Leave Yesterday Behind === [00:00:00] Claire Fisher: Hello and welcome to Carried Far, Far Away, a podcast project where we are watching and reading everything that Carrie Fisher did during her short life and storied career. I'm Claire Fisher. Katie Marinello: I'm Katie Marinello Claire Fisher: And today we're talking about Leave Yesterday Behind. Katie Marinello: I am so excited to discuss this with you. I've been looking forward to it for a week. Claire Fisher: Well, why don't you start by telling our audience what this movie is about. Katie Marinello: Alright, ready to time me? Claire Fisher: go for it. Katie Marinello: Carrie Fisher plays Marnie Clarkson, an accomplished harness racer. She lives on the next ranch over from Doc, the local doctor, whose grandson Paul has come to stay with him after being paralyzed in a polo accident. Katie Marinello: Paul is resentful and irritable and unwilling to use his wheelchair or learn to navigate the world. One day he throws something through a window, which spooks the horse Marnie is harnessed to. She gives him what for, which her fiancé and father praise her for, but she is embarrassed when she learns of Paul's injury. Katie Marinello: Paul refuses to hear her apology, but they reconnect when he enlists her help to rescue Doc during a flash flood. They begin spending time [00:01:00] together and eventually share a kiss. After she wins her harness race, she tells him she's fallen for him but he's afraid to let her in because he's not sure if he'll ever be able to have sex. Katie Marinello: She persists despite her father's strong and bigoted protestations. Her father is forced to ask for Paul's veterinary expertise when Marnie's horse begins to foal and after the three of them deliver the horse together, seems they're willing to give it a shot. Claire Fisher: Um, Claire Fisher: Well, Marnie goes to him and He gives a little speech about the things he'll never be able to do and he says, Dance. And she says, You won't Katie Marinello: Oh, yeah, we're gonna go dance. Yeah. Claire Fisher: She says, You won't do me out of a dance. And she spins his wheelchair around. I thought that was pretty cute, because the song, Save the Last Dance for Me, was written by a man who was a wheelchair user Claire Fisher: watching his wife dance with all of their friends at parties, and he wrote the song [00:02:00] Claire Fisher: he actually had had polio. Katie Marinello: Okay. Claire Fisher: so I thought that was a super cute last scene, because I know the story of Doc Pomas. Anyway, Claire Fisher: let us discuss the times in which this was made, briefly. Claire Fisher: Apparently set in 1975. They mention that's the year at the polo tournament. But it aired May 14th, 1978, as an ABC Sunday night movie, which we remember from when we were kids. Claire Fisher: It was a regular program from 1964 to 1998. It would mainly air theatrical movies, which then declined in popularity because HBO got invented, however, the idea of the ABC Sunday Night Movie still technically exists because they still use that branding when they show the Ten Commandments on Easter, and The Sound Of Music just before Christmas every year. Claire Fisher: So, ABC still does this. Katie Marinello: okay. Claire Fisher: So, May 14th, 1978, the number one movie in America was one I have never even [00:03:00] heard of, Fist, spelled out Claire Fisher: F. I. S. T., starring Sylvester Stallone, loosely based on the Jimmy Hoffa story. Have you ever heard of Katie Marinello: No. Claire Fisher: Okay, so if you didn't want to go out and watch that at the movie theater, you could stay home and watch Leave Yesterday Behind. Claire Fisher: That Katie Marinello: Starring the now world famous Carrie Fisher. Claire Fisher: And the then world famous John Katie Marinello: John Ritter, Claire Fisher: also, I don't know if you noticed, but the commercial breaks during the ABC Sunday Night Movie were promoting Three's Company. Katie Marinello: Oh yeah, I noticed. Claire Fisher: was show was using him as much Katie Marinello: Actually, I made a note of this, what a lineup they were promoting. It was, Happy Days Laverne and Shirley and then Three's Company. I was like, damn that would have been a really cool hour and a half to be alive for back then. Claire Fisher: I guess it would have. We also saw John Ritter in Ringo, which I think also aired on ABC. So I feel like they kind of were just like, oh, any person they had on the roster would be in the ABC Sunday night movie, Claire Fisher: But this falls into, movies that would be shown on ABC Sunday Night. [00:04:00] issue movie, very special episode movie cause this is a movie about disability, Claire Fisher: so I just wanted to briefly mention where in the timeline of disability rights we land, and it's not great. Until 1974, there were still ugly laws in some cities that allowed police to arrest and jail people for being disfigured in public. Katie Marinello: What? Claire Fisher: The last one was repealed in Chicago in 1974. Katie Marinello: Oh my God. Claire Fisher: The first legislation guaranteeing, an appropriate public education for children with disabilities was passed in 1975. Katie Marinello: So that year. Cool. Claire Fisher: until The year that this takes place. Claire Fisher: you could be denied access to public school for having a disability of any kind. There were at this time no employment protections for adults with disabilities, which meant there was precious little representation for them in public life. Claire Fisher: Judy Heumann, a famous, disability rights advocate, was denied a teaching license in New [00:05:00] York state in 1970 because her wheelchair was a quote unquote fire hazard. Katie Marinello: Jesus. Claire Fisher: She then became a successful activist and eventually served in Bill Clinton's Department of Education. It's a happy ending for her, but it goes to show that in the 70s, this perception was very negative. Claire Fisher: Specific to the year that this came out, in July 1978 was the first transit protest. In Denver, Colorado, 19 wheelchair users blocked buses with their wheelchairs, chanting We Will Ride to demonstrate the inaccessibility of public transportation. Their protests actually led to the founding of Americans with Disabilities for Accessible Public Transportation, or ADAPT, Claire Fisher: which was founded in 1983 and their advocacy is credited with a lot of what got written into the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1991. Claire Fisher: So at this time, you know, the plot involves Paul being injured When he's in college, pre Claire Fisher: veterinary program. At the time colleges did not legally have to accommodate any type of [00:06:00] disability. It was Katie Marinello: I was thinking about that. Cause they don't really mention that. He just like chooses to take some time off, which I think is super understandable when you've had like a life changing injury like that. But yeah, they never really mentioned that, but I did think of that. There was no law saying they had to accommodate. Claire Fisher: not. It would have been entirely at their own discretion. Sandy Greenberg, who is kind of in Carrie Fisher's broader social circle, cause his college roommate and good friend Art Garfunkel was in a band with Paul Simon who Katie Marinello: Ah, yes. Claire Fisher: I don't know if they ever met, but like. Katie Marinello: Kevin Bacon right there. Claire Fisher: six degrees of separation. Sandy Greenberg is now a very big name in the world of accessible tech for vision impairments and blindness and has funded a lot of research into the causes of blindness. Famously went blind as a sophomore at Columbia university and the advice he was given was, oh, well, you'll have to drop out and go to a vocational program where you can learn to cane chairs. Claire Fisher: There's no chance you can finish at Columbia. [00:07:00] And Columbia, since they didn't have to accommodate him, they didn't see why they should. And he only finished his education because Art Garfunkel thought that was bullshit and read him the textbooks out loud and convinced their friends who owned typewriters to let him dictate his papers and got, tape recorders to record the lectures for him. Claire Fisher: An all volunteer, entirely amateur accessibility plan formed only by his friends, right, is what got him through Columbia. And then he went on to graduate from Harvard Law and invent some of the earliest text to speech algorithms and become a multimillionaire and actually pay for the studio time at which they recorded The Sounds of Silence. Claire Fisher: goes to show that at the time, only if people chose to be kind could disabled people have. [00:08:00] A life, really, right? Katie Marinello: Can I make a quick side note? Last night when I was doing the people who aren't Carrie Fisher research, I I had texted you that I was going to do it. And then I put on this temporary tattoo that you have to keep on for an hour. And so suddenly I found myself with only one hand Katie Marinello: so I enabled my computer's voice to text. I didn't even make the connection at the time. But since you said that Claire Fisher: you were using accessible tech that, was invented to help people with disabilities, but now makes the world easier for people who are Claire Fisher: multitasking. Katie Marinello: Yeah, exactly. Siri, right? Alexa, all of that stuff. Claire Fisher: Go Google the curb cut effect, people. It's really important. Katie Marinello: So before we get too far into the analysis of the movie obviously you are my sister, I have known you a very long time, this movie obviously resonated with me as your sister. And I know that you have some personal experience with this. So if you [00:09:00] want to talk about back injuries during college we'll talk about it as much or as little as you want to. Claire Fisher: Like Paul, John Ritter's character in this movie, I had a spinal injury when I was 19 in the middle of college, albeit not one that required me to start using a wheelchair on a permanent basis. However, I recognized a lot of the reactions that Paul's friends and family have the well meaning babying, the unwarranted pity Marnie's father asks him, oh, can they give you any hope? Claire Fisher: And I Claire Fisher: hate that question because what, is there ever going to be hope that one day I'll wake up and not be disabled? No. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Right. And Paul sort of awkwardly has to say, well, there's always hope. That's all you can say as a Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: ask you that, right? And you know, the day that the doctor told me my nerve damage was permanent, I was distraught. Claire Fisher: Just as Paul is initially quite angry and upset in this movie. That's a very normal human reaction that I Katie Marinello: Yeah, oh absolutely. [00:10:00] Yeah. Claire Fisher: Ultimately. When you become disabled, and a person can become disabled at any age and without any warning, as I learned, Claire Fisher: Unless you're ready to, like, kill yourself, you just have to learn to live with it, Claire Fisher: you do have to learn to do things differently. And there will be things you just can't do. When I was watching, there's a scene in this movie where John Ritter crawls across a river because he can't get his wheelchair across it. I mean, I remember a day I couldn't run across the street quickly enough to move mom's car. Claire Fisher: Mom was moving you into a new apartment and the car was sort of parked in a sketchy place. I needed to move the car, but I couldn't run across the street. I could only limp across the street, and so the police got there before I Katie Marinello: hmm. Oh Claire Fisher: got a ticket, right? You know, there are things that you will not be able to do, or at least not do as fast or as well as someone who doesn't have a spinal injury. Claire Fisher: And those things Claire Fisher: never leave your mind. The things you won't do. Before I was injured, I was a volunteer. Emergency medical technician. I was a swing dancer. [00:11:00] I used to climb trees. I used to roughhouse with kids. I was babysitting. I used to carry boxes of sheet music up and down the million dollar staircase at Boston College because I was a music librarian. I will probably never again be able to lift anything that is heavier than 35 pounds. I did lose my EMT license. I dance, but I don't flip anymore and I never will again. Claire Fisher: And I know that this movie makes a really big deal of sex after disability. And I think in a somewhat dated way, which we can talk about in a minute. Claire Fisher: I'll spare the audience details, but my injury did affect my relationship. My husband and I had only been dating for three months when I had my spinal injury. So my physical challenges did affect the entire dynamic of our relationship. For us, it's normal, but for other people it continues to be weird. Claire Fisher: Bryan gets comments from strangers on how great a guy he is. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: Like when they see him help me walk across uneven ground when he gets me to medical appointments. I mean, [00:12:00] yesterday morning we had to be somewhere at 545 in the morning and it snowed and we made it. And they were like, Oh, your husband came? No, this is a random stranger. Thank you. Right? Katie Marinello: you weren't allowed to leave without somebody to drive you home, Claire Fisher: Exactly. So Katie Marinello: What, they think Claire Fisher: Right. Exactly. Katie Marinello: send you Claire Fisher: Before we were married, I had signed paperwork that would let him be with me in the recovery room after operations. And there was a certain amount of your boyfriends here, Claire Fisher: as if people don't have boyfriends if they have spinal injuries. Claire Fisher: like, like, it was normal that my parents were there, but why did I have a boyfriend, Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: The thing is, he is a great guy, but the comments that we get sometimes sort of you can see that other people are seeing us not as partners, but as caregiver and patient, Claire Fisher: right? And let me say, for the record, being disabled doesn't mean that you don't have Claire Fisher: a relationship with an equal partner, right? Even though he, there's an element of him having to take care of me. We are still partners. [00:13:00] And I think that a huge part of the third act of this movie is that people, including Paul, don't believe that Paul will ever have a normal relationship. That's Katie Marinello: Marnie does not have that. Marnie doesn't have that delusion. Claire Fisher: is correct in Claire Fisher: saying that you, you still have a life. You still have things to offer in a relationship, Claire Fisher: that's why from a personal level, this movie was, it was difficult to watch because it was very familiar. Some of the conversations that I saw him have. Katie Marinello: So let's get into it a little bit. I'll just briefly talk about actors who aren't Carrie Fisher there aren't many because it's a pretty small cast. John Ritter, we talked about last week. Best known for Three's Company, playing Jack Tripper, who is a chef who pretended to be gay in order to share an apartment with two attractive ladies. Katie Marinello: We did not say that last week, and I just feel like I need to remind people that that is the plot of Three's Company, and it was on for like eight years. And then he famously died during his comeback series, Eight Simple Rules. But interesting notes that I found for this production, so his parents were actually both in show [00:14:00] business. Katie Marinello: His dad was a legendary country singer and actor, Tex Ritter, and his mother was an actress, her name was Dorothy Fay, and his older brother, Tom, actually has cerebral palsy. So I looked it up. It seems now he is in a wheelchair. But there are pictures of him walking red carpets with John Ritter. Katie Marinello: So I don't believe that he was in a wheelchair at the time that this movie was made, but still it would have given John some. Context, right, for, physical disabilities. Buddy Ebsen best known as Jed Clampett in the Beverly Hillbillies. Well, listen to a story about a man named Jed. Claire Fisher: poor mountaineer barely kept his family fed. Katie Marinello: So, but he took kind of a circuitous route to get there. He was actually a dancer in the late twenties on Broadway. And then [00:15:00] this touched home for me because he formed a vaudeville act with his sister. And then they, they also took that to Broadway and then They both actually received MGM contracts, but then she retired and Louis B. Katie Marinello: Mayer offered him an exclusive contract in 1938. But he turned it down and because nobody has ever told a story that's positive about Louis B. Mayer he obviously threatened that he would never get a job in Hollywood again, but he was offered the role of, do you know? Claire Fisher: the tin man. Katie Marinello: Originally the scarecrow in The Wizard of Oz, and then he switched with Ray Bulger. Claire Fisher: the guy who was gonna play the tin man had a bad reaction to the makeup, right? Katie Marinello: No. He switched with Ray Bolger, who was cast as the Tin Man. Then he became ill from the aluminum makeup. And he was replaced by Jack Haley. So he was not in The Wizard of Oz. So, probably he thought that, that was it, right? Katie Marinello: He wasn't in this, massive movie. , he went Back to the stage. And he was only in like a couple of movies between [00:16:00] then and Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier which was a movie that he was cast in. And then in 1962, so he was 54 when he started the Beverly Hillbillies. I think it's a really nice story of kind of late blooming or like thinking that your life is over and getting another chance. Katie Marinello: Right. And then he was also Barnaby Jones. Which was in 1973. Claire Fisher: Yeah, I think working in stage is pretty respectable, though. I don't Katie Marinello: Oh, absolutely! You're right, you're right, you're right. But you know what I mean, like, it's a, it's an interesting comeback story. And this movie then came out five years after Barnaby Jones had ended. Ed Nelson, who plays Marnie's father, Mr. Clarkson he's best known as Dr. Michael Rossi in the television series Peyton Place. Katie Marinello: Apparently he went to college, according to IMDb, think he's going to be a lawyer, but then he quote, caught the acting bug. He left college after two years. He went to the New York City School of Radio and Television. He appeared in episodes of many TV programs and more than [00:17:00] 50 movies and hundreds of state's protections. Katie Marinello: And he was also a host on the morning talk show, the Ed Nelson Show. And another beautiful story of late blooming. He went back to school in 1999 and finished his bachelor's degree at the age of 71. And then Carmen Zapata. Who plays Connie, the housekeeper, she is often referred to as quote, the first lady of Hispanic theater. Katie Marinello: She's actually best known for starring as the town mayor for nine seasons on the PBS bilingual television show Villa Aguerre, which started in 1973. So she started in movies, wasn't really getting the parts that she wanted for stereotypical reasons, ended up actually pulling out of that for a while and being standup comedian for several years. Katie Marinello: And she actually changed her name to Marge Cameron to encourage non discriminatory employment. But in 1973, she co founded the Bilingual Foundation of the Arts. Dedicated to bringing Hispanic experience and culture to [00:18:00] the Southern California community. And she co founded the Screen Actors Guild Ethnic Minority Committee as well. Katie Marinello: So she ended up doing a lot of for Hispanic actors. And I think that this part is actually, even though it's a Hispanic housekeeper, I thought it was a really interesting take on that, on that character. I don't feel like she's. Pigeonholed the same way that she might've been in other productions. Katie Marinello: So so yeah, those are kind of the main players. Let's get into it a little bit. Claire Fisher: Alright. So Paul Claire Fisher: is a polo player in college. Katie Marinello: polo player, right? An underdog of the polo players. Claire Fisher: He's on the UC Davis polo team. And he's competing in a tournament against Yale, Harvard, and Cornell. And in the last game against Yale, he falls off his horse and initially thinks he's okay. Katie Marinello: Gets back on the horse, which they tell you to do. Claire Fisher: Gets back on his horse [00:19:00] wins the game, gets to the airport, gets on the airplane, passes out on the airplane. Claire Fisher: And this is told in flashback where present day his whole team plus his parents are in the hospital waiting room while his grandfather, a surgeon, Doc, is in with the surgical team. And it turns out that he had a compression fracture of the second lumbar vertebrae with subsequent hemorrhaging. Claire Fisher: So, in other words, he broke his back falling off the horse, but it was a mild enough fracture that he initially didn't notice it. And then there was internal bleeding, and he's now permanently paralyzed from the waist down. Katie Marinello: And very interesting that these stories of disability or mixed ability relationships often have the implication of the sexual nature of the injury, like I remember, and this is ridiculous, but . When Glee was on, so 2009 ish, the guy who was in the wheelchair, he talked about we weren't sure I was going to be able to have sex and even that was like kind of.[00:20:00] Katie Marinello: surprising that they would be that blunt about it. But he just asked, he straight up asked his grandfather, well, what about sex? And I was like, Oh, this was the Sunday night family movie. Claire Fisher: But it was the issue movie, right? Katie Marinello: Right. Right. Claire Fisher: It's a very interesting conversation, and maybe we'll end up cutting it in, oh God, oh God, I'm only 21 and I'm a helpless cripple. Disabled, but not helpless. No Claire Fisher: Which is interesting, because the word disabled had only come into common use within the past ten years when this movie was made. Claire Fisher: you can tell that they're being very careful and specific to have the older character. The medical doctor be the one who says, no, you're not helpless. You can go back to school. You can learn to do your chores. You can have a normal life. And then when he says, con you. Your life as you've lived it. Let's [00:21:00] change violently. Daily chores will be difficult. Difficult, but eventually you'll learn. Go back to vet school. Because you're young. You're alive. You can see. Hear. Laugh. Love. God. Say it. What about sex? I don't know, Paul. How come you know I can go to the bathroom, but you don't know if I can have sex? I don't know yet. In your lingo, all, uh, different tracks for different acts. Claire Fisher: which is such a seventies way to put it. But in other words, we're going to have to wait and see. That's not good enough for his college [00:22:00] girlfriend. She dumps him. Katie Marinello: Immediately, yeah. Claire Fisher: She can't handle this news. I did think it's interesting though, they don't make it that everybody is like that. Claire Fisher: Cause his other friends, his friends from the Katie Marinello: Stick by him. Claire Fisher: stand by him, they visit him. Um, The Olympics together in his bed, right? Once he's home. And they even come out to visit him on the ranch. Yeah, I did appreciate that they kind of made a reappearance because, you know, once he left. And went to his grandfather's ranch. It could have easily been that we just don't see those actors again, right? Katie Marinello: But they do, they all show up for him, so I do appreciate that. Claire Fisher: Right. And, I mean, the way they show up later, I was like, sort of cringing, but also awing, Katie Marinello: Yeah Claire Fisher: up, they show up with their own wheelchairs and play a game of polo in the yard, wheelchair polo. Now, the modern disability rights movement discourages use of aids by people who don't need them, but, I mean, I think that that was intended to be sweet. Katie Marinello: I think it's a, Very like situational. Like, I think we know [00:23:00] people who would think that was hilarious. Right. And we know people who would not find that funny. So, and I'm not saying necessarily just wheelchair users, like any kind of assistant device. Some people would be all for it. Katie Marinello: And some people would. So like knowing him and his sense of humor, I think his friends kind of read the room on that one. Claire Fisher: yeah. He Decides he needs a change of scenery. He, he asks his mom, do you think grandpa would let me come stay on the ranch? And he goes. Katie Marinello: Side note. I love that he calls his, his grandpa doc. Okay. Claire Fisher: It's Katie Marinello: Because we called our grandmother by her first name sometimes, because we worked with her, right? But then, there's moments where he switches to grandpa and you can, tell the emotional difference there. So, just a side note that I found interesting. Claire Fisher: Good side note. On this ranch is a housekeeper, Connie Consuela Connie. And she says she never babies men Katie Marinello: If you baby a man, he becomes a baby. Claire Fisher: right. And she's not gonna baby Paul. Katie Marinello: As her cousin the Philosopher says. I love that. [00:24:00] As my cousin the Philosopher says. Claire Fisher: She's on Paul from the beginning. She's like, why don't you use the wheelchair? Why are you forcing yourself to crawl? And he says, no, the wheelchair is a prison. She's actually shown, hiding the fact that she's crying when she sees him knocking over his breakfast onto himself. Claire Fisher: She actually cares about him and she wants him to toughen up and learn to use the mobility device and learn to have his life again, and they actually have a very telling repeated interaction where he says, don't push my wheelchair and she says, I'm not pushing, I'm standing behind you. Katie Marinello: Yeah, I'm not pushing. I'm just standing behind you. Yeah, I like that. Claire Fisher: It goes to show she's trying to educate herself because, of course, you do never touch a wheelchair without [00:25:00] the permission of the wheelchair user, Katie Marinello: And oh my goodness, does that happen more than like you would Katie Marinello: imagine people think, oh, I'll just start pushing this Katie Marinello: no, ask people. Wheelchair is an extension of a disabled person's You don't touch it. Claire Fisher: Since you and I went through family vacations as sisters pushing our grandmother and her sister in their wheelchairs, we learned the etiquette a lot younger than some folks do. Katie Marinello: Right. And of course, neither grandmother nor aunt Margaret were like always in a wheelchair, so it wasn't quite the same level of like autonomy, I guess. Cause they weren't, they weren't going to be able to push it themselves. Claire Fisher: Well, I mean, many wheelchair users are not in the wheelchair 24 7, 365, right? That doesn't mean it wasn't a part Katie Marinello: right. But neither of them owned one is what I was kind of saying. Claire Fisher: I just remember my first day as a hospital volunteer when I was 14 years old. They were training us on wheelchair etiquette. And I was kind of like, I got this. I'd like how you get a wheelchair on and off an elevator safely. Claire Fisher: And I was like, I got this. Katie Marinello: What is the rule on like, Running really fast and then letting them go [00:26:00] down the paths of Muir Woods in California. Claire Fisher: I was not running really fast. Katie Marinello: I was! Claire Fisher: I merely forgot to put the brakes on at the top of the hill. Katie Marinello: No! We used to do it on Claire Fisher: But the Muir Woods incident was an accident. Okay? Grandmother said, Claire, go read me the sign, and I forgot to put the brakes Yes. Claire Fisher: she rolled backwards down a hill, but all of the tourists successfully jumped out of the way, and no one was injured. We retrieved Grandmother as soon as possible. Anyway, Paul is having some trouble getting to a point of accepting his fate. And everybody is in his corner, but they're giving him some , tough love. Like grandpa says, you were a competitive, you beat Yale in that polo thing. Like, you know, you need to beat yourself. Don't be dead set on rotting away here. Claire Fisher: Right. So his grandpa is making him work out with barbells to , strengthen his pecs so he can propel the [00:27:00] wheelchair with his arms and his, his back. . And he gets upset and throws a dumbbell out the window. And it spooks a horse. So Marnie really bawls him out, Katie Marinello: well, so we see her before this, right? We see her kind of interacting with her father and her fiance, boyfriend thingy who is like, why don't we just go get married right now? And she's like, yeah, Claire Fisher: she says, I want some time to figure out if this is more than just sex. So, Katie Marinello: that's true. Cause he says like, Oh, let's get married now. Let's go into the hayloft. She's like, we've agreed that I would finish school, which we're seeing that theme again. Right. I want to finish school first and. Yeah, is it just physical? Claire Fisher: So, but this is Paul's Katie Marinello: is the first time we've seen them to interact. Katie Marinello: Yes. And she flips out. And one of the things that she says is you can't even get off your lazy ass and come down here and help me chase after the horse. [00:28:00] Claire Fisher: at this point she doesn't realize Katie Marinello: She doesn't realize who he is. Yeah. And so she flips out and then later she's having lunch with her father and Fiancee and her father notably says, that is how I raised you, right? Katie Marinello: Not to take any guff from anyone. And then she finds out who it was and she feels awful. But I just want to say, it's interesting to me that her father says, I raised you not to take any guff because later in the movie, it's that whole stereotype of, I raised the strong, independent woman, but now she's being strong and independent towards me. Claire Fisher: Yeah. How dare she? Right. Katie Marinello: How dare she? Yeah. Claire Fisher: But I did think it's interesting. Paul smiles. The biggest you've seen him smile when she's [00:29:00] yelling at him. Because I think. Katie Marinello: she's treating him as just a person, right? Claire Fisher: And you know, honestly, that does count for a lot. If you have, I mean I think if you want to tell the story of the time you made the, the head of the Wildlife Conservation Society apologize to us for the terrible time we had at the Prospect Park Katie Marinello: That was so rough. Oh my god, do you want me to tell? Okay, so Claire had just had back surgery and then right after that she was in a car accident Katie Marinello: and then we were going to the Prospect Park Zoo in New York City, in Brooklyn. She requested a wheelchair at the front as one does. And the guy who brought it out was like, Oh, you're just being lazy. You don't really need this. Which was so, it was so random and just like there was no interaction prior to this. Katie Marinello: He just saw you and was like, Oh, you're being Claire Fisher: Yeah. He saw me and thought I didn't look disabled enough. And that is far from the only time that has happened. Katie Marinello: No, of course it's an invisible disability. Yours in particular, because you do not have a wheelchair and you don't walk with a cane or whatever, Claire Fisher: And the [00:30:00] scars are Katie Marinello: to be, right. Tends to be seen as an invisible disability. Which is. Pure nonsense. Claire Fisher: My point is that then, when I am not in a wheelchair, I don't look disabled enough. And then Claire Fisher: as soon as I was in the wheelchair, the whole rest of the day, everywhere we went, I got stared at. Katie Marinello: Right. Yeah. Claire Fisher: we were ushered to the front of the line which I understand they want the wheelchair to go first, so that other people aren't tripping, but I very much was getting these mixed reactions from people either because I was in a chair or because I didn't look sick enough to be in a chair. that day kind of stands out in my memory as a day, I was not treated like a person. Claire Fisher: I was treated like a problem. Right. And then you got the head of the wildlife conservation society to Katie Marinello: Oh, I wrote a very nasty Well, not nasty, but a very strongly worded Email to the, Claire Fisher: Wildlife Conservation Society, which runs the Prospect Park Zoo, the Central Park Zoo, the Bronx Zoo, the New York Aquarium. Claire Fisher: This guy's Katie Marinello: Island Zoo, I think, Claire Fisher: guy's kind of a big deal, and he personally [00:31:00] apologized. Claire Fisher: Back to this movie, Paul is happy that Marnie is treating him like anyone else, and then when she comes back to apologize, He doesn't has no interest, yeah. Claire Fisher: Because he doesn't want her sympathy. She actually sneaks in with the window repairman to get to see him again. Katie Marinello: Yeah, she puts on the window repair uniform. Claire Fisher: And he throws her out, and she complains to the boyfriend, David, like he thinks being in a wheelchair just gives him an excuse. And David calls her a bleeding heart. Claire Fisher: Right, for wanting to still treat Paul like a human being. Which is what she specifically says, he's still a human being, and no one's gonna put him down. Claire Fisher: Cause they talk about how horses, if they can't use their legs anymore. Katie Marinello: They would put them down. Right, Claire Fisher: she says no, no one's gonna put this guy down. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: So that's the start of that relationship. But that's not the only focus of this movie. And I Claire Fisher: find this Katie Marinello: Not, by a long stretch. Yeah. So the, the scene that I referenced in my recap, which is . His grandfather gets him a van that is accessible, so he [00:32:00] can get in and out in the wheelchair, but it's not a van that is accessible for him to drive. It's just one that he can get his wheelchair in and get into the passenger seat. Claire Fisher: They spent a lot of time showing you how the hydraulic lift worked. So I looked this up, they had those had been custom built only until 1973. The first commercially available wheelchair accessible vans would have been 1973. Within the past five years. So this is probably one of those scenes that they wrote in specifically so that the audience watching the ABC Sunday Night Movie would Claire Fisher: realize, oh, we have this technology Katie Marinello: We have this technology. Yes. So Doc is a country doctor, right? And he's the only doctor around for miles and miles. And so he has to go out on this call in the pouring rain and Paul, decides he wants to go with them. Katie Marinello: This is a genuinely scary scene. Like genuinely, I was like breathless watching it. So. It's raining. So first of all, the sound of rain on a car pounding rain has always kind of [00:33:00] bothered me. Right. So he's Claire Fisher: got flooded out Katie Marinello: cause we once got stuck in a flood in advance. , so there's a down tree so they can't get the van through. Katie Marinello: So the doc says, I'm just going to walk up the hill if I'm not back in 20 minutes or whatever, you know, something's gone wrong. And so then Paul is just in this van with the pounding rain. So he's like. Cool. I'm going to take a nap. Understandable. And when he wakes up, his grandpa's not back. Katie Marinello: And he sees him lying in the road, or he sees his rain jacket. And that's when I saw the switch between doc and grandpa, he climbs out and he says, doc, doc, grandpa. And I just thought that was really interesting. Claire Fisher: so he tries to roll his wheelchair towards it, but the water's rushing across the road and he falls out of the wheelchair and he army crawls on his stomach and he gets to grandpa, but Katie Marinello: He can't get the thing off Claire Fisher: he can't get a branch off of him. The closest house is half a mile straight uphill. He's never going to army Katie Marinello: He's like, well, that does that. Claire Fisher: So he [00:34:00] drags himself back to the van and finds a branch on the way, drags himself onto the hydraulic lift. Gets himself into the driver's seat and uses the branch to operate the pedals to drive and get help. Katie Marinello: And it's really scary. He is going kind of strict cause he can't really control how hard he's pressing. Right. So he's really speeding again in pouring rain, , Claire Fisher: on Katie Marinello: flash flooding country roads, and just like leaning on the horn the whole time. Claire Fisher: and he crashes. Claire Fisher: He actually crashes but Marnie hears the the horn and comes out to get him and she says enough dear God enough. Claire Fisher: You know, nowadays there are adaptations that allow wheelchair users to drive Katie Marinello: Right, of Claire Fisher: They amount to a stick that attaches to the pedals. But a much fancier stick and a Katie Marinello: Yeah, one you have a little more control over, yeah. Claire Fisher: And also, a friend of mine who, who demonstrated this to me, who is a wheelchair user, he. Rolls the wheelchair up next to the driver's seat, puts himself into the driver's seat, [00:35:00] then folds up his own wheelchair and chucks it in the back, which he can do because his wheelchair is an aluminum alloy. Claire Fisher: Wheelchairs used to be solid steel, Katie Marinello: right, Claire Fisher: So like, Claire Fisher: in the era, in the era that Paul is struggling to do this, the reason there weren't adaptations for wheelchair users to drive a car is because they didn't think wheelchair users could get into a car without assistance. This is a situation where, Paul is helpless, not because he lacks anything, but because the technology is lacking to Claire Fisher: support him, and he has to find a way around it, Katie Marinello: weird, like, unique situation, right? Claire Fisher: But, I mean, it could have been any situation. He, it could have been his grandpa had appendicitis, and they had to get to the Claire Fisher: hospital. It could have been any reason. And I think the point is that, He's trapped until he finds his own way, and Katie Marinello: interesting thing about the rest, for the rest of the movie, his grandfather is a little bit disabled because he breaks his leg, right? So like [00:36:00] he's kind of laid up in bed and like this is very annoying, you know, not, not as like mean about it, but definitely like, CONNIE!!! Claire Fisher: Yeah. And she even, when she's cooking him, his breakfast, she breaks the yolks in his eggs because he's yelling so Katie Marinello: Right, she's annoyed, yeah. Claire Fisher: I don't baby anybody, right? Katie Marinello: Right, right, so it's an interesting, you know, he's the one saying, well, you can do anything, you know, or you can overcome this, and then he's, and it's not movie magic where he's fine, and the next scene, he remains in a cast for the rest of the movie. Claire Fisher: So, I did think it was funny though. The next morning, Connie is answering the phone. Doc Stalling's clinic and driving school. And, because, And, by the way, I also thought, watching this, of the, On my wedding day, when we had told the limo company a thousand times we needed a wheelchair compatible van, because one of my groomsmen is a wheelchair user, they showed up without a wheelchair compatible van, and on my wedding day, the only way for us to get the wedding, on the [00:37:00] road, was literally that the best man had to carry the groomsman. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: when that accessible tech If tech is not available, well then, tough titties for you, unless you happen to have a best man who can bench press your groomsmen. I was so furious at that company, but we've let it go, Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: still, I mean, it goes to show, The social model of disability, which had only just been invented in the 70s, is that disability is not in your body. Claire Fisher: Disability is in the lack of support around you, this is that, he had all the smarts he needed to save the day, but they didn't have a drivable car for him, Katie Marinello: and God bless him, he did save the Claire Fisher: Yeah, he's still found a way. And, I Katie Marinello: mm hmm, Claire Fisher: people are really good at finding their own solutions. Katie Marinello: right, that is true. Claire Fisher: society and medical fields fail us a lot. Claire Fisher: So anyway Paul's moment of heroism kind of thaws the relationship between him and Marnie and it's time for a romantic montage.[00:38:00] Katie Marinello: We need a montage! Montage! It's very weird. I was like, okay, alright. You are yadda yadda yadda ing over a couple of things here. Because, not only, yes, they're taking care of horses together. He, gets himself into the horse carriage at some point. The, the harness thingy. picnic, I was like, that escalated quickly, because you're having romantic picnics with this guy, you are engaged. Claire Fisher: So yeah, David, the fiancé, is watching them, jealous. Gee, I wonder where this is going. By the way, the music in the background is the titular Leave Yesterday Katie Marinello: Leave yesterday Claire Fisher: the Carpenters, which was written for this movie. Katie Marinello: Cool. Yeah, I wondered which one was first, yeah. Claire Fisher: and of course he meets Marnie's father, who compliments his spunk. Claire Fisher: For those of you who aren't aware of the phrase inspiration porn, a lot of people tell Disabled people, how inspirational they are and how cool they are. And one that someone said to me was, I'm so happy you haven't let it make you bitter. And I [00:39:00] was like, well, first of all, for all, you know, this is me bitter. And second of all if people needed an excuse to be bitter, the world would be a very different place. And third of all, if everybody who had an excuse got bitter, the world would be a very different place, Katie Marinello: right. Yeah. His dad is just a walking microaggression. Right. Which I guess probably wasn't a term that anyone would have used back then, but he uses all the little buzzwords that would kind of trigger the Oh, this guy doesn't really see me as a person. Right. The spunk at first. And then later in the movie, he's like, Oh, you know, I got this. Katie Marinello: Belt made by like one of the kids downtown, like a disabled native guy or something. It's like, Oh, again, like trade school, right? Like, Oh, maybe they could help you down there. And he was pre vet and he hasn't lost his ability to do that. At least intellectually. So, Claire Fisher: Yeah. Well, I mean, I didn't lose the knowledge I had gained studying to be an emergency medical technician, but I did lose my license because I could [00:40:00] no longer lift a person in a stretcher. Katie Marinello: And to be fair, your, your spite comes from lots of things. Not just not not bitterness, but you do survive out of spite. Sometimes. Claire Fisher: Spite can be a powerful motivator. Claire Fisher: It's like faith. Claire Fisher: Anyway. Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: swimming together, and she wears a red bikini, predating the famous gold bikini by a solid five years. Katie Marinello: Oh, can we just talk about her smile in this movie? Because I kept writing down, Damn, that smile, You see it at the end of Star Wars, It's just, every time you see it, I'm just like, That woman had a smile that could light up, The movie projector, like, damn. Even if she weren't Debbie Reynolds Daughter, That smile would have made her movie star. Claire Fisher: It's quite a smile. Yeah, and she uses it a lot in this movie. Marni Katie Marinello: In a lot. She's a happy person, and she, Does not find anything like, yeah, she's very funny and she will not let him get out of swimming. Now [00:41:00] this, I wasn't super clear on whether she knew that he even could go swimming, or that he'd worked up to that because, I mean, obviously wheelchair users mostly usually can swim, but You have to strengthen the rest of your body and he may not have been there . Claire Fisher: They're going in a swimming pool that's like the size of. A living room. It's not like she's taking him in the ocean, And she also mentioned she has a Red Cross life guard Claire Fisher: certification. So, like, I think she's thinking even if it's his first time, she can get him through it, Katie Marinello: and she immediately is like, Hey, is it because you don't want me to see your legs? She clocks it immediately. Claire Fisher: Because she has some empathy for him Claire Fisher: as a person. She's not seeing him as a collection of his needs, but as a person who has concerns. And when she says, it doesn't matter to her. Right. She kind of teasingly starts trying to wrestle his sweatpants off to put his swim trunks Katie Marinello: Yes. Claire Fisher: They nearly kiss, they don't kiss. Claire Fisher: But she says, if you're not at the pool in ten minutes, I'll be back with scissors to cut the pants off. I love [00:42:00] this. Because he was shown having a really good sense of humor in the early scenes before he got hurt. And so, like, this is him regaining that sense of humor. Katie Marinello: She brings it back, Claire Fisher: playful relationship, that he's joking with Connie, that he's able to joke about the driving incident, right? Claire Fisher: They actually do kiss in the pool. Katie Marinello: hmm. Claire Fisher: dun, dun! David. Katie Marinello: like, dang, she is just always cheating. Claire Fisher: Alright, so let's talk about this, because we talked about in Come Back Little Sheba, Katie Marinello: Mm Claire Fisher: in the 40s, it was normal to date multiple people. Katie Marinello: Right. Claire Fisher: By the 70s, that was becoming less common. Katie Marinello: At least to be engaged to someone and be dating around. Right. Because certainly there was like free love and all that stuff happening in the seventies, but it's been established that they had the summer before decided they were going to get married so that I don't think she had a Claire Fisher: as she finished her, as soon as she finished school, they were gonna get married, right? But she's not wearing a ring. They don't have a date [00:43:00] set, I think what they're trying to say is that he expects something different from this relationship than she expects from it. Claire Fisher: Which could be understandable, they're supposed to be quite young, right, you know, Katie Marinello: Yeah. They're both, they're all undergrads, right? Like all three of them. Claire Fisher: Yeah. Katie Marinello: Or is he in law school? I can't remember the fiance. They say it when she introduces him to Paul, she says, this is David. And she says like second year, I think it was Harvard law and my dad's farmhand or whatever. Katie Marinello: And he's like, and your fella. Right? He kind of supplies that Claire Fisher: Yeah, but she does demur when he says, is he your fella? She Claire Fisher: says, well, I've known him a long time. He's practically one of the family. So it's possible that, you know, it's kind of a situation where the family expects that relationship. She thought Katie Marinello: I mean, she says it later. She says, When I told you I loved you last year, I thought I did. Katie Marinello: And, I, you know, maybe I just was hoping that I did or something like that. So, yes. However, she does not tell him [00:44:00] she's not going to marry him before she's kissing Paul in the pool. However you slice it. That's maybe not so nice to David. Claire Fisher: This comes to a head when she wins at a harness race, a picnic race. And David and Paul are both in the crowd cheering for her. So is her Katie Marinello: Both trying to get through, right? And it's harder for Paul to get through, obviously. Claire Fisher: David walks right up and kisses her while she's holding the trophy. And then Paul starts to leave, but Martini chases him and says, Oh, don't you have a kiss for the winner? He says, You didn't miss a Katie Marinello: And she goes to sit on his lap and she finds something he's made for her, a wire horse. And that leads to the whole condescending conversation between , her father and him with the, Oh, why don't you go down to the community center or whatever, and, learn to craft or Claire Fisher: So her father sees them kissing and immediately goes in and says, Oh, you know, maybe you should go to the rehabilitation center in town and learn handicrafts, Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: Greenberg was told, Claire Fisher: go learn to cane chairs. And Paul rushes off and Claire Fisher: [00:45:00] Marnie yells at her father. She says, you did that on purpose, but he's too much of a man to let you get to him. Claire Fisher: And her father says, well, you deliberately teased him into falling in love with you. And then he slaps her and says, don't let this cripple come between us. Katie Marinello: Yeah, that again, like, Wow, Katie Marinello: There's no indication prior to this, that this father who says he's, raised this spunky girl has ever slapped her in the face, right? Like there's not like a, a fear between them. We don't see a ton of their relationship, but we do see them interact several times throughout the movie. Katie Marinello: And there's never this overtone to it. So that slap is like. A slap in the face, if you will, to the audience as well as to her. Claire Fisher: We're looking at it with 20 20 eyes. In the 60s and 70s, to be occasionally slapped by a parent for misbehavior was not a shocking thing, right? Katie Marinello: but when you're 19, 20 years old, that's probably more Claire Fisher: They were pushing the limits a little. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: But then I think it's interesting that her reaction [00:46:00] is not to continue arguing with her father, but to go after Paul and to ask Paul why he didn't just tell her father to stick it. And she says she won't apologize for her father's behavior, which is correct. Claire Fisher: Don't apologize for someone else's microaggression, Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: but instead she tries to buck him up. She tries to say, that accident didn't make you any less. You're more of a man than any man I know. I'm in love with you. And he still, I wasn't sure if I could read this as he thinks she's sort of fetishizing him or if he just is still not really embracing himself, but he says, I keep waiting for the day the joke will be over and everything will be like it was, but every day the sun comes up and I keep wondering how I'll make it through the day or why I should even try. Claire Fisher: Congratulations, you just met the real Paul Stallings, full of self pity and self hate. Katie Marinello: I really liked this actually, because in a lot of movies about disability, I think he would have overcome it, become the more playful version of himself and [00:47:00] never go back into that self loathing and self pity and that is for anyone, any human who's been through anything, but certainly for the disabled community, there's going to be tough days, right? Katie Marinello: There's going to be days where you're like, gee, I really wish this hadn't happened to me. Claire Fisher: Absolutely. Katie Marinello: You could argue that her timing was perhaps not the best in that moment, because if he's like, just suffered this kind of like emotional blow, it might not be the time to tell him you're in love with him. Katie Marinello: I understand why she did. Claire Fisher: Another thing I like about this is, in some movies, she would respond by saying, Oh, don't be that way, but she doesn't. Claire Fisher: she invalidate his feelings at all. Claire Fisher: she says, but why are you rejecting me? I haven't even asked you to love me. Claire Fisher: So she's trying to say, let's just have an honest relationship. even if you feel that way about yourself, again, she consistently treats him like a person, whereas other Claire Fisher: people in the movie are not. Katie Marinello: You know, people say, oh, you can't love someone until you love yourself. [00:48:00] And then there's a whole kind of counter to that, that no, everybody deserves love. Whether you have the most self confidence or not, you shouldn't rely on a partner to give you that self confidence. Claire Fisher: because I was going to say there's two ways that this would be played as a cliche. One would be that he just gets over it and never goes back. Another would be that the love of a good woman pulls him out of it. Katie Marinello: Right. And neither of those is true Claire Fisher: here it's like, yes, okay, you've been through a trauma. He's had this horrible thing. Claire Fisher: He's still finding a way to cope. And she still wants, she wants a relationship with him as one human to Claire Fisher: another, As a Claire Fisher: as a, person, right? And this is when, though, it does veer off because he says, I can't even have sex, and she says, I don't believe that. And I'm like, okay, well, he would, Katie Marinello: Yeah. Yeah! Claire Fisher: Right, Katie Marinello: yeah, this, it does get a little strange here because then he goes and talks to his grandpa about it and his grandpa also doesn't really believe Claire Fisher: I've had people including [00:49:00] doctors not believe me when I said that certain Aspects of my body didn't function the way you might expect, and they've said, I don't believe that, and I've been like, well, this isn't a thing that you can fact check me on. Claire Fisher: I am telling you I have Katie Marinello: it's, this is my body Claire Fisher: Right? I'm telling you that this has happened. I'm telling you that I have pain, right? Katie Marinello: And nobody at any point says, which I wish but I can't imagine that this would have been a point of thought necessarily in the seventies, but that there are other ways to have sex, right? Like it's not, Claire Fisher: so this was the family Sunday night movie on ABC Katie Marinello: right. The fact that they mentioned sex at all is kind of Claire Fisher: So nobody's gonna bring up strap ons. Katie Marinello: Fair, fair. I was thinking like cunnilingus, but Claire Fisher: Okay, well nobody's going to mention conilingus, nobody's going to talk about is penetration important to you or not, nobody's going to bring that up, right? Claire Fisher: That wasn't something they were going to do on network television. Katie Marinello: Stimulating his prostate. Claire Fisher: In some people who have lower [00:50:00] body paralysis their nerves remap and they find pleasure in other types of stimulation on the upper body. That's probably not a conversation they wanted to have on the ABC Sunday Night Movie, right? Katie Marinello: appreciate that. They did not go into it the way they went into the hydraulic band. Claire Fisher: Right. And, and probably it's just not necessary. However let me just say, the medical interventions for male impotence already existed in the 70s, medical interventions for female sexual dysfunction very much were only invented in the 90s. So actually, at the time, a doctor, like his grandpa, should have been able to say, well, if you can't do X, have you considered Y? Claire Fisher: Or maybe we should consult Y. With, you know, a Katie Marinello: A urologist or Claire Fisher: There's at least some things they could have done, but you know It's a two hour made for tv movie. They probably didn't want to go into the medical details, Katie Marinello: his grandfather is, I mean, he's a surgeon, but he's a country doctor, right? So he might not have known every [00:51:00] intervention that was possible. Paul says, You said different tracks for different, what is it, and he says the gate's closed or something like Claire Fisher: tracks for different acts, but the road is closed for me, I guess it's the closest they could come to saying that he has tried this unpartnered. And is aware that he is impotent. Katie Marinello: His grandfather says that a lot of the time that's mental. Claire Fisher: Which, again, that's a dated medical take. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: It could be true. Certainly, Many people who have lower body paralysis Are not permanently sexually affected. But, Claire Fisher: sometimes they are. Katie Marinello: I don't think anyone in this movie ever mentions like it, this like just happened. , I think the whole thing happens over the course of a summer break. It's maybe two, three months since he's been paralyzed and nobody's like, Hey, well, A, it's okay if you never do B, it may be a mental thing. Katie Marinello: C it may just be your body healing. Right. Right. Like there's not a, none of those are really. Brought up. Claire Fisher: They resolve [00:52:00] this plot not by actually resolving the Katie Marinello: Sex Claire Fisher: Sex thing. Katie Marinello: I was wondering. Okay, ABC. All right, Walt Disney, how are you gonna get out of this one? Claire Fisher: They resolve it by focusing on what he can do. Not on what he's afraid he can't do, right? Katie Marinello: So throughout the entire movie, there's this horse that Marnie has that is expecting a foal Claire Fisher: and he mentions he's had internships with vets every summer break, he was pursuing this as a career. But what happens is, She's going to drive David back to the airport to go back to school. Katie Marinello: And that's when she tells him I thought I loved you Claire Fisher: and he says, you're in love with a wheelchair. And she says, no, I'm in love with Paul. Claire Fisher: And he says, he won't have me. And David says, no, he can't have you. At least he's honest. And so, probably a very good thing. Quiet ride to the airport after that Katie Marinello: can't believe she still drove him. And Claire Fisher: well, she had to get him out of there, right? Katie Marinello: she said to Paul, well, can't you stay until after the foal is born? And he's like, there's no way to [00:53:00] know that, which is true. Not wrong. Claire Fisher: so as she's leaving to take David to the airport her father says he's sorry for slapping her, but I'm not going to let you throw your life away on half a man. Claire Fisher: While she's driving David to the airport, no doubt in stony silence, disaster strikes because Marnie's father gets bitten by the horse, Miss Claire Fisher: Ruby, which means his hand is bleeding and she needs Claire Fisher: Assistance that will involve putting him inserting his hand into her vagina, but he's bleeding so he can't do that, Claire Fisher: he calls Paul because the veterinarian is out on another call and he can't get expert help and someone's got to do it, Claire Fisher: so Paul crawls into the stall, crawls through the hay. Mr. Clarkson talks him through what to do, and they bond over saving this horse in the foaling barn. Katie Marinello: And Marnie comes in halfway Claire Fisher: Yeah, Katie Marinello: And, watches it all happen, Claire Fisher: Marni comes in while they are pulling on a rope that they've tied to the Foss ankles and are like working together. Paul is using his upper body strength, Mr. [00:54:00] Clarkson's throwing his full weight behind it. And of course, this is how they. Claire Fisher: Come to an understanding Claire Fisher: that, Mr. Clarkson is forced to eat some crow here. Claire Fisher: Paul is not half a man, right? And, and he doesn't make a big speech or apologize or go full end of Guess Who's Coming with to Dinner or anything like that. It's just a moment where they work together, right? Katie Marinello: Yeah. Another thing that I liked, I know this podcast that we often listen to, Gayest Episode Ever, they will often say they prefer a character who is bigoted, who stays bigoted, right? Because it is more true to life. And if you're in a 1970s episode, right? They do a lot of very special episodes where there's like a gay character that shows up one time in these like seventies and eighties sitcoms. Katie Marinello: , if everybody's cool with it, that's not authentic to the time period. And so I, again, I like that he apologized for hitting her, doesn't apologize for what he said, and there's not really any firm resolution between him and Paul. Mm. Mm Claire Fisher: They don't wrap things up in a bow, but they do end on a [00:55:00] hopeful note, because Marnie thanks him for saving the horse, and then she says, You're going to have to save me from loving a man who hates himself. And he admits he doesn't really hate himself, but he's afraid of how to face the rest of his life like this. And she says, Well, we can work together. Sure, we'll have problems. And that's when he says, I don't know if I can deal with never dancing, and I want to dance with you. Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: So she, like, spins his wheelchair and sits on his lap while twirling her arms. And Claire Fisher: that's the end of the movie, right? Katie Marinello: Leave yesterday behind. Yeah. Claire Fisher: Darling, save the last dance for me. It's actually very sweet and it's not tied up with a bow. It's not love will fix everything that's wrong with your life. It's not Katie Marinello: Yeah, we don't even know if they'll end up together, right? We don't even know if they'll choose to be boyfriend and girlfriend. We just know that they're dancing. Claire Fisher: We don't know how he's going to deal with her father in the future. We don't know, it very much is just the story of their summer break. Katie Marinello: [00:56:00] Right. And we don't know if he's ever going to be able to have sex. It's just not Claire Fisher: Well, there's more than one way to have sex, Katie. Katie Marinello: You know what I Okay, sorry. We don't know for sure that he's going to be able to have penis and vagina sex. Okay, we definitely are going to have to use the explicit tag on this one. Claire Fisher: We don't know if he'll be able to have sexual intercourse. Let's use the medical term here. Katie Marinello: Sure. Claire Fisher: We do end at a point where he probably will go back to vet school. He may have a career. He is open to opening his heart and having another relationship, it's reached a point where his life's not over. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I'm glad you liked it, because I wasn't sure. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. And I was like, I hope that I'm not missing a bunch of microaggressions or dated references or things that would make it hard for you to watch. Claire Fisher: Well, there are things that are dated, but there's a lot of things that are still very, very real. I mean, there's a lot of ableism in the world. And I mean, there's a lot [00:57:00] of No, you can't have a wheelchair because you look too healthy, but there's also a lot of covert. I mean, when I got the standing desk that I'm actually recording this podcast at, when I got a standing desk at a job there was a lot of people walking up to me saying, like, what did you say to get a standing desk? Claire Fisher: I Claire Fisher: want one too. Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: There's a certain amount of perception that disabled people get some sort of special treatment, and Claire Fisher: so I'm going to use that too. We saw this during the pandemic where people tried to abuse HIPAA laws to be like, , you can't ask me why I'm not wearing a mask, Claire Fisher: There's people who assume that you've done something wrong if you're disabled. Claire Fisher: I once posted something about how my injury happened, and it was, I literally leaned forward one day and threw out my back. And I posted that somewhere, and someone said, well, were you overweight at the time? Katie Marinello: I did not know that. Katie Marinello: So we could go into a whole fat phobia discussion as well. Claire Fisher: I mean, but this has happened so many times, Claire Fisher: [00:58:00] we once had a neighbor die of complications of a C section, and when I told someone that, her response was, oh, well, she must not have followed the doctor's instructions. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: Because obviously no surgery has ever had a bad outcome without it being the patient's fault, right? Katie Marinello: Again, talking about COVID and every time somebody died of COVID, well, there must've been some preexisting Katie Marinello: condition. Right. And I'm like, right. Were they, were they overweight? Were they a smoker? Well, does it matter? Cause they didn't deserve to die from a preventable disease that if everybody would just wear a damn mask, we could, squash. Claire Fisher: I bring this up because I was happy that that wasn't, Something that people said to Paul Katie Marinello: Right. Why did you get back on the Claire Fisher: Right, Of course he was gonna get back on the horse! He's a polo he was in the middle of a game of polo, right? Yeah. And I Katie Marinello: He was winning! Claire Fisher: When I was an EMT, I had a lot of education on the chances that you could have fractured your spine and not know it until hours later. Claire Fisher: Because [00:59:00] since the seventies, our understanding of that has evolved. As you mentioned earlier, one time I had surgery and then very shortly after was rear ended in my car. And I knew enough to say to the responding ambulance, you need to backboard me because I cannot guarantee to you that I don't have a fracture right now. Claire Fisher: Telling first responders Just go ahead and strap me to the Claire Fisher: backboard. I know I'm not going to be able to convince you that I'm fine and I don't want to try to convince you that I'm fine and then have it be that I'm wrong, right? Katie Marinello: It can be a lethal mistake. Claire Fisher: absolutely, I mean, you could have what Paul had, if you had a compression fracture in your neck, and then you turn your head, you will cut the connection between your brain and your lungs and you will die. When I describe the plot of this movie, Bryan asked me if it was inspired by Christopher Reeve's accident. Claire Fisher: And I was like, Katie Marinello: Which happened after, right? Claire Fisher: wasn't in that accident until 17 years later. So Claire Fisher: no, but it goes to show this does happen. Katie Marinello: All the time. Claire Fisher: I think that what I'm When I hear from somebody, oh, were you overweight or [01:00:00] did you not Did you not follow the doctor's instructions? Did you ignore symptoms before you went to the doctor? Claire Fisher: I get a lot of these questions, believe you me. What I'm hearing is people don't want to believe that you can become disabled unexpectedly, Katie Marinello: Mm hmm. Claire Fisher: but you can. That is the number one way that people become disabled, actually. Claire Fisher: Um, Katie Marinello: said, you said this to me years ago, I think, or maybe I heard it somewhere else, but it's always stuck with me that we're all just one minute away from being in the disability rights movement, right? Because even just natural aging can, will, if you are blessed enough to live long enough, you're likely going to have some mobility issues, right? Katie Marinello: So like everybody eventually becomes part of it, but we all just want to pretend it's not Claire Fisher: Right. I leaned forward in the shower and herniated a disc in my spine and that did permanent nerve damage. I am now a person with a mobility disorder. A spinal issue for life. Claire Fisher: I was 19, right? Katie Marinello: And that's not even going into, like, mental health, which is a whole, you know, they say depression can be as, as [01:01:00] debilitating as being a quadriplegic in some cases. Uh, Claire Fisher: Anyone. It can happen at literally any point. I mean, you fell off a horse when you were what? Nine. Katie Marinello: and I got back on. Claire Fisher: mom screamed. Cause she thought for sure you had just broken your back and you hadn't, thank the Lord, Katie Marinello: No, and I got back on the horse and, that could have been a real big Claire Fisher: that could have been a bad idea. Katie Marinello: Yeah. And then I also just want to mention talking about disability, right? Well, first of all, I looked up the the crawl on the Capitol right after this movie, because I was like, huh, I saw a documentary on that. Katie Marinello: And I swear it was all in black and white. Yeah. That happened in 1990, Claire Fisher: it did. Katie Marinello: like, Oh dear Lord. That was, a full, 12 years after this. And the other thing is talking about disability and love and the fact that If you are in a relationship where both partners are on disability, it's like the last bastion of marriage inequality, right? Katie Marinello: Because they [01:02:00] find that they can't get married because then they will lose their benefits. Claire Fisher: and you, and you in some cases will lose your Medicaid if you marry someone who has benefits through an employer, Claire Fisher: because the Americans with Disabilities Act was written under the assumption that most disabled people will be single. Because disabled people in sexual relationships, ha, ha, ha, ha and you know that the person who caught the bouquet at my wedding is fully blind and people were like, Oh, she participated. Claire Fisher: It's like, she's a single woman. No, Katie Marinello: Who was in a long term relationship at the time. So oh my God. Claire Fisher: her boyfriend was not with her at the wedding, but we, had someone else be her partner so that I wouldn't smack her in the face with it. I thought that this was, even though some parts of it are dated, like nowadays, the demonstration of the hydraulic lift seems unrealistic. The idea that Katie Marinello: Maybe. But you know what? Not everybody has your groomsmen in their life. So not everybody's seen one work that [01:03:00] way. Granted, the technology has evolved, but the basics are there. So I don't think that's super dated. Claire Fisher: And certainly there are many things today that are inaccessible, and for no good reason. When I was looking for a wedding venue, I kept saying, we have elderly relatives, we have a groomsman who's a wheelchair user, the bride limps so we want the accessible tour of Claire Fisher: your facility. And we heard so many, oh, well, this is a historic home, Katie Marinello: Right? Claire Fisher: oh, well, he could come into the ground floor, but we don't have an elevator. We heard so many, and I mean, I'm not the only bride who limps. I'm not the only person whose grandmother has had double knee replacement. Katie Marinello: like everybody you're fairly young to have this particular kind of disability, everybody has a grandmother , so it's just mind blowing to me. Claire Fisher: Some of the venues were like, Oh, our minimum, guest number is 150 people. And I was like, in 150 people, you don't have anyone who has a mobility issue. Claire Fisher: That's actually not plausible. Katie Marinello: How have you not thought this through? Yeah, Claire Fisher: And so we [01:04:00] only booked to the venue that immediately was like, Oh, of course, let us show you how we would get people from the front door to the reception space. Claire Fisher: And the cocktail area without anyone needing to go up or down stairs. The venue we booked was the one that said, yes, okay, we understand. Katie Marinello: Even earlier today, I went to brunch and I was coming from the back parking lot and the closest entrance was up the ramp. Couldn't get the damn door open. I thought it was locked. And then I was told, well, you just have to push really hard. Cause it sticks. This is your accessible entrance. Claire Fisher: Well, you know, you can ram it with your wheelchair. All Katie Marinello: Well I can walk down the ramp and go around and take the stairs, but not everybody can. What, what are you doing? Claire Fisher: What they're doing is they're not thinking it through. Katie Marinello: They're checking the box, right? Like, well, we have it, we have a wheelchair ramp, so it's fine. Claire Fisher: So anyway, we're wandering away from the point of the movie, but Claire Fisher: I thought that the movie was a very realistic and nuanced take on it. Obviously a little old [01:05:00] fashioned because it's from the 70s, but these problems still exist. Katie Marinello: But way more nuanced and thoughtful than I would necessarily expect from a made for TV Sunday night movie by Walt Disney, you Claire Fisher: yeah. I didn't look up who wrote it, but I assume they did do some research to do this right. Katie Marinello: Yeah, for sure. There was definitely, I don't know if there were disabled consultants consultants. But they, like you said, they clearly did some research. Claire Fisher: The only entry under trivia for IMDB was that John Ritter and Buddy Ebsen, who play grandson and grandfather and are 40 years apart, died within two months of each other in 2003. Katie Marinello: I Buddy Ebsen of old age and John Ritter, of course, of an aortic dissection. Which is another example of the fact that literally bad things can happen for no reason and without warning because he felt fine until he didn't and then he died. Katie Marinello: And his brother who probably was expected to die first because he had cerebral palsy, [01:06:00] he's still alive. He does have an IMDb page, but his IMDb page is all him in documentaries about John Ritter. Katie Marinello: So you just never know. Claire Fisher: you never know, you never know. Shall we rate the Hutt Slayers? Katie Marinello: Yes. I love this character and it's really nice after the last couple where she's just been like, kind of not there, Claire Fisher: Oh Katie Marinello: like Claire Fisher: this is way Katie Marinello: not right, like Ringo and then like in Sheba, she's there, but she's. Mostly a product of everybody's delusions about her. She's really present in this film. Claire Fisher: Absolutely, I would say definitely a solid 4 out of 5 Hutt Slayers. Katie Marinello: Yeah. You know, I'm going to give her a five. Claire Fisher: She's present, and she's not the Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and she's not just the girlfriend. Yeah, okay, 5 is fair. Katie Marinello: She's bucking against her fiance, her father, society. I mean, she's, and just doing it in such a way. That's like, Claire Fisher: And she calls Paul out on his [01:07:00] nonsense and his Katie Marinello: yeah. She's not willing to take. Guff from anybody, nobody's putting her in a gold bikini. Claire Fisher: The red bikini. Katie Marinello: she put herself in that bikini. Claire Fisher: And, and towards the end, when her father tries to protect her, because , he thinks , the mare might die, Katie Marinello: Right, he even tries to kick her Katie Marinello: out of Claire Fisher: says, Claire Fisher: don't come in, you don't want to see this. And she says, I've been in foaling barns since I was ten. So, like, she Katie Marinello: Yeah, even that was, I found that very strange. But yeah, Claire Fisher: Well, if you think someone's animal might die, you Claire Fisher: sometimes send them out of the room. Katie Marinello: Yeah. Claire Fisher: But the horse didn't die, the horse lived! Katie Marinello: Giving her a five out of five. This is our first five out of five, I Claire Fisher: Alright, 5 out of 5 Hutt Slayers. Katie Marinello: Excellent. Claire Fisher: Alright, and speaking of the slaying of Hutts, what are we watching next week, Katie? Katie Marinello: The Star Wars Holiday Special? Claire Fisher: I'm sure a few Hutts go down in that one. Katie Marinello: I don't think so. But this might [01:08:00] be one of the, like, Five movies on this list that I've seen before. So the six Star Wars movies, Star Wars holiday special. And when Harry met Sally. Claire Fisher: Can that really be all of them? Katie Marinello: Possibly not. I haven't really looked Claire Fisher: alright, well, until we return with the famous Star Wars Holiday Special, Katie Marinello: Your favorite. Claire Fisher: just remember, in the immortal words of Carrie Fisher, If my life wasn't funny, it would just be true. Katie Marinello: And that's unacceptable. Thanks for listening to another episode of Carried Far, Far Away. This podcast is hosted, produced, edited, and re-edited obsessed over and loved by Katie Marinello and Claire Fisher. You can follow the show on Facebook and Instagram at carriedawaypod. You can email us awaycarriedpod@gmail.com. You can follow Claire @deadfictionalgirlfriends and Katie @katiedaway. All clips used in this podcast are done so under the protection of fair use. Have a wonderful week and may the force be with you. Katie Marinello: And now our space, [01:09:00] grandma wisdom of the week. Carrie Fisher: When you get older and you're a celebrity, everything just calms down. And you just feel good about yourself. And confident all the time. That's why people want to be celebrities. Okay, that's not true.