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today we are talking

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about pricing.

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Getting your pricing

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strategy right can make

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or break market share.

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Great product marketers know

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that well executed strategy

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doesn't just drive revenue.

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It shapes perception,

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influences adoption, and can

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determine whether your product

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wins or loses in the market.

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You know, pricing strategy

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is one of the most

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powerful but very often

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overlooked, levers in the

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product marketing world.

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And that's because in

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many companies, pricing

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doesn't actually sit

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within product marketing.

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Sometimes it falls under

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finance or product, or

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even sales, which means

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a lot of pmms don't get

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hands-on experience.

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But if and when you

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need to own pricing,

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you need to follow an

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expert to do it right.

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With that, it is my

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pleasure to have n

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Nupur Vilas on the show.

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I have been enamored

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with N Nupur's work

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ever since I met her.

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Let me tell you why.

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Nupur is the current head

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of product marketing at a

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company called Kustomer.

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She is a force to

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be reckoned with.

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She's best known for

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driving AI powered CX

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innovation In High impact

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go-to market strategies.

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She's led game changing

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launches at Twilio, you know,

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finding powerhouse brands

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like Segment and SendGrid,

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all while shaping the

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company's market architecture.

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She's a sought after

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speaker at Dreamforce, AWS

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reinvent, and Google Next.

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N Nupur is a true

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leader and mentor in

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the PMM world n Nupur.

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It is amazing to

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have you on the show.

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Wow, that's a

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glowing introduction.

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Thank you so much.

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er, I'm so happy to be here.

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Of course.

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And I actually have a really

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funny confession to make

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that I don't think I've

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ever shared with you before.

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So I remember my early days

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at Twilio, and this was

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before the pandemic, so

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everyone was in the office.

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So various folks across,

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marketing and product

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would talk about this

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amazing PMM named  Nupur.

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And I feel like a little

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bit of a fan girl right now.

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But I remember the first

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time like seeing you in an

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elevator and it was just you

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and me in an elevator, and

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I just wanted to meet you.

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So I complimented your

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jacket as an excuse

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to introduce myself,

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That's actually

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such a funny story.

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to be fair, it was

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a very cute jacket.

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I don't remember this jacket.

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I need to go dig

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I know.

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my closet.

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I know.

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But in all seriousness, your

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reputation precedes you.

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And I'm just so excited

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to have you here.

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So thanks again.

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I'm so happy to be here.

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it's obviously been lovely

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meeting you at Twilio and

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working with you at Twilio

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and excited to be here and

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chat all things pricing.

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Let's do it.

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Okay.

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So diving right in.

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tell me first,

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what is Kustomer?

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Kustomer with a K.

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Tell me about it.

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Yeah, happy to.

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Like El said, I'm Nupur.

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I currently lead product

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marketing at Kustomer,

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customer with a K, as she

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said, Kustomer is an AI

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powered CX platform that puts

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data at the core of everything

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we do, and by leading with

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that data first approach,

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we enable businesses to

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deliver customer interactions

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that are far more.

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Personalized,

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proactive and relevant.

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And you know, in today's

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world, great customer

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experience isn't just about

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responding to inquiries.

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It's all about anticipating

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needs earlier and providing

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value at every touch point.

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And that's what excites me

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the most about customer.

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We are redefining what's

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possible with AI and making

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customer service smarter,

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faster, and more human.

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How exciting AI is all

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the buzz right now.

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and you hear a lot too,

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more specifically about our

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world and product marketing.

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We hear a lot about how

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pmms should be using AI

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for things like executing

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messaging and positioning,

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but, You're talking about

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something potentially even

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bigger than that, um, and

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something that I would argue

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impacts customers directly.

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So for this first segment

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of our show, I wanna start

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with a case study of how

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you used Market Insights

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to transform the pricing

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strategy for a customer.

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So first, tell me more

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about what was going on at

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customer when you realized

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you needed to transform

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the pricing structure.

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Happy to.

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Well, so as you mentioned,

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pricing is something that

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pmms typically get to

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influence, but not lead.

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As you said, sometimes it

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lives in operations, product,

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or even finance, but in those

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very rare cases when product

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marketing can play a central

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role in pricing, it's, it's

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kind of amazing and I was very

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fortunate to have been in a

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position to be able to drive

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that here at customer, but.

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Before we get into customer,

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let me tell you what we've

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observed in the market and

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with our Customers as well.

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So, You know, as you

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said, AI everywhere.

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The way we work is changing

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And as a product marketer, I

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find myself accomplishing so

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much more in just hours that

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would take days or even weeks.

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and the speed is just,

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incomparable.

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and this shift isn't

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just affecting marketing.

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it's transforming every

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industry and every

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department, including customer

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experience right now, CX.

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Is at that forefront

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of disruption.

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And with newer and

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more advanced AI models

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coming out, the level

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of personalization and

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self-service that businesses

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will be able to deliver is

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something to closely watch.

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But with this transformation

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also comes the need

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to think about how we.

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Price software.

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in the past, the

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standard approach was

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the Salesforce model.

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You pay per seat or per

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license, and that was the

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typical SaaS structure.

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But in today's AI driven

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world, with so much of CX

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being automated and optimized,

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you gotta ask yourself, does

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that model still make sense?

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Sometimes it might,

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But in many cases it.

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may be time to explore new

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pricing models that better

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align with the value that

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customers actually receive.

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Ah.

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Okay.

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So I want to double down

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on something you just said.

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You said something about

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aligning pricing to value.

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So whether or not you consider

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the role that AI plays, I'm

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gonna guess that anchoring

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on value is going to be key.

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So tell me more about that.

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when you say pricing

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models need to align with

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value, what does that mean?

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Yeah, well, when we rolled

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out the outcome based pricing

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model where customers only

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pay when the platform has

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actually helped them, rather

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than paying for Licensers

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seats that they may or may

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not use to their full capacity

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through the year, and just

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to put it, simply think

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about customer experience,

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it is a seasonal business.

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There will be spikes during

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some parts of the year,

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like Black Friday or the

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December holiday season,

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for example, but that's not

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gonna be sustained through

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the year, and that's why we

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think outcome-based pricing

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makes sense for businesses.

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It's a fair approach where

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customers only pay when their

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customers receive outcomes.

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Aha, outcome-based pricing.

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I'm here for it.

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no one ever wants to pay

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more than what they're using.

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okay, so let's say that

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I'm a PMM and, I'm inspired

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by what you're doing

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here, and I decide that I

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need to conduct a pricing

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transformation for my product.

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let's outline the steps

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that I or any PMM out

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there would need to take.

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What's step one?

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That's awesome.

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So I mean, if anyone

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is starting out, it's

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really, really simple.

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You gotta think about it.

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In terms of phases.

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There will be four phases.

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The first one is discovery.

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Then you have research,

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design and operationalization.

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Happy to talk through

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each phase, starting

296
00:08:05,106 --> 00:08:05,766
with discovery.

297
00:08:05,766 --> 00:08:07,056
That's the very first one.

298
00:08:07,596 --> 00:08:09,096
The primary focus during the

299
00:08:09,096 --> 00:08:10,416
discovery phase is defining

300
00:08:10,416 --> 00:08:11,406
the problem that you're trying

301
00:08:11,406 --> 00:08:12,371
to solve, which really starts.

302
00:08:12,861 --> 00:08:14,903
From that point, and for

303
00:08:14,903 --> 00:08:15,863
that, I would really lean

304
00:08:15,863 --> 00:08:16,883
on the leadership team.

305
00:08:17,123 --> 00:08:18,683
You know, having open,

306
00:08:18,683 --> 00:08:20,273
free flowing conversations

307
00:08:20,273 --> 00:08:21,353
with the leadership team

308
00:08:21,563 --> 00:08:23,123
will help everyone gain a

309
00:08:23,123 --> 00:08:24,113
clear understanding of the

310
00:08:24,113 --> 00:08:25,853
challenges at hand, and that

311
00:08:25,853 --> 00:08:26,903
will shape the foundation

312
00:08:26,903 --> 00:08:27,893
of your pricing strategy.

313
00:08:28,013 --> 00:08:29,453
And that phase really

314
00:08:29,453 --> 00:08:30,683
helped us uncover key

315
00:08:30,683 --> 00:08:32,633
factors like internal and

316
00:08:32,633 --> 00:08:34,373
external headwinds risks.

317
00:08:34,678 --> 00:08:36,448
Early hypotheses because the

318
00:08:36,448 --> 00:08:38,128
leadership team has been so

319
00:08:38,128 --> 00:08:39,418
ingrained with pricing and

320
00:08:39,418 --> 00:08:40,588
they've been around since

321
00:08:40,588 --> 00:08:41,878
the start of the company.

322
00:08:41,908 --> 00:08:43,198
And so there's just so much

323
00:08:43,198 --> 00:08:45,028
more in tune with the problem

324
00:08:45,028 --> 00:08:45,688
that they wanna solve.

325
00:08:45,688 --> 00:08:46,558
So it's really important

326
00:08:46,558 --> 00:08:48,088
to getting that clarity

327
00:08:48,358 --> 00:08:49,888
as early as possible.

328
00:08:50,385 --> 00:08:52,065
so I will say the discovery

329
00:08:52,065 --> 00:08:53,385
phase is probably the shortest

330
00:08:53,385 --> 00:08:54,405
phase, but it's also the

331
00:08:54,405 --> 00:08:56,385
most critical one because as

332
00:08:56,385 --> 00:08:58,035
I said, no one has a better

333
00:08:58,035 --> 00:09:00,345
vantage point on the business

334
00:09:00,345 --> 00:09:01,425
than the leadership team.

335
00:09:01,967 --> 00:09:03,116
Yeah, of course.

336
00:09:03,116 --> 00:09:05,126
Okay, so we've got, just

337
00:09:05,126 --> 00:09:06,266
so I am reiterating what

338
00:09:06,266 --> 00:09:07,916
I'm hearing, you have four

339
00:09:07,916 --> 00:09:10,558
phases, discovery, research,

340
00:09:10,588 --> 00:09:12,953
design, and operationalize.

341
00:09:13,512 --> 00:09:13,782
Yep.

342
00:09:13,987 --> 00:09:14,307
Okay.

343
00:09:14,517 --> 00:09:15,357
So helpful.

344
00:09:15,387 --> 00:09:16,497
Okay, so once I do that

345
00:09:16,497 --> 00:09:17,427
discovery work that's

346
00:09:17,427 --> 00:09:18,087
short and sweet in the

347
00:09:18,087 --> 00:09:19,857
beginning, what's involved

348
00:09:19,857 --> 00:09:20,651
with the next phase?

349
00:09:20,651 --> 00:09:21,791
Was it research?

350
00:09:21,935 --> 00:09:22,565
Yes.

351
00:09:22,625 --> 00:09:23,947
step two is research?

352
00:09:24,307 --> 00:09:25,957
and during this phase we

353
00:09:25,957 --> 00:09:27,007
focused on researching

354
00:09:27,007 --> 00:09:28,387
the competition and

355
00:09:28,387 --> 00:09:29,797
surveying our customers.

356
00:09:30,127 --> 00:09:31,507
But we can begin with the

357
00:09:31,507 --> 00:09:33,187
competitive analysis first.

358
00:09:33,577 --> 00:09:34,567
You know, with this

359
00:09:34,567 --> 00:09:35,407
one, you wanna go.

360
00:09:35,677 --> 00:09:37,297
Really, really deep on some

361
00:09:37,297 --> 00:09:38,317
of the emerging players in

362
00:09:38,317 --> 00:09:39,727
the space and understand how

363
00:09:39,727 --> 00:09:40,897
they price their offerings.

364
00:09:40,957 --> 00:09:42,367
And at the same time, you

365
00:09:42,367 --> 00:09:43,687
need to sort of also study

366
00:09:43,687 --> 00:09:45,037
legacy platforms and how

367
00:09:45,037 --> 00:09:45,997
have they traditionally

368
00:09:45,997 --> 00:09:46,867
structured pricing.

369
00:09:47,137 --> 00:09:48,217
So what are some of

370
00:09:48,217 --> 00:09:49,297
the industry norms?

371
00:09:49,717 --> 00:09:50,887
And then I think, here's

372
00:09:50,887 --> 00:09:51,757
another tip, which has

373
00:09:51,757 --> 00:09:52,927
worked really well for us,

374
00:09:52,927 --> 00:09:54,667
which is you also wanna

375
00:09:54,667 --> 00:09:55,927
look at disruptive pricing

376
00:09:55,927 --> 00:09:57,127
strategies, which may

377
00:09:57,127 --> 00:09:59,047
not be in your space, you

378
00:09:59,047 --> 00:10:00,442
know, in the past, like.

379
00:10:00,592 --> 00:10:01,762
Salesforce, obviously,

380
00:10:01,762 --> 00:10:03,082
they set the standard with

381
00:10:03,082 --> 00:10:04,522
license based pricing and the

382
00:10:04,522 --> 00:10:05,992
entire SaaS world followed.

383
00:10:06,772 --> 00:10:08,392
But when it comes to usage

384
00:10:08,392 --> 00:10:09,892
based pricing, companies like

385
00:10:09,892 --> 00:10:11,453
Snowflake, Databricks, Twilio,

386
00:10:11,458 --> 00:10:12,532
they have really led the way.

387
00:10:13,012 --> 00:10:15,382
And so I would say the key is

388
00:10:15,382 --> 00:10:16,552
to move beyond just looking

389
00:10:16,552 --> 00:10:17,932
at your direct competitors.

390
00:10:18,142 --> 00:10:19,552
You also want to study

391
00:10:19,552 --> 00:10:21,112
how successful businesses

392
00:10:21,112 --> 00:10:23,182
across industries charge

393
00:10:23,182 --> 00:10:24,622
their customers, and more

394
00:10:24,622 --> 00:10:26,272
importantly, what's their

395
00:10:26,272 --> 00:10:27,832
unit of measurement for that

396
00:10:27,862 --> 00:10:29,212
work-based or outcome-based

397
00:10:29,212 --> 00:10:30,052
pricing approach.

398
00:10:30,435 --> 00:10:31,598
I love what you said here,

399
00:10:31,598 --> 00:10:34,268
so of course, kind of obvious

400
00:10:34,268 --> 00:10:35,198
you would do some kind of

401
00:10:35,198 --> 00:10:36,158
competitive analysis on

402
00:10:36,158 --> 00:10:38,228
pricing, but this is a really

403
00:10:38,288 --> 00:10:40,208
strong nugget to look at.

404
00:10:40,358 --> 00:10:41,528
Basically, your peers in

405
00:10:41,528 --> 00:10:42,728
the market or those that

406
00:10:42,728 --> 00:10:44,408
you see are also disruptors

407
00:10:44,408 --> 00:10:45,578
from a pricing perspective

408
00:10:45,578 --> 00:10:46,898
and their markets.

409
00:10:47,763 --> 00:10:49,983
I've seen similar strategies

410
00:10:50,013 --> 00:10:51,709
even as, companies

411
00:10:51,709 --> 00:10:52,609
might produce their

412
00:10:52,609 --> 00:10:53,779
earnings reports, right?

413
00:10:53,779 --> 00:10:54,739
They talk, they compare

414
00:10:54,739 --> 00:10:55,969
themselves to some of their

415
00:10:56,479 --> 00:10:58,609
peers in the market from

416
00:10:58,669 --> 00:10:59,719
like maybe a disruption

417
00:10:59,719 --> 00:11:01,699
perspective and consider

418
00:11:01,699 --> 00:11:03,169
similar like units of

419
00:11:03,169 --> 00:11:04,579
measure as you stated.

420
00:11:04,579 --> 00:11:05,629
Such a great idea.

421
00:11:06,079 --> 00:11:08,419
Okay, so where does customer

422
00:11:08,419 --> 00:11:09,409
research then enter the

423
00:11:09,409 --> 00:11:10,489
picture for some of this?

424
00:11:10,808 --> 00:11:11,228
Yeah.

425
00:11:11,228 --> 00:11:12,638
so I mean, you've got your

426
00:11:12,638 --> 00:11:14,048
competitive analysis done,

427
00:11:14,048 --> 00:11:15,572
you've surveyed, other

428
00:11:15,572 --> 00:11:16,502
players in the space that

429
00:11:16,502 --> 00:11:18,032
are disruptors, but now you

430
00:11:18,032 --> 00:11:19,412
wanna take those insights

431
00:11:19,412 --> 00:11:20,552
and validate them with

432
00:11:20,552 --> 00:11:22,412
your real customers and.

433
00:11:23,042 --> 00:11:24,002
What that looked like for

434
00:11:24,002 --> 00:11:26,252
us was serving over 200

435
00:11:26,252 --> 00:11:27,632
CX leaders to understand

436
00:11:27,632 --> 00:11:28,892
their pricing preferences.

437
00:11:29,102 --> 00:11:30,632
Now, these CX leaders weren't

438
00:11:30,632 --> 00:11:32,402
necessarily our customers,

439
00:11:32,402 --> 00:11:33,632
but they were CX leaders.

440
00:11:33,632 --> 00:11:34,322
They could have been

441
00:11:34,322 --> 00:11:35,942
customers of our competitors,

442
00:11:36,272 --> 00:11:37,172
or they might be just

443
00:11:37,172 --> 00:11:38,732
exploring new software.

444
00:11:38,732 --> 00:11:40,022
So it was really everyone.

445
00:11:40,632 --> 00:11:42,612
And we kind of wanted to know

446
00:11:42,732 --> 00:11:43,752
where do they stand on the

447
00:11:43,752 --> 00:11:44,742
different pricing models.

448
00:11:44,742 --> 00:11:46,242
We clearly had an hypothesis.

449
00:11:46,512 --> 00:11:47,652
We knew what competitors

450
00:11:47,652 --> 00:11:48,402
were doing, but where

451
00:11:48,402 --> 00:11:49,572
did they stand and what

452
00:11:49,572 --> 00:11:51,372
was their appetite, uh,

453
00:11:51,372 --> 00:11:52,572
for a new pricing model?

454
00:11:53,247 --> 00:11:54,477
and then if we were to

455
00:11:54,597 --> 00:11:55,707
roll something out, how

456
00:11:55,707 --> 00:11:56,667
long would it take for

457
00:11:56,667 --> 00:11:58,137
them to adopt a new model?

458
00:11:58,137 --> 00:11:58,857
That's always a

459
00:11:58,857 --> 00:11:59,787
big change, right?

460
00:11:59,787 --> 00:12:00,567
Everyone's used to

461
00:12:00,567 --> 00:12:01,497
seed based pricing.

462
00:12:01,737 --> 00:12:02,997
We wanna get a sense of.

463
00:12:03,647 --> 00:12:04,577
When people would be

464
00:12:04,577 --> 00:12:06,527
really ready and, and what

465
00:12:06,527 --> 00:12:07,547
that, you know, phased

466
00:12:07,547 --> 00:12:08,627
approach might look like

467
00:12:08,777 --> 00:12:09,977
in their ideal scenario.

468
00:12:10,637 --> 00:12:11,777
And then you wanna also

469
00:12:12,017 --> 00:12:13,187
get a sense of who are the

470
00:12:13,187 --> 00:12:14,537
key decision makers driving

471
00:12:14,537 --> 00:12:15,767
these pricing decisions.

472
00:12:16,217 --> 00:12:17,537
Very often you think it's

473
00:12:17,537 --> 00:12:19,067
CX leaders, but in in

474
00:12:19,067 --> 00:12:20,267
smaller companies it could

475
00:12:20,267 --> 00:12:22,157
be the CFO or the CEO who's.

476
00:12:22,432 --> 00:12:23,542
The primary person here.

477
00:12:23,542 --> 00:12:24,412
So we wanted to get a

478
00:12:24,412 --> 00:12:26,092
sense of who would be, uh,

479
00:12:26,092 --> 00:12:27,262
the people in the room as

480
00:12:27,262 --> 00:12:28,222
we rolled something out.

481
00:12:28,895 --> 00:12:30,425
and also things like what

482
00:12:30,425 --> 00:12:31,415
are the price points?

483
00:12:31,415 --> 00:12:31,955
Would they be willing

484
00:12:31,955 --> 00:12:32,915
to pay for different

485
00:12:32,915 --> 00:12:34,235
aspects of our platform

486
00:12:34,235 --> 00:12:35,345
for a different features,

487
00:12:35,345 --> 00:12:36,365
for our functionality?

488
00:12:36,365 --> 00:12:37,325
So it's really that

489
00:12:37,655 --> 00:12:39,395
willingness to pay exercise.

490
00:12:39,455 --> 00:12:40,595
And for that you want

491
00:12:40,595 --> 00:12:41,915
to give them a showcase

492
00:12:41,915 --> 00:12:43,235
of all the features and

493
00:12:43,505 --> 00:12:44,525
services that you'll be

494
00:12:44,525 --> 00:12:45,845
offering and, and getting

495
00:12:45,845 --> 00:12:47,165
a sense of how valuable

496
00:12:47,165 --> 00:12:48,635
you think or they think

497
00:12:48,725 --> 00:12:49,745
those features are to them.

498
00:12:50,148 --> 00:12:50,698
Yeah.

499
00:12:50,698 --> 00:12:52,468
Yeah, so discovering customer

500
00:12:52,468 --> 00:12:54,148
insights is one of my

501
00:12:54,148 --> 00:12:56,938
favorite parts of being A PMM.

502
00:12:56,938 --> 00:12:58,108
There's something just really

503
00:12:58,108 --> 00:13:00,568
satisfying about understanding

504
00:13:00,568 --> 00:13:02,158
what makes people tick, why

505
00:13:02,158 --> 00:13:03,568
customers might need or want

506
00:13:03,568 --> 00:13:04,828
something a certain way.

507
00:13:05,323 --> 00:13:06,673
So good, so good.

508
00:13:06,703 --> 00:13:07,003
Okay.

509
00:13:07,003 --> 00:13:08,803
So you did, um, let's say

510
00:13:08,803 --> 00:13:10,183
I've, I've done the discovery,

511
00:13:10,423 --> 00:13:12,103
I've done the research.

512
00:13:12,304 --> 00:13:13,153
what's the next step?

513
00:13:13,798 --> 00:13:14,338
the next step?

514
00:13:14,338 --> 00:13:15,418
is design.

515
00:13:15,688 --> 00:13:17,458
This is where you define what

516
00:13:17,458 --> 00:13:19,078
will go into every package

517
00:13:19,078 --> 00:13:20,428
and how much to charge for it.

518
00:13:20,578 --> 00:13:21,928
And setting clear

519
00:13:21,928 --> 00:13:23,458
guidelines and principles

520
00:13:23,458 --> 00:13:24,688
upfront is critical.

521
00:13:25,288 --> 00:13:25,828
For instance.

522
00:13:26,743 --> 00:13:28,153
You may want a well-structured

523
00:13:28,183 --> 00:13:30,073
upsell path between packages

524
00:13:30,073 --> 00:13:31,453
or a deliberate approach to

525
00:13:31,453 --> 00:13:33,043
how add-ons are introduced.

526
00:13:33,343 --> 00:13:33,763
So.

527
00:13:34,108 --> 00:13:35,488
A deep understanding of your

528
00:13:35,488 --> 00:13:36,808
current costs, such as your

529
00:13:36,898 --> 00:13:38,608
AI expenses, your hosting

530
00:13:38,608 --> 00:13:40,708
fees, or operational overhead.

531
00:13:41,008 --> 00:13:41,878
All of that is very

532
00:13:41,878 --> 00:13:43,258
essential to protect and

533
00:13:43,258 --> 00:13:44,698
optimize your gross margins,

534
00:13:44,758 --> 00:13:46,558
and that is where data

535
00:13:46,558 --> 00:13:47,728
becomes your best friend.

536
00:13:47,728 --> 00:13:49,588
So having someone on the

537
00:13:49,588 --> 00:13:51,598
team with strong analytical

538
00:13:51,598 --> 00:13:52,768
skills will be really,

539
00:13:52,768 --> 00:13:53,783
really invaluable in

540
00:13:53,783 --> 00:13:54,808
making those data-driven

541
00:13:54,808 --> 00:13:56,698
pricing decisions and.

542
00:13:56,958 --> 00:13:58,098
This phase is also where

543
00:13:58,098 --> 00:13:59,028
you wanna determine what

544
00:13:59,028 --> 00:14:00,078
happens when customers

545
00:14:00,108 --> 00:14:01,578
exceed their package limits.

546
00:14:02,028 --> 00:14:03,138
Should they upgrade

547
00:14:03,138 --> 00:14:04,578
to a higher tier plan?

548
00:14:04,578 --> 00:14:06,288
Can they purchase an add-on?

549
00:14:06,708 --> 00:14:08,478
Would a pay as you go model or

550
00:14:08,478 --> 00:14:10,398
an overcharge make more sense?

551
00:14:10,458 --> 00:14:11,778
And so all of these

552
00:14:11,778 --> 00:14:12,978
decisions will directly

553
00:14:12,978 --> 00:14:14,208
impact the flexibility,

554
00:14:14,208 --> 00:14:15,858
scalability, and honestly

555
00:14:15,858 --> 00:14:17,568
the long-term sustainability

556
00:14:17,568 --> 00:14:18,798
of your pricing strategy.

557
00:14:19,539 --> 00:14:19,989
Yeah.

558
00:14:19,989 --> 00:14:20,499
Awesome.

559
00:14:20,529 --> 00:14:22,269
Okay, so wanna back

560
00:14:22,269 --> 00:14:22,899
up for a minute.

561
00:14:22,899 --> 00:14:24,669
How did you determine what

562
00:14:24,669 --> 00:14:26,769
goes into each package?

563
00:14:26,769 --> 00:14:27,249
Did you have any

564
00:14:27,249 --> 00:14:28,449
guiding principles?

565
00:14:28,449 --> 00:14:29,559
Was that like part of

566
00:14:29,559 --> 00:14:31,179
the customer survey?

567
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:32,259
Where did that come in?

568
00:14:32,978 --> 00:14:33,788
can I just say it

569
00:14:33,848 --> 00:14:34,553
just came to me.

570
00:14:34,993 --> 00:14:35,113
I.

571
00:14:36,069 --> 00:14:37,419
Yes, yes, you can.

572
00:14:39,263 --> 00:14:40,643
Well, honestly, I just

573
00:14:40,643 --> 00:14:41,543
thought about it from a

574
00:14:41,543 --> 00:14:42,833
customer's perspective.

575
00:14:43,523 --> 00:14:45,203
Basically, I asked myself

576
00:14:45,203 --> 00:14:46,433
questions, what would happen

577
00:14:46,433 --> 00:14:47,663
if I finished something

578
00:14:47,663 --> 00:14:48,503
that was allotted to me?

579
00:14:48,503 --> 00:14:49,553
If it was all done,

580
00:14:50,074 --> 00:14:51,004
what would happen?

581
00:14:51,004 --> 00:14:51,784
Would I be able to

582
00:14:51,784 --> 00:14:53,734
purchase more as an add-on?

583
00:14:53,734 --> 00:14:54,754
Would it be an upgrade

584
00:14:54,754 --> 00:14:56,314
to a different package or

585
00:14:56,314 --> 00:14:57,274
would I just be able to

586
00:14:57,274 --> 00:14:58,324
pay a little bit more for

587
00:14:58,324 --> 00:14:59,614
the extra that I used?

588
00:14:59,734 --> 00:15:01,204
So what were my options?

589
00:15:01,234 --> 00:15:01,984
And I wrote it down.

590
00:15:02,569 --> 00:15:03,769
And so when I wrote it down,

591
00:15:03,769 --> 00:15:05,359
I realized that for anything

592
00:15:05,359 --> 00:15:06,679
that had a numerical value

593
00:15:06,679 --> 00:15:07,759
to it, like if a feature

594
00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:10,009
had a numer value, it made

595
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:12,109
sense to have a prepackaged

596
00:15:12,109 --> 00:15:13,519
add-on with the discounting

597
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:15,859
available, where the more you

598
00:15:15,859 --> 00:15:17,689
commit to using more, you get

599
00:15:17,689 --> 00:15:19,159
higher discounts essentially.

600
00:15:19,669 --> 00:15:21,529
But to ensure that nobody

601
00:15:21,529 --> 00:15:23,029
faced a disruption in usage,

602
00:15:23,029 --> 00:15:24,529
we always allow for a pay as

603
00:15:24,529 --> 00:15:25,969
you go if somebody exceeds

604
00:15:26,359 --> 00:15:27,622
what they were, allotted

605
00:15:27,622 --> 00:15:28,642
initially in the package.

606
00:15:29,272 --> 00:15:30,262
And then for any

607
00:15:30,262 --> 00:15:31,642
feature that was just.

608
00:15:32,017 --> 00:15:32,737
You know, either you

609
00:15:32,737 --> 00:15:33,847
have it or you don't like

610
00:15:33,847 --> 00:15:35,017
a check mark feature.

611
00:15:35,497 --> 00:15:37,687
Then the goal was to just make

612
00:15:37,687 --> 00:15:38,557
it available in the higher

613
00:15:38,557 --> 00:15:40,207
package and they would have to

614
00:15:40,207 --> 00:15:41,317
upgrade to a higher package.

615
00:15:41,317 --> 00:15:43,027
So new medical values were

616
00:15:43,087 --> 00:15:44,737
available as prepackaged add

617
00:15:44,737 --> 00:15:46,327
onset, you could discount, and

618
00:15:46,327 --> 00:15:47,917
then anything that was a check

619
00:15:47,917 --> 00:15:49,477
mark or not was just, you

620
00:15:49,477 --> 00:15:50,677
gotta buy the higher package.

621
00:15:51,232 --> 00:15:52,522
That was really smart to

622
00:15:52,522 --> 00:15:53,752
bake in the discounting.

623
00:15:53,752 --> 00:15:54,742
'cause I know some, that's

624
00:15:54,742 --> 00:15:55,432
something that sales

625
00:15:55,432 --> 00:15:56,722
likes as a lever to pull

626
00:15:56,752 --> 00:15:57,832
when they're structuring

627
00:15:57,832 --> 00:15:58,942
deals with customers.

628
00:15:59,092 --> 00:16:00,142
Also, can I just say,

629
00:16:00,142 --> 00:16:00,892
this is why you're such

630
00:16:00,892 --> 00:16:02,542
a powerful PMM, you wear

631
00:16:02,542 --> 00:16:03,712
the customer's shoes.

632
00:16:04,162 --> 00:16:05,752
I absolutely love this.

633
00:16:05,972 --> 00:16:08,115
and imagine, or I can't

634
00:16:08,115 --> 00:16:09,075
imagine, I'm not sure if you

635
00:16:09,075 --> 00:16:10,335
did this on your own or if you

636
00:16:10,335 --> 00:16:13,920
did it as a, exercise with PM

637
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:14,910
or with some of your leaders,

638
00:16:14,910 --> 00:16:16,800
but doing a workshop of.

639
00:16:17,508 --> 00:16:18,708
Let's all wear our

640
00:16:18,708 --> 00:16:19,968
customers shoes together.

641
00:16:20,190 --> 00:16:21,597
how would we dream up

642
00:16:21,867 --> 00:16:23,427
these packages together?

643
00:16:23,937 --> 00:16:24,747
I could see that being a

644
00:16:24,747 --> 00:16:25,977
really strong alignment

645
00:16:25,977 --> 00:16:27,087
exercise to do with

646
00:16:27,087 --> 00:16:27,957
the stakeholders.

647
00:16:28,271 --> 00:16:29,051
And that's exactly

648
00:16:29,051 --> 00:16:29,771
what we did.

649
00:16:29,771 --> 00:16:30,551
I mean, you already

650
00:16:30,551 --> 00:16:31,571
know how to do pricing.

651
00:16:33,521 --> 00:16:34,721
IM learning as we go.

652
00:16:34,721 --> 00:16:35,621
I'm learning as we go.

653
00:16:35,801 --> 00:16:36,161
Okay.

654
00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:38,201
So up to this point, you've

655
00:16:38,201 --> 00:16:39,311
done all the strategy

656
00:16:39,311 --> 00:16:40,361
and foundation work for

657
00:16:40,361 --> 00:16:41,291
the pricing strategy.

658
00:16:41,291 --> 00:16:41,981
Now, how do you

659
00:16:41,981 --> 00:16:42,911
put it into action?

660
00:16:42,941 --> 00:16:43,841
What's the final step?

661
00:16:44,516 --> 00:16:44,846
Yeah.

662
00:16:44,846 --> 00:16:46,496
I mean the final step

663
00:16:46,586 --> 00:16:48,176
operationalization that in

664
00:16:48,176 --> 00:16:49,736
my view is the hardest part

665
00:16:49,736 --> 00:16:51,626
of the entire process because

666
00:16:51,626 --> 00:16:52,856
this is where the pricing

667
00:16:52,856 --> 00:16:54,896
model moves from the theory

668
00:16:55,076 --> 00:16:56,336
to the execution piece.

669
00:16:56,456 --> 00:16:58,466
And so, you know, you gotta

670
00:16:58,466 --> 00:16:59,966
be really cognizant of like.

671
00:17:00,356 --> 00:17:02,216
Limits on features, and

672
00:17:02,396 --> 00:17:04,016
you have to be very careful

673
00:17:04,016 --> 00:17:05,426
that whatever you are,

674
00:17:05,819 --> 00:17:07,439
enforcing is enforced

675
00:17:07,439 --> 00:17:08,699
across every touch point.

676
00:17:09,029 --> 00:17:10,559
So whether it is within

677
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:12,089
the product or within your

678
00:17:12,089 --> 00:17:13,259
billing systems or on the

679
00:17:13,259 --> 00:17:15,329
website and any documentation,

680
00:17:15,569 --> 00:17:16,829
clarity is everything.

681
00:17:16,829 --> 00:17:17,969
And the same stuff

682
00:17:17,969 --> 00:17:19,019
needs to be reflected

683
00:17:19,019 --> 00:17:20,819
everywhere because yeah.

684
00:17:21,314 --> 00:17:22,634
If there's any ambiguity,

685
00:17:22,634 --> 00:17:23,504
it can lead to customer

686
00:17:23,504 --> 00:17:25,904
confusion, billing disputes,

687
00:17:25,964 --> 00:17:27,104
friction in adoption is

688
00:17:27,116 --> 00:17:27,374
just a,

689
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:27,629
boy.

690
00:17:27,739 --> 00:17:28,029
Yeah.

691
00:17:28,634 --> 00:17:29,324
we don't want that.

692
00:17:29,594 --> 00:17:31,304
So ensuring everything is

693
00:17:31,304 --> 00:17:32,714
seamlessly aligned will

694
00:17:32,954 --> 00:17:34,604
require medical attention to

695
00:17:34,604 --> 00:17:36,194
detail, and really strong,

696
00:17:36,194 --> 00:17:38,174
strong collaboration across

697
00:17:38,474 --> 00:17:39,914
product, engineering,

698
00:17:40,154 --> 00:17:41,654
finance, and even marketing.

699
00:17:42,239 --> 00:17:43,439
Yeah, I imagine this was

700
00:17:43,439 --> 00:17:46,109
a massive, uh, rollout

701
00:17:46,139 --> 00:17:48,269
across the company, and

702
00:17:48,449 --> 00:17:49,679
you'd have to enable sales.

703
00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:51,329
And in fact, on that note, how

704
00:17:51,329 --> 00:17:52,919
did you enable sales on this?

705
00:17:52,919 --> 00:17:54,029
How did you roll it out

706
00:17:54,029 --> 00:17:55,949
across the entire company?

707
00:17:56,474 --> 00:17:57,974
Yeah, this was a big rollout.

708
00:17:57,974 --> 00:17:59,474
And so enablement, your point

709
00:17:59,474 --> 00:18:01,724
is really the key thing that

710
00:18:01,724 --> 00:18:02,714
you need to achieve here.

711
00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:04,790
so I mean, I'll, I'm gonna go

712
00:18:04,790 --> 00:18:06,410
in a little bit tactical here.

713
00:18:06,650 --> 00:18:07,490
There are several key

714
00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:08,630
assets really that you

715
00:18:08,630 --> 00:18:09,560
want to roll out for this.

716
00:18:09,650 --> 00:18:09,770
Smooth

717
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:11,390
transition.

718
00:18:12,110 --> 00:18:12,770
Um, you want a

719
00:18:12,770 --> 00:18:14,000
good FAQ document.

720
00:18:14,210 --> 00:18:14,660
It should be a

721
00:18:14,660 --> 00:18:15,980
comprehensive resource.

722
00:18:15,980 --> 00:18:17,030
It should address common

723
00:18:17,030 --> 00:18:18,410
questions, clarify key

724
00:18:18,410 --> 00:18:20,360
details, questions like,

725
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:21,500
when can I start selling

726
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:22,430
these new packages?

727
00:18:22,430 --> 00:18:23,270
What is the difference

728
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:24,140
between the packages?

729
00:18:24,140 --> 00:18:25,070
Just be really, really

730
00:18:25,070 --> 00:18:26,950
clear, and make it

731
00:18:27,010 --> 00:18:27,850
really, really simple.

732
00:18:27,850 --> 00:18:29,593
Um, you want a pricing tool.

733
00:18:30,313 --> 00:18:31,453
It is an interactive tool.

734
00:18:31,663 --> 00:18:33,763
It should help teams quickly

735
00:18:33,763 --> 00:18:34,963
configure and understand

736
00:18:34,963 --> 00:18:36,313
the best pricing options

737
00:18:36,313 --> 00:18:37,093
for their customers.

738
00:18:37,093 --> 00:18:39,313
So what's important to

739
00:18:39,313 --> 00:18:39,913
remember though, when

740
00:18:39,913 --> 00:18:40,753
you're designing these

741
00:18:40,753 --> 00:18:41,683
tools, and I've seen a lot

742
00:18:41,683 --> 00:18:42,793
of ROI calculators, they

743
00:18:42,793 --> 00:18:44,383
can be so complicated.

744
00:18:44,833 --> 00:18:47,023
You want something that's just

745
00:18:47,053 --> 00:18:48,943
five questions or five inputs?

746
00:18:49,288 --> 00:18:51,028
And a beautiful chart,

747
00:18:51,088 --> 00:18:52,228
which shows the output.

748
00:18:52,858 --> 00:18:54,268
So we did that.

749
00:18:54,268 --> 00:18:55,528
We had a streamlined

750
00:18:55,528 --> 00:18:56,488
tool, just five key

751
00:18:56,488 --> 00:18:57,928
inputs, number of seats,

752
00:18:57,928 --> 00:18:59,175
number of conversations,

753
00:18:59,175 --> 00:19:01,035
proposed package add-ons

754
00:19:01,035 --> 00:19:02,264
you want, and that's it.

755
00:19:02,510 --> 00:19:03,130
Uh, okay.

756
00:19:03,130 --> 00:19:03,850
I wanna interrupt

757
00:19:03,850 --> 00:19:04,390
you for a minute.

758
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:06,604
So you had two, key

759
00:19:06,604 --> 00:19:07,714
assets, probably a bunch

760
00:19:07,714 --> 00:19:08,704
of other assets, but two

761
00:19:08,704 --> 00:19:09,664
key assets for sales.

762
00:19:09,664 --> 00:19:10,774
You had the A Q Doc and

763
00:19:10,774 --> 00:19:11,854
you had this pricing tool,

764
00:19:11,854 --> 00:19:12,844
the interactive tool.

765
00:19:12,934 --> 00:19:13,834
Was that something that's

766
00:19:13,834 --> 00:19:15,514
like, something that a sales

767
00:19:15,514 --> 00:19:16,714
person uses, like a simple

768
00:19:16,714 --> 00:19:18,034
spreadsheet, or is this like

769
00:19:18,034 --> 00:19:20,931
a customer facing tool that

770
00:19:21,021 --> 00:19:22,791
the sales maybe controls it,

771
00:19:22,791 --> 00:19:24,411
but then the customer might

772
00:19:24,411 --> 00:19:25,551
have visibility into it?

773
00:19:25,974 --> 00:19:27,624
Yeah, so this one, well,

774
00:19:27,654 --> 00:19:28,876
we developed it to be

775
00:19:28,876 --> 00:19:30,136
a spreadsheet tool that

776
00:19:30,136 --> 00:19:31,276
was internal and not

777
00:19:31,276 --> 00:19:32,326
customer facing, but

778
00:19:32,326 --> 00:19:33,376
that is the next step.

779
00:19:33,676 --> 00:19:35,236
We do want to put it?

780
00:19:35,236 --> 00:19:36,946
on the website and enable

781
00:19:36,946 --> 00:19:38,056
customers to be able to.

782
00:19:38,566 --> 00:19:39,256
Just send a couple

783
00:19:39,256 --> 00:19:40,156
of key inputs and

784
00:19:40,156 --> 00:19:41,116
see where they land.

785
00:19:41,476 --> 00:19:42,916
So that is the next step

786
00:19:42,916 --> 00:19:44,086
and we are working towards

787
00:19:44,086 --> 00:19:44,896
getting there, but it's

788
00:19:44,896 --> 00:19:46,006
so new right now that we

789
00:19:46,006 --> 00:19:47,116
haven't quite Got that yet.

790
00:19:47,566 --> 00:19:48,676
But good question.

791
00:19:48,676 --> 00:19:49,696
I mean, for now it.

792
00:19:49,696 --> 00:19:50,476
is internal.

793
00:19:50,930 --> 00:19:52,190
but it'll eventually make it

794
00:19:52,190 --> 00:19:53,210
to the website because I think

795
00:19:53,210 --> 00:19:55,490
that's a wonderful way to

796
00:19:55,610 --> 00:19:57,140
boost your demand gen efforts.

797
00:19:57,140 --> 00:19:57,650
I think people

798
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:58,430
really like that.

799
00:19:59,589 --> 00:19:59,815
okay.

800
00:19:59,815 --> 00:20:00,505
So getting back to

801
00:20:00,505 --> 00:20:01,855
rolling it out to sales.

802
00:20:02,473 --> 00:20:02,733
Yeah.

803
00:20:02,733 --> 00:20:03,033
Yeah.

804
00:20:03,033 --> 00:20:05,020
So other assets, as I

805
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:06,280
said, two key assets, the

806
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,690
FAQ and the pricing tool,

807
00:20:07,690 --> 00:20:09,130
but other assets being the

808
00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:10,690
pricing one-on-one training.

809
00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:12,370
So a foundational training

810
00:20:12,370 --> 00:20:13,900
session covers everything

811
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:14,920
that's included in every

812
00:20:14,950 --> 00:20:17,230
package, but more importantly,

813
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,180
real world pricing scenarios.

814
00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:20,500
So you want to have a

815
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:22,300
hands-on approach so

816
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:24,040
teams can confidently

817
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:25,390
assess customer needs and

818
00:20:25,390 --> 00:20:26,500
recommend the right package.

819
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:28,240
So we designed it so that.

820
00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:30,443
They were, put in these

821
00:20:30,443 --> 00:20:31,493
different scenarios where

822
00:20:31,493 --> 00:20:32,063
they were talking to

823
00:20:32,063 --> 00:20:33,143
different verticals with

824
00:20:33,143 --> 00:20:35,123
different sizes of companies,

825
00:20:35,123 --> 00:20:35,873
and we were like, which

826
00:20:35,873 --> 00:20:36,863
package would you sell?

827
00:20:36,983 --> 00:20:38,543
And so it was like a hands-on

828
00:20:38,543 --> 00:20:40,673
exercise that just forced

829
00:20:40,673 --> 00:20:41,993
them to get familiar with the

830
00:20:41,993 --> 00:20:43,343
pricing and the packaging.

831
00:20:43,838 --> 00:20:44,453
So helpful.

832
00:20:45,143 --> 00:20:46,703
Yeah, And then we had

833
00:20:46,703 --> 00:20:47,573
an objection handling

834
00:20:47,573 --> 00:20:48,353
guide, which again.

835
00:20:49,103 --> 00:20:50,453
Very, very important here.

836
00:20:50,543 --> 00:20:51,563
'cause you know, when you're

837
00:20:51,563 --> 00:20:52,913
rolling out new pricing,

838
00:20:53,133 --> 00:20:55,803
mean, 99.9%, I can tell you

839
00:20:55,803 --> 00:20:56,793
with confidence, you can

840
00:20:56,793 --> 00:20:58,263
expect someone to say it's too

841
00:20:58,263 --> 00:21:01,173
expensive or I only need these

842
00:21:01,173 --> 00:21:02,103
features while we're paying

843
00:21:02,103 --> 00:21:03,243
for these other features

844
00:21:03,243 --> 00:21:03,873
that I don't think I'm

845
00:21:03,874 --> 00:21:05,637
Yeah,  anytime there's

846
00:21:05,637 --> 00:21:06,597
like a significant

847
00:21:06,597 --> 00:21:08,487
change, like pricing,

848
00:21:08,827 --> 00:21:10,057
salespeople need to know how

849
00:21:10,057 --> 00:21:11,617
to have those conversations.

850
00:21:11,751 --> 00:21:12,241
exactly.

851
00:21:13,185 --> 00:21:14,760
and then, I mean, they

852
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:15,720
need a standard talk track.

853
00:21:16,065 --> 00:21:16,455
Should be a

854
00:21:16,455 --> 00:21:17,415
compelling narrative.

855
00:21:17,535 --> 00:21:18,315
Why are you changing

856
00:21:18,315 --> 00:21:19,035
your pricing?

857
00:21:19,545 --> 00:21:20,475
What's the value that

858
00:21:20,475 --> 00:21:21,375
a customer will get?

859
00:21:21,525 --> 00:21:22,785
Is it create a value,

860
00:21:22,785 --> 00:21:24,135
flexibility, alignment

861
00:21:24,135 --> 00:21:25,035
with where they are?

862
00:21:25,719 --> 00:21:26,859
on that messaging piece,

863
00:21:26,859 --> 00:21:27,879
like one thing to note

864
00:21:27,879 --> 00:21:29,984
is that it'll be nuanced.

865
00:21:30,104 --> 00:21:31,574
What you say to an existing

866
00:21:31,574 --> 00:21:32,684
customer will be different

867
00:21:32,684 --> 00:21:33,494
from what you will say to

868
00:21:33,494 --> 00:21:35,744
future customers because with.

869
00:21:36,059 --> 00:21:38,399
Existing customers, you gotta

870
00:21:38,399 --> 00:21:39,389
reassure them that they will

871
00:21:39,389 --> 00:21:40,739
be supported no matter what

872
00:21:40,739 --> 00:21:42,029
with their renewal decisions.

873
00:21:42,577 --> 00:21:43,235
they should know how

874
00:21:43,235 --> 00:21:44,225
the transition will work

875
00:21:44,255 --> 00:21:45,155
'cause they're paying

876
00:21:45,155 --> 00:21:45,935
in a different way.

877
00:21:45,935 --> 00:21:47,045
And now you're telling them

878
00:21:47,045 --> 00:21:48,215
that they might have to change

879
00:21:48,215 --> 00:21:49,235
the way that they pay you.

880
00:21:49,766 --> 00:21:51,026
And for future customers,

881
00:21:51,026 --> 00:21:52,166
it's more forward looking.

882
00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:53,786
That highlights how this will

883
00:21:53,786 --> 00:21:55,256
give them better value, how

884
00:21:55,256 --> 00:21:56,426
it aligns with their modern

885
00:21:56,426 --> 00:21:58,376
CX needs, the flexibility,

886
00:21:58,376 --> 00:21:59,426
and so on and so forth.

887
00:22:00,322 --> 00:22:01,242
Yeah, absolutely.

888
00:22:01,242 --> 00:22:03,655
I could imagine being

889
00:22:03,835 --> 00:22:05,725
a customer and hearing

890
00:22:06,115 --> 00:22:07,435
pricing is changing.

891
00:22:07,435 --> 00:22:08,035
It's good to have

892
00:22:08,035 --> 00:22:08,845
the narrative.

893
00:22:08,845 --> 00:22:09,715
I'm even thinking too,

894
00:22:09,715 --> 00:22:12,205
very recently Netflix had a

895
00:22:12,205 --> 00:22:14,875
price change and the market

896
00:22:14,875 --> 00:22:16,360
did not like how they.

897
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:18,790
Put that narrative together.

898
00:22:18,790 --> 00:22:20,020
I would say actually I would

899
00:22:20,020 --> 00:22:21,310
say a lack of narrative.

900
00:22:21,310 --> 00:22:22,870
It was very impersonal.

901
00:22:23,170 --> 00:22:24,664
there's lots of chatter across

902
00:22:24,664 --> 00:22:26,044
social media about that.

903
00:22:26,104 --> 00:22:27,064
Uh, so very.

904
00:22:27,769 --> 00:22:29,359
Astute for you to include

905
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,159
the talk track, the narrative

906
00:22:31,159 --> 00:22:32,689
for salespeople to be able

907
00:22:32,689 --> 00:22:34,009
to be able to handle that.

908
00:22:34,516 --> 00:22:34,995
okay.

909
00:22:34,995 --> 00:22:36,915
So you clearly have had a lot

910
00:22:36,915 --> 00:22:38,025
of stakeholders and then you

911
00:22:38,025 --> 00:22:39,465
met, you mentioned this early

912
00:22:39,465 --> 00:22:43,531
on in the discovery phase.

913
00:22:43,821 --> 00:22:46,653
Of this project, I imagine

914
00:22:46,653 --> 00:22:48,033
lots of opinions on pricing,

915
00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:48,873
especially folks like

916
00:22:48,873 --> 00:22:49,623
leadership who have been

917
00:22:49,623 --> 00:22:50,943
there for a long time and know

918
00:22:50,943 --> 00:22:52,083
the customers really well.

919
00:22:52,083 --> 00:22:54,363
So how did you get buy-in

920
00:22:54,363 --> 00:22:55,503
from those folks who maybe

921
00:22:55,563 --> 00:22:56,703
had strong opinion, like

922
00:22:56,703 --> 00:22:58,023
who are the stakeholders?

923
00:22:58,318 --> 00:22:59,068
Oh my God.

924
00:22:59,278 --> 00:22:59,968
Ah.

925
00:23:01,168 --> 00:23:04,228
Well, I like to think

926
00:23:04,228 --> 00:23:06,118
of it as like two phases

927
00:23:06,718 --> 00:23:08,038
of like stakeholders?

928
00:23:08,038 --> 00:23:08,758
and the different people

929
00:23:08,758 --> 00:23:09,418
that you speak to.

930
00:23:09,658 --> 00:23:11,998
So think pre rollout and

931
00:23:11,998 --> 00:23:13,618
post rollout and you know,

932
00:23:13,618 --> 00:23:14,488
let's just separate those

933
00:23:14,488 --> 00:23:15,388
two for a little bit.

934
00:23:15,809 --> 00:23:16,859
on the pre rollout

935
00:23:16,859 --> 00:23:17,849
phase, you wanna have

936
00:23:17,879 --> 00:23:19,259
three different teams.

937
00:23:19,619 --> 00:23:20,909
You want the executive team,

938
00:23:21,179 --> 00:23:22,529
which has the C-E-O-C-T-O

939
00:23:22,529 --> 00:23:24,149
founders, all of those people.

940
00:23:24,677 --> 00:23:25,307
and this group.

941
00:23:25,787 --> 00:23:27,047
They should receive regular

942
00:23:27,047 --> 00:23:28,037
updates on progress,

943
00:23:28,037 --> 00:23:29,327
ensure we're still doing

944
00:23:29,327 --> 00:23:30,407
what they expect of us.

945
00:23:30,407 --> 00:23:31,997
So you want that alignment

946
00:23:31,997 --> 00:23:33,647
at the highest level and you

947
00:23:33,647 --> 00:23:34,847
want a pricing committee.

948
00:23:34,997 --> 00:23:36,317
And so this is a more

949
00:23:36,317 --> 00:23:37,847
focused subset of the

950
00:23:37,847 --> 00:23:38,927
executive team really.

951
00:23:39,551 --> 00:23:41,222
this excludes the CEO and CTO.

952
00:23:41,222 --> 00:23:42,812
We wanna spare them from every

953
00:23:42,812 --> 00:23:44,702
decision, but it still helps

954
00:23:44,702 --> 00:23:46,382
in driving those decisions.

955
00:23:46,382 --> 00:23:47,237
So this role.

956
00:23:47,875 --> 00:23:49,225
this committee really played a

957
00:23:49,225 --> 00:23:50,605
crucial role in reviewing the

958
00:23:50,605 --> 00:23:52,075
recommendations and offering

959
00:23:52,075 --> 00:23:53,365
their insights and shaping

960
00:23:53,365 --> 00:23:54,625
the final pricing proposal.

961
00:23:54,925 --> 00:23:56,215
Like this one had the VP of

962
00:23:56,215 --> 00:23:58,105
Finance and, and he was able

963
00:23:58,105 --> 00:23:59,245
to tell us like, this is what

964
00:23:59,245 --> 00:24:00,655
we are seeing in our deal desk

965
00:24:00,655 --> 00:24:01,885
and, and so on and so forth.

966
00:24:01,885 --> 00:24:02,605
So you wanna have

967
00:24:02,605 --> 00:24:03,685
that smaller team.

968
00:24:04,414 --> 00:24:05,673
and then the pricing

969
00:24:05,793 --> 00:24:06,963
operationalization groups,

970
00:24:06,963 --> 00:24:08,733
so think of this as the

971
00:24:08,733 --> 00:24:10,233
execution focus team.

972
00:24:10,533 --> 00:24:11,523
They're really the ones with

973
00:24:11,523 --> 00:24:12,453
their boots on the ground,

974
00:24:12,453 --> 00:24:13,713
like making things happen.

975
00:24:14,143 --> 00:24:15,073
that last step that

976
00:24:15,073 --> 00:24:15,883
I talked about, the.

977
00:24:16,108 --> 00:24:16,918
Operationalized,

978
00:24:16,918 --> 00:24:18,058
step phase four.

979
00:24:18,058 --> 00:24:18,928
That's where these

980
00:24:18,928 --> 00:24:19,708
people come in.

981
00:24:20,368 --> 00:24:22,228
Um, so this one really has

982
00:24:22,228 --> 00:24:23,818
representation across sales,

983
00:24:23,818 --> 00:24:25,078
customer success, product

984
00:24:25,078 --> 00:24:26,458
marketing, sales enablement,

985
00:24:26,848 --> 00:24:28,288
systems architecture.

986
00:24:28,288 --> 00:24:29,008
I never thought I

987
00:24:29,008 --> 00:24:29,938
would talk to systems

988
00:24:29,938 --> 00:24:31,258
architecture before this.

989
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,910
FPA legal billing, really

990
00:24:34,970 --> 00:24:37,010
every function, Everybody.

991
00:24:37,731 --> 00:24:39,290
everyone needed to implement

992
00:24:39,290 --> 00:24:40,280
pricing successfully

993
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,450
across the organization.

994
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:41,960
You'd not.

995
00:24:42,305 --> 00:24:43,475
I mean, I never thought there

996
00:24:43,475 --> 00:24:44,735
would be so many implications

997
00:24:44,735 --> 00:24:46,895
across Zuora billing price

998
00:24:47,046 --> 00:24:47,976
Did you have like

999
00:24:48,006 --> 00:24:49,176
info sessions?

1000
00:24:49,176 --> 00:24:50,466
Like that's a lot

1001
00:24:50,466 --> 00:24:51,366
of stakeholders.

1002
00:24:51,395 --> 00:24:52,835
It's a lot of stakeholders.

1003
00:24:52,835 --> 00:24:53,735
it was a lot of

1004
00:24:53,735 --> 00:24:54,965
alignment and a lot of

1005
00:24:54,965 --> 00:24:55,955
time spent on meetings.

1006
00:24:56,615 --> 00:24:59,255
But uh, it is what it is.

1007
00:24:59,255 --> 00:25:00,485
It is a big initiative

1008
00:25:00,815 --> 00:25:02,825
and it really has to happen.

1009
00:25:03,518 --> 00:25:04,358
and then the post

1010
00:25:04,358 --> 00:25:05,375
rollout, this was

1011
00:25:05,375 --> 00:25:06,335
really smart actually.

1012
00:25:06,335 --> 00:25:08,195
We have a new, new COO who

1013
00:25:08,405 --> 00:25:09,725
recommended that we had a

1014
00:25:09,725 --> 00:25:11,760
SWAT team and That's the

1015
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:12,930
way you can actually measure

1016
00:25:12,930 --> 00:25:15,150
success and make changes fast.

1017
00:25:15,180 --> 00:25:17,760
And so we set some clear goals

1018
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,930
around customer adoption of

1019
00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:20,760
the new pricing for like a

1020
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,990
stipulated amount of time.

1021
00:25:21,990 --> 00:25:23,640
And the assembled SWAT

1022
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,020
team really is dedicated to

1023
00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:26,130
enabling our go-to market

1024
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:27,510
teams to hit those goals.

1025
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,460
And so it's more like a one

1026
00:25:29,490 --> 00:25:30,780
team, one dream strategy.

1027
00:25:31,230 --> 00:25:32,340
And the SWAT team

1028
00:25:32,340 --> 00:25:33,150
is basically like.

1029
00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:35,010
Okay, this isn't working.

1030
00:25:35,010 --> 00:25:35,730
Or we need to change the

1031
00:25:35,730 --> 00:25:36,780
positioning a little bit

1032
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:38,850
or like something about

1033
00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:40,410
some feature should be

1034
00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:41,490
available in every package.

1035
00:25:41,490 --> 00:25:42,360
That's the feedback that we

1036
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:43,410
are hearing from the field.

1037
00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:45,720
Those sorts of changes

1038
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,770
that need to be made

1039
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,120
would come back from

1040
00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:49,020
the pricing SWAT team.

1041
00:25:49,699 --> 00:25:50,239
Got it.

1042
00:25:50,269 --> 00:25:52,069
Okay, so then you have

1043
00:25:52,069 --> 00:25:53,119
all your stakeholders.

1044
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:53,809
Everybody's caught

1045
00:25:53,809 --> 00:25:54,709
up to speed.

1046
00:25:55,024 --> 00:25:56,671
Along, I'm assuming all

1047
00:25:56,851 --> 00:25:58,861
four phases of the project.

1048
00:25:59,491 --> 00:26:00,751
I guess after you launched,

1049
00:26:00,751 --> 00:26:01,741
what did this look like from

1050
00:26:01,741 --> 00:26:03,091
a customer's perspective?

1051
00:26:03,091 --> 00:26:05,341
How did you manage potential

1052
00:26:05,341 --> 00:26:06,301
customer objections?

1053
00:26:06,301 --> 00:26:06,721
I know you had the,

1054
00:26:07,201 --> 00:26:08,521
um, objection handling,

1055
00:26:08,521 --> 00:26:09,691
or how did you temper

1056
00:26:09,691 --> 00:26:11,161
expectations and like, was

1057
00:26:11,161 --> 00:26:12,181
that part of that narrative

1058
00:26:12,181 --> 00:26:13,081
that you put together?

1059
00:26:14,086 --> 00:26:16,276
Yeah, well, interestingly,

1060
00:26:16,276 --> 00:26:17,086
we launched it in a

1061
00:26:17,086 --> 00:26:18,046
very, very big way.

1062
00:26:18,426 --> 00:26:20,316
It was one of the major

1063
00:26:20,376 --> 00:26:21,396
announcements at a high

1064
00:26:21,396 --> 00:26:22,446
profile LinkedIn live

1065
00:26:22,446 --> 00:26:23,556
event with a website

1066
00:26:23,556 --> 00:26:24,846
overhaul and a debut of

1067
00:26:24,846 --> 00:26:26,556
our new AI agent offering.

1068
00:26:26,556 --> 00:26:28,176
So it was, it was a lot of

1069
00:26:28,446 --> 00:26:30,246
force behind this launch.

1070
00:26:30,576 --> 00:26:31,806
And so given the

1071
00:26:31,806 --> 00:26:32,886
significance, we wanted

1072
00:26:32,886 --> 00:26:34,026
to maximize its impact.

1073
00:26:34,026 --> 00:26:35,826
So rather than treating it as

1074
00:26:35,826 --> 00:26:37,296
a standalone update, we made

1075
00:26:37,296 --> 00:26:38,586
it a high visibility event.

1076
00:26:38,916 --> 00:26:40,686
But to your point, how do

1077
00:26:40,686 --> 00:26:41,856
you manage those customer

1078
00:26:41,856 --> 00:26:43,446
objections, you know?

1079
00:26:43,816 --> 00:26:45,938
Ahead of time, we made sure

1080
00:26:45,938 --> 00:26:47,228
that CX teams were prepared

1081
00:26:47,228 --> 00:26:48,098
with the enablement they

1082
00:26:48,098 --> 00:26:49,478
needed to talk to customers.

1083
00:26:49,838 --> 00:26:51,608
And in fact, those customers

1084
00:26:51,608 --> 00:26:52,868
that were nearing renewals

1085
00:26:52,868 --> 00:26:53,768
were already aware.

1086
00:26:54,158 --> 00:26:55,058
And so they already knew

1087
00:26:55,058 --> 00:26:56,226
what was coming at them.

1088
00:26:56,558 --> 00:26:57,728
and by the way, we rolled

1089
00:26:57,728 --> 00:26:58,838
this out last October,

1090
00:26:58,838 --> 00:27:00,698
but we also recognized

1091
00:27:00,698 --> 00:27:01,598
that businesses need to

1092
00:27:01,598 --> 00:27:02,858
transition at their own pace.

1093
00:27:02,858 --> 00:27:03,188
So.

1094
00:27:03,863 --> 00:27:04,403
Well, we are very

1095
00:27:04,403 --> 00:27:05,483
confident in the model.

1096
00:27:05,483 --> 00:27:06,443
We are giving customers

1097
00:27:06,443 --> 00:27:07,853
the flexibility to choose

1098
00:27:07,853 --> 00:27:08,993
what works best for them.

1099
00:27:09,053 --> 00:27:10,133
And it's funny you said

1100
00:27:10,133 --> 00:27:11,633
Netflix and their pricing,

1101
00:27:11,695 --> 00:27:13,212
but, actually have

1102
00:27:13,212 --> 00:27:14,382
a fun analogy here.

1103
00:27:14,382 --> 00:27:15,792
You know, just like

1104
00:27:15,792 --> 00:27:17,112
Netflix, they didn't move

1105
00:27:17,112 --> 00:27:18,492
from DVD rental service

1106
00:27:18,492 --> 00:27:20,412
to streaming overnight.

1107
00:27:20,442 --> 00:27:21,762
That's not how it went down.

1108
00:27:22,139 --> 00:27:23,279
they launched their DVD

1109
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,709
business, I think in 1998,

1110
00:27:25,709 --> 00:27:26,879
and they introduced streaming,

1111
00:27:26,879 --> 00:27:28,799
I think in 2007, but.

1112
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:30,640
To shift to streaming,

1113
00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:32,020
um, fully, I think it

1114
00:27:32,020 --> 00:27:33,370
was only around 2019.

1115
00:27:33,370 --> 00:27:35,530
2020. It's like 20 years.

1116
00:27:35,650 --> 00:27:37,090
It was a gradual shift.

1117
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:37,510
Yeah.

1118
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:38,080
It wasn't, it

1119
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:38,800
wasn't overnight.

1120
00:27:38,830 --> 00:27:39,100
Nope.

1121
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:41,654
And we expect that to

1122
00:27:41,654 --> 00:27:42,404
be the case here as

1123
00:27:42,404 --> 00:27:43,454
well, not 20 years.

1124
00:27:43,454 --> 00:27:44,204
I do hope not.

1125
00:27:44,204 --> 00:27:46,124
But it will be a gradual

1126
00:27:46,154 --> 00:27:47,414
shift for customers as

1127
00:27:47,414 --> 00:27:48,434
they get comfortable.

1128
00:27:48,794 --> 00:27:49,754
And so we are taking

1129
00:27:49,754 --> 00:27:50,744
that similar approach.

1130
00:27:50,744 --> 00:27:51,404
We are leading with

1131
00:27:51,404 --> 00:27:52,814
innovation, while ensuring our

1132
00:27:52,814 --> 00:27:54,404
customers can adopt the change

1133
00:27:54,884 --> 00:27:56,144
in a way that makes sense for

1134
00:27:56,144 --> 00:27:57,704
them along their timeline.

1135
00:27:58,244 --> 00:27:59,024
Yeah, what a

1136
00:27:59,024 --> 00:28:00,554
great analogy too.

1137
00:28:00,554 --> 00:28:02,414
And it really speaks to the

1138
00:28:02,414 --> 00:28:05,354
fact that while technology

1139
00:28:05,354 --> 00:28:06,794
and the way that we use

1140
00:28:06,794 --> 00:28:08,354
and consume technology does

1141
00:28:08,354 --> 00:28:10,034
have these huge influences

1142
00:28:10,034 --> 00:28:13,094
on even how we procure and

1143
00:28:13,094 --> 00:28:15,644
pay for, or the price that

1144
00:28:15,644 --> 00:28:16,754
we pay for some of these

1145
00:28:16,754 --> 00:28:18,256
services, the innovation

1146
00:28:18,256 --> 00:28:19,186
that takes place for that

1147
00:28:19,384 --> 00:28:20,674
can happen very rapidly.

1148
00:28:20,674 --> 00:28:22,084
But I, our adoption rate.

1149
00:28:22,529 --> 00:28:23,909
Maybe a little bit

1150
00:28:24,269 --> 00:28:25,019
more of a tail.

1151
00:28:25,019 --> 00:28:26,638
So, great parallel there.

1152
00:28:26,687 --> 00:28:28,391
okay, so last question for

1153
00:28:28,391 --> 00:28:29,681
you, Nupur on this topic.

1154
00:28:30,281 --> 00:28:31,931
What advice do you have for

1155
00:28:31,931 --> 00:28:33,131
a product marketer who's

1156
00:28:33,131 --> 00:28:35,021
trying to transform pricing

1157
00:28:35,021 --> 00:28:36,851
for their SaaS product?

1158
00:28:37,449 --> 00:28:37,659
Wow.

1159
00:28:38,544 --> 00:28:40,074
Pricing is never gonna

1160
00:28:40,074 --> 00:28:41,244
be a set it and forget

1161
00:28:41,244 --> 00:28:42,054
it kind of thing.

1162
00:28:42,054 --> 00:28:43,794
It just has to evolve.

1163
00:28:44,484 --> 00:28:46,254
And flexibility is everything.

1164
00:28:46,614 --> 00:28:47,424
You don't wanna lock

1165
00:28:47,424 --> 00:28:48,834
yourself into a model

1166
00:28:48,834 --> 00:28:50,664
that you can't adapt just

1167
00:28:50,664 --> 00:28:51,924
because you made a pivot

1168
00:28:51,924 --> 00:28:52,824
and you launched something.

1169
00:28:52,824 --> 00:28:54,504
So I would say what's

1170
00:28:54,504 --> 00:28:55,554
really important is staying

1171
00:28:55,554 --> 00:28:56,904
open to feedback and

1172
00:28:56,904 --> 00:28:58,134
keeping a pulse on what's

1173
00:28:58,134 --> 00:28:59,184
working and what's not.

1174
00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:00,549
And making those smart

1175
00:29:00,549 --> 00:29:01,839
adjustments along the way,

1176
00:29:02,259 --> 00:29:03,219
and that's how you'll build

1177
00:29:03,219 --> 00:29:04,179
that pricing model that

1178
00:29:04,269 --> 00:29:05,679
will actually work both for

1179
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:06,909
you and the business, but

1180
00:29:06,909 --> 00:29:07,989
also for your customers.

1181
00:29:08,784 --> 00:29:09,004
Yes.

1182
00:29:09,299 --> 00:29:09,839
I love that.

1183
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:11,069
Never said it and forget it.

1184
00:29:11,069 --> 00:29:11,759
In fact, we learned

1185
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:13,139
that through the Netflix

1186
00:29:13,139 --> 00:29:14,459
example that you gave.

1187
00:29:14,757 --> 00:29:16,317
Things happen gradually and

1188
00:29:16,317 --> 00:29:17,291
so you gotta keep in touch

1189
00:29:17,291 --> 00:29:18,911
with metrics and customer's

1190
00:29:18,911 --> 00:29:21,325
perceptions and all of

1191
00:29:21,325 --> 00:29:22,285
that that's going on on

1192
00:29:22,285 --> 00:29:23,575
a regular basis for sure.

1193
00:29:23,868 --> 00:29:25,848
okay, so now I'd like to

1194
00:29:25,848 --> 00:29:26,928
switch gears a little bit

1195
00:29:26,928 --> 00:29:28,248
and move on to the second

1196
00:29:28,248 --> 00:29:30,018
segment of our show today,

1197
00:29:30,048 --> 00:29:31,578
the messaging critique.

1198
00:29:31,998 --> 00:29:34,038
So this is where we as product

1199
00:29:34,038 --> 00:29:35,208
marketers get to analyze

1200
00:29:35,208 --> 00:29:36,888
a real world messaging.

1201
00:29:37,068 --> 00:29:38,088
But here's the fun part,

1202
00:29:38,238 --> 00:29:40,338
npo, you my guest, get

1203
00:29:40,338 --> 00:29:41,148
to choose the company.

1204
00:29:41,853 --> 00:29:43,173
That we're gonna talk about.

1205
00:29:43,670 --> 00:29:43,940
okay.

1206
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:45,530
Before we get started, I

1207
00:29:45,530 --> 00:29:46,670
wanna talk through three

1208
00:29:46,670 --> 00:29:49,340
things that I wanna focus on.

1209
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:50,810
Just some ground rules about

1210
00:29:50,810 --> 00:29:51,710
the messaging critique.

1211
00:29:51,710 --> 00:29:51,770
So.

1212
00:29:52,745 --> 00:29:54,425
First, I wanna hear something

1213
00:29:54,425 --> 00:29:55,805
that you love about the

1214
00:29:55,805 --> 00:29:57,185
product or the company

1215
00:29:57,185 --> 00:29:58,145
or the messaging, like

1216
00:29:58,145 --> 00:29:59,105
what's working really well?

1217
00:29:59,105 --> 00:29:59,945
What's, what's standing

1218
00:29:59,945 --> 00:30:00,845
out in a positive way?

1219
00:30:01,355 --> 00:30:02,599
Second, I wanna hear something

1220
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:03,979
that you wish the PMM

1221
00:30:03,979 --> 00:30:05,209
would've done differently.

1222
00:30:05,479 --> 00:30:06,349
Maybe something that would've

1223
00:30:06,349 --> 00:30:07,459
made the message clearer or

1224
00:30:07,459 --> 00:30:09,169
stronger or more impactful.

1225
00:30:09,589 --> 00:30:10,489
And then third.

1226
00:30:11,069 --> 00:30:11,729
What's a way that the

1227
00:30:11,729 --> 00:30:13,379
PMM could iterate or take

1228
00:30:13,379 --> 00:30:14,519
it to the next level?

1229
00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:15,779
Maybe think more creatively

1230
00:30:15,779 --> 00:30:18,119
about campaigns or leverage

1231
00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:19,259
voice of the customer,

1232
00:30:19,711 --> 00:30:20,851
anything to that matter.

1233
00:30:21,181 --> 00:30:22,171
So this is all about

1234
00:30:22,171 --> 00:30:23,671
learning, refining our craft.

1235
00:30:23,701 --> 00:30:24,541
No negativity.

1236
00:30:24,541 --> 00:30:25,441
Just a thoughtful,

1237
00:30:25,441 --> 00:30:26,731
constructive critique.

1238
00:30:27,061 --> 00:30:27,151
Are

1239
00:30:27,176 --> 00:30:27,466
Okay.

1240
00:30:27,471 --> 00:30:27,621
Okay.

1241
00:30:27,983 --> 00:30:28,673
Yeah, I got

1242
00:30:28,758 --> 00:30:28,908
All right.

1243
00:30:29,033 --> 00:30:29,333
great.

1244
00:30:29,603 --> 00:30:30,203
Excited.

1245
00:30:30,811 --> 00:30:31,351
Okay.

1246
00:30:31,381 --> 00:30:33,181
So tell me what

1247
00:30:33,181 --> 00:30:34,801
product or company has

1248
00:30:34,801 --> 00:30:36,091
caught your attention?

1249
00:30:36,151 --> 00:30:36,781
Good, bad.

1250
00:30:36,781 --> 00:30:37,591
Somewhere in between.

1251
00:30:38,435 --> 00:30:39,065
Oh my god.

1252
00:30:39,605 --> 00:30:39,995
Goodbye.

1253
00:30:39,995 --> 00:30:40,835
Or Somewhere in between.

1254
00:30:40,835 --> 00:30:41,495
That's funny that

1255
00:30:41,495 --> 00:30:42,065
you say that.

1256
00:30:42,335 --> 00:30:44,015
Have you heard of pure.co?

1257
00:30:44,644 --> 00:30:45,394
No.

1258
00:30:45,694 --> 00:30:46,204
Okay.

1259
00:30:46,624 --> 00:30:47,824
pierre.co.

1260
00:30:48,101 --> 00:30:48,851
I'm plugging it into

1261
00:30:48,851 --> 00:30:49,961
my browser right now.

1262
00:30:50,215 --> 00:30:50,935
Please do that.

1263
00:30:50,935 --> 00:30:51,325
Yes.

1264
00:30:51,325 --> 00:30:52,705
Let's pull up their website.

1265
00:30:53,052 --> 00:30:54,292
have got a warning label.

1266
00:30:54,843 --> 00:30:55,473
They should.

1267
00:30:55,892 --> 00:30:56,491
they really should.

1268
00:30:56,491 --> 00:30:57,241
And I'll tell you why.

1269
00:30:57,241 --> 00:30:59,041
So before we get into it, let

1270
00:30:59,041 --> 00:31:00,181
me tell you what they are.

1271
00:31:00,301 --> 00:31:01,981
You know how GitHub board

1272
00:31:01,981 --> 00:31:03,481
reviews, they feel like

1273
00:31:03,751 --> 00:31:04,501
they're trying to have a

1274
00:31:04,501 --> 00:31:05,851
deep conversation over email.

1275
00:31:05,851 --> 00:31:06,481
That's not great.

1276
00:31:06,481 --> 00:31:06,811
No.

1277
00:31:06,871 --> 00:31:07,621
No one likes that.

1278
00:31:08,294 --> 00:31:09,794
engineers don't need

1279
00:31:09,794 --> 00:31:10,694
a feed-based social

1280
00:31:10,694 --> 00:31:11,594
network for coding.

1281
00:31:11,594 --> 00:31:12,884
They need something fast,

1282
00:31:12,884 --> 00:31:14,084
collaborative and actually

1283
00:31:14,084 --> 00:31:16,124
built for productivity and.

1284
00:31:16,384 --> 00:31:16,924
I think that's

1285
00:31:16,924 --> 00:31:17,884
where Pure comes in.

1286
00:31:17,914 --> 00:31:19,054
It lets engineers take

1287
00:31:19,054 --> 00:31:20,284
control of how their code is

1288
00:31:20,284 --> 00:31:22,594
reviewed, and it's really, I

1289
00:31:22,594 --> 00:31:24,604
think, solving for two biggest

1290
00:31:24,874 --> 00:31:26,014
pain points or headaches,

1291
00:31:26,014 --> 00:31:27,004
however you wanna call it.

1292
00:31:27,522 --> 00:31:29,232
one is setting better

1293
00:31:29,232 --> 00:31:30,792
context so your reviewer

1294
00:31:30,792 --> 00:31:31,872
isn't guessing what you

1295
00:31:31,872 --> 00:31:33,222
wrote and why it's looking

1296
00:31:33,222 --> 00:31:34,422
weird in this weird looking

1297
00:31:34,422 --> 00:31:35,622
syntax and function.

1298
00:31:36,138 --> 00:31:37,105
and then the second one

1299
00:31:37,105 --> 00:31:38,515
is managing discussions

1300
00:31:38,905 --> 00:31:39,775
so that feedback

1301
00:31:39,775 --> 00:31:40,855
doesn't turn into this.

1302
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,390
50 comment thread that

1303
00:31:43,630 --> 00:31:44,650
nobody wants to read.

1304
00:31:44,650 --> 00:31:45,940
It just goes on and on.

1305
00:31:46,390 --> 00:31:47,980
And so  the way that they

1306
00:31:47,980 --> 00:31:49,480
describe it on Y Combinator

1307
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,610
is that it took the best parts

1308
00:31:51,610 --> 00:31:53,350
of iMessage for organized,

1309
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:54,700
snappy conversations.

1310
00:31:54,940 --> 00:31:55,840
Figma for real

1311
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:56,620
time collaboration.

1312
00:31:56,620 --> 00:31:58,000
I know we all love Figma and

1313
00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,380
notion for that structure.

1314
00:31:59,380 --> 00:32:00,790
Narrative driven review,

1315
00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:01,960
and then they built a

1316
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,040
code review tool that

1317
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:03,670
actually makes sense.

1318
00:32:03,805 --> 00:32:04,175
Ooh.

1319
00:32:04,396 --> 00:32:04,876
Ooh.

1320
00:32:04,936 --> 00:32:06,436
Okay, so for listeners,

1321
00:32:06,436 --> 00:32:08,536
it's pierre.co.

1322
00:32:08,536 --> 00:32:11,176
P-I-E-R-R e.co.

1323
00:32:12,144 --> 00:32:13,344
I'm on the website now

1324
00:32:13,394 --> 00:32:14,292
I can't even see

1325
00:32:14,292 --> 00:32:15,252
their messaging yet.

1326
00:32:15,252 --> 00:32:16,302
I guess like my first

1327
00:32:16,302 --> 00:32:18,282
impression is warning,

1328
00:32:18,552 --> 00:32:19,992
the following experience

1329
00:32:19,992 --> 00:32:21,912
may result in permanent

1330
00:32:21,912 --> 00:32:23,592
eyesight and or eye

1331
00:32:23,592 --> 00:32:25,362
color abnormalities.

1332
00:32:25,692 --> 00:32:26,022
If you

1333
00:32:26,022 --> 00:32:27,702
think modern code review is

1334
00:32:27,702 --> 00:32:31,242
fine as is, turn back Okay.

1335
00:32:31,542 --> 00:32:32,502
Before I click further,

1336
00:32:32,502 --> 00:32:33,462
before I click further.

1337
00:32:33,957 --> 00:32:35,397
They are outlining the

1338
00:32:35,397 --> 00:32:36,477
exact challenge that

1339
00:32:36,477 --> 00:32:37,197
they're set out to solve.

1340
00:32:37,347 --> 00:32:37,887
I mean, you just

1341
00:32:37,887 --> 00:32:38,577
said it, right?

1342
00:32:38,637 --> 00:32:40,197
Like if, if you think

1343
00:32:40,197 --> 00:32:41,337
modern code review is

1344
00:32:41,337 --> 00:32:43,107
fine as is, turn back.

1345
00:32:43,460 --> 00:32:43,790
yeah.

1346
00:32:43,790 --> 00:32:44,780
Well first off, they've

1347
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,030
rebranded as the Pure Computer

1348
00:32:47,030 --> 00:32:48,500
Company, which I think is

1349
00:32:48,605 --> 00:32:49,010
brilliant.

1350
00:32:49,010 --> 00:32:49,610
see that.

1351
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:50,180
I see that.

1352
00:32:50,210 --> 00:32:50,630
Okay.

1353
00:32:51,005 --> 00:32:51,215
Yeah.

1354
00:32:51,215 --> 00:32:51,785
that's brilliant.

1355
00:32:51,785 --> 00:32:52,655
That's a tongue in cheek

1356
00:32:52,655 --> 00:32:53,645
move and it's right

1357
00:32:53,645 --> 00:32:54,365
for their audience.

1358
00:32:54,365 --> 00:32:55,625
It's got that perfect

1359
00:32:55,625 --> 00:32:57,845
mix of nerdy, nostalgic,

1360
00:32:57,845 --> 00:32:59,105
and self-aware that makes

1361
00:32:59,105 --> 00:33:00,395
you instantly curious.

1362
00:33:00,395 --> 00:33:01,805
So that's amazing.

1363
00:33:02,308 --> 00:33:03,268
and that homepage,

1364
00:33:03,268 --> 00:33:04,258
like absolute goal,

1365
00:33:04,528 --> 00:33:05,428
it just grabs your

1366
00:33:05,563 --> 00:33:06,043
Okay.

1367
00:33:06,268 --> 00:33:06,598
right?

1368
00:33:07,573 --> 00:33:08,443
Yeah, I mean, I

1369
00:33:08,443 --> 00:33:09,433
haven't clicked it yet.

1370
00:33:09,493 --> 00:33:10,693
There's a little spinning

1371
00:33:10,693 --> 00:33:12,973
button that says  click, at

1372
00:33:12,973 --> 00:33:14,263
your own risk or something.

1373
00:33:14,263 --> 00:33:14,773
What does it say?

1374
00:33:15,774 --> 00:33:16,584
You should click it.

1375
00:33:16,794 --> 00:33:17,244
Click it.

1376
00:33:17,860 --> 00:33:18,190
Okay.

1377
00:33:18,190 --> 00:33:18,790
Clicking,

1378
00:33:19,095 --> 00:33:19,305
uh

1379
00:33:19,499 --> 00:33:20,039
There you go.

1380
00:33:20,639 --> 00:33:21,269
Yeah.

1381
00:33:21,453 --> 00:33:22,773
that homepage, it's gold.

1382
00:33:22,773 --> 00:33:24,273
It's grabbing your attention.

1383
00:33:24,753 --> 00:33:25,503
It's too much.

1384
00:33:25,683 --> 00:33:26,403
It's too much.

1385
00:33:26,608 --> 00:33:28,678
there's like a static

1386
00:33:28,678 --> 00:33:30,273
noise there, eyes like

1387
00:33:30,393 --> 00:33:31,773
flowing across the screen.

1388
00:33:32,763 --> 00:33:34,413
Bright neon light, not

1389
00:33:34,413 --> 00:33:35,493
lights, but like bright

1390
00:33:35,493 --> 00:33:37,173
neon text that's just

1391
00:33:37,173 --> 00:33:38,733
jumping across the screen.

1392
00:33:39,533 --> 00:33:42,983
It feels almost like I took

1393
00:33:42,983 --> 00:33:44,423
some kind of psychedelic drug.

1394
00:33:45,127 --> 00:33:45,427
Yeah.

1395
00:33:46,522 --> 00:33:47,572
Yeah, just keep

1396
00:33:47,627 --> 00:33:48,952
scrolling and scrolling.

1397
00:33:48,952 --> 00:33:49,552
It's just gonna

1398
00:33:49,552 --> 00:33:50,752
keep it in minder.

1399
00:33:51,632 --> 00:33:52,742
every section's gonna be more

1400
00:33:52,742 --> 00:33:53,822
over the top and honestly, I

1401
00:33:53,822 --> 00:33:55,082
just can't stop looking away.

1402
00:33:55,082 --> 00:33:55,772
Is that me?

1403
00:33:55,772 --> 00:33:56,612
Is something wrong with me?

1404
00:33:56,612 --> 00:33:56,732
I.

1405
00:33:56,732 --> 00:33:57,032
don't know.

1406
00:33:57,796 --> 00:33:58,576
they got me where

1407
00:33:58,576 --> 00:33:59,356
they wanted me

1408
00:33:59,778 --> 00:34:00,678
Oh, there's more.

1409
00:34:00,828 --> 00:34:01,878
it gets more and more

1410
00:34:01,878 --> 00:34:02,988
wild as you scroll.

1411
00:34:03,671 --> 00:34:04,112
Okay.

1412
00:34:04,352 --> 00:34:07,082
Tell me what's working, what

1413
00:34:07,082 --> 00:34:08,882
are you liking about how

1414
00:34:08,882 --> 00:34:11,462
the PMM took this messaging?

1415
00:34:11,462 --> 00:34:12,602
I'll have to say, though, I

1416
00:34:12,602 --> 00:34:15,032
can't, it's so distracting.

1417
00:34:15,032 --> 00:34:16,862
Once you click into it beyond

1418
00:34:16,862 --> 00:34:18,842
the warning label, I'm so

1419
00:34:18,842 --> 00:34:21,317
overwhelmed that I'm lost.

1420
00:34:21,377 --> 00:34:21,947
I'm like, where do

1421
00:34:21,947 --> 00:34:22,937
I, where do I go?

1422
00:34:22,937 --> 00:34:24,137
What do I, it's almost

1423
00:34:24,137 --> 00:34:25,097
like they're making,

1424
00:34:25,157 --> 00:34:26,357
maybe making a statement.

1425
00:34:26,852 --> 00:34:28,622
On the problem.

1426
00:34:28,802 --> 00:34:29,192
I don't know.

1427
00:34:29,192 --> 00:34:29,762
I'm gonna pause.

1428
00:34:29,762 --> 00:34:30,542
I'm gonna let you tell me

1429
00:34:30,542 --> 00:34:32,072
like what's working, what's,

1430
00:34:32,206 --> 00:34:33,371
what are you liking about it?

1431
00:34:33,895 --> 00:34:35,275
Yeah, Well, I mean,

1432
00:34:35,545 --> 00:34:36,325
that's, the part, Right.

1433
00:34:36,325 --> 00:34:36,895
It grabs your

1434
00:34:36,895 --> 00:34:38,005
attention immediately.

1435
00:34:38,425 --> 00:34:39,535
I mean, and you can't blame

1436
00:34:39,535 --> 00:34:41,245
them like they wanted to

1437
00:34:41,245 --> 00:34:43,135
shock you and they wanted

1438
00:34:43,135 --> 00:34:44,005
to give you that experience,

1439
00:34:44,005 --> 00:34:46,225
so they did warn you and

1440
00:34:46,315 --> 00:34:47,185
they caught you where

1441
00:34:47,185 --> 00:34:48,415
they wanted you to be.

1442
00:34:48,565 --> 00:34:49,915
Like, you are there now on

1443
00:34:49,915 --> 00:34:51,175
their website and we are

1444
00:34:51,175 --> 00:34:52,465
talking about them today.

1445
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,500
But you know, there is

1446
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:56,000
like some things I feel

1447
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:56,570
like they could have

1448
00:34:56,570 --> 00:34:57,470
done a little bit better.

1449
00:34:57,470 --> 00:34:59,510
You know, obviously we

1450
00:34:59,510 --> 00:35:00,560
wanna get a clearer picture

1451
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:01,280
of what they're building

1452
00:35:01,310 --> 00:35:01,880
'cause they've got us

1453
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,720
on their website and we

1454
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,530
are talking about it.

1455
00:35:03,530 --> 00:35:05,510
But finding that is a bit

1456
00:35:05,510 --> 00:35:06,860
of a puzzle, you know.

1457
00:35:07,625 --> 00:35:09,365
I wish the site made it

1458
00:35:09,365 --> 00:35:10,475
more obvious that they

1459
00:35:10,475 --> 00:35:11,405
were creating a better

1460
00:35:11,435 --> 00:35:12,875
GitHub, because that

1461
00:35:12,875 --> 00:35:14,195
would be a game changer.

1462
00:35:14,495 --> 00:35:15,455
You know, I had to piece

1463
00:35:15,455 --> 00:35:16,385
that together from other

1464
00:35:16,385 --> 00:35:17,645
sources, but it'd be great

1465
00:35:17,645 --> 00:35:18,995
if that site just spelled

1466
00:35:18,995 --> 00:35:20,015
it out a little bit more.

1467
00:35:20,676 --> 00:35:22,026
and that said, this could

1468
00:35:22,026 --> 00:35:23,496
just be their shock in office.

1469
00:35:23,496 --> 00:35:24,636
You know, they just wanna

1470
00:35:24,636 --> 00:35:27,216
set the stage before rolling

1471
00:35:27,216 --> 00:35:28,656
out more details, and maybe

1472
00:35:28,656 --> 00:35:29,826
that deeper explanation

1473
00:35:29,826 --> 00:35:31,026
is gonna come soon.

1474
00:35:31,655 --> 00:35:32,795
I mean if you're still on the,

1475
00:35:32,855 --> 00:35:34,505
on the side, I would encourage

1476
00:35:34,505 --> 00:35:35,765
you to click on docs.

1477
00:35:36,584 --> 00:35:37,124
All right.

1478
00:35:37,334 --> 00:35:37,904
Okay.

1479
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:39,800
Less overwhelming, more

1480
00:35:39,965 --> 00:35:40,955
Let's forward that one.

1481
00:35:41,135 --> 00:35:41,525
Yep.

1482
00:35:42,246 --> 00:35:42,966
Very clear.

1483
00:35:42,966 --> 00:35:44,886
So, I wish the homepage

1484
00:35:44,886 --> 00:35:46,086
on Docs had more product

1485
00:35:46,086 --> 00:35:47,106
screenshots that would've

1486
00:35:47,106 --> 00:35:47,976
pulled me in because

1487
00:35:47,976 --> 00:35:48,966
if you click on one of

1488
00:35:48,966 --> 00:35:50,376
them, you'll see that

1489
00:35:50,376 --> 00:35:51,756
this is more traditional.

1490
00:35:52,531 --> 00:35:53,521
I would almost say that

1491
00:35:53,521 --> 00:35:54,781
they could skip this extra

1492
00:35:54,871 --> 00:35:56,281
docs homepage altogether and

1493
00:35:56,281 --> 00:35:57,631
just drop me straight into

1494
00:35:57,631 --> 00:35:58,861
a main page with a left hand

1495
00:35:59,006 --> 00:36:00,236
menu  And I mean, if you're

1496
00:36:00,236 --> 00:36:01,166
still on there, you should

1497
00:36:01,166 --> 00:36:02,186
also check out their change

1498
00:36:02,186 --> 00:36:03,176
log, because that's where

1499
00:36:03,446 --> 00:36:05,306
things are are gonna be funny.

1500
00:36:05,306 --> 00:36:06,146
I, I would say,

1501
00:36:06,448 --> 00:36:06,988
Oh,

1502
00:36:07,722 --> 00:36:08,142
yeah.

1503
00:36:08,952 --> 00:36:10,182
So they have only

1504
00:36:10,182 --> 00:36:11,922
one change log entry.

1505
00:36:12,132 --> 00:36:13,632
It's called building a Brand.

1506
00:36:14,232 --> 00:36:15,612
Funny that they

1507
00:36:15,612 --> 00:36:16,362
are doing that.

1508
00:36:16,692 --> 00:36:18,102
You know, traditionally

1509
00:36:18,102 --> 00:36:18,882
I would say building a

1510
00:36:18,882 --> 00:36:20,052
brand would've been a blog

1511
00:36:20,052 --> 00:36:21,192
post, not a change log,

1512
00:36:21,192 --> 00:36:22,482
but like, let's be real.

1513
00:36:23,322 --> 00:36:24,342
Nothing about this

1514
00:36:24,342 --> 00:36:25,542
company is traditional

1515
00:36:25,873 --> 00:36:26,858
and I love that

1516
00:36:26,893 --> 00:36:27,643
they just own it.

1517
00:36:27,733 --> 00:36:28,633
These straight up leave

1518
00:36:28,633 --> 00:36:29,743
placeholders instead

1519
00:36:29,743 --> 00:36:30,553
of pretending there's

1520
00:36:30,553 --> 00:36:32,443
more that's just.

1521
00:36:32,488 --> 00:36:35,368
So on Brag for their audience.

1522
00:36:35,368 --> 00:36:36,058
Just look at that.

1523
00:36:36,627 --> 00:36:38,407
So they're not going

1524
00:36:38,407 --> 00:36:39,097
for, you know, the

1525
00:36:39,097 --> 00:36:40,837
enterprise button up play.

1526
00:36:40,837 --> 00:36:41,917
They're just leaning into

1527
00:36:41,917 --> 00:36:43,357
the chaos almost making a

1528
00:36:43,357 --> 00:36:45,277
mockery of the usual approach.

1529
00:36:45,973 --> 00:36:46,753
that's what the developer

1530
00:36:46,753 --> 00:36:47,563
community wants.

1531
00:36:47,563 --> 00:36:49,093
They eat that up, they

1532
00:36:49,093 --> 00:36:50,563
value authenticity and

1533
00:36:50,623 --> 00:36:52,093
Pure has that part nailed.

1534
00:36:52,614 --> 00:36:53,604
and by the way.

1535
00:36:54,144 --> 00:36:55,014
I don't know if you wanna do

1536
00:36:55,014 --> 00:36:56,604
this, but I mean, if you, if

1537
00:36:56,604 --> 00:36:57,954
you're feeling wild today,

1538
00:36:58,344 --> 00:36:59,634
click on the brand article

1539
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:01,940
there's another warning label.

1540
00:37:02,569 --> 00:37:03,199
that's right.

1541
00:37:03,199 --> 00:37:04,858
And it says, Warning.

1542
00:37:04,974 --> 00:37:05,694
Yes,

1543
00:37:05,918 --> 00:37:08,018
see more or you wanna

1544
00:37:08,706 --> 00:37:09,324
yes.

1545
00:37:09,414 --> 00:37:10,464
I like aggressive

1546
00:37:10,464 --> 00:37:11,664
colors and noises.

1547
00:37:13,554 --> 00:37:14,119
No, that sounds bad.

1548
00:37:15,268 --> 00:37:15,558
Well.

1549
00:37:15,988 --> 00:37:16,918
I see click on.

1550
00:37:16,918 --> 00:37:18,298
No, that sounds bad because

1551
00:37:18,298 --> 00:37:19,558
honestly, I clicked on it

1552
00:37:19,558 --> 00:37:20,908
once and I'm not about to

1553
00:37:20,908 --> 00:37:21,898
assume this audience is

1554
00:37:22,018 --> 00:37:23,158
totally fine with whatever

1555
00:37:23,158 --> 00:37:24,238
madness comes next.

1556
00:37:25,093 --> 00:37:25,633
I clicked.

1557
00:37:25,663 --> 00:37:26,443
I, I clicked.

1558
00:37:26,443 --> 00:37:26,953
Yes.

1559
00:37:26,953 --> 00:37:27,628
And that was a

1560
00:37:27,658 --> 00:37:28,788
immediate mistake.

1561
00:37:29,638 --> 00:37:32,270
Yeah, it's just hilarious.

1562
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:32,600
But

1563
00:37:33,021 --> 00:37:34,471
It's, they're absolutely

1564
00:37:34,471 --> 00:37:35,736
making a mockery

1565
00:37:35,736 --> 00:37:37,176
of the current kind

1566
00:37:37,176 --> 00:37:38,676
of, uh, status quo.

1567
00:37:38,856 --> 00:37:39,486
Absolutely.

1568
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:40,010
exactly.

1569
00:37:40,980 --> 00:37:42,060
well, I mean, if I had to

1570
00:37:42,060 --> 00:37:43,740
sum up my experience with

1571
00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:45,900
peers so far, authenticity

1572
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:46,980
and audience nailed it.

1573
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:48,090
They know exactly who

1574
00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:48,870
they're speaking to.

1575
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:49,680
They lean all the way

1576
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,226
in, positioning and

1577
00:37:51,226 --> 00:37:52,486
competitive differentiation

1578
00:37:52,606 --> 00:37:53,476
that needs work.

1579
00:37:53,967 --> 00:37:55,347
right now it's all wives.

1580
00:37:55,407 --> 00:37:56,127
I'd love to see a

1581
00:37:56,127 --> 00:37:58,047
picture of y pure,

1582
00:37:58,561 --> 00:38:00,029
especially for new users.

1583
00:38:00,299 --> 00:38:00,719
And then.

1584
00:38:01,349 --> 00:38:02,519
I would say the user journeys

1585
00:38:02,609 --> 00:38:03,569
are a little bit of a maze.

1586
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:04,859
So the shock and

1587
00:38:04,859 --> 00:38:05,879
off factor is great.

1588
00:38:05,879 --> 00:38:06,479
I love it.

1589
00:38:06,779 --> 00:38:07,799
But at some point you want

1590
00:38:07,799 --> 00:38:08,969
more, and that's always

1591
00:38:08,969 --> 00:38:10,049
not so easy to find.

1592
00:38:10,379 --> 00:38:11,819
But for now, this

1593
00:38:11,819 --> 00:38:13,919
approach totally works.

1594
00:38:14,279 --> 00:38:15,329
They're banking on that

1595
00:38:15,329 --> 00:38:16,379
word of mouth and the

1596
00:38:16,379 --> 00:38:17,339
developer community to

1597
00:38:17,339 --> 00:38:18,419
fuel adoption, which is

1598
00:38:18,419 --> 00:38:21,509
I. think, smart led move.

1599
00:38:21,990 --> 00:38:23,760
but long term, they'll wanna

1600
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:24,630
make it more clear about

1601
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:26,130
what p actually is, because

1602
00:38:26,460 --> 00:38:27,150
Yeah.

1603
00:38:27,150 --> 00:38:27,180
I.

1604
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:28,230
with answers, not

1605
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:29,160
just the experience.

1606
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,530
I think you're spot on.

1607
00:38:31,530 --> 00:38:33,240
I know you mentioned puzzles

1608
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:34,320
and I think that's also

1609
00:38:34,380 --> 00:38:36,120
clearly so intentional.

1610
00:38:36,435 --> 00:38:37,057
as they scale.

1611
00:38:37,057 --> 00:38:37,237
Yeah.

1612
00:38:37,237 --> 00:38:37,927
I predict that they're

1613
00:38:37,927 --> 00:38:38,767
gonna have some diminishing

1614
00:38:38,767 --> 00:38:39,487
returns, so they're gonna

1615
00:38:39,487 --> 00:38:40,897
have to, and to your point,

1616
00:38:40,897 --> 00:38:43,087
like they, it must be part

1617
00:38:43,087 --> 00:38:44,377
of their rollout, right?

1618
00:38:44,497 --> 00:38:45,727
Like, I'm sure they plan

1619
00:38:45,727 --> 00:38:46,807
on coming, coming out with

1620
00:38:46,807 --> 00:38:47,947
something more clearer.

1621
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:49,060
but for now, just

1622
00:38:49,420 --> 00:38:51,280
really diving hard

1623
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,900
into, the shock value.

1624
00:38:54,328 --> 00:38:54,838
Wow.

1625
00:38:54,949 --> 00:38:56,539
shout out to Pierre

1626
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:57,949
Pmms out there.

1627
00:38:57,949 --> 00:38:59,239
You guys are super,

1628
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,559
super creative.

1629
00:39:00,739 --> 00:39:01,519
Great job with the

1630
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:03,439
storytelling way to dive into.

1631
00:39:04,299 --> 00:39:06,069
Delivering a differentiated

1632
00:39:06,069 --> 00:39:06,999
web experience.

1633
00:39:08,859 --> 00:39:10,089
Um, super cool.

1634
00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:12,129
Okay, so Nupur, before

1635
00:39:12,129 --> 00:39:13,429
we go, I just wanna have

1636
00:39:13,429 --> 00:39:14,749
a gratitude moment and

1637
00:39:14,749 --> 00:39:16,639
say thank you so much for

1638
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:17,839
your willingness to share.

1639
00:39:18,659 --> 00:39:20,039
Your knowledge and expertise

1640
00:39:20,039 --> 00:39:21,299
on pricing and all things

1641
00:39:21,299 --> 00:39:22,868
product marketing,  you're

1642
00:39:22,868 --> 00:39:24,098
such an inspiration to

1643
00:39:24,098 --> 00:39:26,318
me and the PMM community.

1644
00:39:26,318 --> 00:39:28,088
So thank you so much.

1645
00:39:28,328 --> 00:39:28,658
Thank you.

1646
00:39:28,658 --> 00:39:29,138
Thank you.

1647
00:39:29,543 --> 00:39:30,512
and I wanna turn

1648
00:39:30,512 --> 00:39:31,022
it over to you.

1649
00:39:31,322 --> 00:39:33,152
What, pmms, maybe one or

1650
00:39:33,152 --> 00:39:34,982
two, three pmms have really

1651
00:39:34,982 --> 00:39:36,482
inspired you and your work and

1652
00:39:36,482 --> 00:39:37,952
made an impact on your career.

1653
00:39:38,531 --> 00:39:39,661
Well, Elle, you.

1654
00:39:39,661 --> 00:39:41,221
are just far too kind.

1655
00:39:41,221 --> 00:39:42,541
I feel like I'm not deserving

1656
00:39:42,541 --> 00:39:43,951
of So much kindness, but

1657
00:39:44,338 --> 00:39:45,271
I mean, you are such a big

1658
00:39:45,271 --> 00:39:46,501
influence on me as well.

1659
00:39:46,501 --> 00:39:48,121
You're doing amazing work with

1660
00:39:48,121 --> 00:39:49,711
this podcast and, and with

1661
00:39:49,711 --> 00:39:50,701
everything that you're doing,

1662
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,050
over in your career as well.

1663
00:39:52,438 --> 00:39:53,333
if I had to.

1664
00:39:53,978 --> 00:39:55,448
Think about people that

1665
00:39:55,448 --> 00:39:56,708
I want to extend my, you

1666
00:39:56,708 --> 00:39:57,728
know, heartfelt gratitude

1667
00:39:57,728 --> 00:40:00,368
to, I would say Charla,

1668
00:40:00,368 --> 00:40:01,418
who I think we both know.

1669
00:40:01,628 --> 00:40:03,038
She's had a big influence.

1670
00:40:03,618 --> 00:40:04,227
you know, she's never

1671
00:40:04,227 --> 00:40:05,547
been a direct manager, but

1672
00:40:05,877 --> 00:40:07,047
every conversation that

1673
00:40:07,047 --> 00:40:08,247
I have with her has just

1674
00:40:08,247 --> 00:40:09,687
made me a better manager.

1675
00:40:10,287 --> 00:40:12,537
She has this incredible

1676
00:40:12,597 --> 00:40:14,037
ability to draw insights

1677
00:40:14,097 --> 00:40:15,327
out of me just by asking

1678
00:40:15,327 --> 00:40:17,307
the right questions or my

1679
00:40:17,307 --> 00:40:18,177
thinking in a new direction.

1680
00:40:18,267 --> 00:40:19,906
She's One of the most

1681
00:40:19,906 --> 00:40:21,346
insightful people I know,

1682
00:40:21,906 --> 00:40:22,746
and then there's Claire by,

1683
00:40:23,046 --> 00:40:24,366
she's incredibly sharp and

1684
00:40:24,996 --> 00:40:26,286
one of the most impressive

1685
00:40:26,286 --> 00:40:27,516
things about her is how

1686
00:40:27,516 --> 00:40:29,556
she's built this magnetic

1687
00:40:29,556 --> 00:40:31,086
circle of top talent.

1688
00:40:31,446 --> 00:40:32,556
People just naturally

1689
00:40:32,556 --> 00:40:33,881
gravitate to wherever she

1690
00:40:33,881 --> 00:40:35,556
is, and that's not luck.

1691
00:40:35,616 --> 00:40:36,456
It's a skill.

1692
00:40:36,973 --> 00:40:38,197
and creating that kind

1693
00:40:38,197 --> 00:40:39,547
of influence and loyalty

1694
00:40:39,667 --> 00:40:41,137
really speaks volumes about

1695
00:40:41,137 --> 00:40:42,337
her leadership and impact.

1696
00:40:43,207 --> 00:40:44,587
Um, and then finally Sarah

1697
00:40:44,587 --> 00:40:47,056
Varney, who was, uh, the CM

1698
00:40:47,056 --> 00:40:48,316
of Twilio back in the day.

1699
00:40:48,706 --> 00:40:50,416
And she's one of the most

1700
00:40:50,416 --> 00:40:52,546
genuinely accessible leaders

1701
00:40:52,546 --> 00:40:53,386
I've ever worked with.

1702
00:40:54,196 --> 00:40:55,216
People love her,

1703
00:40:55,216 --> 00:40:55,996
they adore her.

1704
00:40:56,496 --> 00:40:56,796
you know, what's

1705
00:40:56,796 --> 00:40:57,546
special about her?

1706
00:40:58,044 --> 00:40:59,454
She's really great at

1707
00:40:59,454 --> 00:41:01,164
creating lasting memories

1708
00:41:01,164 --> 00:41:02,454
for everyone She works with.

1709
00:41:02,454 --> 00:41:03,594
Everyone has a special

1710
00:41:03,594 --> 00:41:05,139
memory with Sarah,  and

1711
00:41:05,139 --> 00:41:06,099
that's kind of, you know,

1712
00:41:06,099 --> 00:41:07,209
that's a genuine connection.

1713
00:41:07,209 --> 00:41:08,079
It's just rare.

1714
00:41:08,677 --> 00:41:10,237
likeability matters a lot, and

1715
00:41:10,237 --> 00:41:11,557
I think she embodies it in a

1716
00:41:11,557 --> 00:41:13,717
way that makes her not just

1717
00:41:13,717 --> 00:41:14,827
a great leader, but someone

1718
00:41:14,827 --> 00:41:16,867
people truly want to follow.

1719
00:41:17,328 --> 00:41:18,048
Yes.

1720
00:41:18,138 --> 00:41:19,608
Oh, I could not agree more.

1721
00:41:20,058 --> 00:41:20,598
Yes.

1722
00:41:20,598 --> 00:41:21,978
And uh, you mentioned

1723
00:41:21,978 --> 00:41:24,318
three women who I also

1724
00:41:24,318 --> 00:41:25,398
had the privilege of

1725
00:41:25,428 --> 00:41:28,278
working with and for, and

1726
00:41:28,428 --> 00:41:30,258
I could not agree more.

1727
00:41:30,384 --> 00:41:31,674
so amazing.

1728
00:41:31,674 --> 00:41:32,304
Yes.

1729
00:41:32,334 --> 00:41:34,014
Uh, okay, Nupur, one, one

1730
00:41:34,014 --> 00:41:35,334
last question for you.

1731
00:41:35,781 --> 00:41:36,561
where else can we

1732
00:41:36,561 --> 00:41:37,641
find your expertise?

1733
00:41:37,641 --> 00:41:38,331
Is it just best to

1734
00:41:38,331 --> 00:41:39,351
follow you on LinkedIn?

1735
00:41:39,924 --> 00:41:40,674
Yes, LinkedIn?

1736
00:41:40,674 --> 00:41:41,034
for now.

1737
00:41:41,034 --> 00:41:42,054
So just hit me up.

1738
00:41:42,534 --> 00:41:43,704
We are looking for full stack

1739
00:41:43,704 --> 00:41:45,024
product marketers and if

1740
00:41:45,024 --> 00:41:45,924
that's something that's of

1741
00:41:45,924 --> 00:41:47,304
interest, please reach out.

1742
00:41:47,394 --> 00:41:48,469
I'm always happy to chat.

1743
00:41:49,152 --> 00:41:49,992
Awesome.

1744
00:41:50,202 --> 00:41:51,462
Thank you again, Nupur,

1745
00:41:51,792 --> 00:41:53,412
and thank you PMM listeners

1746
00:41:53,412 --> 00:41:54,072
for coming on this

1747
00:41:54,072 --> 00:41:55,452
adventure with us today.

1748
00:41:55,752 --> 00:41:57,702
I hope this episode leaves

1749
00:41:57,702 --> 00:41:58,782
you with inspiration

1750
00:41:58,812 --> 00:42:00,972
to take into your next

1751
00:42:00,972 --> 00:42:02,100
step of your journey.