WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.660 Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches. 00:00:03.840 --> 00:00:04.920 This week's episode. 00:00:05.520 --> 00:00:06.899 Is a conversation with a friend. 00:00:06.899 --> 00:00:08.129 Her name is Shantelle Allen. 00:00:08.219 --> 00:00:11.160 She has been a coach since 2018 or 2019. 00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:14.340 Shantelle started out as an acquaintance. 00:00:14.340 --> 00:00:15.809 Then she became a client and now. 00:00:16.230 --> 00:00:17.910 She's definitely a family friend. 00:00:18.540 --> 00:00:21.000 Kate, and I have gotten to know her and appreciate her. 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.060 And so I'm very happy to bring Shantelle to you. 00:00:24.959 --> 00:00:28.169 I wanted to bring her on the podcast because I've watched her go through 00:00:28.200 --> 00:00:30.060 multiple evolutions in her practice. 00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:35.280 And in spite of the fact that she is a very type, a high achieving 00:00:35.310 --> 00:00:37.050 striver, she calls herself. 00:00:37.379 --> 00:00:40.890 She's been very open to new ways of being throughout the five or six 00:00:40.890 --> 00:00:42.179 years that she's been in practice. 00:00:42.629 --> 00:00:46.019 And I can see how it benefits her and now it has benefited her clients. 00:00:46.410 --> 00:00:49.800 And so for that reason, I wanted to share Shantelle and her work with you. 00:00:50.310 --> 00:00:52.349 So let's get in to this conversation. 00:00:53.541 --> 00:00:57.311 Mark Butler: I think we met in 2018 or 19, 00:00:57.561 --> 00:00:59.801 Chantel Allen: 18, 18, 18. 00:00:59.811 --> 00:01:02.301 Last time I've coached school was live in person. 00:01:03.161 --> 00:01:04.021 Mark Butler: Did we meet there? 00:01:04.281 --> 00:01:04.491 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:01:04.961 --> 00:01:06.961 We went to life coach training, you were an instructor there. 00:01:06.961 --> 00:01:09.471 Kate was going through at the same time. 00:01:09.561 --> 00:01:13.671 I think it was later in 2019 that we did a lunch with. 00:01:14.151 --> 00:01:14.761 With you. 00:01:14.791 --> 00:01:16.921 And we just like picked your brain like crazy. 00:01:16.931 --> 00:01:21.031 And you were so open and willing for us just to kind of dive 00:01:21.031 --> 00:01:22.891 into the, the mind of Mark. 00:01:23.421 --> 00:01:27.181 And then we kind of, that's when we started to do the free calls. 00:01:27.181 --> 00:01:30.181 But then also I think we did that mastermind right after that with you too. 00:01:30.311 --> 00:01:30.701 Mark Butler: Oh, that. 00:01:30.701 --> 00:01:30.911 Yep. 00:01:31.031 --> 00:01:31.261 Yep. 00:01:31.261 --> 00:01:31.711 That's right. 00:01:32.091 --> 00:01:32.361 So yeah. 00:01:32.361 --> 00:01:35.361 So Chantelle has been my client. 00:01:35.671 --> 00:01:37.551 We've, we've done some coaching together. 00:01:38.211 --> 00:01:41.431 You're an interesting character for me in my coaching universe, because 00:01:41.431 --> 00:01:46.191 you exemplify and you model a way of being that I think is amazing. 00:01:46.891 --> 00:01:51.071 There are coaches who find their way into their, their coaching community. 00:01:51.441 --> 00:01:55.961 They adopt the way of being that's taught and supported by that coaching community. 00:01:56.291 --> 00:01:57.251 That's what they bring. 00:01:57.261 --> 00:01:58.701 They build their business around it. 00:02:00.916 --> 00:02:06.006 work with their clients in the way that community prescribes. 00:02:06.756 --> 00:02:07.486 And, that's it. 00:02:07.496 --> 00:02:09.596 They just kind of hang out there long term. 00:02:10.896 --> 00:02:15.886 I don't think it's a bad way of being, but it's not your way of being. 00:02:16.876 --> 00:02:18.996 Chantel Allen: Well, and if I'm being honest, I did start there. 00:02:19.126 --> 00:02:22.436 Like, I think everybody kind of walking out of the environment that 00:02:22.436 --> 00:02:26.021 we kind of walked out of I think a natural tendency is to follow what 00:02:26.021 --> 00:02:28.101 you're prescribed to do and try it. 00:02:28.551 --> 00:02:31.181 But I think I found out very quickly it didn't work for me. 00:02:31.281 --> 00:02:34.671 And so, I think it was, I mean, I'm going to give you credit here. 00:02:34.671 --> 00:02:36.471 You helped me step outside of that box. 00:02:37.031 --> 00:02:39.661 Because it was a very scary place to be to say, I'm not 00:02:39.661 --> 00:02:40.981 going to do it the same formula. 00:02:41.391 --> 00:02:45.301 I'm going to allow myself to try something different and just see what happens. 00:02:45.371 --> 00:02:46.211 I'm still learning. 00:02:46.221 --> 00:02:50.421 I still haven't figured it all out, but I think it's an easier place to be rather 00:02:50.421 --> 00:02:54.501 than going based off of what everybody else tells us is the way to do it. 00:02:55.111 --> 00:02:58.516 Mark Butler: I want to have people hear some of the specific, 00:02:59.066 --> 00:03:00.386 , steps along that journey. 00:03:01.096 --> 00:03:07.196 One of the reasons you're so compelling to me is that I consider you high achieving 00:03:07.986 --> 00:03:13.386 I would probably call you type a like straight A students rule following. 00:03:13.586 --> 00:03:14.076 Yes. 00:03:14.856 --> 00:03:18.956 And that's who you, that's who you came into coaching as. 00:03:19.206 --> 00:03:19.676 Yes. 00:03:20.111 --> 00:03:21.221 I'm not criticizing that. 00:03:21.241 --> 00:03:22.191 That's strength. 00:03:22.321 --> 00:03:23.221 Yeah, totally. 00:03:24.061 --> 00:03:27.281 That's why it's so interesting to me that bringing that DNA and that 00:03:27.281 --> 00:03:33.901 personality into your coaching life, you did give yourself permission to 00:03:34.481 --> 00:03:38.031 break the rules of one community and continue to be on your own exploration 00:03:38.031 --> 00:03:39.921 and find your own way of being. 00:03:42.441 --> 00:03:45.001 Talk about that evolution and however much detail you want. 00:03:45.791 --> 00:03:49.471 Chantel Allen: Well, I, I think the biggest thing that I've had to learn is. 00:03:50.116 --> 00:03:51.526 I had to go first. 00:03:51.906 --> 00:03:53.796 I thought everybody else had the answers for me. 00:03:54.156 --> 00:03:56.816 And so I had to realize I was the best client for myself. 00:03:57.286 --> 00:04:00.646 So I started doing things in the thought work land. 00:04:00.656 --> 00:04:02.606 That's kind of what we walked out of life coach school. 00:04:02.906 --> 00:04:06.086 And I started to notice for myself, I would apply and do some of these 00:04:06.086 --> 00:04:07.736 tools and it wasn't working for me. 00:04:08.116 --> 00:04:11.016 So I'm like, why would I, why would I approach this with my clients? 00:04:11.036 --> 00:04:13.926 If, if I'm trying to do this work and it's, I'm not getting 00:04:13.926 --> 00:04:15.676 traction, I'm not getting results. 00:04:15.936 --> 00:04:20.736 Like we claim right as coaches and so by my own integrity, by my own 00:04:20.776 --> 00:04:24.966 authenticity, I just knew something was missing and for a while it was a 00:04:24.966 --> 00:04:27.946 very scary place to be because again, you're like stepping outside the box. 00:04:27.946 --> 00:04:30.596 You're kind of going against what all the other. 00:04:31.036 --> 00:04:34.216 And I say that lightly, not all coaches are the same, but going 00:04:34.216 --> 00:04:36.496 against the model that we were taught. 00:04:36.946 --> 00:04:40.786 And, but I realized like, once I started to allow myself to have that voice 00:04:40.816 --> 00:04:44.266 and to kind of coach in that way, I attracted so many other people that 00:04:44.266 --> 00:04:45.976 are like, Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful. 00:04:45.976 --> 00:04:48.486 You're finally saying it this way, because I've noticed. 00:04:49.071 --> 00:04:53.341 I've hit a peak with ThoughtWork, or I've, you know, it doesn't work like 00:04:53.341 --> 00:04:57.451 the, they all claim it should, or I'm just stagnant, or whatever it is. 00:04:57.951 --> 00:05:02.601 And I think that's just it, is I've been willing to go first every single time. 00:05:02.621 --> 00:05:06.271 It's not that I let somebody else's model tell me that's where I needed to go. 00:05:06.651 --> 00:05:08.721 it's, I'm going to see what's working for me. 00:05:08.721 --> 00:05:10.381 And then I bring that into my coaching. 00:05:10.901 --> 00:05:12.241 And so it's changing all the time. 00:05:12.241 --> 00:05:14.605 Like I look at where I was last year, even to today, ,, we were 00:05:14.626 --> 00:05:15.520 talking a couple of weeks ago. 00:05:15.520 --> 00:05:18.400 I'm like, I've had this falling apart again in the last couple of 00:05:18.400 --> 00:05:22.220 months, but I think it's again, been leading my coaching to going to some 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:25.530 place that I think is going to be awesome to kind of play around with. 00:05:25.550 --> 00:05:28.890 But yeah, it's just, I go first every single time. 00:05:29.020 --> 00:05:30.370 So that's been my journey. 00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:32.520 And it's scary because I don't have it figured out. 00:05:32.550 --> 00:05:33.020 I don't have it. 00:05:33.020 --> 00:05:33.580 Perfect. 00:05:33.990 --> 00:05:35.860 And I think sometimes that's something that stops us. 00:05:36.670 --> 00:05:40.660 Mark Butler: Speaking of that fear, I'm curious if you have a memory of when, so 00:05:40.660 --> 00:05:43.670 you'd been taught a certain way of being, you'd been taught a certain approach. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:46.990 You started to feel like it wasn't delivering what you thought 00:05:46.990 --> 00:05:48.230 it was supposed to deliver. 00:05:48.500 --> 00:05:48.770 Right. 00:05:48.780 --> 00:05:50.160 Curious about that season. 00:05:50.900 --> 00:05:51.370 Yeah. 00:05:51.790 --> 00:05:55.280 What did that season look like for you where you're kind of coming out 00:05:55.280 --> 00:06:00.500 of this like, Oh, those tools, I see value in those tools, but they're 00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:04.130 not doing quite what they're supposed They're supposed to, what does 00:06:04.130 --> 00:06:05.560 that next season look like for you? 00:06:06.450 --> 00:06:09.410 Chantel Allen: So it was the good old 2020 era, I think is 00:06:09.430 --> 00:06:10.690 when I started to notice it. 00:06:10.710 --> 00:06:12.650 I, so I love what you said that I'm a high achiever. 00:06:12.650 --> 00:06:12.860 Yeah. 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:18.050 I will tell everybody I'm a high achiever type a, but most people that know that if 00:06:18.050 --> 00:06:21.570 you're that way, you also struggle with being in tune with your emotions, right? 00:06:21.570 --> 00:06:22.220 There's like this. 00:06:22.220 --> 00:06:22.290 Yeah. 00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:25.360 You're kind of numb, you're kind of cut off, which again, is a strength 00:06:25.390 --> 00:06:27.840 because you can just get going on things. 00:06:28.350 --> 00:06:32.680 But in 2020, here we were, we were all at home, and all of a sudden, 00:06:32.710 --> 00:06:35.020 and I think everybody can relate to this, anxiety became at an 00:06:35.030 --> 00:06:37.080 all time high for so many people. 00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:40.095 And so you could tell them, Think this positive thought 00:06:40.115 --> 00:06:42.075 or think this way or whatever. 00:06:42.075 --> 00:06:43.715 And it, it wasn't working. 00:06:43.715 --> 00:06:46.015 It wasn't working the way that we all thought it should. 00:06:46.015 --> 00:06:47.445 And I was in the same place. 00:06:47.475 --> 00:06:49.285 I was experiencing a ton of anxiety. 00:06:49.735 --> 00:06:53.825 A burnout was like right on the cusp in my business because with 00:06:54.035 --> 00:06:58.755 the, the pandemic, I had a flux of new clients that came into me. 00:06:58.755 --> 00:07:03.675 So business was great, but it was, it was coming at a cost to my health. 00:07:03.675 --> 00:07:07.065 And I was like, okay, there's gotta be something that breaks here and 00:07:07.095 --> 00:07:08.565 I don't need it to be me again. 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:11.680 And so I started to play around with that and I started realizing 00:07:11.930 --> 00:07:15.040 I'm telling myself I'm feeling my emotions, but I really am not. 00:07:15.380 --> 00:07:19.320 So I went and got training in emotion work because I'm like, I think 00:07:19.330 --> 00:07:20.660 this is the missing piece for me. 00:07:20.690 --> 00:07:23.450 I think this is what I need to learn a little bit more. 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:27.565 And coming from being a striver, it was some of the scariest. 00:07:27.595 --> 00:07:31.305 I still like, I still feel it's a little woo, but I say that to a lot of people. 00:07:31.305 --> 00:07:33.115 I'm like, it's a little woo to me to kind of go there. 00:07:33.635 --> 00:07:36.205 But , I saw the benefits and I'm like, Oh my gosh. 00:07:36.215 --> 00:07:36.465 Okay. 00:07:36.465 --> 00:07:39.285 If I'm seeing the benefits of understanding my emotions more, 00:07:39.695 --> 00:07:40.875 then there's something here. 00:07:40.915 --> 00:07:44.805 There's something here that I know can really, really benefit other 00:07:44.805 --> 00:07:46.775 people that are just like me. 00:07:47.255 --> 00:07:49.985 So in the 2020 realm, that's where I started to move. 00:07:50.005 --> 00:07:53.105 I was coaching in another person's, coaching group at the time. 00:07:53.425 --> 00:07:56.515 And I just started putting it into my coaching that people would hear. 00:07:56.905 --> 00:07:59.825 And the feedback that I got almost immediately was like, 00:08:00.085 --> 00:08:01.315 this is a breath of fresh air. 00:08:01.345 --> 00:08:03.015 This is something that I have needed. 00:08:03.335 --> 00:08:05.195 This makes so much more sense to me. 00:08:05.495 --> 00:08:07.505 And so that's what kind of was the catapult. 00:08:07.545 --> 00:08:08.825 Cause again, it was me. 00:08:08.845 --> 00:08:10.495 I had to be the person that saw it first. 00:08:10.515 --> 00:08:13.855 I was realizing I've hit a roadblock in coaching and, my 00:08:13.855 --> 00:08:18.435 health and my relationships and just applying this new tool is what 00:08:18.935 --> 00:08:20.085 took everything to the next level. 00:08:20.620 --> 00:08:24.420 Mark Butler: My question is you're having these epiphanies and I like how you said 00:08:24.430 --> 00:08:32.290 you're your own best client, but you have clients too, so you are using tools. 00:08:32.585 --> 00:08:36.515 Teaching tools, on a podcast or in your content and, in your 00:08:36.515 --> 00:08:37.565 community with your clients. 00:08:38.785 --> 00:08:41.815 And then you're finding that those tools are lacking for you. 00:08:42.745 --> 00:08:45.435 And then you're going to find new tools and you're adopting those tools 00:08:45.465 --> 00:08:48.065 and experimenting with them, but you're doing all of this while there 00:08:48.065 --> 00:08:49.215 are appointments on the calendar. 00:08:49.485 --> 00:08:49.975 Yes. 00:08:50.545 --> 00:08:51.665 How are you navigating that? 00:08:52.315 --> 00:08:55.515 Chantel Allen: The biggest thing I've had to be open with is I tell people 00:08:55.515 --> 00:08:56.815 like, I'm still figuring this out. 00:08:57.375 --> 00:09:01.825 Like even when I get on a call with somebody, I had a, I had a consult just 00:09:01.825 --> 00:09:05.235 the other week where someone was like, how do I know that this stuff even works? 00:09:05.235 --> 00:09:06.375 And I'm like, you don't. 00:09:06.685 --> 00:09:09.585 You just have to, again, there's not a Holy grail. 00:09:09.675 --> 00:09:12.635 So I, I'm constantly telling my clients, like I'm trying new things 00:09:12.655 --> 00:09:16.255 and I will constantly bring what I am learning into our coaching. 00:09:16.665 --> 00:09:20.635 But again, if it's not a Holy grail, if it's not a one size fits all, I 00:09:20.675 --> 00:09:22.195 just look at it as my coaching changes. 00:09:22.265 --> 00:09:24.385 We're just giving them different tools in their tool belt. 00:09:24.395 --> 00:09:28.595 So someone that was my client when I was in the thought work realm, it 00:09:28.595 --> 00:09:31.025 doesn't mean I did it all wrong or they didn't get anything out of it. 00:09:31.025 --> 00:09:31.955 It's like, you know what? 00:09:31.965 --> 00:09:32.925 That was awesome. 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:36.320 Now we can try this and we're going to try and apply this. 00:09:36.350 --> 00:09:39.630 And it's been so good in that way, because not that you want people 00:09:39.630 --> 00:09:42.760 to keep coming back, but they come back because they know there's other 00:09:42.760 --> 00:09:44.170 ways that we can look into this. 00:09:44.870 --> 00:09:47.090 Mark Butler: The way you're saying that makes me think that you weren't 00:09:47.100 --> 00:09:50.640 making yourself wrong for having done it a different way and then, 00:09:51.050 --> 00:09:52.380 and then doing something new. 00:09:52.540 --> 00:09:53.720 Was it never a struggle? 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:55.150 Did you never have issues with that? 00:09:55.410 --> 00:09:56.680 Chantel Allen: I did at the very beginning. 00:09:56.700 --> 00:09:59.200 So when I was, especially coaching and another coaches. 00:09:59.740 --> 00:10:02.640 group because she hired me to be this way. 00:10:02.650 --> 00:10:05.730 Like I thought for sure she was hiring me for my style that I was before. 00:10:06.030 --> 00:10:10.200 So I had a lot of cognitive dissonance of just like, you know, I should be 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:12.130 like this, but I'm really compelled. 00:10:12.150 --> 00:10:16.810 I was sure I was going to get fired years ago because I was 00:10:16.810 --> 00:10:17.790 doing something different. 00:10:17.790 --> 00:10:19.330 So I definitely had. 00:10:19.745 --> 00:10:21.345 the internal battle with that. 00:10:21.345 --> 00:10:23.495 Cause I'm like, I mean, you and I've had many conversations 00:10:23.505 --> 00:10:25.125 about that, of what do I do? 00:10:25.155 --> 00:10:29.615 Cause I got a lot of my clients from being in that, that coach's group for a while. 00:10:29.915 --> 00:10:33.845 So I was so worried that, yeah, I'm getting all of these clients from this. 00:10:33.855 --> 00:10:35.205 And then she's going to let me go. 00:10:35.225 --> 00:10:37.415 Cause I'm so different than everybody else. 00:10:37.745 --> 00:10:38.875 , what am I going to do? 00:10:39.345 --> 00:10:42.035 But I also am like, this just feels right to me. 00:10:42.045 --> 00:10:46.280 I think that's where Coaching becomes hard or business becomes hard is when we're 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:51.490 doing things that we should versus what we feel compelled and, and want to do. 00:10:51.920 --> 00:10:53.440 So I've noticed it. 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:53.700 Yeah. 00:10:53.740 --> 00:10:54.990 It is still as a struggle. 00:10:55.000 --> 00:10:56.320 Like I still see other people. 00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:58.110 I put out a podcast on mine last week. 00:10:58.515 --> 00:11:00.375 That push up against the coaching industry. 00:11:00.395 --> 00:11:04.125 And I was so nervous about the feedback and the pushback. 00:11:04.135 --> 00:11:07.515 But at the same time, I'm like, that's what calls to me. 00:11:07.515 --> 00:11:09.375 So I listened to that part. 00:11:09.385 --> 00:11:12.625 That's like, you're, you're going to, something's going to happen to you if 00:11:12.625 --> 00:11:14.405 you say this, or you coach in this way. 00:11:14.925 --> 00:11:17.725 But I also know there's a lot of people that resonate with what I have to say. 00:11:17.765 --> 00:11:18.905 And I'm not for everybody. 00:11:18.935 --> 00:11:20.405 Like, that's my thing is I'm not for everybody. 00:11:20.405 --> 00:11:21.685 I'm not trying to get everybody. 00:11:21.685 --> 00:11:25.465 I'm just trying to find the people that align with what and how I do coaching. 00:11:25.605 --> 00:11:27.285 Mark Butler: When you talk about burnout and the possibility 00:11:27.285 --> 00:11:30.655 of burnout The expensive part there is the self deception. 00:11:31.065 --> 00:11:38.395 Yes It's so internally costly to feel that one thing is true But 00:11:38.395 --> 00:11:42.080 to be acting as though something else is true is true or is better. 00:11:42.490 --> 00:11:42.730 Yep. 00:11:42.790 --> 00:11:45.500 It's so expensive mentally and emotionally. 00:11:45.530 --> 00:11:49.490 And that I think is what produces burnout. 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.135 Chantel Allen: At the very beginning, I think that struggle that I had 00:11:53.135 --> 00:11:55.935 is this narrative of you just need to believe harder, right? 00:11:55.935 --> 00:11:58.475 If you're not getting the results, you just need to believe harder. 00:11:58.845 --> 00:12:03.005 And that, I had so much pushback on that, of like, okay, that, is that true? 00:12:03.025 --> 00:12:06.495 Like I must, I just need to believe harder so I can get different results. 00:12:06.985 --> 00:12:08.125 And it just didn't feel right. 00:12:08.135 --> 00:12:11.825 So yeah, I was, I think everybody, it's normal for us to have that fight 00:12:11.825 --> 00:12:13.535 within ourselves of like, is that true? 00:12:13.535 --> 00:12:14.985 Or is what I'm thinking is true? 00:12:15.355 --> 00:12:15.795 But yeah. 00:12:16.275 --> 00:12:16.675 I don't know. 00:12:16.745 --> 00:12:17.865 I think that's just part of the journey. 00:12:18.105 --> 00:12:19.085 I think all of the time. 00:12:19.115 --> 00:12:20.985 Mark Butler: One of the important things to me is that when you came 00:12:20.985 --> 00:12:27.475 up against that and you said, I'm not finding enough evidence for that way 00:12:27.475 --> 00:12:31.295 of being, that's a fork in the road. 00:12:31.315 --> 00:12:34.355 And tragically, too many people. 00:12:34.685 --> 00:12:37.435 at that fork in the road, they choose a path that's called, I 00:12:37.435 --> 00:12:39.625 must be wrong and bad and terrible. 00:12:40.945 --> 00:12:46.005 And I think it, I think it's really harmful, hurtful, painful, because 00:12:46.005 --> 00:12:49.785 what, what they're saying is, Oh, if the message is just believe harder, 00:12:49.975 --> 00:12:53.275 and I think I'm believing harder, but the result isn't changing. 00:12:53.875 --> 00:12:56.805 That must mean that I'm bad or wrong. 00:12:57.245 --> 00:12:58.345 Something's wrong with me. 00:12:58.405 --> 00:12:58.735 Yeah. 00:12:59.105 --> 00:13:04.850 But the other path at that fork in the road is I'm not bad or wrong, 00:13:04.850 --> 00:13:10.170 so I'm going to find something else that's more effective 00:13:11.010 --> 00:13:11.370 Chantel Allen: for me. 00:13:12.605 --> 00:13:15.575 If you go down the side that allows you to step into yourself, it's actually easier. 00:13:16.055 --> 00:13:19.045 It's when you lean into what you believe is truth or what everybody 00:13:19.045 --> 00:13:19.905 else is telling you to do. 00:13:20.135 --> 00:13:21.325 That actually is harder. 00:13:21.405 --> 00:13:23.025 You're swimming upstream. 00:13:23.055 --> 00:13:25.985 You know, you're trying to prove yourself in the coaching world versus 00:13:26.005 --> 00:13:28.635 letting yourself kind of go down the other side of the fork and just 00:13:28.635 --> 00:13:30.675 saying like, my side is working. 00:13:30.695 --> 00:13:32.105 I just got to fine tune it. 00:13:32.105 --> 00:13:35.295 I got to figure out the ors or the whatever, but it does work. 00:13:35.295 --> 00:13:36.555 I just got to figure that part out. 00:13:36.695 --> 00:13:40.869 So, and that's scary because it's not like everybody else 00:13:41.521 --> 00:13:44.061 Mark Butler: So you're making this transition from, one way 00:13:44.061 --> 00:13:48.281 of being to another and you're doing it all while having clients 00:13:49.611 --> 00:13:50.581 and you're feeling the fear. 00:13:50.581 --> 00:13:53.671 How often did it come into your mind to just bail on the whole 00:13:53.681 --> 00:13:55.211 thing and just be like, I'm out. 00:13:56.091 --> 00:13:59.791 Chantel Allen: If I'm being very honest, I have that every couple of months. 00:14:00.361 --> 00:14:00.701 Okay. 00:14:00.981 --> 00:14:01.791 It still happens. 00:14:01.791 --> 00:14:02.031 Yeah. 00:14:02.061 --> 00:14:02.961 It still totally happens. 00:14:02.981 --> 00:14:04.861 That's why I was saying when we talked a couple weeks ago, I was like, 00:14:05.271 --> 00:14:06.851 yeah, just came from a falling apart. 00:14:06.861 --> 00:14:10.391 And I, it's a decision I have to constantly make in my business of 00:14:10.391 --> 00:14:12.511 like, Hey, I'm doing this again. 00:14:12.521 --> 00:14:14.981 But I, yeah, I think it still is a struggle. 00:14:14.981 --> 00:14:17.381 I, but what I've come to realize is. 00:14:17.771 --> 00:14:22.011 When that time happens, it's not a bad thing, like I used to have so much 00:14:22.011 --> 00:14:25.291 shame around it of like, well, maybe I'm doubting my business or I want to quit 00:14:25.291 --> 00:14:30.581 and that's a sign that I need to listen to it or I need to, and I'm taking it as now 00:14:30.581 --> 00:14:32.681 just like, no, maybe I need to slow down. 00:14:32.691 --> 00:14:35.671 Maybe I need to look at some of the systems that I'm trying and decide 00:14:35.671 --> 00:14:36.851 again if I really want to do them. 00:14:36.871 --> 00:14:37.111 But. 00:14:37.611 --> 00:14:39.571 It's not a quitting thing anymore. 00:14:39.571 --> 00:14:43.801 It's just more of like, I just need a breath or I just need to realign in a 00:14:43.801 --> 00:14:45.201 different way or something like that. 00:14:45.211 --> 00:14:47.371 Mark Butler: Are you describing the falling apart experience? 00:14:47.371 --> 00:14:48.781 Is that what that looks like? 00:14:48.881 --> 00:14:49.791 Chantel Allen: Oh, absolutely. 00:14:49.931 --> 00:14:50.271 Yeah. 00:14:50.521 --> 00:14:54.431 I literally, so I was again, Stryver right in my podcast. 00:14:54.431 --> 00:14:54.991 I've been doing it for. 00:14:55.296 --> 00:14:55.996 Five years. 00:14:56.076 --> 00:14:58.456 And I'm that perfectionist, right? 00:14:58.466 --> 00:15:01.856 So the coaches told us for so long, you need to do it consistently 00:15:01.886 --> 00:15:05.096 every single month, every single week at a certain time, have your 00:15:05.096 --> 00:15:06.416 people know that it's coming out. 00:15:06.786 --> 00:15:09.566 Last year, when I had some issues happen in my coaching 00:15:09.566 --> 00:15:11.686 business, I literally let that go. 00:15:11.726 --> 00:15:12.726 I let that fall apart. 00:15:12.746 --> 00:15:15.906 And it was the scariest thing, but it was such a breath of fresh air. 00:15:15.906 --> 00:15:18.546 At the same time, I gave myself permission to stop doing some of the 00:15:18.556 --> 00:15:23.296 things that I was told I needed to do and then read aside, recommit to it. 00:15:23.306 --> 00:15:24.256 So I'm still doing it again. 00:15:24.611 --> 00:15:25.331 But it's so different. 00:15:25.361 --> 00:15:26.571 I may not put it out every week. 00:15:26.711 --> 00:15:29.661 And that's so different than where I was like three years ago, where I was 00:15:29.671 --> 00:15:31.151 like, I have to do it every single week. 00:15:31.151 --> 00:15:35.741 It's now that falling apart gave me permission to again, show up when I 00:15:35.741 --> 00:15:38.691 wanted to show up and not have to be perfect and consistent all of the time. 00:15:38.981 --> 00:15:41.801 And I think it's even better now because now when I show up, it's 00:15:41.801 --> 00:15:45.831 on purpose because I want to versus, oh, I should, or I have to. 00:15:45.881 --> 00:15:47.591 Mark Butler: That sounds like a transition from a fear 00:15:47.591 --> 00:15:49.221 motivation to a love motivation. 00:15:49.601 --> 00:15:50.231 Chantel Allen: Absolutely. 00:15:50.231 --> 00:15:53.091 And I do think like, I noticed even the money issue, money has been such 00:15:53.091 --> 00:15:54.631 an issue for me for since starting. 00:15:54.681 --> 00:15:57.481 Cause I was, I mean, it's a business we want to make money from it. 00:15:57.901 --> 00:16:01.921 But before there was this narrative of like, you got to keep going and 00:16:01.921 --> 00:16:04.721 double your income and double your income and double whatever in this. 00:16:05.126 --> 00:16:08.086 You know, you're supposed to, whatever, every single time that 00:16:08.086 --> 00:16:11.886 fear again in comparison led me to like, I'm doing it all wrong. 00:16:11.906 --> 00:16:13.456 I'm not doing it right or whatever. 00:16:13.736 --> 00:16:17.296 As soon as I let that go and I just show up, right, that's when everything 00:16:17.296 --> 00:16:22.296 just started to work, which goes totally against what my brain and 00:16:22.296 --> 00:16:23.696 this driver wants me to believe. 00:16:23.706 --> 00:16:26.839 It's just like, it tells me I have to keep going, but no, as 00:16:26.839 --> 00:16:28.406 soon as you let things fall apart. 00:16:28.831 --> 00:16:29.831 It becomes easy. 00:16:30.631 --> 00:16:31.491 That's pretty good. 00:16:32.471 --> 00:16:33.491 Mark Butler: That's pretty good. 00:16:33.881 --> 00:16:37.841 Talk to me about ,, the changes in your approach. 00:16:37.841 --> 00:16:40.051 I know you started with what you're calling this very 00:16:40.061 --> 00:16:43.451 thought work, very cognitive. 00:16:43.956 --> 00:16:44.416 Yep. 00:16:44.576 --> 00:16:46.876 Approach with yourself and with your clients. 00:16:47.176 --> 00:16:49.616 Then you talked about pursuing an emotions training. 00:16:50.556 --> 00:16:52.076 Keep going with that conversation. 00:16:52.136 --> 00:16:55.656 How are you different in your approach to coaching than you were five years ago? 00:16:56.696 --> 00:16:58.126 Chantel Allen: So yes, I did thought training. 00:16:58.186 --> 00:16:59.156 I still use it. 00:16:59.196 --> 00:17:02.416 I think again, it's got some benefits to, to be able to question our thoughts 00:17:02.416 --> 00:17:06.376 and to be able to recognize our stories, but I don't go heavy laden into it. 00:17:06.486 --> 00:17:10.076 It's not that we have to look at every single thing because I also 00:17:10.076 --> 00:17:12.686 find kind of what we were saying is I went to emotion training. 00:17:12.686 --> 00:17:16.936 So now I bring in emotion work to it and helping people to awaken to their 00:17:16.936 --> 00:17:18.716 emotions, know what their emotions are. 00:17:19.281 --> 00:17:22.371 But even now, so that's some of the falling apart that happened. 00:17:23.021 --> 00:17:26.751 I am noticing and I would love to hear your thoughts on this too, Mark, but 00:17:26.781 --> 00:17:30.781 I have noticed in the coaching world that it, I would say self development. 00:17:30.781 --> 00:17:33.351 I don't want to just say this is just coaching, but self development 00:17:33.501 --> 00:17:37.351 we swung from being a very, we had to actually teach people to 00:17:37.361 --> 00:17:38.791 be selfish at the very beginning. 00:17:38.811 --> 00:17:41.531 I would say five years ago of like, Hey, it's okay for you to be selfish. 00:17:41.561 --> 00:17:42.231 Cause that was me. 00:17:42.251 --> 00:17:42.941 That was totally me. 00:17:42.941 --> 00:17:46.001 If like, It's okay for you to be selfish, to work on yourself, to 00:17:46.031 --> 00:17:47.591 in, you know, invest in yourself. 00:17:48.241 --> 00:17:51.991 But now I've seen it swing to the other side where now we're like over 00:17:51.991 --> 00:17:57.001 the top and people are becoming too, and I say this lightly, too selfish. 00:17:57.331 --> 00:18:00.551 And we see our kids kind of growing up this way, only talking about their 00:18:00.551 --> 00:18:04.831 problems, only focusing on their emotions, having to heal every single little thing. 00:18:05.211 --> 00:18:07.471 And so I, not that I even know the balance yet. 00:18:08.106 --> 00:18:11.446 But even in my coaching, I'm trying to find where I don't swing one 00:18:11.446 --> 00:18:14.406 side or the other of like, yes, we have to solve every problem. 00:18:14.436 --> 00:18:16.776 We have to feel every emotion. 00:18:16.786 --> 00:18:18.636 It's, can we figure that out? 00:18:18.636 --> 00:18:19.396 Turn on the lights. 00:18:19.396 --> 00:18:23.206 But then my thing is like, get up and go, go live your life. 00:18:23.666 --> 00:18:25.166 Go be with people. 00:18:25.376 --> 00:18:28.746 Think about other people instead of it being that I have to be on 00:18:28.746 --> 00:18:31.986 an Island by myself and figure this out before I can go live my life. 00:18:32.826 --> 00:18:34.986 So that's, I don't even have it all figured out. 00:18:34.986 --> 00:18:37.316 And that's, I've told that to so many of the people that I'm starting to work with. 00:18:37.316 --> 00:18:38.936 I'm like, I don't know yet what this is. 00:18:38.966 --> 00:18:42.626 I even have a coaching group that I've told them like, we're going to try some 00:18:42.626 --> 00:18:46.246 different calls and you guys are going to tell me like this resonates, this doesn't. 00:18:47.026 --> 00:18:49.426 So I don't even know what that looks like exactly yet. 00:18:49.446 --> 00:18:51.436 I just, I'm constantly listening to that. 00:18:51.496 --> 00:18:52.496 I'm kind of watching. 00:18:52.891 --> 00:18:54.291 What I'm seeing in my clients. 00:18:54.311 --> 00:18:58.371 I'm watching and what's he in my own family and saying like, okay I don't 00:18:58.371 --> 00:19:02.451 want to be a part of the problem I want to make sure that what I do really does 00:19:02.461 --> 00:19:06.691 help I don't ever want to regret the way that I approach things and say like 00:19:06.941 --> 00:19:10.961 because of what I did This may have caused more problems than then good. 00:19:11.371 --> 00:19:13.001 Mark Butler: Self obsession is not positive. 00:19:13.931 --> 00:19:16.861 It's really about our character development who am I becoming? 00:19:17.311 --> 00:19:19.311 What is the nature of my character? 00:19:19.711 --> 00:19:21.651 Am I becoming a better and better person? 00:19:21.881 --> 00:19:23.191 Which isn't it crazy? 00:19:23.541 --> 00:19:28.796 That to invite people to become better people Would sound so weird in a 00:19:28.796 --> 00:19:30.926 coaching or a therapeutic environment. 00:19:31.106 --> 00:19:32.516 Chantel Allen: Yeah, no, I totally agree. 00:19:33.516 --> 00:19:34.476 You just don't hear it. 00:19:35.386 --> 00:19:37.336 Mark Butler: And I think one of the reasons you don't hear it is that people 00:19:37.336 --> 00:19:43.806 are more afraid than ever of claiming a dogma or claiming,, a specific philosophy 00:19:43.806 --> 00:19:49.876 and saying, I'm organizing my life around living this philosophy and growing 00:19:49.876 --> 00:19:51.586 within this philosophy like a faith. 00:19:52.151 --> 00:19:54.621 So for me, what you said is beautiful. 00:19:54.631 --> 00:19:58.511 It's like, I'm going to use thought work because thought work helps me become 00:19:59.271 --> 00:20:04.331 a dispassionate observer of what's flowing through my head and how it's 00:20:04.331 --> 00:20:07.671 impacting my emotional state and how it's impacting my behaviors and choices. 00:20:08.201 --> 00:20:09.461 That's incredibly powerful. 00:20:09.791 --> 00:20:14.671 I will always be so grateful to the life coach school and to Brooke 00:20:14.671 --> 00:20:19.441 Castillo for helping me shine a light on that in a way that I'd 00:20:19.441 --> 00:20:20.821 never, certainly never had before. 00:20:22.171 --> 00:20:24.951 And I also think it's not the complete picture. 00:20:25.811 --> 00:20:29.711 Then we get into emotions because our, our experience of life is emotion. 00:20:30.901 --> 00:20:33.461 And so learning to feel those emotions and understand them and 00:20:33.461 --> 00:20:37.331 figure out what information they have for us, incredibly powerful. 00:20:38.521 --> 00:20:40.241 But then we take both of those things. 00:20:40.241 --> 00:20:42.341 We take thought work and we take emotional work. 00:20:43.036 --> 00:20:47.046 And where we really want to apply those things is in character development. 00:20:47.426 --> 00:20:47.696 Yes. 00:20:47.996 --> 00:20:54.076 How do I use thought work and emotions work to become a better person, to become 00:20:54.526 --> 00:21:00.526 happier in my relationships, healthier in my relationships, to be of higher service 00:21:00.986 --> 00:21:05.856 to my small community and to the world at large, all the work has to be in service 00:21:05.876 --> 00:21:08.920 of becoming something that we aren't yet. 00:21:09.050 --> 00:21:11.709 Even though we're good and we're we're worthy and etc. 00:21:11.739 --> 00:21:14.289 This isn't about going from unworthy to worthy. 00:21:14.289 --> 00:21:17.909 It's about going for it., Less developed to more developed. 00:21:18.609 --> 00:21:18.959 Chantel Allen: Right. 00:21:19.369 --> 00:21:22.339 Well, and I think back to the very beginning with coaching, I 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:25.409 used to say that phrase of like, we got to help you be selfish. 00:21:25.409 --> 00:21:26.449 So you could be self less. 00:21:26.549 --> 00:21:30.099 I would say that all of the time, but that's kind of gotten lost in 00:21:30.099 --> 00:21:31.739 all of this of like, yes, be selfish. 00:21:31.789 --> 00:21:35.489 Like I love coaching because it helps us, like you said, know the power of our 00:21:35.489 --> 00:21:39.041 thoughts, know the power of our emotions, but we've kind of forgotten that selfless. 00:21:39.041 --> 00:21:40.940 And I'm calling myself out here too. 00:21:40.940 --> 00:21:43.924 It's I've kind of been so focused on myself sometimes that. 00:21:44.134 --> 00:21:46.874 It, it's created this place where it's all about me, right? 00:21:46.884 --> 00:21:50.804 So we need to get back to the selfless place and being out there 00:21:50.804 --> 00:21:55.054 serving the world, bringing us to it so that we can help other people. 00:21:55.434 --> 00:21:57.154 Because, so many people are lonely right now. 00:21:57.184 --> 00:22:00.944 That loneliness is on, is an epidemic and it's, why? 00:22:00.954 --> 00:22:04.804 Because we're so focused on ourselves and our problems and our emotions 00:22:05.194 --> 00:22:08.354 and we forget that we can just, we can notice those, but get up 00:22:08.354 --> 00:22:12.379 and go, go serve other people, go Bring your light to other people. 00:22:13.029 --> 00:22:15.539 Mark Butler: Yeah, this is outside my lane of expertise. 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:19.919 So this is just hearsay But I have heard that when people have been 00:22:19.919 --> 00:22:25.679 diagnosed with real depression one of the best Prescriptions is service. 00:22:25.969 --> 00:22:27.199 Yeah, Jordan. 00:22:27.719 --> 00:22:27.959 I think 00:22:27.959 --> 00:22:30.259 Chantel Allen: said that Jordan Peterson. 00:22:30.479 --> 00:22:30.919 Mark Butler: Oh, did he? 00:22:32.029 --> 00:22:32.299 Yeah, 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:33.069 Chantel Allen: pretty sure He said 00:22:33.369 --> 00:22:34.959 Mark Butler: you hear that you think well, yeah, of course 00:22:36.954 --> 00:22:37.114 Chantel Allen: But 00:22:37.114 --> 00:22:39.354 Mark Butler: Kate and Charlie, my wife and son, they just got 00:22:39.354 --> 00:22:42.724 back from a trip to Mexico where they were part of a big group. 00:22:42.744 --> 00:22:47.764 And in three days they built a house for a family, from scratch, 00:22:47.774 --> 00:22:50.304 no house before house after. 00:22:50.384 --> 00:22:51.074 Wow. 00:22:51.164 --> 00:22:51.854 That's so cool. 00:22:52.524 --> 00:22:56.424 And my 16 year old son comes home. 00:22:56.634 --> 00:22:58.084 He went in bad attitude. 00:22:58.144 --> 00:22:59.434 Of course he's 16. 00:23:00.704 --> 00:23:02.484 He came home glowing. 00:23:03.374 --> 00:23:03.984 That's so cool. 00:23:04.154 --> 00:23:05.744 He's like, dad, I just. 00:23:06.229 --> 00:23:08.169 I just, I want to be back there tomorrow. 00:23:08.859 --> 00:23:09.719 That's so cool. 00:23:10.099 --> 00:23:11.119 Yeah, of course you do. 00:23:11.129 --> 00:23:12.309 You feel amazing. 00:23:12.619 --> 00:23:13.389 You helped. 00:23:13.749 --> 00:23:14.119 Yeah. 00:23:14.389 --> 00:23:19.249 So I think our work, our thought work, whatever our particular modality 00:23:19.249 --> 00:23:20.089 is, 00:23:21.869 --> 00:23:28.979 it will fall flat if it's ultimately in service of self obsession, but it will 00:23:29.069 --> 00:23:34.479 flourish if it's in service of becoming a more developed person who's of greater, 00:23:34.829 --> 00:23:38.449 you know, who has greater enjoyments, richer life experience, and is of higher. 00:23:39.239 --> 00:23:41.619 Service to to humanity. 00:23:41.879 --> 00:23:48.409 I think that's the next evolution because we have too many examples now of people 00:23:48.409 --> 00:23:53.849 who , you know my I don't know if i've ever said this on the podcast, but We 00:23:53.869 --> 00:23:58.349 we know that one of the main or two of the main goals of certain coaching 00:23:58.349 --> 00:24:00.619 philosophies is, you know, skinny and rich 00:24:03.669 --> 00:24:07.579 And now we have plenty of examples of skinny rich miserable people 00:24:07.934 --> 00:24:11.934 so it's not that we're anti fitness, and it's not that we're anti wealth. 00:24:12.034 --> 00:24:12.374 Right. 00:24:12.474 --> 00:24:15.814 It's that we know that when we pursue them for, empty 00:24:15.814 --> 00:24:18.644 reasons, they are empty results. 00:24:19.274 --> 00:24:20.344 Chantel Allen: Well, and again, it kind of goes back to 00:24:20.344 --> 00:24:21.294 where I'm at with my coaching. 00:24:21.304 --> 00:24:24.104 Like I said, that consult that I had a couple weeks ago where this person's 00:24:24.104 --> 00:24:26.654 like, well, what, what, what am I going to get from coaching with you? 00:24:26.654 --> 00:24:29.534 And I'm like, I don't know, like I'm not selling a result. 00:24:29.534 --> 00:24:32.314 And I think that goes totally against the marketing of like, well, you have 00:24:32.314 --> 00:24:33.584 to have a result that you're selling. 00:24:33.624 --> 00:24:36.184 And of course I talked to him about what would be different, but 00:24:36.654 --> 00:24:39.504 it's not this flashy bang, bang of like, you're going to make. 00:24:40.009 --> 00:24:42.719 You know, 6, 000 in the next two weeks working with me, or 00:24:42.719 --> 00:24:44.229 you're going to lose 20 pounds. 00:24:44.509 --> 00:24:45.899 And I had a lot of drama about that. 00:24:45.899 --> 00:24:49.569 I was like, I have to figure out what it is that I'm selling that compels people. 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:53.979 And I think again, not that I'm trying to sell myself here, but it's just like, 00:24:54.229 --> 00:24:57.749 I think the way that I approach my life now, that's the selling component of it. 00:24:57.769 --> 00:24:59.639 It's not that I have to go and sell people. 00:24:59.639 --> 00:25:01.849 It's just like, you see what I'm doing. 00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:03.069 You see that I'm out serving. 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:04.689 And that compels people. 00:25:04.709 --> 00:25:07.829 And I think we forget that as coaches is we think we have to sell the product. 00:25:07.829 --> 00:25:10.549 And it's like, you're selling you, you're, you're the example of kind of 00:25:10.549 --> 00:25:11.829 what you're saying, the character, right? 00:25:12.179 --> 00:25:14.299 Be the example of the character, be selfless. 00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:18.139 That's going to compel way more clients to you than any marketing scheme 00:25:18.139 --> 00:25:19.209 that you could ever come up with. 00:25:20.769 --> 00:25:23.679 Mark Butler: I really want to hear you talk about that evolution. 00:25:24.729 --> 00:25:27.329 We know how you changed in your approach to your self development 00:25:27.339 --> 00:25:29.519 work and your work with your clients. 00:25:30.484 --> 00:25:33.854 But I know that you also had a big journey in terms of how you talk 00:25:33.864 --> 00:25:37.004 about your work, how you market your work, how you sell your work. 00:25:37.294 --> 00:25:38.734 What did it look like then? 00:25:38.794 --> 00:25:39.794 What does it look like now? 00:25:40.649 --> 00:25:44.459 Chantel Allen: You are a big help with us that I give so much credit to you 00:25:44.469 --> 00:25:48.539 with this because before again, it was kind of coming out of the box, right? 00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:50.339 I was told to do Facebook ads. 00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:52.759 I was told to do the webinar funnels. 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:54.319 I did all of those things. 00:25:54.639 --> 00:25:56.249 And again, I'm not, I'm not knocking it. 00:25:56.289 --> 00:25:57.769 I think it's got a place for it. 00:25:57.779 --> 00:26:00.909 It did help me to kind of sort of kind of figure out my voice 00:26:00.919 --> 00:26:05.049 at that time of, you know, how I can phrase it in a certain way. 00:26:05.589 --> 00:26:08.819 But the more mechanical I found out that I was with my marketing, 00:26:09.169 --> 00:26:10.559 the less people that I got. 00:26:11.054 --> 00:26:14.684 The way that I actually found more of my clients was relationship based. 00:26:15.144 --> 00:26:19.474 So doing live events, I had several live events here in my small town where 00:26:19.474 --> 00:26:20.954 I would have 50, 60 people show up. 00:26:20.954 --> 00:26:23.404 And that's where I got a majority of my clients to start. 00:26:23.664 --> 00:26:23.744 I 00:26:23.744 --> 00:26:24.354 Mark Butler: didn't know that. 00:26:24.394 --> 00:26:25.424 50 or 60. 00:26:25.714 --> 00:26:28.044 Chantel Allen: Yeah, I did lunch and learned like where you would have 00:26:28.044 --> 00:26:31.014 just ladies come over and we do a potluck and we would just do coaching 00:26:31.024 --> 00:26:32.534 no strings attached whatsoever. 00:26:32.534 --> 00:26:36.274 So I realized like my voice and people actually experiencing things 00:26:36.284 --> 00:26:38.294 or just a relationship in general. 00:26:38.719 --> 00:26:43.179 It's way more compelling than an ad that they're going to see or because 00:26:43.179 --> 00:26:46.649 I think about what resonates for me again, kind of being my own client 00:26:46.659 --> 00:26:49.099 here is like, I get so many emails. 00:26:49.169 --> 00:26:51.609 And again, if emails work for you, fantastic. 00:26:51.629 --> 00:26:53.199 But so many people put pressure. 00:26:53.229 --> 00:26:53.599 Mark Butler: I know. 00:26:53.629 --> 00:26:54.109 I'll say it. 00:26:54.139 --> 00:26:54.509 I'll say it. 00:26:54.509 --> 00:26:56.359 If other people won't, they don't work. 00:26:56.399 --> 00:26:56.569 They 00:26:56.569 --> 00:26:56.889 Chantel Allen: don't work. 00:26:57.859 --> 00:27:00.609 Mark Butler: The emails that you're talking about that we both know. 00:27:00.699 --> 00:27:01.269 Chantel Allen: Yes. 00:27:01.389 --> 00:27:02.649 Mark Butler: Like act now. 00:27:02.649 --> 00:27:03.359 And yes. 00:27:04.034 --> 00:27:05.584 Chantel Allen: Yeah, they don't work well. 00:27:05.584 --> 00:27:07.904 And not only that, I don't look at people's emails. 00:27:07.974 --> 00:27:12.404 Like I, why do I expect my people to open emails if I'm not opening up emails? 00:27:12.414 --> 00:27:14.264 Mark Butler: Those emails train us to ignore them. 00:27:15.174 --> 00:27:16.464 Chantel Allen: Oh, that's a good 00:27:16.464 --> 00:27:17.034 Mark Butler: point. 00:27:17.114 --> 00:27:18.164 They train us. 00:27:18.174 --> 00:27:21.124 I know what's in that message before I open it. 00:27:21.344 --> 00:27:24.284 And it's you asking me for something. 00:27:24.654 --> 00:27:25.354 So true. 00:27:25.884 --> 00:27:27.594 You've trained me to ignore you. 00:27:27.804 --> 00:27:28.244 So true. 00:27:28.244 --> 00:27:34.534 Whereas we can send emails where conscious or unconscious, they know, I know that 00:27:34.544 --> 00:27:37.084 you've got something in there for me. 00:27:38.024 --> 00:27:38.224 Yeah. 00:27:38.224 --> 00:27:39.164 And that's the one we open. 00:27:40.074 --> 00:27:40.694 Chantel Allen: Exactly. 00:27:40.724 --> 00:27:43.424 And I just, so I, for a long time I did that, you know, you know, all 00:27:43.424 --> 00:27:46.354 the emails and everything, but I came back to like, what works for me. 00:27:46.424 --> 00:27:50.444 And so now I'm back to, for one, I don't market at all. 00:27:50.464 --> 00:27:52.914 I don't have anything that I put out there. 00:27:52.934 --> 00:27:54.284 I just have my simple podcast. 00:27:54.314 --> 00:27:57.254 I have Instagram that I'm trying and playing around with, but it's 00:27:57.264 --> 00:27:59.144 not to get something anymore. 00:27:59.154 --> 00:28:02.814 It's more of like, I'm just putting things out there that like is on my 00:28:02.814 --> 00:28:04.264 mind that I'm like, you know what? 00:28:04.544 --> 00:28:06.344 I think this would really benefit somebody. 00:28:06.694 --> 00:28:07.934 And it's been interesting. 00:28:07.954 --> 00:28:09.414 The more fun I've been having with it. 00:28:09.414 --> 00:28:10.184 I've been doing reels. 00:28:10.204 --> 00:28:12.584 I hate reels, by the way, I remember I was talking about this when it 00:28:12.594 --> 00:28:13.974 first came out with like the pointing. 00:28:13.984 --> 00:28:16.824 We're like, I will never do any of that stuff. 00:28:17.764 --> 00:28:21.294 But I've been having fun with just like other, I have like Harry Potter inside 00:28:21.294 --> 00:28:26.854 my reels, or I have Channing Tatum inside my, like, I'm having fun making fun of. 00:28:27.314 --> 00:28:30.884 Coaching and, and like, it feels good to me and it's, I've been getting 00:28:30.884 --> 00:28:32.414 so many more conversations about it. 00:28:32.914 --> 00:28:36.754 So I think it's just like finding what works for you and making that fun. 00:28:36.774 --> 00:28:37.784 I think that's the biggest thing. 00:28:37.784 --> 00:28:39.934 If it's not fun, then don't, don't try it. 00:28:39.934 --> 00:28:42.374 And if you have an agenda, I think that's the other thing. 00:28:42.864 --> 00:28:43.774 Then it's not going to work too. 00:28:43.774 --> 00:28:46.314 If you're trying to get six clients in a month or whatever it is. 00:28:46.904 --> 00:28:51.844 This, I don't know, it doesn't work, so I think it's just showing up and 00:28:51.854 --> 00:28:52.844 serving and that's where I'm at. 00:28:52.874 --> 00:28:53.974 Just relationships. 00:28:54.264 --> 00:28:58.274 I do, if I, if I have any kind of agenda, I do try and have several 00:28:58.274 --> 00:28:59.914 conversations with people a month. 00:28:59.954 --> 00:29:00.814 That's kind of my goal. 00:29:00.814 --> 00:29:02.994 It's like, Hey, I just want to reach out to this past client that 00:29:02.994 --> 00:29:05.234 I haven't talked to in a year. 00:29:05.234 --> 00:29:06.694 And just, Hey, I just want to touch base. 00:29:06.984 --> 00:29:09.344 And it's interesting how those can lead to. 00:29:10.114 --> 00:29:12.104 people wanting to sign up again because I've changed. 00:29:12.134 --> 00:29:12.934 I've changed. 00:29:12.944 --> 00:29:13.574 They've changed. 00:29:13.574 --> 00:29:14.524 They're in a new place. 00:29:15.124 --> 00:29:15.984 It's just been great. 00:29:16.034 --> 00:29:18.754 Just having no agenda conversations with people. 00:29:18.754 --> 00:29:22.774 That's been way more of a selling point than anything I can do online. 00:29:22.954 --> 00:29:23.894 Mark Butler: That's so good, 00:29:24.144 --> 00:29:25.134 Chantel Allen: but that's from you, Mark. 00:29:25.134 --> 00:29:28.004 I will tell you that you're the person that helped me figure that out. 00:29:28.324 --> 00:29:29.774 Because for me, that's again, I wasn't 00:29:29.774 --> 00:29:30.634 Mark Butler: saying it's so good. 00:29:31.914 --> 00:29:34.664 Chantel Allen: Well, but again, it's like, that feels out of control. 00:29:34.674 --> 00:29:37.654 Like the control person to me is like, just have relationships. 00:29:37.654 --> 00:29:38.964 Like there's nothing that I can. 00:29:39.269 --> 00:29:41.929 Like grab onto and say, this is the thing that works. 00:29:41.949 --> 00:29:44.909 Whereas everybody else is saying like, do these Facebook ads and 00:29:44.909 --> 00:29:46.199 you're supposed to get this results. 00:29:46.399 --> 00:29:50.149 So it felt scary to lean into something that there is not as much control 00:29:50.149 --> 00:29:52.609 into it, but for some reason it works. 00:29:52.659 --> 00:29:54.779 Mark Butler: Well, when we talked a couple of weeks ago, you said a higher 00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:58.289 percentage of your, new clients recently have come directly from referrals. 00:29:58.439 --> 00:29:58.739 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:29:59.219 --> 00:30:00.409 Every one of them actually. 00:30:00.769 --> 00:30:01.109 Mark Butler: Really? 00:30:01.349 --> 00:30:01.599 Chantel Allen: Yep. 00:30:01.659 --> 00:30:02.619 Every single one of them. 00:30:02.929 --> 00:30:06.029 Mark Butler: Referrals from, I mean, I gave you a referral recently. 00:30:06.249 --> 00:30:06.509 Yep. 00:30:06.569 --> 00:30:07.699 Other clients 00:30:08.439 --> 00:30:11.459 Chantel Allen: or they're, they, they were in the coaching group that 00:30:11.459 --> 00:30:13.769 I was in, that I coached in before. 00:30:13.769 --> 00:30:16.709 And they're like, I heard from another friend that was in the coaching group 00:30:16.729 --> 00:30:19.589 that you're coaching on this, you know, so it's just been like word of mouth. 00:30:20.369 --> 00:30:24.059 And again, I have no control over that, which is sometimes very scary, 00:30:24.069 --> 00:30:29.449 but it's, I like it way easier than having to come up with the funnels. 00:30:29.499 --> 00:30:30.849 Just all of the tech and everything. 00:30:32.114 --> 00:30:34.564 I'm kind of done trying to figure that all out. 00:30:35.184 --> 00:30:37.224 Mark Butler: No control, but a ton of influence. 00:30:37.294 --> 00:30:38.464 And that's the difference. 00:30:38.964 --> 00:30:39.634 Chantel Allen: And it's fun. 00:30:39.954 --> 00:30:43.224 Like that's, I think we say that as coaches, Oh, we're 00:30:43.224 --> 00:30:44.334 just doing this to have fun. 00:30:45.124 --> 00:30:47.754 But I don't think we actually really believe that. 00:30:47.804 --> 00:30:49.274 And it's like, no, we don't. 00:30:49.294 --> 00:30:51.444 Again, going back to your character of like, you got to go first. 00:30:51.454 --> 00:30:54.364 If you really want people to be compelled to you, show people that you're having 00:30:54.364 --> 00:30:56.064 fun in your life and in your business. 00:30:56.084 --> 00:30:59.514 Cause I wouldn't want to work with somebody that's like all business and 00:30:59.514 --> 00:31:04.179 strict and looks like they're burning the lamp at both sides or whatever. 00:31:04.249 --> 00:31:05.339 It's not compelling to me. 00:31:05.989 --> 00:31:06.619 Mark Butler: Great stuff. 00:31:07.589 --> 00:31:09.029 This is why I wanted you on the show. 00:31:09.919 --> 00:31:11.719 Chantel Allen: That's what I love that you're doing this series 00:31:11.719 --> 00:31:13.389 because conversations are what sell. 00:31:13.779 --> 00:31:15.659 It's not that I'm saying people are going to come to me from this, but 00:31:15.659 --> 00:31:17.169 it's just, this is what's compelling. 00:31:17.179 --> 00:31:21.089 Real conversations, no agenda, no, like outline of trying to sell a 00:31:21.089 --> 00:31:22.369 value system or anything like that. 00:31:22.369 --> 00:31:25.179 It's just, it's real people having conversations. 00:31:25.349 --> 00:31:27.709 Mark Butler: We don't know that from you appearing on this particular 00:31:27.709 --> 00:31:30.359 podcast in this particular episode, we don't know that there's going to be a 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:32.159 straight line from that to a client. 00:31:32.479 --> 00:31:32.779 Right. 00:31:32.899 --> 00:31:37.509 But we do know that this type of activity will produce clients. 00:31:37.629 --> 00:31:39.179 That's the thing you can count on. 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:39.659 Yes. 00:31:39.669 --> 00:31:44.899 If I continue to act this way and be this way, I will end up happy with the result. 00:31:45.384 --> 00:31:49.124 Whether or not any individual thing produces a specific 00:31:49.124 --> 00:31:50.484 result in a specific timeframe. 00:31:51.164 --> 00:31:53.084 Chantel Allen: Well, I think you did this on a couple weeks ago on 00:31:53.084 --> 00:31:54.534 your podcast with the launch, right? 00:31:54.534 --> 00:31:57.294 If you're going into a launch looking for a particular outcome 00:31:57.294 --> 00:32:00.104 or whatever, you're going to be disappointed every single time. 00:32:00.104 --> 00:32:02.364 So if I went into this conversation being like, I'm going to get so many 00:32:02.364 --> 00:32:03.764 clients out of this or whatever. 00:32:04.349 --> 00:32:08.159 I would be so much more weird on our conversation and it's just everything. 00:32:08.159 --> 00:32:11.289 And so it's, it is, it's letting go of that outcome and just showing 00:32:11.289 --> 00:32:15.649 up as myself, take it or leave it basically and trusting it. 00:32:17.729 --> 00:32:18.569 Mark Butler: Thank you for doing this. 00:32:18.994 --> 00:32:19.294 Chantel Allen: Yeah. 00:32:19.294 --> 00:32:19.654 Thank you. 00:32:19.914 --> 00:32:20.694 This has been fun. 00:32:20.744 --> 00:32:21.744 I want more of these. 00:32:23.574 --> 00:32:24.484 Mark Butler: Well, thank you, my friend. 00:32:24.764 --> 00:32:25.094 Yeah. 00:32:25.124 --> 00:32:25.784 This has been fun. 00:32:26.514 --> 00:32:27.694 You've got a call to get to. 00:32:28.154 --> 00:32:28.604 I do.