Hey, this is Mark Butler and you are listening to a podcast for coaches.
This week's episode.
Is a conversation with a friend.
Her name is Shantelle Allen.
She has been a coach since 2018 or 2019.
Shantelle started out as an acquaintance.
Then she became a client and now.
She's definitely a family friend.
Kate, and I have gotten to know her and appreciate her.
And so I'm very happy to bring Shantelle to you.
I wanted to bring her on the podcast because I've watched her go through
multiple evolutions in her practice.
And in spite of the fact that she is a very type, a high achieving
striver, she calls herself.
She's been very open to new ways of being throughout the five or six
years that she's been in practice.
And I can see how it benefits her and now it has benefited her clients.
And so for that reason, I wanted to share Shantelle and her work with you.
So let's get in to this conversation.
Mark Butler: I think we met in 2018 or 19,
Chantel Allen: 18, 18, 18.
Last time I've coached school was live in person.
Mark Butler: Did we meet there?
Chantel Allen: Yeah.
We went to life coach training, you were an instructor there.
Kate was going through at the same time.
I think it was later in 2019 that we did a lunch with.
With you.
And we just like picked your brain like crazy.
And you were so open and willing for us just to kind of dive
into the, the mind of Mark.
And then we kind of, that's when we started to do the free calls.
But then also I think we did that mastermind right after that with you too.
Mark Butler: Oh, that.
Yep.
That's right.
So yeah.
So Chantelle has been my client.
We've, we've done some coaching together.
You're an interesting character for me in my coaching universe, because
you exemplify and you model a way of being that I think is amazing.
There are coaches who find their way into their, their coaching community.
They adopt the way of being that's taught and supported by that coaching community.
That's what they bring.
They build their business around it.
work with their clients in the way that community prescribes.
And, that's it.
They just kind of hang out there long term.
I don't think it's a bad way of being, but it's not your way of being.
Chantel Allen: Well, and if I'm being honest, I did start there.
Like, I think everybody kind of walking out of the environment that
we kind of walked out of I think a natural tendency is to follow what
you're prescribed to do and try it.
But I think I found out very quickly it didn't work for me.
And so, I think it was, I mean, I'm going to give you credit here.
You helped me step outside of that box.
Because it was a very scary place to be to say, I'm not
going to do it the same formula.
I'm going to allow myself to try something different and just see what happens.
I'm still learning.
I still haven't figured it all out, but I think it's an easier place to be rather
than going based off of what everybody else tells us is the way to do it.
Mark Butler: I want to have people hear some of the specific,
, steps along that journey.
One of the reasons you're so compelling to me is that I consider you high achieving
I would probably call you type a like straight A students rule following.
Yes.
And that's who you, that's who you came into coaching as.
Yes.
I'm not criticizing that.
That's strength.
Yeah, totally.
That's why it's so interesting to me that bringing that DNA and that
personality into your coaching life, you did give yourself permission to
break the rules of one community and continue to be on your own exploration
and find your own way of being.
Talk about that evolution and however much detail you want.
Chantel Allen: Well, I, I think the biggest thing that I've had to learn is.
I had to go first.
I thought everybody else had the answers for me.
And so I had to realize I was the best client for myself.
So I started doing things in the thought work land.
That's kind of what we walked out of life coach school.
And I started to notice for myself, I would apply and do some of these
tools and it wasn't working for me.
So I'm like, why would I, why would I approach this with my clients?
If, if I'm trying to do this work and it's, I'm not getting
traction, I'm not getting results.
Like we claim right as coaches and so by my own integrity, by my own
authenticity, I just knew something was missing and for a while it was a
very scary place to be because again, you're like stepping outside the box.
You're kind of going against what all the other.
And I say that lightly, not all coaches are the same, but going
against the model that we were taught.
And, but I realized like, once I started to allow myself to have that voice
and to kind of coach in that way, I attracted so many other people that
are like, Oh my gosh, I'm so grateful.
You're finally saying it this way, because I've noticed.
I've hit a peak with ThoughtWork, or I've, you know, it doesn't work like
the, they all claim it should, or I'm just stagnant, or whatever it is.
And I think that's just it, is I've been willing to go first every single time.
It's not that I let somebody else's model tell me that's where I needed to go.
it's, I'm going to see what's working for me.
And then I bring that into my coaching.
And so it's changing all the time.
Like I look at where I was last year, even to today, ,, we were
talking a couple of weeks ago.
I'm like, I've had this falling apart again in the last couple of
months, but I think it's again, been leading my coaching to going to some
place that I think is going to be awesome to kind of play around with.
But yeah, it's just, I go first every single time.
So that's been my journey.
And it's scary because I don't have it figured out.
I don't have it.
Perfect.
And I think sometimes that's something that stops us.
Mark Butler: Speaking of that fear, I'm curious if you have a memory of when, so
you'd been taught a certain way of being, you'd been taught a certain approach.
You started to feel like it wasn't delivering what you thought
it was supposed to deliver.
Right.
Curious about that season.
Yeah.
What did that season look like for you where you're kind of coming out
of this like, Oh, those tools, I see value in those tools, but they're
not doing quite what they're supposed They're supposed to, what does
that next season look like for you?
Chantel Allen: So it was the good old 2020 era, I think is
when I started to notice it.
I, so I love what you said that I'm a high achiever.
Yeah.
I will tell everybody I'm a high achiever type a, but most people that know that if
you're that way, you also struggle with being in tune with your emotions, right?
There's like this.
Yeah.
You're kind of numb, you're kind of cut off, which again, is a strength
because you can just get going on things.
But in 2020, here we were, we were all at home, and all of a sudden,
and I think everybody can relate to this, anxiety became at an
all time high for so many people.
And so you could tell them, Think this positive thought
or think this way or whatever.
And it, it wasn't working.
It wasn't working the way that we all thought it should.
And I was in the same place.
I was experiencing a ton of anxiety.
A burnout was like right on the cusp in my business because with
the, the pandemic, I had a flux of new clients that came into me.
So business was great, but it was, it was coming at a cost to my health.
And I was like, okay, there's gotta be something that breaks here and
I don't need it to be me again.
And so I started to play around with that and I started realizing
I'm telling myself I'm feeling my emotions, but I really am not.
So I went and got training in emotion work because I'm like, I think
this is the missing piece for me.
I think this is what I need to learn a little bit more.
And coming from being a striver, it was some of the scariest.
I still like, I still feel it's a little woo, but I say that to a lot of people.
I'm like, it's a little woo to me to kind of go there.
But , I saw the benefits and I'm like, Oh my gosh.
Okay.
If I'm seeing the benefits of understanding my emotions more,
then there's something here.
There's something here that I know can really, really benefit other
people that are just like me.
So in the 2020 realm, that's where I started to move.
I was coaching in another person's, coaching group at the time.
And I just started putting it into my coaching that people would hear.
And the feedback that I got almost immediately was like,
this is a breath of fresh air.
This is something that I have needed.
This makes so much more sense to me.
And so that's what kind of was the catapult.
Cause again, it was me.
I had to be the person that saw it first.
I was realizing I've hit a roadblock in coaching and, my
health and my relationships and just applying this new tool is what
took everything to the next level.
Mark Butler: My question is you're having these epiphanies and I like how you said
you're your own best client, but you have clients too, so you are using tools.
Teaching tools, on a podcast or in your content and, in your
community with your clients.
And then you're finding that those tools are lacking for you.
And then you're going to find new tools and you're adopting those tools
and experimenting with them, but you're doing all of this while there
are appointments on the calendar.
Yes.
How are you navigating that?
Chantel Allen: The biggest thing I've had to be open with is I tell people
like, I'm still figuring this out.
Like even when I get on a call with somebody, I had a, I had a consult just
the other week where someone was like, how do I know that this stuff even works?
And I'm like, you don't.
You just have to, again, there's not a Holy grail.
So I, I'm constantly telling my clients, like I'm trying new things
and I will constantly bring what I am learning into our coaching.
But again, if it's not a Holy grail, if it's not a one size fits all, I
just look at it as my coaching changes.
We're just giving them different tools in their tool belt.
So someone that was my client when I was in the thought work realm, it
doesn't mean I did it all wrong or they didn't get anything out of it.
It's like, you know what?
That was awesome.
Now we can try this and we're going to try and apply this.
And it's been so good in that way, because not that you want people
to keep coming back, but they come back because they know there's other
ways that we can look into this.
Mark Butler: The way you're saying that makes me think that you weren't
making yourself wrong for having done it a different way and then,
and then doing something new.
Was it never a struggle?
Did you never have issues with that?
Chantel Allen: I did at the very beginning.
So when I was, especially coaching and another coaches.
group because she hired me to be this way.
Like I thought for sure she was hiring me for my style that I was before.
So I had a lot of cognitive dissonance of just like, you know, I should be
like this, but I'm really compelled.
I was sure I was going to get fired years ago because I was
doing something different.
So I definitely had.
the internal battle with that.
Cause I'm like, I mean, you and I've had many conversations
about that, of what do I do?
Cause I got a lot of my clients from being in that, that coach's group for a while.
So I was so worried that, yeah, I'm getting all of these clients from this.
And then she's going to let me go.
Cause I'm so different than everybody else.
, what am I going to do?
But I also am like, this just feels right to me.
I think that's where Coaching becomes hard or business becomes hard is when we're
doing things that we should versus what we feel compelled and, and want to do.
So I've noticed it.
Yeah.
It is still as a struggle.
Like I still see other people.
I put out a podcast on mine last week.
That push up against the coaching industry.
And I was so nervous about the feedback and the pushback.
But at the same time, I'm like, that's what calls to me.
So I listened to that part.
That's like, you're, you're going to, something's going to happen to you if
you say this, or you coach in this way.
But I also know there's a lot of people that resonate with what I have to say.
And I'm not for everybody.
Like, that's my thing is I'm not for everybody.
I'm not trying to get everybody.
I'm just trying to find the people that align with what and how I do coaching.
Mark Butler: When you talk about burnout and the possibility
of burnout The expensive part there is the self deception.
Yes It's so internally costly to feel that one thing is true But
to be acting as though something else is true is true or is better.
Yep.
It's so expensive mentally and emotionally.
And that I think is what produces burnout.
Chantel Allen: At the very beginning, I think that struggle that I had
is this narrative of you just need to believe harder, right?
If you're not getting the results, you just need to believe harder.
And that, I had so much pushback on that, of like, okay, that, is that true?
Like I must, I just need to believe harder so I can get different results.
And it just didn't feel right.
So yeah, I was, I think everybody, it's normal for us to have that fight
within ourselves of like, is that true?
Or is what I'm thinking is true?
But yeah.
I don't know.
I think that's just part of the journey.
I think all of the time.
Mark Butler: One of the important things to me is that when you came
up against that and you said, I'm not finding enough evidence for that way
of being, that's a fork in the road.
And tragically, too many people.
at that fork in the road, they choose a path that's called, I
must be wrong and bad and terrible.
And I think it, I think it's really harmful, hurtful, painful, because
what, what they're saying is, Oh, if the message is just believe harder,
and I think I'm believing harder, but the result isn't changing.
That must mean that I'm bad or wrong.
Something's wrong with me.
Yeah.
But the other path at that fork in the road is I'm not bad or wrong,
so I'm going to find something else that's more effective
Chantel Allen: for me.
If you go down the side that allows you to step into yourself, it's actually easier.
It's when you lean into what you believe is truth or what everybody
else is telling you to do.
That actually is harder.
You're swimming upstream.
You know, you're trying to prove yourself in the coaching world versus
letting yourself kind of go down the other side of the fork and just
saying like, my side is working.
I just got to fine tune it.
I got to figure out the ors or the whatever, but it does work.
I just got to figure that part out.
So, and that's scary because it's not like everybody else
Mark Butler: So you're making this transition from, one way
of being to another and you're doing it all while having clients
and you're feeling the fear.
How often did it come into your mind to just bail on the whole
thing and just be like, I'm out.
Chantel Allen: If I'm being very honest, I have that every couple of months.
Okay.
It still happens.
Yeah.
It still totally happens.
That's why I was saying when we talked a couple weeks ago, I was like,
yeah, just came from a falling apart.
And I, it's a decision I have to constantly make in my business of
like, Hey, I'm doing this again.
But I, yeah, I think it still is a struggle.
I, but what I've come to realize is.
When that time happens, it's not a bad thing, like I used to have so much
shame around it of like, well, maybe I'm doubting my business or I want to quit
and that's a sign that I need to listen to it or I need to, and I'm taking it as now
just like, no, maybe I need to slow down.
Maybe I need to look at some of the systems that I'm trying and decide
again if I really want to do them.
But.
It's not a quitting thing anymore.
It's just more of like, I just need a breath or I just need to realign in a
different way or something like that.
Mark Butler: Are you describing the falling apart experience?
Is that what that looks like?
Chantel Allen: Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
I literally, so I was again, Stryver right in my podcast.
I've been doing it for.
Five years.
And I'm that perfectionist, right?
So the coaches told us for so long, you need to do it consistently
every single month, every single week at a certain time, have your
people know that it's coming out.
Last year, when I had some issues happen in my coaching
business, I literally let that go.
I let that fall apart.
And it was the scariest thing, but it was such a breath of fresh air.
At the same time, I gave myself permission to stop doing some of the
things that I was told I needed to do and then read aside, recommit to it.
So I'm still doing it again.
But it's so different.
I may not put it out every week.
And that's so different than where I was like three years ago, where I was
like, I have to do it every single week.
It's now that falling apart gave me permission to again, show up when I
wanted to show up and not have to be perfect and consistent all of the time.
And I think it's even better now because now when I show up, it's
on purpose because I want to versus, oh, I should, or I have to.
Mark Butler: That sounds like a transition from a fear
motivation to a love motivation.
Chantel Allen: Absolutely.
And I do think like, I noticed even the money issue, money has been such
an issue for me for since starting.
Cause I was, I mean, it's a business we want to make money from it.
But before there was this narrative of like, you got to keep going and
double your income and double your income and double whatever in this.
You know, you're supposed to, whatever, every single time that
fear again in comparison led me to like, I'm doing it all wrong.
I'm not doing it right or whatever.
As soon as I let that go and I just show up, right, that's when everything
just started to work, which goes totally against what my brain and
this driver wants me to believe.
It's just like, it tells me I have to keep going, but no, as
soon as you let things fall apart.
It becomes easy.
That's pretty good.
Mark Butler: That's pretty good.
Talk to me about ,, the changes in your approach.
I know you started with what you're calling this very
thought work, very cognitive.
Yep.
Approach with yourself and with your clients.
Then you talked about pursuing an emotions training.
Keep going with that conversation.
How are you different in your approach to coaching than you were five years ago?
Chantel Allen: So yes, I did thought training.
I still use it.
I think again, it's got some benefits to, to be able to question our thoughts
and to be able to recognize our stories, but I don't go heavy laden into it.
It's not that we have to look at every single thing because I also
find kind of what we were saying is I went to emotion training.
So now I bring in emotion work to it and helping people to awaken to their
emotions, know what their emotions are.
But even now, so that's some of the falling apart that happened.
I am noticing and I would love to hear your thoughts on this too, Mark, but
I have noticed in the coaching world that it, I would say self development.
I don't want to just say this is just coaching, but self development
we swung from being a very, we had to actually teach people to
be selfish at the very beginning.
I would say five years ago of like, Hey, it's okay for you to be selfish.
Cause that was me.
That was totally me.
If like, It's okay for you to be selfish, to work on yourself, to
in, you know, invest in yourself.
But now I've seen it swing to the other side where now we're like over
the top and people are becoming too, and I say this lightly, too selfish.
And we see our kids kind of growing up this way, only talking about their
problems, only focusing on their emotions, having to heal every single little thing.
And so I, not that I even know the balance yet.
But even in my coaching, I'm trying to find where I don't swing one
side or the other of like, yes, we have to solve every problem.
We have to feel every emotion.
It's, can we figure that out?
Turn on the lights.
But then my thing is like, get up and go, go live your life.
Go be with people.
Think about other people instead of it being that I have to be on
an Island by myself and figure this out before I can go live my life.
So that's, I don't even have it all figured out.
And that's, I've told that to so many of the people that I'm starting to work with.
I'm like, I don't know yet what this is.
I even have a coaching group that I've told them like, we're going to try some
different calls and you guys are going to tell me like this resonates, this doesn't.
So I don't even know what that looks like exactly yet.
I just, I'm constantly listening to that.
I'm kind of watching.
What I'm seeing in my clients.
I'm watching and what's he in my own family and saying like, okay I don't
want to be a part of the problem I want to make sure that what I do really does
help I don't ever want to regret the way that I approach things and say like
because of what I did This may have caused more problems than then good.
Mark Butler: Self obsession is not positive.
It's really about our character development who am I becoming?
What is the nature of my character?
Am I becoming a better and better person?
Which isn't it crazy?
That to invite people to become better people Would sound so weird in a
coaching or a therapeutic environment.
Chantel Allen: Yeah, no, I totally agree.
You just don't hear it.
Mark Butler: And I think one of the reasons you don't hear it is that people
are more afraid than ever of claiming a dogma or claiming,, a specific philosophy
and saying, I'm organizing my life around living this philosophy and growing
within this philosophy like a faith.
So for me, what you said is beautiful.
It's like, I'm going to use thought work because thought work helps me become
a dispassionate observer of what's flowing through my head and how it's
impacting my emotional state and how it's impacting my behaviors and choices.
That's incredibly powerful.
I will always be so grateful to the life coach school and to Brooke
Castillo for helping me shine a light on that in a way that I'd
never, certainly never had before.
And I also think it's not the complete picture.
Then we get into emotions because our, our experience of life is emotion.
And so learning to feel those emotions and understand them and
figure out what information they have for us, incredibly powerful.
But then we take both of those things.
We take thought work and we take emotional work.
And where we really want to apply those things is in character development.
Yes.
How do I use thought work and emotions work to become a better person, to become
happier in my relationships, healthier in my relationships, to be of higher service
to my small community and to the world at large, all the work has to be in service
of becoming something that we aren't yet.
Even though we're good and we're we're worthy and etc.
This isn't about going from unworthy to worthy.
It's about going for it., Less developed to more developed.
Chantel Allen: Right.
Well, and I think back to the very beginning with coaching, I
used to say that phrase of like, we got to help you be selfish.
So you could be self less.
I would say that all of the time, but that's kind of gotten lost in
all of this of like, yes, be selfish.
Like I love coaching because it helps us, like you said, know the power of our
thoughts, know the power of our emotions, but we've kind of forgotten that selfless.
And I'm calling myself out here too.
It's I've kind of been so focused on myself sometimes that.
It, it's created this place where it's all about me, right?
So we need to get back to the selfless place and being out there
serving the world, bringing us to it so that we can help other people.
Because, so many people are lonely right now.
That loneliness is on, is an epidemic and it's, why?
Because we're so focused on ourselves and our problems and our emotions
and we forget that we can just, we can notice those, but get up
and go, go serve other people, go Bring your light to other people.
Mark Butler: Yeah, this is outside my lane of expertise.
So this is just hearsay But I have heard that when people have been
diagnosed with real depression one of the best Prescriptions is service.
Yeah, Jordan.
I think
Chantel Allen: said that Jordan Peterson.
Mark Butler: Oh, did he?
Yeah,
Chantel Allen: pretty sure He said
Mark Butler: you hear that you think well, yeah, of course
Chantel Allen: But
Mark Butler: Kate and Charlie, my wife and son, they just got
back from a trip to Mexico where they were part of a big group.
And in three days they built a house for a family, from scratch,
no house before house after.
Wow.
That's so cool.
And my 16 year old son comes home.
He went in bad attitude.
Of course he's 16.
He came home glowing.
That's so cool.
He's like, dad, I just.
I just, I want to be back there tomorrow.
That's so cool.
Yeah, of course you do.
You feel amazing.
You helped.
Yeah.
So I think our work, our thought work, whatever our particular modality
is,
it will fall flat if it's ultimately in service of self obsession, but it will
flourish if it's in service of becoming a more developed person who's of greater,
you know, who has greater enjoyments, richer life experience, and is of higher.
Service to to humanity.
I think that's the next evolution because we have too many examples now of people
who , you know my I don't know if i've ever said this on the podcast, but We
we know that one of the main or two of the main goals of certain coaching
philosophies is, you know, skinny and rich
And now we have plenty of examples of skinny rich miserable people
so it's not that we're anti fitness, and it's not that we're anti wealth.
Right.
It's that we know that when we pursue them for, empty
reasons, they are empty results.
Chantel Allen: Well, and again, it kind of goes back to
where I'm at with my coaching.
Like I said, that consult that I had a couple weeks ago where this person's
like, well, what, what, what am I going to get from coaching with you?
And I'm like, I don't know, like I'm not selling a result.
And I think that goes totally against the marketing of like, well, you have
to have a result that you're selling.
And of course I talked to him about what would be different, but
it's not this flashy bang, bang of like, you're going to make.
You know, 6, 000 in the next two weeks working with me, or
you're going to lose 20 pounds.
And I had a lot of drama about that.
I was like, I have to figure out what it is that I'm selling that compels people.
And I think again, not that I'm trying to sell myself here, but it's just like,
I think the way that I approach my life now, that's the selling component of it.
It's not that I have to go and sell people.
It's just like, you see what I'm doing.
You see that I'm out serving.
And that compels people.
And I think we forget that as coaches is we think we have to sell the product.
And it's like, you're selling you, you're, you're the example of kind of
what you're saying, the character, right?
Be the example of the character, be selfless.
That's going to compel way more clients to you than any marketing scheme
that you could ever come up with.
Mark Butler: I really want to hear you talk about that evolution.
We know how you changed in your approach to your self development
work and your work with your clients.
But I know that you also had a big journey in terms of how you talk
about your work, how you market your work, how you sell your work.
What did it look like then?
What does it look like now?
Chantel Allen: You are a big help with us that I give so much credit to you
with this because before again, it was kind of coming out of the box, right?
I was told to do Facebook ads.
I was told to do the webinar funnels.
I did all of those things.
And again, I'm not, I'm not knocking it.
I think it's got a place for it.
It did help me to kind of sort of kind of figure out my voice
at that time of, you know, how I can phrase it in a certain way.
But the more mechanical I found out that I was with my marketing,
the less people that I got.
The way that I actually found more of my clients was relationship based.
So doing live events, I had several live events here in my small town where
I would have 50, 60 people show up.
And that's where I got a majority of my clients to start.
I
Mark Butler: didn't know that.
50 or 60.
Chantel Allen: Yeah, I did lunch and learned like where you would have
just ladies come over and we do a potluck and we would just do coaching
no strings attached whatsoever.
So I realized like my voice and people actually experiencing things
or just a relationship in general.
It's way more compelling than an ad that they're going to see or because
I think about what resonates for me again, kind of being my own client
here is like, I get so many emails.
And again, if emails work for you, fantastic.
But so many people put pressure.
Mark Butler: I know.
I'll say it.
If other people won't, they don't work.
They
Chantel Allen: don't work.
Mark Butler: The emails that you're talking about that we both know.
Chantel Allen: Yes.
Mark Butler: Like act now.
And yes.
Chantel Allen: Yeah, they don't work well.
And not only that, I don't look at people's emails.
Like I, why do I expect my people to open emails if I'm not opening up emails?
Mark Butler: Those emails train us to ignore them.
Chantel Allen: Oh, that's a good
Mark Butler: point.
They train us.
I know what's in that message before I open it.
And it's you asking me for something.
So true.
You've trained me to ignore you.
So true.
Whereas we can send emails where conscious or unconscious, they know, I know that
you've got something in there for me.
Yeah.
And that's the one we open.
Chantel Allen: Exactly.
And I just, so I, for a long time I did that, you know, you know, all
the emails and everything, but I came back to like, what works for me.
And so now I'm back to, for one, I don't market at all.
I don't have anything that I put out there.
I just have my simple podcast.
I have Instagram that I'm trying and playing around with, but it's
not to get something anymore.
It's more of like, I'm just putting things out there that like is on my
mind that I'm like, you know what?
I think this would really benefit somebody.
And it's been interesting.
The more fun I've been having with it.
I've been doing reels.
I hate reels, by the way, I remember I was talking about this when it
first came out with like the pointing.
We're like, I will never do any of that stuff.
But I've been having fun with just like other, I have like Harry Potter inside
my reels, or I have Channing Tatum inside my, like, I'm having fun making fun of.
Coaching and, and like, it feels good to me and it's, I've been getting
so many more conversations about it.
So I think it's just like finding what works for you and making that fun.
I think that's the biggest thing.
If it's not fun, then don't, don't try it.
And if you have an agenda, I think that's the other thing.
Then it's not going to work too.
If you're trying to get six clients in a month or whatever it is.
This, I don't know, it doesn't work, so I think it's just showing up and
serving and that's where I'm at.
Just relationships.
I do, if I, if I have any kind of agenda, I do try and have several
conversations with people a month.
That's kind of my goal.
It's like, Hey, I just want to reach out to this past client that
I haven't talked to in a year.
And just, Hey, I just want to touch base.
And it's interesting how those can lead to.
people wanting to sign up again because I've changed.
I've changed.
They've changed.
They're in a new place.
It's just been great.
Just having no agenda conversations with people.
That's been way more of a selling point than anything I can do online.
Mark Butler: That's so good,
Chantel Allen: but that's from you, Mark.
I will tell you that you're the person that helped me figure that out.
Because for me, that's again, I wasn't
Mark Butler: saying it's so good.
Chantel Allen: Well, but again, it's like, that feels out of control.
Like the control person to me is like, just have relationships.
Like there's nothing that I can.
Like grab onto and say, this is the thing that works.
Whereas everybody else is saying like, do these Facebook ads and
you're supposed to get this results.
So it felt scary to lean into something that there is not as much control
into it, but for some reason it works.
Mark Butler: Well, when we talked a couple of weeks ago, you said a higher
percentage of your, new clients recently have come directly from referrals.
Chantel Allen: Yeah.
Every one of them actually.
Mark Butler: Really?
Chantel Allen: Yep.
Every single one of them.
Mark Butler: Referrals from, I mean, I gave you a referral recently.
Yep.
Other clients
Chantel Allen: or they're, they, they were in the coaching group that
I was in, that I coached in before.
And they're like, I heard from another friend that was in the coaching group
that you're coaching on this, you know, so it's just been like word of mouth.
And again, I have no control over that, which is sometimes very scary,
but it's, I like it way easier than having to come up with the funnels.
Just all of the tech and everything.
I'm kind of done trying to figure that all out.
Mark Butler: No control, but a ton of influence.
And that's the difference.
Chantel Allen: And it's fun.
Like that's, I think we say that as coaches, Oh, we're
just doing this to have fun.
But I don't think we actually really believe that.
And it's like, no, we don't.
Again, going back to your character of like, you got to go first.
If you really want people to be compelled to you, show people that you're having
fun in your life and in your business.
Cause I wouldn't want to work with somebody that's like all business and
strict and looks like they're burning the lamp at both sides or whatever.
It's not compelling to me.
Mark Butler: Great stuff.
This is why I wanted you on the show.
Chantel Allen: That's what I love that you're doing this series
because conversations are what sell.
It's not that I'm saying people are going to come to me from this, but
it's just, this is what's compelling.
Real conversations, no agenda, no, like outline of trying to sell a
value system or anything like that.
It's just, it's real people having conversations.
Mark Butler: We don't know that from you appearing on this particular
podcast in this particular episode, we don't know that there's going to be a
straight line from that to a client.
Right.
But we do know that this type of activity will produce clients.
That's the thing you can count on.
Yes.
If I continue to act this way and be this way, I will end up happy with the result.
Whether or not any individual thing produces a specific
result in a specific timeframe.
Chantel Allen: Well, I think you did this on a couple weeks ago on
your podcast with the launch, right?
If you're going into a launch looking for a particular outcome
or whatever, you're going to be disappointed every single time.
So if I went into this conversation being like, I'm going to get so many
clients out of this or whatever.
I would be so much more weird on our conversation and it's just everything.
And so it's, it is, it's letting go of that outcome and just showing
up as myself, take it or leave it basically and trusting it.
Mark Butler: Thank you for doing this.
Chantel Allen: Yeah.
Thank you.
This has been fun.
I want more of these.
Mark Butler: Well, thank you, my friend.
Yeah.
This has been fun.
You've got a call to get to.
I do.