bobby_hoyt: are we talking about?
Track 1: Well, Robert, wh what was your question?
robert: Oh, um, my question was how often do you all cry?
Track 1: There you go.
robert: between
tears, like shedding one gangster tear versus a full on sa and don't say never.
bobby_hoyt: I haven't done a, I don't know the last time I've
done a full on, so that's been years, and I'm pretty sure that
Okay.
decided not to do that in my adult life or something.
I don't know.
I, I don't have any reasons why that would happen.
Um,
do notice though, um, after my wife gave birth to our son.
, movies hit different than they used to because I didn't realize how much
movies pull on, like, the parent heartstrings of like, you know,
something happens to the child.
And like, movies are way more emotionally powerful to me than
they used to be before I had a kid.
I don't know why.
I mean, I just didn't notice all that stuff.
And
something and like, they use it a lot in like almost every movie
a kid dying or something terrible happening and.
And then just, they play on that fear a lot, so I, I
you know?
Track 1: Yeah, I would agree that without going , too many levels deep
here, that the most recent times I've cried have been because of a movie or
show . Movies and TV shows can make me tear up again as a sort of new parent.
anytime there's a kid and they lose a kid like that, oh man,
there's something about that that.
But I have a, you know, I kind of know where to go in my Spotify
playlist if I want a good cry.
And, , you know, there's some songs that will like not make me tear up.
I will kinda like be, be shedding tears, bawling in my car,
listening to certain songs.
I won't be telling you , what any of those songs are.
But, uh, that happens every 3, 4, 5 months.
I'd probably.
ariel_gardner: I, yeah, , I just, I cried like maybe.
a quarter.
How about that?
And like, uh, whenever I don't feel good, I'll just cry cause I don't feel good.
and dad
Track 1: You just told us you cried every single day because of
the abuse you get on this team.
bobby_hoyt: we're talking
ariel_gardner: Oh, that's right.
Shoot.
I mean, every day, every day is when I cry.
Monday through Friday.
Working days.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah,
mean.
ariel_gardner: like a Monday holiday.
bobby_hoyt: I'm so mean to Ariel.
I'm such a terrible boss and just angry and everything that she cries
every day, which it is what it is.
No, um, yeah, and Michael made me tear up, but I think he teared up too.
But we were both drunk, so
Track 1: Yeah,
bobby_hoyt: and it was like way, way, way too.
It was like four in the morning or something and we had Maybe polished
off like an entire bottle of whiskey.
Uh, and we started talking, it was about kids.
He said something about my kid and I just, I teared up, man.
I remember
Track 1: I don't even remember this.
bobby_hoyt: Well, I
robert: That's hilarious.
bobby_hoyt: why I was a little hesitant to even talk about this.
But, uh, Michael and I have, we do these like retreats and what I've learned
is have to stop buying whiskey and stick to beer and wine if we're gonna
Track 1: I think we, I think we need to get like little mini bottles,
like three a piece or something.
That way the rest of the bottle's not sitting there.
Cause what's happened?
It's like our last night we're like, well, who's gonna take this whiskey home?
We gotta finish it now.
But
bobby_hoyt: we did that.
Yeah, we always argue and
yeah, it gets ugly,
Track 1: All right, Robert, what about
robert: Like every day.
I would say I probably have one proper cry every 18 months and
Track 1: Wow.
That's spread out.
robert: yeah, I don't, I don't like have a full on SOB very often.
and I will, I'll tear up at something probably like once every two to three.
my cryp tonight though, for that is the YouTube videos of like a
soldier coming back and surprising
Track 1: Oh man,
ariel_gardner: Oh yeah.
robert: that I don't know why
those
ariel_gardner: Uhhuh.
robert: get me.
And then the weird thing that always gets me is like videos of people like finishing
marathons or like ultramarathons.
I have no idea why, but I'm always just.
So, so proud of the accomplishment that they have made that like, it,
it, I like get actually choked up.
so weird.
bobby_hoyt: That's
Have you done one of those?
Is that why?
Is it like something where you have, or are you just.
Seeing somebody
all it takes.
robert: I honestly, okay, so I've done like a half marathon before.
And it just, I don't know exactly what it is.
It feels to me it's like a triumph of the human spirit, you know what I mean?
Of like, Hey, you used to be, you know, you couldn't even run
a mile and, and look at you now.
You just ran 26.2 of 'em and your family's there supporting you.
don't know, I just, I think I know like how hard they had
to work to accomplish that.
Maybe that's why it gets me.
I don't.
Track 1: Wow.
ariel_gardner: Uh, you know, what also gets me besides, , the soldiers coming
home, videos, any kind of like ceremony, like a, a graduation, anybody being
like inducted into anything like a Boy scout court of honor, like any type
of formal ceremony where like somebody has presented something or like an
award and I could like, have no clue.
I, I could be strangers with everybody there, but I will cry.
It just like, I'm so proud.
robert: That one.
Yeah, that one doesn't get me as much.
bobby_hoyt: one's.
ariel_gardner: no.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah.
I don't know if I've Ariel loves everybody though.
Cares about everybody.
ariel_gardner: Yeah, I do.
I am really proud of everyone.
Track 1: Now we know, , where to pull in each other's heartstrings.
Bobby, you seem like you're gonna be the hardest to crack , I guess.
bobby_hoyt: I don't, well, I mean, I've thought about like,
is there something wrong with me?
I don't cry, like I don't cry a lot, but unless somebody like passes
away, but like I've never, even as a kid, I didn't like cry a lot, so
I don't know, maybe I could just be totally dead on the inside, you know?
Maybe that's
ariel_gardner: My husband, he's not a crier.
only seen him cry.
We've been married for like 18 years I've only seen him cry once.
Track 1: Wow.
ariel_gardner: it was, yeah, one time and it was when we had taken a road trip
out to the northwest and we drove like a 1980 Volkswagen van again out there,
it broke down on the way back in Salt Lake City and we had to leave it there.
And we had to rent a car and like left the, the van again in like the
parking lot of a, a repair shop.
And as we're pulling out in this like little like Toyota Corolla or
something, he just started like sobbing.
He
Track 1: The only time your husband has cried in the marriage is
because you left a broken down car.
ariel_gardner: Yeah,
Track 1: Okie.
ariel_gardner: it was like he thought that, like he, I think it
was because he had put so much work into like getting it ready for the
trip and then it like didn't work.
You know?
Like he had failed us as
you know?
robert: Oh,
that's,
Track 1: feel like if we we keep talking, we're gonna have to have a budget for a
psychologist to come in and help our team.
Guys.
Today on the podcast we've got Bobby, our fearless leader.
We've got Ariel head of content.
We've got Robert, our email marketing guy, and this is Michael, director of
Operations here at Millennial Money Man.
Wanna get straight into it today.
it.
The questionable decision this week.
, I've got a pretty good one here.
So, , Our dear leader, Bobby tried to save money on his computer
monitor, uh, , but now he hates it.
He constantly complains about it.
It's not fully functional and , it's, it creates like a lot of, um,, stress
and anxiety for us as his team.
So the question is, was that a questionable decision?
So, Bobby, you wanna start us off?
bobby_hoyt: You
Track 1: Fill in, fill in the details for us.
bobby_hoyt: that you recommended this monitor to me.
Track 1: Well, Well, you left out a key component, which is we all agreed
that the more expensive monitor would've been better, but you were, you
weren't quite ready to make the leap
bobby_hoyt: time.
Okay.
At the time,
Track 1: to buy it.
bobby_hoyt: so I have a lot of Apple stuff.
I, I think that Apple is great, but I have been pissed off at Apple lately cuz every
freaking phone that comes out is exactly the same as the last phone with the slide
Like, everything that they're doing isn't, I don't think it's great anymore.
I think that they're just, they've figured out that people just keep buying the stuff
and they're stupid, which myself included, but, so I, I've been upset about.
And then I needed a new monitor because I, I decided to go from the
iMac to like a, just a monitor setup.
And the new iMac hadn't come out yet, so I was like looking at the monitors
and it was $2,000 for a monitor.
And I was like, this feels like robbery.
Like I, I'm tired of getting like screwed by this company over and over
again, and I'm gonna buy this thing.
And it's just like a glorified.
I could find for cheaper.
So then you were like, well you should get the Samsung inmate.
a great thing.
And you hadn't, and one
Track 1: I don't know.
That's a great thing.
bobby_hoyt: it.
You owned a previous model of it.
And I, and I trusted you because I was like, you know, Michael's a smart guy and
know, I brought him into my company.
I trust him, I believe in him and he's gonna steer me in the right
direction cuz he is also very.
so then I buy the thing and it doesn't freaking work.
Like it's a, it's a garbage piece of, , machinery that like, has all these issues.
And then I went from being like a relatively decently okay person
with tech to now I'm just an idiot.
And so now I'm just, every time I log into a meeting or nothing works and
everybody's sitting there waiting on me.
So, I'm mad at myself for not just spending the money on it.
And next time I won't make that mistake, but I also am gonna do it
because, I'm gonna do it begrudgingly
robert: You really, I feel like you've been having a tough time with tech lately.
I mean, you, the, the monitor,
the microphone, the camera.
bobby_hoyt: The problem
robert: When did about, roughly,
bobby_hoyt: that's
ariel_gardner: you think it's cuz you're getting older?
bobby_hoyt: Um,
do.
ariel_gardner: thirties, you
Track 1: Let's pivot.
Let's pivot here.
bobby_hoyt: No, I do think it's that too.
I've actually like been very aware lately, like one of the big pushes
that we're making as a team.
And by the way, Robert's on this podcast, nobody even
him.
Like everybody's against it, introducing people
robert: That's not necessary.
bobby_hoyt: Um, but I, I've very quickly, I started this business in 2015.
And it was a blog.
And in the, the span of time that I've done that, like it's, I've become
like a dinosaur, like very quickly.
and that's how fast the tech stuff moving and like, especially with like
TikTok and Instagram and all those things, like, we're gonna be doing
all of that now and I think there's still a lot of opportunity to do that.
But man, it, yes, I do feel old, like very fast like it's really,
it's really like I, we've gotta stay.
One of my big things.
Moving forward and like think I'm gonna put pressure on everybody
on the team to do is like, we have to stay up on like whatever's new.
Like we just have to, I haven't done a bad job of that, so
Track 1: Well, I hope we can make enough money to hire people that can do that
better, because I feel it as well.
I'm, I'm almost 30, and you'd think, oh, well, you know, if you just
keep your eyes on what's going on, you can kind of understand what's
going on with TikTok and all that.
But, oh my gosh, these kids.
bobby_hoyt: fast.
Track 1: like, they are just like living in their own universe with how they use
these things like TikTok and Snapchat.
And they have just like, they know how to make money off of it and they know how
to like, manipulate it for advertising and it's a lot to keep up with for sure.
I said the other day, I've, I finally feel empathy for like, , generations
ahead of me that can't keep up with the technology that I know about
because I'm, I'm feeling it myself.
ariel_gardner: As the oldest person on this podcast, I am almost 40,
and I feel this very deeply, and I think it's when you have kids,
they like suck your ability.
to, to stay up to date on things like they occupy that space in your brain.
So Robert is the child free person here.
Like if you wanna stay up to date on the happenings, you have to not have children
robert: you would, I would think it would be the opposite, whereas
you would kind of like through osmosis, be up to date on things.
bobby_hoyt: yeah.
ariel_gardner: well, I mean, you like know some stuff, but
robert: not talking about you, Bobby.
ariel_gardner: like know about things, but like you don't know how to.
you know what TikTok is, but you don't know how to TikTok
bobby_hoyt: is that just, are we just guessing, like Robert, do you feel
like you aren't keeping up with things
robert: So I've been thinking about this as we've been talking
about it, and here's what I think my problem is, is that I.
I think I'm more up to date than I actually am, right?
It's like I feel young and hip, but anytime I find myself around
someone who is, you know, 20 to 24
I feel like a dinosaur.
So I think I just have a misconception
my own, hip.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah.
I, I can't, it's hard to keep
ariel_gardner: That's fun,
bobby_hoyt: like totally separate from like the technology thing.
But I've always wondered about that, like when you see somebody that's
older, like they can't, they're fumbling around with their phone and they
need help with their phone and stuff.
I've never felt that way before until more recently where I'm like, I don't
know how to use things sometimes.
And I'm like, Michael, how do I do this?
And I can tell Michael's like, oh God, this guy's driving me nuts.
Where like, only a few years apart.
But I'm like, there it, it is.
And I have too many.
Different tech things
I think that's part of the problem too.
But it all
ariel_gardner: Nothing, nothing.
bobby_hoyt: me by giving me a bad recommendation for a thing that he
didn't even buy, and I just trust him a little bit too much too soon.
robert: Here's add to this actually.
Um, I think the, the difference between the
as I understand it, the price difference was pretty large, when you think about
something that you're gonna be using for, for work every day, you, you
know, our whole business plan, right.
You, you have to be able.
Yeah.
Would you like to?
Yeah.
Would you like to share?
bobby_hoyt: yeah.
Track 1: Hold on.
This is proprietary.
Like I may have to bleep this out.
If you tell people what our business plan is.
robert: Is it okay for me to share it?
Or Bobby, do you wanna be the one who
Track 1: Oh gosh.
Right.
bobby_hoyt: it
robert: for the first time ever?
bobby_hoyt: with this.
No, it took
with this, but I'm ready to share
robert: Okay.
Track 1: right guys.
Pay attention,
robert: let the people know what it is.
Well, hang on, hang on.
How can we preface this?
How can we add a little more hype to this?
This is the business plan you've developed after, earning boatloads
of money online over the past.
, what.
Eight years took you a really long time to arrive at this.
A lot of blood, sweat, and tears.
Okay.
bobby_hoyt: Not tears as much, but
Blood,
robert: Not tears.
We,
Of course.
Blood and sweat.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah.
yeah.
Yeah, no, the
is, and I tell this to the team very seriously.
We're gonna make money with the website week, then next week we're
gonna make money with the website.
And then the week after that we're also gonna make money with the website.
And what we need to do is just continue to do that single week until
we're making a lot of money with the website all the time, every.
robert: and
Track 1: the, on the.
ariel_gardner: strategy.
robert: yeah.
bobby_hoyt: it's a, it's a long game too.
You just have to follow
every single day.
robert: And, and so my point is just that, you know, if, if that's our strategy, you
would think that the tool that's gonna allow you to access the website, it's
worth spending a few extra dollars on.
Track 1: The place you see the internet where we make all of our money.
bobby_hoyt: Well, okay.
To be fair, this isn't, this isn't
either.
This isn't an $800 monitor.
Like I didn't, when I bought it, I wasn't sitting there going like, oh,
this is like a cheap piece of crap.
Which is a little strong.
I don't think it's that, but I, what I didn't what I, what I didn't
see coming, I didn't see the.
The problem is, is just the, like when I plug it into the computer,
it doesn't work all the time.
Like it's just, there's a, I think that the seamless integration
with an Apple product, so like,
I just don't, I just don't like it.
But I don't know.
I think it was,
this and, and not go with my gut of just spending more money and getting
Track 1: Well, and where, where I think it all comes down to if you had spent
less money on some other gadget, you know, okay, you, , you, you made a decision.
But I do think you, you run two internet companies, you have an office
with like four pieces of essential equipment, kind of feels like you
should tend towards the premium.
bobby_hoyt: don't know why you're talking down to me when you suggested this monitor
Track 1: Well, I didn't seig, I, I , I, I,
robert: It kind of feels like you shouldn't have done what I said,
bobby_hoyt: Yeah, I feel like, I feel like
robert: You should have known better
bobby_hoyt: you're talking about it like you're not involved in it.
Like you were very much involved with this like
Track 1: I tried, I tried to offer you like some alternative when I
knew you weren't willing to take.
Maybe I should just push you into your convictions.
bobby_hoyt: No, you
about this monitor too,
Track 1: No, the and, and the, well,
bobby_hoyt: do you think?
Like, I'm thinking about getting one too.
This is great.
So
Track 1: well, and, and so the little bit of background is
I bought my wife the M seven.
, I would never buy it for myself.
. not getting that from me.
But, uh, uh, I bought my wife the M seven.
It's a, it's a big size.
Uh, , it, it's, you know, the quality's good enough.
Um, so I, I thought that that was good.
And then the inmate form factor, I felt was very nice
and I think it does look good.
I think you would agree about that.
It's a good looking device.
bobby_hoyt: mean, yeah.
Track 1: so I, I mean, I guess I'm sorry.
I do think it was a questionable decision and, uh, in the future I'll
push you to just spend more money.
bobby_hoyt: I'm glad.
you advise me on things that they, they're questionable,
robert: I love that response to someone doing what you suggest to them though.
Like if it doesn't work out, like, well, you should have known
better than to listen to me.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah, I
robert: think that's great.
bobby_hoyt: I think it's great.
I don't know if that technically is gaslighting, but it's It's
robert: gonna keep that in my back pocket.
bobby_hoyt: You should, yeah.
All right, so this next segment is called Get the Guru, but I believe we're
just gonna be talking crap about gurus at some from different industries or
ariel_gardner: Well, the, , premise for the segment is that there's a
lot of guru advice out there now with social media and bloggers.
Even podcast hosts will all be gurus at some point offering advice, but
that we have to sort of like take some of it with a grain of salt.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah.
Okay.
ariel_gardner: least question what they're putting out into the world.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Track 1: And, and this one particular, I think you're gonna have to put a
lot of salt to make it palatable.
ariel_gardner: some onions, maybe.
bobby_hoyt: so if, you know, speaking of TikTok and Instagram and all the
things that, that I'm not great at, but we will be great at, , if you've
been on TikTok or Instagram at all, you've probably seen this absolutely
jacked, ridiculous looking guy that walks around without a shirt on ever.
Uh, huge beard, like just looks.
Pretty like he hasn't taken a shower because I don't think he takes showers
and I can't, I'm not sure on that.
But Liver king, right?
So Liver King blew up over the last probably year and a half,
two years, and uh, it's got millions of followers like just.
Whatever.
He's this guy that's like a health guy or like ancestral living guy.
Like, everything is like primal and like he's, he's trying to teach people
to like live by these nine ancestral tenants, , which we'll talk about,
but like basically everybody has been accusing him of being on steroids for.
because he clearly looks like he's on steroids.
Like if anybody looks like a person that takes steroids, he is it.
And he, he is sworn that he didn't do it.
It's all because these nine tenets of ancestral living that he does, he works
out a lot and all that kind of stuff.
Um, he had these very like politician like answers.
Every time somebody would ask him if he was on steroids, he was very
good at just kind of like, just avoiding the question completely.
And so it came out the other day on Twitter.
Uh, somebody dropped one of the emails that he, I guess, had sent to a trainer
or some, some person that he had worked with where he listed out all of the
things that he's been taking for years.
So like whole thing is, is just a fraud, right?
And like they, but so that's what this came from.
We were talking about it.
Robert didn't wanna talk about this for some reason.
I'm not totally sure why.
But
to do with marketers and, and this guy was marketing himself, right?
Like he was, he was a marketer for his company.
He makes supposedly a hundred million a year from his supplement companies.
And he was selling these supplements based on this ancestral living thing.
But really he was just doing steroids.
So like the way that he did, I wouldn't say just doing steroids,
that's probably not fair.
But he, I mean, I'm sure he works hard, but like he was selling something that
he was not actually doing at scale
Track 1: Yeah.
And
bobby_hoyt: that,
Track 1: you?
Well,
bobby_hoyt: that?
Okay.
Is that not okay?
I mean, if you help people, you know, that's where I kind of go with it.
But
Track 1: yeah.
It's called lying.
bobby_hoyt: yeah,
Track 1: He, he's a liar,
bobby_hoyt: That's fair.
Track 1: so that's not okay.
Uh, I've seen like a lot of apologi over the past, you know, week or so,
or however many days since that's come out, and there's just no way around it.
It's not marketing, it's lying.
Uh, you know, I don't know where you're gonna.
What your thought was on this, Robert, but, uh, I think people like this deserve
to crash, burn, and never, you know, you know, just live and squalor for those
lives because they're lying to people.
Um, I mean, this is no different than selling some, you know, water pill, you
know, that's gonna change your life.
Um, So I don't, I don't have a whole lot of love for the Liberty King.
Uh, I think that, uh, there's obviously some good things about, you know,
some of his teachings, but I think when you make money make a hundred
million a year, which let's, let's all,
bobby_hoyt: I don't think he
Track 1: let's all, let's all take that with a grain of salt, you know, uh, as
we know he's a liar, so there's a good chance he's not making that much money.
I think it's, it's squirmy and, and nasty and, I imagine he does smell bad.
bobby_hoyt: Well, that he smells bad probably because he doesn't use deodorant.
He's like very against the, uh, I guess there's, uh, aluminum in deodorants or
robert: Yeah,
ariel_gardner: Mm-hmm.
bobby_hoyt: that.
Track 1: Robert, do you use deodorant?
robert: no,
Track 1: I don't either.
robert: I use a crystal,
Track 1: Errol, do you use deodorant?
Okay.
Right, right.
Just just wonder.
Yeah.
Those don't work.
So you don't wear Theodor,
ariel_gardner: like baking powder, you know, baking soda, not baking powder,
Track 1: Bobby, I'm guessing you just straight up where Deodorant.
bobby_hoyt: I
Track 1: Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Cool.
robert: 48 hour interperate,
bobby_hoyt: uh,
robert: I'm guessing.
bobby_hoyt: think so, yeah, I don't
robert: good stuff.
bobby_hoyt: whatever it works.
I mean, it's, I don't smell like garbage, I don't think, and I
don't know if my wife says it smells good, so I'm cool with that.
I don't care, uh, his whole thing that like, okay.
My question about it, and this is where Ariel and I, when we were kind
of planning this, What if when you're doing something like he was doing where
he was basically at a very, very basic level was telling people to eat better
and to work out a lot and get enough sleep, do cold plunges, like the things
that he talks about are all good things?
I, well, I don't know if they're all good things.
I mean, he talks about like eating raw liver and, and all
organs and all that kind of stuff, and that's like his big shtick.
Like he eats a ton of the stuff on camera and it's really gross, but.
If the net benefit of him lying about this is actually helping a
lot of people, because I'm sure he is probably helped a ton of people
cuz he is got a big fan base.
Like what's, how do you like, if it's a net positive, like, is it really that bad?
Like yes, he's lying in this, that's bad, but is he only lying because
he thought nobody would take him seriously if he wasn't ripped?
robert: So I've been, I've been following this.
bobby_hoyt: You have been okay.
robert: I've been, I've been following, yes,
yes,
ariel_gardner: Please before you guys go into anything,
of the, of the Liver King before we started talking about this.
And he is like the kind of person I would see online and just like have a, an
immediate like, visceral reaction to like,
bobby_hoyt: Oh, not
ariel_gardner: of wanna make like vomit a
Track 1: Describe, describe more of what, what a person like that is for you.
ariel_gardner: Just so like the cordy muscles and the, uh, I don't know.
bobby_hoyt: the, yeah, all the stuff.
Yeah.
ariel_gardner: Yeah, that's, it's, it's just too much for me.
Like it looks unnatural.
Like it's unnatural this day and age, I think, to look like that
Track 1: As it turns out, it is unnatural.
bobby_hoyt: Yeah.
ariel_gardner: Exactly.
But I did like look up his tenets and even as much as I like, think this guy
is probably full of shit, think that, I mean, he, like you said, Bobby, like.
kind of preach some decent things like you need to sleep, you need to eat
healthy foods, you need to get in the sun.
You need to get cold.
I, I mean, I don't know that.
Have think that that's like a 10 that you should follow, but like, I, I
don't know, like I think he is probably helping some people live a, a healthier
life than they're used to and like yeah, there maybe is some benefit to
doing that if you're lying about it.
It's kind of shady if you're saying that like, I look the way I look and I'm this
way cause I've only done those things, but the, the idea of this like half truth
maybe like is there some benefit to.
bobby_hoyt: if
Track 1: Well, I have strong feelings on this.
bobby_hoyt: might have, I, Robert seems to know more about
all of this than any of us.
I don't know if you can reach people at scale the way that he
did with that kind of a health message without looking like that.
Like, I don't know if you can't, like, I don't know if that's
something you have to do to.
days, like on the internet, you have to look like that.
And the only way to look like that is to do steroids.
Like, I don't know.
But that seems to me like that's probably where this came from,
where he was like, I work out a lot.
A lot of men like deal with this, where they work out a lot and they start
to get older and they can't get the same kind of physique that they want.
He's got a brand about healthy living.
He was struggling with it, so he started taking all the stuff and then he didn't.
Caught is why?
Cause his business depended on him looking a certain way.
And so then he is got all these mouths to feed.
Like I could see it snowballing that way.
And not just him going, I'm gonna lie to people like, but that's just me
thinking maybe that there's a, he's a better person than he maybe is.
I.
robert: Yeah, so I've been following all of this stuff.
religiously over the past week, but I think it's all super interesting.
Um, and like the way that I, I guess first started actually paying
attention to Liver King stuff was like I, me and a friend were having
a conversation about him and we were like, do you think he's on steroids?
Um, and so then after that I went and just like checked out his stuff on Instagram.
And I think it's all like really interesting, right?
Like the non ancestral tenants.
All four.
I love that stuff.
I love a good cold plunge.
I love walking around barefoot.
I love being in the sun.
Um, and so if you watch, so he put out an apology video about this, and I don't
know if you guys have seen that or not, but he basically, he makes the point that
you're saying Bobby, where it's like, you know, I thought that if I talked about
this, it would detract from the message.
And so I think like I, I.
The challenge that most people have with it is this idea of you look this way,
you're applying that it's all natural.
You sell these supplements, you talk about these supplements in
all of your like Instagram stories and stuff, and so you are profiting
off of this falsehood, right?
And so I think that's the challenge people have.
I think the decision that was made somewhere along the line, cause like
he had the goal, if you look at the, the entire email thread, he was like,
I wanna reach a million followers by March, 2021 or, or whenever it was.
Right.
He knew exactly what he wanted to do and so I think it was just a
calculation of like, I'm gonna be able to reach more people if I, you
know, look this way, do these types of videos, this is how I'm gonna go viral.
And I saw somebody on, in a Facebook group the other day mention like,
there at least had to be some sort of calculation of like, okay.
If it comes out that I'm on steroids, what's the net benefit versus the
net loss and how am I going to handle that from a PR perspective?
So I think there was like some conscious choice in all of it of like, need to
do this to blow up and if worst case scenario, here's how I'm gonna address it.
Track 1: I think you give a lot of credit to people like that.
Um, I, I mean, I think regardless of, I, I mean this comes down
to utilitarianism, right?
Like does the outcome.
Justify the means.
And I think that right and wrong is not based off of what it accomplishes.
I don't think that the Liver King owned the nine ancestral, uh, tenant, you
know, and they're not really that novel.
There's plenty of people that talk about, um, those tenants better than he does or
in more depth than actually help people.
So I think you have someone here who through some combination of social
media prowess and shock and awe, That shock and awe to not just try and teach
people he was selling products, right?
There's plenty of people who want to teach people and there's plenty of
people who are natural and, and do that, but it's okay to, if you wanna
be on steroids, okay, that's fine.
But to lie about it and then to sell products behind it, I mean,
what there, that isn't just, that's not justified in my opinion.
bobby_hoyt: I
Track 1: so I don't know.
bobby_hoyt: the right thing that he did.
I just.
I don't know.
I would like to know more about like how, how that all like, yeah, he had
goals and stuff, but I think you see this a lot with the internet now.
It's like people have to do, they feel like they have to do certain things to
maintain their business or to grow their business and they're things that like you
wouldn't wanna do, like people get plastic surgery and like all sorts of stuff.
Like, and I, and I think that, I don't know, I wonder if how many
people get trapped in that versus.
I, I actually don't really care that he did steroids.
I think it's bad that he lied about it.
I think it would've been smarter for him to just say, yeah, I do, I do steroids
in addition to all these other things.
And that's why it looked like this.
If you don't wanna look quite like this, but you still wanna look close to this,
then you can do these other things.
I think that would've been smarter.
But I don't know.
I, I have a feeling that he probably, a lot of people get trapped in this stuff
instead of just like plotting it out and trying to be like an evil mastermind.
So I, I give him some, maybe some grace without knowing him at all.
He
robert: Yeah, so I think like,
ariel_gardner: little.
I think there is maybe more of a trend recently to having like
influencers kind of be a little bit more transparent about what goes
into who they are in their identity.
And I, I think that's something that we're seeing because we, because of
people like Liver King or you know, somebody who's had plastic surgery that's
promoting some like diet, type trend.
Um, And, and, and I think it's smart when those influencers do it.
And like, as a customer, I would rather buy something from somebody
who is just completely honest and, and says like, listen, this is,
uh, you know, this is who I am.
This is what I've done to, to look a certain way or to to be the person I
am that that's in front of you, I mean, I'm not gonna buy anything from the
liver king ever, but I, I would be more willing to do that if they, if there
is that honesty and openness up front.
And I think that you're seeing more of that because there is that
realization, like I think the, the whole, uh, influencers on a pedestal
thing has kind of started to crumble a little bit and grateful for that.
So.
bobby_hoyt: I
robert: Yeah, I think I was listening to, um, Joe Rogan had a podcast the other day
with a guy named Derek , who was the one who sort of brought this all to light?
Right?
And they were talking about like the ethics of people like that
saying like, Hey, I am on steroids.
Right?
And it's like when you think about the audience of the Liver
King or somebody like that, a lot of it is like, Younger dudes.
And so you think about if your audience is like 16, 17 year old
guys, do you want to influence them to say like, oh, if I wanna look like
that, then I need to do steroids?
Right.
So it's like, it's kind of this double edged sword where if you are honest about
this is what it takes to look like that you're potentially influencing people to
make decisions that aren't necessarily.
And their best health interest.
So
Track 1: Yeah, it's, it's almost like.
robert: complicated topic,
ariel_gardner: honest about it.
it sounds co.
I mean, he could, he could be, you know, like once you
reach 35 start taking steroids.
I don't know, like.
bobby_hoyt: Well, I think, I don't even know.
I mean, I think there's a lot of probably misconceptions about steroids
and what they are because the more that I've kind of like seen some of
the stuff, like a lot of it isn't, Like it's more like testosterone and,
and other things that aren't what I would think of as like steroids,
which I don't even know what that is.
Like I, I've always thought of it as just some kinda like crazy
chemicals that you put in your body.
Like it doesn't seem like it's that outside of the realms of like if you went
to a testosterone doctor, like what some of them would do and somebody would then
knows way more than me would have to.
Clean that up.
But it just seems like there's kind of like levels to it and some things are
actually like doctors are saying, yes, you should be doing this if you're a man,
cuz your testosterone and levels have dipped and like, this is good for you.
Um, so I don't know.
It's just, it's a weird, it is a weird thing.
He probably should just been honest though.
Does he get bigger now?
Not, not in terms of just like getting jacked?
Like
he,
robert: like physically, does he get bigger?
bobby_hoyt: does this, does this, is this good for him?
Like, does this actually, cause I saw his apology video and all that stuff.
Like, does his brand grow from.
ariel_gardner: I think
does with it, like what he does next.
bobby_hoyt: think, I think that it's like, I think the, the age that we
live in now is like, and I think this has been true for a while anyway, but
controversy is good for your brand.
Like I think he's actually gonna come out of this with way more followers,
way more people knowing who he is, because like people like us are
even talking about it to people that have never heard about him before.
So I think it actually, like there's
he probably has known that this is gonna.
For a long time anyway.
Wouldn't surprise me
he was reading something when he did his, like his apology.
I wouldn't surprise me if he's had that sitting around for like a year, just
for whenever it comes out, you know?
So I
robert: Yeah.
I think what it'll
bobby_hoyt: think it's good for you,
Track 1: All right guys.
Be on the lookout for Bobby, uh, making some outrageous claim of something he's
never done so that we can grow as a brand
bobby_hoyt: I'm just saying that's the ne, I'm not saying we should do that, but
I do think that's what's gonna happen.
Like I think that he's gonna benefit.
All the controversy surrounding it.
I don't think he's
robert: Yeah, I think that'll.
think that'll be really interesting.
And one thing that like I've, I've noticed a little bit, even when I talk
about it, is like the verbiage you use about liver king, like, do you
say liver king is, or Liver king was.
And I like, when I've been thinking about it, I've been noticing myself
using the phrase like liver king was.
And it's like, oh man, is he, is he gone now or what?
So it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next month or.
ariel_gardner: All right guys.
Thank you,
bobby_hoyt: Oh, crap, Go ahead.
I blew it.
Go ahead, Ariel.
ariel_gardner: Thank you for listening to Questionable Decisions.
We wanna hear your decisions so we can determine whether
or not it was questionable.
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with another questionable decision.
Talk soon.
robert: Amen.