If you don't set goals, if you don't know what you're shooting for and have a very clearly defined endgame, what you're going for, then you're always gonna feel like you're floating and you're never getting any traction. And that is really defeating. That is discouraging. That leads to so much friction and confusion in your home because if you aren't exactly sure where you're going, you can't take your children there either.

Hi, friends! I came across a startling statistic recently. Did you know that nearly 40% of US children don't have strong emotional bonds with their parents? When I read this, it really stopped me in my tracks because studies tell us that these connections are crucial for our kids' success and happiness in life.

And without these bonds, what we do know is that children might face challenges like emotional instability, difficulty in forming relationships, and struggles with self esteem during their childhood and later in life. Considering this and how it can shape our homeschooling path, I was reminded of Leslie Nunnery's inspiring heartschool philosophy. And I'm thrilled to have her as an esteemed guest on our show today. Leslie is a dedicated Christian author, speaker, and a passionate advocate for homeschooling. As the cofounder of Teach Them Diligently, she provides resources to support and enrich homeschooling families.

She's penned great books like Teach Them Diligently, Raising Children of Promise, and Heart School, how amazing parents become excellent home educators. She hosts the Homeschooling Families podcast. In her latest book, Leslie emphasizes that homeschooling from the heart is more than just an educational choice. Am I hearing an amen, ladies? I hope you're, like, raising the roof right now.

It's a lifestyle that strengthens family connections and builds meaningful relationships. Her work offers practical insights for all of us as we are homeschooling our children in the day to day. So today, mamas who are listening, prepare for Leslie to pour wisdom into us today and to guide us as a veteran homeschooler and we will delve into how Heartschool can transform our homeschooling journey into a lifestyle that not only educates our kids and gives them a great education, but also fortifies vital emotional bonds that we talked about earlier in my intro. Thank you so much for coming on today, Leslie. I have been looking forward to this, and I want to start just by getting to know you a little bit.

There might be people, since I'm kind of a TikToker, that's how I started out, my guess is there's gonna be a lot of listeners today who maybe haven't heard of you before and heart schooling, and that's a travesty because they need to know who you are. So would you mind, and I'm sure because you've been in this space for so long, I know you've told this story a 1000000 times, so I've please forgive me for asking you to say it again, but I would love you to share about your background and your homeschooling journey and how it all started for you.

Oh, I would love to. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here and just to to hang out with you. This is a really exciting time. I was stunned by that statistic that you gave at the beginning. I hope we double back to that and talk about that in a little bit.

My path is one that started with I would never homeschool. I wanted no part of it as so many people have that as their backstory. David and I actually moved to where we live now for the express purpose of putting our children in a private school here. We had our older 3 were enrolled in that school. I was a room mom.

I was involved. It was a great Christian school, so they had teachers who loved them and were pointing them to Jesus, and it really seems like everything was going according to my script. But then God really started impressing on my heart that my time with my children was very, very short, And if I wanted to impact them the way that I believed I was called to and if I wanted to give them a foundation for a faith that was their own that would stick with them forever, that I had to be very intentional with the time that I had with them. And so for the first time in my life, this concept of homeschooling started kinda coming into to my thoughts, and I really thought I was nuts. And I I I joke all the time.

I say I prayed about it for a while, but, really, I was just arguing with the Lord telling him, you know, I don't think you really want me to do this, Lord. And then I had this epiphany. I can bring this idea to David and tell him what I've been thinking and praying about, and he is probably going to say this is another one of my wild haired ideas, and he's gonna talk me off the ledge. But I have obeyed and submitted to my husband and, you know, then I kinda push the onus of actually making this decision on him. And so I went to him, and it was amazing.

God had been working in his heart too, which he often does. And so together, we prayed for about a day because at that point, it was very clear that this is what God was calling us to do. And, we brought the idea to our kids, again, expecting an uproar, and they were all in, wanted to start right away. So we started homeschooling our kids when my oldest was starting 4th grade. My older 3 were in school for a little while.

My youngest one who is a senior this year has never been in school, has been homeschooled from the beginning. But it has been the most amazing journey, and God used that one simple step of obedience in ways that we would have never imagined, including having us start teach them diligently at the end of our 1st year of homeschooling, which was just insane because we knew nothing about anything at that point.

That now, you mentioned that your oldest was a 4th grader. How was that transition pulling your 4th grader out of the school and homeschooling?

It was actually so much better than I thought it would be. We had always had a close family. We had prioritized relationships from the very beginning, and we also were in a good church. We had every advantage to kind of starting there in the middle that we possibly could. And, you know, we were able to do that without a whole lot of friction.

Honestly, during that 1st year, some friends of mine and I came up with the Honestly, during that 1st year, some friends of mine and I came up with the idea, and this I tell young moms all the time, this is gold. You should do this. There were 3 of us with, like, 8, 9 kids together, and we would every Thursday, everybody would come to my house. 1 mom would stay with the kids. So the kids would have a day of the week where they would do school together somewhat and then play and have lunch and all that.

So you either, as a mom, got a day off or you had a day of fellowship. And either way, it it was life giving to us in those early years, and we did that for a couple of years until we started plugging into different co ops and stuff like that. But, really, because we were kind of strategic both in relationships within our family as well as relationships with others, we really didn't have a struggle with pulling him out and any backlash from our older son.

As a homeschool mom who values a family together approach and leans towards the classical and Charlotte Mason styles, I often struggle to bring my educational vision to life with my kids' diverse ages and learning needs. With all our interests and super packed schedule, bridging that gap between the dreamy homeschool I want and reality, I gotta be honest. It's a challenge. Now, yes, I know perfection isn't the goal. But if you're listening and you could use a little easing of your mental load in your day to day, I found a resource that has become the quiet hero of our routine and it could be a really great option for you, too.

BJU Press homeschool curriculum. Now, many think that BJU Press homeschool is solely an all in one option. And though it does excel in that role, did you know you can also opt for specific courses and tailor them to fit your family's needs just as I have? BJU Press homeschool provides the perfect balance of structure and flexibility and easily complements my family's mixed age, family together on the couch learning style. They are second to none in integrating a biblical worldview, stimulating critical thinking, and offering tons of hands on activities in the lessons.

To find out how BJU Press Homeschool can come alongside you in your homeschooling goals too, visit bjupresshomeschool.com or click the link in the show notes. Oh, that's absolutely wonderful. This is We're now in We're filming this in October And right now, in with the mamas that I mentor, we're struggling right now with Yeah. Trying to rework things and reeducate, deschool a little bit. That's great that you had that easy transition, and it was only 1.

Right? We are we're dealing with mamas who've, like, pulled all 4

right now. Well, and I had pulled all I pulled 3 at once, and then I had a toddler running around at that time. So so yeah. It was a little different. That was a long time ago now, and you didn't have as much information coming at you all the time.

And in a way, that was easier because we didn't know about anything that we didn't know about. So we were able to just do our things, which there's a lot of peace in that.

You know, I was just talking to Scott about this the other day. It's this paralysis with too many options and knowing too much and having too much information. It's like, okay. We know you probably didn't even think about the 9 different pedagogies back then. You just homeschooled.

Right?

You had no idea what any of that meant. And I think that's why, you know, you mentioned heart school earlier. I think that's why it was always easy for me to focus on what we have now called heart schooling because I didn't have all this other stuff. I just had what God's word told us to do within our families and then building a school around, the education around it. And so that's I I think that was a privilege, honestly.

Would you explain to everybody what HeartSchool is?

Oh, I would love to. So HeartSchool is, at its core, the intersection of biblical parenting and excellent home education. All of us who have homeschooled it all know homeschooling is way more about parenting and discipleship than it is about any of the academics. Although they all work together, as parents, that's our first call. Our primary job with our children is to parent them well, prepare them for life.

And then that mode of education, homeschooling actually comes in as a great support for that. But hard schooling really helps you line those priorities up so that you remove a lot of friction, a lot of second guessing your decisions from your day.

Yes. That is so beautiful. And you know what? You mentioned intersection of biblical parenting and excellent education. I love that because we get a lot of flack, right, for our kids not being smart or not being properly educated.

And every homeschool mom I've ever known, one of her motivations, yes, faith, which is a valid reason to homeschool your kiddos. Yeah. Everybody, I just want everyone to hear that. And I take such a firm stance on that is that raising our kids with our faith is nothing that anybody should be apologizing for. It's actually a constitutional right, people.

But also, we get accused of often not preparing our kids well academically and that is just not true.

Oh, no. No. In fact, I in the hearts as I was studying for the heartschool book, kind of putting stuff together, I found a research study that was released by the University of Wisconsin Madison, and it talked about how over 15 years of the states doing research into educational reform, all centering around curriculum or teaching styles or more training for the teachers, whatever, none of that actually moved the needle like they wanted it to on educational success in those schools because and they said this and I'm gonna just kind of read it to you. Because children's academic achievement is shaped more by their lives outside the school walls, particularly by their parents. So for this secular study, they said that when parents are involved, the kids get better grades, they have better scores on standardized tests, they have better attendance, they are less likely to drop out, they have higher aspirations, and they have a better, more positive attitude about education in general.

Even secular researchers can see that a parent's role in their child's life is the number one predictor of academic success. So to say that homeschooling is a lesser version of education is just untrue. It can't be proven by data. We have a lot of data that shows the other.

Yes. Absolutely. And this leads to the next question because you're really big on families setting goals. And not just goals, but proper goals. Why is this so critical for homeschooling families?

And also, if you're not a homeschooler because I do have a lot of parents that are maybe homeschool curious and also listen too. Why is this so critical?

If you don't set goals, if you don't know what you're shooting for and have a very clearly defined end game, what you're going for, then you're always gonna feel like you're floating and you're never getting any traction. And that is really defeating. That is discouraging. That leads to so much friction and confusion in your home because if you aren't exactly sure where you're going, you can't take your children there either. So by understanding your calling, first of all, which is to parent your children, that's your first and foremost call.

I believe that homeschooling is a great tool for your primary call, but in no parent's life is homeschooling your primary call. So once you understand that your primary call is to parent your children well, then you start making goals that get you there. And that includes educational goals, but it also includes character goals and life skills and all of these other areas because you are educating the whole person. And you want to very much focus on the heart of that child, so the relationships, the spiritual formation, all of those things. Because, again, you are preparing them to launch out into a world where they're gonna need to be able to stand on their own.

And so as a parent, we are very privileged to get to invest the time and energy in preparing them well for that.

Yeah. And don't you think homeschool moms in general, we tend to be really hard on ourselves. And I have found that if I don't set goals or find my why or whatever you wanna call it, it's really just knowing your purpose. I will be really hard on myself and feel like I haven't achieved anything in my homeschool or my kids are and and I love the book, The Gap and the Gain. And I actually talk about this way of thinking in my talk that I do on special needs, homeschooling kiddos with special needs.

And the philosophy is basically what you're saying here. And that is that when we set goals, then we can actually know how far we've come. Right. Because especially if you have a kiddo who struggles to learn And it's like, we're on our 5th week of long division. Right?

But at the end of the year or maybe at Christmas, we can say, wow, look. Long division was really hard and look what we accomplished. And it kind of puts you in that mindset of being able to look back and have a more positive because I think a lot of homeschool moms are perfectionists. I mean, we're doing this because we're like, fine. You can't do it.

I'll do it better later. Alright. I'll do it. There's a, there's a TikTok funny sound that was viral a while ago and it was like, fine, I'll do it myself. And it was just really funny to watch all those tick the homeschool mom TikToks doing that sound.

I'm sure it came on reels too on Instagram. But you also talk about how impactful it is for Christian families to gather together and learn and grow. Would you speak to that a

little bit? Oh, yeah. One of the things that is really unfortunate is that in the business world, in a professional world, there's so much focus on growing and continuing education and so on. And yet when it comes to parenting, when it comes to homeschooling, so often, people don't look at it that way. First of all, incredibly important to continue to grow personally and to educate yourself so that you can do your job with excellence.

You can do what God has called you to do better. So coming to an event, gathering together is a good way to do that. But the other thing was we weren't created to live in isolation. In fact, when you are insulated or isolated, you are so much easier pickings for the enemy who knows that, you know, that lone that lone little gazelle over there is is real easy prey. Whereas when you come together, you gather together, you are able to see that you're not alone.

You're able to actually engage with others who are making very similar decisions. You're able to have fellowship that is deep and meaningful and fun. And so as you're learning and growing kind of professionally to do what God has called you better, you're also emotionally growing as you are getting excited in a very different way about what God has called you and you feel that community around you. So gathering together is truly one of the best ways to breathe new life into what you're doing by really nurturing your soul through that fellowship and community.

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Now, Let me ask you, when you speak on this, are you thinking more in terms of a formal co op? Are you thinking more socially for families to get together?

You know, I I think families need to get together. And all of those things actually serve different purposes. You know, we engaged in a co op. My kids played homeschool athletics, and so there were families in those groups that we gathered with often. We are in a great church.

We gather often with our brothers and sisters at church. But then also, you know, there are events specifically for homeschoolers that are educational type events. Those are phenomenal. But then just getting together that basically, what I described at the beginning that my two friends and I did when our kids were younger, that was a social engagement where you had fellowship, you had fun. We were doing school, but we were also really having fun and being very social and growing together.

But that also afforded a little bit of quiet time for moms, which you also need.

Yes. Okay. That makes a lot of sense. Now, I wanna get personal a little because when I get a homeschool seasoned mama on my podcast, I like to ask some hard questions because we are in the thick of it ourselves. Would you tell us about a homeschool struggle you had where, in the moment, you were worried, maybe even panicked?

Any mamas listening today kinda panicked about maybe a particular kid you have or a situation or something that's not seeming to work itself out. Would you share with us what you what that was, what you did, how it turned out, and what you learned?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's you know, there is a lot of scary moments. There are a lot of times when I was pretty sure that I was messing it all up, because just like probably every single person listening in, I have been very hard on myself. Thank the Lord.

I have a big rearview mirror now. That's a very cool thing. But one of the one of the biggest things for me my my 2 oldest children are boys, and then I have 2 girls that came after them. And boys are just a different breed. And as as for a mama, that's a different breed.

But as my boys were going from kind of elementary, middle school, high school, those transitions, I was absolutely certain that there was no way they were gonna be ready for anything. Like, they were not gonna be ready for the next year, let alone college and beyond. And that fear of of the breakdown, the fear of what have I not done, the fear of I can't push this elephant up a hill enough to get him to do his work. You know, all of those fears, I really struggled with, and it almost paralyzed me, honestly, because it was so intense. Just I was I was borrowing trouble from 4 years down the road right where I was, you know, in 7th, 8th grade, which God had to deal with me about.

But some of the things that we did at that point, we actually connected with a co op that was an academic co op so that for a few classes, my boys got accountability to someone that wasn't me. That really helped a lot, and I found that the boys needed it more than my girls did. But that put some structure in there that kind of moved all of their classes forward because there were very clear deadlines to someone else for some of their work. So that was a great help. I also through their high school, I outsourced the stuff that I didn't feel like I could do.

So the heavy sciences, the heavy math, I write, I talk, I love history. I'm in the arts type person. I am not the science and math type person. So we were able to utilize resources to outsource some of those classes to a co op here. That was really helpful.

And what God really taught me through all of that was to to trust him, not borrow trouble from tomorrow. Tomorrow will take care of itself. Trust and cast those cares on him. Do not fear. Just believe that what he says is true.

And what I've seen since then is God is working even when you feel like your children are behind. It is amazing to me as their maturity catches up with what you've taught them, how God just weaves it all together. And so by the time that they are ready to launch out, go their merry way, hit hit graduation, call it, whatever that path is for your kids, it's unbelievably awesome how God just ties all of those loose ends together, and we can trust the process that He is good and that He will manage that for us. What I would encourage you with is if you are like me, almost paralyzed with fear that your kids are not going to be able to make it through because of holes or whatever, I just want to encourage you to trust the process and trust the one who loves your kids and is guiding your steps as you follow him day by day.

Yes. That is so encouraging. I love that. Tie up those loose ends. I haven't heard it in that way before but, yes, absolutely.

And, you know, I think that that that's gonna really help a lot of people listening because, especially, you mentioned when you're in those junior high years, can be really tumultuous with hormonal changes. My husband was joking last week because we have an 8th grade son. And he and he joked, he's like, wow, it's really interesting watching you both go through the change together. Yeah.

It is. It's crazy. I I actually just finished the book on discipling preteens, so, like, 8 to 14 year olds. And just this study that I did on what's happening in those years within our kids, I wish that I had known it, you know, when I was going through it because it was fascinating to then be able to connect what's physiologically going on, what we're seeing in kind of brain development and outward actions, and then also what God is doing all during that same time. It was a very fun book to study for and write.

Oh, I cannot wait to get my hands on that. Yes. And then we'll have you on again when it comes out because I think that's so important. You and I sound very similar actually where we're more gifted in the humanities and we could talk about the lessons in history all day long. And then when it comes to math and science, I can barely make it through 3rd grade math.

But it doesn't mean that I'm not called to homeschool. And I think a lot of parents quit and give up during the tween teen years because they feel very intimidated. They feel like they've reached the end of their rope with their parenting skills. But that is gonna be really encouraging. My heart is to help families make it to the end because those later years homeschooling, when your child is really your teen is really starting to think about the world, ask really big, hard questions, we want them coming to you.

I want them coming to me with these hard questions. So being that safe place to land without any judgment where they can say, hey, I'm really struggling with this. Okay. I gotta get to the next question. My next question is, why is focusing on discipleship so crucial for the Christian family?

Well, discipleship is leveraging what you've learned in Christ on behalf of someone else. So as a parent, leveraging the lessons that God has taught me so that my kids can learn them earlier is a huge privilege. And, ultimately, you are discipling your children whether you're saying that you are or not. You are passing on your worldview, your faith through your actions and your words whether you're purposeful about it or not. So as a especially as a Christian family, it is so important that we train our children to give them a biblically literate understanding of what God's plan and purpose is for their life, they are launching out into a world that has lost its mind.

It is so upside down. And so to understand identity as God sees it, to understand value as God tells us, to understand salvation by grace alone, by faith alone, and not you know, you're not constantly striving to earn God's favor in that way. There's so many things that we want to be able to instill in our children so that they are prepared to give an answer, but also so that when they are asked these things or faced with these things, which they will be, even while you're sheltering them in your homeschool, they're still going to have conversations with people that is gonna really question their faith. And that's at a good church. That's at a good coop.

That is just the world in which we live. And so being able to actually spend the time to pass on those foundational elements of faith to our children is absolutely of utmost importance. And you do those through simple conversations in the in between moments, doing life together, and just let that what God is teaching you overflow to them. And it's just amazing how natural it is.

Yeah. And it reminds me, just like we don't outsource our education to the government, I am a big believer that we don't outsource our discipleship to our youth group. You know, like, it yeah. Youth groups are great. We participate.

We do all the things. We love our church. But it is not my church's job to teach my children the hard stuff about our faith. And and, you know, it's really interesting. You guys can look this up.

I'll probably get the number wrong, but I think the latest Barna study is it's less than 17% of kids in the US who were raised as a what they would be considered Christian still consider themselves Christian. These are kiddos who were raised going to church. And that is a really low, low statistic, and I think it partially is to instill some grace here too. We live in a society where we are told the message to parents is you shouldn't be doing the educating. Let the government do it.

And so we why wouldn't we also have that mentality with youth group and church? And if you've ever taught Sunday school or ever been involved in youth group, it's great and all of that, but it's also crazy and nuts and you not necessarily teaching your children how to study the word, for example, or teach them doctrines, which I think are really important, or putting scripture in their heart. That's our responsibility if we are raising our kids in our faith so that it's it sticks. I wanted to ask you too. Oh, let's just go to this next one because a lot of people might be wondering, you mentioned teach them diligently earlier.

What is teach them diligently?

Teach them diligently is it started, like I noted, at the end of our 1st year of homeschooling. We we hosted an event at way back in 2012 was our first event. So we had planned it for a year. We started it in 2011. It's to celebrate discipleship in homeschooling.

It's to equip and encourage parents to do their jobs with excellence. This year, we'll have 4 multi day events where we will have about 130 to 150 different workshop options for you to choose from, 2 to 3 keynotes, a vendor hall full of thousands of resources, and literally thousands of other people who look and think very similar to you where you can connect with and learn alongside and grow with. That's what teach them diligently started as was events. And through the years, God has allowed us to have books and blogs and podcasts and all these things that we never would have ever imagined, but God's plans are always bigger than ours.

Yes. Yes. That's absolutely wonderful. And you also mentioned how it's changed since. I love that you really have that heart to come alongside.

So it's not just an organization where you show up to a conference one time a year and then just leave. Your heart is to really, like you said, to equip and encourage mamas in their journey, and I absolutely love that. Now, you have kind of a different view in the homeschooling space than a lot of other thought leaders. Would you share a little bit about how you view things differently? Well, I

think that there are a lot of people who think similarly to what I do. I'm a little more out there with it, but I alluded to it earlier. I don't believe that your primary call is ever to homeschool your kids. I think that homeschooling is a tool for your primary call, which is to parent and disciple your children well. Your first job is mom or dad.

And when you get that disrupted, when your parents look at you and they think that what you like best or what your primary role is as teacher, you're gonna have so much friction and chaos in your family and it's gonna really fracture relationships. So when you line those things up correctly with the heart schooling approach, then you're gonna find that a focus on the heart first, those relationships, faith, character, all of those things actually build a better platform for the excellent academics to be built on. And it shouldn't be amazing because it's really when you look at scripture, discipleship was God's idea. Parents passing on their faith, that's what God told the children of Israel through Moses to do as they were entering the promised land. Teach your children diligently.

In his last address to the children of Israel when they're going into the promised land, he doesn't address the military leaders or the religious leaders. He addresses parents. He says this is if our society is going to succeed and flourish, it's on you to pass these truths down to your kids, And that's a really big deal. So that's that's the passage that we got our ministry name from. But as parents, we should be teaching our children diligently as we walk, as we talk, as we do the laundry, as we sit in the car riding along, as we are picking up groceries.

And it's amazing when you are focused on hearts and relationships, how excellent academics truly do follow those just in a very natural way.

Yes. Yeah. I see that too because if we care, we care so much. So we care about mind, body, and soul. We care about all of it.

Yes. I wanna ask you. I ask a lot of guests this, and it's not to be negative, but it's really just to see, okay, how are you thinking about things? And I'd like to ask my guests, what is something in our industry in homeschooling that you just can't get behind? You just disagree with, and you're like, not so much there.

I should have put some thought into that one. There's actually, sadly, there's a good bit. One of the things that really grieves me, and, you know, I do a lot of working with with families year round. We have a membership site. We have a coaching element.

And I hear so many who are so ragged out because they are plugged in to so many different things. And the pressure that a lot of times their co op or their, you know, hybrid school or whatever they're using as as a supplement, the pressure academically that they're putting on those kids is really removing the joy of learning. It is removing the opportunity for really focusing on relationships. And it grieves me because I think that there's an insecurity that a lot of groups prey on. When you kinda boil it down, you've got these parents who are a little bit insecure about the decision that they're making, and then you've got these chains that are being laid on them by other groups.

That is grievous to me because that is really impactful for families in a very negative way.

Hi, mama. If you like my social media content and my show, I'm pretty sure you will love my book Homeschool Rising, Shattering Myths, Finding Courage, and Opting Out of the School System. My book is for homeschool parents both veteran and new and the perfect book to hand any homeschool skeptics in your life so they can better understand why you've chosen this amazing lifestyle. This book will challenge you, empower you, encourage you, and give you solid mindful answers to all those questions you get about your homeschooling choice. Grab your copy and maybe an extra one for your mother-in-law today.

Homeschool Rising is available where ever books are sold. Hi there, podcast family. If our episodes bring a smile to your face, challenge you, or spark your thoughts, tap that like and subscribe button to stay connected with us. Also, we'd truly love to hear your voice in the comments. Your insights and stories are what makes this community special.

And not only does it allow us to hear you, but your engagement helps us reach more people and spread our message. So go ahead and don't be shy. Like, subscribe, and comment. Yeah, girl, you are speaking my language. I often say that, oh, and we love the homeschool pedagogies or the homeschooling styles and you guys know them, you know, we have the classical tradition, we have the Charlotte Masoners, we have the unschoolers, we have unit study.

You know, we have 9 different homeschooling styles. I like to ask mamas when I first meet them, where do you lean towards? Just because I want her to be able to find her people. It's not because I want her to choose this particular program and you can only use that. Because at least what I've learned, my background is highly academic.

I went to graduate school. I'm a trained historian. So, of course, is it gonna surprise anybody that I was very attracted to the classical style when I first started homeschooling? Oh, my goodness. My kids are gonna be savants and they're all gonna go to Harvard because they're gonna know Latin.

And here's the funny thing, my kids actually do know Latin but the Lord has really worked on my heart. It's in its proper place. I'm not just teaching my kids Latin so they can, you know, rattle off declensions. It's a decision that our family has made. And so I hear you there, Sister, where these things are helpful but they shouldn't own us.

And if we are ones that are clinging to, oh, I gotta use this one curriculum because this is, like, the only one and it's the best one, you know, that could be, you know, maybe a little bit of you're needing that structure because you don't have enough confidence in yourself. Right. And that's something to really look at. And one thing I love doing is showing mamas how you are enough. You have everything you need to be able to do this.

And, yeah, the styles and all the different programs and curriculum and all that, they are your tools.

Right.

They are not to be your master. And sometimes that curriculum just isn't a fit for that particular kid and it's okay. You're not a failure. Your kid's not a failure. And so I love that message.

And I wanted to also ask you, you know, about Christians. And in particular, we often get accused of indoctrinating our kids with our faith. And and I really wanted to ask you this today because teach them diligently is so forward with exactly what your intentions are. Your intentions are to disciple, have more parents together, discipling their kids, ultimately growing Christianity. Like, you guys make no apologies for that.

And I think that's really great. For a mama right now who maybe is new to homeschooling, maybe she's the first one in her family and and she gets these accusations or snide remarks. How would you encourage her today?

You know, it again, it comes back to what your calling is. You are a parent first. As a parent, whether you are a Christian parent or a Buddhist parent or, you know, an atheist agnostic parent, whatever world for you you have, as a parent, you want to pass that on to your children. You are talking in those ways. You are you are, to use your term there, the indoctrinating, and goodness knows the schools are.

Yeah. We we are. But that's because that's natural. It generally, you see families that think alike. That's because they are living together and doing life together.

That's a very natural thing. And I would not allow another group to commandeer that term to try to scare you from doing what God has called you to do, which is to teach your children diligently to love God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, to fear Him, to worship Him, to know Him. That is a privilege and a joy. And so whether you're homeschooling or not, that's what you're called to do. And I hope that no matter what educational modem you're using, that is what you're doing.

You're passing on your faith, your worldview, what's important to you, to your kids. You owe them that. That's God put them in your family for a reason and part of your job is to equip them in that way.

Yeah. That is so encouraging. Okay. I'm gonna throw you a curveball.

Uh-oh. I'm always ready for a curveball. Okay.

So there are, of course, a lot of rewarding aspects to homeschooling. We know this is great for our kids and and all of that. I kinda wanna talk just adult to adult here, like, mom to mom because I have grown so much personally through choosing to homeschool my kiddos. How have you grown throughout the years? What changes if, you know, your that self that you were when you were that new mom to who you are now, kind of, yes, the tool of homeschooling, but also homeschooling aside because we are people too.

We are mama too. We, you know, we need our chocolate at 4 PM. And so would you share with us a little bit about your just personal growth journey through your years of homeschooling as a woman?

Yeah, it's I'm sure I'm unrecognizable. I you know, the me that was alive when we started this journey and the me that is now, there's been a massive amount of growth, and it's interesting. God always uses what he puts in your hand. So through homeschooling, you know, one of the cool things for a mom is you're learning alongside your kids, but you are mature enough to understand the value of what you're learning. So you're, like, geeking out over all this cool stuff that you never remember studying in high school.

So I joke all the time that a homeschool mom should be the most interesting person on the block because we can talk about literature and science and history and math and all of these things because we're learning it all over again, and it's so exciting. So intellectually, it is stretching and it is exciting and it is fun for a mom. I found in my life, for sure, that God took skills and opportunities that He had given me before I had children. And through the years and through the opportunities that He gave me through Teach Them Diligently and other steps of obedience that we took, he is he has grown them and he is now asking me to put them in play. So he has taken me personally from an incredible introvert who just was perfectly satisfied to just kind of sit in the mall and watch people walk by and stay in my own little world to hosting events for thousands of people where I am engaging for 3 days straight without sitting down hardly.

I'm talking to people. That is new. That is different. That is only God could do that. He also took skills that he gave my husband and I years ago that we were using in the jobs that we had before kids, and he's using all of those skill sets through the ministry and the work that we're doing now.

That has grown from we're just event producers to now we're out front speaking and teaching and writing and doing all the things. So God has grown us me in countless ways through this journey, and I am grateful and unworthy, and I just stand in awe of what he has done.

Isn't that so neat? That's interesting you said you're an introvert because I am too. Do people always tell you, no, you're not. Do they argue with you? Yeah.

Yeah. Because they argue with me all the time. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Actually, just a little tidbit. Most of the people that you see speaking or podcasting or whatever are introverts. Just so you know, statistically speaking, most of us are introverts.

Okay. What are your thoughts as to why?

I think for me personally, I can share in this context really, really easily. I can talk 1 on 1 with someone very, very easily in a group of people. I'm horrible at small talk. I am horrible at all of these, you know, like, other social things. I just get overwhelmed by it all, not so much now as I used to.

But Yeah. Even from when before I had kids, if you put me with a microphone or put me on stage, I was golden. I was fine. I studied this out several years ago because several people, like Heidi St. John, several other of my friends are, like, I am just such an introvert.

And I'm, like, what is behind this? I keep hearing. So statistically, I found that most of your podcasters, your speakers, and so on are gonna be introverts.

Okay. Well, so you need me today. Yeah. There you go, people. So if you're an introvert, think of starting a podcast.

One thing that I'll say, podcasting, I have a lot of as aspects to what I do. Podcasting is probably one of my favorites. And I think it's because introverts, we are always in our heads. We are always analyzing in our heads. And we you're right.

We don't love small talk. On a podcast, you can't do small talk. Right. You have to be interesting.

Exactly. And you jump in and you keep going further and further in Yeah. It is, like, life giving to us.

It is. Yes. It it it is pretty incredible how for an introvert, I after I film, like, I'll be done with you today and I'll be talking about what a great interview I had today, you know, at dinner with the kiddos because it really is it it's energizing to talk about really solid, great ideas where all of us are kind of just growing together. I just love it. I wanna ask you, what is keeping you busy these days, and where can everybody find you?

And where can they find teach them diligently events and and everything that you guys have to offer?

Oh, well, thank you for that. There's a lot keeping me busy. It's I've I've launched 3 kids. I would have thought it got easier, but the Lord keeps opening more doors for which I'm grateful. So you can find teach them diligently events at teach them diligently.net.

While you're there, I would encourage you we have a membership site, which keeps me very, very busy. It is a site that or is a membership community where you have access to about 3,000 on demand recordings from our events. Plus, I teach every month in there. I do regular live office hours type events. There's community groups and so on.

All of that is in Teach Them Diligently 365. We also have Heart School Parenting Intensives where we walk side by side with parents in small groups to help them really line up their homes with a Heart Schooling mindset. It's incredibly impactful. So those are really professionally I write. I podcast.

All of those things are there as well, but the bulk of my time is really involved in mentoring moms and dads at this point, and I'm so grateful.

Oh, that sounds like a wonderful life. Thanks a lot. I love it so much. We are gonna put all of this in the show notes. Have no fear.

They will absolutely be there. And this was really fun. Thanks for coming on today.

Well, thank you so much for having me. It was a blast.