[Music]
thank you very much so today is me stefan repin but it's not about me today today it's
about the wonderful guest we have we'll start with the uh with Dan here so Dan um Dan is the
CEO of brandcast health and then will tell us a little bit about himself Dan what do you do
at BR brandcast Health yeah very quickly so I Ron bran cast health we're a medical marketing
and Communications agency based in London and our focus is really content strategy um and
delivery and uh the reason I'm excited to talk about CRM is I think that if we want to build
relevant content that creates trust between industry and healthc Care Professionals then
we need a really good CRM strategy we need to understand the data and we need to understand
how to communicate with our customers in a really relevant way and I think that's where the most
impact is is going to be found so that's a bit about me you're right thank you there next one
is Claudia we met Claudia through Floren the the you know the the black Cardinal here who knows
everyone Claudia tell us about so you you've been with uh boringer before uh what are you doing now
with belly slide Consulting yeah so I after 13 years in Pharma eight in astroica five inbi I
decided to embark on my own journey and uh and I set up this um consultant FCO belly slide uh
which we're going to be with are focusing on uh brand strategy marketing strategy and then
the continuation of it into applying it into you know and experience mapping Omni Channel
um planning but also with a with a capability building support on the pin in that because my
aim is not just to Target big companies but also medium to small companies I'm intending to also
work in lat time if there's any viewers any L time viewers um so yeah so just to do a proper
service to our client and make sure that they are prepared to sustain whatever strategy we set up
together so yeah that's me thank you Claudia and we have the bus here BS flan uh floran is
the SVP Global head of commercial Excellence for um green andal and basically we started this uh
webinar because we actually had a really good chat on our podcast about um generative generative AI
open Ai and um you know all all the stuff AI and I was thinking that um you know Viva is kind of
lagging behind Ai and we in fact we connected a little bit earlier for this webinar and uh well
Florance started complaining what a hard week he had and one part of it was that um you mentioned
that you used analytics with uh well the data you had you used it with generative AI could
could you explain like how did you guys what did you do what results did you have you know
we trying to be practical here let's start with that yeah no no sure with pleasure and
thanks for inviting me and and to to this great group now the the just as a background you know
I started in Pharma quite some time ago and I was guilty to spend $150 million to implement
a Cel infrastructure across a whole company just when we were finish rolling out this $150 million
CRM we destroyed it to replace it by another one and so i' I've got an history of love and with
uh with CRM and uh the the one thing that is fascinating me is we have dumped in CRM across
the industry hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars in Consulting in licenses in Tools in
data and to create executive territory Management Systems by which we know when a rep goes to see
a customer and what he does with the customer but we know nothing actually about the customer
and the last thing we actually do is customer relationship management with the crms we have
and this is highly frustrating and I think you know learning from that and postco going into an
omni Channel world where our customers are what they are they consume content across the web
across social media across everywhere you need all that data aggregated somewhere to be able
to really understand your customers pivot your strategy around the customer and then actually
do CRM but the one thing we realize very rapidly is that without the help of tools like you know
the inin from Salesforce or with some generative AI tools the wealth of data you have to manipulate
to be able to decide if Dr rein wants to have you know an information on safety or efficacy
well you know what it's it's amazing it's it's huge no human being can compute that so that's
why we are really think thinking that adding a layer of AI on top of the existing data sets as
long as they are clean is really the way for one to be able to interact nearly on a onetoone basis
with every single customer in the industry which if I remember well is what we were promised the
first time we implemented a Cel you know so it's a little bit about time you know like 15 years
later with content a little bit then you wanna you want to come up with your uh Insight sure I
mean like I'm totally aligned with all that I mean I think I think there's immense frustration from
many people around you know what the current CRM solution looks like I think from my perspective
as a you know as a as a marketing agency that's working mainly with marketers um and seeing how
they use a CRM and actually what I'm finding in most case I don't know about everybody who's
watching but in the most most cases it's used as effectively a call log for sales reps there's no
there's nothing really more than that um I know that analytics are done so you know get results
and look at like sentiment on on um on screens for like e details and stuff like that which tells you
a few things but it certainly doesn't do anything close to what most crms have been capable of for
a very very long time and you know even you know years years ago we were be able to achieve much
better things with automations and in and stuff that we simply don't do so I I I think that on
the conversation of AI I think the first point is I think people don't understand the capability of
their own crms right now I think that's something that should be an absolute priority is for people
that understand that they whether it's marketers and account managers for example understanding
that there is strategy in designing a CRM so if you know what you need to know about a customer
like you adoption ladder their Persona type their interest their object objections these
should all be clear fields in the CRM that you're strategically putting in place for each brand so
that as that person interacts with even just on a sales rep level they're able to log those
things down and make you know have a clear distinction between different customer types
that the marketing teams or medical Affairs teams can then use in order to solve those Pro problems
or answer those questions on a mass scale so that that's the first thing that I think needs
to be done the second thing is considerations of those automations and actually integrating the CRM
into things Beyond sales for so thinking about the websites like having forms on your webinars that
are connected to your CRM that allows customers to input data that you can then react to and and
create automations from so there's loads of great information about that stuff everywhere
and I would recommend that any marketers people in medical Affairs sales teams go and look at
that just to get a baseline knowledge of it the second hurdle is then it's it's quite complicated
there's so much stuff you can do trying to build those dashboards and out out takes a professional
someone who understands CRM deeply and what we now have with with AI whether it's Einstein like you
mentioned Floren or something like with HubSpot where you've got chat spot like all the crms were
starting to develop these things where instead of spending hours trying to figure out how to build a
dashboard where you can just see who are your who your biggest product promoters and Advocates you
can just ask like via the chat like chat GPT can you build me a dashboard um that shows me these
things can you show me which email subject headers work the best which which sales team converts the
most you know Etc which web pages generate the most leads for our sales team all this kind of
stuff without having to have that knowledge and expertise and training um is pretty incredible
so you could have like you know you wouldn't have to have an amazing knowledge of CRM in
order to build that stuff out but what I do think is critical is knowing the principles of CRM and
inbound marketing in order to personalizing like Florence said to start to build relationships on
an individual basis because if you don't even have that knowledge you don't know what to ask the CRM
to do anyway so for me that's that capability piece is is super important and maybe Claudia
has some comments on excellent marketer here by the way so yeah well excellent to hear all
of that because I'm I'm I don't disagree nor I I think there's a lot of detail to work there I I
I personally also am amazed but you know I've been reading a lot in the last few months in particular
on AI and the potential of ear and it's definitely there right there's all these all these making
the understanding easier making the automating easier and then making the optimization easier
definitely I feel the some of the frustrations of floran and I have observed that as well being kind
of in the middle between sales marketing and and how sometimes the CRM is not utilized to the best
mainly because there are disconnections in what we're trying to achieve and how we use it and and
what data we want to even input or extract out of it and then what do we do with this and sometimes
Fair excuses on both sides you know again is is daunting and people don't necessarily always have
the time to invest in trying to even understand what's coming out of it there one word of cautious
from my side and whoever knows me would say you know I'm I've always been a big champion of this
we need to be very careful on what we talk about when we say understanding and the only thing that
I'm going to say is data does not allow us to understand everything and and floran was saying
right CRM I think the bit that has been missing is a relationship just before we went live we were
talking about this whole Latin American way of building relationships and how it's about actually
very strong very quick personal human connection that human to human thing and I think we just need
to make sure that we don't let AI just lead way and forget that we humans need to keep connecting
with the humans because without that deep understanding that relationship piece would never
really be built it was going to be it's going to be customer management and not necessarily
we're going to build very strong relationship so massive ex you know amplifier definitely um we
just need to make sure that we don't lose sight of what are the right questions we need to ask what
is this deep understanding that we're seeking to have of our customers beyond the behavioral data
points so so you're you're leaning more into Data basically like how are we using data and sort of
the disconnections alignment between marketing and sales and how do we use data and uh Floren
do you wanna do you want to Le with this yeah no I think that that's totally right I I do uh see
that we have in average in the commercial teams in the Pharma industry a lower level in terms of data
and analytics than what we have in the R&D teams for instance um the the level of understanding
of the mats behind is quite lower the appetite to generate and to use data to create insights that
are going to lead to the strategies is also lower in a sense that Pharma has been Rich for quite
some time so Pharma relies on uh market research specialist agencies specialized agencies that do
market research qualitative quantitative whatever you that the marketeer you know kind of drives
then they get the results and then from there they find the shiny piece of stuff that will allow
them to build a campaign and and push a marketing message and shine in uh you know a board meeting
and maybe get an award of the best campaign of the year at the end and then they restart again
and and in all that if you think about it there is nothing around the customer there is nothing
around the data on the customer and what we do for different groups of customers and it's
fascinating to see that this is probably coming from the initial trainings but also from what made
them successful when they were rewarded more for great campaigns and market share increase than for
customer satisfaction and you know deepening the relationship with the customers and that's just
not judging that it's just an observation I think it's you know now that we're are coming into an
omni Channel world where market research for in is very uh um Limited in terms of the visibility and
the insights it can generate we need to use bigger data sets but to be able to use them
smartly the people need to understand how that's done how you collect the data how you create the
data how you collect it how you clean it how you you know govern it and how you use it into
uh building your insights and your strategies and fundamentally again to come back you know to to to
the topic of today this is what CRM is supposed to be made for but we've never used it this
[Music] way yeah never never use it this way although sometimes wonder about the
the possibilities of the the serum and I think um with the introduction of generative AI you will
have way more insights which you know you can you have more more creativity which you know is the
basics of sales and Market if you think about it right um yeah go ahead go ahead so I just yeah I
think like like these are like really good points and my experience as well is this idea of of of
using market research which often is the just the way that that market research is positioned is the
is product first so rather than going backwards and looking at say customer satisfaction like
what's working well what even even from a tactical perspective what is our best way to engage what is
like what is it that's working it's this idea that we have like a new strategic imperatives based on
the competitors in the market everything's built off differentiators so rather than what is the
problem that we solve for the customer it is how do we differentiate our product from our
competitor so what you end up with is this this market research that's built on how people would
respond and react to choice of product rather than understanding what the market problem is
and I think to to Claudia's Point around that you know talking about relationships and and
you know gen will be useful we are we we we are in a kind of dangerous situation I I see people
you know looking at you know quoting things from like Medscape and Viva right and it's like doctors
don't like interacting with Farmer on their own on their channels they just don't like doing it
or like you know Viva will say like digital content you just need to produce more digital
content your Viva eils because it shows that if you have digital content then you get more
conversions like but this is like this data is is is true but like it's completely takes out the
context of the personal interaction or what that content is like surely the real the real impact
is like is that content valuable and so for me it doesn't matter what channel it is like just
because that's how it is now if you're not looking at the customer needs and adding value then they
won't interact on any channel I would I would say that if if farmer produced something on their own
channel and no one wants to interact with it if they produce it on Medscape does it suddenly make
it good content no it's just the same they still don't want to interact so so if we do use gen I
think it's it's important yes it can it can tell us Trends and it can give us information right
now some of that kind of personalized stuff that it might produce you may need you really do need
those people on on the ground to like take the Insight from that and say like well I know this
customer and this isn't like how I would talk to them and it isn't how I would respond to them so
just making sure that we don't lose the creativity and the Insight at strategic level um I think will
be really really key yeah and I would even add to to your point Dan that is is the understanding
and this is and this is a beauty I think of the evolution of the industry the Health Care system
is going to force us into either do that or die because it's it's not only understanding the
human in the past it was yeah let's understand the Deep motivations the challenges the worries
whatever it is that we should have been asking those questions right those fundamental questions
as supposed to do you like this content was it nice uh now is even in context right because
the systems are getting the healthare system is getting more complicated we're not talking
even now a rep right you're talking the whole strategic account team trying to crack that Sy
system and trying to solve those problem so that then the drug can even exist um and and having
that that understanding both at a deep level but equally understanding this network of influences
and whatnot we were not able to do I'm really hoping that AI is going to help us do but we need
to keep asking the right questions and we need to your point yes we do need to have the people
on the ground understanding the customer and the customer in their context so they can feed that as
well into the database because otherwise it's it's a bit of a of a superficial maybe kind of outcomes
we're going to get out of it yeah I mean I would love to see like exactly that I I think some of
the things that I would love to see and I don't know and Floren you you may you guys might be
already starting to implement some of this stuff because I know that you you've been working hard
because because things like you know looking at your levels of adoption and your different
customer groups and actually understanding okay what's where's the biggest commercial impact so
if we if we only need to if we'd be better off spending our resource on this specific
customer group that might expand use of a product rather than this customer Group which might start
using a product being able to say to gen across multiple markets to say like what who are these
customers where can they be activated and what is the message that's been working across different
markets or what's the content that's been working that is moving them from that level of adoption to
the next that sort of insight at scale should be so powerful because you could focus your marketing
spend on that specific customer group in every different country knowing exactly what the key
message should be and the tactic that is going to have the most chance to overcome it and then you
use your people in your strategy and people on the ground to really take that information and
activate it for me there's the power because all that wasted money on tactics that are just
created for the sake of it or falls on deaf ears and nobody's interested like can can be gone all
that there's a huge amount of waste I think and for me that's that that's something that could
be very significant I don't know Floren if that's something that you that's the kind of thing you
guys are looking at at the moment but exactly so ex so that's you have exactly framed the
end picture of where we want to be are we there yet not totally not to be totally transparent
uh because getting there we realize it was far more complicated than what we s initially so yes
we have high level models that tell us if you have a commercial organization structured this
way they through that way this is how much you can generate in sales versus this is how much you can
generate in sales that's uh you know marketing mix model that multitouch libration and stuff
like that those are statistical model that already require quite robust data set good data scientist
and people in the business who understand the maths to be able to work with them so we we are
at that level but then exactly to your point we like okay if we want to go to individual customer
level to make sure we deliver the best possible interaction we need to be able to drill down
into the contents that those people are consuming and the feedback they give us when you open that
Pandora box you find a few things the first thing is I have not found anywhere on this planet and
in any school anywhere in University or whatever someone capable of articulating how you create a
Content strategy how do you define which content with which media you need to create to be able
to satisfy your customer base like overall you know like we got the Cutler of marketing right
that level of thinking theoretical framework on how do you create your content strategy because
that would drive what you need to tag what you need to record as information and all that so how
are we approaching it I mean we do the same you know pivoting uh as physics has done at one point
in time we go experimental so we are tagging what we can we are putting the contents across all the
the channels and then we are going to collect the interactions we are going to collect the customer
satisfaction we are going to start using NBA from Einstein on Salesforce or other system
to push a little bit of content to the customer to see how they they respond to it and that will
give us a first ID of the positive impact we can have there but by doing so one single interaction
between an hcp and a web page can be six to seven to 10 content items that can be the trigger of
something so you imagine the volumetry suddenly of data that you have and again coming back to my
previous point I don't think any human being can process that volume of data and this is exactly
why we will need AI that is able to pass huge volume of data in a very short time to be able
to generate okay you know what this is standing out you for you to find why it is standing out
but at least I tell you this piece of your content is resonating with oncologist that are above 55
and leave below a line that goes from Paris to uh Switzerland and and that's what we need first to
be able to educate ourselves but it's we are not there yet we we expect to be there but I think
it's going to take us at least 12 to 18 months to get to that level awesome I like the content
so the the content uh was like the content was the content strategy right so uh Claudia how would you
do a Content strategy uh oh okay so there is a a LinkedIn user saying Sur a lot of cont strategies
based on trial and error so testing PLS video podcast and infographics across all the channels
is the wi to do it that being said there are okay I'm going to show it to everyone yeah that being
said there are no AI tools to create draft content that needs to need to be quality checked by med
media me medial writer I think media writers is the kind of solutions we are now introducing to
the live Sciences interesting um would you would you see AI helping a lot in producing like better
quality content but I think the problem is not the the content itself you can create content
but if you don't know your customers and God damn it you won't create the best content ever
right corre and we were discussing with Claudia the other day that the fact that although you
have all the generative tools you have in the world right like you have open Ai and so on uh
if you don't know the customers and you have to go through 15 you have to talk to the same person 15
times from legal who says today it's a yes yeah your content going go through tomorrow tomorrow
he says no it's it's not a good deal you this this content is not good enough then you know
AI is is not going to help so I think we have a people's issue here not a not just an AI uh
problem um Claudia would you have a comment on this I well I had actually a question for Floren
because on that on that topic uh if you guys are so Advanced I'm just curious how are you tackling
the whole and and what conversations have you been having on approval process and what not because
it feels like you know yes great we're going to be personalizing everything but we still even if
you power the revieww process pre-review use so whatever you want to put in place at the moment
at least in the UK you have got a human that needs to be at the end of the day signing off
by the way a human that is a freelancer in most instances that their name depends on not having
claims we know the story and and you have that having to approve the final form of the content
so it's called or whichever the the variation of that so I wonder how you guys are what are you
discussing around and how you getting around that that potential for yeah so so so completely right
uh and our thinking is to apply you know the same Med to this process and to power the legal medical
regulatory approval process through AI I mean some companies are already doing it and Jen just to
name them is doing it um yeah and there is a way by which you can make the life of the approvers so
much simpler because most of the content actually that we create is just a rashing of an existing
content let's be honest I mean someone who comes with a new study and new IDs and new graphic and
stuff it happens once in a while overall it's just reing with better wording and stuff like
that or new imagery and things so for all that we can probably divide by 10 the time they need to
review and approve which would help us to produce 10 times more so that that's how to personalize it
and also you know one once they trust the system if the declination between the various version is
just minimal but intended to satisfy a specific audience they can approve in group or stuff like
that so we are we are working on that uh that they were very receptive audience honestly because no
one ever does anything for those guys they have the for of the you know technology Evolution so
they are happy that someone comes to them but yeah it's going to be a challenge we we know
the volumes are going to increase but I would like also to come back on on Stefan Point saying AI may
not help us I'm not sure because one of the the more we manipulate uh the Gen stuff the more we
see that it fine tunes itself to the interactions it has with you which means if I am an hcp and
I'm consuming content through a gen interface the content that will be offered to me in the future
will be more and more ATT tune to what I like seeing yeah the format of the image the lengths
of the video the topics that will be proposed to me even the the the the nov long invented by the
the AI will correspond to what I'm respond it's absolutely fascinating I mean you know the I I I
already I don't know if I told you I already got into um gen through my son because he was playing
with ch gbt all the time you know in school and stuff like that and I was like come on this is not
really work but he did an experiment he his IDE was I want to know if I can depress Chad GPT he
was having a very depressing discussion with Chad GPT and feeding the system only with Lana Del re
lyrics so every Everything the system would say he would just drop copy and paste Lana Del lyrics and
you could see this the structure of the system sentences and the tone going you know downhill
in terms of up and stuff like that and that was really interesting to see the system is kind of
self adjusting to what you expect from it and therefore maybe it can have the patience that
we humans don't have to adjust to every single one customer at least for the all the digital
part so maybe they can they can improve yeah I I would agree with that and I think it's there's a
massive power on on the on the on the tweaking on the into into Florance not to say even the
the you know the the minimizing mistakes or errors or whatever but it's also the tweaking to the tone
to the V to the little variations that perhaps we humans to an extent get tired and then may may end
up repeating even more often I've used that a lot my work um the optimization of time is remarkable
I do I do think though that that essential work of as humans vetting the creativity level the
you know even the essential key messages or what not that come out of our deep understanding still
need to stay there I don't think we need to just leave it to their own devices but
it definitely has got a lot of capacity to help ladies and gentlemen we have a question from the
audience so which is um um how do you see gen AI being used to analyze the data and predict
the next conversation between the rep and CPS also what Integrations do you think will be
critical interesting question right Lauren you want to be the Pioneer so no so uh so
yeah prediction I don't know honestly uh we are not there at that St we have kind of you
know statistical model can we call them radii I don't know uh like they are machine learning
uh model and stuff like that they help us do predictions but it's it's very generic
it's very high level uh can you really use AI today to predict the human reactions and you
can anticipate that this is more likely than this but really predicting is going to be difficult so
predicting the content conversation I mean from all my field experiences uh the conversation can
be driven by the last interaction of an CB with the last patient they met and therefore
could go completely unpredictable that always a challenge for the the the field teams to be
able to re-engage the customer answer their immediate need and then re-engage them on the
topic we wanted to discuss with them so I I don't know maybe maybe one day that would be that that
would be possible I I I would also build on that say I just I just don't think it's necessary at
the moment because I would say before we worry about jna telling us what conversation to have
next first let's worry about understanding how like even having the data captured within the
CRM to even make that assumption ourselves so I would probably say um I'm making assumptions
here and but in MO in many cases most people who who are watching or interested in in in this topic
um will have websites for their brands and most of those websites will not be directly linked to the
CRM or most of the customer interactions when when a customer comes on it won't be tracking
cookies or know who they are so you don't even know what they're looking at on your website and
added to that you probably don't even have that much content on your website so most people will
be focused on more of a brocher based site where it's just the product data if you actually want to
know what the the expert is interested in you also going to have to have some kind of Content Library
where where you've got people engaging on this so it's just again thinking about the strategy
and when we talked about you know is there someone who can build out a Content strategy the the issue
is that there's two different types there's like your kind of business as usual like you need to
consistently attract people into conversations and all the content there needs to be around
your content Niche it needs to be relevant to your product but more relevant to the customers
and not really about your product data and stuff and that's where people will come and they will
learn maybe medical education medical Affairs are usually great at this type of job is like building
interactions webinars um showcasing guidelines publication summaries all that stuff around your
content Niche if you're regularly producing that content people will come to your channels only
then is your CRM relevant because before they come to your channels it's not really that relevant
unless they they've already kind of signed up or subscribed right so at that point if you if you
have a a sales team and they if you've programmed an an Automation in your CRM so that when someone
you who is known to the website via cookies looks at say a white paper on the latest guidelines in
your therapy area that that rep is tagged as their content contact owner or in their territory that
rep should get an email to say Dr um Dr rein has um has just downloaded the white paper on latest
guidelines in whatever um you should probably have a conversation with them about that you don't need
a jna to make that recommendation so I think when we have that volume of content then maybe
it will be good at helping make recommendations or maybe it would just be useful for the rep to
to to type into the CRM rather than look at it and look at their alerts just type
in who's interactive with content on on any of our websites so just prioritizing their list of
customers to engage with therefore increasing the chance of interaction so for me it's like
that content Journey building that into the CRM and understanding those critical interactions and
having alerts to tell people what they should what they should be maybe communicating next
would probably be probably be more relevant than you know if you've only got 12 V approved emails
that you're allowed to send why do you need an AI to recommend to which one you know Ian it's just
it I think it's just I think it would be will be super helpful when we get to the point of being
able to have enough content and manage enough content so maybe the first thing is for the AI to
help us develop and manage that level of content before we need to use it to recommend where to go
I think where it would be even more useful I know there's some companies I I don't know much about
this it's probably beyond my field of expertise but where where we're able to provide data on
like where customers are interacting across many different channels and um get insights into what
papers they're reading and stuff like that and the AIA can then maybe recommend what type of
content marketing you should produce to attract them that's more interesting to me because that's
yeah that that would be pretty cool from a from a marketing perspective as well as well like being
able to know what should we produce next based on what are people interacting with outside of
outside of our sphere of influence that would also be pretty cool yeah that's typically the
difference you have between how people use Viva and how people use Salesforce like in Salesforce
we got all those information we we can segment the customer in the customer data platform on
250 Dimensions so it's easier to be able to get to that level where on Viva people have focused
on next best action for uh so I we did that back in Astra zenica in 2015 in Japan it worked the
Reps liked it when it was just you know you go to that hospital and there's a doctor you've not seen
yeah you should drop a meeting in the calendar and then you should try to see him because the
rep could understand it so they liked it but it didn't go you know really beyond that that was a
nice helping tool and nothing more nothing more than that absolutely but you know the
the the one thing you know to come back to what you were saying and what clodia was building on
in terms of capabilities we have in the us alone around 150,000 sales rep in the Pharma industry
every single one of those reps make around eight calls a day right let's say eight calls a day so
over a year we have about 2 120 to 240 million interactions with customer where we could ask
a question record information in a system and use that to enrich the net customer experience
imagine the power of that but it's not built in the DNA of our marketeers to use such data
set and sear tools because no one to to clodia point has ever trained them on that and told
them this is now available for you in the same way that very very few of them scan social media
to understand what is actually happening in the real world and they use the flag of you know uh
risk of you know bad usage of the drug as okay we shouldn't look at that they they are like doing
the ostr you know the and understand ignoring the world outside and and I think that's where
we can help those people uh become better they do it in fmcg there is no reason why we shouldn't be
doing it in healthare yeah 100% And and there's so much potential floran even in that um and we
did we did do some exercise similar to that NBI but it was more for training but the listening
to the interactions and learning from that is so powerful the challenge is though and and again
without wanting to open a Pandora box but there's so many cultural challenges in F and the way we
operate in the in the in the in the eternal how do I name this in the Eternal not fight but you
know rivalry if you like or frictions between in marketing and sales now listen to that does
that mean that you know you are you listening to me or are you trying to learn about the customer
and until this customer relationship management is owned by everyone and we understand that this is a
cross functional effort and hopefully AI is going to help us connect the dots as well internally
because again when the complexity is there it takes a team to figure it out yeah but um but
there's there's so much of that as well right on it's not that I don't know how to use it there's
there's a lot more than I don't know how to use it that is preventing me from using tools like that
yeah I I and it is is a box but like the the the collaborative part of it is is really important
and I think I I mentioned earlier on talking about like it's important to understand CRM capabilities
and build that into your strategy for marketing but part of that strategy should also be how that
CRM that and the content that you've created as a marketer supports your Salesforce in driving
things home like I I created a video like a a few months back with with just some Basics
on CRM like if you're a marketer this is how you can build your adoption ladder or objections into
your CRM this is how you should think about it and actually this is how it's relevant to your sales
team who are actually trying to convert things for you and actually if you allow them to help
you design that they're going to tell you what the key questions are and objections are you're
going to be able to log that in your CRM you'll be able to put that into your capture forms on
your websites and things like that so you know I I think it has to be a a collaborative effort and
then even I know like then you talk about medical Affairs and to be honest with you medical Affairs
have some better values in some areas of this and I know there's there's question marks over
how data should be shared and how we should interact but at one point like we've talked
about top of funnel content marketing we've talked talked about the sale talked about the
middle but we haven't talked about customer growth and expansion and maybe there it's like somebody
wants a you know a fellow medic a clinical person to ask questions and and challenge like how to
solve an an adverse event or whatever else then then why why can't medical Affairs be that you
know that person so it's like how can they be part of this this this process as well um and
make sure that their content is tagged and that everybody is working together around a customer
goal like the customer is moving through and it should be touched at every Point by the right
people by the right content um and I think that that's that's the thing for me that's dismissing
and um I think when people realize that nobody's fighting against each other everyone is commercial
to an extent everyone's trying to drive a customer from least value to most value and
everyone if they have the right values and why they're working in this industry is trying to
generate good impact for patient so just because you're trying to Market a drug doesn't mean you
know you you're trying just trying to sell it and just because you're in medical doesn't mean
that you don't care about the bottom line of your business I think that mentality has to
change and then the power of AI is going to be even better because we're going to spread all
the work that everyone's doing is going to be is going to be captured and insights are going to be
generated you know who who should interact with this customer based on this question well we've
seen that if it's an MSL interaction it's actually better than having an account manager come in at
this stage so now on medical you should take on this this side of the customer Journey would be
you know would be really cool but I think just that that fundamental understanding first of
the capability you already have in your hands the automations you can produce through through
Salesforce and stuff you know the the plotting out your adoption ladder tagging your content tracking
objections knowing what Persona or customer is if the marketing and sales team have have an
understanding of that then it's going to be great as I said I I done a video on this and people go
to branas health.com resources there's a video that's called how how something about how CRM um
is the key to understanding Omni channel it's like eight minutes of your life it's it's what I would
consider fundamentals but I think for some people it will just open their eyes to the capabilities
once you once you've got that mindset now you start marketing different you start working with
your sales team different um so yeah I think I think it's these are really important points to to
cover you sorry no I just I just was going to comment on perhaps a little bit more philosophical
but your point on the alignment because at the end of the day we're all there for the patient
and I think sometimes we forget and we call it commercial like if it's a dirty word and I in you
could even remove it if you just make it truly patient Centric automatically becomes customer
Centric and then automatically we're all aligned behind the same goal um we're all here for the
same reason no matter what function you belong to it's it's it should be one plan should be one
system in which we try to understand how do we remove those barriers for ultimately the drug
which we believe is good for the patients get to the patients and you know that can benefit from
that but I wouldn't say AI is a silver bullet to solve the human problems inside the Enterprise
inside the company right but it can help so if you go to those people like medical and you ask them
you know who want the customer they will tell you I own the customer because the customer medic like
me I'm the one best place to understand him and I'm the best place to talk to him then you will go
to the marketeers and they will tell you I own the customer because I'm creating the customer Journey
end to end and I drive them along the journey toward the adoption of the product and then
you go to the sales team and they tell you I own the customer I'm the only one who makes sense to
them I'm one talking to them every day so you know what but the what AI can do is what we've done in
one of the ex on the trading is you you dump your data on your fake product you can you can you can
create a you know a custom GPT in GPT 4 right you dump your elements on your fake product into it
because it's still public domain so you don't want to dump your internal data into it but you do that
and then you ask a CH GPT to can you tell me which are the most likely eligible hcps to be interested
by that product based on their patient pool and stuff like that the system is going to tell you
so you have this type of specialist you can then ask it country by country and you will see that
given the healthare system are different you will have different types of of doctors in the Target
then you can ask the system can you create an education curriculum for those hcps so that they
go from knowing nothing about the therapeutic area and the product to their expert and the stuff is
going to do it then you can ask okay can you give me based on my product profile What would could be
the key differentiator versus the competitors and what could be the key message we need to
include and then you can go down to the leflet that someone could could be using and and if
you do that exercise in a cross functional team at the end of the day everyone is holy [ __ ] we are
all together and and that's really what matters and that's where for me AI may not be a solution
but it can be a catalyst to make this thing happen 100% And and the bit of the date at the beginning
from is is the bit that will force us to come together right because without the the data
being all in one place there's no game so we have to work together or or or not or die or die that's
that's the American side of Cl in the next but it's true that in the next five years five forward
or whatever who is not that but in this bus is not going to probably be here to tell the story so we
we do need to get together and it's great that's that's what I am more excited about it's forcing
us to solve some of the cultural underlying issues I'm gonna steal it from you Claudia
my next tagline will be AI do or it turns out it turns out that we need a robot to help us be more
human that's no no no we need to stay there this is a companion this is a very clever companion I
do not think it should remove our you are thinking we have we have a question from the audience so
uh J is saying that you talk a lot about cross functional collaboration with sales marketing and
also other departments to holistically optimize personalized engagement with hcps so my question
would be how far are we actually in that area to align people uh and enter in large Enterprises all
across brand cross countries who's brave enough enough to take this [Music] [Laughter] question
I think that has been the journey everyone has been trying to go on it's just that you know
it's not that easy it's human beings we talking about here human beings with Legacy attitudes to
you know what does it mean to collaborate being frankly as well no there's there's other things
that you need to solve in order to 100% enhance that collaboration incentives being one of the
recognition I mean we talked about so many things and uh but I I I do think that we have come a long
way if I compare to I don't know maybe 10 years ago um but it's a journey I don't think we are
100% there floran seems to have more of a hold of it but uh in in grun but I I think everyone's
trying and everyone at least I think everyone is conscious of that being a goal and being a
challenge that we have CL I think I think that you where you touched on um like incentives and
things I don't think that's the answer but but I do think objectives incentives performance reviews
and stuff is something that um would would does need to change in order to allow people to do this
because if if you know where when there's there's vanity metrics around sales and msls and stuff
like that having to get X number of meetings and stuff yeah like why would you share information
about a customer with the marketing and the rest of the sales team if that's going to just result
in your competitive Advantage being removed so like that kind of thing and again it's like you
know I think you said it around the switch in mindset if you start to think our goal is the
impact of the patient rather than SE selling the product then you start to think of it differently
and then maybe people's incentives are different people's objectives are different uh and then you
get less competitiveness between functions like the way budgets are distributed things like that
that I don't know I not worked in in a farma so I don't know but I I do you know people worry about
that and complain about it just little things like the idea that if you don't use all your budget one
year then you don't get that budget the next year so then people just throw budget at agencies and
I've been there and it's great for business but it's a waste of money you know just oh we'll just
do this project because I need to use my budget by the end of the year that kind of thing to me
for a company that makes health care products for patients why don't you just use that money
on trying to help a hospital in your region make a new test center or something you know I don't know
I just think it's like if the goals were different and what you were measured on is different and how
you received budgets was different then maybe you would take a different approach to strategy
and there would be a more alignment between the functions yeah so on on this one it took
us a whole reorganization and a lot of focus of uh the management team and a lot of repeating
the message uh rewriting the job description recreating the standard operating procedure
and all that to be able to get to a good level of alignment are we there all down the way I'm not
sure and what I know that you know if you take the global teams yes the people are aligned uh
and we're collaborating together we were this week on a team meeting with all the global commercial
functions and you could feel the the one team one crowd spirit and and everyone in the same
direction uh we also have that in the leadership teams in our different countries we can Fe it see
it when we go there it's not always happening at field level because also one of the things
we have realized is that every single company I have been working in or working with under invest
the onboarding process of the people so you will take a marketeer from somewhere else dump him in
or her in the organization and they will start to behave like their originating organization
and not the culture you want to have in your own company because there is no onboarding process
you tell them no no no no no in our company this is how we do things right there is no marketing
plan medical plan Market access plan there is one asset plan and beginning of Life to end of
life of the product and we all contribute equally to it there is no specific stuff and and and and
I think it takes time and we're working right now on that on boarding because every time we have uh
people joining the company they need to understand how we collaborate and i' have not seen a lot of
great onboarding programs out there maybe that's a business to create yeah okay going back going
back to the initial question so we covered that we covered basically L between different departments
because at the end of the day um everyone owns the customer you know sales owns the customer
marketing owns the customer medical owns the customer and nobody actually owns the customer
if you know what I mean right so because if there are many many people who own the customer at the
end who is the one who says well the sentiment is negative they're not going to work with us
or we haven't delivered on our promise right is it sales who's going to say that or it's going
to be marketing or whoever so I think it's very important to have one person being actually one
or one Department being actually responsible for the for the engagement um we're having the the the
most important say in in what comes to uh talking to to customers to the the final uh customer so
we discussed we discussed data we discussed U the fact that there is analytics that we would like to
use what are going back to to Ai and serums what are maybe some efficient way some many efficient
looking in the future like what are some efficient ways we could use a with a serum what what would
you guys foresee in the next maybe a year or two that AI could really help AI inside serum let's
say Vivo or IQ or uh piter would help us to uh use it better and having better insights and so on
just if I was to say one thing that I I that would be very helpful one thing for me would
be building building customized dashboards without having the expertise of knowing how to build those
dashboards in a CRM without having to spend it on that being able to answer a question that you
have to help you develop your your marketing strategy in my in my world that would be the
most powerful thing and my point about like you know which customer Target knowing which
a target has the most commercial impact for the brand and knowing being able to pull reports on
what people are doing which tactics to use and all that stuff having those dashboards that you
could reflect on on a monthly basis which I don't think people are doing people aren't looking at
their CRM dashboards and using that to influence what they do next if they're not in sales I don't
think they're doing that very often that would be very powerful for me because it would help
us as an agency to make really great relevant recommendations um for our clients so I'd like to
see I'd like to see that um that capability move forward and I think it's possible that that will
happen in in you know probably possible now with some with some Ai and some CRM Integrations Floren
what do you so my yeah as as Global you know head of comx my dream that tomorrow this system I come
in the morning take my coffee and I chat with it and I ask the system you know what happened
what happened yesterday right how's it going and the system tells me you know what you have this
part of your content that has been consumed that seems to be interesting I would suggest to expand
it to this group of Customer because they could be responsive or you have this part of your marketing
mix that actually is not delivering as it should be you need to reconsider and change maybe the
messaging or you know try this versus that n no I I I would like as you know as CL was saying I
need a co-pilot I need someone who's going to look at all that wealth of data and make sure that I
don't need to look at the dashboard I don't want to look at dashboard I want to talk to someone
even if it's an AI That's going to look at the data for me and tell me you know what I should be
doing like the next step in my Tesla is for me to tell my Tesla I want to go to Aon and he drives me
to Aon right now I can say I want to go to Aon and he draws a stuff and I still have to drive and I'm
frustrated Drive yeah I yeah I couldn't I couldn't agree more I think that complimentary view of the
of our understanding without substituting by the way the deepest bit of it that we you know need
to keep feeding into the system and and keep um Gathering ourselves is is the most critical bit
because once you understand then you can do right then you can do different things and then we're
thinking about AI obviously put somewhere else so they can help us obviously on the automation of
content and create more content and personalize and and optimize and all the rest of it but if
you don't have that holistic everything in one place and by the way once we put it on in one
place we're going to want to cry or run away if it depends on us who actually make sense of it that's
where I think the power of AI is awesome so we're at the top top of the hour almost any closing um
closing testimonials guys from any of you no I would just react on the last post on the on the in
the the floor uh someone some is saying that they like the future of farma with CRM but they would
not want to drive the Tesla with AI that's kind of the why Elon Musk is Elon Musk and I am who I
am now we got onto our neurons and with all due respect I would not want Elon Musk plugged into my
neurons it's like there must be some hardcore marketers who who actually really want to do
all that data analytics and they'll be annoyed if they've got an AI doing it for them they that's
what they live for you know like the driver I don't know I don't think there is any I'm not
sure even the data analytics team would say no thank you no say thank yes thank you because I
do I do think the way I think about it is like it can do the analysis so that we can do the thinking
with it as opposed to us spending 99.9% of the time doing the analysis and then there's no time
for the thinking because we're just overwhelmed so I do want to driv in your Tesla nean so when
you're ready tell me have a right happy to have C chat in the morning I think I would also just you
know say a message of like I think it is very exciting and there's a lot of possibilities I
think I would just plead with people like first understand what CRM can do and its capabilities
and how you can build that into your marketing strategy understand that and then start to
explore what the possibilities with with your AI because then you'll really understand what
can happen with AI if you understand what can happen now I think maybe too many people at the
moment just leave that to like a um an internal function thing like someone else deals with the
CRM I need to think about it my advice is like once you really understand it it's going to
change your completely change your perspective to marketing um it's certainly did for me so that's
my recommendation look at and understand your CRM and what it can do now yeah mine would be
on that line then that um Clarity of what you're trying to achieve is critical as well and that
applies to the metrics we're using now which sometimes are not perfect and sometimes it is
because they're not really linked to the strategy sometimes they are vanity metrics useless metrics
whatever metrics so make sure that whatever it is you're going to put in place perhaps that little
if you can but but but with a very clear intent in mind otherwise it's just an experiment that
probably is going to prove that it doesn't work and it's not because it doesn't work it's because
it was set up wrong very true awesome thank you thank you D you Claus thank you floran um
we are ending our webinar uh for today but uh we will continue our webinars in February again so
please do follow Dan Claudia and floran they're very active on LinkedIn um and um I'll see you
guys again hopefully at the end of the year thank you very much you guys bye bye thank you bye bye
byebye