1 00:00:00,100 --> 00:00:02,266 but we have to control what we can control 2 00:00:02,266 --> 00:00:03,800 and what we can control is 3 00:00:04,133 --> 00:00:06,100 how we show up in relationship 4 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:09,066 can our son see that we're emotional 5 00:00:09,066 --> 00:00:11,066 can our son see that we're vulnerable 6 00:00:11,066 --> 00:00:12,700 can our son see that we're scared 7 00:00:12,700 --> 00:00:14,333 that we're mad that we're happy 8 00:00:14,333 --> 00:00:17,000 us guys aren't very good at expressing happiness 9 00:00:17,066 --> 00:00:19,200 unless our sports team is winning 10 00:00:19,266 --> 00:00:20,066 what about 11 00:00:20,066 --> 00:00:22,566 what about all the other times when we're having happy 12 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,966 but we're too cool to to look out of control and happy 13 00:00:32,933 --> 00:00:34,500 welcome back to raising men 14 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:38,766 I'm joined today by somebody whose work has shaped 15 00:00:38,833 --> 00:00:40,900 countless fathers and families 16 00:00:40,900 --> 00:00:44,133 and conversations about modern masculinity 17 00:00:44,133 --> 00:00:45,200 Todd Adams 18 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,133 Todd is the executive director of Men Living and co 19 00:00:49,133 --> 00:00:52,500 host of the Zen Parenting Radio podcast 20 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:55,433 and a long time advocate for what he calls 21 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:58,400 conscious masculinity Todd 22 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,200 thanks so much for joining 23 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:01,500 thank you Sean 24 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:02,300 excited to be here 25 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:04,933 so let's talk about conscious masculinity 26 00:01:04,933 --> 00:01:05,600 why it is what 27 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,633 what is it and why does it matter 28 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,200 uh how do I start 29 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,500 um so 30 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:13,400 I heard a Ted talk a while back 31 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,900 by a guy named Tony Porter 32 00:01:14,900 --> 00:01:17,000 he runs an organization on the east coast 33 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:18,300 actually all over the place 34 00:01:18,533 --> 00:01:19,400 and uh 35 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,266 it's about healthy masculinity 36 00:01:21,266 --> 00:01:23,933 and he presented a framework to me 37 00:01:23,933 --> 00:01:24,733 that I'd never heard before 38 00:01:24,733 --> 00:01:26,033 but he did not come up with it 39 00:01:26,033 --> 00:01:26,933 but um 40 00:01:27,633 --> 00:01:28,200 the first I heard 41 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,600 of it was on his TikTok and he talked about the man box 42 00:01:31,633 --> 00:01:31,866 OK 43 00:01:31,866 --> 00:01:37,800 so there are plenty of examples out there in society of 44 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:38,733 um 45 00:01:39,633 --> 00:01:42,000 what masculinity means and I think everybody 46 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,966 has their own interpretation of that for me 47 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,433 masculinity means that we are sometimes stoic 48 00:01:49,433 --> 00:01:52,433 and sometimes strong and sometimes determined 49 00:01:52,433 --> 00:01:55,233 and sometimes singularly focused 50 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:59,233 and there's other times when we are soft 51 00:01:59,233 --> 00:02:01,033 and gentle and nurturing 52 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:03,466 I think when we showed up as boys 53 00:02:03,466 --> 00:02:05,633 Sean you and I both identify as men 54 00:02:05,666 --> 00:02:08,666 when we showed up we were actually more emotional 55 00:02:08,666 --> 00:02:10,266 than our female counterparts 56 00:02:10,266 --> 00:02:12,566 they've literally done studies scientifically 57 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:14,700 boys are actually more emotionally expressive 58 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:16,433 than young women and then 59 00:02:16,466 --> 00:02:18,800 you know as toddlers and young adolescents 60 00:02:18,866 --> 00:02:22,200 but then society grabs a hold of us and says no 61 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,466 this is the one way to be a man 62 00:02:23,466 --> 00:02:25,500 and being being a man means you gotta be tough 63 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:27,600 you gotta be athletic as you get older 64 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:28,466 you gotta make a lot of money 65 00:02:28,466 --> 00:02:30,200 you gotta have a lot of sexual partners 66 00:02:30,433 --> 00:02:34,600 um I am based on how big my house is 67 00:02:34,633 --> 00:02:37,666 and I call that like that's a version of the man box 68 00:02:37,666 --> 00:02:40,166 the man box is um 69 00:02:40,266 --> 00:02:43,700 there's one narrow lens of what it means to be a man 70 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:44,733 and that means to be tough 71 00:02:44,733 --> 00:02:47,200 to be impenetrable think about 72 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,466 you know the movies and pop culture that we see 73 00:02:49,466 --> 00:02:52,533 of what the typical prototypical man is 74 00:02:52,533 --> 00:02:54,133 yeah whether it's superheroes or whatever 75 00:02:54,133 --> 00:02:58,166 it's just a bunch of guys that are just uh 76 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:02,033 super strong and super determined and show no weakness 77 00:03:02,033 --> 00:03:03,533 and go alone often huh 78 00:03:03,833 --> 00:03:05,500 go it alone boys don't cry 79 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:07,566 all of the above so 80 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,333 um your question was what's conscious masculinity 81 00:03:10,333 --> 00:03:11,933 it's it's a 82 00:03:11,933 --> 00:03:15,900 a more expansive version of what it means to be a man 83 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:17,300 and um 84 00:03:17,333 --> 00:03:20,433 what I see on TV and from our leadership 85 00:03:20,433 --> 00:03:23,133 whether it's corporate or political um 86 00:03:23,133 --> 00:03:25,933 there's there's not a whole lot of other 87 00:03:26,233 --> 00:03:27,933 ways to be in this life 88 00:03:27,933 --> 00:03:31,266 other than to be stoic and to be in invulnerable 89 00:03:31,266 --> 00:03:33,000 so that's my two cents yeah 90 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,000 no I think that is 91 00:03:35,433 --> 00:03:35,866 you know the 92 00:03:35,866 --> 00:03:37,700 the the metaphor that I've used to describe 93 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:39,366 that sort of thing is 94 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,100 you know we've sort of traditionally when I grew up 95 00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:45,533 masculinity was all about 96 00:03:45,533 --> 00:03:46,933 imagine you're a castle and it was 97 00:03:46,933 --> 00:03:49,600 it's all about how thick your walls are yeah 98 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,366 and and 99 00:03:51,700 --> 00:03:53,433 but in reality 100 00:03:53,733 --> 00:03:56,333 I think that masculinity is about how much 101 00:03:56,333 --> 00:03:57,433 they can enclose 102 00:03:57,833 --> 00:04:01,133 how much they can protect and how much they can provide 103 00:04:01,133 --> 00:04:03,400 how much they can how how 104 00:04:03,533 --> 00:04:05,866 how inclusive the walls are 105 00:04:05,866 --> 00:04:08,600 meaning how big of a village can you have in there 106 00:04:08,666 --> 00:04:10,600 yeah and it's funny yeah 107 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:11,133 go ahead as 108 00:04:11,133 --> 00:04:13,533 as you say that I didn't thought 109 00:04:13,533 --> 00:04:15,233 I didn't think I was gonna jump in the deep end here 110 00:04:15,233 --> 00:04:17,033 but let me go ahead and do that anyway 111 00:04:17,033 --> 00:04:19,133 so there's a framework out there called the 4 112 00:04:19,133 --> 00:04:20,400 male archetypes and 113 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,866 in the four male archetypes there's um 114 00:04:22,866 --> 00:04:25,000 it's a Carl Jung um 115 00:04:25,033 --> 00:04:27,200 concept he had a whole bunch of different archetypes 116 00:04:27,233 --> 00:04:29,866 but there was a book out there called king warrior 117 00:04:29,866 --> 00:04:30,833 magician lover 118 00:04:30,833 --> 00:04:32,433 and the one you're talking about is 119 00:04:32,433 --> 00:04:33,900 the castle and the kingdom 120 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:35,500 and that is a very 121 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:37,233 important part of what it means to be a man 122 00:04:37,233 --> 00:04:38,466 which is to provide right 123 00:04:38,466 --> 00:04:39,500 like as men 124 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:41,733 we want to be able to provide not just money 125 00:04:41,733 --> 00:04:43,233 but provide 126 00:04:43,433 --> 00:04:45,700 with our emotional bandwidth and things like that 127 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:47,533 so that's one of the four male archetypes 128 00:04:47,533 --> 00:04:49,233 the king then we got the warrior 129 00:04:49,233 --> 00:04:50,400 which is the one I talked about 130 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,466 the impenetrable the 131 00:04:51,466 --> 00:04:53,333 the stoic one the strong 132 00:04:53,466 --> 00:04:55,100 but and then we got the magician 133 00:04:55,100 --> 00:04:56,233 which is the one who thinks 134 00:04:56,233 --> 00:04:59,033 so a king sees and blesses um 135 00:04:59,033 --> 00:05:01,500 a warrior gets stuff done 136 00:05:01,533 --> 00:05:02,600 a magician thinks 137 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,100 but then we forget about that fourth architect 138 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:08,166 which is the lover and the lover feels 139 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:11,366 the lover allows himself to be hurt 140 00:05:11,466 --> 00:05:13,266 the lover exposes himself the 141 00:05:13,266 --> 00:05:14,833 the lover will um 142 00:05:15,066 --> 00:05:19,533 express his um gratitude 143 00:05:19,533 --> 00:05:20,066 his emotion 144 00:05:20,066 --> 00:05:22,766 his love for all the different people in his life 145 00:05:22,933 --> 00:05:25,533 and we just don't hear about that one very often 146 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:27,633 so I'm just trying to bring a little bit more balance 147 00:05:27,633 --> 00:05:29,633 cause there's times when I am in my warrior 148 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:32,066 but there's this whole other part of who I am 149 00:05:32,066 --> 00:05:34,333 that isn't allowed to be brought up to the surface 150 00:05:34,333 --> 00:05:36,000 because society doesn't think that that 151 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,233 belongs and I'm just trying to change that narrative 152 00:05:39,033 --> 00:05:42,033 yeah I think that's a that's really important work 153 00:05:42,033 --> 00:05:43,833 and and so tell me 154 00:05:44,633 --> 00:05:49,700 you know specifically for fathers raising boys today 155 00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:50,400 what how 156 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,433 what do you think that awareness actually looks like 157 00:05:53,433 --> 00:05:56,400 day to day how do you how do you make that a practice 158 00:05:56,833 --> 00:05:58,500 um it's a great question 159 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:01,033 and let me just kind of expand it to just like 160 00:06:01,033 --> 00:06:01,800 being a parent 161 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:03,600 cause I've been doing a podcast with my wife 162 00:06:03,633 --> 00:06:06,500 for 15 years and um 163 00:06:07,433 --> 00:06:07,800 at at 164 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,266 in my journey of talking to a bunch of groups 165 00:06:11,266 --> 00:06:13,400 and what it means to be a good parent 166 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,133 and how do we become a good parent 167 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,466 a lot of questions get asked of my wife and I 168 00:06:17,466 --> 00:06:18,300 and they'll be like well 169 00:06:18,300 --> 00:06:20,866 tell me what to say when my kid is whatever 170 00:06:20,866 --> 00:06:22,533 you know you just found out your 171 00:06:22,733 --> 00:06:25,800 your teenage boy is watching porn or um 172 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,633 what do I say when they get a d on a grade or whatever 173 00:06:29,733 --> 00:06:33,933 and what we say to our kids is a lot less important 174 00:06:33,933 --> 00:06:35,666 than I ever thought it was 175 00:06:35,666 --> 00:06:37,133 when I showed up as a parent 176 00:06:37,133 --> 00:06:39,133 I have three daughters 22 177 00:06:39,133 --> 00:06:40,400 20 and 18 178 00:06:40,533 --> 00:06:43,900 and I thought what I said to them was really important 179 00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:45,900 it's not as important as I thought it was 180 00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:49,533 no what it is for me and this is a very uh 181 00:06:49,533 --> 00:06:52,700 non scientific concept one that I came up with 182 00:06:52,833 --> 00:06:53,833 uh it may or 183 00:06:53,833 --> 00:06:55,033 may not land with your audience 184 00:06:55,033 --> 00:07:00,400 but it's 60 30 10 so it's 100% 60% of his modeling 185 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,066 forget about everything else 186 00:07:02,066 --> 00:07:05,533 if you want your son to be a kind person 187 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:06,733 be a kind person yeah 188 00:07:06,733 --> 00:07:09,166 if you want your son to read books 189 00:07:09,233 --> 00:07:11,500 read books if you want your son 190 00:07:11,533 --> 00:07:13,600 to not use weed and not to get drunk 191 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,233 then don't use weed and don't get drunk 192 00:07:15,233 --> 00:07:18,066 that is where I spend the majority of my time parenting 193 00:07:18,066 --> 00:07:19,700 cause I I 194 00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:21,000 I'll let out a secret 195 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:23,866 you're teaching your kid what 196 00:07:23,866 --> 00:07:25,000 whether you know it or not 197 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,466 you're teaching them every single day 198 00:07:27,466 --> 00:07:29,433 you want them to have a good relationship 199 00:07:29,433 --> 00:07:31,033 with their partner then 200 00:07:31,033 --> 00:07:33,266 figure out how to navigate conflict in a healthy way 201 00:07:33,266 --> 00:07:35,333 with your life partner that's the best way to do it 202 00:07:35,333 --> 00:07:37,166 so that's 60% of my energy 203 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,400 thirty percent of my energy is 204 00:07:39,566 --> 00:07:43,500 in what way am I spending time with my kid 205 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:47,500 how what energy am I setting a boundary 206 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:49,300 am I setting a boundary to be a jerk 207 00:07:49,300 --> 00:07:51,266 or am I setting a boundary saying hey 208 00:07:51,266 --> 00:07:54,166 I understand why you're interested in 209 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:55,533 seeing naked girls on your 210 00:07:55,533 --> 00:07:58,000 on your iPad but here's the deal guy 211 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,466 there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff on that 212 00:08:00,466 --> 00:08:01,900 that is just simply not true 213 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:05,333 and there's a lot of stuff on that that is um 214 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:07,133 it's actually toxic about 215 00:08:07,133 --> 00:08:08,633 and it's demeaning towards human beings 216 00:08:08,633 --> 00:08:11,033 especially the women in those videos so it's 217 00:08:11,033 --> 00:08:12,533 not what you say it's how you say 218 00:08:12,533 --> 00:08:15,833 and then the last 10% is the words you're actually 219 00:08:15,833 --> 00:08:17,833 giving to them so that's my 60 220 00:08:17,833 --> 00:08:18,966 30 10 model 221 00:08:19,033 --> 00:08:21,066 I think that's absolutely right 222 00:08:21,066 --> 00:08:23,166 I and I uh 223 00:08:24,533 --> 00:08:27,600 the modeling stuff is so important 224 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,433 you just need to be the man you want your son to be 225 00:08:30,933 --> 00:08:32,166 yeah and that 226 00:08:32,433 --> 00:08:34,500 that handles the lion share of it 227 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:36,400 yeah and I think and 228 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,133 and it's the fountainhead of it all too it 229 00:08:39,133 --> 00:08:40,533 it everything else flows from that 230 00:08:40,533 --> 00:08:41,133 because 231 00:08:41,133 --> 00:08:43,533 as you're being the man you want your son to be 232 00:08:43,533 --> 00:08:45,200 that's going to result 233 00:08:45,333 --> 00:08:47,333 in establishing appropriate boundaries 234 00:08:47,333 --> 00:08:48,133 in the appropriate way 235 00:08:48,133 --> 00:08:50,433 and how to say things in a way that 236 00:08:50,433 --> 00:08:53,100 that is that is fruitful 237 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:56,600 and it will allow you to select that last 10% 238 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,100 also select the appropriate words and and 239 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:02,800 and say things the right way as well and 240 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,666 and so it really just starts I 241 00:09:04,666 --> 00:09:06,000 I find you know 242 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,633 we do a lot on on this podcast 243 00:09:07,633 --> 00:09:10,433 I do a lot of talking with people about 244 00:09:10,433 --> 00:09:11,800 you know I 245 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,733 ultimately our goal is to raise excellent men right 246 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,300 and there's the the 247 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:21,900 the No. 1 rule associated with that 248 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:23,133 is to be an excellent man 249 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:26,066 yeah and it's tricky because we 250 00:09:26,066 --> 00:09:27,033 uh if we're lucky 251 00:09:27,033 --> 00:09:30,033 we had a father growing up and their 252 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,600 their dad brought them up in this world 253 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:34,033 I think that we as human beings 254 00:09:34,033 --> 00:09:35,666 the goal is for us to evolve a little bit 255 00:09:35,666 --> 00:09:36,533 so hopefully 256 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:39,100 I'm a slightly better dad than my dad was to me 257 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:40,566 that's right and hopefully 258 00:09:40,666 --> 00:09:43,633 my dad is a slightly better dad than his grand 259 00:09:43,700 --> 00:09:45,433 than his dad was to him yep 260 00:09:45,433 --> 00:09:49,400 and for me it's like just recognizing my own baggage 261 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,000 so like growing up 262 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,900 it's hard being a human being on this planet 263 00:09:52,900 --> 00:09:56,500 and I acquired a bunch of baggage growing up 264 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:58,133 from my mom from my dad 265 00:09:58,133 --> 00:10:02,633 from society and one thing that I wanna do is 266 00:10:02,866 --> 00:10:04,800 investigate my own reactivity 267 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:06,300 investigate my own baggage 268 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:07,700 investigate all these 269 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,600 things that brought me to be who I am 270 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,600 and not to pass the bad stuff down 271 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,500 pass the good stuff down to our kids 272 00:10:13,733 --> 00:10:14,300 but you know 273 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:15,266 a lot of dads will say to me 274 00:10:15,266 --> 00:10:16,400 well when I was 275 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:17,466 when I was their age 276 00:10:17,466 --> 00:10:20,533 I wasn't doing this and I turned out just fine 277 00:10:20,533 --> 00:10:22,900 and my question is always like 278 00:10:23,033 --> 00:10:25,633 are we sure we turned out as fine as we think we did 279 00:10:25,633 --> 00:10:29,200 because there's always an opportunity for me to grow 280 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,033 as a husband to grow as a father 281 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:33,100 and I think too often 282 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:36,633 there's a lot of moms and dads out there that are just 283 00:10:36,633 --> 00:10:39,200 um taking the 284 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,466 their own things that they haven't quite resolved 285 00:10:41,466 --> 00:10:42,866 and passing it down to their kids 286 00:10:42,866 --> 00:10:43,866 without looking in the mirror 287 00:10:43,866 --> 00:10:44,666 and looking at themselves 288 00:10:44,666 --> 00:10:46,633 and I know that can come out sounding harsh 289 00:10:46,633 --> 00:10:48,800 but if we're not doing our own personal growth work 290 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,000 then how can we possibly ask our kids to do that 291 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,500 moreover I think that in the past 292 00:10:54,500 --> 00:10:56,066 things changed a lot more slowly 293 00:10:56,066 --> 00:11:01,266 and so I think that my father had a different he 294 00:11:01,266 --> 00:11:03,933 he was in a different world than his father was in 295 00:11:03,933 --> 00:11:06,066 but it wasn't that much different 296 00:11:06,066 --> 00:11:11,233 80% was the same but my son is growing up into a world 297 00:11:11,233 --> 00:11:13,133 that is so radically different 298 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,200 from the one that I grew up in 299 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,833 that the lessons are just not the same 300 00:11:18,833 --> 00:11:22,933 my paradigms are absolutely not the same 301 00:11:22,933 --> 00:11:26,266 and it is and I the part of the 302 00:11:26,266 --> 00:11:29,300 my motivation for even having these conversations 303 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,233 is in recognizing that I 304 00:11:32,233 --> 00:11:35,100 I don't know what to do yeah 305 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:38,333 how old is your son my son is 6 okay yeah 306 00:11:38,333 --> 00:11:39,700 so you're catching him nice and early 307 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:40,700 but yeah I mean 308 00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:42,000 to your point Sean 309 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:42,633 I totally agree 310 00:11:42,633 --> 00:11:45,900 like I'm holding up my phone right now to the camera 311 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:48,233 right that's a game changer in 312 00:11:48,233 --> 00:11:49,933 in probably in in the worst way 313 00:11:49,933 --> 00:11:50,800 now there's some 314 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,333 some good parts about it too 315 00:11:52,333 --> 00:11:55,233 I mean it's a tool and tools can be good and bad 316 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,700 it's good and bad and um 317 00:11:58,900 --> 00:12:00,666 a lot of parents come to me and they're like 318 00:12:00,666 --> 00:12:02,266 oh my kid is addicted to their iPad 319 00:12:02,266 --> 00:12:03,633 and kid is addicted to their phone 320 00:12:03,633 --> 00:12:04,600 now I will say 321 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,833 what did I do this morning 322 00:12:05,833 --> 00:12:07,300 I woke up and I went to work 323 00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:08,733 and I've been in front of my screen all 324 00:12:08,733 --> 00:12:09,300 day that's right 325 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:10,800 I'm talking to you in front of my screen 326 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,866 I'm about to do a podcast in front of my wife 327 00:12:12,866 --> 00:12:13,933 in front of my screen 328 00:12:13,933 --> 00:12:15,033 so it's really not about the screens 329 00:12:15,033 --> 00:12:17,266 it's how am I engaging with this technology 330 00:12:17,266 --> 00:12:18,233 and you can say well 331 00:12:18,233 --> 00:12:19,600 this is my job and I'm productive 332 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,200 but just own the fact that I I 333 00:12:22,433 --> 00:12:24,266 I can't own the fact for anybody else 334 00:12:24,266 --> 00:12:26,266 I am also addicted to my screen 335 00:12:26,266 --> 00:12:28,266 sometimes it's in my YouTube algorithm 336 00:12:28,266 --> 00:12:29,866 sometimes because I work too much 337 00:12:29,866 --> 00:12:31,333 but I am addicted to my screen 338 00:12:31,333 --> 00:12:32,500 and if we as parents 339 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:33,666 can look at that first 340 00:12:33,666 --> 00:12:35,500 before we start telling our kids 341 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:39,233 how to manage their own addiction to the technology 342 00:12:39,233 --> 00:12:42,000 and it's a whole to your point Sean 343 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,600 it's a completely different world 344 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,800 and we cannot experience the world the way our kids do 345 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:48,133 because 346 00:12:48,133 --> 00:12:50,033 it's completely different than when we were growing up 347 00:12:50,033 --> 00:12:51,800 it goes back to the modeling right 348 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,400 you can't sit there and stare at your phone 349 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:56,400 telling your child not to get off his iPad 350 00:12:56,633 --> 00:12:58,900 yeah and expect that they're gonna actually do it 351 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:00,200 in fact every time you say that 352 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,033 you're losing credibility with them 353 00:13:02,233 --> 00:13:03,933 and they know it and they know it 354 00:13:03,933 --> 00:13:05,200 they feel it they know it 355 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,933 they're smarter than we give them credit for 356 00:13:06,933 --> 00:13:08,800 you know I I like to say that they're 357 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,133 they're it's like they're prisoners 358 00:13:10,133 --> 00:13:14,033 you like in a jail and we're the we're the we're the 359 00:13:14,033 --> 00:13:14,833 jailers 360 00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:18,366 and the prisoners have all the time in the world 361 00:13:18,733 --> 00:13:20,266 yeah to figure out how to escape 362 00:13:20,266 --> 00:13:22,466 and how to watch and see the patterns 363 00:13:22,466 --> 00:13:24,800 and all of that stuff and I don't have any time at all 364 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,000 I wake up and I go to work and I 365 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,100 I have to do all that stuff 366 00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,433 and my son just sits there and he gets to watch 367 00:13:30,433 --> 00:13:32,200 and he gets to figure out how to 368 00:13:32,333 --> 00:13:33,900 how to do what he's gonna do 369 00:13:34,066 --> 00:13:37,600 no doubt you know I I you know a lot of 370 00:13:39,433 --> 00:13:41,366 moving on that theme many 371 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:46,933 dads didn't grow up with emotionally available 372 00:13:47,233 --> 00:13:50,000 male role models most of us yeah 373 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:50,533 and and yet 374 00:13:50,533 --> 00:13:57,500 somehow we have to figure out how to lead emotionally 375 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,933 while still learning that ourselves 376 00:14:00,133 --> 00:14:02,200 and how do we do that 377 00:14:02,933 --> 00:14:04,200 it's a great question actually 378 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:04,866 that's I know 379 00:14:04,866 --> 00:14:06,500 we're gonna talk a little bit about the organization 380 00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:07,300 that I co founded 381 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:10,533 and I'm an executive director of um 382 00:14:10,533 --> 00:14:11,733 it's called Men Living and 383 00:14:11,733 --> 00:14:13,100 and I'll take say more about it 384 00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:13,933 but basically it's a 385 00:14:13,933 --> 00:14:16,966 it's a virtual and in person space for guys to connect 386 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,466 authentically and vulnerably 387 00:14:18,466 --> 00:14:20,933 that's in essence what it is that we're trying to do 388 00:14:20,933 --> 00:14:24,733 and it came from a weekend I had with my buddies 389 00:14:24,733 --> 00:14:26,433 so I was in my early 30s 390 00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:28,666 and I went on a golf weekend with my buddies 391 00:14:28,666 --> 00:14:30,100 and we did all the things that guys do 392 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:33,500 on golf weekends we gambled we drank we golfed 393 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:35,866 I came home exhausted I get home my wife is like 394 00:14:35,866 --> 00:14:37,600 how was the weekend I said it's great 395 00:14:37,733 --> 00:14:38,800 she said how are the guys 396 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,900 I said they're great she's like 397 00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:40,800 what's going on with them 398 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:41,500 I'm like they're great 399 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:42,200 she's like no 400 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:42,466 no no 401 00:14:42,466 --> 00:14:44,200 what's happening in their lives 402 00:14:44,433 --> 00:14:45,600 and I'm like they're great 403 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,500 she's like Todd 404 00:14:46,733 --> 00:14:48,133 am I speaking a different language 405 00:14:48,133 --> 00:14:50,200 what are they what's and Sean 406 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,333 I shit you not I spent 72 hours with these guys 407 00:14:53,333 --> 00:14:54,300 who I went to college with 408 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:57,200 I've known over 10 years and I didn't have a single 409 00:14:57,300 --> 00:15:00,400 moment of authentic connection with any of them 410 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,533 I could tell you who they drafted 411 00:15:01,533 --> 00:15:03,200 on their fantasy football team yeah 412 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,933 I could tell you if they're slicing the ball 413 00:15:05,933 --> 00:15:06,900 or if they're hooking the ball 414 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:09,333 but I couldn't tell you if they're having a hard time 415 00:15:09,333 --> 00:15:11,600 in their relationship with their significant other 416 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,833 I couldn't tell you if they're having a hard time with 417 00:15:14,933 --> 00:15:18,300 their their children as in their parenting journey 418 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:19,833 and then I just had 419 00:15:19,833 --> 00:15:21,866 I haven't had many light bulb moments in my life 420 00:15:21,866 --> 00:15:22,733 but I'm like holy shit 421 00:15:22,733 --> 00:15:25,800 if I spend the rest of my life 422 00:15:26,033 --> 00:15:27,533 with these types of relationships 423 00:15:27,533 --> 00:15:29,733 with other men where it's just shallow 424 00:15:29,733 --> 00:15:32,933 and sports and work and weather 425 00:15:32,933 --> 00:15:34,700 and don't get me wrong I love sports 426 00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:36,233 I watched the Bears game yesterday 427 00:15:36,266 --> 00:15:40,800 I I love um all these things that I used to love 428 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,133 but I also know that if this is all that it is 429 00:15:45,233 --> 00:15:46,533 then it's not gonna work for me 430 00:15:46,533 --> 00:15:48,633 because my wife will go out for three hours 431 00:15:48,633 --> 00:15:50,633 and connect deeply with her girlfriends 432 00:15:50,633 --> 00:15:51,666 and know everything 433 00:15:51,666 --> 00:15:54,400 and I had 72 hours and I got nothing done 434 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,900 so your question is how do we do it 435 00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:58,433 um first of all 436 00:15:58,633 --> 00:16:00,033 you already know how to do it 437 00:16:00,033 --> 00:16:03,033 we all know how to do it we used to be experts at this 438 00:16:03,033 --> 00:16:05,200 when we were 2 and 3 and 4 years old 439 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,433 when we got mad we banged on the ground 440 00:16:08,433 --> 00:16:12,033 when we got sad we cried our eyes out um 441 00:16:12,133 --> 00:16:15,766 when we got celebratory when we felt joy 442 00:16:15,833 --> 00:16:19,100 we celebrated we did all these things that uh 443 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,266 we did so we know how to do it 444 00:16:21,266 --> 00:16:23,533 we just gotta like get out of our own way 445 00:16:23,533 --> 00:16:25,433 we gotta remove all these barriers 446 00:16:25,433 --> 00:16:27,233 that we have put in front of us 447 00:16:27,233 --> 00:16:29,400 and our feelings and our heart center 448 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,433 so how do you do that you gotta name your feelings 449 00:16:33,433 --> 00:16:35,700 most guys don't even know how to name their feelings 450 00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:37,333 sure are you feeling mad 451 00:16:37,333 --> 00:16:38,633 hey how you feeling Jason 452 00:16:38,633 --> 00:16:39,933 um uh 453 00:16:39,933 --> 00:16:40,933 I'm mad oh 454 00:16:40,933 --> 00:16:41,833 you're mad 455 00:16:43,033 --> 00:16:44,733 is that a thought or is that a feeling 456 00:16:44,733 --> 00:16:45,400 well what do you mean 457 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,233 what's the difference well 458 00:16:46,233 --> 00:16:48,400 thought is just some concept in your brain 459 00:16:48,433 --> 00:16:49,733 but sometimes when we're mad 460 00:16:49,733 --> 00:16:52,100 we feel anger in our hands 461 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:54,466 yeah or we feel sadness in our throat 462 00:16:54,466 --> 00:16:56,233 or sometimes it comes out through 463 00:16:56,233 --> 00:16:58,033 water of our eyes 464 00:16:58,233 --> 00:17:01,666 and we really want to start tuning into our body 465 00:17:01,666 --> 00:17:03,333 experience um 466 00:17:03,333 --> 00:17:05,533 you know let's jump over to schooling for a second 467 00:17:05,533 --> 00:17:08,533 most parents spend most of their time um 468 00:17:08,533 --> 00:17:10,000 with the uh 469 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:12,333 with how smart their kids are yeah 470 00:17:12,333 --> 00:17:15,033 and we spend very little time with their emotions 471 00:17:15,333 --> 00:17:17,733 especially our young men um 472 00:17:17,733 --> 00:17:20,433 so there's IQ which I spend very little 473 00:17:20,433 --> 00:17:21,866 if any time with my daughters 474 00:17:21,866 --> 00:17:23,933 regarding how smart they are at their school 475 00:17:23,933 --> 00:17:24,700 that's their journey 476 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:26,733 I'm not gonna mess with their journey of schooling 477 00:17:26,733 --> 00:17:28,833 but we do invest a lot of our resources 478 00:17:28,866 --> 00:17:30,133 in how they're doing emotionally 479 00:17:30,133 --> 00:17:32,100 and how they can express it in a way 480 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:34,533 and can they derive the wisdom and the value 481 00:17:34,533 --> 00:17:36,033 of these feelings in their body 482 00:17:36,033 --> 00:17:39,166 and we as guys just shut that shit down way too early 483 00:17:39,166 --> 00:17:41,033 yeah I um 484 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,666 I'm blessed I guess with 485 00:17:43,666 --> 00:17:48,900 with a a very deeply feeling kid in my boy yes he 486 00:17:50,233 --> 00:17:52,333 man he feels things deeply if 487 00:17:52,333 --> 00:17:55,400 if somebody else is upset in the room 488 00:17:55,633 --> 00:17:58,333 he can feel their 489 00:17:59,233 --> 00:18:00,600 yeah there's sadness 490 00:18:00,933 --> 00:18:03,433 yeah and he'll begin to cry yeah 491 00:18:03,433 --> 00:18:06,966 and in a lot of ways 492 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:13,100 that can come off as maladaptive at his age 493 00:18:13,833 --> 00:18:18,000 and there's a reflex that I have 494 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,800 certainly having grown up the way that I grew up 495 00:18:22,833 --> 00:18:26,133 which by the way my childhood was freaking awesome yeah 496 00:18:26,133 --> 00:18:30,600 um but I wanna shut it down 497 00:18:30,666 --> 00:18:30,900 I I I 498 00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:34,566 I wanna I wanna make him laugh 499 00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:40,233 I wanna distract him and one time I 500 00:18:40,233 --> 00:18:42,800 I was doing that and I'm good at that 501 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,466 I deal with stress and 502 00:18:44,466 --> 00:18:48,566 and anger and all that stuff with humor 503 00:18:49,266 --> 00:18:52,466 and I deflect with humor a lot 504 00:18:52,466 --> 00:18:53,400 and so I'm 505 00:18:53,466 --> 00:18:58,433 I've got I've got 50 years of of skill in that yeah 506 00:18:58,433 --> 00:19:00,933 I call it conditioning and I don't know you 507 00:19:00,933 --> 00:19:02,466 I just met you for the first time 508 00:19:02,466 --> 00:19:03,900 um and first of all 509 00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:05,433 I want to own this I do this too 510 00:19:05,433 --> 00:19:07,833 and and I usually don't deflect with humor 511 00:19:07,833 --> 00:19:10,300 but when I'm feeling something'cause my guess is 512 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:14,466 when your son is crying in an empathetic way 513 00:19:14,466 --> 00:19:15,366 I'm guessing 514 00:19:15,433 --> 00:19:17,500 there's part of you that gets a little worried 515 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:19,233 you should probably get a little uncomfortable 516 00:19:19,233 --> 00:19:19,900 so yeah and I 517 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:22,600 I think I'm empathetic too 518 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,166 I think I feel his pain and I want the pain to go away 519 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:27,066 right 520 00:19:27,066 --> 00:19:30,200 and the pain is sometimes was some of our best teachers 521 00:19:30,266 --> 00:19:33,066 and my invitation to my clients and other guys 522 00:19:33,066 --> 00:19:34,633 and men living or whatever 523 00:19:34,833 --> 00:19:36,333 it's feel the feelings 524 00:19:36,333 --> 00:19:39,166 because a lot of guys will bypass their emotions 525 00:19:39,433 --> 00:19:41,100 and not feel it 526 00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,900 or invite their 6 year old son not to feel it instead 527 00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:45,633 like I'm so impressed 528 00:19:45,633 --> 00:19:48,100 how you're really feeling all your feelings right now 529 00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:49,733 and let that come all the way through 530 00:19:49,733 --> 00:19:51,066 now there's a balance too 531 00:19:51,066 --> 00:19:53,266 because your son can lose himself 532 00:19:53,266 --> 00:19:55,366 to other people's feelings also 533 00:19:55,366 --> 00:19:57,133 that's not healthy either 534 00:19:57,133 --> 00:19:58,266 now he's 6 years old and 535 00:19:58,266 --> 00:19:59,533 he's gonna have to navigate that 536 00:19:59,533 --> 00:20:01,300 of when to put up that boundary 537 00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,400 so that he can keep himself safe and not 538 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,166 not be um 539 00:20:06,233 --> 00:20:08,066 conditioned by the other 540 00:20:08,066 --> 00:20:09,933 who happens to be feeling something 541 00:20:09,933 --> 00:20:13,133 but in my judgment most of us guys are so shut off 542 00:20:13,133 --> 00:20:15,533 so shut down that we need to kind of 543 00:20:15,533 --> 00:20:17,400 come more towards where your son is right now 544 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,033 you definitely need to air on the other side of it 545 00:20:19,033 --> 00:20:20,600 that's exactly right yeah 546 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:21,400 I um 547 00:20:22,533 --> 00:20:24,900 with with respect to the men living thing 548 00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:25,700 it 549 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:27,100 you know 550 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:30,566 there used to be institutions in our culture that 551 00:20:30,833 --> 00:20:32,100 kind of took care of this a little bit 552 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:35,866 we had churches we went to work in person right 553 00:20:35,866 --> 00:20:36,933 we 554 00:20:37,833 --> 00:20:39,800 there was I don't know 555 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,600 clubs and 556 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,866 even a neighborhood bar that you might go to 557 00:20:43,866 --> 00:20:45,733 and hang out with the guys 558 00:20:45,733 --> 00:20:47,933 or you'd have bowling leagues or those sorts of things 559 00:20:47,933 --> 00:20:49,833 and those institutions are getting rooted 560 00:20:50,133 --> 00:20:55,666 yeah and what that means in my view is that it used 561 00:20:55,666 --> 00:20:57,800 you used to kind of by default 562 00:20:58,133 --> 00:21:01,400 have the outlets that you needed to have 563 00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:04,300 and that's not the case anymore 564 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:05,266 you now have to 565 00:21:05,266 --> 00:21:07,800 you now have to be a lot more intentional 566 00:21:08,133 --> 00:21:09,833 about how you're gonna get those things 567 00:21:09,833 --> 00:21:10,200 now 568 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,300 the positive aspect of that the benefit of that is you 569 00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:16,100 you get to be more intentional 570 00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:17,266 which means you can design 571 00:21:17,266 --> 00:21:19,266 exactly the experience you want 572 00:21:19,266 --> 00:21:21,133 as opposed to just OK 573 00:21:21,133 --> 00:21:21,600 I'm gonna go to 574 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,466 bowling league on Wednesdays and you know 575 00:21:24,466 --> 00:21:26,833 maybe we'll cry over some beers or something like that 576 00:21:26,833 --> 00:21:28,633 you can actually 577 00:21:29,066 --> 00:21:31,466 create the environment that you really want 578 00:21:31,466 --> 00:21:33,200 the downside is you have to do that 579 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,533 otherwise you won't have the environment 580 00:21:35,533 --> 00:21:37,100 and you won't connect emotionally 581 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,166 and I think that's partly what we're seeing 582 00:21:39,266 --> 00:21:42,066 as there's kind of a masculinity crisis in our culture 583 00:21:42,066 --> 00:21:43,733 is that men 584 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:45,600 we don't 585 00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:48,800 we don't really do anything like that for ourselves 586 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,500 that's actually what women do uniquely well yeah 587 00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:53,700 and I mean I 588 00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:55,366 I have friends whose 589 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,300 whose wives manage their personal calendars 590 00:21:58,300 --> 00:21:59,700 and so that happens well 591 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,633 your wife isn't gonna isn't gonna do that for you 592 00:22:02,833 --> 00:22:08,300 no and and some do and it's kind of sad 593 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:11,466 that's actually I can't speak for your experience Shawn 594 00:22:11,466 --> 00:22:14,733 but most of my experiences with other guys is 595 00:22:14,733 --> 00:22:16,966 they kind of lose a lot of their friends 596 00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:17,900 and they morph 597 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:20,100 themselves into the friendships of their wives 598 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:21,266 and their significant others yeah 599 00:22:21,266 --> 00:22:22,866 you're you're friends with the husbands 600 00:22:22,866 --> 00:22:24,300 of your wife's friends right 601 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:26,000 yeah and and to your point 602 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,700 you need to be intentional on how to do that and uh 603 00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:31,033 you sometimes you need to be creative 604 00:22:31,033 --> 00:22:32,300 I think it used to be easier 605 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:32,866 I think you're right 606 00:22:32,866 --> 00:22:34,200 the churches and the bowling leagues 607 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,600 when I started this organization 608 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,033 the only reason I started it 609 00:22:37,033 --> 00:22:39,000 is because I googled men's groups 610 00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:41,833 and all of them came up attached to a church 611 00:22:41,833 --> 00:22:43,233 now I grew up Roman Catholic 612 00:22:43,233 --> 00:22:45,566 I don't practice that religion anymore 613 00:22:45,733 --> 00:22:49,933 but I wanted this to be outside of any type of ideology 614 00:22:49,933 --> 00:22:52,666 so at Men Living we got Democrats 615 00:22:52,666 --> 00:22:53,833 Republicans Jews 616 00:22:53,833 --> 00:22:54,800 Muslims Christians 617 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,466 agnostics atheists like I 618 00:22:56,466 --> 00:22:58,066 the only thing I wanted us to have in common is 619 00:22:58,066 --> 00:22:59,033 we're both we're all men 620 00:22:59,033 --> 00:23:01,300 but I don't care if you're a Christian or an atheist 621 00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:02,700 or agnostic or anything like that 622 00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:05,933 so these institutions used to be put in place 623 00:23:05,933 --> 00:23:09,200 it was kind of more common and anybody who shows up 624 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,833 you know there's 4 billion men on this planet 625 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,733 and there is plenty of men's organizations 626 00:23:14,733 --> 00:23:16,366 that have plenty of capacity 627 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,000 and now that we have this ability 628 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,266 this technology in front of us 629 00:23:19,266 --> 00:23:22,766 to be able to connect on zoom or in person uh 630 00:23:23,033 --> 00:23:25,833 but you need to go look for it a little bit 631 00:23:25,833 --> 00:23:28,466 whereas back in the old days your buddy be like 632 00:23:28,466 --> 00:23:30,066 hey you wanna join a bowling league 633 00:23:30,066 --> 00:23:31,433 and you would just do that 634 00:23:31,433 --> 00:23:33,400 nowadays you don't have a buddy 635 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,133 who's asking you to join a bowling league 636 00:23:35,133 --> 00:23:37,533 you have to Google men's groups and go find one 637 00:23:37,533 --> 00:23:38,333 that's right um 638 00:23:38,533 --> 00:23:39,833 but it doesn't mean we can't do it 639 00:23:39,833 --> 00:23:41,800 but it requires a little bit of effort 640 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,833 and if we're as strong and as tough 641 00:23:43,833 --> 00:23:46,166 and as creative as we think we are as men 642 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:47,933 then we should be able to do this 643 00:23:47,933 --> 00:23:49,833 and before we press record today 644 00:23:49,833 --> 00:23:51,133 I wanna talk a little bit about the 645 00:23:51,133 --> 00:23:52,066 difference between the 646 00:23:52,066 --> 00:23:54,233 our female counterparts and all that 647 00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:56,866 I judge that our female counterparts 648 00:23:56,866 --> 00:23:58,800 the moms have had to adapt to 649 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,800 what I would consider patriarchal culture 650 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,933 doesn't mean men are bad it just means that 651 00:24:02,933 --> 00:24:05,300 we live in a system where most of the power 652 00:24:05,433 --> 00:24:08,533 resides in people who identify as men 653 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:09,233 and our 654 00:24:09,233 --> 00:24:13,133 our female counterparts have adapted to that system 655 00:24:13,233 --> 00:24:15,933 and now it's our turn as guys to adapt 656 00:24:15,933 --> 00:24:17,400 because there are certain things 657 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,233 us boys are getting left behind 658 00:24:19,233 --> 00:24:21,866 we are not on girls are more 659 00:24:21,866 --> 00:24:23,700 there's more girls in college now 660 00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:26,600 boys have more behavioral issues in grade school 661 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,066 like there's all this data to show that 662 00:24:29,066 --> 00:24:31,600 it's hard to be a man because it is 663 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,733 because our factory jobs are going away 664 00:24:33,833 --> 00:24:35,733 jobs in the field are going away 665 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,466 and there's all these openings of pink jobs 666 00:24:38,466 --> 00:24:39,433 you know teaching 667 00:24:39,433 --> 00:24:42,500 social worker nursing and all this other stuff right 668 00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:44,566 and it's our turn to adapt 669 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,233 and instead of us adapting collectively 670 00:24:47,433 --> 00:24:48,333 we're just saying oh 671 00:24:48,333 --> 00:24:49,466 isn't it hard being a guy 672 00:24:49,466 --> 00:24:49,866 like yeah 673 00:24:49,866 --> 00:24:52,200 it's hard being a guy and it's also hard being a girl 674 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,433 so let's figure out how to be a guy in this world 675 00:24:54,433 --> 00:24:57,066 and maybe it means that you might be a social worker 676 00:24:57,066 --> 00:24:58,600 instead of a factory worker 677 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,233 but we have the capacity to do it 678 00:25:00,233 --> 00:25:02,300 so going down a rabbit hole here 679 00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:03,600 but just want to throw that out there 680 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:03,933 yeah I 681 00:25:03,933 --> 00:25:05,633 I think that's exactly right 682 00:25:05,633 --> 00:25:06,733 and 683 00:25:07,466 --> 00:25:08,266 you know 684 00:25:08,733 --> 00:25:09,833 there's nothing wrong with that 685 00:25:09,833 --> 00:25:14,833 and the people who resist change are hardly ever 686 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:17,100 hardly ever have great lives 687 00:25:17,733 --> 00:25:18,700 right you know 688 00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:21,500 embracing change is the way forward 689 00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:23,800 and that doesn't mean that all change is great 690 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,733 and that doesn't mean that you can't 691 00:25:26,266 --> 00:25:28,433 influence it in a way that 692 00:25:29,233 --> 00:25:30,666 it helps you yeah 693 00:25:30,666 --> 00:25:32,333 but you know 694 00:25:32,333 --> 00:25:34,700 by by sticking your head in the sand 695 00:25:34,733 --> 00:25:38,100 and wishing things were different 696 00:25:38,666 --> 00:25:40,600 you're not gonna get anywhere yeah 697 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,366 and by the way you're not gonna teach your kids that 698 00:25:44,933 --> 00:25:47,300 that how to how to react in the world 699 00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:48,100 unless 700 00:25:48,233 --> 00:25:50,533 what you're hoping to do is provide a counter example 701 00:25:50,833 --> 00:25:52,700 that's exactly where I was gonna go 702 00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:54,633 as far as how do we teach our sons to do this 703 00:25:54,633 --> 00:25:56,533 so if you're in a traditional household 704 00:25:56,533 --> 00:25:59,033 where it's abandoned a woman um 705 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,133 is the is your son and your daughter seeing 706 00:26:03,233 --> 00:26:05,833 you know the husband wash the dishes 707 00:26:05,833 --> 00:26:08,800 is the husband maybe it's a stay at home dad 708 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:09,466 yeah like 709 00:26:09,466 --> 00:26:12,233 are we teaching our kids that being a man 710 00:26:12,233 --> 00:26:14,300 doesn't mean it's just one track 711 00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:15,933 it could be all these different things 712 00:26:15,933 --> 00:26:17,600 and um 713 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,900 in in a lot of cases out there 714 00:26:19,933 --> 00:26:22,233 um there's this term that we use on the podcast 715 00:26:22,233 --> 00:26:23,500 called the emotional labor 716 00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:24,833 I don't know if you're familiar with it 717 00:26:24,833 --> 00:26:27,033 but it's the labor that it takes 718 00:26:27,033 --> 00:26:29,300 the emotional labor it takes to run a household 719 00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:32,200 yeah and my wife is the CEO of our household 720 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,400 whether it's right or wrong 721 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,133 I have the same deal that's right 722 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,300 and then I used to say stupid stuff like 723 00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:38,900 you know what honey 724 00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:40,566 just tell me what to do and I'll do it 725 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,466 and the problem with that is my wife doesn't want 726 00:26:44,466 --> 00:26:45,500 we already have three children 727 00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:46,266 yeah now she yeah 728 00:26:46,266 --> 00:26:47,700 the monkey's on her back still 729 00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:48,800 I'm like okay 730 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,333 well just treat me like your fourth child 731 00:26:50,333 --> 00:26:51,733 and tell me what to do and she's like no 732 00:26:51,733 --> 00:26:53,466 I want you to meet me where I am 733 00:26:53,466 --> 00:26:55,200 I want you to initiate 734 00:26:55,233 --> 00:26:56,866 the scheduling of the dentist appointments 735 00:26:56,866 --> 00:26:58,100 or the doctor appointments 736 00:26:58,100 --> 00:26:59,800 or hold space for your daughter 737 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:01,633 who just had a bad day at school 738 00:27:01,633 --> 00:27:02,233 instead of be like oh 739 00:27:02,233 --> 00:27:03,466 I'm not that good at feeling stuff 740 00:27:03,466 --> 00:27:04,500 so I'll just let mom do it 741 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,066 so that's the emotional labor part of it 742 00:27:07,066 --> 00:27:10,633 and there's too many of us guys that are being like oh 743 00:27:10,633 --> 00:27:12,633 I'm just not that's just not my way 744 00:27:12,633 --> 00:27:13,500 I'm just not good at that 745 00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,866 but if they want to talk about 746 00:27:14,866 --> 00:27:16,666 you know money and finance and all that 747 00:27:16,666 --> 00:27:18,033 I'll help but if it's about emotions 748 00:27:18,033 --> 00:27:19,500 that's their that's the mom's job 749 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:20,500 and yeah uh 750 00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:21,633 we need to lean into that 751 00:27:21,633 --> 00:27:23,200 we need to have those conversations 752 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:24,500 yeah there's a 753 00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:26,500 there's a a kind of a 754 00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:29,000 a deck of cards going around called Fair Play 755 00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:30,600 and it gets a it 756 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,000 it gets a lot of 757 00:27:33,133 --> 00:27:35,066 there there are some very polarized views 758 00:27:35,066 --> 00:27:37,333 about what fair play is but one of the 759 00:27:37,333 --> 00:27:39,200 one of the concepts that I think is really 760 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,700 really really powerful um 761 00:27:41,700 --> 00:27:45,233 in that is of total ownership 762 00:27:45,233 --> 00:27:47,200 so what it does is it is it creates 763 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,300 there are a bunch of cards that are 764 00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:51,933 you know things that you can own in the household 765 00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:53,600 one of the big criticisms is that 766 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,800 there aren't enough cards that for for yeah 767 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,866 men stuff it's mostly geared towards women and I 768 00:27:59,866 --> 00:28:02,233 and that's a criticism I actually kind of agree with 769 00:28:02,466 --> 00:28:03,300 yeah um 770 00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:07,600 but the key thing there is that 771 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,133 if you're going to take ownership of a card 772 00:28:09,133 --> 00:28:11,500 you own the card fully 773 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:13,900 you're responsible for every aspect of it 774 00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:15,666 from beginning to end 775 00:28:15,666 --> 00:28:18,400 that taking responsibility for the thing 776 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,466 whatever the thing is is a really 777 00:28:20,466 --> 00:28:23,500 really really powerful concept and and 778 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:25,666 and it's important to be able to say 779 00:28:25,666 --> 00:28:27,133 you know to my wife okay 780 00:28:27,133 --> 00:28:29,400 I have this and so you know 781 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,133 one of the things I own in our family is um 782 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,133 if someone has to get up in the middle of the night 783 00:28:35,133 --> 00:28:35,633 it has 784 00:28:35,633 --> 00:28:39,666 it's gonna be me because I fall asleep really easily 785 00:28:39,666 --> 00:28:41,933 my wife does not and so 786 00:28:41,933 --> 00:28:44,133 she wakes up at 2:00 in the morning to 787 00:28:44,133 --> 00:28:47,600 take a kid to the bathroom then um 788 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,033 it really disturbs her sleep 789 00:28:49,033 --> 00:28:51,200 and she has a real hard time the next day 790 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,866 but if I wake up at 2:00 in the morning to take a kid 791 00:28:53,866 --> 00:28:55,700 to the bathroom I go right back to sleep 792 00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:57,800 and it's not as disruptive to me 793 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,233 still disruptive I don't wanna have to do it 794 00:29:00,333 --> 00:29:03,466 but it's just way easier for me than it is for her 795 00:29:03,466 --> 00:29:06,433 so that's one of the things I own in the family 796 00:29:06,433 --> 00:29:08,333 and so that means I'm really proactive 797 00:29:08,333 --> 00:29:09,966 if I hear something 798 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,100 I'm trying to make sure that she's resting 799 00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:14,833 the whole the whole point is that she gets to rest 800 00:29:14,833 --> 00:29:16,400 through the potential disruption 801 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,000 and I take it on and 802 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,033 and that's that's a really 803 00:29:21,033 --> 00:29:21,933 really useful concept 804 00:29:21,933 --> 00:29:23,900 taking full ownership of the thing 805 00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:26,033 so that the monkey isn't on her back 806 00:29:26,033 --> 00:29:28,500 in spite of the fact that she's the CEO of the house 807 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:29,666 and ostensibly she's 808 00:29:29,666 --> 00:29:31,533 responsible for making sure that the kids aren't 809 00:29:31,533 --> 00:29:32,600 freaking out in the middle of the night 810 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:33,766 and don't pee in their beds 811 00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,400 but that's still my it's my task 812 00:29:37,833 --> 00:29:39,500 yeah and that goes out to communication 813 00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:42,000 and it's pretty simple and how many of us 814 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,633 including me sometimes I'm just making the Assumption 815 00:29:44,633 --> 00:29:44,900 oh well 816 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:46,633 that's that's her job and she knows it 817 00:29:46,633 --> 00:29:48,200 or she's assuming that's my job 818 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,600 and I know it and I don't right 819 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,666 so communication is funny 820 00:29:51,666 --> 00:29:53,400 and I think it's interesting that you talk 821 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,400 I've never heard of those cards 822 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,200 but I kind of like them 823 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,533 and it sounds like what you're saying is 824 00:29:57,633 --> 00:30:00,633 there's way too many what I would say can um 825 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,466 conventionally female jobs and not enough 826 00:30:03,466 --> 00:30:04,800 and like what are like the male jobs 827 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,400 cleaning out the garage and mowing the lawn 828 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,733 like is that yeah yeah 829 00:30:07,733 --> 00:30:09,266 going to work or whatever the thing yeah 830 00:30:09,266 --> 00:30:10,066 exactly 831 00:30:11,033 --> 00:30:12,666 and I've had so many conversations 832 00:30:12,666 --> 00:30:14,266 with the guys about this and it's really interesting 833 00:30:14,266 --> 00:30:15,733 and you know what is 834 00:30:15,733 --> 00:30:18,466 there's no such thing as a female job or a male job 835 00:30:18,466 --> 00:30:20,566 we have the capacity for both 836 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:22,666 so that's interesting so yeah 837 00:30:22,666 --> 00:30:24,233 and I think you know 838 00:30:24,233 --> 00:30:26,500 if I were to steal man 839 00:30:26,733 --> 00:30:30,200 the position of the advocates of the system 840 00:30:30,833 --> 00:30:31,900 what you're trying to do is 841 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:33,500 raise awareness to all the invisible 842 00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:34,833 things that happen in the household 843 00:30:34,900 --> 00:30:36,500 that nobody gets credit for 844 00:30:36,533 --> 00:30:38,233 and that you know obviously 845 00:30:38,233 --> 00:30:38,433 you know 846 00:30:38,433 --> 00:30:41,400 typically and historically the women have to do and 847 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,733 and so alright 848 00:30:42,733 --> 00:30:45,300 well let's document those things um 849 00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:46,633 I think that you know 850 00:30:46,633 --> 00:30:47,633 it's reasonable to say oh 851 00:30:47,633 --> 00:30:49,000 well there are also things that 852 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,400 that men do around the house that 853 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,533 that aren't recognize either okay fine 854 00:30:54,533 --> 00:30:56,266 let's create cards for all those things it's 855 00:30:56,266 --> 00:30:59,400 it's great the whole point is to recognize 856 00:30:59,433 --> 00:31:02,333 all of the activity that you end up doing 857 00:31:02,433 --> 00:31:04,033 that isn't appreciated 858 00:31:04,033 --> 00:31:07,066 and if you both if the exercise is oh 859 00:31:07,066 --> 00:31:08,466 we're gonna come together 860 00:31:08,466 --> 00:31:10,133 and define all of these things 861 00:31:10,133 --> 00:31:13,233 and name them and then claim ownership of them 862 00:31:13,233 --> 00:31:15,266 and recognize that we can pass them off 863 00:31:15,266 --> 00:31:16,833 and who owns what and all this stuff 864 00:31:16,833 --> 00:31:18,833 that's a healthy thing to do if it becomes 865 00:31:18,833 --> 00:31:19,333 this way 866 00:31:19,333 --> 00:31:21,600 to battle about who's doing more for the family 867 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:22,400 or whatever 868 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,500 well then it becomes pretty ugly and I think 869 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:27,833 I think that has happened a lot and it 870 00:31:27,833 --> 00:31:28,333 it really 871 00:31:28,333 --> 00:31:34,233 I think it points a mag a magnifying glass at the um 872 00:31:34,433 --> 00:31:36,800 at the communication capabilities of the 873 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,133 of the of the relationship and 874 00:31:39,133 --> 00:31:41,566 you know that can be bad and that can be good 875 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:43,033 um it's interesting 876 00:31:43,033 --> 00:31:44,033 it reminds me of a story 877 00:31:44,033 --> 00:31:46,266 so for each of my daughter's birthdays 878 00:31:46,266 --> 00:31:47,133 we'd have a birthday party 879 00:31:47,133 --> 00:31:49,333 we have family over and I do a video 880 00:31:49,333 --> 00:31:51,233 so what I do is I take you know 881 00:31:51,233 --> 00:31:52,466 pictures and videos from the year 882 00:31:52,466 --> 00:31:54,433 I set it to music and then we all watch it 883 00:31:54,433 --> 00:31:56,266 while we're eating cake and ice cream 884 00:31:56,266 --> 00:31:58,333 that's spectacular I love that 885 00:31:58,333 --> 00:32:00,300 I'm I'm gonna steal that idea 886 00:32:00,466 --> 00:32:01,100 please do 887 00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:02,933 and I've been doing it for my oldest daughters 888 00:32:02,933 --> 00:32:04,433 I think I stopped when she went to college 889 00:32:04,433 --> 00:32:06,933 so I did so for the first 18 years of her life wow 890 00:32:06,933 --> 00:32:08,700 I have a video for every single year 891 00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,533 what's interesting is one year in particular uh 892 00:32:11,533 --> 00:32:12,466 I did the video 893 00:32:12,466 --> 00:32:14,100 and then everybody claps at the end of the video 894 00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:16,166 it's just kind of like a kind courteous thing 895 00:32:16,233 --> 00:32:17,100 and then like 896 00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:19,300 I think my mother in law who was alive at the time 897 00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:20,200 she's like oh my god 898 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,000 isn't Todd the best 899 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,200 doesn't he do such a great job with those videos 900 00:32:23,233 --> 00:32:25,300 and my wife was supportive of me 901 00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:27,000 but at the same time she's like okay 902 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,900 just so you guys all know I decided on the date 903 00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:31,166 I created the invitations 904 00:32:31,233 --> 00:32:33,666 I went and got the cake I wrapped all the presents 905 00:32:33,666 --> 00:32:35,233 I made sure you're all gonna be there 906 00:32:35,233 --> 00:32:38,000 she did like 12 different things to get this party 907 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:40,066 I did this one little thing 908 00:32:40,066 --> 00:32:42,600 and I'm the one getting the accolades 909 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,700 and everybody's so absolutely yeah 910 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:48,000 and and cause all that other stuff is invisible well 911 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,200 I mean of course you did those things that's yeah yeah 912 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,866 and she deserves she deserves recognition for that yeah 913 00:32:53,866 --> 00:32:57,033 I love that you know I I feel like you and Kathy 914 00:32:57,666 --> 00:33:03,300 uh model really strong partnership and you know 915 00:33:03,300 --> 00:33:04,666 how how do you look at that 916 00:33:04,666 --> 00:33:07,200 and how do you how does a healthy parenting 917 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,633 partnership influence the way that our kids 918 00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:15,566 understand their roles how boys understand masculinity 919 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,900 respect emotional safety 920 00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:18,000 what do you think about that 921 00:33:18,300 --> 00:33:20,266 um first thing 922 00:33:20,266 --> 00:33:24,100 you know I have a really really good marriage and um 923 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,800 I have an amazing partner 924 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,933 and I think she would say that she has an amazing 925 00:33:27,933 --> 00:33:28,933 amazing partner 926 00:33:29,100 --> 00:33:31,666 and a lot of people sometimes ask us like 927 00:33:31,666 --> 00:33:32,333 what's the secret 928 00:33:32,333 --> 00:33:34,333 cause it seems like so easy for you to and by the way 929 00:33:34,333 --> 00:33:35,833 it's not always easy as a matter of fact 930 00:33:35,833 --> 00:33:37,500 upstairs we just kind of had 931 00:33:37,666 --> 00:33:39,133 she didn't feel like I was meeting her needs 932 00:33:39,133 --> 00:33:40,266 because something's going on this 933 00:33:40,266 --> 00:33:42,500 week and all that so it's never it's never perfect 934 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:43,866 but literally in this moment 935 00:33:43,866 --> 00:33:47,300 like we're in a a little bit of a teeny tiny rupture 936 00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:48,400 which happens from time to time 937 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:49,766 absolutely um 938 00:33:50,133 --> 00:33:53,066 but one thing I think both Kathy and I have in common 939 00:33:53,066 --> 00:33:54,866 is that we do our own work 940 00:33:54,866 --> 00:33:57,500 what does that mean personal growth work therapy 941 00:33:57,733 --> 00:33:59,300 reading books listening to podcast 942 00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:02,200 talking to friends investigating my own reactivity 943 00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:03,633 investigating my childhood 944 00:34:03,633 --> 00:34:06,600 patterns of why I do things that are no longer helpful 945 00:34:06,633 --> 00:34:09,066 so that's the one thing that we both do 946 00:34:09,066 --> 00:34:10,100 and it wasn't always like that 947 00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:12,333 she was always this personal growth freak 948 00:34:12,333 --> 00:34:13,300 where she's reading books 949 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:16,500 and she's in therapy and she's seeing an energy worker 950 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:17,433 and she's doing all this stuff 951 00:34:17,433 --> 00:34:21,100 and I was just a guy who worked and brought home money 952 00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:22,466 and I didn't do anything else 953 00:34:22,466 --> 00:34:23,933 and I had this moment like 954 00:34:24,133 --> 00:34:26,800 if I am going to grow with this woman 955 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,433 I need to get on the train 956 00:34:28,433 --> 00:34:31,433 otherwise she's gonna just go right past me 957 00:34:31,433 --> 00:34:32,133 so yeah 958 00:34:32,133 --> 00:34:36,400 the one thing I would say is the the secret to our uh 959 00:34:36,433 --> 00:34:37,633 marriage which is really 960 00:34:37,633 --> 00:34:40,266 really good is we're both working on ourselves 961 00:34:40,266 --> 00:34:42,333 and the other which is a big thing 962 00:34:42,333 --> 00:34:44,600 it's the ability to navigate conflict 963 00:34:44,733 --> 00:34:46,900 we all have these different conflict styles 964 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,800 I you know there's fight there's freeze 965 00:34:49,833 --> 00:34:52,466 there's flee and then there's one called fawning 966 00:34:52,466 --> 00:34:53,866 I happen to be a fanner 967 00:34:53,866 --> 00:34:56,933 so interesting when my wife is upset with me 968 00:34:56,933 --> 00:34:58,700 I get really small and I become like 969 00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:59,633 a little puppy dog 970 00:34:59,633 --> 00:35:03,133 that just wants to be back in the good graces of her 971 00:35:03,133 --> 00:35:05,033 and I want her to love me and I want her to tell 972 00:35:05,033 --> 00:35:07,233 tell me she loves me that way I feel good about myself 973 00:35:07,433 --> 00:35:09,866 that's my conflict style and I'm working on it 974 00:35:09,866 --> 00:35:12,466 and I try to own it and I try not to show up that way 975 00:35:12,466 --> 00:35:14,200 but we all have different conflict styles 976 00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,400 and we're not taught this stuff in school 977 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,633 we're taught all this ridiculous stuff of 978 00:35:21,633 --> 00:35:23,466 and I honor science and math 979 00:35:23,466 --> 00:35:26,200 and history and geography and all that 980 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,900 but wouldn't it be great if we each had a class 981 00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:31,033 in how to navigate conflict styles 982 00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:32,500 maybe when we're in second grade 983 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,266 8th grade high school and one in college 984 00:35:34,266 --> 00:35:36,833 because the only reason I know about is 985 00:35:36,833 --> 00:35:37,933 cause I read books on 986 00:35:37,933 --> 00:35:40,100 experts on how to navigate conflict in a healthy way 987 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:43,533 and by the way conflict is a really healthy thing 988 00:35:43,533 --> 00:35:45,800 I actually grow closer to my wife 989 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,466 when we resolve our conflict in a conscious way 990 00:35:48,466 --> 00:35:50,266 much more than we would have had 991 00:35:50,266 --> 00:35:51,700 the conflict never happened in the beginning 992 00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:54,433 so conflict although it's uncomfortable and scary 993 00:35:54,433 --> 00:35:59,633 it's a wonderful tool to to bring together 994 00:35:59,633 --> 00:36:02,433 um love and connection in a way 995 00:36:02,433 --> 00:36:04,233 because if we just kind of like 996 00:36:04,233 --> 00:36:05,033 tolerate each other 997 00:36:05,033 --> 00:36:06,633 and we stay out of each other's way 998 00:36:06,633 --> 00:36:08,533 and we avoid all that conflict 999 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,500 that is not the type of marriage I wanna be in 1000 00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:14,033 I wanna be in a marriage that's alive and dynamic 1001 00:36:14,033 --> 00:36:16,666 not one that's kind of hollow and surfacey 1002 00:36:16,666 --> 00:36:18,433 so that would be my two answers 1003 00:36:18,433 --> 00:36:19,200 do your own work 1004 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,433 and understand how to navigate conflict yeah 1005 00:36:21,433 --> 00:36:25,500 my own experience my wife and I have kind of a 1006 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,066 I don't know that I would call it a manifesto 1007 00:36:29,066 --> 00:36:31,733 or anything but it's a 1008 00:36:31,733 --> 00:36:33,700 maybe a tagline and our 1009 00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:34,500 what our 1010 00:36:34,500 --> 00:36:37,933 what our marriage is about is we're trying to create a 1011 00:36:37,933 --> 00:36:41,100 lives of excellence and joy 1012 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,033 and 1013 00:36:44,533 --> 00:36:49,333 and one of the things that comes with that is 1014 00:36:49,333 --> 00:36:50,766 there's a lot of struggle 1015 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:53,633 and I remember you know 1016 00:36:53,633 --> 00:36:56,433 recently we've had some really 1017 00:36:56,433 --> 00:36:58,466 really really severe struggles that 1018 00:36:58,466 --> 00:37:00,700 just kind of working through some stuff 1019 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:03,533 and we've got young kids and all of that 1020 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:08,200 and it feels tough it feels really 1021 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,333 really really tough 1022 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,733 and you know 1023 00:37:12,733 --> 00:37:16,033 maybe you're thinking it's not even worth it sometimes 1024 00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:18,800 and then we look around 1025 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,933 and we see a bunch of other couples that seem 1026 00:37:22,533 --> 00:37:23,600 like they're 1027 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:25,400 way happier than us 1028 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,500 but they have really severe problems 1029 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:33,400 like how is it that we feel so concerned about 1030 00:37:33,433 --> 00:37:35,866 you know this relatively minor thing 1031 00:37:35,866 --> 00:37:38,433 where these other people have gaping holes 1032 00:37:38,433 --> 00:37:41,300 in their foundations and they go on like they why 1033 00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:43,433 how do they have easier lives than we do 1034 00:37:43,533 --> 00:37:46,600 and the reason is because we really 1035 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,700 we obsess over those things 1036 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,500 and we want them to be good 1037 00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:51,833 and we want them to be excellent 1038 00:37:51,833 --> 00:37:53,366 and we want them to be perfect 1039 00:37:53,433 --> 00:37:57,600 and yeah I mean if you don't care what 1040 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,433 you know your lives look like 1041 00:38:00,433 --> 00:38:04,133 then it's a little easier to be happy go lucky 1042 00:38:04,133 --> 00:38:05,533 but that's not gonna 1043 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,033 and you up where you wanna go 1044 00:38:08,666 --> 00:38:10,466 and but man 1045 00:38:10,466 --> 00:38:12,033 it's hard yeah 1046 00:38:12,033 --> 00:38:12,833 it's funny I 1047 00:38:12,833 --> 00:38:14,866 my wife and I have had the exact same conversations 1048 00:38:14,866 --> 00:38:16,600 like are we making this harder on ourselves 1049 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,133 than it needs to be but I think that there's an and 1050 00:38:19,133 --> 00:38:20,600 and I don't know this to be true 1051 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,433 but my guess is that there's an invisible um 1052 00:38:24,433 --> 00:38:27,433 withdrawal of energy for the happy go lucky years 1053 00:38:27,433 --> 00:38:29,500 I think that there's something hidden 1054 00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:31,833 yeah and if you 1055 00:38:31,833 --> 00:38:34,700 if I am not dealing with problems 1056 00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:36,100 challenges situations 1057 00:38:36,433 --> 00:38:39,533 and instead of me drinking a few beers 1058 00:38:39,533 --> 00:38:41,266 or me just going out with the guys 1059 00:38:41,266 --> 00:38:43,433 and not resolving something with my wife yeah 1060 00:38:43,533 --> 00:38:45,466 um in the short term 1061 00:38:45,466 --> 00:38:47,700 I think that that's a really smart strategy 1062 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:48,966 but in the long term 1063 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,533 that is just a recipe for disconnection yeah 1064 00:38:52,533 --> 00:38:53,333 so I I 1065 00:38:53,333 --> 00:38:54,600 I first of all 1066 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,866 I totally resonate with what you just said 1067 00:38:56,866 --> 00:38:58,933 like these people seem happier 1068 00:38:58,933 --> 00:39:01,733 and they don't complicate their lives 1069 00:39:01,733 --> 00:39:03,866 the way you and I are complicating it with each other 1070 00:39:03,866 --> 00:39:05,300 yeah so uh 1071 00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:09,000 but I also know that there's this life force in me 1072 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:10,733 that is uh 1073 00:39:10,733 --> 00:39:12,900 that grows when I'm dealing 1074 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:14,900 with authenticity vulnerability 1075 00:39:14,900 --> 00:39:16,033 yeah um 1076 00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:18,233 challenges conflicts 1077 00:39:18,233 --> 00:39:20,433 and not escaping so yeah 1078 00:39:20,633 --> 00:39:21,800 yeah I 1079 00:39:21,833 --> 00:39:24,100 and you know what the other thing is 1080 00:39:24,733 --> 00:39:26,766 is maybe those other people are right 1081 00:39:27,466 --> 00:39:29,233 um and maybe their lives are great 1082 00:39:29,233 --> 00:39:30,933 and maybe it's easier also 1083 00:39:30,933 --> 00:39:32,933 and maybe that's the way to be 1084 00:39:32,933 --> 00:39:36,466 it's just not the way I'm gonna be yeah 1085 00:39:36,466 --> 00:39:37,700 it just doesn't work for me yeah 1086 00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:39,133 like keep doing your thing 1087 00:39:39,133 --> 00:39:41,433 yeah but I'm not wired that way right 1088 00:39:41,433 --> 00:39:43,833 I gotta deal with this the way I deal with it right 1089 00:39:43,833 --> 00:39:44,633 and you know 1090 00:39:44,633 --> 00:39:46,066 just the idea of the comparison 1091 00:39:46,066 --> 00:39:48,266 I have the same comparison in me 1092 00:39:48,266 --> 00:39:49,200 yeah and it's 1093 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,066 there's not a whole lot of uh 1094 00:39:51,066 --> 00:39:53,633 benefits from comparing our story to somebody else's 1095 00:39:53,633 --> 00:39:55,800 but we also have to honor the one in us 1096 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,200 that's right that does compare yeah yeah 1097 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,600 it helps you kind of get a baseline but 1098 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:01,433 but sure but yeah 1099 00:40:01,433 --> 00:40:02,600 I mean there's no 1100 00:40:02,666 --> 00:40:04,366 you know yeah 1101 00:40:04,466 --> 00:40:04,866 you know 1102 00:40:04,866 --> 00:40:09,133 where in your work and especially with men living 1103 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,866 where do you see dads getting stuck most often 1104 00:40:12,866 --> 00:40:14,833 and what helps them move forward 1105 00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:18,133 well some of this 1106 00:40:18,133 --> 00:40:19,100 what I just said to you 1107 00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:21,833 I think the minute that we feel some type of discomfort 1108 00:40:21,833 --> 00:40:24,100 we try to escape from it as guys yeah 1109 00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:24,466 I think like 1110 00:40:24,466 --> 00:40:28,066 the only emotion that we're allowed to feel is anger 1111 00:40:28,066 --> 00:40:28,666 when in fact 1112 00:40:28,666 --> 00:40:31,800 there's all these other emotions that are cooking 1113 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,700 inside of our body if we can name it locate 1114 00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:37,033 it express it so for me 1115 00:40:37,033 --> 00:40:39,266 like at men Living we have these five suggestions 1116 00:40:39,266 --> 00:40:41,300 so I'll go more go over them real quick 1117 00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:44,133 men living consciously so what does conscious mean 1118 00:40:44,133 --> 00:40:45,066 conscious just means 1119 00:40:45,066 --> 00:40:46,933 am I aware what's going on in my body 1120 00:40:46,933 --> 00:40:48,966 in my surroundings without judgment 1121 00:40:49,333 --> 00:40:51,500 it's a really hard thing to do to live consciously 1122 00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:53,066 by the way it's something I aim to do 1123 00:40:53,066 --> 00:40:54,066 most of the time I'm not 1124 00:40:54,066 --> 00:40:55,700 but I know that's what I'm aiming for 1125 00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:57,500 men living consciously No. 2 1126 00:40:57,500 --> 00:41:00,433 men living curiously can I let go of the need to be 1127 00:41:00,433 --> 00:41:04,133 right in an argument or at work or with my kid 1128 00:41:04,133 --> 00:41:05,900 and instead take my hat off 1129 00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:07,700 and then try to put their hat on 1130 00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:09,400 and see the world through their lens 1131 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,900 that's men living curiously 1132 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,133 the third one which is the one I like the best 1133 00:41:13,133 --> 00:41:14,233 men living emotionally 1134 00:41:14,233 --> 00:41:17,266 because we have so much work to do on this 1135 00:41:17,266 --> 00:41:19,433 the only emotion we're allowed to feel is anger 1136 00:41:19,433 --> 00:41:20,200 yeah um 1137 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,733 I the fact that your son 1138 00:41:21,733 --> 00:41:24,500 your 6 year old boy 6 year old boy is an empath 1139 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,033 my ask for you is just nurture that as best you can 1140 00:41:28,033 --> 00:41:29,500 as long as you can 1141 00:41:29,633 --> 00:41:31,966 one story I like to tell is I was watching 1142 00:41:32,066 --> 00:41:34,400 I was at the movie theater in my neighborhood 1143 00:41:34,466 --> 00:41:35,866 and there's these two boys 1144 00:41:35,866 --> 00:41:37,700 probably 4 years old maybe 5 1145 00:41:37,700 --> 00:41:38,933 and they were holding hands 1146 00:41:38,933 --> 00:41:41,300 two boys holding hands and for me 1147 00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:44,400 I'm just like my heart just gets filled up like they 1148 00:41:44,666 --> 00:41:46,600 they don't know what homophobia is 1149 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,133 they don't know any of that stuff 1150 00:41:48,133 --> 00:41:51,000 and I honestly started crying a little bit like 1151 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,400 and the reason I cried was because 1152 00:41:53,466 --> 00:41:55,600 I loved what they were doing 1153 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:56,500 and showing 1154 00:41:56,500 --> 00:41:58,966 and I know the minute they get into first grade 1155 00:41:59,033 --> 00:42:01,733 some kids gonna be like are you gay or whatever 1156 00:42:01,733 --> 00:42:05,500 and it just makes me so sad to think that so um 1157 00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:10,233 our sons are emotional until they get to school and 1158 00:42:10,233 --> 00:42:10,600 you know 1159 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,000 billboards and TV and movies grab a hold of them so 1160 00:42:14,266 --> 00:42:16,300 but we have to control what we can control 1161 00:42:16,300 --> 00:42:18,200 and what we can control is um 1162 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:20,133 how we show up in relationship 1163 00:42:20,133 --> 00:42:23,100 can our son see that we're emotional 1164 00:42:23,100 --> 00:42:25,100 can our sons see that we're vulnerable 1165 00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:26,733 can our sons see that we're scared 1166 00:42:26,733 --> 00:42:28,400 that we're mad that we're happy 1167 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,033 us guys aren't very good at expressing happiness 1168 00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:33,233 unless our sports team is winning 1169 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:34,033 what about 1170 00:42:34,033 --> 00:42:36,466 what about all the other times when we're having happy 1171 00:42:36,466 --> 00:42:40,033 but we're too cool to to look out of control and happy 1172 00:42:41,033 --> 00:42:43,866 so yeah so men living emotionally um 1173 00:42:43,866 --> 00:42:46,100 is the third one men living candidly 1174 00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:49,133 which is can I can I speak from a place of truth 1175 00:42:49,133 --> 00:42:50,133 with love and compassion 1176 00:42:50,133 --> 00:42:52,733 and can I listen compassionately 1177 00:42:52,833 --> 00:42:54,066 which is really hard thing to do 1178 00:42:54,066 --> 00:42:56,100 and then lastly is men living intentionally 1179 00:42:56,100 --> 00:42:58,100 where are you where do you wanna go 1180 00:42:58,233 --> 00:42:59,400 and are you taking the steps 1181 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:00,700 to get to where you wanna go 1182 00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:01,666 do you have any intention 1183 00:43:01,666 --> 00:43:03,633 so man that is 1184 00:43:03,633 --> 00:43:05,433 that is a fantastic list I 1185 00:43:05,433 --> 00:43:05,966 I 1186 00:43:05,966 --> 00:43:08,566 the end of that story with my son 1187 00:43:08,633 --> 00:43:12,900 me trying to distract distract him from being sad um 1188 00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:14,733 is a great lesson that he taught me 1189 00:43:14,733 --> 00:43:18,400 which is that at some point um 1190 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,233 I was doing that and he said dad stop 1191 00:43:22,233 --> 00:43:23,533 he's starting to laugh and 1192 00:43:23,533 --> 00:43:25,800 and I feel I was feeling victorious and he goes dad 1193 00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:27,633 stop and I go what 1194 00:43:27,633 --> 00:43:29,733 he goes just let me feel what I feel 1195 00:43:30,066 --> 00:43:32,000 you never let me feel what I feel 1196 00:43:33,066 --> 00:43:34,633 and I was like I was 1197 00:43:34,733 --> 00:43:35,700 you know what you're 1198 00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,133 and I was like you're so right by that 1199 00:43:38,133 --> 00:43:41,933 I had another situation where the boy was um 1200 00:43:42,333 --> 00:43:46,833 he's about 18 months old and um 1201 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:47,833 I said to him I said 1202 00:43:47,833 --> 00:43:49,200 oh his name is lake 1203 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:49,600 I said lake 1204 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:50,400 give me a kiss 1205 00:43:50,433 --> 00:43:52,933 and he comes over and he comes to kiss me on the lips 1206 00:43:53,033 --> 00:43:55,033 and I move my my uh 1207 00:43:55,033 --> 00:43:56,200 my cheek sideways 1208 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,100 so that he could kiss me on the cheek instead 1209 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,366 and my wife said to me she goes 1210 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,633 why don't you let him kiss you on the lips 1211 00:44:04,233 --> 00:44:07,933 and I said yeah 1212 00:44:07,933 --> 00:44:09,933 men men don't kiss each other on the lips 1213 00:44:11,266 --> 00:44:12,600 and she goes 1214 00:44:14,100 --> 00:44:14,900 that's all 1215 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,400 and I thought about it for like a day 1216 00:44:18,233 --> 00:44:22,933 and I realized that this is an artifact of like 1217 00:44:22,933 --> 00:44:26,233 something really not healthy 1218 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,500 yeah and you 1219 00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:31,700 know I resolved that I wasn't gonna let that do that 1220 00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:33,733 and now you know 1221 00:44:33,733 --> 00:44:35,833 he kisses me on the lips and I kiss him on the lips 1222 00:44:35,833 --> 00:44:37,533 when I drop him off at school 1223 00:44:37,666 --> 00:44:40,100 and it's it's a beautiful moment 1224 00:44:40,500 --> 00:44:41,466 that's so sweet 1225 00:44:41,466 --> 00:44:43,433 and I appreciate your vulnerability and sharing that 1226 00:44:43,433 --> 00:44:45,933 because there is this kind of embedded homophobia 1227 00:44:45,933 --> 00:44:47,666 like men don't kiss other men on the lips 1228 00:44:47,666 --> 00:44:49,033 unless they're gay or whatever 1229 00:44:49,133 --> 00:44:51,200 I think Tom Brady got into trouble 1230 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,466 because he's talking about kissing his dad on the lips 1231 00:44:53,466 --> 00:44:54,866 and Tom Brady was an adult 1232 00:44:54,866 --> 00:44:56,833 and his dad was an even older 1233 00:44:57,033 --> 00:45:00,000 and some people get whatever grossed out by it like 1234 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:00,933 well I do kiss my dad 1235 00:45:00,933 --> 00:45:01,833 I don't kiss him on the lips 1236 00:45:01,833 --> 00:45:03,666 I kiss him on the forehead and on the cheek or whatever 1237 00:45:03,666 --> 00:45:04,866 but first of all 1238 00:45:04,866 --> 00:45:07,533 I appreciate your vulnerability in sharing that story 1239 00:45:07,533 --> 00:45:10,766 and my hope is that you can continue to 1240 00:45:10,900 --> 00:45:13,000 show your love in a way that seems 1241 00:45:13,533 --> 00:45:15,733 appropriate to you I'm glad your wife challenged you 1242 00:45:15,733 --> 00:45:17,833 I'm too that's awesome 1243 00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:19,833 um and it's funny like 1244 00:45:19,833 --> 00:45:20,700 but you even said 1245 00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:22,433 so let me challenge you even though I don't know you 1246 00:45:22,433 --> 00:45:23,433 you didn't ask me to challenge you 1247 00:45:23,433 --> 00:45:24,800 it's like give me a kiss 1248 00:45:25,533 --> 00:45:26,733 do you have daughters too or just sons 1249 00:45:26,733 --> 00:45:28,166 I have one daughter and one son 1250 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,566 my daughter is 3 years old 1251 00:45:29,866 --> 00:45:31,633 so um 1252 00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:33,366 kisses are not uh 1253 00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:35,933 taken they're offered 1254 00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,766 so when you say give me a kiss 1255 00:45:40,933 --> 00:45:42,833 my even better if would be like 1256 00:45:42,833 --> 00:45:44,633 would it be OK if I gave you a kiss 1257 00:45:44,633 --> 00:45:46,800 yeah because your daughter most 1258 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,266 and I'm I'm focusing on your daughter 1259 00:45:48,266 --> 00:45:49,133 cause I have three of them 1260 00:45:49,133 --> 00:45:52,000 consent is a huge thing you know 1261 00:45:52,333 --> 00:45:53,233 when you and I were growing up 1262 00:45:53,233 --> 00:45:54,500 we didn't learn anything about consent 1263 00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:55,466 like we didn't even know what it was 1264 00:45:55,466 --> 00:45:58,233 we had one day of sex education uh 1265 00:45:58,233 --> 00:46:00,733 and it was very uncomfortable yeah 1266 00:46:00,733 --> 00:46:02,933 for our parents so consent like or 1267 00:46:02,933 --> 00:46:05,166 and now I put on grandparents like yeah 1268 00:46:05,433 --> 00:46:06,866 I used to say to my kids oh 1269 00:46:06,866 --> 00:46:08,400 go go give Grandpa a hug 1270 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,200 and the reason I did that 1271 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,100 if I'm being honest is I want my 1272 00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:13,866 I want to feel good about myself yeah 1273 00:46:13,866 --> 00:46:17,133 so that my dad could feel loved from his grandchildren 1274 00:46:17,133 --> 00:46:19,633 right when in fact that's 1275 00:46:19,733 --> 00:46:21,800 I don't want to tell anybody to go 1276 00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,300 do anything with their body right 1277 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,733 they they get to decide yeah 1278 00:46:26,733 --> 00:46:27,433 um 1279 00:46:27,433 --> 00:46:29,866 so just kind of start building that into your practice 1280 00:46:29,866 --> 00:46:31,633 or investigate that and see what works 1281 00:46:31,633 --> 00:46:32,633 because every family is different 1282 00:46:32,633 --> 00:46:33,866 that's a great observation Todd 1283 00:46:33,866 --> 00:46:35,266 and I appreciate you challenging me on that 1284 00:46:35,266 --> 00:46:36,066 I uh 1285 00:46:36,133 --> 00:46:38,400 I I'm gonna give that a lot of thought 1286 00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:39,633 yeah yeah 1287 00:46:39,633 --> 00:46:41,866 and that's such a reflective thing I 1288 00:46:41,866 --> 00:46:43,433 I I do it without even thinking about it 1289 00:46:43,433 --> 00:46:44,133 and that's yeah 1290 00:46:44,133 --> 00:46:46,166 that's exactly right yeah 1291 00:46:46,433 --> 00:46:46,800 well I 1292 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,400 I love to um 1293 00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:50,500 I love to finish off every single 1294 00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:51,600 one of these conversations 1295 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,166 by asking my guest the same question 1296 00:46:54,633 --> 00:46:56,900 and I know it's gonna be putting you on the spot 1297 00:46:57,233 --> 00:47:00,466 but if you had to leave every father listening 1298 00:47:00,466 --> 00:47:03,400 or every parent listening with one principle 1299 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,666 a grounding idea for raising boys into good men 1300 00:47:08,666 --> 00:47:11,033 what would that principle be an operating principle 1301 00:47:16,866 --> 00:47:20,366 I would say model 1302 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,733 the behavior that you wanna see in your son 1303 00:47:24,733 --> 00:47:28,066 if you want your son to treat his partner with Equality 1304 00:47:28,066 --> 00:47:30,166 treat your partner with Equality 1305 00:47:30,533 --> 00:47:31,366 um 1306 00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:33,966 and just do your own work 1307 00:47:34,066 --> 00:47:37,633 it's so easy for me to project my 1308 00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,000 unowned stuff onto my kids 1309 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,966 our kids are here to teach us 1310 00:47:43,066 --> 00:47:44,300 we're not here to teach them 1311 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:45,500 I'm here to learn from my kids 1312 00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:47,466 in the same way that your son taught you 1313 00:47:47,466 --> 00:47:50,633 he said let me get this feeling out 1314 00:47:50,633 --> 00:47:52,333 don't distract me with laughing 1315 00:47:52,533 --> 00:47:55,500 like I think that our kids are here to teach us 1316 00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:57,333 a lot more than we're here to teach them 1317 00:47:57,333 --> 00:47:59,633 and that's some people think that that's radical 1318 00:47:59,633 --> 00:48:01,333 but I would say 1319 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:03,700 what is it that your kids are here to teach you 1320 00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:05,533 my kids are here to teach me presence 1321 00:48:05,533 --> 00:48:06,500 my kids are too old now 1322 00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:08,033 but when they used to walk to school 1323 00:48:08,033 --> 00:48:09,466 they would stop and look at the ants 1324 00:48:09,466 --> 00:48:10,400 and look at the clouds 1325 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,600 and just be fascinated with the world 1326 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:13,133 and I'd be like come on 1327 00:48:13,133 --> 00:48:14,700 we gotta get to school get to school 1328 00:48:14,766 --> 00:48:16,333 this kid was teaching me presence 1329 00:48:16,333 --> 00:48:18,500 that's right can my kid teach me 1330 00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:22,133 so look for ways on how your kids are here to teach you 1331 00:48:22,133 --> 00:48:23,200 yeah um 1332 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,366 that would be another thing I would think yeah 1333 00:48:25,633 --> 00:48:28,833 I think that's that's a fantastic principle Todd 1334 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:29,900 thank you very much and 1335 00:48:29,900 --> 00:48:32,466 and thank you so much for uh 1336 00:48:32,466 --> 00:48:35,200 coming on and sharing your wisdom uh 1337 00:48:35,233 --> 00:48:37,433 with me and the rest of our listeners 1338 00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:39,400 I I really appreciate it 1339 00:48:39,533 --> 00:48:43,400 uh Todd Adams is the executive director of Men Living 1340 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,333 he's the co host of Zen Parenting Radio 1341 00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:48,533 and uh 1342 00:48:48,533 --> 00:48:51,133 if you want to learn more about what he's up to 1343 00:48:51,133 --> 00:48:52,733 and especially uh 1344 00:48:52,733 --> 00:48:53,900 men living groups 1345 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,966 check out the links in the show notes 1346 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:58,600 and to every parent listening 1347 00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,533 thank you for joining me on Raising Men 1348 00:49:01,533 --> 00:49:04,600 I'm Shawn Dawson and you are a great parent 1349 00:49:09,533 --> 00:49:13,000 raising men is produced by Phil Hernandez 1350 00:49:13,266 --> 00:49:16,400 this episode was edited by Ralph Tolentino