Office 365 Distilled

Oh dear, it’s been a long time since they had a full-length podcast and the boys do get rude. You have been warned. Steve even breaks out into song!!

Steve covers his Email strategy and how he uses the great features of Outlook to sort the email and suggestions for Microsoft to improve the ‘quick reply’ possibilities for emails. They then move on to the main subject entitled “Good Chat adoption plan can reduce emails”

Conclusions reached are to set up a Chat 1st Mentality across your business and don’t forget the etiquette rules ensuring that they are part of your training process.

Show Notes

Chats are shorter because they already have context but for emails, you often must provide the context so that people can understand the message.

Policies do need to be thought through about external access for Chats.  MS Teams and channel chats are OK as invitees are created as external users but not for Chats.

Marijn outlines the email problems with emails and the problems of losing control and treating the email string as a conversation instead of having… a real conversation.

Worth thinking about email as evidence of a decision made.  Chat can be less instinctive without the context, but the story of an email has a little more depth to describe the decisions being made.

Chat has some risks as it is not always so easy to see who can read the messages like in Email but of course, if we were all open and honest it doesn’t matter.

Chat tends to work the right and left side brains with great creativity tools.

Change program is required to drive a Chat 1st Mentality 

All the old rules apply across Chats as they do for emails, so CAPITAL LETTERS do mean I am shouting and to respond quicker than an email process. 

Marijn and Steve sound a little disappointed with the Jura 7 wood they taste at the end of EP87 but they are not, this was a very deep whisky with great notes at the end.

What is Office 365 Distilled?

This podcast is presented by Marijn and Steve; two experienced Microsoft 365 and SharePoint consultants. In each podcast you will get a smile or two with a chunk of interesting and practical help in Microsoft 365. Then you get introduced you to what we hope is a Whisky you have not tasted before.

Audio file



Mentions we are matured.

2nd collaboration

Has an artful but he delivered as value.

They will roll Steve Yoyoyo. Have you got tickets for tomorrow's world or something?

Put your hands down.

OK with your head.

I'm oof, I can live with yo Steve yo yo bro.

Yo yeah, exactly so there's there's there's. There's also that SharePoint, Yeoman generator, Yeoman generator yeah.

That's when you can say yo SharePoint yo teams and then you can make it do stuff. It's all very techie and I've got no idea what.

I'm talking about but.

OK, that's OK. 'cause I have no idea what you're talking about either.

I think it's a scaffolding thing, but I don't know what it's going to scaffold so anyway.


I guess there's nobody else in the house 'cause the cat has come to say, hey, give me a head rub.

Just want to say you got ***** on.

Your lap Oh no. Yes I do have.

I do have her. My daughter doesn't catch this one should go.

That's our cat. Ah.

But that's fun, all right so?

We are back to normal.

Yes, that means we are ending.

With a whiskey.

It does and we are going woody. We're going woody. We're going island hopping into Scotland.

Yep. Yep Yep Yep.

We're doing that so we we are going to hit a whisky from the Isles and.

And not highly, but from the aisles. The one that's been in multiple. Yes next door. That's true. One that's been in multiple wooden barrels.

Next door.

So yes, what I'm expecting is is something quite complex. Yeah, I've no. I've not tasted it yet, but that's what we're doing.

No me neither.

All right?

But before then, yeah, talking about technology we're going to.

Do I can't remember the last time we talked about technology, no.

We've been talking about app, car and change in adoption.

And stuff like that, so yeah.

I have to.

Say I loved that series. I really did. I know it. I know this part of me said hey, we got to get back to normal, but actually it was really very very good.

Yeah, and if you haven't go to click on the link that says go to the Barcelona pages.

And you'll see all of them straight off the website. All nine episodes. If you go there now, you'll find there's one missing, but in a few days time.

Well, actually by the time this is released, they'll all be there. All right. So yes, eight of them on add car and distilling change and adoption maturing.

All of the add cost stuff and then we have finished off with the whiskey only episode. Our first.

Ever Whiskey only podcast where we try to identify and remember with the professionally tasted whiskeys than Barcelona. We didn't drink them, we professionally tasted them.

Exactly, yeah.

So that's cool.

But now we're.

Going to go back to tech.

Yes, yes.

With MS Teams in this case.

Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly.

Well, I suppose strictly.

Speaking it could be Skype for.

Business, it could be a Skype for business, it could be slack.

Thank you.

It could be. Yammer could be yeah well the the classic SharePoint newsfeed.

Ah, well, let's stick in our area, but yes, in terms of those ranges.

Could be. Basically we're going to look at chat and getting chat and messaging right? And how actually I'm just going to read it off the board. Yeah, a good chat.

Adoption plan will naturally lead to less emails exactly, and to be honest we all need less emails.

Yeah, there's an hour.

Lost minimum for me? You know, just catching up with what came in the day before and responding to the questions and the ongoing email conversations.

You somebody that just looks at your email like three times a day? Or do you just have it open constantly and see what's popping in all the.

It's communication, so yeah, tend to because the other thing is that I know if I don't do that then I'm going to look at 70 tomorrow or 80 or 90 and all of a sudden there's two.

Yeah, yeah.

100 Yeah, you know. But saying that might using Microsoft techniques with you know they're they're two different kinds of folders.

What do they call it? Like you forgot the name of it now, but you know, the yeah, they're not so important.

Really important and the rest yeah.

What do they call it?

The focus and the focused inbox on the other one, so I've I've got that well trained now by you know you just need to drag the emails into where they're supposed to go.

Yeah, exactly.

To so I can effectively now go to my junk email knowing what's going to be in there. So that's generally a delete, delete, delete, delete or even a control a delete so I just scan through them, but then my unfocused boxed. That's usually a delete, delete, delete cheque, cheque, delete, delete, cheque, cheque, and that's a relatively quick.

Process as well so that my inbox is relatively focused, so I I kind of know that I.

Need to go look at that one. Yeah yeah.

It's just tasks that remain OK.

Yeah, but of course.

As consultants working for other companies, we end up with multiple inboxes.

Yes, so right now my outlook email's got 6 inboxes.

Wow, and it's pretty horrible. Yeah, so I was. I was in a meeting earlier and I actually asked the person to what email address did you send that? Because I'm it's I've got three email inboxes from just working with that customer. Amazing amazing.

I have multiple machines with their inboxes on them, of course from the different customer.

So yeah, there we go.

Yeah it is, it is.

Useful at some point it's got all my email in one application and now we've got tonnes of.

Well, not tonnes, but we've got a few really nice new things coming in into outlook as well. Like the suggested replies, is one I really like, yeah?

That's true.

I like that.

Read it.

Till you hover over it and it says click on here to start your message with these words.

Words you know, and so you you still end up doing, but they've just copied it from LinkedIn, of course.

Yeah yeah. And also the teams mobile application had that for quite some time as well, so so it's it's also coming to the teams client.

It it yeah.

So I I see that it's also coming to the teams client.

Yeah, through the Windows application as well.

Error free recipes.

I I kind of.

Part of my creative brain says do I really want all my emails to say thank you for that message and then I have to add something to the end of it, you know or people are going to work out going.

Oh yeah, he's just press the button. This is not a personal email. Why should I bother reading it like he's just pressed the button?

Yeah, what what we actually need is a like feature on emails. So instead of you replying saying OK or thank you for that message, you could just say yeah cheque, yeah exactly yeah.

I agree with that entirely.

Heart thumbs up. Big smile, laugh my socks off.

Yeah, that would be something funny, yeah?

What we could do, what?

Would be nice in email is office drama.

Stickers, yeah, what the ****

He's serious.

Yeah, that was refused.

That would be funny. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

But we've got those things that.

I I do like the idea of just being able to go like without having to open it without having to reply without having to do that. Just sit there and drop down and and do the appropriate emoticons. Yeah?

And then that would save no end of time. Yeah, but would that make it kind of more confusing?

Would it be trying to build email up into something? It's not.

Not because the thing I mean we're going to start referring to the board in a minute, but one of the things we looked at start off with was, you know, what is the difference?

If you like what are those emails and chats and stuff so we could kind of define what our adoption and awareness and stuff would be. But we're very clear that when you do an email, you have a story.

You know you have to put in the email the beginning, the middle, the end. So if we're certainly going to say I can respond with an emoji.

That says thank you or I like that or something, then is that actually not the email way. This is the way of the email, you know. Like some eastern kind of religion, yeah?

Go through Confucius. Say this is the way of the email.

The way of the email is not.

Emoticons. You gotta go and tell the story.

Ah well, maybe maybe this, maybe this yeah.

I don't know, it's just it's just thought. But I agree with you.

But how many how?

I have the same feeling.

Many emails, do you get that is just one sentence?

I can say if it needs at least.

10 to 15% of the email that I get in a day is just one sentence.

Speaker, it's lying to me saying yes, that's a.

Ah, replies, yes, but they people are also the ones that want the emoticons. Yeah, exactly so, but that's I was thinking about this as we started working through this earlier today and I've always kind of been taught, and maybe it's a sign.

Good idea yes, yeah.

And the times you know we're not millennials we matured is that you know we were taught that an email is the same as a memo.

You know, in the IT has to.

Be correctly a memo. I know I have real.

You have paid.

I'm not that mature.

Yeah, but.

But that's the kind of equivalent, isn't it? It's a memo, so it was always a report or a document. So your email.

Yeah, it's like a letter in the in the physical mail, yeah?

It's the same equivalent, so your email has to be written with the same care and concern you know. But of course we don't have the time and it got quicker and maybe that's why chatter messaging came out because.

Exactly, yeah.

You know the generation went look, I don't want to write a story every time I.

No exactly, and that's probably also why emojis got all hot in happening for the last few years through because we're just digesting so much information and we need to do so much in so little time that this might just save us just a little bit.

Send an email.

True, but it's not just about that.

What are these called?

Emoticons, yeah, isn't it a way of actually adding emotion to something that is generally sterile in words?

So so you you have hearts and thumbs often, and whenever you do a thumbs up to somebody, you're not just saying, OK.

Yes true yeah.

I agree no. You say yes.

Yeah, she Gary, he's you know you should sack him with a little bit of a.

Exactly, it's like me sending the eggplant emoji to my girlfriend.

Or or is it? Do you not? Do you not send the the champagne with the burst in top?

OK, no yeah OK.


OK, so anyway there there is a hidden series of of cultured words with these emoticons.

Yes, yeah.

Yeah, I know I.

Yeah, of course, how old you are depends whether you care so. But yes, they're about emotions, and so I think that's where the word comes from.

OK, let's yeah.

So you can kind of say in a few words I like that or I don't like that I was talking to somebody in the chat world, I know. Yeah, we're getting started on it, really.

How difficult is it in chat to tell somebody off?

You know you sit there.

Oh super easy because, well it no. It kind of depends in the chat room. If you go to Reddit or something.

You do you just say?

It depends. Didn't take you long.

Yes, yeah, I know. But if you go to like a threaded chat room or an online forum it is so easy to get distracted and it's so easy.

To tell people to F.

Yeah, but that's not we're talking about professional messaging here within the office. Let's be fair and you know, now there's an add-on licence you can get to Microsoft 365 that corrects.

Oh OK, that was catfish.

The **** *** Lisa.

This yes this no the non FCK off licence so it basically makes sure that all of your you know the politically correct stuff we've been talking about. Now you can add that on to everything so that it gets covered.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, so if you would just type in, oh go **** yourself you wonky ****** then it would actually translate the text in transit to. I'm sorry I don't have time.

And I don't really. I don't know where to.

Dear Sir, would like to inform you.

That would be brilliant. That would be brilliant.

Oh well, so.

So, So what what?

Did you tell them to do? Can you remember?

They'll be going back to that so, but but it is that it is difficult in a in a chat to actually.

Politically correct to tell somebody off, yeah.

Yes you do.

Need the context of the story in that meeting that we had today and we started talking about X&Y.

I really felt that you moved into a space that many would feel were inappropriate. You know and didn't make the company look good in front of those customers. You know when you started including the story of and I was really offended.

By and wow yeah you lost me halfway. Yeah yeah, OK.

Got a terrible story.

But but you can't sit there and say something bad to somebody in two seconds without wondering whether they're going to get offended or not.

Yeah, and just eggplant.

I really need to. After this you will tell.

Me all about the eggplant emoji.

I know it's the same thing as a champagne bottle. Yeah, yeah, so.

Oh OK, that's great so, but the office drama allows you to do that. I really quite like this so you know the guy that is is in the office drama that's going.

At least you can sit there and go. You know, John, you made me angry because you did this and and instantly part of the image says.

Oh, you're angry.

Yeah, whereas so yeah, you know, yeah you just you get to put in more feelings in through the thing. But it's also leans. It's also less official and it's more water cooler in level, yeah?

Feelings such a lot of fun.

It's not as as you just give your example of that email. If you do it in chat, it would just be more a junk that was not good. That was not cool. Whatever that you say, instead of giving that whole posh reply of yeah.

You're right.

Formal email.

But when you when you have something when you're trying to teach somebody, or when you're trying to get them to consider something, are you kind of not wanting to catch the fallout so that you know they don't go at home angry and then respond with a, you know? Yeah, you always. You can't do that with chat necessarily.

No, I'm just muting a few things on the board here because it's about to.

It's some of the yeah the outro which was on a mission, you know, because we're still on we're still on the Barcelona short form all right well.

We're ready.

OK OK good.

Look God we.

We we basically have that statement, so a good chat adoption plan is kind of less emails. Yeah, so would.

You ever get?

To the scenario where you did not.

Put chat in so would you say hey, we're going to adopt Office 365, but everything is going to be email?

You wouldn't, would you?

I know.

Now, no.

That question wasn't on the board.

Think so. No, I don't think I'm. I'm just thinking of.

It's just much.

In my head.

Of which one of my customers would it make sense to just do formal email and leave chat out?

I don't think any. I think it's now and my point of the question really was to kind of identify that it is a new normal.

Yeah, yeah.

That it is there, but it hasn't replaced email, so and it's not anymore work.

So you don't say what is less work, and I think that's the whole point that I was trying to talk about earlier when we had this conversation that by putting a good chat adoption plan in, you naturally end up with less emails because you choose the alternative to reply with. Yeah, at this.

No, it's less work, yeah?

Somebody writes a chat in teams to me and I don't see it in time, so team sends me an email that somebody chatted to me in team.

That is true too, but when you click on the link you do go.

Straight to the chat. Oh yeah no.

It just shows me the chat and I can directly reply from email, but still yeah, but no that was just me trying to be funny, huh?

Now is another another funny one then to to ask so you can try again. Now I'll ask another question, do you think that email will ever disappear? No.

Oh well, that was quick.

Yeah, no, I don't think so like.

10 years ago.

You had like big consultancy companies like.

Mgte announcing to the world in two years time, we will not send emails anymore, so we're all going to go full chat based.

Then no, of course, not no.

Of course, now that's true. I also had some feedback today as well around the chats because we've been selling the MS Teams persistent chat.

So you get that contextual chat, but it's it's maintained forever, of course, so you forever there so you don't have to kind of find the email that was sent two years ago and then the one that was sent.

18 months ago, and you know then, that kind of stuff and and so in that that chat. But then they were suddenly saying, yeah, we had this persistent chat, but I can't see off of it now because it was with an external.

And our policies kind of say yeah well you get to share it while you're in the meeting and when you're not so and that it was.

Oh, that's weird. That's not what you said. Yeah, no, I agree with you. We didn't go into that much detail, but it is an important part of the process that chat.

And it is controlled in terms of, you know, labelling sensitivity, you know, sharing and then during the meeting when you are allowed to share stuff, you can see it.

But of course it may not be there when you go back historically, because you know there's some policy that says their chats are not allowed to be shared.

When your server blah blah blah.

So something there are few more things to think about around.

Yeah, yeah.

This yeah all right, so let's put some structure in our session. So title of today. Good chat. Adoption plan means less email so that that entails two things.

One is we need to talk about adoption of chat and we need to talk about.

Is chat a good replacement for email?

But I think it's.

Worth talking about the stuff that we talked about even before then, which is where where you said why, yeah, you know why?

Why do we actually think chat is better than email and then we started talking about what actually is email and chat? But I think there's some good interesting items there. We've already talked about 1:00 so you know emails you.

You do have to put context into the email 'cause it stands alone. Yep, and so you know one silo equals one email or one email sort of reply journey.

Yeah, there's, there's no real collaboration 1 to one on this kind of stuff, you know, and you have this great video.

Yeah, the it's a video that I've been showing to a lot of people for last.

Six years it's called business practises that refuse to die #44 and it all talks about email trees. It's from Finn Jones.

And it talks about a person emailing 5 people to make a decision and in the end there's 66 emails being sent across. While this could all be in one chat conversation.

Yeah, and and.

That's simplifying a little bit of both. After the email doesn't identify the video, sorry, does identify those known issues with emails.

I send this email to you 5 but you have no idea where they're forwarding it to and and then you know that person suddenly ends up as part of the conversation, but nobody else even knew that they were there.

Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, and we've I'm fairly certain you are high because we're fairly transparent and open. I've been in a situation where we said something in an email and somebody folded it on somebody else and it because then it became inappropriate and then you get a reply back saying what do you mean? Publisher and you go? Actually, you know I now have to apologise. I did not.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, because then it.

Yes, but you should see this.

Got taken out of context thread, yeah?

Now they were still out. What it didn't really matter how I what context they were, but yeah, you're right.

So you know your opinion about something may well wind somebody up and start a conversation. Yeah, and equally I had my boss couple of days ago, you know was copied in on a series of emails where we were trying to understand something.

Around security, and eventually he stepped when guys stop, you know, set up a meeting and talk about it because you're not going to get anywhere with the email and you do get drawn into this 'cause you don't realise how you know silly this is going because you're now inside it.

So you have the context. From there it was quite funny and yeah, so yeah, so that's why emails you know they're not real time.

I know that that kind of feels like it's a bit silly, but they're not really real time and we don't send them expecting a response immediately.

No, we expect.

Definitely these days it used to be different. Five years ago. Five years ago when I send an email, I kind of wanted to get a reply within the hour.

Or yeah, these days it's OK if I.

Get a reply tomorrow.

Yeah, but you also do get.

That people that say why?

Why have you not turned up today to the meeting? I emailed you yesterday. OK, yeah, yeah, just because you send it doesn't mean I actually.

Read it exactly.

Yeah, well I get it. Yeah alright so no. So that explained to us kind of why we create emails and obviously it's historic and all that kind of stuff and they fight.

You can get replies from all over the place and I I always like the statement that when you send an email, you don't.

I don't need anymore.

So you know I, I'm now taking this information over to and giving it to you. So my version of the truth is now different to your version of the truth.

I love that I love that. Yes, that is cool.

Yeah, so again things to be to be careful of, yeah.

I also love the the thing that you wrote on the board. It's an an email, is evidence.

Yes, so it tends to be.

Kind of ties.

Into that one as well, that it's. It's the evidence that something was said or that something was done.

Yet, or you had notification of it, even if you've got 1000 emails unread and it was one of those thousand, not my fault.

Governor, you add it in your inbox somewhere yes, but no it is. It does actually, as you say, identify that and how many times have.

We said but.

It said that in the email and you go, no it didn't and you.

Go I.

Oh yeah, yeah they did.

Because his emails tend to be very long and fluffy, yes.

I only read the 1st 5 lines and then I assumed and knew what else she was going to say so I didn't.

Go any further joint.

My fault, badly written email governor. Yeah, but the reality is that we yeah we don't have time to read 75 lines of an email.

Now so the emails are also just stored in our outlook.

Uhm, they're not stored wherever the rest of the project is.

True, so that's that's one of the biggest advantages that I can think of in teams is that I got all my files or my tasks or my conversations all in one place.

They don't you.

Know you don't. You don't why not? If I have an MS Teams with channels and I have documents in those channels, yeah, and then the documents are stored in the libraries on the SharePoint site.

I don't care about the SharePoint site, it's all in my teams application as an end user. It's all there in one place.

It's surfaced there, stored elsewhere.

Yeah, it is no exactly, but as an end user I don't care where it's stored, it's all there.

Yeah, you're right. From that perspective, that's fine I get.

It OK cool.

Kind of.

Right, I mean I'm thinking techie, I get it. I'm thinking I'm thinking governance and security here going. Yeah, actually I don't trust it to be where you and you can delete it and only I'm keeping it centrally where I can control it, But I'll make it look like your own it. Yeah, I'll fool you, I lie.

Yeah, yeah.

OK well.

So chat chat.

Is, I think a really good way of reducing the amount of email that we get, but it's not only just reducing email, it's also just making communication better.

Makes communications it's a.

Yeah, because Mill is not always the best place to do something. Just like your boss saying.

Just set up a meeting and.

Talk about these things.

Sometimes a meeting is better than emailing. Sometimes a phone call is better than emailing.

Sometimes chat is better than emailing.

Well, it is really important to choose the right medium of communication, isn't it? So you, regardless of whether you're just trying to reduce the emails, but we are.

Trying to reduce emails 'cause there are better ways of doing things. Yeah, some things in email, but that's part of what you also need to know and so it might be worth bringing in that dreaded word governance. Because this is about Office 365 distilled and we do talk governance quite a lot.

So yes, so there's I mean I'm going to throw some words out here and we can talk about them, but, you know, etiquettes, the language of your chat, the voice that that you're using at the time, understanding your audience and the medium that they look at and use, and also understand that you know people in the chat.

May not actually be people that you think are in the chat because you know, well, if you're sending an email, you can say, hey, I'm sending this to John and Susan and Moran and Julie. So when I send that email, I know it's going.

To those four people.

OK, but if I'm actually in a channel.

And I start talking about that subject. I then may look at the people on that Channel and find that actually there's 25 people I didn't even know was a member of that team.

Oh OK, yeah yeah well.

Because we don't see them unless you actually go and look at who's a member of the team. So you know when before you sit there and say, you know that Julie really is a piece of work and don't you think she acted inappropriate? Might be worth just checking whether Julie is a member of that team or not.

Exactly, yeah.

Said say you can't.

Which also happens on email threats. I just had that happen a few weeks ago where one guy since the.

The other, yeah, but you should talk to your good friend of communication to our best friend and then two days later that best friend wrote an email.

Don't forget that I'm also part of this mailbox so that.

Was like an.

Ellipse moment for those people but yeah, but no so that that can happen in in in email as well, but.

Definitely more prone to happen in in teams.

Yeah, well at least you can right? And you can say look legitimately.

I sent it to those four people here. Yeah but but but but I get it. So do understanding the audience.

You can't just jump into a chat, say whatever you want to walk out again, you still do needs to have that level of thought.

To make sure that it's the right place, we talked about it. I argued with you and as I always do and I counted and say, you know, if if you want to send something to me, do you think about whether you're going to do it in an email?

Or do you think about your doing in teams? Or would you just open WhatsApp 'cause you know that's what we talk about all the time and you said no. I think about it.

Yeah, and I kind of counted and went well. I don't. I just send everything. I mean I sent that PDF to you by by WhatsApp.

You know when you went, yes, but when I tried to open it on my phone it was so small I couldn't even read it.

I hadn't even thought about that. I was just thinking that you've got it and you'll have easy access to it and.

And then yeah.

Yes, you know that's right. I kind of went over the wall, then jump down.

Yeah, accessibility.

Being irrelevant, I've sent it governor.

So yes, we still just because chats are easier doesn't mean that you can. Actually, you know not think about some of those legal lines and all that kind of stuff. So let's just talk about why chat is easier. OK, why naturally does it reduce mail assuming?

That we're talking about adoption, but I think it's worth, you know, putting those pieces of information in for everybody to get into one space.

Is contextual, so the chat is part of a titled chat group channel from a team you know. So when you actually write one sentence, that sentence has got a relationship with the fact that this is about how you know exactly Project X or or governance so.

Projects, yeah.

It it has got that context and it's always part of a conversation with the timeline.

Yeah, so I know that if everybody having a chat at the same time, some of the timelines get a bit skewed, but generally you can start logically going from one to another and see all of the the content and information, whereas an email that went to three people to start off with and then somebody forwarded it to a fourth and then those three people replied and.

And blah blah blah. Then the context within an email can get very screwed.

Up very quickly.

Exactly that, the timeline is so much easier to follow in a in a chat conversation than if you scroll through an email that has been replied and forward.

Other than all those things.

And I think we can do left brain right brain easier with chat, so I think that's pretty neat. So yeah, you know I can drop in gifts and you know all kinds of visuals and pictures for fun if nothing else. And just to clarify things, I I have a a great change consultant I won't mention.

Her name because I wanted to embarrass and I'm not entirely certain whether she'd appreciate it. She's very, very good.

I really am enjoying working with this lady, but she came up on MS Teams the other day and looked like Edna out of The Impossibles. No, the the Disney cartoon.

In oh.

Animals, yeah, Edmond was the lady that made all the British had these big black glasses on and I said there you look like her and we couldn't remember the name and I'm going, you know at the cartoon but she was able to respond later with a picture saying oh you mean Edna?

Yes yeah yeah.

Yeah, that's a compliment, she says I.

Like that I can.

Be Edna, but that visual just was instant soon as I had that message.

Come in, I knew, yeah, that's who we were talking about because it had gone to the right side of the brain and it was creative and.

You know, I said oh, so I. I then responded with all the good things about Edna that she can now I said look, this is now your second slide for all your presentations. You know my clients think I'm like Edna.

And these are the reasons why it's true, you know. So it's really pretty cool. Cool, but so yes, I think also it is easier to add that multimedia and then we can of course add multimedia in emails, but for some reason it just doesn't feel right because we go back to that email. Being a memo or a document or a report, it's all about.

Words, unless necessarily about the fun things that gives and.

As attachments, let's not forget about attachments, yeah?

Now let's not do that. Alright, so do we? We agree that if we get chat right and we have a good adoption plan that there's a natural tendency for email to be reduced.

Yes, but that doesn't mean it will happen overnight and the users can instantly go. Oh right, I'll start using chat now. We still need to have a change programme.

We need to have a change in adoption plan.

Yeah we do.

Yeah, so we actually need a change in adoption methodology for that one.

If only we knew one UM.

I'm sure if we did some podcast searches, we'd possibly come across something. Yeah, I think we need to go to Barcelona for a strategic chat.

I think so too. Yeah, let's do a whiskery a visit, and maybe we'll find something in the long row. Spring Bank for bottle, yeah?


Right there yes 3. Spring banks later we might come up with a concept that's been around for 20 years. Yeah, but we should also tell people if you haven't caught the the Barcelona podcast. Whiskery is growing, opening a new place.

Getting a lot bigger. It was a beautiful little cosy bar, a couple of metres across but a bit more than a couple.

But yeah, so that's said growing, so we should go back just to see their plans. So we're talking about car ad.

Yep yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

Actually, can you what else?

Could you do with this crab Crowder?

Oh no.

Raked rake

Good or bad car that would.

Are all.

Be good that car that's that sounds sounds like.

And now and now we know exactly what it means. As you said in the one of the podcasts are now.

Yes, the first day is availability. No, it's awareness. And yes of course.

No, it was, yeah so. So let's think about that in the context then of chat. So awareness, desire, knowledge. I thank you and reinforcement.

Brilliant and actually building that model because that model will help you.

Encourage people to use chat over email and that's what you really want to do. If you can help it.

Because it is about collaboration, and collaboration is about more real time than email, and it's about getting the right message across in the context.

Yeah, so I can walk away from a subject and not worry about it for a week and then I can go back to it.

Knowing that all the chats and all the content is already for me to start thinking about or working on that item.

Yep alright so awareness, awareness yeah. So we need to make everyone aware that this is a.

Good way of communicating so I would definitely show people that video on business practises that refuse to die. #44 I would definitely do that. That's it.

Whether you can do better than this folks.

Yeah, exactly so this is your daily life. Yeah, because everyone always laughs at that video because they all know that this is something that's happening all the.

The time, so yeah, you need to make sure that they know it's available the.

Other thing is that we need to remember that awareness is about telling them you need to change and that you are.

You're going to change because you're now going to start using this new tool called chat to actually communicate with people.

And only use email under the certain conditions. And of course you will document the governance and the etiquette and.

The best practise, yeah?

You can say we as a company we want to implement a chat first mentor.

Quality because of its charter and we get more context, we get less I.

I love that that first mentality.

Don't know yeah all these things.

Yeah, no, I think that works and and that and you know.

Yeah, sustainability.

Really, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you're just saying that 'cause everybody saying that.

Nowadays yes exactly. Yeah, yeah.

OK, that's

And otherwise the terrorists will win.

That's true, yes. This this is all good ways of actually moving towards desire and desiring that yes, I now need to send chats instead of emails to save the trees.

It's something like that, yeah?

Yes, and reduce the greenhouse gas.

Yes, yes exactly yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

So so going through the awareness, then we need to make people aware that it's available.

All right aware that they need to change and using those kind of communication stories like chat 1st, I'm going to steal that by.

The way.

Sure, I am going to steal that. I like that chat.

1st and and then making people aware that you know they need to think about that. And I think once they've seen it and used it, then have the desire.

Yeah, so identifying that desire is, you know, well communicated, well communicated governance and all the advantages of it. And then it's it's an easy sell.

I think so as well, yeah?

So yeah, you just need to focus on the on the on the benefits that a chat culture will bring, not just you chatting to people or other people chatting to you, but just the whole chat culture inside our company.

Yep, that's true.

Yep, that's true, and at this point when we get to the desire, we also now can identify.

The detractors and why people won't want to start using chat.

I mean, of course there are those kinds of people that do write to write a book for every email that won't be able to do that with with chat. So I I just don't like it's in this world.

But, and I think that's when we get into the kind of knowledge area. So the K for college.

The canola change yes.

And with the knowledge.

And because we basically now need to start answering all their questions and their reasons for not wanting to do this.

Yeah true.

Yeah, so mocha. We talked about the Mocker framework here with Microsoft because.

Yeah, the modern collaboration framework Yep.

And and that's going to basically give you a list of what these tools are used for and where you should use them, because there's obviously MS Teams chat. But as we said earlier, there's Yammer chat.

There's page comments. Yeah, you know, there's a.

Yes, the.

Number of places to do this, yes.

The new seat there's yeah. There's so many places exactly so we need to get that well known by everybody.

Yeah well knknown well God yes. So we need to train people as well or just not only on on how to start a chat or how to do chats, how how to put chats in the right context. But also around that those etiquette rules. One of those famous.

Welcome out.

Etiquette rules, for example, is don't start your chat with hey Steve, detect it now. Just drop that. Hey Steve, because I'm already chatting to you so you already yeah.

I think that's true.

Except that I might want to do at Steve.

Uh, when we're in a channel with other people, yes, then you might want to do a mention. Yes, yeah, if I want.

You want to be able to highlight that so.

You to do something, yeah?

Yep, now if I just want to say I want to make.

Sure, you read.

This yes it's not just for actions. We had this conversation earlier. If I want somebody to do something.

I will create a task.

Make it adults yes.

And actually, it's really good now you can right click on one of those chats and say, turn this into a task and so you need to mention them and then right click and turn it into a task because it's all about power and control and I will make sure you know I want you to do this and do can you shout still in chats?

Do you actually, you know, have to put everything in capital?

Letters when you yeah.

All caps.

So you still shouldn't do that.

Yep, so etiquette rules describe your etiquette rules. Make sure everybody knows them. Yeah, it's a good.

One yeah, and what I do tend to use now in chats, is bold and.

And I tell.

So I you know when I want to kind of just give them, they can glance over 5 lines of a chat and see the keywords that I wanted to pull out so that they could insert.

Oh yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Here's a tip, so if you're creating a new chat in MS Teams, obviously when you highlight a word you get the pop up menu to make it bolder Italian, you don't get that.

In reply.

But if you do control B or control I.

Yeah, when you open up that the the the replied.

You can make it.

You can't open up in the in the reply.

Now you've got me thinking.

Anywhere, oh OK.

Want to cheque though yes so.

Yes, once the cheque later on.

When you reply to the.

Message I don't know whether you can expand the.

Full reply box.

I something I will look at tomorrow, but anyway, but even if you don't open up the the full box with the bold, you do get the little popup menu with bold and italics like you do in Word.

Think so, but OK.

Let's look that up, yeah?

In reply, that doesn't appear, but I have found out you can do control B and control I so the control characters work, which is cool.

OK, so so yeah, so the training is important. I think there's lots of little stories around you know and and little little materials here.

How to you know how to do Qouted chat well man?

So I think, uh, something to do for etiquettes training is that you could actually show people like.

And the more fun stuff.

Uh, wrong email 5 wrong chat texts where something was wrong, like for example all caps.

All caps might be. Yeah, that's true.

One and then you can say OK, what's

Wrong with this one.

So haha.

Yeah, and even asking the question, hey Steve, can you do X&Y and no hats mentioned so?

Exactly, yeah.

No, that's true. Just reply eggplant.

Then you can.

It's so frustrating I need to.

Understand that a lot better.


So, but I did have a great idea. Then it just kind of disappeared on me as you mentioned that because I started laughing and Oh yes, you could also make sure that messages are important.

Yeah, and and you can make them flash every two minutes until they actually answer and look at them. If you really want to annoy people.

Urgent importance.

Wow, yeah.

But you know it doesn't need to have that capability. That's something that you can't do in email. You can't kind of keep resending the email until they open it.

At least with chat, when you're talking about incident management and that kind of stuff, you can get peoples attention, so there's some bonuses there too, all right.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's the adcr.

Yes so.

All right, and then we've got the.

Ability so people need to show that they.

No and and and can execute.

Where they have the knowledge.

Yeah, that they can execute on it as well. Yeah, so there I I think it's it's that easy that you can actually just measure how how that you get that you're getting less email or less internal email maybe.

Correct, you've got to measure. Yeah, you kind of do internally still.

And then.

Be right, you can do comparison charts, you know, put it into a chart. You should see one reducing and one increasing exactly and set your target. So set your KP.

I so that you know when you've actually made and been successful in this space.

Yeah, that's.

So that means when can you get cake when you want to reinforce this?

Correct, yes, we're going to have cake because we now pass the millionth chat.

Exactly, so our reinforcement.

The testimonials I think is a good one there that you can actually have people saying look this is just so much easier.

No, I think so. I think some case studies of where people have said, you know we started now having sharing and MS Teams with with our external supplier Blanc.

You know they got guest accounts and we can maintain the security of the chats, and it's just easier to be able to go, hey.

Has company X delivered this that they're supposed to deliver? And I don't have to go finding it in my emails anymore, and now I can see it in the context of the chat and the team and.

Yeah, so I think there's a. There's a whole bunch of of that stuff to do so so that would be a an example of a good chat adoption plan, and I think if you kind of think about that change, think about those sort of lessons that you need to show. Then I think you will end up producing email and everybody will be happy.

With that I think so, yeah, it's it's because the goal is not only to reduce.

Email, but the goal is to have like proper communication that just benefits the way you work, yeah?

Improved communications, yeah, absolutely. I don't disagree with that, yeah?

So that's the goal, so that's it.


Finished, good done.

So now we know what to do. Now we know what to tell our customers to tell our organisation and just implement.

It you go.

Yeah, just get on and do it, but do think about the ad car stuff and and and if you catch up with old podcasts there only 20 minutes each just to sort of break them down.

And there's also some really good documentation from the PRASKY website on all of this, and we we referenced some of that that information.

Here's the the thing.

That I don't like about this process.

Tell me.

OK, I won't notice really that I'm sending less emails.

It's it I have to be told. This whole reinforcement and measurement stuff. I'm kind of going to need to be told because I know I get a lot of emails and maybe I think I've got 100 emails a day, but I actually don't know the real number. So even if the number kind of goes down to 50 emails a day, will I really notice?

It's not saving me time or effort.

Maybe not, maybe not, but you will see it in the in the in the measurements in the productivity scoring.

Yeah, I agree with you, but as an end user I'm still end up having to spend just as much time communicating.

I'm having to spend just as much time sending sending chat so you know one of the things you need to be very careful about when you talk about detractors is that you're not going to sell them. You know more time or more effort.

But but you are going to say, well, you better find them easier, and so you'll be at save time in the history of things and sharing content.

But you know me as an individual. Yeah look, I'm now only doing 50 emails, so why is that? I'm still feeling stressed and busy and so just it's not a magic bullet solution.

It's just a way of moving forward and improving your communications and basically improving the storage of your communications just.

Yeah, I've given you just.

Another tool in the tool.

Set because some.

It's a better tool, yes?

Sometimes just giving people a phone call or organising a meeting is just even a better way to reduce email.

That's true as long as it's not something that you need to reinforce with a, you know a minutes afterwards, but I get that. But then again, you could just call them on teams and record the conversation.

Yep, turn into a transcript.

Yeah, cool what we need now is to think about the complexities associated with.

This whiskey we're about to taste.

Yes, that means locking it up on the interwebs and looking at tasting notes.

But we can't just taste it and tell.

Her about it.

Well, let me tell you what we are going to taste. So while Steve is looking up those tasting notes, you have rinsed your glass.

I have rinsed.

But you're going to bore it, honey.

OK, yes, so we are going to taste the Euro 7 wood.

7 wood

In fact, I'm not going to look it up on the interweb because Flavier is going to give me if I don't break this a tasty card.

That would tell me all about it, so this is the seven wood and and we're going to hit some caramel and coffee, which I really quite like and not dark chocolate, but milk chocolate. So that's actually what it says it will do.

Now then, what this generally happens, and maybe we'll find out this story is that.

It's not actually, you know, seven different barrels necessarily, that it goes from one to another, to another to another.

Of course it's seven different barrels that are then blended together.

Might be, or it might be 1 barrel that was made with seven types of wood.

Oh, that's new though that the.

This we did, yes.

Wait, where did we hear that?

Was that the whiskery?

I don't, I can't remember, but we heard, uhm, that somebody was testing that out. Just making a barrel with difference.

It was it was in Spain. It was one of these Spanish distilleries.

Lady rayburn

Yes, where they were saying that you know rather than having, you know, a Sherry cask and then moving it into a port cask, you rebuild the barrel and you take the staves from the Sherry and the staves from the port. Yeah, and then you use them to be able to bring in those those flavours. So yes.

It's interesting, so the list of barrels that we have here, so this JIRA is a blend of whiskies from first fill, ex. Bourbon, American Oak, Vazquez, Vosges barrel. I've heard of that.

One never heard.

About 10 years.


Drupal jupilles.

Now you're just making things up.

No, no, obviously I'm reading it.


Limousine barrels I have heard of tranqui yeah. Anyway, there's a bunch of barrels so it's all different barrels. And then of course it's blended together.

Oh yeah.


Yeah, OK.

But now I am intrigued about where I read those staves. Those barrel staves, but yeah, good shot anyway, but that's not that this is a little bit more simple than that.

You've put the whiskey on my table. I did.

All righty.

And you said milk chocolate.

According to our flavour and we got a lot of coffee, ginger, some ginger in it apparently. So the flavour was so if if you take flavier you get the flavour wheel so we have coffee, caramel, milk, chocolate, so little spicy, chilli, spicy and ginger.

But there's also orange zest and Peach in here.

So that's what it says on here.

Testing will definitely get the caramel on the nose. I get a little of that ginger as well, like little.

Uhm, freshie notes.

That more chocolaty? Not yet, but that will come on the taste I'm sure.

So parents on the nose, so it says. But so yeah, ginger spice, a hint of milk, chocolate and coffee.

Coffee I kind of get there, but that kind.

Of chocolate coffee.


Very faint, this is that kind of base knows you know that underlying nose.

But it's a sweet nose, even though it kind of implies ginger spice and a hint of chocolate.

Yeah it is.

It's kind of a sweet nose.

Yeah, it's interesting.

It's not bad. It's a good nose.

I think I've got a good news.

You tasted it.

Tell me.

Green I see your face light up all right.

Oh, that is very very nice.

Yeah, it's chewy.

It's a.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It changes. I know it's very, very complex.

Whom you ought to test, wow.

Then I got lots of milk chocolate on the after test.

And I get the orange on the side of the tongue, candied orange.

Yeah, yeah.

Sweet, Chewy, but it's supposed to get licorice now. I was looking at that on the glass as well. It's considering that it's not coming across as very oily. It's got quite a nice long finish.

Umm, OK not that only.

No, but you said.

You said it was like chewable, so I was. I was kind of expecting lots of oil and.

Oh yeah, no, didn't mean that.

No I to.

Me, it was multiple tastes across the back of the tongue, which is what I kind of classes.

Chewable, you know the sides of the.

Tongue so only get that swore this tongue around a little bit.

This is a very nice whiskey and then juror has a bit of a standard taste. I mean, I've got a nice bottle of sort of no age statement or a young juror.

Yeah, I've got something as well, yeah?

Let's go to the same base, but.

Can you tell?

This has been in seven wooden barrels no no.

So that's kind of irrelevant, really. It's it's a great taste, is a great finish. The finish drops off very quickly though.

Yeah yeah, yeah.

It's medium length, but then it suddenly goes it's.

Yeah no.

But it's something stays really, yeah, but I'm I'm not not very entirely sure if I like what is staying behind.

Not sure what.

It's there's this thing in in the Netherlands and in Belgium, and it's very sweet milk chocolates called cow bars. Kuchiyose tip.

And it's very sickly sweet.

Chocolate, that's what this reminds.

And that's kind of the after after, after taste that I get soft.

You of.

In the central yeah.

This is because if I if I was to say the overlying flavour for, this is possibly a burnt bitter orange.

I don't get smooth chocolaty finishes on this at all.

I kind of.

Get I do because it's nearly eastern. I've been eating a bunch of these little Easter eggs that's.

Why you're starving yourself, is it?

Yeah, exactly.

So no, I definitely get chocolate on there, but then no chocolate. And then it ends in.

Super sweet chocolate, but not the not the good kind.

I like this.

I would buy a bottle.

I wouldn't buy it because it's brilliantly and I'm so precise and give it to all my friends.

But I would.

Buy it a bit like a Dean stones. It's a good Scottish whiskey. It's got a story behind it in terms of the seven barrels and.

Because it's different.

I really quite like orange and I can kind of I can still taste that candied orange. Not overly sweet, but yeah, I mean, you obviously don't get it, but I I have a a flavour for orange.

No, I I do. I do get it on the sides.

Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, I kind of I like that. I like that very much and I think I've still got a tasting bottle of that. So I shall look forward to to that which seems to have bought the same tasty.

You do, yeah.

Yeah, box.

Yeah, I'm not overly convinced about this. I'd like the taste. It's definitely something else. It's definitely something different. No, I will not say no no.

Look, if you're not convinced, pour it in this glass. After she don't. You just say you're not convinced.

I need to kill the germs inside of my body, yeah?

Yeah, that's true. Yes, you need to taste it professionally.

Yes, that's what I meant.

So while you're just enjoying that, then I'll kind of close this off and see where we're at because we are at 56 minutes, so we have done our hours podcasts. Normality has returned.

And we changed. Hey, we changed. We are now thinking add car and know what all 5 words mean.

Yes, that's a big.

Change and it's interesting as we approach it to some of the things that we talk about. I don't know how long it will last, but but there you go. So we talked about whether.

Emails can literally reduce in quantity in numbers.

Because of bringing a good chat.

Strategy and overall we believe that's what will happen and I don't think it's just because of the generations. I think that there's a lot of positives around being able to keep that context together, and it supports the whole organisations moved towards.

So you know it's about being able to say that document is wrong and then walking away, and people seeing that.

Hey so I need to go back and look at that without having to kind of come up with a story that says hey, I think that you're missing this and you're missing that and you know I can say something and then go running off for my train and.

And and leave other people to fix the problem.

I think also.

With loop, which we haven't even touched upon.

No, which is silly.

You know, because currently you know, that's where the most loop is. I'm talking about this at Commons verse in June, funnily enough, but looping in the collaboration and you know, the ability to kind of say, hey guys, you don't need to do 17 chats here to be able to put in a.

A list of bullet points we need to consider. I can kind of create a table in loop and everybody is able to kind of collaborate within that chat.

To then send it off as an.

Be fair though.

And that's right. To be fair, I can also put the link in the email and do it within that document, but that's kind of not there yet, but it will be.

But but yeah, so we haven't really touched upon that. But then we could equally sit there and say, you know, there's there's all those other things we talked about, like GIFs and visual.

But you know, there's a bunch of stuff we can now put in the chat, so a form I can put a form in the chat and I can just click on it and interact with it and close it again and not worry about it, whereas with an email you have to go and open it out and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's some advantages to chats. We've identified them.

We can train on them. We can kind of make it clear and I think chats got a great story and it's an easier story potentially to tell than the email story.

Yeah, yeah, because we all know email we've been using it for a gazillion years so chat is definitely the younger kid on the block.

It's the new and improved way of communicating.

That is true. That is true, I think.

It feels more natural with the emojis as well.

There's a little advantages.

Yeah, yeah it brings in some of that 80% body language.

Yeah exactly yeah.

Now that's cool.

So there we go.

So guys, iron girls and all those in between are really really helpful and not quite. I went down that inclusive line of thinking what I'm going to do here but.

All of our.

Business, uh, hope you enjoyed this. It was good to get.

Back to something in depth.

It was a good process spending time talking about it and coming up with something.

So yes, so from Steve Dalby, I agree, a good chat adoption plan will reduce email and the JIRA 7.

Food is worth a purchase, so I think I might buy a bottle and put that on my.

Shelf how would you buy a bottle and I'll buy.

Something else that.

We can try next time on the.

Next podcast.

That is true my friend. Yeah alright, so goodbye from Steve Dalby. I'll hand over to Marine and I'll get the button ready to close this off and he can say bye bye.

No spirits, we are true.

These may be more than marriage.

But touring the business like Whiskey Barrels.