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Carol Cox:
If you've been feeling like your voice is a

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little quieter than it should be,

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or you're not sure if your story matters,

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this episode is for you.

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You're going to love my conversation with

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repeat guest Tiffany Hawk on this episode of

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the Speaking Your Brand podcast.

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Hi, and welcome to the Speaking Your Brand

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podcast. I'm your host,

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Carol Cox. Today my guest is Tiffany Hawk,

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a return guest. This is the third time she's

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been on the podcast.

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I'll make sure to include links in the show

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notes to the previous two episodes.

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You'll definitely want to check those out.

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What we're going to talk about today is why

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it's so important to tell your story and

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share your message, even if,

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and especially if, I would say you don't feel

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ready. This goes for your public speaking for

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maybe a book that you want to write wherever

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you want to use your voice.

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And this is especially true because it's

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March and this is Women's History Month.

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As those of you who've been listening to the

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podcast for a while, know my master's degree

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is in history with a focus on women's history

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and gender studies.

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I gravitated towards history because I was

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always looking for the women in the stories.

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I wanted to know as I was reading these

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history books, what were the women thinking?

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What were they doing? What were their ideas

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for a better society?

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And too often they were just literally

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missing. They were nowhere there.

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So that's why when studied history, because I

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was looking for the women.

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And that's exactly why I love the work that

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we do here at Speaking Your Brand,

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because we help women tell their stories not

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only for themselves, but for that positive

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impact in your industry and in your

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community. Well, my guest,

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Tiffany Hawk, is definitely along the same

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lines. She is a published author,

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and we're going to talk about another book

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that she has along the way and her

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experiences with that,

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that you're going to learn a lot from.

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She's also a book coach.

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We have worked together closely for the past

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five years. I can't believe it's been five

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years. We have run retreats together.

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She's been to speaking your brand retreat

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that we held. We're going to talk more about

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an upcoming retreat that we have later this

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year that you'll definitely going to want to

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learn about. Tiffany, welcome back to the

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podcast.

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Tiffany Hawk:
Thank you. Hi. And I don't know if you

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remember this, but my undergraduate degree is

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in history.

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Carol Cox:
So there you go. That's,

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that's why this is why we're such a great

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pair. I love it.

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Okay, so Tiffany, before we get into talking

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more specifics about writing and books and

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using your voice, whether it's through the

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written word or through the spoken word, tell

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us a little bit. Give us a recap of your

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background and how you got to the work that

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you do here today.

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Tiffany Hawk:
Oh, well, it's a little some of it's an

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accident. Like I was a journalist and then I

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got my MFA in creative writing and became a

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published novelist. And then the coaching

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part happened by accident because people just

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started coming to me for how did you navigate

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the publishing industry? How did you make

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this happen? So I started working with

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friends and their referrals and then started

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really having success in helping people,

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land agents and get book deals.

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And it kind of became my thing.

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And unintentionally.

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But it's been really, really fun. And I love

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especially working with women.

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Carol Cox:
Well, I have been through your breakthrough

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book proposal program that you ran that you

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run online. I went through it a couple of

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years ago. And as I mentioned,

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we hosted a joint writing and speaking

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retreat last year.

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In 2025, we have another one coming up this

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year that I, I'll again,

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we'll talk about a little bit more in a

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second, but so, Tiffany,

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tell me a little bit about the women that you

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work with. So when they come to you,

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what stage are they in generally with the

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books that they're working on? Why do they

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want to write a book?

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What kinds of books are they working on?

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What are their goals for their books? So kind

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of give me a profile of these women.

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Tiffany Hawk:
So as far as where they're starting,

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they're coming in from all different places.

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But what they have, like from just having an

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idea to having a proposal that for some

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reason isn't working and they need help

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making it better so that they get interest

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from agents and from publishers,

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or if they decide they want to self-publish.

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So the people that I'm working with,

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especially women who have something to say

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that whether it's a memoir or it's more of a

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teaching book or something along their

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expertise or business book,

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health book, what they have in common is

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something that can not just be a vanity

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project, but help people see the world in a

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new way. It might be just seeing a different

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perspective, or actually helping the reader

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with something of their own that they're

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going through, if it was more prescriptive

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nonfiction. So no matter where they're coming

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in, some people are wanting to traditionally

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publish, some are wanting to self-publish,

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and most are open to both.

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I'm finding more and more every year people

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are open to both, which I think is really

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smart because I think it's a lot less about

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the mode of publication and more about having

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those. The key foundation is the same no

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matter how you want to publish.

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If you don't have those key ingredients,

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you're ingredients, you're not going to be

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successful at either of them.

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Carol Cox:
And what drives them to want to write a book?

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Are they seeing it as a as an asset for their

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business? Have they always wanted to be a

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writer and publish a book?

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Are they looking at it as one more thing to

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check off the list that we think that we're

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supposed to be doing?

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Tiffany Hawk:
Oh, I think most people have a little bit of

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all of those things.

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But the last one, if you're doing it just to

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check something off the list, I don't think

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you should be doing it. It's not the time you

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really need to have something that you're

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burning to say in order to go through the

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long haul of the process,

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but also to have a book that stands out and

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that is meaningful. And there's way too many

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books out there for people to gravitate

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towards something that's just,

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you know, can I say half assed?

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Yes, yes, that's out there.

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So some people are burning to write a book

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and I and they've just always wanted to see

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their, um, I mean, not just see their name in

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print. That's a little bit just of an ego

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thing, but really wanted to write a book.

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They're book lovers, or they have something

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that lends itself to that medium.

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Other people do see it as a tool for their

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business or for their thought leadership,

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which I think is great because it is.

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I mean, especially when we're talking about

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speakers, having a book is going to make it a

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lot easier to land speaking gigs,

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and then at an event that is the best

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possible place to be selling your book.

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But I really encourage people to see it as

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more than that, not just a sales tool,

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because again, you need to be coming up with

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something that is original and meaningful

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that you care about beyond just ticking that

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box or using it.

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You want something that's going to connect

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with the reader and we can talk about how to

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make that happen too.

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Carol Cox:
Yes. And, and this is,

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I think, why the work that we do is so well

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aligned and why a lot we share a number of

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the same clients is because we are

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approaching it from the same way. Thought

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leadership. What is that unique perspective

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that you have that you want to share?

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Embedding your story why this matters to you.

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Your personal journey, or why this has

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impacted you into the message that you're

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sharing. Because you, again,

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want to have this positive change in the

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world. You want to see things that could be

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better, better best practices in your

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industry or for the people that you happen to

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work with. And so I agree with you that just

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churning out a book for the sake of churning

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out a book, which heck, ChatGPT could do for

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you right now, you don't need any of those.

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Tiffany Hawk:
We do not.

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Carol Cox:
Yes. And I feel like, and I say this a lot as

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a speaker, is that you learn so much about

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yourself as a speaker by going through the

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process of creating what we call a signature

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talk, because it really is a reflection of

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your values, your mission,

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the work that you want to put into the world,

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that bigger message that you want to share.

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And I and Tiffany sounds like a book is the

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same thing, but it is even more,

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it takes even more time to create a great

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book than it does to create a great talk.

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Tiffany Hawk:
That is very true.

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But you're 100% right.

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I think in the writing of the book,

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a lot of people worry that they're thinking

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in their head and the book doesn't seem

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ready. And it probably isn't.

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It never is when you start,

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but it's the doing.

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It is where you start to get that angle and

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to hone that idea and to learn more about

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what it is you're trying to say while you're

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wrestling through it.

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So it's not about coming up with exactly how

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you want it to be and then executing it.

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It's it's in the doing and in the writing is

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where you start to find your answers and your

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meaning.

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Carol Cox:
I think that is, that is so helpful,

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Tiffany, because I know that for sure.

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A lot of the listeners are like us introverts

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because we are introverts, even though we do

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work, you know, speaking and workshops and

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all of those introverts,

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and I probably live 99% of my life in my head

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and I have great conversations with myself in

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my head. But as far as like producing

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content, whether it's a talk or a book or

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what have you, you have to actually do.

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You have to actually do the thing.

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Not just keep it swirling in your head.

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Tiffany Hawk:
And I'm having that problem with the talk

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that I'm working on right now. It's swirling

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in my head and I need to sit down and start

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just working through it and know that,

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as Anne Lamott says, you just have to start

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with a shitty first draft.

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And sometimes and if we talk about my book,

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even something worse than that,

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like that doesn't wouldn't even count as a

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shitty first draft, because then you've got

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material and you can start organizing what

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has been in your head. And I know I'm never

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going to get there with this talk until I do

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that.

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Carol Cox:
Well, that's why you need me.

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Tiffany Hawk:
I do, and that's why we're going to schedule

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something right after this, right?

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Carol Cox:
Exactly.

265
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Tiffany Hawk:
I definitely need you.

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Carol Cox:
I know as a recovering perfectionist and

267
00:09:34,810 --> 00:09:37,010
someone who likes to put out good quality

268
00:09:37,050 --> 00:09:39,130
work, and, you know, I take pride in the work

269
00:09:39,130 --> 00:09:42,850
that I do. It is really hard for me to do the

270
00:09:42,850 --> 00:09:45,850
shitty first draft because of the editing in

271
00:09:45,850 --> 00:09:47,780
place, which I know you're not supposed to do

272
00:09:47,780 --> 00:09:49,260
when you're, when you're writing.

273
00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:52,740
And, and I, I know I need to build the muscle

274
00:09:52,740 --> 00:09:55,100
memory of just letting it be bad and letting

275
00:09:55,100 --> 00:09:57,820
it be bad for a while before it gets good.

276
00:09:57,820 --> 00:10:00,540
Do you have any tips for me or for anyone

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listening?

278
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Tiffany Hawk:
Just. Yeah, you absolutely have to embrace

279
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that. For one thing, it's like two different

280
00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:06,940
parts of your brain.

281
00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:08,700
The part of your brain that's doing the

282
00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:11,660
editing is not creative at all.

283
00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:14,300
Like I find when I'm the most creative and

284
00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:16,180
I'm really just in flow,

285
00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:18,620
I'm literally spelling things completely

286
00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:21,700
wrong, like I'm choosing the wrong two,

287
00:10:21,740 --> 00:10:25,060
2 or 2. I mean, just on really basic things,

288
00:10:25,060 --> 00:10:28,260
spelling wildly wrong because I'm in that

289
00:10:28,260 --> 00:10:30,700
creative flow that doesn't edit or get things

290
00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:33,060
right. And I one of the,

291
00:10:33,060 --> 00:10:34,940
I think it was Stephen King. I really need to

292
00:10:34,980 --> 00:10:37,180
find this attribution because I quote this

293
00:10:37,180 --> 00:10:38,900
all the time. And I never remember for sure

294
00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:40,500
if it's him, but it has.

295
00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:44,220
This image of the first draft is like

296
00:10:44,220 --> 00:10:46,670
creating a sculpture, but the first draft is

297
00:10:46,870 --> 00:10:50,030
digging up the clay and then like it's

298
00:10:50,030 --> 00:10:52,390
nothing yet, it's just a ball of clay,

299
00:10:52,390 --> 00:10:54,110
and then you can start shaping it into

300
00:10:54,150 --> 00:10:57,950
something very, very vaguely in the realm of

301
00:10:57,950 --> 00:10:59,350
what you're trying to create.

302
00:10:59,350 --> 00:11:00,910
And gradually you get to where you're

303
00:11:00,910 --> 00:11:02,990
chiseling out little tiny features.

304
00:11:02,990 --> 00:11:05,510
And a lot of people start doing the chiseling

305
00:11:05,510 --> 00:11:07,150
over and over and over of their first few

306
00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:08,990
paragraphs or their first few chapters,

307
00:11:09,190 --> 00:11:11,670
and never can finish the project because they

308
00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:13,630
don't let themselves get into that creative

309
00:11:13,630 --> 00:11:16,230
flow where, I mean, like my latest book,

310
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:18,990
I probably wrote twice as many words as what

311
00:11:18,990 --> 00:11:21,790
are actually in it and throughout what would

312
00:11:21,790 --> 00:11:23,990
be half of the amount of work that I put in.

313
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:25,870
And that's just where you ultimately have to

314
00:11:25,870 --> 00:11:28,110
get. And that sounds like a lot of time

315
00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:30,750
that's daunting, right? That's like,

316
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:31,990
I'm never writing a book.

317
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:34,230
Carol Cox:
This is like 70,000 words,

318
00:11:34,230 --> 00:11:35,590
right? In an average book.

319
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:38,110
Tiffany Hawk:
Depending on the genre.

320
00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:40,670
Yeah, around 70 to 90,000 words.

321
00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:42,870
Mine's a little too long still probably at

322
00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:45,400
95,000 words, but it's working.

323
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,920
But and it depends, like sci fi can be

324
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,040
120,000 words and fantasy.

325
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,760
So it depends very much on the genre.

326
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,480
But we're talking a lot like 300 something

327
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,080
pages for an adult book,

328
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,000
nonfiction generally a little bit shorter if

329
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,080
it's prescriptive.

330
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,040
But yeah, you're putting in a lot of work.

331
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:03,120
Now, some people though,

332
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:04,600
to go on a total tangent,

333
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,400
people are usually in one of two camps.

334
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,480
You write short and it's not at all long

335
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:11,360
enough for a book, and then you have to go in

336
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,200
and flush it out. That was always me,

337
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,320
my entire career as a journalist and with my

338
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,760
first book. And then some people write long,

339
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:19,720
and then you have to cut and pull things out

340
00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:20,760
and shape it that way.

341
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,440
So when my book came in at 110,000 words,

342
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,360
this time I did not know what to do.

343
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:27,960
I knew how to help other people. But I'm

344
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,560
like, wait, I write short and I flesh out.

345
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:32,280
So I was a bit overwhelmed with that and it

346
00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,840
was very hard to cut, but it was very

347
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:35,560
necessary.

348
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,360
Carol Cox:
Well, I think editing and curation is a

349
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,580
superpower that goes underrated.

350
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:44,940
Whether it's books, essays,

351
00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:48,060
news articles, public public speaking.

352
00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:49,380
You know, talks, speeches,

353
00:12:49,420 --> 00:12:53,100
Ted talks. I find that actually the shorter

354
00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:55,620
it is, the tighter it is because of because

355
00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:56,700
of having to edit down.

356
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:58,940
And I'm obviously a book can't be 20,000

357
00:12:58,980 --> 00:13:01,660
words if it's supposed to be 80,000 words.

358
00:13:01,660 --> 00:13:03,380
But there is a lot, especially for

359
00:13:03,380 --> 00:13:04,860
prescription nonfiction,

360
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:06,660
maybe a little bit different than a novel or

361
00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:10,860
a memoir. I feel like being able to you as

362
00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:13,540
the creator of it, being able to discern what

363
00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:14,700
is that through line?

364
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:16,180
What is the most important thing for the

365
00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:18,100
reader to take away, and staying true to that

366
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:20,180
through line versus kind of like going all

367
00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:22,980
over the place in your book and maybe

368
00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:25,540
potentially losing, losing the reader because

369
00:13:25,540 --> 00:13:27,900
you're going too far afield from where

370
00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,260
they're, where they are comfortable with,

371
00:13:30,260 --> 00:13:31,860
or whether you have led them so far.

372
00:13:32,580 --> 00:13:34,700
Tiffany Hawk:
Absolutely. And it always goes back to that.

373
00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:36,500
Is it Mark Twain, that quote,

374
00:13:36,540 --> 00:13:38,460
I'm sorry, I didn't have time to write it or

375
00:13:38,460 --> 00:13:39,500
sorry my letter so long.

376
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,230
I didn't have time to write a shorter one.

377
00:13:42,030 --> 00:13:43,630
Carol Cox:
Yes. Yeah. Exactly.

378
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:44,910
Right. All right.

379
00:13:44,910 --> 00:13:47,390
So then before we get into your the the book

380
00:13:47,390 --> 00:13:48,990
that you've been working on, I want to talk

381
00:13:48,990 --> 00:13:50,150
to you more about that.

382
00:13:50,750 --> 00:13:52,510
And Alana, a lot of the women that we work

383
00:13:52,510 --> 00:13:54,870
with, they are entrepreneurs or they're

384
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:57,270
professionals, executives in their careers.

385
00:13:57,270 --> 00:13:59,030
And so they have a lot of expertise.

386
00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:00,630
They have degrees and credentials,

387
00:14:00,630 --> 00:14:02,230
credentials. They've been working in their

388
00:14:02,230 --> 00:14:03,950
field, in their industry for a long time and

389
00:14:03,950 --> 00:14:05,310
in their business for a while.

390
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:07,830
And I know I talk quite a bit on this podcast

391
00:14:07,830 --> 00:14:11,230
about this idea of the expert trap that as

392
00:14:11,390 --> 00:14:13,750
experts in well qualified and we have earned

393
00:14:13,750 --> 00:14:15,270
our expertise and should be, we should be

394
00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:16,430
very proud of that.

395
00:14:16,430 --> 00:14:19,870
But we cling so tightly to it that we end up

396
00:14:19,870 --> 00:14:22,190
losing that connection with our audience,

397
00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:23,950
whether it's an audience we're speaking to or

398
00:14:23,950 --> 00:14:26,110
the reader who is reading our work.

399
00:14:26,270 --> 00:14:28,190
And we lose that connection because we're

400
00:14:28,190 --> 00:14:31,270
unwilling to share anything of ourselves that

401
00:14:31,270 --> 00:14:33,750
is meaningful or that is going to create

402
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:36,390
intimacy through vulnerability.

403
00:14:36,390 --> 00:14:38,750
And I've had to learn this throughout my

404
00:14:38,750 --> 00:14:41,040
career because I definitely was not the kind

405
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,200
of speaker or writer who would who was like,

406
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,080
well, I'm going to give you my tips and my

407
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,000
teachings and here's, here's what I learned

408
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,520
here. And you can learn from me.

409
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,760
I didn't even cross my mind to do it any

410
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,400
other way. And obviously now,

411
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,960
over the years, I have learned not only from

412
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,440
seeing the results from what I have put out,

413
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,600
but from working with so many of our clients

414
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,640
and them seeing the results of being willing

415
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,280
to go deeper into their personal journey,

416
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:07,360
into their stories.

417
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,360
So Tiffany, with the women that you have

418
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,280
worked with, where do you feel like they

419
00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:12,840
struggle with this?

420
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,280
The ones that do and what,

421
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,600
how, what recommendations do you have for

422
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:18,040
them?

423
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,320
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh yeah. I think the people that I work with

424
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:22,840
and, and I can relate to this too.

425
00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,480
The more you become an expert,

426
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,680
the more likely you are to have a hard time

427
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,160
being vulnerable and sharing your story.

428
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:30,600
Because when you're out of the habit, it's

429
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,000
very easy now for you to share your expertise

430
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,120
and your tips and all that,

431
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:35,680
just because you do it day in and day out.

432
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,130
And to you, you kind of build up this armor

433
00:15:40,130 --> 00:15:43,770
of expertise that you have to be able to kind

434
00:15:43,770 --> 00:15:45,810
of chink away at to be able to get back to

435
00:15:45,850 --> 00:15:46,970
that vulnerability.

436
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:48,130
And then there's that fear.

437
00:15:48,130 --> 00:15:49,970
If I'm vulnerable, is this going to undermine

438
00:15:50,010 --> 00:15:52,250
my career? Is this going to make me seem like

439
00:15:52,250 --> 00:15:54,250
less of an expert when that's what I've been

440
00:15:54,370 --> 00:15:55,450
relying on?

441
00:15:55,850 --> 00:15:59,410
But story is so, so important.

442
00:15:59,490 --> 00:16:02,850
Um, kind of going back to the journalism

443
00:16:02,890 --> 00:16:05,810
thing, they always talk about if you give

444
00:16:05,810 --> 00:16:06,930
somebody a number like,

445
00:16:07,010 --> 00:16:09,970
oh, in this whatever tragedy is,

446
00:16:09,970 --> 00:16:12,090
10,000 people died, people go,

447
00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:13,770
oh, that's too bad.

448
00:16:13,770 --> 00:16:15,170
That's tragic. And that's it.

449
00:16:15,170 --> 00:16:17,810
But if you focus on one person or one family

450
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:20,010
or one specific place and you tell that

451
00:16:20,010 --> 00:16:21,890
story, people are going to be moved by it and

452
00:16:21,890 --> 00:16:23,410
they're going to jump into action and do

453
00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:26,010
something. So that's why whenever you're

454
00:16:26,010 --> 00:16:28,570
listening to this, whether it's years later

455
00:16:28,570 --> 00:16:30,050
or right when it airs, there's something

456
00:16:30,050 --> 00:16:31,890
going on in the world that you can see that

457
00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:33,770
happening right now, that you're being moved

458
00:16:33,770 --> 00:16:36,490
by small stories in a larger thing,

459
00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:38,140
as opposed to the big numbers.

460
00:16:38,340 --> 00:16:41,180
But the other thing is that story,

461
00:16:41,220 --> 00:16:45,140
especially right now, when people feel lonely

462
00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:46,620
and people feel at odds,

463
00:16:46,620 --> 00:16:48,260
maybe with their neighbors.

464
00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:52,460
And the more we connect both in real life but

465
00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:54,500
also through story, whether it's on paper,

466
00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:57,300
whether it's on podcast or at a live event.

467
00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:00,100
The more not alone you feel,

468
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:02,140
the more connected you can be to other people

469
00:17:02,140 --> 00:17:04,300
through that story. I go every month to this

470
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:05,780
local storytellers group.

471
00:17:05,820 --> 00:17:08,140
This this really cool female storytellers

472
00:17:08,140 --> 00:17:10,620
group, and five people get up on stage and

473
00:17:10,620 --> 00:17:12,340
tell a story from their life.

474
00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:14,980
And even if you are never the one reading,

475
00:17:14,980 --> 00:17:17,180
even if you don't know the person on stage,

476
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:19,140
there is this atmosphere,

477
00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:20,580
this collective.

478
00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:24,580
I'm getting chills literally right now just

479
00:17:24,580 --> 00:17:26,340
thinking about this. My friends and I go,

480
00:17:26,380 --> 00:17:28,300
it's our happy place. There's this collective

481
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:33,420
just safety and joy and ability for even the

482
00:17:33,420 --> 00:17:37,310
listener to feel vulnerable because someone

483
00:17:37,310 --> 00:17:38,910
else is sharing of themselves.

484
00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:40,830
And you know, you're not the only one that

485
00:17:40,830 --> 00:17:42,590
has gone through these things and that it's

486
00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:44,790
safe to feel them in this environment.

487
00:17:45,830 --> 00:17:48,190
Carol Cox:
Yes. And so two things that come to mind.

488
00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:51,310
First is about the containers that we create

489
00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:53,030
for the women who we work with.

490
00:17:53,030 --> 00:17:54,550
And I'll come back to that in just a moment.

491
00:17:54,550 --> 00:17:56,110
But I was thinking about again, since this is

492
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:57,670
Women's History Month right now in the month

493
00:17:57,670 --> 00:18:00,510
of March, is that the civil rights movement

494
00:18:00,510 --> 00:18:02,550
of the 50s and 60s and the women's rights

495
00:18:02,590 --> 00:18:04,030
movement that came after that, and the gay

496
00:18:04,030 --> 00:18:05,470
rights movement after that,

497
00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:08,270
the the the impetus for them,

498
00:18:08,270 --> 00:18:10,910
for a lot of the people in that movement was

499
00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:13,070
literally getting together in each other's

500
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:16,110
living rooms and sharing personal stories

501
00:18:16,110 --> 00:18:17,750
about their experiences,

502
00:18:17,910 --> 00:18:20,550
experiences at home, experiences,

503
00:18:20,550 --> 00:18:23,030
not getting the jobs or the careers that they

504
00:18:23,030 --> 00:18:26,190
wanted, experiences raising families and,

505
00:18:26,190 --> 00:18:28,590
and until they shared that with each other,

506
00:18:28,830 --> 00:18:30,750
they thought it was just them.

507
00:18:30,790 --> 00:18:32,750
It was an isolated experience.

508
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:34,360
Oh, it was just me. You know,

509
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,520
my choices or my limitations.

510
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,080
But the ones they started talking to each

511
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,480
other and sharing their stories, they

512
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,440
realized, oh, it's bigger than just one of

513
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,680
us. This is a whole system that we need to

514
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,920
work on changing.

515
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,040
It's not just one of us.

516
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,040
And I feel like that is the power of personal

517
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,480
narrative is not only do you help one other

518
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,240
person in your audience not feel alone,

519
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,080
which is tremendously valuable.

520
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,040
But then the more people who are sharing,

521
00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,440
you start to realize, oh,

522
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:02,000
there's more we can do here to make this

523
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,440
better for more people.

524
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,120
Tiffany Hawk:
Yes. I mean, just think of the last few

525
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:07,360
years, whether it's me too,

526
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,040
or anytime you go to a protest and you're

527
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,120
just around other people that are willing to,

528
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,200
there's so much trying to make us scared and

529
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,760
make us silent. Everybody,

530
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,640
but also women especially,

531
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,080
and people of color and people that are

532
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,960
queer, all different groups that they want us

533
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:27,000
to be afraid.

534
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,840
And I mean, don't even get started on

535
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,640
immigration. And when people aren't,

536
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,250
when somebody stands up and you can go into a

537
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:36,650
group at a protest or any other thing like

538
00:19:36,650 --> 00:19:40,050
that, you feel emboldened and safer and like

539
00:19:40,050 --> 00:19:41,730
you're not alone and you're willing to do it.

540
00:19:41,730 --> 00:19:44,130
So we have the ability to help other people

541
00:19:44,130 --> 00:19:47,890
do that when we're able to get together or

542
00:19:47,890 --> 00:19:50,770
tell our story, even though it's scary and I

543
00:19:51,170 --> 00:19:54,890
get scared getting on stage and or even just

544
00:19:54,890 --> 00:19:57,010
in a group. I still get nervous raising my

545
00:19:57,010 --> 00:19:59,450
hand in a class, but we have to do it because

546
00:19:59,730 --> 00:20:01,090
look at the power that's in it.

547
00:20:01,290 --> 00:20:02,810
Carol Cox:
Yes. Well, and you know,

548
00:20:02,850 --> 00:20:04,610
I think most of us still get nervous that

549
00:20:04,610 --> 00:20:07,130
it's not, you know, it's that obviously our

550
00:20:07,130 --> 00:20:09,570
bodies are responding to the environment and

551
00:20:09,570 --> 00:20:11,170
what is going on. So it's nervous.

552
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:12,930
It's it's okay to feel nervous.

553
00:20:12,930 --> 00:20:15,570
And then but I feel like when one of us does

554
00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:18,530
it, then more people have the courage to do

555
00:20:18,530 --> 00:20:20,570
it as well. And so when.

556
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:22,610
Tiffany Hawk:
We do it, we build the courage.

557
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:24,330
It's kind of like the creativity. You don't

558
00:20:24,330 --> 00:20:26,170
get the courage and then do it.

559
00:20:26,170 --> 00:20:27,930
You do it and that gives you the courage. Can

560
00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:30,410
I tell a story about going to your retreat?

561
00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:32,340
And then what happened to me after that?

562
00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:34,420
So I went to your treat about that.

563
00:20:34,460 --> 00:20:34,700
Carol Cox:
Yeah.

564
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:37,620
Tiffany Hawk:
I was the most nervous person there for sure.

565
00:20:37,660 --> 00:20:39,140
I'm like, I'm a writer.

566
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:41,300
I'm not a speaker, but I just feel like I

567
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:43,700
need to be here so I can get better at this.

568
00:20:44,020 --> 00:20:46,340
Um, and then I did a workshop shortly after

569
00:20:46,340 --> 00:20:48,220
that at Stanford that went really well.

570
00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:50,180
And then I know we talked about that on a

571
00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:52,380
previous podcast, but we haven't talked about

572
00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:54,460
this one. So that went really well.

573
00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:56,020
I had my speaker notes though.

574
00:20:56,060 --> 00:20:57,380
I was very comfortable.

575
00:20:57,420 --> 00:20:58,620
I was able to let you know,

576
00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:01,700
on the, um, the PowerPoint speaker notes so I

577
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:03,140
could look down there and know exactly what I

578
00:21:03,140 --> 00:21:05,740
was going to say. And then the next time I

579
00:21:05,740 --> 00:21:07,820
went, I had a different computer.

580
00:21:07,820 --> 00:21:10,340
Somehow the OS was not working with their

581
00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:12,540
system. And I'm up in front of this group.

582
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:15,020
Like I would have called in sick if I knew

583
00:21:15,060 --> 00:21:16,780
this was going to happen. I would have said

584
00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:18,540
my plane didn't make it or whatever.

585
00:21:18,540 --> 00:21:20,780
I did not think I had this in me.

586
00:21:20,780 --> 00:21:22,380
There's no way I could do this without

587
00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:24,420
passing out. But all the students are there

588
00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:26,940
watching and I have no notes at all.

589
00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:29,420
And I just had to wing it all day for two

590
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:32,070
straight days and I was fine.

591
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:34,230
There were parts that were not as smooth or

592
00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:35,870
that might be confusing. So people had

593
00:21:35,870 --> 00:21:37,910
questions. But ever since then,

594
00:21:37,910 --> 00:21:39,510
now I know I can do it.

595
00:21:39,670 --> 00:21:42,550
And it was not as polished as the first

596
00:21:42,550 --> 00:21:44,190
version. There were parts, like I said, that

597
00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:46,430
were confusing, but I connected with people

598
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:48,350
more because I wasn't referring to that.

599
00:21:48,350 --> 00:21:50,510
I wasn't trying to be that perfectionist and

600
00:21:50,510 --> 00:21:52,430
get it right. I was just engaging more.

601
00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:54,430
So then the next time I went,

602
00:21:54,550 --> 00:21:55,710
I knew the parts.

603
00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:57,670
The only parts that I really needed to get

604
00:21:57,670 --> 00:21:59,950
exactly right or confusion would be opened

605
00:21:59,950 --> 00:22:02,150
up. So I focused more on memorizing those,

606
00:22:02,310 --> 00:22:05,030
gave myself a few extra little prompts on the

607
00:22:05,030 --> 00:22:07,830
slides that were very basic before.

608
00:22:07,830 --> 00:22:10,270
Just enough in case I got lost and I got

609
00:22:10,270 --> 00:22:11,870
comfortable with the idea of just saying,

610
00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:13,310
wait, give me a second,

611
00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:14,990
I forgot where I was or something,

612
00:22:15,150 --> 00:22:18,230
and that I my readings went so far.

613
00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:19,710
I mean, I always had really, really good

614
00:22:19,710 --> 00:22:21,230
ratings. I didn't think they could go up. It

615
00:22:21,230 --> 00:22:23,950
was like 4.75 because these are anonymous.

616
00:22:24,150 --> 00:22:26,430
I got a ratings of five across the board.

617
00:22:26,430 --> 00:22:28,110
Every single person in that room.

618
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,160
I didn't even know that was possible.

619
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,080
And I think it was because I was able to get

620
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,320
up there and be more comfortable and engaged

621
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,680
and talking, as opposed to getting it just

622
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,640
right, trying to go by my notes.

623
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,440
And I wouldn't have done even the one with

624
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,240
notes if it wasn't for your retreat.

625
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,240
But being forced into it taught me to be more

626
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,560
comfortable because I know I can do it.

627
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,840
Carol Cox:
Oh, I love hearing that, Tiffany. It's so

628
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,080
funny because at our the the workshops and

629
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,600
retreats that we run for speaking your brand

630
00:22:58,600 --> 00:22:59,960
specifically for speakers,

631
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,160
they work on their story or their message in

632
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,400
the morning, and then we have them practice

633
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,520
in the afternoon and we do not allow them to

634
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,760
have any notes, no notes,

635
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,320
no script, no slides for their five minute

636
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,720
practice on the stage.

637
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,200
And trust me, they are terrified.

638
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,960
They're like deer in the headlights.

639
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:15,440
What are you making us do?

640
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:16,880
How can we possibly do this?

641
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:18,480
We do not know what we're going to say.

642
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,480
And every single time every woman gets on

643
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,120
that stage and does an amazing job because

644
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,770
they didn't think that they could do it until

645
00:23:27,770 --> 00:23:28,970
we believed in them.

646
00:23:29,290 --> 00:23:31,850
And we. And we 100% believe that they can do

647
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:33,090
it and they do it.

648
00:23:33,130 --> 00:23:35,050
So like giving us that little push.

649
00:23:35,410 --> 00:23:37,370
And we've also, I mentioned this idea of

650
00:23:37,370 --> 00:23:38,490
building the container.

651
00:23:38,690 --> 00:23:40,770
So we. And I know, Tiffany,

652
00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:42,850
you and I did this when we ran that writing

653
00:23:42,850 --> 00:23:45,730
and speaking retreat last year is creating

654
00:23:45,730 --> 00:23:47,530
the supportive container where we,

655
00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:49,770
we, we understand the narrative arc that

656
00:23:49,770 --> 00:23:52,090
we're taking the women on during the multiple

657
00:23:52,130 --> 00:23:54,770
multi-day retreat to build them up,

658
00:23:54,770 --> 00:23:57,850
to have the confidence to do this and getting

659
00:23:57,850 --> 00:23:59,930
them to believe we believe in them,

660
00:24:00,450 --> 00:24:02,010
the other women believe in them.

661
00:24:02,010 --> 00:24:03,690
And so then they start believing in

662
00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:05,850
themselves as the days progress.

663
00:24:05,850 --> 00:24:09,050
And I feel like it is such it is such an

664
00:24:09,050 --> 00:24:11,050
honor to be able to do that,

665
00:24:11,090 --> 00:24:14,330
to have women feel truly seen and understood

666
00:24:14,450 --> 00:24:16,570
for who they are, especially in this day and

667
00:24:16,570 --> 00:24:18,210
age where I feel like that is in shorter

668
00:24:18,210 --> 00:24:18,770
supply.

669
00:24:19,530 --> 00:24:22,010
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh yes, that was one of my best experiences

670
00:24:22,010 --> 00:24:24,770
of my life. That was such an uplifting group.

671
00:24:24,770 --> 00:24:26,980
What what an incredible thing to witness and

672
00:24:26,980 --> 00:24:27,620
be part of.

673
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:30,700
Carol Cox:
Well, then, let's talk about the next one we

674
00:24:30,740 --> 00:24:32,660
are doing, which we have been teasing now

675
00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:34,700
throughout this entire episode.

676
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:38,320
So we are recording this right now in March

677
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,100
2026. So coming up at the end of September

678
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:46,180
2026, we are hosting a seven night,

679
00:24:46,220 --> 00:24:49,380
eight day story to spotlight writing and

680
00:24:49,380 --> 00:24:52,460
speaking retreat in Spain.

681
00:24:52,620 --> 00:24:54,820
That's right. We're going international this

682
00:24:54,820 --> 00:24:57,340
year. It is going to be so much fun.

683
00:24:57,380 --> 00:24:59,460
We we have this amazing villa.

684
00:24:59,620 --> 00:25:01,460
Everyone has their own room,

685
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:03,420
all the food, beverages,

686
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:05,700
the excursions, everything is included.

687
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:07,580
But most of all, you're getting out of your

688
00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:09,580
normal everyday environment where,

689
00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:11,220
let's face it, like I'm going to go put

690
00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:14,220
another load of laundry in once I'm done here

691
00:25:14,220 --> 00:25:15,620
recording this podcast.

692
00:25:15,620 --> 00:25:17,460
And then I got to feed the cat and then I got

693
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:19,220
to go do this and I got to jump on another

694
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:22,780
Zoom call. So do I do like the deep work that

695
00:25:22,780 --> 00:25:24,830
I know I should be doing no,

696
00:25:24,830 --> 00:25:26,150
because, you know, there's too many

697
00:25:26,150 --> 00:25:28,790
distractions. But having that time,

698
00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:31,830
that focus that out of the your usual

699
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:33,950
element, but then being around this amazing

700
00:25:33,950 --> 00:25:36,510
group of women, I'm, I'm inspired already.

701
00:25:36,510 --> 00:25:38,110
So Tiffany, tell us a little bit more about

702
00:25:38,110 --> 00:25:39,710
the retreat and what you're most looking

703
00:25:39,710 --> 00:25:40,470
forward to.

704
00:25:41,310 --> 00:25:43,550
Tiffany Hawk:
Well, I can't wait. And part of it is like

705
00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:44,990
you're saying, getting out of your day to

706
00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:47,510
day, but also it's getting away from this

707
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:51,630
news cycle and also all of the things that

708
00:25:51,630 --> 00:25:55,590
make you. I don't know how I'm trying to say

709
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:59,390
this, but you know, your identity that can

710
00:25:59,430 --> 00:26:02,390
can pile up on you and make it harder to get

711
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:03,710
to your most authentic voice.

712
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:06,510
When you can step out of that and be

713
00:26:06,510 --> 00:26:08,630
somewhere away from all that,

714
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:11,590
get back to who you actually are outside of

715
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:13,990
whatever role you're playing in your life as

716
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:15,270
a wife, a mom, a worker,

717
00:26:15,270 --> 00:26:16,910
an entrepreneur, whatever it is, stepping

718
00:26:16,910 --> 00:26:19,910
away. And then novelty in general is proven

719
00:26:19,910 --> 00:26:22,600
as, you know, a huge thing for creativity.

720
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,000
And I learned this when I had to write on

721
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,240
deadline at a magazine.

722
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,280
It doesn't have to be novelty of going to

723
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,880
Spain. Going and writing in the lunchroom at

724
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,680
my office instead of in my office.

725
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,440
Sometimes was what I needed to be able to

726
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,160
make new connections and be creative again.

727
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,960
So I'm really excited about that part.

728
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,000
And having everybody there in that

729
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,160
environment to encourage each other to give

730
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,400
feedback. You and I are going to give people

731
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:48,800
personal one on one feedback,

732
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,800
but also getting it from the other people in

733
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,400
your group and seeing what works,

734
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,520
what doesn't, what excites people so that you

735
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,800
can notice what makes you special and having

736
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,680
that time to work on it is invaluable.

737
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:03,080
I know I have to get away.

738
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,120
Um, I've talked to you about this. Like to

739
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,520
finish my book with kids in a business.

740
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,320
I didn't do it for you.

741
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,040
It's been 13 years since my last book.

742
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,400
Yeah, I felt like I'm a has been.

743
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:16,560
I can't write anymore.

744
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,760
I've lost my voice. I can't finish a book.

745
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:20,960
And I finally decided,

746
00:27:21,050 --> 00:27:22,730
okay, I'm going to do this. I'm giving myself

747
00:27:22,730 --> 00:27:24,930
six months and if I don't,

748
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:26,170
I will finish it.

749
00:27:26,170 --> 00:27:28,010
But if it's terrible, I'll be done and I'm

750
00:27:28,010 --> 00:27:29,330
going to give up and I'm not going to try to

751
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:30,810
write another book. I'll just keep working

752
00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:31,850
with my clients.

753
00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:33,570
But part of how I was able to do it,

754
00:27:33,570 --> 00:27:35,410
besides having that deadline,

755
00:27:35,730 --> 00:27:39,050
was I would go for like 3 or 4 days to just

756
00:27:39,050 --> 00:27:41,370
achieve like Hampton in whatever was cheapest

757
00:27:41,370 --> 00:27:42,730
at the time, because I did this a few

758
00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:44,450
different times. Doubletree, Hampton Inn,

759
00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:45,730
whatever. And just right,

760
00:27:45,730 --> 00:27:46,930
right, right, right, right, right, right.

761
00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:48,410
Like for 18 straight hours,

762
00:27:48,410 --> 00:27:50,530
because I wasn't having to come in and out of

763
00:27:50,530 --> 00:27:52,690
the story, I was able to give it that,

764
00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:57,890
that space and let my unconscious mind really

765
00:27:58,570 --> 00:28:00,650
give everything to that instead of all the

766
00:28:00,650 --> 00:28:02,850
other things that I would be working on or

767
00:28:02,890 --> 00:28:05,010
like you said, laundry and different

768
00:28:05,010 --> 00:28:06,490
distractions and mom, mom,

769
00:28:06,490 --> 00:28:09,730
mom, mom, I would, I felt like I would get

770
00:28:09,730 --> 00:28:12,210
six months of worth work done in like three

771
00:28:12,210 --> 00:28:13,850
days. It was pretty crazy.

772
00:28:13,890 --> 00:28:14,770
And I finished.

773
00:28:15,330 --> 00:28:16,170
Carol Cox:
Yes. Yeah.

774
00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:18,370
Tiffany Hawk:
I didn't think I could, but I did.

775
00:28:18,930 --> 00:28:20,380
Carol Cox:
We're still going to talk about your new book

776
00:28:20,380 --> 00:28:21,420
here in just a moment.

777
00:28:21,420 --> 00:28:24,380
So let me let me think about the so the

778
00:28:24,380 --> 00:28:25,460
retreat we had last year,

779
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:29,180
I know that so many of the women that are

780
00:28:29,220 --> 00:28:31,220
that were there still keep in touch with each

781
00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:34,300
other. So we had ten of them together and

782
00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:36,140
they still email each other.

783
00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:38,220
A few of them have actually self-published

784
00:28:38,220 --> 00:28:39,940
books since then, because that is the

785
00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:41,700
direction that they wanted to go in.

786
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:43,780
So their books are out there.

787
00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:45,540
A lot of them are doing speaking engagements,

788
00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:48,780
contributing essays to industry associations

789
00:28:48,780 --> 00:28:51,260
that they're in. I know that so many of them

790
00:28:51,260 --> 00:28:55,020
said how life changing it was not just for

791
00:28:55,060 --> 00:28:57,420
the what they got from us,

792
00:28:57,420 --> 00:28:58,900
as far as, you know, the one on one sessions

793
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:00,820
and getting our feedback and coaching from

794
00:29:00,820 --> 00:29:04,300
them, but really being around other women who

795
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:06,100
are in similar stages in life,

796
00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:08,900
you know, like minded values wise and really

797
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:12,540
looking to use their voice in a way where,

798
00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:14,820
you know, they, they want that extra

799
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:17,300
encouragement, they want that community of

800
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:18,630
support and having.

801
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:20,950
That I have seen since the.

802
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:23,270
Almost a year since we did the last one.

803
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:26,950
How much they have blossomed and grown from

804
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:28,590
that experience that they had together?

805
00:29:29,550 --> 00:29:31,470
Tiffany Hawk:
Absolutely. And I feel like I have too.

806
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:34,230
I got as much out of that as anyone else

807
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:34,710
there.

808
00:29:35,950 --> 00:29:37,950
Carol Cox:
Yeah, absolutely. So for those of you who are

809
00:29:37,950 --> 00:29:39,270
interested in checking it out,

810
00:29:39,270 --> 00:29:42,750
go to speaking your Brand.com again,

811
00:29:42,750 --> 00:29:45,270
that's speaking your Brand.com Spain.

812
00:29:45,470 --> 00:29:48,190
That page will redirect you to the page.

813
00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:50,470
That's a joint page between myself and

814
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:53,430
Tiffany that has all the details about the

815
00:29:53,430 --> 00:29:54,950
entire retreat, the dates,

816
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:57,830
the location, everything that's included.

817
00:29:57,830 --> 00:30:00,550
Photos, testimonials from the women who

818
00:30:00,550 --> 00:30:02,830
attended our joint retreat last year.

819
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:05,470
Why? This is a retreat for you to tap into

820
00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:06,590
your authentic voice.

821
00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:08,070
Create those breakthroughs,

822
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:11,270
get that personalized plan and timeline for

823
00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:13,430
actually coming in with your project,

824
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:15,710
and you could be anywhere in your book

825
00:30:15,710 --> 00:30:18,240
project. You could just be at the idea stage.

826
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,760
You could already have started working on

827
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,560
writing it. Maybe you're working on the book

828
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,800
proposal. Whatever stage that you're at,

829
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,880
we're going to help give you some direction

830
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,520
before you even get to the retreat,

831
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,760
and then give you direction afterwards,

832
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,680
because after the retreat is over,

833
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,360
we're going to give everyone a couple of

834
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,240
weeks to get settled back in.

835
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,120
And then we're going to have four weekly Zoom

836
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,240
calls with all the women who are there to

837
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,760
help, to give you that sense of momentum and

838
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,000
accountability and support afterwards,

839
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,000
so that you're ending the year really strong

840
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,840
and you know exactly what you need to do as

841
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,880
you close out 2026 and go into 2027.

842
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,920
So I'm excited about those follow up Zoom

843
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:56,760
calls as well.

844
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,560
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh yeah, me too, because I've been guilty of

845
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,080
this and I know other people are. You go to

846
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,760
this amazing conference, retreat,

847
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:04,000
workshop, whatever it is.

848
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,320
All these great ideas when you leave and

849
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:07,840
you're so excited, then you go back to normal

850
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,720
life and don't do anything with it.

851
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,800
Oh my gosh, I've spent so much time and money

852
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,840
on things that I've done that with. So I'm

853
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,770
really happy that we both wanted to do this,

854
00:31:16,810 --> 00:31:18,810
like implementation calls to keep people

855
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:20,850
going and give them that accountability.

856
00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:22,690
And I can't remember if you said this, so I

857
00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:24,250
want to make sure people know this isn't for

858
00:31:24,250 --> 00:31:26,050
fiction, it's for non-fiction.

859
00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:27,850
Whether we're talking about a memoir, that's

860
00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:29,970
your personal story or something more

861
00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:32,450
prescriptive. That's how to or about

862
00:31:32,770 --> 00:31:35,490
narrative nonfiction, nonfiction,

863
00:31:35,530 --> 00:31:37,650
like history or science or something like

864
00:31:37,650 --> 00:31:38,930
that, but not fiction.

865
00:31:39,410 --> 00:31:41,210
Carol Cox:
Right? So if you're an entrepreneur and you

866
00:31:41,210 --> 00:31:43,370
have a business and say you are a speaker or

867
00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:44,730
you want to do more speaking,

868
00:31:44,930 --> 00:31:47,170
you could write what we call a prescriptive

869
00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:50,250
nonfiction book, which is kind of a how to,

870
00:31:50,290 --> 00:31:51,850
but not like a, you know,

871
00:31:51,890 --> 00:31:53,170
do these five things.

872
00:31:53,210 --> 00:31:54,730
I mean, it could be do these five things, but

873
00:31:54,770 --> 00:31:55,850
it's in a book format,

874
00:31:55,890 --> 00:31:57,970
not in a like checklist format.

875
00:31:58,930 --> 00:32:01,970
Tiffany Hawk:
Yeah. But we are open to talks and essays as

876
00:32:01,970 --> 00:32:03,650
well if people are wanting to do that.

877
00:32:03,650 --> 00:32:05,170
And I know that sounds like it's all over the

878
00:32:05,170 --> 00:32:06,850
place, but it's not because it's the same

879
00:32:06,850 --> 00:32:09,210
fundamentals and we're going to work on the

880
00:32:09,210 --> 00:32:12,330
structure and really roll up our sleeves and

881
00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:14,220
figure out what makes this special?

882
00:32:14,260 --> 00:32:15,980
How are you going to make it stand out? Who's

883
00:32:15,980 --> 00:32:17,660
your audience? And then what is the

884
00:32:17,660 --> 00:32:19,300
structure? What are we going to pull in here,

885
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:21,100
whether it's short form or long form?

886
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:23,540
Carol Cox:
Yes, exactly. So for an entire book feels

887
00:32:23,540 --> 00:32:25,580
like too much of a heavy lift right now.

888
00:32:25,580 --> 00:32:26,940
So that is not on your plate.

889
00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:29,060
That is okay. You can come,

890
00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:31,980
you can just work on finding and using your

891
00:32:31,980 --> 00:32:33,820
voice. What is that authentic voice that

892
00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:36,100
honestly gets? I know that mine has gotten

893
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:38,580
lost off and on over the years where it kind

894
00:32:38,620 --> 00:32:40,540
of drifts away, and then I have to like,

895
00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,900
rein it back in because I feel myself

896
00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,180
diluting my voice kind of coming back to what

897
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:49,540
I think the internet wants or the algorithms

898
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:52,460
want, or what all the stuff that's been going

899
00:32:52,460 --> 00:32:55,340
on in the news over the past year plus wants

900
00:32:55,340 --> 00:32:56,860
women not to be sane.

901
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:59,180
And I know we're all susceptible to this.

902
00:32:59,180 --> 00:33:01,620
And so I that's why I need this community of

903
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:05,100
women to, to remind me to remind all of us

904
00:33:05,100 --> 00:33:09,340
how important it is for us to keep using our

905
00:33:09,340 --> 00:33:11,100
voices to say the things that need to be

906
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:13,390
said, obviously, in a way that's appropriate

907
00:33:13,390 --> 00:33:15,630
for us and, you know, our businesses and our

908
00:33:15,630 --> 00:33:18,470
careers and all of that. But to to really not

909
00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:20,830
be silent. I had a guest on last month who

910
00:33:20,830 --> 00:33:22,870
said basically, don't let someone silence

911
00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:24,950
you. Like, don't sound like yourself before

912
00:33:24,950 --> 00:33:27,230
someone else has a chance to silence you.

913
00:33:27,270 --> 00:33:28,990
Right? And I think, and I feel like we do

914
00:33:28,990 --> 00:33:29,950
that a lot of times.

915
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:31,390
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh, we do that all the time.

916
00:33:32,550 --> 00:33:33,630
I do, I should say.

917
00:33:33,670 --> 00:33:35,030
I do that all the time.

918
00:33:35,070 --> 00:33:37,190
I'm working my way out of that.

919
00:33:37,230 --> 00:33:38,390
Carol Cox:
Yes, we all do.

920
00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:40,830
Which is why we keep needing these reminders

921
00:33:40,830 --> 00:33:42,670
and, and, and to be around each other to

922
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:43,750
encourage us to do so.

923
00:33:43,790 --> 00:33:46,190
Okay. So we've talked about the second book

924
00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:47,950
that you were working on, the one that you

925
00:33:47,950 --> 00:33:50,390
already wrote 180,000 words for,

926
00:33:50,430 --> 00:33:50,990
and then through.

927
00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:53,630
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh, well, maybe, maybe it was that much.

928
00:33:53,670 --> 00:33:55,310
Is that what I. Yeah, I would believe it.

929
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:56,510
Yeah, I've probably been right.

930
00:33:57,710 --> 00:34:00,030
Carol Cox:
Okay. So what can you tell us about the book

931
00:34:00,030 --> 00:34:01,830
and what stage is it at and what have you

932
00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:03,150
learned through this process?

933
00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:06,310
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh my gosh, I can't talk too much.

934
00:34:06,350 --> 00:34:09,150
It's a psychological thriller set in Tucson

935
00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:13,400
and I don't know what all I'd have to ask my

936
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,040
new almost agent what I can say online about

937
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,560
exactly what the hook is. But yeah,

938
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,320
it. Psychological thriller set in Tucson for

939
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,680
now. We're gonna leave it at that. We're

940
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,040
gonna leave it at that. So it's fiction.

941
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,480
Despite me saying, oh, we're not doing

942
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:27,920
fiction. At that workshop,

943
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,480
I wrote another novel.

944
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,120
Um, I had just sat on this for years and

945
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,440
years and years and felt like I didn't have

946
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,560
the time. Nobody would want to hear it.

947
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,280
I was just focused on work,

948
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,360
didn't want to take time away from the kids.

949
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,440
And I just had lost belief in myself.

950
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,920
Like, talk about silencing yourself like I

951
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,840
had for many years accidentally become

952
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:51,600
financially dependent on my husband because

953
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,280
he was in the military and we were moving and

954
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,080
moving and moving. And that was just chipping

955
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,160
away more and more and more and more at my

956
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,120
career. Um, that really led to a lot of self

957
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,240
silencing because I felt so dependent in that

958
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,160
way. And, and this is what actually the talk

959
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,690
that I want to work with you on and I like

960
00:35:09,690 --> 00:35:12,330
Brene Brown says you can't selectively numb.

961
00:35:12,650 --> 00:35:15,090
I don't believe you can selectively silence.

962
00:35:15,090 --> 00:35:18,530
So when I was not saying things I needed to

963
00:35:18,570 --> 00:35:21,290
be saying in my life and in my marriage

964
00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:23,690
because I was worried about health insurance

965
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:25,290
and finances and all these things, which was

966
00:35:25,290 --> 00:35:26,410
good for neither of us.

967
00:35:26,770 --> 00:35:30,850
Um, it started to snowball into being quiet

968
00:35:31,250 --> 00:35:32,490
in other places.

969
00:35:32,490 --> 00:35:34,970
And then I gradually started speaking out,

970
00:35:35,810 --> 00:35:37,770
taking your class because I know I needed to

971
00:35:37,810 --> 00:35:38,850
or your workshop.

972
00:35:39,010 --> 00:35:42,770
Um, a little by little until I finally

973
00:35:42,770 --> 00:35:44,730
started to regain a little bit of my voice.

974
00:35:44,730 --> 00:35:46,890
But I'll tell you, I still did not believe I

975
00:35:46,930 --> 00:35:48,170
decided to do this book.

976
00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:50,650
I had heard a podcast with Taffy

977
00:35:50,650 --> 00:35:52,250
Brodesser-akner who wrote,

978
00:35:52,490 --> 00:35:54,210
uh, Fleishman is in Trouble, which is just

979
00:35:54,210 --> 00:35:55,730
one of the best books ever.

980
00:35:55,730 --> 00:35:57,770
And I've followed her career for a long time.

981
00:35:58,210 --> 00:36:00,850
And she said on this podcast that she did

982
00:36:00,850 --> 00:36:02,250
what I earlier told you I did.

983
00:36:02,250 --> 00:36:03,610
She took six months.

984
00:36:03,610 --> 00:36:05,050
She dialed back on work.

985
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:06,770
She didn't ignore her kids,

986
00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:08,830
but she, you know, took time away from her

987
00:36:08,830 --> 00:36:11,430
family and only gave it that time and she was

988
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:12,910
going to be done. She had to know if she

989
00:36:12,910 --> 00:36:14,910
could do it. And if it didn't work out,

990
00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:16,510
now she's going to go back to her family,

991
00:36:16,510 --> 00:36:18,190
whatever. She can't take more than six months

992
00:36:18,190 --> 00:36:20,430
out of their income and out of their lives.

993
00:36:20,430 --> 00:36:22,270
So I said, I'm going to do this exact same

994
00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:24,750
thing. I mean, not if she can do it.

995
00:36:24,750 --> 00:36:26,110
I can do it because she's like one of the

996
00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:28,430
most brilliant writers in the entire world.

997
00:36:28,430 --> 00:36:31,030
And my book does not come near her level.

998
00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:33,550
But I liked the structure of that and the

999
00:36:33,550 --> 00:36:34,990
limited time, so that I could say,

1000
00:36:34,990 --> 00:36:36,790
I am going to neglect other things.

1001
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:38,070
I'm going to dial back on work.

1002
00:36:38,070 --> 00:36:39,670
I'm going to make less money. This is going

1003
00:36:39,710 --> 00:36:42,030
to pinch. I'm probably going to take a hit in

1004
00:36:42,030 --> 00:36:43,790
terms of my business and,

1005
00:36:43,830 --> 00:36:45,830
you know, thought leadership and all of that.

1006
00:36:45,830 --> 00:36:48,150
I'm going to make my kids crazy and I'm going

1007
00:36:48,190 --> 00:36:49,990
to sit here while they're doing what they're

1008
00:36:49,990 --> 00:36:51,190
doing, and I'm going to be typing all the

1009
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:52,670
time. I'm going to get up at 4:00 in the

1010
00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:54,190
morning or 3:00 in the morning.

1011
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:55,990
Perimenopause helps with that because half

1012
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:57,870
the time I wake up anyways.

1013
00:36:57,870 --> 00:36:59,590
But all right, I'll get up and I'll go down

1014
00:36:59,590 --> 00:37:01,550
and turn on the fireplace or sit outside or

1015
00:37:01,550 --> 00:37:03,030
whatever, depending on what time of year it

1016
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:04,350
is. And I did it.

1017
00:37:04,350 --> 00:37:07,400
I had that shitty first draft and it was so

1018
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,040
shitty, I. I said, this is not even going to

1019
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,040
come to that level. This is going to be a

1020
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,480
prototype or a barf draft,

1021
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,240
as some people say. And I had that and I

1022
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,760
couldn't believe it because I really kind of

1023
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,000
had started to believe that I couldn't do

1024
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,040
this, even though I'm helping people do this

1025
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,120
day in, day out, getting my students and

1026
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:26,760
clients agents and book deals and

1027
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,680
self-publishing awards and all kinds of

1028
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,360
things. Some part of me didn't believe,

1029
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,520
and I realized that when I finished it,

1030
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,480
but then came editing it,

1031
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:37,760
and this whole time I just kept taking

1032
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,400
action. I still didn't believe I should tell

1033
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,560
you part of why. Not only had it been a long

1034
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,320
time since I'd written the book, since having

1035
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,300
kids and starting a business and moving a

1036
00:37:46,300 --> 00:37:48,840
million times, but I did write a book after

1037
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,880
my first one came out 13 years ago,

1038
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,320
and my agent hated it.

1039
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,400
It wasn't good. I did it like I tell people

1040
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,040
not to because I needed to check the box.

1041
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,960
It was time. It had been two years.

1042
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,760
I needed another book to come out and it was

1043
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,000
okay. It was proficient.

1044
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,480
It was fine. You know,

1045
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:05,650
the sentences she said,

1046
00:38:05,650 --> 00:38:07,090
were slick and professional,

1047
00:38:07,090 --> 00:38:08,370
but she was completely right.

1048
00:38:08,410 --> 00:38:10,330
Like this was not a story I was burning to

1049
00:38:10,330 --> 00:38:12,530
tell. It was really, really blah.

1050
00:38:12,530 --> 00:38:14,170
And she wasn't going to sell it.

1051
00:38:14,450 --> 00:38:17,930
And that really threw me.

1052
00:38:18,490 --> 00:38:20,770
And so for the longest time,

1053
00:38:20,770 --> 00:38:23,810
I didn't really just didn't believe I had it

1054
00:38:23,810 --> 00:38:25,570
anymore. She said to me,

1055
00:38:26,250 --> 00:38:28,130
it's been a while since your last book, but

1056
00:38:28,130 --> 00:38:29,690
didn't you used to be funny?

1057
00:38:31,210 --> 00:38:35,250
And that that really burned and that is stuck

1058
00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:37,130
in my head for a long time. Lovely woman.

1059
00:38:37,130 --> 00:38:39,130
We're still friends. She's only representing

1060
00:38:39,130 --> 00:38:40,210
non-fiction now.

1061
00:38:40,330 --> 00:38:42,490
So I also needed to start from scratch.

1062
00:38:42,490 --> 00:38:44,490
I needed to find a new literary agent.

1063
00:38:44,490 --> 00:38:46,290
So I finished. But then it was like,

1064
00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:47,970
am I going to be able to find an agent? She

1065
00:38:48,010 --> 00:38:49,970
hated my old book. I'm starting from scratch.

1066
00:38:49,970 --> 00:38:51,370
Yes, I teach people day in,

1067
00:38:51,370 --> 00:38:52,810
day out how to do this,

1068
00:38:52,810 --> 00:38:55,370
but now that adds me pressure on me because

1069
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:59,050
it's like, oh, if I try this and I fail now I

1070
00:38:59,050 --> 00:39:00,930
look like I can't do my job.

1071
00:39:00,930 --> 00:39:04,180
And I'm like, just, I can't even do what I'm

1072
00:39:04,180 --> 00:39:06,380
teaching. So I put all this pressure on

1073
00:39:06,380 --> 00:39:09,060
myself. But I just kept taking action.

1074
00:39:09,060 --> 00:39:10,580
And I worked with an editor,

1075
00:39:10,580 --> 00:39:13,820
and then the first couple agents I sent it to

1076
00:39:13,860 --> 00:39:15,860
rejected it because that's pretty normal.

1077
00:39:15,860 --> 00:39:18,180
But then two people came back and absolutely

1078
00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:19,860
loved it and wanted to represent it.

1079
00:39:20,220 --> 00:39:22,140
And that was the point where I realized,

1080
00:39:22,140 --> 00:39:24,020
oh, I haven't believed all this time,

1081
00:39:24,020 --> 00:39:26,020
because suddenly I did believe because these

1082
00:39:26,020 --> 00:39:27,340
are really great agents.

1083
00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:29,340
So then I followed up with the other people

1084
00:39:29,340 --> 00:39:30,820
who were reading the full manuscript, and

1085
00:39:30,820 --> 00:39:33,020
then I had three more people want to offer on

1086
00:39:33,020 --> 00:39:34,700
it, which I don't know how much your

1087
00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:36,060
listeners know, but that's really, really

1088
00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:37,780
rare. Still doesn't mean I'm going to get a

1089
00:39:37,780 --> 00:39:39,460
book deal, but there's a lot of excitement

1090
00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:41,220
and momentum right now. I'm kind of trying to

1091
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:42,940
decide who I'm going to work with,

1092
00:39:42,940 --> 00:39:45,380
which is quite a champagne problem to have.

1093
00:39:45,620 --> 00:39:47,380
But until that happened,

1094
00:39:47,420 --> 00:39:48,980
I didn't believe in myself anymore,

1095
00:39:48,980 --> 00:39:51,380
and now I'm just thanking myself for doing

1096
00:39:51,380 --> 00:39:52,940
it, for putting one foot in front of the

1097
00:39:52,940 --> 00:39:54,860
other and like, Holy cow, I did it.

1098
00:39:54,860 --> 00:39:57,940
I can't believe I got to this point or that I

1099
00:39:57,940 --> 00:39:59,420
had so little belief.

1100
00:39:59,740 --> 00:40:01,900
It's kind of silly, but it's natural,

1101
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,230
I guess, for us to do that.

1102
00:40:04,150 --> 00:40:05,990
Carol Cox:
What kept driving you forward?

1103
00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:09,550
Tiffany Hawk:
At first it was just that deadline.

1104
00:40:09,910 --> 00:40:12,270
I was not going to get to that because I knew

1105
00:40:12,270 --> 00:40:13,870
I had to quit. Like if I,

1106
00:40:13,910 --> 00:40:15,750
at six months couldn't do this,

1107
00:40:16,030 --> 00:40:18,190
it was pack it up and put it away and focus

1108
00:40:18,190 --> 00:40:20,390
on my family and my business and be done.

1109
00:40:20,670 --> 00:40:23,150
And I can just let that go and know that it's

1110
00:40:23,150 --> 00:40:27,310
no good. But it was just held together just

1111
00:40:27,310 --> 00:40:29,150
enough for me to say, okay,

1112
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:30,710
this has a beginning, middle and end. What

1113
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:32,230
can I do with it? It was that clay.

1114
00:40:32,270 --> 00:40:34,070
I had the Stephen King clay to shape

1115
00:40:34,070 --> 00:40:36,190
something with, and then the next draft,

1116
00:40:36,190 --> 00:40:38,390
it was like, okay, this got just a little bit

1117
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:41,470
better. And also it was community too.

1118
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:42,990
I didn't know anything about writing a

1119
00:40:42,990 --> 00:40:45,030
thriller. I have a lot of experience in

1120
00:40:45,030 --> 00:40:46,830
writing and editing and publishing.

1121
00:40:47,030 --> 00:40:49,230
Nothing about thriller and plotting and all

1122
00:40:49,230 --> 00:40:51,030
that. So I took a couple of different

1123
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:53,070
thriller writing classes and people in the

1124
00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:54,750
classes and the teachers were like,

1125
00:40:54,790 --> 00:40:56,310
oh, this is really, really good. So I will

1126
00:40:56,310 --> 00:40:59,350
admit, like having that outside belief in me

1127
00:40:59,350 --> 00:41:02,840
was really huge, I don't know what would have

1128
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,480
happened if I didn't have those people

1129
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:07,720
pushing. And then also one of the classes I

1130
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:09,600
took, I'm going to talk a lot more about this

1131
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,200
later once I'm through this process,

1132
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,240
but was with a, um, organization called the

1133
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,840
novel, which this is only for fiction,

1134
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,600
but they were instrumental in this whole

1135
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,920
entire process and I rave about them.

1136
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,520
They were really incredible.

1137
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,440
Uh, helped me a lot of the way.

1138
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,640
So having those people believe in me was,

1139
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,600
I guess just enough, even though I didn't

1140
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,200
still believe to keep going.

1141
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:32,720
Carol Cox:
Oh, I love this, Tiffany.

1142
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,120
Well, first, congratulations.

1143
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,720
I am so excited for you.

1144
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,680
To read it. Once it's out,

1145
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:39,400
hopefully I'll at least get an advanced

1146
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,560
galley copy okay.

1147
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,040
I don't have to wait until actual publication

1148
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:45,360
date.

1149
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:45,800
Tiffany Hawk:
No.

1150
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,080
Carol Cox:
Okay, so congratulations on that.

1151
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:50,360
But to your point, you know,

1152
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:51,680
again, like you mentioned, the importance of

1153
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,200
community, but also constraints.

1154
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,720
And I feel like that is also what happens so,

1155
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,160
so much. Is that why we don't ever finish

1156
00:41:59,250 --> 00:42:01,690
Whatever it is that we want to finish is that

1157
00:42:01,690 --> 00:42:04,570
it's always open ended because there are no

1158
00:42:04,570 --> 00:42:05,770
constraints on it.

1159
00:42:05,770 --> 00:42:08,210
This is why I love external deadlines,

1160
00:42:08,410 --> 00:42:10,810
and I will tie a completion of something to

1161
00:42:10,850 --> 00:42:13,450
an external deadline that I cannot change.

1162
00:42:13,610 --> 00:42:15,330
It's a conference that I'm speaking at and

1163
00:42:15,330 --> 00:42:17,130
that's the date of the conference. I can't

1164
00:42:17,130 --> 00:42:19,210
change it. So whatever it is,

1165
00:42:19,250 --> 00:42:20,370
it has to be done.

1166
00:42:20,410 --> 00:42:21,530
The reason this podcast,

1167
00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:24,850
launched nine years ago in February 2017,

1168
00:42:24,890 --> 00:42:26,650
is because I was speaking at a podcasting

1169
00:42:26,650 --> 00:42:29,330
conference and I did not yet have a podcast.

1170
00:42:29,330 --> 00:42:32,770
But by gosh, I had one two days before that

1171
00:42:32,770 --> 00:42:33,690
conference started so.

1172
00:42:35,130 --> 00:42:36,890
Tiffany Hawk:
Yeah you know, you remind me, I also gave

1173
00:42:36,890 --> 00:42:38,290
myself an external deadline.

1174
00:42:38,290 --> 00:42:40,490
I had that initial six month deadline and

1175
00:42:40,490 --> 00:42:42,570
then to edit it because now I'm getting

1176
00:42:42,610 --> 00:42:45,530
tired. I hired an editor however many months

1177
00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:47,010
later, I can't quite remember,

1178
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:48,890
and I dropped thousands of dollars to have

1179
00:42:48,890 --> 00:42:51,210
this, you know, someone who was really versed

1180
00:42:51,210 --> 00:42:53,330
in crime and thrillers because I have friends

1181
00:42:53,330 --> 00:42:54,690
and things that I could have had as beta

1182
00:42:54,690 --> 00:42:56,330
readers, but I knew I wanted to do this at a

1183
00:42:56,330 --> 00:42:58,340
professional level, and I needed professional

1184
00:42:58,340 --> 00:43:00,740
help from someone, so I was I had already

1185
00:43:00,740 --> 00:43:02,460
spent that money and booked that time,

1186
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:05,100
so I'll be damned if I'm gonna waste that.

1187
00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:06,940
I'm gonna make sure I edit it to the best of

1188
00:43:06,940 --> 00:43:08,380
my ability before I get there.

1189
00:43:08,420 --> 00:43:09,820
And you know, not even just edit,

1190
00:43:09,820 --> 00:43:11,900
but revise and completely rewrite to get it

1191
00:43:11,900 --> 00:43:14,940
ready for her. So definitely money where your

1192
00:43:14,940 --> 00:43:18,180
mouth is and external deadlines for sure.

1193
00:43:19,060 --> 00:43:23,220
Carol Cox:
So our retreat in Spain this fall could be

1194
00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:24,580
that external deadline,

1195
00:43:24,740 --> 00:43:27,860
that constraint for you listening to get

1196
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:29,860
whatever that project is the book,

1197
00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:32,700
the essay, the, the talk,

1198
00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:35,380
however you want to use your voice to get

1199
00:43:35,380 --> 00:43:39,260
that to the next stage in development because

1200
00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:40,980
you're going to be there and you're going to

1201
00:43:40,980 --> 00:43:43,300
be learning a lot from us and from the other

1202
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:44,580
women there, and you're going to make

1203
00:43:44,580 --> 00:43:46,820
progress in momentum on whatever it is that

1204
00:43:46,820 --> 00:43:47,660
you're working on.

1205
00:43:48,260 --> 00:43:49,940
Tiffany Hawk:
I love how neatly that came together.

1206
00:43:49,980 --> 00:43:53,060
I wasn't even thinking that when I said that

1207
00:43:53,060 --> 00:43:54,380
about hiring an editor.

1208
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:58,430
Carol Cox:
This is why I do the work I do because I got

1209
00:43:58,430 --> 00:44:00,150
post-it notes everywhere in my brain.

1210
00:44:02,390 --> 00:44:03,670
I'm like, I'm like the,

1211
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:05,590
uh, the crime detective who is doing all of

1212
00:44:05,590 --> 00:44:07,750
the string between the dots on the board.

1213
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:09,910
Tiffany Hawk:
Oh, I did. That for my book.

1214
00:44:09,950 --> 00:44:12,270
I'll hire you next time to help me with it.

1215
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:14,030
Carol Cox:
Oh, my God, I would love that.

1216
00:44:14,070 --> 00:44:15,150
Oh, there's so much fun.

1217
00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:18,070
All right, Tiffany, so tell us other ways

1218
00:44:18,070 --> 00:44:19,750
that listeners can work with you.

1219
00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:22,350
Tiffany Hawk:
Well, I'm going to be reviving my

1220
00:44:22,350 --> 00:44:24,110
breakthrough book proposal class, the one

1221
00:44:24,110 --> 00:44:25,710
that you were in before. But for now, I'm

1222
00:44:25,710 --> 00:44:27,270
going to do it a little bit differently. It's

1223
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:29,630
only going to be for women and it's going to

1224
00:44:29,630 --> 00:44:30,790
be application only.

1225
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:32,270
And we're going to have a very small,

1226
00:44:32,270 --> 00:44:34,390
intimate group, 15 people only,

1227
00:44:34,390 --> 00:44:36,790
so that we can get a lot more personalized

1228
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:39,190
attention. And I'm going to have agents and

1229
00:44:39,190 --> 00:44:41,230
editors at the end of it that you can present

1230
00:44:41,230 --> 00:44:43,030
your work to. Even if you're not ready,

1231
00:44:43,030 --> 00:44:46,750
they can be really, really invaluable

1232
00:44:46,750 --> 00:44:49,790
resources for just hearing your hook and

1233
00:44:49,790 --> 00:44:53,110
telling you what they see in it and where it

1234
00:44:53,110 --> 00:44:54,390
might fit into the market,

1235
00:44:54,390 --> 00:44:56,320
or things that you might want to think about

1236
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,280
and do Q and A and all of that.

1237
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,480
So I'm excited to launch that again.

1238
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,800
I don't have a set date,

1239
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,160
but it won't be for a few months for sure.

1240
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:07,920
I'm putting the finishing details because I

1241
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,600
want to make sure it's very,

1242
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,720
um, that we have really,

1243
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,080
really great female authors as models in

1244
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,720
there and changing up some of the material,

1245
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:21,560
but making it very high end and exclusive and

1246
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:21,800
women.

1247
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,000
Carol Cox:
Oh, that sounds great. All right. Man but

1248
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:26,960
well, you know, and I,

1249
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,480
yeah, so I, I, you know,

1250
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:30,720
obviously a lot of our programs are women

1251
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,720
focused here speaking your brand, but we do

1252
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:35,160
have a number of male clients increasing.

1253
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,120
So I always say like, if you vibe with us,

1254
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,320
I'm more than happy to work with you one on

1255
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,520
one and we do. And, and it's a lot of fun.

1256
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,240
Tiffany Hawk:
And I do men can work with me one on one as

1257
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:46,680
well. I don't have those launch,

1258
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,360
but I will be in the next couple months.

1259
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,600
I'm doing one on one intensives for book

1260
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:51,360
proposals.

1261
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:53,160
Carol Cox:
Oh, fun. All right. So go to

1262
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:56,330
TiffanyHawk.com/intensive for this

1263
00:45:56,330 --> 00:45:58,690
breakthrough proposal intensive.

1264
00:45:58,690 --> 00:46:00,170
And we'll have links in the show notes. And

1265
00:46:00,170 --> 00:46:02,490
if you're interested in learning more about

1266
00:46:02,490 --> 00:46:04,570
this writing and speaking retreat story to

1267
00:46:04,570 --> 00:46:06,690
Spotlight in Spain later this fall,

1268
00:46:06,730 --> 00:46:09,890
go to speaking your brand.com/spain.

1269
00:46:10,090 --> 00:46:12,010
Get all the details and apply.

1270
00:46:12,210 --> 00:46:14,570
So we do the application form because then

1271
00:46:14,570 --> 00:46:16,890
one of us will schedule a Zoom call with you.

1272
00:46:16,930 --> 00:46:19,090
We just want to touch base with you and learn

1273
00:46:19,090 --> 00:46:21,290
a little bit more about what you want to work

1274
00:46:21,290 --> 00:46:24,050
on. Answer your questions about the retreat.

1275
00:46:24,090 --> 00:46:26,170
Make sure it's a great fit for what you're

1276
00:46:26,290 --> 00:46:27,410
you want to work on.

1277
00:46:27,530 --> 00:46:29,970
And then, well, we'll get you to the next

1278
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:31,090
step in the process.

1279
00:46:31,090 --> 00:46:34,290
So we're excited to, to bring all of this,

1280
00:46:34,330 --> 00:46:36,890
this curated group of women together and to

1281
00:46:36,930 --> 00:46:38,650
kind of get like, like Tiffany said, like get

1282
00:46:38,650 --> 00:46:40,770
away from the news cycle and from social

1283
00:46:40,770 --> 00:46:44,250
media and all the algorithms touch base again

1284
00:46:44,250 --> 00:46:46,370
with who we are, our embodied selves and our

1285
00:46:46,370 --> 00:46:49,050
voices and have an amazing time with great

1286
00:46:49,050 --> 00:46:51,850
food and drink and excursions and,

1287
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:53,420
and whether, and just,

1288
00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:54,660
uh, it's going to be, it's going to be

1289
00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:55,140
wonderful.

1290
00:46:55,620 --> 00:46:58,100
Tiffany Hawk:
Yes. And you were saying private rooms,

1291
00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:00,300
they're like private casitas of their own

1292
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,540
with their own bathroom and their own

1293
00:47:02,540 --> 00:47:05,660
terrace. So it's going to be really hopefully

1294
00:47:05,940 --> 00:47:07,780
just absolutely beautiful. I can't wait.

1295
00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:10,260
Carol Cox:
And you can get those pictures on that.

1296
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:12,300
Speaking your Brand.com page.

1297
00:47:12,340 --> 00:47:14,060
Go there. You can see pictures, even a little

1298
00:47:14,060 --> 00:47:15,820
video of the villa as well.

1299
00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:17,980
So again, the page is great.

1300
00:47:18,020 --> 00:47:20,540
Tiffany did an amazing job putting all this

1301
00:47:20,540 --> 00:47:21,860
together. So I think you have all the

1302
00:47:21,860 --> 00:47:23,020
information that you need.

1303
00:47:23,020 --> 00:47:26,140
So go ahead and apply so we can chat and

1304
00:47:26,140 --> 00:47:27,340
learn more about you.

1305
00:47:27,380 --> 00:47:29,060
All right. Well I think that's it.

1306
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:30,660
Tiffany, thank you so much for coming on the

1307
00:47:30,660 --> 00:47:31,980
Speaking Your Brand podcast.

1308
00:47:32,340 --> 00:47:33,660
Tiffany Hawk:
It's been great being here.

1309
00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:34,980
So much fun thank you.

1310
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:37,500
Carol Cox:
Until next time. Thanks for listening.