Okay.

Oh my gosh.

No. Wait a minute.

Seriously, you are standing between me and the hot tub. Welcome back to the Manuel transmission. This week's vinyl feels like an exhale

Yeah. Like releasing a massive bong hit.

Yeah. You can't you can't you can't half listen to it. If you try it, it it stops you cold, and you're like, what is happening right now?

Just wind, flute, and a guy who who seems to be transmitting to outer space.

Exactly.

I'm sorry. That album.

Well, yeah. Well, you didn't say what the album was.

New Blue Sun.

Yeah. Andre three thousand. It was it's been seventeen years since his last album. And this previous ones and it's crazy.

Yeah. It's wild. He said flutes are the closest thing to hearing a human. You're actually hearing someone breathe.

Yeah. He said that the album made him feel like a whole new artist and somehow more like himself at the same time, which I thought was cool. Okay. Well, but before we start, we should do high low.

Okay. Do you know what your high low is?

I

can start.

Sure.

K. So my high was last night we went to a jazz game. That was pretty cool.

Yeah. That was cool.

They got destroyed by the thunder, but it was a good time and we had great seats at the Gallagher club.

Yeah. They were.

And then

By the way, that guy, is it George and Scooby? Like this little chihuahua that's so cute and does tricks.

It's very smart. Very very well trained.

That's what I liked about the jazz game. I mean, cool too, guess. And hanging out with Lindsay was cool.

So you're that was your high?

Or No. No. No. I'm you're still going. Was just reflecting on your high.

Oh, okay. Cool. Well, that's nice of you to reflect with me.

You're welcome.

My low, probably playing golf this week. Oh.

Well, I think you're having a good week if your low was playing golf.

I know. I know. I'm not complaining. Know that. This is more self inflicted pain.

I'm almost three months into switching left handed. It's just so frustrating to be so bad. It is so bad.

I I feel I feel your pain. I I know that this is something you chose. So kudos to you for trying, being willing to look silly. I'm not saying you look silly, but you're being willing to.

If you've seen my swing.

It's actually really annoying how good your swing is Okay. On your left Let's see. Well, I in the middle, literally on Wednesday, in the middle of a really intense work week, took, went with the team to Epic in Orlando. It was really fun. It was it's it's fun to you know, we work really hard, and this team that had been working hard all week got to go out and play all day together.

And it's fun to watch grown ups act like little kids. It's really great.

So you've been to Universal. You've been to all of the Disney down there in Orlando. How did Epic compare to a day at either of the other parks?

I like them all. I don't know. I don't wanna have to pick. I just want

You want it all?

Yeah. I just want it all.

Alright. If you had to pick one park to go to, you could only go to one. You were there one day, but it was gonna be an epic day.

It depends on who I'm with. Oh. If we were there with the kids, I'd wanna for sure go to Epic because they haven't seen it yet, I'd love to experience that with them. The Ministry of Magic is unreal. It's so cool.

But if we're just going back, like you and me, for example, I'd wanna if it's second half of the day, walking around Epcot, having a drink at the different countries or a snack, That's a that's a fun just, you know, adults only walk through park. I like them all. Milo let's see. What was Milo? There's a couple different working relationships that the season came to an end.

Like, the, you know, one went a different way and one contract finished and that that's part of it. But it's like you really enjoy working with people and then they they move on to new opportunities and sad to sad to part ways, but sure we'll work together again. But I really like the people I work with.

That's like we talk about I just you put it together there for me, but we talk a lot about group formation Yeah. With the teams we work with and how it is cyclical. And the one part that was added later, but is a critical part, is you start with the forming, storming, norming

Performing.

Performing, and then a journey.

That's the part they added.

And and every time you lose somebody off of your team or you add a team member, you're starting a new team. Yeah. You're restarting because everyone is trying to figure out their

place Yeah. For new

So it's interesting that you're you're being really aware of or you're we're just as we're talking about it, that's what's going on in this season of your life. You're experiencing that adjourning part in multiple aspects. Yeah. So today, we're gonna interview each other.

Hey, before we do

Yeah.

That picture is crooked and it is really bugging me. I can't concentrate. Could you fix it? And I can't it's where you can reach it.

That is so interesting that you were really bothered by that. We had to stop everything. You

it, please?

It's not quite?

No, not quite. Oh, There you go.

Do you think that's Thank you.

No. I think you need to slide it to the right a little.

I think that that's good right Not

quite. Just a little more. Oh, there it is. Thanks. Now I can focus.

Now I can focus too.

Okay. So this could go great.

Or be evidence in our couples therapy. Oh. First question, we're gonna interview each other. You've coached a lot of leaders,

various

organizations. In your experience, what's one thing that leaders get wrong about coaching?

Well, think a lot of leaders think that coaching is fixing somebody. And so for example, they'll look at performance management as you know, like performance improvement plans as punitive or, that they're correcting somebody instead of instead of really seeing that person, meeting them where they are, understanding what's important to them, what their reasons for wanting to do well is I think that we should start with the baseline understanding or assumption that everybody wants to do a good job. And and then, you know, I think where we get tripped up is we we want them to do things for our reasons, but they don't do things for our reasons. They do them for their reasons. So we're fixated on our reasons.

We need them to perform, and we're just not even in the right arena. We need to uncover and talk to them about what makes them wanna succeed. So yeah. And then I think that they also, when they get it wrong, they think accountability is a threat instead of a gift. I don't know how you really recognize someone and help them feel seen in their accomplishments without going through the whole accountable road with them.

And I know you asked for one, I'm giving you like a bunch here,

but I love it.

I think they also think that resilience means just powering through no matter what. And that's just not that's just not true. Resilience means staying open, being aware, being intentional about the course you choose or stay on or change and being willing to get back up again and and try after you've failed, but taking lessons forward from failure. And that doesn't may mean you don't do the same thing again. May mean you do something different, but picking up and starting again.

And that, in its own way, to me, it feels like resilience. That, you know, like the part where the growth actually comes from the inside out.

I think when people hear resilience, they often think just toughness.

Yeah.

Push through. Don't feel anything. But resilience is actually just your nervous system learning how to come back to balance, that homeostasis.

Most most leaders aren't struggling with strategy. They're struggling with dysregulation. There's I've seen so many brilliant strategists, when the stakes are really high and the pressure's on, make massive mistakes. They're brilliant strategists, but they just make the wrong call because they aren't regulating because they don't they haven't worked on it.

And and that requires training to be able to develop that awareness. You don't just it's not an on and off switch.

Yeah. Mean, anyone can do it on a good day. It's the training is required so that you can do it when on the worst day.

And consistently.

Right. A lot of people think training is just about like the frameworks. And yes, of course, strategy matters, tactics matter, but 80% of the work is helping leaders regulate because self aware, emotionally regulated leaders create psychologically safe high performing teams.

See, this is why I married you. You say things like that while I'm over here like coffee good.

Not true. You always say like wise stuff and coach me through my tough days. What are you talking about?

Why do you coach? Like, what about it makes you wanna do it every day?

Well, I love coaching. I think that I don't necessarily do it consciously. It's just naturally a part of my flow. But I love watching people sort of wake back up to themselves. And I love that moment when someone realizes that they don't have to be stuck and they there's so much they can control.

I think people focus so much on what they can't control, and they waste their own finite resources putting attention and focus and effort into emotional bandwidth, into things that they have no control over. But when they realize they have a ton that they can control and they really pull it back through accountability to whether it be their mental approach to work, their, you know, their communication, their behaviors, there's so much that they can control and watching them really do that intentionally and then breakthrough is is so satisfying. And, you know, I believe that leadership is mostly emotional courage and nobody really teaches that. And so I just I love coaching.

That's awesome.

Okay, your turn. I'm gonna I'm gonna interview you.

Okay.

Okay. Why a podcast? Why why did you make me do a podcast with you? Just kidding. Why podcast?

Why now?

Well, we're not getting any younger. Mainly because the season that we're in right now, it feels really meaningful. Maybe a little messy, but, not enough to, to not share. And I think that, you know, we're growing, we're stretching ourselves, we're figuring things out just like everyone else. And we mentioned this in transmission three, but a client actually challenged our thinking about growth by asking us, how are you two going to scale your reach?

As we talked about it, a podcast is what felt most honest. Not polished content, not a manufactured brand, just, I guess, letting people in. I think a podcast felt like the easiest, most human way to do it. So the plan is just to sit down, hit record, and invite people into our actual conversations on Sunday mornings. Come to find out, it's easier said than done.

Yeah. That's true. It has had its challenges, but I like that, you know, showing the the humans behind the coaching. I think it's it helps I hope it, you know, makes it feel more accessible.

I think that a podcast lets people sit across the table from us without actually sitting across the table from us.

Yeah, so this is like our virtual coffee shop?

Sure. But I think that's why it matters. If we're gonna teach resilience, presence, and emotional courage, we should probably model it.

Okay. So what do you hope that this podcast gives people?

A laugh or two for sure. But maybe more than that, by listening, they'll get a sense of us. And selfishly, I hope it's grounding for us. A routine that we can use to grow and lead and change without burning out.

So a place to slow down and breathe and reflect?

Yeah. I guess so. A place to, yeah, slow down, laugh a little, learn a little, and I I think remember we're all dealing with something.

Yeah. Actually, on the way home from the gym, I sent I sent you a

I'm gonna have you hold up I'm a kidding. I'm listening.

Oh my gosh. I'm in the middle of a sentence, and you take off your headset and you get up to go get a glass of whiskey. Uh-huh. Okay. There he is.

I'll take a picture. No. You're not.

I'm gonna take a picture of you.

Right? No. You're not.

Okay. So let's describe the situation

right now. No. No. Love all the circumstances.

Let's do it. Describe

So you just said something really you just And said something really I was gonna reply to you. And I started to reply to you in mid sentence. I know. You still

have that thought.

You got up from your chair, took your headphones off, grabbed your glass, and left the room.

I'm sorry.

Are you refilled now? Am ready to go. You settled?

Ready to go.

Okay. I sent you a picture of my dashboard when I was driving.

I you saw that.

Yeah. Because the song I love that song. It's by Shinedown. Oh, what's it

called? Something human.

Yeah. Like being human. Anyway, such a such a good song. The lunatic ball. Okay.

Anyhow.

Thank you for that.

You're welcome. You should listen. We'll go get the the album. We'll we'll listen to that one Sunday.

Okay. K. Alright. Where were we? Okay.

Half of our fights dissolved. We don't

fight that much.

You don't think so?

I think we

Who do compare that to?

I don't know. What's like a normal amount of fighting?

Ask chat should be tea.

Okay. Okay. Hang on.

I wanna know.

Do you have your phone?

I do.

Let me borrow it.

Do you to do that?

Yeah. I don't have my phone.

Okay. I wanna know, what's a normal amount of fighting? Okay. What do you think it's gonna say?

Let's see what it says.

I think it's gonna say

How's your chat GPT?

It depends. I don't have the app.

Oh. Oh.

Remember, it's in my browser.

That's wild.

I've never had the app. I do.

Okay. How much

The answer is gonna The be

average married couple.

Successful married couple.

Average. Okay, average successful married couple.

Now before you put put submit, I want you and I to come to a number in which we feel like we have disagreements.

Like, that rises to the level of being called a fight?

Yes.

Okay. Well, recently, while we've been going through a bunch of crap the last three weeks Mhmm. Or, like, normally?

Well, I think average. And how do we how do we do it? See. On a monthly basis? Yeah.

Annual basis?

I'd say about twice a month.

Twice a month.

On average.

Twice a month, we have?

Once to twice.

Think that's probably closer to that.

Five to 1.5 is what I think. Probably

Like knockdown drag out?

No. That's like every year to eighteen months.

And what does a knockdown drag out look like?

I can think of in the last four years, two. How many can you think of in the last four years?

Well, I don't know. I can only think of the recent one. I have the memory of a goldfish. Sometimes that's awesome. Sometimes

that's annoying. Okay. What you want me to can I ask it now? Yeah. Please.

Okay. So I said, how much does the average successful married couple fight?

Yep.

What the research says. In 2022, a survey by YouGov of US adults in serious relationships, about 30% said they argue once a week or more. Twenty eight percent said once or multiple times a month, and thirty two percent said once or multiple times a year. One article on healthy relationships suggests that healthy couples tend to argue one to three times per week on average. Another piece points to a possible sweet spot of two to three fights per month for what appears to be healthier dynamics.

Importantly, it's not just the number of arguments that matters, but how couples fight and whether they repair and connect. Repair and reconnect. Hey, we always repair and reconnect.

Yep.

Occasional conflict is normal and even healthy. Being two people with different experiences and needs means disagreements will happen. Frequent minor disagreements can still be part of healthy relationships if they're handled respectfully. Big red flags. Daily or constant fights, recurring unresolved issues, emotional or physical harm, those may signal deeper problems.

You have no shit. The real marker of a strong couple isn't zero fights. It's regulation, repair, and mutual respect after disagreements. What this means is that for a successful married couple, depending on how you define successful, you might expect something like disagreements may be weekly or monthly depending on the stressors. Okay.

Yeah. Most fights are shorter, issue specific, and followed by reconnection. The ratio of positive interactions to negative ones remains high. Research often cites something like a five to one positive to negative interaction ratio in healthy relationships. We know about that.

Barbara Fredrickson's broaden to build

You are

such

a nerd, and I love it. Okay.

I think we're doing well according to that too. Yeah.

I mean

I mean, we're fighting plenty.

We're both laughing because we had a once in a decade fight in the middle of all the stress

we had. That's old news.

I know. But we didn't talk about it on here.

We didn't? Uh-uh. Oh. Well, that's a week old, man.

That's like two weeks old.

Two weeks old.

Hey. We're doing good.

Wow.

Okay. Let's get back on track.

You think that we have less fights because we are better at taking a perspective.

For sure. I think that the fights that we've had in the last month, there's just been a probably two or three, came because of the stressors that got to be so much that we didn't pause and reflect and maybe ask a question or challenge an assumption first. And instead just went to guns.

Don't wanna challenge my assumptions.

You do live with a redhead and I do live with a very stubborn man. So, you know, stuff happens.

Wow. I'm just a very stubborn man.

Well, you could say stubborn when you're being mean like I just was, or you could say tenacious. Do you we have a lot

of perseverance.

I'm trying to find nice words to say about your hard headedness. Well, I mean, like, last week, I snapped because I was overwhelmed, you just you didn't snap back. And I really appreciated that.

I don't know if that actually happened, but

It though it did happen. Oh. I remember.

I I wanted to snap back. I don't remember it, but I see, I'm back to the goldfish memory.

Uh-huh. You took a little breath. Yeah. That's the you paused. And then instead of matching my energy, which wasn't great, you said, hey, I'm on your team.

What's actually happening with you right now?

We've talked about that, how we, in a moment, how we approach each other with it. Because we can notice that the situation is not going very very well.

So like last week, when I I snapped at you, because at the end of the day, I was really tired. I was a little overwhelmed and you just, you didn't snap back.

I did notice if I am approaching you in a certain way, you soften and like literally in just a couple of seconds.

Yeah. I mean, is contagious. Energy is contagious. Dysregulation is also contagious. And you know, one nervous system kind of leads the room or the marriage in that moment.

Yeah. This is true. The energy's gonna follow

the think I literally at one point said, look, you could pour accelerant on this fire or you could pour water on this fire. Which is it gonna be?

I'm not I think it was just the way you were using accelerant with the way you were using your words.

That what bothered you? Yes. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Your words were very fiery.

Were you irritable?

It could have been. Do we wanna talk about that?

Nope. I want you to move on.

Okay. Next question. What's one unpopular leadership belief we hold?

You mean, like, a myth or something?

Sure. Maybe some that irritate you.

I mean, we just talked about this with a team a week or two ago. Feedback. Feedback isn't hard because it's because the skill is lacking. I mean, it is. But feedback is hard because people are emotional.

People are worried about how feedback might be received. There's risk in delivering feedback. There's risk in not delivering feedback. And so I think people focus on the skill of giving feedback, which, you know, is important for people to have. But also paired with that, I believe, is the awareness the awareness that of their own defensiveness or anticipation or nervousness and that of the person in the other person in the room.

And just that awareness will help navigate so that the skills can be applied.

What I I just messed What

the hell? What are you doing?

Wow. That was so rude. This is our date night, Monica.

I'm looking at the recording over there, and I accidentally snorted when I laughed, and there's a big spike in the little line. Anyway, okay. Try that again.

That is gonna be the visual for our podcast. All of our thumbnails is gonna be your snort spike.

My god. I will quit the podcast. That feels like a good place to land.

Yeah. I think so. Let's land this puppy.

Did you just say the feline? Good lord.

Listen, you can't rush the perfection.

Oh, okay.

Why you know what it is?

Perfection and a little less less perfection.

You're too far away from your mic. I can't hear you. Your goodness. Oh, yeah. Okay.

So if you're listening to this and you're figuring things out in real time too, same. We're right there with you.

Yeah. We're we're learning that showing up even if things are a little messy or a little tired, it still counts.

And you don't have to have three episodes in the can to start something meaningful.

Or or even one episode in the can apparently.

Exactly. So okay. Thanks for sitting with us in our virtual coffee shop. Remember that you are human and doing better than you think.

Yeah. And if you wanna try one brave thing this week, we're cheering for you, and we'd love to hear about it.

Have a great week. May your coffee be strong.

And your conversation stronger. I feel so funny every time I say that. Anyway, see you next Sunday on the manual transmission.

Why do you feel funny about saying that?

I don't feel like that. I don't know.

You don't like a tagline? Should we just

Inkerman or a thief. And that's how the cookie crumbles. Is that from what movie was that from? Jim Carrey. And that's how the cookie crumbles.

End your conversation stronger. I should feel like an idiot saying it. So are you saying you don't want it in there anymore? Whatever. I'll say oh my gosh.

Love you.

Woah. Oh. Welcome to it.

Don't make me quit the podcast. It's in my writer. You have to edit out all stuff where I sound like an idiot. That's gonna be hard. Hey, did we do it?

Can we go get in the hot tub now?

How do you feel about it?

I don't know.

Except for you getting on my case for losing my spot.

I would do get on your case. I just wanted you to hurry up.

I am a couple of whiskeys in.

Yeah. I can tell. You have to do a good job of editing.

Really?

Yeah. Okay.

Are you worried about this one?

Hey. Yeah. I am. K.

I should I just won't edit tonight.

Get your shit together. Let's go.

Wow. Well, first of all, it is Saturday night, almost 9PM, and we are here

Hey. Listen. The sooner we get this done, we get to go get in the hot tub. So I need you to focus up.

That's a good point. Okay. Okay. So let's shift gears.

Yes. Let's.

Okay.

Oh my gosh.

Wait a minute.

Seriously. You are standing

between me and the hot tub. My We're supposed to have, like, three in the can today.

Don't shut all over yourself.

And you are. He shouldn't all over myself.

Okay. Can we be done now? And that's how the cookie crumbles.