I'm Travis Bader and this is The
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All right.
Here's the much anticipated part
two of the urban awareness podcasts
that we've recorded a couple of weeks ago.
Now we decided to break it down into three parts
before the incident, during the incident
and after the incident.
And we've actually received a fair bit of
feedback from the first podcast that came out.
And we're going to be talking about that
a little bit in this podcast, but the crux
of this prod cast episode here will
be some suggestions on what to do if you
are in an incident, the during stage.
And, you know, we talked about some other colors
and in our first podcast, it was a big emphasis
on yellow and orange.
Today it's red and contrary to everything
you've ever learned.
Red is go, red is go, and we're going to
learn how we make red as the go, or learn.
We're going to discuss it.
This is not a, this is not a training thing,
this is a discussion.
Now I should shut out right at the
very beginning.
One of the people I spoke with is, uh, he's
an ex British special forces, uh, individual
who's written a book on this topic about what
we're talking about now.
He hasn't published a book yet, but he's in
the process of getting it published, but he has
a social media account called sixsight.co
S I X S I G H t.co.
And if you go on his TikTok account or on his
Instagram account, You're going to see a whole ton
of useful information, broken down into just
little bite sized chunks and you'll take some
videos and you'll look at it and I'd recommend
anybody after listening to this, check that out.
Okay.
I also had a, uh, an individual call up
Paul, were talking about this earlier and
he works for the Range Langley, fantastic range.
I'd recommend anybody in the lower mainland
or anyone visiting the lower mainland.
Go check out The Range Langley.
You don't even need to have a firearms license,
you can rent firearms, you can use them there.
But, uh, this fellow, Jared, he's a range
officer there and he was sitting in a Browns.
What is it?
socialhouse, browns pub.
Brown socialhouse, I guess.
Brown socialhouse.
There's a plug for brown socialhouse.
I guess so, out in Burnaby and this was
2017 and there was a shooting that happened
right in front of him.
And he was on a date at the time.
So we'll talk a little bit about the, that
incident or what he relayed in it.
In the during, as well as we'll touch a little
bit on the after and then get into more
of the next podcast.
Yeah.
And I think it's important before we
get into this, too, just to talk about the
impressions that we got from the listeners.
And one of the things was, you
know, people said, oh Jesus, all great.
You know, uh, if it's a shooting or a stabbing or
a, an active, um, type of situation like that, but
this needs to, you know, open your mind here.
This, this applies to, uh, an individual
assault, this applies to you're out for a
jog, uh, and somebody starts to jog with
you or follow you, uh, you know, leading to
a potential robbery or sexual assault,
any, anything that is of a traumatic event.
At the, you know, sort of at the behest of
somebody who has evil intent, we really have
to, you know, emphasize this is not, you
know, training for the accidental occurrence.
This is not for the, you know, trip and
fall type of thing.
This is where somebody has evil intent and
you need to be able to, you know, avoid that.
And that's where we're going with this.
So it, you know, again, uh, you're out there
walking your dog fluffy and, uh, coming the
other way is the urban wolf on the end of
somebody's chain and, you know, understanding
what happens if all of a sudden that that pit
bull turns and starts to take your fluffy
apart, how are you, you know, are you, have you
got a plan beforehand?
And I'm not here to talk from a dog's trainer's
perspective, but, you know, do you have a plan?
What, what you going to do?
If, if fluffy gets attacked, what's the
right thing to do.
So, you know, again, that can be as traumatic
as, that can be probably to some people,
even more traumatic than them getting
attack themselves so.
You know, the difficult part I had when kind of
formulating my thoughts on all of this is that
almost everything that we talk about can also go
into the, before podcasts and trying to separate
the during and the after, because all of the points
that we talk about in during are something that
you should be mentally prepared for before.
Right.
And things that happen after you should have a
plan, beforehand, of how you would deal with these
things in the aftermath, because there's, there's
a lot to the, after.
Yes.
And I mean, we are, you know, in the
during, this is the execution of the plan.
Now the, you know, at this point we
have recognized that there is potential.
It's a, and we're not looking for it to happen,
we just are recognizing that it could.
Uh, this is not this, when it will
happen, this, it could happen and are you
ready when it could?
So planning, we've recognized that
it could happen.
We've recognized that we're going to take steps
uh, once we recognize a situation has changed,
that no longer are we, you know, in our day to
day, we're moving from code yellow to code
orange, we see, you know, there's potential
for something to change.
And now, it's gone off, the, off, it's it's it's
now imminent, imminent, real, and a direct
threat to yourself, your family, your dog, uh,
whatever the case may be.
Right.
And how are you going to go into that?
So red is go.
Red is absolutely go.
When you find yourself going, there's no
getting out of this at this point, I've got a
flee, uh, and like, not just walk away, flea,
not cross the street.
As we talked about in code orange, this
is as fast as your legs can move you.
Uh, you must get out of the attack zone, uh,
the threat zone that's, that's there and, and
menacing, you know, your potential wellbeing.
And that means all the things that
you thought about.
As you were in code orange, looking for
your escape route, you're now execute.
So over that planter, uh, around the car, behind
the car to get out of, you know, some ballistic
protection, if it's, if it's a firearm situation
to get physical distance.
If it's a blade, uh, to, you know, to avoid
that, get out of physical reach, um, start calling
for help as well is another part of that.
You know, plan that you've had before
all of these things.
And done without emotion, like, oh, this
will be embarrassing if I start yelling
for help, forget that.
It's, it's now to the point where you're going
to yell for help, you're going to scream at
the top of your lungs.
You're going to make the biggest scene you can,
you know, if somebody's physically trying to
take your wallet to, to molest you, to,
you know, pull your child out of your arms.
To hurt you, to do damage to.
Yes!
You or harm you and the ones you love.
You've got to completely, uh, eliminate your
ego about ohh, what will people think
of me if I do that?
Well, that part has, has, has left, uh,
that scenario you are now in it for good.
I've heard that one a lot from people coming
back as being a barrier to acting properly,
was the fact that they were embarrassed of
looking foolish or not doing the right thing.
And that led to inaction.
Absolutely.
And I, I have seen that not a lot, but I have
seen that, uh, in uniform police officers, on duty
police officers, where they are not acting to
the full, you know, uh, efficiency at that moment
because of what are other people going to think?
And they've got all the eyes on them.
That's right.
And they've got all the after repercussions
as well, looming in their head.
Which is maybe something we're going to, you know,
in-law, not we, I'm out of it, but those who
are the trainers for law enforcement going to have
to address, is this, you know, reservation as a
result of what appears to be immediate lack of
support for the police.
I still believe that, you know, Jane and, and, uh,
Joel Canadian and, you know, the, the citizens
out there think the cops are doing a good job
and are wholly behind them, but they're just
not voicing that enough for the, for the good
people, law enforcement to realize it.
However, getting back to that, um, when the
moment comes, your ego leaves, you do
everything you can.
Um, we are still heavy emphasis on what our
discussion here is for an armed or an unarmed
civilian in society.
We are not talking armed service personnel, either
military or police.
That's not the purpose of what we're saying here.
So now within physical limitations,
if it's, if it's.
Within your ability to fight off the
situation, then you do it and you fight with
such determination and drive that whatever
the situation is, you fight till it stops.
Now, legally you've, you've thought about that
beforehand, because you can use as much force as
is necessary to stop that assault, but no more.
No more.
That's a bit of a tightrope isn't it.
Right, and, and when we think about this is,
you know, the desire, once your attacker is
down to start laying the boots to them, this is
what separates us from those kinds of people.
Honestly, uh, when the person is down and the
situation is ended, maybe now just withdraw and,
you know, and, and get away from them, you know,
you've, you've, you've stopped that assault.
That's, that's another thing, but that,
that desire to think you should sit there
and make them pay, that's not up to you.
That's, you know, in, uh, in our society.
However, society completely allows
you to stop something that's happening to you.
So you've, you've actually touched on a
whole bunch of points in just that short
little bit of time.
Uh, I think anybody who's going to find
themselves in this situation should be
completely prepared for the adrenal dump and the
physiological effects and the psychophysiological
effects of that adrenal dump.
Of feeling like they're operating in slow motion
of not being able to articulate their thoughts
well, or to really think as well as they normally
would in an, in their pre training situation.
Yes.
So the, the physical, or the physiological effects
of visual narrowing, auditory exclusion, uh,
the adrenaline dump of, you know, near superhuman
strength that you never thought you had, those
are all good things, like even, you know,
you're so scared you, you wet your pants, but
you gotta think now, well, I don't have to
worry about that anymore.
That's over, you know, that that's the, the,
the ego side, but, you know, I try not
to make light of it.
You know.
Nobody wants to fight the person who just crapped
themselves, right?
That's, that is, that's or throw up, boy,
I'll tell you there's, you know, a lot to be
said, if, if you feel physically ill and can
throw up, that might stop somebody wanting
to hang onto you or touch you, you know,
that, that revulsion that they would find.
It, it sounds funny and it's not something a
lot of people thought about, but that's it.
If that's, if that's your, uh, you know,
the, the arrow that you have in the quiver
at that time, draw that arrow in fire it,
you know, it's there.
If you've been fortunate to have maybe taken some
form of, of martial art or you're just good with
your hands and you think that you can overpower
your attacker, man, this is the time to do it and
do it with efficiency.
No, no half measures.
A punch to stop the assault, not a punch just
for the sake of a punch.
And that's, that's another thing I've
seen a lot of in my experience is, not
hitting hard enough.
You know, when, when it goes to trial later and,
and you're concerned about, you know,
explaining yourself, cause you're what we
would call a nice person, a normal person, property
raised, good parents.
You don't want to look at the judge and say,
yeah, you know, I, I had him, your honor.
And of course the defense says, well, how
hard did you hit him?
Well I didn't want to hit him too hard.
No, the answer is, I hit him as hard as I could
at that moment to try and stop the assault.
And, and again, don't let your ego hold you back.
It's the point though, where you recognize
that you've stopped it, that you have to
break yourself away.
So when we talk about getting in a physical
altercation, I've always found space
or distance is your friend in all of this.
And it's all about either increasing that distance,
you got reactionary gaps, so you can start to make
some better decisions because of threats a
little bit further away.
Or decreasing that reactionary gap.
If you've made that decision to go hands-on
because a lot of times, if someone's going to
be trying to hurt you and they're using their
hands, or they're using a weapon, decreasing
that distance will put you in a safer zone.
For example, a baseball bat, there is a very
dangerous area of someone's swinging
a baseball bat and that's going to be at
the tip of that bat.
If you can get far enough away that the bat
doesn't hit you at all.
Perfect.
If you can't get in tight, get in close, get
hands on and do whatever you have pre-conditioned
yourself to, to try and stop that threat.
And if that just means grabbing onto the
person and holding them until other people can
come in and help you.
Then that's, that's what you do.
And the other thing that you brought up
Paul, which I think is of huge importance was
what, in the policing world, they called
tactical communication.
Use your voice.
If that means yelling and screaming and just
to get eyes on you.
Great.
But if you can use that time to articulate
something such as go away, leave me alone.
Don't touch me.
You're not, if someone's pretending that let's
say you're a female and someone's pretending
that you're their husband or boyfriend,
you're not my husband, you're not my boyfriend.
Get, make it clear to everybody else around
what's happening, because you're doing two things.
You're hoping to get a desired effect out
of the individual and maybe they'll comply and
you've, you could use your voice in order to
prevent having to use physical harm, but you're
also creating witnesses.
Yes.
And, and what you're saying there too is, we
are talking to the people out there and we're
saying, you're going to recognize that this stuff
could happen, you're going to have a plan.
You're going to be ahead of yourself
because you've thought about that.
But you yelling, you're not my husband.
You're not, I don't know you, this man does,
this has, help me, help me, is going to maybe
draw somebody else in that's thinking, oh
my God, this is real, what I'm seeing here.
Right.
And maybe that's going to cause them to react.
In society, they're sheep, there's wolves
and there's sheepdogs.
And this is just the way it is.
Not every sheep dog wears a uniform.
Not every sheep dog has had training.
Sheepdog is inside, it's in your heart.
And there are people that, you know, it
doesn't take much and suddenly that inner
sheepdog comes up.
A mother and her child, is one of those things.
That, again, I see, man, you threaten a child
around that child's mother and there's a
woman who's not formally trained in everything.
That's a person who can go into code
red quite easily.
And for, you know, without any formal
training, really take care of business at that
time, do the right thing.
We talk, at length about exiting the situation,
you know, plan of escape, but you know what, there
are just some people that are, aren't going to do
that they are sheepdog.
They're going to take care of other
people, people they don't even know.
You know, we often have words for them like
heroes, you know, like that person was a hero.
That was a person that has that inner
sheepdog, and it, and it gets out in that
moment and they, they, you know, bless them.
They put their, their, others ahead
of themselves in the moment and that's
going to happen.
Not, you know, not everybody is going to
run away, but if it comes down to it, if
it's you or somebody else, you gotta pick
you and your family.
Right.
You gotta.
Right.
You know, that's the most important thing.
And, uh, but again, make it real, get
rid of that ego.
Absolutely anything you think that, that,
uh, you can, you can offer up that will make
other people realize that they need to
get involved in that?
You know.
One thing that I, I find often is that people
will mentally prepare, they will physically
condition themselves.
They'll make sure they've got the cardiovascular
strength to be able to go a few rounds of
somebody and come out on top because quite often
fights are just won by the person with the best
cardio, not necessarily the most technique or
the strongest individual.
But in that whole quiver of arrows that they have,
uh, they should always be keeping in mind, is
there a possible way to deescalate the situation,
but they shouldn't hold that so close
that all they're trying to do is deescalate.
It's a, there is a fine line between training
a person to be a sheep and training them to
be a sheepdog, or just training that person
to be a wolf , because you can, you can give
so much information out there that everyone just
leaves and they're just ready for the fight and
they're ready for the next thing that happens.
So looking to deescalate, but not having that
as the hindering block to, uh, to actually
having some action.
And in a lot of cases, hopefully the
deescalation occurred in code orange.
The deescalation was by taking opportunity away.
And at that point actually creating
sufficient physical distance or a barrier,
uh, that stopped that initial attack.
But now we're talking the attack is on
and I totally agree.
You get some distance we'll give you time.
Time will give you the chance to think, but
it can work against you in giving your
adversary time now to think, and they can re
um, renew their assault with a little bit more
planning on their part.
Remember, everybody's suffering this
extreme, emotional, um, effected at that
time, the attacker, the, the victim or the
person being attacked.
It, it, it is all there, right?
You can, you know, ever watch a little
dog that gets attacked by a much bigger dog.
And the, the bigger dog comes in, recognizes
that, you know, it's, it's got that, you know,
superior strength and size and everything else.
But the little dog goes absolutely bizerk.
He bears his teeth, he opens his eyes,
his eyes roll back and he doesn't run away.
He just keeps screaming.
And it's, you know, the sounds that come out of
that little dog or like, you know, and you watch
the big dog go that was not what I expected.
And that is who you got to beat.
You got to not be what they expected.
The wolf expects you to just, you know,
once they're grabbed to maybe offer some,
you know, ineffective resistance and that's it.
We're not here to train people, you know, in
physical defense, you know, or, or techniques
or anything else.
Right.
But even though you've never thought about it
before, never got, you know, hands-on with
another person, you got to remember the
eyes of your attacker.
If you don't have distance and you are
close, you gotta, as you're screaming, think
about, oh man, the screaming is not making
this person let go.
It's not slowing the attack.
You might now have to get physical.
And the simplest thing, if your hands are free
and your thumb with its two solid joints is to
make that thumb straight, lay the flat of your hand
against the side of a person's head and push
your thumbs as far into their eyes, as you can.
And as much as you know, people can take steroids
and lift weights.
Uh, we don't see too many people except
real showman that are lifting weights
with their eyelids.
You can force your thumb through that eyelid.
You can get in there and that threat or
that attack to the eye, hopefully can give you
some time, get some distance, distance
and time they're interrelated, you know.
And it's not like on TV, it's not like, thumb goes
in the eye, eyes done.
It's out.
I've had my thumb about halfway into a person's
eye before thinking, for sure this person is going
to be blind afterwards.
And nope.
When the thumb came out and the person got off
it, and that, that gets a person out of your
face pretty damn quick.
Yeah.
Uh, he had a cut under his eye and his eye went
right back into place.
But it's a very unpleasant
feeling I'm sure.
At the moment.
From the way that that individual reacted.
Yeah.
And we all can relate to the, you know, the
bang on the tip of the nose and, you know,
a flat palm driven into the tip of the
nose and just start turning that cartilage
round and round.
And I mean, it does absolutely nothing to
somebody who's a, you know, a serious fighter.
Who's had their nose broken lots of times, but
the average person, if, you know, particularly
if it's a, it, if it is a true coward, that's
there to, uh, attack a smaller person.
They probably have not and that might be enough
to distract them as well.
But the triangle between the eyes and the tip
of the nose, if your hands are free, you
know, and that's the best we can offer up
on this, you know, this podcast, right?
The rest of it can be followed up by a
host of individuals that are out there.
And maybe just think, what's not
allowed in the UFC.
And maybe there's a reason why.
Or, yeah, that's right.
Any.
Grabbin' the hair, if the person has hair.
Yep.
I've broken fingers on hair before from, from
being in an altercation, but it's really difficult
to keep a head up and for a person, typically
they don't have much muscle in their neck
and you can really control an individual
through doing the things that they tell you
not to do in organized professional events.
Biting, yeah.
That's cheating.
Yeah.
Well, there's no cheating in code red.
And that's it.
There's no rules in code red, except when
you've stopped the attack on you, you
must then withdraw.
You must, not withdraw, but you cannot continue
to, you know, to finish somebody off.
It's it's just that, is that's the only
rule we have here.
Tell me this, Paul, quite often people
say, well, you got to meet force with force.
What do you think about that?
Equal force.
If someone.
No.
The, your force must multiply you, you
know, you've got to hit twice as hard for it.
That's the only way to go over it.
I mean, in law enforcement, um, the
need to control an individual is, is, is,
you know, addressed in the gymnasium in,
you know, or the, the dojo if somebody is
taking formal martial arts and what it takes
in a traditional sense to disable or overcome
somebody is shocking.
Like when people think, oh yeah, you know, in the
gym and you have a big padded stick and you say,
all right, we're going to strike him on the thigh.
And that's going to cause the thigh to buckle
and away it goes, is great, until you finally
figure out that this stuff, you gotta hit way
harder than you ever got hit or hit somebody in
training for it to work.
And that's, again, that ego thing, you got a
really, you know, it's no, unless you have
that training, you know, you've, you've
got to hit way harder than you expected.
You've got to push yourself to your absolute
limits until it stops.
And don't be afraid.
And that's where the trading sometimes
falls apart.
When people are training in a martial
art, that's an art and it's great, and it's
great for mental and physical conditioning.
But when they continually train, I hit you here,
you go down, we do this.
You hit me here, or I punch, you block and
you start getting this training mindset of,
well, when I throw my punch, I'm not throwing
to connect because he's got, my opponents, got
a practice their block.
You can really ingrain some negative effects
from this training, that whole mental
detachment and.
You've said it so many times now, absolute
ruthless aggression, being able to take
their mind and say, I'm not stopping
until this is over.
Right.
And that, that is really, uh, difficult
thing to, you know, to invoke, cause
it's not an emotion, it's just, it's raw.
It is completely raw.
It's taking how you've trained, what
you know, what you have in your skillset
and utilizing it.
Okay.
Um, and I'm totally trying to avoid, you
know, firearms in this whole thing.
They're like, that's.
Well, that's your background, you're a
firearms instructor, so it's easy to go to that.
And I want to take out, you know, the use of
a blade in response to an attack, you know,
that's, those are all things that, uh, we
can't advocate here.
You, you can't tell somebody that that is
the right thing to do because we're, you know,
this is Canadian law.
This is it.
You, you are allowed a weapon of opportunity
by all means.
So somebody is attacking you with a baseball
bat and they drop the baseball bat.
And they're ready to take you on a, with
their fists or feet or whatever it is.
Do you now secure the baseball bat?
You got to think, well, that's a weapon
of opportunity, I'm still subjected to
this person's attack.
That's a different thing.
And, and again, in the moment you use
that effectively.
So everything really, as you go through your
day-to-day life, you can look around, everything's
a weapon of opportunity.
Your laptop is pretty expensive, but it's
not worth your life.
That's right.
And it would probably hurt pretty hard if I
folded it up and whacked the person with it.
Or the corner of the laptops straight
into the face, right.
You know, again, in that triangle, around the
nose, you know, under the, the, the septum,
you know, those types, they, man, that stuff, it
hurts and it distracts, it may not disable or
incapacitate, but it'll give you a bit of space.
It's, you know, people recoil from
those kinds of things and it's unexpected.
Your pint glass.
Your pencil.
Your pencil, your salt shaker rolled up
in a napkin, right, at the dinner table.
But when you're walking to your car, like
everybody's got automatic unlock on their car.
So they got a fob.
So now we're, we're out of luck, but the old, you
know, huge ring of keys and, you know, I always,
you know, in the dark carried my keys through
my fingers, you know.
Sure.
For a cheap pair of, of a brass knuckles, but
you know, it's there.
Um, one of the things always is, you watch
people when they're getting into drunk fights
and they tend to start pulling their shirt off.
So now there you are in the bar having your
nice dinner and some guys now taken offense
to you and you know, you've, you've done what
you can to deescalate.
He's, he's drunk and he's pushing at you.
And, and you're trying to get out of there.
And of course now the crowd comes around and
here's your weapon of opportunity is when he
gets that shirt over his head, that's it.
Jersey him.
Yeah.
Jersey him.
That's , happens every day when you know, we're
watching pro hockey in the old, well, I guess
more so in the old days, but that something you
got to think about, you've got to have it
in there and use it.
Who cares?
There's no rules.
There's nobody coming running in with a black
and white shirt that's going to say, wait, you
shouldn't have done that.
And if you're having a hard time thinking,
hold on, am I in condition orange, or
am I in condition red?
What you just pointed out there is a very
common indicator and there's lots of them,
that the fight is on.
You might not be aware of the fights on,
but if someone starts taking off articles of
clothing, it's a very, very common precursor
to wanting to fight.
Time to fight.
Right.
Or maybe they keep looking at, you have a
pint glass in your hand, you're holding it and
they keep looking at it and they're looking at it
because they view that as a possible weapon that'll
you be used against them when the fights on.
What they're looking at, how their
body position is.
Again, like I say, Allan Pease has got
some good books on basic body language.
But they're clenched jaw, clenched fists, uh, how
they're looking at you, all of these things,
you don't even have to rationally be able to
articulate, well I read this book, or I heard
about it on a podcast.
I I'm willing to bet, you know.
And you will know when it's happening, if you
just trust your gut.
Right.
Yeah.
Doesn't lie the hair on the back of your
neck, not lying.
Right.
You know, that's, that's, that's
telling you the truth.
Don't ignore it.
Never, ever exhort, you know, and I guess we kind
of talked about it, but you know, the difference
between men and women and what feelings they
have, but if you feel it, it's probably real.
Right.
Well, it is real.
It is real and it's real to you .And whether or
not history will look back and look at it as
the real event, as long as you have downloaded
the proper responses, you can square yourself with
it, hopefully afterwards.
And that was one of the things that you
brought up before.
And then we talked about you're number one, you
protect yourself because if you can't protect
yourself, you can't protect your family,
your friends, your loved ones around you.
And you go in that process, how you do
that is going to have to be something that
you can feel good about afterwards, because
all of this mental preparation and the
during preparation will lead into the
next podcast as well.
Right.
And you know, it's just funny.
Um, An unconscious sheepdog doesn't help any
of the sheep, you know, and if the sheep happened
to be your family, I like that, you know,
we got to go stay with, and you gotta remember
that, uh, the wolves are looking for easy prey.
Right.
And you don't see the wolves going after
that you know, the Akbash herd dog out
there in amongst, we don't have to be sheep.
We could actually have alpacas or
something like that.
But, you know, whatever the herd of domestic,
you know, critters are there is that, that sharp
set of ears, you know, that look of alertness
and the wolf is not going for that sheepdog.
And, you know, it's, it's, it's fascinating
to, uh, you know, to, to really put yourself
into that position.
I mean, I'm going to just, you know, talk
a little bit about being in things.
Um, I've had, you could say the, the good
fortune for being able to talk about it now,
but the misfortune of it happening in the moment.
Um, literally, uh, to full-scale urban riots
and being on the pointy end of the stick for
those, well the first one most especially,
back, you know, when, uh, you know, we always
called a game, anyways, we won't talk about that
because that'll be wrong.
But, um, watching things happen literally
in slow motion.
Literally.
And they aren't, they're happening in real time,
but you are in such an elevated state through,
you know, the adrenaline dump and everything else.
You go into this hyper, um, observant state where
things seem to slow down.
You're looking, you know, with, with visual
narrowing, you're looking into a tube, all the
other things around you really aren't important,
but seeing that person that's throwing a
bottle directly at you, throwing a brick at you,
sometimes that tunnel vision changes, and you
can see, you know, with stuff going towards your,
your, your teammates at the moment and, and
seeing that's strange.
In the middle of a full-blown riot, the
one thing that will take you away from your
normal day to day is the sheer amount of noise,
explosions of the gas grenades going off, the
yelling, the screaming, the breaking of glass.
Uh, the sound, fire is very quiet funny
enough, but you can hear fire, you can
hear the crackling of stuff burning, but
it's not very loud.
So in amongst all of these incredibly loud
things, you're hearing the subtleties, you
hear the sound of, you know, um, a bottle
being broken, which is not in itself very
loud, but then you, you know, you're turning
yourself, uh, to those, those unusual sounds.
Voices, hearing people in the crowd actually
discussing what they're about to do to somebody
in the riot squad that we are with, we call
them, uh, you know, all sorts of nice things,
that was a riot squad in the, in the, you know,
um, public order unit.
Like they're actually talking about that
and you can, your auditory exclusion
takes you into their conversation and that's
happening 10, 15 feet away amongst the den.
I recall listening to the boss on a cell phone, in
the middle of the riot, we're holding the line.
He's probably standing 15, 20 feet away from me.
And he's talking to, you know, the commander
in the, in the, in the center, you know,
who's making all the direction and I can
hear their conversation.
I can hear the voice on the cell phone, not
just him talking, just thinking, you know,
taking myself back.
Thinking this is, you know, not really
pay attention into the moment, but
afterwards, to be able to articulate the
words that were there.
And, and until it happens to you, you
can't believe it.
And for somebody who's never been in
that before, that's gotta be disorienting.
So to have a little bit of an idea of what to
possibly expect in these situations can give a
little bit of comfort.
And, and that's why you got to listen to
somebody who's been there when they say the
stuff's going to happen.
Don't freak out.
It's good, it's your body uh, you know, getting
you ready for that.
You know, this is how many million years of
evolution, you know, has changed so many things
in the way we live, but that primal ability
of fight or flight.
And we keep emphasizing, it's all about flight.
All these physical occurrences that are
happening and their real, they are real, are
there to help you get out of the situation.
One of the things you may not necessarily feel,
uh, in the moment is the adrenaline is now pumping
you full of strength that you never had before.
And that's good.
You'll be able to run faster, jump higher,
swim longer, punch harder, all these things,
but they will happen.
Shockingly is when you, you know, hey,
the critical incident you look over and
there's a kid trapped underneath of a car.
There's just been a collision.
And that car's on top of a kid and everybody's
pulling the kid and they can't get them out.
And suddenly somebody emerges from the crowd
and they lift the car up for everybody
else to pull through.
And we hear that all the time, 80 year old
woman lifts car off, you know, husband in
garage when jack fails.
This type of stuff, but people get the benefit of
however many years that we've had this as, uh, an
instinctual response, you know, the adrenaline dump
and all the other things.
And don't be afraid, use them, use
them effectively.
So we talked about the one plus one
rule, the rule of one plus one before, if
there's one bad guy, there's probably two.
If there's one person talking to you on the
street that you don't know, there might be
a reason why, there might be a second person
they're working with.
But in a fight, don't think that this is
just the one aggressor.
You could have an innocent person who's
just happened to be walking by passively
acquiescing, minding their own business, and
they see this fight and progress, and they look
at you as the aggressor and all of a sudden
now it's you against more than one person.
And I don't care how many Steven Seagal movies
a person has watched.
When you start having a physical altercation
with more than one individual, it gets
tough really quick.
We're now in code red, maybe we're with,
uh, our spouse, our kids, or someone else.
Now that person needs to be your
ally in that moment.
If you're in that confrontation and you're
down on the ground and you say somebody
else comes along.
Now there's wolves that are just going to
come along and they see something happening and
their pack mentality forces them to just
start kicking the people that are on the
ground and see that lots, lots, and lots.
People are totally un-involved in whatever,
you know, sparked the incidents, but they'll
come out of the crowd because they always,
you know, wanting to kick somebody, you know,
cause they've seen it on TV and that stuff.
So yes, you gotta be wary of that, but you
know, your, your backup may not be in the form
of a physical backup, but again, clarifying
to the crowd, help him, help him, help
the guy in the red shirt, he got attacked
by the other guy.
Right.
Or something to that effect.
Everybody needs to know they got to
all work together.
It's no good if they go into that lockup
phase and just stand and stare at you get in
getting it, you know, so to speak, everybody's
gotta be together.
And that was always a big part of the
self-defense system that I would teach my kids.
The big one is you're not my mom,
you're not my dad.
Right.
If someone's trying to hurt them or take them or
do something, make it be known to everybody else
around what's going on.
But as well, they're not in a position to be able
to physically help in the way that I'm sure they
would want to, but they can sure use their voices
to be able to help.
And having that game plan ahead of time
with your family or with your friends.
That's a very important conversation.
Yeah.
That, that plan that you've had with your
kids saying the only people that will ever
come and pick you up from school will be somebody
that you've met before.
And even saying that as a problem, because
we know that it could.
Statistically.
You know, but you got to start with that and
you say, is it okay if grandpa picks you up?
Yes.
Is it okay if grandma, uncle Joe, you know, and
we are trusting uncle Joe, mom, dad, sister,
brother, whatever, if it's not one of those
people, you don't go.
The only people that you would go
with are the police.
And again, making the kids understand.
Now we're kind of going off into the stranger
danger thing, you know, suddenly it's not one
of those people that you've preauthorized.
The kid needs to start letting it out.
You're not physically capable, but you've got
a voice and use it and don't go and don't go and
don't go, no matter what.
There's no such thing as a, as a person that
wants you to help them find something, you know,
the classic, you know, I'm here looking for my
dog, can you help me?
You know, or, or any of those, kids
are just nice.
You know, they've been properly, brought up.
Kid can still be polite and start screaming his
head off a second later.
So fights on, we know absolute aggression.
You think of Malone from the untouchables.
What did he say?
He says, uh, see if I can do it.
If he pulls a knife, you pull a gun.
If he sends one of yours to the hospital, you send
one of his to the morgue.
Yeah.
Something like that.
But, but essentially what you don't want
to do is someone's attacking with force,
you meet that force.
You have to go one.
Overcome the force.
One step up and keep that force until the
thread has stopped.
Um, do we want to talk about Jared's story?
Well, just, uh, you know, and I, I'm just
going to take us back here again, though.
We keep talking about the use of force at
this point, but let's talk about, we had
the escape option.
We don't run so far and then turn around
and try and start taking pictures of it
or turn back to look to see what we'd done.
We run so we know that we are in a position
of true safety, like secure behind
something that's not penetrable or whatever
we're in our car.
Somebody wants to get into our car.
There's no reason in the world for somebody
to come out of the blue and start pulling
on your door handle that's going to be good.
Now, if it's clearly evident that that's
somebody who's going to be a victim themselves,
can you get them in and get them out of there?
Without the suspect or the, you know, the,
the attacker getting in with them, you know,
that's a consideration.
So your emotion is one thing, oh, I want
to help this person.
But the reality, there's not going to be better
if I drive my car away a little bit and get
on the phone and come back with, you know,
the ability to deal with it on your terms.
And that just comes down to, from teaching
a survival mindset.
There is only one person and that's you.
Yeah.
That's not always going to be the right thing
with yourself afterwards.
And people have such a difficult
time accepting that.
And, and, you know, they say, oh, that's
like, you know, this is the degradation of
human society if that's all you're thinking of.
And, and that's what we become that we're
telling people to abandon everybody else.
But again, if you can't continue on.
I remember in my early twenties, when I got
a license to carry in the states your CCW and
few different states of reciprocity and, uh,
Marty Hayes, Firearms Academy in Seattle did
some training there with him and did some basic
scenario training as a part of the CCW course.
And one of the big things that they really want
to get across is that firearm is not there
for you to be a hero.
You're not a cop because you have a firearm on,
you're not there to help the cops cause
you have that firearm.
You're there, that firearms air for one
reason only, and that's to protect you and your
loved ones and that's it.
And you forget all the rest.
And that was a really difficult thing to think
about especially as a young male testosterone,
wanting to help people all the rest.
Really, when it comes down to a survival
situation, you're there to protect yourself,
cause you might not have all of the information
required to make proper decisions, to interject
yourself into the, into some, some other
sort of situation.
And I remember that was one of the scenarios.
A couple of people arguing, someone
pulls a gun out and what do you do?
Do you interject?
No, you take off, the guy with the gun was actually
a cop undercover right?
And so when people start making these judgment
calls of how, how could you just do that?
Really, from a survival situation, that is where
your head should be.
Yeah.
And that's true, you know, you hear
repeatedly, oh, you know, if there had been
somebody with a gun there, probably would
have ended the whole thing, but you know,
that, that's where this, this idea having
an armed society and all of the ability to
they, you know, to carry a concealed firearm,
everybody has sort of a, an armchair idea of how
this is going to work.
And it's not that way at all.
It is that, it's that deep down personal thing,
you know, it's just you and the attacker in the
moment, yours is not to, as a, as an armed citizen
to come in, until you can clearly recognize it.
But the fact that you come running down the
street, withdrawn gun, might be the worst
thing in the world, thinking that you're
going to end somebody else's situation.
You have to read it.
When you're in your own, different thing.
And the same goes for people who carry
a utility knife or who happened to have
dog spray on them, or who've taken that napkin
and put salt shaker in there and using.
Not a paper napkin.
It as a weapon.
Not a paper napkin.
Not a paper napkin, but the same thing
applies to all of these.
Yeah.
And, and like I say, you know, arming yourself
ahead of time, um, is also arming the person
that attacks you.
You know, so if you are going to, uh, put
a knife on your belt or put a knife in your
pocket, you know that, uh, in the moment,
if somebody gets your knife, now you need to
recognize and fight that.
I think there's a misconception, when
people think about knives, they think,
oh yeah, I caught this knife and I can use
it for self-defense.
You're going to kill the person you stab,
you should probably resign yourself to that.
If you use a knife for self protection,
the likelihood of doing serious grievous
bodily harm or death is pretty high.
It doesn't take much for a blade to
penetrate in order to do serious damage.
And likewise, I don't care how many movies
they've seen of disarming a person with a knife
and you touch on this before we used to do
it with felt markers.
Okay, let's try disarm, guaranteed,
and that's just the tip of the marker.
You're walking out with ink on yourself.
You have to resign yourself.
If somebody does have an edged weapon, you
are going to get cut and you're going to
have to be able to fight through that.
Yes.
Again, you know, completely eliminating
your emotions, your ego at the time, if you
look down and you're bleeding, means nothing.
You, you know, as long as you, you still got
the energy to fight, you got to keep fighting.
Cuts, don't kill you fast.
Um, you know, and that's kind of a fortunate
thing, unless somebody is highly trained and knows,
you know, how to use the proper link to blade in
the correct technique.
In most cases, you know, we see a lot of, um,
stabbing, if you can get always get lucky and hit
something, but you know, it's be shocking and
it's a big help if you've ever seen in an animal
that's being butchered, how much space is in
and around some of the organs and you know how
that, uh, doesn't become an immediate way to go.
Okay.
But the big thing you carry a weapon, you
know, a knife, you, uh, you brought something to
the situation and, and, and you bring a gun, you
brought something to the situation, which you know
that your attacker may not have had that before.
And if you're not, you know, physically capable
of keeping that in your possession, that's not
going to be a help.
So Jared, Range Langley, 2017 he says.
And Jared, if I'm telling the story and I get it
wrong, I'm sure you'll let me know, but I
did take notes and I'm going to try and get
the information across cause I think, I think
you had some good points here that the listeners
would appreciate.
He says, Travis, if you think there would
be some value in the listeners in this story
of hearing the situation that I went through.
So background on Jared, he'd say range officer
at The Range Langley, he's accustomed to
being around firearms and hearing gunshots.
He spent some time down in LA, he says he's
heard gunshots in an urban environment, kind
of knows what that's about and he spent a
fair bit of time offering like physical security
services for nightclubs in the form of a bouncer.
And so he's, he's got a, uh, uh, some
situational awareness and physical conditioning
he's on a date.
I think it was 2017 browns social pub.
And in the evening, I guess a waitress drops
a highball glass, hits the ground flat makes
a big bang nose, every, nose, big bang noise,
and everybody looks around and yells OPA
and they clean it up.
And there we go.
Uh, later on in the evening they hear a
similar bang and this time it was a round going
through the glass and followed up by some more
rounds going through and immediately he.
And more people yelling OPA.
Yeah, he did.
I don't think he said, they said OPA at this
point, but the first thing that came into
his head and I think most other peoples there
was, Jared, I'm not trying to speak on your
behalf, but I'm trying to recollect what you say.
First thing that came into his head was is
this another high ball glass hitting the ground?
Because it's not normal that you're going to
have gunshots coming into the restaurant where
you're, you're eating in.
Well, by the second round, people knew
what was going on pretty quickly.
And he was under the table with his
girlfriend and, or the girl that he was on
a date with anyways.
And she was freaking out.
And apparently most of his energy was
into, went into trying to keep her calm.
Uh, he looked for exits and he saw one and there
was one out by the patio, problem was there was a
fellow doing backflips.
Cause I guess he had been hit, right by
there trying to get in and he yells out,
don't let him in.
They want him, not us, right.
He says right or wrong, whatever people judge
that right or wrong, he says, but why do
we want to invite that danger inside here?
He says, he looked and he gets to see these
people, but they're dressed all in black.
Uh, and that's about the most he got out of it.
He says the adrenal fog kicked in, the adrenal
dump right off the bat.
But then the adrenal fog, trying to, uh, think
things through, I, I guess the, let me just
take a look, make sure I'm not missing anything.
Here are the notes.
So his exit was blocked.
He says afterwards, if I was really thinking
about it, places have more than one exit.
I could have gone through the kitchen and no one
going to think twice about someone going
through a kitchen in this sort of a situation.
He says afterwards, I kind of wish I spoke
with other people that were around me.
Like, hey, do you know what's going on?
Hey, do you have a plan?
Sort of like coordinate the other
people in there.
He says he didn't do that, but this is a
benefit of hindsight.
Uh, he says he had to stick around for about
four hours while the police came in and they
took some statements about what happened.
And they were asking, what are the
people look like?
He says, I don't know, it was all in black.
It's all I saw, but it sounded like there was a
semi-auto and a revolver.
And it sounded like this many shots were fired
because of his background of working in the
range, that's where his mind immediately went.
And those are things though, that, as
we talked about beforehand, is what
has been downloaded to your subconscious.
So that's there.
That, that ability to recognize those
things, is there.
Back to you, sorry.
Mhmm.
He, and part of this will go into the after
as well, uh, which we can we'll delve in
further, but he says, uh, everybody wants to hear
the story afterwards.
Everybody wants to talk about it afterwards.
And there was anger involved.
He was angry at the laws that he couldn't carry
a firearm or angry at the body armor laws, or
that he couldn't protect himself in a way that he
figured that he should.
Um, and these are all things that a
person would have to square themselves
with, for the after.
And we'll talk about that in greater detail, but
it was an interesting story and I didn't do it
justice, Jared, I know because we spoke for some
time on this one and he had a lot more details.
But his survival mindset was right.
Uh, afterwards squaring yourself with, I
guess, one of the, uh, uh, women in the
patio opened the door and allow this person
to come in bleeding all over the place.
I believe that was the individual ended
up, uh, passing.
Um, yes, survival mindset was right.
But I think afterwards, some people might have
a hard time with that too, like, me over them.
Well, yeah.
And that's the part, again, that we keep
going back to is, you know, it's you, and
afterwards you can imagine that other people
say, you know, there was some guy yelling,
don't let him in.
Can you believe that, that's the
degradation of society.
We're all finished as a, as a human race,
but you know what, unfortunately, it's the
right thing to do in those kind of moments.
That person is not your kin, that person is not,
you know, in your team, I'm talking, you know,
if it was a battlefield situation and that was
a member of your squad, a hundred percent he's
coming in and we're going to fight out
there and fight that guy back in, because that's
what we're there to do.
This is you went out for dinner on a
date, that's not what you're there to do.
There is the sheepdog that's going to do it.
And you know, like he said, the woman
that, that let him in, that's, her inner
sheepdog came out.
She just couldn't, couldn't get beyond
not helping a fellow human being and
that's, that's great.
But did you know, she, how much risk did she put
herself at doing that?
That that's the part that we don't know, and
we can armchair forever.
People love to armchair, but I'm just, you
know, that that's the way it goes.
You know, it's funny, you know, just based solely
on what you said um, he talks about looking
up and seeing the exit.
That's you know, sometimes could be
talked about as a bit of tunnel vision because
the activity is there and within the activity of
what you're looking at is the red exit signs.
So back in the subconscious exit, but
in the upfront, in the cognitive level, not a
good choice because that is also the danger area.
That's the, you know, we could use
the term, killzone.
I got a good story for afterwards, which
actually takes us back to this, but we'll, we'll
save that, you know, uh, going ahead, but
you're, you're right.
It's it is, you know, restaurants.
Hey, you know, we just heard here in the
province of British Columbia, if it depends
on where you're living from, we're going to
have our opening today is going to be announced
at one o'clock and you know, going into
a restaurant or a bar, um, it's, you know, you
can, how many years my wife and I have been
together, she understands that she doesn't even
try to sit anywhere that allows me to not keep my
back away from the door.
Um, and it's just, I've done it all my
pretty much adult life.
I can't comfortably sit with my back to the
room unless I'm sitting with somebody I trust.
And if I know that the person that's sitting
with the eyes on the room, I'm good with that.
But if I'm there with anybody else, any non,
um, known entity, I just can't get comfortable.
And, and that's just something I always do.
And I sit down and I look, and I see as I'm
ordering, where's the in, where's the out.
Just happens and it's not a hard way
to live your life.
It really isn't.
It's not, it's not, it's not overbearing,
but we going back to what we talked about
already, but it's there because in the moment
grab a hand, run through the kitchen, just like
Jared said, and it would have been over for him.
It would have been over.
So there's other things that could be
done in the moment in something like that.
Which may or may not be useful for this
situation, but we talked about the mental prep
before of being able to identify a person, look
at their skin color, look at their height, look at
their gender, look at any distinguishing marks that
they have, that would be difficult to change.
Same with vehicle, even though we all
know in these sorts of situations, like Jared's
talking about there's stolen vehicles that
get torched an hour later, but direction
of travel, which way were they heading?
Because when they're under the table,
they called 911 as I'm sure everybody
else was as well.
Uh, the more information that they can gather in
the during, the better off, they will be in
the afterwards as well.
And the more they can articulate and user
tactical communication, their, their voice and
the during in a way that that's properly
pre-programmed, that they they're saying the right
words in the right way.
Hey, drop that weapon.
Everyone looks, they look at the person you're
talking to and they assume that person's
got a weapon right?
Whoops.
They made a mistake, they didn't have a
weapon, they're just being aggressive, but
they still got that information out there.
If they downloaded that information to their
head and they used in that situation, that
could be a useful thing in the after as well.
Um.
Yeah, that's right.
I mean, well, we still talking about the moment
your code red, it's real it's happening, but you
may not be the focus of whatever the, you
know, the, the energies of the attacker is.
But you're still feeling, you know, all of the
other things that come on when, when it's
real and going down.
And trying to keep yourself, um, focused
on the thing to be of some value later is
some consideration.
I just, you know, there's something keeps playing
in my head when gunfire happens, particularly a
handgun, based on four or five rounds, I've trained
people to fire over the years at the range.
What people tend to do, is if they're untrained
with a firearm, is send rounds to the ground.
Mhmm.
And that in, you know, just some consideration,
if you're going to lay flat or stretched across
towards somebody that's out there can put you
in a, a bit of risk at, you know, ricocheted
rounds that, that go low.
So, I mean, if you're far enough away, it's
probably not a bad choice, but stay in
skinny and tall and trying to get behind
something, because again, that's a more difficult
target, particularly at distance, you
know, all concerned.
It just kind of popped into my
head in the moment.
That, those would be some of the things,
you know, based on my, you know, makeup of
experiences might be.
So I would, I would consider distances,
you know, I know how far people can shoot,
when they can hit.
I keep looking at the way people would shoot
in those situations and whether it's aimed
fire or just, you know, point and squeeze or
point and jerk trigger.
It's mostly point and click that I seen.
That's it.
And that can be darn effective at a darn
effective at, at the shorter ranges and we can
see that clearly, right.
Um, but you know, some, some things, you know.
If the person comes in swinging a knife, don't
get down, get around something, get, you
know, get physically, get the bar between
you and that person, get tables between you.
But if you, if you lay down, you've lost your
reactionary time, right.
Cause now, you've got to get up to
move away from them.
Um.
You know, when you talk about rounds hitting the
ground and the ricochet, I remember as a kid,
uh, my father would set up different shotgun
shells, green ones, red ones, blue ones, 12
gauge, 20 gauge, .410, and they'd all be on the
ground at different areas and call out a color.
Red, okay.
Got to bring it out and try a point
shooting or body index shooting or instinctive
shooting, right.
And get the gun out without using the sights.
Squeeze the trigger, shoot the shotgun,
the casing, shotgun shell on the ground.
And it didn't take me long to realize
I, as long as my left and right, my
windage was good.
Uh, my elevation could be dead on or pretty much
anywhere in front of it cause I could skip the
round into that shell.
And so I could speed things up quite quickly.
Maybe I didn't quite get a dead on, but
I was in front of it and skipped in.
So the same thinking applies to walls.
That's right.
Yeah.
The spall coming off of, you know.
Spall and walls.
Like
if you're going to hug a wall going down and
there's gunfire, you just got to shoot anywhere
at you or in front of you on that wall.
And you're probably going to be catching a round.
Yeah.
It is something to really consider, you know,
people lay down under a car, but a shot fired
under the car can also spall off the asphalt or
concrete that's there.
So getting behind a car means, you know, getting
behind the wheel, you know that, so you've
got that protection of the tire, physically
on the ground,and the rim, you know, to
stop any spall or, or indeed any projectiles
going to need.
Those are the things, can you analyze that
quickly in the moment?
No, but if you've thought about it before,
these are the things, this is the plan.
This is the plan that you made.
We're talking code red, we're talking
execution of the plan.
Uh, some other things to consider is, you know, if
whatever you're doing is not working in code red,
like this is not making things better for me.
Oh.
Pivot and adapt.
Right.
Have you have you, in the planning stage
before any of this happened, come up with,
you know, a scenario in your mind, I'm punching
somebody I'm, I'm doing the attack that I'd
always thought I would do in this situation,
it's not working, so what's the secondary?
Those judo chops that I was practicing so much,
man, they just didn't work quite as good.
Yeah.
And you know, the, and the, the, the compliant
partner I had in the gym who would lay down and
scream, you know, this, person's not doing that.
So it's always, you know, plan a, the
simplest plan b uh, when a isn't working.
And boy, if it's plan c, this has gotta be a
really effective thing.
Uh, but it's, it's gonna be, you know, almost at
the point where getting distance becomes the most
important to regroup.
I just, one of the most incredible conversations
I ever had, um, the RCMP years ago, fully
embraced the Gregg method of instinctive shooting.
Um, and some of the older RCMP members
that I know that can tell you about this.
And, and Gregg had developed is the,
what was his last name two G's, a system of
sightless shooting.
Right.
And when he trained you initially, you
would use 22 rifles that had no sights
on them, and you were actually holding them
clearly out of the aim.
And by gosh, you could hit an amazing amount
of stuff as you trained in the Gregg method of
sightless shooting and without getting into it
too much, it was adopted in the RCMP training and
they referred to it as instinctive shooting.
Right.
And it's a word that absolute or a phrase
that absolutely curdles my urine when I heal
or hear people use it.
But I'll just tell you, this is how, if you
think you have a plan and you're trained with
a plan and you're in code red, what to do.
So this RCMP officer, um, long story short,
a robbery occurs.
He sees the robbery suspect, he's in
the police vehicle.
He stops the individual who immediately
exits his vehicle.
He draws his six shot revolver and from the
Gregg method of, and he's basically shooting well
below his line of sight.
He's seeing.
Cause that's how he taught.
That was the Gregg method.
How they're taught.
And it was the sort of a triangle press
out from your body.
And your eyes are up here and the guns down there.
And he's shooting at the bad guy who in turn
is one arm extents and shooting back at him.
And they start aroundy round the police car and
aroundy rounds happening and they're, both of
them are shooting.
He fires his six rounds, he recognizes
that he's unloaded.
He accesses his speed loader, reloads
fabulously, he's got six fresh rounds ready to go.
And he says he couldn't, he doesn't even recall
the reload it went so smoothly, you
know, clean ejection of the spent cases.
And he starts firing that method.
And he goes through his full 18 rounds,
the six in the gun, the 12 off his belt, bad
guy goes through the magazine that he had in
a semiautomatic pistol.
And now it's one of those dead silence because
there's no more gunfire.
Nobody's got ammo.
Neither one of them were hit in this
exchange that, you know, in probably 10
plus rounds fired on the part of the bad guy
from his semiautomatic pistol, 18 rounds fired
from the revolver.
And I said to him, you know, when I got the
opportunity to speak to him, I said, well,
why didn't you just put the sights on him?
No one ever talked about using that.
It was never something that was offered up as
a solution to the bad guy, not falling down.
You will respond exactly as you've trained.
Correct.
To your lowest level of training that you've
been able to perfect, is where you'll respond.
And Peter principle can also come into place.
Correct.
And I will tell you, or, from every single person
that I have trained in uniform, that the most
important thing is to learn to use your sights.
Everything else is just frosting on the cake.
If you need in that last moment to
use your firearm.
So anyways, not that I'm advocating anybody
use a firearm, but that is the understanding.
When you come up with a technique,
the first thing that you practice is the
full-proof side of it.
Right.
And then everything else goes to support it.
So.
Hick's law, not Peter principle Hicks laws.
What I was thinking of and Hick's law
essentially says that the more options that
you have in your head, the more likely you
are to dither between choosing one of them in
a stressful situation.
So if you have that one option, which is,
we use a sights or my one option that I've
really downloaded.
If I have to fight, I fight hard and I
fight aggressively.
I'm not afraid to be dirty and
use hair or eyes.
Um, that can really play to your benefit when that
adrenal fog kicks in.
Correct.
And, oh, let's talk about what happens if you've
planned, it's code red and suddenly you find
yourself completely unable to fight
without emotion or ego.
And all of a sudden, your feet are stuck
to the ground and you realize, wow, all I'm
doing is breathing at, you know, any
highly, um, accelerated rate of respiration.
You know, there's horns honking in my ears.
The lights are flashing and everything else.
Get out of that, that should be another plan.
And that's that, you know, um, autogenic
breathing, just blow your lungs clear.
Well, your lungs clear, empty your lungs,
shake your head just a little bit, slap your
hands on your thighs.
Just get, get some, you know,
physical stimulation there, back in.
Now, you know, those things that maybe
break in that, that fog that's occurred that,
and you use the word mental fibrillation
or tactical dithering.
You know, those, those are the things that
can potentially happen.
And unfortunately I have seen that effect occur
in others, in some very tough situations that
I've had the fortune, good fortune to be a
part of, so I can talk about it later, the
misfortune to be in some pretty, you know, tough
scrapes in the moment.
But you can watch others and yeah, and it's, it's
a thing to, to take that with you as well, but how
do you break out of that?
Autogenic breathing just absolute complete
emptying of your lungs takes, you know, all
of a sudden your, your whole physical being is
now coming back online.
It's almost like a restart and that
could be a huge help.
Um, again, slapping your hands and your thighs,
give your head a little shake, you know, that,
that pinching, some of those things can
just bring . You back.
Interesting.
No guarantees, but you know, having
something, uh, to, to work with on that case.
That's, that's a good point, little, little
physical tips that people can do to kind of
break that psychological block that they're in.
When two things that I've used in the
past, if you're in a stressful situation, a
box breathing where you three seconds in, hold
it for three seconds, three seconds out, hold
it for three seconds, three seconds in, and
just keep repeating that.
And that's one way to help calm
yourself in a suit.
And I mean, even in mountaineering or rock
climbing, and I know you've done a fair bit
of that, there's been situations where you.
That was a long time ago.
Where you've, I know there's been situations
where I've found myself in areas where I'm over
my head and you have, that, you can't stop, you
can't move back and you have to press forward.
And one of the things that I just do, I can,
I can, I can, just some sort of a mantra
that goes through your head and you just do
it and you can achieve some otherwise maybe
seemingly superhuman type things or what other
people would sit back and say, how the hell
does that person do it?
It's because you're a very singular in
your purpose and what you're doing.
And you keep repeating that to yourself as you
work your way through.
Yeah.
And I've always, uh, well, mine is, you
know, get on it, get on it, get on it,
get on it, get on it.
And that's the thing that yells in, in, you know.
Brian, what's your Brian, Brian Calgary police
retired now, but he talks about the wind principle.
Mm.
And what's important now, and I'm not going
to steal his thunder and we'll get his name here
for the next podcast.
And you should listen to him talk and he
continually repeats the mantra, WIN,
what's important now.
Okay.
So now I've put myself in a better position.
I've got distance from the subject,
what's important now?
Do I continue to move away?
Do I now have to rescue somebody else,
what's important now?
And it evolves, it evolves because
you're now taking successional steps,
you've done something, what's important now.
And of course, then in the end you win.
That's a, uh, an adaption of your
OODA loop, observe, orient, decide and act.
Correct.
And everybody's got their thing, I guess, last
name's going to come.
We'll we'll have it for your everybody
here uh, shortly.
Okay.
Do we want to talk about anything else
in the during, or do we want to save the
rest for the after?
I think, uh, get rid of your ego, get
rid of your emotion.
Your purpose is singular it's to make whatever
is that high degree of stress, right there, an
attack or imminent attack or an imminent threat to
your life or wellbeing stop or get away from it.
And, and to do it, you know, as efficiently
as your physicality, uh, your training or
your experience will allow you to do it.
And that's, that's the thing, get rid
of the emotion.
Really.
Don't be afraid.
Uh, not don't be afraid, you're going
to be afraid, take your fear and turn it into
righteous indignation.
That's an important thing for people to understand.
Everybody gets scared.
Totally.
Sure.
It's normal.
You should be scared in that situation, but
take from that fear, the strength and just the
words are how dare, how dare you do this to me?
How dare you do this to that person?
How, how dare you change my life right
now by doing this thing.
And that will give you the, you know, the
ability to continue on.
But, um, no, I distracted myself
from the fear side.
Uh, it'll come back.
Okay.
Okay, Paul, let's wrap this one up.
If the listeners have anything that they
would like to add, well, they might have a
difficult time on this because we're going to
be recording our after right, right now, but
we can definitely post it up on social media.
For sure.
And if the demand is there, I'm happy to make
a synopsis of all of these things and put it
up into blog posts for people to be able to have
some downloadable assets.
Absolutely.
Thank you very much Paul.