WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.840 Welcome to the DC Beer Show. I'm Mike Stein. I'm here with 2 00:00:09.840 --> 00:00:13.245 Jordan Harvey. Jordan, what are you drinking? 3 00:00:13.805 --> 00:00:17.164 You know, I'm still trying to keep the the, our listeners on their toes. 4 00:00:17.645 --> 00:00:21.244 So I'm I'm doubling back down with the halfway crooks, man. I'm still sipping 5 00:00:21.244 --> 00:00:24.925 some, top fermenting lager. It's a crispy 6 00:00:24.925 --> 00:00:28.420 boy season. It's been a nice nice official spring 7 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:32.020 weather, seventies as high as the eighties, on, 8 00:00:32.340 --> 00:00:35.880 Easter. So I hope hope all for all those that celebrated had a good Easter. 9 00:00:36.500 --> 00:00:39.775 And if Easter is not your thing, I hope you had a good 04/20. And 10 00:00:39.775 --> 00:00:43.135 if that's not your thing, I hope you have a great Earth Day because that'll 11 00:00:43.135 --> 00:00:46.975 be what day it is when this episode drops. So, so serious to 12 00:00:46.975 --> 00:00:50.815 you. But, Mike Stein, what's in your sign tonight, sir? You've got so many 13 00:00:50.815 --> 00:00:54.180 bases covered, Jordan. I love to see it. I'm enjoying DC 14 00:00:54.720 --> 00:00:58.240 golden funk, a golden sour ale, very much 15 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:01.840 outside of the, typical realm we expect from 16 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:05.280 Brau. It's not hoppy. It's not malty. It's not hard 17 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.980 seltzer. It's a wonderfully yeast forward, sour, funky 18 00:01:09.575 --> 00:01:11.995 treat. I am loving it. 19 00:01:13.255 --> 00:01:17.015 So what we have this evening are special guests from 20 00:01:17.015 --> 00:01:20.455 DC Brau. I figured I would follow through with a DC Brau 21 00:01:20.455 --> 00:01:23.640 beer. But it's April. 22 00:01:24.020 --> 00:01:27.159 It's hot, but yet the mosquitoes 23 00:01:27.539 --> 00:01:31.380 aren't completely tearing me to shred. So if you can get 24 00:01:31.380 --> 00:01:35.145 outside, enjoy the one, maybe more days this 25 00:01:35.145 --> 00:01:38.765 year where it's warm enough to be outside and not be torn apart, 26 00:01:39.465 --> 00:01:43.305 by mosquitoes. Speaking of April, we 27 00:01:43.305 --> 00:01:46.905 have some fun things lined up. Jordan, what 28 00:01:46.905 --> 00:01:50.380 are you looking forward to as we get into April, 29 00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:54.140 move into May, look forward right now? 30 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:57.960 Let's see if I can really, cover so many bases. Well, we had a 31 00:01:57.960 --> 00:02:01.400 couple Star Wars days coming up. I'm saying that in the wake of, 32 00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:05.494 yeah, you know, Star Wars weekend this past weekend. You know, 33 00:02:05.494 --> 00:02:09.014 Cinco de Mayo, so some Mexican lagers, I'm sure they would those would be available 34 00:02:09.014 --> 00:02:12.855 in copious amounts. So looking forward to that. Trivia will be in 35 00:02:12.855 --> 00:02:16.614 abundance. Again, patio weather will be, patio beer drinking 36 00:02:16.614 --> 00:02:19.355 weather will be upon us, despite the mosquitoes. 37 00:02:20.270 --> 00:02:23.870 And, yeah, man. Just looking to really, you know, celebrate, May 38 00:02:23.870 --> 00:02:27.390 and AAPI month and and all the other things that that are coming down the 39 00:02:27.390 --> 00:02:31.070 pipe, you know, including Mother's Day and everything else. But, Maryland Craft 40 00:02:31.070 --> 00:02:34.745 Beer Festival is really the big rock, the big feather in my cap 41 00:02:34.745 --> 00:02:38.265 for, for May. So I'm looking forward to tripping up to 42 00:02:38.265 --> 00:02:42.105 Frederick for that and, and drinking as local as I can. You know, I'm sure 43 00:02:42.105 --> 00:02:45.465 it won't be limited to just Maryland based breweries, but it will be a lot 44 00:02:45.465 --> 00:02:48.950 of Maryland based breweries in attendance. So if you're free 45 00:02:48.950 --> 00:02:52.629 on, the May 10, the May, 46 00:02:52.870 --> 00:02:56.170 definitely would encourage you to go up. The Brewers Association of Maryland 47 00:02:56.549 --> 00:03:00.150 as will the other prolific breweries in Maryland will 48 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:03.765 be bringing out some of the, some mixed farms, 49 00:03:03.825 --> 00:03:07.265 some some stout, some sours, some some lagers, some 50 00:03:07.265 --> 00:03:11.025 IPAs, and all the good things that we want to, to have 51 00:03:11.025 --> 00:03:14.165 when the weather is nice and school is almost out. 52 00:03:14.720 --> 00:03:18.500 What about you, or what are you tracking, as as April comes to a conclusion, 53 00:03:19.200 --> 00:03:22.980 the next week and a half or so? Well, I'm looking forward to wonderful 54 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:27.120 cask beer. I love it at Bluejacket. I love it 55 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.935 at Churchkey. I love it at Shelter. And sure enough, 56 00:03:30.935 --> 00:03:34.615 the women's brew culture club has some events 57 00:03:34.615 --> 00:03:37.755 happening on Saturday at The Roost, specifically 58 00:03:38.135 --> 00:03:41.115 at Show of Hands with the manager, Ali. 59 00:03:41.895 --> 00:03:45.450 I know our good friend of the site, Amber, is doing the First 60 00:03:45.450 --> 00:03:48.970 Women's Brew Culture Club Baltimore branch on Sunday at 61 00:03:48.970 --> 00:03:52.110 Pickett Brewing, and, of course, Pickett Brewing is a woman owned brewery. 62 00:03:52.970 --> 00:03:56.730 So those are super exciting. I don't know that missus 63 00:03:56.730 --> 00:03:59.549 Stein will be attending them. I hope she will, but knowing, 64 00:04:00.645 --> 00:04:04.405 how much, activity is in the air, we 65 00:04:04.405 --> 00:04:08.165 probably will be up in New York City this week, so it's gonna be 66 00:04:08.165 --> 00:04:11.625 busy. So I've actually been tracking breweries, you know, in Brooklyn, 67 00:04:11.860 --> 00:04:15.400 Queens, Bronx, Staten Island, and Long Island 68 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:19.060 as if a tiny time in New York City would allow me to do them 69 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:22.419 all. Right? Like, if you're in DC for one day, you're not getting to 70 00:04:22.419 --> 00:04:25.755 Alexandria, Silver Spring, Richmond, Baltimore. 71 00:04:26.695 --> 00:04:29.915 But one can dream one could dream, can't they? Yeah. 72 00:04:30.935 --> 00:04:34.615 Yeah. Yeah. So to your point, may the fourth 73 00:04:34.615 --> 00:04:37.835 be with you. If you're a a Spaceballs fan, 74 00:04:38.320 --> 00:04:41.760 may the Schwartz be with you. And in 75 00:04:41.760 --> 00:04:45.440 addition to some Mexican style lagers, we hopefully 76 00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:49.140 will see some Schwartz beers going on as well. 77 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:53.104 So we love seeing the Mexican style lagers, had a 78 00:04:53.104 --> 00:04:56.945 Mundo Especial from Silver Spring, from, excuse 79 00:04:56.945 --> 00:05:00.245 me, Silver Branch over the weekend, also in Silver Spring. 80 00:05:00.625 --> 00:05:04.005 Very much looking forward to Schwartz beers and some dark lagers 81 00:05:04.544 --> 00:05:08.240 coming down the pike. Yeah. And and in addition to, like, just 82 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.920 the Schwartz beers and and everything else, I I've 83 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.120 been really appreciating the, 84 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.200 proliferation of, some of the lower ABV beers and some of 85 00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:22.264 the NA beers. They're still there, folks. It's still not dry January. 86 00:05:23.764 --> 00:05:27.125 But, you know, if you're if you're not if you're looking to to have a 87 00:05:27.125 --> 00:05:30.565 lot of sessional beers, a lot of the local breweries are are dropping them. I'm 88 00:05:30.565 --> 00:05:34.164 thinking of, some of the happy Pilsners that, Lost 89 00:05:34.164 --> 00:05:37.930 Generation has been dropping. Same for Third Hill. You know, I'll always say something for 90 00:05:37.930 --> 00:05:41.770 Third Hill again. That's one of my neighborhood watering holes. So, just 91 00:05:41.770 --> 00:05:44.650 really really looking forward to a a lot of the beers that that are coming 92 00:05:44.650 --> 00:05:48.490 out. And as well as, again, this isn't really beer related, 93 00:05:48.490 --> 00:05:52.305 but in the for the sake of refreshing beverages, the 94 00:05:52.305 --> 00:05:56.145 Kentucky Derby, the most exciting two minutes of sports, almost upon 95 00:05:56.145 --> 00:05:59.905 us. And, missus Harvey is looking forward 96 00:05:59.905 --> 00:06:03.745 to getting a mint julep. So just all the things that 97 00:06:03.745 --> 00:06:07.285 that are coming your way to to to make this, very exciting 98 00:06:07.880 --> 00:06:11.400 official spring. I don't think we'll get any any onion snows in between now 99 00:06:11.400 --> 00:06:15.240 and and then. So we're officially we're officially in there. But, yeah. You 100 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.080 mentioned, DC excuse me, Brau. And you also mentioned 101 00:06:19.164 --> 00:06:22.875 Bluejacket. And one of those folks can listen and learn about the other folks 102 00:06:23.035 --> 00:06:25.995 the other one people might actually have to go to the site to read about. 103 00:06:25.995 --> 00:06:29.775 So, definitely check out Stein's latest article, about Bluejacket. 104 00:06:29.995 --> 00:06:33.675 And, what can the folks look forward to listening to tonight with, DC 105 00:06:33.675 --> 00:06:37.310 Brown? Oh, tonight, we have lined up Alex Spencer, 106 00:06:37.370 --> 00:06:41.130 head brewer, and Brandon Skoll, CEO and cofounder of 107 00:06:41.130 --> 00:06:44.730 DC Brown. Let's give a listen. Thank 108 00:06:44.730 --> 00:06:48.330 you so much, Brandon Skoll and Alex Spencer. We 109 00:06:48.330 --> 00:06:51.930 so appreciate you both coming on the DC Beer Show 110 00:06:51.930 --> 00:06:55.685 tonight. Welcome back, I should say. Thank 111 00:06:55.685 --> 00:06:59.145 you for having us. Thank you. It's always a pleasure, Mike. Always a pleasure. 112 00:06:59.685 --> 00:07:03.465 Alright. So, Brandon, you are CEO and cofounder of DC. 113 00:07:03.844 --> 00:07:07.460 Alex, you are head brewer of DC. The 114 00:07:07.460 --> 00:07:10.520 brewery just turned 14, and we received 115 00:07:10.900 --> 00:07:14.500 a press release about Dueling Grounds, the Vienna 116 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:18.120 lager. The first question is a softball question. 117 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:21.560 Is Dueling Grounds Vienna lager big news? 118 00:07:22.185 --> 00:07:25.465 And if so, why? I think for us, it's big news. 119 00:07:25.944 --> 00:07:29.784 We don't often, you know, mess with the flagship lineup here 120 00:07:29.784 --> 00:07:33.485 at Brau. When we add a new core beer, it's it's a big deal. 121 00:07:34.104 --> 00:07:37.949 And it's been quite a while since we've done that. We felt it was time, 122 00:07:38.009 --> 00:07:41.770 and we put a lot of care and thought into what that new 123 00:07:41.770 --> 00:07:45.289 flagship would be. And it ended up being Dueling Grounds Vienna 124 00:07:45.289 --> 00:07:48.569 Lager. Alex, can you tell us a little bit about the beer? What should, 125 00:07:49.514 --> 00:07:53.354 listeners of the pod or fans of Better Beer locally expect with with 126 00:07:53.354 --> 00:07:56.794 Dueling Grounds Vienna Lager? Oh, it's gonna be a a 127 00:07:56.794 --> 00:08:00.555 profoundly malt forward beer. You 128 00:08:00.555 --> 00:08:04.155 know, the the the bulk of the characters, like, you know, toasted bread 129 00:08:04.155 --> 00:08:07.470 crust, dark bread, very, very bready 130 00:08:07.850 --> 00:08:10.990 with some, you know, caramelly toffee 131 00:08:11.210 --> 00:08:14.650 undertones, a little bit of sweetness, a little bit of Braun 132 00:08:14.650 --> 00:08:17.775 sugar, but the the predominant character is Brau crust. 133 00:08:18.175 --> 00:08:21.695 Wonderful. So stepping things up and playing off the 134 00:08:21.695 --> 00:08:25.455 fourteen years, the fourteenth anniversary, I'm wondering if you 135 00:08:25.455 --> 00:08:29.235 can tell us a little bit about some of the barriers 136 00:08:29.375 --> 00:08:32.275 and struggles you've successfully overcome. 137 00:08:33.059 --> 00:08:36.660 There's been some, I don't wanna say fights, but some 138 00:08:36.660 --> 00:08:40.500 struggle on the local legislative front. When you first opened, 139 00:08:40.500 --> 00:08:43.880 you had to overcome some some local legislation and 140 00:08:44.020 --> 00:08:47.625 bring DC Brau sort of into the 20 century. 141 00:08:48.165 --> 00:08:52.005 I'm wondering then what can you see in the 142 00:08:52.005 --> 00:08:55.545 future either, locally or federally 143 00:08:55.765 --> 00:08:59.525 coming down the pike that you might struggle with or some barriers 144 00:08:59.525 --> 00:09:03.000 that you feel could be coming down the pike that you see sort of 145 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.700 brewing as we move, you know, through the first quarter of 146 00:09:06.839 --> 00:09:10.279 of twenty twenty five and look at 2026? Yeah. Mike, 147 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:13.720 well, would you perhaps call those struggles, duels? Duels. 148 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:15.980 Perhaps historically? 149 00:09:17.365 --> 00:09:21.125 I'll I'll address the question, but just playfully before we get 150 00:09:21.125 --> 00:09:24.645 into it, I do wanna mention that the name for the Brau Dueling 151 00:09:24.645 --> 00:09:28.165 Grounds has quite the historic reference. And as a 152 00:09:28.165 --> 00:09:31.829 historian, you might appreciate that the Bladensburg Dueling Grounds 153 00:09:31.829 --> 00:09:34.089 are right across the street from us, actually, 154 00:09:35.269 --> 00:09:39.110 about, I think, less than a mile, maybe half a mile from here in Colmar 155 00:09:39.110 --> 00:09:42.470 Manor. And these Dueling Grounds were 156 00:09:42.470 --> 00:09:46.205 where, you know, politicians or 157 00:09:46.205 --> 00:09:50.045 just the the elite of Washington DC would go to settle their duels 158 00:09:50.045 --> 00:09:53.885 with pistols and whatnot, all the way from the late seventeen 159 00:09:53.885 --> 00:09:57.680 hundreds until right before the civil war. So, we had a little bit of 160 00:09:57.680 --> 00:10:01.360 a historic nod to the name of the beer. Anybody who 161 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.120 comes to visit the brewery, I highly suggest you walk 162 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.880 the extra few feet over to the Bladensburg Dueling Grounds. Check out 163 00:10:08.880 --> 00:10:12.555 the historical marker there and read all about it. It's a fun little piece of 164 00:10:12.555 --> 00:10:15.995 local history and something that we thought was worthy of, 165 00:10:16.315 --> 00:10:20.154 naming a beer after. But, in speaking of duels, yes, 166 00:10:20.154 --> 00:10:23.915 there was there was quite a bit, that we had to fight against when we 167 00:10:23.915 --> 00:10:27.670 opened. And maybe saying fighting against is is a bit of a 168 00:10:27.670 --> 00:10:31.270 strong term. I mean, what we found was that just 169 00:10:31.270 --> 00:10:34.790 nobody had had a brewery in the district in fifty years fifty plus 170 00:10:34.790 --> 00:10:38.445 years. And what that came down to was, though it was perfectly 171 00:10:38.445 --> 00:10:42.205 legal to have a brewery and there was a license on the books, a 172 00:10:42.205 --> 00:10:45.805 lot of the supporting legislation that had sort of happened in the 173 00:10:45.805 --> 00:10:49.565 country throughout the last half century to modernize the industry just 174 00:10:49.565 --> 00:10:53.060 hadn't happened in DC. For example, a lot of the 175 00:10:53.060 --> 00:10:56.820 tasting room structure that you have all over the rest of the country didn't 176 00:10:56.820 --> 00:11:00.420 exist in Washington, DC. An example of that is that we were able 177 00:11:00.420 --> 00:11:04.180 to package our beer here, brew our beer here. We were 178 00:11:04.180 --> 00:11:07.825 able to sell our beer to people who came to the brewery, but they weren't 179 00:11:07.825 --> 00:11:11.585 allowed to even taste the beer. And our 180 00:11:11.585 --> 00:11:15.425 first step there was, before we could even think about pouring a pint, was to 181 00:11:15.425 --> 00:11:18.630 introduce a bill to allow people to taste the product. 182 00:11:19.190 --> 00:11:22.710 Back in those early days, we had to sort of, you know, 183 00:11:22.710 --> 00:11:26.550 go little bit by little bit into the the modern legislation that 184 00:11:26.550 --> 00:11:30.250 exists now. And that first sort of compromise was to allow people 185 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:33.770 no more than 12 ounces of beer per day, 186 00:11:34.345 --> 00:11:37.405 to taste, which we decided to break up into, 187 00:11:38.345 --> 00:11:41.725 four little three ounce pour. So if you remember coming to the brewery, 188 00:11:42.665 --> 00:11:46.445 in the first few years that we were around, you were given four tickets, 189 00:11:46.670 --> 00:11:50.350 and each ticket was good for a teeny little pour. And so people 190 00:11:50.350 --> 00:11:53.390 would come, and they would do the tour, and they would take their taste, and 191 00:11:53.390 --> 00:11:57.230 then they would buy their beer to go. And slowly, as the 192 00:11:57.230 --> 00:12:00.910 laws modernized, that eventually turned into us being allowed to, 193 00:12:02.065 --> 00:12:05.425 sell pints here and people being able to hang out and have more of the 194 00:12:05.425 --> 00:12:08.865 modern taproom culture that we have now. One of my favorite 195 00:12:08.865 --> 00:12:12.705 stories from back then, we had just exhausted our 196 00:12:12.705 --> 00:12:16.245 budget really on that easing, permit legislation, 197 00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:21.519 And we didn't have any more to spend on changing laws because we 198 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:25.360 were opening a brewery, and that's what we needed to save our money for. And 199 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.800 there was a rule that we couldn't sell growlers. However, we were allowed to 200 00:12:28.800 --> 00:12:32.625 sell steeled glass bottles, and it did not, you know, give 201 00:12:32.625 --> 00:12:36.385 any variation on size or, whatnot. So we 202 00:12:36.385 --> 00:12:39.525 interpreted the law that we were able to sell growlers 203 00:12:39.905 --> 00:12:43.505 despite them being called growlers, and we wrote a very kind 204 00:12:43.505 --> 00:12:46.850 letter to to Brau, to the the alcohol 205 00:12:47.310 --> 00:12:50.589 legislation and regulation, committee here in town, 206 00:12:51.230 --> 00:12:55.070 agency. And we said, hey. We're just letting you know. We interpret this law to 207 00:12:55.070 --> 00:12:58.830 say that we actually can sell Growlers, and we're gonna start doing it on this 208 00:12:58.830 --> 00:13:02.355 date. If you disagree with us, let us know as soon as possible. 209 00:13:02.575 --> 00:13:06.334 And we actually got back a signed letter saying, actually, 210 00:13:06.334 --> 00:13:09.214 we fully agree with you, and it was signed by all of the board members. 211 00:13:09.214 --> 00:13:12.095 And that was a really fun, you know, 212 00:13:12.819 --> 00:13:16.660 cheap win for us, legislatively. But since then, you know, so much 213 00:13:16.660 --> 00:13:20.500 has changed. I think the biggest struggle that we've had to face has 214 00:13:20.500 --> 00:13:24.259 not been, you know, limited just to us, 215 00:13:24.259 --> 00:13:27.654 but the pandemic really rocked our industry, and it still 216 00:13:27.654 --> 00:13:31.334 continues to do so to this day. You know, I think 217 00:13:31.334 --> 00:13:35.095 that the the economic landscape has changed 218 00:13:35.095 --> 00:13:38.940 for a lot of breweries, and we're finally starting to see that really catch up 219 00:13:39.020 --> 00:13:42.860 to the industry as we're starting to have years where we've got more closings than 220 00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:44.720 openings, in the industry. 221 00:13:46.380 --> 00:13:49.980 And as we're dealing with that, you know, we've got tariffs sort of 222 00:13:49.980 --> 00:13:53.685 coming into play as well, which are no doubt going 223 00:13:53.685 --> 00:13:57.445 to sort of, be another struggle when we're already still sort of recovering 224 00:13:57.445 --> 00:14:01.205 from the pandemic. And, also, you know, our industry, I'll say, 225 00:14:01.205 --> 00:14:04.965 is very interlaced with hospitality in many ways, way 226 00:14:04.965 --> 00:14:08.770 beyond just having a a tasting room here. Here. All of the bars and restaurants 227 00:14:08.770 --> 00:14:12.610 in town that carry our product product, which is over 60% of our 228 00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:16.290 sales, they've been struggling as well. And we've been riding 229 00:14:16.290 --> 00:14:20.035 that roller coaster with them for the past five years. And in 230 00:14:20.035 --> 00:14:23.875 DC right now, you know, if you're local here, you may be aware, but, if 231 00:14:23.875 --> 00:14:27.255 you're not local, you might not know. The hospitality industry 232 00:14:27.555 --> 00:14:31.075 is in peril. In fact, this year, the restaurant association of 233 00:14:31.075 --> 00:14:34.770 Metropolitan Washington is predicting, over 40% 234 00:14:34.770 --> 00:14:38.530 of the restaurants in Washington DC will close. And that is just a 235 00:14:38.530 --> 00:14:42.050 huge loss culturally, to the 236 00:14:42.050 --> 00:14:45.350 restaurant industry of this town, but also 237 00:14:45.815 --> 00:14:49.035 to all of the businesses that are interlaced with them in success. 238 00:14:49.735 --> 00:14:53.495 But I think that, you know, the landscape might look very different a year from 239 00:14:53.495 --> 00:14:57.335 now, and and there's so many businesses that support and thrive on 240 00:14:57.335 --> 00:15:00.589 the hospitality industry. I think we're gonna see that ripple 241 00:15:00.889 --> 00:15:04.250 across many industries. So right now, that's where my attention is 242 00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:08.089 focused. I am, you know, paying a lot of attention to what's going 243 00:15:08.089 --> 00:15:11.769 on with the tariffs, and we're trying to adjust when, where, and how we 244 00:15:11.769 --> 00:15:14.509 can and pivot so that it has a minimal impact. 245 00:15:15.185 --> 00:15:18.625 However, where my primary focus is is what's going on with the 246 00:15:18.625 --> 00:15:22.385 hospitality industry. How can we bring awareness, to this 247 00:15:22.385 --> 00:15:25.985 issue, and how can we help boost it? Because the restaurants that will 248 00:15:25.985 --> 00:15:29.820 survive, that 50% that make it, it's gonna 249 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:32.460 be hard for them to be the mom and pops. It's gonna be hard for 250 00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:36.000 them to be those chef driven concepts that really 251 00:15:36.380 --> 00:15:40.140 care, a lot to have local products like ours on and to feature 252 00:15:40.140 --> 00:15:43.740 them. So, that's where I'm spending a lot of my attention right 253 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:47.265 now. But, you know, I think that time will tell, and, 254 00:15:47.265 --> 00:15:50.625 hopefully, the people locally will get out and support these 255 00:15:50.625 --> 00:15:54.305 restaurants and support this industry because it really needs it now more than 256 00:15:54.305 --> 00:15:58.029 ever. Thank you. That's well well said. I'll share 257 00:15:58.170 --> 00:16:01.949 a tidbit about the hospitality industry. We were at, the Salamander 258 00:16:02.730 --> 00:16:06.170 in Southwest DC, and sure enough, we did a 259 00:16:06.170 --> 00:16:09.949 staycation. And when we were in our room, they had DC Brau corruption. 260 00:16:10.329 --> 00:16:13.755 It, not only in in the fridge, but they had it on offer room 261 00:16:13.755 --> 00:16:17.215 service. So I got a cheese board because, you know, 262 00:16:17.515 --> 00:16:21.035 cheese is delicious. And I paired it with a corruption. It was delightful. It was 263 00:16:21.035 --> 00:16:24.715 under a month old, and I was thrilled to see, you know, a twenty 264 00:16:24.715 --> 00:16:28.190 eight day old corruption. So I wanted to ask you, Alex, 265 00:16:28.810 --> 00:16:32.649 certainly, you know, the the brewery's been around for fourteen years. You 266 00:16:32.649 --> 00:16:36.170 haven't been head brewer for fourteen years, but you've been head brewer for a little 267 00:16:36.170 --> 00:16:40.010 while now. When the brewery first launched, it was very, sort 268 00:16:40.010 --> 00:16:43.505 of pale ale IPA heavy. Of course, the public 269 00:16:43.505 --> 00:16:47.125 pale ale and corruption IPA, these are still big brands 270 00:16:47.425 --> 00:16:51.265 in DC today. But I'm wondering what you're seeing as you 271 00:16:51.265 --> 00:16:54.945 brew or ferment or sell our sort of, you know, 272 00:16:54.945 --> 00:16:58.690 five days a week. What do you see, coming down 273 00:16:58.690 --> 00:17:02.529 the pike? Are you of course, you know, there's the the hard seltzer 274 00:17:02.529 --> 00:17:06.369 line as well in addition to, you know, the the 275 00:17:06.369 --> 00:17:10.195 beers that sort of traditional beers that that DC Brown is brewing, the 276 00:17:10.195 --> 00:17:13.955 nonalcoholic beers. What do you see coming down the pike as 277 00:17:13.955 --> 00:17:17.734 you, make beer, ferment beer, and and package beer 278 00:17:17.955 --> 00:17:21.635 five days a week? Well, I mean, I came into BRAU kind of at 279 00:17:21.635 --> 00:17:25.339 the the tail end of the West 280 00:17:25.339 --> 00:17:29.179 Coast IPA, more bitter is better, how 281 00:17:29.179 --> 00:17:32.240 many IBUs is your IPA craze, 282 00:17:32.700 --> 00:17:36.299 and hazy's really starting to become popular outside of New 283 00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:39.565 England. And, you know, we saw that trend 284 00:17:40.745 --> 00:17:44.585 growing, my first couple years at the brewery. When 285 00:17:44.585 --> 00:17:48.125 I started, you know, the citizen was still part of the core lineup, 286 00:17:48.505 --> 00:17:52.340 and we ended up dropping that off and putting joint resolution of Hazy 287 00:17:52.340 --> 00:17:55.960 in its place. But I'm seeing Hazy's become 288 00:17:56.820 --> 00:18:00.660 less and less popular, especially outside of the breweries 289 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:04.145 that are really known for them. And I'm seeing a lot 290 00:18:04.145 --> 00:18:07.684 more desire for, you know, straightforward, 291 00:18:08.225 --> 00:18:12.065 you know, quote, unquote, beer flavored beer, really 292 00:18:12.065 --> 00:18:15.765 typified by the the resurgence of the popular area of lagers. 293 00:18:16.470 --> 00:18:20.230 And, you know, the the macro beer drinkers who've always 294 00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:23.990 only drank lager, but with, you know, 295 00:18:23.990 --> 00:18:27.670 craft beer drinkers who used to, you know, decry, you know, 296 00:18:27.670 --> 00:18:31.145 fizzy yellow beer, moving towards them as 297 00:18:31.145 --> 00:18:34.585 well. So things that we've really, you 298 00:18:34.585 --> 00:18:38.045 know, expanded in recent years are the number of lagers we're doing, 299 00:18:38.585 --> 00:18:42.345 the the styles of lagers we're doing, and Dueling Grounds seem to 300 00:18:42.345 --> 00:18:45.930 fit kinda right into that. You know? And I 301 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:49.390 think what we're seeing is a bit of a a backlash 302 00:18:49.770 --> 00:18:52.590 on the consumer side from all of these 303 00:18:53.290 --> 00:18:56.810 extremely flavored beers. You know, the the hop 304 00:18:56.810 --> 00:19:00.355 sludge milkshake IPAs and the, the the 305 00:19:00.355 --> 00:19:04.195 crazy pastry sounds and all that and back to something that, you 306 00:19:04.195 --> 00:19:07.955 know, is drinkable and subtle and nuanced and, you know, 307 00:19:07.955 --> 00:19:11.715 you don't get overwhelmed with just having a little taste of it. If I 308 00:19:11.715 --> 00:19:15.490 could jump in there to sort of, you know, just piggyback on the point that 309 00:19:15.490 --> 00:19:19.170 Alex just made, kind of the biggest growth 310 00:19:19.170 --> 00:19:22.290 brand that we have had the past two and a half years has been Old 311 00:19:22.290 --> 00:19:26.050 Time, and not by a little bit. Double digit, 312 00:19:26.050 --> 00:19:29.815 even triple digit growth one year, this lager has 313 00:19:29.815 --> 00:19:33.495 just really continued to chug along for us. And the 314 00:19:33.495 --> 00:19:36.715 idea there was that, you know, we were seeing a lot of the younger generation 315 00:19:37.255 --> 00:19:40.855 drinking Narragansett, going back to Yingling and Brau, and, of 316 00:19:40.855 --> 00:19:44.410 course, Natty Bo in Baltimore, and we thought we could do that 317 00:19:44.410 --> 00:19:48.090 here too. We can brew a beer like that, and we thought it would resonate 318 00:19:48.090 --> 00:19:51.850 with the consumer, be approachable to not only the the 319 00:19:51.850 --> 00:19:55.450 folks who've always drunk lager that Alex was talking about, but 320 00:19:55.450 --> 00:19:59.285 also the sector of craft beer enthusiasts who are rediscovering 321 00:19:59.825 --> 00:20:03.184 those easy drinking everyday lagers and bringing them back into the fold. 322 00:20:03.184 --> 00:20:06.945 And and that's definitely what we saw. And, also, just tip of the hat 323 00:20:06.945 --> 00:20:10.544 to Alex, if you've been to Anthem or nine thirty Club 324 00:20:10.544 --> 00:20:14.010 anytime soon, you probably had the I'm pills, 325 00:20:14.790 --> 00:20:18.170 which is a, a a check pills that Alex, 326 00:20:19.190 --> 00:20:22.410 wrote the recipe for for the brewery, and that's been one of the 327 00:20:23.110 --> 00:20:26.755 absolutely most well received beers of the past several years. So all of 328 00:20:26.755 --> 00:20:30.434 these sort of reinforce that, you know, all paths lead back 329 00:20:30.434 --> 00:20:34.195 to lager, which is a a phrase that I often heard back fourteen years 330 00:20:34.195 --> 00:20:37.955 ago when we were starting a brewery. And it seems like, indeed, our path 331 00:20:37.955 --> 00:20:41.760 has led back to lager. Well said. I wanted to ask you as 332 00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:45.120 when we had Dan Kopman on the show, that was 333 00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:48.640 episode one ninety five for our listeners out there. 334 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.340 Dan Kopman, of course, is professional lecturer at American University's 335 00:20:52.560 --> 00:20:56.195 Kogod School of Business, and he's a senior policy adviser to the 336 00:20:56.195 --> 00:20:59.875 Worldwide Brewing Alliance. He told us that early 337 00:20:59.875 --> 00:21:03.335 mover advantage often coincides with early adopters. 338 00:21:03.794 --> 00:21:07.154 So when I talk about early adopters, those are the consumers with an 339 00:21:07.154 --> 00:21:10.090 innovation cycle that are your first consumers. 340 00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:14.630 So with that, I wanted to ask you, do you still feel you're 341 00:21:14.630 --> 00:21:18.310 seeing benefits from beating early adopters, or has the 342 00:21:18.310 --> 00:21:21.830 competitive advantage has it eroded because the market has 343 00:21:21.830 --> 00:21:25.575 become so competitive? Well, that's a that's a 344 00:21:25.575 --> 00:21:28.875 really good question, Mike. You know, and it's one that, 345 00:21:29.735 --> 00:21:33.035 it's hard to give a clear answer to, but what I can tell you that, 346 00:21:33.415 --> 00:21:37.255 I do think that that early adapter advantage we had early on did a really 347 00:21:37.255 --> 00:21:40.600 good job beyond just getting the Brau placed of getting 348 00:21:41.140 --> 00:21:44.980 the brewery itself placed and formalized in DC. 349 00:21:44.980 --> 00:21:48.660 We often say we are DC's beer knowing that there's a lot of other 350 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:52.180 beer that comes from DC, but being out there first and having 351 00:21:52.180 --> 00:21:55.755 DC in our name really helped to sort of, you know, get us cemented in 352 00:21:55.755 --> 00:21:59.515 the market. And I I still think even though so many people have 353 00:21:59.515 --> 00:22:02.975 come and gone in the past fourteen years, that that reputation 354 00:22:03.195 --> 00:22:06.970 and what we did back then, that that foundation has 355 00:22:06.970 --> 00:22:10.750 stayed. However, you know, the the competitiveness 356 00:22:11.290 --> 00:22:14.590 that we're seeing out there, it's it's 357 00:22:15.050 --> 00:22:18.730 twofold because it's not just from there being a lot of breweries, but it's 358 00:22:18.730 --> 00:22:22.115 there being a drop in consumption as well. 359 00:22:22.815 --> 00:22:26.414 And just to sort of illustrate that point, you know, Washington DC was 360 00:22:26.414 --> 00:22:30.174 always a 6,000,000 case market. And if you've run into me anytime in the 361 00:22:30.174 --> 00:22:33.300 past two years, you've probably heard me talk about this. But 362 00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:37.300 6,000,000 cases total for all of the beer that was consumed 363 00:22:37.300 --> 00:22:40.680 in DC. And that means, you know, the macros, the micros, 364 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:44.360 everybody. And when the pandemic hit, 365 00:22:44.740 --> 00:22:48.215 that number went from 6,000,000 cases down to 4,000,000 366 00:22:48.215 --> 00:22:51.975 cases. And it never really came back. It just sort of 367 00:22:51.975 --> 00:22:55.815 flatlined. There was, like, a little pop of lights here and 368 00:22:55.815 --> 00:22:59.415 there, but, you know, what would be gained one month would then be 369 00:22:59.415 --> 00:23:03.100 lost the next. And the crystal ball was broken as far 370 00:23:03.100 --> 00:23:06.560 as, you know, how much it would come back and when. 371 00:23:06.780 --> 00:23:10.300 And to this day, really, what we've seen is is sort of flat. 372 00:23:10.300 --> 00:23:13.980 So, in addition to there being more brands out there, there 373 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:17.625 was just less beer being consumed in the district. And that's sort of, 374 00:23:17.625 --> 00:23:21.305 like, you know, something that's happening all over the country, but 375 00:23:21.305 --> 00:23:24.985 it's really exemplified in the numbers in DC. But one of the things that 376 00:23:24.985 --> 00:23:28.505 we've done in the past couple years to sort of we're about we're about two 377 00:23:28.505 --> 00:23:32.350 and a half percent of the market, which doesn't sound like enough or a lot, 378 00:23:32.350 --> 00:23:35.870 but it's it's enough that we really ride the trend of the whole 379 00:23:35.870 --> 00:23:39.470 market. We're out of that growth cycle of being a new 380 00:23:39.470 --> 00:23:43.070 brewery, and and we're pretty stabilized. So when the market goes up, we go up. 381 00:23:43.070 --> 00:23:46.715 When the market goes down, we go down. And seeing this 382 00:23:46.715 --> 00:23:50.475 flatness that was accumulating, we decided that we really needed 383 00:23:50.475 --> 00:23:53.855 to invest in creating a contract brewing program. 384 00:23:54.475 --> 00:23:58.250 And one of the things about the contract brewing program that I really 385 00:23:58.250 --> 00:24:02.090 like, is that it it, in my mind, helps 386 00:24:02.090 --> 00:24:05.690 alleviate some of the feelings of competition and helps to 387 00:24:05.690 --> 00:24:09.529 nurture some of the feelings of collaboration that we often had in those 388 00:24:09.529 --> 00:24:13.275 initial first years. You know, I would say, like, 389 00:24:13.335 --> 00:24:16.775 2011 through 2014, '20 390 00:24:16.775 --> 00:24:20.615 '15, everything really felt like the rising tide was lifting all ships, 391 00:24:20.615 --> 00:24:24.055 and it was all of us independent locals against the world. 392 00:24:24.055 --> 00:24:27.840 And, that's a feeling I really missed, you know, in the second part of 393 00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:31.360 the teens and especially when the pandemic happened. That 394 00:24:31.360 --> 00:24:35.200 feeling sort of fell farther away than ever. But getting into 395 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:39.040 contract brewing and brewing we brew for about a dozen breweries now. 396 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.875 We're invested in everybody's success, and they're invested in our 397 00:24:42.875 --> 00:24:46.554 success. And it brings back those feelings, and it it helps to 398 00:24:46.554 --> 00:24:49.534 sort of topple that wall of competition that can be isolating 399 00:24:50.075 --> 00:24:53.215 and make every brewery feel sort of siloed. So, 400 00:24:53.835 --> 00:24:57.215 that's just a little, you know, silver lining in there. But, 401 00:24:58.429 --> 00:25:02.170 you know, the problem is real that the market is shrinking, 402 00:25:02.870 --> 00:25:06.710 and the number the amount of competition is more than ever. Although, I think we're 403 00:25:06.710 --> 00:25:10.310 also starting to see the competition start to shrink. This 404 00:25:10.310 --> 00:25:14.145 past year, there's been several unfortunate closings, and our scene is 405 00:25:14.145 --> 00:25:17.925 still small enough that when, we do have a brewery closing, unfortunately, 406 00:25:17.985 --> 00:25:21.825 it's it's missed by everybody. Yet even as they talk about competition, we 407 00:25:21.825 --> 00:25:25.460 are all friends, and, we are all in this together. 408 00:25:25.840 --> 00:25:29.540 Yeah. That's an excellent point. I think, we now have numbers 409 00:25:29.600 --> 00:25:32.560 from the brewers association, saying that in 410 00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:35.140 2024, we saw a 4% 411 00:25:36.015 --> 00:25:39.475 overall decrease in beer sold, beer produced, 412 00:25:40.255 --> 00:25:43.695 manufactured. So, it does make sense 413 00:25:43.695 --> 00:25:46.335 that with DC taking a hit even before 414 00:25:46.335 --> 00:25:49.770 2024, we're gonna continue to see that play out. 415 00:25:50.330 --> 00:25:53.850 We've only got a minute left, but, Alex, I wanted to ask you, what are 416 00:25:53.850 --> 00:25:57.690 you excited about that we should expect? I'm having 417 00:25:57.690 --> 00:26:01.450 a golden funk right now, which is delightful. What have 418 00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:04.490 you produced? What have you sellered or packaged that's coming down the pike that we 419 00:26:04.490 --> 00:26:07.945 should look out for at at DC Pier? Well, I am 420 00:26:08.245 --> 00:26:12.085 really proud of the Dueling Grounds, so definitely, pick 421 00:26:12.085 --> 00:26:15.685 it up when you're able to get your hands on it. As far as 422 00:26:15.685 --> 00:26:19.260 anything super secret, super special, we pulled 423 00:26:19.260 --> 00:26:23.100 out a, next round of golden funk out of the barrels a couple 424 00:26:23.100 --> 00:26:26.940 of months ago. And we've got something super 425 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:30.700 secret and sour starting its, its aging process to come out in a couple 426 00:26:30.700 --> 00:26:34.475 of years. That's very exciting. We're looking forward to it, and 427 00:26:34.475 --> 00:26:38.315 I'll I'll commend you on on this golden funk. It's wonderful. It's 428 00:26:38.315 --> 00:26:41.914 delightful. Looking forward to Dueling Grounds. What's your 429 00:26:41.914 --> 00:26:44.815 preference? Do you like it out of a can? Do you like it on draft? 430 00:26:45.034 --> 00:26:48.590 What's your preference? Oh, you know, having 431 00:26:48.590 --> 00:26:52.430 access to bright tanks kinda spoils you towards draft, but it 432 00:26:52.430 --> 00:26:56.210 tastes great out of the can too. I'd also like to quick quick mention, 433 00:26:56.750 --> 00:27:00.510 for fans of, lagers, Keller pills 434 00:27:00.510 --> 00:27:03.914 is coming back, and also be on the lookout for Space 435 00:27:03.914 --> 00:27:07.274 Reaper, which will be returning this year. Oh. For the non 436 00:27:07.274 --> 00:27:11.034 lager. Yes. I am right. If you like mellow malt and light 437 00:27:11.034 --> 00:27:14.575 hops, check out Keller beer. If you like heavy handed, delicious, 438 00:27:14.634 --> 00:27:18.440 hoppy aromatic, sweet smelling hops, check out 439 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.220 Space Reaper. Brandon, Alex, thank you so much for joining us. 440 00:27:22.360 --> 00:27:26.200 Yep. Thanks for having us. Thanks, guys. Always a fun time. Once again, thank 441 00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.899 you to DC Brau for joining us. We are very excited 442 00:27:30.565 --> 00:27:33.925 to sample some of the, sour tart 443 00:27:33.925 --> 00:27:37.525 funkier barrel aged beer that's coming down the pike that Alex 444 00:27:37.525 --> 00:27:41.285 mentioned. Jordan, speaking of barrel aged beers, are there 445 00:27:41.285 --> 00:27:44.720 any, unique one off barrel aged beers that 446 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.480 you are keeping an eye on? Not in the 447 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.159 immediate future. I know, so Chocolate City Porter that that that's 448 00:27:52.159 --> 00:27:56.000 going in in a barrel or two. So folks have something to look forward 449 00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.795 to come the fall, if not next winter, you know, during Black 450 00:27:59.795 --> 00:28:03.635 History Month. But, nothing as immediate. You know, I I always I keep 451 00:28:03.635 --> 00:28:07.155 a couple Monday night bottles, on me, so I got a couple Monday night, 452 00:28:08.035 --> 00:28:11.370 barrel aged beers to dive into. I actually have a couple, 453 00:28:11.850 --> 00:28:15.690 burial bottles that, one of my dear friends, Adrian, he 454 00:28:15.690 --> 00:28:19.450 got he picked up from Downtown Crown up in Gaithersburg. So so it really 455 00:28:19.450 --> 00:28:22.430 is those, but I don't know if anything too local that's 456 00:28:22.934 --> 00:28:25.975 really top of mind. But, you know, one thing and I I think we'd be 457 00:28:25.975 --> 00:28:29.575 remiss to not plug is, our next beer share will be 458 00:28:29.575 --> 00:28:33.095 at DC. So, you know, folks that are really 459 00:28:33.095 --> 00:28:36.700 excited for, what they've just heard, they can really look forward to 460 00:28:36.700 --> 00:28:40.300 coming out on Friday, May 16, at 461 00:28:40.300 --> 00:28:43.820 DC Brau for our May DC beer beer 462 00:28:43.820 --> 00:28:47.340 share. So a lot of a lot of Brau happenings in the next three to 463 00:28:47.340 --> 00:28:49.785 four weeks. And we'd love to have you guys come out and support. And if 464 00:28:49.785 --> 00:28:53.465 you wanna learn more, obviously, you can, follow us on Instagram and all social 465 00:28:53.465 --> 00:28:57.304 media. But also please please please consider becoming a Patreon 466 00:28:57.304 --> 00:29:01.050 subscriber because, again, those funds allow us to do the things that, 467 00:29:01.290 --> 00:29:03.850 you all enjoy and allows us to do the things that we need to do 468 00:29:03.850 --> 00:29:07.530 to cover the craft beer industry. So, it's truly a group effort, and, 469 00:29:07.850 --> 00:29:11.210 we need your support to support those that we all love. So cheers to you 470 00:29:11.210 --> 00:29:14.750 guys. Thanks for the continued support. And, 471 00:29:15.575 --> 00:29:18.775 Mike Sine, you wanna leave the folks with anything else? Anything else? Yeah. I'll just 472 00:29:18.775 --> 00:29:21.835 say, as we mentioned, as we heard during our interview, 473 00:29:22.375 --> 00:29:25.827 Brandon had said that, you know, 60% of DC 474 00:29:26.215 --> 00:29:29.700 sales was in the hospitality business, and hospitality is 475 00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:33.320 still kinda kinda sort of licking their wounds from the pandemic. 476 00:29:34.580 --> 00:29:38.260 So if you are out and about, you know, 477 00:29:38.260 --> 00:29:41.940 continue to support your local. If you 478 00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:45.784 can't make it to, Pickett Brewing on Sunday 479 00:29:45.784 --> 00:29:49.625 in Baltimore, check out Port City Brewing 480 00:29:49.625 --> 00:29:53.465 Company. Right? If you're an Alexandria listener, go ahead and visit your folks in 481 00:29:53.465 --> 00:29:56.845 Alexandria. There's no shortage of breweries there. If you're a Baltimore listener, 482 00:29:57.409 --> 00:30:01.250 please check out your locals in Baltimore. Everybody is really 483 00:30:01.250 --> 00:30:04.770 interested in your business right now. So we would just 484 00:30:04.770 --> 00:30:08.289 encourage you to keep supporting your friends in the industry. We will 485 00:30:08.289 --> 00:30:11.985 continue to soldier on and keep on 486 00:30:11.985 --> 00:30:15.664 trucking here at DC beer. If you can, check out 487 00:30:15.664 --> 00:30:19.424 patreon.com/dcbeer and support us. We will keep 488 00:30:19.424 --> 00:30:22.865 supporting you in the local scene, but, please support 489 00:30:22.865 --> 00:30:25.980 local. We know we do, and we hope you do too. 490 00:30:26.520 --> 00:30:29.799 Jordan, what do you got to take us out on? Be nice to someone. You 491 00:30:29.799 --> 00:30:33.420 know, tariffs are are not always the the best thing, and I know it's 492 00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.240 creating a lot of, fear and a bit of a chilling effect, just 493 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:40.795 across the the country and specifically our our our little DMV. But, 494 00:30:41.275 --> 00:30:44.875 you know, just support small businesses, you know, be nice to the 495 00:30:44.875 --> 00:30:48.475 person next to you. You never know what someone else is going through. And, cold 496 00:30:48.475 --> 00:30:51.934 beer doesn't fix everything, but it does make some things better. Drink responsibly, 497 00:30:52.235 --> 00:30:55.960 but but, don't stress too much about what we can't control. Don't 498 00:30:55.960 --> 00:30:59.560 let the macro control the micro. Right? So, so cheers to you guys. And, 499 00:30:59.960 --> 00:31:03.100 have a good April, and happy Earth Day.