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Live Lead Last is a weekly podcast hosted by leadership coach, nonprofit director, and entrepreneur James Duvall. Designed for growth-minded leaders, this show helps you live by design, lead with purpose, and leave a legacy that lasts.
Through honest conversations, practical tools, and real-life stories, James equips leaders to develop strong roots, sustainable influence, and lasting impact — both personally and professionally. Whether you're leading a team, a business, a ministry, or a family, this podcast will help you become the kind of leader others want to follow.
George: [00:00:00] I was like a mouse in a, in one of those mazes that kept trying to find different ways to still operate my life and function in a, in a work sense and relationship sense in a home life while still being able to use and, and it just becomes more and more difficult. So I was like, in this maze, turning left, turning right, trying to just manipulate everything.
Until I got to the end of the maze and I was in this room, there was no more doors or lefts or rights, and it, I was, all that was left in the room was a mirror, and I had to take a hard look at myself. Wow. And to say the gig was up.
James: Welcome to the Live Lead last podcast where we equip you to live with purpose, lead with impact, and leave a legacy that truly lasts. l, and before we dive in, I wanna remind you about the five day Leadership Reset, [00:01:00] a focus step by step framework to help you break free from burnout, gain clarity, and realign your leadership with what matters most.
You can start your reset today at. Live lead last.com/reset. In this episode, we're exploring a topic. Every leader needs to understand. How the brain works in both limitation and transformation, and how the science of neuroplasticity can help us overcome deeply rooted patterns, including addiction, according to the National Institute of Drug Abuse.
Nearly 21 million Americans struggle with at least one addiction, yet only about 10% receive treatment. The reality is the leaders are not immune to these struggles and the ripple effects can touch every part of life and leadership. My guest today, George Haymaker knows this firsthand. George is a former entrepreneur who's battled with alcoholism and pain pill addiction, nearly cost him everything. Today, he's a neuroscience coach and educator combining decades of lived experience with deep training and brain science to help others achieve lasting [00:02:00] life transformation.
Through his coaching, he equips individuals and leaders to understand their brain, rewire destructive patterns, and live into a new identity. George's story is raw, redemptive, and rich with insight for anyone seeking real change. Let's jump into my conversation with George Haymaker.
George, it's so great to have you on the podcast. Thank you for taking some time today to have a conversation with us,
George: James. Uh, thanks so much for having me on. It's great to be here. And, uh, hello everyone.
James: Yeah, we were chatting a little bit before recording, just about your journey and so forth. Would you start by just sharing a bit about yourself and your journey and what's kind of brought you to where you are today?
George: Yeah, sure. So I'm 64. I live in Napa, California. And I was an entrepreneur for many years, about three and a half decades. My story really starts in childhood where, you know, I, I grew up in a privileged family financially, but there was a lot of unsettling elements to it. We, uh, my dad was a high achiever and we moved around [00:03:00] a lot.
You know, he was with a large corporation. So we were in new cities and I was in new schools about every 12, 18 months. And that was kind of very unsettling. You know, I never really got stable. I was always having to break relationships and try to meet new ones. I was always the new kid. And so I just became very uncomfortable with that lifestyle.
I didn't realize it at the time, I just thought it was normal. But, you know, looking back on it, um, I was pretty unsettled. Uh, and then I, I grew up in an era where, uh, discipline, you know, especially physical discipline was kind of the way of the world. So I received a lot of physical discipline. As I became more and more unsettled, I would act out more and more, get angry and, you know, just kind of the, the outputs from, you know, being anxious and unsettled and, and, you know, my parents disciplined me a lot physically, and so that just made me more unsettled.
But, and then there was an episode of some sexual [00:04:00] abuse from some older boys, kind of earlier in my life. And. My parents moved overseas when I was in ninth grade, and so I went to boarding school here in the US and I got to see them once a year during the summers. So kind of fending for myself here over in the US and having to kind of just be, uh, self-sufficient.
And so all of that, you know, by the time I got to college I was pretty uncomfortable in my skin. I have a lot of addiction in my family. On my mom's side, the whole side of the family, uh, suffered from addiction in one form or another. And so I, he started using drugs and alcohol at college to cope with this mental discomfort that I was having, and I found that it worked really, kind of made me feel better.
And so that's how I, I took addiction with me for the next 30 years, coping with mental discomfort. And so that was always the backdrop of my story, is that I was uncomfortable mentally and coping with drugs and alcohol to feel [00:05:00] more comfortable. And then as, as I went into entrepreneurialism and these high pressured environments, that was really like gasoline on fire.
Yeah. 'cause you know, stress only exacerbates any type of mental patterns that aren't helpful. And so I kind of operated my life that way, where I would was highly activated, my nervous system was always active, had trouble kinda resting and relaxing. And I was just on this mission to try to find significance for myself.
I was trying to measure up to my dad and, and live up to what I felt like his expectations were of me. And I would, you know, I was quick to anger, highly reactive, very defensive, just all the results of, you know, feeling less than, and so I was just trying to prove myself constantly, and that's kind of the way I operated my life until the age of 50 and addiction began to get the better of me as progressive, as most people know that have been involved in it.
Or know someone [00:06:00] that has, and you know, it really starts to be ruin your life and control your life. And that's what happened to me in my early fifties. I was succumbing to addiction. I was, I, I couldn't go more than, you know, a half an hour without using and drinking more substances just to get my system to calm down and feel normal.
It landed me in rehab at the age of 52. And I just remember as clear as you know, yesterday that I just had this moment where I asked why. So how did I get here? And. What was next? You know? Yeah. I mean, I was in my early fifties and I just was living a life that wasn't fulfilling or meaningful and, you know, substances were controlling me and it just was horrible.
So, you know, I was able to summon the wherewithal within to try again, and that kind of led me on a path of recovery and, and self-discovery. And, you know, it was, at that point I was willing to do anything. And so I landed in a 12 step program, aa. Got a sponsor who was great. Then I just started doing whatever I was told [00:07:00] from people that knew about it.
They'd been down the path before. Yeah. And, uh, turned out that, you know, being part of a 12 step program got me sober, but I just wanted to learn more and more about what had happened to me and, and this 12 sense of change. I just, I just am curious and so I started reading about psychology and spirituality.
Ultimately, it led to me to neuroscience in the study of the brain because all these patterns that we have in our, in our lives that are unhelpful, they're all patterned in the brain. They're all a result of all these things that we've done over and over again. And they caused these patterns to develop in the brain, right?
And so I just became fascinated with it and. So that's what I do today is I, you know, learn so much from my own transformation. I found it so valuable in my own life that I wanted to kind of bring these lessons to others and, and not just keep these secrets to myself, but, you know, hopefully let some other people benefit as well.
That's
James: amazing. That's amazing. I, I'm interested [00:08:00] in your addiction journey. When did you know you had hit rock bottom? So, addiction's
George: one of those things that, as I said, is progressive and, and it, it starts to migrate from impulsively being able to use substances when you want to. In other words, you have some level of control or say in the matter to where it's compulsive it, it has you.
Physically and mentally and psychologically and spiritually in every way. And it's running your life. Yeah. So you kind of see, you know, if you're aware or want to be aware, you kind of see the, where it's headed and you know that it's getting a better view and you know that you cannot stop using. But it's just got such a hold on you that it almost doesn't matter.
James: Yeah.
George: And so I was like a mouse in a, in one of those mazes that kept trying to find different ways to still operate my life and function in a, in a work sense and relationship sense in a home life [00:09:00] while still being able to use and, and it just becomes more and more difficult. So I was like, in this maze, turning left, turning right, trying to just manipulate everything.
Until I got to the end of the maze and I was in this room, there was no more doors or lefts or rights, and it, I was, all that was left in the room was a mirror, and I had to take a hard look at myself. Wow. And to say the gig was up. And I mean, I, it, it just was so bad I could not go longer than, you know, a half an hour without using more just to feel normal and calm my system down.
My wife had left me at that point, uh, temporarily. She came back ultimately, but I knew at that point that the gig was up. I just had to do something different.
James: That's amazing. I know that moment of clarity for other people I've talked to who have dealt with addiction, taking that step to get help and step into freedom or recovery from that is sometimes challenging.
What were some of the first steps that you took in in rehab and that helped [00:10:00] you begin the path to recovery and discovery in your own life?
George: Well, the first thing you know, neurologically, the reason why changes so far is because the brain is, is designed and wired to seek out the familiar,
James: yeah. I
George: mean, your brain's number one job is to keep you safe and in survive.
So you would think that, you know, you'd say, well, why didn't the brain help you avoid the drugs and the alcohol? Well, you know, that has to do with, you know, medicating symptoms. But yeah, your brain doesn't know when you're asking it to change. We don't know what that's going to look like. Yeah. You know, especially when you're an addict and you've been living life a certain way for 30 some years as I had, that's what you knew.
You know that you have to change, but you don't know what living life without drugs and alcohol looks like and either does your brain. And so it's resistant to change because it doesn't know if what you're gonna change to Yeah. Is safe and going to keep you in survivor. So that's why change is still so [00:11:00] hard is because it's just inconceivable.
Like we don't know what that means yet. And, and so, and, and so yeah, I just, at that point, I was willing to do anything because life had just gotten so bad that I had given up any attachment to, to drugs, alcohol, my way of life before. And that's what it takes a lot for a lot of people is the consequences need to be so high and so significant.
That they don't share what's next. Yeah. It just has to be better than what they're doing. Yeah.
James: And
George: that's the difficult part is, you know, if we could catch these things sooner and send the consequences, you know, wouldn't, we wouldn't waste so much time and these patterns. But unfortunately life doesn't work that way.
The brain doesn't work that way. So there, there are very specific ways that the brain wants to change. And if we don't understand how the brain works, how it functions, what change looks like, how the brain processes change, then we can't even begin the process.
James: Yeah, it's [00:12:00] amazing. One of the contracts we teach in with teams and coaching is this idea that the more you know yourself, that you can lead yourself, and that our actions are actually the result of tendencies.
And whether that's nature or nurture, and, and you talked a lot about just your childhood growing up, the experiences and the environments that you grew up in so forth. Actually sometimes shape, you know, the way we behave, or addiction behavior and so forth like that. As you begin to understand more and more about just like your own trauma as a child and childhood experiences, how did that change or shape your healing journey or your recovery journey?
George: All of these tendencies, you know, I call 'em patterns. Yeah. Are developed as ways for us to meet our needs. Yeah. So we all, as human beings have six basic psychological needs and, you know, we all have them in different proportions, but they're always the same needs. You know, we have needs for stability and significance and competence and [00:13:00] togetherness and uh, equality.
And so every, all these patterns that we develop, you know, starting in childhood. Or in service of these, satisfying these needs in some way. And so ideally, you know, we want to have these needs you met in childhood, you know, through unconditional love. And it just, in, in really healthy ways. But unfortunately, you know, families are not always, uh, healthy.
And sometimes some of the dynamics could be dysfunctional. And so we have, we're kind of left to satisfy these needs in whatever ways that we can. And sometimes they're, you know, they can be dysfunctional or they can create patterns that are unhealthy that we carry with us for the rest of our lives. And the more that we practice these patterns or re-engage in them or reinforce them, it's like going to the gym and re out your muscles.
They just get stronger and stronger these patterns and the brain [00:14:00] holds onto them because. It's familiar. Yeah. And, and the brain, you know, wants to, to serve resources because it has a lot of work to do every day. And so it's really just going to these familiar patterns and reengaging with them over and over again because it doesn't have to try to figure out how else to, you know, work through these situations.
'cause it already knows that these patterns, even if they're not helpful to you. They're familiar. They know that, you know, the brain knows that you're gonna be safe, relatively, you're not gonna die. And so it just keeps, you know, bringing these patterns forward into your mind for you to reenact. And that's why that's what feeling suck is, is that we just get these patterns are so well wor and so well reinforced and re rehearsed that they're like these deep roofs you in the ground from a tree.
They just get stronger and stronger. 'cause we keep watering and fertilizing them over and over again. And so, you know, what [00:15:00] I had to do and what you know, others have to do is, you know, we have to go back to these early patterns where they were developed and understand why and how that they developed.
Mm-hmm. And then we say, well, okay, we've carried these with us into adulthood, they're not helpful now. So in my case, you know, I was getting angry a lot and hypersensitive and depressive and all of that. So clearly that wasn't helping me. It was ruining relationships. It was affecting my success in business.
So I had to go back and understand how these were formed. Then I had to decide and work with those to loosen the grip of those on my psyche. So I had to understand what the costs of continuing to, you know, I engage in these patterns over and over again, and, and I just had to loosening the grip of those patterns on, on me, and then I was able to.
You know, rebuild my identity in a way that, you know, I wanted to live the rest of my life. And so that's what I had to do. I just had to decide that, you know, that that old person, that whole [00:16:00] identity of myself was no longer serving me. I, I wanted to live differently. And so I, I spent time actually diagramming what this identity might look like, what the values were I wanted to live by, what my belief systems were gonna be.
And I actually, you know, drew a picture of what this new person was gonna look like. How much happier he was gonna be. You know, I spent time in the emotional side of that because it's important to feel the emotions of what living differently is gonna be like. 'cause emotions are huge part of building these patterns.
They're like the game, the patterns. Yeah.
James: And
George: they, they, they accelerated, they, they, they're like an accelerant. And so I just, you, you spend time with this new identity, visualizing it, mapping it out, understanding what your value systems are, your belief systems. So you have a clear picture of you know, what you're striving to be, and then what it involves is just coupling all of your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors with this new identity.
So how would this new person [00:17:00] think? How would this new person feel, and how would they act? And so then we just start practicing those thoughts, feelings, and behaviors of this new person. We're building a new root system by doing that, right? And by leaving behind the old patterns and not engaging in them anymore, uh, we're weakening those patterns.
So it's like the root systems of the old well worn tree begin to weaken and go dormant. And then we're planting a brand new tree on the other side of our property, which is emblematic of a new identity. Yeah. And it starts out small with, you know, thin, shallow roots. But the more we practice being that person.
Uh, watering and fertilizing that new tree, the stronger and deeper it gets. And the funny thing is, is if you think about other things that we learn in practice, like a new instrument or a new language or a new sport, it takes time and it's far at the beginning, but over time it begin to get easier and more automatic.
Well, developing a new identity, a new mental [00:18:00] experience for yourself, a new way of being is exactly the same thing. You look at it like learning a new language or learning a new instrument or sport, it just is going to take time. So if you, if you can get your head around that to think of it that way, for me it was a lot easier to accomplish 'cause I had a plan, I had an understanding of what I was trying to do.
James: That's incredible. Yeah. I love that idea. And I know neuroplasticity is kind of a big piece of. In your practice and what you do in coaching and so forth, and that rewiring, reframing the, the personality and so forth in your coaching, when you're dealing with clients who are overcoming addiction or just trying to transform their life in general, how do the daily habits play into that?
And what are some key like disciplines, habits that kind of transcend every individual to kind of become that new person?
George: Neuroplasticity, which is the brain's natural ability to change, adapt, and evolve. That's one of the beautiful things about the brain, is that [00:19:00] whoever we are today has been built on all of the experiences we've ever had in our life.
All the thoughts, feelings, and, and actions. But it doesn't have to stay that way. Right? And the brain can morph and change and is malleable. And so you know, really what the brain learns by is repetition. So like if you remember back in school, if you were a good student, you would study a little bit every day and do it over and over again multiple times a day.
Yeah.
James: I can't say I was a good student. I wasn't a good student. Okay. Well hopefully I'm better now. Always out there. Yeah.
George: Well more, you could have been the creamer who tried to do everything at the last minute. Well, you know, try both methods and see which one. You get a better grade on the test, you know, will be, and it's, it's the one where the brain is able to learn every day, multiple times through iteration, things begin to take hold.
It doesn't do well if you try to cram it with information. [00:20:00] And so that's really what building a new version of yourself is about, is picturing this person how they live, and then acting out that role every day, all day. Every little habit. When I say habit, that includes thoughts, feelings, and actions all commingle together.
'cause if you think about it, you know, whenever you experience something, you're not just experiencing an emotion all by itself, but it's usually coupled with a thought and then coupled with, you know, usually you take an action based on that greater. Yeah. And so it's kind of all woven together. And so really what I try to help people do is diagram a new day for them, what that's going to look like.
And it'll start like from the moment that they wake up, like the time that they wake up, and then what exactly what they're gonna do from every minute their and after until they go to sleep. And even the, you know, the half an hour before the sleep and you know, the [00:21:00] time that they go to sleep because sleep, nutrition, diet, exercise, mindfulness practices are all critical.
To building this new version of ourselves. So really, we just start to map out how this person is gonna live their life. And it's made up, as we know, living our lives is made up of a bunch of stuff, interwoven thoughts, feelings, and actions all day long, every day. But they have to sit on top of this new foundation that's made up of this new identity that's constructed with, you know, clear understanding of our values, beliefs, and so.
You can't just start to change a behavior and expect it to sit. Yeah. You have to start with this version and true understanding of what this person is, what they stand for, who they are, you know, and then you start to layer on the habits on top of that. Yeah.
James: Yeah. I, I'm reminded of James Clear's book Atomic Habits, where he talks about you actually.
Live into your identity. Like [00:22:00] you don't just go out and say, you know, become a, a runner. You live into that identity. What do runners do? They put on their running shoes. They go out and run a little bit. And until that, that habit, that discipline becomes more and more a reality for you and you actually become a runner.
You know, I had that same journey for myself in reading. You know, I, growing up, I still, today, I, I struggle with dyslexia. So I told myself a lie. I believed something that I couldn't read, I couldn't comprehend, I couldn't read fast. And so I just stayed away from reading, right? But I had to kind of rewire my thinking by taking identity, well, what do, how can, can I become a reader?
So I started small disciplines of just reading pages instead of books. And, you know, those pages turned into books. And, you know, one book turned to to another. Until now I can say I'm an avid reader, even though my dyslexia hasn't changed. Those things haven't changed. It's that that rewiring of the lies that we told ourselves.
Right? [00:23:00] Yeah. So that is a classic,
George: a beautiful example. Thank you for sharing that. But that's a classic case of rewiring your brain. Yeah. So you developed a pattern. Yep. Which, which is represented by connections of neurons in your brain. And if you think of your. As a, as a, like a, a ran marine analyst. Like if you take a picture of the United States with all the roads and bridges and everything else, it's like this web.
That's what everybody's brain looks like. And there's 85 billion neurons or brain cells in your head, and they're all connected in different ways. Face thought that represent how you've lived your life. Mm-hmm. Okay. And your brain looks different than mine and looks different than every, right? 'cause we all have different experiences.
Okay. So you. Developed this pattern of not reading because you are trying to meet a need of surviving because you know, when you did try to read it was probably a bad experience for you. Yep. And so you developed a pattern of avoiding reading [00:24:00] in order to feel safe. And survive. 'cause you didn't wanna threaten your significance by going through this experience of not being able to read.
Right. Right. And so that was your pattern is, I wanna feel safe, I wanna survive. I, I still want to have significance and feel like I'm confident, so I'm, my pattern is gonna be to avoid reading. Okay. So you developed that over years. You practiced that, you rehearsed it, and so developed a strong root system in your brick.
And so then you, but then you made a FYA decision. You wanted to change your identity. Yep. Into a reader. Yep. And so you had to start out by being aware of the issue and being willing and having the motivation to do something about it. And then, like you said, you started very small, slight steps. You envisioned what a reading could do for you, how much it would mean for you that it was a part of your value system.
And so you took little steps, you know, you read a page. Yeah. And then you [00:25:00] experience the reward from that. And that's what building a habit requires is, you know, we need reward. We need to experience reward to close the loop on the habit. Yeah. Because if the brain doesn't detect or one from something, it want to continue to engage in it.
There's no motivation in it. We won't get any positive feel good neurochemicals. And so just little by little you read a page, then you read two pages. You kept getting reward, you kept getting reward. And before you knew it, you know, through repetition, you became good at it. And you developed this, your, your neuros began to shift.
You developed a whole new neural pathway about being a reader. It was attached to your identity because it was important to you. You wanted to do it, you were motivated, and so there you go. That's, that is a very good example of someone shifting. It's neuroplasticity, it's building a new habit. It's shifting their identity.
James: Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. I resonate so much with, with that concept and that the science [00:26:00] behind that. I'm interested, you know, shifting from like your own journey to now what you're doing in coaching. When did you, when did it connect with you that like. Man, I, I've had so much personal work that I've done in my life that I actually wanna take this and help other people with it.
George: Yeah. So when I recovered, I had this idea to create an ice cream brand. And so I did that for about six years. And the reason for that is 'cause I transferred addictions into sugar and I wanted to find a healthier ice cream and still taste it as good as real ice cream. So I, I did that for six years, but I just found it being a real grind.
You know, the mission was to really try to help people with addiction and mental health issues, but it, it just never got to the point where it was scaling enough. So, uh, at that point I was in my late fifties and, you know, I've been entrepreneur all my life. I didn't want to keep going down that road. It was just too wearing on me.
And so I asked myself, what am I gonna do [00:27:00] next? And I think as a lot of people get older, you know, we wanna try to give back. And make a mark on the world. And, you know, I, I still have a high need for significance. Yeah. Like, I wanna feel like I'm leaving this world doing something that's meaningful to me.
It has purpose. And so I was kinda looking at, I, you know, I, I can't go work for anyone else 'cause I haven't worked for someone in, you know, 40 years. And so I said, well, what do I have to offer in, in this moment of my life? That was difficult and yeah, so rewarding for me. Has taught me so much. I said, well, why don't I try to bring that to people?
And so that's what I've done. You know, I just love the brain so much and, and I just know how much is possible if we spend time to get to know it, how it works and, and how change does all change traces back to the brain eventually. You know, I just wanted to bring everything that I've learned, my [00:28:00] experience, my life experience, and to help others.
Whether they're stuck in, in mental discomfort, whether they have addiction, right? I also help companies understand their employees brains because, you know, if we want to get anything, any more out of our employees, or if we want to make them as productive as they can be and find as much meaning in their jobs as they can find, then the leaders really should understand how the brain works because they're not really managing people, they're managing their brains.
And so I also help leaders understand how the brain works so that they can, you know, help their employees with their mental capacities, their brain performance, you know, how to lead teams in a more brain, brain friendly way. 'cause I think a lot of, there's a lot of company cultures that are threatening and that actually shuts people's brains down.
You actually get less out of people when you're triggering stress responses.
James: Yeah. So what does, if somebody's working with you, what does that look like?
George: [00:29:00] Yeah, so, you know, I, I do a lot of one-on-one coaching, transformational coaching. It's generally a 12 week program, because I find that 90 days is, you know, and there's a lot of research out there about that, that, you know, it's, it's gonna take a number of iterations, a number of repetitions, amount of times to give people well, down the road.
Into shifting into this new version of themselves before they can kind of take the reins themselves and self manage, and self-diagnose and self operate themselves. At at, at the point of 90 days, they've learned enough. They understand how all this works to where they can. It's now be transferred outta something they have to think about, just something that's more automatic and they could begin to operate their lives so sustainably.
So I do, my primary program is 12 weeks, but I work with people on shorter term basis. I work with companies on, with workshops, you know, productivity type workshops, [00:30:00] leadership workshops. Yeah. So just, you know, that's awesome. If people wanna get in touch, they can go to my website, which is george haymaker.com.
Uh, there's a link on there for a free discovery call where we can talk for free. Let's spend thirty, forty five minutes on the phone and just talk about what's going on with either you. Or, you know, your company and, and how we might Yeah. Chief of work, uh, fit to work together and, and how we might, what would be the best solution.
James: Yeah. What if somebody's listening to this and they feel like maybe they have a, an addiction issue, maybe they have some, some just some struggles and they just feel like they believe the lie, that they're just too far gone. What, what would you say to somebody like that? Well,
George: first of all, if science proves that that's not the case, that.
The brain can change, adapt of evolve pretty much for everyone. And you know, if you wanna talk about someone that was pretty far gone, that was me. And, you know, with, with the willingness and, and summon the courage and motivation [00:31:00] and commitment, that's all really someone needs to bring is, you know, they've had enough, you know, they're finding enough reasons to try to be different.
They have loved ones, they love themselves. They just wanna try to give life another shot in a different way. There's lots of help out there myself or you know, lots of other, uh, places you can go to get help that can start you down the path. And that's all it really takes is a willingness and awareness and a desire to be different and helps out there.
And the brain. The brain will, will change if you, you know, if you follow the right processes.
James: That's awesome. I work with an organization called Giant. I'm not sure if you ever heard of Giant or not. It's really, really fascinating because our primary tool that we use in coaching is this construct called know yourself to lead yourself, and it's a picture of infinity symbol on its side or infinity symbol.
Basically this idea that we all have tendencies that, uh, [00:32:00] nature, nurture and choice that create these patterns, which you said the word patterns, patterns of behavior in our life, that the way that we show up in the world and that those actions have consequences. The consequences create the reality that we find ourselves in or that other people experience us.
And so when you're just talking about your journey and all the stuff you're talking about, neuroplasticity and so forth, it resonates so much with what we do in coaching. And, but, uh, so I, I just, I find that stuff really fascinating and just inhabits and productivity and so forth. So it's really cool. But, so basically everything you're talking about,
George: you know.
Trace it back to the brain neurologically. Yeah, it does. And, and all I do is, you know, kind of make those connections. Right? Yeah. And, but you know, the brain has very specific ways that, uh, it, it needs to make permanent, sustainable, long lasting change. Yeah. And it, and it, and the neurons actually have to move and form new pathway, [00:33:00] and we have to simulate and fire those over and over and over again for them to become the default.
And move away from the old. Yeah. So really, you know, a lot of people like yourself are, are dealing in these types of things that cause that change. I, I'm just kind of stuck at a level, you know, down inside the brain where the, the neurological level.
James: Yeah. Well the, the cool thing about that is that like, you know, the, there's some things are hardwired into us, our personality and so forth that we, you know, you can, you can alter, but like, you know, if I'm introverted or extroverted, that's just the way it is.
When you understand the impact of your personality, your impact of your, your backstory or the, you know, the trauma and so forth on kids, how it actually comes out, you can actually break those. All, all you're doing that neuroplasty, you break those patterns instead of acting accidentally, you begin to be aware your tendencies and begin to live intentionally in, you know, changing those behaviors and eventually [00:34:00] they become patterns and new patterns and everything you express there.
So it's really cool.
George: Yeah.
James: Yeah. Okay, so here's a question I'd like to ask you. What's one thing that you wish everyone understood about addiction and healing of the human brain? Well, you know,
George: addiction, it is a disease. It's a disease of the brain. I know there's still stigmas out there, or opinions and interpretations that it, you know, might be an issue around willpower.
You know, addiction tends to be and can be very genetically predisposed. So many people, you know, when you see it running in families, you know, that's not an accident. What it is, is it's a, it's a malfunctioning of the reward system or network of the brain. So the limbic network is what it's called, and many people that have these genetic predispositions, the reward systems don't function properly.
They don't get, uh, na [00:35:00] reward from natural life pleasures the same way that people that don't have. Predispositions do. And so, you know, we're all hardwired to get reward from natural life pleasures that help us survive. So things like eating, drinking water, being socially engaged, falling in love, finding a maid, having sex, having babies, those are all things that we get, uh, dopamine, uh, neuro transmission, four.
'cause it gives us some motivation to wanna seek them out over and over again. Well, people are, are genetically predispose predisposed to addiction. Oftentimes their reward networks don't look quite the same way. We don't get the same level of reward from natural life pleasures. And then when you, when you couple that with early adverse childhood experiences, things that are stressful and we're developing uncomfortable dysfunctional patterns.
It trigger the brain in a, in a stressful way. A lot of times it can, you know, release the addiction [00:36:00] or express the genes that cause it to trigger. Yeah. And then once we start to use, bring substances, use drugs to make ourselves feel better, you know, that's where it begins to take hold.
James: Yeah.
George: So I think a common misperception is how addiction starts.
You know, how it takes hold. You know, I guess that would be my, yeah, my answer on that.
James: Yeah. I think sometimes people think it's a moral issue or issue of morality or, you know, sin, I have a faith background, so it's a sinful issue or everything. But when you start, begin to understand the science behind the sickness of the brain, that, that makes a lot of sense.
If you could give listeners one secret weapon of, in this area of neuroscience for personal growth, what would it be? If, if there's. Like one thing that you're like, do this and you're gonna be, you know, so much more successful in your change.
George: I really
James: think
George: that, you know, we need to spend time with our identity, [00:37:00] understanding that person that we want to be, and making sure that, you know, everything is in alignment.
You know, there, there isn't just like one little thing that you can do, you know, like wake up in the morning and try this. Because if it, if all these patterns that you're trying to develop or behaviors aren't tethered into this new identity of the person that you're trying to become, they won't stick.
Uh, because trying a, a new behavior and just doing it over and over again, that's like first order change, behavior change. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't stick neurologically in our system. Like there, you know, there's no, it, it, it's too consciously. Far to keep trying the same behavior over and over again without tethering it to, you know, why we're doing it, tethering it to our values and, and so we really need to take a fresh look at the person that we wanna be, understand who that is, spend time diagramming [00:38:00] it, detailing it, laying out, you know, or understanding what our true values are, what our beliefs are, and tethering all that together.
And then beginning to begin to, you know, lay patterns on top of it.
James: That's good. Yeah. I wanna ask you, if you were mentoring a close friend or somebody that you cared about, is there a, a life lesson or a nugget of wisdom, something from your own personal philosophy on life, leadership, on relationships, recovery that you would wanna make sure that they knew?
What would that be?
George: Well, I, I would just. I guess the acid question is, are you, you know, if you were to die, if you were to die tomorrow, if you were on your deathbed, you know, are you happy with where you're at? Are there things left undone? Are you happy with the type of person that you are? 'cause that's really the question I had to ask myself is, you know, I was, you know, at a real crossroads and I had to ask myself, was [00:39:00] this how I was gonna go out of this world?
And is this. Who I, what I wanted to be known for and the hell I wanted. Was there anything left undone? And I, and the answer to that question was, yes. And I, this is not what I wanted to be remembered for. This is not how I wanted to experience my life. And so, you know, I took the steps necessary. So it's really asking ourselves that question.
Are we happy? Time goes by fast, right? Yeah, it does. And we get, we we're in these patterns. And the brain is resistant to change. And so we just kind of keep living our lives as they are. But you know, are we taking that fresh moment, taking a look at, you know, is everything the way that we want them to be?
Or if we were to go out of this world tomorrow, would we be happy? Or is there anything we would change? Yeah. You know, that's awesome. So I think that that's you the important step in question to ask ourselves.
James: Yeah. You know, one of the things that. My wife and I do coaching with married couples. One that we have this exercise we do called Discovering Him.[00:40:00]
Discovering her, where we kinda walk through talents and values and abilities and all those things. And one of the questions we always ask is, what's, what's the fruit of your life? You know? And when your life is over, what do you want people to be saying about you? And so like even you begin to frame what you want, the further your life to be what you want.
To be known of you, then you start living today into that. And again, it goes back to that identity piece and, and really that's, I think that's really how you live with significance and, you know, leave a legacy that lasts beyond who we are as individuals and what we do here on earth. So. Well, George, thank you for such a, I mean, wealth of knowledge and obviously this is a, something you've spent years learning and developing yourself and certifications and neuroscience.
So much needed content here and help for people that are really struggling in this place. So thank you so much for, for what you do, and thank you for taking time to be on the podcast today.
George: My pleasure, James. Thanks for having [00:41:00] me.
James: One of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is this lasting change doesn't start with behavior, it starts with identity. If you want different outcomes, you have to decide who you're becoming. Then align your thoughts, feelings, and actions with that new identity until it becomes second nature.
If that resonates with you, go back and listen to last week's episode where I unpack how to rewire your inner dialogue for growth using daily declarations. It's a practical next step to start living from your new identity today. If you wanna connect with George and learn more about his coaching workshops and resources, head to george haymaker.com and be sure to take advantage of his free discovery call.
And remember, if you're ready to hit reset in your own leadership in life, start the five day leadership reset liveleadlast.com/reset.
Also, I'd love for you to get rooted, my free weekly email designed to help you grow deeper in leadership in life. You can sign up by texting Grow to 6 6 8 [00:42:00] 6 6. If we haven't connected yet, you can find me on Instagram and LinkedIn. Just search for thejamesduvall, and if this conversation helped you, please rate, review and share this episode so more leaders can step into the change they need.
Until next time, live with purpose, lead with impact, and leave a legacy that lasts. [00:43:00]