1 00:00:00,236 --> 00:00:02,476 Welcome back to another episode of the Startup Therapy podcast. 2 00:00:02,476 --> 00:00:04,756 This is Ryan Rutan, joined as always by my friend, 3 00:00:04,766 --> 00:00:07,746 the founder and CEO of Startups.com, Will Schroeder. 4 00:00:08,256 --> 00:00:12,906 Will, as founders, we spend years and years climbing out 5 00:00:12,906 --> 00:00:16,375 of startup mode, the chaos, the ramen, the will payroll clear. 6 00:00:16,565 --> 00:00:16,855 Yeah. 7 00:00:17,015 --> 00:00:18,235 You finally get to the top. 8 00:00:18,796 --> 00:00:21,485 You know what you sell, you know who you compete with, 9 00:00:21,556 --> 00:00:25,135 you know how you get paid, and then somebody or something 10 00:00:25,136 --> 00:00:27,736 walks over and hits the reset button, and all of a sudden 11 00:00:27,736 --> 00:00:30,065 it's, "Hop in the family truckster, kids. We're going 12 00:00:30,065 --> 00:00:33,695 back to startup land." And that's where every established 13 00:00:33,706 --> 00:00:34,955 company's sitting right now. 14 00:00:34,955 --> 00:00:37,595 AI didn't- Yeah … knock on the door, it kicked it in. 15 00:00:37,755 --> 00:00:38,545 Yep, yep. 16 00:00:38,555 --> 00:00:42,745 And it took moats that we spent decades digging and 17 00:00:42,746 --> 00:00:45,706 filled them in with dirt over a freaking weekend. 18 00:00:45,735 --> 00:00:45,945 Yep. 19 00:00:46,215 --> 00:00:49,555 So today on Startup Therapy, every assumption you made about 20 00:00:49,555 --> 00:00:51,175 your business just expired. 21 00:00:51,186 --> 00:00:51,216 Yep. 22 00:00:51,425 --> 00:00:54,585 Your org chart is now a museum exhibit, and the only people 23 00:00:54,585 --> 00:00:57,986 who survive this are the ones who are willing to run naked 24 00:00:57,986 --> 00:01:00,005 into the abyss one more time. 25 00:01:00,005 --> 00:01:02,275 But the good news is we've done this before. 26 00:01:02,285 --> 00:01:02,305 Yeah. 27 00:01:02,456 --> 00:01:03,985 And that uniform always fits. 28 00:01:04,046 --> 00:01:04,216 Yep. 29 00:01:04,216 --> 00:01:06,486 The bad news is so is your competition. 30 00:01:06,695 --> 00:01:06,815 Yep. 31 00:01:06,816 --> 00:01:09,125 And they have no payroll to protect. 32 00:01:09,856 --> 00:01:12,925 I'm Ryan, that's Will, or maybe that's Will- … depending on 33 00:01:12,956 --> 00:01:16,205 where you're watching this, and surprise, we're a startup again. 34 00:01:16,465 --> 00:01:18,635 We're a startup again, whether we wanna be or not. 35 00:01:18,695 --> 00:01:21,766 And so like- Exactly … that's the most interesting part 36 00:01:21,766 --> 00:01:25,486 about this, is that the world changed so fast. 37 00:01:25,486 --> 00:01:25,545 So fast. 38 00:01:25,545 --> 00:01:29,535 It hit the reset button so fast for so many people. 39 00:01:29,875 --> 00:01:32,786 You know, we've got a, a very broad range of people as far as 40 00:01:32,786 --> 00:01:35,545 their businesses that listen to this podcast and, and we're very 41 00:01:35,545 --> 00:01:36,915 thankful for, for all of them. 42 00:01:37,215 --> 00:01:39,226 But, you know, of course, a pretty good concentration of 43 00:01:39,226 --> 00:01:41,295 folks that are in tech and who build software companies, 44 00:01:41,295 --> 00:01:44,595 et cetera, and all of them, 'cause we talked to all of 45 00:01:44,595 --> 00:01:48,435 them, are like, "Huh, well, that's interesting. You mean 46 00:01:48,435 --> 00:01:51,485 what I spent," like you said, "like a decade building is 47 00:01:51,485 --> 00:01:53,336 a prompt now? Cool." Yeah. 48 00:01:54,026 --> 00:01:55,855 Or if you're in any content business whatsoever- 49 00:01:55,855 --> 00:01:56,275 Didn't see that coming 50 00:01:56,566 --> 00:01:57,705 yeah, didn't see that coming. 51 00:01:57,715 --> 00:02:00,615 And look, I mean, some folks are in a fortunate position 52 00:02:00,615 --> 00:02:03,455 where, like this, you know, new generation of AI helps them. 53 00:02:04,035 --> 00:02:07,265 But I'm gonna argue that it imperils far more 54 00:02:07,265 --> 00:02:08,135 people than it's helping. 55 00:02:08,165 --> 00:02:11,265 I think it helps, like, 1% of people at the expense- 56 00:02:11,396 --> 00:02:12,765 Yeah … of 99% of people. 57 00:02:12,765 --> 00:02:16,895 And, and so it forces all of these instantiated businesses 58 00:02:16,896 --> 00:02:18,975 really of all sizes to restart. 59 00:02:19,215 --> 00:02:20,995 And here's what's crazy about… You know, this isn't 60 00:02:21,006 --> 00:02:22,575 like one of those case, like when the internet came and 61 00:02:22,575 --> 00:02:24,426 you just had to, like, you had a different form factor. 62 00:02:24,775 --> 00:02:28,505 This is like every single aspect of what it means 63 00:02:28,775 --> 00:02:32,416 to build and operate a company has been reset. 64 00:02:33,164 --> 00:02:36,363 And so- Yep … all of a sudden, size, which used to be 65 00:02:36,363 --> 00:02:38,974 a virtue, is a liability, right? 66 00:02:38,974 --> 00:02:39,103 Huge. 67 00:02:39,214 --> 00:02:39,393 Damn. 68 00:02:39,404 --> 00:02:40,173 Huge liability. 69 00:02:40,374 --> 00:02:40,643 Right? 70 00:02:40,643 --> 00:02:42,143 Which sounds- Huge liability … a lot like where startups 71 00:02:42,154 --> 00:02:43,293 start to come in, right? 72 00:02:43,693 --> 00:02:48,063 And products that we could always rely on because we were 73 00:02:48,063 --> 00:02:51,243 the only people that had the capital to build it, or- Yep 74 00:02:51,293 --> 00:02:53,303 … we'd, you know, been around in the marketplace long enough, 75 00:02:53,523 --> 00:02:56,013 all of a sudden it's like, yeah, not that important, right? 76 00:02:56,013 --> 00:02:56,913 You know, damn. 77 00:02:56,923 --> 00:02:56,953 Right. 78 00:02:57,224 --> 00:02:57,504 Yeah. 79 00:02:57,504 --> 00:02:57,713 Right? 80 00:02:57,714 --> 00:02:59,643 And it wasn't one little fundamental shift, right? 81 00:02:59,703 --> 00:03:01,524 It was three at the same time, right? 82 00:03:01,534 --> 00:03:01,583 Mm-hmm. 83 00:03:01,583 --> 00:03:03,863 AI walked in and flipped all three switches off 84 00:03:03,863 --> 00:03:04,723 in the conference room. 85 00:03:05,273 --> 00:03:07,403 Cost to build went to zero, right? 86 00:03:07,404 --> 00:03:10,223 If you had software content product that took real effort, 87 00:03:10,224 --> 00:03:11,803 real money, real time- Yeah 88 00:03:11,853 --> 00:03:15,593 that effort is now a weekend hackathon, right? 89 00:03:16,483 --> 00:03:16,963 Bananas. 90 00:03:16,994 --> 00:03:20,453 The cost of staff and systems collapsed, right? 91 00:03:20,463 --> 00:03:22,743 Having enough revenue to fund a big team used 92 00:03:22,744 --> 00:03:23,533 to be an advantage. 93 00:03:23,713 --> 00:03:24,003 Yeah. 94 00:03:24,043 --> 00:03:26,383 Now that headcount is the damn anchor, right? 95 00:03:26,384 --> 00:03:27,703 And the boat next to you doesn't have one. 96 00:03:27,703 --> 00:03:28,633 That's the real issue, right? 97 00:03:28,633 --> 00:03:30,284 Okay, so- There's somebody just speeding past you 98 00:03:30,284 --> 00:03:31,943 where we're like, "Stroke. 99 00:03:32,343 --> 00:03:32,813 Stroke. 100 00:03:32,814 --> 00:03:34,503 Where the hell are they going," right? 101 00:03:35,353 --> 00:03:37,514 And now the last one, I think this is one of the ones that's 102 00:03:37,514 --> 00:03:40,053 incredible and, and I think you and I are enjoying this 103 00:03:40,214 --> 00:03:43,124 thing right now, which is that everything can now be built. 104 00:03:43,433 --> 00:03:44,234 Un- unbelievable. 105 00:03:44,483 --> 00:03:46,653 The stuff that we wouldn't even dare to think of even 106 00:03:46,663 --> 00:03:48,814 six months ago, we were like, "Wouldn't it be cool? 107 00:03:48,814 --> 00:03:50,753 But no, we can't do that." Yeah, of course we can't do that. 108 00:03:50,753 --> 00:03:51,943 That's gone, right? 109 00:03:51,943 --> 00:03:55,684 Now it's all buildable by almost anyone at almost zero 110 00:03:55,684 --> 00:03:57,813 cost and basically overnight. 111 00:03:58,104 --> 00:03:58,704 Yes. 112 00:03:58,933 --> 00:04:00,523 Everything has changed. 113 00:04:00,583 --> 00:04:02,733 And, and honestly, like I, I'm sure you probably feel the same 114 00:04:02,733 --> 00:04:05,893 way, this just feels like the visible part of the iceberg. 115 00:04:05,933 --> 00:04:07,433 Like there's a whole lot more to come. 116 00:04:07,503 --> 00:04:10,713 Which is a perfect setup because I think at one point, 117 00:04:10,744 --> 00:04:11,763 let's use startups.com. 118 00:04:11,763 --> 00:04:13,453 Startups.com has been around- Sure … for 15 years. 119 00:04:13,473 --> 00:04:15,253 We're a very well-instantiated company. 120 00:04:15,473 --> 00:04:17,353 We've got a bunch of products that have been in the market. 121 00:04:17,393 --> 00:04:19,293 To our credit, we're pretty, uh, diversified 122 00:04:19,413 --> 00:04:20,103 across, you know- Yep 123 00:04:20,113 --> 00:04:21,793 revenue lines and income lines, et cetera. 124 00:04:22,193 --> 00:04:25,683 But everything we do is based on one of two things. 125 00:04:25,683 --> 00:04:27,713 We either built software or information that we sold. 126 00:04:27,723 --> 00:04:27,753 Yep. 127 00:04:28,323 --> 00:04:31,414 And now nearly all of it can either be, and this applies 128 00:04:31,414 --> 00:04:35,163 to everybody, not us, but uh, can be built overnight, right? 129 00:04:35,163 --> 00:04:35,674 Yep. 130 00:04:35,674 --> 00:04:38,353 Or now you don't need us to gate that information. 131 00:04:38,763 --> 00:04:38,963 Right. 132 00:04:38,963 --> 00:04:40,573 You literally just ask Claude, right? 133 00:04:40,573 --> 00:04:41,953 Or ask GPT- Yep … or ask whatever. 134 00:04:41,953 --> 00:04:43,934 Like, you know, the, they may not give you the right 135 00:04:43,934 --> 00:04:45,793 answer, but you don't need us. 136 00:04:45,793 --> 00:04:47,653 You're welcome for training that, right? 137 00:04:47,653 --> 00:04:47,963 Yeah. 138 00:04:47,963 --> 00:04:50,243 Like we, we had a lot to do with those answers. 139 00:04:50,273 --> 00:04:50,473 Yeah. 140 00:04:51,244 --> 00:04:51,944 You're welcome, Claude. 141 00:04:52,294 --> 00:04:53,474 But here's what's interesting. 142 00:04:53,863 --> 00:04:56,173 I think initially, and I'll, I'll speak from personal 143 00:04:56,173 --> 00:05:00,484 experience- If we rewind back a year or two years, which 144 00:05:00,554 --> 00:05:03,864 isn't that long ago- Yeah … I think our initial reaction 145 00:05:03,864 --> 00:05:07,994 to all of this was something more akin to y- how do we 146 00:05:07,994 --> 00:05:09,194 protect ourselves, right? 147 00:05:09,194 --> 00:05:09,214 Mm-hmm. 148 00:05:09,214 --> 00:05:11,114 You know, these new things are happening, and how do we 149 00:05:11,114 --> 00:05:12,424 take what we currently do- Yep 150 00:05:12,874 --> 00:05:13,773 and protect it? 151 00:05:13,954 --> 00:05:16,264 Which is a, a, a logical- Yep … you know, response. 152 00:05:16,774 --> 00:05:18,773 But I think at some point- Makes the move … and we 153 00:05:18,774 --> 00:05:21,303 have a unique purview, and I, I don't wanna overlook this. 154 00:05:21,743 --> 00:05:24,433 See, most businesses, their business isn't 155 00:05:24,444 --> 00:05:27,333 talking to thousands of other startups, right? 156 00:05:27,333 --> 00:05:27,453 Right. 157 00:05:27,483 --> 00:05:28,933 All day long, all the time. 158 00:05:29,303 --> 00:05:31,434 Whereas that actually is our business. 159 00:05:31,443 --> 00:05:31,473 Yes. 160 00:05:31,704 --> 00:05:35,743 So we're watching disruption happen across every single 161 00:05:35,744 --> 00:05:37,483 plane all freaking day. 162 00:05:37,494 --> 00:05:37,514 Yeah. 163 00:05:37,943 --> 00:05:40,193 So, like, in other words, like, the, the siren song 164 00:05:40,193 --> 00:05:43,033 of how things are changing is blaring on our speakers 165 00:05:43,454 --> 00:05:45,883 because of who we literally s- work with every day. 166 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:49,719 Every time someone sends me a pitch deck to look at and says, 167 00:05:49,719 --> 00:05:53,270 "Hey, w- you're disrupting this space," my first thought 168 00:05:53,420 --> 00:05:56,550 isn't just their pitch deck, it's, "I wonder what the 169 00:05:56,550 --> 00:05:58,479 guy who's getting disrupted right now is thinking?" 170 00:05:58,479 --> 00:05:59,530 Yeah, yeah. 171 00:05:59,590 --> 00:06:03,060 My father-in-law, uh, ran a law firm for a long time, and he 172 00:06:03,060 --> 00:06:04,150 was a, a successful attorney. 173 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:05,570 Uh, he retired a couple years ago. 174 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,579 And I talked to him about this, and I said, "Man, did you get 175 00:06:09,580 --> 00:06:11,310 out at the right time," right? 176 00:06:11,310 --> 00:06:11,369 Yeah. 177 00:06:11,369 --> 00:06:13,909 Like, right before this whole thing was a problem 178 00:06:13,909 --> 00:06:18,059 because you practicing law is about to be a prompt. 179 00:06:18,059 --> 00:06:19,680 And I don't mean it in a derogatory way- No … or 180 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,349 dis- you know, take away from what he's saying. 181 00:06:21,350 --> 00:06:23,460 It's, that's even a, an issue. 182 00:06:23,510 --> 00:06:24,514 That's, it's even on the table. 183 00:06:24,514 --> 00:06:24,850 Right. 184 00:06:24,850 --> 00:06:25,130 Right? 185 00:06:25,169 --> 00:06:28,370 Like- Yep … dude, you made it 50 years without that even 186 00:06:28,370 --> 00:06:30,010 being on, on the table, right? 187 00:06:30,350 --> 00:06:30,450 Yeah. 188 00:06:30,539 --> 00:06:31,960 And now overnight. 189 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,229 So I, I think about him. 190 00:06:33,319 --> 00:06:35,969 I think about folks like that who are being disrupted. 191 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:36,460 Yeah. 192 00:06:36,469 --> 00:06:39,679 And I think every time I see all of these people all day 193 00:06:39,679 --> 00:06:43,149 long, Ryan, that are disrupting it, I'm thinking there's 194 00:06:43,159 --> 00:06:45,480 s- there's 10 people on the other side of that disruption. 195 00:06:46,049 --> 00:06:46,259 Yeah. 196 00:06:46,260 --> 00:06:47,729 And, and all the people that work for them. 197 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:48,659 That's a problem. 198 00:06:48,719 --> 00:06:48,979 Yeah. 199 00:06:48,999 --> 00:06:51,080 What's crazy though, man, like I'm gonna push back on 200 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,270 disruption just a little bit. 201 00:06:52,270 --> 00:06:53,959 And I, I- Mm-hmm … I'm mincing words with a really 202 00:06:53,959 --> 00:06:56,179 particular purpose here because in a lot of cases you're not 203 00:06:56,179 --> 00:07:00,139 even getting disrupted, you're just getting speed run, right? 204 00:07:00,149 --> 00:07:02,569 They're not actually doing anything different 205 00:07:02,569 --> 00:07:03,440 than what you're doing. 206 00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:07,049 They're just doing it faster- Yeah … with a much lower 207 00:07:07,050 --> 00:07:10,049 cost infrastructure and a lot less bulk, right? 208 00:07:10,219 --> 00:07:10,479 Right. 209 00:07:10,529 --> 00:07:14,350 It took us 15 years to build the castle and one weekend to 210 00:07:14,350 --> 00:07:17,299 find out that the drawbridge was just a decoration, right? 211 00:07:17,309 --> 00:07:17,649 Why? 212 00:07:17,899 --> 00:07:19,679 Because everybody else is just running. 213 00:07:19,679 --> 00:07:21,809 We're like- Yeah … "But the castle's over here." They're 214 00:07:21,830 --> 00:07:23,619 like, "Yeah, but the promised land's that way," right? 215 00:07:23,619 --> 00:07:24,270 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 216 00:07:24,270 --> 00:07:24,729 Shit. 217 00:07:24,910 --> 00:07:27,279 We've got, uh, spears and shields, and somebody 218 00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:27,609 on the other side's- Yes 219 00:07:27,609 --> 00:07:28,889 g- got a musket, right? 220 00:07:29,219 --> 00:07:29,459 Yeah. 221 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:33,420 So, here's how it would… Uh, if we say s- stop and say, 222 00:07:33,510 --> 00:07:34,429 "What just happened," right? 223 00:07:34,459 --> 00:07:35,280 "What the hell just happened?" Yeah. 224 00:07:35,620 --> 00:07:37,449 Let's put it in three containers. 225 00:07:37,459 --> 00:07:38,779 This is kind of where I'm seeing it. 226 00:07:39,260 --> 00:07:41,030 The first y- you just mentioned a moment ago. 227 00:07:41,289 --> 00:07:44,579 The cost to do kind of everything, not just build- Yep 228 00:07:44,979 --> 00:07:48,079 but operate- Yep … went to damn near zero. 229 00:07:48,219 --> 00:07:49,689 Now, a lot of people- Yeah … push back on that, 230 00:07:50,190 --> 00:07:52,339 and they'll say, "No, it didn't really." Like, yes, a couple 231 00:07:52,349 --> 00:07:53,430 things went, you know, lower. 232 00:07:53,430 --> 00:07:54,440 Da, da, da. 233 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:55,249 Let me put it this way. 234 00:07:55,799 --> 00:07:58,489 If they haven't yet, they will be. 235 00:07:58,700 --> 00:07:58,790 Yeah. 236 00:07:58,969 --> 00:07:59,979 H- here's a different way to think about it. 237 00:08:00,289 --> 00:08:02,949 If there's a cost lingering out there that hasn't been 238 00:08:02,999 --> 00:08:06,349 optimized, AI'd, whatever, it means that there's 50 239 00:08:06,370 --> 00:08:08,869 companies thinking about how to do it because that's- Yeah 240 00:08:08,870 --> 00:08:10,890 the only morsel of ta- of, uh, on the table 241 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:11,649 that's left for them. 242 00:08:11,849 --> 00:08:13,650 They're just twiddling their thumbs waiting for Fable 243 00:08:13,650 --> 00:08:15,799 to come back, like, "We've got this. We've got this." 244 00:08:17,448 --> 00:08:21,907 So the first is with the cost going to zero, that's a 245 00:08:21,907 --> 00:08:24,698 huge problem because I don't think- Yeah … enough people 246 00:08:24,698 --> 00:08:29,717 understand how much things being expensive allowed the center 247 00:08:29,738 --> 00:08:31,957 to hold when it comes to- Yeah 248 00:08:32,047 --> 00:08:32,597 any business. 249 00:08:32,698 --> 00:08:35,337 The castle and moat analog is a really interesting one because 250 00:08:35,347 --> 00:08:37,107 that was the way it worked. 251 00:08:37,188 --> 00:08:38,157 That's the way we thought it worked. 252 00:08:38,157 --> 00:08:40,518 And because of the high cost, because of all of the, you 253 00:08:40,518 --> 00:08:43,007 know, the time complexity, all that stuff, the basic goal 254 00:08:43,007 --> 00:08:47,038 was to build something big enough that would function 255 00:08:47,038 --> 00:08:49,908 and serve enough people It costs enough to build it. 256 00:08:49,908 --> 00:08:51,448 It'd be hard for other people to build it, and 257 00:08:51,448 --> 00:08:52,908 then just try to stay there. 258 00:08:53,458 --> 00:08:56,368 The point was to just try to then maintain status quo so 259 00:08:56,368 --> 00:08:58,968 you keep making money for year after year after year, and that 260 00:08:58,968 --> 00:09:00,928 worked for a long time, right? 261 00:09:00,928 --> 00:09:02,517 But all of a sudden, that's gone, right? 262 00:09:02,517 --> 00:09:02,727 Yeah. 263 00:09:02,818 --> 00:09:04,838 And what you start to realize was that y- you know, your 264 00:09:04,838 --> 00:09:06,147 moat was never the code. 265 00:09:06,148 --> 00:09:06,898 It wasn't the product. 266 00:09:06,898 --> 00:09:07,448 It wasn't the team. 267 00:09:07,728 --> 00:09:10,068 It was the time and money it took to write that 268 00:09:10,068 --> 00:09:11,738 code, to build that team, to do all those things. 269 00:09:11,767 --> 00:09:12,037 Yep. 270 00:09:12,037 --> 00:09:13,808 AI just made those damn near free. 271 00:09:14,007 --> 00:09:14,378 Which is a big problem. 272 00:09:14,378 --> 00:09:14,538 Right? 273 00:09:14,538 --> 00:09:17,268 Which means most companies never actually had a moat. 274 00:09:17,847 --> 00:09:19,108 They had a head start. 275 00:09:19,118 --> 00:09:19,138 Yeah. 276 00:09:19,157 --> 00:09:23,208 And head starts expire, and they are expiring at record 277 00:09:23,208 --> 00:09:26,428 rate, faster than strawberries from Meijer at this point, man. 278 00:09:26,687 --> 00:09:28,907 Things are just going bad left and right. 279 00:09:29,777 --> 00:09:31,987 That's a problem because, uh, it's twofold. 280 00:09:31,988 --> 00:09:34,998 One, because our time and investment, that moat that 281 00:09:34,998 --> 00:09:37,447 we had built, all of a sudden doesn't exist in the 282 00:09:37,448 --> 00:09:38,117 same way that it used to. 283 00:09:38,128 --> 00:09:38,368 Yep. 284 00:09:38,797 --> 00:09:41,277 But more importantly, that's also because the other people 285 00:09:41,277 --> 00:09:43,787 that are c- up and coming can actually build a better 286 00:09:43,788 --> 00:09:46,337 product in almost no time. 287 00:09:46,347 --> 00:09:46,377 Yes. 288 00:09:46,738 --> 00:09:47,647 In almost no time. 289 00:09:47,648 --> 00:09:47,668 Yeah. 290 00:09:47,687 --> 00:09:48,687 Now, they still have to market it. 291 00:09:48,698 --> 00:09:50,007 They still have to do customer acquisition, et 292 00:09:50,007 --> 00:09:50,837 cetera, which isn't a given. 293 00:09:50,837 --> 00:09:50,987 Sure. 294 00:09:51,527 --> 00:09:54,717 But, but they can get to the parity at a product level, 295 00:09:54,727 --> 00:09:56,927 if not much faster in many c- or much bigger- Right … in 296 00:09:56,927 --> 00:10:00,908 many cases at very little cost, which is dangerous. 297 00:10:01,117 --> 00:10:01,668 Here's why. 298 00:10:02,107 --> 00:10:05,027 It means we can now have 30 competitors overnight, 299 00:10:05,507 --> 00:10:07,097 but here's what's- Yeah … even more dangerous. 300 00:10:07,357 --> 00:10:10,718 It means those competitors kinda don't have to worry about 301 00:10:10,718 --> 00:10:13,007 going out of business 'cause it's just two dudes in a room. 302 00:10:13,677 --> 00:10:13,857 Right. 303 00:10:13,918 --> 00:10:14,188 Right? 304 00:10:14,488 --> 00:10:15,998 That's the dangerous part. 305 00:10:15,998 --> 00:10:18,347 It used to be- Right … that when you had a lot of 306 00:10:18,348 --> 00:10:20,817 competitors, you kinda just starved them out. 307 00:10:21,198 --> 00:10:23,138 You kept running- Yep … and eventually, your- Literally, 308 00:10:23,138 --> 00:10:24,567 it was castle warfare. 309 00:10:24,577 --> 00:10:26,447 You just- Yeah … you just rode out the siege. 310 00:10:26,488 --> 00:10:27,387 That's all you had to do. 311 00:10:27,427 --> 00:10:28,138 You do, right? 312 00:10:28,198 --> 00:10:32,117 In our lifetime at Startups.com, countless competitors, right? 313 00:10:32,117 --> 00:10:32,137 Yeah, yeah. 314 00:10:32,177 --> 00:10:33,997 Across all the businesses that we've had, et cetera. 315 00:10:34,247 --> 00:10:34,467 Oh, my God. 316 00:10:34,467 --> 00:10:36,137 I mean, so much that we don't even pay attention anymore. 317 00:10:36,137 --> 00:10:36,987 Go back to the fundable days. 318 00:10:36,997 --> 00:10:39,738 How many, how many crowdfunding for equity platforms, uh, 319 00:10:39,787 --> 00:10:42,657 appeared overnight and then disappeared nearly as quickly? 320 00:10:42,997 --> 00:10:46,297 Once a month, like clockwork, a, a friend of mine, another 321 00:10:46,297 --> 00:10:47,607 founder, was like, "Oh, my God, did you hear about 322 00:10:47,607 --> 00:10:49,977 this company in your space?" I'm like, "I didn't, and I 323 00:10:50,007 --> 00:10:50,937 actually just don't care." 324 00:10:50,988 --> 00:10:51,868 Yeah, don't care. 325 00:10:51,868 --> 00:10:53,857 And, and they can never believe that I'm not all, 326 00:10:53,857 --> 00:10:54,807 like, wired up about it. 327 00:10:54,977 --> 00:10:55,147 Yeah. 328 00:10:55,147 --> 00:10:58,747 And it's because I've seen so many people come and go so many 329 00:10:58,747 --> 00:11:02,657 times- Yeah … that I realize that, like, it's only a problem 330 00:11:02,917 --> 00:11:04,167 when it becomes a problem. 331 00:11:04,318 --> 00:11:05,808 Like, like, in other words- Yeah … if, if they happen 332 00:11:05,808 --> 00:11:08,267 to hit that threshold and they're, I'm somehow losing 333 00:11:08,267 --> 00:11:11,737 lots of business, maybe, but until then, it's not a problem. 334 00:11:12,467 --> 00:11:15,837 And I say that to say because I knew they 335 00:11:15,837 --> 00:11:16,788 would go out of business. 336 00:11:16,917 --> 00:11:19,177 I knew that if I just held on longer than they 337 00:11:19,178 --> 00:11:21,498 could, that eventually they wouldn't be around, and that 338 00:11:21,538 --> 00:11:23,187 largely held true, right? 339 00:11:23,297 --> 00:11:23,537 Yeah. 340 00:11:23,757 --> 00:11:24,437 Here's a good example. 341 00:11:24,917 --> 00:11:27,107 How many competitors did we have at Zirtual.com, our 342 00:11:27,107 --> 00:11:28,207 virtual assistant business? 343 00:11:28,547 --> 00:11:29,067 All of them. 344 00:11:29,417 --> 00:11:33,312 Actually, yeah, like literally If you get down into who is 345 00:11:33,312 --> 00:11:35,842 actually a competitor of that company, tens of thousands, 346 00:11:35,842 --> 00:11:38,762 because there were these lots of little agencies or big agencies- 347 00:11:38,762 --> 00:11:40,832 Yep … there were individual people, like millions if you 348 00:11:40,842 --> 00:11:41,612 count the individuals, right? 349 00:11:41,612 --> 00:11:41,812 Right. 350 00:11:41,812 --> 00:11:43,932 So yes, lots and lots of competition. 351 00:11:44,072 --> 00:11:46,202 And we started as the biggest, 'cause we bought the company, 352 00:11:46,342 --> 00:11:48,152 and we ended as the biggest when we sold the company. 353 00:11:48,152 --> 00:11:48,341 Yep. 354 00:11:48,411 --> 00:11:48,711 Right? 355 00:11:48,761 --> 00:11:51,591 Like, not because we're anything special, because 356 00:11:51,591 --> 00:11:54,772 it's really hard to unseat incumbents, right? 357 00:11:54,851 --> 00:11:55,121 Yep. 358 00:11:55,271 --> 00:11:58,512 Now, all that said, all that said, the difference 359 00:11:58,552 --> 00:12:00,721 in this case is these cockroaches never die. 360 00:12:01,421 --> 00:12:01,721 Right. 361 00:12:01,771 --> 00:12:04,881 Like, these cockroaches are gonna be around forever nibbling 362 00:12:04,881 --> 00:12:06,141 away at our market share. 363 00:12:06,182 --> 00:12:06,462 Yep. 364 00:12:06,502 --> 00:12:06,822 Right? 365 00:12:06,932 --> 00:12:07,851 And that becomes a problem. 366 00:12:07,851 --> 00:12:09,911 So that, that's one of three things that just happened. 367 00:12:10,601 --> 00:12:12,751 People can get to market fast, they can get to market 368 00:12:12,752 --> 00:12:16,442 meaningfully, and they can afford to not go away. 369 00:12:16,841 --> 00:12:17,301 Big problem. 370 00:12:17,491 --> 00:12:18,901 That's actually the biggest one, right? 371 00:12:18,921 --> 00:12:20,901 The, the afford to not go away is the biggest problem. 372 00:12:20,901 --> 00:12:21,772 We talk about this all the time. 373 00:12:21,782 --> 00:12:25,141 Like, if you can just stay around long enough, you start 374 00:12:25,142 --> 00:12:27,171 to solve so many of your little problems and then some 375 00:12:27,171 --> 00:12:29,081 of your big problems, then you become a viable company. 376 00:12:29,081 --> 00:12:29,592 And, and- Oh 377 00:12:29,622 --> 00:12:32,121 it's just got really easy now to stick around 378 00:12:32,122 --> 00:12:33,932 for a long, long time. 379 00:12:34,061 --> 00:12:34,711 That's what I'm saying. 380 00:12:34,761 --> 00:12:37,151 And if you're funded as well, again, assuming you spend 381 00:12:37,151 --> 00:12:38,931 your money right, you can- Yeah … really stick around 382 00:12:38,931 --> 00:12:39,771 for a long time, right? 383 00:12:39,812 --> 00:12:40,331 Yeah, yeah. 384 00:12:40,331 --> 00:12:45,071 The second thing is because the cost of staff and systems has 385 00:12:45,081 --> 00:12:48,352 plummeted, you're now competing with people that don't have 386 00:12:48,361 --> 00:12:50,301 your ballast, your dead weight. 387 00:12:50,302 --> 00:12:50,572 Right. 388 00:12:50,851 --> 00:12:51,141 Right? 389 00:12:51,141 --> 00:12:51,311 Yep. 390 00:12:51,361 --> 00:12:53,801 And so, you know, if you're a company right now, a 391 00:12:53,802 --> 00:12:56,191 software company, that's got 100 people in it- 392 00:12:56,351 --> 00:12:57,481 Yeah … which isn't massive. 393 00:12:57,482 --> 00:12:58,141 I mean, it's a good size. 394 00:12:58,202 --> 00:12:58,412 No. 395 00:12:58,501 --> 00:12:59,101 I'm not, I'm not knocking it. 396 00:12:59,151 --> 00:13:01,881 But it's a lot more payroll tax than two people. 397 00:13:02,141 --> 00:13:03,201 Right. 398 00:13:03,391 --> 00:13:06,391 And it's like, wait a minute, what if, crazy to think, 399 00:13:06,622 --> 00:13:09,161 in today's terms with the tools that are available 400 00:13:09,162 --> 00:13:12,741 and the pace of everything, I need 10, maybe 20- Yeah 401 00:13:12,741 --> 00:13:13,691 at t- tops, right? 402 00:13:13,772 --> 00:13:14,032 Yep. 403 00:13:14,372 --> 00:13:17,861 Think of how dangerous those other 80 people are to the 404 00:13:17,861 --> 00:13:19,311 future of your company, right? 405 00:13:19,361 --> 00:13:19,541 Yeah. 406 00:13:19,561 --> 00:13:20,671 That's scary as hell. 407 00:13:20,872 --> 00:13:22,541 You know, we'll, we'll talk about that some more. 408 00:13:23,281 --> 00:13:25,501 But the last part that I think people are just 409 00:13:25,531 --> 00:13:30,011 coming to terms with is that everything can be built now. 410 00:13:30,571 --> 00:13:33,121 For example, in the past, y- we talked about this a moment ago. 411 00:13:33,721 --> 00:13:36,942 In the past when we sat down and we scoped out our 412 00:13:36,942 --> 00:13:40,791 roadmaps, et cetera, they were always fundamentally 413 00:13:40,791 --> 00:13:42,431 delimited by man hours. 414 00:13:42,441 --> 00:13:42,471 Yep. 415 00:13:42,901 --> 00:13:43,101 Right? 416 00:13:43,101 --> 00:13:43,229 Yep. 417 00:13:43,229 --> 00:13:45,161 I mean, and we had a good sense for how many man hours 418 00:13:45,162 --> 00:13:47,371 could produce a product, and the timeline, and 419 00:13:47,371 --> 00:13:48,242 everything else like that. 420 00:13:48,882 --> 00:13:52,511 And so we could scope what our product could be, the 421 00:13:52,511 --> 00:13:54,952 limits of what it could be, et cetera, in very 422 00:13:54,962 --> 00:13:57,121 verifiable terms because we… 423 00:13:57,121 --> 00:13:59,091 Of course it can't be bigger than this, 'cause that would 424 00:13:59,091 --> 00:14:01,561 take- Right … 200 people that we, we don't have, right? 425 00:14:01,912 --> 00:14:05,321 So we would conceive of things fairly constrained. 426 00:14:05,621 --> 00:14:06,061 Yeah. 427 00:14:06,221 --> 00:14:06,621 Always. 428 00:14:06,671 --> 00:14:08,691 Like, y- we almost always started with the constraints. 429 00:14:08,691 --> 00:14:10,701 Like, what are the resources we have available? 430 00:14:10,701 --> 00:14:11,861 What can we do within that? 431 00:14:12,272 --> 00:14:13,951 And it was extremely constraining. 432 00:14:13,951 --> 00:14:15,081 It wasn't a little constraining. 433 00:14:15,091 --> 00:14:15,111 Yeah. 434 00:14:15,121 --> 00:14:17,311 Now that those limitations are off, you're not just 435 00:14:17,341 --> 00:14:19,641 competing with what you did, you're competing with all the 436 00:14:19,641 --> 00:14:21,701 things you didn't think you could do five minutes ago. 437 00:14:21,901 --> 00:14:23,011 That's what I'm s- Right? 438 00:14:23,291 --> 00:14:26,061 This one's really fascinating to me. 439 00:14:26,451 --> 00:14:26,571 Yeah. 440 00:14:26,651 --> 00:14:28,882 Because I don't think that there's enough people, 441 00:14:29,041 --> 00:14:33,036 particularly incumbents- that can do this restart. 442 00:14:33,356 --> 00:14:36,536 Like mentally, to be able to say- Yeah … "Shit, it doesn't 443 00:14:36,536 --> 00:14:39,075 matter what we did before or anything like that." It doesn't. 444 00:14:39,075 --> 00:14:41,355 "This is new world, and we're gonna build with 445 00:14:41,486 --> 00:14:42,645 new world in mind." Yeah. 446 00:14:42,896 --> 00:14:47,825 By the way, in many cases, w- that new world will deliberately 447 00:14:47,825 --> 00:14:49,805 destroy what pays our bills. 448 00:14:49,955 --> 00:14:50,445 See Google. 449 00:14:50,455 --> 00:14:50,735 Yep. 450 00:14:51,205 --> 00:14:53,535 You gotta start tearing apart the castle and building wagons. 451 00:14:53,535 --> 00:14:56,205 You gotta start killing the sacred cows and, and eating 452 00:14:56,205 --> 00:14:58,365 them 'cause it's time to go push… Like, we gotta run. 453 00:14:58,386 --> 00:14:59,925 Like, it's, it's time to go at this point. 454 00:15:00,045 --> 00:15:01,865 Building a tree house while you're chopping down the tree. 455 00:15:02,515 --> 00:15:03,025 Exactly. 456 00:15:03,035 --> 00:15:03,065 Right? 457 00:15:03,455 --> 00:15:03,475 Yeah. 458 00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:06,406 And I think, again, I'm using Google as a perfect 459 00:15:06,406 --> 00:15:07,565 example of this, right? 460 00:15:07,575 --> 00:15:10,495 Such a smart, innovative company, obviously incredibly 461 00:15:10,496 --> 00:15:14,026 well-funded, and they're like, "Okay, AI is making 462 00:15:14,026 --> 00:15:18,016 search go away, but search pays 70% of our bills." 463 00:15:18,035 --> 00:15:19,736 And they aren't small bills, right? 464 00:15:19,976 --> 00:15:20,136 No. 465 00:15:20,156 --> 00:15:23,875 "So now we have to innovate on search, um, on AI that 466 00:15:23,885 --> 00:15:27,755 is gonna displace search and still pay our bills. Like, 467 00:15:27,755 --> 00:15:29,795 it's, it's the opposite- Yeah … of what we wanna do." 468 00:15:29,976 --> 00:15:31,215 Now, Google's a smart company. 469 00:15:31,215 --> 00:15:32,085 They'll figure it out. 470 00:15:32,325 --> 00:15:36,235 But think of how many companies are in that quandary, 471 00:15:36,656 --> 00:15:37,346 where they're like- Yeah 472 00:15:37,455 --> 00:15:39,905 "Yeah, but the next thing involves people not needing 473 00:15:39,906 --> 00:15:42,626 what we have." Take our virtual assistant business, right? 474 00:15:43,185 --> 00:15:45,665 If we still owned our virtual assistant business, the obvious 475 00:15:45,666 --> 00:15:48,016 thing would be, "Well, well let's move all of the virtual 476 00:15:48,016 --> 00:15:50,405 assistants to be virtual, to be AI based," right? 477 00:15:50,475 --> 00:15:50,545 Yeah. 478 00:15:50,995 --> 00:15:53,985 Okay, but we literally get paid to, for people. 479 00:15:54,545 --> 00:15:54,815 Yeah. 480 00:15:54,825 --> 00:15:55,025 Right? 481 00:15:55,086 --> 00:15:56,995 Like, if we don't have people anymore- And 482 00:15:56,995 --> 00:15:57,455 we pay lots of people. 483 00:15:57,455 --> 00:15:57,905 Yeah, yeah. 484 00:15:57,906 --> 00:15:59,355 I mean, let's over- look, there, there'll be hundreds and 485 00:15:59,355 --> 00:16:01,075 hundreds of people on payroll. 486 00:16:01,505 --> 00:16:04,742 That's actually our product It goes back to my 487 00:16:04,742 --> 00:16:06,482 father-in-law, you know, in law. 488 00:16:06,922 --> 00:16:09,082 "Hey, let's build an AI that does all the law for you." 489 00:16:09,562 --> 00:16:11,262 Yeah, we get paid hourly, man. 490 00:16:11,661 --> 00:16:12,641 Mm-hmm. 491 00:16:12,771 --> 00:16:15,192 That's, like, doesn't… That's the opposite of 492 00:16:15,192 --> 00:16:16,201 what works well for us. 493 00:16:16,391 --> 00:16:16,982 That's the thing. 494 00:16:17,041 --> 00:16:20,172 Like, the existing models don't work within the new 495 00:16:20,201 --> 00:16:21,731 technologies at all, right? 496 00:16:21,742 --> 00:16:21,762 Mm-hmm. 497 00:16:21,762 --> 00:16:23,891 They're actually, in some cases, directly 498 00:16:23,911 --> 00:16:25,062 competitive, to your point. 499 00:16:25,072 --> 00:16:28,651 Like, if all of a sudden, you know, wow, we can deliver, uh, 500 00:16:28,681 --> 00:16:32,802 legal advice at, at 10X the rate in terms of speed, cool. 501 00:16:33,371 --> 00:16:35,367 You don't get to charge any more for that, right? 502 00:16:35,367 --> 00:16:36,362 R- right, right. 503 00:16:36,362 --> 00:16:38,552 And so now you just cut your billable rate by a, a 504 00:16:38,552 --> 00:16:40,192 magnitude of, of 90%, right? 505 00:16:40,201 --> 00:16:42,011 You're down, like, to 10%, because that's 506 00:16:42,011 --> 00:16:42,661 how long it takes now. 507 00:16:43,331 --> 00:16:44,711 Now- So not exactly a great outcome for them. 508 00:16:45,031 --> 00:16:48,572 Now imagine, right, you and I are walking into our 509 00:16:48,572 --> 00:16:50,411 staff meeting, our executive staff meeting, right? 510 00:16:50,721 --> 00:16:50,891 Yeah. 511 00:16:50,891 --> 00:16:53,422 And let's say we're a 100-person software company, and the 512 00:16:53,422 --> 00:16:55,991 first thing we're saying is that, "Hey, we gotta start 513 00:16:56,021 --> 00:16:57,511 thinking like a startup." And everybody high-fives. 514 00:16:57,581 --> 00:16:58,629 "Oh, yeah. Absolutely." Yeah, yeah. 515 00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:59,661 Back to the startup, back to the ground, whatever. 516 00:16:59,931 --> 00:17:00,041 Like, right? 517 00:17:00,041 --> 00:17:00,961 Yeah, flexible. 518 00:17:00,971 --> 00:17:01,781 Y- yeah, yeah, yeah. 519 00:17:01,791 --> 00:17:02,111 Agile. 520 00:17:02,761 --> 00:17:03,051 Right. 521 00:17:03,061 --> 00:17:04,401 Let's go scrum, guys. 522 00:17:04,451 --> 00:17:04,731 Okay. 523 00:17:05,061 --> 00:17:09,591 But our first order of business is, and now how many jobs that 524 00:17:09,592 --> 00:17:12,911 are being done here are still gonna be relevant that we still 525 00:17:12,912 --> 00:17:16,021 need to staff up for, and what do we need to, to swap out? 526 00:17:16,342 --> 00:17:16,532 Yeah. 527 00:17:16,562 --> 00:17:18,051 That's where the conversation- It's- … starts to get a 528 00:17:18,051 --> 00:17:19,281 little bit different, right? 529 00:17:19,321 --> 00:17:21,521 This is the part nobody wants to really talk about, right? 530 00:17:21,521 --> 00:17:23,161 Th- th- this is- A huge piece of just- Yeah … what 531 00:17:23,162 --> 00:17:26,652 made each of us valuable five minutes ago just got 532 00:17:26,652 --> 00:17:28,061 replaced by a chat prompt. 533 00:17:28,581 --> 00:17:31,271 You know, something that's really funny about everything 534 00:17:31,272 --> 00:17:34,731 we talk about here is that none of it is new. 535 00:17:34,991 --> 00:17:37,532 Everything you're dealing with right now has been done a 536 00:17:37,641 --> 00:17:41,381 thousand times before you, which means the answer already exists. 537 00:17:41,391 --> 00:17:43,321 You may just not know it, but that's okay. 538 00:17:43,632 --> 00:17:45,452 That's kind of what we're here to do. 539 00:17:45,482 --> 00:17:48,121 We talk about this stuff on the show, but we actually 540 00:17:48,121 --> 00:17:52,191 solve these problems all day long at groups.startups.com. 541 00:17:52,331 --> 00:17:55,571 So if any of this sounds familiar, stop guessing 542 00:17:55,641 --> 00:17:56,611 about what to do. 543 00:17:56,861 --> 00:18:00,011 Let us just give you the answers to the test and be done with it. 544 00:18:00,482 --> 00:18:02,971 Let's unpack this one, because this is the human element 545 00:18:03,191 --> 00:18:05,101 which makes this so difficult. 546 00:18:05,131 --> 00:18:07,341 I would argue for a second that there's probably a lot 547 00:18:07,342 --> 00:18:11,191 of other aspects of this pivot that an existing instantiated 548 00:18:11,221 --> 00:18:13,052 company can kind of figure out. 549 00:18:13,482 --> 00:18:17,082 This one has no, no winner, because this just involves 550 00:18:17,092 --> 00:18:20,531 people that worked so hard to build this thing no longer 551 00:18:20,541 --> 00:18:23,851 having a place, but even worse- Yeah Essentially, 552 00:18:23,851 --> 00:18:26,422 in some cases, asking them to dig their own grave. 553 00:18:26,432 --> 00:18:26,452 Yeah. 554 00:18:26,992 --> 00:18:29,812 Let's say that you've got a 20-person customer support, 555 00:18:29,812 --> 00:18:32,162 customer success team, and you say, "Hey, we gotta 556 00:18:32,162 --> 00:18:34,631 think like a startup. With AI, we could probably do the 557 00:18:34,631 --> 00:18:37,011 same thing we're doing with 20 with two people." Yeah. 558 00:18:37,411 --> 00:18:38,051 Okay. 559 00:18:38,361 --> 00:18:39,481 Write the playbook for us. 560 00:18:39,532 --> 00:18:42,621 Like- Yeah … I guess we start with a shovel. 561 00:18:42,621 --> 00:18:44,942 We dig the hole about six foot deep, then I jump in it. 562 00:18:44,961 --> 00:18:47,351 You pelt me with rocks, and it's g- day over, right? 563 00:18:47,361 --> 00:18:47,851 Like, yeah. 564 00:18:48,081 --> 00:18:50,481 Like, how does that conversation go? 565 00:18:50,571 --> 00:18:54,061 And I say this with reverence, the ultimate protected 566 00:18:54,061 --> 00:18:56,152 class, the engineers, right? 567 00:18:56,152 --> 00:18:56,182 Yeah. 568 00:18:56,182 --> 00:19:01,232 The engineers have enjoyed a period of magical 569 00:19:01,391 --> 00:19:02,141 unpredictability, right? 570 00:19:02,161 --> 00:19:04,412 Like- Yep … if you've been an engineer in the software 571 00:19:04,412 --> 00:19:07,921 business in the last 30 years, life has been pretty 572 00:19:07,921 --> 00:19:09,991 good as far as job security. 573 00:19:10,531 --> 00:19:13,782 And now we go to what's always the highest line item, which 574 00:19:13,782 --> 00:19:16,391 are the engineers, which see job security, right? 575 00:19:16,841 --> 00:19:18,281 And we say, "Hey, good news, guys. 576 00:19:18,471 --> 00:19:21,671 We're gonna build 10X more with 10X less people." If you're 577 00:19:21,671 --> 00:19:25,531 the engineers, and your job historically has essentially 578 00:19:25,531 --> 00:19:27,941 been the gatekeeper of what gets built, right, which is 579 00:19:27,941 --> 00:19:32,422 a very powerful role, and the CMO who, you know, who, who 580 00:19:32,441 --> 00:19:35,522 engages you on the marketing side and the CEO, the director 581 00:19:35,532 --> 00:19:37,951 of product, you know, all these different roles, have always 582 00:19:38,081 --> 00:19:43,302 basically had to rely on you and your team to be able to 583 00:19:43,302 --> 00:19:46,941 get stuff done, whether it was, you know, uh, product designs, 584 00:19:46,941 --> 00:19:50,792 whether, whatever, and all of a sudden you're not as important 585 00:19:50,792 --> 00:19:51,991 as you were five minutes ago. 586 00:19:52,321 --> 00:19:52,731 Mm-hmm. 587 00:19:52,751 --> 00:19:53,651 Here, here's where I'm going with this. 588 00:19:54,111 --> 00:19:56,701 Your first thought isn't going to be, "You're right. 589 00:19:56,711 --> 00:19:59,291 Burn it all down. Let me get rid of, uh, two-thirds of my 590 00:19:59,291 --> 00:20:01,981 staff and push all decisioning to somebody but me." Yeah. 591 00:20:02,202 --> 00:20:03,551 No one is going to say that. 592 00:20:03,551 --> 00:20:04,711 No one wants to do that, no. 593 00:20:04,711 --> 00:20:05,161 Right? 594 00:20:05,301 --> 00:20:07,541 And so again, this is what this episode's all about. 595 00:20:08,191 --> 00:20:11,751 As leadership, you've gotta reset all these folks 596 00:20:12,062 --> 00:20:13,502 who don't wanna be reset. 597 00:20:14,126 --> 00:20:15,976 That's, I think that's gonna be one of the most challenging part 598 00:20:15,976 --> 00:20:19,916 of this because, look, we built these companies on a giant stack 599 00:20:19,926 --> 00:20:22,229 of assumptions, that these are the roles we need- Yep … this 600 00:20:22,229 --> 00:20:24,336 is what they produce, this is what they cost, and all 601 00:20:24,336 --> 00:20:26,335 of that was settled, right? 602 00:20:26,345 --> 00:20:28,995 Now, all of a sudden, not only is that not settled, it's pretty 603 00:20:28,995 --> 00:20:29,966 obvious that it's different. 604 00:20:29,966 --> 00:20:31,735 And let's go back to the competitive angle of this. 605 00:20:32,015 --> 00:20:34,405 Because even if you're like, "Look, we'll just try to 606 00:20:34,405 --> 00:20:36,175 make this work. We'll just keep chugging along," you're 607 00:20:36,245 --> 00:20:38,436 doing it with 100, they come along and they're doing 608 00:20:38,436 --> 00:20:40,436 it with 10, maybe fewer. 609 00:20:40,835 --> 00:20:42,266 That's a big problem, and there's nothing 610 00:20:42,266 --> 00:20:43,295 cool about that, right? 611 00:20:43,296 --> 00:20:44,656 Because it does, it means cutting back. 612 00:20:44,665 --> 00:20:46,765 It, it means good people, generally good people, 613 00:20:46,765 --> 00:20:49,686 get to- Yeah … get this place for reasons that have 614 00:20:49,686 --> 00:20:52,306 nothing to do with whether they were good or not. 615 00:20:52,435 --> 00:20:53,046 Not their fault. 616 00:20:53,065 --> 00:20:54,926 I mean, literally not their fault, right? 617 00:20:55,036 --> 00:20:55,606 It's brutal. 618 00:20:55,885 --> 00:20:56,895 And- But it doesn't change the math. 619 00:20:57,536 --> 00:20:57,833 That's the problem. 620 00:20:57,833 --> 00:20:58,415 It doesn't change the math. 621 00:20:58,576 --> 00:20:59,015 That's the problem. 622 00:20:59,015 --> 00:21:00,935 To survive, you have to think like a startup that launched 623 00:21:00,935 --> 00:21:03,605 this morning, and because that's exactly who you're 624 00:21:03,606 --> 00:21:04,675 gonna be competing with, right? 625 00:21:04,675 --> 00:21:06,855 There's somebody else that started yesterday who's now 626 00:21:06,865 --> 00:21:11,835 nearly where you are after 15 years, because they can just do 627 00:21:12,056 --> 00:21:14,036 everything that you did in such a short period of time under 628 00:21:14,036 --> 00:21:15,835 such little cost constraint. 629 00:21:16,165 --> 00:21:18,165 We have to rethink the org chart completely. 630 00:21:18,435 --> 00:21:19,785 Let me do a little side quest here. 631 00:21:20,096 --> 00:21:22,815 We did an episode years and years a- ago where we 632 00:21:22,815 --> 00:21:25,176 talked about when small companies think about 633 00:21:25,176 --> 00:21:26,355 competing with big companies. 634 00:21:26,365 --> 00:21:27,965 Mm. And we talked about it like Luke Skywalker 635 00:21:28,026 --> 00:21:28,676 taking on the Death Star. 636 00:21:28,696 --> 00:21:28,966 Yeah. 637 00:21:29,015 --> 00:21:29,925 You finding that, that- Yep 638 00:21:29,925 --> 00:21:32,035 that one, you know, chink in the armor, so to speak. 639 00:21:32,346 --> 00:21:34,195 I- in that episode, what we said is, you know, we don't 640 00:21:34,196 --> 00:21:36,906 fear big competitors because we know they're slow and whatever. 641 00:21:36,906 --> 00:21:38,855 Like, when that Death Star finally turns and that 642 00:21:38,855 --> 00:21:40,895 thing fires up and- Yeah, yeah … uh, launches on, 643 00:21:40,925 --> 00:21:42,546 on Alderaan, uh, game over. 644 00:21:42,556 --> 00:21:42,586 Right. 645 00:21:42,675 --> 00:21:43,735 But until then- Yeah 646 00:21:43,955 --> 00:21:45,215 they are very vulnerable. 647 00:21:45,645 --> 00:21:47,495 I want, for those folks that are listening that aren't part 648 00:21:47,495 --> 00:21:49,925 of big organizations but are about to compete with them, I 649 00:21:49,925 --> 00:21:52,895 want you to think about what we're saying very differently. 650 00:21:53,385 --> 00:21:55,855 I want you to think when you go after big co- 651 00:21:56,634 --> 00:21:58,914 This is the problem that they have to deal with. 652 00:21:58,954 --> 00:22:01,863 This is the big, uh, storeroom they have for all 653 00:22:01,863 --> 00:22:04,843 of their, their firearms that if you're similar to, 654 00:22:04,843 --> 00:22:05,833 similar to the Death Star. 655 00:22:05,963 --> 00:22:07,823 If you just- Yeah … if you just land on that, this 656 00:22:07,823 --> 00:22:08,863 whole thing is gonna explode. 657 00:22:09,283 --> 00:22:13,363 If I'm about to compete with Big Co., and I know that in 658 00:22:13,404 --> 00:22:17,083 order for them to do what I do, they have to be a fraction of 659 00:22:17,083 --> 00:22:20,404 the size because I can sell, right, I can sell stuff for 660 00:22:20,404 --> 00:22:23,244 a dollar that they used to have to sell for $100, right? 661 00:22:23,244 --> 00:22:25,543 So in order for them to- Yeah … to stay competitive, they 662 00:22:25,543 --> 00:22:26,803 can't have all those people. 663 00:22:27,173 --> 00:22:30,384 So I know when I'm competing with them, that the 664 00:22:30,393 --> 00:22:32,924 consternation that it's gonna take, that their first 665 00:22:33,014 --> 00:22:35,993 reaction is gonna be to try to protect all those people 666 00:22:35,994 --> 00:22:38,293 and preserve- Yeah … that capital structure, right? 667 00:22:38,293 --> 00:22:38,563 Yep. 668 00:22:38,733 --> 00:22:39,643 That's the big problem, right? 669 00:22:39,643 --> 00:22:42,313 'Cause the competitor's doing it with 10, not because 670 00:22:42,313 --> 00:22:43,533 they're smarter than you. 671 00:22:43,703 --> 00:22:46,333 They just started after the reset, so they never hired the 672 00:22:46,333 --> 00:22:47,904 other 90 in the first place. 673 00:22:47,913 --> 00:22:47,933 Yeah. 674 00:22:47,953 --> 00:22:49,513 They don't have to solve that problem. 675 00:22:49,713 --> 00:22:49,973 Correct. 676 00:22:50,133 --> 00:22:51,473 They just have to solve the problem of how do we build it. 677 00:22:51,573 --> 00:22:53,683 We have to solve the problem of how do we build and 678 00:22:53,683 --> 00:22:55,223 how do we keep everybody whole while we're doing it. 679 00:22:55,453 --> 00:22:57,674 So my side quest there was just letting folks 680 00:22:57,674 --> 00:22:59,403 know that, you know, kinda getting to this game that 681 00:22:59,413 --> 00:23:00,863 are these nimble competitors. 682 00:23:01,133 --> 00:23:03,763 What you're up against isn't just, hey, this 683 00:23:03,763 --> 00:23:04,743 is a bigger company. 684 00:23:05,053 --> 00:23:08,574 You are up against a company that internally has a 685 00:23:08,623 --> 00:23:10,433 time bomb ticking, right? 686 00:23:10,574 --> 00:23:13,103 I will say this 'cause a lot of people haven't seen 687 00:23:13,104 --> 00:23:15,233 the in- inner workings of, of enough big companies. 688 00:23:15,714 --> 00:23:18,113 When a company gets up to a certain size, and there's no 689 00:23:18,123 --> 00:23:20,614 magic number, but it could be 100 people, it could be 500 690 00:23:20,633 --> 00:23:23,984 people, et cetera, the focus of all the people that work there 691 00:23:24,163 --> 00:23:25,643 no longer becomes external. 692 00:23:25,953 --> 00:23:27,833 It becomes entirely internal. 693 00:23:27,843 --> 00:23:28,053 Yeah, yeah. 694 00:23:28,053 --> 00:23:30,813 Your success within the company has everything to do 695 00:23:30,813 --> 00:23:33,714 with what you do within that company, the politics and 696 00:23:33,714 --> 00:23:34,683 everything else like that. 697 00:23:35,153 --> 00:23:37,463 The external success, like how well the product does 698 00:23:37,464 --> 00:23:41,614 in the market, kinda becomes nobody's personal benefit. 699 00:23:41,843 --> 00:23:44,763 But the internal, how well your company did, how well you 700 00:23:45,034 --> 00:23:48,033 promoted people, et cetera, becomes how you make more money. 701 00:23:48,293 --> 00:23:52,176 My point is- For startups, the small ones, they can just 702 00:23:52,176 --> 00:23:54,186 focus on how many customers are we selling, like how does 703 00:23:54,186 --> 00:23:55,265 this benefit us directly? 704 00:23:55,636 --> 00:23:55,656 Yeah. 705 00:23:55,846 --> 00:23:59,136 But the people you're competing with, the actual humans behind 706 00:23:59,146 --> 00:24:02,336 big logo, are just worried about their own frigging jobs, man. 707 00:24:02,485 --> 00:24:05,206 They're just worried about updating their LinkedIn, right? 708 00:24:05,206 --> 00:24:06,866 And making sure that they, they, they don't lose 709 00:24:06,866 --> 00:24:07,585 pay on their mortgage. 710 00:24:07,586 --> 00:24:11,255 So a lot of very vulnerable big logos right now. 711 00:24:11,646 --> 00:24:12,805 Um, and it's- Super … I think it's important 712 00:24:12,806 --> 00:24:13,436 to understand that. 713 00:24:13,796 --> 00:24:14,206 Super. 714 00:24:14,206 --> 00:24:16,805 And, and, like, I think the stress this time is a bit 715 00:24:16,806 --> 00:24:19,125 different and, and it, it's pervasive through these 716 00:24:19,126 --> 00:24:22,355 organizations because it's not just about like, "Oh, something 717 00:24:22,355 --> 00:24:25,425 is happening to us that's going to make us have to change, 718 00:24:25,705 --> 00:24:27,285 and we're gonna have to lay people off, or we're gonna 719 00:24:27,285 --> 00:24:28,805 have to fire people, we're gonna have to change things." 720 00:24:29,346 --> 00:24:31,135 In the past, there were always jobs for those 721 00:24:31,135 --> 00:24:32,275 people to go to, right? 722 00:24:32,275 --> 00:24:32,286 Yeah. 723 00:24:32,286 --> 00:24:34,745 Now you're saying like, "The job doesn't exist at our company 724 00:24:34,745 --> 00:24:38,445 anymore, nor the 15 other big competitors you would've gone to 725 00:24:38,475 --> 00:24:41,546 historically to fill that role, to fill that need in your own 726 00:24:41,546 --> 00:24:44,330 life." And so I think the stress and the pressure and the angst 727 00:24:44,330 --> 00:24:46,925 and the anxiety is significantly higher this time around. 728 00:24:47,085 --> 00:24:47,465 It is. 729 00:24:47,465 --> 00:24:50,095 And, and look, I genuinely believe, and, and time will 730 00:24:50,095 --> 00:24:52,345 tell, but I genuinely believe that, that this will also 731 00:24:52,345 --> 00:24:54,125 create more new companies, which will then become- 732 00:24:54,125 --> 00:24:55,115 100% … you know, another. 733 00:24:55,296 --> 00:24:56,105 But they ain't there yet. 734 00:24:56,146 --> 00:24:57,906 That's a, an opportunity for later, but it's 735 00:24:57,906 --> 00:24:58,795 a problem for now. 736 00:24:59,046 --> 00:25:01,936 So what we end up having to do as, as, as founders, as 737 00:25:01,955 --> 00:25:05,535 leadership, is a hard reset, a straight up hard reset. 738 00:25:05,555 --> 00:25:09,576 And I think most leadership, most founders, most CEOs, 739 00:25:09,756 --> 00:25:11,516 haven't gotten the message yet. 740 00:25:11,686 --> 00:25:13,685 They know the storm's coming, they can feel it. 741 00:25:13,705 --> 00:25:13,725 Yeah. 742 00:25:13,726 --> 00:25:14,396 They're smart. 743 00:25:14,705 --> 00:25:17,285 Ryan, I don't think they actually appreciate 744 00:25:17,506 --> 00:25:19,435 how much things have to change, 'cause it's hard. 745 00:25:19,686 --> 00:25:20,405 I think it's hard. 746 00:25:20,405 --> 00:25:20,415 Mm-hmm. 747 00:25:20,415 --> 00:25:22,645 I think, I think they maybe do understand it. 748 00:25:22,716 --> 00:25:24,646 They've intellectualized it, they know, and they 749 00:25:24,646 --> 00:25:25,565 just can't do it yet. 750 00:25:25,585 --> 00:25:27,775 And, and it's this… This is gonna be harsh. 751 00:25:27,775 --> 00:25:29,655 I'm gonna, I'll try to say it as kindly as I can, but it's harsh. 752 00:25:29,756 --> 00:25:32,385 It's sense of loyalty to the old org chart, right? 753 00:25:32,385 --> 00:25:32,396 Yeah. 754 00:25:32,396 --> 00:25:34,405 And unfortunately- Yeah … loyalty to the old org chart 755 00:25:34,415 --> 00:25:36,815 is not actually loyalty to your people, because at some 756 00:25:36,815 --> 00:25:39,585 point, it's actually the fastest way to lose all of them. 757 00:25:39,725 --> 00:25:39,835 Yeah. 758 00:25:39,835 --> 00:25:41,925 Because a company that doesn't adapt- It sucks … doesn't 759 00:25:41,925 --> 00:25:42,725 get to keep anybody. 760 00:25:42,885 --> 00:25:43,315 It sucks. 761 00:25:43,315 --> 00:25:43,575 Right? 762 00:25:43,575 --> 00:25:46,575 And, and the hard reset is sort of the humane option compared 763 00:25:46,576 --> 00:25:48,185 to just going under, right? 764 00:25:48,186 --> 00:25:50,015 Because that's the other choice, and it sucks. 765 00:25:50,025 --> 00:25:50,045 Yeah. 766 00:25:50,245 --> 00:25:53,635 There is no fun way around this, right? 767 00:25:53,675 --> 00:25:56,595 And we're conditioned to exactly the opposite, right? 768 00:25:56,595 --> 00:25:58,635 We used to fight over head count in budget meetings like 769 00:25:58,635 --> 00:26:00,006 it was a status symbol, right? 770 00:26:00,155 --> 00:26:02,245 We were trying to get as many people as we could, right? 771 00:26:02,245 --> 00:26:03,795 It turns out we were collecting liabilities 772 00:26:03,795 --> 00:26:04,845 and calling them trophies. 773 00:26:04,875 --> 00:26:04,895 Yeah. 774 00:26:04,905 --> 00:26:09,615 In this world, doesn't change what has to just happen now, 775 00:26:09,735 --> 00:26:11,245 and it's awful and it's hard. 776 00:26:11,506 --> 00:26:13,485 Part of that hard reset, of course, is people, right? 777 00:26:13,485 --> 00:26:15,655 And w- you know, we've- Yep … we've definitely covered that. 778 00:26:15,896 --> 00:26:17,905 Let's talk about the other side of it, which is the, 779 00:26:18,135 --> 00:26:21,705 not what's changed, what's broken, what's lost, but how 780 00:26:21,705 --> 00:26:26,015 do we rethink who our business even is in this new era? 781 00:26:26,015 --> 00:26:26,125 Yeah. 782 00:26:26,336 --> 00:26:27,405 Okay, so let's go this way. 783 00:26:27,735 --> 00:26:31,096 If we said five minutes ago that our business was virtual.com 784 00:26:31,226 --> 00:26:33,195 and we're a virtual assistant business, we have hundreds 785 00:26:33,196 --> 00:26:35,265 of virtual assistants that people can pay for monthly. 786 00:26:35,545 --> 00:26:38,975 But the hard pivot is no more virtual assistants. 787 00:26:39,146 --> 00:26:41,985 Now, again- Yeah … we covered the people aspect of it, 788 00:26:41,985 --> 00:26:43,655 so, so we're not overlooking the people aspect of it. 789 00:26:43,665 --> 00:26:46,666 We're saying, but even if you had some way to contend with 790 00:26:46,666 --> 00:26:51,080 that- You still, the biggest part of this reset is you 791 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,550 have to stop thinking about how you used to make money. 792 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:54,580 Yeah. 793 00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:56,320 It doesn't matter anymore. 794 00:26:56,750 --> 00:26:57,110 Right. 795 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:58,750 And that's the hard part. 796 00:26:59,090 --> 00:27:00,470 Everyone's trying to protect their stuff. 797 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,119 They're trying to say- Yeah … "Hey, let's just not 798 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:05,329 make this change." And it's like, dude, the people that 799 00:27:05,329 --> 00:27:08,319 are gonna win aren't the people that protected their stuff. 800 00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:09,090 No, man. 801 00:27:09,090 --> 00:27:11,549 It's the people that set it on fire, I hate to even 802 00:27:11,550 --> 00:27:13,999 say it, literally what it's called, and restart it. 803 00:27:14,609 --> 00:27:16,190 Which is why we're saying you gotta start again. 804 00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:19,399 I think we're seeing a lot of people in a position now where 805 00:27:19,409 --> 00:27:21,910 they're protecting their current business model, and that's in 806 00:27:21,910 --> 00:27:24,999 direct conflict- Right … with the business model that would 807 00:27:24,999 --> 00:27:26,269 win in the next five years. 808 00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:26,589 Right. 809 00:27:26,619 --> 00:27:27,879 The model loses, right? 810 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,519 The, if that's the game you're playing right now, 811 00:27:29,519 --> 00:27:30,499 you're already losing. 812 00:27:30,499 --> 00:27:32,810 The only choice is whether you cannibalize yourself on purpose 813 00:27:32,810 --> 00:27:35,859 or let someone with nothing to protect do it for you, right? 814 00:27:35,869 --> 00:27:35,949 Yes. 815 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,979 You've either gotta eat some of yourself or somebody 816 00:27:37,979 --> 00:27:38,690 else is gonna do it. 817 00:27:38,919 --> 00:27:39,590 Here's a great test. 818 00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:40,770 One way or the other. 819 00:27:40,770 --> 00:27:44,549 Ask yourself as a founder, if you were entering your 820 00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:47,159 business, your industry, you know, whatever you're in right 821 00:27:47,159 --> 00:27:50,539 now, would your business plan look to build exactly the 822 00:27:50,540 --> 00:27:51,989 product that you have right now? 823 00:27:52,290 --> 00:27:55,019 Like- Yeah … for most people, I can't fathom that 824 00:27:55,029 --> 00:27:56,310 that would be true, right? 825 00:27:56,319 --> 00:27:58,289 So- Yeah … if, if you were saying, "Hey, I'm gonna 826 00:27:58,290 --> 00:28:01,169 go back to startup mode," you would build something 827 00:28:01,190 --> 00:28:03,799 so geometrically different than what you have now. 828 00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:03,964 Yes. 829 00:28:03,964 --> 00:28:06,389 And the only reason you're building what you have the way 830 00:28:06,389 --> 00:28:10,349 you are now is because of the liability of what you have now. 831 00:28:10,349 --> 00:28:10,870 Right. 832 00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:14,354 And what sucks is- Five seconds ago, that was your 833 00:28:14,354 --> 00:28:15,414 greatest accomplishment. 834 00:28:15,544 --> 00:28:17,324 The concept- Yeah … that it was a liability? 835 00:28:17,934 --> 00:28:19,034 Like, I'll give you an example. 836 00:28:19,454 --> 00:28:23,064 I don't know him well, but Dharmesh Shah, the, the founder 837 00:28:23,064 --> 00:28:25,224 of HubSpot- Yeah … and I have had a good relationship, 838 00:28:25,243 --> 00:28:27,574 you know, just for a long time, uh, for s- long s- 839 00:28:27,724 --> 00:28:29,313 since before, uh, HubSpot. 840 00:28:29,313 --> 00:28:33,234 And, and a few weeks ago, Dharmesh p- posted 841 00:28:33,234 --> 00:28:35,093 something on LinkedIn that I just, I haven't been able 842 00:28:35,093 --> 00:28:35,884 to stop thinking about. 843 00:28:36,294 --> 00:28:39,133 He posts something to the effect of, I don't… You can look 844 00:28:39,134 --> 00:28:41,703 it up, but, uh, uh, the effect of, "Hey, I just bought a bunch 845 00:28:41,703 --> 00:28:44,854 of HubSpot stock," because the, the stock took a header. 846 00:28:44,854 --> 00:28:45,203 Yeah, yeah. 847 00:28:45,363 --> 00:28:47,844 Because the analysts are all saying that, you know, our days 848 00:28:47,844 --> 00:28:49,633 are numbered, and, you know, SaaS is getting blown up, and 849 00:28:49,633 --> 00:28:50,544 everything else like that. 850 00:28:50,553 --> 00:28:50,573 Yeah. 851 00:28:51,033 --> 00:28:53,903 And he's saying, "But I don't believe that hype. Yes, I'm well 852 00:28:53,904 --> 00:28:54,973 aware…" He's such a smart guy. 853 00:28:55,343 --> 00:28:57,953 "I'm well aware of what's happening, but here's why 854 00:28:57,963 --> 00:28:59,843 I think HubSpot is in a phenomenal position to 855 00:28:59,843 --> 00:29:00,633 do something about it." 856 00:29:01,163 --> 00:29:02,023 Here's why I bring this up. 857 00:29:02,654 --> 00:29:06,284 I wonder if Dharmesh, behind closed doors, if I were to say, 858 00:29:06,334 --> 00:29:09,794 "Dharmesh, if you were Dharmesh from 20 years ago and you were 859 00:29:09,794 --> 00:29:12,303 starting over- Yeah … would you build exactly what you 860 00:29:12,303 --> 00:29:15,443 have now?" I can't imagine, an amazing amount of respect 861 00:29:15,443 --> 00:29:17,184 for him, he would say yes. 862 00:29:17,373 --> 00:29:19,324 Maybe, but I mean, I, again, I can't put words 863 00:29:19,324 --> 00:29:22,443 in his mouth, but I use him specifically for a few reasons. 864 00:29:22,674 --> 00:29:25,693 One, because what he's built has been phenomenal. 865 00:29:25,763 --> 00:29:27,663 I mean, an absolute- Yeah … juggernaut at every level. 866 00:29:27,703 --> 00:29:27,873 Yep. 867 00:29:28,144 --> 00:29:30,823 Second, he's so smart, right? 868 00:29:30,823 --> 00:29:32,574 I mean, just like- Right … just absolute. 869 00:29:33,013 --> 00:29:35,433 And third, he's in front of the curve. 870 00:29:35,663 --> 00:29:37,343 Like, like, this guy isn't like some guy who's 871 00:29:37,343 --> 00:29:38,944 like, you know, we, we should put out to pasture. 872 00:29:39,113 --> 00:29:40,333 Like, dude is on his grind. 873 00:29:40,833 --> 00:29:41,744 Uh, he's at the front of it. 874 00:29:42,073 --> 00:29:44,643 And I wonder when he sits, you know, staring at the 875 00:29:44,643 --> 00:29:47,944 ceiling at night, if he's like, "Shit, I'm in trouble, 876 00:29:47,944 --> 00:29:52,056 man." Like, I- What I built, which made me a billionaire, 877 00:29:52,486 --> 00:29:55,776 is now a massive anchor, and I'm smart enough to know what 878 00:29:55,776 --> 00:29:57,396 to build next, and I can't. 879 00:29:57,406 --> 00:29:57,426 Yeah. 880 00:29:57,736 --> 00:29:58,276 I can't. 881 00:29:58,346 --> 00:29:58,616 Yeah. 882 00:29:58,706 --> 00:30:00,296 And that's the interesting thing, right? 883 00:30:00,296 --> 00:30:02,566 And I, I started wondering about that actually when he 884 00:30:02,566 --> 00:30:04,755 started building some of these little side quest projects. 885 00:30:04,766 --> 00:30:05,025 Yeah, yep. 886 00:30:05,286 --> 00:30:05,526 Right? 887 00:30:05,556 --> 00:30:07,766 Like the, the little agentic company and some other stuff, 888 00:30:07,775 --> 00:30:12,735 and it was like, to me, those looked exactly like, this is 889 00:30:12,736 --> 00:30:15,375 what we should be building, but we can't because we're too 890 00:30:15,375 --> 00:30:17,365 big inside HubSpot, so we're gonna go build them out here. 891 00:30:17,365 --> 00:30:18,055 I'm gonna go do it over here. 892 00:30:18,056 --> 00:30:18,705 I'm gonna go do it over there. 893 00:30:18,896 --> 00:30:20,946 To me, that was exactly what those looked like. 894 00:30:21,175 --> 00:30:22,096 This is what I'm saying. 895 00:30:22,096 --> 00:30:25,616 This is, is a perfect example of someone who can 896 00:30:25,625 --> 00:30:28,265 see what's next- Yep … but their hands are tied. 897 00:30:28,295 --> 00:30:30,926 Their economics don't allow them to do it. 898 00:30:31,276 --> 00:30:34,095 Now- Yep … again, I have complete faith in Dharmesh. 899 00:30:34,125 --> 00:30:37,166 I'm sure he's gonna find a way to do something, even if it 900 00:30:37,166 --> 00:30:39,206 means building HubSpot 2, right? 901 00:30:39,206 --> 00:30:40,715 And that becomes the new thing, and- Yeah … and 902 00:30:40,715 --> 00:30:43,196 people, you know, float out of HubSpot 1 to HubSpot 2. 903 00:30:43,445 --> 00:30:45,546 I'm confident someone like him can figure it out. 904 00:30:45,785 --> 00:30:50,365 But I use him because even he has this, this problem, 905 00:30:50,495 --> 00:30:51,585 and dude's smart as hell. 906 00:30:51,725 --> 00:30:53,736 The problem isn't about how smart the founder is. 907 00:30:53,736 --> 00:30:55,355 I'm using him because he's so good. 908 00:30:55,866 --> 00:30:58,235 The- Yeah … problem is with the dead weight that 909 00:30:58,245 --> 00:31:00,576 he's carrying- Yeah, yeah … which, my point of this, 910 00:31:00,836 --> 00:31:02,526 was his greatest success. 911 00:31:03,035 --> 00:31:03,535 Bananas. 912 00:31:03,945 --> 00:31:04,245 Yeah. 913 00:31:04,265 --> 00:31:06,436 The very thing that you set out to build, the very thing 914 00:31:06,436 --> 00:31:10,965 that you use to measure success becomes a massive liability 915 00:31:11,025 --> 00:31:12,885 in, in this new world. 916 00:31:12,936 --> 00:31:14,586 Yeah, it's absolutely wild. 917 00:31:14,896 --> 00:31:17,005 It's a lot to just intellectualize, right? 918 00:31:17,006 --> 00:31:18,505 Forget about actually doing something about it. 919 00:31:18,506 --> 00:31:20,785 You gotta spend a fair amount of time just going, 920 00:31:21,025 --> 00:31:23,005 "What the fuck?" Right? 921 00:31:23,006 --> 00:31:24,775 Okay, not, not even what am I gonna do about this. 922 00:31:24,875 --> 00:31:24,955 Yeah. 923 00:31:24,955 --> 00:31:27,015 Just like, what just happened? 924 00:31:27,025 --> 00:31:28,085 Like, huh? 925 00:31:28,195 --> 00:31:28,515 Huh? 926 00:31:28,565 --> 00:31:29,055 Yeah, right. 927 00:31:29,055 --> 00:31:31,145 How can they just change the rules that fast? 928 00:31:31,165 --> 00:31:32,936 Like, don't, do, do they knock? 929 00:31:32,936 --> 00:31:33,985 Do they send a notice? 930 00:31:33,985 --> 00:31:35,495 Do we get, like, 30 days, something? 931 00:31:35,616 --> 00:31:35,986 Nope. 932 00:31:36,175 --> 00:31:40,535 And what's interesting in his case is that he is the guy that 933 00:31:40,535 --> 00:31:41,945 does the disrupting, right? 934 00:31:41,975 --> 00:31:44,505 I mean, HubSpot was a juggernaut at every possible level. 935 00:31:44,506 --> 00:31:45,745 You know, w- w- uh, we're a client. 936 00:31:46,045 --> 00:31:49,785 But we look at that bill every month, and it's a big ass bill. 937 00:31:49,795 --> 00:31:49,815 Yeah. 938 00:31:50,195 --> 00:31:50,855 And we're like, 939 00:31:52,875 --> 00:31:53,145 "Hmm. 940 00:31:53,195 --> 00:31:55,615 How do we make that a, a not big ass bill?" So next HubSpot 941 00:31:55,855 --> 00:31:59,445 that comes along, when Dharmesh 2 comes along, right, and he's 942 00:31:59,445 --> 00:32:01,975 like, "Hey, I can do that, the same thing for 10% of the cost," 943 00:32:02,705 --> 00:32:05,676 gonna be hard to say no, and that's what he's dealing with. 944 00:32:05,676 --> 00:32:07,065 So now, here's where it gets interesting. 945 00:32:07,436 --> 00:32:10,465 All of these founders, all of us, have to go to these 946 00:32:10,805 --> 00:32:12,765 bold new frontiers, right? 947 00:32:12,765 --> 00:32:12,775 Yeah. 948 00:32:12,775 --> 00:32:16,515 Like, we basically have to say, as painful as it is, 949 00:32:16,915 --> 00:32:19,955 we're being forced to restart whether we like it or not, 950 00:32:20,535 --> 00:32:23,715 and we have to build our plan, our strategy at this point. 951 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,310 has to exist around ideas we've never implemented before or were 952 00:32:29,310 --> 00:32:32,770 afraid to- Yep … around a cost structure that never existed 953 00:32:32,779 --> 00:32:35,920 before, around, in some cases, a market that doesn't exist yet. 954 00:32:35,930 --> 00:32:35,950 Yeah. 955 00:32:35,980 --> 00:32:37,870 Because again, we're building things at a new rate that 956 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,480 haven't, hasn't been proven- Yep … in a competitive 957 00:32:40,489 --> 00:32:42,709 market that we cannot predict. 958 00:32:43,129 --> 00:32:43,269 Right. 959 00:32:43,270 --> 00:32:43,879 Holy shit. 960 00:32:44,430 --> 00:32:46,080 You know who does really well with that? 961 00:32:46,629 --> 00:32:47,119 Startups. 962 00:32:47,709 --> 00:32:48,019 Startups. 963 00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:50,189 Yeah, it's so funny, man, like- Startups do really well with 964 00:32:50,199 --> 00:32:52,679 that … when we look at it now, it's like, you know, startup 965 00:32:52,709 --> 00:32:55,089 us had hope and no idea, right? 966 00:32:55,270 --> 00:32:55,300 Yep. 967 00:32:55,359 --> 00:32:57,739 Current us has a track record and a mortgage. 968 00:32:57,979 --> 00:32:58,179 Yeah. 969 00:32:58,180 --> 00:33:00,640 And I'm honestly not sure that like, yeah, we don't 970 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,620 look at that and go, "Oh man, it'd be so nice to be back in 971 00:33:02,620 --> 00:33:03,460 that condition again," right? 972 00:33:03,460 --> 00:33:05,580 Like, you worked- Well- … so hard to get out of it, and it's 973 00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:07,250 like, can we have that back now? 974 00:33:07,489 --> 00:33:09,610 Can I just go back to having nothing but ideas? 975 00:33:09,610 --> 00:33:11,249 Because it'd be perfect right now. 976 00:33:11,340 --> 00:33:12,629 But here's what I'm fascinated by. 977 00:33:12,649 --> 00:33:15,219 And you know, we're all forced to relive this journey 978 00:33:15,219 --> 00:33:16,029 whether we want to or not. 979 00:33:16,029 --> 00:33:16,569 You know what it'd be like? 980 00:33:16,889 --> 00:33:20,569 It's like if every single person in life had to go back 981 00:33:20,569 --> 00:33:21,729 to freshman year of high school. 982 00:33:21,790 --> 00:33:23,490 Like, for some reason- Yeah … there was some alternate 983 00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:26,679 universe where the only way to survive were to like, take 984 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,369 our old ancient asses and drag us back to freshman year. 985 00:33:30,369 --> 00:33:33,000 We're getting pushed in lockers or… Dude, I'm so ready. 986 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,450 I don't fit in a locker anymore, bro. 987 00:33:34,460 --> 00:33:34,660 Yeah. 988 00:33:34,750 --> 00:33:37,109 Like, you, you can't stuff me in there. 989 00:33:37,150 --> 00:33:39,579 Even if you oiled me up first, I won't fit in a locker. 990 00:33:39,629 --> 00:33:40,929 But here's why I use that analogy. 991 00:33:41,129 --> 00:33:44,210 I use that analogy because the difference would be we know 992 00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:45,789 what to expect this time, right? 993 00:33:45,789 --> 00:33:45,849 Yeah. 994 00:33:45,849 --> 00:33:47,829 When we did it the first time, you know, when you were in high 995 00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:49,499 school for the first time, you didn't know what to expect. 996 00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:51,759 Everything was bigger than- Yeah … it really was and et cetera. 997 00:33:52,059 --> 00:33:53,039 Uh, similar with the startup. 998 00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:55,420 We went in, everything was more consequential than we 999 00:33:55,420 --> 00:33:56,419 thought it would be, et cetera. 1000 00:33:56,879 --> 00:34:00,239 At least this time around, when we go to do it again, 1001 00:34:00,489 --> 00:34:02,290 we kind of know how to operate as a startup. 1002 00:34:02,430 --> 00:34:04,139 Now, it doesn't mean we're gonna be successful. 1003 00:34:04,379 --> 00:34:08,480 It just means that massive gap of lack of experience 1004 00:34:08,669 --> 00:34:09,380 isn't there anymore. 1005 00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:09,599 Yeah. 1006 00:34:09,939 --> 00:34:11,019 But you know who it is there for? 1007 00:34:11,419 --> 00:34:12,139 Our competitors. 1008 00:34:12,610 --> 00:34:15,209 See, right, when at Startups.com, when we restart, 1009 00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:17,129 right, and we become, you know, a startup again, 1010 00:34:17,129 --> 00:34:20,039 even after 15 years, we're competing with people who've 1011 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:20,879 never done this before. 1012 00:34:20,919 --> 00:34:22,659 By and large- Yeah … people who've never done this before. 1013 00:34:22,669 --> 00:34:23,530 Their freshman effort. 1014 00:34:23,979 --> 00:34:25,569 And it doesn't mean they're not capable. 1015 00:34:25,959 --> 00:34:27,719 It just means we're as capable as they are. 1016 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:29,049 The difference is we know what the fuck we're doing. 1017 00:34:29,889 --> 00:34:29,999 Yeah. 1018 00:34:29,999 --> 00:34:31,839 Like, we know exactly- We get to, we get to go back to play 1019 00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:33,860 the level one dungeon, but we get to bring all of our 1020 00:34:33,860 --> 00:34:34,930 experience points- Exactly 1021 00:34:34,930 --> 00:34:36,990 and all the awesome loot that we gathered across 1022 00:34:36,990 --> 00:34:37,619 all those adventures. 1023 00:34:37,620 --> 00:34:40,520 Like, I'm bringing the level 52 flaming sword with me. 1024 00:34:41,570 --> 00:34:41,711 That's what I'm saying. 1025 00:34:41,711 --> 00:34:42,750 I don't give a shit what you say. 1026 00:34:43,779 --> 00:34:44,379 Exactly. 1027 00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:46,869 And so this is where it gets fascinating. 1028 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,179 While we've got this forced reset and it's painful and 1029 00:34:49,180 --> 00:34:51,899 it's awful, and again, we, we covered that plenty, we also 1030 00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:56,329 have this new world where we have this unique experience and 1031 00:34:56,329 --> 00:34:59,469 an opportunity, right, at this incredible, you know, wealth 1032 00:34:59,469 --> 00:35:02,589 creation engine to be able to navigate this thing and hack 1033 00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:05,070 and slash and, and kind of, you know, rebuild ourselves- Yep 1034 00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:06,250 in this new version. 1035 00:35:06,669 --> 00:35:08,949 I think that's incredibly exciting, right? 1036 00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:10,840 Right, you and I, believe it or not, aren't the 1037 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,280 youngest guys, but- Yeah. 1038 00:35:13,770 --> 00:35:14,300 Go on. 1039 00:35:14,490 --> 00:35:15,820 Tell me more about this. 1040 00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:17,870 I know, man, I got an awful lot of fight in me. 1041 00:35:18,010 --> 00:35:20,730 I am- Yeah … ready to reload, right? 1042 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,910 I am ready to go back to that dungeon again. 1043 00:35:23,220 --> 00:35:24,510 Well, dude, do you know why? 1044 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,790 Because energy just got taken off the table. 1045 00:35:27,030 --> 00:35:27,259 Mm-hmm. 1046 00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:30,530 Because you no longer have to survive all of that brutal, 1047 00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:32,449 like, build-up to the point where we can afford the team, 1048 00:35:32,449 --> 00:35:34,170 where we can afford the stuff, where we can do the thing. 1049 00:35:34,170 --> 00:35:35,639 Like- Yep … that's all gone. 1050 00:35:36,060 --> 00:35:36,250 Yep. 1051 00:35:36,259 --> 00:35:41,450 You don't have to have that just keep rowing and keep rowing and 1052 00:35:41,450 --> 00:35:45,570 keep rowing and f- hopefully we finally clear the wave break. 1053 00:35:45,649 --> 00:35:46,450 We don't have to do that anymore. 1054 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,389 We don't need- Yep … the energy. 1055 00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:49,269 We need the experience, we need the knowledge, we 1056 00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:51,589 need the desire, of course, and we've always had that. 1057 00:35:51,590 --> 00:35:54,389 And so, like, I think by taking that level of grind 1058 00:35:54,390 --> 00:35:56,039 and energy, not that they're not gonna be a grind, but 1059 00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:57,039 y- you get where I'm going. 1060 00:35:57,070 --> 00:35:57,600 Like- Yeah 1061 00:35:57,609 --> 00:36:00,949 some of that just absolute shit uphill- Yeah … is gone. 1062 00:36:00,949 --> 00:36:03,190 That's why the competitors are just already right here. 1063 00:36:03,329 --> 00:36:03,529 Yep. 1064 00:36:03,539 --> 00:36:05,949 But yeah, man, I… Look, we've never been afraid of a fight. 1065 00:36:05,980 --> 00:36:06,609 We're founders. 1066 00:36:09,879 --> 00:36:10,081 This is what we signed up for. 1067 00:36:10,081 --> 00:36:10,810 And so- That's it … like, it feels like it's about 1068 00:36:10,810 --> 00:36:11,809 to be a lot of fun. 1069 00:36:12,070 --> 00:36:14,339 And yeah, there's gonna be some major challenges to navigate, 1070 00:36:14,340 --> 00:36:16,960 the people problems being really the only one that I don't 1071 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,309 have awesome solutions for. 1072 00:36:18,430 --> 00:36:18,700 Yeah. 1073 00:36:18,919 --> 00:36:21,600 The rest of it I feel like we've got, and just gotta figure out 1074 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,610 how to make the rest of it work. 1075 00:36:22,790 --> 00:36:24,729 But the good news is, and this is what I want folks 1076 00:36:24,729 --> 00:36:27,420 to take away from this, the good news is the people that 1077 00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:30,099 are gonna survive this little apocalypse- Yep … are 1078 00:36:30,140 --> 00:36:31,279 founders, are startups. 1079 00:36:31,279 --> 00:36:31,519 Yeah. 1080 00:36:31,739 --> 00:36:32,009 Right? 1081 00:36:32,140 --> 00:36:32,920 Which guess what? 1082 00:36:32,949 --> 00:36:36,489 It just so happens that's exactly what we are, right? 1083 00:36:36,489 --> 00:36:38,010 Like, we were- Yeah … literally made 1084 00:36:38,019 --> 00:36:41,119 to do this exact job at this exact moment in time. 1085 00:36:41,349 --> 00:36:44,539 Now we're being dusted off and, and getting the, the equipment 1086 00:36:44,549 --> 00:36:46,910 put back on us and pushed out in the field whether we like it or 1087 00:36:46,910 --> 00:36:49,510 not, but- I'm gonna regrow hair just for this adventure, Will. 1088 00:36:51,142 --> 00:36:51,692 I could have mine. 1089 00:36:52,162 --> 00:36:55,912 But this is also our moment to prove that we are 1090 00:36:55,912 --> 00:36:56,972 the founder that we are. 1091 00:36:57,022 --> 00:36:58,242 And again, we've proved it once. 1092 00:36:58,242 --> 00:36:59,962 There's no reason we can't do it again. 1093 00:36:59,972 --> 00:36:59,992 Yeah. 1094 00:37:00,302 --> 00:37:03,152 I think for a lot of folks right now, there's so much 1095 00:37:03,162 --> 00:37:04,982 fear about what's happening, you know, w- with these 1096 00:37:04,982 --> 00:37:07,282 existing organizations, and it's justified. 1097 00:37:07,602 --> 00:37:10,752 But I think the difference is if we step back and we 1098 00:37:10,752 --> 00:37:14,012 rethink about who we are when we attack this problem, and 1099 00:37:14,012 --> 00:37:16,771 we say, "Let's stop thinking about it as an existing company 1100 00:37:16,772 --> 00:37:17,932 that has these liabilities. 1101 00:37:18,112 --> 00:37:20,362 Let's start thinking about it as a brand-new company, a 1102 00:37:20,372 --> 00:37:24,021 fresh company that is exactly tailor-made for this type of 1103 00:37:24,022 --> 00:37:26,791 thing, led by people who have done this before," then we 1104 00:37:26,792 --> 00:37:27,902 turn into something different. 1105 00:37:28,132 --> 00:37:30,371 We don't turn into the big, slow Death Star. 1106 00:37:30,522 --> 00:37:32,642 We turn into the TIE fighter… Or, I'm sorry, the, the 1107 00:37:32,761 --> 00:37:35,861 X-wing fighter that can fly- Careful there, dark side. 1108 00:37:35,871 --> 00:37:35,891 Yeah. 1109 00:37:36,371 --> 00:37:37,731 I couldn't help but go to the dark side. 1110 00:37:38,101 --> 00:37:41,822 Uh, we turn into this fast, nimble, powerful thing with 1111 00:37:41,822 --> 00:37:43,571 a ton of experience, right? 1112 00:37:43,851 --> 00:37:46,812 And I think that is what's gonna d- differentiate the 1113 00:37:46,821 --> 00:37:49,781 companies that languish and get beat up from the 1114 00:37:49,781 --> 00:37:53,271 companies that absolutely restart, reset, and kick ass. 1115 00:37:54,561 --> 00:37:56,171 Overthinking your startup because you're going it alone? 1116 00:37:56,622 --> 00:37:58,412 You don't have to, and honestly, you shouldn't. 1117 00:37:58,722 --> 00:38:01,332 Because instead, you can learn directly from peers 1118 00:38:01,332 --> 00:38:02,502 who've been in your shoes. 1119 00:38:02,711 --> 00:38:05,042 Connect with bootstrap founders and the advisors 1120 00:38:05,042 --> 00:38:07,471 helping them win in the Startups.com community. 1121 00:38:07,641 --> 00:38:12,231 Check out the Startups.com community at www.startups.com 1122 00:38:12,351 --> 00:38:13,271 to see if it's for you. 1123 00:38:13,531 --> 00:38:14,572 Could be just the thing you need. 1124 00:38:14,821 --> 00:38:15,762 I hope to see you inside