After seven days of silence, the buzz
is back. Welcome to Dear Watchers in
Omniversal comic book podcast, where we do
a deep dive into the multiverse.
We are traveling with you through the stories, the worlds,
the movies that make up an omniverse of, uh, fictional
realities we all love.
And your watchers on this journey
are.
You couldn't I know you can't recognize me because I'm wearing
someone else's face, so let me take that off.
It's me, Rob. And
now, before we begin, their last.
Name, at least in something we saw today, their last name
is Slaughter. So you could be Rob Slaughter.
That sounds well, they have different names in
many different iterations.
Well, before we get to our trip down
south via New, uh, Jersey
Keto, what's new with us in our section of the
multiverse?
Well, this is my Halloween voice. I put on a
Halloween voice just for our
know. I know it's a great voice box
changer I got. In actuality, I'm sick. So
everyone enjoy this unique voice that I have happening
today. And I might be sick because of
our New York Comic Con extensive four
day, exhausting, though amazing experience.
Who knows, maybe that wore me down so much that I
am now just still recovering from it. But
you can pretend like you're there with us if you listen
to our last episode, which has our
New York Comic Con coverage with special guest Elliot.
So please go back and listen to that episode because it's
always the highlight of my year. In spite of this year, it
following with me being sick and so much.
On our social media channels as well. You
can see photos of us with creators and some
of the panels we went to. So much.
I put stuff on YouTube, too, which we barely use our
YouTube, although every episode is on there. But I
put some videos from it. And then
two quick notes that are really shout outs to some
of our incredible friends and family,
our spectales friends Jake and
Jesus who are together. Please follow
their social media at Fan Expo Dallas. It's been so great
to see their updates, but right before they left for Dallas,
they sent us a special care package with great
stickers of their mascot, JJ. The tater tot, including
one that's me. And it's so neat
to have this. It's like an amalgamini
crossover mashup of spectales Tater
Tot and Deer Watchers because it's me. And
I've got a new watu, pop. And of course, Elliot drew
it, so that is really fun. We posted pictures of
it, and now we have a whole stack of them to give away. Mhm,
whatever. The next thing we go to is, which I don't know what that'll
be.
I guess the, uh, Rob Tater Tot got lost
in the lunchroom. Hmm,
I don't know. Must have been
Taco Tuesday that day when Elliot was working
on them.
Maybe one of us is just more
visual. I don't know. There's more
things you can draw with me. But that's not true, actually,
because you've got the hair, you've got things.
So maybe next year, Jake and
Jesus. Next year, when you want to thank us, we
need a Rob Tot. And,
uh, the last shout out before we get into
today's Halloween horror themed
episode is to our local comic
store, Earthworld. I had my first book
signing there.
I know. Oh, my gosh.
Totally, uh, unexpected, but fun.
They've been great supporters of the Spidey
Signal with the web of technology book that I wrote
that I've talked about on here. It's a really cool little
replica of the Spidey Signal. And
it is in this little box.
And it comes with a book that I wrote all about Spider Man's technology and
gadgets. And it's at all bookstores. It's online, it's
really everywhere. And they were kind enough
to order so many of them and had them out.
And when we were in this weekend, they
asked us if I would sign some. They posted
a great picture of that. And there's a few signs
silver sharpie and everything. Uh, I know
it's going to go down in history because, uh, it's not
the last book signing, but it is the first.
And speaking of New York Comic Con, those spidey
books sold out at New York Comic Con. We went
there on Friday. There was a bunch of them.
And by Sunday afternoon, not even the end of the day,
Sunday, they were all gone.
And it has nothing to do with Spider Man. It's all
me.
It's all you. They want that book. Yeah.
Uh, well, thank you for those
updates. And if you are joining us for the first time, we
have three parts of our journey through the multiverse today
origins of the story, exploring multiversity, and
pondering possibilities. So thank you for joining
us on today's horrifying trip.
And remember, you can leave us a five star review
wherever you're listening or even someplace you're not listening
and find us on all social media at dear watchers.
And with that Dear Watchers, grab your
sharp implements and welcome to episode 118.
And let's check out what's
happening in the Omniverse with our travel to
today's alternate universe.
I guess I could have gotten a chainsaw. Soundsaw. There's a lot
of since today. There's a lot of sound. A, um,
machete sound.
No, that's true. I'll just make it.
Yeah. And today we head from my
voice.
I can try a chainsaw one.
Do I sound like a chainsaw?
Terrifying. Today we head from Crystal
Lake to the dark heart of Texas to find out the answer
to the question, what if Jason Voorhees from
Friday the 13th was adopted by
Leatherface and the Cannibals from The Texas
Chainsaw Massacre?
Isn't Crystal Lake the camp, or is it also the
town?
Well, it's the name of the lake and it's the
camp, but I don't know if it's the name of the town? I don't know if the
town is ever named.
Uh, all right. Well, this is a world
of an unknown world that appears in
tops comics. More on that later
in 1990, 519, 96. As far
as we know, these three issues are the only
appearance of this rather unique
crossover world. The world has no
designation, is not seen again. We're going to
call it earth Traumatized Child monster
Villains. And it will become clear why when
we talk about it.
And these are two of the most iconic
horror franchises of all time the Texas
Chainsaw Massacre and Friday
the 13th. And of course, it would take hours
for us to go through the full
backstory of these, uh, two franchises
way too long. But we're going to
encapsulate them on.
Film and comics and in comics because
they both have histories in both, needless.
To say, uh, really mirror each other as
well, too.
So I guess chronologically let's go.
Yes. So we're going to start with The Texas Chainsaw
Massacre on Film. The first
film came out in 1974. It was made for
only $140,000, but it grossed
over 30 million in the US. With half of that
coming from rentals. It was immediately
controversial and banned in several countries. And
in fact, Guido, did you know this? It was actually banned in the
UK. Until 1999.
Was it a video nasty?
Was it it was a video nasty.
Was it technically a video nasty?
And I think for one of the anniversaries, they finally
unbanned it and gave it an actual rating.
I mean, I'm sure people watching it, um, yes, of
course, you could find it's not like they were rating
people's homes copies of the film.
No. But yes, it was banned there. But it
was also pretty critically acclaimed. So the horror host
and critic Joe Bob Briggs, he has called it the greatest
horror film of all time. But it did
take, strangely, 14 years for the first sequel,
which was also directed by the director of the first film,
Toby Hooper. And that second film is a
canon film's, Fever Dream of
a Movie. But altogether, it has
spawned eight film sequels or prequels,
including movies starring Vigo Mortensen, Matthew
McConaughey, Renee Zellweger and Jessica
Beal.
Are you including in that eight, like reboots or
no, that's just oh, no.
That'S reboots and everything. Yeah. And that's
in part because it has an incredibly
convoluted timeline, because
they made the reboot of the platinum dunes
one in the 2000s, but then they also made a sequel
to that. But it's also a direct sequel to the
original movie. So it's very confusing.
And including the 2022 movie that was released on
Netflix, that's also billed as a sequel,
direct sequel to the first film. So it's very
confusing, very convoluted.
But it's also popped up in lots of other media
as well. There are two video games, including one
that just came out, lots of merchandise and
even a barbecue restaurant on the site of the
gas station from the first film.
Gross.
Whoever's eating there, you're gross. But that's
not all the other media that it has been
in, because of course, it has been in comics,
though not that much. I'm intrigued.
I'm always fascinated, as I know our, uh,
friend Mike from Tencent Takes is in licensed comics
because they always have such strange histories. And I'm going to guess
this is the same with this, because
Texas Chainsaw Massacre starts in comics in
1991. So pretty late, although sort of the moment of
the boom of comics. North Star Comics
publishes a series titled Just
Leatherface. So that makes me think there is something with the
rights there because will I not call it Texas Chainsaw
Massacre?
I think that was tying into the third film, which
was called Leatherface Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Three. I think there must have been some weirdness with people knew
Leatherface and not Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
But I wonder because right now we know that the rights to
Ghostface are distinct true to the rights from
Scream. And so there's all this Ghostface merch that just
calls him Ghostface and says nothing about Scream. So I do
wonder if it's something similar. So that
is other than the comic crossover. We
read that is the only comic outing for another
14 years when Avatar publishes in
2005, starts doing some Texas Chainsaw
Massacre little miniseries, one Shots. But
Avatar quickly loses the rights to Wildstorm in
2006. Wildstorm in 2007
publishes their first Chainsaw comics again, special
one Shots and miniseries. And the final
Chainsaw comics to date that we know
about are 2008, when Wild
Storm has a three issue miniseries, the Texas
Chainsaw Massacre Raising Cane. So
real gap in the last 15
years for Texas Chainsaw Massacre
comics.
Yeah. And of course, the comic we're going to discuss today comes in between
there, but is also not really a Texas Chainsaw Massacre
comic. There's lots and lots of weirdness in
there. And our other big
franchise is Friday the
13th. So let's talk a little bit of,
uh, its history on film. It
was inspired, of course, by the
movie Halloween. John Carpenter's Halloween,
and producer director Sean S. Cunningham was like, well,
they just made a movie based around a title of a
spooky holiday. There's never been a Friday the 13th
movie. So he literally put out ads in the paper saying
Friday the 13th is coming and had no idea what the
movie was going to be. I wonder the
movie around that I.
Really want to know. I guess we could just ask our
parents. But I'd want to ask someone like, I don't know
who was maybe slightly younger in the early
70s before this movie. I'm just curious how big a
thing was Friday the 13th before the movie
Friday the 13th came out? Obviously, it was a thing.
I know. But I'm just curious when a
friday the 13th happened? Were people like OOH
or especially when it happened in October as it did this year,
were people really into it or did the movie
help boost that? I'm curious.
Yeah, there was an unrelated Friday the 13th movie that was
going to come out at the same time that eventually changed its
title. So it must have been out there in the
Zeitgeist enough of a thing. Uh, yeah, exactly.
The 1980 original film had a budget of around
$500,000, but it grossed
over 60 million and really kicked on its
original box office. I'm not
100% sure. It might have been also through rentals
and everything. So maybe not just original.
Yeah, uh, it was a huge hit. And that's why
well, you just mentioned Friday the 13th as a holiday
and that's why then it was then the
craze of holidays. There's an April
Fool's Day and Valentine's Day all
had slasher movies and then of course the teens
in everything, prom night, all that kind of stuff.
It actually had eleven follow ups. That includes
Jason fighting a telekinetic psychic, him
on a boat slash in New York City in outer
space and battling Freddy Krueger.
And there are two video
games, uh,
and he's second probably only to Freddie in terms of
overall merchandise. There's so much merchandise out there.
There's a museum in New Jersey.
We've seen it closed. We've seen it closed.
Not there in person. There's an in name only
TV series from the there is
soon to be a new prequel series on
Peacock.
Maybe. Who knows?
Maybe right. We'll see.
But it's supposedly in development. And of
course other media that Friday 13th has crossed into is
comics and a lot more than Texas Chainsaw Massacre M, though
still not a ton. The first comic was a three
issue adaptation of Jason Goes to Hell by Andy
Mangles for Tops Comics in 1993. The
publisher we'll be talking about today. So right after
that a few years comes the series we're discussing.
And then there is a Bit of a Gap. Again, it's
2005 that the rights end up at
Avatar. So Avatar is a company
that was very interested in horror movie tie ins
in the 2000s. There were again
miniseries and one shot specials.
Most of them actually, in this case were written by Brian
Polito, creator of Lady Death and Evil Ernie.
But similar to Chainsaw in 2006, Wild
Storm acquires the rights. They do start their own series
written by Jimmy Palmiati. They continue with a few
other miniseries. They have Jason crossover with Freddie
and Ash from Evil Dead, something we will definitely
be covering. And just got a few more issues of at New York
Comic Con and the final Friday the 13th
comic. Again, a Bit of a gap is a
2009 six issue sequel to Friday
versus Jason versus Ash called The Nightmare Warriors. So we are still
coming on 15 years without Friday the 13th
comics either yeah.
And it's funny that Tops then Avatar
and then Wildstorm, it's the same thing. And in
fact, Wildstorm acquired the
Texas Chainsaw and the Friday the 13th
licenses in the same year. And
Avatar, I think, acquired them in the same year from Top. So there
was a lot going on around. That.
Quite a package deal. But speaking on this
package deal, you have a deep
background to both. One of these is your favorite.
So tell our listeners your background with these and
which one is your favorite.
Sure. So, Texas Chainsaw Massacre
I probably saw for the first time in high school,
and with my friend Anders, we would try to watch all these
classic horror movies. So I saw that then. It was
probably years before I saw any of the
sequels. And there's still some from the
2000s that I've never seen. I
really like it a lot. I think it's an excellent film, which
we'll get into exactly.
But my much deeper background is
with Friday the 13th. I couldn't tell you the first time
or which movie I even saw first, but it was probably
on something like Cinemax or Showtime.
I was just flipping around and suddenly you saw Jason. And
it was so scary. I remember having to click
away because I was, uh, scared or ready with the
remote in my hand, which is funny because when you watch the movies
today, they're not really scary at all. No, but that
was like the first time I saw that. Then again, with my friend Anders,
we would watch all the first run films. So I
watched the original Friday the 13th then,
but really it's become my favorite go
to series. I think Halloween, especially the first
movie, is much better than any Friday the 13th movie.
Same thing with Texas Chainsaw Massacre. But the Friday
the 13th series to me is my
comfort. Horror watching.
And I started playing the video game.
You didn't keep playing because you're not a big video game player.
But yeah, you were just about to point to all the signed things
you have hanging around you.
Signed, record, met, lots of the cast
members, the composer, I have him sign something.
And then my big thing is I have all but I think one of the
Jason's signatures on a Camp Crystal
Lake sign.
Yeah, well, and a special connection, too, since
Camp Crystal Lake is filmed in New Jersey and maybe takes place
there. And obviously oh, of course, we both are from New Jersey,
so I'm sure that helped. Knowing you when you were young, I'm sure
you felt like, oh, it's just down the road.
Growing up, I had lots of kids. I never really went to
summer camp, but I have lots of kids that went to Camp Nobi Bosco in
New Jersey where they shot the first movie. And then a few years ago,
you and I went to Blairstown in New Jersey
where they shot lots of the town
footage and where the museum, which was closed at the
time is.
And Spirit Halloween sponsored the diner this
year. In this massive, massive
experience that you could do, it's become
quite a huge destination.
Yeah, I love the town, has embraced it. But what about
you, Guido? What's your backgrounds with these two
franchises?
Well, Friday the 13th,
I think everyone's more familiar with
Jason. I feel like, for whatever reason,
has become more of a pop culture icon. So
mhm, growing up, one of my older
siblings liked horror
movies a little, but she was more into Nightmare on Elm
Street. And I remember seeing those. I don't know if I saw Friday
the 13th then starting in college
and slightly after, it'd be on TV or
sometimes a screening at a theater and I would go and see
it. I don't love it. I don't dislike
it. It's fine. Uh, it's
whatever. And so I probably have only
seen the first three or
four in Adult Memory and
especially two with you because we watched the great
documentary about just how queer it is and the
history of it.
That's Nightmare on Elm Street.
On Elm Street.
You're getting your 80s franchises mixed up.
They're very similar in tone. Um,
so then I don't even know how many Friday the
13th I've seen because I was thinking about
Freddie. So anyway, very
minimal. But I get it. I understand it. Texas
Chainsaw Massacre. I resisted
my whole life. I
didn't think I'd like, I never saw it
until last night for this episode
when you made me watch one and two.
And I hate them.
I know Leatherface,
but I didn't even know I feel like it was only a few years
ago that I even knew that some people think
leatherface is like a drag queen or possibly trans
like that. There's gender stuff. I really knew
nothing. Because, again, I think that's,
uh, less in the pop culture zeitgeist than Jason
is. So just saw it for the first time
and have never read any of their comics ever
before. And you, on the other hand, have read
some of all of their comics. We don't have every issue
because some of them are actually quite costly.
But, uh, you have read at least a few of every
comic iteration of these mhm two.
Well, let's oil up the old
chainsaw and carve our way
into origins of the story.
Right now on this very show, you're going to
get the answer to all your questions.
Our amazing story begins a few
years ago.
So first up is the film
of, uh, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
Chainsaw. Two words in the original title,
strangely.
I wonder if it is two words. I don't know.
I don't know. The Netflix one, they made it one. I think
usually it's one word, but the original, it's two words.
That is from October 1974 from
Vortex Inc. And Brianston distribution
company.
It's. Directed and produced by Toby Hooper written by Toby
Hooper and Kim Henkel starring Marilyn Burns and Gunnar
Hansen. Real quick summary. It's rural Texas.
The Sawyer family, I guess, in this,
kill unsuspecting folks to turn them into
barbecue. There's the
leader, the cook, the younger brother,
the hitchhiker, the near dead, or
well, dead, who knows? Grandpa. And then of
course, the most famous member of the clan leatherface,
maybe someone calls him Bubba. Uh, seemingly
deformed, mostly mute, who uses a
chainsaw and wears masks from the skin of his
victims and does uh, sometimes
do that in drag.
So you had never seen these movies
and you gave us a preview already.
Of what of my opinion you think.
But what do you think of having never
seen this classic horror movie?
Well, what I will say about the first one so I don't
hate the first one, I should say I
don't like it. It's not a movie for me.
It is what I was afraid it was, which is
ultimately an exploitation movie. It is
fascinating. And you have pointed out to me over the
years we watched lots of
documentaries about horror movies and this is always in them.
So for example, I feel like the more famous
moment is when the person is getting
hung on the meat hooks. You don't see it. And
so it is kind of cool.
Uh, he does create
horror and really quite visceral horror
without the gore that would become a part of
horror movies. And so it was kind of cool to
see those sort of filmmaking techniques.
But why I think it's ultimately an exploitation movie
is first of all, there's barely any plot. The movie
has maybe a total of like four scenes.
They just all play out for like 25 minutes
each. And
it's also then that
for me, there was no character I'm interested in,
no character I'm attached to, no protagonist, no
antagonist. There's really nothing going on in it. And so
it's just kind of torture porn. It's just
uh maybe it's soft core porn in this case, since you're not seeing
a lot of the gore.
What I will say though, last point I'll make,
having just seen it for the first time is the amount of
tropes in horror that come out of
this movie was pretty remarkable to me. To
see so many things, from the teenagers in
the van, to
some of the way it's shot, to
the way jump scares and devices
work and just
so much going on in it, that I was like,
wow, this is really the prototypical
horror movie. M. So I see why it's
important. But it was not a movie for me.
Yeah, uh, on that point, when they
get to the cemetery earlier in the movie, when the kids
get there and there's like a drunk guy rolling around
and talking about stuff that's so much like the Harbinger
character that uh, the crazy Ralph character is
like someone ranting yeah. Ranting about something.
And so much of the iconography here reminded me
a lot of X, the Thai West movie that came
out last, for sure. Lot taken
from that. And yeah, what's interesting is you call it's
100% an exploitation movie, but one thing it
doesn't exploit is the sex
angle.
No. And I was glad. And when we
get well, we can mention too in a moment, it's very
different, but I was very glad in this movie. I
don't know if it was an
attempt I mean, was this rated
NC 17? Well, that didn't exist. But was this
unrated when it was released?
I'm not 100% sure if it was.
R or unrated, but there's
not even breasts in this.
No. Which is surprising.
A key trope of every horror movie. And
yet there's just not there's never
any hint that there's anything rapey
happening in this. And I really
appreciate that.
No, they want to eat her, but they don't want to do
anything.
They want to eat everyone.
Want uh to eat everyone. They're
mutual. People who want to eat everybody.
Yes.
Even like the violence is not more visceral toward
the women, which is happens a lot in a lot
of misogynistic horror. But in this case, even though there
is like hanging her on meat hooks, there's
the rather more probably the goriest part
is when he smashes in the first man's head.
Yeah.
That's the only time you really see a lot of blood in this.
Uh, there's one more male victim than female
victim, which is fairly ah, unusual
as well. And yet, to your point, even though we
think of it as The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, when one character,
a very particularly annoying character in a
wheelchair, when he gets
chainsawed, you don't actually see anything,
you only see leatherface. I was surprised
you see the body of the person being chainsawed, but you don't
see where it's penetrating. And um, some of
that might have been also for budgetary reasons.
I was thinking that they avoided a lot of the
effects costs or the I mean, they would have
been new effects even. Which is again,
cool to think of. Obviously a few other horror movies
had happened and Night of Living Dead had happened, but I
imagine a lot of the stuff they were doing had never been
seen. You probably hadn't seen bodies being split in half.
No.
And before we talk about too briefly,
the things that I wanted to point out too, was
I've seen a few people mention this in more
recent times, but it really actually is a
folk horror movie in so many ways. And
we think of folk horror like The Wicker Man being in
London or being in England and rural
England and things like that. But here there's so many of those
folk horror tropes where
they're building these weird artifacts in
the cemetery and as soon as they get to the house, there's weird
stuff hanging around The Hitchhiker
smears like a symbol onto the
van. Yeah, old versus new, which
is a huge part of the conversation about the way they used to
kill cattle versus the new technology way.
And the main character are quote unquote,
heroes. They're not really heroes, but the people we're following,
we know they come from money because their family sold the
cattle there. This was this house that they own that
has kind of been left to seed. So there's this
capitalism elements that are happening there too.
Yeah, I agree. It's definitely folk
horror, without a doubt. Which is cool.
I think one of the things that affected
my enjoyment of it, not that I'll ever
enjoy it more, I don't think, but is
having heard so much about how this movie was
really about America in
the don't know that
it is, I can see why people
are taking that in. And there's a little bit
about gas in there, perhaps. And like you're saying,
modernism and this shift and obviously
there's stuff about rural culture here,
but I didn't feel like it had a lot to
say about any of those things. If anything, I'd
worry that it created the
and I know that Joe Bob, we saw him give a whole three
hour lecture on this, but it feels like it might have
created the Hillbilly Horror trope a
bit because it is like this rural, lower
class farm falling apart. So
I obviously could only think
of the movie I love, which is Wrong Turn.
And this is like the Wrong Turn is basically a remake
of this movie. But, um, same deal.
Like you get these people who because
you can't tell if they're supposed to
be and in the one brother
who you meet earliest in the movie, who's later called The
Hitchhiker, you can't tell if he's supposed to be
developmentally disabled or what's going on with
him. And I think if he
is, it's an offensive portrayal, of course.
But the fact that I can't even tell says to me, like, I don't
know what's going on here. So I think, uh, it's creating
a lot of these tropes, which I had to keep reminding myself, okay,
this is the originator of these things. They're doing something
different, they're trying something. Uh,
so they're not necessarily
setting out to
keep telling the same story of like, poor
people are both incestuous
and going to kill you.
Yeah, I think it's in there a little bit. But I agree with
you that I don't think it's really trying to say a lot about
America. And Toby Hooper is often called
it a comedy or a black comedy. I
always take question with that. There's a couple of funny lines it.
Is not fun at. No, no, that is one thing. And
it's funny because you are always someone who
wants something to feel fun. Which doesn't have to
mean it feels light and doesn't have to mean it has jokes.
But you struggle with really
serious tone things and things that don't
have fun. This has no yeah, no,
there's maybe.
One or two lines. And I think a big thing is I
think the cinematography is great, very spooky. And then
the biggest thing that really caught me this time, because I was sitting right next
to the speaker, is this score, which Toby Hoper co
composed. It's all dissonant and it was not done with
synthesizers because I don't think they had them. I think a lot of it was
tape effects on toy instruments
and using things slowed down. So the whole thing is
very distorted and very
creepy, I think, with and.
That creates a lot of suspense.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. So much M, which is one of.
The other things where I kept reminding myself, like, wow, this is
I mean, psycho used score to create suspense,
but this sound design, I think, creates like
the terror that we get in all slasher
movies after this.
Totally. Well, and speaking of after this so we won't
touch on it too we won't talk about it for too long.
Let's not talk about it.
14 years later, they made a sequel
with Toby Hooper again, and our friend
Randolatowitz, we were talking to him at
New York Comic Con and he described the one in two
of Texas Chainsaw Massacre as Gremlins and Gremlins Two,
which I think is great because Gremlins is a
fairly, mostly a fairly serious
movie. And then Gremlins two is just
crazy. And I think Texas Chainsaw
Massacre Two is just crazy. It just has some
of the fundamental DNA of the first one, but is a
very different movie.
It doesn't sound like you like it.
I'll say if not for the sex
parts of it, I actually probably
would have enjoyed it because it is wacky and
especially like when you get toward the end, the set
design is like.
Uh, some it's very Tim Burden, Mad.
Max, Fury Road, Midman Max,
totally combined with something
cartoonish and some children's show. It's
so weird and over the top.
They're living in like a Batman 66
hideout because it's uh, like an abandoned mutem
park there.
Yeah. And it's never explained,
which is fine. But I think this one at this
point, you get more of the gore
and violence that makes sense at the.
Time, Zavini stepped in and did all that
here.
But you definitely get more
stuff with women that I do not like. With the
longest scene being, uh, the
way leatherface threatens the
main character and the
position of the chainsaw. And it's
just gross. It's just
gross. It's a threatening
rape scene with a chainsaw, essentially
for the entire duration. And I really did not enjoy
watching it. And then even later, the
first way I think it's the brother is killed.
He's stabbed through his anus.
So again, there's penetration on the
mind. There's a lot of sexual undertones
in this movie.
He actually says it's a lot of horror, but saved me a
trip, got my hemorrhoids, saved me a trip to the
hospital.
Is that really a line?
The cook says that. Yeah, but there's interestingly
still no nudity in it, which is and in
fact, there's really only a few victims
in the whole movie. The first victims are these
assholes who are driving some convertible and we kind of want them
to get killed.
It is sort of funny to watch that play out because it's almost
like part of a John Hughes movie found
its way into Texas Chainsaw or something.
And I think my favorite part of this movie is Bill
Mosley, who is a character not from the first movie. He's
called Chop Top. And he is just cuckoo
bananas throughout the whole movie, giving,
uh, playing it at an eleven since the very first time
we see him in a sunny Bono wig. And I just think
he's so enjoyable in this movie.
But then he has like, uh,
uh, i, uh, don't know, who cares? But he's like a
cyborg. I don't understand. It really
is so weird.
It was a canon movie. And there was also, I think,
um, a lot of cocaine being done that's
supposedly around. Well,
let's get to, um, our next
franchise, which is Friday
the 13th. The first film came
out in May 1980 from Georgetown
Productions and Paramount Pictures.
And it's directed and produced by Sean S. Cunningham, written by
Victor Miller, starring Adrian King and Betsy Palmer.
So in this first installment,
we flashback to the 1950s. We see
a deformed boy named Jason accidentally
drown in Crystal Lake, and his mother ends up coming
back to take revenge after she is
killed. She is the killer of the first movie. I feel like that's a very
common horror trivia question that people get asked.
Everyone knows.
Is it in Scream or in Scary Movie?
No, it's in Drew Barrymore.
She gets it wrong.
Okay?
That's why, um, so he is
eventually killed in part four, he returns as a zombie in
part six. In part five, it turns out it's an imposter.
So they try to keep a prime cannon, and
he is often defeated by being driven back into
the lake, but is unexplained, at
least through the majority of the films, indestructible.
Um, and, uh,
invulnerable or immortal or
something.
They keep a few characters do cross over to
multiple films. So they did actually much more
than Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Tried to keep some kind of
prime canon in the way that Halloween and to a lesser
extent, Nightmare on Elm Street was doing. But Guido, I
mean, you're less familiar with this series than I am. So
what is your take, especially on the first Friday the
13th?
Well, I'd have to remember it, but I remember we
saw it for your birthday a few years ago.
Uh, it's
fine. It's fun. It's a typical slasher.
There's something I don't know what the difference in
Texas Chainsaw, ah, is
that stops it from being quote unquote fun.
Because it's not like this movie. I mean,
maybe there's more humor in the
teenagers in this movie than there are in the
teenagers in Texas Chainsaw. But
maybe it's also in the fact that
the killing feels so supernatural, even though that's
not an element of the first movie. I think
Gunnar Hansen, I can sort of believe he's smashing
those people's heads in in Texas Chainsaw Massacre and
in you're, everything is, um, a little more
cartoonish. The violence is all a little more cartoonish.
And so I appreciate that. And
that's all I can really say about it because I was thinking of
Nightmare on Elm Street.
Well, I love the first movie. My favorite of
the Friday the 13th movies are four, six, and
one. And one feels very
different, of course, not only because we don't see Jason, but it's
always being then shot from the perspective of the
killer. So we'll just see like the gloved hand. It's got a very
jallo kind of element to it. Uh, that black kind
of Italian black Christmas. Exactly. That kind of
horror where it's a who done it in that
it's not really a whodunit like scream is because it
turns out that it's a character we've never met before with the
killer, but it has that kind of element. And then the
music. Harry ram Ferdini's score.
Very classic, very Bernard Herman
psycho, full on strings.
Very different than the a tonal kind
of music that Toby Hooper was doing. And the
movie feels like a proper movie. Unlike, um,
Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which really does feel like something
that a bunch of kids took.
Student film.
A student film that was well shot but had
no money. This does feel like a proper movie with
locations and actual actors.
Why do you love this series?
Because I think the
deaths are super fun. And because you don't have
to get like the Halloween movies get very
convoluted, especially around four, five and six.
This one, they just always stay that surface
level. And the stuff with the kids, it's always fun.
It always reflecting the time a little bit. Like in this first
movie, they're literally sitting around strumming the
acoustic guitar, smoking a joint. Then later
on the boat, in part, uh, Jason
Takes Manhattan, they're playing rock and roll,
so you always have those fun sequences. But I think the deaths
are just really fun and
enjoyable. It's the kind of franchise I feel like you could
put on at 11:00 at night after having a couple of
beers, or you could put it on during the
day and enjoy it. Like you would not want to
watch Texas Chainsaw Massacre at one in the
afternoon, I don't think. But I could totally do Friday the
13th at one in the afternoon.
Yeah, I totally agree with that assessment, for sure.
I think in that way, while they're very different
movies, it has what some
of the Scream movies have for me, too,
where they just have
that. Those are much better made movies than Friday the 13th.
But that same thing of just there's enough
humor. As you kind of mentioned before, along with the
deaths, it just makes it a pretty solid
film.
Yeah. And both definitely slashers. Whether
it's with chainsaw, uh, or with a machete, they are both
exactly slashers.
Well, let's extinguish the fire, grab
a doobie, go down to the lake for a
midnight skinny dip. Into
exploring multiversity.
I am your guide through these vast new
realities. Follow
me and ponder the
question,
what if?
And today we are asking the question, what if Jason Voorhees
from Friday the 13th was adopted by Leatherface and the
Cannibals from The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
And this is from Jason versus
Leatherface, which came out October
1995 to January 1996
on Tops Comics.
And there are issues one through
three.
And so all three are written by
Nancy Collins from a plot by Collins and
David Einhoff. Art is by Jeff Butler, inks by
Steve Montano. Colors and editor Renee
Winterstatter, who we just saw at New York Comic Con sitting with
Michael Golden. Renee was, of course, Mark Gruinwald's assistant.
Separations are by electric Crayon covers are
by Simon Bisley. So, creator of Lobo
and big. Uh, artist known for judge Dredd.
The letterer is uncredited, probably one of
those other people. And real quick, so
Nancy Collins is actually an American Horror
fiction writer. So she's written a series of
vampire novels from the 80s. So
prior to this so she was probably
hired as a known name at that
time. She's done a few comics this a Predator
comic and part of Swamp Thing.
So she was a
logical hire, I'd say, for a horror
crossover like this.
Mhm. And these comics are very
hard to find. And not online,
I don't think. So I'm going to give a good size
summary here for folks who can't actually read the
comic and that's after Crystal Lake is polluted
by industrialists boo capitalism,
the waste is dug up and shipped out. But
they also in that waste capture Jason Voorhees,
who has been living under the lake. Jason arrives in
Texas, where he meets up with Leatherface, the Hitchhiker, and
the cook of the disturbed Sawyer family from the
first chainsaw movie. The three killer cannibals
recognize Jason as one of their own, and they bond over
their love of killing. Jason also uh.
Uh, go ahead.
Jason also sees a kindred
soul in Leatherface
and sees that Leatherface's abuse at the hands
of the hitchhiker reminds Jason of his own
beatings by his father. Eventually Jason
earth traumatized child monster.
Exactly. And eventually Jason can't take
it anymore and lashes out at the Hitchhiker. But the other
Sawyers come to his protection and they defeat
Jason. But rather than eat him, they decide to throw him
into the water. The water revives Jason, who
decides to head home to Crystal Lake, hopefully killing the
evil industrial.
Maybe that's the sequel series that was being set up
there. Uh, so this is your
first time reading this, right? Even though we've owned it for a.
Few no, I've read this before, but not in
many years now. And it was interesting. I was
reading in the third issue, Nancy
Collins has a letter and she was approached by Jim
Salakrup, who we also just saw at New York Comic.
Con and got a drawing he did of Thanos
Copter.
And she was
approached hey, do this mashup of Friday the 13th of
Jason and Leatherface. And she was like, well, these are two characters that
don't speak. How am I going to do that? And her
thinking was, I need to make sure I'm
incorporating the whole
Cannibal clan. That's how I'm really going
to tell this story. And for me,
that's what really makes a Texas Chainsaw Massacre
movie is that whole kind of idea of family.
Jason's kind of our protagonist in this, but it's
really more of a but
he's our protagonist, but in a chainsaw, uh, world
kind does.
Yeah, it is, right? The
whole comic is a Texas Chainsaw
Massacre comic. And they just plop Jason in it to
the point where even as you said, he
is on a train from the very beginning and leaves
camp Crystal Lake. And so the whole thing is
in Texas. Uh uh. He really never
talks because I love they ask him his name and he writes it
on the wall in blood. Is that like he never
talks.
There's one movie when he says something when he's
been mutated back into a child for a little bit.
That's about it. But no, he never talks. And Leatherface always just
makes like those weird little noises in the
movie. So, yeah, they're two nonverbal characters.
So did you enjoy
this?
I think Nancy Collins did a great job
of capturing the world of these two
characters. And I also really love that
she did this backstory for them. So, yeah,
I think this is actually a lot
of fun.
What did you think?
Yeah, I agree. I think it
fulfilled the mission. So I, uh,
wouldn't have read this otherwise. And
that's fine. But she
gives it a little bit of an emotional core. I mean, it's
not too deep or that interesting. But
I think the stuff I almost think it's actually a little
camp, which is good. In know,
Jason finds, uh, Leatherface at one point,
like sobbing on his bed. And that's when they
really bond and decide they're going to take care of each
other. And then I love the and spoiler if
someone's going to go read this. But I love that in the
end, when Leatherface
attacks Jason to protect the family that now
Jason is fighting with, jason
realizes it was a mistake for
him to care and defend someone. And he even
says in the narration box or the omnipotent narrator
I can't remember says like jason
finally made the decision to defend someone else
and it was the wrong decision. So it has
a little bit of an arc here that it's almost like Jason
decides, okay, I'll have a
moral compass for this person.
But again, it's campy enough that it's never
sappy. So I think that was fun and
silly.
Yeah. And I think the
art is part of the thing that makes it
campy, too. I love actually. Jeff
Butler's. Art. Along with the inks and the colors here,
there's something that just makes it pop and
gives it that kind of cartoonishness. And also some
of the grossness. Like Jason, who's in full on
zombie mode at this point, you just see how
his brains are oozing out of his head.
And when there is gore, I think it's really
well done. There's a really cool, big splash
page in issue number three. That love.
Oh, I thought you were going to say something. So
the I'll get to what I thought were gonna say, but the artist,
Jeff Butler, he's still doing books. And
he started,
uh, with, uh, independent comics mostly, but he's
also done a lot of video game art. So he's done
stuff for the Dungeons and Dragons or game art, I
should say. He's done Dungeons and Dragons and a lot of fantasy
art and other role playing games. But then he
did do a lot of tie in comics because he did Hercules
and Xena and Jurassic Park. This
he did Godzilla versus Charles Barkley, which might be
something we one day have to cover.
And then he's still doing some comics.
Again, generally independent stuff, or,
uh, uh, little one shot
things that he does. So I like the art. What
I thought you were going to say is fun because it
tells you that the series is going to be campy is in the
opening sequences, when you get just how brutal
Jason is and you have him start killing people
and kills, um, the person who's trying to be
helpful cuts his hand off. He says, Why are you doing this? I was trying to
help you. Cuts his head off. And then he
just cuts the dog in half. Dog
that's, uh, there on the train with him, he just cuts in half.
So that was also a funny art moment
because it's literally like almost like a wiener dog and
his body is just sliced in half.
Yeah, but even that like what you just mentioned.
Yeah. So there is a homeless person on the
train and he tries to befriend Jason,
almost like a Frankenstein monster with the blind man
kind of scenario. But Jason just kills him right away.
And it kind of ties into what you were just saying with the narration
at the end of the book, too, where
Jason took this
moment like, oh, uh, wait, I am going
to have a friend in leatherface while this homeless person
tried to befriend him. And he said, no, I'm not going to have you as
my friend. And then once he realizes he's
then attacked by the Sawyers. Yeah. There is this
moment of like, oh, no, I can't anybody?
Yes. The family has had many different names. They're like the
Sawyers in the movies. Then they're the Hewitts in
the later movies. They're the Slaughters in this movie. I don't
think they're ever the Slaughters in any of the movies, though I
could be wrong.
Well, and I like that, uh, mother is
named Doris instead of Pamela,
which is very weird.
I don't know if Nancy
didn't have access to the movies or watched them. Yeah.
Because Jason's mother has a different
name. Crystal Lake is in Vermont, where
it's usually considered in New Jersey. So I
don't know if those were just changes.
That one I figured could have easily been like an art error
because it was only in a billboard at the end that
you see Crystal Lake, Vermont. But
the Doris is strange, and I have no idea
what the deal with that is.
And what did you think of giving
Jason this background? Because Jason doesn't usually
have much of a background. We know he
didn't, uh, look like other kids and was picked on that we
know in the movies. But that's kind of
so but here he had an abusive father and that
the mother killed the father. That's not stuff that
we really get from the movies. So what did you think of
having that here, giving him a bit more?
It matches so well to who the character is that I had to
ask you if it was in a movie because it just
seems everything we know about Pamela and Jason,
it would make sense that that was true.
So I think that's fine. And
it's brief. It's just these brief flashback
panels. But I
was fine with it. I'm probably the wrong person to
ask. How did you feel about it?
Uh, I agree. I think it works really well
in giving him this backstory and that the first
person his mother killed was his
father. I think that just fits
so well that he saw this violence from
an early age. And it's also interesting they don't really go into
this comic in the comic. But I'm thinking, oh,
Jason is always so attached to his mother. And the mother is
such a big character, while in especially the first two
Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies. And in the
comic, there's really an absence of women in
that family that you have near dead
grandpa as the patriarch, basically.
And in number two, you have that really
cool designed, like Morton Joe type woman
who I think he calls their aunt or something.
I think it's Grandma. I think it's supposed to be Grandpa's
now.
And what's interesting is then, um,
in this comic, there is someone who actually has a very
similar design, clearly on purpose, who is,
I think in a comic, maybe it's supposed to be one of their aunts who's
like going to eat with them.
Any other final words? Would you
want to spend more time in
this joined universe?
I wouldn't because they're not
worlds I care about. But I'd be fine
if there was more because this
was really well executed. More
importantly, would you want to spend more time
I think the story that.
They got between the two of them was
enough here. I don't think I'd want to spend more time
here. I would love to see Jason go
back and kill the evil capitalists.
It's kind of weird that it doesn't end with him actually
killing them because the story starts with
them. They've polluted Crystal Lake so much that.
They'Re going to for sure the pollution. I thought it was going
to become like a toxic crusader story for
sure. Ultimately it only matters because they
drudge him up from the bottom of the lake. But I
thought there was so much and it was actually a lot of
dialogue even. And I was like, oh, this didn't mean
anything.
They've hired like a mobster to also get rid of
all this stuff. So there's a lot of pages in
the first issue devoted to that before we even get to
Texas. And it's weird that at the end we know
Jason's going back home, but we don't see like an
epilogue where he kills these people. And I think in
general, it would be a good
Friday the 13th movie. Something centered a little bit
around environment and polluting the
lake. And I could totally see that as a
plot in something.
Uh, yeah, I agree. So maybe it
was intended to have a sequel, but
as of now, 20 years later,
25 years later, 28 years later, almost 30
years later, no sequel.
Well, we're giving grandpa the hammer and he's
going to try to continually bash us
into pondering possibilities.
So Guido, what are we talking about for our pondering
possibilities?
But we'll just ponder the possibilities not
just amongst these two franchises
and things that have come out of them recently and the possibility
of them crossing over more, but horror crossovers in
general. You mentioned Freddie versus
Jason, which was probably the
biggest. We know horror crossovers have existed
forever. We have, um, Abbot and Costello meeting
Frankenstein, all those kinds of things. But that was certainly
a huge moment in film. And then of course,
Alien versus Predator did the same thing. But
I feel like in the last 20 years, we
haven't had so much crossover. So we can
speculate a little on what we might
see. Crossover.
Yeah, it wasn't one of the most recent ones. The Grudge and the
Ring.
They crossed in Japan.
They did a ah, Grudge versus Ring, which
was really fun.
Godzilla and King Kong. That's a little outside of horror.
Horror crossover.
Yeah. Isn't King Kong public domain or no?
Uh, yeah, I think it's maybe a little
yeah. They've been trying to do it with some of those
shared universes too, that haven't happened. But
I don't think yeah, it seemed to be more of a comic
book thing, maybe just because it's easier and a lot
cheaper. We've seen with the IP. Yeah,
with the IP.
Although clearly in this era of
IP of the last 15
years, thanks largely to the MCU.
I wonder if that's why we haven't seen comics of these
characters. And I wonder if
that's why even in comics, you won't
see crossovers. Because
2030 years ago, people
didn't think it mattered. They didn't
think of Friday the 13th necessarily
as a brand in that way, or as
canon. And certainly comic books
were not seen as a place where you needed to
protect your brand or anyone cared. I mean, the comic we read
today, I was surprised, sweared in it,
which wasn't, uh, especially for Tops.
Topps was publishing Jurassic Park. They were publishing
Xena and Hercules, so they were not
anything avant garde. So
it just shows you that I think people weren't paying as close
attention today. Any deal, any
creative product, any story is going to have
a million eyes on it and probably therefore
die and never get made.
Well, I think I'm, um, not alone in being
one of the people that would love to see a lot of the
80s into 90s
characters cross over and do some
I'm even thinking something like
Jigsaw and
Ghost Face or something like that. Uh,
I think there's just a lot of possibilities. I'm sure all these
things, as you're saying, because of rights, are just not
going to happen.
Well, why do you think
horror crossovers
are a thing? I mean,
arguably I'm not an expert, though
you and I know a lot about this. Arguably, horror movies are
some of the first movies that had crossovers. If you look
at something like Abbot, uh, and Costello
Meet, like, those are some of the first
cinematic crossovers. The
universal horror movies, even though they never refer
to each other, are sort of considered a shared
like. And then of course, we've seen in comics
Ash versus Jason versus Freddy,
and this comic that we read
today, or even Marvel zombies versus
army of Darkness. Why do you think
horror characters lend themselves
to the mega crossover?
I think because they share a lot of the DNA. Kind of
going back to the start of our conversation where you were getting Friday the
13th and Nightmare on Elm Street confused, even though
they're very, very different movies.
One of the killers talks a lot. One doesn't talk at all.
But they share enough of the DNA of these
scared teenagers and these
isolated locations that I think,
oh, we can take the character from
movie A or comic A and put it into
B and we wouldn't have to change everything
else around it. Even think someone like Chucky, you
could easily put onto a summer camp,
right, and do a crossover. One of the kids brings
Chucky with them to a summer camp, and he encounters
Jason right there.
Chuck the show and Ghostface, maybe, because they're
my two favorite franchises, but I would love
that. That would just be some
meta Kooky fun.
Yes, that's true. They're both very meta.
Yeah. So I think that's why I think they have this
shared DNA that they're all able to take.
Even, like you mentioned, the Universal horror movies, they all
had that kind of gothic feel. So that's
one of the reasons why I think they were able to cross
over.
Maybe violence, too. It's the same as superheroes. You
sort of want to know who would win and totally
explains why these characters are licensed
for things like Mortal Kombat, because
it's just fun to imagine Jason
fighting Predator or
Freddy fighting in that case,
I don't know. Sub zero.
Well, that's one of the things that always I always think about
with these versus kind of setups. Because even
in the comic we just discussed, there's
very little Jason versus Leatherface.
There's maybe a, uh, two.
I actually wasn't even sure how they'd get there because
they're like allies, and they make such
reasonable allies. So it was fun to then see
how she has the threat on the family be the thing that turns
him into the guardian of the so.
And in Freddy versus Jason, the movie,
most of the movie, Freddy is controlling Jason. They only
fight much later on. And it's making me think the superhero
ones, too. Whenever there was Superman versus
Spider Man, there's very little actual
fighting that they do there's. Like, they fight for a few
pages, and then they realize, oh, they need to team up to get
the bigger threat. So, yeah, you always want to
hint at who would win. But as we've heard
from other comic readers, oh, you never want to have one
character really beat the other because you're just going
to anger the opposite fans too
much.
Yeah. And this comic series we
read, uh, follows that rule, for
sure.
My question for you would be,
other than rights, or maybe rights are just the answer,
but why do you think there hasn't been more
comics with these seminal characters?
It's interesting when you think there's been a lot more characters
with Hellraiser, a lot more comics with Hellraiser,
which is a lot less famous
franchise than Friday the 13th, but yet
we haven't had a Friday the 13th
comic in over ten years. Why do
you think that is?
Other than, I think canonicity, if
that's a word. If it's not, I'm going to make it up, and I'm going to
copyright it. I think canonicity is a big
part of it because something like
Hellraiser, the vast majority of the comics don't
have pinhead in them. They're just. Stories
set in the world. And so I
think any world where you can do
that lends itself to storytelling. I
think once you get to a prime character,
which Jason is, Halloween
is, and Nightmare on um, Elm Street
is, and Texas Chainsaw are all prime
characters, you suddenly run into a struggle of like, where
do I put this story? Am I retelling the origin?
Am I following the original and creating a recall?
Am I doing a sequel to everything that's been
published? But then are they going to treat this as canon when they make the
next installment? Like, you run into so many issues with
canon, and so I think that's probably
a huge part of mhm.
Yeah. Yeah. Fans are so
particular, even for something like Texas Chainsaw Massacre,
which has not had a really consistent canon
across its decades, I think you'd still
anger fans. Oh, which version of these characters
are you including in?
But I don't even think it's just fan culture. I imagine as
a storyteller, it is a little bit harder to
tell a story because you have to make all those decisions
and that might take away from your vision
or might make it hard for you to
implement your own vision. So I don't think it's just fan
culture. I think it's harder when you're dealing with something like that.
It's why I've talked about before with you, at least,
if not on the show. I don't know. A, uh, Scream
comic I think would work in the same way that the Scream
TV show, which I didn't watch and maybe didn't work.
But you can create that because you
can have a ghost face and remove it from the
Sydney Prescott lore and it becomes like
an anthology series. You can still
play with that. So I think
that anything that you can
remove because there's no central character in Scream. That's
ghost face. There's
multiple ghost faces. So mhm,
I think that as soon as you have one single character, you
just run into so many questions about mhm, which
version of the character, and all of that.
Maybe that's one of the reasons why Hellraiser works in that
format. Because the cenobites
exist beyond time and
place. They can pop up wherever they want,
and you could probably have multiple ones of them at the
same time. They don't exist.
That take place in the past and, um, the present and
maybe even the future. I have no idea. I don't read them. So,
yeah, I think that's one thing that's tricky
about Halloween, friday
the 13th, Nightmare on Elm Street, and Texas Chainsaw
is they are all bound up in a single
character. Yeah, Freddie works
because Freddie is removed from reality in the same way
the cinema are. So I think Freddie lends himself a little
bit more. I mean, you still have to grapple with, am I going to give
Freddy some emotional origin story or
not? What are the limits of his powers, you
have to grapple with some questions. But because he
has powers and can exist in a dream world,
you can pull him out of reality. And I think that's a little
easier to deal with. Jason has always been somewhat
grounded in reality, even when he's immortal.
Yeah, totally. And what do
you think just looking to the future
franchises with this? So we had a Texas Chainsaw
Massacre and film in 2022 on Netflix.
To me, it didn't do a great job of it because there was only
leatherface. And even when you go back to what
the author of the comic said, you need the whole
family. So to me, it wasn't really a Texas Chainsaw
Massacre movie. It could have just put
anyone else in there. It had some of the
gentrification aspects that are even touched on in the
original film, though. So I think we'll see
probably another one. I'm sure we will. These
franchises never die. But the one we do I didn't.
See that one and I won't.
The one we do know about, which I'm super excited if it actually
happens, because there's some questionable things with the creator. And the
rights always with this franchise is Friday the
13th, the prequel series on
Peacock. Are you excited
for that, do you think? Some of the stuff that actually was
touched on in this comic in terms of Jason's
backstory, do you think we'll see some version of that
on this series?
I have no idea.
I'm into it because I like world building. And
you've even actually often talked on this show about
world building working
when a creator has
limitations. And in this case, there might be some
rights limitations about what they can and cannot
include in this. And so I think
that could make it really interesting.
Uh, in spite of recent things
about the possibility that Brian Fuller is not a nice person,
I love the arts he's created. And this is from a
24, which is also fascinating. So I think
it's got the right ingredients to be really cool
if it happens. Yeah.
And on a previous episode, my
speculation when we were doing some speculations for the
future was that this was going to be a, uh,
queer Jason. Not just because of the creator.
But I think you even said that. Didn't I feel like you said that
before this got announced.
I think I might have I don't even know.
You were prescient. But then when I look, you said that
before this was announced.
Even at the comic we were just discussing in the
flashbacks, the father, because Jason is going to
hide behind his mom. And his father even
says, be a like don't be like a sissy boy,
a mama's boy. And it's like, oh my gosh. So much of this
could be easily then transformed into
a queer metaphor.
Yeah. Um, I'm sure that if the series happens,
it will be it has crystal
in the title. Come on.
That's true.
So I think that is a
wrap. I'm glad we survived the
experience. Dear
Watchers, thank you for listening.
I have been Guido and I have
been robberface.
Oh, yeah. I've been Guido Voorhees. Our reading
list is in the show notes. Please do follow us online
on all social media at, uh, dear Watchers, and.
Leave a review wherever you listen to podcasts. A five star
review. We'll be back soon with another trip through the
multiverse.
In the meantime, in the words of ought to keep pondering the
possibilities.
Chip.