The Truth In Love podcast will present God's timeless truth through the lens of His amazing love. We will do this not only through stories of people who have experienced His peace, love, strength, and wisdom through tough circumstances, but also by endeavoring to give the Bible’s answer to life’s great questions, like: Who is God, what's my purpose, who am I, how can I know God, what is heaven and hell, what is truth, and why is the Bible's truth better than my own version of truth? These are legitimate questions folks ask, and we as Christians should have the answers! God has a magnificent plan for every person. We are thrilled to be part of discovering and sharing what His Word reveals to bring hope, peace and great love into the hearts of all humanity. Join us every Tuesday morning at 5:00 a.m. CST for The Truth in Love podcast, with your host Kimberly Faith
Welcome to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts, Kimberly Faith and John Mack. The Truth in Love podcast seeks to present God's timeless truth through the lens of his remarkable love.
Kimberly Faith:Welcome back to the Truth in Love podcast. And, here with my cohost, John McLarty, John Mack.
John McLarty:Well, it's great to be here, Kim. We always we always have an interesting discussion when we get together.
Kimberly Faith:It's always good. And just as you pray that the Holy Spirit will guide this discussion, I think it's super important. Back in October on 10/28/2022, we published a devotional on the gofacestrong.com, and it was titled, do you know the critical difference between the judgment seat of Christ and the great white throne judgment? And as I was, looking at our website analytics, I had noticed that this devotional had more hits on it than almost any other devotional.
John McLarty:That's interesting.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. And and it was like the holy spirit was just, like, saying, you know, this is an this is an important topic. People are interested to understand the end. And, you know, no one likes to talk about judgment, but the fact is these two judgments are one is one of dread. You know, really, one, the the when we'll talk about the great white throne judgment being for unbelievers, people who have not been born again, and the judgment seat of Christ can either be viewed with dread if you haven't lived loving the lord your god with all your heart, soul, and mind, or it can be a really exciting thing.
Kimberly Faith:It's like a time of reward. You know?
John McLarty:The judgment seat of Christ.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. The judge
John McLarty:the great white throne.
Kimberly Faith:Right. The judgment seat of Christ. Yeah. Exactly. That.
Kimberly Faith:Exactly. So it it's it's so good to give people this truth. And and for me, it was good for me to study this and to understand what I have to look forward to, but also give me a great, just a concern for the horror, the great horror that lies before someone who does not know Jesus Christ as their lord and savior. And so having having said that, if if someone asked you just just generally, you know, what does it mean to be a believer and thus escape the great white throne judgment, which is the judgment of unbelievers so that people understand the distinction?
John McLarty:Well, to me, it just goes back to, our testimony, and becoming a believer was, finding Christ, finding the solution to our anxiety. And the Bible tells us that, the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:So we when we send as as, you know, beyond the age of accountability, so beyond a certain age, not infants. But
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:When we knew we were sinners. And, that happened to Lynn and I on the same day, my wife, now fifty years. So that was just, transitional in our life, and it was finding to me, Kim, it's so interesting because I did find heaven and escape hell, the the judgment, that final great
Kimberly Faith:white Great white judgment. Yeah.
John McLarty:But at the time, it was finding a relationship with God. Yeah. But it resulted in being born again and accepting Jesus as my savior, asking forgiveness for my sins
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:Due to the work he did on the cross Right. And and finding him being born again and then, finding that relationship with him and thereby escaping this white throne of judgment where we'll discuss the consequences of that.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. You know, you you, I guess we probably should start by saying the great white throne judgment is a judgment of people who are spiritually dead, and the judgment seat of Christ are is a judgment for those who have been born again. And, in the in the devotional, you know, I I kind of broke it down a little bit what it meant to be an unbeliever or somebody who was not born again, somebody who's not spiritually alive. You know, in our concept study in body, soul, and spirit, we talk about, you know, human design, how we have we can be a person who is physically alive, but spiritually dead, physically dead and spiritually dead, or physically dead and spiritually alive. Right?
Kimberly Faith:There's these these different, these different and spiritually alive and spiritually I'm sorry. Spiritually alive and physically alive. Right? There's these four states. And, but we also talk about unbelievers being those who deny the existence of God, those who are working their way to heaven and seeking to be justified by their own works as opposed to by faith through by grace through faith, or are trusting in some combination of grace and works, which by definition is impossible
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:In order to justify themselves before God. Because it's kinda like, you know, in the in the great white throne judgment, the issue before the court is going to be, are you born again or are you not? Right. That's the only issue.
John McLarty:Yeah. And I think we need to point out that we use the term believer. So we're not talking about merely believing there is a god.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:Because, I'll tell you the majority of humans, all over the world believe there is a God, a creator. Right. But we're talking about believing in the sense of trusting. And back when I've referred to asking Jesus to be my savior
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:When I did that, I believed that he did it.
Kimberly Faith:Yes.
John McLarty:And it's that that's trusting, that confidence. Right.
Kimberly Faith:It's the difference between knowing the chair exists and then sitting in the chair. Right?
John McLarty:Exactly.
Kimberly Faith:And and Jesus said that, you know, many are gonna say to me in that day, lord, lord, having that done done all these things, even raise the dead or cast out devils or whatever. He says, I've never knew you. So just we wanna make this clear that the the delineation between whether you're gonna be standing before the in the great white throne judgment or the judgment of believers is whether this transaction with Jesus took place and you accepted the free gift of salvation by grace be faith.
John McLarty:Right. So when we use the phrase the term believers, we're talking about those that have specifically asked Jesus to be their savior and trusted that he did it.
Kimberly Faith:That's right.
John McLarty:Believed in him, not just believing generically that a god exists.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:I think that's important.
Kimberly Faith:I think that's it's
John McLarty:critically important.
Kimberly Faith:It's it's critical because it is the difference between life and death literally. And we talk about, you know, both these judgments, we're talking about they happen after our physical life is over. So that that is what they have in common. Right?
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:And, but let's let's just start with the great white throne judgment, which is the judgment of unbelievers. And let's kinda get into the when, why, what, and where about about this. First of all, do you wanna read, Daniel twelve one and two, which is Sure. Okay.
John McLarty:So Daniel twelve one and two, at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people, and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was seen before. The since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time, your people shall be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Kimberly Faith:You know, we're we're gonna read also, in Revelations 20 because I think it's important. A lot of people do not understand that the old and the new testament both are they they preach the same gospel. They preach the same judgment. So let's I'm gonna read, Revelations twenty eleven to 15. They wanna use
John McLarty:Before you do that, let me just Yeah. I'll just mention something that's really gives me pause, and it's everlasting contempt.
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:It's everlasting. That separation from God due to sin, if it's not resolved, it's an everlasting separation from God. We don't cease to exist. Right. We we'd live in that state forever.
Kimberly Faith:Right. Yeah. And that's, let's just talk about that, and then we'll read Revelation. You know, one of the devotionals we did several years ago is what is hell? You know?
Kimberly Faith:Because you hear all kinds of people have their opinions about what hell is. But you have hell on earth. You have hell forever. I'm gonna be in hell with my buddies. You you're all kinds of aspects of what people believe hell is.
Kimberly Faith:But the fact is, hell is separation from the presence of God, and, well, we can experience some of that on earth.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:You know? Even as Christians, when I feel like I my my walk with God is not where it should be, I'm experiencing a degree of hell. Now the difference, a huge difference is if you're an unbeliever unbeliever and you've never been born again and you are judged guilty at the Great White throne judgment, that's gonna be, like you said, forever and ever and ever. Your soul and spirit are going to live in hell, tortured by the absence of the presence of God forever and ever and ever.
John McLarty:That's a horrible thought.
Kimberly Faith:It's a horrible thought. In, Revelations twenty eleven to 15, it says, then I saw a great white throne and him who sat on it from whose face the earth and heaven fled away, and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, talking about the spiritually dead, small and great, standing before God, and the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the and the dead were judged according to their works by the things which were written in the books, and the sea gave up the dead who were in it.
Kimberly Faith:And death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them, and they were judged each one according to his works. Then death and Hades were cast into the lake of the fire a fire. This is the second death, and anyone not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. You know, the the thing I immediately think of is the religions that are work works based.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:I mean, your works will be judged, but you will always be found lacking because of the nature of God and his justice and righteousness and the way that that that is measured in the balance. Because the Bible says our righteousness is as filthy rags.
John McLarty:That's Isaiah sixty four six.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. So who are gonna be judged?
John McLarty:All the all the all that have sinned.
Kimberly Faith:All, yeah, all the dead. Right?
John McLarty:Dead because sin causes death.
Kimberly Faith:That's right. And and it's it's it's so interesting how people are Christians are not taught this human design, and and you have to know human design to understand the bible. Because if you don't understand body, soul, and spirit, and the fact that each of them has a life and each of them has a death, then this these verses don't make sense. Is that is that fair?
John McLarty:Yeah. And it's that's really, really important because you go back to, Satan, attacking the the word of God back in the in the garden where God said in the day the you eat, thou shalt surely die. Mhmm. And, Satan challenged that.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:But they did eat and they did die. Well, they didn't physically drop over.
Kimberly Faith:Right. Let's
John McLarty:say that they were separated from God.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:And that happened actually spiritually, but then it was kinda symbolically, they let they left the garden, the presence of God. Yes. But so it was it was a picture of what had already happened spiritually. Right. So death, separation from God, but we can still be physically alive.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:Right. And that
John McLarty:needs to be cleared. I think I think we've made it clear.
Kimberly Faith:And and it's it is so important, to understand if if, you know, the for listeners who heard, last week's podcast, an interview with Janice Champagne, she did a really, really good job explaining her health before she found Jesus. Just this complete emptiness. She had tried so many things, and it was just it was driving her to just I mean, to no end, to find the truth. And even when she found the truth, she resisted it because the the world had such a hard a hold on her. And it just it's so incredible how much death permeates our culture.
Kimberly Faith:The the culture of death. You know? Like, first of all, this is all there is to live it up. Right? And when even when life eternal life is presented to us, there's so many forces, spiritual warfare that works against us actually understanding and believing the truth.
John McLarty:I think something Jenny would have experienced and and, Lynn and I and all of us really in one way or another is that separation from God, there's a there's a hole. There's something missing.
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:And then we try to fill that.
Kimberly Faith:Yes.
John McLarty:Because we have anxiety that something's missing, and then we try
Kimberly Faith:Everything.
John McLarty:Be the hippie lifestyle. It might be the the rich jet set lifestyle.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:It might be the party lifestyle. Right. We're trying to fill that anxiety.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. And so that anxiety is for the dead in Christ is going to last for eternity. And that is so tragic and does not need to happen. And then when is this judgment, the great white throne judgment?
John McLarty:It's after, the millennial the millennial. Right?
Kimberly Faith:Right. Which is kind of outside the scope of this of this, discussion, but just just kinda giving people perspective about when these things happen. And the record is kept in the books in the book of life. Right? You know, it's interesting.
Kimberly Faith:We the the works. Some people say, well, it's it's hell hotter for some people than others. Right? I don't know the answer for sure to that question. I think there the bible does talk about worse condemnation for for some than others.
Kimberly Faith:But, honestly, I don't know. Do you have a a do you know the answer to that? I think
John McLarty:there's indications that it'll be worse for some people. I think there's reference of that. Like Hitler that mistreated children Right. It's gonna be worse than a millstone hung around their their neck.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:So there it's all separation from God, but but, I think there could be degrees of hell. Yeah.
Kimberly Faith:I I don't I don't know the answer to that, but we know that we know that one thing for sure, your works don't get you to heaven. It's only grace. And
John McLarty:And you don't wanna be there.
Kimberly Faith:Right. And what's interesting at the great white throne judgment, your works aren't really what's being judged. It's are you in the book of life or are you not? And then maybe the works are judged with regard to, you know, if you were Hitler, is there a hotter play is there a worse place for you than if you were maybe, somebody who just didn't ever understand the gospel and but lived a pretty good life?
John McLarty:So it's it's really simple. All of sin, sin brings spiritual death, and then the only remedy is to be born again
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:To have new life, and that's from accepting Jesus Christ as our savior.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. And, you know, one of the things that I I I appreciate you saying that because it's the when when I explain the gospel to people, one of the biggest struggles and, actually, Jeanne had, in the last podcast, also talked about this, is is whether we are going to give up our old lifestyle and what we're going like, she explained the struggle. Actually, it was just so beautiful. If you haven't heard the last podcast, you will not regret listening to it. It is just the most beautiful story, I think.
Kimberly Faith:Just testimony wise, one of the most powerful testimonies I ever heard. But she was describing how, on one hand, the Lord was pulling her and drawing her to him. On the other hand, she was afraid of what Dennis would think and whether he you know, she would be separated from her. If he if she decided to follow Christ, would would that cause a big rift in their marriage? You know, kinda like what mom mom described that a little bit in our her testimony.
John McLarty:Fortunately for mom, we were saved the same day.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:She experienced that within a four to five hour period. My salvation was just a slam dunk.
Kimberly Faith:Right. Right.
John McLarty:Just and fortunately Well, she she for some reason, I'd thought it through. I I I'm just glad I just
Kimberly Faith:She heard that
John McLarty:repented Right. From, you know, within four or five hours after the holy spirit. Well, she was described dumb dunking me.
Kimberly Faith:She was describing this this pulling of both ways. Right? And I think everybody experiences that. It's like, do I really wanna give up in whatever you're holding on to? Right?
Kimberly Faith:Whether that be a a spouse or whether that be a job or a lifestyle or, you know, your I know for me, it was basically giving up my own will because I thought, oh, god's gonna let me do something I don't wanna do. You know? That was my big hang up. But she said there was this moment where the pulling stopped, and it was just a decision, just her and God. And it was like, god stopped the war and gave her a moment where she could surrender.
Kimberly Faith:Totally get that. That's exactly what happened to me. And, you know, when when especially when people are praying for you. You know? I mean, Jeannie told me that later, she found out all these people at church have been praying for her salvation.
Kimberly Faith:You know? And so as Christians, as people who are born again, you know, this eternal condemnation, which is the result of the great one, everyone standing in front of the judge on the Great White Throne judgment is already condemned, and it's going to be billions of people. Right.
John McLarty:No one is let off. No one's case is
Kimberly Faith:No. You don't win that case. Successful. That's right. You don't win.
Kimberly Faith:Nobody wins that case because it was lost right after you died physically and without Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. So this is this is not the court you wanna end up in. This is not and if you all are listening to this and you are not 100% certain that you know Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, I would encourage you to if you don't understand know, how to how to do that, if you need to know if you have questions about that, we have a whole page on the gift of salvation on gofaithstrong.com. And we want or reach out to us. You know?
Kimberly Faith:I mean, there's people that we get emails from that wanna know how to be saved, have questions, reach out to us. This is this decision is an eternally significant decision.
John McLarty:Right. If you have any questions, get that settled.
Kimberly Faith:Get that settled now. And it's not it's not like you you know, if you know you're a sinner, most people already know that. Right? They don't like to hear about it, but they most people know they're they've been wrong at least once in their life. Right?
John McLarty:Correct.
Kimberly Faith:And most people understand that if hurt if you'll be listening to this website or listening to this podcast or if you've been in church, if you've heard the gospel that Jesus paid it all. He died on the cross to save the save us from the sin, and he paid for the sin of every human that has ever lived, ever will live, is living now for every sin they've ever committed and ever will commit. That just blows my mind, but he can't do that because he's God. And that he offers us this gift of salvation. He holds it out in his nail scarred hand and says, if you will accept this and accept me as lord and savior and the lordship part is just as important as the savior part.
John McLarty:True repentance.
Kimberly Faith:True repentance. I will save you forever.
John McLarty:And once that and as that happens, it is forever.
Kimberly Faith:It is forever.
John McLarty:It's it's then and there forever.
Kimberly Faith:That's right.
John McLarty:You now have eternal life.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. John three sixteen. How it works. Presently possess everlasting life. And if it's not presently possessed, it never was everlasting to begin with.
Kimberly Faith:That's just a very logical conclusion you can draw from that verse. Right? Am I saying that right? Right. Yeah.
Kimberly Faith:So, so we just you know, we didn't we always never we never know what we're gonna do on this podcast except we have a general idea, but that this the gospel's important.
John McLarty:And that does kinda bring it that that conclusion brings us into this next adjustment seat of Christ. So some would say, oh, now you have eternal life. It's fixed.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:So just go and live your life. Right. No. Number one, we our desires have changed. Our want to's have changed.
Kimberly Faith:Yes.
John McLarty:But then now as Christians, we have this great adventure, this great task, this great ministry ahead of us, and we're actually judged at the judgment seat of Christ Right. For how how well we do and for our salvation.
Kimberly Faith:And that could be good. That can be something we look forward to.
John McLarty:It can.
Kimberly Faith:You know, I don't want the word that your judgment kind of kind of conveys this this dark foreboding kind of thought that we are like, oh, we're gonna be judged. But, man, you know, if if you do really good, then you wanna be judged. You know? If you're doing really well and I think about this verse in second Corinthians five nine and ten, it says, Paul says, there we make it our aim, whether present or absent, do we well pleasing to Christ to him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body according to what he what he has done, whether good or bad.
John McLarty:Yeah. We've got to emphasize this is not for salvation anymore.
Kimberly Faith:That's right.
John McLarty:This is a judgment seat of Christ that Christians come before, and there it it's it's kinda like a I hate to minimalize it, but it's kinda like a job evaluation.
Kimberly Faith:How well did you do? Right.
John McLarty:And then if you did well, you know, I think we're we're gonna explore this. But this to me, the simple is the simple take on this is when we face Jesus, do we want him to say good job
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:A good and faithful servant Mhmm. Or I gave you so many opportunities
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:And you didn't lead this person to Christ or you did not do this or that disappointment.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. And as like your
John McLarty:not not our salvation on the line, but just how well we served the one who gave everything
Kimberly Faith:for us. Everything for us. And and I think we have we have to in order to do well in this race, you know, Paul talks about fighting the good fight, finishing the race, keeping the keeping the faith, and they're being laid up from him a crown of righteousness, which the righteous judge will give to me on that day. Right? And that's in, second Timothy four seven through eight.
Kimberly Faith:When we think about our life, the life when we're born again, the life that Christ gives us, it's like a great treasure. Right? It's a great treasure. If you have $5,000,000 in the bank and you never spend 1 dime, what good is the treasure?
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:And and the person who gave you the treasure, what kind of steward are you of that?
John McLarty:And there is a stewardship in this, you know, the parable of the steward. What did you do with what I gave you?
Kimberly Faith:That's right. And and as Christians, man, we we're all gonna stand here before the judgment seat of Christ. So it's all gonna happen. It's gonna happen. Every believer.
Kimberly Faith:Right? And, you know, I I don't know about you, but I think the biggest challenge for me in learning to do well in this race, to be a good employer I like the way you put an employee. The way it's a good way to put it. I like that. Is to get God's perspective on life.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:You know? Because when I have his perspective, then I'm thankful, then I'm pure in heart, then I see people the way he sees people. And I love him so much that don't wanna do anything but serve him.
John McLarty:That's really interesting because I'll I'll chase that idea a little bit. When we had a a restaurant temporary, very about two years. But we talked about employees, and they're the employees that just had kind of the employee mentality. They're watching the clock. Mhmm.
John McLarty:They saw a spill on the floor. They hope somebody else would say it and clean it up. And they usually didn't last very long.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:But if someone had what we call an owner's mentality, they would show up five minutes early. They kinda had the owner's perspective. If there's a dirty spot on the floor, a spill, they would go clean it up because they wanted the business to be successful. Yeah. And that and they immediately got within if they were like that for a week, they got a raise.
John McLarty:Yeah. We noticed that. Yeah. And that's the that's the interesting you said, the god the owner perspective. God's the creator owner.
John McLarty:Right. So to have his perspective.
Kimberly Faith:And it's it's interesting because I'll I'll chase that rabbit a little bit too because it's it's really very important to what we're talking about. Most Christians, I think, have the hired servant. Mhmm. You know, the first attitude you're talking about. Like, oh, this isn't really my job.
Kimberly Faith:I'm just here to make my money. Right. I'm using God. I'm using God to have my more comfortable life. Right?
Kimberly Faith:I'm I'm using God. I've got myself salvation secured. I'm gonna do the bare minimum, but, really, I'm just trying to get by with as least amount of suffering as possible and as much enjoyment out of life. That's such a loser perspective because you are the one who's losing. You're losing, and other people that you could be affecting for eternity are also Right.
Kimberly Faith:Maybe eternally losing.
John McLarty:Because God wants us to have the abundant life. That's right. Him, and it it can be so wonderful. Yes. Yes.
John McLarty:And we go back to the the world that we lose that.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. And and, you know, whether we like it or not, you know, first Corinthians, three makes it makes it clear that if we build on the foundation of Jesus Christ with, you know, wood, hay, straw, it's going to be judged and burned up. But if we are building gold, silver, precious stones, when that fire tests our works, it's going to endure. And, you know, the the the crazy thing is that we as stewards, we are stewards of the gospel. Right.
Kimberly Faith:There's this is like having the cure for cancer and never sharing it with anybody.
John McLarty:I think it's real key for our, the listeners to go to that's out of first Corinthians three eleven through 15, and it talks about being judged for our works Mhmm. And receiving a reward or not be things being burned up. But it says if anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved. Yet though it's by fire. So it just doubles down.
John McLarty:We're not talking about salvation.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:But we are talking about this evaluation, this judgment seat of Christ, and rewards are not rewards. And we don't know exactly what that looks like. Right. But to me, one of I just people wonder about that and speculate, but to me, you just go back to just having Jesus Mhmm. Come up to you.
John McLarty:Maybe somebody you've led to the Lord.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. That's what I think about. Yeah. Because, you know, the only thing that lasts forever on this whole earth is the souls of people. And and to me, there's no greater thought in my mind of a reward than even just one person coming up to me in heaven and saying, do you remember when you drove back in two miles down the road and said, I didn't I was supposed to give you this track and I didn't do it, but God would not let me have peace until I gave this to you.
Kimberly Faith:I read that tract, and I got saved.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:And I'm here today, and, actually, I led my children to the Lord. And I you know? And then their life was impacted by your life. Man, that's just that one degree difference in your path changed the trajectory of somebody else and many other people's lives.
John McLarty:We we have no idea That's right. That looked like
Kimberly Faith:That's right.
John McLarty:Until and the but we could we could see that. I think of the song. It's thank you for giving to the
Kimberly Faith:Lord. I love that
John McLarty:song. About, you know, a Sunday school teacher.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:Child comes up, and you were my Sunday school teacher.
Kimberly Faith:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think that we
John McLarty:That's a good way to view this reward. It's not like, oh, you can you're getting a lot of gold and silver and Right. A special pallet room in the palace.
Kimberly Faith:Right. I mean and we don't even I mean, honestly, we we God gives us physical examples so we can understand things. But when you think about the perspective that the only thing that lasts beyond this earth are the souls of people Right. That's what you wanna see. You know?
Kimberly Faith:And I also like, first Corinthians four, where it talks about, that we are, servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. And it talks about it's required that we be found faithful. You you know, Paul was saying, look. I don't even you you think it's a big deal for me to be judged in the court human courts. Right?
Kimberly Faith:He said, I'm not even a judge myself because I don't really know anything. Paul was so humble about what he actually knew. Right? And he says, I'm not justified by this, but he who judges me is the lord. Therefore, judge nothing before the time until the lord comes, who will bring both the light to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the heart.
Kimberly Faith:Then each one's praise will come from God.
John McLarty:That's great.
Kimberly Faith:Can you even fathom the God who created everything praising your works?
John McLarty:Let's tell the first Corinthians chapter four. Yeah. I love the heart of Paul more and more. Yeah. His heart toward God and others.
Kimberly Faith:Right. Right. I think I I I don't know. I think this you know, when we talk about the judgment, seat of Christ, you know, we don't really know we know who's gonna be judged, right, all believers. It's really not clear to me about when this judgment is.
Kimberly Faith:I think it's obviously sometime after the rapture, but before the marriage supper of the lamb. You do you agree with that? Is that
John McLarty:Yes. It could be after the rapture and before the marriage supper of the lamb because I think it involves some positions in the millennial reign of Christ. Mhmm. We're going to rule and reign with him.
Kimberly Faith:Yes.
John McLarty:So you just think, well, what does that mean rule and reign?
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:And, you know, again, we're not in it for that. Like, I wanna be a ruler, but it says, you know, the the first shall be last and the last shall be first.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:So I just I I think it's fun to speculate on that.
Kimberly Faith:Right. But I
John McLarty:think, there's a lot we don't know. In the millennial reign, we'll do something we really enjoy. Like Yeah. I think you said you wanted to be an architect.
Kimberly Faith:I do. I think we'll be done.
John McLarty:To be able to sing harmony.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. I think those will both be in heaven. It's on some level. Right? We we're definitely not gonna have any lawyers in heaven, I would think.
Kimberly Faith:Well, I would think not anyway.
John McLarty:We have the we have the one judge. That's exactly right.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. And and, you know, the the role of works in in, the the the judgment of, of the believers is, you know, denial of rewards or, receipt of rewards. Right. Right? And and, again, I know we talk about we don't really know what that looks like, except I do know.
Kimberly Faith:I do know without a doubt that I think the most amazing reward will be seeing people that you had a hand in, whether it was planting a seed or whether it was actually leading somebody to Christ or it was discipling somebody. You know, carrying out the great commission has so multifaceted. We really just take a great take care of comfort in just planting the seeds, doing what we're supposed to do today and not worrying about, you know, being somebody's holy spirit leading them to Christ. You know? And and, you know, I think that this is the court we wanna end up in, but the this you know?
Kimberly Faith:And and what's so incredible is that to get there, to get to this judgment, meaning the the the judgment of believers, we have one thing we have to do, and that is to receive Jesus Christ, our lord and savior.
John McLarty:We have to be saved and have to have escaped the great fire of judgment.
Kimberly Faith:That's right. That's right. And, you know, the bible, we've we've I'm glad we spent some time talking about salvation because I think I think you talked about earlier, you talked about how when we are saved, we don't just have eternal life, but we also have an abundant life here. We can't have the ability to do that. And what for for people who are listening to this podcast, if you are born again believer, but you you do not you are not experiencing the abundant life, I would just you know, I get it.
Kimberly Faith:I have lived there. I have lived as a born again believer and been very restless and anxious and afraid and dissatisfied with my life. And that whole, plethora of of of thinking and lifestyle was all because I had not learned to fall in love with God.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:You know, where you know, the Bible says in Romans five one, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our lord Jesus Christ. That's not just eternal peace. We also have peace right now and love and joy and goodness and kindness and gentleness and meekness when we incorporate beatitudes of Jesus, of being poor in spirit, merciful, meek, right, we we hate sin.
John McLarty:The beatitudes.
Kimberly Faith:The beatitudes. Right? So, and then we don't walk around like we we feel condemned either because Romans eight one says there is now no condemnation in in for those who are in Christ Jesus. The problem is a lot of our as as Christians, we are in Christ Jesus, meaning we are born again, but we walk around like we're out of Christ Jesus. You know?
John McLarty:Well, it's so interesting. You think about the judgment seat of the cross, and if the the verse that says the first will be last and the last shall be first. Mhmm. And, you know, we're supposed to be servant leaders.
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:If we if somebody listened to this, cleared ourselves, and we go, oh, great. I'm great. I want all these rewards in the judgment seat of Christ.
Kimberly Faith:Right.
John McLarty:We probably won't get them. But if we just serve God
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:And I I think of, we won't read it, but in, first Corinthians 13, it's, you know, though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity the love of God, it profiteth me nothing.
Kimberly Faith:Mhmm.
John McLarty:So this this service, this doing well in the judgment seat of Christ comes from a a true heart.
Kimberly Faith:Yes.
John McLarty:It's it comes from the beatitudes. It'd be perfect
Kimberly Faith:to study. Right.
John McLarty:If you live the beatitudes the best we can Right. You'll do well in the judgment seat of Christ.
Kimberly Faith:Absolutely. I'll I'm so glad you brought that up, dad, because I think that that first Corinthians 13 obviously is very powerful. It talks about our motivation.
John McLarty:Right? Right. Our motivation.
Kimberly Faith:We do. True. And and, you know, it's like in a marriage. If you are doing nice things for your for mom because you have to, Doesn't even mean the same. It's you're losing out, and she's losing out.
Kimberly Faith:But if you're doing nice things for mom because you love her and you wanna serve her, then you both win. It's the same with our relationship.
John McLarty:Great example. Yeah. And A a marriage relationship. When you think of a wife that just is serving just because the husband's so awful when he loses his temper. Right.
John McLarty:That's not, you know, the best motivation. Well, it's fear. Both ways. It's fear.
Kimberly Faith:Yeah. And the Bible says perfect love casts out fear, and God is perfect love.
John McLarty:So that's not that's not how we should be serving God is out of fear.
Kimberly Faith:Well, and thank you for bringing up the the beatitudes. We've studied this. We've got podcasts on it. We've got we're coming out with a workbook on it. And the thing that you know, a lot of and the reason one of the reasons we wrote we've done this is because so many Christians have asked me, I'm sure you get the same thing, how do I fall in love with Jesus?
Kimberly Faith:How do I, you know, learn to, to be, to to sense his presence? Well, I mean, there's the developing the mind of Christ through reading his word in in in, like, the concept study. Right? But when we understand the attitudes of Christ that he was teaching us and we practice those, like, you know, I I swear every time I learn something new like this, like, you know, like our study on affliction we did, thankfulness and affliction, God just says, okay. Here's a test now, you know, and I'm grateful, but it's but, man, when you start learning how to apply being poor in spirit, which just means completely depends upon God, it's a game changer.
Kimberly Faith:It's an attitude changer.
John McLarty:Right.
Kimberly Faith:And it produces good works all around you. You don't have to manufacture
John McLarty:to manufacture them. Yeah. It comes out of the heart that's close to the Lord wanting to serve him. Right. And, you know, part of that's being in his word and a a good strong prayer life.
Kimberly Faith:Absolutely. Which is what we're gonna talk about in the next podcast, this thing called prayer that we've been practicing this year, and we're gonna bring mom in on that.
John McLarty:That will be great.
Kimberly Faith:Yes. So, we hope that this this podcast explaining the difference between the great white throne judgment and the judgment seat of Christ has been helpful to you, but we mostly wanna encourage you that whichever whether you're born again or you're not born again, man, you have so much to gain by being in Christ that
John McLarty:Everything to gain.
Kimberly Faith:Everything to gain here and in eternity. Get that right today, and, thank you so much for joining us. Dad, thank you. That this was just a great discussion, and thanks for It
John McLarty:was great, Kim.
Kimberly Faith:Always great. Y'all have a great week.
Jacob Paul:You've been listening to the Truth in Love podcast with your hosts, Kimberly Faith and John Mack. To discover more answers to the big questions in life, visit us at gofaithstrong.com.