Mr. Jethro Jones: Welcome to a Vision for Learning.
I'm excited to have on the program today, Matt Choi, who's
the founder of Career View xr.
Matt, welcome to a Vision for Learning.
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Hey, thanks Jeff.
I appreciate being here.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Yeah.
So, first, why don't you tell us what people should look forward
to from our conversation today?
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: I think some exciting speculation about what's
coming in the world of learning.
Bridging the gap between the digital world and the real world, and creating
learning immersive learning spaces that have never been possible before.
I.
Mr. Jethro Jones: And you or someone who would know, tell us about what
Career View XR is and and why you're someone who knows about this space.
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Yeah.
So Career Vxr is we're an ed tech product.
It is a library of immersive field trip and job shadow experiences that
are all filmed in the real world.
And we use 360 degree media filming.
Real people performing real jobs in real environments to bring job sites
into the classroom through standard devices like desktop, tablet, mobile, but
also through virtual reality headsets.
And hopefully soon augmented reality headsets like the Apple Vision Pro.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Yeah.
So I've I've known you for a while now and you've been on my other
podcast, Transformative Principle, and one of the things that I really
appreciated about our conversation today is where we kind of rift on this
idea of creating a lab for anything.
Wherever you are.
And so I think that idea of being able to bring whatever you want
to you is really powerful and it's gonna take a lot of coordination
and collaboration between people to make those kinds of things happen.
And it's really exciting what people are gonna come up with over time.
So, I'll get to my interview with Matt here in just a moment.
Jethro Jones: Matt, talk to us about how you see the Apple Vision
Pro changing the landscape that you've been in for a while now.
Matthew Chaussee: honestly I think.
Apple Vision Pro and the inevitable chain of devices that are gonna be developed
to mirror it are gonna, they're gonna change the landscape for how we engage
with computers, how we engage with digital media just as much as the iPhone did.
It's gonna take some time, I think for that to happen.
But this era we're entering of spatial computing where you, when you have.
Apple Vision Pro.
You don't need a screen, right?
It your screen can be a virtual one.
You can have as many of them as you want.
You can create a movie theater in your living room and tune out everything
else that's around you visually.
For as long as you want to.
I mean, it's just it is, it's hard to speculate on what it will become.
Because a lot of folks, I bet even a lot of folks at Apple don't even know what
direction our developer's gonna take it.
What do, what are the things that users are gonna come up with?
It's gonna be a revolution in how we engage with digital media.
I.
Jethro Jones: I feel the same way and I feel like, right now the
price is out of reach for a lot of people, certainly for schools for
every kid to have one, of course.
But like, that may not be the point.
It may be an opportunity like when you do your stuff with career View
xr, like not every single kid has a device in that situation, right?
It's one at a time or a couple at a time and that's what.
What makes it valuable is that individualized attention.
Did I get something wrong there?
Matthew Chaussee: No I think there's definitely value in
that individualized piece of it.
But there, I.
I think that with immersive media, the delivery mechanism really depends on the
outcomes that, that you're looking for.
I mean, a platform like Career View XR can be viewed on standard devices,
you know, non, non vr, non AR devices.
It can also be viewed in immersive rooms like immersive me immersive
realities, walk-in rooms that where you can engage in a space.
But I think that the real differentiator was something like Apple Vision.
Pro is, yes, it is a one-to-one device, but it's more than just a viewer.
It is, it gives you an opportunity to interact with objects in your space.
It's mixed reality.
It's true mixed reality where the objects are within your space and it's kind of a
convergence of the virtual world and your real world and that's something that just.
You know, Microsoft had the HoloLens years ago, HoloLens two.
They've kind of, pulled back on their work there and what Apple's doing
with Apple Vision Pro is okay, it feels like light years ahead of where
it had been even just a year ago.
And I haven't even tried the thing yet.
I've only seen the video that they put together, but the enhanced field
of view all of those things it just.
I get the sense that this is going to, this is gonna build the same
sort of just passionate follower that's that the iPhone did.
Jethro Jones: So you've been in this space with Career View XR for a while, so why
do you feel like this is so different than like Medi Quest or whatever other
things have been out there already?
Matthew Chaussee: It's important to make a distinction between virtual
reality and augmented or mixed reality.
The initial versions of, you know, vibes, headsets, meta Quest headsets, those were
all virtual reality where you are looking at a screen that is basically making
you feel like you're someplace else.
Now MedQuest three has really good pass through and there, and I believe Vi
Vision Pro has passed through as well.
And those devices they're great.
For.
Able to kind of see what's in your world and en engage with
digital objects in your world.
I think the biggest difference is they have their own they
have their own ecosystem.
They have their own devices, but Apple Vision Pro it is the Apple Store.
All of your apps are accessible.
The ones you already know aren't, can now be consumed in this immersive way.
And I think that's the.
Biggest differentiator right now is it's not a separate marketplace or ecosystem.
It's an enhancement to Apple's already really strong ecosystem.
Jethro Jones: That idea is really powerful and I want to stay there for just a moment
because one of the things that I've we've been hearing about in the news recently
is that certain apps like YouTube and Netflix are not going to have a Vision
Pro compatible app on launch date.
You can still use it in.
Safari and so you can still access these things.
But then there are other apps like the cooking app that I just love, where the
developer is actively preparing a release for day one of the thing, the app's called
Crouton and just looking at his stuff on threads, I can see what he's doing and how
cool it's going to be to experience that.
And like he even showed a quick little demo of.
Walking through the steps of creating your meal in your kitchen and saying
like, okay here's my counter and here's how big of a pan I need.
What does that look like in my actual space, and how much is
this actually going to make?
Like, I don't know how far down that road he's gone 'cause he didn't show
that or anything, but just that idea of.
Like not even having the Vision Pro, let me just say this app has helped me be be a
better cook because of how it's designed.
That's not an insignificant thing, you know, and what this guy is
dreaming up for, how it's gonna interact with the Vision Pro, I
think is gonna be really amazing.
I can't wait to see what that's like and what that feels like
and what the experience is.
Matthew Chaussee: It absolutely and as you know, AI tools get more and
more developed and we've got 3D 3D animations and models that's, that
are powered by AI technologies.
Imagine now having a digital version of him who's standing in your space and is
able to observe and help correct you as you might be making, not measuring things
appropriately or using the wrong utensil.
I mean, there's also, it's not there yet, but that is where it, it will
get, I mean, we've all, we've seen the movies about, you know, the robot
helper that's in your space that does the laundry for you, that sort of thing.
And, you know, may maybe we'll get there too, but that's a
big piece of hardware, right?
Imagine now having something like that, but it's all digital
and it's just presented to you.
In an individualized way for the particular task that, that you're doing?
I don't think we're that far off.
From those sorts of things.
Jethro Jones: Okay, so get this.
One of my weaknesses that I really struggle with is
fixing anything in my house.
Like any mechanical thing I just suck at it.
It's incredibly, emasculating, is that the word?
Where it makes me feel like I'm not a man because I can't do it.
Like it's just, Matt, lemme tell you, it is tough.
So our washing machine broke.
I ordered a part that I thought was gonna fix it.
'cause I consulted with somebody and they're like, this is the part you need.
I ordered it, it came, it was totally different from the part that, it was
replacing, or that I thought it was replacing, and I was just so frustrated
that I just said, okay, we're just gonna go buy a new washing machine, 500 bucks.
Like it's worth it to not have to deal with this.
We've already been without a washing machine for a week and a half now, for me
personally, that's just my own weakness.
Right?
But then I was thinking like, what if.
I put this headset on and I call this guy on Zoom and I say, you look at what
I'm looking at and let's walk through this process together, and you tell
me what to do and where to go and how to like do these different things.
How incredibly powerful would that be?
To like we, because this is all going back to that idea of the
enhancement of the current offerings.
Because Zoom, like I can have a Zoom call and point out what I'm doing.
And what you don't get is you don't get depth.
It's all flat.
And with this, I imagine if I could, if I can point the cameras out and see
what the person can see, what I see, instead of just seeing the superimposed
face that Apple's gonna create.
If they can see what I can see, that would be incredibly powerful
to say, no, go two inches back.
That's the screw that you need to unscrew.
That's the part.
And then being able to like look at that part and doing a search like, like you
said with AI that says, okay, this is the part I see as we're doing this, I
saw the model number for your washer.
I see the part and I can go through this database and find
that specific part and be able to.
Show you exactly what you need.
Then pull up a video saying, here's how you replace this thing on your
specific model with your specific part.
Like, oh my gosh, Matt, that's just mind blowing to think I might able be, might
be able to repair things in my own home.
Matthew Chaussee: And so take that even a step further, right?
And watching, yeah, watching a video.
That's one thing.
But imagine the entire process can now be replicated in front
of your eyes in three dimensions.
What is, what?
What's.
Possible with these with spatial computing and this emergence of these
new technologies is that bolt or that screw that you're pulling out, you
can potentially tap on it and have it highlighted and it'll tell you.
How do you get what size is the bolt?
When you pull it out and set it down, where did you put it?
That
one of my achilles heels is, where the hell did I put the hardware
that I pulled out of this thing?
You know, granted you would have to, I.
It would have to if you moved it when it wasn't in your view, you would lose it.
But I bet they're working on a solution for those types things too.
But you could watch the entire process fold out digitally
before you even touched a tool.
I.
And yeah, that that's coming.
It's already here in, in an industrial setting.
There, there are workplace training programs, I believe that
have been done through HoloLens.
That's like Boeing Mechanics, being able to the intricate pieces and all of the.
Fittings and things that go into aircraft maintenance, being able
to watch and observe that, I mean, those types of things have already
been done at an enterprise level and it's coming for consumers now
too.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Matthew Chaussee: And that really, that's Apple's strength, right?
Is taking that enterprise level, the things that have been for corporations
and bringing it to the masses.
Jethro Jones: Yeah.
And the other thing that I was thinking about with with how they approach
this is that they are opinionated about how they design their solutions.
Apple is, right?
And so they say like, this is how you need to use it and
how it needs to be accessible.
Whereas, by taking that stance, they're saying This is
what we believe this is for.
I saw a video the other day of Facebook's meta quest or Meta Quest
three, having a video explaining what it could do and in a work
environment, which they haven't really.
Talked about a ton before and kind of in an answer to what what Apple is
doing, which is pushing productivity as a main use for this device.
And certainly there's a lot of consumption in there as well.
But they're talking about, you know, adding keynotes on
there and stuff like that.
And.
I'm curious to see how that works in practice and how, you know, the work
that I do on a day-to-day basis, will that be easier or more difficult or what?
And so I think about those types of things and how Apple's saying this is how we are
pitching it, and how we're viewing people using it as productivity and what that
means for the user and what they can do.
So there are certain limitations that exist by design.
Because they want it to be used in a certain way.
What?
What's your thought and take on that.
Matthew Chaussee: I I think it's gonna be the same as we've got the iPhone camp and
you've got the Android phone camp, right?
Folks who love Apple products, they love that it is a little more closed off and
they tell you here's how to best use it.
Whereas the Android camp is more, I want to kind of choose my own destiny
a bit more have more latitude with what we can do within, within, within
the devices, within the platform.
I think the same thing's gonna happen.
I mean, Vive has their XR elites that has really great pass through, high
resolution and does very similar.
It's on an Android operating system.
We're gonna have, we're gonna have the two camps, right?
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Apple's coming out with all of these.
The design is quintessentially Apple.
You look at it like, obviously that's an Apple device, right?
But.
Really it's gonna come down to the user and what their preferences are.
I certainly don't think that the Vision Pro is gonna be the
only headset people have there.
There are other great headsets out there.
MedQuest three is a good one.
The Vi XR Elite is a phenomenal pa headset with pass through.
But it's gonna come down to user preference ultimately, and I
think it's gonna kind of fall into the two camps again, the
Apple camp and the Android camp.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Yeah.
So I want to go back to something that you said before about this, you
gave the example of Boeing Mechanics and learning how to do things.
What's your perspective on how this will, this approach will impact
learning opportunities, not just, you know, at a high industrial
level like Boeing mechanics, but also on an individual basis.
We started talking about that a little bit, but I want to go spend a
little more time chatting about that.
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Yeah I mean, it's unprecedented, really, right?
You can, when you have this ability to interact with digital objects
in your space, you can create any number of more realistic simulations.
I know we've got a, a.
Company that we've worked, victory xr they've got a really great chemistry lab.
That's, I mean, thinking about a chemistry lab, that's not just virtual reality,
but imagine now that VR chemistry lab is augmented reality or mixed reality, where
you can lay out everything on your actual.
Not a virtual table in, in in a virtual space, but you have now it, and you
know, you pour and it flows just like it normally would and you're engaging
with it within your real world.
I think it, it provides all kinds of opportunities to convert
real world learning spaces into any sort of lab you might want.
I remember the magic leap years ago.
They had they were, they had all these advertisements and they were showing
the whale jumping out of the gymnasium floor and splashing down, and I was
like, oh my God, I want one of those.
How can I buy AEM Magic Leap?
I'm like.
No, they don't.
This, was a hype video that, that doesn't exist yet.
Those types of that conceivably does exist with Apple Vision Pro.
And inevitably the technologies that are gonna follow, I don't know if there's,
there is syncing with those things yet.
I think ultimately for classroom instruction, the ability to
sync all of those things and you are doing an experiments and.
All the, you've got these 3D models in front of you and everybody's vantage
point is, it's as if that object was there in the real world, right?
That's where it's gonna become incredibly valuable for education.
But right now, I mean, if it's a school has one of these things,
it's a student one-off doing their own thing as opposed to it being a
collaborative classroom activity.
And that's, it will get there.
It absolutely will get there.
There are already some really cool VR solutions that are doing that.
And it's just a matter of time before that progresses into the
augmented and mixed reality realm.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Here's the next piece that I wanna talk about,
because you, all these things are really cool ideas, but somebody has
to make those right and somebody has to create all the models and all the
graphics and all that kind of stuff.
You've been doing this for a while with Career xr, so you know what it
takes to create that kind of stuff.
How challenging is that and is it going to become easier?
Like is it just, is it going to be as easy as like filming these
things with a vision pro on and then being able to just replicate that?
Talk about the creation aspect of creating these types of experiences like.
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: I.
So it's a little bit of a mixed bag.
Just we, early on we kind of saw the writing on the wall that the hardware is
gonna continue to improve and improve.
And we need to be really mindful to not create content that is
tethered to one particular device.
And our path forward with so I'll talk about career View XR as an example.
And then we can kind of dive into to others.
But we create 360 degree media that essentially is, it's not an
interactive 3D object, it's an environment that you are within.
So, when that's being accessed on a standard device, it's like
a home virtual tour that you can spin the images around and you can
navigate and you can tap on hotspots.
When it's in a virtual reality space, it's a video that you are within and
you are completely immersed in one location, observing what a career is like.
Now we start to extend that to.
To the augmented or mixed reality arena.
The presentation of the content itself, it's still gonna be
a video that you're within.
You're not gonna be able to talk to the person that's in the video that we've
created, but with a mixed reality.
Device.
Matt Chaussee: Think about the interface menu, right?
It's, it is no longer, it doesn't have to be a flat screen that
you're choosing what you pick.
It could be a series of video orbs that are floating around your room,
like the planets, and you decide, oh, I wanna bring that one over to me, and
then I'm gonna put that one on and feel what it's like to be in this career.
That there are so many it's not just.
The content itself, it's how we engage and interact with the content.
That is the huge differentiator when we start going into this mixed reality realm.
It is digital content in your real world.
And I think that the companies that are gonna do really well in
that space, so the ones that are ready to like you talked about the.
Cooking app where the developer is already figuring out, okay, how do we use spatial?
Within this the companies that are thinking about platform agnostic content
that transcends the various pieces of hardware that it's accessed on those
are the ones that are gonna be doing the best in the next 3, 5, 7, 10 years.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Yeah I think that's a really important point
Also one thing that we can really.
Draw from as a benefit from what Apple has done, is you've been able to, for
years with your phone, see a thing in in augmented reality there in your space
where you can like, you know, from their Apple store, you can buy a, get a monitor
and see what it looks like in your space.
And that's actually been pretty nicely done.
I imagine, not a developer, but I imagine that they've probably done a
lot of that heavy lifting for you, that if you say this is the model and these
are the dimensions, then a lot of that, and you have a 3D rendering of it, a
lot of the other stuff of what it looks like here is going to be taken care of.
What?
What do you think there?
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Yep.
It absolutely.
A 3D model is a 3D model, and as long as it's right in the right file
format, it doesn't matter if you're viewing it through an AR app on a
phone, or it's loaded into a virtual reality app and you're viewing it in
v vr versus it's being placed on a table in front of you in augmented
reality through through a wearable device like, like Apple Vision Pro.
Really what's changed here is the, the.
infrastructure, the idea of digital objects being positioned
in space has been around for years.
What Apple's doing is they're creating a new window to see into that.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Definitely an area that I need to do more learning about.
The other thing that I'm.
That I'm thinking is when we sold our home in Fairbanks, Alaska, they used
a Matterport camera, a 3D camera.
Is that what you use also?
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: We had looked at using Matterport early on.
Matterport is a great solution for residential real estate tours.
And they were actually early stage when we got started.
We diverged from going down the real estate routes and really focusing
more on telling immersive stories.
So for what we do, our, ours is our.
Arena is 360 video that has action going on within the scenes, whereas
a Matterport camera is really more about scanning a a facility a building
A home that said scanning with a camera like Matterport,
that there's no reason that.
The models that are created through that or through like an enhanced
LIDAR scanner or the other hardware technologies that allow you to create a
3D space there, there's no reason that digital media couldn't be brought into
the environments that, that we view in a device like Apple, apple Vision Pro.
I don't know how true this is.
I, someone was telling me the other day that it was, I the.
Notre Dame was scanned with Lidar.
There was a 3D model that was created of it for the video game.
I think it was Assassin's Creed, maybe
that, that I am, this is like third or fourth hand, but, so someone's
gonna have to fact check this.
Ask asterisk.
But being able to.
Have a space like that, that then is used in the reconstruction of the
cathedral, if it's that accurate.
There are going to be things there, there's going to be digital tourism.
I mean, being able to bring the cathedral into your home and feel like
you're walking through it or a facet of
It's.
Put Michelangelo's painting of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel
on your living room ceiling.
These are the kinds of things that are going to be possible.
And it's funny 'cause we used to work in travel and tourism.
We did a lot of 360 degree photography and video and travel and tourism.
And there was a fear in the industry that, oh, if you do that, then
people aren't gonna wanna come.
And that's not the case at all.
What happens is they get a taste of it and.
You know, that someone who's really passionate about that
space or that experience, they're gonna wanna go have it in person.
It's just like, you know, if you love going to the Smithsonian,
you don't go once and you're like, okay, I'm never gonna go again.
I've been there, done that.
You go again and again.
And I think that there's a huge opportunity here to inspire interest in.
A world of locations that we've never been able to get access to before.
And do that as not just an immersive virtual reality space,
but as change your window.
I wanna look out my window and I wanna see Mount Everest
in real time.
I mean, those things are coming.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Yeah.
And in some ways they're already here.
Right.
And which is what you were saying before, that the Apple Vision Pro
gives a new window to look at that.
And so rather than having a live webcam view of something, you can
literally take that live view and make it your entire surroundings.
Which is just incredible.
Now in theory you can, I don't know if that is possible just yet, or if
somebody's gonna have a 360 camera live feed all the time that you can experience.
But that would be a pretty amazing thing to see and experience and
have as part of what you're doing.
So Matt, we've just scratched the surface really here.
And and obviously that you have a ton more information in your
brain that you could share with us.
But I appreciate you being here and and if somebody wants to get in touch
with you about what you're doing, what's the best place for them to go
to, to connect with you personally?
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Yeah, I go out to our website, www.careerviewxr.com.
We've got a contact form.
You can connect this out there or check out some free experiences.
Also feel free to shoot me an email directly at MATT at.
Career view xr.com.
I'm happy to riff on any of this stuff with folks because I,
this is all speculation, right?
It's it's gonna be crazy.
There are gonna be things that are gonna be happening that we can't
even imagine and love having these conversations and also getting ideas
for how do we make sure that the career view product stays stays on top of all
this.
Mr. Jethro Jones: Yeah.
Very cool.
Thank you so much for being part of a vision for learning, and it
was great chatting with you today.
Mr. Matthew Chaussee: Great.
Thanks Darro.