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This week on the Good Growing podcast, Ken and Chris sift through a survey that asks homeowners about water-saving products that can be used during water restrictions. The duo go down the list of products suggested by the survey and discuss whether these items would truly help save water and benefit your plants during a severe drought. After debating the merits of the survey’s products, Ken and Chris provide some horticulturally sound water-saving tips for our Midwest yards and gardens.
Watch us on YouTube https://youtu.be/oO3BYDiOzww
Skip to what you want to know:
03:02 The survey we are discussing today regarding water-saving products from the lawn and garden. Impacts from water restrictions.
07:36 Going through the survey results.
12:26 Natural fertilizers. Water Saving Product?
16:08 Soil Wetting Agents. Water Saving Product?
21:49 Compost. Water Saving Product?
25:28 Liquid lawn fertilizers and soil moisture monitors. Water Saving Product?
30:35 Artificial Turf. Water Saving Product?
33:53 Soil amendments. Water Saving Product?
36:56 Granular lawn fertilizer. Water Saving Product?
40:35 Herbicides and fungicides. Water Saving Product?
42:17 Polymer pellets (hydrogels). Water Saving Product?
47:11 Recommendations for saving water in Illinois gardens and landscapes.
47:32 Soil amendments based on soil test results.
48:27 Planting vegetables in blocks rather than rows.
48:35 Siting plants based on their water requirements.
49:51 Select plants adapted to your site conditions.
50:12 Shade cloth in vegetable gardens.
51:00 Enhance and protect shade trees.
52:55 Eliminate non-functional turf.
53:32 Break up impervious pavement surfaces.
54:55 Water collection devices.
56:02 What about graywater in Illinois?
56:48 Watering properly and efficiently.
57:59 Drip irrigation or soaker hoses.
58:51 Prioritizing what plants get watered and which are on their own.
01:02:07 Thank yous! See ya next week!
Mulch episode https://youtu.be/sqw4Cwr7wjo
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
Check out the Good Growing Blog: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowing
Subscribe to the weekly Good Growing email: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowingsubscribe
Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.
--
You can find us on most podcast platforms.
iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/good-growing/id1446630377
Tunein https://tunein.com/podcasts/Gardening/Good-Growing-p1187964/
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/202u3siWExE1tTqrVgtmCR
Vurbl https://vurbl.com/station/good-growing-4pljnNlUtyG/
Listen notes https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/good-growing-chris-enroth-cHLPMWpvEOG/
Ivy https://ivy.fm/podcast/good-growing-167902
Castbox https://castbox.fm/channel/Good-Growing-id4302614?country=us
Watch us on YouTube https://youtu.be/oO3BYDiOzww
Skip to what you want to know:
03:02 The survey we are discussing today regarding water-saving products from the lawn and garden. Impacts from water restrictions.
07:36 Going through the survey results.
12:26 Natural fertilizers. Water Saving Product?
16:08 Soil Wetting Agents. Water Saving Product?
21:49 Compost. Water Saving Product?
25:28 Liquid lawn fertilizers and soil moisture monitors. Water Saving Product?
30:35 Artificial Turf. Water Saving Product?
33:53 Soil amendments. Water Saving Product?
36:56 Granular lawn fertilizer. Water Saving Product?
40:35 Herbicides and fungicides. Water Saving Product?
42:17 Polymer pellets (hydrogels). Water Saving Product?
47:11 Recommendations for saving water in Illinois gardens and landscapes.
47:32 Soil amendments based on soil test results.
48:27 Planting vegetables in blocks rather than rows.
48:35 Siting plants based on their water requirements.
49:51 Select plants adapted to your site conditions.
50:12 Shade cloth in vegetable gardens.
51:00 Enhance and protect shade trees.
52:55 Eliminate non-functional turf.
53:32 Break up impervious pavement surfaces.
54:55 Water collection devices.
56:02 What about graywater in Illinois?
56:48 Watering properly and efficiently.
57:59 Drip irrigation or soaker hoses.
58:51 Prioritizing what plants get watered and which are on their own.
01:02:07 Thank yous! See ya next week!
Mulch episode https://youtu.be/sqw4Cwr7wjo
Contact us!
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu
Check out the Good Growing Blog: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowing
Subscribe to the weekly Good Growing email: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowingsubscribe
Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.
--
You can find us on most podcast platforms.
iTunes https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/good-growing/id1446630377
Tunein https://tunein.com/podcasts/Gardening/Good-Growing-p1187964/
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/202u3siWExE1tTqrVgtmCR
Vurbl https://vurbl.com/station/good-growing-4pljnNlUtyG/
Listen notes https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/good-growing-chris-enroth-cHLPMWpvEOG/
Ivy https://ivy.fm/podcast/good-growing-167902
Castbox https://castbox.fm/channel/Good-Growing-id4302614?country=us
Creators & Guests
What is Good Growing?
Talking all things horticulture, ecology, and design.
00:00:05:24 - 00:00:29:06
Speaker 2
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with the University of Illinois Extension coming at you from Macomb, Illinois. And we have got a great show for you today. Water saving products in the landscape. How do they work? How can we strive to be better stewards of our precious water resources that we have? And, you know, I'm not doing this by myself.
00:00:29:06 - 00:00:34:03
Speaker 2
I'm joined as always, every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson. Hey, Ken.
00:00:34:03 - 00:00:37:09
Speaker 3
Hello, Chris. Poser time this a little better now that we've.
00:00:37:09 - 00:00:38:09
Speaker 1
Gotten.
00:00:38:11 - 00:00:39:23
Speaker 3
All kinds of rain.
00:00:40:00 - 00:00:52:04
Speaker 2
I know this is weird talking about water saving tips after we got five inches of rain last night, I floated into work today.
00:00:52:06 - 00:01:03:02
Speaker 3
So you get far more than we did. I'd have stormed, but apparently I slept through it because I woke up this morning. I asked my wife if it rained. It answers. I guess it woke me up.
00:01:03:04 - 00:01:27:15
Speaker 2
I had nightmares of water in the basement and I was one of the fortunate people that didn't have to get the shop vac out this morning to clean things up. But I know there are others around me that there wringing out, drying out. And as I look out the window, it is cloudy and it is so humid, it's just fog.
00:01:27:18 - 00:01:42:19
Speaker 2
I just like this humid fog. I would say the humidity is almost like 100%. You walk outside and you just like my glasses. Somebody really intense and they have water droplets on them. It is gross.
00:01:42:19 - 00:01:44:06
Speaker 1
Out right now.
00:01:44:08 - 00:01:47:03
Speaker 2
As you would say, canned rice.
00:01:47:05 - 00:01:56:01
Speaker 3
Yes, it's not quite that bad, but it's been raining a little bit bad. Snap, I guess it was 100% humidity when it was raining, but.
00:01:56:03 - 00:01:57:06
Speaker 1
I'm not.
00:01:57:06 - 00:02:00:03
Speaker 3
Quite that gross. It's in the summer.
00:02:00:05 - 00:02:38:09
Speaker 2
That 99.99% humidity. So where we're sitting. But and this can also lead to plant problems. You know, we we often say like, well, dryness or drought that leads to certain plant problems, know, like powdery mildew. That can be an issue when you when you have stagnant environmental conditions with no free water, which free water being rainfall, precipitation. But now that we have a lot of humidity in the air and now that we also have a lot of free water also currently that can lead to all other kinds of pathogen ends, rots, things like that.
00:02:38:09 - 00:02:43:10
Speaker 2
So it's never a dull moment here in the Midwest.
00:02:43:12 - 00:02:45:08
Speaker 3
I think they call that job security.
00:02:45:10 - 00:02:46:21
Speaker 2
That's right. That's right.
00:02:46:23 - 00:02:48:15
Speaker 1
That's why they need us.
00:02:48:17 - 00:02:52:03
Speaker 2
Look at all the rust and smuts and spots.
00:02:52:03 - 00:02:53:07
Speaker 1
And.
00:02:53:09 - 00:02:55:21
Speaker 2
Draping and all that's.
00:02:55:23 - 00:02:57:19
Speaker 1
You know, that technical stuff.
00:02:57:22 - 00:03:00:12
Speaker 3
Beautiful, beautiful fungus and bacteria.
00:03:01:06 - 00:03:28:04
Speaker 2
that's right. Well, so can you had sent me a link to this survey I guess we share like it was a it's an axiom survey kind of sounds, it's more like for like commercial kind of products, things like that and like where to find them. But it was really interesting survey about what do consumers like homeowners know about water saving techniques in the landscape?
00:03:28:06 - 00:03:43:04
Speaker 2
And we should probably like preface this whole conversation about the survey itself that it was conducted really in the American Southwest, I think like what? California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado.
00:03:43:06 - 00:03:48:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that was yeah, all those states that get very dry.
00:03:48:14 - 00:03:51:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, those are it.
00:03:51:14 - 00:04:15:02
Speaker 2
Utah was missing from there. So they're like, well, blank spot there in the map. But yeah, really the American Southwest is where they were focusing on. So that that's kind of just to preface this conversation that we'll have. But but yeah so what caught you are I about this particular survey and you said Chris you need to read this and then we can both.
00:04:15:02 - 00:04:17:04
Speaker 1
Obsess over it.
00:04:17:06 - 00:04:38:00
Speaker 3
Know those things. You know, while we typically don't think of water restrictions and drought in the Midwest, it does happen from time to time. So I think before we started recording was 2011, 2012 here in Illinois. I wasn't back. I was still in Florida at the time. But there is some pretty severe drought across the state which led to water restrictions.
00:04:38:02 - 00:05:01:08
Speaker 3
And we still get droughts may not necessarily have water restrictions where we still do get dry, where watering becomes a concern or soil moisture becomes a concern of stuff. So while it's not necessarily interviewing people from the word west, I think still some of this stuff is still going to apply to us, maybe not to the same extent, but we still get dry and then still experience drought.
00:05:02:00 - 00:05:29:15
Speaker 2
Well, and a lot of the products that they mention in the survey are still marketed to people in the Midwest. And so weather, no matter where you live in the country, you know, these companies and it's even talked about in the survey like where would you find these products? Most of the stores that they list are big box stores that you could find, whether you're in the northeast, southeast, southwest, northwest, any part of the country, these big chain stores.
00:05:29:17 - 00:05:54:17
Speaker 2
And so all these products, they're all being shipped across the country, being marketed to us no matter where you're at. And I was in Illinois during the drought of 2012. It was my first year at extension, let me tell you, that was one heck of a year. You are correct. We started to see water restrictions being enacted by it really started with the smaller communities first in our area because a lot of them are on rural water.
00:05:54:19 - 00:06:34:03
Speaker 2
So it does kind of like being it's like a it's not like a residential sized well, but it's a well water and it's a drilled well. So it's larger for capacity to serve an area. But those rural wells, those water supplies were starting to dry out. And so that's when smaller communities that were really starting to started to then seep into larger communities, then would enact water restrictions where if you were out washing your car, you could get a ticket from the police.
00:06:34:03 - 00:06:59:06
Speaker 2
So that happened in 2012. There was a very serious drought for us and then 2013 was still a quasi drought that we had. I don't know if we got to the point of water restrictions, but it got pretty dry that year as well. So we had a stretch of dry weather. We've just we're we're sort of fighting our way out of dry weather again where we're sitting here in 2024.
00:06:59:08 - 00:07:03:11
Speaker 2
So it can happen. It probably will happen again.
00:07:03:13 - 00:07:22:22
Speaker 3
You know, I think know, we look at climate models and stuff for the future. You know, we're going to get warmer, wetter winters, wetter springs. But summers are supposed to be longer and potentially drier as well. So it could be something we see more of in the future, the more that flash drought type stuff.
00:07:22:24 - 00:07:34:09
Speaker 2
So we need to be prepared. We need to buy things to make our plants healthier and and more resilient to some of these these forces. Yes. No. No. Yes, maybe we'll find out.
00:07:34:10 - 00:07:36:04
Speaker 1
We'll talk.
00:07:36:10 - 00:07:56:12
Speaker 2
So I guess when we look at the survey, you know, again, a lot of folks are seeing these water restrictions occur in the middle of summer. Again, we're talking about the American southwest. So that's, you know, very hot, dry time period for them. But that would also be pretty typical for us here as well.
00:07:56:14 - 00:07:59:17
Speaker 1
And so, yeah, yeah.
00:07:59:19 - 00:08:02:04
Speaker 3
We get the added benefit of humidity.
00:08:02:06 - 00:08:03:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's correct.
00:08:03:15 - 00:08:38:00
Speaker 2
That's not a dry heat. Yeah, 100 degrees, 10% humidity Sounds great. yeah. So yeah. And it go the survey goes into a lot of other things including like, you know, what would you do in your home to help reduce water costs. They talk about shorter showers, you know, maybe trying to fill up the dishwasher, you know, during in doing all the dishes in one load, things like that.
00:08:38:00 - 00:09:03:06
Speaker 2
So and so there's some conservation practices happening in the home. But then it does show the one question asked, how concerned are you about your lawn and garden plants being damaged during water bans and it says it's almost 50%, but 43.9% say that they are concerned about losing landscape plants during water restrictions.
00:09:03:06 - 00:09:28:09
Speaker 3
worth you? Very concerned. 21.6 Highly concerned. So with almost two thirds of the people. Yeah. At least some concerned about losing weight, nothing. And I think rightfully with the problem was people listening to this are gardeners. I mean you spend a lot of time, effort and money into building that landscape. You don't necessarily want to see it all die on you.
00:09:28:10 - 00:09:31:18
Speaker 3
And when it gets dry and you can't water anymore.
00:09:32:16 - 00:09:53:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think it would be really hard for folks in Illinois. I'm I'll speak for my own, for myself. It would be hard for me to be like, why can't I water? I live in Illinois, you know, I want to grow a tomato plant trying to be more self-sufficient. But I'm also hooked up to the public water supply.
00:09:53:00 - 00:10:11:19
Speaker 2
And I yeah, you got to follow the rules to make sure everyone's got enough water. It would be a tough pill to swallow for a lot of folks here who are so used to watering whenever we feel like it are washing our car, just, you know, pressure, washing the deck or the house,
00:10:11:19 - 00:10:48:15
Speaker 2
So the survey then kind of dovetails into water saving products. It asks folks, are they aware that are water saving products for use in the landscape? Almost 60% say no, they are not aware of that. So that is an interesting number. So almost two thirds are concerned about losing plants and water restrictions. And then we have almost two thirds aren't even aware that there's products out there that might help, might help, might talk about this B-word.
00:10:48:15 - 00:10:49:06
Speaker 1
There might.
00:10:49:10 - 00:11:11:19
Speaker 2
Yes, Might. Yeah. I think some of these just require a few things, a discussion. And then that next question is it asks them. So it looks like the survey lists out some of these water saving product categories. Ask them to check any of the following product categories that they think would help in their lawn and garden to use less water.
00:11:11:21 - 00:11:34:23
Speaker 2
So that's kind of a even a question itself is is a little difficult really to to frame a whole study around. But because it's you want to try to simplify as much as you can, otherwise there's just too many variables, too many factors to consider with this type of question. But it's pretty open ended. It really just wants to get generalized feedback from the public.
00:11:35:04 - 00:12:03:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, some of these other we'll get into them and some of them are kind of interesting too. And it's like, does I'm wearing more? Is this do you think these work? Not necessarily. These things are going to work, but do you think this doing this X, Y, or Z would help conserve water as well? So I think some of these maybe they all are, but some of them, when you look at them at first, it's like, I don't know how that's going to save water.
00:12:03:08 - 00:12:05:22
Speaker 1
But no. Well.
00:12:05:24 - 00:12:58:20
Speaker 2
Humans, we like to do things and we like to at least feel like we are helping our plants. And so even if that action really long term has no benefit to our landscape plants, the fact that they at one point in time we did something and we felt good about it. So I think is this first product. So this is the one that people voted that they believed would most commonly help them save water in their lawn and garden, and that is natural fertilizers, which that is also a very broad category of things, a natural fertilizer can should we break down what that could be?
00:12:58:20 - 00:13:09:03
Speaker 2
I suppose what's a natural fertilizer? And then just for perspective, 47.2% of people said this is what they would use for their their landscape.
00:13:09:05 - 00:13:39:10
Speaker 3
Yeah. So not, I think, natural. I think, you know, your announcement that actually these are coming from organic once living source is not necessarily organic and because that gets into also that's processes and all of that but you know manures, bone meal, things like that. So so coming from from to living things is kind of less how I think of these natural fertilizers and kind of thinking about how this could help conserve water.
00:13:39:12 - 00:13:59:21
Speaker 3
Well and this is going to depend on on the fertilizer using some of these are going to be adding organic matter to the soils or help build that organic matter which can help retain moisture. A lot of user or at times a lot lower analysis. So you're not getting this big flush of fertilizer, causing a big flush of growth, which is going to be much more tender and require more water.
00:13:59:23 - 00:14:12:10
Speaker 3
So you're still getting them the nutrients, but you're not forcing a lot of new growth, which would need which would require more moist, more soil or more more moisture in order to sustain that plant.
00:14:12:12 - 00:14:13:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:14:13:16 - 00:14:42:08
Speaker 2
And as you get a lot of that succulent tender new growth which can be triggered frequently by a synthetic, which usually a lot of those synthetics have a high nitrogen, not always, but sometimes it's very common, especially when you're growing, you know, applying it to something like a lawn. A lot of those are tailored to lawns, which require a lot of nitrogen, but nitrogen or I should say fertilizers in general, they trigger growth responses.
00:14:42:08 - 00:15:06:23
Speaker 2
They are not plant food. And so those growth responses use up energy that have to be recovered through photosynthesis. And depending on your growing conditions, sometimes they're not. You have a plant that should be more in full sun, but it's more part shade. It can't photosynthesize as much as it needs. And then you actually wind up in an energy deficit with that plant.
00:15:06:23 - 00:15:43:23
Speaker 2
When you apply too much fertilizer to it because it can't recover those energy costs with photosynthesis. He had natural fertilizers. Can you mention like an about an organic based or carbon based byproducts or once living materials? The other thing that also comes to mind is like is mined minerals like mined material that it you know, so rock phosphate, you know, some things like that, a lot of people will turn to Epsom salts or gypsum.
00:15:44:00 - 00:16:08:01
Speaker 2
Those are mined minerals. And so people might think of some of those as fertilizers. But that yeah, it the way that I agree with Ken, the way that it could reduce water use is the trickling of nutrients or the lower growth response, which means you don't need as much water to support that growth.
00:16:08:10 - 00:16:26:04
Speaker 3
And my next one on the list and this was over 40% as well, are soil wetting agents. And this is one I'm not really familiar with that until we started looking into this was not one I never really heard of or considered before.
00:16:26:06 - 00:16:36:07
Speaker 2
So I guarantee you views that though can if you've ever bought a bag of potting mix, more than likely it has been included in there.
00:16:36:11 - 00:17:07:21
Speaker 2
So I think the way that soil wetting agents operate is that they take something that is hydrophobic or that repels water like peat moss in a in a potting mix. So peat moss, if it dries out, it is really difficult to get it to accept water molecules once it dries out. But when those companies bag up the potting soil, they mix it with Per and all the other stuff that goes into a potting mix, they put it on the shelf.
00:17:07:23 - 00:17:41:05
Speaker 2
Might sit there for months. Well, what if it dries out? Well, they use wetting agents in that potting mix to help keep that peat moss hydrated so that it will accept water molecules more readily. And so it does function well as a potting mix amendment. So in our containers or in our pots, it can help us use less water because it allows that peat moss to absorb that water.
00:17:41:07 - 00:18:17:00
Speaker 2
And so so that is commercially where it's used quite a bit. I really haven't seen much in the application of putting these into the soil itself. There might be companies that create these products for that use, but my guess is that it probably doesn't last forever. Now there is a home remedy workaround, which we do not recommend, is that these wetting agents operate very similar to soap.
00:18:17:02 - 00:18:45:16
Speaker 2
You know, the soap binds to the oils on your skin, then you gets hit with water washes, all that dirt and grime away, but it binds to it. So it allows, it allows you to break into that, that hydrophilic grime on your skin. And that soap then can be washed away by water. So there are these home remedies online that say, just throw some shampoo on your soil and it's the same effect as a soil wetting agent.
00:18:45:17 - 00:19:12:03
Speaker 2
No, don't do that. That's not what it is designed or ever been intended for. Shampoo is made for hair and beards, not dirt. They don't put it on your soil. That's not what it is ever designed to do. And there's also lots of salts and other and other things in shampoo. So we don't want to be applying that to our soils.
00:19:12:05 - 00:19:51:15
Speaker 3
And I came across something from from Washington State University. So, you know, talking about getting away from potting mix, an integral of your your soils so sandy soils a lot times may you run into issues with its high organic matter or soils that go from really wet to very dry and cycle. Sometimes you get that water repellent see on there but they're saying you know, then they did some tests on this and while it may help to some extent, most soils don't really get into this the being hydrophobic or repelling water.
00:19:51:15 - 00:20:17:08
Speaker 3
In a lot of cases they actually have some way you can determine it, see if your soil does have any repellent. See, I'll just read this from this article that we and we can link to this in the show notes. Simplest way to determine the degree of soils, water repellent see, is to place several droplets of water on a sample of air dried, disturbed or powdered soil of it takes longer than 5 seconds for the water droplets to penetrate the soil.
00:20:17:10 - 00:20:42:01
Speaker 3
The soil may have some degree of water repellent and are surfactant or soil. Penetrant water may provide some benefits if it flattens out and absorbs in. And within 5 seconds it's considered normal and doesn't have water repellent balances. So I would get myself into trouble for saying that. I would venture to guess most of the soils in Illinois are going to have this issue.
00:20:42:01 - 00:21:04:04
Speaker 3
But I can if you were concerned about it, you could try that little test there and see potentially maybe if this is something that would help. But I think there's probably other ways we can address this in the landscapes. Then using these wetting agency and like you said, it's probably it's kind of a short term fix, not necessarily a long term solution for some of this stuff.
00:21:04:04 - 00:21:22:24
Speaker 3
So that our guys are talking about, you know, blue infiltration can be caused by other things other than repellents. Yes. If you got really heavy soils, high clay content, especially one that gets dried out, that it really gets in that kind of baked that can kind of be hard to get. Water is not sort of repelling it, but it's hard to get that water.
00:21:22:24 - 00:21:49:13
Speaker 3
And compaction can also lead to issues with water getting into soil and and agri from tillage or, you know, tilling the soil. Well, when it's wet and and kind of destroying that structure. And so so there's other other ways you can do it. So you know adding organic matter being careful when you're tilling and not compacting soils can help prevent some of this compaction rebalancing as well, too.
00:21:49:15 - 00:22:21:24
Speaker 2
So speaking of adding organic matter, the third option, still over 40%, just barely 40.9% here that people would pick for helping save water in their home landscape is compost. Now, I, I am a big fan of compost. I really do like compost. Compost is a type of organic matter. I used to recommend people to use it more than I probably should have.
00:22:22:01 - 00:22:50:04
Speaker 2
I would say, Let me back up just a second and let's do soil test. So if I could go back to the last ten years and all those people that I said, I'd just throw some compost on it, that'll help. That'll fix it. We probably need to know what the organic matter content is of your soil to begin with because organic matter can help to at least hold onto water.
00:22:50:04 - 00:23:13:14
Speaker 2
And so this was a some numbers when I was teaching with Richard Henschel. He's retired now, but he gave me these numbers that we would use when we're talking about turf, grass and organic matter content of the soil. So is what he said. So 1% of soil organic matter holds one third gallon of plant available water per cubic foot.
00:23:13:16 - 00:23:40:11
Speaker 2
So if you have a cubic foot like one cube of soil and we have 1% of that is organic matter, we are holding on to one third of a gallon of plant available water. That's significant. Now, when we look at sort of Illinois as a whole, what is our average organic matter? I think it ranges anywhere from like 3 to 6%, I think in terms of that.
00:23:40:13 - 00:24:05:07
Speaker 2
So but that's that's pretty significant. So if we have 3% soil organic matter, we have one gallon of plain available water in that cubic foot of soil. And so that so organic matter is beneficial, but you can overdo it just like everything in life, everything in moderation. Right? Can we we can always overdo it.
00:24:05:09 - 00:24:06:12
Speaker 3
Exactly.
00:24:06:12 - 00:24:16:15
Speaker 3
Well, so even with that, you know, going back to that, those wetting agents, you know, one of the reasons, one of the reasons why the soil and get hydrophobic is you have too much organic matter in there.
00:24:16:17 - 00:24:18:04
Speaker 1
Yeah yeah.
00:24:18:06 - 00:24:47:10
Speaker 2
And we learned when we talked with local food educators at Grant is up in Cook County how sometimes this excess compost a use in some some of our urban gardens and landscapes and farms is leading to a lot more pollution in terms of runoff that's going into those storm sewer systems. Just because people are adding so much compost on a on an annual, sometimes it is.
00:24:47:10 - 00:25:11:04
Speaker 2
So if you're like an urban farmer who's flipping a bed two, maybe three times the growing season, you're adding a couple inches of compost. Maybe that is a common practice. A lot of that compost can't be used up by plants all all at the same time or or isn't incorporated in the soil out of it can wash off into our storm sewer system and then into our rivers and streams and lakes.
00:25:11:06 - 00:25:28:23
Speaker 2
So we can't overdo it. That's why we always say, Well, that's why I'm saying now let's do a soil test, let's find out what's your organic matter percentage is to begin with. And if it's pretty high, you know, maybe we don't need to apply as much organic matter. In this case, the form of compost.
00:25:29:07 - 00:25:48:22
Speaker 3
All right. So next to coming in, it's 39 and 37%. We've got soil water sensors. So these are going to be something how much moisture is available on the soil. And then liquid lawn fertilizers. So how do how do these help?
00:25:48:24 - 00:26:24:10
Speaker 2
Well, I think the soil water sensors can help If you have maybe an irrigation system that is tied into them that can kick on when that soil moisture is low. I would say in terms of the technology that is possible, that can measure soil moisture and maybe the the water needs of the plant, you can get a pretty cheap soil water sensor and and do the job.
00:26:24:12 - 00:26:53:19
Speaker 2
But there's a lot of cool technology out there, especially in the American west, where water is more of an issue, where the land grants are more plugged in to and make public evapotranspiration rates. So that is evapotranspiration. That is the water that the plant is taking out of the soil, bringing through its whole plant body and then just evaporating out its leaves.
00:26:53:21 - 00:27:26:18
Speaker 2
And the more and the higher that rate is, the more water is being used. It means the more water that plant needs. And that can all be measured with weather, temperature, wind, all this stuff. And so you can use that evapotranspiration rate combined with a water sensor and then combine that with a forecast, a weather forecast to be like it's going to rain in a couple hours, we don't need a cook on the irrigation system so you can build a very powerful, smart irrigation system.
00:27:26:20 - 00:27:29:19
Speaker 2
We don't see that very much in Illinois, though.
00:27:29:21 - 00:27:34:15
Speaker 3
I'm not sure how practical that is for most. Let's you have got really sandy soils or something.
00:27:34:17 - 00:27:36:00
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:27:36:02 - 00:27:45:15
Speaker 2
The only thing the only time I can definitely see that working is in this does drive me a little bit crazy is when I drive by and I see a lawn irrigation going off while.
00:27:45:17 - 00:27:46:17
Speaker 1
It's raining.
00:27:46:19 - 00:27:49:18
Speaker 2
And I'm just drives me a little nuts and like.
00:27:49:20 - 00:27:51:21
Speaker 1
Turn it off, turn it off.
00:27:51:23 - 00:28:19:12
Speaker 2
So that it is that idea though, that when we're irrigating a lot of our, our, our garden crops or landscape plants, we are using potable water. So this is water that we have used to with we've taken dirty water and used our our human brains and engineering to clean it so that we can drink it and then we throw it on the ground again.
00:28:19:12 - 00:28:30:19
Speaker 2
So it drives me a little bit mad, but I'm out there with the hose in my hand just as much as anybody else, if not more than anyone else. So but I'm aware of the contradictions.
00:28:30:21 - 00:28:31:22
Speaker 3
I'm right there with you.
00:28:31:24 - 00:28:33:05
Speaker 1
You know, I.
00:28:33:07 - 00:28:41:11
Speaker 3
Was watering urine the other day while I was sprinkling, but we didn't get another rain for it to be to water ourselves. So it still needed to be watered.
00:28:41:13 - 00:28:45:06
Speaker 2
That's why you were watering so that it would rain.
00:28:45:08 - 00:28:46:17
Speaker 1
Exactly. Yeah.
00:28:46:19 - 00:29:08:16
Speaker 2
But. So I guess the liquid lawn fertilizer, what that is, that's just a foliar feeding. So that's a some it's a fertilizer that's absorbed by the Leafs, by the leaf surface of the plant. I'm guessing there's probably lots of different types of liquid lawn fertilizers out there, just like natural fertilizers. There's probably types of liquid lawn fertilizers that are natural fertilizers.
00:29:08:16 - 00:29:26:20
Speaker 2
So some of these are bleeding into each other. And yeah, I'm not quite sure how a liquid lawn fertilizer would necessarily save you water. I would have to have someone explain that one to me.
00:29:26:22 - 00:29:29:20
Speaker 3
Sure. I was hoping you knew since you're the one person.
00:29:29:22 - 00:29:43:15
Speaker 2
Well, the one thing is you wouldn't. So sometimes fertilizers have to be watered in. Maybe you don't have to water in the liquid lawn fertilizer. That's. That's the only thing I could think of.
00:29:43:17 - 00:29:44:09
Speaker 1
Yeah. Or the.
00:29:44:09 - 00:29:47:03
Speaker 3
Lower analysis again, I'm not sure.
00:29:47:05 - 00:30:13:22
Speaker 2
Or the lower analysis, but it's still going to trigger a growth response in the plants. You're not necessarily feeding the soil biology in this either. So you're not I don't think you're you're not stimulating soil activity, which could maybe help increase soil fertility or organic matter or anything like that. So I'm not quite sure how that fits into it, other than you don't have to water it in.
00:30:13:24 - 00:30:27:13
Speaker 2
But I think you should. I probably need to go read some products online. I bet several of them want you to water them after a certain amount of time so that it's not sitting on the plant leaves.
00:30:27:15 - 00:30:29:15
Speaker 3
That's probably a good buzz building.
00:30:29:17 - 00:30:30:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:30:15 - 00:30:31:19
Speaker 2
Read your directions.
00:30:31:19 - 00:30:35:21
Speaker 1
Closely for everything.
00:30:35:23 - 00:30:40:22
Speaker 2
Well, Ken, this next one kind of fits into stuff we've already talked about, but it.
00:30:40:24 - 00:30:42:03
Speaker 1
It.
00:30:42:05 - 00:31:04:22
Speaker 2
We'll say it anyway. Really? Kind of in the middle of the road here almost is. wait, I skipped one. Sorry. The one I hate the most. This one that folks say 33% say will save them. Water is artificial turf, but be kidding me. absolutely.
00:31:04:22 - 00:31:07:10
Speaker 1
Not.
00:31:07:12 - 00:31:08:07
Speaker 2
You don't have to water it.
00:31:08:07 - 00:31:14:06
Speaker 3
I guess you don't have to water. But I figure I've never been on artificial turf. This stuff gets hot.
00:31:14:08 - 00:31:17:09
Speaker 1
Uncomfortably hot.
00:31:17:11 - 00:31:41:01
Speaker 3
So I guess maybe if you've got nothing but rocks around you, maybe it's not. Won't be too big of a deal. But if you've got other plants growing around that, I mean, to me, like, it's like a blacktop, I think with the heat, it's absorbing and radiating off. That may lead you to be watering the stuff around it even more than you normally would be.
00:31:41:03 - 00:31:53:21
Speaker 3
Know I don't irrigate my turfs. I don't play. I guess if you were watering your lawn or if you lived in an area where you don't get enough rain to support turf, perhaps Southwest.
00:31:53:23 - 00:31:54:11
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:31:54:13 - 00:31:58:10
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think in the Midwest.
00:31:58:12 - 00:32:00:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:32:00:04 - 00:32:11:18
Speaker 3
I wouldn't do it. I'll put it that way. It's just that if nothing else, just because it gets so hot, I'm kind of like composite deck boards. They get so much hotter than than wood. More to do.
00:32:11:20 - 00:32:35:21
Speaker 2
And then eventually they fade. So you got to think about the life cycle of this product. And I do I don't know these numbers, like how much gallons of water does it take to create artificial turf? I'm not sure. They do get dusty, They get dirty. They have to get rinsed off every so often or using a like a backpack blower or leaf blower to to clean them off.
00:32:35:22 - 00:33:03:04
Speaker 2
So you do need to expend resources to keep them manicured until five years go by, maybe seven or ten years go by if you're lucky. And then you have a faded, ugly looking artificial lawn and now you have to put it in the landfill and go get another artificial lawn and reinstall it all over again. Maybe few people want to do that.
00:33:03:04 - 00:33:31:22
Speaker 2
They like the they like the appearance of that. I'm of the personal opinion that we have enough plastic that we're trying to keep out of our bodies and landscapes. We don't need to be adding any more than we necessarily need to. So I a big no to me for artificial turf, at least here in the Midwest, I, I don't think it's really practical in the Midwest to be Yeah.
00:33:31:23 - 00:33:34:01
Speaker 1
To to just.
00:33:34:03 - 00:33:36:08
Speaker 2
I don't think it work well.
00:33:36:09 - 00:33:37:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:33:37:06 - 00:33:47:19
Speaker 3
Even though it seems like no maintenance there is still going to be maintenance and replacement and yeah, maybe we're missing something, but I'm on board with you if.
00:33:47:21 - 00:33:48:19
Speaker 1
It.
00:33:48:21 - 00:33:50:06
Speaker 3
Doesn't make a lot of sense.
00:33:50:08 - 00:33:53:00
Speaker 1
No, I don't think so. Yeah.
00:33:53:15 - 00:33:56:12
Speaker 3
All right. Next up, we have another very broad.
00:33:56:12 - 00:33:57:20
Speaker 1
Category.
00:33:57:22 - 00:34:02:12
Speaker 3
Of almost 27% of people think will help us soil amendments.
00:34:04:02 - 00:34:07:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, those are good. May I May.
00:34:07:24 - 00:34:33:07
Speaker 3
Make them one of them of what? You will say. You know, compost could be a soil amendment. Natural fertilizers, organic matter. Yeah. I think we have covered a lot of this already. Amending your soil as it's needed could potentially help us with water retention and stuff. So I was adding more to add to that or.
00:34:33:09 - 00:34:34:05
Speaker 1
Not.
00:34:34:07 - 00:35:08:12
Speaker 2
Soil amendment is is is anything you add to your soil that might change the chemical or physical properties? Very often it's temporary. We think we can permanently change soil, but to do that you really need a bulldozer. You need some like heavy equipment. You know me in my back yard with a shovel. I don't have I don't have the strength or to change my soil long term.
00:35:08:14 - 00:35:36:12
Speaker 2
Like I can't you know, it's just the scale of soil under my feet versus the scale of my two hands and a digging shovel. Can't do it. You need heavy equipment to really alter that physical and chemical state of your soil. And very often it is to a detriment when us humans get involved with heavy equipment and soil.
00:35:36:14 - 00:36:04:02
Speaker 2
So yeah, and I understand that a lot of newly developed areas, they have no topsoil. It has either been mixed in or scraped off and sold. So you are maybe growing a garden or trees in subsoil. And so you need something like compost or some type of soil amendment to perhaps help that plant get off to a better start.
00:36:04:04 - 00:36:15:22
Speaker 2
But start with a soil test to know where to begin. It's it gives you a some jumping off point as opposed to just.
00:36:15:24 - 00:36:16:11
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:36:16:13 - 00:36:18:12
Speaker 2
Jumping blindly.
00:36:18:14 - 00:36:22:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. It took a very long time for the topsoil to become what it's like.
00:36:23:23 - 00:36:24:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:36:24:24 - 00:36:30:17
Speaker 3
And just dumping some something on there once a year isn't going to. Isn't to change.
00:36:30:17 - 00:36:34:11
Speaker 1
Up that permanently.
00:36:34:13 - 00:36:52:06
Speaker 2
And it always wants to be what it wants to be. You know, a lot of folks want to try to change the soil. It can work for a little bit and a little bit for us. Maybe that's a long time, a year or two. Is that a long time can be the soil that is a blink of an eye.
00:36:52:08 - 00:36:53:20
Speaker 1
So just just.
00:36:53:20 - 00:36:56:24
Speaker 2
Keep keep that all in perspective.
00:36:56:24 - 00:37:22:19
Speaker 2
So this next one, so 20%, almost 21% of people say this will help them granular on fertilizers. And so we've gone from natural fertilizers, liquid lawn fertilizers to now granular lawn fertilizers. And very often these are ones that might need to be watered in. You've got to reach product labels to know what to do.
00:37:22:21 - 00:38:01:20
Speaker 2
And I think it's important to know or to say that your plants do not care where their nutrients come from, like they whether it's organic or natural source or a synthetic or unnatural source, they don't care. To them, it's nitrogen. It does not change how they respond to it. I suppose one of the ways that changes is that when we look at natural, which I don't like that word, natural fertilizers, organic.
00:38:01:22 - 00:38:32:05
Speaker 2
Now this still has a lot of what should I say? Can I got one in mine but I'm non synthetic. Non synthetic. So here's what I like to say. Carbon based fertilizers, they have a carbon molecule chain on them and that carbon too soil microbes is protein and that can help stimulate soil biology. That that's like the only difference.
00:38:32:05 - 00:38:48:06
Speaker 2
Plants don't care. They're like the honey badger. They don't care. So they they respond the same to either possibly a carbon based fertilizer or and stimulate a bit of soil biology.
00:38:48:06 - 00:39:06:12
Speaker 3
something like you're like asthma, so you wouldn't be putting that online. But some of those that have that, that polymer on there that just makes it a slow release that could be of some benefit because again, you're slowly releasing that instead of getting a big flush of a fertilizer, all of a sudden.
00:39:06:14 - 00:39:07:12
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:39:07:14 - 00:39:35:07
Speaker 2
And I guess in that case too, though, like you need to have natural processes break down that that polymer that's synthetic coat. So yeah I just you know plants don't don't care They weather where their fertilizer comes from. I guess maybe the question folks need to ask is how those particular fertilizers are sourced. What has the least environmental impact?
00:39:35:09 - 00:40:01:23
Speaker 2
A lot of those ocean based products like the kelp, that's could be pretty destructive when it comes to how kelp can be harvested out of the ocean, like clear cut in a forest. There's guano products. How do you harvest guano? Well, you got to go into a cave with bats, disrupt all that, all that, all that. I mean, you just got to think about where these things come from.
00:40:02:00 - 00:40:08:17
Speaker 3
And I'd argue, too. Do you even need it? Just fertilize it. Don't necessarily need to know.
00:40:08:19 - 00:40:32:22
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. Especially until annoyance. We got some good soil here in annoyance. We don't need to necessarily follow the industrial egg model of how to grow things there in a whole different model, a different way of doing stuff. That is not how we need to necessarily be doing things in a backyard setting.
00:40:32:24 - 00:40:34:10
Speaker 3
Do your soil test.
00:40:34:12 - 00:40:35:09
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:40:35:17 - 00:41:06:04
Speaker 2
So these next two I guess, all lumped these next two together and we're getting to the bottom of the pile here, but people listing herbicides and fungicides as methods to reduce water in their landscape. And so can I. Partially drawing a blank here. What could be how can we how can an herbicide or a fungicide reduce our water use and our landscapes herbicides?
00:41:06:06 - 00:41:31:17
Speaker 3
The thing could be reducing the competition for the water. So you're getting rid of some of those weeds that would potentially be taking up water again. Yeah, transpiring and stuff I think would be one way. But if, you know, if it's just bare soil, it's still going to evaporate. Allosaurus. So I think you'd want to partner that with a mulch or some kind of ground cover to keep their that moisture in there because you can kill all the weeds.
00:41:31:17 - 00:41:52:14
Speaker 3
And if you still have bare soil evaporate out, there's nothing slowing that down. I mean for herbicide, just the one thing I can think of is there's the reduced competition for moisture, fungicides and then you got healthier plants.
00:41:52:16 - 00:41:54:24
Speaker 2
There you go. That's all I had was stress.
00:41:55:01 - 00:41:58:18
Speaker 3
I mean, it gets bad enough the plants will die and you'll have to worry about watering themself.
00:41:58:23 - 00:42:07:16
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. Yes. If yeah, if your plants go to fungal issue, then you don't have to worry about watering it when it's dead.
00:42:07:18 - 00:42:09:10
Speaker 3
Robin up The approach most people want to take.
00:42:09:10 - 00:42:09:18
Speaker 1
Though.
00:42:09:18 - 00:42:11:10
Speaker 2
Probably a best, not a great.
00:42:11:10 - 00:42:13:08
Speaker 3
Approach. You get lots of good pictures first and.
00:42:13:09 - 00:42:14:08
Speaker 1
Send them to us.
00:42:14:10 - 00:42:18:01
Speaker 2
We're not helping with that suggestion.
00:42:18:06 - 00:42:24:21
Speaker 3
All right, last one we've got on the list. At 12.6% of people thinking this could be helpful.
00:42:24:23 - 00:42:27:21
Speaker 1
Are polymer pellets.
00:42:27:23 - 00:42:37:16
Speaker 3
So the good would be those hydrogels or are things you would put in the soil to help retain moisture?
00:42:39:20 - 00:43:09:02
Speaker 2
Which, by the way, is the same thing that is in baby diapers. So when it's in baby diapers, it is this dry kind of granular thing. But then, you know, they do their thing or in this case, you put water on it and they absorb that material. They they turn into this gel like substance, like a jello, almost type substance, or can I say jello?
00:43:09:04 - 00:43:10:12
Speaker 2
Is that a product.
00:43:10:14 - 00:43:11:18
Speaker 1
A gelatin.
00:43:11:20 - 00:43:45:16
Speaker 2
A gelatin like substance? And what is marketed there is these hydrogels absorb that water and then they release it over time to the plant roots. And that I've always been a little suspicious of that. To me, it sounds like they're competing with the plant roots for water, but I, I don't I'm not an expert in this, so I'm not.
00:43:45:19 - 00:43:46:18
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:43:46:20 - 00:44:15:00
Speaker 3
Yeah. I came across something from University of Georgia saying they don't they don't know. They're not releasing the water to the planets, them smelling contracting which helps kind of break up loose in the soil, which makes it easier for roots to grow in. And yeah, that larger root system which is able to access more water. So this what they're saying is it's not necessarily they're releasing that their water to the plants, it's just loosening the soil.
00:44:15:02 - 00:44:54:01
Speaker 2
But they create more pore space in the soil, which can be occupied by water. Okay. I guess I can see that. But as they they break down and I found from Washington State University this this I think it's a literature review of different studies that show that Hydrogels they can technically be listed as an organic compound, I guess, but they do break down after about 2 to 5 years and some of their some of those then chemicals that they break into.
00:44:54:03 - 00:45:30:02
Speaker 2
One of them is acrylamide, which is known as a known deadly neurotoxin. And they also list potential carcinogen. So that is one of the things that it degrades into, which is a risk to people inhaling that or absorbing it through their skin so that that's not necessarily something you want to be adding to your soil that will, over a few years, break down into it as a toxic substance.
00:45:30:04 - 00:45:59:20
Speaker 2
There are starch based hydrogels out there that are not made with that poly acrylamide hydrogel. So if you are in the market for this and you're looking for a hydrogel, I guess you know it might be a starch based one would be a more recommended one than necessarily a again poly acrylamide based type gel.
00:45:59:22 - 00:46:21:11
Speaker 3
That looks like fertilizer salts fertilizers will help speed up that the degradation of those hydrogels too. And I think one place you see this I don't know if you see as much as it used to it several years ago you see quite a bit is in potting soil with the water saving crystals or whatever, which I would assume is probably something like these.
00:46:21:11 - 00:46:33:05
Speaker 3
Hydrogels. Now again, the is sort of to retain that moisture in those. But again, don't I must solon on how well those actually work.
00:46:33:07 - 00:46:50:02
Speaker 2
I really am not either. I guess I only thing I can say is that I don't know in terms of an official recommendation, but I know that I, I wouldn't use it because again, there's better ways to do this are not better and maybe I shouldn't say better.
00:46:50:02 - 00:46:57:12
Speaker 2
There are ways maybe that are that are more horticultural sound that we can use.
00:46:57:12 - 00:47:18:13
Speaker 2
So things that maybe do have a bit more of a long term or lasting impact or that at least have a broader positive benefits on plant health and soil health that that we can do. So this isn't all just looking at this list products. We have a couple recommendations of how we can save water here in the Midwest.
00:47:18:13 - 00:47:32:09
Speaker 2
So what are some what's the first thing that maybe comes to mind that that, you know, could help reduce what we might need to buy at the grocery store or the garden center or something like that.
00:47:32:11 - 00:47:42:24
Speaker 3
But I think some of what we talked about is there are amending soils adding or the integrated matter. If if you don't have excessive amounts already or start adding that caveat now from now on.
00:47:43:01 - 00:47:44:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:47:44:10 - 00:48:02:04
Speaker 3
Adding that and that was you know if you got sandy soils that are organic matter all pertain to soil moisture. If you have really heavy clay soils that can help break up that loose in that soil a little bit, make it easier for plants to grow mulching. I think we've got a whole podcast on mulch, so. yeah.
00:48:02:08 - 00:48:27:20
Speaker 3
So I do in-depth in here, but again, you know, helping retain that soil moisture, you've got that barrier between the soil and the soya. But yeah, it makes it more difficult for that stuff too to evaporate the moisture to evaporate out of the soil because you've got that barrier retaining that moisture. So if you you wouldn't have to water as long when you're in your landscape beds, in your vegetable gardens.
00:48:27:22 - 00:48:48:19
Speaker 3
One thing I came across were vegetable gardens, you know, planting in blocks rather than rows. So you've got them a little more compact and and planting stuff based on their water requirements. I think a lot of times in, in our landscapes and vegetable, we vegetable gardens, we treat everything it needs the same amount of water. I'll miss that necessarily case somethings are definitely going need more water than others.
00:48:48:19 - 00:49:03:22
Speaker 3
So planting stuff in blocks, things with similar water requirements so you can have your really heavy water need plants together so you can wear those more often, but those that don't need as much water separate them a little bit so you're not watering.
00:49:03:22 - 00:49:05:03
Speaker 1
Them.
00:49:05:05 - 00:49:09:04
Speaker 3
As often and not using water that you necessarily need to use on those.
00:49:09:04 - 00:49:41:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think we water sometimes too much. We just maybe we baby our plants too much. I don't know what it what I have to classify but yeah, I think in many cases we probably overwater and in many instances it is dependent upon your soil, soil texture. How well-drained is your soil? Again, if you live over in Mason County, Illinois, you are growing on a beach.
00:49:41:22 - 00:50:03:07
Speaker 2
It is sand. And if you don't irrigate your vegetable garden or your shrubs or whatever, you are going to have some crispy plants. You could also select plants adapted to those soils and to those conditions. That's another thing that's actually one of the parts of Illinois, one of the few parts where I see prickly pear cactus growing wild.
00:50:03:07 - 00:50:11:09
Speaker 2
It's a native Illinois plant. You don't often see that growing wild out in the prairie, but it does grow there.
00:50:11:09 - 00:50:41:21
Speaker 3
one thing that I've never really considered and I came across those in vegetable gardens putting up shake off like a throw shade cloth, especially when it's really hot like it was earlier this week. Yeah. You know, helping that reduce some of their sun intensity, some of that heat can reduce the amount of transpiration and in evaporation from soils and from plants and stuff, kind of reduce some of that water need with that shake if you don't get too much on there because especially for vegetable crops, most of those they need for sun.
00:50:41:23 - 00:51:00:19
Speaker 3
But like a 30%, especially kind of in the afternoon when we get that really hot temperature that can cool things off. I think it can serve you. I mean, you're probably not going to be saving a tremendous amount of water, but you know, every little bit helps and doesn't require a whole lot of effort to put out that shade cloth necessarily.
00:51:00:21 - 00:51:30:17
Speaker 2
Well, I think that's a great point. Shade in general. So your trees can help to cool an area. I think this is where I get into this contradiction of turf, grass versus trees. So a lot of folks will say, well, Chris, you've been telling me that trees compete with water for turf grass. And so that must mean we just need to cut down all our trees if we want our turf grass to have more water.
00:51:30:19 - 00:51:58:13
Speaker 2
But here's the thing. When it gets really hot and dry, the place where the turf grass does better is in the shade of a tree because it is cooler. It's up to 20 degrees cooler in the shade there around that tree. Now, yes, there's still water competition happening in that soil. But compare a 20 degrees cooler landscape, a lawn with one that is in the full blazing sun during the middle of a drought.
00:51:58:13 - 00:52:25:02
Speaker 2
It's going to bake. And then and if you want to keep your lawn green, you are going to need to apply more water in that instance. So I think that's that's the thing. Or, you know, yes, there's water competition, there's root competition between trees and turf grass, but sometimes they can work together and actually create a more favorable environment for plants.
00:52:25:04 - 00:52:30:06
Speaker 2
But yeah, kill your lawn. I'm cool with that, too.
00:52:30:08 - 00:52:54:20
Speaker 3
I'm on board for that. Yeah, I think I think turf, you know, it's always that now is sometimes the elephant in the room there. I think a lot of times it depends on how you manage that. You know, if you're, if you're irrigating turf, then obviously you're using a lot more water for somebody like me or you that doesn't irrigate and doesn't really care is not as big of a deal.
00:52:54:20 - 00:53:14:12
Speaker 3
But, you know, if you are irrigating, maybe looking at getting rid of some of that nonfunctional turf stuff that you don't really use, it's just there and you water it and you cut it, You don't do anything else with it. If you're not recreating on it, turn that into something else that's not going to require as much, much moisture.
00:53:15:06 - 00:53:18:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:18:05 - 00:53:52:10
Speaker 2
More shade. And you could use shade cloth. You could use trees, you could use shade structures, pergolas, arbors, all that stuff that might help to cool an area and even breaking up your pavement. You know, if you have a solid slab, concrete patio in your backyard that has a lot of radiant heat, and then that is a lot of water that does not make it into the soil underneath of it in the in the before your house, was there any water that fell on that site, you know, that would absorb into the soil?
00:53:52:10 - 00:54:25:05
Speaker 2
Now, we are are dealing with a lot of runoff. We are treating that water as at a nuisance. We are channeling it, concentrating it and getting it out off of our property. But if you break up some of that pavement into like a permeable paver, like a brick paver patio, some type of porous, a paver pavement patio or driveway, if that's allowed, and your check your codes, if it's allowed in your city, that can help recharge some of that soil, water.
00:54:25:07 - 00:54:25:20
Speaker 1
And.
00:54:25:22 - 00:54:53:09
Speaker 2
The other thing I will add when it comes to porous pavers is people like to use the poly sand, which locks it in and it creates an impermeable surface. So if your goal is permeable surface and then you build your patio and you use poly sand, all that water's just running right off. So use regular sand. Anyway, that's my alley sand soapbox.
00:54:53:09 - 00:54:55:10
Speaker 2
People love it, but often
00:54:55:10 - 00:55:28:08
Speaker 3
So another thing, you know, speaking of water moving off surfaces, you know, water collection. One thing I did include in that survey because I think a lot about West, you're not allowed necessarily to to collect water. But here in Illinois we can see rain barrels and things like that where you can collect that water off of those off your roof and things like that, and then use that to to water plants and necessarily not necessarily use it on crops you're going to eat because you don't know what the animals have been doing on your roof and what's going into that rain barrel and what you're putting on
00:55:28:08 - 00:55:49:09
Speaker 3
there. But your ornamental plants, you could water with that. And again, you're retaining that that that water on your property and survey going off into the storm drain. And that could be a backup or your primary watering to just kind of pets. Now you want to use a.
00:55:49:11 - 00:56:24:10
Speaker 2
There is so much poop on our roofs people would not if if people knew how many things pooped on their roofs, they would not use that water on their edible crops. Yeah, I, I think people will maybe be asked this one. Great water use not permitted in Illinois, Illinois. Basically what they do is they point to the Universal Plumbing Code, which does not allow for greywater use and says that's the rule.
00:56:24:12 - 00:56:47:24
Speaker 2
Unless your local ordinances circumvent that rule. I don't think it's necessarily a strongly one. But you cannot do that in Illinois using greywater unless your local laws say you can. So check your local laws and ordinances.
00:56:47:24 - 00:57:05:16
Speaker 3
so the other one we we haven't mentioned is just the act of watering itself. So making sure, you know, the leaves aren't taking up the water. It's there. It's so making sure when you are watering your water to the roots, the part of the plant is actually going to use it. And, you know, if you're getting it on those leaves, no, that's a good way to spread disease.
00:57:05:16 - 00:57:38:17
Speaker 3
And I mean, I'm as guilty as anybody. I use a sprinkler sometimes, too, out of the vegetable garden just because it would take forever to tie water by hand, you know, drip irrigation or something like that. Directing it at the roots watering are, you know, in the evening or evening or early in the morning, probably early in the morning when you're looking at disease watering in the middle of the day when it's really hot and that's going to be evaporating, especially if using something like a sprinkler, a lot of that that water is only going to make it to the ground.
00:57:38:19 - 00:57:42:01
Speaker 3
It's going to start evaporating before it hits the ground
00:57:42:01 - 00:57:59:09
Speaker 2
it that is number two when I see an irrigation system on. So number one, when I see an irrigation system on in the middle of a rainstorm, number two is when it's on and it's 100 degrees out 20 mile per hour winds. Yes. All that water's gone before it even hits the ground.
00:57:59:09 - 00:58:02:16
Speaker 2
Hey, you know, what we could do is drip irrigation.
00:58:02:18 - 00:58:19:08
Speaker 2
That is more of an efficient use of playing that water to the roots of the plant. So really more of I would say most people use that in a vegetable garden, though, but you can use it in landscape plantings and I showed you how to do it. Can you? It's it's not scary.
00:58:19:10 - 00:58:33:05
Speaker 3
Or soaker hoses you know you don't want have to to say deal with but set up in the drip irrigation system soaker hoses are pretty simple you just snake it around where you want to call today.
00:58:33:07 - 00:58:34:03
Speaker 2
That's right.
00:58:34:05 - 00:58:35:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:58:35:18 - 00:58:43:12
Speaker 2
And reduce a lot of water loss by just using dripper soaker hose system and just apply it to the soil
00:58:43:12 - 00:58:48:03
Speaker 3
Now that we have a new water line and we have good water pressure, you can probably use up your houses at our house.
00:58:48:14 - 00:58:49:11
Speaker 1
yes.
00:58:49:13 - 00:58:50:24
Speaker 2
Just all soaker hoses.
00:58:50:24 - 00:59:17:24
Speaker 3
one more thing I could think of. You know, if we do get in a drought situation, we're looking at water restrictions, prioritizing particular plants. If we if we do have to limit watering that we're there, we're able to do so of your high priority, your high value plants, your trees and shrubs especially mature once they've got sure they can take some dryness, but there's a limit to anything.
00:59:18:01 - 00:59:42:10
Speaker 3
So if we do get a situation or we do have looking at water restriction, you can water focusing on your trees and shrubs. This tree is are providing shade. They're also very expensive to remove and in replacement takes a very long time to do. That's kind of your medium priority would be your other perennials. Yeah. Maybe your fruit or vegetable garden.
00:59:42:12 - 01:00:05:05
Speaker 3
And then if you have really young turf, it's still not quite established, even though I probably would put that in the lower priority of your annual flowers, things that are going to replacing every year anyway, your turf. Yeah, it dies. It's going to be a pain, but that's a heck of a lot cheaper to replace turf than a large mature tree.
01:00:05:07 - 01:00:34:16
Speaker 2
And our our cool season turf have a dormancy mechanism to survive drought in Illinois. Really, when we need to start worrying about when that plant that grass plant dies is going to be. Once we get to about a month of no rain and hot temperatures, that's when you know, we risk that dormant cool season grass, that crown, that growing point just drying out and dying.
01:00:34:18 - 01:00:55:18
Speaker 2
So there are kind of rescue irrigation recommendations. So if we've gone through a month, no rain summer weather and if you are worried about your lawn, remember you can so a lawn in a year takes you 25 years to grow a 25 year old oak tree.
01:00:55:18 - 01:00:56:22
Speaker 1
So just.
01:00:56:24 - 01:01:28:02
Speaker 2
Perspective, but you can irrigate a lawn, you can apply a half to a quarter inch of water every what is it, every 4 to 2 weeks to keep that crown of that grass plant alive and that's not to make the grass green. It's just to hydrate the crown and keep it from prevent it from desiccated and dying.
01:01:28:04 - 01:01:31:23
Speaker 3
But if it's been that dry, that that's a concerned you mean you.
01:01:32:01 - 01:01:39:08
Speaker 2
Probably have water restrictions, you can't do that. So yes, that's probably going to be a problem.
01:01:39:08 - 01:01:56:20
Speaker 2
moral of the story, put that mulch down, keep it thick, keep it and just mulch, mulch, mulch. And I think, you know, can I wonder in the survey why mulch wasn't listed? Is it there's not as many trees in the in the southwest.
01:01:56:20 - 01:02:07:17
Speaker 2
I that's what I thought. I mean there can be a lot of trees but in some of those areas, but for most of that tree cover, you know, it might be hard to come by.
01:02:07:17 - 01:02:26:20
Speaker 2
Well, that was a lot of great information about some water saving products. Good, bad. Well, you heard what we had to say. And then some water saving tips, things that we can do in our landscapes and in our gardens to save us a little bit of water. And you never know when that drought is going to hit here in Illinois.
01:02:26:20 - 01:02:36:15
Speaker 2
So it's an important topic, even if we just kayaked in to our office because five inches of rain just fell on us that the previous day.
01:02:36:15 - 01:02:50:09
Speaker 2
Well, the Good Growing podcast is a production of University of Illinois extension, edited this week by me Kristin Roth a special thank you can thank you for hanging out today talking about water water saving tips and some of these things out there.
01:02:50:11 - 01:03:01:17
Speaker 2
Maybe good, maybe not A lot of times just kind of yeah sort of a wash. They sort of by what they do, they degrade and, you know, they're short lived.
01:03:01:19 - 01:03:05:22
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. Thank you. And hopefully nobody will ever need to use any of this stuff.
01:03:05:24 - 01:03:06:07
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:03:06:10 - 01:03:12:17
Speaker 3
Don't I don't think that's going to be the case, unfortunately. But when you need to, you know, you can come back to.
01:03:12:17 - 01:03:14:01
Speaker 1
Later than.
01:03:14:03 - 01:03:16:23
Speaker 3
And let's do this again next week.
01:03:17:12 - 01:03:36:11
Speaker 2
we shall do this again next week. This summer is wrapping up. my goodness. Can I can't believe it. This, this doesn't seem possible, but we are getting close to the fall season. So, yeah, we have we still have a lot more gardening to do, more gardening topics to talk about. And so looking forward to next week's show.
01:03:36:11 - 01:03:44:15
Speaker 2
So listeners, thank you for doing what you do best and that is listening. Or if you're watching us on YouTube watching and as always, keep on growing.
01:03:57:02 - 01:03:59:19
Speaker 2
Did I miss setup?
01:03:59:21 - 01:04:01:16
Speaker 1
I can't.
01:04:01:18 - 01:04:02:19
Speaker 3
I don't think so. This year.