37:40,551
Right now I've come back to this spiral with experience.

480
00:37:40,551 --> 00:37:48,341
If you come back knowing that all the things you did before were to help you here and get
through it in a different way, right?

481
00:37:48,581 --> 00:37:59,741
Because I think the long end game being that you don't want to ever return there because
God forbid, you know, you finally think you're done with this thing.

482
00:37:59,741 --> 00:38:01,131
You're healed, right?

483
00:38:01,131 --> 00:38:03,671
Which is, you know, we're all in a healing process.

484
00:38:03,671 --> 00:38:06,757
So I feel like for me, a lot of the times one of those

485
00:38:06,757 --> 00:38:08,677
big yellow flags is I'm healed.

486
00:38:08,677 --> 00:38:11,297
I have healed all of my personal trauma.

487
00:38:11,297 --> 00:38:21,437
like, hopefully, yes, hopefully, but most of the times when I hear that it doesn't
necessarily, it correlates to I'd like to not think about this anymore and I'd like to

488
00:38:21,437 --> 00:38:23,897
think that I'm done with it.

489
00:38:24,457 --> 00:38:36,421
So in that process, like, you if you had, if you don't go through those cycles again, in
shorter periods of time, you know, God forbid four, five, eight years down the road,

490
00:38:36,421 --> 00:38:43,281
This thing comes back up again, something in life triggers you to kind of pull your house
of cards down a bit in your brain.

491
00:38:43,281 --> 00:38:53,981
You return to this substance again, and now all of a sudden you push yourself so far that
you're gone, either physically or mentally gone and putting yourself on the streets in

492
00:38:53,981 --> 00:38:56,101
some kind of junkie mindset or something, right?

493
00:38:56,101 --> 00:39:04,801
So going through these cycles in a shorter period of time can help give us the steps
necessary to remain outside of them, right?

494
00:39:04,801 --> 00:39:06,146
Like the whole goal being,

495
00:39:06,146 --> 00:39:07,557
I don't need substances.

496
00:39:07,557 --> 00:39:18,507
And I can even correlate that on the spiritual side with certain things like hallucinogens
that have gone through as well, because hallucinogens for me were a way of unlocking some

497
00:39:18,507 --> 00:39:20,789
of those mindsets in the same area.

498
00:39:20,789 --> 00:39:23,712
And I'll say with the same thing with hallucinogens, right?

499
00:39:23,712 --> 00:39:28,276
Yes, they were beautiful keys to help me find a universal energy.

500
00:39:28,276 --> 00:39:33,400
But I'm almost to the point, I'm pretty much to the point that I don't.

501
00:39:33,540 --> 00:39:46,340
I have that and have found that connection without needing a substance to get me there,
Even in indigenous times, right, these were just a means to an end to let you see and find

502
00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:53,480
that connection to show you something so that faith or belief wasn't necessarily needed,
right?

503
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,160
Like I know that there's this energy out there, right?

504
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,206
I don't need this beautiful,

505
00:40:00,496 --> 00:40:03,537
mushroom substance to connect to that substance anymore.

506
00:40:03,537 --> 00:40:05,018
don't need that.

507
00:40:05,018 --> 00:40:07,239
I find it in my everyday life.

508
00:40:07,739 --> 00:40:11,161
And it's the same thing with connection outside of drugs, right?

509
00:40:12,141 --> 00:40:18,784
You work through it and then when you're on the other side of it, you're able to find
those people.

510
00:40:19,044 --> 00:40:28,048
We found ourselves, we've been through this so many different times and on that random
Facebook group that you posted in that day,

511
00:40:28,095 --> 00:40:37,838
Out of all the other kind of scammy, pay to play kind of speakers that are asking for
speakers on there, I picked your post out very specifically and we were able to connect

512
00:40:37,838 --> 00:40:40,868
because we could see each other in that kind of way.

513
00:40:41,049 --> 00:40:44,470
That's how it works out in the rest of the world.

514
00:40:44,610 --> 00:40:53,082
I also found that through all of these processes, it has given me the ability to talk and
assist other people through this.

515
00:40:53,082 --> 00:40:56,563
Coming across someone, the person that does offer me that,

516
00:40:57,003 --> 00:41:05,375
you know, aside, you know, offering me, offering me drugs randomly, you know, without even
having brought them up at any point in time, I'm able to find ways to like minister to

517
00:41:05,375 --> 00:41:06,016
that person.

518
00:41:06,016 --> 00:41:09,900
Cause now at this point in time, you've shown me your hand of cards, right?

519
00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:19,980
So now I can like, I can kind of let down the veneer of being in a professional
environment or being a professional person and kind of connect with you on a one-on-one

520
00:41:19,980 --> 00:41:22,360
level because I've been there, right?

521
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,577
And then I can also kind of like,

522
00:41:24,577 --> 00:41:29,977
find through little tiny guiding questions why you're there, what's brought you there.

523
00:41:29,977 --> 00:41:38,037
And, you know, because I didn't judge you about what you asked me, you know, because I
didn't judge you that you're doing this thing or this substance, you're going to tell me

524
00:41:38,037 --> 00:41:39,447
more than you're going to tell anyone else.

525
00:41:39,447 --> 00:41:48,557
And it allows me to find that really common comfortable space where, you know, we can talk
about our traumas or we can talk about our stories.

526
00:41:48,557 --> 00:41:53,129
And I get to listen and hear and find and pinpoint, know,

527
00:41:53,129 --> 00:41:54,400
Who made you feel unsafe?

528
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:56,801
Where are your vulnerabilities coming at?

529
00:41:57,522 --> 00:41:59,883
And how can we, know, how did I work through those things?

530
00:41:59,883 --> 00:42:06,968
That's also, you know, the best way to minister is I don't sit there and, well, you should
try this or why don't you try that?

531
00:42:06,968 --> 00:42:08,268
I do, actually.

532
00:42:08,669 --> 00:42:09,319
I misspoke.

533
00:42:09,319 --> 00:42:12,872
I do and have done that in the past at times.

534
00:42:12,872 --> 00:42:16,054
But the more powerful ways are to speak about your own story.

535
00:42:16,054 --> 00:42:18,175
Well, I worked through it this way.

536
00:42:18,175 --> 00:42:20,596
I found my way through it that way.

537
00:42:21,119 --> 00:42:22,664
I do this men's group.

538
00:42:22,664 --> 00:42:25,255
that I joined last year.

539
00:42:26,095 --> 00:42:30,296
And I had never joined a men's group before in my entire life.

540
00:42:30,296 --> 00:42:35,538
I had always looked at them and the people around them seemed quite pretentious to me.

541
00:42:35,538 --> 00:42:44,550
And they seemed like, I don't know, some of them were, you know, cosigned to the alpha
mentality thing.

542
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:45,120
I don't know.

543
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,641
There's lots of things that don't sit right with that mindset.

544
00:42:48,641 --> 00:42:52,112
I don't just, the words and the attitude anyway.

545
00:42:52,624 --> 00:43:02,959
So they, the men's group really ever felt very comfortable with me because the people
didn't feel very genuine or coming from a place with the best of intentions.

546
00:43:03,260 --> 00:43:11,975
It seemed like the men that ran them wanted to feel big and wanted to feel like they had
something to give and that's where they were coming from.

547
00:43:11,975 --> 00:43:13,605
It was an ego place.

548
00:43:13,806 --> 00:43:21,860
This place that I found was much different and it gave me a whole bunch of different tools
in this category, right?

549
00:43:22,354 --> 00:43:33,218
when we're talking about identifying what our stories are and how we can connect with
others, coming from a place of me, I, right?

550
00:43:33,639 --> 00:43:38,907
One of the first rules going into the men's group is that there's no general you
statements.

551
00:43:38,907 --> 00:43:42,002
Like, you know when you get angry, you're driving down the road and blah, blah, blah?

552
00:43:42,002 --> 00:43:50,505
No, it's all I statements when I get angry and I'm driving down the road to take ownership
of those feelings and what's happening inside of us.

553
00:43:51,343 --> 00:43:53,163
At first I was like, okay, yeah, that's cool.

554
00:43:53,163 --> 00:43:54,574
seems kind of silly, but whatever.

555
00:43:54,574 --> 00:44:01,766
But it's actually one of the most powerful things that I have experienced in a group, you
know, kind of setting like that, right?

556
00:44:01,766 --> 00:44:06,955
Because I've had to stop myself even after, you know, close to a year of being a part of
this group.

557
00:44:06,955 --> 00:44:17,920
I've even had to stop myself and be like, wait, when I did this or when I did that, you
know, and take ownership of those feelings without feeling shame around it, right?

558
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:19,280
That's that's

559
00:44:19,452 --> 00:44:29,552
you know, not feeling shame around what we're going through and what we've been through
and what, not giving shame to what someone's story is in front of us.

560
00:44:29,592 --> 00:44:32,272
I can't, I don't know if I can say how powerful it is.

561
00:44:32,272 --> 00:44:37,912
I don't think I can, I don't think I can overstate how powerful that actually is.

562
00:44:38,612 --> 00:44:41,092
Wait, I lost track of where I was going.

563
00:44:45,272 --> 00:44:46,692
okay.

564
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,359
the I statement thing I think is super powerful.

565
00:44:50,359 --> 00:44:55,988
I'm in a community, a shamanic community, and that is the requirement.

566
00:44:55,988 --> 00:45:00,122
And it does, it stops me judging you, stops you judging me.

567
00:45:00,122 --> 00:45:00,982
It's brilliant.

568
00:45:00,982 --> 00:45:08,669
I think, know, shame is a favorite topic of mine because it is...

569
00:45:09,307 --> 00:45:11,940
something that really kept me struggling for a long time.

570
00:45:11,940 --> 00:45:13,883
you you've you've really nailed it there.

571
00:45:13,883 --> 00:45:14,714
We don't need it.

572
00:45:14,714 --> 00:45:16,746
It's self inflicted at the end of the day.

573
00:45:16,746 --> 00:45:20,310
It is I am a bad person, which is nonsense.

574
00:45:21,391 --> 00:45:27,166
I found there's, and people that are looking to grow and be intentional, it's not
necessary.

575
00:45:27,166 --> 00:45:31,800
is the people that should be looped on the people that are doing bad things, right?

576
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,454
Like it exists for a reason, but it doesn't exist for us.

577
00:45:35,454 --> 00:45:38,526
It doesn't exist, it shouldn't exist for you and me, right?

578
00:45:38,847 --> 00:45:40,758
That's kind of my belief that comes around to it.

579
00:45:40,758 --> 00:45:47,085
Like, yeah, if you're going out there doing really bad things in a medicineally fashion,
you probably should feel some shame around that, but.

580
00:45:47,085 --> 00:45:47,982
So yeah.

581
00:45:47,982 --> 00:45:48,732
Yeah.

582
00:45:49,193 --> 00:45:53,744
Now, again, that's sort of intentional, isn't it?

583
00:45:53,744 --> 00:46:03,799
You're deliberately being, you're choosing to be unkind, to be aggressive rather than
being human and slipping.

584
00:46:04,979 --> 00:46:07,340
And I think that is a big difference.

585
00:46:07,340 --> 00:46:16,144
know, an apology without a lie, no, try again, an apology without a behavioral change is a
lie.

586
00:46:16,378 --> 00:46:19,751
However, we do slip, you we're not perfect.

587
00:46:19,751 --> 00:46:23,394
So you're allowed to slip, apologize and just try and change again.

588
00:46:23,394 --> 00:46:27,417
You know, it's, it's, it is, it's subtle.

589
00:46:27,417 --> 00:46:28,438
It's being subtle.

590
00:46:28,438 --> 00:46:29,389
It's being kind.

591
00:46:29,389 --> 00:46:30,290
It's being gentle.

592
00:46:30,290 --> 00:46:31,940
It's forgiving yourself.

593
00:46:32,822 --> 00:46:35,304
yeah, it's, it's what I'm realizing.

594
00:46:35,304 --> 00:46:40,138
It is all about being so incredibly gentle that it's almost horizontal.

595
00:46:40,138 --> 00:46:40,888
yeah.

596
00:46:40,965 --> 00:46:42,905
yeah, yeah.

597
00:46:43,545 --> 00:46:55,685
In that space, a powerful routine that I learned not long ago was standing in front of the
mirror every single morning and telling yourself you love yourself 10 times.

598
00:46:55,685 --> 00:46:59,965
Stand in front of the mirror, look at yourself in the eyes, and tell yourself you love
yourself.

599
00:46:59,965 --> 00:47:07,685
And it's funny too, the first couple of times that I did that, the first couple of days in
a row that I did that, I got really teary-eyed as I was going through it.

600
00:47:07,685 --> 00:47:08,749
And then I went through

601
00:47:08,749 --> 00:47:14,291
quite a number of months where it was just like regular, like, okay, I love you, man, I
love you, I love you, you know, I love you.

602
00:47:14,669 --> 00:47:22,874
And you'll find in half those little moments where it's like random days where you find
more depth in saying that and more depth in your eyes as you're saying that.

603
00:47:22,874 --> 00:47:30,227
It's like, you know, for eight, 12, 20 months, whatever, I've been fine just being like,
hey, love you, I love you, I love you, you know, just regular.

604
00:47:30,227 --> 00:47:35,900
And then that one day will hit and you'll find some kind of deeper, deeper feeling there
behind your own eyes.

605
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:37,192
And it just hits.

606
00:47:37,192 --> 00:47:44,010
so much harder and you just realize in that moment that like, I could take all of these
days have been great.

607
00:47:44,010 --> 00:47:46,421
They've been so amazing and they led up to this point.

608
00:47:46,421 --> 00:47:51,336
And now it's like the world is on the world's, you know, blowing up like it's getting
bigger, right?

609
00:47:51,336 --> 00:47:56,191
Like you're accomplishing more and you find that extra little bit of love for yourself.

610
00:47:56,191 --> 00:48:00,456
And, know, and you've had in the past 20 months or so that you've been doing it.

611
00:48:00,456 --> 00:48:01,056
I like that.

612
00:48:01,056 --> 00:48:03,406
Yeah, I do that from time to time.

613
00:48:03,406 --> 00:48:05,157
I haven't tried it 10 times.

614
00:48:05,197 --> 00:48:09,118
I will do that once we finish chatting and just see.

615
00:48:09,999 --> 00:48:20,912
It's all those things just to keep you out of being unconscious, make you that little bit
more intentional, make you that little bit more aware of who you are, what you're doing

616
00:48:20,912 --> 00:48:22,525
and yeah, getting curious about it.

617
00:48:22,525 --> 00:48:23,391
Yeah.

618
00:48:23,391 --> 00:48:24,642
yeah, yeah.

619
00:48:24,642 --> 00:48:26,323
Well, connecting with self.

620
00:48:27,585 --> 00:48:32,839
Yeah, well, it's good to say connecting with self and, you know, who you would and who
your desires are.

621
00:48:32,839 --> 00:48:36,273
That's what brings us, you know, back to being conscious again.

622
00:48:36,273 --> 00:48:40,867
It's okay to go through short periods of times of unconsciousness, I guess, right?

623
00:48:40,867 --> 00:48:44,532
Like there's a drift through capitalism, but ultimately, yeah, connecting.

624
00:48:44,532 --> 00:48:50,780
Joshua, tell me a little bit more about what you do now when it comes to helping people
and working with people.

625
00:48:51,337 --> 00:48:53,188
Yeah, absolutely.

626
00:48:53,368 --> 00:49:03,172
So I created a website that I have recently and there's one, so I'll tell it along the
story.

627
00:49:03,473 --> 00:49:16,498
I've worked with the largest holistic festival in my county and for 10 or 13 years now,
KarmaFest is in the area and coming up through them, I've taught a number of classes with

628
00:49:16,498 --> 00:49:17,278
them.

629
00:49:18,001 --> 00:49:25,888
Spiritually Position classes, Spiritual and Energetic Protection is the first class that I
taught, which was a boundaries class as well.

630
00:49:25,888 --> 00:49:37,537
And then the second one that I taught was a wisdom workshop about discernment and about
how, you know, it's a different level of critical thinking when you're discerning through

631
00:49:37,537 --> 00:49:37,978
something.

632
00:49:37,978 --> 00:49:45,154
And those two things have given me the ability to really minister and mentor to people
one-on-one.

633
00:49:45,154 --> 00:49:47,185
I'm a very passionate mentor.

634
00:49:47,287 --> 00:49:50,748
I created a website called Inner Puzzle Pieces.

635
00:49:51,309 --> 00:49:58,692
So what I like to do is I like to assist people through figuring out where they are right
now.

636
00:49:58,692 --> 00:50:05,305
So whatever you're going through, whatever your experiences are, whatever you feel is
holding you back, I'm there for it.

637
00:50:05,305 --> 00:50:11,077
there for listening to it as much as I can and figuring out your path, right?

638
00:50:11,077 --> 00:50:13,058
And I don't mean to say it's like your fated path.

639
00:50:13,058 --> 00:50:16,639
I mean like the mental path that you're walking down.

640
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:19,010
and where you're at on that mental path, right?

641
00:50:19,010 --> 00:50:21,592
It's not about what your fate is.

642
00:50:21,592 --> 00:50:25,474
It's not about what you're looking to do physically in the world around you.

643
00:50:25,474 --> 00:50:34,018
It's the path of emotionally, mentally, and physically and rationally, where are you at on
your path?

644
00:50:34,018 --> 00:50:36,139
And that path is whatever, right?

645
00:50:36,139 --> 00:50:38,260
Capitalism, create whatever you want.

646
00:50:39,101 --> 00:50:45,366
Identifying where you are and where are the kind of missing holes in the structure that is
your...

647
00:50:45,366 --> 00:50:53,954
individuality, your way you look at your authenticity, the way you look at your
authenticity, Where your vision is, how clear your vision is there.

648
00:50:55,035 --> 00:51:03,212
And kind of either A, find a puzzle piece to help you figure out where it goes, or B,
figure out where the puzzle piece goes.

649
00:51:03,212 --> 00:51:06,704
Those are the two different things that I like to identify in my work.

650
00:51:06,704 --> 00:51:11,692
I do one-on-one work with people, video chat or audio, depending on what their needs are.

651
00:51:11,692 --> 00:51:14,130
I usually prefer video.

652
00:51:15,075 --> 00:51:21,761
And then from there, we work through a half hour, 45 minutes to see if I've got something
that I can give you.

653
00:51:21,761 --> 00:51:25,183
I do a free consultation if I can help you.

654
00:51:25,544 --> 00:51:35,113
If I can see that you're working your way around this puzzle piece or I can see that you
have a puzzle piece and now we have to just figure out where to put the puzzle piece at.

655
00:51:35,894 --> 00:51:39,593
Then we'll move forward and we work with about...

656
00:51:39,593 --> 00:51:49,293
I try to do an hour and 15 hour and a half minute sessions, but it ends up turning into
closer to two, two hour long sessions, depending, no matter what I do, almost like,

657
00:51:49,293 --> 00:51:50,653
because it's that in depth, right?

658
00:51:50,653 --> 00:51:54,983
If you're having those aha moments and we're right there, what?

659
00:51:54,983 --> 00:51:56,513
sorry, guys, we're at an hour and 15.

660
00:51:56,513 --> 00:51:57,653
I can't cut anyone off.

661
00:51:57,653 --> 00:52:00,413
I love people way too much to do that.

662
00:52:00,413 --> 00:52:09,373
And I've done this with a number of different folks that will credit me for assisting them
and finding whatever this puzzle piece is.

663
00:52:09,373 --> 00:52:15,497
We'll define it, we'll sit there and we'll define it for as long as they need to in order
to work through it.

664
00:52:15,658 --> 00:52:19,411
And this can come with addiction, this can come with codependency.

665
00:52:19,411 --> 00:52:22,293
I have a good amount of experience with mental health stuff.

666
00:52:22,293 --> 00:52:23,904
I am not a therapist.

667
00:52:23,904 --> 00:52:26,947
Although I have had therapists tell me that I'm very good at what I do.

668
00:52:26,947 --> 00:52:29,108
I've worked with therapists before.

669
00:52:29,108 --> 00:52:34,923
Even my current therapist is like, you're going back to school for psychology and that's
like, that's like it.

670
00:52:34,923 --> 00:52:35,773
So.

671
00:52:35,924 --> 00:52:40,257
I was working with a therapist not long ago who wanted me to do her text messaging
service.

672
00:52:40,257 --> 00:52:49,672
She has this text messaging service that doesn't require the license or the certification
to actually be the one messaging back and forth between the people.

673
00:52:49,692 --> 00:52:55,735
And she wanted to position me in that area because she knows that I'm pretty good at what
I do.

674
00:52:56,216 --> 00:53:03,119
I'm not a therapist or counselor, but I have a lot of experience going through those
things myself.

675
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:04,424
And it lends to

676
00:53:04,424 --> 00:53:08,066
stronger capabilities of assisting other people through that.

677
00:53:09,106 --> 00:53:10,927
Yeah, in a lot of different ways.

678
00:53:10,927 --> 00:53:13,489
And I help, I do relationship studies too, I've helped.

679
00:53:13,489 --> 00:53:14,909
So this is really funny.

680
00:53:14,909 --> 00:53:17,050
This is kind of a funny story.

681
00:53:17,051 --> 00:53:22,923
A friend of mine came to me a number of months ago, probably like eight, nine, nine months
ago.

682
00:53:22,923 --> 00:53:26,895
And I've worked with, she's been one of my best friends for a long period of time.

683
00:53:26,895 --> 00:53:28,000
She's wonderful.

684
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,660
And she was asking me all those questions about this guy that she's been seeing, right?

685
00:53:31,660 --> 00:53:36,200
It's nothing serious and casual, but she just wanted to understand what his thinking was.

686
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:43,640
And so I, you know, answer the questions, give her a lot of different nuance behind what
the guy's thinking or what he's not thinking, because, you know, sometimes we don't think,

687
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:44,659
right?

688
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:56,000
And, you know, this went on for a couple of months there, I don't know, three, four, five
months, until I realized like, I'm my female best friend's male translator.

689
00:53:57,536 --> 00:54:01,578
So in some ways or another, I did that for a couple of other women that I know as well.

690
00:54:01,578 --> 00:54:06,780
So I mean, if you need a male translator, I will give you the nuance because that's not
understood, right?

691
00:54:06,780 --> 00:54:13,523
Like how many quality male advocates do we really have out there in the world, you know?

692
00:54:13,523 --> 00:54:22,467
And joining the men's group, I bring that back around because it's men teaching men about
emotional intelligence, right?

693
00:54:22,467 --> 00:54:24,384
And that's what I like to share.

694
00:54:24,384 --> 00:54:32,464
If we're going to sit down and we're going to talk and we have these, you know, puzzle
piece sessions, we'll inevitably end up getting into aspects of emotional intelligence.

695
00:54:32,464 --> 00:54:38,294
And if you're out there watching, you're you know, you're a guy that's not had much help
working through that.

696
00:54:38,294 --> 00:54:40,074
Like, I'm there.

697
00:54:40,074 --> 00:54:40,904
I'm there with you.

698
00:54:40,904 --> 00:54:44,364
We've only ever been taught how to deal with emotions by by women.

699
00:54:44,364 --> 00:54:45,314
No offense to them.

700
00:54:45,314 --> 00:54:48,254
They are the only ones that could do it during those periods of time.

701
00:54:48,254 --> 00:54:50,104
And I'm so grateful for my mom.

702
00:54:50,104 --> 00:54:51,084
So grateful.

703
00:54:51,084 --> 00:54:52,244
my God.

704
00:54:52,244 --> 00:54:53,294
But.

705
00:54:53,490 --> 00:55:00,495
Moving forward, we have to kind of figure out some of this for ourselves and figure out,
you know, what is useful in that space.

706
00:55:00,495 --> 00:55:01,096
Yeah.

707
00:55:01,096 --> 00:55:02,698
And build off of that.

708
00:55:03,641 --> 00:55:04,763
And yeah.

709
00:55:04,763 --> 00:55:05,564
Yeah.

710
00:55:06,381 --> 00:55:11,077
So how can these guys who need some emotional intelligence find you?

711
00:55:11,077 --> 00:55:19,092
Because it's incredibly important to have that measure of emotional intelligence because
you're just able to understand yourself, aren't you?

712
00:55:19,092 --> 00:55:21,040
Yeah, yeah.

713
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:23,831
Well, so you're good.

714
00:55:23,831 --> 00:55:24,283
Yeah.

715
00:55:24,283 --> 00:55:25,045
find you then?

716
00:55:25,045 --> 00:55:28,042
You've mentioned the website, but where else can people find you?

717
00:55:28,406 --> 00:55:29,386
so I'm on Facebook.

718
00:55:29,386 --> 00:55:33,296
I'm still really just very new at starting out at this.

719
00:55:33,296 --> 00:55:38,836
So Joshua Ashton on Facebook, that's A S H T O N public profile.

720
00:55:38,836 --> 00:55:39,946
I don't have a lot of followers.

721
00:55:39,946 --> 00:55:42,756
I'd administer everything there myself.

722
00:55:42,876 --> 00:55:46,576
feel free to follow me, friend me, message me directly.

723
00:55:46,576 --> 00:55:56,076
I talk to as many people as I can, and I'm always willing to talk to people, until I
figure out if, or if they are not scammers in that space.

724
00:55:56,176 --> 00:55:56,916
So

725
00:55:56,916 --> 00:56:02,841
Don't worry, just send me a message and I'd love to speak to anybody on my website there.

726
00:56:02,841 --> 00:56:10,507
The booking software is not the best, but my information is there as well,
interpuzzlepieces.com or Joshua Ashton on Facebook.

727
00:56:10,507 --> 00:56:17,693
My Instagram is not that well set up yet, but you can message me there, jberg713 if you're
not on Facebook.

728
00:56:18,274 --> 00:56:24,268
Yeah, I spread myself around and I'm willing to listen and talk to anyone.

729
00:56:24,268 --> 00:56:26,506
I'm just getting this off the ground and

730
00:56:26,506 --> 00:56:27,637
I just love the process.

731
00:56:27,637 --> 00:56:36,407
I love the process so much that I do, you know, I do a lot of work with my friends because
I love them, the process and the experience.

732
00:56:36,407 --> 00:56:37,628
So, yeah.

733
00:56:38,349 --> 00:56:40,149
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant.

734
00:56:40,149 --> 00:56:41,719
Yeah, I think that's great.

735
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:47,499
It is so important and you've experienced stuff.

736
00:56:47,499 --> 00:56:56,329
You haven't necessarily got that piece of paper that says, Joshua can do this for you, but
you've lived it and that is what is powerful.

737
00:56:56,489 --> 00:56:57,989
That's the authenticity.

738
00:56:57,989 --> 00:57:02,169
That means that people can go, yeah, I can relate to you because you've lived it.

739
00:57:02,169 --> 00:57:03,149
You've put your feet in it.

740
00:57:03,149 --> 00:57:04,229
You've fallen over in it.

741
00:57:04,229 --> 00:57:05,429
You've clambered back out again.

742
00:57:05,429 --> 00:57:07,329
You've fallen back into it.

743
00:57:07,531 --> 00:57:09,425
You've looked at it from another direction.

744
00:57:09,425 --> 00:57:13,252
Yeah, I think that's think that's fabulous and I love what you're doing.

745
00:57:13,252 --> 00:57:18,656
That reminds me of a really powerful story that I always think about when it comes back to
this.

746
00:57:19,317 --> 00:57:25,152
So there was this man in a hole, and he was shouting out for help, right?

747
00:57:25,152 --> 00:57:30,276
And every single passerby would walk by the hole and say something to him.

748
00:57:30,276 --> 00:57:32,547
you need to do this to get out of that hole, or you need to do that.

749
00:57:32,547 --> 00:57:34,648
And then they would keep on walking, right?

750
00:57:34,851 --> 00:57:40,733
And at some point in time, this guy walks by, and this man's in the hole is yelling out to
this guy.

751
00:57:41,166 --> 00:57:44,499
This guy jumps down in the hole with the man, right?

752
00:57:44,499 --> 00:57:46,151
He's, well, what would you do that for?

753
00:57:46,151 --> 00:57:47,433
Now we're both in the hole.

754
00:57:47,433 --> 00:57:50,245
And the guy says, don't worry, I've been here before.

755
00:57:50,245 --> 00:57:57,322
That's kind of, that's kind of, yeah.

756
00:57:58,259 --> 00:58:01,824
I think you've already answered my last question, but maybe not.

757
00:58:01,824 --> 00:58:11,006
What is your superpower that you have got from addressing all of your coping strategies
and self-medicating and coming out the other side?

758
00:58:11,063 --> 00:58:11,883
Hmm.

759
00:58:13,368 --> 00:58:14,290
Let's see.

760
00:58:14,290 --> 00:58:21,274
It can be burst in a lot of different ways, but I think that my superpower is grounding.

761
00:58:21,274 --> 00:58:28,948
because not even just for myself, but for everyone that's around me in that space,
creating the space is grounding.

762
00:58:28,948 --> 00:58:37,553
So when you ground and you bring yourself, you release all of that energy out, the
anxiety, all of the feelings of lesser than, all of those other things.

763
00:58:37,553 --> 00:58:44,557
If you example that in the safe spaces that you're creating, then people feel free to be
able to be themselves.

764
00:58:44,557 --> 00:58:48,119
And I think that ultimately is what I've learned.

765
00:58:48,119 --> 00:58:50,682
Like, so I could give out a million different little

766
00:58:50,682 --> 00:59:02,426
little things that, know, I can do this, can, can, you know, I've learned some psychic
abilities through this space or that space, but that only really matters if you're able to

767
00:59:02,426 --> 00:59:08,448
hear it, to listen and to be grounded and quiet and to get the rabble out of the brain.

768
00:59:08,448 --> 00:59:12,231
So I think grounding is my superpower, one of them.

769
00:59:12,231 --> 00:59:15,223
That's that's I can really feel that from our conversation.

770
00:59:15,384 --> 00:59:21,148
It's that awareness going back to that favorite word awareness intention and how can I
help?

771
00:59:21,148 --> 00:59:22,768
Here's a safe space.

772
00:59:22,849 --> 00:59:24,270
Here's my story.

773
00:59:24,270 --> 00:59:27,332
And let's really knuckle in and just listen.

774
00:59:27,332 --> 00:59:27,973
Yeah.

775
00:59:27,973 --> 00:59:28,683
Brilliant.

776
00:59:28,683 --> 00:59:32,111
Joshua, thank you ever so much for a really, really interesting conversation.

777
00:59:32,111 --> 00:59:36,714
We will do this again because we touched on so many things and there's so many more we'll
talk about another time.

778
00:59:36,714 --> 00:59:37,886
Absolutely, absolutely.

779
00:59:37,886 --> 00:59:39,680
Thank you so much for inviting me on.

780
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,894
It's been an absolute pleasure to talk with you.