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The Honest Money Show is your guide to understanding what money really is — and why today’s system isn’t working. Hosted by Anja Dragovic, this show cuts through the noise to explore how money shapes our lives, where it’s gone wrong, and what a better future could look like. Along the way, you'll discover how Bitcoin fits into the bigger picture — not as hype, but as a serious response to a broken system. Whether you're curious, skeptical, or already down the
Speaker: Welcome to Honest Money.
I'm your host, Anya, and today's
episode is brought to you by hard block.
Anja: Joining me today is Adam Hudson.
Adam Hudson is a business owner.
He's been in business for over 30 years.
He's also the founder of
Unemployable Media and a Bitcoin
and a Freedom Maximalist that I
found on Instagram of all places.
Welcome to Honest Money.
Adam,
Adam: my absolute pleasure.
I love the title of your show.
How could I Resist?
Anja: Thank you.
Thank you.
I, yeah, my background is in
marketing, so I wanted a really
strong first impression and people
to wonder what the show is about.
Adam: Yeah.
Um, the shows.
So
Anja: I would love for you to introduce
yourself a little bit more to my audience.
I've been following you for some
time on Instagram, and, uh, you've
got like over 106,000 followers
that you've been building up
over a number of years and, and.
You're not as active on Bitcoin,
Twitter, whereas I'm probably more
active on Bitcoin, Twitter, and
very underactive on Instagram.
Um, but yeah, like tell, tell the
audience like where are you from?
How did you get into business
and how did you get into Bitcoin?
Adam: Great question.
So I just want to, uh, apologize
to the audience where I am today.
I'm in ATU in Bali, and right
next door is a construction site.
So if you hear jack hammering and all
that, there's nothing I can do about it.
There's about 50 Javanese dudes
out there hammering it out.
So, um, I apologize if
that's coming through.
So yeah, look Anna, my story
is, uh, is it Ana or Anja?
Anja: Anja
Adam: Anja?
Yeah, so I'm Australian,
as you can probably tell.
Born in, um, Adelaide and today
I split my time between Panama
and Indonesia and Cyprus.
So I have homes in, um, all three places.
I left Australia about a year ago per.
Um, but my background is, uh,
basically entrepreneurship.
So I'm 51 today.
I started in business when I was
19, and I've been happy birthday.
Oh, no, no.
I, I don't mean I'm 51 today.
I mean, at this time in my life I'm 51.
Um, so yeah, so, um, it's, uh, so
I've been in business for 32 years.
Um, and I came from a working
class family and, uh, I learned
business by trial and error.
I didn't go to university.
Um, I just read books.
Failed a lot.
I had a bit of success in my twenties,
um, but didn't invest my profits
well, uh, struggled through most
of my thirties and then really made
my money in my forties, um, through
a few businesses that I started.
And I was fortunate to invest those,
uh, those profits into real estate.
And so I invested heavily into industrial,
um, buildings on the Gold Coast.
So I owned multi-tenanted factories.
Uh, that I had tenants like
a Hillsong style church.
I like a Pentecostal churches.
I had gyms.
I had, um, e-commerce companies.
So I had multiple of these free standing
buildings, which were divided into, um,
you know, spaces from about 150 meters
up to about 500 meters, um, per tenant.
Uh, and I also own a, uh, a
large caravan park as well.
Um, so that's my sort of
business investing background.
And I came across Bitcoin in
2000 and, uh, 1314 originally.
Uh, I was living in Los
Angeles at the time and I had
friends talking about Bitcoin.
I think I bought some and sold it
and didn't really understand it.
Um, I certainly didn't
buy a big stack then.
I'm not a, uh, an old
school whale Bitcoin.
Um, I started accumulating Bitcoin
in 2017, 18, around that time,
and really not that in earnest.
I, I bought a few Bitcoin back then.
But it wasn't really until COVID
or pre COVID, when was that?
I'm just trying to think now,
2019 that I started to accumulate.
So just before COVID I started
to get really into Bitcoin
and started to accumulate.
So my first Bitcoins were bought very
cheap, um, and uh, but really in earnest,
um, when it was around that four or
5,000 mark and then up from there.
Um, and so at first Bitcoin for
me was just like an investment.
You buy it because you want it to go up.
Then over time I learned about money and
I learned why I loved your podcast title.
Um, honest Money.
It is the only honest Money in the world.
Um, so I'm not sure which direction
you'd like to take it, but I, I, I
became a real enthusiast and, uh,
and it just captured my imagination.
It educated me about money.
It educated me about the nature of life,
which sounds weird, but it really did
teach me the essence of what we do as
entrepreneurs and how broken the, the,
the system is that we save and measure in.
And so, um, today I try to educate people.
I, I travel over the world teaching mainly
Bitcoin is really what I'm interested in.
Now.
Anja: Have you been to
Bitcoin Bali House yet?
Adam: I have not, no, I'm in Bali, but
I haven't been to Bitcoin, Bali house.
Anja: Yeah.
I went and visited them when
I was there last year I think.
And yeah, really, really
nice people run the place.
And it's very well organized.
I'm actually quite impressed.
Adam: Oh, that's great.
I mean, I, I think that
grassroots stuff is amazing.
And Cyprus, I, I attend the, uh,
Bitcoin meetups and I've spoken at them.
Um, and that's really what makes.
Bitcoin's so great is is the, the
grassroots community and it's why
I love going to the events and uh,
I just love the eclectic mix of
everyone from Wall Street billionaires
to Cipher Punks and rebels all
in the one room at the one time.
It's awesome.
Anja: Yep.
I, I love it.
I go to quite a few meetups here in
Australia and we have this wonderful
event called the Bitcoin Bush
Bash, where, which is completely
like open source, decentralized
grassroots community run event.
It's free to attend, there's no like
sponsorships, no commercial interest,
and it's just organized by local
people so anyone can put their hand up.
Um, and there's several in a
different state and I think UK
has now also copied the model and
created something similar over there.
And yeah, they're just wonderful events.
We just get together and talk
about Bitcoin for like three days.
Mm-hmm.
And does attract like a very
eclectic mix of people, but we all
get along really well because I
guess those kind of core values.
Are there.
Um, but I'm very curious to know, Adam,
like, so what was it that finally clicked
in for you when it comes to Bitcoin?
Was it just understanding
money or was it anything else
Adam: as well?
Well, I mean, from a bus, I think
the business economics clicked in
for me before the moral, um, aspects
of Bitcoin because I'm a bit, I'm an
investor and a business guy first,
and that's what I'm obsessed with.
So, well, I was obsessed with these days.
I'm sort of semi-retired and
I'm not as obsessed with that.
But, um, you know, first of all,
global digital limited asset, you know,
these were the words of Kathy Wood.
Um, when she was describing Bitcoin, I
thought, here we have this alternative.
Um, savings technology that is global.
It's digital, which means that anybody
can access it, um, de decentralized, um,
which means nobody can control it despite
the fud, fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
That is an acronym for, for new
listeners who are not familiar
with that phrase, um, you know,
it, it's not controlled by anybody.
It's not co-opted by anybody
buying a whole bunch of, it
doesn't give you more votes.
It's actually a node that you know, it, it
controls the consensus network mechanism.
So, um, when I understood sort of the,
the, I think what sold it on, on it from
an economic point of view was I looked at
the universe of, uh, investible assets.
So on earth, if you divide the
world's assets between gold bonds,
real estate, art, and collectibles.
Equities as in the stock
market and everything.
If you put all of those assets
onto a chart and add up their total
value savings, like fiat currency
that's saved in the bank, it's
about a thousand trillion dollars,
which is a quadrillion dollars.
So just think of the number of
thousand, and then you look at Bitcoin.
So how much of global assets does Bitcoin
represent out of the thousand trillion,
based on it being let's say, a hundred
thousand dollars a coin today, how?
How much is it worth for
all the coins combined?
It's about 2 trillion, so it's
about 2 trillion out of a thousand
trillion of potential places
people can invest their money.
So it's a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny segment.
But when you compare all of those
asset classes side by side, since the
inception of Bitcoin to today, Bitcoin
has been the best performing asset
every year except for four years.
And overall it has been
the best by a mile.
You're talking hundreds and hundreds
of percents before, like the best
performing stock in that time is
Tesla and it's annihilated Tesla.
So it's, it's annihilates everything.
Yet it only represents two parts of a
thousand in a pie, which to me says,
well, there's all this money in these
big pools of capital, like real estate
and gold and bonds and everything
that is underperforming Bitcoin.
So surely some of that money,
even a small amount of that
money is gonna sooner or later.
Investment managers, money managers
are gonna say, look, we really
should have some exposure to this
incredibly strong asset called Bitcoin.
And I'm not saying they're gonna
sell all their real estate and buy
Bitcoin, but if they sold 2% of their
real estate to get some exposure to
Bitcoin to just spice up the returns.
Right?
Um, and you're seeing it now.
You're seeing nation states doing it.
You're seeing Harvard University
famously said Bitcoin is more likely
to go to zero than a hundred thousand
dollars than three years later.
They bought a hundred million
dollars worth at a hundred
thousand dollars, right?
Yeah.
So eventually it bends the knee
of everyone from the banks.
We've seen JP Morgan Chase now saying
Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is the future.
We've got a White House that's
saying the future is crypto.
So I just looked at that and went, okay,
we have this incredibly strong, um,
asset, the best asset the world has ever
seen from a performance point of view.
It has a minority share of the pie.
And then it's fixed.
So it is the only thing on
that periodic table of assets
that you can't make more of.
Right?
Gold.
About two to 3% of gold is mined
every year, which means that in 50
years there'll be double the amount
of gold on earth than there is today.
So there is no real fixed
supply of gold, right?
There's no fixed supply of shares because
companies can issue them will, there's
obviously no fixed supply of money because
the US dollar and every fiat can't see
in the world relies on money printing.
So it is the only fixed supply
where the monetary policy is hard
coded and is deflationary in nature.
Each year less and less and less
is getting printed over time.
So when I looked at those things together,
I was like, alright, from an investment,
an investment thesis point of view,
this is the fastest horse in the race
with really cheap odds at the moment.
Um, so that's that.
Then I looked at the moral
and ethical side, and that's
a whole different discussion.
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Anja: Yeah.
And it's, that's what kind
of makes it so easy to love.
Like you just kind of, you
feel good about owning Bitcoin.
Um, but I laughed just before when
you were talking, um, because you
mentioned, you know, it's been the
best performing asset apart from four
years, and then last year was obviously
for a lot of people, very unexpected
ending to, to the, to the year.
It was just, I'm laughing because
obviously I still, I still believe
in Bitcoin and I don't care so
much about the price these days,
but, um, were you surprised by,
by how Bitcoin ended last year?
Adam: Uh, yeah.
Look, I, I felt we would go
a lot higher than we did.
Um, but I'm not at all disappointed.
Like these days I'll see, like,
I did a call this morning.
I got a call from Melbourne,
one of my mates who runs a,
a, a company called Storm Re.
He rang me, he says, oh,
brother, we're up 6% today.
And I was like, oh, I haven't even looked.
You know, I, I'm not as.
Varied.
Uh, you know, like, um, these days
when I was younger in my Bitcoin
journey, I was like watching the
price every day and I'd see it plummet
and I'd, oh my God, have I made the
right decision, the wrong decision?
I mean, I, I just keep buying.
And I published my purchases on
my Instagram like a week ago.
I bought more Bitcoin
at $90,000 or $89,000.
And I said, guys, people keep asking me
what's happening with the Bitcoin price.
And I say, I just went and bought, I
think I bought 30 grand's worth last week.
Boom.
This is, this is what I think
it's the old saying, right?
Like, if you wanna know what somebody
believes in, look at what they invest in.
Look at what they actually own that will
really tell you what they believe in.
'cause a lot of people out there
talking, but what are they really buying?
Um, so no, the, the short answer is,
um, I've been here long enough to
not try and pick tops and bottoms.
I'm not a trader.
I had a guy on my podcast called
Jason Pino, who's a trader, and
he said, Adam, you should wait.
Just wait.
Because the charts are saying
it's gonna go here and he might
be right, but I'm not a trader.
And I, I, and I look at it and go,
look, I'm not selling, um, yet.
Maybe in 10 years I might, if I
need fiat cash for some reason.
But I really take a 10 year view
and in my view, and I look at it
at 90, I look at it a hundred, I
look at at 70, I look at it 120.
It's all the same to me because I believe
by 2032 or 2035, we are looking at maybe,
you know, a much stronger price, let's say
500,000 to a million dollars per Bitcoin,
which is only a five x to 10 x from
here, which for Bitcoin is not that big.
So yeah, that's my view of the world.
I don't get shaken by much these days.
Anja: Yeah, same.
I think a lot of people real
really, um, relate to that.
But I also wanted to touch a
little bit on your podcast.
I saw that recently you interviewed,
um, I've just had a brain freeze.
The Senator, um mm-hmm.
Andrew Bragg.
Adam: Mm-hmm.
Anja: And yeah.
What did, what did you think of him?
Adam: I thought he was wishy-washy.
I, I didn't think much of him at all.
Um, not, I mean, I'm not
talking about him personally.
I'm sure he is a very
nice man in real life.
I'm just talking about his politics.
Um, I was, I mean, I left
Australia because I've lost hope
for the future of the country.
And I really, and it was confirmed
in that when I see Australians
absolutely screaming because the middle
class has been hollowed out, right?
Property investors have gotten
rich, and I was one of them.
But it's not good for Australia
to have this pushing to the edges
when young people can't afford
a home, the knock on effects of
housing affordability are massive.
And it's not just young people
complaining about not getting a
house, they're not gonna have kids.
Um, the, the nation itself dies
because housing affordability
gets, people buy into the nation.
The military struggles to recruit people
to defend a country because they don't
feel they've got a stake in the country.
Right?
Um, so it's, it's a, it's a real problem.
Housing affordability.
So we are seeing, um, unfortunately,
um, the rich get richer and the
poor not even having a vote.
Um, the rent becomes an,
an, an institutionalized tax
that they can't get out of.
Um, while the asset holders get richer
and richer, the renters go nowhere
and it's like a tax they can't escape.
Um, and then when I sit opposite
the shadow treasure, uh, the shadow
minister for housing, which is perhaps
the hottest, most painful topic in
the country right now, and he looked
me in the eye and I said, Senator,
you, we've had 1.2 million immigrants
in the last two years into Australia,
which is double the long-term average.
That is 1.2 million people that need
a home in this country, that if the
borders were closed for a minute while
we have this high housing affordability
crisis, we would've 1.2 million
less people that would need a house.
Mm-hmm.
So can you explain to me how you believe
that, that, that, that, that immigration
housing affordability are not linked.
And he, he, I pushed him on it three times
and he said, no, no, it's just an input.
It's not the major driver.
And I'm like, I was banging my head
against a wall and I was like, dude, like,
and he's supposed to be in opposition.
So the public are at a, clearly, at
a state of crisis, he could easily go
after the Labor party for be putting
him, even if the liberals probably
started this train, who knows?
But he could have had one political points
by even saying the populist thing, but
he wouldn't even say the populist thing.
And so in my mind, this is planned.
There, there is a reason for this that is
bigger than the happiness of Australians
and the wellbeing of Australians.
And that is devastating to me.
Anja: Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think a lot of people are
in agreeance with you there.
When you say you think it's
planned, what are your theories
in terms of who's behind?
Like what's the driver of this?
Well.
Adam: You know, I, I don't know.
I'm not as far down the conspiracy
rabbit holes and I don't say
that in a dismissive way, right?
Like I used to say it in a dismissive
way, but the conspiracy theorists
actually have turned out to be right.
They've just been fortune tellers, really.
Um, future tellers, right?
The truth, um, I haven't invested going
down that rabbit hole and I'm not doing it
because it just does not bring me any joy.
It actually makes me quite upset and
it affects my mental health deeply.
And it's why I left, to be honest with
you, is partially why I left because what
the answers I came to is that Australia
has sold out to money and power and, uh,
the, the, the party that is in power, and
I, I say the Labor Party 'cause they're in
power, but I would say the liberal party.
Um, you know, a, any anybody could
have told you who sat down, I've sat
down with Senator Gerard Rennick,
former Senator Gerard Rennick.
We just interviewed him on
our pod again last week.
Gerard Rennick was in the Liberal party.
Um, and if you had a chat with Gerard
Rennick, any logical, reasonable
Australian, I believe, if they had an
hour with Gerard Rennick and an hour
with Peter Dutton, there is no contest
of, in terms of intellect, in terms
of charisma vision if it's no contest.
You know what happened
with Gerard Rennick?
They booted him out of the party, right?
The man that was far more capable
to run that party, they ended up
booting him because he wasn't prepared
to pay the political game, right?
And so the political game
is all about keeping power.
And the, the they what that
once they're out of power.
When you've served 2, 3, 4 election
cycles in opposition, your appetite
for power is ravenous and your
desire to keep it when you have it.
And we have these three year
election cycles in Australia.
It's just this constant fricking circus.
And it doesn't work, in my opinion.
I'm not even sure that
democracy works anymore.
Um, and, uh, because it keeps the
population distracted and stupid
and it puts that, those that need
money next to the money printer,
because the satisfaction right now
in Australia is more than 50% of the
Australian voting populace relies on
the government for their principle
source of income, either through a
government job or a government subsidy.
More than 50% of the voting public.
That means that we have crossed
the, the social Rubicon into
being a socialist country because.
50% of Australians are probably going
to vote for their own best interest.
In other words, whichever politician
says they're gonna give them the most
money in a handout is who's going to win.
So it is the money printer that is
dictating, uh, leadership instead
of morals instead of values.
Um, and that's where, that's where,
um, uh, you know, uh, democracies
break down and, and, uh, sometimes
a, you know, a, uh, a compassionate
dictatorship would work better.
Anja: Yeah.
Or a monarchy, but yeah.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I've been going down some democracy
rabbit holes recently, myself.
And yeah, like looking back at
history, it's not really how democracy
was envisioned by Socrates, um,
to work the way it does today.
So yeah, agree.
There's definitely limitations to how
it is, but I wish I knew that you were
interviewing Gerard Renick, because I
have a lot of questions for the man.
He was always probably one of my
like, top five favorite senators.
There's a lot of things that I agreed
with him on, and I really liked that he
quite agitated the RBA and he would ask
some questions about, you know, reserves
at the Bank of England, gold Reserves at
the Bank of England and things like that.
But then, and he wanted to reform the
banking industry, which, you know,
I, I really respect him for that.
But then when he came to Bitcoin,
he just didn't wanna hear it.
He didn't wanna engage
in, um, public discourse.
He was quite dismissive on,
on um, uh, Bitcoin, Twitter.
And yes, he got attacked
sometimes a bit unfairly as well.
He just kind of doubled down and it kind
of confuses me why a people First Senator
is so dismissive of people First money.
Do you know what I mean?
Adam: Well, it's, it's interesting you
mentioned that because when he was leaving
the studio the first time our studio, I
said, Senator, I wanna send you a gift.
Um, it's a book and I think
you'll get a lot out of it.
Uh, where do I send it?
And he gave me the address.
So I sent him, uh, the Bitcoin
Standard by my friend, Saifedean
Ammous And I said, Senator, I loved
everything that you had to say, and
I absolutely respect your intellect.
Which is why it surprises me that
you haven't understood Bitcoin yet.
And I don't mean that.
I, I say that with the utmost respect,
knowing that you are my intellectual
superior, but I truly don't believe so.
Everybody's on their journey, and I
think in time, uh, he, like many other
intelligent men and women before him
will come to understand Bitcoin and
be an advocate for it, but everybody,
you know, has their own time.
In his case.
I just don't think it's a priority.
Um, I don't think that
it's an ego-based thing.
I think it's just, it's not a priority.
And like many of his generation,
it's probably just a bridge too far
to sort of understand at this stage.
But there'll come a time where he'll
sit down, he'll read a book, um, and
he'll, uh, I think it'll change his mind.
Anja: I hope so.
And I, I hope I'm alive for
that day, if that happens.
I really hope.
Yeah.
I, I would like to see that
kind of turn around in him.
I think he, he would redeem himself in
a lot of people's eyes if he did that.
Um, hint, hint.
But Yeah.
But I'm also really curious.
Sorry, I just lost my train of thought.
Hold on.
Adam: When you think about it, and you
know, you look at Jamie Diamond, you know,
he was on record as saying Bitcoin is
rat poison, and now he's turned around.
So Australia of all countries in the
world is perhaps one of the least
progressive when it comes to Bitcoin.
That's what I was gonna ask you.
So it's so slow.
It is so far behind the rest of the world.
I'm buying a home in
Panama, um, next month.
And, uh, over there public
servants are paid in Bitcoin.
Banks will custody your Bitcoin for you
so when you log into your savings account,
you can see your savings, your checking,
your credit card balance, and your
Bitcoin balance when you log in, right?
It's, it's a different world.
So Australia is just last to
the party because they're one of
the richest countries on earth.
So their need to know is very low
because Australians live under the uh,
idea that their money is safe in banks,
which for the large part it probably is.
Um, but they, but they're now
starting to wake up because they're
starting to feel the pain of
broken money through inflation.
Anja: Yes.
And I wonder as well how that adoption
from here on will pan out in Australia.
Whether it will be like public
led or whether there's gonna
be interested politicians.
'cause there's not been that many so far.
Um, I only know of one MP that
took an interest in reaching out
to the Australian Bitcoin industry
body to learn more about Bitcoin.
But for the large part,
it's not even discussed.
Um, the RBA has made some really
weird statements about it.
Um, they don't understand it then.
Apparently they do.
And what's, you know, what, what
Michelle said that her understanding
of Bitcoin kind of reveals
that she doesn't understand it.
I don't know, again, if
that's her being strategic.
I don't know, like,
it's, it's interesting.
But do you think there's anyone in
Australia that might be more like, who,
if there was gonna be one politician,
who do you think that might be?
If like the first to
take interest in Bitcoin,
Adam: I would say I, I would say probably,
uh, one nation would, would probably be
the most, because one Nation and Barnaby
Joyce and the farmers have a very deep
understanding of what's fair and true.
Um, it, it's innate and I don't think
they're bought and paid for as much
because they're not in power yet.
Um, I think that, you know,
Australia is a, a monopoly of banks.
It is a monopoly of big media.
It is a monopoly controlled
by, um, uh, uh, unions, right?
That is Australia.
It is one big corrupt um, uh, system
where one hand feeds the other
politicians are bought and paid for.
Like Tucker Carlson said it wouldn't
cost much to buy Anthony Albanese.
It just wouldn't.
Right.
Um, and so Australia, you know, the,
the banks are insanely profitable.
Um, why, why would they want Bitcoin?
Like, because it reveals
the fraud that they are.
Right?
Um, so banks are not gonna want Bitcoin.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I, I
think that the, the, the ones that
are most open to it are the ones that
have an inherent sense of fairness,
um, and doing the right thing.
And I, I just haven't seen a lot of that
leadership in Australia, you know, yet.
Uh, apart from, um, you know, I, I think
Pauline and Gerard and a few of the,
um, other younger senators coming up.
Uh, are phenomenal and it, it'll also
be a bit of an age thing, you know,
like, um, the younger generation coming
through understand Bitcoin, they get it.
So it'll just be time.
It will happen.
It is, as Lynn Lynn Elden says,
this train can't be stopped.
And a lot of it is just gonna
be one person talking to another
person, talking to another person.
Um, and sooner or later,
um, truth will win.
Anja: Mm-hmm.
So what would your advice be like if I'm
a young Australian and I'm fresh out of,
you know, university and, uh, get my first
job, is do you really believe that like
saving in Bitcoin would be the best bet
for a young person today in Australia?
Or investing in something else?
Investing at all?
Adam: Yeah.
Yeah.
So for a young person, I think the
first thing you've gotta do is get
this toxic poison out of your head
that because house prices are out of
reach, you don't have a chance anymore.
Now, I'm not saying that that's not true.
I agree with you.
It is true.
The house pricing is unfair.
My mom and dad bought a house
at four times Dad's income,
let alone mom's income.
Mom got to raise the three of us
boys at home and, and dad bought
a house on a single income, which
is wild to think about today.
And today it's like 15 times of
12 times or something like that.
So get that outta your head because I
honestly believe hand on heart, young
people today have more opportunity by
a factor of a thousand or a hundred
than what I had when I grew up.
And what I mean by that is you
have access to incredible knowledge
and education for free, right?
Like you can sit down and listen
to Elon Musk get interviewed
about business, right?
That never happened in my generation.
When you got the Rich List came out as a
printed magazine once a year, and there
was a paragraph that long about somebody's
business activities for the year that
was successful and that was all you got.
And then you had a few books, but
there wasn't anything like that.
And there's, and the exponential,
there's so many young people, I see
'em here in Bali running multimillion
dollar e-commerce businesses from
laptops in cafes in Ubud, right?
Like, that was never a possibility for me.
So you've got enormous opportunity.
Um, I also believe that we live at,
on the doorstep right now, literally
on the doorstep, not the, the,
not the, the, the driveways there
and then the door and the port.
I mean, we are literally.
On the doorstep to the biggest
change in human history with the
emergence of AI and robotics.
And this will be the most disruptive
thing in probably human history.
And whenever there is disruption in
business, there is money to be made.
It means money and resources
move from one place to the other.
And your job is to position yourself in
the middle of that movement like a river.
You need to have a net out.
You need to be the, the guy that catches
the most fish is the one or the girl
with the, with the, the net in the right
river where the most fish are going past.
And so, um, I think Bitcoin is one
because we are seeing also, um,
enormous awareness now coming to how
fragile the global, uh, economy is.
Uh, we saw what happened in, uh, uh, is
it Venezuela now where, oh no, sorry.
Iran.
Um, uh, every Bitcoin owner in Iran
is now a billionaire in Iranian
dollars because the Iranian, uh,
currency collapsed this morning.
And so those who held Bitcoin have a
hard currency that they can convert to
US dollars, they can convert to euros,
they can convert to whatever they else.
If they held it in Iranian dollars,
they are bankrupt today, literally gone.
Your life's work, your savings
technology that the banks in Iran
told you were safe, you stored
your, um, irreplaceable life force.
The abstracted form of your
life is called an energy.
When you get paid is
called money or fiat cash.
You put that fiat cash, which is an
expression of your sacred spiritual time.
You put it in a bank and
they stole it from you.
It's gone.
That is so morally corrupt that it's
beyond words, but those who store
that economic energy in Bitcoin.
They didn't miss a beat and they could
cash in that Bitcoin for unlimited
amounts of, of Iranian money now
because it's actually worth zero.
So, um, anyway, um, so I think not
financial advice, but I, again,
what I said to you earlier, if you
wanna know what somebody believes
in, look at what they invest in.
Do I invest in Australian real estate?
No.
I sold all of my Australian real
estate other than the caravan part
because I own it with a friend.
Um, but I own Bitcoin, I own Tesla,
um, and I own some hotels here in Bali.
Um, well, one, uh, I'm a major
investor in a hotel here and I'm
about to build another hotel here.
Um.
Because I think there's other
opportunities and I, and, and I like
my, uh, income to be derived from real
estate because I believe that people
will always need somewhere to live.
Um, yeah.
And so, uh, and over time
because of money printing, real
estate will continue to go up.
So, uh, I think real estate still
has a place, but whether or not
it's in Australia or other places
in the world is another question.
And for me, Australia was not the place
for me because I could see what was
happening there with the pitchforks
coming out for the rich, the hungry
tax, um, goblins that the government
wanting to just tax, tax, tax, tax,
tax and real estate is an immovable
asset that the Australian government
is addicted to the tax revenue from.
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Anja: Yeah.
And that's kind of the, the depressing
thing about Australia at the moment.
So if you're a young person, is
it better to make your money in
Australia and then look to leave or
just leave sooner rather than later?
Like, I feel like there's a bit of an
exodus, you know, of high net worth
individuals leaving in Australia, which
is interesting because the data actually
shows that we're having more, um, high
net worth individuals coming to Australia.
But anecdotally, the conversations
that I'm having indicate that
people wanna leave or are leaving.
So
Adam: what's so, so, I mean, my,
my thinking for young, if I had
a young person in my life today,
a son or a daughter, uh, in
Australia, I would say this to them.
Um, go.
So a lot of people think that the biggest
investment they ever make is their house.
It's not, it's the government
that you choose to live under.
That's the number one investment.
So if you stay in Australia and you
start a business, you are going to
be in business with somebody that
gives you zero, takes no risk.
Puts no money in, does no work,
and wants 25% of your profits
from at the business level.
And if you make any real money and,
and then wanna withdraw, uh, some
of that 25, uh, you know, business
profits to go and enjoy it for yourself
somehow, that you'll be on subject
to top up tax, up to 47% tax, right?
Uh, in addition to that, you're gonna pay
rates, uh, fines, levies, um, fuel excise.
So when you fill your car up, you
know, 30 or 40% or something of
the fuel that goes into your car.
Pauline Hansen was on my pod not
long ago and she said, Adam, uh,
40% of the price of a new house,
home and land in Australia is taxes.
So just let think, think about
that for a minute, right?
So you've gone and saved your deposit.
You've got tax paid dollars,
and then you buy an asset that's
got 40% tax built into it.
You buy yourself a champagne to celebrate.
You have, uh, alcohol tax, you
know, so it doesn't end at what the
employer takes out of your salary.
So think carefully about where you
are going to live, live frugally,
um, and uh, and work really hard
in, in a tax efficient place.
That's low cost to live.
That's what I would do for
say, 10 years of your life.
And I would do it also for the spiritual
and personal growth points of view.
I've never met somebody who moved and
lived overseas for 10 years and said,
that was the worst thing I ever did.
Yes.
They always, when they come back,
say, oh my God, it changed my life.
It changed everything about
the way I see the world.
And if anything, you'll appreciate
Australia for the many beautiful
things that it has to offer.
But, um, if you live in Australia only,
you have a very limited view of the world.
Um, and uh, and I think that's
really bad for your personal growth.
It's bad for your compassion.
The number of Australians that when I
post about Bali, they go, oh, I'd never
live in that cesspool of a shit hole.
And I'm like, you are such an
entitled arrogant dirt bag.
Like there there's 200 million
beautiful people in Indonesia who are
among the nicest people in the world.
This is their home and they
just shit all over it because
they're so spoiled in Australia.
They're like a good looking man or
woman with a horrible personality.
And um, and that's what in my mind,
Australia has become, we've become
the new America of the world.
Anja: Yeah.
It's interesting you said that because
earlier on today I saw a comment which
was taking a swipe, I don't think at you.
I think it was at Matt Cameron actually.
Yeah.
Which I know you guys know each other
'cause of bull You on Instagram.
Um.
But someone wrote it is like, why is
hating on Australia suddenly a trend?
I don't know.
I'll send it to you so you can see it.
But yeah, basically it's interesting
there, there's always like that
balance between being patriotic
and also being realistic.
It, you can't deny that things have
gotten worse in Australia and everyone
has their breaking point, um, in terms
of how much more they can tolerate.
I, I personally question what my
breaking point is going to be.
Like, I, I came to Australia
with my family in 1997.
Absolutely love the country.
It's beautiful.
It's stunning.
It's given me great opportunities
and I'm forever grateful for that.
Like my life has changed because
of Australia, but then I look
at where it's heading and coming
from an ex-communist country.
It makes me really nervous.
Um, and yeah, I guess I, I don't
know what, what's that going to be?
Things like digital ID and cbdc,
like sets an unprecedented level
of centralized power, which I
have a particular version for.
And it feels like, you know,
it's kind of being rolled out in
the west throughout the world.
I, I think maybe that's gonna be the,
Adam: let me ask you an, 'cause I,
I'm, I'm actually curious myself.
Yeah.
So where were you from?
Anja: Uh, I was born in Croatia
and I'm Serbian Croatian.
So there was that conflict as well.
Adam: Yeah.
Yeah.
So, so when you see Albanese, um,
getting smashed after the Bondi
shootings, um, and his next move is
to try and ban X in Australia, what
does that make you think as somebody
coming from a former communist country?
Anja: I like, I've seen
this played out before.
Before, you know, so I think
that's what, what makes me nervous.
It's like his whole reaction
to the Bondi shooting.
Just seems very disingenuous.
Um, and I think a lot of people are
starting to, to wake up to that.
Like a lot of people that may have been
swing voters are now like, wait a minute.
Like you just can't say certain
words out of political correctness.
And I can understand why
Australians are angry over that.
Um, the fact that he's showing up
and not showing genuine remorse.
Um, I think people can see through that.
Uh, the fact that there's an unprecedented
level of votes to get him out of office.
And every single prime minister since I've
been here has had those, John Howard has
had signatures to have him resign julia
Gillard, Kevin Rudd, um, Tony, um, Abbott.
Abbott, they've all done it, but it's been
in the thousands of the tens of thousands.
And then elbow comes along and
it's like hundreds of thousands
of signatures to get him out.
And just seeing a government, so tone
deaf and blaming extremism and blaming
all these things that aren't the core
issue, it just seems like there's
a lot of gas lighting happening.
And then again, all of these things
that he's trying to implement like
the, the latest bill that he's propo,
that he's proposing for, you know,
the government to become the arbitrary
of what's considered hate speech.
And, you know, he, he, he
defined that in his words.
And just hearing those words, like
it becomes really ambiguous as to
what might be caught in that net and.
Who's going to decide that, and
so's going to be the government.
And the fact that he doesn't like
that he's been put in a bikini
on X is just, I don't know.
It just makes me feel very,
very, um, uneasy again.
Last year he proposed the MAD bill.
Luckily that got shut down.
Like, but the fact that there was even
a line in there saying, you know, you
can't speak up against the Australian
economy or the banking system.
I'm paraphrasing now, but there
was, there was a line like
that that just, I don't know.
There's too many things that are just
making me feel really uncomfortable
and I never thought I would see
Australia come to this point.
Adam: And I, I think Anya, you,
you're hitting on something here.
It's another vector, an important
vector for the listener around Bitcoin.
And I want the listeners to hear that
what Anya and I are discussing here,
this is respectful discourse about
how we feel about our government.
I've already spoken to Matt Cameron.
I've already spoken to Big Chalky,
uh, you know, who's blown up online.
I've spoken with the guy from
Two Worlds Collide podcast.
We've had him on our, on our show.
All of these guys could be deemed
in the government's eyes and indeed
this conversation as defraying the
social order, which I think are the
words that they're trying to pass
through legislation at the moment.
If they assess this conversation to
be, um, defraying, the Social Order
in Australia, we are subject to
arrest, to censorship, to fines right.
Now this is, again, another vector for why
Bitcoin becomes so important because it
operates outside of government control.
So if they wanted to shut you down on
you and, and you didn't have Bitcoin,
they could just freeze your bank account.
I don't know your circumstances, whether
you have kids or kids in school and all
these different things, but of course
when you've got obligations to live.
It's not hard to get an ordinary
everyday person to comply if you
just squeeze the money supply.
Right.
But if, if Anya or me have a hundred
thousand dollars saved in Bitcoin outside
of the banking rails, we are free.
Right?
We can still transact.
We, you know, we can still
Anja: I did, I did actually look at,
um, you know, what it would take to
leave Australia and you, like, of
course it makes sense now in hindsight,
but I was just surprised at how you
get taxed to death on your way out.
And that kind of raised the question for
me, like, who does my life belong to?
Adam: Who does all your stuff belong to?
Anja: Like, am I even
a real person anymore?
Like
Adam: Yeah.
Mm, yeah.
It's, it's pretty crazy.
But it is, it is.
Like what, what Anya's talking
about here is deemed disposal laws.
Um, so when you leave the country, you
have to assess all of your assets, even if
you're not not selling them, and you have
to pay tax on them as if you'd sold them.
So they become a capital events,
capital, uh, gain events.
So your Bitcoin, you establish
what you bought it for, what you,
what it was worth when you exited
and you pay tax on the difference.
So I did all of that to leave Australia.
That's how much I despised the Australian
system, that I was prepared to pay
taxes on all these unrealized profits
so that they can't touch me again.
But now I go to where I'm treated best.
Like Andrew Henderson from
Nomad Capitalist says, go
where you're treated best.
And now I'm a sovereign individual.
My cost of living's through the
floor, my tax is through the floor.
Um, and I live in a place
where people are nice.
Anja: And relaxed.
Adam: And relaxed.
Look, and I like Australia, like I think
Australians when they're at their best
to some of the best people in the world.
But unfortunately, because the
monetary system is broken, we have
a shit government, Australians
are under more pressure than I
can ever remember in my life.
And anybody under pressure
is not their best self.
So when I go home to Australia now,
I see the stress in people's faces.
Um, it, you know, they
can't afford things.
They're just under pressure all the time.
Um, and so that doesn't
make for the best situation.
And of course, I think the other
factor is that a lot of people got
rich by just owning real estate rather
than doing a lot of personal growth.
And I think a degree of arrogance
has crept into Australian, um,
psyche as a result that didn't
used to be there 30 years ago.
We were humble.
Now, you know, so many people have
got, you know, everything because we
were blessed with a real estate boom.
And, you know, so.
Anja: Mm. Yeah.
So do you, do you think there is any
hope for Australia, any hope of reform?
A new government, eh?
Like what would it take?
The only
Adam: time, the only time, Anya,
that we asked this question, we
had an intellectual on our pod
called Ross Cameron, who is on the
outsiders for the A, B, C for years.
Very, very smart Australian.
And we asked this exact question
and he said, I said, what will
it take for Australians to wake
up and for things to change?
He said, rolling power blackouts.
And I was like, oh,
wow, that's interesting.
I didn't see that.
He's like, that's when Australians
life will be actually really disrupted.
Like when their fridges don't
work, there's extended periods
where their power's out.
They're gonna cry for, um, mercy
and, and well, not mercy change.
Um, they'll revolt when it really
interrupts their lives or a banking
collapse, but it's far more likely
we'll have rolled back outs before
banking collapses in Australia.
Probably.
But it's not, you done that in, in short,
it's gonna be pain, like max pain and the
only time it changes when a revolution
happens, and I don't think a revolution's
gonna happen anytime soon in Australia.
Mm-hmm.
Um,
and uh, I believe that this is gonna be
a long, protracted and painful cycle.
I turned 50 a year and a half
ago and I'm like, you know what
people said, oh, you're a deserter.
You left the country.
I'm like, mate, I paid
a lot for my freedom.
I paid a lot of tax when I was there.
I paid all my taxes when I left.
Right.
I paid a lot and so I didn't desert shit.
I'm not there drawing
on your medical system.
I'm not using the little green
card that has Medicare written on.
It's the most expensive card
in any Australian's wallet.
Right.
I don't.
I don't use any of the resources,
and I've decided actively to make the
most of what time I have left in this
life, which is involves opting out of.
I was really active speaking up against
extreme Islam, not against Muslims,
but again, against extreme Islamists.
I was real, I went and
marched in London with Tommy.
I've stopped all of that now because it's
just not optimizing for my mental health.
Anja: Yeah,
Adam: I, you know, I, I get depressed.
It really affects me.
I'm minimizing my
involvement in social media.
I'm building a beautiful home in Bali.
I'm gonna grow some tomatoes.
Um, I'm gonna have slow mornings and
I'm gonna do my very best to be as
conscious as I can and live as an
ethical, as a life as I can and not
get caught in this circus, um, which
is controlled by power and evil men
and women that desire that power.
I just opt out because I'm only here for
maybe a few more decades if I'm lucky.
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Anja: Yeah.
And when you mention that, you know,
there's people that kind of criticize
you for being in desert or have noticed
this interesting dynamic playing out
in Australia quite a bit lately, that
people who are speaking up against the
government or the policies or about
the, the way the economy's run and even
considering leaving or have already left.
Uh, yeah.
Kind of being, um vilified in a way.
And it was interesting i, I had a, a,
a woman called Katie the Russian on,
on my podcast and spoke about like
Plan B passports, which she used to do
for ultra high net worth individuals.
But now you're kind of like, if
you're middle class, if you've got a
million or 5 million, you can start
really considering this as an option.
And even if you don't necessarily have any
intention of moving in the next few years,
having that backup is really important.
Um, but that was the first time
I had someone on that actually
resulted in me losing followers.
And it's, it's saddens me
because I feel like it's such
an important thing to discuss.
Even if you don't agree with it, it's
important to have this discourse.
And this is what again, like some
pe people are so collectivist that
you can't almost say certain things
around them without, you know.
I don't know, like
Adam: their, their weakest piss
is the word you're looking for.
That's,
Anja: that's one weakest piss,
that's one way to put it.
But you know, as someone who has
lived through, you know, what I
did in the nineties, in, in the
breakdown of Yugoslavia, I am
very like pro individual rights.
I want everyone to look after
their own individual interest.
And one thing that I can't unhear after
learning about it, when I spoke to
a guy called Neil Fletcher who wrote
Modern Chains, I learned the concept
of a field slave versus a home slave.
So a home slave would be someone who, um,
perpetuates the cycle of slavery because
they had it good enough and they would
try to keep the field slaves in check
who had much worse working conditions,
even though they were both enslaved.
And that proximity to power gave
them a false sense of, um, stability
that I kind of see this a little bit
in these people who are, you know,
saying like, well, you can't say that
about Australia, or You can't leave.
You need to like stay here and
we must all face the same fate.
Like, no, I know I'm gonna
lose followers for this.
Adam: Anya like, leaving Australia doesn't
diminish your love for the country.
Mm.
Right.
Like, people say to me,
why do you speak up?
Why don't you just shut up because
you are no longer here as if I
don't have a right to speak up
for the country that I love still.
Right?
Like, I'm sure there's a part of you
that loves where you came from still.
Right.
It doesn't, you don't hand in your
right to, to care about a country.
I love the Australia I grew up in.
I love my childhood memories in Australia.
My mom and dad came out on the war after
the war on the, on the As 10 pound poms.
And I'm so grateful that they did.
And the reason I speak up is because
it's so sad to me that it's being lost
at the hands of ambitious power, hungry
evil pieces of shit that are running our
country today that, that, that want to
stay in power more than they wanna provide
for the people that they are charged with.
Caring for.
That to me is evil of the highest order.
And it really pisses me off.
And the, and the, the, the part of
the reason I feel I can say this
more strongly now is 'cause I'm not
there and I'm not in the system now.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not
part of the game.
And so, and, and by stepping outside
of it, you can see things more clearly.
I love Australia, but I love the
Australia, I love the values that we had.
And when I see um, unchecked immigration.
Um, when I see weak policies that are
not pushing back on important things
like the UAE last week announced
that they are banning their citizens.
It's not ban, they're cutting
funding to their citizens.
Normally, if you're a UAE
citizen, you study abroad.
The government will pay for that study.
They cut funding to all UAE citizens going
to the uk to going to UK universities.
Why?
Because they're worried about
them getting radicalized by
radical Islamists in the uk.
This is a Muslim country that is banning
their Muslim citizens from going.
Meanwhile, in Australia, there's outrage
that the council denied an application
for a EMBA mosque to broadcast a call
to prayer across Australian suburbs.
Right.
And it was, oh, we
should accommodate that.
Um, uh, bringing home ISIS brides, you're
talking about the partners of men who
aimed rifles at Australian soldiers and
left Australia to fight the Holy War
and kill us, and then bring them back
home in the plane to live amongst us.
Mm. What the hell is going on?
Right?
That is not protecting the men and
women of Australia that are in uniform
and fighting and dying for our country.
What kind of spit in the face is that?
Mm.
Right.
And it's about time that Australians
started to stand up for that
and it, but I don't see it.
I see this woke lefty
rubbish that's going on.
Constant accommodation and
not enough pushback on, Hey,
this is a Christian country.
If you wanna be in this Christian country.
These are our values.
This is why I spoke up against the
burkas , because the history of
the burka is suppression of women.
It is so that men don't look at women
in a desirous ways in case they do
something, then it's the woman's fault
if they weren't covered in a burka.
Do we as an Australian people
agree with that as a concept?
And if not, why do we allow it?
Right.
And so anyway, that don't get
me started because you see,
I'm getting right up there.
This is what I'm trying to step away from.
I'm getting
Anja: riled up
Adam: and I'm like, I'm trying to just now
live my life in peace and not get involved
in this, because I know that I'll just
get, I'll just get hammered by certain
people and, um, and I just don't care.
I, I'm just like, all right, I'm
just gonna try and live my life
peacefully and just, I, I cannot see
common sense in Australia anymore.
Anja: Yeah, because this ideology makes it
unpopular to say certain things in public.
And that al also became really
obvious when, you know, with the vo,
sorry, with the vote of the voice.
Most people voted against
it yet on LinkedIn.
Um, people that were talking about it
with Provo, and then the results come
out and it's like, you know, there's
a silent majority that feels like if
they say something, they'll be placed
in a box as being right wing or extreme
or racist or this and that, and people
just don't wanna deal with the label.
Um, it's almost like you can't
have a nuanced discussion about
things anymore, and it's just yeah.
Really frustrating.
Um, but yes, I agree.
We, this has been a very, a
very like, intense conversation.
Um.
And yeah, I, I felt myself getting
a little bit spicy before as well
when I was talking about elbow.
You
Adam: won't, you won't, you, you're
not gonna lose followers here.
You're gonna lose the wrong followers.
But when you have your voice,
you're gonna gain your new
audience that will agree with you.
So I've had this on my journey to a
hundred thousand followers on Instagram.
They're all real.
I haven't bought followers at any point.
Um, you know, I lost people at
certain points, but then I added,
you know, two for everyone I lost
when I started speaking up of the
silent majority who were like, no.
So, so don't ever be afraid
to speak your truth on you.
And if you disagree with me,
I could still sit and have a
civil discourse with you, right?
So just keep doing what you're doing.
'cause I agreed to come on your
pod because this actually matters.
You know, you never know
who this will reach.
And so keep doing what you're doing.
This is grassroots
advocacy for your nation.
Anja: Thank you.
I will.
Thank you.
That was really kind of you to say.
Um, but yeah, now I just
thought maybe we'll pivot to
something positive or, or yeah.
There's a lot of, um, crazy things
going on in the world with Venezuela,
with Iran, with the DOJ coming after
Jerome Powell and that chair position,
you know, being up for nomination soon.
It's just a lot of, um, a lot of
uncertainty and yeah, it'll be
interesting to see where I end up.
Adam: How you, okay.
Anja: No,
no, no.
Like I, yeah, it's, there was a
post that you had on Instagram
that I really related to, um, a
few days ago, maybe a week ago now.
Um, where you feeling like
you really wanna slow down?
And yeah, I weirdly feel burnt out from
last year, and I feel like this year
I haven't even had a bit of a reset.
And I'm not that busy.
There's not that much going on, but I
think it's because I'm so involved in
politics and news and things that I think
that's what's draining me at the moment.
So
Adam: I, I don't know you Anya, but I'm
just looking at you and I, I wanna send
you a big hug because, um, I, I can
see in your face how I felt last year.
Mm-hmm.
Like, in all honesty, I was at my wit's
end and I just, um, I didn't know whether
to laugh or cry, but I was exhausted.
Um, but what I would recommend is
just step away from the news cycle
for a minute and go touch some grass.
Get yourself in nature because
it's really, really depressing.
Um, and, uh, it can really consume
your soul and not just for you,
Anya, for anybody listening to
this, both of us, Anya's a great
teacher because she's sensitive.
And these days it's like people
criticize you like you're too
soft or you're too sensitive.
But the best teachers should be sensitive.
The best leaders should be sensitive.
That's not weak.
It's strong, but at times it's hard.
So I just, I just want to see
you and anybody else listening
who's feeling that way.
I want to know that you are.
I want you to know that you
are seen and appreciated for
the work that you're doing.
And it's not easy to give a shit
and to speak up, but just go
touch some grass on your hug.
A tree real?
Yeah, just get away, get away from the
microphone and get away from the speakers
and the phones and all that shit.
'cause it is designed to rile
you up and make you angry.
And the net loss
beneficiary of that is you.
So, you know, there is lots of beautiful,
good things going on in the world as well.
Anja: Absolutely.
And on that note, one of the things that
I'm really passionate about is education.
I always advocate for people
to learn about Bitcoin.
Don't just buy it without understanding
what it is that you are getting.
Um, but do you have recommendations
other than obviously the, uh, the Bitcoin
standard, which you've already mentioned,
like where should be people be starting
if they wanna embark on this journey?
Adam: So, as we sort of alluded to
it throughout this podcast, Bitcoin
has many vectors to the story, right?
There's the social conscience
and the spirituality of Bitcoin.
I love that side of it, right?
You love that side of it.
If that's you, if you are the kind of
person that likes to make money, but
also it kind of matters to you that.
You want to do good and you
wanna understand the moral.
And I think everybody should have
that in them because when times get
hard, it helps with the conviction.
I think a really magic book for that is
called The Tao of Bitcoin, which is TAO,
the Dao of Bitcoin as in the Dao de ching.
And it's a book that reveals the
similarities and alignments between
Bitcoin and the Dao, which is one of
the most sacred books ever written.
Um, beautiful, beautiful book, um, that
I learned about through Wayne Dyer.
So read the Dao of Bitcoin.
Uh, the Bitcoin standard is for just
hardcore analytics, understanding
why Bitcoin is superior money, why
it is superior savings technology,
um, and the big print by Larry Lapard
that's talks about the, uh, why
Bitcoin is the ultimate hedge against,
uh, fiat money, which is, um, just
printed and made up out of thin air.
And then of course there's a
whole range of Bitcoin vo voices
I think that you should listen to.
Um.
Jeff Booth, Michael Sailor, you
know, all the usual suspects.
Just start watching them and
YouTube will start serving to you.
Uh, people like that.
Adam Livingston is a new voice that
not a lot of people haven't heard yet,
but Adam Livingston is phenomenal,
particularly if you're a younger person.
Um, he is a former world champion debater.
Uh, he has a brain, like a steel trap.
Like I listen to the guy and I
just feel dumb that he's funny and
he's smart and he's successful.
So yeah, listen to those and if
you can get along to a Bitcoin
event, the bigger the better.
So one of the best events I went
to is Prague, but they have Bitcoin
in Las Vegas, Bitcoin and Prague.
Bitcoin in Sydney, I think it's
called, um, Bitcoin life or something.
Mm-hmm.
Get into a room full of Bitcoiners and
it will forever change you because you'll
turn up and you go, these are my people.
Right.
These are my people.
They're morals, they're intelligent.
Um, they're rebels.
If that's your jam.
Uh, and a lot of 'em are
rich, so get around them.
Anja: Yeah.
I love that.
And this is, this is what I love
about Bitcoin is in Australia.
Like quite often when I go to these
meetups, there's people that are
quite wealthy in the room, but you
would never tell because they're so
humble, they're so down to earth.
You know, I can have a better conversation
with a Bitcoin boomer than I can
someone my age out in the street.
You know, like there's just,
there's just that alignment there.
Yeah.
But thank you so much
for coming on the show.
I love to have you on.
Um, yeah, it's been amazing.
Adam: My pleasure.
Let me know when it's out and I'll,
um, share it on my socials for you and,
and try and help you channel along.
Anja: Yay.
Thank you so much.
Adam: Pleasure.
Cheers.
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