Jeniffer: Hello, and welcome back to the premise. I'm
Jennifer Thompson.
Chad: I'm Chad Thompson.
Jeniffer: Hello, Chad. Hello. I am super excited about today's
conversation.
Chad: Oh, yeah.
Jeniffer: Yeah. We're talking to Swan Huntley, who we
interviewed a couple seasons back, when we
talked about her book getting clean with Stevie Green.
And today we are going to talk about her
latest novel, I want you more, which is
fantastic. I cannot wait for all of you
to read it. Swan, thank you so much for coming
back to talk with us, and welcome to the
premise.
Swan Huntley: Jennifer Thompson. I'm delighted to be here.
Yay.
Jeniffer: So I'm going to read your bio for our listeners who
are not aware of how badass you are. Swan
Huntley's novels include I want you more, getting
clean with Stevie Green, the goddesses, and we could
be beautiful. She's also the writer illustrator of the
darkly humorous the bad mood book, and you're
grounded, an anti self help book to
calm you the fuck down. Swan earned
an MFA at Columbia University and has received
fellowships from McDowell and Yotto. She
lives in Los Angeles. Again,
Swan Huntley, thank you so much for being here. I am
so excited to talk about this latest book
to the premise.
Swan Huntley: Thank you, Jennifer. I'm delighted to be here.
Jeniffer: Back again. So let's start with
a short description. Tell our readers or listeners
and our readers what this book is about.
Swan Huntley: I want you more is about a
ghostwriter who goes to the home of a
celebrity chef to write her memoir. They fall
for each other. Things turn dangerous.
Jeniffer: That's the best description. The best, I guess, elevator pitch
ever. Things turn dangerous, and,
boy, do they. I guess it's
about losing yourself, isn't it?
Swan Huntley: It is very much about losing yourself, yeah.
Swan Huntley: I was thinking about this as
one huge, very
dramatized metaphor, for all the
bad relationships that I've been in. So taking the feelings
of those relationships and then
externalizing them to the highest degree, I think
what happens when you fall for somebody is that you kind of fall into
them. You sort of lose yourself. The lines
become blurred. And so, again, I'm
exploring that in a very big
way.
Jeniffer: And so zara Pine, our main
character, our heroine, if you will, she
does. She loses herself and kind of starts to
become this other woman who she's,
I don't want to give too much away, but she starts out, like,
really not into this job, this ghost writing job,
but falls pretty heavy pretty quickly.
bring us through this process for
you. I guess I have a couple different questions about it.
Like a. Let's start with this. Where did this
idea come from?
Swan Huntley: So, the
idea was sparked when I
was working as a ghostwriter, writing the memoirs of a real
housewife of New York City. And during this
process, she said to me, and I
quote in her voice, you come
into my manor October 21. And
I thought, I would rather sleep in a box.
And, thank you. That's a very good idea for
a novel. You know what would have happened if I had
gone? This woman's manner.
Jeniffer: Oh, wow. So you didn't go, you said, no, thank you.
Swan Huntley: It was the height of the pandemic, and she wanted me to go and
observe her do her photo shoot for the COVID of her book, which
I didn't really feel was necessary.
Jeniffer: Totally. Yeah. Very intrusive.
Wow, that is a brilliant idea for a book.
And it really is kind of a manor, isn't it, in
the East Hamptons, where she goes to stay with,
this. This celebrity chef.
Swan Huntley: Yeah, it's a sprawling estate, we can say.
And I spent a couple weeks in the Hamptons, and,
you know, I think with all of my work, I'm interested in the
seedy underbelly of beautiful things. I grew up in a very
beautiful place. I grew up in La Jolla, California, which
is kind of East Hampton E. And everything looks
really good, and you sort of. It's easy to
trick yourself into believing that that means that things
are good. But, you know, when I was in East Hampton,
walking through these neighborhoods, I thought, what is really happening
in these houses?
Jeniffer: Yeah. Is that how you live your life?
Like, everywhere you go, you're, like, trying to see behind the closed door, like, hm.
What's going on in there? What kind of stories can I manifest,
behind those doors?
Swan Huntley: Totally. And anything that seems too shiny, I don't trust,
like, people who are smiling all the time and say that they had
perfect childhoods. I'm like, alarms alarm
m. No, I do not buy this at
all.
Jeniffer: Same, same, we have a community here in
San Diego, and I'm not going to mention the community, because
I'm just not going to do it. But when I go there, I get these,
like, creepy weeby jeebie feelings. Like, these
lawns are too perfect. Like, there's no children
playing ball, there's no trash. And it kind of freaks me
out. It gives me this, like, I don't know,
danger feeling. I don't know what it is, but yeah,
yeah.
Swan Huntley: Yeah. It's, like, overly sterilized, overly perfect.
Doesn't seem to reflect the real human.
Jeniffer: Experience, the reality, exactly. And that's really well
put. It's not the real human experience.
So back to Zara Pine. I gotta ask
you about her name, because, a, it feels like
Zara is pining for things in this novel. Was that.
Swan Huntley: Well, yeah, that's intentional. So it's actually Zara
pines. And I did that because that's a full
sentence.
Jeniffer: Zara does pine. She does.
Swan Huntley: Yeah.
Jeniffer: So what a great name too. Where does the name
Zara come from?
Swan Huntley: My sister's name is Zara. And when I told her
I was naming the main character of my book Zara,
she said, dude, don't do that. Everyone's gonna
steal my name. And I was like, girl,
it's a store. Like, everybody knows about your
name now.
Jeniffer: I'm actually surprised it's not
totally. It's a great name. So your sister.
Okay, so Swan and Zara, what are the other fabulous
names in your family?
Swan Huntley: There are four of us. The order. In order, it
goes swan, Flannery, who's a
redhead? Nobody else is a redhead.
Jeniffer: That's crazy.
Swan Huntley: Yeah. And Fletcher is the
boy.
Jeniffer: Okay. Wow. Yeah. Your parents
like cool names. What are your parents
like? I want to know more.
Swan Huntley: Great question. my parents
really both have main character energy. They are not,
like, background character energy people.
They're both very,
eccentric, really. People who
are really living
in their own unique ways, not lemming
people. my dad is dead now, but I remember asking him, he
bought this bright pink phone case,
and I was like, dad, why is your phone case,
like, bright pink and purple? And he was like, so I could see it
better. You know, he was like,
that. Similar people. She's like, so I can see it
better. and my mom
is an incredibly
funny person. The things that come out
of her mouth are just so original. And she's also
a natural storyteller. She recently went on this
trip with some, british people to
Algeria. And her dispatches
from Algeria were so
character driven and hilarious. It was not
like, oh, look, I saw this monument. It was
like, everybody is
trying to excise the leader. Look at him
standing here on the side. It's just
very funny.
Jeniffer: Well, clearly you get that from your mother, because you are a born
storyteller, it seems to me.
Swan Huntley: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Yeah. My brother Fletcher is also a writer, I should say,
and is, also writing a memoir,
which I'm now doing too, which we can talk about later.
Jeniffer: But, yeah, there are two of us now. That would
be fascinating if you both came out with memoirs at
the same time. Dueling memoirs. Which one
is the most accurate?
Especially if they have different viewpoints on what happened
in your childhood. I think that could be a really interesting
study. Frankly.
Swan Huntley: I would do it.
Jeniffer: Really? Wait, who are the wolf brothers?
Swan Huntley: Tobias Wolf and his brother, who is
now blanking on.
Jeniffer: You know, I think you're right. Oh, my God.
Swan Huntley: They have books in La Jolla. Like, they also have, like, a history in
La Jolla. So it's funny, but my memoir actually comes
out, and I'm not sure yet when Fletcher's comes
out.
Jeniffer: M are m you gonna compare notes and read each
other's before they're published?
Swan Huntley: I don't know.
Jeniffer: Maybe. Ted, you
were gonna say something to it.
Chad: Oh, I was thinking you could do it like, a McSweeney
sort of thing, where they take,
one person's memoir is one side of the book, and then you flip it over
upside down, and on the back is the brother's memoir. So
it's all in the same.
Jeniffer: That's actually brilliant. That's a really good idea.
Thank you. McSweeney. The
Tobias Wolf memoir, his. The coming of
age, his young childhood, because I know he's written several
memoirs. I can't remember the name of it right now. It's one word.
Brilliant. One of the best memoirs I've ever read.
Swan Huntley: Yeah.
Jeniffer: So good. Well, I look forward to reading your memoir, but
for now, let's get back to Zara pining.
So did you know the ending to
this book when you first started writing it, or was it a surprise to
you?
Swan Huntley: You know, I knew that what is revealed
in the ending was,
to some degree, part of Zara's character the
whole time. And
I knew that she was presenting,
a story that wasn't completely
true. I think what we learned about
her in the end is something that a lot of people
have inside of them, and a lot of people are trying to
hide. And so
after writing a draft, I think it wasn't until I wrote a
draft and had a conversation with my editors about, you know, what was
really going inside Zara that we decided,
oh, this should be the reveal
at the end, you know, again, blown up. I
think as my career continues, I'm just
having more and more fun with a, bigger and bigger plot.
Jeniffer: You know, I got that sense when I was reading this
book. I just imagined you having so much fun
with this book. And I thought to myself,
myself, it's like it is getting
bigger and almost a little bit more. It's not
ridiculous. That's not the right word. It's bigger in
a really fun way, but the characters are
a little bit ridiculous. But also, I can totally see this
happening.
Swan Huntley: Yeah. Thank you. And, yes, I was having so much
fun writing it. You know, I think to
me, I have a lot of writer friends who are like, oh,
no, I have to write the book. And I'm thinking,
dude, this was the goal. Like, we're living the
dream. This is it. This is what our little self wanted.
And we started doing this because it was fun. So, you know,
of course, like, it's an arduous, it's a long
process, but it's also so fun to lose
yourself in a fake world and then to have other
humans actually read it. Like, how cool.
Jeniffer: Very cool. Yeah, absolutely.
How often do you write?
Swan Huntley: I. I mean, I write
compulsively and have really, since I was nine and my mom gave
me my first journal, I have
recorded everything. I mean, not everything,
but I've recorded so much of my life, and
I think that. That, you know, has informed my
memory. It's like I'm choosing what my. What to
remember as I write it, and I'm m also
just practicing, you know, writing
stories. how often do I work
on, you know, books, larger
projects? I like to work in a really
concentrated way, so, ideally,
I go away. Recently, I went to Costa Rica to
write this memoir, and it's just so much
easier to leave so that I don't have to be saying
no to everything. I don't have to be thinking about, you know,
what's happening in my house. and
then I just work in a really, like, dedicated, monkish way
where that's all I'm doing for a short period. For some
reason, all of my books have taken me seven weeks to write.
Jeniffer: Wow. Wow.
Swan Huntley: That's my magic number. But that's, like, again,
a very monkish. This is all I'm doing.
And, you know, a reason I
do that is because I think that starting energy is a particular
type of energy. It's not like any other energy. And I
think when you feel that excitement or when I
do, I want to take it as far as I
can. And also, it's just a lot to
remember. There's a lot of stuff in a novel, so
I feel like if I step away from it and then I come back, I'm
wasting two weeks to remember what I
wrote.
Jeniffer: Absolutely. That's so true
and awesome that you can just sit down
and bust it out. Seven weeks feels pretty
incredible to me. That feels like, what, 8 hours a day
or.
Swan Huntley: 8 hours a day or. I don't know. I don't really. I'm, like,
so regimented anyway that I don't really think about it
doing a.
Jeniffer: Time thing for me.
Swan Huntley: but I just do it until I
feel like I've honestly done enough
work.
Jeniffer: That's awesome.
Well, and you're coming out with another book
on June 11. we mentioned it in the
bio, but you're grounded. An anti self help book
to calm you the fuck down. So tell us about this
book. Yeah.
Swan Huntley: I'm so excited about this book. So, this is an interactive
journal style book. It features me as a bird
stick person. And every time I show
this stick person to somebody, they're like, oh, yeah, that's you. It's funny
because for a while, I was like, how
should I depict myself? Should I be a swan? That seems like too
on the nose. So I just call this my
birdie self. And,
my birdie self takes you through some ideas about how to get
grounded in a way that's not cloying. I love self
help. I love the self help section, but I. What
doesn't resonate with me about the self help section is that a lot
of it is so earnest. It's, like, painfully earnest. And
that doesn't resonate with me. I'm just
like, no, I mean, if you really think about what we're doing here, it's
all hilarious, right? What are we doing? We don't even
know. So it's
funny. And,
yeah, this is my second illustrated book, and
this was an unexpected turn that my
career took. The first one is called the bad mood book. And these
books are just so fun to write. And I'm very
happy to not only be writing novels now.
That's a big thing I've realized in the last few years is,
you know, it did not work for me to put all my eggs in
one basket, especially because I am very fast.
Jeniffer: right.
Swan Huntley: It's more fun and more rewarding to do
many different things.
Jeniffer: I can see that.
I love that you are so dedicated to your writing, and I
think the word dedicated is kind of
perfect when describing you.
I've listened to a couple interviews, and I remember hearing
one where you talked about your journey to getting
published, being dedicated to make that happen.
Can you tell us that story?
Swan Huntley: Of course.
Jeniffer: You're like, which story? Okay.
Swan Huntley: no, I think this is, you know, a good story that I hope
is helpful to anybody who. Who is writing. It's really about,
you know, trusting yourself and,
and, that it's. It's really about persistence. Talent
is like a nice icing on the cake, but it's not the
cake. Like, this is about persistence. So
I have always wanted to be a writer. I, you know, I have
been confused about many other things in my life, but it was always clear to me
I was going to be a writer, and
I took a traditional route. I got, ah, you know, a
ba in creative writing, and then I went on to get an
MFA in creative writing. And for my thesis, I
wrote a novel. And I was so
dedicated to this idea of this novel happening that
I designed the COVID many times. I painted the
COVID on a canvas. I had a notebook
that was filled with collages
of, like, clothes that the main character would buy. I had
a map of her room. I had, like, her whole life
in this notebook. I was like, this is happening.
And my thesis advisors read this
novel, which is called it's going to be a wonderful
day. And, it was set in
PB Pacific Beach, San Diego, near where
I grew up. And they were like, this
is really good. You should send it out to
agents. And I remember one of my thesis
advisors, Gary Steingart, gave me the
email address of his agent. I thought it was such a big deal,
even though he said at the time, she doesn't answer anybody, but here you
go.
Jeniffer: I don't think I ever heard, but.
Swan Huntley: At that time, the publishing industry seemed so
opaque and huge and overwhelming.
Now, I know that it's like four people
who all know each other. but I sent the book
out, and everybody said the
same thing, which was, wow, you're a really good writer, but nothing
happens in this book. And I was like, oh, my
God, is that true? Nothing else? Whoa.
Okay. So after I got over
that, I wrote an entirely new
book. Sent it out.
and all the agents said, yeah, you're a really
good writer, but nothing happens in this book. Except for there
was one agent who said, but if
you change these 9 billion
things about this book, I'll consider repping you.
And I. I
thought I had made it. I mean, I was like, this is it.
I walked down Fifth Avenue afterwards.
I always say, fry boots that I would
never wear today. And I was like, I made it. Now I'm
like, wow, Fifth Avenue was such a douchebag place to meet.
Like, totally different view on
it, but I
changed the 9 billion things. And I went back to him, and I was like,
hey, here is what you asked for.
Jeniffer: I'm ready.
Swan Huntley: He basically barely remembered who I was. He
was like, what? Who are you? No, like. And I
was like, wow, okay, this is a good
lesson. You know, it's so funny, these lessons that we
all know, but then we have to learn them ourselves. It's actually, like,
incredibly annoying. I often think about how everything I know
I learned in kindergarten, and now I'm just, like,
relearning it.
Jeniffer: Right?
Swan Huntley: Yeah. You know, don't trust
other people's opinions. One of the first things
that my first workshop teacher in grad school
said was, you need to be 90% sure of what you're doing,
and the other 10%, you need to be really, really open to being
wrong, but you need to be 90% sure, because
otherwise you're just like, you know, a sailboat with
no sail. You're just going to get thrashed around.
so then what happened was I ended
up going to a one week workshop at
Eckerd College, my alma mater, with this woman,
Anne Hood. I took a class with Anne Hood for one week, and
during this class, she handed out what she called the novel
template. And she said, if you can't fill out this
template, then you can't write a novel. And it
asked some really basic questions. What is
the plot of your novel? Like in,
you know, two paragraphs? what is the structure of
the novel? What is you, what is the
container? That's something that a lot of people don't think
about. What is the full time span that we're dealing with of?
And then how from there, can you go chop it up to
suit the needs of your story? And I looked at this
thing, and I was like, this is so beneath me. This is so
rudimentary, you know? Now, in retrospect, I can see
that my grad school program was really useful because it made me
friends. It was also just like a soft, soft
landing, a nice place to be while getting sober because it was pretty easy.
You know, you just kind of showed up. Honestly, I spent the second half of
grad school reading Pema showedroom books within the other
book that I was, like, pretending to take notes about in the
back of the class.
So when people say, how was grad school? I'm like, I don't even
really know. But,
I used. I ended up using that novel
template to write my next
book. And by that time, I was really pissed
off because I've never
gotten myself jobs
where I could get comfortable. You know, I was working
as a nanny at Soho, which was, you
know, fascinating, but not somewhere I wanted to be forever.
Jeniffer: Right.
Swan Huntley: so, yeah, I quit that job, and
then I went and wrote we could be beautiful.
First at a residency called Ragdale in
Chicago, where it was so cold, I went jogging one day
and almost lost my thumb. And then
the second half of the book I wrote in Hawaii where my
dad lived, and where I've done a lot of writing,
an adult and everything.
And I was like, things are going to happen
in this book, I think I titled the document things
are going to happen.
Jeniffer: Like, wow.
Swan Huntley: I was like, all right, what's happening?
Where's the forward momentum, you know? And
I started thinking about it from the point of
view of the reader. Like, how do you get the person to turn
the page? How do you create suspense?
And I think a lot of people might hear that and think, oh, well, that's just, you
know, commercial. and, like, trying to
be too commercial. But it's, to me, it's so fun to try
to create suspense, to figure out how much
information dole out at what time, what
is the tone, what are you making the reader believe? And then how
are you upending their expectations? It's so
fun.
Jeniffer: Absolutely. You know, I think of it
cinematically too. Like, when I was reading I want you
more, all I could do is visualize this,
like, gorgeous estate in the Hamptons and these
beautiful women, these characters who were
like, I just felt like it was
unfolding in front of me so vividly.
Do you try and imagine it
as if it's on a movie screen when you write?
Swan Huntley: I mean, I definitely imagine it
visually of. Course.
and, you know, since moving to LA, I'm writing
scripts like everybody else, so.
Jeniffer: Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
Swan Huntley: Pointed out to me that it's actually low production cost
movie or tv series,
so I hadn't really thought of that, but, yeah,
that's a plus.
Jeniffer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Swan Huntley: I'm always thinking in terms of images, you know.
Jeniffer: Yeah. Whatever happened to
it's going to be a beautiful day? Did you just totally scrap it or did
pieces of those characters end up in your other books?
Swan Huntley: That's a really good question. I mean,
I think I've kind
of, it's funny, I wrote
a draft of what would have been my
third novel, and that was
similar to, it's going
to be a beautiful day in that it was about
somebody who was overly optimistic. and I
guess that theme sort of bled into Stevie
Green. So, like, yes, kind of,
but not directly.
Jeniffer: Yeah, yeah.
What would you say was the most fun about writing?
I want you more.
Swan Huntley: Ooh.
I mean, personally, it always feels
great to metabolize my pain into art.
Like, I don't know what I would be doing if I were an accountant or something. I
think I would have to, like, be a kickboxer or,
I don't know, figure out
some other outlet. And
then from a craft perspective, as
I just said, it's just, a
blast to be thinking about. Okay, where am I going to
end this chapter? How is that going to make the reader
keep reading? What am I going to tell them now?
when will this reveal come?
How can I really control the emotions of the reader?
Jeniffer: I felt this crazy amount of tension from page
one, and I kept thinking about
that as I was reading. Like, I had this sense of,
like, oh, shit, what's gonna happen? Right? Like,
there was tension in the writing even though there was nothing
tense happening. Right. And I'm just
curious if when you're writing, do you
purposely try and imbue that into your writing, or do
you come back later and see it and then enhance it? Like, what's.
What's that like for you?
Swan Huntley: Oh, that's interesting.
Swan Huntley: I don't know that I really thought, okay, there needs to
be
tension.
I.
But, like, I think there's a sense of mystery, you know?
Jeniffer: Right.
Swan Huntley: That's perfect. Yeah?
Jeniffer: Mm
Swan Huntley: Like, obviously.
Jeniffer: Well, I. Absolutely.
Swan Huntley: Oh, sorry.
Jeniffer: Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Swan Huntley: this book starts with, the death of Zara's
father, which is really based on my own dad's
death. But I did that because I wanted her to be extra
vulnerable. So we start with that, and then we get
her meeting with Jane Bailey at a time when she's
incredibly lost. She's like a soup looking for a
container. I don't remember if I kept that line in there or not,
but, we know you did.
Jeniffer: You did? Yeah.
Swan Huntley: Oh, good. Okay.
Jeniffer: Yeah.
Swan Huntley: Oh, and you remembered it.
Jeniffer: That's nice. Yeah, no, I totally did.
I was like, oh, I love that. There's so many sayings that I,
you know, in little phrases that I wanted to underline that were so
great. I mean, you're just a fantastic writer, swan. I mean, there's no
doubt. But also, like, you create
these exciting experiences for your reader, and that's,
you know, it is an escape, and that's fucking awesome.
So good on you.
Swan Huntley: Thank you. Thanks so much.
Jeniffer: You know what else I want to talk about is eavesdropping.
Wait, what?
Swan Huntley: Yeah. That is my favorite activity,
and my favorite place to eavesdrop is on the beach,
because you can be really close to other people,
and they don't even think that you're eavesdropping on
them. And you can also, like, peep over at
them. I mean, you can just, like, basically baldly stare
at people, like they're saying at the beach.
Yeah. And I say you wear,
like.
Jeniffer: Big hat.
Swan Huntley: Wear what?
Chad: Oh, I'm imagining you wearing, like, a big hat
and sunglasses, or you just boldly do
this without any of that.
Swan Huntley: I mean, I'm a big fan of a hat. I like a, ah, hat.
I'm in restoration mode now that I'm 41.
My mom is really, really, really into sunscreen, so we're all, like,
completely paranoid. I used to go to school when I was a little kid, and people would be
like, who smells like suntan lotion? And I'd be like,
oh, it's me. but I grew up going
to Hawaii a lot.
Jeniffer: And.
Swan Huntley: I was gonna say,
yeah, they go there with a lot of expectation. And my
favorite place to eavesdrop, Hawaii,
is on the big island at Kua bay. It's this just really pretty beach.
And, you know, you just hear people go like, okay, what
are we doing later? Well, what are we gonna eat? And you just
like, you hear the stress of them being on the
vacation. It's hilarious,
right?
Jeniffer: I have this great story. One time I was at dinner with some
friends, and we were standing in line. I think we were getting ready to pay, and we were talking
about what we were gonna do next. And we had plans of going to this
place called eclipse chocolate, which, dear listeners, it's
fantastic. You can order it online, eclipsechocolate.com.
anyway, so we're like, okay, we're gonna go to eclipse. We're gonna get chocolate, and
then we're gonna go to this other place, and we're gonna, like, watch the beach.
I don't remember what it was, but I realized at eclipse
that there were these people there who had been at the restaurant. And I was like, oh,
look, those people were at the restaurant. And then the third
location where we went, those same people were there. And I
was like, wow, that's so crazy. And so I literally,
like, kind of walked over and I said, oh, my gosh, we saw you at the
restaurant and at Eclipse. And he kind of got this
sheepish look on his face and he was like, oh, well, we heard you over
talking about what you were going to do with your evening, and it sounded so fun.
We decided to do it, too.
Swan Huntley: Oh, my God. I knew that was going to be the punchline. Of this
story. I love it.
Jeniffer: So fun, eavesdropping. So. Right.
But, I mean, as a writer, you really do need
to pay attention because that's where your characters
come from. Is all these beautiful people out
in the world doing these crazy things that we adopt into
characters? I love it.
Swan Huntley: I have always been, you know, on the subject of
observing, I've always just
loved looking at other people and
figuring out what they're doing and making
up stories about them. I can't work in a cafe or in
public because I get too invested in the characters around
me.
Jeniffer: Right.
Swan Huntley: And, I'm just, like, very easily
entertained, you know, I like to say I think I could just stare at a blade of
grass for, like, an hour. But really, people, I'm just like,
what are we doing? You know? I often zoom out and
think, so we built these houses, then we built
fences around them. We're, like, taking ourselves so
seriously. Where is that person going? Like, what are we
doing? It's just hilarious.
Jeniffer: Totally. Yeah. my mom and I, when we would go on
road trips, like, we'd see someone walking down the road, and, like,
ten minutes later, we would have, like, developed this entire
story around why they're walking down the road, what happened? They
got into a fight with their lover, and, like, you know where
they're going and why they're doing it. So I agree.
I like to entertain myself with the fake
stories of those around me.
Swan Huntley: Totally. And I like asking people questions,
too. Like, I like to cut right through the
small at a party and be like, no, how are you
really?
Jeniffer: That must be disarming to people. Like, do they appreciate
it, or are they like, whoa.
Swan Huntley: I kind of depends on the person, but I don't really want to have
the small talk. They don't like it. That's okay.
Jeniffer: You're like, move on, moving on.
Chad: Next desired
effect is reached either way.
Jeniffer: Yeah, totally. I love that about you. And then
maybe that comes through in the characters, too, you know?
m by the way, I love Diego in
this book. Like, he's so fun.
He just. He says all of the things,
that I want to say.
Where does Diego come from in this book?
Swan Huntley: Gosh, no one has asked me about Diego. Thanks for
asking. Diego is loosely based on my friend
Randy, who's a lawyer, and we
lived together for a few years back in the day in Boston.
And, he is just
a truth teller, you know? And that is
what Diego does. He's a great foil.
Jeniffer: Zara.
Swan Huntley: And part of the fun of writing first character
is that every first character is
unreliable. First person narrator, I
should say, is an unreliable narrator. And
so I'm interested in figuring out how to
see around what the narrator is telling
us to, what is true. And a great way to do that is to have a truth
telling friend foil like Diego.
Jeniffer: Absolutely. That's awesome.
Would you say that getting your
MFA made you a better writer?
Swan Huntley: I, think I.
It put me in
among people who were also
serious about writing. and that was
very important to me at the time. I think
writing is so solitary that just to have
a group was really
useful. So I kind of. It's almost like aa in
a way, where it's like, I don't think I would have stopped drinking if
I didn't have that group to go walk into. You know? It's just
like, oh, there are these people doing this. Okay, I can do
this, technically, make
a writer. Sure. I'm sure I learned some things
technically. I mean, what you really learn is how to give m
feedback, which is useful.
Jeniffer: Yeah, it is useful. Oh, I feel like I'm really bad at that.
When I go into reading critique groups, I'm like, I have no
idea what to say.
I'm either gonna say, wow, that's really good, or, that was terrible. Like,
those are the things I want to say.
Swan Huntley: Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, the
person on the other end.
Different people respond to different things too.
So sometimes you have to take that into account.
Jeniffer: 100%.
Now, I find it interesting, that you're.
You've switched publishers. So I wanted to ask
about moving to ziby books and
how that came to be.
Swan Huntley: I moved to Zibby books for a really
logistical reason. gallery, the imprint
of Simon and Schuster, with whom I published
getting clean with Stevie Green, stopped
doing novels and is now only
doing celebrity memoirs.
Jeniffer: Oh, interesting. Wait, will yours be
published through them? I mean, you are a celebrity.
Swan Huntley: No, my memoir is.
No, but, like, the book that I
ghost wrote for the Real Housewife is published by them. That's the
type of celebrity I think they're in.
my memoir is going to be published with zippy books. It comes out
at some point next summer.
Jeniffer: Oh, yeah. Nice. We have a lot to look forward to from
you. Are you
already working on. Are you already working on your next novel?
Swan Huntley: No, I'm still. I just turned the memoir
in, and so now we're editing it. I'm focused on that and also
on making some visual art.
Jeniffer: Well, and, I mean, you're on tour for two books too.
That's gonna take up a lot of time.
Swan Huntley: Yeah, it's really fun. It's such a different
mind, space to inhabit than the,
sitting alone, making stuff. Mindspace.
Jeniffer: I imagine, like, you go in chunks, right? So you
write for seven weeks, and then you go through the editing process, and then when it's
finally published, then you go through the touring process.
Does your life feel like it has these
patterns that happen?
Swan Huntley: yeah, it does feel
like. I guess I'm sort of used to this process
now. And, as I said before, what I'm focused on right now is just
doing more, is
diversifying my portfolio, I guess I could say.
So I feel like making some visual art right now,
so I'm just going to do that and see how that goes. I kind of think the whole
world of visual art is just such bullshit. I kind
of just want to see how far I can get.
And then I'm also interested in writing for
tv and film. And, so that's something else
I'm trying to move forward right now.
Jeniffer: Well, speaking of visual art, I know that you have a line of
greeting cards. I mean, I guess you would call them a line. I have them
and I love them. And when I send them to people, people
are like, wait, where did you get these? Are you still selling
your greeting cards on your website?
Swan Huntley: God, that's a great question. I am
not. But if anybody wants a greeting card, you can
just email me through my website. There's, like, a contact
form at the end. and
I think what I'm going to do for a little while is just
make original pieces and
sell those on instagram and see how it goes.
Jeniffer: I think that's a really good idea.
Swan Huntley: Thank you.
Jeniffer: That's a great idea. Yeah. You're
so talented. You do so many things. It's incredible
to me.
Swan Huntley: Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. Well, as I said, I'm just trying to entertain
myself in a room alone and have fun.
Jeniffer: And entertaining the world as you do it.
so you're grounded when that comes
out on June 11. are you gonna have a big
bash? who's publishing that book? I didn't
ask.
Swan Huntley: That book is being published by Tartar Perigee.
who? They publish a lot of gift books like this, and
they also publish gabor mate, who I
think is a genius and whose
most recent book is called Myth of Normal. And then also Julia
Cameron's the Artist's way is published by them. So they do kind of a
large thing. and my editor
there, Lauren Appleton, is so rad. She
totally understands my dark sense of humor. It's
great.
Jeniffer: That's important.
Swan Huntley: Yeah, yeah, it's great. And
I think, you know, at this stage in my
career, I really understand
that it's best to be as involved as possible
in this publicity, outfacing part of it,
and to just be really
proactive. In the past,
I have expected other people to do that for
me, and then I've been, frequently
disappointed. And so this time I'm like, I'm
just gonna make up a bunch of stuff. So, on June 11,
on the launch day, I'm doing a conversation at a
lesbian cafe here in Weho. You know,
it's pride month, so I'm also like,
whatever, the gay person with the books.
I'm doing an event with my friend who, like,
organizes all the lesbian parties in LA. And
then on the 29th, I will be having a
conversation with Emily Hampshire at
Annabelle's book club in LA.
Jeniffer: Nice. Nice. Oh, my gosh, I wish
that, the traffic between San Diego and LA wasn't quite so
harsh or I'd come up to one of those and
celebrate with you.
well, I think I'm coming to.
Swan Huntley: San Diego for something.
Jeniffer: Oh, well, you know what? I will have to get on. Do you have a
newsletter?
Swan Huntley: No.
Jeniffer: So I have to pay attention to Instagram because I know you're active
on Instagram.
Swan Huntley: Ah, I guess so. Or I'll put it on my website.
Jeniffer: Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Well, I wanted to ask you if the
difference between, you know, a gift book and a novel
is, like, just in the promotional world,
is it markedly different or is, you know, it's still a book.
How does that. How does that work?
Swan Huntley: It is completely different. you
know, the novel people, like, don't really know what a gift
book is. And then the gift book people think that
novels are prestigious. And the
marketing part of it, the gift book, really all
happens online. Like, it's really
all about social media.
and then, the novel, you go and
read to people and you have these events
and, so whatever. I'm
having some events for my gift book that I made up, and I'm
probably doing that because I'm primarily a novelist, but
that's definitely not a standard thing.
Jeniffer: So what you need is an influencer to tell the world
to buy this book. Well, right.
Swan Huntley: A ton of influencers. Yeah.
Jeniffer: Not just one. All of them. All of the
influencers need. You are grounded. Well, I can't wait to find
it.
Swan Huntley: Thank you.
Jeniffer: And I say find it because, as you said, there's no
arcs out there. They don't do that in the gift
book world, which I find fascinating. So on June 11, I
will run out and buy it. Can you pre order
it?
Swan Huntley: Great. If you want to pre order it. Actually, I don't know when this
podcast is coming out, but if people can pre order,
pre orders are really, really important. even if this
doesn't apply to my book now, just in general, if you have author
friends, preorders are so major
in a way, they determine the success of the book. I mean,
they determine which lists you're on, how you get
rated on Amazon. so if you want to support your author
friends, pre order.
Jeniffer: Definitely. Definitely. Excellent advice,
which we will absolutely do.
Okay, I have one final question for you before we let you
go about your day. What is
the weirdest job you've ever had?
Swan Huntley: I've had so many weird jobs.
I guess I was a television for a
little while, and,
I have realized that if you have facial
tattoos, you're either a rock star or a
telemarketer. and
there was like, a smoking pen in this
parking lot. So it was basically like me
as a teenager. I was young when I had this job and a bunch
of people with facial tattoos in this, like, small, little square
pen, smoking, like, crowded. Yeah. And
then trying to sell stuff. I was not selling
the stuff, but it was funny.
Jeniffer: That's awesome. Well, I think at some point maybe a
telemarketer is going to make it into your books,
right? Maybe.
Well, Swan, thank you so much. this has been awesome.
I love talking to you and I love reading your books.
I look forward to getting, my hands on your grounded.
An anti self help book to calm you the fuck down, which,
who doesn't need that? And I just want to tell our listeners,
I want you more. Is such a good book. I read it in
one day and it's such a page turner. It's
so fun. And you're going to love it. The
ending is fantastic. I mean, the whole book is
fantastic, but I didn't see it coming. Let's just put it that way.
And, yeah, you can learn more about Swan on our website,
swanhuntly.com. you can follow her on Instagram
swannhuntley, and go out and pre order her
books. Support Swan. She's. You're one
of the good ones, Swan. We love you.
Swan Huntley: Oh, my God. Thank you so much, jennifer. This has been a
blast and so happy to be talking to a San
Diego.
Jeniffer: Yeah, I know, right? When you, when I saw your phone number, I was
like, oh, that's right, 619. That's right. She's
from San Diego. So that was, that was a fun
reminder.
All right, folks, thank you so much for joining us today
on the premise. And please visit us
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until next week. Thank you so much for listening.
Goodbye. Goodbye.