[00:00:00] Antony W: Welcome to the Grow My Salon Business podcast, where we focus on the business side of hairdressing. I'm your host, Antony Whitaker, and I'll be talking to thought leaders in the hairdressing industry, discussing insightful, provocative, and inspiring ideas that matter. So, get ready to learn, get ready to be challenged, get ready to be inspired, and most importantly, get ready to grow your salon business.

[00:00:28] Antony W: Hey, it's Antony Whitaker here, and welcome to today's episode of the Grow My Salon Business podcast. I've always been fascinated with what makes people successful in any area of life, and as I'm a hairdresser, it's always made sense to be finding out what makes people successful in the hairdressing industry. Now, years before podcasting was a thing, I produced a collection of interviews called Unplugged, where I interviewed a range of people from the hairdressing industry, and one of them was a true hairdressing master, Mr. Kerry Warn who Nicole Kidman describes as being the best hairdresser in the world. When I'm interviewing people these days, I very rarely talk a lot about their journey into hairdressing. But when I interviewed Kerry, I was intrigued to find out about his background and the journey of how he got to where he is today. He's been the man responsible for producing iconic hairstyles for a whole list of movies such as Eyes Wide Shut, the Stepford Wives, the Great Gatsby, Bewitched, Mrs America, Grace of Monaco, Blade Runner to name a few. And you would've seen his work on the world's biggest fashion catwalk, and on the cover of leading fashion magazines and on the most high- profile celebrities from the world of music, fashion, and entertainment.

[00:01:53] Antony W: Today's podcast is an interview that was done in 2015, and Harry is still very much active today. But what stood out most when talking to a mate years ago was his humility, his charm, and his insights into fashion and hear and beauty. I think he has a depth of knowledge that is something that is often missing today. Kerry's story and his life in general is an amazing journey of commitment, dedication, and passion that I just know you are going to be inspired by. So, without further ado, welcome Mr Kerry Warn


[00:02:30] Kerry W.: Thank you very much, Anthony, and thank you for talking to me.

[00:02:35] Antony W: My pleasure. It's great to have you here. Right. So, look, let's start at the beginning, um, because I think you've got an amazing story, your life story. I've, uh, had the pleasure of interviewing you before and I know a little bit about your background and, uh, have done some more research since we were last together. And, I just think you have the most, uh, fascinating life
 
story. , I will just sort of introduce it and then let you flesh it out. , I know that you were born in a place called Mount Barker, which , is situated approximately 250 miles, uh, south of Perth and Western Australia, and it's got a very small population thereof, uh, around 2000 people. And for anyone who doesn't know, Perth is the most isolated city on the planet, and you were 250 miles or 400 K from Perth. So that makes it extremely isolated. So, um, you know, I really want to go back to beginning and start with your, your life story as to how you've turned into this, hairdresser extraordinaire that works with some of the most.
Uh, talented and creative people in the, in the world of fashion and, and, and movie, uh, as a hairdresser. So, over to you.

[00:03:41] Kerry W.: Well, Antony I, I think probably my first introduction really to hairdressing was my sister Gloria. She was a hairdresser. So, when I was about sort of, I guess about nine, 10 years old, I used to drop by the salon on after school and go and sort of hang out. And I was intoxicated by the smell of perming lotion, nail polish remover. And to me to this day, even though there are hardly any perming, lotion, smells around, salons and things like this, even nail polish to me, tells me glamor, there's something, it's about transformation, it's about glamor. And to me it was exciting. And to be able to do that to someone, to be able to transform someone, I think that I'm, you know, putting the pieces together in my mind. I think that's probably what got me interested in, in, uh, addressing for sure.

[00:04:34] Antony W: Okay. So, Before that this, this place you've grown up in, which I'd never even heard of until I did some research. But but you know what, what was it like as a kid growing up in a, in a country town? When are we talking? Fifties, sixties, fifties. I mean, what was that like growing up in an environment like that?

[00:04:49] Kerry W.: Amazing, amazing sense of freedom. Um, open space. Well, obviously, um, I mean, I'm the youngster, six kids. We had a pretty, pretty easy sort of life, I guess, I guess, you know, there was no fear of like big city life or, or, or pressure things. But, you know, I always felt like, uh, I had to escape and I don't know whether it was escape professionally or, or creatively or, um, I just, we used to, um, live near the. well, where, where we lived on the main street was just near the town hall where they used to show, they used to have, um, the pictures showing twice a week. Right. So, and I was absolutely fascinated with that. And I was sort of like fascinated with the way people looked in it, you know, I thought, you know, these people are born the most extraordinary looking creatures in the world. Yeah. Not realizing age. They probably went through hair and makeup, costume and lighting in it and all the
 
rest of things. And I thought that everybody, including my sisters and bears, should all be looking like these people.

[00:06:05] Antony W: Right. Even though they were on a, in a small country town.

[00:06:07] Kerry W.: Exactly. But it's still to me. Yeah. When I look back, they did look glamorous. Yeah. You know, I mean there was, there was a sense of there was a sense. Of care that was taken and I think it was of the time. And I suppose what happens, we all do look back at old photographs or family pictures or things and how incredibly well turned out people looked at a certain period. Mm-hmm. Now I think it was because they're gonna have their photograph taken. So they made an effort to brush their hair and. put their frock on. Yeah. Or, or or put their coat on. Or, or, or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Polished issues or, sure. You know, and I guess it's part of things, but I think people, when they went out in public, there was a certain sense of, and it wasn't about necessarily about money or finance or how rich or poor you were, it was about presenting yourself in the best way, even if you went down to the town, town shopping or whatever. So, and I think that's very, very important. I think it's something that I sort of miss today. And I think it's always so inspiring when you go somewhere or you'll see someone walking down the street that looks immaculately turned out, or, and it might be particularly your taste, but you think, what an effort, God, what an effort. And you do see certain older. during that, you think, oh my God, the energy and the dedication that takes, yeah, that's absolutely admirable to me.

[00:07:35] Antony W: Yeah, I agree. So, did you, as a kid, did you feel a bit like a fish outta water?

[00:07:40] Kerry W.: Uh, well, I, I sort of , funny know, going to these movies kicked off a whole other thing in me as well. You know, I used to go to movie, I saw musicals, I saw Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers dancing on the, on the screen. I thought, you know, with my bit trying dancing, why not? I heard you did have a, a period of time where you were really wanting to be an aspiring ballet dancer. Yeah, well, I, I studied, I studied, well the only, the only dance classes in in town were classical ballet.

[00:08:08] Kerry W.: Yeah. Um, unbeknown to my father, I taught my mother into going to ballet class, which was on Saturday morning, which, I was just very good dancer, but I liked the idea. But I think it was a sort of a good discipline too, you know? Um, because, I don't say I was, maybe I was an undisciplined child, I think.
 
[00:08:33] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. Um,

[00:08:37] Antony W: so, this is real Billy Elliott stuff, isn't it?

[00:08:39] Kerry W.: Well, it's, it's, I think it sensed a sound like that now, but I don't think it, and to me it was never, never, when I was a kid, it was just sort of something, you know, I've seen other people do it, why can't I do it? I didn't understand why it got so complex with everybody around me.

[00:08:56] Kerry W.: Yeah. I didn't really understand because, you know, you are sort of at that age, you're not thinking anything sexual or anything like this. You're just thinking, you know, I'd like to be able to do that. I'd like to leap across the room and spin in the air and fly upside down and do all those sort of things.

[00:09:12] Kerry W.: You know what I mean? It feels, was like, it was part of the, I suppose part of the circus mentality. Yeah. And, and I guess in a way it was, you know, I didn't think anything strange about it. I think everybody else around me was very sort, concerned. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I suppose growing up

[00:09:28] Antony W: in a, in a, in a country town with a, within a, in Australia in the fifties, there weren't a lot of, uh, boys that wanted to do ballet in the glass.

[00:09:35] Kerry W.: Well, I, I, you, I suppose not. They weren't, I was the only one. Yeah. And, uh, my father found out by drinking in the pub, and one of his mates come in and said, oh, your son's in the same class. , there were a few words, said that he made that s going on in this house that he, he didn't know about, da da da . And anyway, I carried to keep to appraise him.

[00:09:57] Kerry W.: I said, okay, I'll stay. with a ballet, but I had to do football practice in the afternoon.

[00:10:03] Antony W: Right. So you you did both.

[00:10:05] Kerry W.: I did both. Right. Saturday was a busy day for me. Yeah.
. Okay. Yes. And I was absolutely lousy at football anyway. Yeah. You know,

[00:10:12] Kerry W.: So, so where did you first start? Hairdressing. Hairdressing. Yeah. How did, how did that come about?

[00:10:18] Kerry W.: Well, actually my father was, um, had race horses on the, um, on the country circuit in Mount Barker. It's a town nearby called Albany.
 
And anyone, any of them that were, showed any promise he would send to Perth, to, um, to a guy called Jimmy McNamara. Now during McNamara was a trainer in Perth and had some quite successful hair, um, horses going.

[00:10:44] Kerry W.: His daughter Carmen Damara, was married to a very well-known hairdresser in Perth, called Ernest Grady. Yeah. So put two and two together. My father said, his kid's interested in doing some hairdressing. I don't think he should do it, but will you give him a chance? And Jimmy said, I'll, Jimmy said he'll speak to his son-in-law.

[00:11:13] Kerry W.: Yeah. So hence he did. And they thought they'll give me a try. And they go, he send me back home and sort of see how it went. So anyway, I went up to, um, to meet Ernest. Um, I started work there and six months later my dad's trying to talk me into sort of like, what am I coming back home? And I said, no, I never didn't wanna work in the bakery.

[00:11:34] Kerry W.: And I was happy doing what I was doing. And um, and this, we had, I remember this wonderful conversation. We were driving from Perth to back to Mount Bark. and my dad's looking straight ahead and obviously on the road and says, Kerry, why can't you use this once in your life? Do something normal,

[00:11:59] Kerry W.: It's probably not gonna happen. No. Anyway. And um, but anyway, So there, there was no truth to the story that your father paid your wages to the time. No, no. But he did have to pay for my board. Right. Because I wasn't making any money and lived in the city.

[00:12:19] Kerry W.: Yeah. And I live with his sister who, my aunt, aunt Annie, who was absolutely gorgeous. Yeah. Lovely. So, so how long did you stay in, uh, in Perth for five years.

[00:12:30] Kerry W.: I actually, uh, from 17 till, till I was 22 actually. Yeah. Um, I did my apprenticeship, which was five years in those days. Yeah. Um, all in the one cell. All in one cell. Yeah. Passed all May exams, and then towards the end I was doing a lot of, like charity things for, for, uh, to raise money for, um, disabled children and, and things like this.

[00:12:54] Kerry W.: Uh, so I was doing hair shows, so, so to speak, but in created [00:13:00] in, in our own way using the girls from the salon as my models. Cause I couldn't obviously afford models or, you know, um, the industry was so small as you can imagine, in Perth. So, it just sort of like all my girls I work, work with, they suddenly became my.
 
[00:13:15] Kerry W.: my girls too. Yeah. That I turned into icons.

[00:13:18] Antony W: So, what, what was the impetus for you to lead Perth and go to London?

[00:13:23] Kerry W.: Um, I thought, you know, I've gotta, I, I have to try.

[00:13:27] Kerry W.: Um, my question was, would I go to Sydney? And I thought, you know what? Sydney's gonna be there. Yeah. London might always be there for me. Yeah. Because of the, you know, and, and I think every, I think every young person feels that, that they feel like you don't feel like you can conquer the world, but you feel like you can deal with So what, how did, how did you, you make that transition, so you're in Perth, you've made that decision, you decide to move to London.

[00:13:53] Kerry W.: Was there any, well, basic, basically, um, obviously I was student apprenticeship, so I wasn't. a lot of money and um, so we had a bunch of clients coming into the salon and sort of from different walks of life, we had a lot of legal people, doctors, you know, quite across the board, but we also had some of our ladies of the night girls.

[00:14:17] Kerry W.: Right. Which were the more fun, the more, the more fun the clients are. Yeah, totally. I like to, so to speak. Anyway, um, there's this wonderful, wonderful lady called Dory Murray, um, who was the madam and she used to sort of, she used to be a hairdresser, so she was so quite keen on hairdressing and looks and things, and she was quite an extraordinary character herself in those days.

[00:14:47] Kerry W.: She sort of like, she had white, bleached white hair. and she used to wear a lot of white, I remember a lot of white Aline ship dresses and things like this. And I suppose the closest thing I could say was probably like a dusty Springfield look, right? So, she was quite, she loved her sort of elaborate sort of shins and bufon hairdos and things like this.

[00:15:13] Kerry W.: Um, and sh I got into doing her hair for her cuz she was looking at my work and seeing what I was doing for these ex sort of hair shows and things like this. And I was fascinated with her because she had the most beautiful hair pieces I've ever seen. Okay. And that's what, before I was allowed to touch anybody's hair in the salon, I was given the job of washing everybody's hair pieces and cleaning them and getting them ready.
 
[00:15:37] Kerry W.: Because obviously in those days, ev basically most women. Had a wig wardrobe. Right. Which I think is one thing that's absolutely missing these days. Yeah. . I think it's to have that instant tribe, to have an instant chignon sitting in the cupboard where you've gotta suddenly go to a cocktail party, fantastic.

[00:15:56] Kerry W.: Put it on and go, you know, I don't think there's enough of, I, don't think there's, uh, people have enough flamboyancy about the hair these days. I think it's all, all become a little bit more normal and sort of like, they want it to look as real, like gluing in extensions. Why not put on half a wig? It's easier.

[00:16:14] Kerry W.: Take it off that night. You know, you don't have to sleep with someone's else's hair on, on their head, you know what I mean? Yeah. You can have the look and have, you know, the mileage from it. Look, it's great the next day cuz you've taken it off and haven't slept in it, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, um, so what happened is Dory said to me, would I like to go over to her places of work after work and give the girls a sort of come out and a bit of a buffer up and sort of.

[00:16:41] Kerry W.: So, resurrect them from the day's job, I guess. So, I, I did, yeah. And, and with that money, you know, the girls paid me cash. With that money I put aside and got my fair to be able to come to London.

[00:16:52] Antony W: Okay, fantastic. So, so what year was that when you arrived in London?

[00:16:56] Kerry W.: 1972.

[00:16:57] Antony W: Where did you start working then?

[00:16:59] Kerry W.: I went for a job in Knightsbridge, and it was like a terrible place.

[00:17:04] Kerry W.: Uh, and I thought, oh God, do I really, you know, this is not what London's about for me. You know, it was never, it was always a bit like, oh God, you know, I didn't really want to be in it, sort of like a salon. That wasn't happening, happening. And at that point someone said, oh, you know, they said, oh, you're Australian.

[00:17:26] Kerry W.: This is Australian guy working at, um, Elizabeth Ar. On Bond Street. I thought if he can get a job, I should be able to get a job. Probably
 
some fantastic address. I had this kid thinking, you know, he could do it. I could do it. So I went in for an interview. I got the job, and from my little portfolio I had from a, from Perth, from newspaper clippings, from shows, I'd done newspaper stuff and shoots I'd done in Australia, probably back, got four pages thick of, of, of star.

[00:17:58] Kerry W.: Um, I got the job and the following week I had to do, uh, the hair for a fashion show within the, within the, they um, Elizabeth Adam at that time was on Bond Street. It's where the Louis Vuitton shop is, is now on Bond Street. Right. And it was, um, like five floors of beauty.

[00:18:16] Kerry W.: So, and they had a clothing. Clothing place in the front, you know, selling dresses and, and all this without makeup and perfume, so, um, they had a fashion show and they said, right, you're doing the hair for it. So, I did, and I'm sort of bit nervous, but, you know, I'd done my hair shows, so I thought, you know, I'd know what I'm doing.

[00:18:36] Kerry W.: So, I did, and everyone sort of thought it was fantastic. And you were 22 or something now? Yes. 22. Yeah. And then at that point, um, they were doing some ads for some makeup for Elizabeth without makeup in, um, in London. They said, you know, could you do the hair for the, for the photo shoot? So, it was my first, I, I guess London photo shoot.

[00:18:58] Kerry W.: You know, I, I'd done sort of bits and pieces where I'd done someone's hair in a salon in Australia, they'd gone to a studio and been photographed. This was actually in a studio and I was actually doing the hair. Mm. And it was done for Hairdressers Journal and. When the hairdressers journal came, come out, it's written across it.

[00:19:18] Kerry W.: The look that is London. Oh God I’ve only been a couple of weeks. fantastic. But anyway, that's, I'm not gonna say anything. That's absolutely fine from that. The beauty editor at Vogue, whose name was Felicity Clark at the time, saw it and decided to book myself the makeup artist and the model to recreate the look with David Bailey for a Vogue cover.

[00:19:41] Kerry W.: And that was 1972.

[00:19:43] Antony W: So, you've literally just got off the plane and all of a sudden within a period of what, six months or less?

[00:19:48] Kerry W.: Uh, probably, yeah, probably about 12 months, I suppose.
 
[00:19:51] Antony W: Okay. You are doing a you're doing a Vogue cover with David Bailey fantastic. and, and that, and what, what happened then? So, you then decided, I, I didn't, no, no. This is what you wanna do.

[00:20:00] Kerry W.: Well, yeah. I thought I was fantastic like this, but not realizing that, you know, once you've done it and its sort of, you know, once it goes off and you stand, you've sort of no longer Yeah. Flavour of the month sort of thing. Yeah. So, it's sort of, you know, then I decided this is this editorial career that I wanted to pursue.

[00:20:17] Kerry W.: So, I did, and I sort of worked for a lot of various magazines. Not, I didn't actually really do any more Vogue covers until about 1976 or 77. Around about that time I did a few shoots and things, but when I finished anyway, I've, so, so, um, but working with Elizabeth Arden, I went on and then I decided, you know, I wasn't really quite fulfilled in what I was doing, so I went to work for Leonard.

[00:20:45] Kerry W.: And he, too, he used to have a whole house. that was just behind the American Embassy. And, um, so I worked there. That's where I first met, uh, John Frieder and a lot of other, you know, excellent hairdressers. And, um, [00:21:00] Leonard had a big, um, you know, a lot of his staff were out doing photo shoots and things.

[00:21:06] Kerry W.: He was very much the man at the moment in the seventies with the incredibly creative team like Daniel Galvin doing colour. And you had Celine doing the most amazing hair and Oliver from, uh, Len's doing hair and John and like amazing sort of people, like a team of people. So you are in a, an incredibly creative environment, which I only can be.

[00:21:32] Kerry W.: You know, it's, it's like anything, it's like working with, with talented people that inspire you. You could only learn, you know, I mean, unless you've got blindfolded and you know, then you don't obviously wouldn't learn anything. But, you know, you, you'd really need to, to be walk around with blinkers on not to learn sort of thing.

[00:21:53] Kerry W.: Yes. And it was a great learning experience. Um,

[00:21:56] Antony W: so, this sort of period of time was running parallel to this sort of Sassoon explosion of hairdressing in London at the same time.
 
[00:22:04] Kerry W.: Then it was a big hit. So, Sassoon was more sixties and Right. You know, and, and now we're talking seventies. Okay. You know, um, and it's all more like Sandra Rhodes and all those sort of looks.

[00:22:14] Kerry W.: You sort of like Grace Coddington's sort of seventies look with all the, he hairs all frizzed out and things. That was all Leonard.
Right. You know, quite extraordinary. Um, looks. Yeah. You know, what was going on.

[00:22:28] Antony W: So, who, who were the photographers you were working with in this, this group?

[00:22:30] Kerry W.: Um, well, there was obviously Bailey, um, Terrence Donovan, uh, worked a few times with Duffy.

[00:22:37] Kerry W.: Um, they were the sort of London based photographers. Mm-hmm. . Um, then when I started working for much More for Vogue, there was those guys plus, uh, Noman Parkinson I did quite a bit with him in the early seventies as well. And then, um, like Toscani and Alex Chatelain and Fabrizio Ferri and, oh, I mean, the, the list goes on and on and on and on and it, it's sort of endless.

[00:23:08] Kerry W.: So, cause suddenly I got taken under, under. into vogue and taken under their wing and worked with them solidly for about four or five years. Mm-hmm.	you know, sort of nearly, four days a week, nearly every week. Really? So, you were like the resident Vogue? Not, I wouldn't have said, but basically, I wasn't in the salon.

[00:23:26] Kerry W.: I was, I was there promoting and at that point I was working, I'd working for Morton Brown. Yeah. And left, left Leonards. Went back for a little stinted. I got enticed back to den. Yeah. Um, and then I went on and went back. I realized this is the wrong move. And then I went and met with, um, Harvey Carlos, who, uh, Morton Brown and got the job and then had to retrain again from retraining with Leonard and then retraining again with multiple browns, cause Molton Brown was a whole other realm of hairdressing in the, in those days it was, um, incredibly creative.

[00:24:06] Kerry W.: Um, but. with a natural force, sort of not, they didn't want to use hair dryers. Mm-hmm. They used to dry the hair naturally with your hands, you know, it was a whole other sort of method, and which was in invaluable for me, for what I went to, was going to, which I didn't know at the time I was going to go on and do film.
 
[00:24:26] Kerry W.: Sure. But how to do hair naturally is actually quite beneficial because I've learned the artifice. Not that I was great at it, but I, I, I learned how to construct and how to deconstruct. But to actually work with hair in this raw, natural form is actually quite something else. Entirely, you know?
And not, and to know when to pull back and not when to go to take too much.

[00:24:54] Kerry W.: Especially like, for instance, , I'm probably leaping ahead a bit here. No, no. When you're, when you're working for film and things, so suddenly, you know, someone's meant to have crawled out a shower and fallen asleep sort of thing. Mm-hmm. , how does that hair look? It, what is it saying and, and I think this, this is, this is where it comes into character building and what is not totally dissimilar to a photo photographic shoot.

[00:25:17] Kerry W.: It's like, what are you saying to the public that are watching? Mm-hmm. you know, if the hair wakes up and the hair's done, she's got full makeup on. It's like, it's not believable. Mm-hmm. you know, if the hair looks sort slightly must, and, you know, sort of undone and sort of free form, it's sort of, it tells the story where they actually.

[00:25:37] Kerry W.: saying anything. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[00:25:39] Antony W: Did, did, did you work behind the chair there in Morton Brown doing, yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you did columns at the ?

[00:25:44] Kerry W.: Yes. Yeah. Plus when I was in the salon doing session work Yeah. But doing a lot of session work and stuff like this, which was fantastic. Okay.

[00:25:53] Kerry W.: I think a lot of passion has gone out of hairdressing in some sense. You know what I mean? And I don't know whether it's because of, I don't know, maybe may, maybe it's because of the instantaneous of a blow dry bar You can walk in and just have your hair done and sort of, you probably wouldn't even know that person's name that's done your hair or, or have an affiliation with them, I think.

[00:26:14] Kerry W.: And I think it's quite a personal thing. You're touching someone, you are, you are in someone's space. Mm-hmm. And I think it's important to, to know them, to even before you start the hair, to talk to them, to consult with them, to sort of see what sort of person you're dealing with, you know, um, you know, it's a different situation if it's a model or an actress and you're putting 'em into a character or into a mode or something.
 
[00:26:41] Kerry W.: But if you're cutting someone's hair off, changing their colour and things, I think it's in quite important to know as much as you can. or as much as they allow you to know mm-hmm. About them. Yeah. Yeah. So, you can actually make them feel as good as they can possibly feel. Yeah. I mean, that's what we're there for.

[00:26:58] Kerry W.: We're there to enhance, we're there to, to elevate it. Mm- hmm. you know what I mean? You know, you don't go, you don't want to go to the hairdressers and come out feeling worse than you when you walked. It's the ideal. It's the ideal situation. It's a bit of a Yeah. So, so then you, you, you left London, you went to New York for a period of time, didn't you?

[00:27:18] Kerry W.: So, so when I, when in the sort of, in the, in the late, in the late seventies, um, I decided, you know, I was going into New York at this point, you know, I was doing a lot of editorial. I was going into New York to do, um, various shoots and things, and I decided that I'll give it a go. So I packed my bags off. I go to New York.

[00:27:40] Kerry W.: and, um, I stayed there for 14 years. Yeah. You know? And so was that seen as the mecca for you at the time? For, for Oh, yeah. I, I think it was very fantastic. I, I think it was very important to me because it also sort of, like I've sort of mentioned before, I think the discipline of New York Yeah. Was very, very important for me because, you know, I was sort of used to London where everything's a little bit more, in a way, a little bit more laid back at the time, a little bit more, um, you know, easier so to speak because there wasn't, I guess, I guess what changes the balance is the money, you know, and like in New York, they, they're paying X amount.

[00:28:20] Kerry W.: They turn, you turn up, you perform sort of that London, there's very little cash involved, especially in the seventies there was even less. Yeah. You know, so it was a little bit more easier in a sense. And I think what it did is it taught me a lot of discipline, professionalism, and, um, Yeah. And, and, and, and led me to, to, I think to led me to grow as a hairdresser, but using, going back, learning all the techniques that I even learned at, um, at technical college, and it wasn't called TAFE in those days in Australia.

[00:28:55] Kerry W.: It was called, uh, technical college. And I went to the one in, in Perth called Mount Lawley Technical College and being forced to do finger waves. And I thinking, God, what are these women doing? I'm never going to use these. Cut to every day on Gatsby, every finger wave I did. I thought of those teachers. Yeah.
 
[00:29:15] Kerry W.: And being wrapped across the knuckles, not doing them properly until I got them correct. I thought, I'll show you. I can do it now. .

[00:29:23] Antony W: Yeah. One of the things that's coming across, you know, as you talk about your journey is you've taken every opportunity really to learn and evolve and, uh, and to become better at what you do. You're very sort of,

[00:29:36] Kerry W.: but I think that's what, I think that's what, that's, I think that's what life's about is Yeah. I, I mean, to me it is. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I never, I never feel complacent. Um, I'm always wanting to learn and I want learn something new and I've sort of this sort of, sort of joke, but it's not really a joke.

[00:29:58] Kerry W.: They think it's a joke, but I'm sort of actually quite serious about it, you know, sort of going to a salon guy said, so what's new? What's happening? I said, I want you to show me something new. I want you to inspire me. I want you; I want, I need to be inspired.

[00:30:12] Antony W: Do you still go into salons?

[00:30:14] Kerry W.: Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's great to see what [00:30:17] Antony W: you don't do. Clients in Salon do?
[00:30:18] Kerry W.: No, no, no, no, no, no. I, I don't think they'd want me in there.

[00:30:22] Antony W: You have an affiliation with John Frieder?

[00:30:25] Kerry W.: I work, I have a, a contract with the, with, uh, the John Frieder products. Right. Okay. And, um, I work very closely with them on when they're developing new products and I'm testing them and, and things for them.

[00:30:38] Kerry W.: Um, I do a lot of promotional stuff for them. Um, and John and, and the product company are two separate divisions. Yeah. But whenever I'm doing shows or. Or whatever, I will go to the summer and get a whole bunch of kids to come and help me, and then we'll do like a training evenings. So thought this is how it's going to work, this is what I want to achieve, this is how we're going to do the show.

[00:31:02] Kerry W.: Um, and things. So it's like a little bit and quite, I, I go and do, um, sort of little workshops with them sometimes. Mm-hmm. Because
 
they're incredibly helpful to me. I will sort of give back what knowledge I have. Mm-hmm. Um, I did one quite recently the importance of hair colour in film.
Mm-hmm. Which, you know, they were sort of, what in the hell is this about?

[00:31:25] Kerry W.: Yeah. You know, and I basically, um, showed, showed them how important it is to create either class structure, personalities and things with the, with the shades of hair colour mm-hmm. And things that you can use on a person. Mm-hmm. , you know, whether they're downtrodden, whether they're high maintenance, whether they're a, they're a sort of like a real, sort of full on sort of hair victim.

[00:31:53] Kerry W.: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? All those things portray in hair colour, you know what I mean? Whether the woman's going to be in there having a roots done, her highlights done every six weeks, or whether she's a sort of like a girl that maybe makes it every six months. Mm- hmm. , you know. Yeah. Or whatever, you know.

[00:32:08] Kerry W.: And these, these are all important when you're, when you're building characters for film.

[00:32:12] Antony W: Sure. So just, just before we get back into the film thing for a minute, just back to the New York thing for a second. Mm-hmm. . Um, so you were there for 14 years. Did, was it, I mean, obviously 14 years is a long time.

[00:32:22] Antony W: Obviously it did sort of satisfy you or fulfil your needs at the time. What, what was it you were doing there? Was it mostly editorial work? More advertising, more editorial,

[00:32:30] Kerry W.: A lot of advertising I made. I made. A lot of money there. Good on you. It's nice. I know, I noticed you paused before you said there's nothing wrong with making some money, you know, good at what you do, you should make money.

[00:32:40] Kerry W.: So, um, and uh, is that where you started film in New York? Was that your first introduction to film? Yes. Yeah. My, my first introduction to to film was, is I did a movie with Tony Scott. Right. Um, and what had happened is I was working with, very closely with a makeup artist who was started design. He was started designing makeup, the film, and he used to cross over and do hair and makeup and he worked a lot with Tony.
 
[00:33:12] Kerry W.: And, uh, there was this job in Mexico and apparently the girl that was doing the hair on the job was, wasn't fulfilling her position. Right. and uh, he, I got a call in the middle of the night. I was in Italy shooting Italian Vogue. And I remember this, the phone going, it was before mobile days obviously. And he said, listen, I need you to get to Mexico on Monday to work on this film.

[00:33:37] Kerry W.: Can you do it? And I went, he said, we need to know now. And he said, he said, I don't know why you're, why you're contemplating, have you done a film? I said, no. He said, well, so what, what are you? It's a learning curve. And I thought, well, right. It is a learning curve, I guess, you know, I thought it doesn't work out.

[00:33:57] Kerry W.: Can always go home, It's always, it's always the sanctuary, you know, Mount Bark's always going to be there for me, . And anyway, so, um, I went back to New York, packed up, went to Mexico and met. At the time, Kevin Costner, Anthony Quinn and Madeline St. And I was doing the whole three of them for the film. It was a movie called Revenge.

[00:34:20] Kerry W.: It was all about sort of politics, gangsters, prostitution, which I can identify with, obviously after my experiences. Um, and yeah, it was, it was an interesting experience. Great working with Tony. I really, I really love working with him and I did a few commercials with him after that as well. I never did another movie with him, which is unfortunate.

[00:34:46] Kerry W.: Um, but I really, really enjoyed working with him. Yeah. Um, what, what, what was the big difference between, because it's between, because up until this point you've been doing a little session. Uh, well he, what's a big difference between session work and film work? Well, well there wasn't a lot for me, right.

[00:35:00] Kerry W.: Um, because basically, obviously to do the boys' hair was pretty, I mean, in a way straightforward anti Quinn had to look like a diplomat and, but sort of a gangster diplomat Yeah. Sort of thing. Um, Kevin had to look sort of normal. He's ex-army helicopter pilot, you know, sort of, so it was pretty normal.

[00:35:23] Kerry W.: Madeline, he wanted, she was like the trophy wife and he wanted her to look like a Helmet Newton girl. Mm-hmm. , which is perfect. I love Helmut Newton girls. Yeah. You know, who doesn’t? Yeah. I mean, gotta be crazy not to. Anyway, um, so I turned her, so Owen, he said, you know, I wanna, you know, like this helmet you can down like this.
 
[00:35:45] Kerry W.: So, I, the wave over the eye and I sort of, Said she looks fucking hard, so greats good. So, it's fine. Let's carry on. Yeah.

[00:35:54] Antony W: So was that, and then you continued just doing films or did you It was still no editorial.

[00:35:59] Kerry W.: No, that was it. I went back to my editorial life. Right. And then one of the boys on it that was working on it, one of the, um, second assistants got another movie to be set in Argentina.

[00:36:13] Kerry W.: And it was, um, It was about sort of white slavery in the twenties. Mm-hmm. So it was my first twenties movie, so to speak. And it was a movie called Na Tango. And it was all about tango palace's, white slave, white traffic trafficking, um, young girls from Eastern Europe into prostitution in Argentina. Um, and it was the same scriptwriter that wrote Kiss of the Spider Woman, this guy called Leonard Shrek.

[00:36:43] Kerry W.: He directed it as well. Mm-hmm. And, uh, it was, I, I think a love, not a lovely story. An interesting story. Yeah. Um, but my father was the best critic on that. Cause after he'd seen revenge and Naked Tango, he said to me, why can't you do something romantic? Because all these women are being abused. And I'm thinking, maybe I did something, something happened in my childhood, I wasn't quite aware of.

[00:37:10] Kerry W.: No And, but, uh, anyway, no. So that was. My first attempt at twenties, which I think looked okay. And so, you know, I sort of, I was going through my, uh, archives recently and I, I found an old, um, photo layout of the looks. Mm-hmm. And I thought, oh, it doesn't look too bad. I'm not too embarrassed about it. Mm-hmm.

[00:37:34] Kerry W.: So every late, very, very late night tv. It still comes up now and again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because Ires said to me, I saw that movie you did. And I did this sort of quite extreme little Louise books prop for our leading lady. And everybody else had finger waves, but she was the only girl that had straight hair.

[00:37:52] Kerry W.: Because I want her to make, look her to look more modern than the other girls. So, so to speak.

[00:37:56] Antony W: What, what are some of the other movies you've, you've worked on?
 
[00:37:59] Kerry W.: Uh, right, Down Memory Lane now. Well, I've, um, Eyes Wide Shut with Stanley Kubrick. Yes. Yeah. That must have been amazing. That was, we shot for two years. Yeah. Two years. In. Two years. And it was, um,

[00:38:15] Antony W: And is that the first time you worked with Nicole Kidman?

[00:38:17] Kerry W.: Yes. First time you, first time I worked with Nicole and Tom and, uh, it was, it was quite interesting, um, because before I was going to do the tests and things like this, um, Stanley was saying to me, you know, I want to see all that hair.

[00:38:37] Kerry W.: I wanna all see all those red curls. I want. That's what I want. I wanna see those red curls. And, and I said, fine. Okay. I'm thinking, is he really looking at the face or is he looking at the hair? Now, this is an incredibly intelligent intellectual director I'm working with, so I'm sort of, I'm a sort of like, not tiptoeing, but I'm thinking he knows much more about film than I will ever know.

[00:39:03] Kerry W.: Yeah. You know, and then we, we did it and he, great, great, great. He was happy with everything. And I said, Stanley, can I just show you one thing? He said whats that, I said, just look at this. And I just took Nicole's hair with my hands, twisted it and put one pin in it. And I said, look at her neck and her jaw.

[00:39:25] Kerry W.: He said, oh my God, I know what you're talking about. Suddenly you saw this skin, this beautiful porcelain skin and neck and it just heightened and exaggerated everything. And he said to me, it's more beautiful than a lot of the hair sometimes screaming massive regular hair. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what we pretty much went through the whole film.

[00:39:45] Kerry W.: Okay. The scenes were obviously with the couple of scenes with it down, but pretty much even bedroom scenes pinned up in one way, random way or whatever. Yeah. And that was two years in the filming. Mm-hmm. . Right. Okay. . That's intense. I never thought I'd ever work again. Right. I think people probably think I'm dead.

[00:40:02] Kerry W.: Yeah. Yeah. Well that, that is obviously a downside of film as opposed to you've moved yourself out, you disappear, you, you've moved yourself off the, uh, off, off the radar. Yeah. Sort of, so to speak. But, uh, you know, it was, it was a, it was a lovely experience and also, I was, I was
 
very flattered because, you know, he'd worked with people like Leonard and people like that before doing film.

[00:40:25] Kerry W.: He, cause Leonard did all the hair for, um, Barry Lindon and all those wonderful movies he had done. So, I was very flattered that I was put into that. No, I wouldn't say that category because I think that would be sort of assumption. But to be thought of that I had, that I was getting to where he wanted to, to go as well.

[00:40:49] Kerry W.: You know, I would think that was, it was very nice. So that was my first introduction to Nicole and from then on I went to do. another movie. I went actually after straight after that I went to Sydney, which was I think where I first met you. Where Yeah. Where I did Mission Impossible two. Right. Okay. And with Tom and Thandie Newton.

[00:41:08] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. And that was all shot in most, mostly Sydney. And, um, then I, uh, from that, Nicole asked me to do a movie, and it's actually one of my favourite hair I've ever done on her is a movie called The Others. Right, yeah, I've seen it. Yeah. Which was all shot in Spain on, on stage, in and in August in Madrid it was as hot as hell.

[00:41:34] Kerry W.: And cause it's meant to be the, the, um, channel Islands and it's all wintry and dark and grey and this, and, um, . It was quite interesting cuz the director who was incredibly talented, Alejandro MEbA was a wonderfully, he wrote the script, he learned to speak English, to direct the film in English. And uh, he composed the music.

[00:41:57] Kerry W.: I mean, his talk about genius levels fantastic. And, but he foresaw the character as sort of quite Victorian, sort of like with red hair and chignon and things like this. And because you haven't seen them, if you know how it works. I said, don't you think that's going to give the game away a bit?
He said, well, what do you mean?

[00:42:21] Kerry W.: I said, well, you've got Victorian hair and everything. They're all meant to be in this Victorian house, you know, and it's not 1900. why don't we sort of put a spin on? So I gave a, a sort of like, almost like a 1930s sort of look right. With a wave and sort here and sort of and took the red out the head and sort of almost made it a little bit more neutral.

[00:42:48] Kerry W.: So, it looked sort of a bit colourless. Yeah. So, you, you, your role doing hair for films is very much about developing a character. Mm- hmm. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Yeah. So, it sort of says something without
 
saying the dialogue basically. Yeah. But it's, but it's like, but when you look at someone, don't you think like any hairdresser looks at someone and looks at their hair and it tells you a story about that person? Yeah.

[00:43:17] Antony W: Think at some level, but I don't think a lot of people are aware of it. I don't think they can think of it.

[00:43:20] Kerry W.: They don't think of it. Yeah. But it happens. And I think even if something's quite shocking, I remember this scenario once I was sitting, it was, I was in Ireland. and there was this lady sitting at the bus shelter and she'd just come from the salon, and she'd had this lavender rinse and her little perm Oh, done.

[00:43:43] Kerry W.: Sort of sitting there. All perfect. I, she looked fantastic, by the way. She's sitting there absolutely perfect. This young girl goes by on a bicycle with purple hair and she looks at her with such disdain thinking, oh my god, this little punk kid. And I'm thinking, who's the outrageous one here? Mm- hmm. This lady with the lavender at the bus stop.

[00:44:07] Kerry W.: Yeah. And the one with the purple on the bike. Yeah, exactly. I think they're both the same level. Yeah. Yeah. Because naturally has lavender hair. Yeah. And she's looking at her like, like, and it was such a wonderful moment. Mm-hmm. You know, thing and so extremes. But basically they were both extreme. Mm. and it wasn't like she wasn't looking as a youth thing, it was the hair colour.

[00:44:32] Kerry W.: Yeah. Do you And ended up saying so much about someone, I think she thought she was absolutely normal. Yeah. do

[00:44:39] Antony W: what do you prefer film or, or, or session work?

[00:44:43] Kerry W.: I enjoy both. I, you know, the thing is, I think I sort of, I think with film you have to please many more people with fashion, it's, you're pleasing less people.

[00:44:55] Kerry W.: You, you've got a, you need to have the producers and the money and the actors and the DOPs and the directors and the costume designs. Auto please. You, you're basically pleasing the photographer and the editors and things. So, so, so, so you have a lot less people to keep happy, so to say, to speak. Um, I think what I enjoy about both is creating the characters.
 
[00:45:22] Kerry W.: So, to me, what I enjoy about film is creating the characters, obviously. Mm-hmm. and once I've established them, the ma the maintenance is a tough one for me to do. Okay. I can do it. So the continuity of the continuity, the doing the same every day. Yeah. Um, you know, whether you're in the, like I did a movie called Australia in the Middle of the Outback with baz.

[00:45:48] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. And to do to take the red dust out of the hair and put it back in every day. right into like, you know, like, oh God, here we go. And had little dust machine sort of winding this red earth into the hair. So, it looked like it was, you know, cause obviously you can't expect people to sleep with all that stuff.

[00:46:09] Antony W: Yeah, yeah. You know, I, I did read somewhere that, um, someone said about you, the reason you were so successful was because you were so quick. Is that something that you were renowned for, that you can really just get in there and get a look done and out of there? I mean, obviously they like that. I mean, you know, these things, there's a lot of money being spent by the minute.

[00:46:29] Kerry W.: Um, um, I mean, is that is Well, I, I think, The thing is, I think speed comes with having to do hair for shows. Yeah. You know, fashion shows, you know, you've got 20, sometimes, 20, 25 girls to get ready and you have a team with you, but then it's your responsibility that it all looks finished and polished and things like this, they can do all the, a lot of the groundwork for you.

[00:46:52] Kerry W.: Um, but I think it's very important that you, um, and I always think hair can be overworked and I think the more you do to the hair, sometimes the worse it can get mm-hmm. . And also, I think, you know, unless they're meant to look like they've just walked out of a salon, hair shouldn't really be overworked.

[00:47:17] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. unless it's the script calls for like, uh, she's a multimillionaire and has her hair done every day, you know, and then the character would be something with a hairdo that's done every day. Don't touch me. So, of look. Yeah. Um, I think there should be a sort of a realness to it. And I think that realness can only happen if it's not laboured.

[00:47:40] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. And that's the way I, I work with it, you know, I'll do all my background work, but then I'll sort of, I'll basically in a sense, once I've finished getting the hair to the, the state I need it to be, I'll
 
probably quite often dress it with my hands. Yeah. I don't use brushes or combs or anything.

[00:47:57] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. You know, to get it to that. look where it looks like maybe, you know, it looks real. Yeah. In a sense, rather than too manufactured, because I think I have this, I also have this complex that I can do here that's too done all the time. So, I'm always conscious that I held, can I make that look less done? Mm-hmm, that's something I fight within myself.

[00:48:20] Antony W: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of young hairdressers hopefully listen to this, you know, might aspire to work more in the, in the session work world or indeed movies. What, what, what core bit of advice would you give them?

[00:48:34] Kerry W.: Research. Research. research, I think is, is the best to, you know, I, I mean, um, even in fashion and things like this, it keeps reverting back.

[00:48:44] Kerry W.: We keep on looking at different periods, different decades, different things. I think we've been through the 20th century about 10 times. Like a friend of mine said me, yeah, you've done this enough times. You should be able to get it right by now. . Yeah. Yeah. It's sort of like, how many times can we do sixties?

[00:49:00] Kerry W.: How many, but it is, it, it's, it's very important. I just did a movie recently called Grace of Monaco. Mm. Um, which I had to do sixties and emulate Alexander De Paris, who's one of the greatest hairdressers. And we filmed in France. I was as nervous as hell. I thought, my god, these French, these French people are not going to let me outta here like copying one of their icons.

[00:49:23] Kerry W.: Oh, I thought it was beautiful. Hey, you did that. Thank you. Thank you. But, um, anyway, it's very important to research and what, what you do, and then take that. And put it into what you're working with. Mm- hmm. you know, obviously I was doing my look on Nicole, but I was emulating what he had done on Grace Kelly or Grace Princess Grace.

[00:49:44] Kerry W.: Um, the thing is, and the director was very clever, he said, you know, I don't want you to copy it Hair for hair. I want you to take that as the inspiration and put it into our goal in, which is, I think, the correct way to do. Yeah, it does. So, cause there's different balances, different facial proportions and different things.
 
[00:50:03] Kerry W.: And also, you know, what looked sort of appropriate at one period doesn't necessarily look totally appropriate now. Yeah. You know what I mean? Even though the costumes and the times, it's all set in the things, you know, suddenly, you know, if you come up with a sort of 18 inch towering hairdo can look quite sort of strange, you know?

[00:50:23] Antony W: Mm-hmm. Do, do, do you have a favourite, um, era? Favourite decade?

[00:50:29] Kerry W.: I used to. Mm-hmm. It was twenties, but I think I got it out of my system.Yeah. Um, no, I do, I do, uh, uh, I, I like all, I like all periods, you know, I, I mean, I think it's great to get your teeth into things and, and sort of push your sleeves up and really get the nitty gritty of it.

[00:50:50] Kerry W.: Yeah. And I think that's what's exciting, because that's what keeps it interesting. Cause if you're constantly staying on one level and one and one train of thought, I think you can must get incredibly bored. Mm- hmm. I mean, I've never done that, so I wouldn't, I, I, I would think, Hmm. You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't like to, I like to sort of throw it in the mix.

[00:51:15] Antony W: Yeah. So, to speak. I, I, I know sometimes you work, you, you, you design the look for the film. Mm-hmm. , uh, and then you assemble a team of people because you physically can't do everyone on the set. Of course, of course. Uh, is there a bit, any particular frustration that you have of dealing with. Young hairdressers now who get on the set to do hair, is there any sort of common thing that you just wish that people today would, would, you know?

[00:51:39] Kerry W.: I think enthusiasm. Enthusiasm? Yeah. So, they lack enthusiasm. Yeah. I think a lot of people lack enthusiasm and, and I, I quite often thought maybe I'm intimidating. I don't think so. Um, you know, I'm not one of those people you can't come and ask questions to. Mm-hmm. I'm happy to teach. I'm happy to give people knowledge.

[00:52:01] Kerry W.: I'm not, I'm not to playing my cards close to my chest. I'm, I mean, I'm, I'm more than happy to give information and, um, and I think it's the enthusiasm that I find lacking in a lot today. Mm. Which I think, to me, We're in a great, great industry. We're very, very privileged industry so that we can have a wonderful careers, wonderful life, and, and do some amazing things and travel and, and do all these extraordinary things, you know?
 
[00:52:35] Kerry W.: Yeah. With a hairbrush, and, you know, hey, a lot of people. A lot of people, you know. Yeah. Can't do that Yeah.

[00:52:43] Antony W: Do, do you ever wish she'd done anything else? [00:52:46] Kerry W.: Want being a dancer? besides ballet dancer?
[00:52:50] Kerry W.: I don't know. I'm still learning hairdressing, so I don't, I need to, I need to get really comfortable with the right. I've had enough of this and then move on. Yeah.

[00:53:00] Antony W: so, you've been doing it for how many years? 50. 50 plus years.

[00:53:03] Kerry W.: Well, hang maybe age a little bit too much. No, I'm, I'm coming up, I'm coming up to my 50th year.

[00:53:09] Antony W: You're coming up to your 50th year. Yeah. You've worked on some of the biggest films in, in, in the last 50 years. Mm-hmm. you've worked on all the top magazines, you've worked with all the best photographers, all the best models, and you are still learning hairdressing. Yeah. It's a great attitude. Yeah. It's a fantastic attitude.

[00:53:25] Antony W: Is there ever anything has, has anyone, one person ever said something to you in life? Anybody. That had a particular impact on you? Is there any statement, any, any sort of, you know, thought that runs through you that sort of sits at your core as that is really important to hang onto? Um,

[00:53:49] Kerry W.: there's a few things actually. There's a few things that it's keep me going , keep me inspired, so to speak. Um, when I was a kid at Ernest Salon in, um, in Perth, there was this quite tough hairdresser who was working in the salon and uh, I was, I think like within my first few weeks of hairdressing anyway, and she was doing a chignon and things and I was quite nervous.

[00:54:22] Kerry W.: I was handing up. Like pins to her, and I'd obviously had the incorrect pin for what she wanted, so she knocked it out of my hands and said how you'd make more money on the street than the hairdressing salon. So every sort of chignon I do, I hope she, I hope she's still alive and I hope she sees it
 
[00:54:42] Kerry W.: Okay. So that, that, that, that gives me strict Yeah. So every, every chignon, in, uh, princess Grace said, I hope, I felt like, I hope you're looking at this Carol, what's her name?

[00:54:55] Antony W: Uh, you probably feel uncomfortable, um, you know with, with people sort of calling you exceptional. Um, and I have asked, wouldn't. Yeah, I, I've asked other people the same question when I've interviewed them on previous interviews.

[00:55:08] Antony W: Um, if there was one thing that, that made you exceptional at what you do, because you must be exceptional, uh, because of what you've achieved and continue to achieve, what, what would that attribute, what would that, you know, characteristic? What would that personality trait be?

[00:55:28] Kerry W.: Well, um, I, have to go back to passion, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I, I really, really enjoy, I enjoy those moments when I get up and go to work. I enjoy the, the excitement of doing something or having to stretch my imagination, having to do some research or, you know, uh, I'm being involved. And, and I think in the industry we are in, I think it, it keep, it gives you a youthful outlook on life.

[00:55:59] Kerry W.: And I find that's important as well, you know, to understand what's coming through from the younger hairdressers as well, you know, and, and basically hopefully be inspired by it. I, I'm, I'm looking for people to inspire me the whole time. Cause I love to be inspired. Mm. You know, and that doesn't necessarily have to be hairdressing, it can be fashion, it can be.

[00:56:19] Kerry W.: film, it can be photography, it can be a million things. You're part of, you're part of a career I've always, always said that the hair is a great accessory. You know, it's like having, like the girls struggle to have the right handbag at the moment. They'll spend their life savings on the latest handbag and the biggest bag or whatever it might be.

[00:56:42] Kerry W.: But I think it's just as important to have hair that gives you confidence as well. Yeah. You know, I think it's a great accessory. Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt Without a doubt.

[00:56:52] Antony W: Uh, what else do I wanna wrap this up with? Uh, what, where, what does the future look like for you? Where will you be in the next 10 years? Do you, do you ever think about retiring or was that just
 
[00:57:00] Kerry W.: No, no, no, no, no. I don't think about retiring. I think, I think they're gonna have to ship me out in a bag somewhere kicking and screaming. I, uh, why retire? Mm-hmm. Well, well, what'd you do? How excited am I gonna be going to studio? I'm, yeah. Not working. Yeah. You know, uh, I think that keeps me, like I say, inspired and excited.

[00:57:24] Kerry W.: And, uh, also, you know, I haven't actually quite finished what I needed to start, start out to do yet. Mm-hmm I've got a bit more to do.
And, and whether it's inYou know, I've always, always sort of, uh, you know, throughout my career done sort of little bits of workshops and things like this and, you know, and I, I think what is, I think is important, and I think it's more rare, a, as the years go on, is the art and craft of actual hairdressing.

[00:57:53] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. . And, and that's what I love to do, is to dress hair. You know, people are obsessed with cut and blow dry and things like this. And I think what, what has got lost along the way is a lot of hairdressing. Yeah. You know, the actual art of transforming that piece of fiber into something that's totally different.

[00:58:11] Kerry W.: And I, you don't have to do it, turn into a joke, you can turn into something beautiful or glamorous or sophisticated or sexy or whatever. But I think the art of the word hairdressing, and there's a great, one of my greatest, greatest icons in hairdressing is, um, uh, hairdresser called Sydney Guilaroff and he created all those looks for Hollywood in the, in that sort of thirties, forties, fifties, sixties, A absolute genius to me. He still inspires me every day. Mm-hmm.

[00:58:45] Antony W: And the amazing thing is, he didn't have the products that we have today. No. Thank God. He didn't have the tools that we have today, the quality of the dryers, the brushes. No, no. Et cetera, et cetera.

[00:58:54] Kerry W.: And those, you may, and those things are magic. Yeah. Et cetera. You, and, uh, and I think you can only sort of take your hat off to someone like that.

[00:59:02] Kerry W.: And that is, that is a true creative force. Yeah. I think, and, um, you know, we still use those lots today. Mm-hmm. You know, um, whether it's a broken down version or, or a heightened version of what he did, it's, it's still, they're still relevant. Yeah. And we're talking nearly a hundred years ago. Mm-hmm. Know, I mean, quite extraordinary.
 
[00:59:24] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. So, your little bit of advice before where you were talking about, you know, as a kid, At, at technical college being taught finger waves. Yeah. It's like everything, you need to learn everything. It's a craft. It's a craft. And you know, that will take you and if you want to work on film Yeah. And suddenly you're doing something and it doesn't have to be 1920s, you could, you could be doing something that's 18th century or, or Egyptian or whatever you need to know the art and the craft of hairdressing, I think.

[00:59:50] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. And I think it's in very, it's great to be able to just tap into it. It's, it's sort of like when, when you think of your ability before I ever worked or handled a computer or something, the mind is a computer, you know, sort of like you give your water and a comb and you have to create. And I think that's actually pretty hardcore.

[01:00:14] Kerry W.: And it teaches you to manipulate hair and what hair will do for you and what you can do for it.

[01:00:20] Antony W: So, so, so what is your greatest tool that you have? [01:00:25] Kerry W.: Well, I've gotta say a comb.
[01:00:26] Antony W: Right. I thought you were gonna say your hands. Yeah. Right. A comb Okay. I think, I think definitely. I mean, yes. Yeah. Okay.

[01:00:37] Antony W: Alright. Um, one, one thing I wanted to ask you about is often people who are very, you know, successful and you've been very successful for many years. You've, you've sort of, you know, mixed with a lot of very successful models and photographers and, uh, people in the movie business is, you must be exposed to a lot of temptation.

[01:00:54] Antony W: You know, it must be very easy for young hairdressers to go off the rails and you've obviously, um, managed to, to not go off the rails or, or if you have, you've disguised it very well. Um, what, what advice would you, the rails are down there. Talk to me about that. What advice would you give to youngsters about that?

[01:01:12] Kerry W.: Well, you know, the thing is, when I'm working in that industry, I know I'm there. Basically, I am Yeah. We're in a service industry. Yeah. We're there to make people look good and feel good. I've never ever assumed, I always thank God, when I'm staying in a lovely hotel that someone
 
else's expenses and things like this, and I'm like, oh my God, you know, this is, this is a dream.

[01:01:40] Antony W: So, you still feel like that?

[01:01:41] Kerry W.: Oh yeah. Yeah. I, I just come back from somewhere and I was like, oh my God. I'm staying on the 21st floor, this really fun place. I thought, I've gotta go home tomorrow. . . But anyway, um, cut to note. We're there, there's a, there's professional line. You are not those people. You don't have that lifestyle.

[01:01:59] Kerry W.: You're not, you are not the person, the actor or the actress or the model or whatever. You're there and it's, it's though I always stand back there, there's a professional line. I think, and I've never really. . I think what happens some, like some people I've known, they start to think they're a part of that lifestyle.

[01:02:24] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. you know, and I think that's your notch. You're basically there. But is that their undoing? It can be. Right? I don't think it's necessarily all of their undoing, but you know, it can be. I think you have to, I think you have to remember what you're doing cause and also the next day I've gotta get up and perform.

[01:02:43] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. So, I couldn't sort of like, go out on a, on a night of champagne and whatever. Mm-hmm. And then get up and perform because yeah. It just doesn't happen that way.

[01:02:52] Antony W: How, how much of that humility, um, work ethic, uh, whatever the right word is. Um, would you put down to your, um, your upbringing, your country upbringing?

[01:03:03] Antony W: You know, you’re so you know, the way you were brought up? Very, I, I mean, I've never been there, but I can picture what it was like. A simple existence with a lot of honesty and a lot of integrity and a lot of humility. And that forms you as to who you are. Doesn't it?

[01:03:16] Kerry W.: Also, I, I think growing up in a family that ran a business, you know, you have to be, you have to produce its supply and demand.

[01:03:27] Kerry W.: Yeah. And I think that's what I learned from my parents and my brothers and sisters and things like this. You know, the bread had to be
 
delivered on time. It had to be in the bakehouse, it had to be there. My dad was up at four in the morning to get everything ready, so everything would be in the stores at nine.

[01:03:43] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? And that's basically if I'm doing something, I'm always overly for work. I'm always hopefully prepared or prepped. I'd like to get there, even if it's going to do someone’s hair privately in a hotel room or something, or we'll get there beforehand.
Everything's set up. So, everything is where I know where it is on the table so I can tap into it, which allows me to be able to force to do the hair quicker.

[01:04:11] Kerry W.: Mm-hmm. Because I know where everything is. I'm not spending half an hour looking in my bag mm-hmm. Trying to find, oh God, I need that product. Where is it? Sure. I will have, hopefully have everything in front of me. Mm-hmm. And, um, that, that, that allows me to be able to do my job with the simplicity and the ease that I think it should be.

[01:04:30] Kerry W.: I don't, and I don't think hair should be torturous. I think hair should be a pleasure for someone. Mm-hmm. You know, and um, you know, if someone's sitting there scrambling around, looking through their kit or have left their dryer at home or something's not working, you know, you've got time to re-evaluate, call my sister and say, listen, can you get me a curling out over here?

[01:04:49] Kerry W.: This one's something. You know what I mean? So, you covered your Yeah. Basic, I call it old fashioned professional. Exactly.

[01:04:56] Antony W: Yeah. It's nothing wrong with that, you know. Yeah.

[01:04:57] Antony W: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fantastic. Well, Mr. Kerry Warn, unfortunately we have run out of time. Probably talked your thing, I would, I would just like to say thank you very much. A great pleasure too. Thank you very much, much. Uh, I know that there will be a, a lot of hairdressers out there that will listen to this and hopefully, um, some of them, the message that you have has inspired them to, you know, to move forward and to turn their dream into some of the things that you've experienced so,

[01:05:25] Antony W: and hopefully inspire people that not hairdressers to become ones. Exactly. You know? Yeah. We need you. Cheers, Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Cheers.,
 
[01:05:32] Antony W: Thank you for listening to today's podcast. If you'd like to connect with us, you'll find us at grow my salon business.com, or on Facebook and Instagram at Grow My Salon Business. And if you enjoyed tuning into our podcast, make sure that you subscribe, like, and share it with your friends. Until next time, this is Antony Whitaker wishing you continued success.