1 00:00:00,060 --> 00:00:00,860 Hi, everyone. 2 00:00:00,860 --> 00:00:05,261 Welcome to The Long Game, a Heated Rivalry podcast. 3 00:00:05,261 --> 00:00:07,762 My name is Silvan and I'm joined with Declan. 4 00:00:07,762 --> 00:00:12,165 So we are going to be breaking down episode two of Heated Rivalry. 5 00:00:12,165 --> 00:00:16,958 So for those of you stuck around for the first episode, thank you so much for downloading and listening and watching. 6 00:00:16,958 --> 00:00:18,520 We really appreciate it. 7 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:20,812 Episode two gets into a lot. 8 00:00:20,812 --> 00:00:24,934 So I'm looking forward to this conversation with Declan and how we break this down. 9 00:00:26,190 --> 00:00:28,331 Yeah, a lot goes on here. 10 00:00:28,331 --> 00:00:31,805 You get a lot more development for Shane and Ilya's relationship. 11 00:00:31,805 --> 00:00:37,010 And I think you're starting to get more of the emotion begin to bleed in maybe into this one. 12 00:00:37,010 --> 00:00:49,238 Where it was before they had the sort of excuse of, know, this is just us sleeping around, we're just having little trysts, it's nothing serious, to real proper intimacy. 13 00:00:49,238 --> 00:00:52,020 And yeah, very 14 00:00:52,471 --> 00:00:55,720 Highly emotionally charged moments, let's say. 15 00:00:56,337 --> 00:01:00,859 And I really like the way they open this episode out where you've got both of them jogging. 16 00:01:00,859 --> 00:01:02,841 One's in Montreal, one's in Moscow. 17 00:01:02,841 --> 00:01:05,682 So there's a mirroring sort of going on there. 18 00:01:05,682 --> 00:01:16,092 And I like the way they've integrated the text messages on screen because whilst it doesn't pull focus, I think it adds to the sort of the narrative. 19 00:01:16,092 --> 00:01:24,719 I remember you talking in the last episode about, you know, in the book, there's a lot of thoughts and a lot of narrative that you can't always put across on screen. 20 00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:27,922 And so I think they're doing a really good job at doing that. 21 00:01:28,535 --> 00:01:32,888 Yeah, it's a really clever way of working around that sort of inner monologue. 22 00:01:32,888 --> 00:01:42,455 And I think the way in which Shane's thoughts in particular are sort of communicated through the text messages, the way he will type something out, what he actually feels and 23 00:01:42,455 --> 00:01:43,916 what he actually puts out there. 24 00:01:43,916 --> 00:01:51,083 So infamously at the end of the episode, you have the we didn't even kiss and he doesn't send it. 25 00:01:51,083 --> 00:01:56,675 Obviously in the book you would get that thought in his head, my god we didn't even kiss, that was so impersonal, that was so awful. 26 00:01:56,675 --> 00:02:03,453 And in this you sort of see that visualisation of him not voicing what he's truly feeling. 27 00:02:03,453 --> 00:02:05,539 I find that's such a good way of communicating it. 28 00:02:05,539 --> 00:02:12,782 It also communicates about his personality as well, that he is feeling all these things very deeply but he's not communicating it. 29 00:02:12,782 --> 00:02:17,034 And he's very torn in his thoughts, everything isn't quite flowing as well as he's used to. 30 00:02:17,034 --> 00:02:20,344 Because by this point we've established Shane likes 31 00:02:20,344 --> 00:02:24,337 structure, likes to know what he's doing, he likes to have things done his way. 32 00:02:24,337 --> 00:02:31,252 Upon rewatching it, have you noticed how he folds his clothes when they're about to have sex? 33 00:02:31,376 --> 00:02:32,287 I love it. 34 00:02:32,287 --> 00:02:38,926 If someone came into my room and started folding clothes, like, that would be the biggest turn on for me. 35 00:02:38,926 --> 00:02:40,578 I'm not going to lie. 36 00:02:41,813 --> 00:02:47,778 Just the way the pants, the shirt has to be carefully folded on top and then laid down very gently. 37 00:02:47,778 --> 00:02:49,469 And it's so funny. 38 00:02:49,469 --> 00:02:54,204 And Ilya laughs at it as well because it's so indicative of his personality. 39 00:02:54,204 --> 00:02:57,046 there's little moments of endearment there as well. 40 00:02:57,046 --> 00:03:01,109 And obviously that leads to this attraction growing between the two of them. 41 00:03:01,517 --> 00:03:08,171 Yeah, and I think that the texting and deleting the text or not sending the text is so real for a lot of us. 42 00:03:08,171 --> 00:03:13,855 I mean, how many of us have written out a whole paragraph or a whole monologue and then just gone delete? 43 00:03:14,706 --> 00:03:15,416 Yeah, 100%. 44 00:03:15,416 --> 00:03:25,000 It's that leaving things unspoken, unsaid, not quite having the courage to say what you think and what you feel and mean, which seems to be a chronic issue for these two. 45 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:31,633 They absolutely avoid expressing their emotions in any way, which is direct. 46 00:03:31,633 --> 00:03:38,695 They will happily dance around each other to the point where they're upsetting one another and getting really frustrated. 47 00:03:38,695 --> 00:03:49,615 I feel a lot of that frustration from Shane in this episode in particular where he's not quite getting back from Ilya what he's kind of looking for and Ilya is getting the same as 48 00:03:49,615 --> 00:03:49,855 well. 49 00:03:49,855 --> 00:03:57,915 Shane is giving him, he's avoiding him a lot of the time, especially whenever they have that initial agreement to meet up to have sex and then it goes wrong, the playing gets 50 00:03:57,915 --> 00:04:05,311 cancelled and then there is this these months and months and months of Shane just sort of teasing Ilya a little bit. 51 00:04:05,375 --> 00:04:14,392 and Ilya just trying to be like oh I know you want it, I know you want it, keep on trying, just sort of wearing them down over and over time and yeah it's such a good way of 52 00:04:14,392 --> 00:04:24,077 communicating their dynamic and what it's like and how kind of exhausting it would be actually to be in that situation and how unsure of yourself you would be. 53 00:04:25,369 --> 00:04:26,379 I absolutely agree. 54 00:04:26,379 --> 00:04:35,969 like that you picked that up because realistically, I mean, in a situationship or on a hookup kind of situation, the communication isn't all that clear. 55 00:04:35,969 --> 00:04:41,214 You're not really professing, you know, your deep feelings because you don't want to scare someone away. 56 00:04:41,214 --> 00:04:46,109 You don't want to come across as intense or too much, for example. 57 00:04:46,109 --> 00:04:51,353 And I think that that's rooted in the genuineness and in the authenticity of this. 58 00:04:51,479 --> 00:04:56,413 They're not good communicators because they don't really know each other that well. 59 00:04:56,855 --> 00:04:58,846 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 60 00:04:58,846 --> 00:05:05,389 And people tend to forget that in the series, within these first few episodes, they're in their early 20s. 61 00:05:05,450 --> 00:05:09,253 So they are and neither of them are frequent daters. 62 00:05:09,253 --> 00:05:11,784 Ilya sleeps around, but he does not date people. 63 00:05:11,784 --> 00:05:20,479 Shane doesn't date people because he's gay and he doesn't want to date women, even though, you know, if he ever wanted to date, he could only date women because that would be the 64 00:05:20,479 --> 00:05:21,781 only thing would be acceptable. 65 00:05:21,781 --> 00:05:23,772 So neither of these guys have any 66 00:05:23,772 --> 00:05:29,285 real dating experience and even less so with a homosexual relationship to begin with. 67 00:05:29,285 --> 00:05:33,228 So there is so much in that as well. 68 00:05:33,228 --> 00:05:34,629 There's a realism to that. 69 00:05:34,629 --> 00:05:44,134 They're behaving exactly how two completely unsure overly horny 20 year olds would behave who have absolutely no romantic experience whatsoever. 70 00:05:44,374 --> 00:05:52,074 Yeah, and I don't know what timeframe, I think it's like early 2010, 2011 that we're at at this point, I think. 71 00:05:52,074 --> 00:06:01,634 I mean, if you look at the landscape, the social landscape then, there's no real role modeling for them to base how should I behave on previously. 72 00:06:01,634 --> 00:06:07,814 Like even if we think about what was going on in 2010 in real life, like there's no real role models. 73 00:06:07,814 --> 00:06:11,734 There's no real blueprint about how we should behave. 74 00:06:11,734 --> 00:06:14,534 Like how many of us were in our early 20s 75 00:06:14,664 --> 00:06:24,492 you know, potentially for some of us, I don't want to group all of us together, potentially, you know, like going on Grindr, hooking up, not really communicating, you 76 00:06:24,492 --> 00:06:26,924 know, being really messy with it all. 77 00:06:26,924 --> 00:06:30,746 Like there's a lot of people that will identify with that. 78 00:06:31,637 --> 00:06:32,517 yeah, 100%. 79 00:06:32,517 --> 00:06:39,399 I think whenever you're in the sort of like hookup culture and it does happen a lot more when you were younger and it would have for me as well. 80 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:41,800 And you're a lot more careless with people's feelings. 81 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:43,150 So you are a lot more careless. 82 00:06:43,150 --> 00:06:51,382 To the point now you're like, I do think back the interactions I had with people and thought I could have like been nicer about that or I could have put that a different way 83 00:06:51,382 --> 00:06:53,132 or I didn't quite approach that right. 84 00:06:53,132 --> 00:07:00,804 So I got in over my head in that situation and it's really a learning curve, but it's something that 85 00:07:00,955 --> 00:07:08,710 As you get older, I think you have an inclination you want to come out of as you're sort of learning more and you're getting those experiences and it's happening to you as well. 86 00:07:08,710 --> 00:07:14,955 You're having these awful moments where someone's not really being great to you and they're not communicating correctly and you're getting all these hangups. 87 00:07:14,955 --> 00:07:20,019 But I think as you mature and then you learn from those and you sort of learn that you don't want to inflict it on people. 88 00:07:20,019 --> 00:07:27,393 It's supposed to take you into a different phase of your sort of dating, your dating life, your dating relationships where you want something a bit more serious. 89 00:07:27,393 --> 00:07:28,774 You want something 90 00:07:28,831 --> 00:07:38,991 that matters a bit more but I think they're still sort of stuck in that sort of like I like this guy and I have no idea how to effectively communicate how much I like him and it 91 00:07:38,991 --> 00:07:44,826 also scares the shit out of me because I'm not supposed to like him and this could ruin my career and ruin my life. 92 00:07:45,483 --> 00:07:50,554 One of the things that you talked about was, you know, Shane folding the clothes and being very meticulous. 93 00:07:50,554 --> 00:07:52,765 You know, he follows a macro biotic diet. 94 00:07:52,765 --> 00:07:55,907 I don't even know what that is, but it sounds very regimented. 95 00:07:55,907 --> 00:08:00,939 I keep having flashbacks of Madonna from the 90s talking of Gwyneth Paltrow talking about macro biotic diets. 96 00:08:00,939 --> 00:08:11,291 But uh and one of the theories that I've picked up on from like fan edits and reading TikTok comments and things like that is is Shane potentially being autistic. 97 00:08:11,972 --> 00:08:12,852 Now, 98 00:08:12,932 --> 00:08:21,868 I can see where some of those arguments are coming from, but I'm interested in how it comes across in the book. 99 00:08:23,849 --> 00:08:27,650 In the book, there is sort of like an element of that. 100 00:08:27,650 --> 00:08:32,445 Shane is obviously popular because he's non-confrontational for most people. 101 00:08:32,445 --> 00:08:40,909 But yeah, there's always like an unsure about the situations he's in, the sort of conversations he's having, quite easily distracted whenever he's speaking to people. 102 00:08:40,909 --> 00:08:48,625 But in terms of like anything in terms of like mental health directly related to him, actually there is this sort of theme. 103 00:08:48,625 --> 00:08:50,637 free out the book about Shane's diet. 104 00:08:50,637 --> 00:08:56,221 And it's quite commonly brought up to the point where you won't know this from the show yet. 105 00:08:56,221 --> 00:09:01,423 But you'll notice little elements of it, like his mom orders him salmon and brown rice. 106 00:09:01,423 --> 00:09:02,624 And it's always a ginger ale. 107 00:09:02,624 --> 00:09:04,226 He very rarely drinks. 108 00:09:04,226 --> 00:09:06,117 When he drinks, it's like him letting down his hair. 109 00:09:06,117 --> 00:09:11,996 There's almost like moments of growth whenever he has an alcohol, you'll have a big story point then. 110 00:09:11,996 --> 00:09:23,422 And there is a sort of maybe OCD sort of element to his character, where you do get the folding of the clothes, the way in which he has his Mother sort of schedule out his entire 111 00:09:23,422 --> 00:09:24,242 life. 112 00:09:24,303 --> 00:09:26,504 like lots of 113 00:09:27,060 --> 00:09:32,402 know, cutaways comparing Ilja's life to Shane's and Shane is always doing something. 114 00:09:32,402 --> 00:09:34,383 There's always something he has to be doing. 115 00:09:34,383 --> 00:09:38,955 He is suddenly a landlord as well as a massive hockey player. 116 00:09:38,955 --> 00:09:46,747 He has all these advertisements going, all these sponsorships and everything is very, very strict and very organized about Shane's life. 117 00:09:46,747 --> 00:09:52,811 And he seems to like really crave after that sort of stability financially, things like that. 118 00:09:52,811 --> 00:09:59,248 there are lots of elements of his personality that could give off neurodivergent sort of tendencies. 119 00:09:59,248 --> 00:10:05,406 So it wouldn't surprise me if someone did put two and two together and suggested that he did or was on the autism spectrum. 120 00:10:05,406 --> 00:10:08,468 Yeah, it's not an outrageous idea, so it's not. 121 00:10:08,963 --> 00:10:15,889 Yeah, and I think as you watch the episodes later on, other things will come up and other sort of tendencies will come up. 122 00:10:15,889 --> 00:10:25,237 But I really like the OCD that you talk about because there is I can see elements of of sort of rituals, but without the catastrophizing of it. 123 00:10:25,237 --> 00:10:32,914 So unless that's an inner sort of monologue that comes across in the book, but that's definitely not coming across on the TV show necessarily. 124 00:10:33,535 --> 00:10:38,477 Yeah, which is good because that's it's funny. 125 00:10:38,477 --> 00:10:50,752 I'm thinking from the having read the second book, I know that this is going to be a problem because his mental state is going to become more uncertain. 126 00:10:50,832 --> 00:10:51,383 So it is. 127 00:10:51,383 --> 00:10:56,975 And when it becomes uncertain, these tendencies that he has all sudden become more extreme. 128 00:10:56,975 --> 00:10:57,695 So they do. 129 00:10:57,695 --> 00:10:59,902 So I'm going to leave that there. 130 00:10:59,902 --> 00:11:04,160 for nobody else that knows anything else about the book or the second book. 131 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:13,495 yeah, this is not the last time we'll be seeing these sort of personality sort of traits or sort of neurodivergent traits that you see in Shane. 132 00:11:13,555 --> 00:11:18,368 Yeah, and I like that you talked about sort of, know, Shane having sort of been Mr. 133 00:11:18,368 --> 00:11:19,318 Businessman, Mr. 134 00:11:19,318 --> 00:11:22,123 Landlord, to put it in Ilya's words, 135 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,492 And I'm also thinking about the family structure around him. 136 00:11:25,492 --> 00:11:34,188 So I know we talked a little bit about that in the previous episode whereby Shane has a very solid sort family foundation around him. 137 00:11:34,188 --> 00:11:38,311 His mum is pretty much like the Kris Jenner of the Kardashians, let's be honest. 138 00:11:38,311 --> 00:11:39,681 um 139 00:11:39,681 --> 00:11:43,387 I think in the show the mom seems to be his agent. 140 00:11:43,387 --> 00:11:46,822 She seems to handle all his sort of business transactions, things like that there. 141 00:11:46,822 --> 00:11:52,901 So I think that's a good way of having her more involved in the show because that's not the case in the book. 142 00:11:53,452 --> 00:11:54,252 Interesting. 143 00:11:54,252 --> 00:11:58,892 I mean, I quite like that dynamic because it's that momager kind of dynamic. 144 00:11:58,892 --> 00:12:05,532 you're right, it puts them in a lot of more, it puts them together in a lot more scenes than you have with the dad, for example. 145 00:12:05,532 --> 00:12:09,192 The dad kind of comes across as a bit, he doesn't really have a clue. 146 00:12:09,192 --> 00:12:11,332 Like he doesn't even know what YouTube is. 147 00:12:11,774 --> 00:12:16,856 he just sort of shows up and is told to go where he's supposed to go. 148 00:12:16,856 --> 00:12:21,177 And that seems to be the sort of idea of their relationship. 149 00:12:21,177 --> 00:12:25,919 it is to get the dad actually comes across more neurodivergent than he does. 150 00:12:25,919 --> 00:12:27,600 But I kind of like that aspect of it. 151 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:29,460 I like the dynamic between him and the mom. 152 00:12:29,460 --> 00:12:31,001 think it's quite cute. 153 00:12:31,001 --> 00:12:34,989 And there is a sweetness to their relationship that they also have with Shane. 154 00:12:34,989 --> 00:12:42,351 Obviously, the fact that Shane is now an adult and he's all these things, you know, they're still very much present in his life and they're very involved in that way. 155 00:12:42,351 --> 00:12:50,363 and that creates such a huge contrast between Shane and Ilya's family, which couldn't be more opposite. 156 00:12:50,894 --> 00:12:59,138 Yeah, and here in this episode, we really get that confirmation of Ilya's father having a dementia or some sort of dementia here. 157 00:12:59,299 --> 00:13:07,954 It's very apparent in that conversation where they're getting ready for the gala and he's sort of fixing his tie and he's talking about your mum and he's like, my mum's dead. 158 00:13:07,954 --> 00:13:13,977 And I like that they also give us a bit more backstory because they didn't in the first episode about where is Ilya's mum? 159 00:13:13,977 --> 00:13:14,888 Like what happened? 160 00:13:14,888 --> 00:13:17,910 You know something's happened, but we don't know where she is. 161 00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:23,927 And so there you're right, there is this complete contrast between sort of family structures, but also family dynamics. 162 00:13:23,927 --> 00:13:27,501 You can see, Ilya doesn't have that support system. 163 00:13:27,501 --> 00:13:34,238 mean, in my head, I'm thinking if Shane's mom is doing all these sort of brand deals for him, who's doing that for Ilya? 164 00:13:34,238 --> 00:13:36,350 Because you don't see it come across. 165 00:13:36,411 --> 00:13:40,404 Yeah, you'll notice that Ilya has no support system. 166 00:13:40,404 --> 00:13:43,597 And I said this in the last episode, but it makes it very, very clear in this one. 167 00:13:43,597 --> 00:13:46,339 He basically has Svetlana. 168 00:13:46,339 --> 00:13:47,881 Is that the right way to say it? 169 00:13:47,881 --> 00:13:49,081 Svetlana. 170 00:13:49,081 --> 00:13:57,689 She is the only one in Ilya's life, which is actually like on his side in any way, where sort of Shane's family is there to support him, lift him up. 171 00:13:57,813 --> 00:14:04,979 and to sort of give him as many opportunities as possible and to provide for him and be there for him and to help him manage his life. 172 00:14:04,979 --> 00:14:06,480 Elia's is the complete opposite. 173 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:07,451 They are leeches. 174 00:14:07,451 --> 00:14:13,326 are constantly, especially his brother, Alexei, he is a drain on him. 175 00:14:13,326 --> 00:14:14,347 He's a leech. 176 00:14:14,347 --> 00:14:16,581 He is constantly trying to steal off him. 177 00:14:16,581 --> 00:14:18,271 He wants money for drugs. 178 00:14:18,271 --> 00:14:25,959 And Elia feeling this very strong family obligation to look after his sick father, despite the fact that his father isn't very nice to him. 179 00:14:25,959 --> 00:14:31,023 He is only ever critical of Ilya and as result, Ilya very much just sort of takes everything on himself. 180 00:14:31,023 --> 00:14:34,325 It's a lot of pressure, again, taken back to their age. 181 00:14:34,325 --> 00:14:43,569 They're just in their early twenties and Ilya is quite a young man and having to take on the pressure of supporting his entire family, of carrying the family legacy, of not 182 00:14:43,569 --> 00:14:49,694 shaming them as well, especially the fact that Ilya is bisexual has to cause so many of these complicated feelings in him. 183 00:14:49,694 --> 00:14:53,986 And you will notice that Ilya a lot sees shame with his mother. 184 00:14:54,043 --> 00:14:57,383 a of the time in the TV show he will see a shame of his mother. 185 00:14:58,363 --> 00:15:05,243 And the contrast for him must be so stark that Shane has this huge support system and there must be bit of envy there as well. 186 00:15:05,243 --> 00:15:09,163 I do think it does come out sometimes in the interactions that they have. 187 00:15:09,563 --> 00:15:16,243 But yeah, I really liked the sort of Russia sort of storyline in this episode. 188 00:15:16,243 --> 00:15:17,803 I think it was really needed. 189 00:15:18,540 --> 00:15:27,665 Yeah, and I like that you were talking about sort of, you know, the way Elia must have been raised and what kind of an impact that must have on you, sort of not just on your 190 00:15:27,665 --> 00:15:36,841 attachment style, but as you're growing up, because what happens is you grow up in a very critical environment, essentially, you know, I mean, I gather that he's been the main 191 00:15:36,841 --> 00:15:39,112 provider for his family for a very long time. 192 00:15:39,112 --> 00:15:40,633 This isn't new. 193 00:15:41,353 --> 00:15:44,735 And so his role in the family isn't as a child. 194 00:15:44,735 --> 00:15:46,596 He's grown up thinking, 195 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:56,936 potentially, you know, um if I don't work and I don't play and I don't play well and win cups and things like that, my family suffers as a result. 196 00:15:57,456 --> 00:16:02,227 Yeah, so there's that pressure which seems to be motivation for him. 197 00:16:02,227 --> 00:16:10,491 Like you'll notice that a lot of like the sports commentators when they're watching matches will be like, oh, Ilya always comes out and plays his strongest after he's 198 00:16:10,491 --> 00:16:22,656 suffered like through some sort of event like his father having to attend that party and the pressure being put on him, the losing the sort of the Olympics and things like that 199 00:16:22,656 --> 00:16:23,838 there, he just comes out. 200 00:16:23,838 --> 00:16:34,063 that much stronger as a result of it so that pressure you must feel must be like the motivation that pushes him to drive that puts him on and obviously it's going to be very 201 00:16:34,063 --> 00:16:45,768 interesting now to see what happens knowing that Ilya Suavar is quite sick like what will happen when that pressure is gone like what will motivate him then will he still even want 202 00:16:45,768 --> 00:16:49,143 to play hockey how is his life going to change after that point 203 00:16:49,143 --> 00:16:56,520 So yeah, it opens up this wider discussion around his character and sort of what will be motivating him in the future. 204 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,712 Ideally as fans, we want to thank Shane. 205 00:16:58,712 --> 00:17:00,584 So we'll see what happens. 206 00:17:00,822 --> 00:17:01,683 Yeah. 207 00:17:01,683 --> 00:17:09,260 And even thinking about sort of like, when you sort of grow up, I'm thinking psychologically, because we both come from a psychological background in a way, you know, 208 00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:16,677 I'm thinking when you grow up in that type of critical household, you can either rebel against it, or you internalize it. 209 00:17:16,677 --> 00:17:20,541 And at first I was like, Ilya is a rebel, like he comes across as a rebel. 210 00:17:20,541 --> 00:17:26,166 But actually, when I watched this the second and maybe even the third time, I was actually thinking... 211 00:17:26,326 --> 00:17:34,192 He's internalizing a lot of what his father says because in that scene where they're doing the bow tie or whatever, his father talks about sort of like, you're the captain. 212 00:17:34,473 --> 00:17:37,785 And Ilya was talking about like, we just didn't click or something. 213 00:17:37,785 --> 00:17:39,576 It's not about clicking, you're the captain. 214 00:17:39,576 --> 00:17:40,937 Sort of putting that ownership. 215 00:17:40,937 --> 00:17:48,443 And then there's a locker room scene later in the episode where he really riles up the curve of his teammates. 216 00:17:48,443 --> 00:17:53,210 And you know, like in a positive way and like, let's go win this kind of thing, not in a critical way. 217 00:17:53,210 --> 00:17:55,499 And I'm like, he's listening to his father. 218 00:17:55,499 --> 00:17:57,445 He's internalizing this. 219 00:17:57,771 --> 00:17:59,332 Mm-hmm, 100%. 220 00:17:59,332 --> 00:18:07,736 I think a lot of that links back to the fact as well that he is never fully himself in front of literally anybody except for maybe Svetlana. 221 00:18:07,736 --> 00:18:08,858 Svetlana? 222 00:18:08,858 --> 00:18:10,300 I'm never gonna get her name right. 223 00:18:10,300 --> 00:18:14,663 But he's never really himself except around her because she's known since childhood. 224 00:18:14,663 --> 00:18:18,454 That front that he has created for people that... 225 00:18:18,604 --> 00:18:24,308 sort of bad boy persona and the closed off sort of flirt that he has with Shane. 226 00:18:24,308 --> 00:18:28,052 You know, no one else gets to see behind the mask besides really her. 227 00:18:28,052 --> 00:18:39,139 And as a result of that, Ilya is presenting this version of himself to the world, which isn't always very nice and very likable, but it also protects him from anyone poking and 228 00:18:39,139 --> 00:18:41,942 prodding too far into how he's actually feeling about things. 229 00:18:41,942 --> 00:18:45,704 And it's a useful defense mechanism for 230 00:18:46,064 --> 00:18:51,288 getting through your life and getting through that tough situation in terms of his family and his father in particular. 231 00:18:51,288 --> 00:19:02,175 But what happens then when you throw in a romantic interest in the mix that is almost as awkward as you are at expressing their feelings and all of a sudden this becomes a bit of 232 00:19:02,175 --> 00:19:02,665 an issue. 233 00:19:02,665 --> 00:19:11,191 Suddenly that self-defense mechanism is actually starting to turn on you and it's stopping you from actually experiencing things in your life that would bring you happiness and 234 00:19:11,191 --> 00:19:14,199 would bring you satisfaction and joy and 235 00:19:14,199 --> 00:19:27,203 That is going to be a big issue for Ilya, and he is going to have moments if his father's sickness does worsen or if that aspect of the story is carried free then. 236 00:19:27,203 --> 00:19:36,365 The sort cognitive dissonance that he's going to experience then whenever his life is upended with that, when those expectations are gone and he has that opportunity to open up 237 00:19:36,365 --> 00:19:38,176 the chain, will he take it? 238 00:19:38,176 --> 00:19:41,032 Yeah, it leads a lot. 239 00:19:41,032 --> 00:19:47,258 of material basically for obviously Jacob Tierney to work with if he wants to take Ilya in that direction. 240 00:19:47,258 --> 00:19:51,031 But yeah, the psychology behind his character I think is very, very interesting. 241 00:19:51,031 --> 00:19:51,751 Yeah. 242 00:19:51,863 --> 00:20:00,463 Yeah, and even to the point where when you were talking, I had these thoughts in my head, or I'm like, but he's also, you know, putting up these defense mechanisms when he's with 243 00:20:00,463 --> 00:20:04,883 Shane, because often, you know, he makes fun of him. 244 00:20:04,883 --> 00:20:10,003 Sure, we all do, but as in not we all make fun of Shane, but maybe. 245 00:20:11,103 --> 00:20:18,352 But there is that gentle bullying to Ilya's flirting sort of where I'm like. 246 00:20:18,352 --> 00:20:21,547 the pigtails in the playground sort of teasing, yeah. 247 00:20:21,547 --> 00:20:24,750 He flirts like a five-year-old, but we all did. 248 00:20:24,750 --> 00:20:30,575 We all sort of pushed someone that we liked or teased them mercilessly or bullied them. 249 00:20:30,896 --> 00:20:34,018 But that was our way of saying, hey, I like you. 250 00:20:34,259 --> 00:20:37,601 But as you grow older, you're like, mm, that's, that's... 251 00:20:38,883 --> 00:20:41,005 Yeah, but I see where that works for him. 252 00:20:41,005 --> 00:20:47,510 But even when Shane, and I know he says it in a playful way, Shane keeps saying, you're an asshole. 253 00:20:47,591 --> 00:20:48,351 And... 254 00:20:48,639 --> 00:21:00,247 It's said in jest, and obviously you can see it said in jest, but if I'm constantly been told at work that I'm hard, I'm rough, I'm, you know, and then also when I'm trying to be 255 00:21:00,247 --> 00:21:06,801 vulnerable with people, I'm an asshole, like, that just reinforces what everyone is saying to you. 256 00:21:07,537 --> 00:21:08,869 Yeah, exactly. 257 00:21:08,869 --> 00:21:13,843 It's, think he picks up with Shane that he means it in a different way. 258 00:21:13,843 --> 00:21:20,786 It's whereas everyone else is saying it to his face and they're saying it on the ice and they're saying it and interviews things like that there that he has this way and behind 259 00:21:20,786 --> 00:21:21,238 his back. 260 00:21:21,238 --> 00:21:24,800 I think when Shane says it, there's someone behind it. 261 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:31,564 It's, I think that's why he continues to behave like that way towards Shane, even after they've sort of developed their relationship a bit more. 262 00:21:31,564 --> 00:21:32,704 It's because 263 00:21:33,318 --> 00:21:36,670 When Shane says that he is endeared by it. 264 00:21:36,831 --> 00:21:41,214 Like he likes him and he likes that aspect of his personality. 265 00:21:41,214 --> 00:21:46,498 I think Ilya gets a different sort of feeling back whenever Shane is the one saying to him. 266 00:21:46,498 --> 00:21:48,679 And I think that's why he still drags it out of Shane. 267 00:21:48,679 --> 00:21:50,180 He still does that thing. 268 00:21:50,180 --> 00:21:53,063 Obviously it's still part of his defense mechanism. 269 00:21:53,063 --> 00:21:53,323 is. 270 00:21:53,323 --> 00:21:57,226 It's, I'm going to make a joke out of this so that we don't need to look at it too closely. 271 00:21:57,226 --> 00:21:59,025 And yeah. 272 00:21:59,025 --> 00:22:08,237 But I do think there's songs special about that sort of interaction when it happens between him and Shane and I think that will that will sort of go a bit further as well. 273 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:19,410 Yeah, and I wonder if this sort of having to be very hard and very hyper aware of how he's coming across to people also plays a role in how he presents in the bedroom, for example. 274 00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:25,797 So if we take that last hotel scene, in my notes, I'd call it the full Dom Daddy mode. 275 00:22:25,797 --> 00:22:31,654 Because like as I was watching, was like, this is good. 276 00:22:31,654 --> 00:22:35,684 But I wonder if it plays into his very dominant role. 277 00:22:35,684 --> 00:22:43,724 I mean, for me, just even when Shane comes in and you talked about him folding the clothes and putting them and Elias like take it all off kind of thing. 278 00:22:43,724 --> 00:22:46,407 I was like, they don't even have to have sex. 279 00:22:46,407 --> 00:22:49,279 This is the hottest thing in the whole episode. 280 00:22:50,081 --> 00:22:52,002 I I correct myself. 281 00:22:52,002 --> 00:22:58,545 For me, the hottest thing in that whole scene was Elias dragging the chair through the bedroom. 282 00:22:58,545 --> 00:22:59,312 room. 283 00:22:59,312 --> 00:23:04,920 Like I literally, like there was something inside me that fluttered when he did that. 284 00:23:05,430 --> 00:23:08,725 That's one of those like, oh what's about to happen here? 285 00:23:08,966 --> 00:23:13,262 But it was just such a dominance of power there. 286 00:23:13,262 --> 00:23:15,114 And that's always been apparent. 287 00:23:15,114 --> 00:23:16,206 It's always been there. 288 00:23:16,206 --> 00:23:18,198 It's not like this is the first time. 289 00:23:18,974 --> 00:23:24,279 It's definitely something to do with control in this 100 % that whole thing. 290 00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:33,316 At a time when Shane is feeling quite out of control of the relationship and he's, Ilya is sort of stringing him along a little bit. 291 00:23:33,316 --> 00:23:36,749 Their previous interaction, the way in which they left it. 292 00:23:36,749 --> 00:23:44,477 I think back to the apartment at the end of the apartment scene, not the actual scene itself, which had like real moments of tenderness between the two of them. 293 00:23:44,477 --> 00:23:47,778 It's that last kiss before he leaves, which by the way, isn't in the book. 294 00:23:47,778 --> 00:23:50,380 And I'm really glad that Jacob Tierney did it. 295 00:23:50,380 --> 00:23:53,900 That last kiss wasn't heated. 296 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,650 It wasn't this like hungry thing. 297 00:23:56,650 --> 00:23:57,583 It was not like that. 298 00:23:57,583 --> 00:24:02,444 It was sweet and it was tender and it was very intimate. 299 00:24:02,444 --> 00:24:06,485 And I was like, whoa, this is like, they're like a couple in this. 300 00:24:06,985 --> 00:24:10,706 And then he proceeds then to basically disappear on Shane. 301 00:24:10,706 --> 00:24:11,756 So he does. 302 00:24:11,898 --> 00:24:15,061 and basically more or less avoids him for a while. 303 00:24:15,061 --> 00:24:24,097 And then when Shane finally sees him again and it's at the award show and Shane is nearly in tears in the bathroom because he just wants something off him. 304 00:24:24,097 --> 00:24:25,528 He doesn't care what it is. 305 00:24:25,528 --> 00:24:27,969 He just needs Ilya to give him something. 306 00:24:27,969 --> 00:24:36,886 I think this was Ilya's way of trying to reestablish control of the situation because his feelings were getting thrown about the place. 307 00:24:36,958 --> 00:24:40,668 they were and he was not in control of that situation whatsoever. 308 00:24:40,668 --> 00:24:44,773 So I think that moment then in the hotel room was Ilya trying to re-establish that. 309 00:24:44,773 --> 00:24:47,595 I think that's also why he was so cold after it. 310 00:24:47,836 --> 00:24:50,517 He didn't even, you didn't even kiss or we didn't even kiss. 311 00:24:50,517 --> 00:24:55,848 Like that was definitely Ilya trying to re-establish control of the situation I believe. 312 00:24:55,848 --> 00:24:59,313 I think he was believing to himself that it was getting a little out of hand. 313 00:24:59,313 --> 00:25:02,506 This is getting a little too personal, it's getting a little too real. 314 00:25:02,506 --> 00:25:06,378 So I'm going to bring this back for us and that sort of 315 00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:11,010 basically putting a leash on she for lack of a better way of putting it. 316 00:25:11,010 --> 00:25:15,902 is Ilja trying to give himself some sort of illusion of control over the relationship, I think. 317 00:25:16,266 --> 00:25:28,243 Yeah, I totally agree because that and in my notes I've got like this dom-sub sort of type of interaction type of sort of a relationship here happening where you know Shane's asking 318 00:25:28,243 --> 00:25:35,867 him to you know get on his knees and then Ilja's like no you get on your knees or something to that effect and then when he does he's like no I'm not gonna do it this is 319 00:25:35,867 --> 00:25:45,435 where it's going to happen so he's establishing what's going to happen where it's going to happen and what Shane will do when it happens so that power place sort of emerges 320 00:25:45,435 --> 00:25:48,366 even earlier on in that bathroom scene for example. 321 00:25:48,995 --> 00:25:52,397 100 % and then it's carried all the way through then, so the end of the episode. 322 00:25:52,397 --> 00:25:54,678 And I think that's really effective. 323 00:25:54,978 --> 00:25:58,840 Again, it tells you so much about their dynamic as a couple. 324 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,921 Shane is someone who is constantly in need of control of his life. 325 00:26:02,921 --> 00:26:10,804 So he is and everything he does from the way he has to fold his clothes, he has to have his sponsorships in line, his life is so regimented, it's so scheduled. 326 00:26:10,804 --> 00:26:13,905 He needs someone to take the reins. 327 00:26:14,179 --> 00:26:19,802 take them off me, I do it all the time, give me peace, I'm letting you take control and that's that. 328 00:26:19,802 --> 00:26:32,179 And Ilja likes that element as well because Ilja's life is manic, it's all over the place, his family dynamic is crazy, he is dealing with uh drug abusing brother and absolute leech 329 00:26:32,179 --> 00:26:41,477 and his father is really bad with dementia and he has all this pressure put on himself, like he needs to feel a sense of control. 330 00:26:41,477 --> 00:26:45,369 So they're each getting something that they need out of the situation. 331 00:26:45,630 --> 00:26:49,693 The problem is that they're also developing feelings for each other why this is happening. 332 00:26:49,693 --> 00:26:51,434 And this is not part of the deal. 333 00:26:51,434 --> 00:26:52,605 This is not part of the thing. 334 00:26:52,605 --> 00:26:58,720 And it brings out these moments of tenderness between them, which aren't part of that sort of dom sub dynamic. 335 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,232 And that's when it starts to become a bit different. 336 00:27:02,232 --> 00:27:04,253 It becomes something more than that then. 337 00:27:04,773 --> 00:27:06,154 And a bit of self-disclosure here. 338 00:27:06,154 --> 00:27:17,290 As a type A person myself, like there is nothing more attractive than when somebody else will take the reins or somebody makes a decision, like, you know, what to cook for dinner, 339 00:27:17,290 --> 00:27:18,100 for example. 340 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:23,843 Like, I don't want to have to think about everything both at work and then at home, for example. 341 00:27:24,548 --> 00:27:26,739 Yeah, it takes that sort of load off. 342 00:27:26,739 --> 00:27:28,260 It's not something you need to worry about. 343 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:30,422 And so, yeah, it does work for their dynamic. 344 00:27:30,422 --> 00:27:32,933 You really do actually really get into the sex in this one as well. 345 00:27:32,933 --> 00:27:39,108 Like this is whenever they are fully like doing the whole thing and the way in which it was depicted as well. 346 00:27:39,108 --> 00:27:44,973 Now, this caused a little bit of controversy online from someone in particular. 347 00:27:44,973 --> 00:27:48,009 was I think a guy, Jordan Firstman. 348 00:27:48,009 --> 00:27:48,869 He 349 00:27:48,933 --> 00:27:51,213 is another actor. 350 00:27:51,213 --> 00:27:57,053 He works on an art show for Crave that's also sort of gay-centric. 351 00:27:57,693 --> 00:28:08,313 He tweeted out in his infinite wisdom that, oh, the gay sex within Keira Wright where he isn't realistic and this is not how it should be depicted and so on along those lines. 352 00:28:08,613 --> 00:28:13,893 Which to me, I thought was just an insane thing to say. 353 00:28:13,893 --> 00:28:17,633 I thought it was so, I don't know, out of touch. 354 00:28:19,108 --> 00:28:25,152 I'm looking at this as a piece of media, as a piece of film, and it very is artistically done like that. 355 00:28:25,152 --> 00:28:34,577 I really don't remember the part in the notebook where you watched the two main characters get prepped for sex. 356 00:28:34,577 --> 00:28:36,521 I don't really understand that argument. 357 00:28:36,521 --> 00:28:44,408 But he then had to walk it back and there was some PR stunt then forced upon Hudson Williams where he went down and 358 00:28:44,408 --> 00:28:46,970 went to a party with their cast or whatever. 359 00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:50,194 The whole thing was just so ridiculous. 360 00:28:50,194 --> 00:28:54,299 there is that argument of how should gay sex be depicted on the screen. 361 00:28:54,299 --> 00:28:57,083 Me personally, think Hader Reveley has done it quite tastefully. 362 00:28:57,083 --> 00:29:03,750 I've not seen anything I thought to be impossible or that out there or none I haven't seen before. 363 00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:10,667 So yeah, that reaction, especially from someone in relation to that streaming service as well. 364 00:29:10,667 --> 00:29:15,676 coming out and saying it's only got photos but random maybe. 365 00:29:15,975 --> 00:29:22,542 Yeah, I mean, I don't know all the controversy about it, but to me it sounds well, it can be two things, right? 366 00:29:22,542 --> 00:29:30,911 It can be is someone just jealous that another show very similar to theirs, gay centric is getting a lot of publicity. 367 00:29:30,911 --> 00:29:38,038 um Perhaps I know he's I think the show is I love L.A., but I've not watched it myself. 368 00:29:38,099 --> 00:29:38,999 So. 369 00:29:39,692 --> 00:29:42,972 Anything to do with LA at this point, I'm absolutely not interested. 370 00:29:43,392 --> 00:29:45,872 I don't care. 371 00:29:46,112 --> 00:29:48,612 NCIS, Dawn, no, none of it. 372 00:29:48,612 --> 00:29:59,692 I'm just, yeah, it's just such a culture and such a vibe that I'm coming out and saying that and having this sort of view of things is just sort of typical of it. 373 00:29:59,692 --> 00:30:02,972 It just, it just does feel like an LA point of view. 374 00:30:04,192 --> 00:30:05,772 So yeah, it's sort of the show at least. 375 00:30:05,772 --> 00:30:07,472 Yeah, you stay true to this character. 376 00:30:08,233 --> 00:30:09,286 Yeah, and I suppose... 377 00:30:09,286 --> 00:30:13,684 just, I don't really get the argument he was trying to put across. 378 00:30:13,684 --> 00:30:20,315 think it was pearly delivered, pearly vocalized and maybe so many best uh kept himself maybe. 379 00:30:20,479 --> 00:30:23,259 Yeah, and I remember the videos from the event. 380 00:30:23,259 --> 00:30:34,019 was like a gift wrapping event that HBO actually hosted where you had Hudson Williams do some gift wrapping with this other actor from this other show. 381 00:30:34,019 --> 00:30:36,558 I don't know Jordan, whatever his name is. 382 00:30:36,558 --> 00:30:42,099 But this reminds you of a quote that came out soon after and I didn't have context for it. 383 00:30:42,099 --> 00:30:46,359 So it was quite interesting where it was from Jacob Tierney and I'm going to read out the quote. 384 00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:48,739 It said, he said allegedly. 385 00:30:49,831 --> 00:30:51,632 This is not a documentary. 386 00:30:51,632 --> 00:30:53,273 You want to watch them douche? 387 00:30:53,273 --> 00:30:59,117 You want me to include Shane in the bathroom for half an hour with an effing enema? 388 00:30:59,117 --> 00:31:00,498 That's not what we're doing here. 389 00:31:00,498 --> 00:31:02,239 We're skipping that part. 390 00:31:04,521 --> 00:31:08,752 Which, to be fair, I can't argue with that. 391 00:31:08,752 --> 00:31:10,524 It's true, it's 100 % true. 392 00:31:10,524 --> 00:31:14,817 It takes you out of the fantasy of the moment, which is exactly what it is. 393 00:31:14,817 --> 00:31:16,469 This is romance is fiction. 394 00:31:16,469 --> 00:31:20,249 I just don't understand that argument of things. 395 00:31:20,249 --> 00:31:25,242 Listen, you can go watch real depictions of sex if you want. 396 00:31:25,242 --> 00:31:29,049 I'd rather have the story, the plot, and the characters do along with it. 397 00:31:29,428 --> 00:31:33,228 Yeah, just don't really, yeah, I don't really understand that. 398 00:31:33,228 --> 00:31:35,728 I think Jacob Tierney is 100 % right. 399 00:31:35,728 --> 00:31:37,428 Obviously those things are happening in the background. 400 00:31:37,428 --> 00:31:39,148 You don't need to explain everything. 401 00:31:39,488 --> 00:31:41,228 It's not education material. 402 00:31:41,228 --> 00:31:43,328 It's not trying to be a teach you moment. 403 00:31:43,328 --> 00:31:50,628 In fact, their dynamic is really unhealthy actually, and they both should probably not be seeing each other at all. 404 00:31:50,728 --> 00:31:53,788 If we're going to take it as seriously as that. 405 00:31:53,968 --> 00:31:56,318 But yeah, I mean. 406 00:31:56,318 --> 00:32:01,172 This escapism, it's not supposed to be as dead set real life as you want it to be. 407 00:32:01,172 --> 00:32:13,000 Maybe this is going on behind some very lucky hockey players closed door, but as far as we are aware, this is fantasy, it's fiction, it's not meant to be taken so literally. 408 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,663 And the depictions of gay sex in the show are realistic. 409 00:32:18,663 --> 00:32:21,853 So they are, they're not doing anything that anyone 410 00:32:21,853 --> 00:32:24,319 who K-Sex 4 wouldn't be familiar with. 411 00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:27,865 So yeah, I just think it was a misplaced argument, really. 412 00:32:28,032 --> 00:32:35,732 Yeah, and I'm reminded of the show Looking with Jonathan, ah, I've his last name. 413 00:32:35,732 --> 00:32:37,292 I don't know if you've ever seen Looking. 414 00:32:37,292 --> 00:32:39,412 It was a TV show, that's it. 415 00:32:39,412 --> 00:32:45,472 It ran for like two seasons and a movie or something, but there is a scene there where they have a douching scene. 416 00:32:45,472 --> 00:32:49,992 And at the time, came out a long time ago, I was like, oh, this is different, this is new. 417 00:32:49,992 --> 00:32:56,292 So if he's looking for something like that, go watch Looking from like five or 10 years ago. 418 00:32:57,677 --> 00:32:58,673 If you want. 419 00:32:58,673 --> 00:33:05,589 you said, anyone who's any male, I suppose, who's had gay sex knows that what they do is pretty dead on. 420 00:33:05,589 --> 00:33:09,962 Like there's nothing in there that none of us have ever tried or done. 421 00:33:09,992 --> 00:33:10,593 Do you know? 422 00:33:10,593 --> 00:33:21,513 I mean, if they're looking for something more realistic, this isn't the show to be depicting that because it breaks the rhythm of the cadence of the episode. 423 00:33:21,513 --> 00:33:24,761 I don't want halfway through 424 00:33:24,761 --> 00:33:28,537 you know, an episode for Shane to stop and go to the bathroom with a bulb in his hand. 425 00:33:28,537 --> 00:33:30,614 Like, I don't need that. 426 00:33:31,572 --> 00:33:36,648 It's not really necessary to the romance story that you're trying to tell. 427 00:33:36,648 --> 00:33:38,710 It takes you out of the moment a little bit. 428 00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:43,637 uh yeah, I'm not surprised Jacob Tierney decided to focus on something different for the show. 429 00:33:43,637 --> 00:33:44,949 After all, he's making entertainment. 430 00:33:44,949 --> 00:33:47,622 He's not making a documentary, like you said. 431 00:33:47,622 --> 00:33:49,585 yeah, it's, yeah, God. 432 00:33:49,585 --> 00:33:50,992 uh 433 00:33:50,992 --> 00:34:00,572 at the first episode for example and they're giving each other a blowjob, like no one in their actual reality is ejaculating that quickly from a blowjob. 434 00:34:00,572 --> 00:34:01,703 Let's be real. 435 00:34:01,703 --> 00:34:03,045 It took about 10 seconds. 436 00:34:03,045 --> 00:34:08,971 But then I'm not expecting them to show me 10 minutes worth of a blowjob because that's not realistic. 437 00:34:08,971 --> 00:34:13,235 When you have like a 60 minute show or a 45 minute show, I don't need that to happen. 438 00:34:13,473 --> 00:34:14,633 Exactly. 439 00:34:16,173 --> 00:34:17,893 The less is better. 440 00:34:17,893 --> 00:34:21,993 Less is more when it comes to sex scenes especially and shows. 441 00:34:23,193 --> 00:34:25,873 use it has meaning, it has purpose. 442 00:34:25,873 --> 00:34:31,233 I actually say this whenever I'm talking about my reviews as well for MM romance books. 443 00:34:31,533 --> 00:34:35,273 Obviously a big draw of MM romance is that there are spicy elements of it. 444 00:34:35,533 --> 00:34:37,373 There's smut in it. 445 00:34:37,685 --> 00:34:45,430 That's a big drive for people and it can be a very entertaining part of the story, but I always tell people to exercise caution, use it sparingly. 446 00:34:45,430 --> 00:34:57,839 You will have people reviewing books saying that I was skipping over the romance scenes, I was skipping over the sex scenes because it's so saturated and it's so unnecessary. 447 00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:00,641 Basically, it needs to serve a purpose. 448 00:35:00,641 --> 00:35:03,783 Are you developing their relationship further by showing these moments? 449 00:35:03,783 --> 00:35:05,869 What is the purpose of having it in here? 450 00:35:05,869 --> 00:35:10,531 Obviously for Shane and Ilya, they're having it in here because it shows a development in their relationship. 451 00:35:10,531 --> 00:35:17,315 It shows Shane becoming more vulnerable to Ilya and it also shows that closeness beginning to develop as well. 452 00:35:17,315 --> 00:35:19,886 The way they have sex is not impersonal. 453 00:35:19,886 --> 00:35:20,816 Ilya takes his time. 454 00:35:20,816 --> 00:35:23,357 He constantly asks Shane, are you okay? 455 00:35:23,357 --> 00:35:31,806 There's characterization in that Ilya, this person who up to this point is an asshole and has been behaving in that way towards Shane for ages. 456 00:35:31,806 --> 00:35:34,537 which is part of his personality, but there's that tenderness as well. 457 00:35:34,537 --> 00:35:35,057 He cares. 458 00:35:35,057 --> 00:35:36,708 He wants Shane to be comfortable. 459 00:35:36,708 --> 00:35:41,360 He wants him to have a good time and he's not selfish in that sense. 460 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,141 So whenever you then get him towards the end of the episode, do you actually behave that way? 461 00:35:45,141 --> 00:35:46,111 We know it's false. 462 00:35:46,111 --> 00:35:47,222 We know it's wrong. 463 00:35:47,222 --> 00:35:54,204 We know it's not how he truly behaves and how he truly is because we've seen the real version of him before he freaked out and tried to cover it all up. 464 00:35:54,204 --> 00:35:58,836 So yeah, it serves a purpose and that is true in any TV show. 465 00:35:58,836 --> 00:36:01,555 So sex for sex 's sake 466 00:36:01,555 --> 00:36:04,238 doesn't work whenever you're trying to tell stories like this. 467 00:36:04,238 --> 00:36:13,729 matters whenever you include it and it matters how long it's shot and what it coincides and what it proceeds so that everything flows correctly and it tells a story. 468 00:36:13,729 --> 00:36:16,161 That is the whole point of having sex scenes in books. 469 00:36:16,161 --> 00:36:18,554 It's not just for the satisfaction of the audience. 470 00:36:18,554 --> 00:36:19,975 It has to have purpose. 471 00:36:20,155 --> 00:36:25,007 Yeah, and I really like that you picked up on the fact that Ilya keeps asking Shane, is this okay? 472 00:36:25,007 --> 00:36:30,080 Because for me, what came across was he's continually asking for consent. 473 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:36,382 And that was so important for me to hear because that's not always depicted. 474 00:36:36,382 --> 00:36:39,725 So yes, are you looking for, you know, realism? 475 00:36:39,725 --> 00:36:41,166 That's real. 476 00:36:41,166 --> 00:36:43,827 Asking for consent is real, actually. 477 00:36:44,211 --> 00:36:45,431 Checking in your partner. 478 00:36:45,431 --> 00:36:46,891 It's his first time as well. 479 00:36:46,891 --> 00:36:53,771 It's important that Ilya is asking the questions and it shows that he actually is caring. 480 00:36:53,771 --> 00:36:55,431 He cares about Shane. 481 00:36:55,431 --> 00:36:59,751 He cares how he feeds and if he's having a good time and if he's still wanting this. 482 00:36:59,871 --> 00:37:03,031 And that's very, very important for his characterization. 483 00:37:03,427 --> 00:37:07,190 And also, mean, who's taking nine inches their first time because that's intense. 484 00:37:07,380 --> 00:37:08,861 That's not happening. 485 00:37:11,447 --> 00:37:12,679 There's your fantasy. 486 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:14,762 If you want to complain about something, complain about that. 487 00:37:14,962 --> 00:37:25,404 So my question to you then is that level of purity and that level of sort of purity culture, like when it comes to sex scenes, is that different for when you have a 488 00:37:25,404 --> 00:37:31,130 heterosexual sort of sex scene versus a gay or lesbian sex scene? 489 00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:32,902 Does that differ at all? 490 00:37:35,758 --> 00:37:37,069 think yes. 491 00:37:37,069 --> 00:37:44,333 Honestly, there's more pressure for realism with gay and queer depictions of sex for some reason. 492 00:37:44,333 --> 00:37:50,697 I think because it's been so sparingly done in the past, now that when people see it, they want to see it as realistically as possible. 493 00:37:50,697 --> 00:38:03,732 mean, no one ever called out all the reams and reams and reams of movies and TV shows that are all centered around straight romances where the characters end up having sex and 494 00:38:03,732 --> 00:38:11,861 They're having sex in lakes and muddy water and, you know, not sharing after being in certain places and continue having sex and all this stuff. 495 00:38:11,861 --> 00:38:16,695 And no one ever went and sat down and went, my God, that's so unrealistic. 496 00:38:16,695 --> 00:38:20,218 I can't believe this here because it's implied that it's not real. 497 00:38:20,218 --> 00:38:21,729 So it's not, it's, it's a romance. 498 00:38:21,729 --> 00:38:23,210 It's, it's Jordan Sparks. 499 00:38:23,210 --> 00:38:26,268 It's, it's not, it's not real life. 500 00:38:26,268 --> 00:38:35,852 And it's nice to have that sense of longing and the idea of romance, know, the song they aspire to, even if you get little glimpses of it in your own relationships, it's just 501 00:38:35,852 --> 00:38:37,949 something to give yourself a little, a little boost. 502 00:38:37,949 --> 00:38:49,899 But no one finds that they're going to have a relationship as that extreme, that intense or that's, you know, overly, you know, airbrushed or anything like that. 503 00:38:49,899 --> 00:38:53,378 So then when it comes to gay sex scenes, all of sudden it's 504 00:38:53,378 --> 00:39:00,538 This needs to be as real as possible because otherwise it's going to be accused of being porn or something like that there and it's not going to sell. 505 00:39:00,538 --> 00:39:03,838 We can't sell that to the audience because that's money. 506 00:39:03,838 --> 00:39:05,778 No one's going to watch two men have sex. 507 00:39:06,238 --> 00:39:15,498 Which apparently was also an argument that Jacob Tierney had to fight as well with the producers of the show, with certain studios that they were trying to market it to. 508 00:39:15,498 --> 00:39:20,138 Oh, cut down on the sex scenes, cut down on the nudity, cut down on all that stuff. 509 00:39:20,218 --> 00:39:22,638 And he fought to say no. 510 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,361 this is how I'm doing it. 511 00:39:24,361 --> 00:39:26,132 It doesn't work otherwise. 512 00:39:26,132 --> 00:39:30,275 And you can either pick up the show with this on it or don't pick it up at all. 513 00:39:30,275 --> 00:39:32,337 And he was right. 514 00:39:32,337 --> 00:39:37,250 Like he knew what he was talking about because he's been in the industry for a while. 515 00:39:37,250 --> 00:39:41,453 He knows what works in his story and he is an effective storyteller. 516 00:39:41,453 --> 00:39:46,227 He knows when this stuff is important and when it should be used. 517 00:39:46,227 --> 00:39:50,530 But yeah, I do think that there is a certain purity culture around it as well. 518 00:39:50,530 --> 00:39:50,966 Like 519 00:39:50,966 --> 00:39:58,254 There is the whole argument as Rachel Reed is not a gay man, but this is a gay love story between two men. 520 00:39:58,254 --> 00:40:05,139 And there is this certain element of the internet that wants it to be like exclusively just gay men that watches this. 521 00:40:05,379 --> 00:40:10,683 So is, I want only gay men watching it, writing it, making it, any of that, watching the whole thing. 522 00:40:10,683 --> 00:40:11,884 That's it. 523 00:40:11,884 --> 00:40:13,325 I don't get that argument. 524 00:40:13,325 --> 00:40:14,726 Honestly, it's... 525 00:40:15,503 --> 00:40:19,018 People would rather turn someone into an enemy than an ally. 526 00:40:19,018 --> 00:40:21,420 And that is very much the argument here. 527 00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:25,404 Like lot of the show's viewership is straight women. 528 00:40:26,686 --> 00:40:28,367 I'm glad they're enjoying it. 529 00:40:28,609 --> 00:40:28,999 Yeah. 530 00:40:28,999 --> 00:40:37,754 So there is that element of, yeah, the internet that just wants to exclude these people, even though they're the ones that made it popular. 531 00:40:37,754 --> 00:40:39,429 It was written by a woman. 532 00:40:39,429 --> 00:40:48,940 it wouldn't exist without them, without their support, without their viewership, without them actually believing in this form of love and these love stories. 533 00:40:48,940 --> 00:40:53,602 And people were so obsessed with the idea that you're going to be taken advantage of that they can't see. 534 00:40:53,602 --> 00:40:55,084 the support for what it is. 535 00:40:55,084 --> 00:40:56,366 And that's a little sad. 536 00:40:56,366 --> 00:41:02,270 But I also think it creates this really toxic discourse online where people are constantly trying to put each other against one another. 537 00:41:02,270 --> 00:41:07,423 And I find that experience to be almost uniquely American. 538 00:41:07,423 --> 00:41:15,728 I do think elements of it now have come over to the UK, to Ireland and a lot of sort of European countries as well. 539 00:41:15,728 --> 00:41:19,255 It's definitely being, it's being shipped over 100%. 540 00:41:19,255 --> 00:41:24,575 But this purity culture of it absolutely has to be this thing and it has to be as perfect as you can imagine. 541 00:41:24,575 --> 00:41:33,935 And it must be for this audience and it must be written by these people and it must have these representations and all these are elements that are absolute musts and anything less 542 00:41:33,935 --> 00:41:36,375 than that means that it's completely unwatchable. 543 00:41:36,375 --> 00:41:38,055 And that is not real life. 544 00:41:38,055 --> 00:41:39,435 That's not how life works. 545 00:41:39,435 --> 00:41:48,135 And I think that element really need to take a step back and see what you're getting out of this project and just enjoy it for what it is. 546 00:41:48,695 --> 00:41:49,236 And 547 00:41:49,236 --> 00:41:51,623 Yeah, that's just my general thought on that. 548 00:41:51,623 --> 00:41:56,796 It's just, it's so very odd and it's so very internet and yeah. 549 00:41:57,686 --> 00:42:05,496 Yeah, and I know we've had lots of conversations about sort of should women be writing these gay love stories, should women be writing gay smut. 550 00:42:05,496 --> 00:42:07,558 And I know where we stand on that. 551 00:42:07,558 --> 00:42:11,303 And to me, it's almost like, yes, representation does matter. 552 00:42:11,303 --> 00:42:14,027 I want to see gay men write gay books. 553 00:42:14,027 --> 00:42:16,209 Write the books, I will read them. 554 00:42:16,535 --> 00:42:17,875 The co-ed I like them. 555 00:42:17,875 --> 00:42:18,797 This is the thing. 556 00:42:18,797 --> 00:42:20,798 Like nothing is stopping you from writing. 557 00:42:20,798 --> 00:42:21,879 There are no roadblocks. 558 00:42:21,879 --> 00:42:26,041 You write your story, you submit it to a publisher, the publisher accepts it or not if it's a good story. 559 00:42:26,041 --> 00:42:30,262 I don't believe that they're going to discriminate about you. 560 00:42:30,323 --> 00:42:40,198 No, never say never, but the idea of a publishing company willing to publish a gay romance book about two men turning away a gay author 561 00:42:40,198 --> 00:42:43,441 That doesn't make sense to me. 562 00:42:43,441 --> 00:42:52,818 So if we're establishing that there is no real sort of societal blocks in terms of this part, then just write it. 563 00:42:52,818 --> 00:42:54,430 Just write these stories yourself. 564 00:42:54,430 --> 00:43:00,705 If you want to see more MN romances from Gay Man, then start writing, guys. 565 00:43:00,705 --> 00:43:01,937 Like, non-stopping you. 566 00:43:01,937 --> 00:43:03,702 My blessing, go right ahead. 567 00:43:03,702 --> 00:43:10,618 Maybe you could put out a really authentic version of whatever you've seen before or you think you can do it better, then do it. 568 00:43:10,764 --> 00:43:14,786 or even as a consumer, then start buying those books because those books exist out there. 569 00:43:14,786 --> 00:43:15,858 I've seen them. 570 00:43:15,858 --> 00:43:17,340 I've seen them on TikTok. 571 00:43:17,340 --> 00:43:19,281 But maybe that people aren't just buying them. 572 00:43:19,281 --> 00:43:22,994 So buy those books exclusively if that's something that you want to support. 573 00:43:22,994 --> 00:43:29,709 Because for me, it brings in this argument about whether straight actors should be playing gay roles or vice versa. 574 00:43:29,730 --> 00:43:36,065 And for me, there was this narrative when Brokeback Mountain came out, I think, early 2000s, late 90s. 575 00:43:36,065 --> 00:43:38,723 I really can't remember exactly, maybe 2005. 576 00:43:38,723 --> 00:43:42,742 about how brave Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal were. 577 00:43:42,742 --> 00:43:47,103 And I sat back and I'm like, and at first I was like, oh yeah, they're really brave. 578 00:43:47,283 --> 00:43:54,363 They're depicting these gay characters and that movie as well is quite explicit for that time as well. 579 00:43:54,363 --> 00:43:56,063 It was quite groundbreaking. 580 00:43:56,303 --> 00:44:00,023 And after a while, as I've gotten older, I'm like, that's not brave. 581 00:44:00,023 --> 00:44:06,703 What narrative is the media feeding us for a straight actor to have to be brave in order to play a gay character? 582 00:44:06,703 --> 00:44:07,924 Like to me, I... 583 00:44:07,924 --> 00:44:20,769 I have no issue whether a gay character is played by a gay person in their personal life or a straight person because we all saw what happened with Kit Conner from Heartstopper 584 00:44:20,769 --> 00:44:24,170 and he was really pushed to be out of their bisexual. 585 00:44:24,170 --> 00:44:26,811 As an 18 year old, did it really matter? 586 00:44:26,811 --> 00:44:28,972 No, it doesn't matter going forward. 587 00:44:28,972 --> 00:44:30,515 And I think there's a little, 588 00:44:30,515 --> 00:44:31,501 the character, 589 00:44:31,501 --> 00:44:37,790 Exactly, and there's a little bit of a narrative happening around Conor Story and Hudson Williams about their personal life. 590 00:44:37,790 --> 00:44:39,934 And it's like the internet needs to drop this. 591 00:44:39,934 --> 00:44:42,046 It does not matter. 592 00:44:42,661 --> 00:44:44,932 It's people don't like to hear this. 593 00:44:44,932 --> 00:44:46,592 It's none of your business. 594 00:44:46,592 --> 00:44:54,135 It really isn't any of your business that you are there to enjoy the content they put out as in the show, as in the elements of that. 595 00:44:54,135 --> 00:44:56,136 The actors will do their tour. 596 00:44:56,136 --> 00:44:59,438 They'll talk about the show and they'll give those elements and those details out. 597 00:44:59,438 --> 00:45:02,099 Beyond that, it's none of your business. 598 00:45:02,099 --> 00:45:03,079 It really isn't. 599 00:45:03,079 --> 00:45:06,690 And this is this is the sort of parasocial relationship that people have now. 600 00:45:06,690 --> 00:45:08,556 And it's gotten so much worse as 601 00:45:08,556 --> 00:45:10,007 sort of online spirits grown. 602 00:45:10,007 --> 00:45:17,361 This is where you have these obsessive fans, like the whole Ariana Grande situation as well where she was like grabbed by a fan out of nowhere. 603 00:45:17,361 --> 00:45:20,284 Like just to make it clear, you do not know these people. 604 00:45:20,284 --> 00:45:21,924 They are not your friends. 605 00:45:21,925 --> 00:45:26,887 The personalities that you see them put out into the internet are only a small aspect of who they actually are. 606 00:45:26,887 --> 00:45:34,923 You do not know them and therefore you have no entitlement to know certain details about their lives if they don't choose to release it. 607 00:45:35,147 --> 00:45:38,040 And obviously these guys don't want to do that. 608 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,061 So really it's none of your business. 609 00:45:40,081 --> 00:45:40,822 Mind your own. 610 00:45:40,822 --> 00:45:41,463 Basically. 611 00:45:41,463 --> 00:45:43,526 It should in no way take away from the show. 612 00:45:43,526 --> 00:45:48,630 You know, I have absolutely no issue with a straight man or woman playing gay characters. 613 00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:54,815 And the reason why is, can you imagine if a gay actor was not allowed to play a straight character? 614 00:45:55,336 --> 00:45:56,096 It would be mayhem. 615 00:45:56,096 --> 00:45:57,357 There'd be a witch hunt. 616 00:45:57,357 --> 00:45:58,291 It would be. 617 00:45:58,291 --> 00:45:59,632 an absolute nightmare. 618 00:45:59,632 --> 00:46:01,733 So you cannot have it both ways. 619 00:46:01,733 --> 00:46:03,252 You cannot have your cake and eat it. 620 00:46:03,252 --> 00:46:14,369 And as long as they are doing justice to the character, to the story, to the elements of the story that are centered around the sexuality of the characters, I don't really care 621 00:46:14,369 --> 00:46:18,242 who plays it as long as they do it justice and they do it properly. 622 00:46:18,242 --> 00:46:19,683 That's what acting is. 623 00:46:19,683 --> 00:46:26,455 Acting is portraying a role and a character in the best way that you possibly can so that the audience buys into the realism of them. 624 00:46:26,455 --> 00:46:32,358 that believe that they can exist and that they're a real person and that you can get invested emotionally in their story. 625 00:46:32,358 --> 00:46:37,982 I don't need the character necessarily be played by a gay actor for that to be true. 626 00:46:37,982 --> 00:46:43,428 But apparently some people do and if that's the case don't watch it if it's such a problem. 627 00:46:43,428 --> 00:46:45,429 yeah, yeah, I 100 % agree. 628 00:46:45,429 --> 00:46:54,594 And I think, you know, I think what I'm getting is that, you know, the actor has a job, can they do their job effectively at convincing me of this story of this character? 629 00:46:54,594 --> 00:46:56,185 If they can, then great. 630 00:46:56,185 --> 00:46:59,436 I don't care what they do in their personal life, personally. 631 00:46:59,436 --> 00:47:09,712 I can, and I'm already picking up on this really parasocial dynamic, even within the heated rivalry sort of content that is coming to my For You page, my Instagram page, for 632 00:47:09,712 --> 00:47:10,343 example. 633 00:47:10,343 --> 00:47:15,358 And as a showrunner and a creator, Jacob Dernie is a gay man himself. 634 00:47:15,358 --> 00:47:17,399 He knows what gay sex looks like. 635 00:47:17,399 --> 00:47:19,601 He knows what gay romance looks like. 636 00:47:19,601 --> 00:47:22,384 But also he's worked on other shows before. 637 00:47:22,384 --> 00:47:33,533 So what he's bringing in is that experience of running a show and, you know, actually how a show can be constructed from its inception from Rachel Reed's book to the screen. 638 00:47:33,533 --> 00:47:36,015 And that's what you talking about before is 639 00:47:36,015 --> 00:47:39,531 is you need that experience of somebody who can do that well. 640 00:47:40,124 --> 00:47:45,528 And he is bringing that experience to the project and that experience has led him to hire these actors. 641 00:47:45,528 --> 00:47:48,299 And they've done a phenomenal job. 642 00:47:48,299 --> 00:47:50,050 They are right out of the book. 643 00:47:50,050 --> 00:47:55,114 Like you picked them right out and they're more three dimensional now than they even were back then. 644 00:47:55,114 --> 00:48:02,478 so regardless of, you know, Hudson and Connor's sexuality, they did an amazing job. 645 00:48:02,478 --> 00:48:03,619 They're amazing actors. 646 00:48:03,619 --> 00:48:07,581 The chemistry on the screen is just absolute fire. 647 00:48:08,013 --> 00:48:16,871 Like, I don't know what else more you want from them, unless you want them to declare their undying love for each other, which they are more or less doing anyway, but in terms 648 00:48:16,871 --> 00:48:18,083 of like a romantic sense. 649 00:48:18,083 --> 00:48:19,728 Like, is that what you want? 650 00:48:19,728 --> 00:48:20,829 Like, is that what you need? 651 00:48:20,829 --> 00:48:27,270 You absolutely need to know that these characters are together in real life when they're not actual characters, they're people with lives. 652 00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:30,433 It's people need to chill out. 653 00:48:30,743 --> 00:48:33,608 It's episode two, chill the fuck out. 654 00:48:33,690 --> 00:48:35,280 I know, like calm down. 655 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,811 it's not, yes, it's amazing, but like a chill pill, it's all right. 656 00:48:38,811 --> 00:48:42,822 Like you don't need to be so invested in their real life relationship. 657 00:48:42,982 --> 00:48:49,824 I think the thing I can appreciate is that the two of the actors do seem to genuinely quite love each other. 658 00:48:49,824 --> 00:48:52,145 They get on really well. 659 00:48:52,145 --> 00:48:58,843 They have a really nice friendship and they're very comfortable around one another, which, you know, always assuages that part of my mind. 660 00:48:58,843 --> 00:49:01,597 I'm like, Oh, this wasn't really awkward for them to follow. 661 00:49:02,019 --> 00:49:06,124 Just seeing how close they are and that sort of dynamic between the two is nice to see. 662 00:49:06,124 --> 00:49:12,371 And it makes you enjoy it more because you like them as people so you want the show to be successful and that's enough for me. 663 00:49:12,371 --> 00:49:17,376 I don't really need to know the intimate details of the rest of their lives. 664 00:49:17,376 --> 00:49:18,197 I really don't. 665 00:49:18,197 --> 00:49:22,400 I have my own life and my own friends and my own relationships to deal with in the real world. 666 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,719 I don't need to be obsessing over these actor lives on top of that. 667 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:33,052 Which isn't a bad thing if people are because I'm getting very consumed by it from social media and it is occupying a lot of my thought. 668 00:49:33,052 --> 00:49:36,894 I mean, I'm writing notes when I'm watching the episodes, we're recording this, for example. 669 00:49:36,894 --> 00:49:41,075 So it's occupying more than, you know, the average person per se. 670 00:49:41,075 --> 00:49:50,640 But I want to come back to the episode and I want to, I really like this segment because as I'm writing my notes, I'm writing the memorable lines that stick out to me. 671 00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:54,621 I wanted to ask you if there were any memorable lines. 672 00:49:54,637 --> 00:49:56,512 that sort of stuck with you. 673 00:49:57,481 --> 00:49:59,182 has to be that last line. 674 00:49:59,303 --> 00:50:00,704 We didn't even kiss. 675 00:50:01,265 --> 00:50:02,645 That's not in the book. 676 00:50:03,367 --> 00:50:05,969 And it's yeah, that's not in the book. 677 00:50:05,969 --> 00:50:10,554 I don't remember being in the book because it would stick out to me otherwise. 678 00:50:10,554 --> 00:50:12,175 is. 679 00:50:12,175 --> 00:50:14,277 Oh, it's devastating. 680 00:50:14,578 --> 00:50:17,540 It's so devastating because. 681 00:50:20,072 --> 00:50:23,314 Shane went there looking for something. 682 00:50:23,475 --> 00:50:25,316 He thought it was the sex. 683 00:50:26,398 --> 00:50:27,518 It wasn't. 684 00:50:28,059 --> 00:50:33,063 He got into that elevator then and he realized that he didn't get the one thing he actually came for. 685 00:50:34,185 --> 00:50:39,989 And that is very revealing about where he is right now. 686 00:50:40,190 --> 00:50:43,063 Like he is, he's in too deep already. 687 00:50:43,063 --> 00:50:44,574 He's in way too deep. 688 00:50:44,574 --> 00:50:46,015 Ilya knows he's in way too deep. 689 00:50:46,015 --> 00:50:46,975 And so... 690 00:50:47,366 --> 00:50:49,007 This is why this situation's happened. 691 00:50:49,007 --> 00:50:51,799 This is what's led to that moment. 692 00:50:51,799 --> 00:50:52,649 It's just excellent. 693 00:50:52,649 --> 00:50:54,220 There's so much in that little line. 694 00:50:54,220 --> 00:50:57,573 So there is so much just in what four or five words. 695 00:50:57,573 --> 00:50:58,385 It's perfect. 696 00:50:58,385 --> 00:50:59,446 heartbreaking. 697 00:50:59,446 --> 00:51:04,048 And I have to agree, that was my favorite line, the most memorable line for the moment from the episode. 698 00:51:04,048 --> 00:51:12,652 But there were other lines that came to me when I was watching this that started for me to show there's a very humorous side of this show. 699 00:51:12,652 --> 00:51:15,033 Like, you know, when Ilya says like, Mr. 700 00:51:15,033 --> 00:51:15,993 Businessman, Mr. 701 00:51:15,993 --> 00:51:18,606 Landlord, and they always come from Ilya. 702 00:51:18,606 --> 00:51:23,371 Ilya is far funnier than people think or give him credit for, you know, the whole. 703 00:51:23,371 --> 00:51:24,334 like that 704 00:51:24,334 --> 00:51:29,114 Yeah, the whole, will murder me when he comes to his apartment, when he comes to Shane's apartment. 705 00:51:29,114 --> 00:51:32,054 I was cackling, I was like, do you know what? 706 00:51:32,054 --> 00:51:35,514 Like that looks like the backend of some rinky dinky little aloe. 707 00:51:35,514 --> 00:51:39,534 I would be thinking like, I'm going to lose a kidney right now. 708 00:51:39,994 --> 00:51:46,174 And the one in the locker room that stands out to me is when they're sexting each other essentially. 709 00:51:46,774 --> 00:51:51,830 like another character from Rosenhoff and basically Ilyas is like. 710 00:51:51,830 --> 00:51:55,728 Never in my life have I sort of blessed Russians don't do this. 711 00:51:56,282 --> 00:51:57,482 Russians don't blush. 712 00:51:57,482 --> 00:51:58,222 joke. 713 00:51:58,222 --> 00:52:00,025 Those comedy goals. 714 00:52:00,025 --> 00:52:05,693 I think they need to get Conestory into a comedy after this because his agents are... 715 00:52:05,693 --> 00:52:16,370 of them, honestly, I would happily watch a buddy cop movie with the two of them, but just not playing actor or just not playing roles, just playing themselves and just seeing what 716 00:52:16,370 --> 00:52:17,632 it turns out. 717 00:52:17,797 --> 00:52:25,340 Yeah, so as someone who hasn't read the books, sort of this is definitely built on from episode one. 718 00:52:25,340 --> 00:52:32,283 Yes, we get more sex scenes, which satiates sort of the viewer, definitely, but you also get more complexity. 719 00:52:32,283 --> 00:52:37,655 You get more layers to each of the characters, you know, with Ilya with the family dynamics and his dad. 720 00:52:37,655 --> 00:52:44,728 And then you've got Shane also with family dynamics, but also this undercurrent of perhaps some neurodivergence, perhaps. 721 00:52:44,728 --> 00:52:47,599 um 722 00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:56,376 What I'm looking forward to going forward is how this plays out because they can't keep this dynamic on forever. 723 00:52:56,376 --> 00:52:57,357 Something has to happen. 724 00:52:57,357 --> 00:53:05,223 has to either they come together or there's conflict and they move apart, but something has to happen to forward the storyline. 725 00:53:05,223 --> 00:53:14,009 I'm wondering as someone who's read the books, what the next episode, what episode three looks like for you or what their story looks like for you. 726 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:20,375 So episode three, I already knew what it was going to be about before I even seen title of it. 727 00:53:20,375 --> 00:53:24,308 And the title is Rose and she is the spanner in the works. 728 00:53:24,308 --> 00:53:28,343 She is the catalyst for these two to figure their shit out. 729 00:53:28,343 --> 00:53:34,108 Basically she is a character that's going to come in and Shane and Ilya are going to be quite tired of this dynamic. 730 00:53:34,108 --> 00:53:37,532 Shane in particular, he's going to want something more stable, something 731 00:53:37,532 --> 00:53:39,134 less turbulent. 732 00:53:39,134 --> 00:53:50,658 And maybe it's worth looking back and maybe finding a very nice pretty girlfriend to sort of, I don't know, maybe see if there's other options out there. 733 00:53:51,219 --> 00:53:57,721 And you drop that bomb and that relationship between those two and you see what happens. 734 00:53:58,702 --> 00:54:01,073 Which is exactly what it's going to be like. 735 00:54:01,073 --> 00:54:04,204 Yeah, this the next episode is going to be one of quite a 736 00:54:04,668 --> 00:54:08,868 So well, but I'm also aware that. 737 00:54:10,475 --> 00:54:13,307 they are going to focus on the first book in the next episode instead. 738 00:54:13,307 --> 00:54:22,862 So in terms of Ilya and Shane's story, that's next for them, but there's now this episode that's coming out, which is apparently based on the very first book in the series, which 739 00:54:22,862 --> 00:54:34,995 is a very interesting choice, but a choice I think is very good because there are things that happen in the first book which are very necessary to Ilya and Shane. 740 00:54:35,008 --> 00:54:37,619 for developing their story further. 741 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:38,501 Well, there you go. 742 00:54:38,501 --> 00:54:41,385 You've got a little bit of snippet of what's coming up in episode three. 743 00:54:41,385 --> 00:54:42,947 Go watch episode three. 744 00:54:42,947 --> 00:54:47,873 Thank you so much for listening wherever you're listening from and watching us. 745 00:54:47,873 --> 00:54:51,157 We will be back next week with our breakdown of episode three. 746 00:54:51,157 --> 00:54:56,864 So from the sounds of it, there's going to be a lot more and maybe some some curve balls, which are not expected. 747 00:54:57,365 --> 00:54:57,777 Mm-hmm. 748 00:54:57,777 --> 00:54:59,555 I think it's gonna be a bit of a switch-up, 749 00:55:01,758 --> 00:55:03,320 thank you so much for watching. 750 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:10,289 you like this at all, share it around, leave your comments, let us know what you thought of what was going on. 751 00:55:10,289 --> 00:55:12,632 And yeah, we're excited for the next episode. 752 00:55:12,632 --> 00:55:14,384 So keep an eye out for that and we'll see you then.