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This week on the podcast Mikki speaks to naturopath Erin O’Hara about a resilient immune system. Erin chats about her early years as a professional athlete before switching gears and diving into natural health and naturopathy. Mikki and Erin chat about signs of a robust versus struggling immune system, whether there is such a thing as ‘boosting’ your immune system and what foundational lifestyle and supplements exist to support immunity.
Erin O’Hara combines her knowledge of Naturopathy and Science to provide an integrative and evidence-based approach to wellbeing. She has been involved in the Health and Wellbeing Industry for about 20 years through extensive University study (BSc and BNatMed), scientific research, and an intrinsic passion for health & wellbeing.
Her functional medicine approach addresses the underlying causes of disease through extensive testing and looking at the interactions among genetic, environmental, and lifestyle factors that can influence your health and cause disease. She utilises the best Evidence-Based Complementary Therapies to work in conjunction with conventional treatments. Drawing from her clinical experience and knowledge she takes quality time with each patient to understand the root cause of the disease, analysing test results, and provides an integrative approach to wellbeing.
Erin works with general naturopathy patients and is very experienced in complex hormonal issues, integrative oncology support, autoimmune conditions, digestive disorders, and mental health. There is no "one size fits all" wellness plan so her consultations are tailored to your individual and unique needs. Erin sees a wide range of patients, from children to elderly, who are seeking to improve their health, heal naturally, or support for an underlying health condition.
Creators and Guests
What is Mikkipedia?
Mikkipedia is an exploration in all things health, well being, fitness, food and nutrition. I sit down with scientists, doctors, professors, practitioners and people who have a wealth of experience and have a conversation that takes a deep dive into their area of expertise. I love translating science into a language that people understand, so while some of the conversations will be pretty in-depth, you will come away with some practical tips that can be instigated into your everyday life. I hope you enjoy the show!
00:02
Hey everyone, it's Mikki here. You're listening to Mikkipedia and this week on the podcast, I speak to naturopath, Erin O'Hara. Erin O'Hara is a wealth of information and we have a great chat about a resilient immune system. Erin and I talk about her early years as a professional athlete, where we first met actually, before switching gears and diving into natural health and neuropathy.
00:30
We chat about signs of a robust vs struggling immune system, whether there is such a thing as boosting your immune system, and of course what foundational lifestyle and supplements exist to support immunity. And this is a topic for all seasons, particularly as we're sort of swinging into spring from winter here, and those in the Northern Hemisphere are going into your autumn or fall.
00:57
For those of you unfamiliar with Erin, she combines her knowledge of Neuropathy and science to provide an integrative and evidence-based approach to wellbeing. She's been involved in the health and wellbeing industry for around 20 years through extensive university study, scientific research, and an intrinsic passion for health and wellbeing.
01:16
Her functional medicine approach addresses the underlying causes of disease through extensive testing and looking at the interactions among genetic, environmental and lifestyle factors that can influence your health and cause disease. utilizes the best evidence-based complementary therapies to work in conjunction with conventional treatments. And she draws on both clinical experience and knowledge from patients and the research to understand the root
01:43
cause of disease, analyzing test results and provides an integrative approach to wellbeing. And you will hear this in the conversation that Erin and I have today, just the level of knowledge and experience that Erin has. So Erin works with both general naturopathy patients, but is also very experienced in complex hormonal issues, integrative oncology support, autoimmune conditions, digestive disorders and mental health.
02:10
For those of you wanting to work more closely with Erin, I have a link to her website in the show notes and that is at www.erinohara.co.nz Before we crack on into the interview, I would like to remind you that the best way to support this podcast is to hit the subscribe button on your favourite podcast listening platform and share this conversation with a friend. That will help increase the visibility of Micrpedia and amongst literally thousands of other podcasts out there.
02:39
so more people get to hear from the experts that I have in the show, such as Erin O'Hara. All right, team, enjoy the conversation.
02:51
Erin, thank you so much for taking time to speak to me this afternoon and hilarious before we were jumping on and hit record you were reminding me that we've known each other for many many years when you were just a young pup as you told me studying physiology with Wuramoo's run group in Les Mills like crazy do you know that run group still goes? I did not know that wow!
03:14
Now we're all, well, I say we, I'm not going to say we, it's been several years since I've been, but it's basically a middle-aged running group now. You know, like I see all the same women and men that were there when we were there 20 years ago and everyone, including of course, Rurumu, not quite as much, but he hasn't seemed to have aged much, but everyone else seems to have aged. It's crazy how rung clubs are super trending again now. I know, I know. Well, everyone's sort of wised up to
03:44
The, I mean, we were also talking about how running is a bit of a joy and it has been, you know, a bit of a love in terms of training. And it is, it's just so simple compared to, and relatively inexpensive compared to the cycling and the swimming and possibly putting it all together the way that you did in your pro triathlete years. Like you've had a bit of a journey actually with regards to sport and professionally maybe as well.
04:11
Yeah, it's been quite a journey and I went from running, grew up competitive swimming, moved into triathlon because I was like, oh, I've just got to learn how to ride a bike. How hard can that be? And then ended up racing as a professional triathlete in the US. And it's such a journey to be training 35 hours a week, which is quite demanding and trying to balance three sessions a day. it's discipline and amazing what you can achieve.
04:40
Yeah, and I do think that that athlete mindset is something really special. Like, I lean on my athlete mindset when I've got things that I need to do from a work perspective, despite the fact that I was never a professional athlete, but the same sort of skills and discipline that you develop, which, you know, I um haven't had a lot, like, one-on-one time with you over the last 15 years, but we have...
05:06
shared clients. And I know from the information they bring into these sessions with me, that you're just so on point and so up to date with a lot of the research in the naturopathic um space, which is why I wanted to talk to you today. Because those, the athlete mindset I see in you from a professional perspective as well.
05:26
Yeah, I think it's more like that putting it into learning and growing and wanting to get to like the understanding of the root of things and my background of science is very much how I kind of flow into the naturopathic clinic as well as I like to kind of get to the root cause is that you can't just kind of fluff over the symptoms, but actually what's actually creating disease. And that's where the science background I think is really the foundation of how I like to work as a naturopath and
05:55
the kind of putting it in that sort of functional medicine way of understanding the body and actually having sort of a scientific background, even why I choose certain supplements or herbs rather than sort of picking willy-nilly like a crystal ball. It's actually, there's a lot more to it of like understanding the body and understanding where the weak points are of what sort of your symptoms are hinting and what they create in the body and what symptoms are leading to and actually having a sort of
06:24
very good strategy and how you work with whatever supplements or herbal medicine that you work with. Do you think naturopathy is a little bit misunderstood out there and amongst, I don't know, medical or just the general population as into, as how detailed and specific and knowledgeable, you know, you have to be as a naturopath? I think it's changed a lot. think back sort of
06:52
14, 15 years ago, think Naturopath was something that you go to as like a last resort when nothing else worked. And I think now it's become a lot more science background. And I think there's a lot more trust also in the medical field of working more in an integrative way. And I think that's really happened through the development of Naturopathy just growing and it being more people more interested in caring for their body and their health and also being more
07:21
sort of proactive and caring for their own health and not just relying on their own doctor. But also I think the change of how natural these become a lot more science backgrounds, you know, doing university degrees to actually then set up clinics, it's a lot more regulated and who can practice in that way. And I think the addition also of the more functional medicine testing like microbiome, napin.
07:49
I'm also urine testing for hormones. think there's a lot more advancement in the testing that naturopaths do. That's quite often actually not actually offered through your mainstream doctor as well. They'll do blood tests, but they might not do the extra tests that sometimes we don't do in New Zealand. So they can be sent overseas. But I think that development of the science behind the naturopathy and the testing actually brings a lot more foundation to it.
08:18
and actually a lot more trust in doctors, trusting what naturopaths do and a lot more integration between the mainstream medicine or what I like to call modern medicine and traditional medicine, which is more sort of your foundation with herbal medicine actually being the basis of medicine anyway. Super interesting. And I love that you brought up the um functional testing that you might do in your clinic. And I've had
08:45
varying conversations over the years with people and their varying opinions. I've chatted to Dr. Carrie Jones before who used to work with Dutch and I don't know if she's still with Rupa, she might not be actually, but we chatted about the Dutch test. know many clinicians use it. I've used it myself, but I also know there are people who are like, well, that's not validated. That doesn't really sort of show us anything, but.
09:12
In your experience, Erin, if you run, for example, a Dutch test, a dried urine test for comprehensive hormones, uh does that inform your treatment? And therefore, do you see success and more success when you do that? I think definitely there is a lot more to it when you do get those test results, because it helps you get more targeting in what pathways that you would treat. I'm more inclined to
09:39
But the Dutch test getting quite expensive, especially in New Zealand, I tend to work a lot more on symptoms sometimes and I'll do that as an extra rather than as a first thing that I'll do. Sometimes if we're not actually getting the results, we're like, what are we missing? Then I might turn to doing a Dutch test to see if there's something that we're missing or something like organic acid marker testing, which is sort of similar to the Dutch test with looking at metabolic pathways or
10:07
microbiome, I'm probably more likely to do that as a first step for if someone comes in with a lot of gut symptoms or autoimmune conditions or what else, or low immunity or lots of digestive symptoms that we can't actually get the answers to, or eczema, skin conditions, then I might actually start with actually doing the microbiome mapping first because I feel like for that, that's a lot more scientific background.
10:36
but actually in the long run people actually spend less on supplements and they're actually taking a lot less products because if you're kind of going with the let's try this, oh that didn't work, let's try this, you can actually end up using a lot more products and actually not get the results and that's where I feel like the functional medicine test sometimes can shortcut how quickly you can get results and you can actually reduce the amount of supplements that you're taking because going to see a naturopath is not just to...
11:05
leave the naturopath with like, you know, 20 bottles of product to take. I think it's about instead of understanding what does your body need to come back into balance. And I think that's where there really is a misunderstanding sometimes with a naturopath that they just give you supplements and you're going to end up staying on these supplements. But quite often actually you're taking supplements to bring the body back into its balance. So then you don't need to be taking supplements. And that's where it's
11:34
quite a different approach to kind of being working out what does the body need to come back into its harmony and to be functioning at its optimal as well and what work needs to be done to do that. Yeah, no, that all makes perfect sense. And to your point about how the view on naturopathy has changed over the years, like, I mean, the last time I saw you and the first time in many years was of course a few weekends ago at the Acnem.
12:01
conference. And what I love about that conference is you're in a room of general practitioners who are learning about the science and about the validity, if you like, of other sort of natural health practitioners, whereby they probably came up in a system that didn't really give a lot of cred to naturopaths or nutritionists and things like that people like that. I think it's really changing and the more that people get interest in it.
12:29
And then want to read the research because the thing is that now there's a big shift in how much research there is behind different supplement ingredients that actually is actually the research to back up. Why would you take this and what would the dose be? And I think that really helps with that mainstream medicine, have more faith in what also the naturopath or integrative doctor does because there is actually that backing of like, this is safe to use and this is how it works.
12:58
And I think that really makes a difference. uh There is a big change with that sort of referral as well. I've even had some people get referred from their GP to see a naturopath because there are some certain areas where they don't really have any more options for them. So how about you try this and they'll refer on. So I think there is a lot more integration going on over the years.
13:23
and naturopathy is becoming a lot more science-backed, so it makes it more integrated too. And that makes perfect sense because it's hard to do it all as a GP, particularly under the system that New Zealand runs, and Australia as well. Yeah, I think because they're just not having enough time, and even sometimes they might be doing all the tests, but there might be that...
13:49
having that extra time to actually go through and look thoroughly and put a bigger sort of looking in depth and understanding the whole picture of how goes together because quite often your GP, although they'd love to care for your health more thoroughly, don't have the time and they might be just looking for anything that's really out of range, but rather than looking at, what links to wash and how can we put that picture together?
14:16
So Erin, today, there are so many things that I could talk to you about. we were just talking before about how we've got another subject to do a deep dive in. today, I just really wanted to chat about overall health and immunity for the general population, particularly this time of year. We're in the depths of, we're just about coming out of July and two thirds of the way through winter. But right now, the days can seem really short. m
14:43
everyone seems to be sort of coming down with something. think thinking just more sort of broadly about immune health, some of the misconceptions about what we should do, what are the supplements that actually work, what are things which we are actually just wasting our money on, and also what are the big sort of dial movers outside of supplements and stuff that you might see. So can we actually start with...
15:07
thinking about like how is our immune health? How do you think about it as a reflection of overall health, I suppose, in the body? Is it the thing that we should be focusing on? It's one of the main areas and I think you can't kind of take it and put it as by itself because really all the systems work together. And I think any imbalance will really show up in the immune system, especially if you're getting sick all the time or you're finding like any cuts or wounds are not a healing problem.
15:37
or you just can't keep well across the winter months. It's a real sign that there's a weakness in the immune system and it could be triggered from numerous factors. So it might not just be one thing, it could be a lifestyle, it be high stress, it be lack of sleep, but there's so many factors that link into your overall immune system. Over the winter months also, we are more commonly likely to get sick and
16:03
Part of it is actually there's some research on the changes that happen in the cold weather inside your nose and how that affects your immune system as well. So you're more likely to get sick as well as spending more time inside and obviously more closed windows, less ventilation. So there's a lot more exposure to bugs in that way. But actually in general, compared to winter to summer, your immune system is obviously relatively same apart from
16:31
the changes that can occur within the nostrils and whether you're more likely to get an infection. And that really comes down to your foundation of how your body works with the balance of the innate immunity as well as adaptive immunity, which innate immunity is really like that first line of defense. As soon as the body gets some sort of infection, it should be like, yep, this is an infection. We know what to do with that. Remove it with the immune system activating.
16:59
and then you won't get all the symptoms and get really sick for a long time. When it comes to adaptive immunity, it's the body learning different infections where it might be like, yeah, we've had this type of flu before, we know how to manage that. And that really comes down to how it's regulated through the cells in the body, your organs, and how things like the spleen, the thymus, the bone marrow, the lymph nodes all work together in helping with.
17:28
cleaning up infection and creating those antibodies that actually help us to stay well too. Okay, you mentioned spleens, bit of a tangent, but if someone's had their spleen removed, is that going to impact on their immune system? Yes, it'll make them more immune compromised and quite often sort of the mainstream approach is keep them on antibiotics or they'll do some sort of rotations. I'll see this a lot with more oncology patients that might have the spleen removed.
17:57
and they might be doing like a pulse protocol where a couple of days a week they're taking antibiotics to kind of keep the infection at bay because they won't clean up infection as well. So your spleen's actually really important for immune system function. And I think that's where whatever supplement support you can do is getting it really targeted. And I think when it comes to immune health and looking at supplements, there's a big difference between
18:25
what you would take if you are sick and what you would take if you're wanting to support your immune system. And I don't really like the word boost because I'm like, it's not really how it works. It's more around creating an environment where your body's a lot more likely to identify with any viruses or infections and that innate immunity, picking them up faster so you don't get as sick. And I think that's where supplements is, I think,
18:55
Broadly people go and they just pick a supplement that says, oh, this will boost your immunity or fight infection. And I think the most common misconception is probably the use of particularly vitamin C. It's like, take vitamin C over the winter because I'm going to protect myself from getting sick. I'm like, it doesn't kind of work like that. Like as a vitamin, I would say vitamin C is great cleaning up free radicals. So great if you're doing a lot of sports.
19:25
You you've got a big exposure to lot of free radicals and you need that high dose antioxidant. But when it comes to actually adapting the immune cells, that's not what it's going to do. So actually there's actually quite often a lot better options for supporting the immunity over the winter months rather than just upping your vitamin C. Okay. I'm just going to stop you right there because you've just said that it could be helpful for active people. So, so.
19:54
From a practical perspective then, if someone's listening to this, they're going, hey, but I'm an active person and I wanna uh clean up those free radicals. Is the vitamin C powder off the shelf gonna do that for us? Yeah, when it comes to vitamin C, I think, yeah, there's so many different options and so many, such a big price range from liposomal to vitamin C infusions to like just your standard chewy tablets or powders.
20:23
But actually if you're using it more as like what I'd call it antioxidant and cleaning up free radicals and that sort of seems I think as long as you don't take the approach of mega dosing it in if you're using it as a daily sort of support for antioxidant support then just do a small dose. And if you are going to take more you're better to take a little dose in the morning a little dose at night and the only benefit of using it liposomal is you could take a bigger dose at once.
20:52
because it's got that lipid molecule to get into the body because vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin. So if you take a big dose all at once, then you're just going to wear it all out. So you're just wasting it. So you're better to take it little and often. And that's where I'll really use vitamin C. Maybe a small dose is a daily dose for sort of adrenal or immune support, but more in that antioxidant sense.
21:19
But when you are sick, that's the fantastic time to use the vitamin C. And I quite commonly won't use the liposomals. I'll just use a standard powder or tablet. But I'll dose it really small. So say 500 milligrams every two to three hours. So you're getting that little dose to keep cleaning up the free radicals, cleaning up the infection, and actually helping you to recover quicker. So that's a way that I'll sort of use it. And I call it more like.
21:47
the natural antibiotics sort of protocol is that actually you've got something going in regularly. And if you pair it alongside the likes of your zinc and vitamin D, you can get a really good response and helping clean up infection, which is really where I like to use the more consistent dosing of vitamin C when you're actually sick. Nice one. And Erin, you mentioned before about, we talked, you said people who have their spleen removed are likely to be immunocompromised.
22:16
for that reason. is there a sort of related, but is there a hereditary sort of base for our immune system? Like if our parents got sick a lot, should we expect to get sick a lot or should our kids if we do, like do we know much about that? I personally don't know much about that. I don't think like quite often it probably would be more environmental than actually genetic. um I don't know much about the genetic lines around immunity. I think that
22:45
environment and your lifestyle actually has probably a bigger impact in genetics on your immune system. So what you're doing every day and that's where I think even above supplements is actually, you got your foundations right? Which you can't just throw in a bunch of supplements and herbs and think that you're going to have super power health. I think it's more, okay, what is the foundation of the body like with the likes of what are you eating?
23:15
How are you sleeping? Where's your stress levels at? And I think you've got to look at those things before you leap into a massive supplement plan and actually know that you've actually got that baseline right first. Because that will do wonders for immune system. Do you feel like people often come to you looking for the supplement range more than the lifestyle advice that they probably already know and already ignore?
23:40
I get a picture i'll get some people that are coming see me and i don't want to take any supplements and like. That's kind of nice but also sometimes the like the sort of person that needs to take something to actually get results so you know that that's nice but also not always not always practical and actually getting results and then i'll find some people just want to take me to supplement send i've seen the odd person doing the likes of you know blueprint protocol and i've seen.
24:08
chaotic amounts of supplements that I'm like, okay, let's just strip it all back. Let's start again and go back to basics. And actually I think sometimes people are getting driven by taking supplements or super foods that supposedly they think they can't get in their diet, but actually you can get so much through what you're doing every day and how you're caring for your body and nutrition is more important than your supplements. Yeah.
24:37
Super interesting, when you mentioned Blueprint, just got flashed, I had Brian Johnson flash up in front of my face with his new protocol that he's got out. And I just, oh I saw a post actually on X and he was like, I'm trying to do everything so I don't die. Like, what am I missing? And he'd listed out all of these different supplements and someone like tweeted and said, uh, strength training and getting a new protein. Like, as in like, you don't, you know, he's sort of like, what is that saying?
25:07
uh skipping over rocks to pick up pebbles is, and I see a lot of people do that as well. get a lot of questions about, know, Mickey, should I be taking either creatine or NMN or NAD plus and all of, and true nitrogen and whatever that sort of range is. And I don't doubt that there is a place for these more specialized supplements, but often the people that I'm talking to, and maybe you might see this too Erin, is
25:35
they haven't actually got those foundations in place yet. Commonly they don't have the foundation and commonly they're trying to pick supplements off social media. They have great marketing campaigns and not scientific research to back them up. And that's where the likes of like the MNNN, I'm a little bit cautious because obviously in my eyes, the research is still in the growing phase of like learning.
26:00
And there comes risk with taking certain supplements, like if you're taking something that can potentially increase cellular growth, including tumor growth, you want to be really mindful. that's where I think knowing what you're taking and why you're taking it is a good question to ask yourself when you look at your supplements. Are you just taking something because you've seen it marketed on social media and you think, oh, well, that could be helpful.
26:26
Or is it what your body actually needs? And that sometimes can be two different things. And when it comes down to even vitamins, there's your water soluble vitamins, which pretty safe to take, although you're just making your kidneys work harder if you take too much. And then you've got your fat soluble vitamins like vitamin E, D and A, which are all things that store. And even zinc and iron, be mindful around those because if you're overdosing, then
26:56
that's not going to bring your health to optimal health at all. You're actually going to be putting more load on your body by loading more supplements in. How do people know what supplements they need? So talk us through what you might do there. Yeah, so usually how I personally would work is I like to do blood testing first. So I've got some idea of where their sort of weak pathways are. You know, is it to do with iron deficiency or is there
27:25
some problems with insulin regulation or do we have a weakened immune system? depending on what I'm working with, I'll look at like the foundations of what the basic blood work looks like. And usually I'll just do it through standard GP. So nothing too fancy because otherwise it does get really expensive doing a lot of testing. So it's quite good to just run basic organ function, see where the weaknesses are in their health, if there are any, before you come and then go, okay,
27:53
What are the main actions that you want to bring into the body to optimize their health? Like are they coming for sleep or are they coming for low immunity or are they coming for poor insulin regulation? And then actually looking at, how can we support those pathways? Whether it's through nutrition or other lifestyle techniques or what supplements would be helpful to that person? And how can we kind of get a strategy towards what we're putting in?
28:23
Do you get any sort of patterns Erin? Like um I guess an example is, you if I test a lot of people for vitamin D right now, a lot of them are going to be low. Like do you see things like that in your clinic or is it a bit too, or is your practice not one whereby you're going to necessarily see the same things? I probably don't see the same things. I'll see similar patterns when it comes to certain health conditions.
28:50
So it kind of builds that sort of picture of what's going on in that person's body. Like commonly when I see, especially things like oncology patients, commonly they are extremely low in vitamin D. So like there will be certain things that I'll do extra testing for because I know to look for certain things that would relate to whatever they've come in for. And sometimes I will do some extra testing for
29:17
vitamins that your main GP wouldn't do so that we just do extra funding for privately fund those extra tests. But I think you can't really go wrong with starting with a good lot of blood tests. So as you see where your health is at, and then you can't really go past how do you feel like and what are your symptoms like they tell you a lot about your body and what pathways that you need support before you even start to kind of
29:46
load in the supplements and there's no point of putting in lots of support for immunity. If people are like sleeping two hours a night and they're not eating well and the high stress like that, there'd usually a whole lot of compounding factors that go into it. And I think it's about creating that harmony and balance in the body. Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. You mentioned vitamin D and I did as well because it's sort of on my mind.
30:14
um And I thought about it when you mentioned about there's not a whole lot of difference between summer and winter in terms of um our potential for to get sick, but potentially it's just our environment. But does vitamin D play a role? Vitamin D definitely does play a role in immune function. um And so it's important to check it. Usually if we lived in Australia, for instance, it gets checked twice a year as part of their mainstream medical system.
30:41
In New Zealand, it is classified as an extra test, but it is worth testing because it is a fat soluble vitamin and it can help you know what dose to give yourself because obviously you don't want to be too high and you don't want to be too low. It's about finding that perfect balance, but the vitamin D is really important for decreasing inflammation and improving your immune response. So making sure you've got
31:09
at optimal level, which usually I'll aim for sort of high normal, which I like it to sit around 125 to 150. So right at the top of the range is where I personally target it to, knowing that then they've got a bit of baseline, but it's also important for other functions in the body, like really important for mood. So someone who also gets really low mood over the winter months, gonna be a good one to check for as well.
31:35
as well as bone density for particularly postmenopausal women, because it might not be, that might be one of your triggers to actually leading into osteoporosis as well. Yeah, yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. And it's nice to hear that what I think about vitamin D, like it aligns with what you've just described as well. And it's interesting, actually, I was chatting, I can't remember where I was, probably somewhere on social when someone was, someone,
32:04
sort of was like, hang on, if the invinimidase is 80, surely that's enough, you know, in New Zealand units. And I'm like, well, I mean, it's within that range, but it's not really where it might be optimal. There's just different schools of thought out there, right? And that's where looking at the blood tests as well. Like usually I'll look for everything. I want everything in optimal range. So even if your GP might not have noted something, I might be like, that's not really where we want it to be.
32:32
we could be better than that or we could wait until we have a problem. And I think that's where the quicker you can pick up on where your weaknesses are in your body and your health, the quicker you can correct them and the more you can stay in super health as well. Yeah, no, totally. Now, um if I'm thinking about immune health, Erin, like if you've got someone in front of you and you suspect that something's a little bit amiss in that area, yet
33:01
they don't seem necessarily unwell, what kind of things might you be sort of seeing there? Like what signs that they might not sort of pick up that you might sort of be looking for? So usually I will look at the bloods and I'll be looking at what their white blood count, neutrophils and lymphocytes are doing, where they are sitting in the range. I'll usually check in their medical history, how often they've been getting sick and if they've been getting sick regularly often.
33:29
Also small children if they have small children or even school age children generally I'm a little bit more cautious over the winter months knowing their exposure to Bucks is going to be a lot higher so supporting them going into the winter months so usually I'll prep going into that sort of autumn into winter to upregulate their immune system and that's really where it comes down to what you would use daily for
33:59
improving immune function and optimizing the immune system is quite different to what you would use when you are sick. So when I'm looking for like just daily immune support, usually some of my favorites is working with things like, quite like medicinal mushrooms for immune support, so the likes of reishi.
34:23
beta blue can also turkey tails are having that sort of immune support using the mushrooms which really helped the immune system adapt rather than really up regulating it as such as more creating that addiction as well as uh herbal medicine whether it's looking at astragalus is a really good one for particularly increasing white blood counts and helping the body to up regulate its immune.
34:52
function to really pick up when there is an infection there. Where a sugarless, if you do wear sick is not as helpful, it's more that immune support. So that can be a really good herb to be using as a regular herb. And the other one that I commonly will use even for kids and actually, especially when kids start daycare, that's usually chaos. And I usually start to prep with
35:20
the likes of echinacea going into every day. So like as a daily remedy and then up regulating the dose if they are sick, but using a maintenance dose daily as well as beta glucans are really helpful for kids for supporting their immune system so they don't get sick all the time. And they make a big difference when you're taking them daily, those sorts of support. And then also getting your foundation nutrients like
35:49
So things like your vitamin D as well as zinc and maybe a little bit of vitamin C, but not mega dosing as a daily dose, but more just a small dose to just give that extra support for cleaning up free radicals and supporting the body in that way. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So good to hear you talk about Echinacea. I have a lot of clients come and they tell me that they use it.
36:16
You know, it's not my wheelhouse because I don't learn about that. And of course I can read research on it, but you're a practicing naturopath. You've, you know, you've done the study on it. So it's actually a worthwhile thing for people to take. Absolutely. Yeah. Echinacea would be one of my favorites um because it helps really with immune modulation, which is adapting that immune system. And it's nice. And it's a great one. You can also give to kids and even pregnant women are safe to take Echinacea as well. And it comes in.
36:46
liquid forms or I'll use something called a glycetrap which is more like a sort of syrup which kids quite happily will take generally or tablets which are the other option. Just know when you're taking things like echinacea they do make your mouth tingly if you're using a liquid which has that sort of little bit of numbing effect. Really good if you're getting a sore throat as well as that's the time to use the echinacea you can swish it on the back of the throat like a gargle like a mouthwash.
37:15
and then swallow and it actually can help you if you do have any infection on the throat as well. So you can use it as an immune modulator as well as when you're sick. So that is one of those herbs that has both those actions as well. And what are other herbs or things which you might use with someone if they are sick? So if they are sick, I love herbs for more having that mucolytic action. So really helping to clear infection.
37:43
also antibacterial, antiviral. So one of my favorites is using usually a tablet option that will have a combo of oregano, garlic, berberine, myrrh and thyme. So they're all what are known as antimicrobial herbs. So they're antibacterial or antiviral, because you don't know when you've got a cold, is it bacterial based? Is it going to end up as a bacterial infection or is it viral? So usually I'll use something like that in either a tablet.
38:12
form or a similar kind of combo in a liquid formula. Also those herbs are really good for things like a cough as well. So the favorites for any sort of chesty coughs is thyme and Neelin is really good as well. So helping with more that decongestant sort of actions and knowing that when you actually have a cold or a flu, that virus, the actual symptoms that you're getting with
38:41
mucus congestion is actually not the infection itself. It's that cytokine storm of inflammation that's getting created. And I think that's where really the herbal medicine is the magic. liquids usually do work faster than tablets. However, the taste is a bit of an obstacle for some people. But the quicker you get onto these things, the quicker you can also clear the infection.
39:07
So that's where it's quite good over the winter months to have like a little plan of something that you take and you might move away from your daily supplements while you're sick and just take more like a cleanup infection protocol that would have. So a herbal sort of remedy in there with the likes of echinacea, berberine thyme, and campaign is another good one for clearing infection. And then alongside that,
39:35
I quite like some in a satel system, especially if you've got lots of congestion because that breaks up mucus and then carrying it alongside vitamin C, vitamin A, sorry, vitamin C, vitamin D and zinc. And that's sort of a little combo I find works the magic for like cleanup infection. And then once you're kind of back on track and don't have lots of symptoms, then back onto your normal kind of supplement plan. And if I'm doing it that way, you're not
40:05
overloaded with like so much stuff to take. Because if you're trying to take your regular supplements and fight an infection, it's quite often you just best to get rid of the infection and then move back onto your standards that a plan is and boost the immune system back up or support the immune system with whatever you're taking every day. Now that makes so much sense. And Erin, you mentioned a few things I just want to clarify or I'm thinking of.
40:30
So you mentioned cytokine storm, which of course all of us will be well familiar with that term over the last several years with COVID, et cetera. So everything that you've sort of described would be quite a good action plan for any kind of virus that anyone's getting, including whatever latest strain of COVID is sort of sweeping the country. Yeah, so whether it's a virus, a cold, a flu, you can kind of treat it in the same sort of way as usually my approach of like anything that's bacterial or virus.
41:00
I would usually take that same sort of strategy of using antimicrobial herbs alongside vitamin C, D, zinc. And sometimes I'll use quercetin as well because that reduces the inflammation and just helps with that anti-allergy response to get everything back settled down again. Nice. then, like, I mean, I imagine, and I know this myself, is that people have, you know, hundreds of different
41:27
supplements that they could buy online that might bring all these things together and might have eight or nine or 10 different things they're taking. Do you have favorite brands? And are there any that come with it all in a one or a two? All of those little things you said were great. Does this come in just one tablet? I'd love to say there's good options like that, but I'm not really a big fan of these multi-combo products. Because commonly what happens is
41:56
You basically put a little bit of everything in and there's only so much that can fit in a tablet. Yes. means that quite often the dose is lower. So you end up just taking more of those tablets. So me personally, I like to keep everything separate is kind of how I like to work in my practice. I'll keep the vitamin D separate to the zinc, separate to the NAC. And then also you have the ability to sort of adapt. Okay, I need this and they don't need that.
42:23
they're all secrets when they're in like a multi complex. Generally, it's got I always describe it as a little bit of everything, but not much of anything. Because there's only so much you can fit in. So generally, it's best to get them as secrets. And yeah, there's some things you will be able to pick up at just your local pharmacy or, um, or but quality does matter. And that's where I'm a huge fan of more practitioner only brands that have higher quality.
42:52
And it might be that you seek support from whether it's an integrative doctor or a naturopath to be like, okay, what's my plan for the winter? And usually I'll write it in that sort of way as I'll be like, okay, when you get sick, you take this stuff and this is how we do it. And you can limit it a little bit by what you choose to take, but some of them will be like daily remedies that you might be taking. So it wouldn't be too many extra products.
43:17
And when it comes to herbs, I'll usually blend them together in one bottle if I'm blending a bottle or if it's using like a herbal product, like I love this little one here. Which one's that one? It's called Phytaxel uh and it's just the magic combo. It's got all my favorite antimicrobial herbs in here and magic. If you're coming down with something, you hit the Phytaxel.
43:42
and you get those anti-microbials. don't belong to this brand, but I just love this product. Yeah, nice one. Is that through NutriScript? Yeah, it is. Oh, great. Great. Yeah. So really good product. Really just herbs. It's got five herbs and it's all the yucky herbs, to be honest. So it's quite good to it in a tablet because no one would take garlic in a liquid unless you don't mind their smelly mouth. But it's quite good to take it in a tablet form instead of a liquid.
44:12
but that's probably one of my favorites for fight infection when you are at cheese sick. So it's probably one the top of my list and then I'll pair it alongside those basics. um And then you can usually clear off any sort of infection. When it comes to sort of daily support, it's not a matter of taking lots of stuff. You can usually pick like one good formula that usually has a good balance of things in it. Some of my favorites.
44:41
I like this orthoplex, orthoplex immunoforte. This one's quite nice. It's got all the herbs in there. It's got elderberry, which is a nice immune modulator as well. It's got your echinacea in there. So really good combo for like that immune boost, immune supporting, as well as like if you are sick, you can up the dose. Sometimes you can use the same product, take it as a daily remedy when you get sick, up the regularity of how often you take it.
45:10
Another little favorite, which I find moms with kids, if they take this, it can be wonders for keeping the immune system mega strong over the winter months. And this is more your medicinal mushroom product. I call it the cheapest sister of the Rye Brack, which is the one that we talked about at the conference. Because obviously that is quite an expensive product, the Rye Brack, which
45:39
we can chat about, but this is more like got your medicinal mushrooms, but it's also got in here some turmeric, green tea, vitamin A, vitamin D, selenium and zinc. So kind of that more combo style product when you're trying to reduce what you're taking. That can be like the daily remedy, but you've got those nutrients in there as well as the mushrooms all in one product. does it have good turmeric in it as well? Like C3 complex. Amazing. Amazing.
46:08
Erin, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions, then I want to ask you about the... You call it Ryback. Rubinoxilin compound. Yes, yes. We will get to that. But a couple of things. I see a lot, and I was very hooked for maybe 18 months on doTERRA.
46:27
their oils. And we used to swig on guard, which had a lot of the, know I like that expression. We would jump like just before bed, we'd be like, oh, you've got that on guard and we'd have a couple of drops and then give it to Barry and Barry take a couple of drops. We actually didn't get sick for like, for the duration of taking it, which could have just been um coincidence. But I do know that it has a lot of those herbs that you were talking about in it.
46:57
I do think, you I mean, it's a bit of, you've to be careful with things like oils, don't you? Yeah, I'm a lot more cautious when it comes to oils because they are more concentrated. So if you think about it being the most concentrated style of herbs, because it takes it into its oil compounds. Generally speaking, if you look at the clinical research, they're more designed to be used topically rather than,
47:25
Orally, which I know do terrorists begin to using I personally would not take lots of the aroma therapy oils Orally without having the support of a professional person that knew how to manage that because they are super super concentrated And I think also most of the research is a bit mixed when it comes to aroma therapy oils There's not good clinical studies also the risk of toxicity is higher because they are more concentrated and I think
47:54
Sometimes people can be a bit willy-nilly with their dosing when they're using aromatherapy. But just remember, like, the potency of a drop is high, like mega high. And I think that's where I think it's about, there needs to be a lot more caution around using aromatherapy oils, because one drop should be enough if you were going to diffuse it for whole room. So when you're starting to ingest them, I think just being really cautious what you're ingesting and what sort of...
48:22
advice you're getting around what you're using because they are really, really high dosing. Yeah. Oh, that's really great advice. I just remember doing a few drops on the back of my throat each night. Like massive doses compared to possibly what I would have been advised from you. But I don't think I was that different from anyone else actually.
48:45
who was doing it because I was sort of just following the guidelines of what I saw from people online. And this is me, like I am not overly dumb, you know, like, and I went, oh yeah, that person seems to know what they're talking about. But you know, people just really buy into them, I suppose. But I think it's more looking at the variety of herbs and looking at like, if you look at the most dilote version being like herbs that you ate or herbal teas, which really herbal tea.
49:12
Yeah, if you love herbal tea, drink herbal tea, but actually the dosing in it, I classify it as more therapeutic dosing rather than pharmaceutical dosing, which means it's only going to have a very small effect. So if you're drinking a moonbursting tea, it's not going to be that helpful to be honest, unless you drink like a hundred cups a day. So the very opposite end of the scale to the aromatherapy oils, you're like polar opposites. And that's where
49:40
with being a medicinal herbalist, I look at pharmaceutical dosing. So the clinical dosing of what needs to be taken within the week that actually has the pharmaceutical effect within the body or the action that you're wanting to create. And that's where herbal medicine has a range of different ways you can use it, but also know that drinking tea, you have to drink a lot of tea. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And to be honest, I'm always...
50:07
When it comes to herbal tea, I often think it over promises and under delivers in terms of flavor. So I generally like, if you come to my house, you get decaf black tea or black tea. We're not very big on the herbals. Although to be fair, every time I go into that tea drawer, I'm like, ah, I've got to get something. Because everyone always asks for something else that we don't have. Anyway, Erin, talk to me about Rye Brat.
50:33
Yes a right back or rice brand or even a oxaline compound which is its full name has lots of clinical research be she around oncology so it's an immunotherapy that really works on. Up regulating natural killer cell production which if we think about nature killer cells being kind of looking around for that kind of cells that look around for any rogue cells that are not normal and then it might help to.
51:03
resolve those cells. So it really works on immune system, but it's also immune modulator. So what it means is if your immune system is low, it will help your immune system come back into normal range. And if your immune system is high, it also modulates it back to normal. So it can also be used for autoimmune conditions as well and have really good results because it can also down-regulate the immune system if it needs to be down-regulated.
51:31
But in particular, as we're looking at natural colour cell production, which is like the most important thing, like generally when we're looking at oncology, there's a few driving factors, but having low immunity is actually one of the main things that actually increases your risk of getting cancer. So it's weird, like usually I wouldn't use the right brackets like a daily remedy unless someone had a history of having had cancer.
52:01
They might be in remission or maybe they're still going through treatment and I'll be using it alongside, but it is an immunotherapy, basically a natural immunotherapy for bringing the immune system back into regulation. And it's a really safe thing to use. actually comes from Ricebrand. It's broken down using shiitake mushroom enzymes. And actually it takes a long time to manufacture and that's why it is quite an expensive product.
52:30
And usually I wouldn't use it for just standard immune system. And I'd usually more use it in those specialized times around maybe um oncology or history of cancer or autoimmune. Or if there was someone who was getting sick a lot, I might put it into a daily maintenance plan for just helping their immune system modulate if they tried some other things and they were still getting sick a lot. In New Zealand, we don't test for
52:59
natural killer cell production. So usually I'll look for more of the other markers and just your complete blood cell panel, which would be more the white blood cells and how are the whites of blood cells balanced and are they low? Do they need support? And how can we regulate the immune system through using the likes of those sorts of products? Oh, interesting. If you see someone that does have a low white blood cell count and it's
53:28
and it's historical for them. So it's been several, like every time they get them tested, they seem to be low. Is that a sign to you that something's amiss in their immune system? Yes, usually it's a sign there's something amiss and quite often it'll also get disregarded because they'll be like, oh, well, it's always low. That's just naturally how your body functions. But I think there's a difference between, okay, what is kind of normal for you and what is actually optimal for your health.
53:58
because you kind of don't want to wait until there is some sort of disease that's progressed. So I think looking at it as kind of more like a hint that something's not quite right and actually doing some things to bring it back into balance. And that might be sometimes where I would use the likes of a microbiome mapping or maybe some further virus testing, whether we're looking at Epstein-Barr virus, whether there's some other triggers that are making that immune system low.
54:27
And then it can be a matter of taking some immune modulating supplements, whether you're gersing medicinal mushrooms or the likes of Rye Bracks and then retesting or Ustragalus is another good one. If you're continually getting low white blood count, find Ustragalus is a good option for bringing that white blood count back into normal range again. But it's also kind of asking yourself, okay,
54:53
Is there anything else going on? Do you have any other symptoms that could be triggering this immune system to be low that's actually creating a weakness in your overall system? Because there is usually something else that's triggering it. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. How often, Erin, do you see environmental factors at play, like mold or, I don't know, plastics or exposure to other things in our environment, which, you know, like poor quality body lotion and shampoo?
55:23
Do you have conversations like this in your clinic with some people? I do, but I think it's more a secondary thing that we would do because obviously there's like, we could get worried about everything in this world and we would be like, you know, not eating anything. We wouldn't want to kind of drink anything. You'd have to go and live on the moon basically to not have any exposure. So I think if there are certain things that people are doing that are like bigger lumbar, like the likes of,
55:52
cooking something with gladder on the top of the microwave. think there's certain things that we can do as little adjustments, but I think it's about meeting the person where they're at and not trying to do everything all at once. Otherwise it's going to be so overwhelming that it actually won't be sustainable at all. That we're better off making little changes and implementing them before we hit in towards things like plastics and environment. And when it comes to things like, um,
56:22
No toxicity is not she can do so there are two to say whether you do have notes was in your body i think it's looking at why what symptoms you have cuz commonly that no exposure would create actually big some of the lots of congestion sick all the time it would be worth like you have to look at the overall profile with you then look into doing more more testing i think it is a problem in new zealand. uh
56:49
because our housing unfortunately is not all up to standard of where it needs to be to reduce that mold exposure. And everyone has a different immune system also of how it reacts to things like molds. So this one person in a household can be perfectly healthy and the other person can have a lot of systemic inflammation and symptoms and sick all the time and high allergies. And that just shows the uniqueness between everyone.
57:19
completely unique and different even if we're from the same family and live in the same house and eat the same food. Yeah, no, totally. And I was thinking that actually just a couple of weeks ago at the conference and they were talking about um antioxidants and your body's ability to sort of get rid of free radicals and things like that from a genetic perspective as well, right? Some people have genes that...
57:44
not be overwhelmed with inflammation and their body's actually able to resolve it, whereas other people might have like a different profile. Yeah, and you can do gene testing to see whether you do have some of those weak points in your health. And I think that's where it's about looking at your overall health picture of what your body's like and understanding yourself even a bit more of like, where is your health at and how cautious do you need to be because some people are super sensitive.
58:12
to the world and other people can actually do anything and get no symptoms. And it just shows you the variance between everybody is so huge. Yeah, yeah, totally. um Erin, I'm mindful of the time actually. I've got a couple of quick fire things that I want to, I say quick fire, who knows we might go on a tangent for 20 minutes, but um nutrient rescue, yay or nay? Nay. Interesting, is it because it's uh
58:41
There's nothing really to clinically suggest it's going to be helpful or, because people swear by it. I would call it a food-based product. So if you need a bit of a booster into your nutrition, because you're lacking variety and lots of fruits and veggies, and you might, if you have a slightly poor diet, then those sorts of super food products can be really helpful for more boosters. But I personally don't put them in the supplement category.
59:09
When it comes to modulating, not so much, the more nutrient boosting is how I would describe them. So I think it depends on your diet whether you need to be adding extra superfood powders in. Because there's so many foods in our diet that I think also don't get enough hype about because we're so into these superfoods that are...
59:35
But what about things like eating blueberries and eating more antioxidants and eating the color of the rainbow? Like there's so many superfoods and just eating more leafy greens and you're actually getting all the fiber in and eating all the colors of the rainbow that there's so much we can do actually with just normal foods. they normal foods have amazing health benefits too that are still I've classified them as superfoods. If you're eating more fruits and veggies and getting in.
01:00:04
more antioxidants through variety of foods. Yeah, nice one. people who I talk to, they swear by it, albeit when they say, or if I get someone saying, Mickey, I'm looking at my supplements stack and I've got to make some changes or cuts, and they list out things and then they also have nutrient rescue in there, I'm likely, no offense, nutrient rescue, that's probably going to be one of the ones where, well, if you focus on getting in your greens and your...
01:00:33
and berries and stuff, probably don't need that nutrient rescue so much. Yeah. And that's how I look at it as well. As someone, if they're a bit time poor and I know they're throwing together a bit of protein powder and a bit of super greens powder into a smoothie in the morning, I'm like, well, it's better than getting no fruit and veggies in the morning. I think it's more of understanding where the person's at, whether they actually need that extra booster or not. Yeah. Yeah. Nice one. And Erin, if someone does
01:01:02
you know, find themselves like constantly sick. Like, the diet front, like what kind of recommendations are you going to make? And I get a lot of people who do get sick and they're like, what shall I eat while I'm sick? And of course we sort of go, oh, you know, to be honest, I mean, yes, I'm going to say things like chicken broth and the rest of it, but I'm like, you do sort of still need your protein and you kind of do need your vegetables, but you know, sometimes it's just a matter of getting in whatever you can.
01:01:32
I think that's really what like listening to body what you feel like eating, keeping it very whole foods base it based. Also, if listening to body means that you don't feel like eating, there's nothing wrong with cutting back what you eat, and maybe not getting your macros in for a few days, you're not going to starve to death. And I think there's the old saying of feed a cold and starve a fever. So like really understanding kind of
01:02:00
Listening to your body and using that as your guide if you don't feel like eating don't force it and it might be that you go the light chicken soups which actually have good research of like supporting your immune system as chicken vegetable soup with bone broth. But it was so if you actually feel hungry then actually eat your normal diet and actually just work on getting more fruits and veggies and you might bump up.
01:02:23
the antimicrobial sort of vegetables, things like your allium family, so garlic, onions, also getting in some ginger. So you can bring in more spices maybe into the way that you're cooking and maybe more soups if you don't really feel like eating. They're a good way to kind of pack in the nutrients without feeling like you're eating lots of food if you don't have any appetite. Because your appetite can change when you're sick. And I think listening to that and using it as like a guide of
01:02:51
Okay, how much do I need to eat? And knowing that as soon as you feel well again, which the quicker you can feel well again, the quicker you get back to your normal nutrition. And you can then get back into the normal balance of what you do every day. Nice one. Erin, are you currently taking clients? Yes. I always kind of keep the flow. Nice one. So can you let people know where they can find you and book in with you? So it's just Erin O'Hara, naturopath.
01:03:21
and my website's just erinohara.co.nz. I love it. And um obviously I will put links to both of those in the show notes. And Erin, you're such a wealth of information and you clearly know your stuff and so passionate about it as well, which I really appreciate when I talk to you. I love I could sit here and ask you questions all day. um So thank you so much for your time and we look forward to the next time we chat because I'm super keen to dive deep into that with all the new stuff.
01:03:51
Sounds great. Awesome Erin, thanks so much.
01:04:06
Alrighty, hopefully you enjoyed that love chatting to Erin and I'm really looking forward to having her on again so we can dive into some of the complexities around hormones and other topics in the integrative wellness and naturopathic space. Next week on the podcast, I speak to Ani Ferrando. He's a professor and his work is predominantly in protein metabolism. He is up there with the likes of Professor Don Lehman and
01:04:35
versus Stu Phillips, can't wait to bring that to you. Until then though, you can catch me over on Instagram, threads and X @mikkiwilliden in Facebook @mikkiwillidennutrition or head to my website, mikkiwilliden.com and I'll come on a one call with me. All right, team, you have the best week. See you later.